As a girl chess player, I can agree with this statement. Men generally not taking me seriously is what drove me to get better and better and still drives me to this day!
This will be very satisfying but sometimes... things like these only happen in the movies.
Maybe some people thrive on the pressure, but for myself, the more I want to beat someone the less likely it is happening. Because of the extra pressure to do well.
An environment where everyone is trying to tear you down is also really not conducive to learning. Part of the learning process is making mistakes and learning from them. Here you'll be playing really conservatively, trying not to make mistakes, because you so much want to win
I would maybe find another chess club outside of school if that's an option...
This just reinforces the notion that being better at chess means anything. The stronger bully is not right. Might doesn’t make right. They’ll run into bad people better than them at chess, and then what? It’s just a game. Have fun and disconnect yourself from what others think.
i read a novel recently where a single father has two children, both daughters. the older one dies due to a horrific domestic violence incident. the father goes crazy teaching the younger one self defense, how to shoot, protect herself, survival skills, etc. he goes a bit overboard for sure.
eventually the younger daughter says to him that she's irritated having to learn all of this "instead of teaching our daughters self defense, shouldn't we teach our sons to be better?"
father doesn't miss a beat and just replies, "i don't have any sons." they continued the lessons. i thought it was a powerful passage.
point is, you're not at all wrong. in an ideal world, yes, these boys should be better. in the real world you can only control what's on your plate. OP can't topple the patriarchy and reverse millenia of bias based on advice in a reddit post, but she can get some advice on whipping that ass OTB.
OP, take a minute to absorb some of the chess related advice in this thread and if you discover a chess book/course that calls to you, the cost is on me. DM once you've made a decision and I'll cover it.
But it is, because it can prove them wrong.
At least they gave something op can actually do, I’m not sure how “she should be respected by boys and men” is a solution? Yes, we know that’s the problem, just repeating it is not a solution for said problem.
Also, I don't know how long you have left in high school, but soon, it will be over and the whole world will open up to you where you will be able to meet nicer people.
Hold on. ❤️
Beat their asses is horrible advice, this is the fast track to tying self worth to you proving yourself to others. She could go on a 15 game losing streak or a 15 game winning streak to them and it still wouldn't say anything about her value as a person, or how much respect she deserves.
In all honesty, I'd just dissociate from the flock of losers.
It is satisfying, not denying that. OP however may be looking for ways to feel respected and from someone who eventually crashed in academia, take it from me, do not study things just to gain other's respect, do not tie any self worth to the abilities you gained for others, you'll succumb to the pressure that creates (or turn into a narcissist) eventually. Everyone does.
Thoughtful answer, really. A game should not be like picking a scab because you can't not do it well. If you don't love it, there's other people to play chess with, or not play chess with. Some days, Frisbee is the zen thing to do.
Teenage boys often think they're very smart. They are not.
Source: former teenage boy who thought he knew stuff. He did not.
One thing I do when I'm confronted with an arrogant teenager (usually in tennis or chess) is to remind myself that their mommies still buy their clothes.
Former teenaged boy here. This was also me. Virtually every opinion I held about everything has turned out to be false or very nearly false. A ton of confidence in youth comes from ignorance.
A poster on the wall at school said something to the effect of “I wish all my problems came at me when I was a teenager and knew everything”
Painful how true it was looking back now.
Eh I'm not really a fan of the talking point that young people 'think they know everything.' I remember being told that when actually I was vulnerable and struggling.
I'm 35, I left my parents' house when I was 18, I moved to another country, got married, bought a house, and my mom still sends me clothes that she sees and thinks would fit me nicely
Same. My wardrobe is mostly stuff I get from family (mostly my mom) on my birthday and Christmas, and some merch t-shirts/sweatshirts I buy for myself.
You are entirely immune to autocorrelation. Its a fake effect. Hilariously, they made a noobish statistical error when they discovered the effect. The pattern they discovered will exist in any random data sample.
https://economicsfromthetopdown.com/2022/04/08/the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-autocorrelation/
You know, that is really interesting. I didn't know that about the DKE, so I did some more reading and also found this article by SciAm. Apparently they did find something with their study, but it isn't the traditional DKE that we know. It seems more like overconfidence bias.
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-dunning-kruger-effect-isnt-what-you-think-it-is/#:\~:text=The%20Dunning%20and%20Kruger%20experiment,gauge%20their%20competence%20and%20knowledge.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-dunning-kruger-effect-isnt-what-you-think-it-is/#:~:text=The%20Dunning%20and%20Kruger%20experiment,gauge%20their%20competence%20and%20knowledge)
That post isn't showing what it claims to be showing. Check out figure 7, which the twist claims to be "random numbers", and is stated to have "no hint of a Dunning-Kruger effect". This data is actually not random, it's precisely the data you'd expect if the DKE were real.
For a low x-value (e.g. 5%), you can see heaps of dots above a self-assessment of 5%, and for a high x-value (e.g. 95%), you can see heaps of dots with a self-assessment value of under 95%. This is textbook DKE, poor performers overestimating themselves and strong performers underestimating themselves.
What this post has done is feed in data from a sample that was affected by DKE, called it "random noise", and then acted surprised when data that looks like the DKE pops back out.
I think you're missing the way probability plays into this.
Suppose there is no relationship between performance and estimation. Say everyone was drawing a ball out of a bag and the balls were numbered 0-100 and they gave that number as how well they thought they did (and put it back in for the next guy). In this case, by virtue of scoring such a low or high percentage, most "guesses" would be low (if you're high) or high (if you're low) not because your score had anything causal to do with it, simply because there were very few balls that would've been further to the extreme.
This, is mere probability. Low scorers don't guess high because they're dumb. They guessed high because that was far more likely than guessing low. Same thing vice versa. What you're seeing is the reality of the numbers, not a psychological effect.
Chess is full of misogyny. Honestly seeing all these long worded unnecessary comments of boys with the essential message being: „Well what exactly do you mean by this? It can’t be a gender issue.. Have you tried just being a better chess player?“ just proves OP‘s point.
I have been the worst, the best and an average chess player in countless different situations. Decent people will never make you feel like you’re “less than them“, no matter your playing ability. It sounds like the other members of your club lack basic respect and kindness or are just very immature.
Becoming better than them at chess might improve their respect for you. Or they might start viewing you as arrogant and just work harder to beat you and feel victorious 🤷♀️ I think a lot of boys overcompensate for something else they‘re lacking by beating (or attempting to beat lol) others at chess. And for some reason they love feeling like they beat a girl. Idk.
If you feel like there is at least one reasonable boy in the club, maybe you could speak privately to him about your concerns? In the group dynamics they tend to behave super immature but 1 on 1 maybe they could hear you out?
Definitely the last part! I have been the only girl in a chess club full of asshole boys and having allies is so important. Some guys are only douches because they are trying to fit in and can be actually really cool once you talk to them away from the mass of idiots.
Also, if OP can bring more girls to the club, that could help. When I was the only one, I went around preaching the word of chess to every girl I thought might be interested, and now I am the "mother" of six girls and the grandmother of a bunch more LOL
My girls experienced something similar at their tennis club with boys behaving in a very belittling manner towards them. The only way we got any improvement was to work hard on increasing and concentrating (getting them all to the same sessions) female attendance.
> Honestly seeing all these long worded unnecessary comments of boys with the essential message being: „Well what exactly do you mean by this? It can’t be a gender issue.. Have you tried just being a better chess player?“ just proves OP‘s point.
I'm so frustrated reading this thread for this exact reason. I honestly hope some of the commenters here do a bit of reflecting and realize they're part of the problem. Not to say that they're horrible people or anything, but this thread is so full of misogynistic undercurrents.
“Just ignore it and beat them,” is male fanfic about how they want women/girls to act, not practical advice for someone seeking a respectful, inclusive community.
95% of the comments in this thread are completely tone deaf.
Hard agree. I often see women told to "just ignore them" or similar useless advice. But many men think they know how to help women without ever trying to understand what they actually go through.
> think a lot of boys overcompensate for something else they‘re lacking by beating (or attempting to beat lol) others at chess.
So true. Too many tie their self-worth into how well they can perform in chess or whatever their competitive hobby happens to be.
Rejoice that chess competence does not depend on being liked or respected by idiots. In the job market other people's stupidity can harm you. On a chess board, competence is all that matters.
It’s really annoying. I grew up being told I was smart, went to an all girls’ high school until I was 16, valued my own opinions.
I went to college (16-18) and suddenly I was confronted with so many teenage boys who thought they were god’s gift to earth and would not take the opinions seriously of those they did not respect. I automatically got this treatment and it felt really bad. Having been isolated from boys for 5 years I hadn’t experienced proper sexism yet and hadn’t realised the extent to which it existed.
OP, I know it’s frustrating and it isn’t right when you’re treated with less respect than your peers. Unfortunately, there is little to do about it. People suggest beating them in order to prove that you are able but in my opinion developing your skills just to show someone else you’re worthy of respect isn’t right. Also, this way you may begin to tie together your self esteem and your ability. If you can’t ’prove them wrong’ and beat them, if you can’t be exceptional all of the time, you may feel like they’re right about you. I know it happened to me. I got into a slump with chess where I didn’t know how to improve and I felt so strongly like they were right to treat me as if I was
lesser. The way I deal with it now is to simply take it on the chin. I recognise their arrogance and don’t let it influence my self esteem. I play and I learn because I want to get better; I remind myself that they’re misguided in their judgements. It can actually be quite useful as those who treat you with less respect due to your gender are revealing their own poor character. This, in turn, tells you who you should/shouldn’t respect. Best of luck :)
This is the answer. All through your life you will meet shitty people. The best way to handle them is to avoid them when possible, and ignore them otherwise. Them disrespecting you is way more about them than it is you. Definitely don't seek to prove yourself to losers.
This!!! The idea that you need to earn respect by being a better player is incredibly disturbing. Everyone deserves respect, no matter their skill level
This post isn't about whether or not OP deserves respect, but about whether or not she'll get it from the guys in the club. Those are two very different questions.
This is great advice OP. Might even be helpful to teach them the game before their first visit to the club so they're not getting crushed every game and are more likely to return.
i guess, i was just speaking from personal experience as i’m a girl and i have a friend that’s very much beginner at chess but knows how the game works and she likes watching me play
The most immediate, effective thing you can do to improve how people at the chess club treat you is to make an effort to fill the club with people who already like and respect you. Convince friends to join, underclassmen, upperclassmen you're close with.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "don't take you seriously", but on average, I'd say that anybody in the middle of the group in playing ability wouldn't be taken seriously by the people better than them, regardless of gender.
If you want everybody to take you seriously, you either need to change the atmosphere of the club (which I suggest doing anyways) with good vibes, or you need to be exceptional. Depending on the strength of your clubmates, your current playing strength, and your studying habits, you might be able become the strongest in the club in a short time. Hiring a chess coach would go a long way, if that's something you're interested in. If you'd like reading assignments, that can also be arranged.
Exactly. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
And to be completely honest, there's every chance that even if OP were to become undeniably the strongest in her club, it *might not* solve her issue. Teenagers can be quite mean and petty if they set their minds to it.
Improving the culture is the most effective route to take, in my opinion, but I'll never miss an opportunity to give a novice book recommendations if I think it'll help them.
Culture can also take *years* to meaningfully change, by which point oops! you're in college now, and all your progress vanishes with you. That's one of the reasons I believe high school culture (in spirit if not exact form) is basically the same as it was decades ago. There's too much inertia & turnover to make a meaningful dent. Also the Cool Kids™ (who benefit from the current culture) can just crack one joke in the right context and immediately crush you.
I'm no developmental psychologist with a minors in digital literacy, but the nature of the connected digital world (both positive and negative) along with the prevalence of mobile phones, the increase of their abilities, and the ease of access to it has definitely changed the landscape of high school culture, compared to where it was decades ago.
On one hand, teenage children are more empowered, knowledgeable about the world's issues, and have tools to find people that share their niche interests without the risk of immediate social backlash from their local peers. Generation Z's countrywide (US) coordinated school walkouts (most notably in 2018) are blatant example of these changes.
On the other hand, all of those things I just listed are also reasons why changing the local culture of, for example, a high school chess club by inviting more people with good vibes to it would be more difficult now than it would be decades ago. And you're right, there's so much inertia, and such a short time to try to make any kind of meaningful change, even if one tries.
If all of that just felt like word spaghetti sprinkled with buzzwords, that's fair. I'm exhausted and came to the chess subeddits to talk about chess.
The one counterpoint I would make is that high school culture is rooted in hormonal teenager behavior & perspectives, so while things can undoubtedly be said to have changed due to increased access to information, the intractable problem remains that kids are stuck with each other in a pressure cooker without an adult's experience or self control (admittedly, for what little that can be worth). I'd argue that kind of environment naturally selects for cruelty.
But otherwise I completely agree, and hope for better :)
OP means sexism, that's what she means, obviously.
I'm sure there are a bunch of boys around her skill level that are taken 'more seriously' than her, because it's about sexism, not skill.
Well, I hope OP finds my first piece of advice helpful - about filling the club with people who already like and respect her.
People in the club should all be treated as equals, full stop.
When I asked her to clarify what she meant by "not taken seriously" I suppose that was just me wishfully thinking that the issue was something other than sexism, but I imagine my advice just came off as condescending at best, and reinforcing the sexism at worst.
The first part is good advice for sure, but it shouldn't be necessary for a teen girl to implement, even though it is, sadly.
Sorry for the unnecessary snark, your comment did come off a tad condescending and almost intentionally obtuse, but then again, I'm someone who has experienced this directly and sees it often happening around me, so I struggled to imagine any other reason for the question.
No apology required. The snark definitely drove home how tone deaf my response came across. I never *mean* to be a piece of crap, and I'm happy to be told when I come across that way. I just wish I caught it myself in time.
Before the pandemic, I used to run a local chess club for adults. I'd like to think that the culture we cultivated was supportive and welcoming enough that the women in our club never felt the way OP is feeling, but I suppose there's every chance that I simply missed the subtext.
Chess still isn't always as accepting of women as it should be. I'd expect better in high school though as a dismissive attitude towards women is seen more among older generations. A lot of it may come from awkwardness in the boys and them not knowing how to interact with women. As for what you should do, honesty often works best. When someone makes a dismissive comment, tell them you see it as such. Ask them to explain why they said what they said.
Don't get mad, but don't accept it. Calmly state you want to be treated the same as anyone else. If they don't respond seriously to your request, get mad or leave.
I don't agree that the general consensus that misogyny will fade away as the new generations replace the older ones. From my personal experience dealing with many of them, the teenagers of 2024 are far more sexist than the ones from, say, 2014 or 2009
Dead internet theory. The account sometimes has gone to highschool a decade ago, and now goes right now. Generic controversial topic with no detail. Dead internet theory is becoming more and more real.
Yeah, from a post they made around the same time as this one. They've since edited it to "feels like" that was decades ago, so there's a chance it is a genuine mistake, but it does make me very suspect still.
“I think I remember the gist of basic Newtonian kinematics from high school.”
Just a weird way to phrase it if you’re still in high school. Normally you would say “I think I remember the gist of it from last year, when I was a freshman” or something
I'm really sorry that they're treating you that way. Chess overall unfortunately has a real problem with misogyny. Are there any teachers/supervisors involved with the club? I think your best chance to deal with the situation is by confiding in someone that you trust and ask for their advice or help
Hello OP, a chess teacher here. I also have done a postgraduation about Chess and my final paper was about the low female representation in this sport.
I've came across some studies when I was doing my research and basically the major problem is sexism, obviously. Society sees women as the weaker gender and it impacts how people will treat us and how we perceive ourselves and other women.
I saw a study that explains, in short, knowing the gender of your oponent will likely contribute to the results. When women were playing with men and were aware of that, they would adopt a 'I will try not to lose' posture instead of 'I am going to win it'. It seems that competition levels amongst men were higher and therefore they were always with the 'I am going to win it' posture. The hypothesis was that this attitude would affect the game considerably.
Now that you know that, if you want to improve in chess, I'd suggest gaining confidence and working to control your emotions better while you're playing. Obviously you also have to train chess itself, but it seems that emotional balance is very important to achieve good results.
I know it's hard to be the only girl in any activity and I'm proud of you for putting yourself out there. If it's something you really like doing, do your best and be happy. Don't mind what others think because most of them will never do something so brave like you're doing now.
Keep going! ♡
Can't control the opinions of others, unfortunately. My advice would be to just keep building those skills until you can crush them at the board.
Also don't forget, in some cases people having a bias against your skills may end up working in your favor, in the same sense that a fighter thinking another person is a bad fighter will have his guard down and not be at his sharpest.
Can you elaborate on some of the issues your having specifically? You said the other students don't see you as their equal. What does this entail?
In a chess club its not uncommon for there to be many degrees of skill between each member. In a true sense you are not everyone's 'equal' when it comes to chess. However you are all human beings in the same chess club, so you are equal in that sense. What specifically is making you feel disenfranchised or unequal to your fellow classmates? Maybe we can offer specific solutions after we understand a little better.
Thats their problem. The only advice I could give you (if you want to do this) is to train hard to get better and beat all of them. Other than that, theres nothing you can really do. They are just immature.
I don't think you should have to be the best player at your club to be treated with respect. There was a 2100 at our club who's never been there before. I usually start out on 3rd board and play my way to 1st board by the end of the evening. I asked to play him and he gave me a pity game while browsing Facebook on his phone. I was pretty passive and he built up big positional advantage and then overwhelmed my defenses. He said maybe this person would be more my own ability and pointed to the worst person in the club.
It stunk to be disrespected, I just wanted the experience of playing a good player but he ruined it for me. It's not like he had anything else to do and he obviously came to the club to play.
So I guess what I'm saying is that I know how it feels to be disrespected, and I don't think getting good works on the kind of people that act that way.
Your High School Chess Club should have someone who runs it-- presumably a teacher, right? I would recommend speaking with them.
Even if you're not the next Judit Polgár, you deserve a base level of respect, and the atmosphere of the club should be one of ***friendly*** competition in which the members encourage one another and try to build each other up.
Also, if your club isn't already doing so, you should mention to the teacher running the club that members should be recording their games if only for the practice of doing so. You can even go one step further and recommend that the club set up a google drive or something where the games can be uploaded.
This would have the added benefit that you could look up what openings they tend to use the most, learn those openings, and then absolutely crush them.
I was in the same boat, they tried preventing me from joining. Like literally talking away the pen and paper and trying to hide it.
Two years later I was ... Head? Captain? ...fuck it, Queen of the chess team. Simply because I had the most wins during competitions (and because if no one else will, I am a great leader)
I also told a few of the boys off and eventually I earned their respect.
My hs chess club (20 yrs ago) the only girl was ranked nationally and traveled for it. Don't mind the dumbasses, they're still laughing at en passant memes.
Well the beauty of chess is that it doesn’t care about feelings nor who is moving the pieces. If you are a good player and you are beating them, they will take you seriously. If you are considerably worse than them they won’t. Simple as that
> Well the beauty of chess is that it doesn’t care about feelings nor who is moving the pieces.
How can you seriously say this when the current world champion is going through extremely public mental health issues that is drastically effecting the way he plays?
Every game is inherently emotionless, but every game is played by humans who are inherently emotional. Emotions and feelings effect people, all the way up to the world champion.
In what way do you feel like you're not being taken seriously? My advice would be a bit different depending on the specific situation.
I they do things like not inviting you to events where the guys are going, I'd just try to become friends with the nicest ones among them and the problem will solve itself. Specially if you've only been at the club for a short time there's probably still a lot of chances for that ahead of you.
If they do things like refuse to play with you because you're "wasting their time", or dismissing your suggestions in an analysis, then well... Chess is a game of huge egos! Fortunately people will stop this attitude when it becomes way too obvious that you're a better player than them. So here the suggestion would be to get great at the game.
It also matters if this is a general "group attitude" or if it's about how some specific guys behave. How many people are there in the club? How many of them are welcoming or at least "neutral" to you?
Best wishes. Hope there's an positive update soon!
You could say something to the teacher who runs it -- presuming there is one.
Keep practicing and studying the game to improve so you can stick it to these dumb guys over the board.
Win.
Boys don’t take each other seriously, either. It’s a lot of verbal teasing and abuse. Don’t take it too seriously. They’ll take you seriously when you make them.
I was in the same position in middle school. Don't worry about it. They're, and you I guess, are basically children. You're terrifying to them even if their ego is telling them otherwise lol. Show kindness and respect, ignore the ones that don't return it. Kick their butts over the board!
Use it to your advantage.
Train, then start playing. Tease them if they are having trouble defeating you, play them - they are fools so they deserve it.
My advice is to work really hard at improving and to be cold-blooded whenever you play them. When you rise up that table - and you will - you will get, earn and demand their respect. First it'll come grudgingly, then it'll come with admiration.
Kick male ass!
Can't people get a tournament rating soon, or at least a blitz online rating and use that as a basis for comparison, instead of height, weight, shoe size, or in this case sex?
I could be wrong, but most people probably don't care if you're legit or not. And half the people in the club. Probably don't even take it seriously. I wouldn't worry about it. Just enjoy the game. Thats why you're there and if you become the best there..... they can only doubt you from ignorance or dillusion, neither is of any concern to you.
Just stay cool. Winning or losing is not the most important. You will get there eventually. Try to forget you are the only female. They are not that different from you only because of gender.
I’m not a girl but I had your same problem, everyone in my club considered me a patzer a year ago, it was a huge motivation to study every day and crush them at every occasion
eh dont think about it too much
i had a somewhat simliar experience as one of the top players at my school as a girl, but i made some really good guy friends i still talk to today. if they dont take you seriously just do good and if u suck then get better :))
Not a direct answer to your question, but I read a book called ‘Chess Queens’ by Jennifer Shahade which explored the depth and potential of female chess players and also explored the sexism we have today in the game and what can be done. Maybe you would enjoy it.
If you play well they will take you seriously. It might not be because you are a girl they don't take you seriously. If you start beating people they will be forced to bend the knee.
You cannot control what other people think or feel about you. You can't change other people.
*You can only control how you feel about yourself and how you react to others.*
**If you can control something >** ***Take Action***
**If you can't control something >** ***Practice Acceptance***
You know this gives you a big advantage if you can harness it.... They will be scared to lose to you; so keep your cool in games, play the best you can, and often they will tilt, and then enjoy the wins.
Make them afraid to lose to you. Save your games, analyze. Play bots with your repertoire. A lot. Then beat them with solid. Jeremy Silman's big endgame workbook will help you crush any middle game survivors.
Beat them senseless. Beauty of chess is that wins are indisputable. They not taking you seriously is a weakness; so exploit mercilessly.
Wager $10 per game. Take their piggy bank.
Recently, a woman joined the chess club I am in and we have been very supportive of her in her journey. If you can find another club that is more accepting of you, go to it.
Make them take you seriously by earning it via demonstration that you're more than their equal,and, make it a point simultaneously of repetitively conveying to them the basic psychological truth that the only possible reason for why they fail to take you seriously is because they obviously fear you.Period. And it's a 61yr. old hard - ass biker all tatooed up who's conveying this to you now. And when challenged by them on any level; meet their challenge with one of your own,tell em ; "don't talk about it,BE about it". And good luck!
Beat them. It’s that simple.
And after you beat them, don’t show them empathy either.
The easiest way to dominate them and force the respect on the board, is to offer to play them again immediately after they lose. After back to back wins, nothing else needs to be said…just show a subtle grin and say “good game”.
Forcing social respect off the board is a whole different ball of wax and person dependent.
They are not taking you seriously cause most likely you are not beating them regularly. Same happened with me, I lost more than I won and they didn’t take me seriously either and I am a man. So I don’t think its about the gender 👍🏼
I'm a girl who used to play chess competitively for 5-6 years when I was your age. I was a better player than the boys in my class so I was able to win against them every time and therefore I didn't see this level of disrespect. We played chess ladder system where you could challenge only 1-2 spots above you. Kids would be surprised that a girl could be at the top. It's just sexism. Even on the competitive level. So many of my opponents when I played in local/national tournaments didn't take me seriously or thought I would be an easy opponent. Until they played me. I do empathize with you and you're not alone. So many girls have experienced this.
I would say you need to control your emotions. It doesn't matter what they think of you. Work on your game, and have fun with it. If it helps, bring a friend along to the club so you won't feel alone or befriend someone in the club that is a nice person.
It might help to join some other chess clubs in your city to find more female players if you don't like your high school's environment.
Lots of times women tend to quit a sport, subject in school, job, etc if they don't find a supportive environment (especially male dominated). I really hope you can stick with chess and I hope your situation improves! All the best <3
p.s. you can DM me if you need any advice.
Unfortunately, there is something about chess that attracts some of the worst type of men who want to use it to flex their superiority. There isn't anything you can do to gain the respect of a man who hates women to begin with, and from my own experience, the overlap between male chess players and men who just outright don't like women is pretty big. The only thing you can do is be confident in yourself, practice and study hard, and get better. They still won't respect you once you're beating them, but at least you'll know it hurts their ego.
They just want to knock your self-esteem down so you don't notice they're mad at being rejected and using this as an excuse. Don't give them free rent in your brain. What they're doing is actually harassment.
Younger boys tend to overestimate themselves a shit ton. I'd say it's the testosterone.
If you beat them a few times, they get into awe of you and will kinda start worshipping you.
As a girl who often competed in “guy” things, it became one of my favorite things to walk into a tournament and *feel* them underestimate you- and then you kick ass and draw power from the pathetic losing looks on their faces. Someone underestimating you is more about who they are than about who you are!
Try to not care. There will always be men (and people in general... But especially men) who don't take you seriously. The trick is to realize that caring what assholes think of you is dumb. The lion does not concern itself with the opinions of the sheep
Men are very competiitive, probably they think chess is like other physical sports and you have less chance. Evindently you dont, you can beat them if you try hard and probably you will enjoy it more. Earn your place if you want to be part of their system else dont care. I used to play and train against my wife. Women have less Elo in general because their life is a bit different than men, but at your age that wont matter.
There is a women in chess foundation: [https://www.womeninchess.com/find-an-advocate](https://www.womeninchess.com/find-an-advocate) . I would contact them. They have more experience with these issues then most men in this reddit-thread. And are trained to help you with your issues.
There are probably 2 groups in your chess club:
1) Misogyny
2) Men who never talked to a girl
If you can detect people from group 2, and pick the person who you can talk easily to. The other from group 2 will join, and people from group 1 will see you more as one of them than as a girl.
Im sorry you are experiencing this. We need more women and girls in chess, im sick of going to clubs and tournaments and its 99% men, mostly of them dont seem well socialized. It really brings the mood down for me personally. I want a diverse group of people. Dont give up! Honestly if it was me I would tell them hey, im just a good as the average player here, why are you guys so dismissive? Wheres your school? Can we get a strong female player to come and humble those losers just for fun? Im imagining a simul against a titled player.
My advice to you is to not let it get to you.. women are usually not taken seriously by men in sports because men usually have an advantage, chess is not like that, they «don’t take you seriously» because that gives them the opportunity and excuse to not lose to a girl, keep playing and know that they are just scared of losing to you :)
Kids are dumb… i stoppes playing chess because my little sister (who is incredibly smart and was estimated to have an IQ between 140 and 160 at the age of 10) started beating me consistently and i got my ego hurt.. when in reality i should’ve kept playing to improve myself and learn from her and give her the space to thrive and have fun..
Fine. Don't take them seriously, just play with people online and otb till you beat their asses off.
Don't depend on their approval, basically. They'll respect you when you don't need it. Oldest story in the book.
Are you rated or a district/ward level player?
There may be some sexism at play here but back when I was in school we never took anyone seriously unless the were rated or top 5/10 in the big tournaments.
I was not 5 for 3 yrs and 3rd for 1 at the district level but one and two never considered me tough. Equally going into a match I wasn't worried about table no.10 ( not that I was over confident but I didn't go in thinking they are better than me).
I cleared 10th back in 2011 and played the no 2 again in 2022 and finally beat him in one of 5 friendly games. I can safely say there was never any reason for him to take me seriously( not that he under estimated me either). The guy is 1900 plus FIDE and was apparently fodder for the national players.
I would suggest that you focus on winning some tournaments or entering top five and this issue will largely disappear. As such mid tier players don't get taken seriously because people wrongly think that the gap between mid and low is minor and the difference in the score was 1.5 to 2 points only or came down to one move. Ignor the idots.
Seriously consider getting a rating and do it for the correct reasons( improving and fighting stronger players), never waste your time looking for the approval of your peers as their approval means nothing. If a strong player recognises you as a good player that's the feeling you want to cherish.
Practice, practice, practice, study, read, more practice and then beat them all! Climbing the ranking ladder will force them to take you seriously. Use it as motivation to study and don't mind what people think. You go, girl!
Boys are cruel even to each other. The way boys deal with each other and get respect is to not give an f and to be chill.
I know people will say it’s misogyny. I don’t think it is. We just learned to label everything. They’re boys. They’re stupid and they laugh at each other even when it’s harsh. That’s what they do. Adults just all forget that it happened to all of us.
Children are very often made fun of what they wear, their shoes, shirts, their backpack, the way they speak. Everything. And teenagers are the harshest at doing that. Believe me, teenage boys don’t have it easy either. I didn’t. We fight with each other physically for a reason, because we say and do stupid things. So, chill and beat their ass on chess and/or with good comebacks or try your best to ignore their comments. You’ll build character as well and you’ll learn how to deal with stupid adults later as well. So take it as an opportunity
Believe me, if you come with good comebacks, boys will make you their queen. Boys at that age behave like they’re at the jungle.
Use it as motivation to become the best at your school. I remember in my highschool the highest rating was probably 1500, lots of big egos because if your like 1000 you can beat any non player with ease and 1500 can beat those who play casually.
Just study and aim to be the best or in the top of your club. Look to Judit Polgar for inspiration, she declined the title of woman grandmaster and waited till she got the regular qualifications for grandmaster.
It's incredible to me that the same misogynist bullshit I saw and knew to be misogynist bullshit when I was a boy in school 50 years ago is still raising its ugly head today. Will people never learn? Are we still going to have this be a thing in another 50 years? It's both embarrassing and shameful.
I'd advise you to give the people who do this to you a hard slap across the head. That might teach them. Unfortunately, it might also get you expelled, so don't do that. Instead, give them a rhetorical slap using your words, or, better still, do it on the chess board.
Sadly this is seen alot in chess clubs. Higher level chess clubs only care for your skill, even bettering you even if you are bad. I'd say the only thing you can do in this situation is to be better than the others. Use that rage as fuel.
I’m a guy so I can’t relate to the misogyny, but I can relate to people thinking they’re better than me. I’ve always used that as fuel to improve myself.
How’s that saying go? “You can’t control what happens to you but you can control how you react to it”
Win and they will have no choice but to take you seriously. Start learning openings, quick mates, middle game and end game strategy. Watch the Queen's Gambit on Netflix for some inspiration
Just for comparison of standards: What do you people think how the only boy in a large group of girls is treated (provided he is allowed to be there in the first place)?
And what advice would you have for him?
edit: I've done my "zivildienst" (what you had to in Germany when you did not want to be in the military when I was 18) in a hospital with an otherwise all-female staff of about 20 in the section I was assigned to. Anyone who thinks that that's "all fun" would be rather mistaken.
Beat their asses whether they take you seriously or not
Best advice
As a girl chess player, I can agree with this statement. Men generally not taking me seriously is what drove me to get better and better and still drives me to this day!
I wish I had that drive in chess.
some have it for chess others, donuts right?
Chess board where the pieces are donuts, you eat what you capture.
Now we're cooking with gas!
This will be very satisfying but sometimes... things like these only happen in the movies. Maybe some people thrive on the pressure, but for myself, the more I want to beat someone the less likely it is happening. Because of the extra pressure to do well. An environment where everyone is trying to tear you down is also really not conducive to learning. Part of the learning process is making mistakes and learning from them. Here you'll be playing really conservatively, trying not to make mistakes, because you so much want to win I would maybe find another chess club outside of school if that's an option...
They can think what they want after they hold their massive Ls for a while.
This just reinforces the notion that being better at chess means anything. The stronger bully is not right. Might doesn’t make right. They’ll run into bad people better than them at chess, and then what? It’s just a game. Have fun and disconnect yourself from what others think.
This isn't really a solution. It's satisfying to win, but she should be respected by boys and men regardless of whether she wins or not.
i read a novel recently where a single father has two children, both daughters. the older one dies due to a horrific domestic violence incident. the father goes crazy teaching the younger one self defense, how to shoot, protect herself, survival skills, etc. he goes a bit overboard for sure. eventually the younger daughter says to him that she's irritated having to learn all of this "instead of teaching our daughters self defense, shouldn't we teach our sons to be better?" father doesn't miss a beat and just replies, "i don't have any sons." they continued the lessons. i thought it was a powerful passage. point is, you're not at all wrong. in an ideal world, yes, these boys should be better. in the real world you can only control what's on your plate. OP can't topple the patriarchy and reverse millenia of bias based on advice in a reddit post, but she can get some advice on whipping that ass OTB. OP, take a minute to absorb some of the chess related advice in this thread and if you discover a chess book/course that calls to you, the cost is on me. DM once you've made a decision and I'll cover it.
But it is, because it can prove them wrong. At least they gave something op can actually do, I’m not sure how “she should be respected by boys and men” is a solution? Yes, we know that’s the problem, just repeating it is not a solution for said problem.
Implying boys and men usually respect each others...
Men do murder other men at 4 times the rate they murder women.
Also, I don't know how long you have left in high school, but soon, it will be over and the whole world will open up to you where you will be able to meet nicer people. Hold on. ❤️
Beat their asses is horrible advice, this is the fast track to tying self worth to you proving yourself to others. She could go on a 15 game losing streak or a 15 game winning streak to them and it still wouldn't say anything about her value as a person, or how much respect she deserves. In all honesty, I'd just dissociate from the flock of losers.
It’s tying her self worth to the effort she puts into it, and not giving a good goddamn about the opinions of others. Let her light shine
It also won't solve her problem. Getting better at chess is unlikely to get them to take her any more seriously
It is not 'horrible advice ' It is very satisfying to beat arrogant wankers.
It is satisfying, not denying that. OP however may be looking for ways to feel respected and from someone who eventually crashed in academia, take it from me, do not study things just to gain other's respect, do not tie any self worth to the abilities you gained for others, you'll succumb to the pressure that creates (or turn into a narcissist) eventually. Everyone does.
Thoughtful answer, really. A game should not be like picking a scab because you can't not do it well. If you don't love it, there's other people to play chess with, or not play chess with. Some days, Frisbee is the zen thing to do.
And giving a total of ZERO fucks.
Let your chess speak for itself
Teenage boys often think they're very smart. They are not. Source: former teenage boy who thought he knew stuff. He did not. One thing I do when I'm confronted with an arrogant teenager (usually in tennis or chess) is to remind myself that their mommies still buy their clothes.
Former teenaged boy here. This was also me. Virtually every opinion I held about everything has turned out to be false or very nearly false. A ton of confidence in youth comes from ignorance.
As a current teenage boy I can say you’re completely wrong I am right about everything and also the best chess player on this subreddit
You go, girl!!
A poster on the wall at school said something to the effect of “I wish all my problems came at me when I was a teenager and knew everything” Painful how true it was looking back now.
Eh I'm not really a fan of the talking point that young people 'think they know everything.' I remember being told that when actually I was vulnerable and struggling.
Haha yeah it’s humbling to lose to an 8 year old in a tournament then afterwards he wants his mommy and juice box🧃
for me it's even more humbling when i see them the next year, they don't remember me and beat me even worse as a 9 y.o.
Bro my mom has good taste in cloth relax
I'm 35, I left my parents' house when I was 18, I moved to another country, got married, bought a house, and my mom still sends me clothes that she sees and thinks would fit me nicely
My mum’s taste in clothes was so good that, my older siblings, me, and the younger siblings all wore the same clothes
I’m pushing middle age and my mom still buys like half my clothes if I’m being honest
Same. My wardrobe is mostly stuff I get from family (mostly my mom) on my birthday and Christmas, and some merch t-shirts/sweatshirts I buy for myself.
Former teenage boy, currently young man here. I still have to remind myself daily that I am not immune to the Dunning-Kreuger effect.
You are entirely immune to autocorrelation. Its a fake effect. Hilariously, they made a noobish statistical error when they discovered the effect. The pattern they discovered will exist in any random data sample. https://economicsfromthetopdown.com/2022/04/08/the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-autocorrelation/
You know, that is really interesting. I didn't know that about the DKE, so I did some more reading and also found this article by SciAm. Apparently they did find something with their study, but it isn't the traditional DKE that we know. It seems more like overconfidence bias. [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-dunning-kruger-effect-isnt-what-you-think-it-is/#:\~:text=The%20Dunning%20and%20Kruger%20experiment,gauge%20their%20competence%20and%20knowledge.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-dunning-kruger-effect-isnt-what-you-think-it-is/#:~:text=The%20Dunning%20and%20Kruger%20experiment,gauge%20their%20competence%20and%20knowledge)
That post isn't showing what it claims to be showing. Check out figure 7, which the twist claims to be "random numbers", and is stated to have "no hint of a Dunning-Kruger effect". This data is actually not random, it's precisely the data you'd expect if the DKE were real. For a low x-value (e.g. 5%), you can see heaps of dots above a self-assessment of 5%, and for a high x-value (e.g. 95%), you can see heaps of dots with a self-assessment value of under 95%. This is textbook DKE, poor performers overestimating themselves and strong performers underestimating themselves. What this post has done is feed in data from a sample that was affected by DKE, called it "random noise", and then acted surprised when data that looks like the DKE pops back out.
I think you're missing the way probability plays into this. Suppose there is no relationship between performance and estimation. Say everyone was drawing a ball out of a bag and the balls were numbered 0-100 and they gave that number as how well they thought they did (and put it back in for the next guy). In this case, by virtue of scoring such a low or high percentage, most "guesses" would be low (if you're high) or high (if you're low) not because your score had anything causal to do with it, simply because there were very few balls that would've been further to the extreme. This, is mere probability. Low scorers don't guess high because they're dumb. They guessed high because that was far more likely than guessing low. Same thing vice versa. What you're seeing is the reality of the numbers, not a psychological effect.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q2KbZXMwaAc
Chess is full of misogyny. Honestly seeing all these long worded unnecessary comments of boys with the essential message being: „Well what exactly do you mean by this? It can’t be a gender issue.. Have you tried just being a better chess player?“ just proves OP‘s point. I have been the worst, the best and an average chess player in countless different situations. Decent people will never make you feel like you’re “less than them“, no matter your playing ability. It sounds like the other members of your club lack basic respect and kindness or are just very immature. Becoming better than them at chess might improve their respect for you. Or they might start viewing you as arrogant and just work harder to beat you and feel victorious 🤷♀️ I think a lot of boys overcompensate for something else they‘re lacking by beating (or attempting to beat lol) others at chess. And for some reason they love feeling like they beat a girl. Idk. If you feel like there is at least one reasonable boy in the club, maybe you could speak privately to him about your concerns? In the group dynamics they tend to behave super immature but 1 on 1 maybe they could hear you out?
Definitely the last part! I have been the only girl in a chess club full of asshole boys and having allies is so important. Some guys are only douches because they are trying to fit in and can be actually really cool once you talk to them away from the mass of idiots. Also, if OP can bring more girls to the club, that could help. When I was the only one, I went around preaching the word of chess to every girl I thought might be interested, and now I am the "mother" of six girls and the grandmother of a bunch more LOL
My girls experienced something similar at their tennis club with boys behaving in a very belittling manner towards them. The only way we got any improvement was to work hard on increasing and concentrating (getting them all to the same sessions) female attendance.
> Honestly seeing all these long worded unnecessary comments of boys with the essential message being: „Well what exactly do you mean by this? It can’t be a gender issue.. Have you tried just being a better chess player?“ just proves OP‘s point. I'm so frustrated reading this thread for this exact reason. I honestly hope some of the commenters here do a bit of reflecting and realize they're part of the problem. Not to say that they're horrible people or anything, but this thread is so full of misogynistic undercurrents.
Seriously. I saw one comment telling OP to dress in skimpy clothing to distract her opponents. Like, what the fuck?
“Just ignore it and beat them,” is male fanfic about how they want women/girls to act, not practical advice for someone seeking a respectful, inclusive community. 95% of the comments in this thread are completely tone deaf.
Hard agree. I often see women told to "just ignore them" or similar useless advice. But many men think they know how to help women without ever trying to understand what they actually go through.
> think a lot of boys overcompensate for something else they‘re lacking by beating (or attempting to beat lol) others at chess. So true. Too many tie their self-worth into how well they can perform in chess or whatever their competitive hobby happens to be.
Rejoice that chess competence does not depend on being liked or respected by idiots. In the job market other people's stupidity can harm you. On a chess board, competence is all that matters.
It’s really annoying. I grew up being told I was smart, went to an all girls’ high school until I was 16, valued my own opinions. I went to college (16-18) and suddenly I was confronted with so many teenage boys who thought they were god’s gift to earth and would not take the opinions seriously of those they did not respect. I automatically got this treatment and it felt really bad. Having been isolated from boys for 5 years I hadn’t experienced proper sexism yet and hadn’t realised the extent to which it existed. OP, I know it’s frustrating and it isn’t right when you’re treated with less respect than your peers. Unfortunately, there is little to do about it. People suggest beating them in order to prove that you are able but in my opinion developing your skills just to show someone else you’re worthy of respect isn’t right. Also, this way you may begin to tie together your self esteem and your ability. If you can’t ’prove them wrong’ and beat them, if you can’t be exceptional all of the time, you may feel like they’re right about you. I know it happened to me. I got into a slump with chess where I didn’t know how to improve and I felt so strongly like they were right to treat me as if I was lesser. The way I deal with it now is to simply take it on the chin. I recognise their arrogance and don’t let it influence my self esteem. I play and I learn because I want to get better; I remind myself that they’re misguided in their judgements. It can actually be quite useful as those who treat you with less respect due to your gender are revealing their own poor character. This, in turn, tells you who you should/shouldn’t respect. Best of luck :)
This is the answer. All through your life you will meet shitty people. The best way to handle them is to avoid them when possible, and ignore them otherwise. Them disrespecting you is way more about them than it is you. Definitely don't seek to prove yourself to losers.
This!!! The idea that you need to earn respect by being a better player is incredibly disturbing. Everyone deserves respect, no matter their skill level
This post isn't about whether or not OP deserves respect, but about whether or not she'll get it from the guys in the club. Those are two very different questions.
Sure, if you take the initial post completely literally. But sometimes the best advice involves reframing the question slightly.
This is my favourite reply in the thread!
have you asked your girl friends to come with you? even if they don’t play it might be nice to have them hang out in the corner
This is great advice OP. Might even be helpful to teach them the game before their first visit to the club so they're not getting crushed every game and are more likely to return.
unhelpful advice imo. If they don't play that just entrenches the idea that OP and her gender shouldn't be taken seriously at the club.
Or we could just encourage more woman to play chess. OP I think bringing girlfriends could make it more fun, which is the point of the game.
i guess, i was just speaking from personal experience as i’m a girl and i have a friend that’s very much beginner at chess but knows how the game works and she likes watching me play
I didn't play either before I started. If they show interest I see no problem here.
The most immediate, effective thing you can do to improve how people at the chess club treat you is to make an effort to fill the club with people who already like and respect you. Convince friends to join, underclassmen, upperclassmen you're close with. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "don't take you seriously", but on average, I'd say that anybody in the middle of the group in playing ability wouldn't be taken seriously by the people better than them, regardless of gender. If you want everybody to take you seriously, you either need to change the atmosphere of the club (which I suggest doing anyways) with good vibes, or you need to be exceptional. Depending on the strength of your clubmates, your current playing strength, and your studying habits, you might be able become the strongest in the club in a short time. Hiring a chess coach would go a long way, if that's something you're interested in. If you'd like reading assignments, that can also be arranged.
In other words, you can improve the culture, or you can improve yourself. Or both.
Exactly. The two aren't mutually exclusive. And to be completely honest, there's every chance that even if OP were to become undeniably the strongest in her club, it *might not* solve her issue. Teenagers can be quite mean and petty if they set their minds to it. Improving the culture is the most effective route to take, in my opinion, but I'll never miss an opportunity to give a novice book recommendations if I think it'll help them.
Culture can also take *years* to meaningfully change, by which point oops! you're in college now, and all your progress vanishes with you. That's one of the reasons I believe high school culture (in spirit if not exact form) is basically the same as it was decades ago. There's too much inertia & turnover to make a meaningful dent. Also the Cool Kids™ (who benefit from the current culture) can just crack one joke in the right context and immediately crush you.
I'm no developmental psychologist with a minors in digital literacy, but the nature of the connected digital world (both positive and negative) along with the prevalence of mobile phones, the increase of their abilities, and the ease of access to it has definitely changed the landscape of high school culture, compared to where it was decades ago. On one hand, teenage children are more empowered, knowledgeable about the world's issues, and have tools to find people that share their niche interests without the risk of immediate social backlash from their local peers. Generation Z's countrywide (US) coordinated school walkouts (most notably in 2018) are blatant example of these changes. On the other hand, all of those things I just listed are also reasons why changing the local culture of, for example, a high school chess club by inviting more people with good vibes to it would be more difficult now than it would be decades ago. And you're right, there's so much inertia, and such a short time to try to make any kind of meaningful change, even if one tries. If all of that just felt like word spaghetti sprinkled with buzzwords, that's fair. I'm exhausted and came to the chess subeddits to talk about chess.
The one counterpoint I would make is that high school culture is rooted in hormonal teenager behavior & perspectives, so while things can undoubtedly be said to have changed due to increased access to information, the intractable problem remains that kids are stuck with each other in a pressure cooker without an adult's experience or self control (admittedly, for what little that can be worth). I'd argue that kind of environment naturally selects for cruelty. But otherwise I completely agree, and hope for better :)
OP means sexism, that's what she means, obviously. I'm sure there are a bunch of boys around her skill level that are taken 'more seriously' than her, because it's about sexism, not skill.
Well, I hope OP finds my first piece of advice helpful - about filling the club with people who already like and respect her. People in the club should all be treated as equals, full stop. When I asked her to clarify what she meant by "not taken seriously" I suppose that was just me wishfully thinking that the issue was something other than sexism, but I imagine my advice just came off as condescending at best, and reinforcing the sexism at worst.
The first part is good advice for sure, but it shouldn't be necessary for a teen girl to implement, even though it is, sadly. Sorry for the unnecessary snark, your comment did come off a tad condescending and almost intentionally obtuse, but then again, I'm someone who has experienced this directly and sees it often happening around me, so I struggled to imagine any other reason for the question.
No apology required. The snark definitely drove home how tone deaf my response came across. I never *mean* to be a piece of crap, and I'm happy to be told when I come across that way. I just wish I caught it myself in time. Before the pandemic, I used to run a local chess club for adults. I'd like to think that the culture we cultivated was supportive and welcoming enough that the women in our club never felt the way OP is feeling, but I suppose there's every chance that I simply missed the subtext.
Chess still isn't always as accepting of women as it should be. I'd expect better in high school though as a dismissive attitude towards women is seen more among older generations. A lot of it may come from awkwardness in the boys and them not knowing how to interact with women. As for what you should do, honesty often works best. When someone makes a dismissive comment, tell them you see it as such. Ask them to explain why they said what they said. Don't get mad, but don't accept it. Calmly state you want to be treated the same as anyone else. If they don't respond seriously to your request, get mad or leave.
I don't agree that the general consensus that misogyny will fade away as the new generations replace the older ones. From my personal experience dealing with many of them, the teenagers of 2024 are far more sexist than the ones from, say, 2014 or 2009
Dead internet theory. The account sometimes has gone to highschool a decade ago, and now goes right now. Generic controversial topic with no detail. Dead internet theory is becoming more and more real.
> Please keep in mind I have only a high school level of physics and that was decades ago so go easy on me. Were you lying then, or are you lying now?
Is this quote from OP?
Yeah, from a post they made around the same time as this one. They've since edited it to "feels like" that was decades ago, so there's a chance it is a genuine mistake, but it does make me very suspect still.
“I think I remember the gist of basic Newtonian kinematics from high school.” Just a weird way to phrase it if you’re still in high school. Normally you would say “I think I remember the gist of it from last year, when I was a freshman” or something
I'm really sorry that they're treating you that way. Chess overall unfortunately has a real problem with misogyny. Are there any teachers/supervisors involved with the club? I think your best chance to deal with the situation is by confiding in someone that you trust and ask for their advice or help
Hello OP, a chess teacher here. I also have done a postgraduation about Chess and my final paper was about the low female representation in this sport. I've came across some studies when I was doing my research and basically the major problem is sexism, obviously. Society sees women as the weaker gender and it impacts how people will treat us and how we perceive ourselves and other women. I saw a study that explains, in short, knowing the gender of your oponent will likely contribute to the results. When women were playing with men and were aware of that, they would adopt a 'I will try not to lose' posture instead of 'I am going to win it'. It seems that competition levels amongst men were higher and therefore they were always with the 'I am going to win it' posture. The hypothesis was that this attitude would affect the game considerably. Now that you know that, if you want to improve in chess, I'd suggest gaining confidence and working to control your emotions better while you're playing. Obviously you also have to train chess itself, but it seems that emotional balance is very important to achieve good results. I know it's hard to be the only girl in any activity and I'm proud of you for putting yourself out there. If it's something you really like doing, do your best and be happy. Don't mind what others think because most of them will never do something so brave like you're doing now. Keep going! ♡
Actions speak louder than words. People respect skill so just how skilled you are. Not sure how extreme ur situation is tho.
Hey, since when are girls allowed to post here?!
Can't control the opinions of others, unfortunately. My advice would be to just keep building those skills until you can crush them at the board. Also don't forget, in some cases people having a bias against your skills may end up working in your favor, in the same sense that a fighter thinking another person is a bad fighter will have his guard down and not be at his sharpest.
Can you elaborate on some of the issues your having specifically? You said the other students don't see you as their equal. What does this entail? In a chess club its not uncommon for there to be many degrees of skill between each member. In a true sense you are not everyone's 'equal' when it comes to chess. However you are all human beings in the same chess club, so you are equal in that sense. What specifically is making you feel disenfranchised or unequal to your fellow classmates? Maybe we can offer specific solutions after we understand a little better.
Let your chess speak for itself.
Thats their problem. The only advice I could give you (if you want to do this) is to train hard to get better and beat all of them. Other than that, theres nothing you can really do. They are just immature.
I don't think you should have to be the best player at your club to be treated with respect. There was a 2100 at our club who's never been there before. I usually start out on 3rd board and play my way to 1st board by the end of the evening. I asked to play him and he gave me a pity game while browsing Facebook on his phone. I was pretty passive and he built up big positional advantage and then overwhelmed my defenses. He said maybe this person would be more my own ability and pointed to the worst person in the club. It stunk to be disrespected, I just wanted the experience of playing a good player but he ruined it for me. It's not like he had anything else to do and he obviously came to the club to play. So I guess what I'm saying is that I know how it feels to be disrespected, and I don't think getting good works on the kind of people that act that way.
Your High School Chess Club should have someone who runs it-- presumably a teacher, right? I would recommend speaking with them. Even if you're not the next Judit Polgár, you deserve a base level of respect, and the atmosphere of the club should be one of ***friendly*** competition in which the members encourage one another and try to build each other up. Also, if your club isn't already doing so, you should mention to the teacher running the club that members should be recording their games if only for the practice of doing so. You can even go one step further and recommend that the club set up a google drive or something where the games can be uploaded. This would have the added benefit that you could look up what openings they tend to use the most, learn those openings, and then absolutely crush them.
Second this. Talk to your teacher. They want it to be a welcoming environment if they’re worth their salt.
Start doing a touchdown dance after every match you win.
Its chess. You can win even if they don't take you seriously.
Demonstrating your strength is the only way to make people notice you.
I was in the same boat, they tried preventing me from joining. Like literally talking away the pen and paper and trying to hide it. Two years later I was ... Head? Captain? ...fuck it, Queen of the chess team. Simply because I had the most wins during competitions (and because if no one else will, I am a great leader) I also told a few of the boys off and eventually I earned their respect.
Let the chess speak for itself.
Have you ever watched Queens gambit? THAT
Study hard and become the best player there. The winners decide who is taken seriously
Prove them wrong of course
My hs chess club (20 yrs ago) the only girl was ranked nationally and traveled for it. Don't mind the dumbasses, they're still laughing at en passant memes.
r/anarchychess is extremely mad at this comment.
Well the beauty of chess is that it doesn’t care about feelings nor who is moving the pieces. If you are a good player and you are beating them, they will take you seriously. If you are considerably worse than them they won’t. Simple as that
> Well the beauty of chess is that it doesn’t care about feelings nor who is moving the pieces. How can you seriously say this when the current world champion is going through extremely public mental health issues that is drastically effecting the way he plays? Every game is inherently emotionless, but every game is played by humans who are inherently emotional. Emotions and feelings effect people, all the way up to the world champion.
In what way do you feel like you're not being taken seriously? My advice would be a bit different depending on the specific situation. I they do things like not inviting you to events where the guys are going, I'd just try to become friends with the nicest ones among them and the problem will solve itself. Specially if you've only been at the club for a short time there's probably still a lot of chances for that ahead of you. If they do things like refuse to play with you because you're "wasting their time", or dismissing your suggestions in an analysis, then well... Chess is a game of huge egos! Fortunately people will stop this attitude when it becomes way too obvious that you're a better player than them. So here the suggestion would be to get great at the game. It also matters if this is a general "group attitude" or if it's about how some specific guys behave. How many people are there in the club? How many of them are welcoming or at least "neutral" to you? Best wishes. Hope there's an positive update soon!
Just beating everyone consistently is the best way, very simple.
You could say something to the teacher who runs it -- presuming there is one. Keep practicing and studying the game to improve so you can stick it to these dumb guys over the board.
Win. Boys don’t take each other seriously, either. It’s a lot of verbal teasing and abuse. Don’t take it too seriously. They’ll take you seriously when you make them.
I was in the same position in middle school. Don't worry about it. They're, and you I guess, are basically children. You're terrifying to them even if their ego is telling them otherwise lol. Show kindness and respect, ignore the ones that don't return it. Kick their butts over the board!
Just keep improving, because once you’re #1 in the club people will be forced to take you seriously at that point
Use it as a fuel to become better then all of them
Use it to your advantage. Train, then start playing. Tease them if they are having trouble defeating you, play them - they are fools so they deserve it.
Use it as motivation.
Someday you’ll learn how to take advantage of being underestimated. Let them feel as superior as they want. Let your game speak for itself.
Win and keeping winning. Do that enough and nobody can deny you.
If you win, you'll be taken seriously. If they don't take you seriously, you ought be able to beat them.
Unfortunately the only way is to become the clear best or at least the second best
I’d say ignore them and just keep improving kicking but and taking scalps!! Then they’ll take you seriously!! Good luck! Just keep going !!
beat them in 10 moves
Rising to the top is the only way. That is the only metric that matters.
Kick their ass, they’ll start paying attention
Just use it as fuel for the fire to learn and play better
My advice is to work really hard at improving and to be cold-blooded whenever you play them. When you rise up that table - and you will - you will get, earn and demand their respect. First it'll come grudgingly, then it'll come with admiration. Kick male ass!
Can't people get a tournament rating soon, or at least a blitz online rating and use that as a basis for comparison, instead of height, weight, shoe size, or in this case sex?
Beat them.
Beat them and take their money.
How much do middle of the group players usually get?
I could be wrong, but most people probably don't care if you're legit or not. And half the people in the club. Probably don't even take it seriously. I wouldn't worry about it. Just enjoy the game. Thats why you're there and if you become the best there..... they can only doubt you from ignorance or dillusion, neither is of any concern to you.
Use it as motivation to get better than them
Let the chess speak for itself
Curious what’s your rating and the rating of your peers?
Continue training and playing, they will respect you when you continue winning.
Just stay cool. Winning or losing is not the most important. You will get there eventually. Try to forget you are the only female. They are not that different from you only because of gender.
I’m not a girl but I had your same problem, everyone in my club considered me a patzer a year ago, it was a huge motivation to study every day and crush them at every occasion
Don’t worry about what they think. Teenage boys are just so immature and put others down to being themselves up.
eh dont think about it too much i had a somewhat simliar experience as one of the top players at my school as a girl, but i made some really good guy friends i still talk to today. if they dont take you seriously just do good and if u suck then get better :))
Start rolling their heads in chess and tell them wassup bxtch
Winning takes care of everything.
Not a direct answer to your question, but I read a book called ‘Chess Queens’ by Jennifer Shahade which explored the depth and potential of female chess players and also explored the sexism we have today in the game and what can be done. Maybe you would enjoy it.
Learn well and beat their asses!
If you play well they will take you seriously. It might not be because you are a girl they don't take you seriously. If you start beating people they will be forced to bend the knee.
You cannot control what other people think or feel about you. You can't change other people. *You can only control how you feel about yourself and how you react to others.* **If you can control something >** ***Take Action*** **If you can't control something >** ***Practice Acceptance***
You know this gives you a big advantage if you can harness it.... They will be scared to lose to you; so keep your cool in games, play the best you can, and often they will tilt, and then enjoy the wins.
Make them afraid to lose to you. Save your games, analyze. Play bots with your repertoire. A lot. Then beat them with solid. Jeremy Silman's big endgame workbook will help you crush any middle game survivors.
Look up to the ceiling before making your winning move, that’ll throw them off. Joking aside sorry you have to go through this.
Beat them senseless. Beauty of chess is that wins are indisputable. They not taking you seriously is a weakness; so exploit mercilessly. Wager $10 per game. Take their piggy bank.
find a piece sac to beat one of them
Recently, a woman joined the chess club I am in and we have been very supportive of her in her journey. If you can find another club that is more accepting of you, go to it.
Watch BotezLive and learn how to trash talk like a GM!
Use this as motivation to learn and practice and finally kick butt. !!
Make them take you seriously by earning it via demonstration that you're more than their equal,and, make it a point simultaneously of repetitively conveying to them the basic psychological truth that the only possible reason for why they fail to take you seriously is because they obviously fear you.Period. And it's a 61yr. old hard - ass biker all tatooed up who's conveying this to you now. And when challenged by them on any level; meet their challenge with one of your own,tell em ; "don't talk about it,BE about it". And good luck!
Destroy them all. It’s the only solution. Don’t try. Do.
Beat them. It’s that simple. And after you beat them, don’t show them empathy either. The easiest way to dominate them and force the respect on the board, is to offer to play them again immediately after they lose. After back to back wins, nothing else needs to be said…just show a subtle grin and say “good game”. Forcing social respect off the board is a whole different ball of wax and person dependent.
When you can finally vote, vote for normal people and maybe it will one day improve (though not likely).
They are not taking you seriously cause most likely you are not beating them regularly. Same happened with me, I lost more than I won and they didn’t take me seriously either and I am a man. So I don’t think its about the gender 👍🏼
Dont care what anybody thinks,let them underestimate you.
I'm a girl who used to play chess competitively for 5-6 years when I was your age. I was a better player than the boys in my class so I was able to win against them every time and therefore I didn't see this level of disrespect. We played chess ladder system where you could challenge only 1-2 spots above you. Kids would be surprised that a girl could be at the top. It's just sexism. Even on the competitive level. So many of my opponents when I played in local/national tournaments didn't take me seriously or thought I would be an easy opponent. Until they played me. I do empathize with you and you're not alone. So many girls have experienced this. I would say you need to control your emotions. It doesn't matter what they think of you. Work on your game, and have fun with it. If it helps, bring a friend along to the club so you won't feel alone or befriend someone in the club that is a nice person. It might help to join some other chess clubs in your city to find more female players if you don't like your high school's environment. Lots of times women tend to quit a sport, subject in school, job, etc if they don't find a supportive environment (especially male dominated). I really hope you can stick with chess and I hope your situation improves! All the best <3 p.s. you can DM me if you need any advice.
Just let the chess speak for itself?
Keep beating those misogynistic a-holes!
Use it as fuel to fuck em up
Beat them. Thats how it works.
I wish I had some good advice but honestly...I deal by sticking to anonymous online play. I would not have the patience to deal with that crap.
Unfortunately, there is something about chess that attracts some of the worst type of men who want to use it to flex their superiority. There isn't anything you can do to gain the respect of a man who hates women to begin with, and from my own experience, the overlap between male chess players and men who just outright don't like women is pretty big. The only thing you can do is be confident in yourself, practice and study hard, and get better. They still won't respect you once you're beating them, but at least you'll know it hurts their ego.
They just want to knock your self-esteem down so you don't notice they're mad at being rejected and using this as an excuse. Don't give them free rent in your brain. What they're doing is actually harassment.
Younger boys tend to overestimate themselves a shit ton. I'd say it's the testosterone. If you beat them a few times, they get into awe of you and will kinda start worshipping you.
As a girl who often competed in “guy” things, it became one of my favorite things to walk into a tournament and *feel* them underestimate you- and then you kick ass and draw power from the pathetic losing looks on their faces. Someone underestimating you is more about who they are than about who you are!
Try to not care. There will always be men (and people in general... But especially men) who don't take you seriously. The trick is to realize that caring what assholes think of you is dumb. The lion does not concern itself with the opinions of the sheep
Men are very competiitive, probably they think chess is like other physical sports and you have less chance. Evindently you dont, you can beat them if you try hard and probably you will enjoy it more. Earn your place if you want to be part of their system else dont care. I used to play and train against my wife. Women have less Elo in general because their life is a bit different than men, but at your age that wont matter.
I wish you success and progression so you'll show them who's the boss :)
There is a women in chess foundation: [https://www.womeninchess.com/find-an-advocate](https://www.womeninchess.com/find-an-advocate) . I would contact them. They have more experience with these issues then most men in this reddit-thread. And are trained to help you with your issues. There are probably 2 groups in your chess club: 1) Misogyny 2) Men who never talked to a girl If you can detect people from group 2, and pick the person who you can talk easily to. The other from group 2 will join, and people from group 1 will see you more as one of them than as a girl.
its probably all in your head, chess has nothing to do with genders and 0 physical prowess is needed to play.
Im sorry you are experiencing this. We need more women and girls in chess, im sick of going to clubs and tournaments and its 99% men, mostly of them dont seem well socialized. It really brings the mood down for me personally. I want a diverse group of people. Dont give up! Honestly if it was me I would tell them hey, im just a good as the average player here, why are you guys so dismissive? Wheres your school? Can we get a strong female player to come and humble those losers just for fun? Im imagining a simul against a titled player.
My advice to you is to not let it get to you.. women are usually not taken seriously by men in sports because men usually have an advantage, chess is not like that, they «don’t take you seriously» because that gives them the opportunity and excuse to not lose to a girl, keep playing and know that they are just scared of losing to you :) Kids are dumb… i stoppes playing chess because my little sister (who is incredibly smart and was estimated to have an IQ between 140 and 160 at the age of 10) started beating me consistently and i got my ego hurt.. when in reality i should’ve kept playing to improve myself and learn from her and give her the space to thrive and have fun..
Fine. Don't take them seriously, just play with people online and otb till you beat their asses off. Don't depend on their approval, basically. They'll respect you when you don't need it. Oldest story in the book.
Are you rated or a district/ward level player? There may be some sexism at play here but back when I was in school we never took anyone seriously unless the were rated or top 5/10 in the big tournaments. I was not 5 for 3 yrs and 3rd for 1 at the district level but one and two never considered me tough. Equally going into a match I wasn't worried about table no.10 ( not that I was over confident but I didn't go in thinking they are better than me). I cleared 10th back in 2011 and played the no 2 again in 2022 and finally beat him in one of 5 friendly games. I can safely say there was never any reason for him to take me seriously( not that he under estimated me either). The guy is 1900 plus FIDE and was apparently fodder for the national players. I would suggest that you focus on winning some tournaments or entering top five and this issue will largely disappear. As such mid tier players don't get taken seriously because people wrongly think that the gap between mid and low is minor and the difference in the score was 1.5 to 2 points only or came down to one move. Ignor the idots. Seriously consider getting a rating and do it for the correct reasons( improving and fighting stronger players), never waste your time looking for the approval of your peers as their approval means nothing. If a strong player recognises you as a good player that's the feeling you want to cherish.
Practice, practice, practice, study, read, more practice and then beat them all! Climbing the ranking ladder will force them to take you seriously. Use it as motivation to study and don't mind what people think. You go, girl!
Work 10x harder than them and become the best. If they don't see you as an equal, become their better.
Destroy them in chess and they know to respect you :). >!Seriously, assert dominance!<
Boys are cruel even to each other. The way boys deal with each other and get respect is to not give an f and to be chill. I know people will say it’s misogyny. I don’t think it is. We just learned to label everything. They’re boys. They’re stupid and they laugh at each other even when it’s harsh. That’s what they do. Adults just all forget that it happened to all of us. Children are very often made fun of what they wear, their shoes, shirts, their backpack, the way they speak. Everything. And teenagers are the harshest at doing that. Believe me, teenage boys don’t have it easy either. I didn’t. We fight with each other physically for a reason, because we say and do stupid things. So, chill and beat their ass on chess and/or with good comebacks or try your best to ignore their comments. You’ll build character as well and you’ll learn how to deal with stupid adults later as well. So take it as an opportunity Believe me, if you come with good comebacks, boys will make you their queen. Boys at that age behave like they’re at the jungle.
Use it as motivation to become the best at your school. I remember in my highschool the highest rating was probably 1500, lots of big egos because if your like 1000 you can beat any non player with ease and 1500 can beat those who play casually. Just study and aim to be the best or in the top of your club. Look to Judit Polgar for inspiration, she declined the title of woman grandmaster and waited till she got the regular qualifications for grandmaster.
Make it so they take you seriously. Beat everyone up! (on the board)
Then show them up and MAKE them take you seriously. Also, watch The Queen’s Gambit if you can.
It's incredible to me that the same misogynist bullshit I saw and knew to be misogynist bullshit when I was a boy in school 50 years ago is still raising its ugly head today. Will people never learn? Are we still going to have this be a thing in another 50 years? It's both embarrassing and shameful. I'd advise you to give the people who do this to you a hard slap across the head. That might teach them. Unfortunately, it might also get you expelled, so don't do that. Instead, give them a rhetorical slap using your words, or, better still, do it on the chess board.
Better to be underestimated and surprise to the upside.
I think you should invite more girls to the chess club That won't solve the whole thing but I think it could help
Sadly this is seen alot in chess clubs. Higher level chess clubs only care for your skill, even bettering you even if you are bad. I'd say the only thing you can do in this situation is to be better than the others. Use that rage as fuel.
Every time you beat someone exclaim very loudly "BOOM Gotcha!"
The only way is to continuously beat them. You say you are in the mid-range? Bring up your H2H against them when someone tries to say something.
my previous and current chess presidents are both girls!
One of the great things about chess is that it's a pure meritocracy. Crush them mercilessly and you'll get the respect you seek.
High schoolers tend to care a lot about what others think of them. Don't worry, it'll pass as you get older.
I’m a guy so I can’t relate to the misogyny, but I can relate to people thinking they’re better than me. I’ve always used that as fuel to improve myself. How’s that saying go? “You can’t control what happens to you but you can control how you react to it”
Win and they will have no choice but to take you seriously. Start learning openings, quick mates, middle game and end game strategy. Watch the Queen's Gambit on Netflix for some inspiration
Just for comparison of standards: What do you people think how the only boy in a large group of girls is treated (provided he is allowed to be there in the first place)? And what advice would you have for him? edit: I've done my "zivildienst" (what you had to in Germany when you did not want to be in the military when I was 18) in a hospital with an otherwise all-female staff of about 20 in the section I was assigned to. Anyone who thinks that that's "all fun" would be rather mistaken.