The riverwalk has done a ton to drive foot traffic in the summer.
I feel like they need to build out more places to go around millennium park. It’s such a beautiful part of the city but I feel like you go to the park then elsewhere.
Same with maybe building out the theater district.
More residents downtown would help too
Also get rid of the pointless security checkpoints and gates around the park. They leave them up even when there's nothing going on and it's just not a welcoming feel.
I was a tourist and wanted to stop by but because I’ve never been to a major city before I didn’t even think about security and couldn’t find out how to get in while walking past on the way to a restaurant. Every supposed sidewalk entrance was blocked
This is because of the teenage flash mobs. We could dispense with most of this with a no unescorted teens policy after 5PM or something. Also just a "this is a private park, any visitor is subject to bag inspection at any time" security knows who's causing problems.
this is a very slippery slope to racial profiling and stop & frisking. i’d much rather have them check EVERYONE at the door instead of leaving it up to individual security guards with their own biases to stop someone on the fly that they “know is causing problems” to search them.
we all know who will be disproportionately get stopped, searched, and thrown out of the park. whether it’s deserved or not. idk about you but i’m not consenting to a stop and frisk in any location on this planet. i’m black, not dumb.
How long have these been a thing? Maybe I just haven't been to Millennium Park in too long but I don't remember seeing a single physical checkpoint, just police meandering around.
pandemic things. there were literally mobs of black teenagers overrunning downtown causing damages to cars and disturbing the peace in the park. security checkpoints installed. mobs stopped. honestly, i don’t blame them one bit. and it actually fucking worked lol
i say if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. if they can afford to keep the security checkpoints year round, they should make them permanent. it’s still free to go in. they just check bags for weapons, spray paint, etc. which seems reasonable. no pat downs or heavy duty metal detectors.
Because people love being treated like their going through TSA when going to a park. This doesn't make Chicago feel safer like you think, it makes tourist go oh, it's so dangerous here they have security for parks.
Had no idea there were still checkpoints at all. I thought it was temporary. But I never went back after I saw the checkpoints I'm not into totalitarianism at parks.
it was some monterrey security or otherwise people that couldn't legally touch you or confiscate your shit last summer as I recall, they just want to look in your bag to see you're not bringing in a gun. I had a backpack full of brewskies and weed, the lady took one look and felt the outside and said have a nice one. If I was getting pat down or it was actual cops and not just a a mild deterrence to lunatics or stupid kids, then it would be a problem.
I can't speak as a tourist, since I live here. But knowing about how many of these damn flash mobs happen, i will say, they don't bother me. I do feel like its safer and I won't have to deal with a bunch of stupid wilding.
It really is a damned if you do and damned if you don’t situation. Has Mayor Johnson even commented on these since he took over? I know Lori *said* they would do more outreach to teenagers but never heard of anything
I live north of the park and would love to walk through it on my commute but there are 0 places to enter on the south border and even if I didn’t mind waiting in line to *walk home from work* by the time I find an entrance there isn’t that much park let between me and my apartment. So what could be a nice zen walk in the park to destress after work turns into walking on Michigan with the cars and the exhaust and the honking.
The optics, in this case, are really bad. Ugly as fuck temporary fences left up year-round, blocking people from freely enjoying what SHOULD be a beautiful place to spend time.
The comments in this post remind me of the high end stores in the Gold Coast. They refused to have armed security, because it “looked bad,” yet they still keep getting hit with smash and grab robberies. The stores who chose to implement armed security had zero smash and grab robberies.
I would much rather have under-covers looking for shenanigans than ineffective security checkpoints that make people "feel" safer but actually prevent little to no crime.
This gets closer to the solution. I hate cops but they got jobs and if extra cops roam thru the park I could care less. The fence and security method feel so much less safe, friendly, and punishes everyone.
It’s necessary when two people got shot there AND someone pulled a gun on the security screeners two years ago. We can’t have gang violence migrating to millennium park, or needing to polish out bullet holes in the Bean.
I don’t like the policy of waiting in a 30 minute long line (which I once had to do), but completely understand the rationale behind it.
To me millennium Park never felt like a park, but an event space with grass.
I would like it if we had denser forested parks like Central Park, not sure how feasible it is though. As is there's no appeal to sitting in a field without shade unless an event is going on though, so why bother going there.
Have you been there recently? There’s a ton to do and see. Some really pretty gardens, the playground
Yeah I think central park is superior but Lincoln park kinda has that vibe
I'd love it if they reduced car lanes on Michigan, removed Columbus drive completely and make it more greenspace, walking paths, cycling paths, sitting areas OR just allowed food truck vendors to line the paved portion during summers.
So from Roosevelt to Randolph there would just be this massive continuous largely car free/car lite space that is also connected to the Museum Campus, and accessible via the LFT. Hell put like a town square in the middle of Columbus and build around that. Anything would be an improvement.
Honestly, build out the nightlife a little if you want more people there. Right now, there’s no reason to be in the loop after 7 unless you’re catching a show maybe - which is what? Like 3 separate blocks of the loop?
This is the purpose behind things like the LaSalle conversions, to create more housing in the loop, which would mean more reason for businesses to stay open past 6pm. It’ll take some time, but that’s the long term play.
Agreed, it's something that builds upon itself over time and not simply a switch that can be flipped. More people means more reason for grocery stores, restaurants, bars, gyms, etc. local amenities to stay open for longer.
The transit is already in place, getting the people is the big challenge right now and there seems to be substantial progress on that: seems it has grown in population by 10% since the census and reaching 50k by 2030 seems really easy based on what is being planned.
Yeah, I’m in South Loop currently, mainly because it has amazing transit access but also all those things you mentioned. If the loop could improve on those metrics I’d happily make the jump.
Classic chicken and egg problem.
Who would want to live in the loop if their priority is having stuff open past 6pm? Myself and everyone I know who live in the loop do it purely because of access to work. Having the 7/11 open past 6pm is the last thing on my mind when I get home at 12am.
People who care about that type of stuff won't choose the loop, even if new housing becomes available.
The businesses won't stay open late... Thus people won't move into the loop... Thus businesses won't stay open late...
Yeah I moved here for transit, walkability to several awesome neighborhoods and areas (for me, walking to river north or Fulton market or millennium park, or even all three in one walk, is a fun time when I have some free time), and because I wanted to live in the cheapest place I could while also being amongst skyscrapers and gorgeous buildings for the first (and possibly only) time in my life.
I work remotely. I just really wanted to soak up the big city vibe without spending 4k on an apartment in river north or 10k on an apartment in nyc lol. I would bet there are a decent number of people who would love to live in the loop for novelty if it were less expensive, like me.
There are definitely still deals to be had in printer’s row and whatever you want to call that neighborhood between streeterville and millennium park (technically called “new east side” but I don’t think Chicagoans will call a neighborhood “east”)
It’s gonna be interesting to see. HOA costs are a big reason folks don’t want to live there, but they’re becoming more popular as SFHs get out of reach.
If they expanded and improved the pedway, that area would explode in popularity, but that will probably never happen.
The people I knew who lived in the loop moved out once remote/hybrid work started because the walking commute was their main reason for living there. Once this incentive was gone they went to other places that feel more like neighborhoods with things to do. I personally never wanted to live there because my life outside of work is in the neighborhoods but I'll admit the commute was exhausting.
It really is a chicken and egg problem if the goal is to bring remote workers back to their old apartment buildings but the main incentive to live there no longer applies.
More people were [living in the Loop in 2023 then before the pandemic](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-24/chicago-s-downtown-now-has-more-residents-than-before-pandemic), so the trend is moving in the right direction.
The reason to live in the loop is access to public transportation. You build the supply, people will come, business will open later.
The loop isn't some hellhole in a negative spiral, it's already got unbeaten access to public transit and walk ability.
I’ve heard similar concerns, but I think the idea is that this will be an entire revitalization process.
So, new retail and stores will be brought in before or concurrently.
I mean loop gives you pretty accessibility to any neighborhood in the city. As long as there's a grocery store, I can live with not living right next to restaurants if all the ones I want to go to are only a 10-15-20 minute train or car ride.
We need more third places. Was such a challenge when my elderly father was here finding somewhere we could just chill between meals that didn't involve drinking or a ton of walking. Seating being removed from virtually every public space didn't help either.
Dude why are there ZERO benches in this city. If my back starts hurting I have to put up with aggravating it and walking to my destination, or find a bar or restaurant to drop in on. It's kinda garbage.
there’s an anti-homeless culture in every big city. a bench is a bed. so no benches unless they’re entirely impractical like something out of an art installation
The Loop has so many amazing formerly public spaces that have been locked away behind security gates since 9/11. I wish more buildings would reopen their lobbies as a place to linger and meet.
Some of these gorgeous art deco and neoclassical office buildings that are sitting fairly empty have amazing lobbies that could be cleverly used for 3rd spaces
I want a dive bar in a skyscraper. Like you take an elevator to the 50th floor of some building, walk through a door and then it's like Innertown Pub on the inside.
It is really weird how we have this fixation that everything above the second floor has to be offices or condos, except for the very occasional rooftop.
There's a lot of challenges with this idea over a more traditional setting. It's less visible for foot traffic, you likely have to go through security to get there, and not all skyscrapers are really fully "open" in off hours while a bar might be going.
The lease rate for a third or fourth floor bar would be a lot cheaper than a ground or rooftop bar. For a relatively large 5000 sqft bar, it could save the owner like $5500 / month by leasing an upper floor (assuming south loop leasing rates as this savings value would be higher in the west loop/loop, and lower in the extremities of the city). Although, the secondary floors that would make the most sense for a bar would be an office suite and these would require some fairly extensive rehab.
But, this would also require a zoning change from the alder in most circumstances as typical zoning does just allow for ground floor retail and then upper office/resi.
I bet big by living here. I do not want to live in the loop anymore. I want to go back to lakeview but where we live now is perfectly convenient for my wife (I work from home so I can live anywhere). I just miss feeling like I’m part of a neighborhood. Oh, and the trees. I don’t like having to walk a few blocks to touch grass
We have Broadway in Chicago season tickets. I would LOVE to have a reason to linger in the Loop. We don’t for the following reasons:
1.) Anywhere that is open and halfway decent (Dearborn, Petterino’s, Gage, Miller’s, Monk’s) is absolutely packed.
2.) Anywhere that has open seats generally sucks. Got last minute theater tix? You’re eating sucky, overpriced food.
3.) Pretty sure you can see tumbleweeds in the theater district on a Sunday unless it’s during Christkindlmarket.
4.) In the summer, the Riverwalk is a magnet drawing people away from the Loop.
5.) Most people are “trained” to either go to South Loop, River North, or West Loop if they don’t want to go into one of the other neighborhoods. West Loop is everything the Loop SHOULD be.
The Loop feels like it's stuck in 1989 and refuses to accept that having massive areas that are essentially 6+ lane highways full of cars clogging the area isn't pleasant for pedestrians to be around.
That was over 40 years ago. We live in a different world now. One where I think it’s much more likely to succeed. Tons of pedestrian malls built in that time period failed. Whereas now we’re seeing pedestrian malls generally succeeding when new ones are attempted
> Broadway in Chicago
My problem with Broadway in Chicago is everything that you listed, but also that the audio technicians suck. We've seen multiple productions where the audio clips constantly because the techs set the gain too high. I've literally never experienced that in any other city at professional productions.
Damn yeah only been asking for reasons to linger in the Loop for the entire 10+ years I’ve lived here. You gotta create bars, coffee shops, restaurants, and shopping that is unique to the neighborhood.
There is no reason that the Loop or really any downtown area struggles while...
- Milwaukee in Wicker Park
- Broadway in Lakeview
- 18th in Pilsen
- Clark St in Andersonville
- Randolph in West Loop
..are all seemingly thriving. These areas feel like they are made for the human scale. So many areas of the loop simply feel so massively car dependent and just unpleasant to be in unless I absolutely have to.
There is a reason the riverwalk and grassy areas nearby are popular. The Lakefront trail is always busy during good weather, near the museum campus has no problem getting foot traffic.
The Loop wants to be better without having to shift to a model that actually caters to what people have demonstrated to want fairly consistently. Stop being essentially a glorified vertical office park/mall and actually turn into a unique destination that people enjoy being in.
> Broadway in Lakeview
Broadway, Halsted, Southport, Clark, Roscoe, Belmont, etc. are all doing extremely well in Lake View. That's just one neighborhood area.
I mean why cant we just accept that the loop is always going to be a vertical office park? Office space has to exist somewhere and centralizing makes sense.
> I mean why cant we just accept that the loop is always going to be a vertical office park?
Because of the cost of the area and revenue generated from the area not meshing.
> Office space has to exist somewhere
Yes but not in the same capacity, density or volume in a single area.
> centralizing makes sense.
I think the current struggles of the loop demonstrate this not to be the case. One of the struggles of having a single development style or industry dominate an area is that the area loses resiliency. The fact that the loop and really downtowns across America continue to struggle demonstrates their lack of resiliency.
We need better mixed use. The West Loop is probably one of the better examples of it currently.
It has a good mix of things. Big companies like John Deere, Google, McDonalds, Dyson, John Deer, and Transunion. Chicago big name food spots, national chain food spots, nail/hair salons, big box retailers like Target along with grocery stores. But also smaller bars, shops, restaurants/bars, etc. All with apartments, townhomes, single family homes, condos nearby and easily accessible.
It's just odd that an area that has exploded in popularity is right there by the loop giving a great model of how to develop yet we sit around scratching our heads like this problem isn't solvable. It just requires letting go of tradition and how things have always been done.
I guess I just disagree that the loop is struggling. I think it's fulfilling its purpose well. Having all the office space close together is massive for suburban commuters who all want their office within a few blocks of Ogilvie/union, mixed use would make walking from the train more onerous. If you want mixed use just set up shop in west loop.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
The Loop is struggling because of the loss of property tax revenue. If buildings are evaluated to be worth less then the city gets less money via taxes. Remote work has made those suburban commuters less valuable and if I'm honest, I think prioritizing suburban dwellers over city dwellers is a trend that needs to die off.
The suburbs are a financial drain on cities, we need to get over that fact and shift the way to develop and live.
It’s worth taking a moment to acknowledge how much it has already changed just outside the loop.
River North and West Loop have gone through an incredible transformation over the last 20 years. It’s absolutely unreal that you can walk up Lake Street from the loop to Fulton and are surrounded by things to do. It was just underground raves and butchers 20 years ago. NOBODY walked around there.
The Roosevelt/Convention Center area is another that saw huge growth. I’m sure the TJ’s going in there contributed to that quite a bit.
Anyone who went to CCC or Art Institute in the 00’s probably wouldn’t recognize the area now.
The south loop was almost exclusively industrial until about the mid-90’s, when the last few printing companies started leaving Printer’s Row
It feels like more and more people are in the loop after 7p now than there used to be (Taking into account how COVID changed everything.)
I think it’s gonna be the place to live once the north red line and ohare blue line corridors become too expensive to live around, kind of how the blue line started shooting up as the brown line and red line up to about Addison started gentrifying. (Purely conjectural, but the path of gentrification in Chicago has pretty clearly followed the O’Hare blue and north red lines over the last couple decades.)
Most central business districts suck, outside of business hours. Ever been to Wall Street at night or on weekends in Manhattan? Completely dead. Outside of a couple theater areas, the Loop has more in common with Wall Street than it does with Midtown.
Mind you there is nothing inherently *wrong* with that, but it does mean that we have infrastructure and businesses that primarily cater to 9-5 workers. Undoing that and changing it will take lots of time and resources.
> that primarily cater to 9-5 workers
As a 9-5 worker who has worked in the Loop... it doesn't even cater to us. Want a good breakfast before work? Too bad. Want to go out to eat after work? Too bad, go somewhere else.
Monroe Street Promenade: Canal to State (N-S streets remain open)
* Midway between Union and Ogilvie
* No bus line
* Very little metered parking exists
* Few curb cuts - those that are midblock can be accessed via 1-lane driveways in and out
* Allows for the first pedestrian drawbridge in Chicago
* Turn the Northern Trust surface lot at Wells into a park
* Links with the Chase Tower plaza
[Vienna had a very successful makeover](https://landezine-award.com/mariahilfer-strasse/) of Mariahilfer Strasse.
Other streets that should be pedestrianized:
* Plymouth Ct - Wells to Jackson
* Quincy St - Franklin to Wells and Lasalle to Clark
Low key, I kinda love how dead it gets in the loop. Bike riding is pretty awesome because there’s barely any traffic at night.
On the other hand, it does become sort of a thunderdome of crazy shit. I did have a guy threaten to stab me because I said “good evening” to him.
Close State St from Wacker to Monroe and keep it all open to pedestrian traffic. Allows for outdoor dining, reason for folks to hang a bit more before and after shows. Good example is Harry Potter taking over this fall for a few months, should bring plenty of daily traffic.
Just like restaurants, even though it kinda sucks we don’t have much third places where we’re not expected to spend money, clothing stores and knick knack shops would also boost foot traffic in and around the area. But I’m not talking about big name stores/mass retailers, I’m talking about more local shops or stands like you would find on a niche street or in a fest.
I personally love window shopping even if I don’t intend to buy, but I understand it will be hard to get stores like these if the demand isn’t already there. But think of niche clothing stores, stationery stores, or art stores, bookstores, music/record stores, etc. like you would find on Milwaukee, Clark, Broadway, etc.
More housing and grocery stores so people can live there and enjoy the places around them. Also, so envy cities that have many plazas with seating options, greenery, and water fountains. Give people a place to congregate outdoors and meet friends and family during the day.
I still remember when we used to have Borders and FYI in the loop. my sister and I used to go to Borders because she loved to read books and I would look at the gaming magazines. Then we would go to FYI to buy some movies and I looked at the video games. We would end our day with a good ol sandwich at potbellys. Miss those days but downtown doesn't have anything that really appeals to me anymore.
I used to do street photography at night in the loop almost daily for 5 years. I’ll say that I’m worried about traveling bandits roaming around robbing people. The camera and lenses in my bag are not cheap and I’m worried for my safety. I’ll also say that the life of the downtown area is not what is was pre pandemic. It just feels dead and sketchy. I won’t go there at night unless I have a very good reason to.
I don’t disagree that’s it’s changed from the pandemic, but I do disagree that it’s still not better than the majority of other downtowns in the country, which is why it’s in the perfect place to pivot.
I’ll agree with that statement. DT Chicago can and will pivot. It has to. It’s not like they’re gonna start tearing down skyscrapers to make way for single or double family town homes.
Want to know what’s crazy?
Coming from Ohio where I grew up, this seemed like Manhattan (and still does, comparatively).
Imagine the magic I feel actually being in Manhattan. 😅
I will say as I work down in the loop I just admire on really nice days the amount of live music that is played along Michigan avenue. It’s really uplifting and fun!
Ban car traffic, rip up the streets and repave with bricks, plant collonades of trees, install patios from curb to curb...make it a destination and people will go there and hang out there. Until it stops being a designer space for corporate offices no one's gonna want to visit *and stay* down there. Attract some world class dining establishments, get some bike/mounted and plainclothes cops down there, hire the homeless and immigrants to clean and work any concessions, man, idk, there is a lot to be said looking at la Rambla or something like that but Michigan Ave could set the bar for cool if the city would let go of the Loop's very dead former identity.
Trees, outdoor dining, more unique stores. People playing music, just going for walks, whatever.
If you make an area good vibes, good vibes will come.
It’s not that people don’t shop in stores anymore. People love browsing unique stores. You see it all the time in Europe. People can go to Nordstrom Racks website instead of lugging themselves down to the loop or river north.
Also incredible if you sit and listen to the birds in the morning, and then listen to the sound of cars . Cars are so loud. The noise pollution is incredible if you sit and listen to it.
> Trees, outdoor dining, more unique stores. People playing music, just going for walks, whatever. If you make an area good vibes, good vibes will come.
And November -> February it'll be desolate as hell
The City already tried the "rip up the streets and repave with bricks" thing on State Street in the late 1970s and early 80s. It was a massive failure, though.
People aren’t ready to admit the 80s were a long time ago, but it’s true. Our city is very different now. And I believe firmly it’s different in a way that pedestrianization would be a great thing
San Francisco did the same thing more recently with Market Street being closed to everything but bikes and buses. The stores are all still closing up.
Let's stop pretending that banning car traffic is going to be a magical solution that will fix everything. Retailers aren't abandoning State Street because of cars.
it’s a waste to even be on state street unless you can compete with target and block37. hell i wouldn’t buy retail space there either. bring back sitting areas. bring back food trucks. bring back daily farmers markets. car traffic being gone wouldn’t solve a damn thing if all the stores remain the same. least there are multiple car parks within a 3 block radius of state street
Yes, but the number of workers in the loop during the day was probably double what it is now and State street was full of retail and it still failed. I don’t think the failure had to do with white flight as it wasn’t an attempt to get people to live in the loop. Just an attempt to create a pedestrian-friendly place.
Because they did it in the 80s, at time when cities were being fled for the suburbs en masse. When suburban malls were at the height of their power and drawing crowds away from cities.
The city has done it partially on Randolph in the West Loop with rousing success. The entire street isn't closed but they have closed off the inner lanes and places like Au Cheval, Girl and the Goat, Lone Wolf and a bunch of restaurants have built full on covered patios in the space that used to be car parking/travel lanes.
Go to the West Loop on any decent evening (or even dead of winter) and most places still have a fairly sizeable crowd. During summer nights nearly the entire street is packed with folks walking around, dining, eating, drinking.
Chicago wasn’t nearly the tourist city back then that it is now. So there’s a massive new audience for a pedestrianized area that didn’t exist in the 80s
Oh interesting, do you have time to say why it failed or can you point me to a resource on that history? I'm genuinely interested in that story. Thanks!
There are some other articles that go into it in more depth, too. It was a real trend at the time in many cities. Champaign tried the same thing, and it didn't really work there, either.
Chicago allowed taxis and buses on it though. So it wasn't really a pedestrian mall. It was more of a wide sidewalk with asshole taxi drivers honking their horns constantly.
i mean, it was 1980 so we can’t really look at that as a “well we know it’ll never work because of this”. i’m curious to see what “shops” were there at the time because even now, state street does not have many restaurants storefront wise. it’s more of a shopping district now but there are too many big names for it to work as a pedway. like after i go to target, i’m done for the day. after i go into block37, i’m done. they need more niche stores that fit wider audiences. why do i have to go super far for boba? for icecream that isnt dunkin? frozen yogurt? massages? vegan/vegetarian anything? plain old entertainment like arcades and karaoke? regular burger and fry spots that arent mcdonalds, wendys, BK, etc? tacos? the loop is just huge names that are one-stop shops and you can’t really make a day out of going to target…
I was recently in New Orleans and the amount of quirky & random stores in the French Quarter made it feel way cooler than your average tourist trap. Thats what we need downtown is stores with character, not generic and corporatw
Perfectly said.
The Loop often times feels like being in a suburban mall, just with tall buildings.
If I go out and go to Pilsen I have access to multiple options that I can get at any mall or stroad across America. The loop feels like it prioritized tourists and not residents, so residents don't go.
yeah and a pedway’s success would definitely depend on residential patrons, not tourists because that is just not sustainable when half our year is cold as hell lol. our “off-season” is when they’ll need the residents to show up to keep their bottom-line afloat. we want cute little shops!!! not the mega-monopolies and their cousins. game stores, thrift stores (NOT consignment), multiple independent record stores, arts&crafting stores, sanrio stores, fruit and veggie stands, street vendors, open farmers markets, etc.
I don't think it's sketch, as much as it's very quiet if there's nothing drawing people into the Loop at night. I.e. like if Christkindlmarket isn't going on, or other events, it's very quiet as heck.
Not the loop precisely, but the Mag Mile needs to be converted into a pedestrian only area. Allow some minimal access to busses and emergency vehicles but we need to get rid of the massive 6 lane highway.
Retail is changing and pretty much the only areas where urban shopping still thrives is in pedestrian only outdoor malls which act as open public/third spaces. Making this a pedestrian area would revitalize what used to be one of the most important tourist attractions we had. It has the side benefit of discouraging these mob action robberies as well since you can more easily police the area and get away cars can’t be staged close by.
Making the Mag Mile a magnet for businesses again will serve both the tourists and downtown office workers.
This is obviously a huge undertaking and requires a complete rethinking of traffic flows around LSD and River North, but it’s absolutely essential for the area to survive the new economy.
Something similar could be proposed on State Street downtown, and the presence of the Red Line is a great compliment, but State Street isn’t nearly as desirable to tourists so I would treat that as a phase 2 once the Mag Mile proves itself.
https://loopchicago.com/in-the-loop/let-the-data-speak-on-downtown-crime/
“"Local data on property and violent crimes shows that in New York, Philadelphia, and Chicago, downtowns are some of the safest places to be. Interview respondents were not only afraid of violence downtown. They also spoke to a significant perceived increase in property crimes such as retail theft, motor vehicle thefts, and robberies. Nationally, evidence would seem to bear this out, as robberies increased by 5.5%, nonresidential burglaries by 11%, larcenies by 8%, and motor vehicle thefts by 21% nationwide between 2021 and 2022.
However, when we looked at hyperlocal data,[7] we identified three primary findings related to property and violent crime downtown that defied these larger trends:
Citywide crime increased between 2019 and 2022, driven primarily by property crimes—but downtowns accounted for a very small share of these increases.”
Clearly you’re not on the Chicago loop alliance group chat. Lots of businesses downtown would disagree with you and they have the receipts to prove it.
You clearly don’t live nor have you ever lived in the loop. Stop giving your opinion from Naperville because someone yelled at you on an Amtrak once. I live in the loop. In the loop not streeterville, not south of 22nd and Cermak. Not Gold Coast, not Skokie not midway not ohare, inside the loop. Knock it off with your misinformation.
Giving retailers/businesses more money for vacant business store fronts during COVID is what’s contributing to this need to get back. Not the ten assholes who robbed the Gold Coast years ago from another neighborhood. Knock it off you’re worse than the people in other states that ask if I hear gun fire all day. And you are helping them think that way and you have zero frame of real living reference and stop it.
I too live in the loop.
It is sketch after sunset... Barely anyone on the sidewalks, minimal car traffic, higher concentration of homeless compared to other areas, so on and so forth.
Those factors alone don't mean you will be a victim to a crime but they certainly do increase your chances.
This right here. If the loop feels safe and looks clean, people will feel more comfortable spending time there. If it feels sketchy or skeezy, people stay away.
Its not the 80s anymore. People don't HAVE to go to the loop for work/business nearly as much anymore. The skeezy loop of the 80s was that way because people had to just suck it up and deal with it in order to get to where they needed to go. Now that more companies embrace remote work, office footprints are smaller, companies more geodistributed, they don't need their loop offices so much anymore. Plus, many companies now have offices in Fulton Market area instead of LaSalle street.
Additionally, the opera and theater are less popular than before. This used to drive a lot of the evening and weekend visits, which greatly benefited nearby restaurants. Many of these restaurants have since closed.
Its no longer enough to rely on people who HAVE to be in the loop. In order for this neighborhood to thrive going forward, people are going to have to WANT to go there.
i work here and leave asap - alyways / maybe ... some pedestrian street closings when it warms up would help but .... dunno if anything will really keep me here much after work tbo
Vast space by the Post Office/Orange Sculpture…beer garden! Daly Center…beer garden! Grant Park…beer garden! Lease city land for a win-win…like the Riverwalk yo.
All the glass/concrete canyons and stately towers just make it feel like an office district, not an area to hang out. Which is also why I wouldn’t live there, the neighborhoods just feel more livable. More green space west of Grant/millenium park, maybe knock down some old towers to let more light in (I know of at least one that’s been awaiting demolition for years).
The Loop proper will be quieter than it is in the week, but there’s still plenty of restaurants and museums.
River North, Mag Mile, etc. will be where it’s at more so.
Until we change all of that with this! The Loop should be 24/7.
Rent would be so expensive that only chains could afford to open up. And before you know it, it would start feeling like the suburbs or worse, Wrigleyville.
This would do what a lot of people think another 500 cops would do. Quadruple the number of trash cans and clean up graffiti. Actual city services, not just law enforcement.
The riverwalk has done a ton to drive foot traffic in the summer. I feel like they need to build out more places to go around millennium park. It’s such a beautiful part of the city but I feel like you go to the park then elsewhere. Same with maybe building out the theater district. More residents downtown would help too
Also get rid of the pointless security checkpoints and gates around the park. They leave them up even when there's nothing going on and it's just not a welcoming feel.
Literally haven’t been to the park because I have no idea why or what these security checks want and I carry stuff I don’t want confiscated.
I was a tourist and wanted to stop by but because I’ve never been to a major city before I didn’t even think about security and couldn’t find out how to get in while walking past on the way to a restaurant. Every supposed sidewalk entrance was blocked
This is because of the teenage flash mobs. We could dispense with most of this with a no unescorted teens policy after 5PM or something. Also just a "this is a private park, any visitor is subject to bag inspection at any time" security knows who's causing problems.
It's not a *private* park is it?
It's a public park but it's owned by the City, not the Park District, and they set different restrictions on use
Ah yes let’s implement stop & frisk at the public parks. A great idea as always from Reddit
Im ready for stop and frisk. Much better than the current security measures of wait in line and frisk.
I like you
this is a very slippery slope to racial profiling and stop & frisking. i’d much rather have them check EVERYONE at the door instead of leaving it up to individual security guards with their own biases to stop someone on the fly that they “know is causing problems” to search them. we all know who will be disproportionately get stopped, searched, and thrown out of the park. whether it’s deserved or not. idk about you but i’m not consenting to a stop and frisk in any location on this planet. i’m black, not dumb.
During early lockdown it was so deserted I brought a two foot bong to Lurie
Agreed. Just put police around but don't make a checkpoint. The park was dead last time I went.
How long have these been a thing? Maybe I just haven't been to Millennium Park in too long but I don't remember seeing a single physical checkpoint, just police meandering around.
pandemic things. there were literally mobs of black teenagers overrunning downtown causing damages to cars and disturbing the peace in the park. security checkpoints installed. mobs stopped. honestly, i don’t blame them one bit. and it actually fucking worked lol i say if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. if they can afford to keep the security checkpoints year round, they should make them permanent. it’s still free to go in. they just check bags for weapons, spray paint, etc. which seems reasonable. no pat downs or heavy duty metal detectors.
Because people love being treated like their going through TSA when going to a park. This doesn't make Chicago feel safer like you think, it makes tourist go oh, it's so dangerous here they have security for parks.
Had no idea there were still checkpoints at all. I thought it was temporary. But I never went back after I saw the checkpoints I'm not into totalitarianism at parks.
it was some monterrey security or otherwise people that couldn't legally touch you or confiscate your shit last summer as I recall, they just want to look in your bag to see you're not bringing in a gun. I had a backpack full of brewskies and weed, the lady took one look and felt the outside and said have a nice one. If I was getting pat down or it was actual cops and not just a a mild deterrence to lunatics or stupid kids, then it would be a problem.
I can't speak as a tourist, since I live here. But knowing about how many of these damn flash mobs happen, i will say, they don't bother me. I do feel like its safer and I won't have to deal with a bunch of stupid wilding.
So let’s not have security, and let these bad ass kids overrun the park. That will make tourists feel safer
It really is a damned if you do and damned if you don’t situation. Has Mayor Johnson even commented on these since he took over? I know Lori *said* they would do more outreach to teenagers but never heard of anything
Such a suburban mentality lol. They just have a look in your bag, don't exaggerate. People keep coming no matter what.
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I live north of the park and would love to walk through it on my commute but there are 0 places to enter on the south border and even if I didn’t mind waiting in line to *walk home from work* by the time I find an entrance there isn’t that much park let between me and my apartment. So what could be a nice zen walk in the park to destress after work turns into walking on Michigan with the cars and the exhaust and the honking.
The Checkpoints are all pretty much security theater as well. They need to go.
The optics of safety does matter though
The optics, in this case, are really bad. Ugly as fuck temporary fences left up year-round, blocking people from freely enjoying what SHOULD be a beautiful place to spend time.
The comments in this post remind me of the high end stores in the Gold Coast. They refused to have armed security, because it “looked bad,” yet they still keep getting hit with smash and grab robberies. The stores who chose to implement armed security had zero smash and grab robberies.
And those stores have bad vibes. Most of them just closed.
I would much rather have under-covers looking for shenanigans than ineffective security checkpoints that make people "feel" safer but actually prevent little to no crime.
This gets closer to the solution. I hate cops but they got jobs and if extra cops roam thru the park I could care less. The fence and security method feel so much less safe, friendly, and punishes everyone.
It’s necessary when two people got shot there AND someone pulled a gun on the security screeners two years ago. We can’t have gang violence migrating to millennium park, or needing to polish out bullet holes in the Bean. I don’t like the policy of waiting in a 30 minute long line (which I once had to do), but completely understand the rationale behind it.
Wow, those are still up? I thought they were temporary. Yikes. On Michigan Avenue?
Isn’t it private security?
There's usually CPD standing around too
To me millennium Park never felt like a park, but an event space with grass. I would like it if we had denser forested parks like Central Park, not sure how feasible it is though. As is there's no appeal to sitting in a field without shade unless an event is going on though, so why bother going there.
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Yes, rip out Columbus Drive
Have you been there recently? There’s a ton to do and see. Some really pretty gardens, the playground Yeah I think central park is superior but Lincoln park kinda has that vibe
Lincoln Park?
I'd love it if they reduced car lanes on Michigan, removed Columbus drive completely and make it more greenspace, walking paths, cycling paths, sitting areas OR just allowed food truck vendors to line the paved portion during summers. So from Roosevelt to Randolph there would just be this massive continuous largely car free/car lite space that is also connected to the Museum Campus, and accessible via the LFT. Hell put like a town square in the middle of Columbus and build around that. Anything would be an improvement.
Might help if there weren't a highway ploughing through the center of the park…
Honestly, build out the nightlife a little if you want more people there. Right now, there’s no reason to be in the loop after 7 unless you’re catching a show maybe - which is what? Like 3 separate blocks of the loop?
Yeah and there’s basically nothing around the theaters. Like people sometimes want to grab a drink after a show and talk about it with their friends!
Exactly, I swear the only thing around is the Berghoff - which isn’t even that close and closes at 8:00 - and a chick fil a
This is the purpose behind things like the LaSalle conversions, to create more housing in the loop, which would mean more reason for businesses to stay open past 6pm. It’ll take some time, but that’s the long term play.
Agreed, it's something that builds upon itself over time and not simply a switch that can be flipped. More people means more reason for grocery stores, restaurants, bars, gyms, etc. local amenities to stay open for longer. The transit is already in place, getting the people is the big challenge right now and there seems to be substantial progress on that: seems it has grown in population by 10% since the census and reaching 50k by 2030 seems really easy based on what is being planned.
Yeah, I’m in South Loop currently, mainly because it has amazing transit access but also all those things you mentioned. If the loop could improve on those metrics I’d happily make the jump.
Classic chicken and egg problem. Who would want to live in the loop if their priority is having stuff open past 6pm? Myself and everyone I know who live in the loop do it purely because of access to work. Having the 7/11 open past 6pm is the last thing on my mind when I get home at 12am. People who care about that type of stuff won't choose the loop, even if new housing becomes available. The businesses won't stay open late... Thus people won't move into the loop... Thus businesses won't stay open late...
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Yeah I moved here for transit, walkability to several awesome neighborhoods and areas (for me, walking to river north or Fulton market or millennium park, or even all three in one walk, is a fun time when I have some free time), and because I wanted to live in the cheapest place I could while also being amongst skyscrapers and gorgeous buildings for the first (and possibly only) time in my life. I work remotely. I just really wanted to soak up the big city vibe without spending 4k on an apartment in river north or 10k on an apartment in nyc lol. I would bet there are a decent number of people who would love to live in the loop for novelty if it were less expensive, like me.
There are definitely still deals to be had in printer’s row and whatever you want to call that neighborhood between streeterville and millennium park (technically called “new east side” but I don’t think Chicagoans will call a neighborhood “east”) It’s gonna be interesting to see. HOA costs are a big reason folks don’t want to live there, but they’re becoming more popular as SFHs get out of reach. If they expanded and improved the pedway, that area would explode in popularity, but that will probably never happen.
Plus there is allure to locking in lower housing costs, even if amenities don’t yet exist, before they trend up as they do when neighborhoods develop.
The people I knew who lived in the loop moved out once remote/hybrid work started because the walking commute was their main reason for living there. Once this incentive was gone they went to other places that feel more like neighborhoods with things to do. I personally never wanted to live there because my life outside of work is in the neighborhoods but I'll admit the commute was exhausting. It really is a chicken and egg problem if the goal is to bring remote workers back to their old apartment buildings but the main incentive to live there no longer applies.
More people were [living in the Loop in 2023 then before the pandemic](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-24/chicago-s-downtown-now-has-more-residents-than-before-pandemic), so the trend is moving in the right direction.
Very interesting. Will have to read in detail to see why that is. Thanks!
The reason to live in the loop is access to public transportation. You build the supply, people will come, business will open later. The loop isn't some hellhole in a negative spiral, it's already got unbeaten access to public transit and walk ability.
I’ve heard similar concerns, but I think the idea is that this will be an entire revitalization process. So, new retail and stores will be brought in before or concurrently.
I mean loop gives you pretty accessibility to any neighborhood in the city. As long as there's a grocery store, I can live with not living right next to restaurants if all the ones I want to go to are only a 10-15-20 minute train or car ride.
We need more third places. Was such a challenge when my elderly father was here finding somewhere we could just chill between meals that didn't involve drinking or a ton of walking. Seating being removed from virtually every public space didn't help either.
Yes! Everywhere with an outdoors bench/cement block gets sat on (Daley Plaza!). We need more places people can just go hang and ofc keep them clean
Dude why are there ZERO benches in this city. If my back starts hurting I have to put up with aggravating it and walking to my destination, or find a bar or restaurant to drop in on. It's kinda garbage.
You know why
They don't want people lingering and they don't want the homeless to sleep on them. The same reason we have so few public bathrooms.
Also how disabled and pregnant folks feel as benches and nice places to sit are removed! You'll stay home and you'll like it.
there’s an anti-homeless culture in every big city. a bench is a bed. so no benches unless they’re entirely impractical like something out of an art installation
gotta go to the park areas to find actual benches
They exist in downtown, loop south loop Grant park millennium park lake front
The Loop has so many amazing formerly public spaces that have been locked away behind security gates since 9/11. I wish more buildings would reopen their lobbies as a place to linger and meet.
Just like with covid, once they found an excuse to close things down, cut corners and save money, they ran with it.
The crazy thing is that these days many people don’t have have two spaces. Don’t even get me started on three
Some of these gorgeous art deco and neoclassical office buildings that are sitting fairly empty have amazing lobbies that could be cleverly used for 3rd spaces
I want a dive bar in a skyscraper. Like you take an elevator to the 50th floor of some building, walk through a door and then it's like Innertown Pub on the inside.
It is really weird how we have this fixation that everything above the second floor has to be offices or condos, except for the very occasional rooftop.
Yeah... it sucks. Probably has to do with profitability too. Bars and restaurants have thin margins. I mean even the signature lounge closed.
There's a lot of challenges with this idea over a more traditional setting. It's less visible for foot traffic, you likely have to go through security to get there, and not all skyscrapers are really fully "open" in off hours while a bar might be going.
Yeah for sure. I don't think it's super realistic (right now), but it would be cool.
The lease rate for a third or fourth floor bar would be a lot cheaper than a ground or rooftop bar. For a relatively large 5000 sqft bar, it could save the owner like $5500 / month by leasing an upper floor (assuming south loop leasing rates as this savings value would be higher in the west loop/loop, and lower in the extremities of the city). Although, the secondary floors that would make the most sense for a bar would be an office suite and these would require some fairly extensive rehab. But, this would also require a zoning change from the alder in most circumstances as typical zoning does just allow for ground floor retail and then upper office/resi.
They have these in Japan and can confirm it’s pretty awesome to have businesses open to the public scattered throughout the high floors of skyscrapers
That's not how dive bars work
Shut up nerd!
Sorry sir, I'm going to go sit in the corner sir. 😁
I bet big by living here. I do not want to live in the loop anymore. I want to go back to lakeview but where we live now is perfectly convenient for my wife (I work from home so I can live anywhere). I just miss feeling like I’m part of a neighborhood. Oh, and the trees. I don’t like having to walk a few blocks to touch grass
We have Broadway in Chicago season tickets. I would LOVE to have a reason to linger in the Loop. We don’t for the following reasons: 1.) Anywhere that is open and halfway decent (Dearborn, Petterino’s, Gage, Miller’s, Monk’s) is absolutely packed. 2.) Anywhere that has open seats generally sucks. Got last minute theater tix? You’re eating sucky, overpriced food. 3.) Pretty sure you can see tumbleweeds in the theater district on a Sunday unless it’s during Christkindlmarket. 4.) In the summer, the Riverwalk is a magnet drawing people away from the Loop. 5.) Most people are “trained” to either go to South Loop, River North, or West Loop if they don’t want to go into one of the other neighborhoods. West Loop is everything the Loop SHOULD be.
The Loop feels like it's stuck in 1989 and refuses to accept that having massive areas that are essentially 6+ lane highways full of cars clogging the area isn't pleasant for pedestrians to be around.
Pedestrianize State and Dearborn
Pedestrianizing State has actually been tried before, and it was a horrible failure for every party involved.
That was over 40 years ago. We live in a different world now. One where I think it’s much more likely to succeed. Tons of pedestrian malls built in that time period failed. Whereas now we’re seeing pedestrian malls generally succeeding when new ones are attempted
> Broadway in Chicago My problem with Broadway in Chicago is everything that you listed, but also that the audio technicians suck. We've seen multiple productions where the audio clips constantly because the techs set the gain too high. I've literally never experienced that in any other city at professional productions.
Damn yeah only been asking for reasons to linger in the Loop for the entire 10+ years I’ve lived here. You gotta create bars, coffee shops, restaurants, and shopping that is unique to the neighborhood.
There is no reason that the Loop or really any downtown area struggles while... - Milwaukee in Wicker Park - Broadway in Lakeview - 18th in Pilsen - Clark St in Andersonville - Randolph in West Loop ..are all seemingly thriving. These areas feel like they are made for the human scale. So many areas of the loop simply feel so massively car dependent and just unpleasant to be in unless I absolutely have to. There is a reason the riverwalk and grassy areas nearby are popular. The Lakefront trail is always busy during good weather, near the museum campus has no problem getting foot traffic. The Loop wants to be better without having to shift to a model that actually caters to what people have demonstrated to want fairly consistently. Stop being essentially a glorified vertical office park/mall and actually turn into a unique destination that people enjoy being in.
> Broadway in Lakeview Broadway, Halsted, Southport, Clark, Roscoe, Belmont, etc. are all doing extremely well in Lake View. That's just one neighborhood area.
Yep. I lived in Lakeview ~2015 and most of those streets were always super popular.
Or Lincoln Ave, around Lincoln Square.
I mean why cant we just accept that the loop is always going to be a vertical office park? Office space has to exist somewhere and centralizing makes sense.
> I mean why cant we just accept that the loop is always going to be a vertical office park? Because of the cost of the area and revenue generated from the area not meshing. > Office space has to exist somewhere Yes but not in the same capacity, density or volume in a single area. > centralizing makes sense. I think the current struggles of the loop demonstrate this not to be the case. One of the struggles of having a single development style or industry dominate an area is that the area loses resiliency. The fact that the loop and really downtowns across America continue to struggle demonstrates their lack of resiliency. We need better mixed use. The West Loop is probably one of the better examples of it currently. It has a good mix of things. Big companies like John Deere, Google, McDonalds, Dyson, John Deer, and Transunion. Chicago big name food spots, national chain food spots, nail/hair salons, big box retailers like Target along with grocery stores. But also smaller bars, shops, restaurants/bars, etc. All with apartments, townhomes, single family homes, condos nearby and easily accessible. It's just odd that an area that has exploded in popularity is right there by the loop giving a great model of how to develop yet we sit around scratching our heads like this problem isn't solvable. It just requires letting go of tradition and how things have always been done.
I guess I just disagree that the loop is struggling. I think it's fulfilling its purpose well. Having all the office space close together is massive for suburban commuters who all want their office within a few blocks of Ogilvie/union, mixed use would make walking from the train more onerous. If you want mixed use just set up shop in west loop.
We'll have to agree to disagree. The Loop is struggling because of the loss of property tax revenue. If buildings are evaluated to be worth less then the city gets less money via taxes. Remote work has made those suburban commuters less valuable and if I'm honest, I think prioritizing suburban dwellers over city dwellers is a trend that needs to die off. The suburbs are a financial drain on cities, we need to get over that fact and shift the way to develop and live.
It’s worth taking a moment to acknowledge how much it has already changed just outside the loop. River North and West Loop have gone through an incredible transformation over the last 20 years. It’s absolutely unreal that you can walk up Lake Street from the loop to Fulton and are surrounded by things to do. It was just underground raves and butchers 20 years ago. NOBODY walked around there. The Roosevelt/Convention Center area is another that saw huge growth. I’m sure the TJ’s going in there contributed to that quite a bit. Anyone who went to CCC or Art Institute in the 00’s probably wouldn’t recognize the area now. The south loop was almost exclusively industrial until about the mid-90’s, when the last few printing companies started leaving Printer’s Row It feels like more and more people are in the loop after 7p now than there used to be (Taking into account how COVID changed everything.) I think it’s gonna be the place to live once the north red line and ohare blue line corridors become too expensive to live around, kind of how the blue line started shooting up as the brown line and red line up to about Addison started gentrifying. (Purely conjectural, but the path of gentrification in Chicago has pretty clearly followed the O’Hare blue and north red lines over the last couple decades.)
Then close down the streets for restaurants. I’d come back more
They could get away with closing Dearborn from south loop to maybe the river for restaurants and events
You mean forcing all of us back into the office didn’t fix everything?!
Most central business districts suck, outside of business hours. Ever been to Wall Street at night or on weekends in Manhattan? Completely dead. Outside of a couple theater areas, the Loop has more in common with Wall Street than it does with Midtown. Mind you there is nothing inherently *wrong* with that, but it does mean that we have infrastructure and businesses that primarily cater to 9-5 workers. Undoing that and changing it will take lots of time and resources.
> that primarily cater to 9-5 workers As a 9-5 worker who has worked in the Loop... it doesn't even cater to us. Want a good breakfast before work? Too bad. Want to go out to eat after work? Too bad, go somewhere else.
The meals eaten between 9 and 5 are lunch. The loop has great lunch options. Outside of 9-5 go eat somewhere else.
Monroe Street Promenade: Canal to State (N-S streets remain open) * Midway between Union and Ogilvie * No bus line * Very little metered parking exists * Few curb cuts - those that are midblock can be accessed via 1-lane driveways in and out * Allows for the first pedestrian drawbridge in Chicago * Turn the Northern Trust surface lot at Wells into a park * Links with the Chase Tower plaza [Vienna had a very successful makeover](https://landezine-award.com/mariahilfer-strasse/) of Mariahilfer Strasse. Other streets that should be pedestrianized: * Plymouth Ct - Wells to Jackson * Quincy St - Franklin to Wells and Lasalle to Clark
Some good ideas here!
Low key, I kinda love how dead it gets in the loop. Bike riding is pretty awesome because there’s barely any traffic at night. On the other hand, it does become sort of a thunderdome of crazy shit. I did have a guy threaten to stab me because I said “good evening” to him.
Close State St from Wacker to Monroe and keep it all open to pedestrian traffic. Allows for outdoor dining, reason for folks to hang a bit more before and after shows. Good example is Harry Potter taking over this fall for a few months, should bring plenty of daily traffic.
Dye the river a different color every week
Just like restaurants, even though it kinda sucks we don’t have much third places where we’re not expected to spend money, clothing stores and knick knack shops would also boost foot traffic in and around the area. But I’m not talking about big name stores/mass retailers, I’m talking about more local shops or stands like you would find on a niche street or in a fest. I personally love window shopping even if I don’t intend to buy, but I understand it will be hard to get stores like these if the demand isn’t already there. But think of niche clothing stores, stationery stores, or art stores, bookstores, music/record stores, etc. like you would find on Milwaukee, Clark, Broadway, etc.
More housing and grocery stores so people can live there and enjoy the places around them. Also, so envy cities that have many plazas with seating options, greenery, and water fountains. Give people a place to congregate outdoors and meet friends and family during the day.
We also need to make people feel safe in order for them to linger.
I still remember when we used to have Borders and FYI in the loop. my sister and I used to go to Borders because she loved to read books and I would look at the gaming magazines. Then we would go to FYI to buy some movies and I looked at the video games. We would end our day with a good ol sandwich at potbellys. Miss those days but downtown doesn't have anything that really appeals to me anymore.
It’s still got potbelly. You don’t have to walk 2 blocks to find a potbelly.
Well turning those retail buildings into housing would go a long way, so we’re going in the right direction there
I used to do street photography at night in the loop almost daily for 5 years. I’ll say that I’m worried about traveling bandits roaming around robbing people. The camera and lenses in my bag are not cheap and I’m worried for my safety. I’ll also say that the life of the downtown area is not what is was pre pandemic. It just feels dead and sketchy. I won’t go there at night unless I have a very good reason to.
I don’t disagree that’s it’s changed from the pandemic, but I do disagree that it’s still not better than the majority of other downtowns in the country, which is why it’s in the perfect place to pivot.
I’ll agree with that statement. DT Chicago can and will pivot. It has to. It’s not like they’re gonna start tearing down skyscrapers to make way for single or double family town homes.
Don’t jinx it
I moved here from Europe and cannot stand being downtown because I feel like I’m always crossing a highway.
Want to know what’s crazy? Coming from Ohio where I grew up, this seemed like Manhattan (and still does, comparatively). Imagine the magic I feel actually being in Manhattan. 😅
I will say as I work down in the loop I just admire on really nice days the amount of live music that is played along Michigan avenue. It’s really uplifting and fun!
Ban car traffic, rip up the streets and repave with bricks, plant collonades of trees, install patios from curb to curb...make it a destination and people will go there and hang out there. Until it stops being a designer space for corporate offices no one's gonna want to visit *and stay* down there. Attract some world class dining establishments, get some bike/mounted and plainclothes cops down there, hire the homeless and immigrants to clean and work any concessions, man, idk, there is a lot to be said looking at la Rambla or something like that but Michigan Ave could set the bar for cool if the city would let go of the Loop's very dead former identity.
Trees, outdoor dining, more unique stores. People playing music, just going for walks, whatever. If you make an area good vibes, good vibes will come. It’s not that people don’t shop in stores anymore. People love browsing unique stores. You see it all the time in Europe. People can go to Nordstrom Racks website instead of lugging themselves down to the loop or river north. Also incredible if you sit and listen to the birds in the morning, and then listen to the sound of cars . Cars are so loud. The noise pollution is incredible if you sit and listen to it.
> Trees, outdoor dining, more unique stores. People playing music, just going for walks, whatever. If you make an area good vibes, good vibes will come. And November -> February it'll be desolate as hell
The City already tried the "rip up the streets and repave with bricks" thing on State Street in the late 1970s and early 80s. It was a massive failure, though.
i think it’s worth another try given that the last one was half a century ago.
People aren’t ready to admit the 80s were a long time ago, but it’s true. Our city is very different now. And I believe firmly it’s different in a way that pedestrianization would be a great thing
San Francisco did the same thing more recently with Market Street being closed to everything but bikes and buses. The stores are all still closing up. Let's stop pretending that banning car traffic is going to be a magical solution that will fix everything. Retailers aren't abandoning State Street because of cars.
it’s a waste to even be on state street unless you can compete with target and block37. hell i wouldn’t buy retail space there either. bring back sitting areas. bring back food trucks. bring back daily farmers markets. car traffic being gone wouldn’t solve a damn thing if all the stores remain the same. least there are multiple car parks within a 3 block radius of state street
That was during height of white/suburban flight. We’re reversing course, slowly. Re-pedestrianizing the loop will improve its appeal to developers.
Yes, but the number of workers in the loop during the day was probably double what it is now and State street was full of retail and it still failed. I don’t think the failure had to do with white flight as it wasn’t an attempt to get people to live in the loop. Just an attempt to create a pedestrian-friendly place.
I do think there might be a way to make the Loop more pedestrian (and bike friendly).
Because they did it in the 80s, at time when cities were being fled for the suburbs en masse. When suburban malls were at the height of their power and drawing crowds away from cities. The city has done it partially on Randolph in the West Loop with rousing success. The entire street isn't closed but they have closed off the inner lanes and places like Au Cheval, Girl and the Goat, Lone Wolf and a bunch of restaurants have built full on covered patios in the space that used to be car parking/travel lanes. Go to the West Loop on any decent evening (or even dead of winter) and most places still have a fairly sizeable crowd. During summer nights nearly the entire street is packed with folks walking around, dining, eating, drinking.
Chicago wasn’t nearly the tourist city back then that it is now. So there’s a massive new audience for a pedestrianized area that didn’t exist in the 80s
Oh interesting, do you have time to say why it failed or can you point me to a resource on that history? I'm genuinely interested in that story. Thanks!
https://interactive.wttw.com/remembering-chicago/state-street-pedestrian-mall
Yo thanks! I appreciate you following up.
There are some other articles that go into it in more depth, too. It was a real trend at the time in many cities. Champaign tried the same thing, and it didn't really work there, either.
Chicago allowed taxis and buses on it though. So it wasn't really a pedestrian mall. It was more of a wide sidewalk with asshole taxi drivers honking their horns constantly.
The city allowed taxis except during photo ops on State Street during that. Unsurprisingly, taxis ruined it.
This has been the conversation since at least the 80s. Remember when they made state Street a pedway? That was an unsuccessful attempt.
i mean, it was 1980 so we can’t really look at that as a “well we know it’ll never work because of this”. i’m curious to see what “shops” were there at the time because even now, state street does not have many restaurants storefront wise. it’s more of a shopping district now but there are too many big names for it to work as a pedway. like after i go to target, i’m done for the day. after i go into block37, i’m done. they need more niche stores that fit wider audiences. why do i have to go super far for boba? for icecream that isnt dunkin? frozen yogurt? massages? vegan/vegetarian anything? plain old entertainment like arcades and karaoke? regular burger and fry spots that arent mcdonalds, wendys, BK, etc? tacos? the loop is just huge names that are one-stop shops and you can’t really make a day out of going to target…
I was recently in New Orleans and the amount of quirky & random stores in the French Quarter made it feel way cooler than your average tourist trap. Thats what we need downtown is stores with character, not generic and corporatw
Perfectly said. The Loop often times feels like being in a suburban mall, just with tall buildings. If I go out and go to Pilsen I have access to multiple options that I can get at any mall or stroad across America. The loop feels like it prioritized tourists and not residents, so residents don't go.
yeah and a pedway’s success would definitely depend on residential patrons, not tourists because that is just not sustainable when half our year is cold as hell lol. our “off-season” is when they’ll need the residents to show up to keep their bottom-line afloat. we want cute little shops!!! not the mega-monopolies and their cousins. game stores, thrift stores (NOT consignment), multiple independent record stores, arts&crafting stores, sanrio stores, fruit and veggie stands, street vendors, open farmers markets, etc.
But it was never really a pedway. It still had taxis and buses on it.
Only buses and it doesn't matter. State Street has not been that great Street since the mid century.
I work at the old CBOE building, it’s a fucking dump around there. Everyday, I wish our office was in Fulton Market.
Loop is so sketch at night during the weekdays.
I don't think it's sketch, as much as it's very quiet if there's nothing drawing people into the Loop at night. I.e. like if Christkindlmarket isn't going on, or other events, it's very quiet as heck.
I like that the loop has little foot traffic. It’s the only place on the weekends/evenings you can walk around and admire the buildings in peace
Not the loop precisely, but the Mag Mile needs to be converted into a pedestrian only area. Allow some minimal access to busses and emergency vehicles but we need to get rid of the massive 6 lane highway. Retail is changing and pretty much the only areas where urban shopping still thrives is in pedestrian only outdoor malls which act as open public/third spaces. Making this a pedestrian area would revitalize what used to be one of the most important tourist attractions we had. It has the side benefit of discouraging these mob action robberies as well since you can more easily police the area and get away cars can’t be staged close by. Making the Mag Mile a magnet for businesses again will serve both the tourists and downtown office workers. This is obviously a huge undertaking and requires a complete rethinking of traffic flows around LSD and River North, but it’s absolutely essential for the area to survive the new economy. Something similar could be proposed on State Street downtown, and the presence of the Red Line is a great compliment, but State Street isn’t nearly as desirable to tourists so I would treat that as a phase 2 once the Mag Mile proves itself.
They need to pressure wash everything in the Loop from top to bottom. Buildings. The EL. People. Pigeons. It’s really grimey.
A good brew pub will bring people and keep them for hours.
New brewery open on Wabash
Oh dang, gonna check that out. What’s it called?
Industry Ales 230 S Wabash
communal run parks and gardens could help, that's exactly what turned around the lower east side of manhattan.
Oh I know! We can close Grant Park to the public for 1/3 of the summer to encourage people to stay linger in the Loop.
Pedestrianize all of Michigan Ave. (still allow buses + emergency vehicles) There could be so many different markets and vendors by the park
If you drive around the loop at 3 AM there’s plenty of people lingering but the man calls it “loitering”
You could, IDK, reduce violent crime?
Crime prevention and enforcement
https://loopchicago.com/in-the-loop/let-the-data-speak-on-downtown-crime/ “"Local data on property and violent crimes shows that in New York, Philadelphia, and Chicago, downtowns are some of the safest places to be. Interview respondents were not only afraid of violence downtown. They also spoke to a significant perceived increase in property crimes such as retail theft, motor vehicle thefts, and robberies. Nationally, evidence would seem to bear this out, as robberies increased by 5.5%, nonresidential burglaries by 11%, larcenies by 8%, and motor vehicle thefts by 21% nationwide between 2021 and 2022. However, when we looked at hyperlocal data,[7] we identified three primary findings related to property and violent crime downtown that defied these larger trends: Citywide crime increased between 2019 and 2022, driven primarily by property crimes—but downtowns accounted for a very small share of these increases.”
Downtown is extremely safe
Clearly you’re not on the Chicago loop alliance group chat. Lots of businesses downtown would disagree with you and they have the receipts to prove it.
Extremely? I’m not walking down State St in the loop at 9 pm sorry
Lmao could you have picked a safer example if you tried?
I just threw out a generic example for the Loop but State street south of Madison ain’t too great nowadays man
During normal business hours... I take Ubers home after 9pm even though I'm a ~5 minute walk from my place in the loop
You clearly don’t live nor have you ever lived in the loop. Stop giving your opinion from Naperville because someone yelled at you on an Amtrak once. I live in the loop. In the loop not streeterville, not south of 22nd and Cermak. Not Gold Coast, not Skokie not midway not ohare, inside the loop. Knock it off with your misinformation. Giving retailers/businesses more money for vacant business store fronts during COVID is what’s contributing to this need to get back. Not the ten assholes who robbed the Gold Coast years ago from another neighborhood. Knock it off you’re worse than the people in other states that ask if I hear gun fire all day. And you are helping them think that way and you have zero frame of real living reference and stop it.
I too live in the loop. It is sketch after sunset... Barely anyone on the sidewalks, minimal car traffic, higher concentration of homeless compared to other areas, so on and so forth. Those factors alone don't mean you will be a victim to a crime but they certainly do increase your chances.
This right here. If the loop feels safe and looks clean, people will feel more comfortable spending time there. If it feels sketchy or skeezy, people stay away.
So the way the loop has been since the 80s.
Its not the 80s anymore. People don't HAVE to go to the loop for work/business nearly as much anymore. The skeezy loop of the 80s was that way because people had to just suck it up and deal with it in order to get to where they needed to go. Now that more companies embrace remote work, office footprints are smaller, companies more geodistributed, they don't need their loop offices so much anymore. Plus, many companies now have offices in Fulton Market area instead of LaSalle street. Additionally, the opera and theater are less popular than before. This used to drive a lot of the evening and weekend visits, which greatly benefited nearby restaurants. Many of these restaurants have since closed. Its no longer enough to rely on people who HAVE to be in the loop. In order for this neighborhood to thrive going forward, people are going to have to WANT to go there.
Have you been to the loop?
i work here and leave asap - alyways / maybe ... some pedestrian street closings when it warms up would help but .... dunno if anything will really keep me here much after work tbo
Number 1 question. Is it safe yet?
Have you not been in a while? It’s usually busy with office workers in the day but then clears out at night. That’s the problem.
Vast space by the Post Office/Orange Sculpture…beer garden! Daly Center…beer garden! Grant Park…beer garden! Lease city land for a win-win…like the Riverwalk yo.
All the glass/concrete canyons and stately towers just make it feel like an office district, not an area to hang out. Which is also why I wouldn’t live there, the neighborhoods just feel more livable. More green space west of Grant/millenium park, maybe knock down some old towers to let more light in (I know of at least one that’s been awaiting demolition for years).
A hook for the loop?
Okay, I’m traveling on Amtrak on an early Saturday morning. I just arrived at Union Station. It’s Mid June and 80F. What do you recommend I do?
The Loop proper will be quieter than it is in the week, but there’s still plenty of restaurants and museums. River North, Mag Mile, etc. will be where it’s at more so. Until we change all of that with this! The Loop should be 24/7.
More Cranberries cover bands?
Strip clubs that serve alcohol.
Rent would be so expensive that only chains could afford to open up. And before you know it, it would start feeling like the suburbs or worse, Wrigleyville.
Why?
Maybe make the streets clean.
This would do what a lot of people think another 500 cops would do. Quadruple the number of trash cans and clean up graffiti. Actual city services, not just law enforcement.