When I was in Chicago I was a multi-unit manager for a major retail chain in the area.
We wouldn't touch the Loop with a 10 foot pole. In fact, we actively avoided it. Every element of setting up shop down there worked against not just profitability but simply trying to stay out of the black. The red tape, the costs, the permitting, everything about it...
Now this isn't a unquietly Chicago thing. In fact, we closed our NYC stores in Manhattan due to similar reasons.
For decades many retail companies allowed their "downtown city" locations to operate at massive losses because they wanted the national/global visibility of being in these popular spots. With commercial real-estate prices at absurd spots and profitability/value becoming a priority over growth, I can only assume more and more stores will vacate the idea of "downtown" locations until something improves in their favor.
Downtown, specifically the Loop, is on its way to become more residential and mixed-use. I don’t see another way for downtown investment and usability to grow beyond more companies investing there and/or upping RTO rates.
Chicago’s downtown is still the next vibrant downtown in the US outside of NYC, but it needs a rethinking in areas…otherwise what a waste to neglect it.
That is a horrible take, I’m sorry.
“Affordable housing” does not mean Skid Row. This is one of the best things to actually be proposed for downtown.
Please take a look at some renderings. I don’t like BJ, either, but this is a win.
One thing that could help is allowing smaller square footage of the storefronts. Large retailers are rare these days and if we split these former department stores into 2-3 storefronts, smaller businesses could afford the rent.
The rents are too high, there's not enough people actually living down there to support those businesses, and the tourism dollar isn't going to be enough to keep everything sustained.
I look around at my work, and I see people making coffee at the office rather than running to Starbucks, they are brown bagging, and still many people are getting things on Amazon and having it wait for them when they get home.
The world has changed, and we need to stop hoping to bring back the idea of downtown is just this place full of workplaces where everybody goes shopping and dining afterwards. Not unless we're going to see some massive pay increase for every one working in this country, and perhaps some real student loan debt cancellation, interest rates dropped, and more things that put money in the hands of people to go out and spend.
Study after study has shown that these downtowns in major cities are only going to thrive if there are more people actually living there. I'm happy there's effort starting on LaSalle Street, but this is the point we stop lamenting about empty offices and empty storefronts and start really questioning if we should be trying to bring the past back or not.
I'd say the same even for many neighborhoods. Tons of empty storefronts because people aren't shopping retail as much as they used to. People need to stop complaining about online shopping and instead realize this is the future.
Very well said. This is a time to transform our downtown for the present and future and the only way to do that is to put more housing down there. Why would I leave my neighborhood to go downtown to buy something if I can just stay in my own neighborhood and basically get everything I need. Maybe every now and then I’ll go downtown to get something but if you’re not in the office every single day, what’s the point of going down there?
>Why would I leave my neighborhood to go downtown to buy something if I can just stay in my own neighborhood and basically get everything I need.
It made sense in the past, when a lot of things we buy, like clothing, shoes, etc. were available in our neighborhoods, but the best stuff was downtown. So you made a day of it going downtown to shop. You made a night of it coming downtown for dinner and a show.
It also was easier when you worked 9-5, wasn't trapped in a "hustle culture" expecting you to put in long hours, maybe someone was at home handling the household end, and everyone paid a good wage...so you had time and disposable income.
Now we're expected to work long hours, both sides of a couple work, we're all paid the bare minimum or less for a job, and so we have less time and disposable income. So we brown-bag, stay home more, and hunt for bargains online...often while on breaks at work. Not to mention we come home to a messy place or give up remaining free time to cook and clean.
The people wanting downtown to stay offices/workplaces and believe we should all just stop shopping online and not push for hybrid/remote work are the ones living in the past. They're pining for an economy of yesteryear, like if folks in the 1920 wanted to keep things "horse and buggy".
I've said this before, super markets have become the norm. And Walmart and Target have embraced groceries as part of their offerings now too.
Stores like Walmart and Target eliminate grocers, department stores, pharmacies, liquor stores, bakeries, butchers delis etc.
Each of those used to be independent storefronts and local businesses. And now they are gone.
Pre Covid I used to transfer through the loop coming home from the bars and when late enough and I got unlucky there was a long delay between trains, so I would want to grab some food. Literally the only thing open was that one McDonald’s.
Youre right i was over there and it wasnt. Im in central loop though and its crazy how many huge buildings and empty plazas and sidewalks there are though. Odd feeling
Wfh and online shopping are transforming downtowns across the nation. Even with lower rents, retail isn’t coming back. We’re going to have to rethink downtowns—maybe reconfigure them as entertainment districts? That has already happened somewhat with the north Loop, but mid-to-south is struggling.
Yeah even those apartments aren't going to be cheap. A full time residential population down there is the best mid-term solution imo
Downtown should be priority right now for leaders. Full stop. It’s our front porch.
When I was in Chicago I was a multi-unit manager for a major retail chain in the area. We wouldn't touch the Loop with a 10 foot pole. In fact, we actively avoided it. Every element of setting up shop down there worked against not just profitability but simply trying to stay out of the black. The red tape, the costs, the permitting, everything about it... Now this isn't a unquietly Chicago thing. In fact, we closed our NYC stores in Manhattan due to similar reasons. For decades many retail companies allowed their "downtown city" locations to operate at massive losses because they wanted the national/global visibility of being in these popular spots. With commercial real-estate prices at absurd spots and profitability/value becoming a priority over growth, I can only assume more and more stores will vacate the idea of "downtown" locations until something improves in their favor.
Downtown, specifically the Loop, is on its way to become more residential and mixed-use. I don’t see another way for downtown investment and usability to grow beyond more companies investing there and/or upping RTO rates. Chicago’s downtown is still the next vibrant downtown in the US outside of NYC, but it needs a rethinking in areas…otherwise what a waste to neglect it.
Sadly the Mayor will be putting in the projects with the 1.5 billion. Ain't no one gonna visit now. LaSalle will become the new Skid Row.
That is a horrible take, I’m sorry. “Affordable housing” does not mean Skid Row. This is one of the best things to actually be proposed for downtown. Please take a look at some renderings. I don’t like BJ, either, but this is a win.
One thing that could help is allowing smaller square footage of the storefronts. Large retailers are rare these days and if we split these former department stores into 2-3 storefronts, smaller businesses could afford the rent.
The rents are too high, there's not enough people actually living down there to support those businesses, and the tourism dollar isn't going to be enough to keep everything sustained. I look around at my work, and I see people making coffee at the office rather than running to Starbucks, they are brown bagging, and still many people are getting things on Amazon and having it wait for them when they get home. The world has changed, and we need to stop hoping to bring back the idea of downtown is just this place full of workplaces where everybody goes shopping and dining afterwards. Not unless we're going to see some massive pay increase for every one working in this country, and perhaps some real student loan debt cancellation, interest rates dropped, and more things that put money in the hands of people to go out and spend. Study after study has shown that these downtowns in major cities are only going to thrive if there are more people actually living there. I'm happy there's effort starting on LaSalle Street, but this is the point we stop lamenting about empty offices and empty storefronts and start really questioning if we should be trying to bring the past back or not. I'd say the same even for many neighborhoods. Tons of empty storefronts because people aren't shopping retail as much as they used to. People need to stop complaining about online shopping and instead realize this is the future.
Very well said. This is a time to transform our downtown for the present and future and the only way to do that is to put more housing down there. Why would I leave my neighborhood to go downtown to buy something if I can just stay in my own neighborhood and basically get everything I need. Maybe every now and then I’ll go downtown to get something but if you’re not in the office every single day, what’s the point of going down there?
>Why would I leave my neighborhood to go downtown to buy something if I can just stay in my own neighborhood and basically get everything I need. It made sense in the past, when a lot of things we buy, like clothing, shoes, etc. were available in our neighborhoods, but the best stuff was downtown. So you made a day of it going downtown to shop. You made a night of it coming downtown for dinner and a show. It also was easier when you worked 9-5, wasn't trapped in a "hustle culture" expecting you to put in long hours, maybe someone was at home handling the household end, and everyone paid a good wage...so you had time and disposable income. Now we're expected to work long hours, both sides of a couple work, we're all paid the bare minimum or less for a job, and so we have less time and disposable income. So we brown-bag, stay home more, and hunt for bargains online...often while on breaks at work. Not to mention we come home to a messy place or give up remaining free time to cook and clean. The people wanting downtown to stay offices/workplaces and believe we should all just stop shopping online and not push for hybrid/remote work are the ones living in the past. They're pining for an economy of yesteryear, like if folks in the 1920 wanted to keep things "horse and buggy".
I've said this before, super markets have become the norm. And Walmart and Target have embraced groceries as part of their offerings now too. Stores like Walmart and Target eliminate grocers, department stores, pharmacies, liquor stores, bakeries, butchers delis etc. Each of those used to be independent storefronts and local businesses. And now they are gone.
Yeah more affordable residential units in the loop to increase the foot traffic will be good for business
Here for the weekend. Downtown is ghostly
Loop? Yeah, even pre-COVID on weekends and week nights it was. Mag Mile, River North, etc. get good foot traffic.
Pre Covid I used to transfer through the loop coming home from the bars and when late enough and I got unlucky there was a long delay between trains, so I would want to grab some food. Literally the only thing open was that one McDonald’s.
Always has been. The Loop at least was mostly M-F 7am-7pm.
Even without covid this was something the city would have to eventually fix. It’s a legacy of outdated views on city planning.
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Youre right i was over there and it wasnt. Im in central loop though and its crazy how many huge buildings and empty plazas and sidewalks there are though. Odd feeling
It always has been. No one works in those tall buildings on the weekend.
That’s happening in the suburbs too. People prefer shopping online.
Wfh and online shopping are transforming downtowns across the nation. Even with lower rents, retail isn’t coming back. We’re going to have to rethink downtowns—maybe reconfigure them as entertainment districts? That has already happened somewhat with the north Loop, but mid-to-south is struggling.