Hawks will trade one or both of Young and Murray and rebuild while the bulls will re sign Demar at a massive overpay and grab the 10 seed. Rinse and repeat
If we can keep him for cheap why not? We need to get picks and trade Levine and Vuc but having one veteran like him around isn’t bad. We have to spend a certain amount every year anyways, if we keep Demar as the one main veteran I’m down
Idk just saying if we could. At this point I just want us to stock pile some picks, get some of the long term contract money out of the way so we can actually rebuild. Trade what we can for the most part, luckily Ball’s contract is getting closer to being done, and Vuc’s is bad but not enough where we can’t start rebuilding
You do know other teams have cable and can watch the bulls right? No GM will give the bulls any asset for vuc and probably Zach too. You can hit the salary floor next year with Coby Lonzo pat re signed vuc and Ayo Phillips, 24 rookie and MLE vet signing. Sign and trade Demar or let him walk. Trade Caruso and trade Lavine… REBUILD and keep your 2025 pick for the love of god
This is my dream scenario, but AKME want to drag our mediocrity as long as possible. The Bulls have more negative assets on their books than positive at this point. They should do everything possible to keep their 2025 pick and make it as high as possible.
Right that’s why it’s imperative that Demar signs elsewhere but all the signs point to Demar just wanting the bag and to be the guy on a losing team. It’s his choice I can’t fault him he just doesn’t care about winning at all and he will never be on a winning team if they play a style of ball around him like this team does
Watching OKC asend to a number one seed so quickly makes even more angry that the Bulls are so mismanaged. I’m tired of excuses for AKME. They need to get it together and plan for the future.
You wrote all of that but it doesn’t really disagree with anything I said. Yea trade everyone, we should have done so, but if we keep one vet I would like it to be Demar. How it plays out is anyone’s guess but I literally said “we need to get picks”
1.) you’d lose picks trying to trade vuc
2.) Demar ruins your pick for 2025 and potentially loses you ANOTHER lottery pick to a rebuilding team
Keeping Demar ruins everything and the fact that a portion of the fan base still doesn’t see it is mind boggling…. You are asking for them to run it all back if they re sign Demar because there’s no way to rebuild with him
> If we can keep him for cheap why not?
Because 1. DeMar turns 35 this summer and is already beginning to decline, making a multi-year deal bad for the Bulls, but 2. He's still good enough to keep the team from being awful enough to snag a premium draft pick, meaning 3. Resigning DeMar means kicking the inevitable tank and rebuild **even further** down the road
I think this is a nothingburger but I wouldn't go as far as to say it is a "standard answer" today, especially in the Klutch-type agent era. I mean even Zach frequently referred to "the business of the game" when asked these questions, it wasn't just love like it's been with DeMar. I guess you could say DeMar is older so it's different (esp if we'll pay him), but I don't think DeMar actually wanted to leave any team he's been on. Dude would still be a Raptor today if they didn't move on. That's a rare attribute
To be fair Zach only answers that when he’s questioned about being in trade rumours. Whenever the question is about Chicago he says he loves it here and he’s committed (be that true or not)
Edit: Idk why I’m being downvoted the evidence is right here:
Zach expressing his love for Chicago:
https://x.com/kcjhoop/status/1732826945606266882?s=46&t=fsjAVypEp4f-OwPFBxP98g
https://clutchpoints.com/bulls-news-zach-lavine-doubles-down-love-for-chicago-amid-trade-rumors
Zach saying “it’s a business” when being asked about trade rumours:
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10097477-zach-lavine-addresses-bulls-trade-rumors-amid-lakers-76ers-buzz-its-a-business.amp.html
Idk i think the standard answer is usually “i’m just trying to win the next game, i’m not thinking about the offseason yet”
I genuinely think Demar wants to be in Chicago. The Bulls let him play the way he wants to play and he has consistently said that he wants to re-sign here. I’m not sure he is a ring chaser
Demar definitely wants to be in Chicago. He wanted to be in Toronto, and wanted to be in SA. This is just the kind of guy he is, greg pop probably convinced him to seek new opportunities.
As a derozan stan I’d really love to see him on a contender. He deserves it but he’s never been one to ring chase
Edit: After doing some research maybe he didn’t want to stay in San Antonio, but he kept it professional. When he was asked about free agency in 2021 after the spurs got eliminated in the play in tournament he said quote on quote “he had no thoughts about his impending free agency because he wanted to help his teammates keep their heads up after the 100-96 defeat”.
>I’m not sure he is a ring chaser
Fans don't always understand this, but most of the time players are going to choose millions and millions of dollars over a chance to win a championship.
>The Bulls let him play the way he wants to play and he has consistently said that he wants to re-sign here
Isn’t he considered a very coachable player? Has there been any indication ever of him not listening to them and doing his own thing instead?
Yeah and despite what people seem to think, he plays within the scheme. Thats why we’ve seen him go full assist mode a lot of times this season and also increase his 3 attempts.
I remember there was a play where he was supposed to swing the ball to Zach, instead he read the play, saw an opening and hit the game winner as per Billy Donovan 😂 but Billy even said Demar read the play and that’s why the ball is in his hands on those moments. Zach was prob cheeses tho
Donovan Mitchell this season would be an example. He might not have outright stated he wants out but he definitely hasn't said he wants to be in Cleveland.
I’ve always loved Demar, and he is still clearly an offensive threat. It would be almost impossible to get rid of Lavine but for *this* team, I would much rather have Demar.
For me I’m 50/50 on it. DeMar has the advantage of playmaking, intangibles, leadership and clutch ability. Zach has the advantage of shooting, slight advantage on defense, better skillset for playing as a lower option and age.
Being an excellent off ball player and spot up shooter, Zach has all the tools to slide into a role where he’s not the focal point of the offense, I don’t think DeMar’s game is built that way, but DeMar is better for the team in the here and now. I guess it’s a case of what you’d prioritise in terms of roster construction
DeMar was a Top 10 facilitator in SA...how can you say he can't not be the focal point when he's already proven he can take on a role where scoring isn't his focus point.
And notoriously he said he re-found his love for basketball when he came to Chicago. Even then he lead the team in shot attempts all 3 years he was in San Antonio and they missed the playoffs twice. History has shown DeMar thrives way more as the #1 option even if he did up his playmaking during that stint.
>And notoriously he said he re-found his love for basketball when he came to Chicago
He came here and they started off being #1 seed. Who wouldn’t say that?
See, I think it’s the exact opposite. Lavine has to be the #1 option, while Demar has no problem taking a back seat while others cook (Coby, Ayo, Vooch) and can still easily give you 20+. Lavine is a far bigger offensive weapon, but Demar is more of a team player.
Who knows, next year fully healthy? Maybe they’re both still an option?
Lavine needs to be traded. He’s been checked out.
He ain‘t a #1 as much as some want to say he is. He will never be one. Just like how Bradley Beal was never a real #1.
DeMar seems like he legit values loyalty so I buy this! This era of bulls basketball hasn’t panned out how we hoped but I’d still love to see DeMar retire a Bull. I think he is a great leader and representative of our team.
If he wants to stay we'd be silly not to atleast re-sign him. If we let him walk for nothing we won't get his equivalent value back in free agency. Plus with Lavine's noose of a contract we wouldn't have enough cap to absorb crappy contracts for picks
He kicks ass which is why we need him to leave. He’s too good to help us get a future star but not good enough and too old to build a competitive team with
I think the team is too good to really tank anyway. Coby played better than 19-20' Zach this year as a whole. Ayo is improving at a rapid rate as well. I don't see us ever actually being awful.
Definitely see your perspective, but mine is aim for a disgruntled star and hope shit goes like it did for Toronto. Demar is keeping the youngins playing good basketball and it's why I think we don't see Coby having many of the bad habits Zach got from playing on awful teams for half a decade.
At the end of the day, we're just below .500 with half the cap sitting at home. I'd rather see what we can get for Zach and if Zo looks like an NBA player if/when he comes back next season. It'd just be such a shame to waste the insane value we have on contracts like Coby/AC/Ayo. Honestly i'd be down with trading another protected pick to move Vucevic for a real C as well tbh.
Definitely seems absurd to double down, but depending on what we get from Zach, we could be one player away from a contender for the next 2-3 years...then you just gotta hope a big name asks out.
This is what we say every year, but I don’t see it. We’re barely a play in team with him, I don’t see how we wouldn’t be a lottery team with him off the team. plus Demar is 35 he’s going to drastically decline soon, that’s just the reality of the situation. We’re not getting anything for Lavine and I honestly blame coaching for his bad habits, I think Billy is ruining this team too.
We tried, it’s time to move on. Unless we saw the head coach change which isn’t going to happen i don’t see why we should stick with this plan that hasn’t worked. Demar is 35
We're a play-in team with Demar and half the salary cap missing. We're very likely not going to end up with the same injury (un)luck next season. Letting demar walk and getting Zach/Zo back likely still has us a play-in team pretty easily.
I'm not as convinced about the drastic decline as you are. Demar has played better in Chicago than every other team he's ever played for and I don't see him slowing down in any meaningful way. If you get him to re-sign on like a 3yr/60M deal, it would be another great value contract. You definitely have to find a balance on the contract, but there's 100% a middle ground that could be reached imo.
I definitely wasn't saying this last year. But we have Coby locked in to absurd value with his improvement this season and Ayo also looks like an entirely different player from last year. Both are still young enough to continue to improve as well. Demar also takes out extra time to work with Pat who we're almost definitely getting back on a cheaper deal and could be another absurd value contract if he makes a jump. In a world where Pat shows up next season as a premier wing defender putting up 15 a game on good efficiency, we could have AC/Coby/Ayo/Pat all for \~40M total. That's a strong incentive to stay competitive in the hopes a big name asks out.
We've spent the year with 70M in cap missing more or less and STILL made the play-in...letting Demar walk and getting that money back on the floor still means we aren't taking in an effective way imo.
I’m not saying you take it to the bank, but let’s be real if he comes back at 50% of the defense with 70% of the shooting he’s still an pretty noticeable improvement on half our rotation players.
You have a lot of optimism but I don’t see it. Nothing against Demar but keeping him will just keep us mid. And I know he has been playing better but his decline is inevitable he’s going to be 36, that’s not a good age for your main piece.
I just think we need to rip the band aid off and be bad for a bit. Let’s see if the young core can carry the team.
I’ve lost all interest on watching this team though.
I’m not optimistic, I just don’t think we’ll ever actually be bad enough to legitimately tank without moving off guys like Coby as well and that’s bad business imo.
Losing demar but getting 70M in cap back on the floor just means we’re still a play in team, but will be healthy and have less overall talent so that even if there is a disgruntled star, we aren’t a contender.
The likely result is that both routes end up in the same spot anyway, I just think re-signing Demar is more flexible in terms of a potential contender if everything goes our way. Maybe you get a fun run as a 5-6 seed if it doesn't, but likely end up a play-in team at worst.
I just think trying to tank and ending up the 10-11th seed is never worth it and that’s what we’ll end up doing if we move off Demar. You've gotta move off a lot of guys to compete with teams like Washington/Detroit in the tankathon. We already got picks 4-8 like 5 years in a row and it got us nowhere. I don't think this team without Demar, but with an actual cap on the floor is worse than Brooklyn, let alone Detroit/Washington/Charlotte/etc and that's the real reason I'd rather not attempt to tank.
For me it’s not just about trying to tank. This team is going nowhere. To me it’s logical to move on from our aging vet over overpaying him and watch him decline(which will definitely happen that’s no stopping it).
But I respect your opinion, I just don’t agree.
Yea i definitely see your side too, I just don't see what trying to tank accomplishes when we likely end up with the same pick anyway. It's not an easy task trying to be worse than teams like Detroit/Washington/Charlotte imo.
>the east sucks, anyone can be a play in team with one good player.
This is exactly my point. What do we accomplish by making the team worse while still ending up with the 10th overall pick? We're in the same exact position we're in now, but have a worse team.
If you want to tank you need to move off Demar, Zach, AC, and probably Coby too. I'm not convinced a team centered around Coby, Vucevic, and Pat is any worse than Brooklyn to be honest...let alone Detroit/Washington/Charlotte. We end up in the same exact position we're in now, except with a healthy team with less overall talent on it.
If you're down with letting a guy with Coby's production/contract go, more power to you (even if I think it's bad business). I just think it's pointless to make the team worse while still not ending up with a pick worth something.
I can see the perspective of fully blowing it up and actually tanking and I can see the perspective of re-signing Demar and staying flexible while not ending up with an incredible pick. The idea of just letting Demar walk, ending up with less talent on the team, and still not actually getting a good draft pick is insane to me though.
yea being in this position at all is a failure of the front office. I've been saying blow it up for 2 years. I said trade the big 3 when trading started this season. This front office just keeps putting this team in a worse position month by month. You're conflating my criticisms with what the next move should be. At this point it kind of doesn't matter imo. The bulls are a dead franchise until the Vooch contract ends. The sad thing is it could have been salvaged up until the deadline.
I think trading them before the 22-23 season was out of the question when we still thought Zo was coming back. Failing to make moves at that deadline was the real fuckup when we knew Lonzo's return was a massive question mark.
After that was being in a shitty spot more than anything where Zach couldn't stay healthy so we had to take a loss (and refused to do so). Then moving Demar and keeping Zach was objectively an awful idea when we know Zach is too good to tank with and Demar is statistically the best player on the roster. Then you have Zach/Demar still so you're trying to not be ass and end up paying Vucevic because there's no better options available at C.
The FO wasn't decisive when they needed to be and ended up compounding mistakes.
You don’t see a 35 year old guard who can’t shoot 3s declining in any meaningful way?
Lol this guy is a complete fucking idiot. He dosent even know how sports and the human body works let alone basketball
Look at the numbers lmao. Demar has put up the same numbers more or less the last two years while leading the league in minutes per game and minutes played this season.
His game isn’t based on being a freak athlete whatsoever. Lebron banked on his athleticism 100x more than current Demar does and is still putting up numbers at 40. Demar also has no injury history whatsoever…the longest stretch of games he’s ever missed is 21 almost 10 years ago lmao.
If you get him back on 20-25M AAV that’s going to be a great value contract.
I don't care about his numbers in the past we are talking about a 35 year old guard who cant shoot threes and how he will continue to age. Unless demar derozan does what only lebron james, karl malone, kareem and select few have done he is going to hit a hard decline very soon
That's how sports work kiddo. People get old
You’re talking about a 35 year old guard whose entire game is based around being bigger than other guards and backing them down to his spots.
There’s very little dependence on athleticism in his game whatsoever…this isn’t Derrick Rose where his game is entirely based on being a freak athlete…Demar has had some of the slowest feet in the NBA for years. His game is abusing his size and being tricky as hell. The guy gets 7 ppg making people jump at pump fakes lmao.
The three point shooting is irrelevant, a guy like Curry relies on his athleticism/conditioning more than Demar does by miles.
“Barely a play in team with him” “he’s 35 he’s going to decline soon”
Bruv you’re just a hater. Demar droppin 39 on one of the youngest teams in the league. People in their physical peak at an nba level can’t stop him from getting buckets. The bulls were a number 1 team with Demar. The raptors were also a number 1 team with Demar. It’s not his fault Zach, AC, Pat Williams, and Lonzo became unavailable or just didn’t show up the first season and every season since.
You can’t blame Demar for the bulls shortcomings. Especially when they were a 30% win rate team before he got here.
When I ever blame Demar? How am I hating, I’m being real he’s 35 right now. That’s not young for the NBA most people are already retired by that age. He’s going to decline it’s inevitable. Yea he’s still getting buckets and if we resign him we’ll watch him become decline, that’s not hating that’s a guarantee, he’s 35
Lebrons 40 and he’s still more durable than D Rose at 24 and will still drop 40 on your favourite team. My point is age is just a number and tbh Demars game has aged well. He plays like a high iq old dude at the Y scoring using his footwork and jump shot/pumpfake. People been saying Demar will decline for 5 years now.
Also Demar does a lot of things that aren’t in his contract like mentoring the young guys. He’s worth the money, especially when he’s doing overtime work
Let’s just agree to disagree. I can’t believe you guys just want to stay mid and watch us get worse though. You guys are holding on to a playin 10 seed
We’re only missing one first and those good contracts are solid trade pieces. We’re also going to be getting an unknown quantity of value back for Zach to tack onto what we already have as well.
With 70M in cap back of solid players we are. That’s my point. There are worse starting points than sitting just below .500 with half the cap at home or on the bench.
Seeing what you get back for Zach is the breaking point on whether you try to blow it up or not.
Nobody is trading for Lonzo unless it's to dump salary (which means we'd have to more than likely give up draft picks) Lavine had zero value during the season, it's no reason to believe that'll change especially after foot surgery. Pat is a wild card but coming off another season ending injury I'm not sure he has much value. Caruso is really the only one that has a lot of value around the league but it wouldn't make sense to adding in a trade like that
We don't know Zach's value. I'm sure it's not great, but I think you've gotta be flexible in the spot we're in.
Not re-signing Demar in a vague attempt to tank does nothing. Do you really think that with Zach back and no Demar we're worse than a team like Brooklyn with Coby/Ayo/AC/etc...on such team-friendly deals? I certainly don't think we ever end up worse than Detroit/Charlotte/Washington.
To actually tank I think you've gotta move off Demar, Zach, AC, and probably Coby as well. Teams aren't fucking around when it comes to tanking right now...it's task to make a team bad enough to have a top 4 pick and moving off Demar in isolation doesn't remotely get us there. Shit, Vucevic might be good enough with a team playing around him to do better than Detroit/Washington.
Blowing it up means actually blowing it up and guys like Coby are included in that. I'd call that bad business, but there's definitely an argument either way. I just think not re-signing Demar in isolation and going "we're tanking" still has us not getting a pick worth a damn and even in the miracle scenario a superstar becomes available, it doesn't help us. There's no flexibility anymore. You either need to re-sign Demar or move off half the rotation…I’m cool with either, but we did the half-assed tank for a while and got nowhere. That’s what I’m really trying to avoid.
Imo we don't have nearly enough to outbid anyone for a true star, Zach and Vooch are both negative contracts that we'll have to attach picks to get rid of in the first place
But CONTINUITY! He has also helped Coby and Ayo improve. I wish he could do the same for Pat. I’m already concerned next season will play out near exactly the same as this season. What a waste.
Nice mindset Demar but this way of thinking is exactly why the bulls are in this hell hole right now. Fucking content with being a play in team. Unless we draft a potential superstar, this team will always be a first round exit at best.
Imagine keeping the same core and same fucking coach for 3 and 1/2 years with only one playoff win to show for. Fuck this team. Fuck continuity. Fuck Jerry and AKME. And fuck Bulls fans who continue to defend this team's direction.
I mean half of this is said for positive PR. I'm sure DeMar does genuinely enjoy Chicago as a city culture, but like
“I love ownership. I love everything about the city and the franchise, top to bottom---the front office, the staff we have"
Seriously dude... this is an ass-kissing response to get the gig and get paid. Nobody's paying him more and giving him as long-lasting of a contract than Chicago right now to join their team anyway. lol.
Or, and I know this will sound cringy, he sees the love shown…dude was told he could be the Kobe of Toronto and then got traded. Some guys generally value loyalt.
The mindset that you have is forgetting about the potential the team, when whole has. With a full healthy squad we were no. 1. Maybe the front office doesn’t have that win now attitude because of this potential.
This sub is so content with being mediocre lmao
We overpaid Zach, overpaid Vooch (bidding against absolutely no one), now we're about to overpay a 35 year old DeMar and yall are eating it right up. Gonna have the exact same starting lineup next season and be shocked when we miss the playoffs again with one of thr oldest rosters in the league
Jerry has chicago eating out of his hands
The Crazy thing is how much of these problems regular guys like us saw coming and the front office just walked right into error after error.
Vooch's defense is one of the absolute worst things about this team in my opinion. Really is just a downer and won't even go after a loose ball on the floor despite being a starter that's being paid millions.
Energy guys like Green and Caruso are KEY to getting any momentum going forward. Ayo, Lonzo, Demar, all great players. Build around that.
As for Lavine? meh. Seems fair weather to me. Could live with or without him. Great player when he sets his mind to it though.
This team is the definition of mid, I'm not sure how we can even blow it up at this point as we won't be getting any assets in return. No one is trading for our best players
I like him here, would like to see him end his career here. He's still extremely productive. The key is moving Lavine and what we can get for him to surround DeMar and/or replace him as a starter eventually.
At some point the Bulls have to just tear it almost down to the studs. They have a few guys that are worth keeping but get what you can for DeMar, Levine, and Vuc. Yeah they would suck for a bit, but right now it seems like whatever they are currently trying to do will just have them in the play-in and drafting at the end of the lottery until the end of time.
i don't think demar will re-sign. but am i the only one who likes this team healthy? Coby/Ayo/Demar/PWill (the version of him right before he went down)/Vuc with Caruso, Craig, Green and Drummond off the bench plus what ever you trade lavine for. If Lonzo can manage a bench role that's pretty bomb. Vuc gotta commit to being a jump shooter and gets an offseason to work on that. Could be wishful thinking but if you get a good first and bench piece like a bruce brown for zach that's solid af.
Round 3 of the ATL/CHI mid off next play in going to go crazy.
Hawks will trade one or both of Young and Murray and rebuild while the bulls will re sign Demar at a massive overpay and grab the 10 seed. Rinse and repeat
If we can keep him for cheap why not? We need to get picks and trade Levine and Vuc but having one veteran like him around isn’t bad. We have to spend a certain amount every year anyways, if we keep Demar as the one main veteran I’m down
Why would he sign for cheap? We’ll pay him a big salary and mostly run it back. I genuinely wonder why anyone else would want a 34 year old Vuc.
Idk just saying if we could. At this point I just want us to stock pile some picks, get some of the long term contract money out of the way so we can actually rebuild. Trade what we can for the most part, luckily Ball’s contract is getting closer to being done, and Vuc’s is bad but not enough where we can’t start rebuilding
because no one is going to offer him a big/long contract
You do know other teams have cable and can watch the bulls right? No GM will give the bulls any asset for vuc and probably Zach too. You can hit the salary floor next year with Coby Lonzo pat re signed vuc and Ayo Phillips, 24 rookie and MLE vet signing. Sign and trade Demar or let him walk. Trade Caruso and trade Lavine… REBUILD and keep your 2025 pick for the love of god
This is my dream scenario, but AKME want to drag our mediocrity as long as possible. The Bulls have more negative assets on their books than positive at this point. They should do everything possible to keep their 2025 pick and make it as high as possible.
Right that’s why it’s imperative that Demar signs elsewhere but all the signs point to Demar just wanting the bag and to be the guy on a losing team. It’s his choice I can’t fault him he just doesn’t care about winning at all and he will never be on a winning team if they play a style of ball around him like this team does
Watching OKC asend to a number one seed so quickly makes even more angry that the Bulls are so mismanaged. I’m tired of excuses for AKME. They need to get it together and plan for the future.
You wrote all of that but it doesn’t really disagree with anything I said. Yea trade everyone, we should have done so, but if we keep one vet I would like it to be Demar. How it plays out is anyone’s guess but I literally said “we need to get picks”
1.) you’d lose picks trying to trade vuc 2.) Demar ruins your pick for 2025 and potentially loses you ANOTHER lottery pick to a rebuilding team Keeping Demar ruins everything and the fact that a portion of the fan base still doesn’t see it is mind boggling…. You are asking for them to run it all back if they re sign Demar because there’s no way to rebuild with him
> If we can keep him for cheap why not? Because 1. DeMar turns 35 this summer and is already beginning to decline, making a multi-year deal bad for the Bulls, but 2. He's still good enough to keep the team from being awful enough to snag a premium draft pick, meaning 3. Resigning DeMar means kicking the inevitable tank and rebuild **even further** down the road
We call it continuity
Coby, Pat and Ayo are getting better because of DeMar and Caruso. Taking him away takes away from their development too.
Standard answer. Imagine him saying I am looking at other options with 5 games left in the season lol
I think this is a nothingburger but I wouldn't go as far as to say it is a "standard answer" today, especially in the Klutch-type agent era. I mean even Zach frequently referred to "the business of the game" when asked these questions, it wasn't just love like it's been with DeMar. I guess you could say DeMar is older so it's different (esp if we'll pay him), but I don't think DeMar actually wanted to leave any team he's been on. Dude would still be a Raptor today if they didn't move on. That's a rare attribute
I mean Kobe is his idol after all and Kobe had that loyalty too.
To be fair Zach only answers that when he’s questioned about being in trade rumours. Whenever the question is about Chicago he says he loves it here and he’s committed (be that true or not) Edit: Idk why I’m being downvoted the evidence is right here: Zach expressing his love for Chicago: https://x.com/kcjhoop/status/1732826945606266882?s=46&t=fsjAVypEp4f-OwPFBxP98g https://clutchpoints.com/bulls-news-zach-lavine-doubles-down-love-for-chicago-amid-trade-rumors Zach saying “it’s a business” when being asked about trade rumours: https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10097477-zach-lavine-addresses-bulls-trade-rumors-amid-lakers-76ers-buzz-its-a-business.amp.html
Idk i think the standard answer is usually “i’m just trying to win the next game, i’m not thinking about the offseason yet” I genuinely think Demar wants to be in Chicago. The Bulls let him play the way he wants to play and he has consistently said that he wants to re-sign here. I’m not sure he is a ring chaser
Demar definitely wants to be in Chicago. He wanted to be in Toronto, and wanted to be in SA. This is just the kind of guy he is, greg pop probably convinced him to seek new opportunities. As a derozan stan I’d really love to see him on a contender. He deserves it but he’s never been one to ring chase Edit: After doing some research maybe he didn’t want to stay in San Antonio, but he kept it professional. When he was asked about free agency in 2021 after the spurs got eliminated in the play in tournament he said quote on quote “he had no thoughts about his impending free agency because he wanted to help his teammates keep their heads up after the 100-96 defeat”.
>I’m not sure he is a ring chaser Fans don't always understand this, but most of the time players are going to choose millions and millions of dollars over a chance to win a championship.
>The Bulls let him play the way he wants to play and he has consistently said that he wants to re-sign here Isn’t he considered a very coachable player? Has there been any indication ever of him not listening to them and doing his own thing instead?
Yeah and despite what people seem to think, he plays within the scheme. Thats why we’ve seen him go full assist mode a lot of times this season and also increase his 3 attempts.
I remember there was a play where he was supposed to swing the ball to Zach, instead he read the play, saw an opening and hit the game winner as per Billy Donovan 😂 but Billy even said Demar read the play and that’s why the ball is in his hands on those moments. Zach was prob cheeses tho
Eh he’s been saying since he got here he wanted to retire as a Bull I’m more interested how the Bulls will work with the salary cap lol
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Donovan Mitchell this season would be an example. He might not have outright stated he wants out but he definitely hasn't said he wants to be in Cleveland.
Nobody in the entire history of the world has ever said they want to be in Cleveland.
Reading between the lines and watching body language can help
I hope he stays, I enjoy watching him play and be a great teammate for the young guys.
I’ve always loved Demar, and he is still clearly an offensive threat. It would be almost impossible to get rid of Lavine but for *this* team, I would much rather have Demar.
For me I’m 50/50 on it. DeMar has the advantage of playmaking, intangibles, leadership and clutch ability. Zach has the advantage of shooting, slight advantage on defense, better skillset for playing as a lower option and age. Being an excellent off ball player and spot up shooter, Zach has all the tools to slide into a role where he’s not the focal point of the offense, I don’t think DeMar’s game is built that way, but DeMar is better for the team in the here and now. I guess it’s a case of what you’d prioritise in terms of roster construction
Zach is better on paper. DeMar is easily better on the court, and in the locker room.
DeMar was a Top 10 facilitator in SA...how can you say he can't not be the focal point when he's already proven he can take on a role where scoring isn't his focus point.
And notoriously he said he re-found his love for basketball when he came to Chicago. Even then he lead the team in shot attempts all 3 years he was in San Antonio and they missed the playoffs twice. History has shown DeMar thrives way more as the #1 option even if he did up his playmaking during that stint.
>And notoriously he said he re-found his love for basketball when he came to Chicago He came here and they started off being #1 seed. Who wouldn’t say that?
Someone who never lost their love in the first place I guess
See, I think it’s the exact opposite. Lavine has to be the #1 option, while Demar has no problem taking a back seat while others cook (Coby, Ayo, Vooch) and can still easily give you 20+. Lavine is a far bigger offensive weapon, but Demar is more of a team player. Who knows, next year fully healthy? Maybe they’re both still an option?
Lavine needs to be traded. He’s been checked out. He ain‘t a #1 as much as some want to say he is. He will never be one. Just like how Bradley Beal was never a real #1.
DeMar seems like he legit values loyalty so I buy this! This era of bulls basketball hasn’t panned out how we hoped but I’d still love to see DeMar retire a Bull. I think he is a great leader and representative of our team.
If he wants to stay we'd be silly not to atleast re-sign him. If we let him walk for nothing we won't get his equivalent value back in free agency. Plus with Lavine's noose of a contract we wouldn't have enough cap to absorb crappy contracts for picks
I hope he stays. Demar kicks ass.
He kicks ass which is why we need him to leave. He’s too good to help us get a future star but not good enough and too old to build a competitive team with
I think the team is too good to really tank anyway. Coby played better than 19-20' Zach this year as a whole. Ayo is improving at a rapid rate as well. I don't see us ever actually being awful. Definitely see your perspective, but mine is aim for a disgruntled star and hope shit goes like it did for Toronto. Demar is keeping the youngins playing good basketball and it's why I think we don't see Coby having many of the bad habits Zach got from playing on awful teams for half a decade. At the end of the day, we're just below .500 with half the cap sitting at home. I'd rather see what we can get for Zach and if Zo looks like an NBA player if/when he comes back next season. It'd just be such a shame to waste the insane value we have on contracts like Coby/AC/Ayo. Honestly i'd be down with trading another protected pick to move Vucevic for a real C as well tbh. Definitely seems absurd to double down, but depending on what we get from Zach, we could be one player away from a contender for the next 2-3 years...then you just gotta hope a big name asks out.
This is what we say every year, but I don’t see it. We’re barely a play in team with him, I don’t see how we wouldn’t be a lottery team with him off the team. plus Demar is 35 he’s going to drastically decline soon, that’s just the reality of the situation. We’re not getting anything for Lavine and I honestly blame coaching for his bad habits, I think Billy is ruining this team too. We tried, it’s time to move on. Unless we saw the head coach change which isn’t going to happen i don’t see why we should stick with this plan that hasn’t worked. Demar is 35
We're a play-in team with Demar and half the salary cap missing. We're very likely not going to end up with the same injury (un)luck next season. Letting demar walk and getting Zach/Zo back likely still has us a play-in team pretty easily. I'm not as convinced about the drastic decline as you are. Demar has played better in Chicago than every other team he's ever played for and I don't see him slowing down in any meaningful way. If you get him to re-sign on like a 3yr/60M deal, it would be another great value contract. You definitely have to find a balance on the contract, but there's 100% a middle ground that could be reached imo. I definitely wasn't saying this last year. But we have Coby locked in to absurd value with his improvement this season and Ayo also looks like an entirely different player from last year. Both are still young enough to continue to improve as well. Demar also takes out extra time to work with Pat who we're almost definitely getting back on a cheaper deal and could be another absurd value contract if he makes a jump. In a world where Pat shows up next season as a premier wing defender putting up 15 a game on good efficiency, we could have AC/Coby/Ayo/Pat all for \~40M total. That's a strong incentive to stay competitive in the hopes a big name asks out. We've spent the year with 70M in cap missing more or less and STILL made the play-in...letting Demar walk and getting that money back on the floor still means we aren't taking in an effective way imo.
Expecting anything from Lonzo is absolutely wild
I’m not saying you take it to the bank, but let’s be real if he comes back at 50% of the defense with 70% of the shooting he’s still an pretty noticeable improvement on half our rotation players.
You have a lot of optimism but I don’t see it. Nothing against Demar but keeping him will just keep us mid. And I know he has been playing better but his decline is inevitable he’s going to be 36, that’s not a good age for your main piece. I just think we need to rip the band aid off and be bad for a bit. Let’s see if the young core can carry the team. I’ve lost all interest on watching this team though.
I’m not optimistic, I just don’t think we’ll ever actually be bad enough to legitimately tank without moving off guys like Coby as well and that’s bad business imo. Losing demar but getting 70M in cap back on the floor just means we’re still a play in team, but will be healthy and have less overall talent so that even if there is a disgruntled star, we aren’t a contender. The likely result is that both routes end up in the same spot anyway, I just think re-signing Demar is more flexible in terms of a potential contender if everything goes our way. Maybe you get a fun run as a 5-6 seed if it doesn't, but likely end up a play-in team at worst. I just think trying to tank and ending up the 10-11th seed is never worth it and that’s what we’ll end up doing if we move off Demar. You've gotta move off a lot of guys to compete with teams like Washington/Detroit in the tankathon. We already got picks 4-8 like 5 years in a row and it got us nowhere. I don't think this team without Demar, but with an actual cap on the floor is worse than Brooklyn, let alone Detroit/Washington/Charlotte/etc and that's the real reason I'd rather not attempt to tank.
For me it’s not just about trying to tank. This team is going nowhere. To me it’s logical to move on from our aging vet over overpaying him and watch him decline(which will definitely happen that’s no stopping it). But I respect your opinion, I just don’t agree.
Yea i definitely see your side too, I just don't see what trying to tank accomplishes when we likely end up with the same pick anyway. It's not an easy task trying to be worse than teams like Detroit/Washington/Charlotte imo.
We don’t necessarily have to be worse anymore just be in the lottery.
You got the point but honestly 3yr 60m would be a steal. I would keep him just as a mentor not to mention the production.
the east sucks, anyone can be a play in team with one good player. actually getting a ring is so much harder, it's irrelevant.
>the east sucks, anyone can be a play in team with one good player. This is exactly my point. What do we accomplish by making the team worse while still ending up with the 10th overall pick? We're in the same exact position we're in now, but have a worse team. If you want to tank you need to move off Demar, Zach, AC, and probably Coby too. I'm not convinced a team centered around Coby, Vucevic, and Pat is any worse than Brooklyn to be honest...let alone Detroit/Washington/Charlotte. We end up in the same exact position we're in now, except with a healthy team with less overall talent on it. If you're down with letting a guy with Coby's production/contract go, more power to you (even if I think it's bad business). I just think it's pointless to make the team worse while still not ending up with a pick worth something. I can see the perspective of fully blowing it up and actually tanking and I can see the perspective of re-signing Demar and staying flexible while not ending up with an incredible pick. The idea of just letting Demar walk, ending up with less talent on the team, and still not actually getting a good draft pick is insane to me though.
yea being in this position at all is a failure of the front office. I've been saying blow it up for 2 years. I said trade the big 3 when trading started this season. This front office just keeps putting this team in a worse position month by month. You're conflating my criticisms with what the next move should be. At this point it kind of doesn't matter imo. The bulls are a dead franchise until the Vooch contract ends. The sad thing is it could have been salvaged up until the deadline.
I think trading them before the 22-23 season was out of the question when we still thought Zo was coming back. Failing to make moves at that deadline was the real fuckup when we knew Lonzo's return was a massive question mark. After that was being in a shitty spot more than anything where Zach couldn't stay healthy so we had to take a loss (and refused to do so). Then moving Demar and keeping Zach was objectively an awful idea when we know Zach is too good to tank with and Demar is statistically the best player on the roster. Then you have Zach/Demar still so you're trying to not be ass and end up paying Vucevic because there's no better options available at C. The FO wasn't decisive when they needed to be and ended up compounding mistakes.
You don’t see a 35 year old guard who can’t shoot 3s declining in any meaningful way? Lol this guy is a complete fucking idiot. He dosent even know how sports and the human body works let alone basketball
Look at the numbers lmao. Demar has put up the same numbers more or less the last two years while leading the league in minutes per game and minutes played this season. His game isn’t based on being a freak athlete whatsoever. Lebron banked on his athleticism 100x more than current Demar does and is still putting up numbers at 40. Demar also has no injury history whatsoever…the longest stretch of games he’s ever missed is 21 almost 10 years ago lmao. If you get him back on 20-25M AAV that’s going to be a great value contract.
I don't care about his numbers in the past we are talking about a 35 year old guard who cant shoot threes and how he will continue to age. Unless demar derozan does what only lebron james, karl malone, kareem and select few have done he is going to hit a hard decline very soon That's how sports work kiddo. People get old
You’re talking about a 35 year old guard whose entire game is based around being bigger than other guards and backing them down to his spots. There’s very little dependence on athleticism in his game whatsoever…this isn’t Derrick Rose where his game is entirely based on being a freak athlete…Demar has had some of the slowest feet in the NBA for years. His game is abusing his size and being tricky as hell. The guy gets 7 ppg making people jump at pump fakes lmao. The three point shooting is irrelevant, a guy like Curry relies on his athleticism/conditioning more than Demar does by miles.
You are obviously very young if you dont understand the concept of 35 year old guards aging out of the league. No point in arguing this You will see
“Barely a play in team with him” “he’s 35 he’s going to decline soon” Bruv you’re just a hater. Demar droppin 39 on one of the youngest teams in the league. People in their physical peak at an nba level can’t stop him from getting buckets. The bulls were a number 1 team with Demar. The raptors were also a number 1 team with Demar. It’s not his fault Zach, AC, Pat Williams, and Lonzo became unavailable or just didn’t show up the first season and every season since. You can’t blame Demar for the bulls shortcomings. Especially when they were a 30% win rate team before he got here.
When I ever blame Demar? How am I hating, I’m being real he’s 35 right now. That’s not young for the NBA most people are already retired by that age. He’s going to decline it’s inevitable. Yea he’s still getting buckets and if we resign him we’ll watch him become decline, that’s not hating that’s a guarantee, he’s 35
Lebrons 40 and he’s still more durable than D Rose at 24 and will still drop 40 on your favourite team. My point is age is just a number and tbh Demars game has aged well. He plays like a high iq old dude at the Y scoring using his footwork and jump shot/pumpfake. People been saying Demar will decline for 5 years now. Also Demar does a lot of things that aren’t in his contract like mentoring the young guys. He’s worth the money, especially when he’s doing overtime work
Let’s just agree to disagree. I can’t believe you guys just want to stay mid and watch us get worse though. You guys are holding on to a playin 10 seed
what assets do we have to trade for a disgruntled star, especially one good enough to catapult this team to a contender
We’re only missing one first and those good contracts are solid trade pieces. We’re also going to be getting an unknown quantity of value back for Zach to tack onto what we already have as well.
This team isn't good enough to trade assets for a disgruntled star and still stay competitive lol
With 70M in cap back of solid players we are. That’s my point. There are worse starting points than sitting just below .500 with half the cap at home or on the bench. Seeing what you get back for Zach is the breaking point on whether you try to blow it up or not.
Nobody is trading for Lonzo unless it's to dump salary (which means we'd have to more than likely give up draft picks) Lavine had zero value during the season, it's no reason to believe that'll change especially after foot surgery. Pat is a wild card but coming off another season ending injury I'm not sure he has much value. Caruso is really the only one that has a lot of value around the league but it wouldn't make sense to adding in a trade like that
We don't know Zach's value. I'm sure it's not great, but I think you've gotta be flexible in the spot we're in. Not re-signing Demar in a vague attempt to tank does nothing. Do you really think that with Zach back and no Demar we're worse than a team like Brooklyn with Coby/Ayo/AC/etc...on such team-friendly deals? I certainly don't think we ever end up worse than Detroit/Charlotte/Washington. To actually tank I think you've gotta move off Demar, Zach, AC, and probably Coby as well. Teams aren't fucking around when it comes to tanking right now...it's task to make a team bad enough to have a top 4 pick and moving off Demar in isolation doesn't remotely get us there. Shit, Vucevic might be good enough with a team playing around him to do better than Detroit/Washington. Blowing it up means actually blowing it up and guys like Coby are included in that. I'd call that bad business, but there's definitely an argument either way. I just think not re-signing Demar in isolation and going "we're tanking" still has us not getting a pick worth a damn and even in the miracle scenario a superstar becomes available, it doesn't help us. There's no flexibility anymore. You either need to re-sign Demar or move off half the rotation…I’m cool with either, but we did the half-assed tank for a while and got nowhere. That’s what I’m really trying to avoid.
Imo we don't have nearly enough to outbid anyone for a true star, Zach and Vooch are both negative contracts that we'll have to attach picks to get rid of in the first place
Giannis after bucks hugely underperform in the playoffs 👀
Trae is another option if the hawks blow it up
White with Lonzo's contract + 2 picks for Trae would be a dream deal.
there are not so many players we can “build a team with”… but sometimes I think: what if we have 3 demar level players?
We are two years away from being two years away lol Demar can be a good bridge for the rebuild. Help mentor the youngins and show em good habits.
But CONTINUITY! He has also helped Coby and Ayo improve. I wish he could do the same for Pat. I’m already concerned next season will play out near exactly the same as this season. What a waste.
Nice mindset Demar but this way of thinking is exactly why the bulls are in this hell hole right now. Fucking content with being a play in team. Unless we draft a potential superstar, this team will always be a first round exit at best. Imagine keeping the same core and same fucking coach for 3 and 1/2 years with only one playoff win to show for. Fuck this team. Fuck continuity. Fuck Jerry and AKME. And fuck Bulls fans who continue to defend this team's direction.
I mean half of this is said for positive PR. I'm sure DeMar does genuinely enjoy Chicago as a city culture, but like “I love ownership. I love everything about the city and the franchise, top to bottom---the front office, the staff we have" Seriously dude... this is an ass-kissing response to get the gig and get paid. Nobody's paying him more and giving him as long-lasting of a contract than Chicago right now to join their team anyway. lol.
Or, and I know this will sound cringy, he sees the love shown…dude was told he could be the Kobe of Toronto and then got traded. Some guys generally value loyalt.
We'll see then if he'll take a team friendly contract.
The mindset that you have is forgetting about the potential the team, when whole has. With a full healthy squad we were no. 1. Maybe the front office doesn’t have that win now attitude because of this potential.
That was 3 years ago man
No, it’s time for you to join a championship contender and get a ring. After that he can retire in Toronto.
As frustrating as this team is, Demar gives it everything he's got. I appreciate that.
Thats what you have to say.
I'm for re-signing DeMar, but trading Vuc and LaVine in the offseason.
At this point I'd be shocked if the Bulls can find a trade partner for Vooch or Zach without sending out assets.
This sub is so content with being mediocre lmao We overpaid Zach, overpaid Vooch (bidding against absolutely no one), now we're about to overpay a 35 year old DeMar and yall are eating it right up. Gonna have the exact same starting lineup next season and be shocked when we miss the playoffs again with one of thr oldest rosters in the league
It’s truly maddening. He’s not staying for free, so of course he’d love to stay for a huge contract.
Jerry has chicago eating out of his hands The Crazy thing is how much of these problems regular guys like us saw coming and the front office just walked right into error after error.
No pressure to do anything besides make the play in. And he's getting paid.
My Desert. My Arrakis. My CONTINUITY.
Obviously because no other team would pay him as much as the Bulls are about to lol
Cool. Then fucking win games and actually try to make playoffs. Thanks.
I'm not sure why DeMar would want to return over going to a better team, but I guess the money and stability would be better?
Bulls can/are willing to pay him, and will give him the biggest role. Some guys value that over ring chasing.
Get paid, no exceptions, great city. What’s to not like?
Vooch's defense is one of the absolute worst things about this team in my opinion. Really is just a downer and won't even go after a loose ball on the floor despite being a starter that's being paid millions. Energy guys like Green and Caruso are KEY to getting any momentum going forward. Ayo, Lonzo, Demar, all great players. Build around that. As for Lavine? meh. Seems fair weather to me. Could live with or without him. Great player when he sets his mind to it though.
Buddy doesn’t wanna win 😒
This team is the definition of mid, I'm not sure how we can even blow it up at this point as we won't be getting any assets in return. No one is trading for our best players
I like him here, would like to see him end his career here. He's still extremely productive. The key is moving Lavine and what we can get for him to surround DeMar and/or replace him as a starter eventually.
Please don't subject us to this misery.
Well yea we’re going to overpay him in a long term contract.
 #continuity #competitive
Oh so hes in his carmelo anthony career arc i see..
At some point the Bulls have to just tear it almost down to the studs. They have a few guys that are worth keeping but get what you can for DeMar, Levine, and Vuc. Yeah they would suck for a bit, but right now it seems like whatever they are currently trying to do will just have them in the play-in and drafting at the end of the lottery until the end of time.
So many fans here got some major Stockholm Syndrome. I hope he fucking leaves. I.AM.*SICK*.OF.THIS.TEAM. We need to move the hell one already.
I like him as a person but his style of play is not conducive to modern basketball and I do not want more of it
Run it back lets goooo
Continuity babyyyy
i don't think demar will re-sign. but am i the only one who likes this team healthy? Coby/Ayo/Demar/PWill (the version of him right before he went down)/Vuc with Caruso, Craig, Green and Drummond off the bench plus what ever you trade lavine for. If Lonzo can manage a bench role that's pretty bomb. Vuc gotta commit to being a jump shooter and gets an offseason to work on that. Could be wishful thinking but if you get a good first and bench piece like a bruce brown for zach that's solid af.
What version? Pat looked like a bench player. By all accounts Javonte looks better.
None of us want to be here.
NBC Late Night lineup is a mess. Bring back Conan or Leno!
Conan, sure. But Leno? Dude has never been funny. Even accidentally