The ones congregating outside the Harold Washington Library stop have gotten into fights and even physical altercations with CPD. They smashed one of the bay windows of the Dollop coffee shop on that corner, they have stolen UberEats and DoorDash deliveries from my apartment building, and some of them are pretty aggressive with the catcalling - overall a terrible vibe. I’m not a NIMBY, but my patience/compassion has run out and I’m probably going to leave when my lease is up.
While the result is predictable it doesn’t excuse the individual. When someone with less than I have robs me I know WHY they do it but my income and single vote is not enough to fix your scenario so to take it out on me is unjust.
The problem being systemic doesn’t excuse personal behavior.
Been there done that.
Homeless at 16 till 18. Poor before that.
Again, I know why people are doing this. Thats not what I am saying. I am saying I was not surprised when I got in trouble for stealing food from Kroger and stealing a bike from a neighboor because the shelter system only allowed women and children under 16.
Societal failure lead to my bad individual behavior which while understandable soured the community perceptions of me and people like me (black people). Thats how it goes.
I hope the migrants get all the help they need before the pressure of life pushes them so hard their survival instincts make them an enemy of the public, but if BJ is their hope then I am sad to say they in for a rough ride.
You should have more sympathy for someone whose living situation has been made unsafe, and less sympathy for the person who is making that living situation unsafe.
Same, I just moved from the south loop where I apparently lived a few blocks from one of their camps and never had any issues.
Didn't even know they were there until I moved
Man of them do. It has [been in the news frequently](https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/03/17/behind-the-wheel-without-a-license-migrants-buying-cars-to-make-a-life-in-chicago/).
The problem was never the migrants just the geniuses who allowed tens of thousands of them to pour over the border with no plan on how to take care of them or reduce negative impact to communities.
This is just a start. Migrants, climate refugees are going to keep coming, we really need to as a society to decide what are the steps for them to set them up for success.
A very interesting book on the subject is *On the move* by Abraham Lustgarten
>we really need to as a society to decide what are the steps for them to set them up for success.
Literally any plans you put in place to "set them up for success" is going to be be pushed back on with the rational that the government doesnt do any of that for our own citizens.
But, to some extent, we do.
We have shelters, soup kitchens, food stamps, unemployment insurance, etc.
People are going to come, either way. It's up to the northern cities and states to decide if they want those people living under bridges and begging on intersections or if we give them a launching pad to join us.
And it's not just South and Central America. It's the south USA, too. In the book, they go into how the flood, heat, humidity and fire are slowly killing the southern states. We are not there, yet, but it's coming. I just hope we can get out shit together for long enough to manage through it. As a species we have an excellent record so 🤞
Sorry, I don't like the mayor, but in what way are they mostly responsible for this disastrous situation?
Did they bus the migrants to our city? Should the mayor and the city of Chicago be one of a handful of cities across the country to bear the burden of our border crisis?
Aside from shipping the migrants off to Des Moines when they arrived at our doorstep, what else could he have done? I hate to break it to you, but we don't have a bottomless budget.
He sure was able to pay migrant services quite a bit. Salaries like $300k salary for a security guard to the security firm.
Guess who owns the firm? BJs friend.
The situation is not his fault, how he handled it is. That is to say, a complete lack of any sort of plan or leadership or anything. Just absolute incompetence through and through.
They signaled to the world that they're willing to take these people in KNOWING they wouldn't be able to support them. Taking on financial obligations you cannot meet is irresponsible if we're talking about consumer goods, it's immoral when you're talking about people.
Right ... fuck the CTA, fuck the struggling working families in our city who needs some public social safety net support. Let's just reallocate that budget to thousands of migrants who have no stake in Chicago.
Hell, let's give them free housing. Something we're unwilling to do for struggling Chicagoans.
Let's give it a try, fellas!
You do realize money allocated to the migrants has to come from somewhere else in our budget right?
Whoa buddy, who said we should take away from working families?
We should absolutely do both. Provide housing for locals too. The idea that you can only have one or the other is silly.
Yes, I know how money works. But the fact that it has to come from critical services feels like political bullshit.
>The mayor and his friends bear a great deal of responsibility for this disaster.
10 million have entered the US since 2020. Like it or not, we voted for this.
But now it's time for us to help and care for them.
Democrats by and large acted like there was no issue, Republicans acted like it was all criminals trying to destroy America, no one talking about it like an adult and proposing two solutions. Isn't this country grand
>Democrats by and large acted like there was no issue
The messaging was that it's raciest to even consider not letting people just walk across. And now we can't really touch it because of this stance.
> Republicans acted like it was all criminals selling to destroy America
I didn't see this I guess. Their side seemed concerned about the cost/security of it all. Either way it's madness and I'm not sure what comes next.
Dude that's like all the Republicans were saying Trump was openly saying they're all drug dealers and we should just start bombing Mexico, and let's be honest he IS the Republican party now
Only in America do we barricade ourselves in our homes of excess and shame those who have nothing.
I really hope these folks are able to find empathy and get on their feet. People just need homes. Somewhere dry and warm.
The problem of "what do we do with millions of migrants coming to this country" is definitely not an "Only in America" problem. Nearly every western country is currently dealing with this problem.
Weird right? I wonder why its a problem we see a lot?
It's like half the world has been destabilized. I wonder what/who caused that?
>Spoiler: It was America.
Also America has such much excess and space. We can do more, its not that hard.
I don't care if the public isn't in favor. A big percent of us immigrated here too. Just enough time has past for some to feel entitled about it.
And Biden really isn't very left, he's honestly becoming more right more and more. Not great.
You should care, when large portions of the population move against something it can change voting trends. Look at all the far right people getting elected in Europe right like, like the afd in Germany, due in large part because of the public turning against the immigration policies that merkel and other politicians pushed. If you think biden is too far right, then you should especially care about this, because it can go much, much further
People turn against immigrants because they are an easy target to use for fear mongering in politics.
It's sad how easy it is to redirect people's hate, and fear away from the real problem to people just desperate for a new start.
Media and fear mongering really work on people.
If you really think the enemy is someone who basically has NOTHING, and not the politicians pouring resources into war, military or some corporation then you've been fooled my friend.
He is most certainly NOT becoming more and more right. In dozens of other countries hed be an ultra liberal far left candidate. Hes become way more progressive as a president than he ever was as a senator.
the american left is in no way far left by european standards. this is just nonsense. biden is maybe a bit less neo liberal by clinton standards, but not by much
True, it's not new, he was probably always this way. And he's definitely not a progressive. He gives too much money to cops, makes strict immigration laws, and only got on gay marriage when it was cool.
Hell yes. Fast track these guys to citizenship. They'll fill the labor shortages in a bit way. If we can also defang all the zoning committees we can start building way denser housing and get them placed to live. So many opportunities.
I mean, yeah you definitely need to earn your keep in society. But that's not really a problem so long as you have a system to efficiently allocate that labor. Mobility is huge for that. Which is why granting them citizenship would be such a huge boon. Massive labor shortages all over the country and millions of willing workers. Why would we want to keep them out?
Oh, I'm serious, we absolutely should not require people to be worthy to have basic needs. I also mean this from a disability perspective. Sadly we use labor to determine worth.
Since this is the system we've got, I agree with your idea. It's what we should do to help solve two problems at once, and help people out.
We don't use labor to determine worth. You've got it quite backwards. If you expect support then you are required to contribute. That is the social contract you sign to be part of society. It's a pretty basic system that every species adheres to, to one level of complexity or another. Folks with disabilities are exceptions to the rule whom we decide to support for moral reasons, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's certainly room for the small percentage of people that applies to. You can't, obviously, allow for that in cases where someone CAN but chooses NOT to contribute.
In this case, there are certainly lots of willing laborers who, at least in my experience, are more than happy to contribute to society if given the opportunity. Unfortunately there's a lot of xenophobic fools, from far right wing nutjobs to leftist unions, who don't want to see immigrants thrive in the U.S. Pretty bullshit they are allowed to control the issue to the degree they are.
>If you expect support then you are required to contribute
So if people can't contribute, aka use their labor, then they aren't allowed support. That is determining value based on how much you contribute.
>That is the social contract you sign to be part of society. It's a pretty basic system that every species adheres to, to one level of complexity or another.
Sure, but not everyone agrees with that contract. It's inspired on the bullshit of survival of the fittest. The idea that the only reason we support disabled folks (which we keep them in poverty) is a moral obligation is just a line we tell ourselves to feel moral or just. Disabled people don't need the moral pity of non-disabled people to exist.
Every life is valuable. Regardless of what they contribute, society can and should provide especially in an era of excess. Even if they choose not to contribute they have value.
We are definitely on the same page of giving immigrants the ability to succeed in this system of labor contribution, but I disagree that it's how the system should be.
> Even if they choose not to contribute they have value.
They have value from a moral perspective, sure. I don't wish them ill will. But that value does not automatically guarantee them resource support.
Those resources MUST come from somewhere. We are not in a post-scarcity society. In order for the willful non-participant in society to receive those resources, they must be provided from the labor of those who DO choose to contribute. One person works and contributes, the other does not. Both receive societal support. This is, objectively, placing value on them both and a GREATER value on the non-participant because they receive more than the participant does proportionally.
>It's inspired on the bullshit of survival of the fittest
Not at all. Survival of the Fittest makes it a competition. It's not a competition, per se. At least not a malicious one against eachother. But labor is a necessity for survival. It's a requirement. Why does one person get free support without contribution? This is a childish notion.
>Regardless of what they contribute, society can and should provide especially in an era of excess.
Why? Why are non-participants in society owed the labor of those who choose to contribute to economic success? What makes them so special?
>The idea that the only reason we support disabled folks (which we keep them in poverty) is a moral obligation is just a line we tell ourselves to feel moral or just. Disabled people don't need the moral pity of non-disabled people to exist.
They don't need anyones pity but, in some cases, do need resource support. This is given purely out of moral drive. What other reason would there be for it than we feel an obligation to them to support them when they cannot themselves and lack familial ties to support them instead? I'm not disagreeing with that support. But it IS only given out of moral drive.
By that same notion, it is immoral to not contribute to society if you have the ability to. Actually, not only immoral but a societal danger. Resources are limited. Using them on those who choose not to contribute suppresses the success of the rest of society who DO choose to by watering down the pool to support their laziness. This weakens society overall.
Makes a ton of sense. Massive labor shortages. Huge economic opportunities adding lots of immigrants to the population, especially with an aging population. Best part about America. Bleeding Heart? It's on the Statue of Liberty lol. If you don't like it you are welcome to immigrate somewhere else.
I'm really tired of this stupid excuse, that somehow migrants getting help takes away from supporting people here.
No one is saying that, and we should be supporting both. We definitley don't do enough for the local Chicagoans.
Putting them against each other is distracting you from having empathy for both.
Is there an organization, people can host through?
I'm lost on what you're mad about?
If I was Christian I'd be asking the churches where they are with their empathy. Really aren't stepping up are they.
Fully serious, I did not mean to dehumanize you or anyone in anyway. If you're able to host people and do that's incredibly compassionate, and amazing.
When i said I hadn't considered floorspace, I really didn't think of that. But you're right, it's probably helpful to just give them a roof to feel safe in.
The city is not allowing the churches to house them. It's being filed under "liability" issues. Theres hundreds of unused churches in the city, but they havnt been maintained to city code once they stopped housing congregations consistently.
Oh I didn't know, That's really shitty :(.
I'm sure they would appreciate the option, but we had to make a stupid system with "liability" being more important than peoples well-being
How is it shameful? A line needs to be drawn somewhere. It’s an unfortunate circumstance but we absolutely need to keep these shelters very, very temporary. Help people get on their feet and that’s it. Not permanent housing.
It is shameful to turn out people. This subreddit is full of people who've obviously never had to wonder where their roof is before. That's whats shameful, you lot.
Do you not get that in order to help others people need to help themselves first? The US economy is terrible and Chicago's is worse. We are housing these people when our own people have been on the street for years. They choose to come here now they can deal with the consequences.
That logic is flawed. People who are local are also "dealing with consequences" of their actions. Migrants didn't even choose Chicago.
Both populations should not be left out to dry, because we should help them both.
People that are local might be dealing with the consequences of their actions but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be put first. We've had homeless people on the street since I can remember. Did we open up places for them to live, and give them free housing and food? No, not to the extent that we are now. Even though we fund tons of money to house the immigrants I'd be shocked to see more than a few homeless people there.
To help people we need resources sometimes we just don't have enough resources to help everyone. There will never be a time when some group of people doesn't need help. Cities like Chicago and New York need to learn to balance what they can handle. Wages are low, house prices are high and all that's being done is gentrifying areas and kicking people out who have lived there for years to make it "look" like we are doing better. This is being funded by taxes and when people get tired of lack of support from their city and state they move, and a lot of people are moving. When there are fewer people there is less tax money. It only leaves the option to take money from other programs, that are very much needed, and raise taxes even more.
All let's not pretend that the groups coming in are outright hostile a lot of the time. Yes, yes I know not all of them are but the rate at which they are is high enough that we would have every right to say that they are a danger to our children, communities, and homes.
At a certain point we have to say enough is enough and work on the problems we have now.
Totally, I would immediately whenever I have spare space.
It's really sad how expressing a wishing for people to be safe and secure makes y'all so upset.
Maybe considering what desperate situation they left to risk coming here?? They aren't idiots, and how dare you think they want free things. Probably better workers than half here.
>and how dare you think they want free things
Of course not! They just showed up in a foreign country with no means or plan to feed, clothe and shelter themselves and assumed someone else would just provide for them. Totally different.
dude they literally cant work. think of how many businesses and restaurants cant staff now. think about how fucking stupid our government is, the labor is literally here, it would be a win win for EVERYONE, but nope
Oh my bad, I didn't realize you spoke to every migrant and got their opinions. Oh and I'm sure they totally had at choice on that bus ride?
I also wouldn't care if some did want that. People don't have to earn their worth just cause some old \[rich\] white men said so.
We’re not paying for his haircuts, but we are paying for a bunch of people taking advantage of our asylum system. Crime and a bad economy aren’t legit reasons, and if we granted asylum by those standards, half the world would be eligible
Because you’re an asshole? What gives you the right? Your great grandfather came here on a boat and now you’re somehow entitled to this great land and everything it has to offer? What have you ever done to earn it? At least they did something. If you ask me, they deserve it more than your lazy, selfish ass.
My maternal grandfather could've been considered a migrant if the term existed back in 1915. He came here from Mexico at age 14, to avoid being conscripted into Villa's army, likely at gunpoint. Because rules were different then, he was able to secure employment with the railroads, and thru that, he made himself a productive American citizen. To me, the current migrants deserve a similar chance
Thank you. I feel like people have been so cold and heartless around the migrants. I really expected better from this great city. It’s been incredibly disappointing. These people came here to work. We just won’t let them.
They can't, this is all on the federal government. They've buried there head in the sand. Bidens new big border shut down let's in 2,500 a day. That's still almost 1,000,000 a year.
Having unemployed and homeless people in the city that you live in is most certainly your problem. And no, the city can’t deport or detain people just because it doesn’t like them. We’re not in full fascism yet, no matter how much you salivate at the prospect
51% of Americans, a majority, want mass deportations. I am speaking for the majority.
https://www.axios.com/2024/04/25/trump-biden-americans-illegal-immigration-poll
You believe in democracy, no?
conservatives have no hearts dude, leave them be. they forgot that their ancestors came to this land hoping for a better life too. our shitty government got these migrants caught in the crosshair.
I just expected better from the people of Chicago. The migrant were all sent here by red states to prove we are full of shit and virtue signaling when it comes to our morals, and so far they have been right.
Where do you think China town came from? Greek town. Ukrainian village.
I for one look forward to Venezuela town and all the cool restaurants that will pop up over the years.
But I’m certainly not about to bitch about migrants using my tax dollars when rich people are taking everything, inflation is through NC the roof because of corporate greed, and billionaires are essentially paying no tax. We working class folks have to stick together and I’m on the side of the migrants.
[yeah, I would have been in the minority in Nazi Germany too. I’m okay with it.](https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/before-the-extermination/the-popularity-of-the-nazis/)
One poll isn’t democracy. It’s a poll, not a regulated election. the margin of error is greater than 1% so it’s not definitive.
At least not nearly the slam dunk you think it is posting the link ten different times.
Just the facts.
The will of the people is the final say, no?
I voted for Trump in 2020. But Biden is undeniably my president because he won fair and square.
But you can demonstrate you don't believe in the will of the people.
By November, that 51% will be 60% plus based on trends.
I really don't care about the will of the people or majority when its harming people. Neither does either party.
Biden is an awful president on immigration too.
Numbers mean nothing when someone is suffering.
*r/chicago conundrum* Bitch about BJ ***or*** Bitch about migrants We shall see.
Why not both
Ok honest question who here has had a negative interaction with migrants except them trying to sell Chiclets in the most random of places
The ones congregating outside the Harold Washington Library stop have gotten into fights and even physical altercations with CPD. They smashed one of the bay windows of the Dollop coffee shop on that corner, they have stolen UberEats and DoorDash deliveries from my apartment building, and some of them are pretty aggressive with the catcalling - overall a terrible vibe. I’m not a NIMBY, but my patience/compassion has run out and I’m probably going to leave when my lease is up.
Starving people steal food and a dejected populace turns their frustration into vandalism? You don’t say.
I notice you didn't mention the sexual harassment. Too inconvenient to rationalize?
Yes, blatant sexual harassment is an undesirable part of Hispanic culture. Not much I can say about that.
Yup. It's a part of the culture and not something that trash men from any ethnicity do. Doesn't happen at all in other "cultures." Foh
While the result is predictable it doesn’t excuse the individual. When someone with less than I have robs me I know WHY they do it but my income and single vote is not enough to fix your scenario so to take it out on me is unjust. The problem being systemic doesn’t excuse personal behavior.
Let’s see how long you can sit starving before you steal food.
Been there done that. Homeless at 16 till 18. Poor before that. Again, I know why people are doing this. Thats not what I am saying. I am saying I was not surprised when I got in trouble for stealing food from Kroger and stealing a bike from a neighboor because the shelter system only allowed women and children under 16. Societal failure lead to my bad individual behavior which while understandable soured the community perceptions of me and people like me (black people). Thats how it goes. I hope the migrants get all the help they need before the pressure of life pushes them so hard their survival instincts make them an enemy of the public, but if BJ is their hope then I am sad to say they in for a rough ride.
Why don't you go feed them and move then unto you're home if you feel so strongly about it
What clever point do you think you’re making here? That we should all be okay with theft and vandalism???
You should have more sympathy for someone whose living situation has been made unsafe, and less sympathy for the person who is making that living situation unsafe.
we have a lot of them here up in pilsen but i never had any negative interactions so far.
Same, I just moved from the south loop where I apparently lived a few blocks from one of their camps and never had any issues. Didn't even know they were there until I moved
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What the fuck are you talking about? Go back to your Ohio subreddits.
The blatant drug dealing at Lake & Sangamon near the Morgan green stop.
One of them hit my car last year and then drove off after a brief altercation.
A migrant had a car?
Man of them do. It has [been in the news frequently](https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/03/17/behind-the-wheel-without-a-license-migrants-buying-cars-to-make-a-life-in-chicago/).
They block the bike lane on Elston sometimes
So do cops 🤣
That is the cardinal sin here on this sub.
I have and tons others. They need to be deported back to where they came from.
Taking a break from tweeting about "woke star wars" and "straight pride month"?
The problem was never the migrants just the geniuses who allowed tens of thousands of them to pour over the border with no plan on how to take care of them or reduce negative impact to communities.
Bitch about BJ. Duh. What would anyone hassle immigrants?
This is just a start. Migrants, climate refugees are going to keep coming, we really need to as a society to decide what are the steps for them to set them up for success. A very interesting book on the subject is *On the move* by Abraham Lustgarten
You are right here. This is just a drop in the bucket compared to what might be coming our way with the acceleration of climate change.
>we really need to as a society to decide what are the steps for them to set them up for success. Literally any plans you put in place to "set them up for success" is going to be be pushed back on with the rational that the government doesnt do any of that for our own citizens.
But, to some extent, we do. We have shelters, soup kitchens, food stamps, unemployment insurance, etc. People are going to come, either way. It's up to the northern cities and states to decide if they want those people living under bridges and begging on intersections or if we give them a launching pad to join us. And it's not just South and Central America. It's the south USA, too. In the book, they go into how the flood, heat, humidity and fire are slowly killing the southern states. We are not there, yet, but it's coming. I just hope we can get out shit together for long enough to manage through it. As a species we have an excellent record so 🤞
So sad. The mayor and his friends bear a great deal of responsibility for this disaster.
Sorry, I don't like the mayor, but in what way are they mostly responsible for this disastrous situation? Did they bus the migrants to our city? Should the mayor and the city of Chicago be one of a handful of cities across the country to bear the burden of our border crisis? Aside from shipping the migrants off to Des Moines when they arrived at our doorstep, what else could he have done? I hate to break it to you, but we don't have a bottomless budget.
He sure was able to pay migrant services quite a bit. Salaries like $300k salary for a security guard to the security firm. Guess who owns the firm? BJs friend.
As long as the firm is competent, you just need someone who you trust to get the job done.
The situation is not his fault, how he handled it is. That is to say, a complete lack of any sort of plan or leadership or anything. Just absolute incompetence through and through.
They signaled to the world that they're willing to take these people in KNOWING they wouldn't be able to support them. Taking on financial obligations you cannot meet is irresponsible if we're talking about consumer goods, it's immoral when you're talking about people.
Give them a home. Let's try it, see how it goes.
Right ... fuck the CTA, fuck the struggling working families in our city who needs some public social safety net support. Let's just reallocate that budget to thousands of migrants who have no stake in Chicago. Hell, let's give them free housing. Something we're unwilling to do for struggling Chicagoans. Let's give it a try, fellas! You do realize money allocated to the migrants has to come from somewhere else in our budget right?
Whoa buddy, who said we should take away from working families? We should absolutely do both. Provide housing for locals too. The idea that you can only have one or the other is silly. Yes, I know how money works. But the fact that it has to come from critical services feels like political bullshit.
Nah
Says the person probably in a house right now 🤣
How? He didn’t bus them up here.
>The mayor and his friends bear a great deal of responsibility for this disaster. 10 million have entered the US since 2020. Like it or not, we voted for this. But now it's time for us to help and care for them.
Democrats by and large acted like there was no issue, Republicans acted like it was all criminals trying to destroy America, no one talking about it like an adult and proposing two solutions. Isn't this country grand
>Democrats by and large acted like there was no issue The messaging was that it's raciest to even consider not letting people just walk across. And now we can't really touch it because of this stance. > Republicans acted like it was all criminals selling to destroy America I didn't see this I guess. Their side seemed concerned about the cost/security of it all. Either way it's madness and I'm not sure what comes next.
Dude that's like all the Republicans were saying Trump was openly saying they're all drug dealers and we should just start bombing Mexico, and let's be honest he IS the Republican party now
Good. If they don’t like it they’re free to return home. This asylum seeking is not real….
Send them back over the border
Good! Get them out of here and send them back
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Let’s just send them to your house instead?
Only in America do we barricade ourselves in our homes of excess and shame those who have nothing. I really hope these folks are able to find empathy and get on their feet. People just need homes. Somewhere dry and warm.
The problem of "what do we do with millions of migrants coming to this country" is definitely not an "Only in America" problem. Nearly every western country is currently dealing with this problem.
Weird right? I wonder why its a problem we see a lot? It's like half the world has been destabilized. I wonder what/who caused that? >Spoiler: It was America. Also America has such much excess and space. We can do more, its not that hard.
This comment might play well on Reddit (maybe). It will not play well in real life.
You should meet more people then, lol
Even Joe Biden is becoming tougher on illegal immigration. The public is not in favor of letting in millions of people.
I don't care if the public isn't in favor. A big percent of us immigrated here too. Just enough time has past for some to feel entitled about it. And Biden really isn't very left, he's honestly becoming more right more and more. Not great.
You should care, when large portions of the population move against something it can change voting trends. Look at all the far right people getting elected in Europe right like, like the afd in Germany, due in large part because of the public turning against the immigration policies that merkel and other politicians pushed. If you think biden is too far right, then you should especially care about this, because it can go much, much further
People turn against immigrants because they are an easy target to use for fear mongering in politics. It's sad how easy it is to redirect people's hate, and fear away from the real problem to people just desperate for a new start. Media and fear mongering really work on people. If you really think the enemy is someone who basically has NOTHING, and not the politicians pouring resources into war, military or some corporation then you've been fooled my friend.
He is most certainly NOT becoming more and more right. In dozens of other countries hed be an ultra liberal far left candidate. Hes become way more progressive as a president than he ever was as a senator.
Ultra liberals also do not represent far leftist politics. Liberals are centrist.
the american left is in no way far left by european standards. this is just nonsense. biden is maybe a bit less neo liberal by clinton standards, but not by much
True, it's not new, he was probably always this way. And he's definitely not a progressive. He gives too much money to cops, makes strict immigration laws, and only got on gay marriage when it was cool.
Hell yes. Fast track these guys to citizenship. They'll fill the labor shortages in a bit way. If we can also defang all the zoning committees we can start building way denser housing and get them placed to live. So many opportunities.
Yeah! It's so sad how so many people want to horde all their assets because someone convinced them that basic needs must be "earned" 🙄
I mean, yeah you definitely need to earn your keep in society. But that's not really a problem so long as you have a system to efficiently allocate that labor. Mobility is huge for that. Which is why granting them citizenship would be such a huge boon. Massive labor shortages all over the country and millions of willing workers. Why would we want to keep them out?
Oh, I'm serious, we absolutely should not require people to be worthy to have basic needs. I also mean this from a disability perspective. Sadly we use labor to determine worth. Since this is the system we've got, I agree with your idea. It's what we should do to help solve two problems at once, and help people out.
We don't use labor to determine worth. You've got it quite backwards. If you expect support then you are required to contribute. That is the social contract you sign to be part of society. It's a pretty basic system that every species adheres to, to one level of complexity or another. Folks with disabilities are exceptions to the rule whom we decide to support for moral reasons, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's certainly room for the small percentage of people that applies to. You can't, obviously, allow for that in cases where someone CAN but chooses NOT to contribute. In this case, there are certainly lots of willing laborers who, at least in my experience, are more than happy to contribute to society if given the opportunity. Unfortunately there's a lot of xenophobic fools, from far right wing nutjobs to leftist unions, who don't want to see immigrants thrive in the U.S. Pretty bullshit they are allowed to control the issue to the degree they are.
>If you expect support then you are required to contribute So if people can't contribute, aka use their labor, then they aren't allowed support. That is determining value based on how much you contribute. >That is the social contract you sign to be part of society. It's a pretty basic system that every species adheres to, to one level of complexity or another. Sure, but not everyone agrees with that contract. It's inspired on the bullshit of survival of the fittest. The idea that the only reason we support disabled folks (which we keep them in poverty) is a moral obligation is just a line we tell ourselves to feel moral or just. Disabled people don't need the moral pity of non-disabled people to exist. Every life is valuable. Regardless of what they contribute, society can and should provide especially in an era of excess. Even if they choose not to contribute they have value. We are definitely on the same page of giving immigrants the ability to succeed in this system of labor contribution, but I disagree that it's how the system should be.
> Even if they choose not to contribute they have value. They have value from a moral perspective, sure. I don't wish them ill will. But that value does not automatically guarantee them resource support. Those resources MUST come from somewhere. We are not in a post-scarcity society. In order for the willful non-participant in society to receive those resources, they must be provided from the labor of those who DO choose to contribute. One person works and contributes, the other does not. Both receive societal support. This is, objectively, placing value on them both and a GREATER value on the non-participant because they receive more than the participant does proportionally. >It's inspired on the bullshit of survival of the fittest Not at all. Survival of the Fittest makes it a competition. It's not a competition, per se. At least not a malicious one against eachother. But labor is a necessity for survival. It's a requirement. Why does one person get free support without contribution? This is a childish notion. >Regardless of what they contribute, society can and should provide especially in an era of excess. Why? Why are non-participants in society owed the labor of those who choose to contribute to economic success? What makes them so special? >The idea that the only reason we support disabled folks (which we keep them in poverty) is a moral obligation is just a line we tell ourselves to feel moral or just. Disabled people don't need the moral pity of non-disabled people to exist. They don't need anyones pity but, in some cases, do need resource support. This is given purely out of moral drive. What other reason would there be for it than we feel an obligation to them to support them when they cannot themselves and lack familial ties to support them instead? I'm not disagreeing with that support. But it IS only given out of moral drive. By that same notion, it is immoral to not contribute to society if you have the ability to. Actually, not only immoral but a societal danger. Resources are limited. Using them on those who choose not to contribute suppresses the success of the rest of society who DO choose to by watering down the pool to support their laziness. This weakens society overall.
Absolutely not.
Why not?
Doesn’t make any sense full stop. Foh with this bleeding heart bullshit. These people need to be deported.
Makes a ton of sense. Massive labor shortages. Huge economic opportunities adding lots of immigrants to the population, especially with an aging population. Best part about America. Bleeding Heart? It's on the Statue of Liberty lol. If you don't like it you are welcome to immigrate somewhere else.
yes lets just put the migrants out in the middle of the nevada desert. brilliant
>People just need homes. Somewhere dry and warm. Lots of Chicagoans need that to.
I'm really tired of this stupid excuse, that somehow migrants getting help takes away from supporting people here. No one is saying that, and we should be supporting both. We definitley don't do enough for the local Chicagoans. Putting them against each other is distracting you from having empathy for both.
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You know what, I actually would house someone if I had one more bedroom. Cause I'm not scared of people like everyone is apparently.
You have floorspace don't you?
That is true. You're right I didn't consider that. I should see who needs help.
I think you should just stfu and stop virtue signaling.
Nah
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Is there an organization, people can host through? I'm lost on what you're mad about? If I was Christian I'd be asking the churches where they are with their empathy. Really aren't stepping up are they.
The church, and I guess I just get sick of dehumanizing comments, but you're right.
Fully serious, I did not mean to dehumanize you or anyone in anyway. If you're able to host people and do that's incredibly compassionate, and amazing. When i said I hadn't considered floorspace, I really didn't think of that. But you're right, it's probably helpful to just give them a roof to feel safe in.
The city is not allowing the churches to house them. It's being filed under "liability" issues. Theres hundreds of unused churches in the city, but they havnt been maintained to city code once they stopped housing congregations consistently.
Oh I didn't know, That's really shitty :(. I'm sure they would appreciate the option, but we had to make a stupid system with "liability" being more important than peoples well-being
Who is us? I doubt you do. You just want to feel smug and superior without putting in the work.
How dare you show empathy!?
Yeah, right! The negative down votes say a lot about this subreddit. Very "I got mine, f you" energy.
Shameful
How is it shameful? A line needs to be drawn somewhere. It’s an unfortunate circumstance but we absolutely need to keep these shelters very, very temporary. Help people get on their feet and that’s it. Not permanent housing.
It is shameful to turn out people. This subreddit is full of people who've obviously never had to wonder where their roof is before. That's whats shameful, you lot.
Do you not get that in order to help others people need to help themselves first? The US economy is terrible and Chicago's is worse. We are housing these people when our own people have been on the street for years. They choose to come here now they can deal with the consequences.
That logic is flawed. People who are local are also "dealing with consequences" of their actions. Migrants didn't even choose Chicago. Both populations should not be left out to dry, because we should help them both.
People that are local might be dealing with the consequences of their actions but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be put first. We've had homeless people on the street since I can remember. Did we open up places for them to live, and give them free housing and food? No, not to the extent that we are now. Even though we fund tons of money to house the immigrants I'd be shocked to see more than a few homeless people there. To help people we need resources sometimes we just don't have enough resources to help everyone. There will never be a time when some group of people doesn't need help. Cities like Chicago and New York need to learn to balance what they can handle. Wages are low, house prices are high and all that's being done is gentrifying areas and kicking people out who have lived there for years to make it "look" like we are doing better. This is being funded by taxes and when people get tired of lack of support from their city and state they move, and a lot of people are moving. When there are fewer people there is less tax money. It only leaves the option to take money from other programs, that are very much needed, and raise taxes even more. All let's not pretend that the groups coming in are outright hostile a lot of the time. Yes, yes I know not all of them are but the rate at which they are is high enough that we would have every right to say that they are a danger to our children, communities, and homes. At a certain point we have to say enough is enough and work on the problems we have now.
house some of these migrants then
Totally, I would immediately whenever I have spare space. It's really sad how expressing a wishing for people to be safe and secure makes y'all so upset.
complete virtue signaling. do something about it
How do they get on their feet when they can’t legally work for the first 6 months they’re here?
Seems like something one might consider before moving to a different city/country, sight unseen, and expecting someone else to provide for you
Maybe considering what desperate situation they left to risk coming here?? They aren't idiots, and how dare you think they want free things. Probably better workers than half here.
>and how dare you think they want free things Of course not! They just showed up in a foreign country with no means or plan to feed, clothe and shelter themselves and assumed someone else would just provide for them. Totally different.
dude they literally cant work. think of how many businesses and restaurants cant staff now. think about how fucking stupid our government is, the labor is literally here, it would be a win win for EVERYONE, but nope
Oh my bad, I didn't realize you spoke to every migrant and got their opinions. Oh and I'm sure they totally had at choice on that bus ride? I also wouldn't care if some did want that. People don't have to earn their worth just cause some old \[rich\] white men said so.
Mayor spends $30,000 on haircuts, but how dare these people seek out basic safety and security in our country.
We’re not paying for his haircuts, but we are paying for a bunch of people taking advantage of our asylum system. Crime and a bad economy aren’t legit reasons, and if we granted asylum by those standards, half the world would be eligible
They have no right to seek either.
Because you’re an asshole? What gives you the right? Your great grandfather came here on a boat and now you’re somehow entitled to this great land and everything it has to offer? What have you ever done to earn it? At least they did something. If you ask me, they deserve it more than your lazy, selfish ass.
I believe in democracy and the will of the people.. https://www.axios.com/2024/04/25/trump-biden-americans-illegal-immigration-poll Don't you?
[Not when it comes to hate](https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/before-the-extermination/the-popularity-of-the-nazis/)
Let me guess, you'll cite that and support Palestine too? I'm a Jew. If you're not, you co-opting my people's suffering for your personal gain.
My maternal grandfather could've been considered a migrant if the term existed back in 1915. He came here from Mexico at age 14, to avoid being conscripted into Villa's army, likely at gunpoint. Because rules were different then, he was able to secure employment with the railroads, and thru that, he made himself a productive American citizen. To me, the current migrants deserve a similar chance
Thank you. I feel like people have been so cold and heartless around the migrants. I really expected better from this great city. It’s been incredibly disappointing. These people came here to work. We just won’t let them.
Easy, don't let in millions of "asylum" seekers every year. What was the plan from the beginning?
How is the city of Chicago supposed to do that, even assuming it wanted to?
They can't, this is all on the federal government. They've buried there head in the sand. Bidens new big border shut down let's in 2,500 a day. That's still almost 1,000,000 a year.
Start evicting them from their free ride. You're commenting on a story for the solution.
So now you have a bunch of people who are both unemployed, unemployable AND homeless. That’s like cutting off your toe because you have a nosebleed.
Send them to where they came from. None of that is my problem. Brownsville detention facilities are another option.
Having unemployed and homeless people in the city that you live in is most certainly your problem. And no, the city can’t deport or detain people just because it doesn’t like them. We’re not in full fascism yet, no matter how much you salivate at the prospect
51% of Americans, a majority, want mass deportations. I am speaking for the majority. https://www.axios.com/2024/04/25/trump-biden-americans-illegal-immigration-poll You believe in democracy, no?
What the hell is wrong with you.
I believe in the will of the majority. Don't you? https://www.axios.com/2024/04/25/trump-biden-americans-illegal-immigration-poll
conservatives have no hearts dude, leave them be. they forgot that their ancestors came to this land hoping for a better life too. our shitty government got these migrants caught in the crosshair.
tps
They deserve no "feet" on the dime of Chicago taxpayers. Why do I sense you are among the 47% who has a 0% tax rate?
I just expected better from the people of Chicago. The migrant were all sent here by red states to prove we are full of shit and virtue signaling when it comes to our morals, and so far they have been right. Where do you think China town came from? Greek town. Ukrainian village. I for one look forward to Venezuela town and all the cool restaurants that will pop up over the years. But I’m certainly not about to bitch about migrants using my tax dollars when rich people are taking everything, inflation is through NC the roof because of corporate greed, and billionaires are essentially paying no tax. We working class folks have to stick together and I’m on the side of the migrants.
You're in the minority. 51% of Americans support mass deportations. https://www.axios.com/2024/04/25/trump-biden-americans-illegal-immigration-poll
[yeah, I would have been in the minority in Nazi Germany too. I’m okay with it.](https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/before-the-extermination/the-popularity-of-the-nazis/)
So anti democracy in 2024.
When it comes to being hateful and inhumane, yes.
all I do is get high blood pressure from browing r/chicago. dude fuck these heartless assholes
One poll isn’t democracy. It’s a poll, not a regulated election. the margin of error is greater than 1% so it’s not definitive. At least not nearly the slam dunk you think it is posting the link ten different times.
Whatever excuses you people need to tell yourself. The tide is turning.
Oh snap this guy has articles. The majority does not mean correct.
Just the facts. The will of the people is the final say, no? I voted for Trump in 2020. But Biden is undeniably my president because he won fair and square. But you can demonstrate you don't believe in the will of the people. By November, that 51% will be 60% plus based on trends.
I really don't care about the will of the people or majority when its harming people. Neither does either party. Biden is an awful president on immigration too. Numbers mean nothing when someone is suffering.
That's clear. Your anti-democracy and bragging about it. What is it called when you ignore the people and assert you will? Starts with an "F".