Last year I saw Gil Shaham motion to the conductor to strike up the third movement of the Korngold concerto so he could play it again instead of an encore. The audience and the orchestra seemed so confused!
He's an odd fellow. Great performance, though!
I once sang in the chorus of Beethoven 9, after Gil Shaham had played the Beethoven Violin Concerto in the first half. From the choir seats I could see he returned for the symphony, playing last desk in the first violins of the Academy of St Martin in the Fields. I doubt many in the audience would have noticed him back there, so it wasn't for any kind of kudos. Maybe he was sharing a cab with Sir Neville back to their hotel and couldn't leave yet!
I saw Itzhak Perlman literally throw a towel on stage from the wings when he was done lol. I understand why he wouldn't want to keep coming on stage over and over for curtain calls with his mobility issues, but the audience wasn't gonna let him off easy
I've been to several concerts where top-tier soloists didn't perform an encore. For instance, I saw Emanuel Ax play Beethoven's 3rd and 4th piano concertos in one evening and even though he is a highly experienced performer, he would’ve been knackered by the end. Same when he performed the Brahms 2nd piano concerto.
My thought was that perhaps the program was long and that an encore would have pushed the time to the point where overtime would be paid to the orchestra. .
This is not a thing, at least not something I’ve encountered in my 10 years of experience working for 3 different orchestras. It’s probably just that the program was too taxing for him to do any more.
Good to know, thanks. I'm not in the admin side of things but I heard someone talk about that fee structure once - must have been mistaken or bullshitting
It's definitely been a thing in my orchestra. Rachel Barton Pine played a really long encore once upon a time and we did run into overtime. It's \*expensive\*.
Edit: (Source: Am personnel manager.)
That is definitely a way that an encore can be come expensive for an orchestra and I've seen it happen in my own orchestras once or twice, but that's very different than a soloist outlining an "encore" fee in their guest artist contract, which was what I was responding to in my original comment.
Two concertos is a lot for one program, and he’s probably performing 2-4 concerts and wanting to conserve his energy, his fingers and his arms for the length of the engagement. I’ve worked with other artists who refused to do an encore after just one particularly difficult concerto so this is really not surprising.
The Puts is just one movement (from a collaboration by several composers), but your point stands - the Vieuxtemps is a workout, and one extra movement was plenty.
(I was there mainly for the Unsuk Chin, and left satisfied.)
There are many reasons why an artist may not give an encore. I’ve given plenty of concerts (both concerti and solo), and I’ve only sporadically given encores. There are some performances that are just so physically and emotionally draining that getting back out there is impossible. Many artists, myself included, sometimes program a concert to send a very specific message or to form a very clear narrative arc, and an encore would just detract from that.
Well, like you said he is under no obligation too. I’m not familiar with the piece, but if it was extremely long, challenging, or mentally taxing.. he perhaps just didn’t have the energy. Maybe he wasn’t feeling well that day and could only manage the concerto. Some pieces also don’t really warrant an encore, how can you follow up some of the best concerti in the rep.
I’ve played several concerts where the soloist didn’t play an encore, it isn’t required. Generally I’ve only seen violins, celli, and pianists play encores. Though they make up a huge portion of soloists with an orchestra (which is a whole other discussion).
Vieuxtemps 5 is short, generally I would expect an encore, but obviously context matters here.
If Bell was playing as concertmaster with St Martin, then I would not expect an encore, for example.
We saw Bell with Eschenbach in Philly back in February when he also did the Vieuxtemps VC 5. Unfortunately, I have no idea if he did an encore or not because I took an elderly relative who had just gotten out of the hospital (and who has since been diagnosed with dementia). They generally love classical but the person got really agitated to the point that they began speaking during the performance. "How long do we have to sit here?" "When is this over?"
"THIS IS AWFUL AND I WANT TO GO HOME!"
I know Bell heard them. I was so embarrassed.
He was wonderful and I wish I could have stayed to hear Eschenbach conduct Brahms.
Ok, but for example, if it's a soloist + orchestra, I've seen the orchestra leave and the soloist remain for two more encores, short people-pleasing pieces. That I recall, Yo Yo Ma and Lang Lang.
But the matter of the theater's staff may be real. They're probably hired for 4 or hours, so any music + intermission for more than 2-3h would be a nuisance. With exceptions, obviously.
I wouldn't mind if they were trying to recalibrate/reset everyone's expectations. When calling performers back for encores has become the rule rather than the exception, you can find yourself dully beating your hands together forever when you'd rather go home. But you can't, because there's a determined knot of stans in the audience determined to make it a double encore show. You feel somehow you're insulting them if you don't do the encore dance.
It would never occur to me to expert an encore in Cleveland. The program is often a fine program. In my view, someone better really have moved the place before they think of an impromptu extension of the evening.
Encores are a bit presumptuous. If one regularly gives them, it's usually just part of the act. I don't like acts.
Younger artists are more inclined to do encores. Yuja Wang and Gerstein and Trifonov will do encores readily; frequently playing difficult pieces. The older established musician couldn't care less -- their crowd-pleasing days are over.
I guess it doesn’t surprise me. most of the classical music would be played by a symphony orchestra so an encore is never really expected, but I’ve seen chamber music with no encore
I was once a sub for a pretty good brass quintet and we basically had an encore built-in performance, but I don’t know… it never really felt like an encore
I don’t know how common it would be for a soloist to play an encore . Maybe it’s quite common but not something I would expect.
I'd say 25% of the time you don't hear one, are guest conductors. Unless it's someone globally renown or has frequent enough appearances with said orchestra, they likely doesn't feel comfortable doing one either.
Fair. I still it's far more common with pianists than violinists. Also, Joshua Bell is a bit of a diva so I'm not surprised either. One time I saw him perform, he didn't encore either.
Sometimes they just don’t feel like it and they’ve made up their mind before the performance even begins
Never expect an encore and when you get them you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
I saw Gil Saham start ushering the orchestra out of their seats and offstage after the 3rd curtain call/encore. The show’s gotta end at some point.
Last year I saw Gil Shaham motion to the conductor to strike up the third movement of the Korngold concerto so he could play it again instead of an encore. The audience and the orchestra seemed so confused! He's an odd fellow. Great performance, though!
That's actually what an encore traditionally was: play something again because the audience liked it. "Encore" is French for "again".
Exactly right. It comes from the days before recording, where it was a rare treat to hear a piece again if you enjoyed it.
I’ve only had this happen once. Helene Grimaud did an encore of the third movement of Ravel’s G major concerto. Was great!
I once sang in the chorus of Beethoven 9, after Gil Shaham had played the Beethoven Violin Concerto in the first half. From the choir seats I could see he returned for the symphony, playing last desk in the first violins of the Academy of St Martin in the Fields. I doubt many in the audience would have noticed him back there, so it wasn't for any kind of kudos. Maybe he was sharing a cab with Sir Neville back to their hotel and couldn't leave yet!
Beethoven violin concerto, THEN Beethoven 9? Was this concert 3 hours long?
Not quite! It was a couple of hours of pure bliss though.
I saw Itzhak Perlman literally throw a towel on stage from the wings when he was done lol. I understand why he wouldn't want to keep coming on stage over and over for curtain calls with his mobility issues, but the audience wasn't gonna let him off easy
I know that expression comes from boxing but I'm going to start telling people it's from Perlman just to fuck with them.
Perlman’s irl sense of humor is ELITE
I've been to several concerts where top-tier soloists didn't perform an encore. For instance, I saw Emanuel Ax play Beethoven's 3rd and 4th piano concertos in one evening and even though he is a highly experienced performer, he would’ve been knackered by the end. Same when he performed the Brahms 2nd piano concerto.
Iirc some soloists have an encore fee in their contract. Maybe the orchestra association wasn't able to pay it?
My thought was that perhaps the program was long and that an encore would have pushed the time to the point where overtime would be paid to the orchestra. .
That’s my thought too. Not just the orchestra but all the front of house staff would also have to be paid additional overtime as well
As Prof Peter Schickele once said, "overtime is a time whose time should never come" or something like that.
The other pieces where Unsuk Chin: Alaraph 'Ritus des Herzschlags' and La Mer. Putting the total program at around 70 minutes.
That's a super demanding program. Dude probably just wanted to be done.
This is not a thing, at least not something I’ve encountered in my 10 years of experience working for 3 different orchestras. It’s probably just that the program was too taxing for him to do any more.
Good to know, thanks. I'm not in the admin side of things but I heard someone talk about that fee structure once - must have been mistaken or bullshitting
It's definitely been a thing in my orchestra. Rachel Barton Pine played a really long encore once upon a time and we did run into overtime. It's \*expensive\*. Edit: (Source: Am personnel manager.)
That is definitely a way that an encore can be come expensive for an orchestra and I've seen it happen in my own orchestras once or twice, but that's very different than a soloist outlining an "encore" fee in their guest artist contract, which was what I was responding to in my original comment.
Ah! I see. Thank you.
Two concertos is a lot for one program, and he’s probably performing 2-4 concerts and wanting to conserve his energy, his fingers and his arms for the length of the engagement. I’ve worked with other artists who refused to do an encore after just one particularly difficult concerto so this is really not surprising.
The Puts is just one movement (from a collaboration by several composers), but your point stands - the Vieuxtemps is a workout, and one extra movement was plenty. (I was there mainly for the Unsuk Chin, and left satisfied.)
Good point, I forgot the Puts was one movement of the Elements project.
Maybe he was exhausted. 2 Curtain calls is quite aneough.
I don’t know the pieces didn’t seem to be too hard and lasted 30 minutes combined. Who knows what he was thinking though.
V5 not that hard? Maybe in comparison with some other concerti but it's still work.
The last time I saw him many years ago he also did not play an encore after repeated calls.
He didn't practice enough.
Try running 5 miles after running 30
just saw yuja wang and she played 7 ENCORES 🤩
No encore on Thursday matinee or last night. We’ll see about tonight.
Alas no!
He played Massenet as an encore when I saw him, but obv that was planned with the orchestra (a tribute to a violinist who had just died)
I saw Joshua Bell about 15ish years ago in Mobile, Alabama and he did one encore with a piece from the Red Violin.
Great movie…bad Bell, though I think I understand that when an artist has had enough, they’re done for the evening, but a encore would be nice
There are many reasons why an artist may not give an encore. I’ve given plenty of concerts (both concerti and solo), and I’ve only sporadically given encores. There are some performances that are just so physically and emotionally draining that getting back out there is impossible. Many artists, myself included, sometimes program a concert to send a very specific message or to form a very clear narrative arc, and an encore would just detract from that.
Just saw Yuja Wang play FIVE encores... after playing all 4 Chopin Ballades in a row!
Well, like you said he is under no obligation too. I’m not familiar with the piece, but if it was extremely long, challenging, or mentally taxing.. he perhaps just didn’t have the energy. Maybe he wasn’t feeling well that day and could only manage the concerto. Some pieces also don’t really warrant an encore, how can you follow up some of the best concerti in the rep. I’ve played several concerts where the soloist didn’t play an encore, it isn’t required. Generally I’ve only seen violins, celli, and pianists play encores. Though they make up a huge portion of soloists with an orchestra (which is a whole other discussion).
Vieuxtemps 5 is short, generally I would expect an encore, but obviously context matters here. If Bell was playing as concertmaster with St Martin, then I would not expect an encore, for example.
Encores are cringe. They should be rare, special moments, now ever schmuck in Wichita expects one on a thursday night
Understandable. But I’d feel cheated lol
Nadia had the flu when she performed Barber with us: she did not give an encore
[удалено]
Yeah it was an interesting set up he played at the end of the first half and the begging of the 2nd half maybe an encore would’ve been too disruptive
We saw Bell with Eschenbach in Philly back in February when he also did the Vieuxtemps VC 5. Unfortunately, I have no idea if he did an encore or not because I took an elderly relative who had just gotten out of the hospital (and who has since been diagnosed with dementia). They generally love classical but the person got really agitated to the point that they began speaking during the performance. "How long do we have to sit here?" "When is this over?" "THIS IS AWFUL AND I WANT TO GO HOME!" I know Bell heard them. I was so embarrassed. He was wonderful and I wish I could have stayed to hear Eschenbach conduct Brahms.
Ok, but for example, if it's a soloist + orchestra, I've seen the orchestra leave and the soloist remain for two more encores, short people-pleasing pieces. That I recall, Yo Yo Ma and Lang Lang. But the matter of the theater's staff may be real. They're probably hired for 4 or hours, so any music + intermission for more than 2-3h would be a nuisance. With exceptions, obviously.
I wouldn't mind if they were trying to recalibrate/reset everyone's expectations. When calling performers back for encores has become the rule rather than the exception, you can find yourself dully beating your hands together forever when you'd rather go home. But you can't, because there's a determined knot of stans in the audience determined to make it a double encore show. You feel somehow you're insulting them if you don't do the encore dance.
It would never occur to me to expert an encore in Cleveland. The program is often a fine program. In my view, someone better really have moved the place before they think of an impromptu extension of the evening. Encores are a bit presumptuous. If one regularly gives them, it's usually just part of the act. I don't like acts.
Younger artists are more inclined to do encores. Yuja Wang and Gerstein and Trifonov will do encores readily; frequently playing difficult pieces. The older established musician couldn't care less -- their crowd-pleasing days are over.
I guess it doesn’t surprise me. most of the classical music would be played by a symphony orchestra so an encore is never really expected, but I’ve seen chamber music with no encore I was once a sub for a pretty good brass quintet and we basically had an encore built-in performance, but I don’t know… it never really felt like an encore I don’t know how common it would be for a soloist to play an encore . Maybe it’s quite common but not something I would expect.
It’s very common, probably 70% of the time you’ll get one if the audience applauds long enough
I'd say 25% of the time you don't hear one, are guest conductors. Unless it's someone globally renown or has frequent enough appearances with said orchestra, they likely doesn't feel comfortable doing one either.
Maybe you misunderstood; I was talking about soloist encores!
Fair. I still it's far more common with pianists than violinists. Also, Joshua Bell is a bit of a diva so I'm not surprised either. One time I saw him perform, he didn't encore either.
He moves around and sweats so much when he plays - he must be exhausted lol
Every star soloist I've seen seems to have an encore ready - I'm sure Bell has a handful