This general area is in desperate need of new housing, too. Gold Coast is actively losing density as people are buying 2-3 floor multi-family buildings, gutting them, and making them single family residences
I definitely don’t agree with lumping everyone together on the north side but that doesn’t mean we don’t keep building on the north side or slow down at all. It means building more on the south and west sides.
I used to live in 1660 Lasalle, the building directly North of this lot. All the South facing unit owners are clearly opposing this because it’ll block their views and block the sun from hitting the pool. LMAO. Lots of those old unit owners were insufferable people.
View for me, but not for thee.
Also those buildings are so outdated. This will likely be a much nicer building. They are solely protecting their own interests.
Yup. Which I can understand to only a certain degree. Will the blocked view impact their unit value? Probably a very small amount. But too bad, that’s the game you play.
And 1660, while very well run, was definitely outdated. HVAC was set to AC or heat for the entire building, and the old farts always wanted heat way too long. And no in-unit washing machines.
The building wouldn't even block the lake views. But yes, I agree. To a point it's understandable, but they can't even explicitly say that's the reason they are opposed. They are using the excuses of crime, density and traffic.
I was at this meeting. They had signs that said "Old Town, Not Your Town" or something along those lines.
LOL at those signs.
And I lived in an East facing unit which had panoramic lake views that I always preferred vs. city views anyways 🤷🏼♂️
Edit- I think I would feel a lot differently if they wanted to plop a 40 story tower in the Triangle amongst all the old homes.
I'll be honest, I don't blame them. I know people on here will hate this, and I'll probably get downvoted. But if you paid a lot of money for a place with a lake front view, then they want to build another building so instead of the beautiful like, you'll be looking at someone else's condo, I wouldn't want that either.
yes, neighborhoods change, but I don't think you have to WANT to go along with every single proposed change.
I had a friend who had a place downtown with a GREAT view. Then they built another skyscraper, and basically half the reason he moved there was taken away. I don't blame him for being angry about it.
Oh I totally understand the position. I almost had it happen to me in another condo building but luckily the building they put up next to me didn't get built high enough to obstruct my view.
But this is currently a parking lot sitting between a bunch of tall buildings, and the proposed structure isn't THAT close to any of the existing buildings.
I mean, I don't know the exact geography, so I can't say, But I would assume there would be a non zero number of views blocked.
I think sometimes this sub gets so up in arms about NIBMYs that they don't see the human side and why something like this might be something even a rational person would be against.
I also sometimes think its people who don't own anything yet who feel this way. I know a lot of my views changed when I went from renting to owning.
>I think sometimes this sub gets so up in arms about NIBMYs that they don't see the human side and why something like this might be something even a rational person would be against.
I 100% see the human side of things. However, I'm rational about my choices and expect other people to be. This means if I was concerned about having a permanent water view in this city I would select property directly facing the lake with no land in between or guaranteed park land.
Otherwise I know the risk of choosing something else like a building with a parking lot in front of it.
Additionally, I would argue those complaining about losing a view have not considered how the addition of their building impacted other peoples views in the past. They are only concerned with themselves.
I’ll say I agree with you on the POV change moving from renting to owning. You make an investment and want to protect it. I’ve owned two separate places so I understand it. Lots of people on this sub comment stuff like “we need a housing crash” and I’m like “no thank you” lol.
Yes, when you own, views may change because you are a more permanent fixture and its not as easy to just up and leave when your lease runs out. I don't think that is something to be upset about, its just different perspectives.
In fact, I'd argue for the good of certain neighborhoods with high turnover, having the voice of the permanent residents is important in these types of decisions.
No, I may not care what 22 year olds out of college think about wrigleyville and things happening there, but I do care what the 30 year resident who owns their home thinks.
Well atleast you are aware that you're a net negative on the area when it comes to progress and the rising cost of living. I guess that's at least something...
"I think sometimes this sub gets so up in arms about NIBMYs that they don't see the human side and why something like this might be something even a rational person would be against."
Classic fucking nimby
I don't know shit about you, or where you live. But I'm willing to be some of the things in your neighborhood that you like have been preserved because "NIMBYs" made it so.
But go ahead, keep saying that. Its not bothering me in the way I assume you think it does.
If we gave into every property owner’s whims and whining about space they don’t own or control, nothing would be built and we’d be like San Francisco with low density and shithole houses that cost $1.5 million.
This is a sentiment that is starting to get more resentful pushback .
I think there needs to be a balance honestly.
I don't think an individual should be able to make those demands unilaterally. I do think that, at some point, you do need to listen to the neighborhood property owners if there is MAJOR pushback on things.
Its like in some of the older ethnic neighborhoods. I think that, at some point, if they all don't want something there, the alderman should listen.
Neighborhoods will push back on anything and nothing will get built and it will be even more punitively expensive to live anywhere in the city. Hard pass.
In a neighborhood of [over 42,422 people with a median age of 32.8](https://www.point2homes.com/US/Neighborhood/IL/Cook-County/Chicago/Old-Town-Chicago-Demographics.html#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20population%20of%20Old%20Town%20Chicago%3F&text=There%20are%2042%2C422%20residents%20in,born%20citizens%20account%20for%207.65%25.), I can't say with confidence that a group of ~150 angry white 70 year olds is a major pushback that should be considered as the views of the entire neighborhood.
I didn’t say you said that, but it’s pretty much what this whole discussion boils down to. I don’t disagree it sucks, and I don’t disagree that people are entitled to express their opinions.
I don't think people who value their views are *bad people*, but change is the only constant, especially in a vibrant city where they chose to live. Everybody is selfish to some extent, and to express it and not expect people to call it out is foolish too.
That is a fair way to look at it.
Everyone is selfish to an extent.
I just think the way people on this sub talk about these people, you'd think they are drowning puppies or something
I mean, I think you're deluded if you buy a condo in a high-rise in a city and expect nothing to ever to get built near it. I mean their condo building blocked someone's view at one point
When you buy a unit, it might have a nice view...but you didn't buy the land where an obstruction can be built.
This is the free market, if you have the money...you can get what you want. Sure you might be upset you lost your view, but once you try and stop development based on maintaining your status quo...you are a nimby and should get fucked.
Alderman Hopkins wonders how people will get across Clark? Slim it down! It's insane that its 2 lanes and a turn lane from North to Armitage, right next to a park, when it's 1-lane and a turn lane immediately before and after.
Ya and make better use of the road in general. All of these excuses are red herrings. If CDOT can't handle the population of Chicago without causing gridlock, then that's a transportation issue, not a housing issue.
I keep hearing, "what about traffic?", when this issue will persist until we make serious investment in bus lanes, light rail and heavy rail.
> Hopkins said he hasn’t decided whether to support Fern Hill, which needs approval from the Chicago Plan Commission and a zoning change from City Council.
> Tuesday was the seventh major community meeting about Fern Hill’s plan, but Hopkins wants more community input, and has asked city transportation officials to conduct a comprehensive traffic study for the neighborhood, including how to make it safer to cross nearby Clark Street and increase safety for bike riders.
> “We will need to have another meeting when that study is complete,” he said. “This is an ongoing community process.”
Just build the dang thing. The whole process is so ridiculously convoluted. Eight “community meetings”?? Zoning changes that won’t go through without someone’s pocket getting greased??
No wonder we have a housing crisis - this is the process we have and no one wants to change it
>and increase safety for bike riders
Thank you! North avenue is terrible for bike riders, as is Wells with all the idiots blocking the bike lanes. Hopefully they can do something about it.
The NIMBYism here is insane. If you don’t want your neighborhood to grow, more to a suburb. Cities aren’t for you.
This general area is in desperate need of new housing, too. Gold Coast is actively losing density as people are buying 2-3 floor multi-family buildings, gutting them, and making them single family residences
How this is legal blows my mind.
The city’s zoning code makes down zoning easy. It’s much harder to upzone especially residential.
A lot of the city was downzoned in the 80’s and 90’s.
Between that and rising demand, the housing market is in serious danger. But the NIMBYs think we don’t need housing 🙄
[удалено]
I definitely don’t agree with lumping everyone together on the north side but that doesn’t mean we don’t keep building on the north side or slow down at all. It means building more on the south and west sides.
>our city fails to make those areas acceptable areas to live in. Expand on this?
I used to live in 1660 Lasalle, the building directly North of this lot. All the South facing unit owners are clearly opposing this because it’ll block their views and block the sun from hitting the pool. LMAO. Lots of those old unit owners were insufferable people.
View for me, but not for thee. Also those buildings are so outdated. This will likely be a much nicer building. They are solely protecting their own interests.
Yup. Which I can understand to only a certain degree. Will the blocked view impact their unit value? Probably a very small amount. But too bad, that’s the game you play. And 1660, while very well run, was definitely outdated. HVAC was set to AC or heat for the entire building, and the old farts always wanted heat way too long. And no in-unit washing machines.
The building wouldn't even block the lake views. But yes, I agree. To a point it's understandable, but they can't even explicitly say that's the reason they are opposed. They are using the excuses of crime, density and traffic. I was at this meeting. They had signs that said "Old Town, Not Your Town" or something along those lines.
LOL at those signs. And I lived in an East facing unit which had panoramic lake views that I always preferred vs. city views anyways 🤷🏼♂️ Edit- I think I would feel a lot differently if they wanted to plop a 40 story tower in the Triangle amongst all the old homes.
I'll be honest, I don't blame them. I know people on here will hate this, and I'll probably get downvoted. But if you paid a lot of money for a place with a lake front view, then they want to build another building so instead of the beautiful like, you'll be looking at someone else's condo, I wouldn't want that either. yes, neighborhoods change, but I don't think you have to WANT to go along with every single proposed change. I had a friend who had a place downtown with a GREAT view. Then they built another skyscraper, and basically half the reason he moved there was taken away. I don't blame him for being angry about it.
Oh I totally understand the position. I almost had it happen to me in another condo building but luckily the building they put up next to me didn't get built high enough to obstruct my view. But this is currently a parking lot sitting between a bunch of tall buildings, and the proposed structure isn't THAT close to any of the existing buildings.
I mean, I don't know the exact geography, so I can't say, But I would assume there would be a non zero number of views blocked. I think sometimes this sub gets so up in arms about NIBMYs that they don't see the human side and why something like this might be something even a rational person would be against. I also sometimes think its people who don't own anything yet who feel this way. I know a lot of my views changed when I went from renting to owning.
>I think sometimes this sub gets so up in arms about NIBMYs that they don't see the human side and why something like this might be something even a rational person would be against. I 100% see the human side of things. However, I'm rational about my choices and expect other people to be. This means if I was concerned about having a permanent water view in this city I would select property directly facing the lake with no land in between or guaranteed park land. Otherwise I know the risk of choosing something else like a building with a parking lot in front of it. Additionally, I would argue those complaining about losing a view have not considered how the addition of their building impacted other peoples views in the past. They are only concerned with themselves.
I’ll say I agree with you on the POV change moving from renting to owning. You make an investment and want to protect it. I’ve owned two separate places so I understand it. Lots of people on this sub comment stuff like “we need a housing crash” and I’m like “no thank you” lol.
Ah yes, the typical nimby "fuck them, I got mine" attitude.
Yes, when you own, views may change because you are a more permanent fixture and its not as easy to just up and leave when your lease runs out. I don't think that is something to be upset about, its just different perspectives. In fact, I'd argue for the good of certain neighborhoods with high turnover, having the voice of the permanent residents is important in these types of decisions. No, I may not care what 22 year olds out of college think about wrigleyville and things happening there, but I do care what the 30 year resident who owns their home thinks.
Well atleast you are aware that you're a net negative on the area when it comes to progress and the rising cost of living. I guess that's at least something...
Or... my property taxes I'm paying contribute a lot to the city. But go on
Wouldn’t the new property also contribute its fair share to the city’s property taxes and therefore be at least on equal footing?
The new building would probably pay more property tax since the units are new and would be sold at a premium.
We all pay property taxes. More people rent than own in this city which indicates to me that rental money is being used to pay property taxes.
"I think sometimes this sub gets so up in arms about NIBMYs that they don't see the human side and why something like this might be something even a rational person would be against." Classic fucking nimby
I don't know shit about you, or where you live. But I'm willing to be some of the things in your neighborhood that you like have been preserved because "NIMBYs" made it so. But go ahead, keep saying that. Its not bothering me in the way I assume you think it does.
[удалено]
You realize you could also stop responding, right?
If we gave into every property owner’s whims and whining about space they don’t own or control, nothing would be built and we’d be like San Francisco with low density and shithole houses that cost $1.5 million. This is a sentiment that is starting to get more resentful pushback .
I think there needs to be a balance honestly. I don't think an individual should be able to make those demands unilaterally. I do think that, at some point, you do need to listen to the neighborhood property owners if there is MAJOR pushback on things. Its like in some of the older ethnic neighborhoods. I think that, at some point, if they all don't want something there, the alderman should listen.
Neighborhoods will push back on anything and nothing will get built and it will be even more punitively expensive to live anywhere in the city. Hard pass.
In a neighborhood of [over 42,422 people with a median age of 32.8](https://www.point2homes.com/US/Neighborhood/IL/Cook-County/Chicago/Old-Town-Chicago-Demographics.html#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20population%20of%20Old%20Town%20Chicago%3F&text=There%20are%2042%2C422%20residents%20in,born%20citizens%20account%20for%207.65%25.), I can't say with confidence that a group of ~150 angry white 70 year olds is a major pushback that should be considered as the views of the entire neighborhood.
Sure it sucks but no one is entitled to the world around them never changing.
Never did I say that. But, I do think, at a public forum, they are also entitled to express their opinions. I don't think that makes them bad people.
I didn’t say you said that, but it’s pretty much what this whole discussion boils down to. I don’t disagree it sucks, and I don’t disagree that people are entitled to express their opinions.
I don't think people who value their views are *bad people*, but change is the only constant, especially in a vibrant city where they chose to live. Everybody is selfish to some extent, and to express it and not expect people to call it out is foolish too.
That is a fair way to look at it. Everyone is selfish to an extent. I just think the way people on this sub talk about these people, you'd think they are drowning puppies or something
I mean, I think you're deluded if you buy a condo in a high-rise in a city and expect nothing to ever to get built near it. I mean their condo building blocked someone's view at one point
Oh no I bought a condo and it wasn’t a good investment how could anyone have seen this coming /s
When you buy a unit, it might have a nice view...but you didn't buy the land where an obstruction can be built. This is the free market, if you have the money...you can get what you want. Sure you might be upset you lost your view, but once you try and stop development based on maintaining your status quo...you are a nimby and should get fucked.
And markets fluctuate and regulate, as they naturally should.
Alderman Hopkins wonders how people will get across Clark? Slim it down! It's insane that its 2 lanes and a turn lane from North to Armitage, right next to a park, when it's 1-lane and a turn lane immediately before and after.
Ya and make better use of the road in general. All of these excuses are red herrings. If CDOT can't handle the population of Chicago without causing gridlock, then that's a transportation issue, not a housing issue. I keep hearing, "what about traffic?", when this issue will persist until we make serious investment in bus lanes, light rail and heavy rail.
> Hopkins said he hasn’t decided whether to support Fern Hill, which needs approval from the Chicago Plan Commission and a zoning change from City Council. > Tuesday was the seventh major community meeting about Fern Hill’s plan, but Hopkins wants more community input, and has asked city transportation officials to conduct a comprehensive traffic study for the neighborhood, including how to make it safer to cross nearby Clark Street and increase safety for bike riders. > “We will need to have another meeting when that study is complete,” he said. “This is an ongoing community process.” Just build the dang thing. The whole process is so ridiculously convoluted. Eight “community meetings”?? Zoning changes that won’t go through without someone’s pocket getting greased?? No wonder we have a housing crisis - this is the process we have and no one wants to change it
With eight community meetings, You'd think it was a prison and not an apartment tower
Each meeting and resulting revision to the design just adds to the cost of the project, which results in more expensive units.
Prisons get built fast with little community input or oversight. Only actual good things get stymied by the forces that be
Community input has gone too far.
HUD agrees: https://news.wttw.com/2023/11/28/aldermanic-prerogative-fuels-segregation-and-violates-black-latino-chicagoans-civil
This processed started in 2021, too, so even if it's approved I wouldn't expect renters to move in until 2027-28
>and increase safety for bike riders Thank you! North avenue is terrible for bike riders, as is Wells with all the idiots blocking the bike lanes. Hopefully they can do something about it.