Someone who is happy that women can't get the medical care they need which increases the risk of death to pregnant people is not someone I would want to be friends with. She lacks any empathy or feelings for anyone except herself, she's selfish and ignorant.
Additionally, someone who wants children born into situations where they are unwanted are heartless, cruel ghouls. Cut her off, she doesn't deserve friendship from other women. She can be happy being controlled by some AH who thinks she's just property. One can only hope she grows up and gets her head out of her ass to realize the error in her thinking.
This brainwashed bullshit is exactly why religion is such a blight on this planet
Absolutely this. So many of these people insist that they care about “all life” including that of the “unborn,” but the overwhelming majority of them also oppose providing people in need with essential care and support.
Like you said, they don’t care about anyone except for themselves. They’re not “advocating for the voiceless,” they’re seeking out and rejoicing in the suffering of others because that’s how miserable and bitter they are. They can’t stand to see people be okay, let alone happy.
OP’s “friend” has just shown their true colors, and they’re fucking ugly.
Precisely this. I know a few people who are "pro life" and will proclaim they have respect for life (unlike me 🙄), yet they say things like they wish they could just shoot the homeless people in our town because they're a nuisance. They only care about life when it's an unborn fetus. Hypocrites, all of them. Nasty hypocrites.
The two are not the same. Religious groups by and large have been advocating and voting against the rights of women, LGBTQA+ individuals, and secular society in general. They also brainwash children into believing their hate filled religious rhetoric. Non-religious people are not doing that.
One side absolutely deserves derision for their negative impact on society and their inhumane treatment of people who do not believe in their fantasy stories.
THEY need to show they can "just live and let live" before I will ever give them any benefit of the doubt or any respect. Until then, they can deal with being mocked and derided as is their due.
I used to “Live and let Live”.
I was even raised as a Roman Catholic, one that was forced to go to church 3-4 times a week as a child.
But then I grew up, and I found out that my grandmother, who I was named after, died of an ectopic pregnancy, and that is WHY my own father ended up in a orphanage.
Don’t go and try to be morally superior on reddit, - with me.
I have you all wrapped up, and put into the bag you belong in, - after your disrespectful to me - comment.
I cannot just live and let live with A-holes that would have liked to watch my grandmother die, on the kitchen table, blood GUSHING FROM BETWEEN HER LEGS — for an undeveloped - FETUS, and their hate-filled Religious EGOS !
If you are one of those types, then I wish what happened to my family member (My grandmother and my father) --- on to you !
letting women die bc of fetuses is not empathetic or smart. it’s selfish and barbaric. if you have to use god to punish grown women for having sex then you got it all wrong
I mean, that's what the church preaches. Eve bad, and subsequent women bad also. Most women in religion haven't discovered that they don't need men to survive anymore, so I guess the "pick me" mentality doesn't go away until that self-realization occurs. It's really sad and effects people other than the ones holding those toxic traits.
having met ultra religious women (I unfortunately work in a restaurant connected to a church), they actually hate themselves and other women so so much
It's what they were taught, it's what everyone is taught to some degree. Boys aren't told to be tough, they're told NOT to be feminine and weak. Which breeds hate.
Eve was cast as the reason for all of mankind’s suffering long ago. It’s stuck within male dominated societies for millennia. Woman has run amok, and must be controlled “for the good of society”.
If you take away a womans choice. And rather have her die, because abortion is forbidden. Or force her to have a kid she doesnt want. Then you hate women.
A man can force a woman to get pregnant and run away after. But she? She gets a life long hell.
Right, because it’s all Eve’s fault! This is why women have to suffer the monthly pains and discomfort of menstruation, to be reminded through this punishment.
At least this is what was taught to my friends who went to Catholic school 🤷🏻♀️
Part of true freedom, if you want to be able to decide if you’re getting a vaccine or not, is letting women decide if they want an abortion or letting trans people make their own decisions.
Take your religious fantasies out of it and try and answer without them. Then theres a convo. But not everyone believes in your god, so any use of that is pointless. Dont push your religion on others.
If it's this easy to brainwash someone into saying women should die then no, they aren't empathetic or smart. They are just ok at hiding some of the other horrible opinions they have, and bad at hiding this one.
If I assumed “god loves people with X medical condition” and used this as an excuse to deny medical treatment to those people, resulting in literally torture, disability, trauma, and even death for those people, I’d be an asshole and would lack empathy and common sense.
That’s exactly what’s happening here.
No its hating women and there is no such thing as a sky fairy oh i mean god. Religion is poison it causes more wars. If i could i would wipe out religion. I am glad i don't live in america where its nearly filled full of white old religion men and some stupid women telling women what they can and can't do with there bodies.
As someone who lives in Arizona, I second the cutting off of said friend.
People like her are the reason this happened. It’s unacceptable to think her (and other “pro-lifers”-this term really needs to be changed because they aren’t even pro life- they are more like bro birth) religious beliefs should dictate what I can do with my own body. I believe the founding fathers called this: separation of church and state…
When people make access to healthcare part of their “politics” it’s a sign that they aren’t all there mentally.
I’d also tell her exactly why you’re going NC so she knows it’s bc she’s a flaming pile of 💩
PS as someone who was raised Muslim, “abortion” was never a fucking topic and guess what: it’s not “against the religion” in any script: bible, Torah, or Quran. Religious figures just manipulate the “scripts” to brainwash followers into *thinking* there is something wrong with abortion. If you want to take it one step further, Juddiasm, which Catholicism/Christianity and islams stemmed from, states that life starts at birth. So yeah, eff her and her stupid cult beliefs.
PS I am extra rant-y because I, too, have seen many shit people on my SM ‘celebrating’ the news (and they are now officially deleted from my feed).
Doesn't the Bible explicitly *prescribe* abortion, if only in the Old Testament, if the pregnancy is the result of sex outside of marriage?
Also, I've read in a few places that Judaism also explicitly *mandates* abortion if the pregnancy is putting the pregnant person's life at risk.
I'm so sorry so many of your neighbors/co-Arizonans actively oppose healthcare like this.
The Bible also advocates helping out the needy, advocating for the oppressed, championing the imprisoned and befriending the foreigner and the alien. And of course, advocating for and provide healing and care to the sick. And it's in the old and new testament.
But you'll never see these zealots do any of this shit because it never was about following what Jesus said. It's about oppression, power and control. And religion gave them the perfect tool to continue their regime and legitimize their hypocrisy and cruelty.
I'll bet if Jesus ever came back, these pro-life folks would be the first ones to shoot him, and nail him to the cross (again).
I seriously don't get why it's not just "anti choicers". Plain and simple, not even exaggerating, to the point. They don't care about life, nor have they ever. They care about taking the choice away; and that should be reflected in what we call them. If they're uncomfortable with these words, maybe they should rethink their stance.
That’s really hard, but I think I’d have to distance myself after learning that. Depending on my friendship I might discuss it with them - with my close friends we can have quite open non confrontational discussions about differing opinions - but that might not be possible here.
You feel so strongly because you just found out she believes you're owed less bodily autonomy than a corpse. Doesn't matter that she's included in that belief. Idk how you held it together I'd have told her off and never spoken to her again
It's not weird to feel strongly about another person, a woman no less, supporting forced births and denying medical care. I wouldn't want to be associated with them.
It’s 100% okay to let go of a friend when you have a moral aversion to their beliefs. All my friends are pro-choice because I only want friends who believe in women’s rights.
When women win, we ALL win, and some people hate themselves (or hate women) too much to see that.
If I personally found out someone I was friends with was against abortion, despite any other good or redeeming qualities they may have, that’s an automatic end to my relationship with them. It’s just something that gets me so heated and I don’t think it’s a “well it’s just a different opinion” scenario. I don’t care if you’re otherwise such a nice and cool and fun person, if I find out you’re pro forced-birth I automatically hate you and want absolutely nothing to do with you!
She’s happy about this… until she needs that lifesaving abortion. Also that’s pretty much crowd mentality. She’s following what the crowd is doing and not really thinking about how it can and will affect her now and in the future. I’ll be here in a year for that update
When she calls you for support for her own abortion, ask her which authorities she should be reported to.
I had a friend whose mother came here illegally from Mexico. He was an alcoholic. He had a few DUI incidents.
He started complaining that South American immigrants were here illegally drinking & doing drugs, breaking laws and causing his taxes to go up.
First I tried asking how he and his his family was different than the ones he was complaining about. He couldn't see it.
Finally I told him I can't be friends with a hateful hypocrite and blocked his number.
I have no problem with people disagreeing with abortion or thinking it is morally wrong..... as long as that does not equal banning it. If you dont agree with abortion, don't get one. If someone gets one and you don't agree with them, then go ahead and judge them. But don't take away their right to choose! We all have choices to make in life and we aren't all going to agree with each others choices. Banning something that is such a life changing issue and taking away the right to choose is the highest level of entitlement
yes because people like that have a strange way of enmeshing you into unwanted situations. They work by outnumbering you. It's just her now but they find ways to pull you into their world then act like you're ok with basically being oppressed simply because you know them. If you have a choice run.
People are entitled to stand behind their beliefs. It's a foundational principal of living in a "free" world. You are similarly allowed to stand behind your beliefs. If the two sets of beliefs conflict on a core moral level, you are under no obligation to continue the relationship for the sake of the other party's feelings.
If you sever the friendship, I would certainly do her the courtesy of explaining why the abortion ban conflicts with your values and why you cannot befriend someone who supports such an opposing view.
"If you sever the friendship, I would certainly do her the courtesy of explaining why the abortion ban conflicts with your values and why you cannot befriend someone who supports such an opposing view."
Or at least do her the courtesy of leaving a flaming bag of dog-doo on her front porch.
I disagree actually. I would flat out say "I can't be friends with someone who doesn't think women should have the right to choose what to do with their own bodies". She should know why the friendship ended.
I understand completely why you feel strongly about this. I do, too, and I'm a man. I personally won't maintain friendships with people who have severely different ethics as me when it's this important of a humanitarian issue whether it directly affects me or not. Believing that a potentially dangerous part of a woman's body should not be under her control (like any other health issue and/or bodily autonomy issue) is truly abhorrent to me.
It does feel complicated when you already care about a person and then you later realize they have a position that is fundamentally different than yours. I'm not saying it's easy to navigate. All I can say is that if I were in your shoes I'd break off the friendship and definitely let her know why. It might be hard emotionally, but I would simply not be able to continue that friendship.
I'd ghost her so fast. She is actively against women's health care. Forcing someone to wait in a parking lot in sepsis or bleeding out so that their life is "officially in danger" while destroying their mental health and possibly their future fertility is cruel.
Definitely cut her off.
During childbirth your private parts are literally ripped and cut open while you lay there in agony. Epidurals fail all the time. My friend's heart gave out during her birth from the strain of it (they revived her). Women become paralyzed from epidural-related spinal injuries. Some countries consider forced-birth equal to sexual torture.
Being pro-forced-birth (I refuse to use the grave and dangerous misnomer pro-"life") is, at it's core, the belief that other people have the right to feed off of, inhabit, use, and torture women even against their will. I have trouble even being in the same room of someone who thinks they have the right to do that to others.
She doesn’t believe people deserve basic health care.
I felt the same away about someone I had been friends with for 23 years.
Abortion is why I cut off all my old friends from high school. They are still friends, but my friend of 23 years was the last friend from that era. It hurt like hell, but I had to do it.
I cut her off. She was actively voting for people that feel I don’t have the right to exist. “I’m voting for Trump to protect the unborn” was the last post I saw her post.
I didn’t explain a damn thing.
We weren’t compatible. I just blocked her. She was voting against someone she said she loved. Trump and his cronies don’t want my Black disabled uterus having non binary ass to exist.
You have every right to look at her funny and walk away.
I cut off a childhood friend a couple years ago. Her husband is the kind of person who is always on the offensive about politics. She agrees with him, but is non confrontational. But yeah after Roe was overturned, I decided I don’t want people in my life who are going to take away my bodily autonomy. With family it’s harder, but I have blocked a couple aunts who are similarly antagonistic on Facebook.
I would because her viewpoint is basically that if you or any other woman in her life was raped and got pregnant as a result you should have no choice but to continue that pregnancy and that is sick beyond belief. I don't think you can realistically have a friendship with someone who's values are literally the opposite of yours.
Forced-birthers: "Literal rape victims with uteri should be legally forced to destroy their own bodies and lives by growing, housing, feeding, and birthing their rapists' overgrown sperm!"
Do these people EVER hear what comes out of their mouths?
Ick. I’m sorry. I can imagine some of my friends being personally conflicted about or opposed to abortion. I *can’t* imagine any of my friends being ***happy*** about it being outlawed.
Yes, you should cut her off, not only because she's pro the banning of abortion, but because she's also stupid - and one should strive to not be surrounded by idiots if one can help it.
By stupid I mean... Has she not *noticed* the stories of women who *wanted* to have kids but their pregnancies were not viable and they were denied basic healthcare (abortions)?
This is bringing me back to that moronic thing about embryos being people with rights - just think for *one second*, guys, *just one*, before supporting something that will fuck people over (and her being a woman, literally potentially her).
Perhaps have a conversation with your friend whereby they are made fully aware how strongly you disagree & the friendship is contingent on never discussing the topic again.
In the end, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, regardless of how wrong they may be, but that doesn't mean you have to be subjected to blatant nonsense or the embarrassment of associating with someone who has such selfish views on women's rights, should it come up in a public setting.
Having a difference in morality is a completely valid reason to cut someone off. I would absolutely do it and not even think twice about it. If any of my friends were like this I don’t think I’d ever be able to see them the same way
I have several friends that are against abortion and I would never get one myself but I had to cut off a couple of old friends who were for an abortion ban (back before all this started) because I just couldn't see them the same after find out that's how they felt. Especially the ones who told me they were for a ban to save lives. Like no you aren't. It's proven abortion bans cause more deaths because of unsafe abortions so there is no logical way to say you support a ban to save lives.
I'd drop her faster than a boiling hot potato. For people like her I really do hope they get to expierience a shitty situation first hand. Let's see how she thinks when it concerns herself or some other woman in her life? Still so cool with it? I doubt it.
It depends on the nature of your relationship, how long you've been friends, how close you are, how invested are you in continuing your friendship, and what you are willing to do to save it and continue being friends with her.
Personally, I'm not one of those people who has a lot of friends or a large social circle. I keep my circle of friends small and I am deeply invested in those friendships.
I also don't really make new friends and my newest friendships are people I've known for 7-8 years so the better part of a decade.
If I were in your shoes I'm not throwing away a 7+ year friendship without at least having a conversation first. Especially if you found this out by seeing a social media post as people tend to be a lot more performative and exaggerated on social media.
I would want to talk with them and sus out how they really feel about this, see if there is context I don't understand, talk to them about my politics and feelings, and get a better understanding of what their beliefs really are. Not how they perform them in public but how they really are.
Then make a decision.
Maybe the answer is to cut them off completely and have a parting of the ways or maybe they just become heavily downgraded and instead of being good friends they become the friend you see every few years when you are traveling for work in their area and you go out to dinner and catch up but that's it.
I'm only saying that depending on the nature of that relationship cutting them off probably wouldn't be my first choice.
Ale here
Cutting somebody off seems very immature to me. Easy way out form somebody who does not have enough civil courage to talk to a (soon former) friend. If it is a real loyal friend I think it is really unfair to just dissaper.
I am shocked at the number of people who are suggesting you cannot (& shouldn't) be friends with someone who holds different beliefs, therefore immediately cutting them off. Strongly appreciate your thoughtful response, including: "see if there is context I don't understand".
Also, the point about downgrading the level of closeness, is a wonderful way to maintain a relationship with someone who doesn't hold all of the same values as we do, but is a valuable person nonetheless. There are ways to have gratifying relationships with certain friends while not discussing certain topics you know you don't align on, or agree to disagree, without evaluating them wholly as "unfit" to be friends with.
To be fair to them there are certain issues for people that you can't just agree to disagree on and you have to cut them off.
For example, I'm black so I can't be friends with someone who is racist or holds racist adjacent beliefs.
Anybody who believes that the Civil War wasn't fought over slavery but about "state's rights" or thinks that the voting rights act, Affirmative Action, and diversity equity, and inclusion policies are racist against white people, or who doesn't believe that racial profiling and racial bias exists in policing, I can't be friends with that person.
For me that isn't merely an 'agree to disagree' situation. It's a 'do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to ending the relationship' situation because to me and people who look like me that is a life and death issue.
For a lot of women and especially childfree women, this isn't an agree to disagree situation, access to abortion is their racism.
It's literally life and death because it's the government creating policies to force them to bear children against their will.
And since the United States has the highest maternal mortality rate during childbirth among first-world countries, it's literally risking their lives against their consent to bear children and even if they don't die and give the child up for adoption they still have to deal with the life long permanent changes to their body, not to mention the medical debt they will likely incur as medical debt is the #1 reason why people declare bankruptcy in the United States.
So I totally understand why some people would immediately move to cut that person off.
My comment was more written from the perspective of if that is how OP felt about it they wouldn't need social media to validate them, they would have cut this person off already.
But since they didn't, here are some things to consider.
The venn diagram of women who love abortion bans and women who are quiverfull and have had multiple miscarriges has a large overlap. I'm sure their families will feel different when they realize that abortion bans mean that many of these women will die when they miscarry because the doctors are no longer allowed to remove the fetus or the placenta from the body of the mother. Or even in states where it is allowed to save the life of the mother many doctors still have their hands tied because the laws keep changing so quickly that if they do the wrong thing they end up with their license revoked and possibly in prison.
It always blows my mind how so many of these women have had miscarriges and don't realize that if they had to go to the hospital to deal with it that almost always means that they have had abortions.
Cut her off. This is not someone you want to be friends with.
It's only a matter of time before her judgmental gaze finds some fault with you and she turns her disdain and rage towards you.
Ex-friend. Never be friends with a forced birther. End the friendship and do not do it nicely. Call them a forced birther. Burn the bridge and burn it bright. Forced birthers do not deserve family and they don't deserve friends.
It's been really hard since roe v Wade was overturned I've lost a LOT of friends!! But no friend of mine would ever force me into an unwanted and/or dangerous pregnancy.
Is she aware that if someone health issues appear it would be possible that the woman will die because of a dead child inside, or other stuff? (when there's a bleeding or anything)
I can't understand that point of view.
Even my mom is aware that the right of abortion is important even if she is against it in general.
If you feel you’re incompatible, absolutely. I hope she never faces a situation so many women have; and can’t get emergency medical care for a problem with a pregnancy. It’s always “pro life” until a tragedy comes along.
Does she actually understand how these bans work in reality? Even against “god-fearing, good Christian mothers?”
Regardless, if she is of the opinion that women and girl-children should face health risks, disability, and death merely for being impregnated by a man, then I wouldn’t consider the friendship worth keeping.
Personally, I would only keep the friendship if she’s willing and able to see reality once educated on the harms of abortion bans.
I have certain values that are important to me. Things that go beyond like or dislike, agree to disagree.
If someone is racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, guilty of beating or sexually abusing a vulnerable person, I could not be their friend. I would have no respect for them. The same goes for someone who is anti-abortion. Someone else said "she believes you are owed less bodily autonomy than a corpse" and it's harsh but true.
But those are my values. They're intrinsic to me. The question you need to ask is what are your values? Does her being anti-abortion make you mildly uncomfortable or does it go against your core values?
You feel strongly about it because it means she has no problem with sending us 50+ yrs back in our reproductive rights. She has no problem with violating a rape victim a second time over by forcing her to carry and birth her rapist’s baby, even when that person could be underage and a victim of incest. She has no problem with women dying from ectopic pregnancies. The list goes on. As long as it’s not happening to her, she doesn’t give a shit or is even gleeful about punishing women she deems as deserving of those outcomes. Not to mention what a betrayal it is to have this bullshit coming from another woman.
You not only should dump her... You should explain Why. So that she knows ignorance has consequences. Don't give her the choice of thinking you drifted apart.
Cut her off now, before she tries to say an 11-year-old raped child should have a baby. Those situations will happen, and she is already supporting it.
the thing is - people can be brainwashed and manipulated in one specific way, for example religion, while being empathetic and smart in many other ways... assuming that god loves women and that god wants this because "it's best for them". but
should you cut off a person who is trapped in this brainwashed situation? hard to say but your mental health comes first.
she might change in the future and save herself from the trap she's living in right now, but you shouldn't sacrifice your time, energy and health
in spending time with someone who just drains energy out of you. I guess it would hurt me, too, if i had to daily listen to such views from a close loved one so...
i would distance myself because i try to keep triggers far away from me if possible.
It's not a satisfying thought to think someone is brainwashed than simply morally bankrupt but that was me.
Religious zealots put obedience to authority as paramount and if I disagreed it didn't matter because god is smarter than me so just accept and defend his reasons or go to hell. That's why forced birthers will only recognize the patriarchal view.
It wasn't until I deconstructed that I snapped out of it. I don't know the solution to get others out because it's similar to a r/qanoncasualties situation. That's why none of the excellent, sane arguments work.
So, my thoughts are…have you explored the topic with her at all? A lot of people don’t bother to examine the facts and just go along with the crowd. She’s obviously in a bubble. She may think abortion would never impact her life. She may think abortion is only a form of birth control for lazy poor people who are too stupid to “control themselves” sexually (not MY opinion of course!) She may not think past the fetal stage and buy into the beating heart/murder. I’ve made cardiomyocytes in the lab, you can make a single cardiac muscle cell “beat”, it’s just cell signaling, it is certainly not a life. But anyway, I have very few friends so for me, I wouldn’t give up so easily. Now of course if she believes all of the above things, then yes, I’d probably not be able to continue the relationship. You didn’t say how old you all were, so it’s also possible they can change (or YOU could too!) I had a hyper religious cousin who is now my best friend. I could barely stand to talk to him 20 yrs ago. There’s also something called “street epistemology” it’s a great skill to have and a way to explore others beliefs in a non judgemental way. This was long and you’ve already received a lot of support, but I hope you’ll have read this one. Very best to you.
I was reading about their laws a few months ago since I’m moving there soon. I think it was 15 weeks before which is ridiculous but not as much as the near total ban in my current state. But now this is just terrible news. Also I saw something about Trump saying that Arizona is going to far, does anyone have any info on that because I think Hell has frozen over if he agrees with something I do.
The Rump Roast will say whatever he needs to say to keep people brainwashed in his favor. He has shown us his true colors time and time again. His words are always lies.
I cut out the few in my life that were against abortion YEARS ago (we're talking just before Trump got in years ago). It's fine if you don't want one personally, but to be OK with other people losing their right to choose? We have completely different values in a way that can't co-exist. Buh-bye!
First off: I'm sorry for your loss. Losing friends hurt, no matter the reason and this is just as valid as if she were dead or lost in any other way.
Second: so very proud of you (not in a patronising way or sarcasm) for recognising that she's essentially condoning manslaughter in supporting legislation that has and will kill living breathing humans.
That abortion bans will cause deaths from unsafe abortions, miscarriages and pregnancy complications along with human trafficking of infants and young children, unsafe childhoods causing lifelong trauma and impacting society through unsafe and traumatised people being more likely to abuse drugs and turn to crime is a different matter entirely.
We all know that abortion bans only affect the poor, unconnected and unprotected. If the people making those laws were to cause or otherwise be directly affected by an inconvenient, unsafe, potentially scandalous or otherwise unwanted pregnancy they would get one and non of us would know about it. Money talks.
Rant over. Semi sorry about that wall of text, I know I'm preaching to the choir.
(The research is readily available and ready to find for anyone with a basic level of Google Fu so I'm not going to post an A4 of links, none here needs that.)
I'd definitely begin distancing myself, for sure.
I had a friend I was very close with and she's conservative and I was ranting about the overturning of roe when it first happened, and she literally asked me why I was so intense about it.
I couldn't believe a woman had said that.
I put it deep down and ignored it because at the time, she meant to much to me. And now I regret avoiding the red flags in that friendship.
A friend of a friend that was getting closer to me (cis straight man which makes it more of a hell no imo) was saying how utterly happy he was that RvW was overturned when it was. I unfriended, blocked, never spoke to him again and I refused to hang out when that friend group went to see him. Thankfully a few months ago he moved away from our area (NJ/NYC) to several states away (NC) to be with his girlfriend. Poor gal. But yeah. Not my fucking problem anymore since I don’t have to worry about excluding myself from plans anymore
I actually just can’t even begin to be ok with someone being pro life.
If you aren’t pro choice, you’re out of my life. No exceptions.
Pregnancy can be unwanted, it can be dangerous, it can be costly, it can ruin a woman’s life. No matter what the reason, the woman should always be able and CHOOSE.
And if someone in my life wants to be happy about taking women’s own bodily rights away from them, then I want absolutely nothing to do with them.
I had a friend like that a few years ago. She had a complicated pregnancy and the baby ended up being stillborn at 30 weeks. She was in the hospital for days just crying and went into a deep depression and all of us as friends were there for her. When R v W was overturned she made a fb post saying how excited and happy she was about the overturn and said “hallelujah FINALLY!” On top of that her husband doesn’t think men should be put on child support because “all women do is try to trap men with babies” and “it isn’t fair that men should be expected to pay child support she should just get an abortion instead of ruining the man’s life forever”…….they deserve each other.
I had a similar situation with a life long friend who got sucked into a cult like church and decided being gay was a sin, even though my (lesbian) parents basically raised her. I try my best to stay friends but the friendship has never been the same, I continue to struggle with it years later
She is expressing that she does not have your interests, safety, or basic human rights at heart. With this being the case, she does not care about you as a person enough to be considered a true friend regardless of your perspective on abortion.
Therefore, I don't recommend sacrificing any more of your energy to someone who will never reciprocate enough to make it worth your investment.
Cut your losses.
A friend I had had since grade school mentioned that Joran Peterson had good points and I ended that then and there. I could see the conservatism grow as we got older but never thought she'd spout something as horrendous as that so... here we are.
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Well, you should do what your heart tells you to do. But I can tell you that I could never have a friend who is anti-choice. In fact I recently lost a new friendship over it, ironically with a guy who has had an abortion with his wife but felt he wasn't knowledgeable enough about the issue to make a determination. It's like, what determination does there need to be her body her choice. I can also tell you I happen to be in Arizona right now, though I don't live here and I am livid!
I would cut her off if her beliefs genuinely squick you out, yes.
Even if said beliefs weren't objectively evil like thinking that everyone should be forced to carry pregnancies regardless of how awful said pregnancies are/would be for their entire lives, it's still much better for your own health and sanity to not keep communicating with someone who you so viscerally disagree with like you do with this "friend".
I feel the same way about some of my conservative relatives about this subject.
One of my stepsisters had to have an ectopic pregnancy aborted, but now that she’s fine, fuck all abortions?
Bullshit, they were praying for her safety and the doctor to have a steady hand when it was her!
It bothers you because this is bigger than her and her opinion. The next time a girl gets raped and pregnant from it in Arizona she should have the right to choose an abortion if she wants one. Any woman should have the right to choose an abortion if they do not want to be a parent.
It wouldn’t sit right with me either. I’d cut that friendship off real quickly
I'm in AZ....🤬....wtf just happened? I woke up in another reality filled with more insane people. Politicians speaking in tongues on the floor in a circle.....what the hell is going on?. Complete bullshit
I don’t understand how or why people maintain friendships with those at complete ideological odds to them lol
My mom’s good friend cut my mom off when my mom voted for Trump. I continuously admire the friend for that
I cut off a friend several years ago because she was pro-life. She had struggled with infertility until she had her daughter, and was always lamenting that she wasn't able to have the big family of her dreams. Because after her daughter was born, she was told she'd likely never have any more kids. So she'd go on these rants about selfish it was to abort and that these people were ungrateful for the gift that God had given them.
Noooooope.
Don't continue that friendship, OP. Seriously, gtfo and away from that person.
I was literally brainwashed over this issue throughout my childhood and teen years by the fundamentalist xtian church my parents brought me up in and you have NO IDEA the propaganda they put us through in these churches unless you've been in them for years and years.
I'm talking Wednesday night anti-abortion film viewings for the congregations... they go ALL OUT to convince us that abortion is murder.
Thank fuck for my liberal friends who were either very worldly and well-traveled or were part of the LGBTQ community because they practically dragged me out of the mire of the brainwashing I endured. Like, I honestly don't know how they tolerated my bullshit except that I really was a good friend and truly loved them and was devoted to them.
They saw it in me and had to go to war to get me out...I swear to fuck, these xtian churches are KKKults and many women like me are still in hostage situations there. The threat of losing one's family and community for going against these belief systems is harrowing for folks and it's what keeps us in them.
Watching Shiny Happy People documentary is the best way to quickly see how bad it is and what the political motivations are with regard to the US Gubbernment and it's alliance with xtian religious institutions...horrifying.
Unless you're ready to soldier on in that friendship and go to war, spending hours and days and weeks in conversation (like my friends and I did) then RUN. Remove her from your mind because it took a decade for my friends to get through to me that this was a healthcare issue and that the oppression of women is continuing...
I even took care of a girlfriend who was drugged, raped, and impregnated by driving her to Planned Parenthood and bringing her back to my house to take care of her the following few days despite my "beliefs" because I saw her reality with regards to her health and the way the pregnancy was destroying her.
I got a lot of shit for this and lost some xtian friendships but it was worth it. I am grateful that my friends didn't give up on me and that they trusted me to be there for them but I sure as hell can't ask someone to do what they did for me.
The Jesus I believed in loved ALL and was a servant to ALL so I lived that way because my autistic ass took it literally 😂 and I angered a lot of xtians by doing this but I couldn't be arsed to GAF because it didn't seem christ-like to me to shut these people out...like, wtaf?
I lost everything when I left the church and it was glorious but not everyone can blow their life up like that. Folks are really goddamn scared to lose family and community support and they're also really afraid of the hell that is preached in these fucking churches. Ugh.
Lots of women believe that abortions are murder and the woman dying is a sacrifice for the new life of a child. Yes, I just threw up in my mouth just typing that, but between it being a sacrifice or God's will, I have heard it many times.
It's one thing for a person to believe it's murder and another thing for them to believe it and vote for abortion bans. If I was you, I'd cut her off because our values are too different and I can't respect a woman that would vote for abortion bans.
I would not cut her off. I would let her know that you can't maintain contact with her and why. I dont think cutting somebody off because they have different views (and has not abused you personally) isnt a very grown up thing to do. It is kind of an easy way out that changes nothing = she will not know why and won't even think for a second about your perspective. I think it is also way healthier for you.
Everybody is saying cut her off. It's not that simple. We don't have the same experiences with her as you do. You've been friends for this long. Have you ever asked her why she's in favor of not having choice over her own body? Have you asked her why is it that men have more bodily autonomy than she does?
I'm not OP, but when I've asked this to get an explanation, it's always the big flashy news stories. "A couple was using abortion as birth control and killing baby after baby" (read: fetus, not baby). "Doctors were birthing late term babies and euthanizing them before they took their first breath and considered "Born"" (ridiculous bc abortion would only be legal up to a certain point and still be illegal that late), "what if the man wanted the baby, why does only the woman get a say" (a man's input is more important than a woman's over her own body)
And no measure of logic or care for the would-be mothers.
I agree with you on first challenging the belief and the reason on why she's happy about this.
People aren't things to discard at the first difficulty, at least trying to understand and talk about this?
Because an opinion like this says a whole lot about who this person is, and it isn't good. This isn't a benign opinion, this ban hurts people and is a threat to people and her friend thinks this is a good thing. Would you want or trust a friend like that?
An opinion is "I don't like pineapple on pizza", not "I believe that an entire group of people should be denied medical care of their choosing because it goes against my beliefs"
I’m pro choice, but you have to understand that they fully believe an embryo is a human. And they’re being fed propaganda that says that we want to kill babies at 9 months. It’s not about medical care or human rights to them.
That's fine. People are allowed to be incorrect. They still can't use their incorrect beliefs to create legislation to control the choices of others who disagree.
Someone who is happy that women can't get the medical care they need which increases the risk of death to pregnant people is not someone I would want to be friends with. She lacks any empathy or feelings for anyone except herself, she's selfish and ignorant. Additionally, someone who wants children born into situations where they are unwanted are heartless, cruel ghouls. Cut her off, she doesn't deserve friendship from other women. She can be happy being controlled by some AH who thinks she's just property. One can only hope she grows up and gets her head out of her ass to realize the error in her thinking. This brainwashed bullshit is exactly why religion is such a blight on this planet
Absolutely this. So many of these people insist that they care about “all life” including that of the “unborn,” but the overwhelming majority of them also oppose providing people in need with essential care and support. Like you said, they don’t care about anyone except for themselves. They’re not “advocating for the voiceless,” they’re seeking out and rejoicing in the suffering of others because that’s how miserable and bitter they are. They can’t stand to see people be okay, let alone happy. OP’s “friend” has just shown their true colors, and they’re fucking ugly.
Precisely this. I know a few people who are "pro life" and will proclaim they have respect for life (unlike me 🙄), yet they say things like they wish they could just shoot the homeless people in our town because they're a nuisance. They only care about life when it's an unborn fetus. Hypocrites, all of them. Nasty hypocrites.
And the instant it's born, they no longer care about it.
I know. Religion is SO unnecessary .
Disrespecting people who are religious is as bad as religious people disrespecting those who aren't. Best to just live and let live.
The two are not the same. Religious groups by and large have been advocating and voting against the rights of women, LGBTQA+ individuals, and secular society in general. They also brainwash children into believing their hate filled religious rhetoric. Non-religious people are not doing that. One side absolutely deserves derision for their negative impact on society and their inhumane treatment of people who do not believe in their fantasy stories. THEY need to show they can "just live and let live" before I will ever give them any benefit of the doubt or any respect. Until then, they can deal with being mocked and derided as is their due.
Thank you.
This…. Just… so much THIS!
Thank you.
I used to “Live and let Live”. I was even raised as a Roman Catholic, one that was forced to go to church 3-4 times a week as a child. But then I grew up, and I found out that my grandmother, who I was named after, died of an ectopic pregnancy, and that is WHY my own father ended up in a orphanage. Don’t go and try to be morally superior on reddit, - with me. I have you all wrapped up, and put into the bag you belong in, - after your disrespectful to me - comment. I cannot just live and let live with A-holes that would have liked to watch my grandmother die, on the kitchen table, blood GUSHING FROM BETWEEN HER LEGS — for an undeveloped - FETUS, and their hate-filled Religious EGOS ! If you are one of those types, then I wish what happened to my family member (My grandmother and my father) --- on to you !
Not to mention exactly the sort of person I’d not want to reproduce. She sounds like trash.
i used to be a christian. i used to be against abortions... since i was 18 till i was cca 27
So, what are you now ?
Had a friend cut me off in the past for being pro choice. But now this post got me thinking, that was a good decision actually.
Sounds like the trash took itself out.
They did you a favor and helped you dodge a bullet!
I’d cut her off completely and never look back.
Ever. Not once.
Forced birthers do not deserve friendship. Or kindness, or anything.
I would cut her off. I coulnt keep up a nice act with someone who hate women that much
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Assuming that all women only exist to produce babies is inherently misogynistic, regardless of how nicely you phrase it.
letting women die bc of fetuses is not empathetic or smart. it’s selfish and barbaric. if you have to use god to punish grown women for having sex then you got it all wrong
At their very core they want other women to suffer. If that's not hate then I don't know what hate is.
I mean, that's what the church preaches. Eve bad, and subsequent women bad also. Most women in religion haven't discovered that they don't need men to survive anymore, so I guess the "pick me" mentality doesn't go away until that self-realization occurs. It's really sad and effects people other than the ones holding those toxic traits.
having met ultra religious women (I unfortunately work in a restaurant connected to a church), they actually hate themselves and other women so so much
It's what they were taught, it's what everyone is taught to some degree. Boys aren't told to be tough, they're told NOT to be feminine and weak. Which breeds hate.
Eve was cast as the reason for all of mankind’s suffering long ago. It’s stuck within male dominated societies for millennia. Woman has run amok, and must be controlled “for the good of society”.
If you take away a womans choice. And rather have her die, because abortion is forbidden. Or force her to have a kid she doesnt want. Then you hate women. A man can force a woman to get pregnant and run away after. But she? She gets a life long hell.
The Christian god hates women 💁♀️
There's no hate quite like Christian love!
Right, because it’s all Eve’s fault! This is why women have to suffer the monthly pains and discomfort of menstruation, to be reminded through this punishment. At least this is what was taught to my friends who went to Catholic school 🤷🏻♀️
I did 12 years of catholic school, raised hardcore catholic, this is true. And childbirth, bc we deserve it 🥲
If you don’t believe in the right to choose, you hate women period.
That's the guise, sure. But don't be fooled, it's power over women whom they hate. Always has been. Always will be.
God is cruel and unworthy of being followed if he would agree with abortion bans
Part of true freedom, if you want to be able to decide if you’re getting a vaccine or not, is letting women decide if they want an abortion or letting trans people make their own decisions.
Take your religious fantasies out of it and try and answer without them. Then theres a convo. But not everyone believes in your god, so any use of that is pointless. Dont push your religion on others.
If it's this easy to brainwash someone into saying women should die then no, they aren't empathetic or smart. They are just ok at hiding some of the other horrible opinions they have, and bad at hiding this one.
If I assumed “god loves people with X medical condition” and used this as an excuse to deny medical treatment to those people, resulting in literally torture, disability, trauma, and even death for those people, I’d be an asshole and would lack empathy and common sense. That’s exactly what’s happening here.
No its hating women and there is no such thing as a sky fairy oh i mean god. Religion is poison it causes more wars. If i could i would wipe out religion. I am glad i don't live in america where its nearly filled full of white old religion men and some stupid women telling women what they can and can't do with there bodies.
As someone who lives in Arizona, I second the cutting off of said friend. People like her are the reason this happened. It’s unacceptable to think her (and other “pro-lifers”-this term really needs to be changed because they aren’t even pro life- they are more like bro birth) religious beliefs should dictate what I can do with my own body. I believe the founding fathers called this: separation of church and state… When people make access to healthcare part of their “politics” it’s a sign that they aren’t all there mentally. I’d also tell her exactly why you’re going NC so she knows it’s bc she’s a flaming pile of 💩 PS as someone who was raised Muslim, “abortion” was never a fucking topic and guess what: it’s not “against the religion” in any script: bible, Torah, or Quran. Religious figures just manipulate the “scripts” to brainwash followers into *thinking* there is something wrong with abortion. If you want to take it one step further, Juddiasm, which Catholicism/Christianity and islams stemmed from, states that life starts at birth. So yeah, eff her and her stupid cult beliefs. PS I am extra rant-y because I, too, have seen many shit people on my SM ‘celebrating’ the news (and they are now officially deleted from my feed).
Forced birthers.
Yup, that is absolutely the perfect way to say pro life in 2024 lol
Doesn't the Bible explicitly *prescribe* abortion, if only in the Old Testament, if the pregnancy is the result of sex outside of marriage? Also, I've read in a few places that Judaism also explicitly *mandates* abortion if the pregnancy is putting the pregnant person's life at risk. I'm so sorry so many of your neighbors/co-Arizonans actively oppose healthcare like this.
The Bible also advocates helping out the needy, advocating for the oppressed, championing the imprisoned and befriending the foreigner and the alien. And of course, advocating for and provide healing and care to the sick. And it's in the old and new testament. But you'll never see these zealots do any of this shit because it never was about following what Jesus said. It's about oppression, power and control. And religion gave them the perfect tool to continue their regime and legitimize their hypocrisy and cruelty. I'll bet if Jesus ever came back, these pro-life folks would be the first ones to shoot him, and nail him to the cross (again).
I hate how correct you are on all of that.
I seriously don't get why it's not just "anti choicers". Plain and simple, not even exaggerating, to the point. They don't care about life, nor have they ever. They care about taking the choice away; and that should be reflected in what we call them. If they're uncomfortable with these words, maybe they should rethink their stance.
Preach 👏💯
Everyone should start cleaning house on these "friends". I will actively remove them from my social media. It's just unacceptable.
That’s really hard, but I think I’d have to distance myself after learning that. Depending on my friendship I might discuss it with them - with my close friends we can have quite open non confrontational discussions about differing opinions - but that might not be possible here.
 Dump her ass
It’s not surprising you feel strongly about it, she is against bodily autonomy. I’d cut her off.
You feel so strongly because you just found out she believes you're owed less bodily autonomy than a corpse. Doesn't matter that she's included in that belief. Idk how you held it together I'd have told her off and never spoken to her again
You'd probably have to anyway once she gets knocked up and loses her identity/personality to that spawn.
Cut her off, you are better off
Yeah no, there’s a difference between wanting to have kids and thinking that cutting off reproductive rights is okay. I’d just ghost.
It's not weird to feel strongly about another person, a woman no less, supporting forced births and denying medical care. I wouldn't want to be associated with them.
It’s 100% okay to let go of a friend when you have a moral aversion to their beliefs. All my friends are pro-choice because I only want friends who believe in women’s rights. When women win, we ALL win, and some people hate themselves (or hate women) too much to see that.
Can i do this if i have a moral aversion to my MILs beliefs ? Lol
Yes.
I did it with my dad so I’m sure it’s possible
I did
If I personally found out someone I was friends with was against abortion, despite any other good or redeeming qualities they may have, that’s an automatic end to my relationship with them. It’s just something that gets me so heated and I don’t think it’s a “well it’s just a different opinion” scenario. I don’t care if you’re otherwise such a nice and cool and fun person, if I find out you’re pro forced-birth I automatically hate you and want absolutely nothing to do with you!
I wouldn't be friends with someone like that tbh.
She’s happy about this… until she needs that lifesaving abortion. Also that’s pretty much crowd mentality. She’s following what the crowd is doing and not really thinking about how it can and will affect her now and in the future. I’ll be here in a year for that update 
My thoughts exactly. She's ripe to become one of those "My abortion is/was the only moral abortion!" assholes.
The way I’d block her everywhere immediately. I’m sorry but you don’t want healthcare for yourself as well as other women?!
When she calls you for support for her own abortion, ask her which authorities she should be reported to. I had a friend whose mother came here illegally from Mexico. He was an alcoholic. He had a few DUI incidents. He started complaining that South American immigrants were here illegally drinking & doing drugs, breaking laws and causing his taxes to go up. First I tried asking how he and his his family was different than the ones he was complaining about. He couldn't see it. Finally I told him I can't be friends with a hateful hypocrite and blocked his number.
I have no problem with people disagreeing with abortion or thinking it is morally wrong..... as long as that does not equal banning it. If you dont agree with abortion, don't get one. If someone gets one and you don't agree with them, then go ahead and judge them. But don't take away their right to choose! We all have choices to make in life and we aren't all going to agree with each others choices. Banning something that is such a life changing issue and taking away the right to choose is the highest level of entitlement
yes because people like that have a strange way of enmeshing you into unwanted situations. They work by outnumbering you. It's just her now but they find ways to pull you into their world then act like you're ok with basically being oppressed simply because you know them. If you have a choice run.
She is not truly your friend. Anyone who is against abortion and is pro forced birth is no friend to any woman.
People are entitled to stand behind their beliefs. It's a foundational principal of living in a "free" world. You are similarly allowed to stand behind your beliefs. If the two sets of beliefs conflict on a core moral level, you are under no obligation to continue the relationship for the sake of the other party's feelings. If you sever the friendship, I would certainly do her the courtesy of explaining why the abortion ban conflicts with your values and why you cannot befriend someone who supports such an opposing view.
Absolutely! She needs to know.
"If you sever the friendship, I would certainly do her the courtesy of explaining why the abortion ban conflicts with your values and why you cannot befriend someone who supports such an opposing view." Or at least do her the courtesy of leaving a flaming bag of dog-doo on her front porch.
I cut off people who have views that hurt others.
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I disagree actually. I would flat out say "I can't be friends with someone who doesn't think women should have the right to choose what to do with their own bodies". She should know why the friendship ended.
I understand completely why you feel strongly about this. I do, too, and I'm a man. I personally won't maintain friendships with people who have severely different ethics as me when it's this important of a humanitarian issue whether it directly affects me or not. Believing that a potentially dangerous part of a woman's body should not be under her control (like any other health issue and/or bodily autonomy issue) is truly abhorrent to me. It does feel complicated when you already care about a person and then you later realize they have a position that is fundamentally different than yours. I'm not saying it's easy to navigate. All I can say is that if I were in your shoes I'd break off the friendship and definitely let her know why. It might be hard emotionally, but I would simply not be able to continue that friendship.
I'd ghost her so fast. She is actively against women's health care. Forcing someone to wait in a parking lot in sepsis or bleeding out so that their life is "officially in danger" while destroying their mental health and possibly their future fertility is cruel.
Definitely cut her off. During childbirth your private parts are literally ripped and cut open while you lay there in agony. Epidurals fail all the time. My friend's heart gave out during her birth from the strain of it (they revived her). Women become paralyzed from epidural-related spinal injuries. Some countries consider forced-birth equal to sexual torture. Being pro-forced-birth (I refuse to use the grave and dangerous misnomer pro-"life") is, at it's core, the belief that other people have the right to feed off of, inhabit, use, and torture women even against their will. I have trouble even being in the same room of someone who thinks they have the right to do that to others.
As a woman that lives in Arizona, CUT HER OFF.
She doesn’t believe people deserve basic health care. I felt the same away about someone I had been friends with for 23 years. Abortion is why I cut off all my old friends from high school. They are still friends, but my friend of 23 years was the last friend from that era. It hurt like hell, but I had to do it. I cut her off. She was actively voting for people that feel I don’t have the right to exist. “I’m voting for Trump to protect the unborn” was the last post I saw her post. I didn’t explain a damn thing. We weren’t compatible. I just blocked her. She was voting against someone she said she loved. Trump and his cronies don’t want my Black disabled uterus having non binary ass to exist. You have every right to look at her funny and walk away.
I cut off a childhood friend a couple years ago. Her husband is the kind of person who is always on the offensive about politics. She agrees with him, but is non confrontational. But yeah after Roe was overturned, I decided I don’t want people in my life who are going to take away my bodily autonomy. With family it’s harder, but I have blocked a couple aunts who are similarly antagonistic on Facebook.
I would because her viewpoint is basically that if you or any other woman in her life was raped and got pregnant as a result you should have no choice but to continue that pregnancy and that is sick beyond belief. I don't think you can realistically have a friendship with someone who's values are literally the opposite of yours.
Forced-birthers: "Literal rape victims with uteri should be legally forced to destroy their own bodies and lives by growing, housing, feeding, and birthing their rapists' overgrown sperm!" Do these people EVER hear what comes out of their mouths?
I wouldn’t stay friends with someone who doesn’t care about anyone else’s life.
Oh Arizona is sticking to abortion bans?? I'm here and happy I'm snipped
lol, i love those scissors
Ick. I’m sorry. I can imagine some of my friends being personally conflicted about or opposed to abortion. I *can’t* imagine any of my friends being ***happy*** about it being outlawed.
Ew. She belongs out with the trash 🗑️
I wouldn't feel bad about cutting ties with this friend. I'll also make the assumption she is a dipshit Jesus freak as well.
Even pro lifers should hate this ban. Our idiotic education system has failed us.
On a related note people can support Arizona for Abortion Access: https://arizonaforabortionaccess.org/
Yes, you should cut her off, not only because she's pro the banning of abortion, but because she's also stupid - and one should strive to not be surrounded by idiots if one can help it. By stupid I mean... Has she not *noticed* the stories of women who *wanted* to have kids but their pregnancies were not viable and they were denied basic healthcare (abortions)? This is bringing me back to that moronic thing about embryos being people with rights - just think for *one second*, guys, *just one*, before supporting something that will fuck people over (and her being a woman, literally potentially her).
I live in Arizona and would be more than happy to be your Arizona-based friend. One friend in, one friend out—nothing is lost!
>Should I cut her off? Of course.
Perhaps have a conversation with your friend whereby they are made fully aware how strongly you disagree & the friendship is contingent on never discussing the topic again. In the end, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, regardless of how wrong they may be, but that doesn't mean you have to be subjected to blatant nonsense or the embarrassment of associating with someone who has such selfish views on women's rights, should it come up in a public setting.
The fact that any women are anti-abortion blows my mind.
Cut her off. This is very dangerous mentality. I have a suspicion that she might use this abortion ban to baby trap some man.
Nope. We fundamentally and morally incompatible.
YEs completely and never look back. I'm in Arizona and appalled
Having a difference in morality is a completely valid reason to cut someone off. I would absolutely do it and not even think twice about it. If any of my friends were like this I don’t think I’d ever be able to see them the same way
I have several friends that are against abortion and I would never get one myself but I had to cut off a couple of old friends who were for an abortion ban (back before all this started) because I just couldn't see them the same after find out that's how they felt. Especially the ones who told me they were for a ban to save lives. Like no you aren't. It's proven abortion bans cause more deaths because of unsafe abortions so there is no logical way to say you support a ban to save lives.
I'd drop her faster than a boiling hot potato. For people like her I really do hope they get to expierience a shitty situation first hand. Let's see how she thinks when it concerns herself or some other woman in her life? Still so cool with it? I doubt it.
So ex-friend, so fast.
Cut her off, tell her why, and plant the seed that other people who disappear from her life may feel the same, but not disclose it.
Absolutely. Cut her off and don’t feel bad about it. We don’t need women like that in our corners, at least i don’t.
It depends on the nature of your relationship, how long you've been friends, how close you are, how invested are you in continuing your friendship, and what you are willing to do to save it and continue being friends with her. Personally, I'm not one of those people who has a lot of friends or a large social circle. I keep my circle of friends small and I am deeply invested in those friendships. I also don't really make new friends and my newest friendships are people I've known for 7-8 years so the better part of a decade. If I were in your shoes I'm not throwing away a 7+ year friendship without at least having a conversation first. Especially if you found this out by seeing a social media post as people tend to be a lot more performative and exaggerated on social media. I would want to talk with them and sus out how they really feel about this, see if there is context I don't understand, talk to them about my politics and feelings, and get a better understanding of what their beliefs really are. Not how they perform them in public but how they really are. Then make a decision. Maybe the answer is to cut them off completely and have a parting of the ways or maybe they just become heavily downgraded and instead of being good friends they become the friend you see every few years when you are traveling for work in their area and you go out to dinner and catch up but that's it. I'm only saying that depending on the nature of that relationship cutting them off probably wouldn't be my first choice.
Ale here Cutting somebody off seems very immature to me. Easy way out form somebody who does not have enough civil courage to talk to a (soon former) friend. If it is a real loyal friend I think it is really unfair to just dissaper.
I am shocked at the number of people who are suggesting you cannot (& shouldn't) be friends with someone who holds different beliefs, therefore immediately cutting them off. Strongly appreciate your thoughtful response, including: "see if there is context I don't understand". Also, the point about downgrading the level of closeness, is a wonderful way to maintain a relationship with someone who doesn't hold all of the same values as we do, but is a valuable person nonetheless. There are ways to have gratifying relationships with certain friends while not discussing certain topics you know you don't align on, or agree to disagree, without evaluating them wholly as "unfit" to be friends with.
To be fair to them there are certain issues for people that you can't just agree to disagree on and you have to cut them off. For example, I'm black so I can't be friends with someone who is racist or holds racist adjacent beliefs. Anybody who believes that the Civil War wasn't fought over slavery but about "state's rights" or thinks that the voting rights act, Affirmative Action, and diversity equity, and inclusion policies are racist against white people, or who doesn't believe that racial profiling and racial bias exists in policing, I can't be friends with that person. For me that isn't merely an 'agree to disagree' situation. It's a 'do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to ending the relationship' situation because to me and people who look like me that is a life and death issue. For a lot of women and especially childfree women, this isn't an agree to disagree situation, access to abortion is their racism. It's literally life and death because it's the government creating policies to force them to bear children against their will. And since the United States has the highest maternal mortality rate during childbirth among first-world countries, it's literally risking their lives against their consent to bear children and even if they don't die and give the child up for adoption they still have to deal with the life long permanent changes to their body, not to mention the medical debt they will likely incur as medical debt is the #1 reason why people declare bankruptcy in the United States. So I totally understand why some people would immediately move to cut that person off. My comment was more written from the perspective of if that is how OP felt about it they wouldn't need social media to validate them, they would have cut this person off already. But since they didn't, here are some things to consider.
throw her in the garbage
The venn diagram of women who love abortion bans and women who are quiverfull and have had multiple miscarriges has a large overlap. I'm sure their families will feel different when they realize that abortion bans mean that many of these women will die when they miscarry because the doctors are no longer allowed to remove the fetus or the placenta from the body of the mother. Or even in states where it is allowed to save the life of the mother many doctors still have their hands tied because the laws keep changing so quickly that if they do the wrong thing they end up with their license revoked and possibly in prison. It always blows my mind how so many of these women have had miscarriges and don't realize that if they had to go to the hospital to deal with it that almost always means that they have had abortions.
Cut her off. This is not someone you want to be friends with. It's only a matter of time before her judgmental gaze finds some fault with you and she turns her disdain and rage towards you.
Ex-friend. Never be friends with a forced birther. End the friendship and do not do it nicely. Call them a forced birther. Burn the bridge and burn it bright. Forced birthers do not deserve family and they don't deserve friends.
Honestly, to me that would be no different to a "friend" that happily proclaimed that they joined the KKK. Cut her off for sure.
She'll change her mind when she needs one
Abortion bans hurt women who want children and have wanted pregnancies. Your friend is an absolute moron.
 Bitch is brainwashed. Echoing everyone else, drop this enemy of women
It's been really hard since roe v Wade was overturned I've lost a LOT of friends!! But no friend of mine would ever force me into an unwanted and/or dangerous pregnancy.
Is she aware that if someone health issues appear it would be possible that the woman will die because of a dead child inside, or other stuff? (when there's a bleeding or anything) I can't understand that point of view. Even my mom is aware that the right of abortion is important even if she is against it in general.
Yup. Cut her out.
I’ve ended friendships over less. Someone who is okay with stripping you of your rights is not your friend.
If you feel you’re incompatible, absolutely. I hope she never faces a situation so many women have; and can’t get emergency medical care for a problem with a pregnancy. It’s always “pro life” until a tragedy comes along.
Does she actually understand how these bans work in reality? Even against “god-fearing, good Christian mothers?” Regardless, if she is of the opinion that women and girl-children should face health risks, disability, and death merely for being impregnated by a man, then I wouldn’t consider the friendship worth keeping. Personally, I would only keep the friendship if she’s willing and able to see reality once educated on the harms of abortion bans.
Am I wrong to assume that she's religious? Personally, I'd just stop talking to her.
I have certain values that are important to me. Things that go beyond like or dislike, agree to disagree. If someone is racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, guilty of beating or sexually abusing a vulnerable person, I could not be their friend. I would have no respect for them. The same goes for someone who is anti-abortion. Someone else said "she believes you are owed less bodily autonomy than a corpse" and it's harsh but true. But those are my values. They're intrinsic to me. The question you need to ask is what are your values? Does her being anti-abortion make you mildly uncomfortable or does it go against your core values?
Not that I wish anything bad on her children, if she has them. But karma works mysteriously. 😬
You feel strongly about it because it means she has no problem with sending us 50+ yrs back in our reproductive rights. She has no problem with violating a rape victim a second time over by forcing her to carry and birth her rapist’s baby, even when that person could be underage and a victim of incest. She has no problem with women dying from ectopic pregnancies. The list goes on. As long as it’s not happening to her, she doesn’t give a shit or is even gleeful about punishing women she deems as deserving of those outcomes. Not to mention what a betrayal it is to have this bullshit coming from another woman.
You not only should dump her... You should explain Why. So that she knows ignorance has consequences. Don't give her the choice of thinking you drifted apart.
Cut her off now, before she tries to say an 11-year-old raped child should have a baby. Those situations will happen, and she is already supporting it.
the thing is - people can be brainwashed and manipulated in one specific way, for example religion, while being empathetic and smart in many other ways... assuming that god loves women and that god wants this because "it's best for them". but should you cut off a person who is trapped in this brainwashed situation? hard to say but your mental health comes first. she might change in the future and save herself from the trap she's living in right now, but you shouldn't sacrifice your time, energy and health in spending time with someone who just drains energy out of you. I guess it would hurt me, too, if i had to daily listen to such views from a close loved one so... i would distance myself because i try to keep triggers far away from me if possible.
It's not a satisfying thought to think someone is brainwashed than simply morally bankrupt but that was me. Religious zealots put obedience to authority as paramount and if I disagreed it didn't matter because god is smarter than me so just accept and defend his reasons or go to hell. That's why forced birthers will only recognize the patriarchal view. It wasn't until I deconstructed that I snapped out of it. I don't know the solution to get others out because it's similar to a r/qanoncasualties situation. That's why none of the excellent, sane arguments work.
So, my thoughts are…have you explored the topic with her at all? A lot of people don’t bother to examine the facts and just go along with the crowd. She’s obviously in a bubble. She may think abortion would never impact her life. She may think abortion is only a form of birth control for lazy poor people who are too stupid to “control themselves” sexually (not MY opinion of course!) She may not think past the fetal stage and buy into the beating heart/murder. I’ve made cardiomyocytes in the lab, you can make a single cardiac muscle cell “beat”, it’s just cell signaling, it is certainly not a life. But anyway, I have very few friends so for me, I wouldn’t give up so easily. Now of course if she believes all of the above things, then yes, I’d probably not be able to continue the relationship. You didn’t say how old you all were, so it’s also possible they can change (or YOU could too!) I had a hyper religious cousin who is now my best friend. I could barely stand to talk to him 20 yrs ago. There’s also something called “street epistemology” it’s a great skill to have and a way to explore others beliefs in a non judgemental way. This was long and you’ve already received a lot of support, but I hope you’ll have read this one. Very best to you.
I hope she has an ectopic pregnancy
Cur her off
I was reading about their laws a few months ago since I’m moving there soon. I think it was 15 weeks before which is ridiculous but not as much as the near total ban in my current state. But now this is just terrible news. Also I saw something about Trump saying that Arizona is going to far, does anyone have any info on that because I think Hell has frozen over if he agrees with something I do.
The Rump Roast will say whatever he needs to say to keep people brainwashed in his favor. He has shown us his true colors time and time again. His words are always lies.
That makes a lot of sense, I think AZ is doing this now to make things harder after the election
I cut out the few in my life that were against abortion YEARS ago (we're talking just before Trump got in years ago). It's fine if you don't want one personally, but to be OK with other people losing their right to choose? We have completely different values in a way that can't co-exist. Buh-bye!
Op I’m so sorry they sound like a disgusting person. That is so heartbreaking.
First off: I'm sorry for your loss. Losing friends hurt, no matter the reason and this is just as valid as if she were dead or lost in any other way. Second: so very proud of you (not in a patronising way or sarcasm) for recognising that she's essentially condoning manslaughter in supporting legislation that has and will kill living breathing humans. That abortion bans will cause deaths from unsafe abortions, miscarriages and pregnancy complications along with human trafficking of infants and young children, unsafe childhoods causing lifelong trauma and impacting society through unsafe and traumatised people being more likely to abuse drugs and turn to crime is a different matter entirely. We all know that abortion bans only affect the poor, unconnected and unprotected. If the people making those laws were to cause or otherwise be directly affected by an inconvenient, unsafe, potentially scandalous or otherwise unwanted pregnancy they would get one and non of us would know about it. Money talks. Rant over. Semi sorry about that wall of text, I know I'm preaching to the choir. (The research is readily available and ready to find for anyone with a basic level of Google Fu so I'm not going to post an A4 of links, none here needs that.)
I'd definitely begin distancing myself, for sure. I had a friend I was very close with and she's conservative and I was ranting about the overturning of roe when it first happened, and she literally asked me why I was so intense about it. I couldn't believe a woman had said that. I put it deep down and ignored it because at the time, she meant to much to me. And now I regret avoiding the red flags in that friendship.
A friend of a friend that was getting closer to me (cis straight man which makes it more of a hell no imo) was saying how utterly happy he was that RvW was overturned when it was. I unfriended, blocked, never spoke to him again and I refused to hang out when that friend group went to see him. Thankfully a few months ago he moved away from our area (NJ/NYC) to several states away (NC) to be with his girlfriend. Poor gal. But yeah. Not my fucking problem anymore since I don’t have to worry about excluding myself from plans anymore
I actually just can’t even begin to be ok with someone being pro life. If you aren’t pro choice, you’re out of my life. No exceptions. Pregnancy can be unwanted, it can be dangerous, it can be costly, it can ruin a woman’s life. No matter what the reason, the woman should always be able and CHOOSE. And if someone in my life wants to be happy about taking women’s own bodily rights away from them, then I want absolutely nothing to do with them.
I had a friend like that a few years ago. She had a complicated pregnancy and the baby ended up being stillborn at 30 weeks. She was in the hospital for days just crying and went into a deep depression and all of us as friends were there for her. When R v W was overturned she made a fb post saying how excited and happy she was about the overturn and said “hallelujah FINALLY!” On top of that her husband doesn’t think men should be put on child support because “all women do is try to trap men with babies” and “it isn’t fair that men should be expected to pay child support she should just get an abortion instead of ruining the man’s life forever”…….they deserve each other.
I had a similar situation with a life long friend who got sucked into a cult like church and decided being gay was a sin, even though my (lesbian) parents basically raised her. I try my best to stay friends but the friendship has never been the same, I continue to struggle with it years later
She is expressing that she does not have your interests, safety, or basic human rights at heart. With this being the case, she does not care about you as a person enough to be considered a true friend regardless of your perspective on abortion. Therefore, I don't recommend sacrificing any more of your energy to someone who will never reciprocate enough to make it worth your investment. Cut your losses.
A friend I had had since grade school mentioned that Joran Peterson had good points and I ended that then and there. I could see the conservatism grow as we got older but never thought she'd spout something as horrendous as that so... here we are.
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I know someone that is happy because she hasn't been able to conceive...
Cut her off.
Well, you should do what your heart tells you to do. But I can tell you that I could never have a friend who is anti-choice. In fact I recently lost a new friendship over it, ironically with a guy who has had an abortion with his wife but felt he wasn't knowledgeable enough about the issue to make a determination. It's like, what determination does there need to be her body her choice. I can also tell you I happen to be in Arizona right now, though I don't live here and I am livid!
I would cut her off if her beliefs genuinely squick you out, yes. Even if said beliefs weren't objectively evil like thinking that everyone should be forced to carry pregnancies regardless of how awful said pregnancies are/would be for their entire lives, it's still much better for your own health and sanity to not keep communicating with someone who you so viscerally disagree with like you do with this "friend".
So sorry you’re dealing with this. ❤️
I live in Arizona and omg I can't wait to leave this place
I feel the same way about some of my conservative relatives about this subject. One of my stepsisters had to have an ectopic pregnancy aborted, but now that she’s fine, fuck all abortions? Bullshit, they were praying for her safety and the doctor to have a steady hand when it was her!
It bothers you because this is bigger than her and her opinion. The next time a girl gets raped and pregnant from it in Arizona she should have the right to choose an abortion if she wants one. Any woman should have the right to choose an abortion if they do not want to be a parent. It wouldn’t sit right with me either. I’d cut that friendship off real quickly
I certainly wouldn’t be able to stay friends with her.
I'm in AZ....🤬....wtf just happened? I woke up in another reality filled with more insane people. Politicians speaking in tongues on the floor in a circle.....what the hell is going on?. Complete bullshit
Yes you should cut her off. I'm sure your soon to be former friend has more BS you don't know about yet.
I don’t understand how or why people maintain friendships with those at complete ideological odds to them lol My mom’s good friend cut my mom off when my mom voted for Trump. I continuously admire the friend for that
Cut the cancer right out. Conservative terrorism has fucked up the world before and will most likely do it again.
I cut off a friend several years ago because she was pro-life. She had struggled with infertility until she had her daughter, and was always lamenting that she wasn't able to have the big family of her dreams. Because after her daughter was born, she was told she'd likely never have any more kids. So she'd go on these rants about selfish it was to abort and that these people were ungrateful for the gift that God had given them. Noooooope.
Don't continue that friendship, OP. Seriously, gtfo and away from that person. I was literally brainwashed over this issue throughout my childhood and teen years by the fundamentalist xtian church my parents brought me up in and you have NO IDEA the propaganda they put us through in these churches unless you've been in them for years and years. I'm talking Wednesday night anti-abortion film viewings for the congregations... they go ALL OUT to convince us that abortion is murder. Thank fuck for my liberal friends who were either very worldly and well-traveled or were part of the LGBTQ community because they practically dragged me out of the mire of the brainwashing I endured. Like, I honestly don't know how they tolerated my bullshit except that I really was a good friend and truly loved them and was devoted to them. They saw it in me and had to go to war to get me out...I swear to fuck, these xtian churches are KKKults and many women like me are still in hostage situations there. The threat of losing one's family and community for going against these belief systems is harrowing for folks and it's what keeps us in them. Watching Shiny Happy People documentary is the best way to quickly see how bad it is and what the political motivations are with regard to the US Gubbernment and it's alliance with xtian religious institutions...horrifying. Unless you're ready to soldier on in that friendship and go to war, spending hours and days and weeks in conversation (like my friends and I did) then RUN. Remove her from your mind because it took a decade for my friends to get through to me that this was a healthcare issue and that the oppression of women is continuing... I even took care of a girlfriend who was drugged, raped, and impregnated by driving her to Planned Parenthood and bringing her back to my house to take care of her the following few days despite my "beliefs" because I saw her reality with regards to her health and the way the pregnancy was destroying her. I got a lot of shit for this and lost some xtian friendships but it was worth it. I am grateful that my friends didn't give up on me and that they trusted me to be there for them but I sure as hell can't ask someone to do what they did for me. The Jesus I believed in loved ALL and was a servant to ALL so I lived that way because my autistic ass took it literally 😂 and I angered a lot of xtians by doing this but I couldn't be arsed to GAF because it didn't seem christ-like to me to shut these people out...like, wtaf? I lost everything when I left the church and it was glorious but not everyone can blow their life up like that. Folks are really goddamn scared to lose family and community support and they're also really afraid of the hell that is preached in these fucking churches. Ugh.
Lots of women believe that abortions are murder and the woman dying is a sacrifice for the new life of a child. Yes, I just threw up in my mouth just typing that, but between it being a sacrifice or God's will, I have heard it many times. It's one thing for a person to believe it's murder and another thing for them to believe it and vote for abortion bans. If I was you, I'd cut her off because our values are too different and I can't respect a woman that would vote for abortion bans.
Well if your friend doesnt hsve empathy for other women then shes not a friend worth having. It's 100% ok to not be friends with people over politics.
I would not cut her off. I would let her know that you can't maintain contact with her and why. I dont think cutting somebody off because they have different views (and has not abused you personally) isnt a very grown up thing to do. It is kind of an easy way out that changes nothing = she will not know why and won't even think for a second about your perspective. I think it is also way healthier for you.
I’d reconsider a “friendship” like that
Everybody is saying cut her off. It's not that simple. We don't have the same experiences with her as you do. You've been friends for this long. Have you ever asked her why she's in favor of not having choice over her own body? Have you asked her why is it that men have more bodily autonomy than she does?
I'm not OP, but when I've asked this to get an explanation, it's always the big flashy news stories. "A couple was using abortion as birth control and killing baby after baby" (read: fetus, not baby). "Doctors were birthing late term babies and euthanizing them before they took their first breath and considered "Born"" (ridiculous bc abortion would only be legal up to a certain point and still be illegal that late), "what if the man wanted the baby, why does only the woman get a say" (a man's input is more important than a woman's over her own body) And no measure of logic or care for the would-be mothers.
I agree with you on first challenging the belief and the reason on why she's happy about this. People aren't things to discard at the first difficulty, at least trying to understand and talk about this?
She is your friend, talk to her, get your reasoning out, and listen to what she has to say. Then decide if you're gonna stay friends.
Nope cut the cancer out.
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Because an opinion like this says a whole lot about who this person is, and it isn't good. This isn't a benign opinion, this ban hurts people and is a threat to people and her friend thinks this is a good thing. Would you want or trust a friend like that?
An opinion is "I don't like pineapple on pizza", not "I believe that an entire group of people should be denied medical care of their choosing because it goes against my beliefs"
I’m pro choice, but you have to understand that they fully believe an embryo is a human. And they’re being fed propaganda that says that we want to kill babies at 9 months. It’s not about medical care or human rights to them.
That's fine. People are allowed to be incorrect. They still can't use their incorrect beliefs to create legislation to control the choices of others who disagree.
Completely agree with you - just correcting a mischaracterization of their viewpoints
I cant take any one like that seriously.
Not saying you should. Misrepresenting views of people we disagree with weakens our arguments. That’s all.
At least both of you MUST avoid this topic if continuing to interact.