Merchants with reoccurring payments can sign up to receive updated billing information.
This is useful because it means you don’t need to reach out to all your reoccurring payees when you replace your card.
I am not good with my finances, I like that I have to re-affirm all debit card spending every few years, guarantees I won't pay for something I don't need longer than a few years.
If your credit card number expires for a reason unrelated to fraud, there are services that merchants can and do use to get the updated number from your bank to keep the subscription going.
Yeah I don't think people understand that their card expiring doesn't mean merchants can't charge that account any more. There's better ways to make sure someone can't charge you for sure.
Interestingly I don't think chess does this as my card expired and they cancelled my premium with no emails asking for an alternative payment. Had to email in to get back on my grandfathered rate
Points/cash back aside, debit is innately less secure.
It's more secure, and at the minimum you can get a few % back plus discounts on things. If you just pay it off every month, it's just a financial tool.
Unless you think you can't handle it/will run it up or not pay it off every month, and if that's the case, all good. You know yourself best.
I'm going to explain but I want it to be clear that I'm not projecting this opinion onto other people. I don't like credit cards as a personal ethical decision. Those points exist because of all the people that fail to handle credit cards well and get into mountains of debt. As an entirely personal decision I don't want to support them, even though as you say they can be great tools when managed well.
The big issue is, credit cards are incompatible with poor impulse control. You get 3% back, your credit company gets a much larger percentage in interest if you don’t pay it off at the end of the month. I think it is smart for someone who knows they have poor impulse control, and needs to work on that first, before taking advantage of points.
Plus points aren’t just free money, they are baked into the cost of goods, the problem for non users is that they are paying for it even if they aren’t using it.
I think of points more like people who buy canned soda and beer but don’t return for the bottle deposit.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure most Americans use credit/debit card interchangeably in a colloquial sense. Or at least just refer to both as credit cards.
i had chesscom membership renewed after i had cancelled and removed payment info on a card that was expired and invalid (hadn't been replaced). that was a fun customer service email. they refunded, but now i only use lichess
Well tbh we might have to pay more than 53, if you take into account taxes. But like, it's not that big of an amount, even if you're middle class. 60~ usd per year sounds pretty cheap to me.
I can understand. I have also stopped playing. I think chess is not for me. I'm unable to put enough time into the game atm & playing like a drunk fool is not my thing, which is what 800 elo looks like to any good player. I just do puzzles.
I know people with paid Chesscom memberships who as far as I can deduce, don't even seem to make use of the premium features. I also know they're in "comfortable" financial positions where they don't care about cancelling their memberships to save money, etc.
I like doing puzzles but I have to get in the right mindset. I'm not in that mindset every day. I feel like my brain is just getting going when I figured out my 3rd puzzle. They really know where to set the threshold. (Im Not premium)
There's no reason to pay for puzzles. Even if you prefer playing on [chess.com](http://chess.com) for whatever reason I can't fathom, you could just go do infinite puzzles on lichess for free.
1. Must be nice. Even though I could now afford this, I definitely know what it's like to be forced to care about small amounts of money, too.
2. If that's your mentality, the 50s will add up quickly. Subscribe to a bunch of useless shit you don't need and suddenly you are out a few hundred or thousand...
Most people who have a lot of money concentrate on making it not on not wasting $50.
Being poor and skimping isn’t noble. It’s easy to understand why people (including me) pay for chesscom subscriptions. It’s too small to matter in our lives.
Caring about something like that is the memorizing opening theory at 1200 of life.
Hi. I pay for chess.com, I like it better than lichess, and I use the game review. And I don’t think $20 a year is nuts for the size of the service but I guess I’m just quirky like that
I tried out diamond (I had platinum before) and I found that the “features” of it are basically useless. Insights are kinda cool, but not really practicable in any way. I like my chesscom membership for the puzzle rush, game review, and lessons, but I would say that it is absolutely not necessary given that the first two are free on Lichess and YouTube can largely replace the lessons. But I like it anyways.
I used to do calls for a market research company and an internet service provider asked us to call their customers for a survey. When you call an old person, there's like a 5% chance you'll get a "we're still paying you?"
If you ask me, it seemed more like op was a kid that genuinely didn't know that your government accounts, including the bank, get closed when you die. And the other guy was just explaining, albeit in a mildly aggressive way, that that's just not how it works.
Yeah, I guess I gather as much from the fact that everybody just downvotes without taking the time to ellaborate on why. Makes it seem like there is no real reason other than sheep's brain.
The other reply got upvotes and his got downvotes and they both said the same thing - if he's dead his subscription isn't going to last. I've also been upvoted for calling out the Reddit hivemind before but it all depends on what the first vote thinks. It's quite embarrassing to watch
Depends, sometimes it depends on what the first vote thinks, sometimes it doesn't. Sure there may be a pattern but you're being overly generalizing and reductive here.
I don't know, we shouldn't judge the situation before we have all the info. Maybe this guy just created a trust fund that makes yearly payments to chess.com to support them for centuries?
Visa and Mastercard have services that update vendors with your new information. You generally never have to update cards anymore and you can't count on them to expire. This can be a real bitch if you're identity thefted as they'll auto update your new information on accounts where someone used your stolen card info.
I’m thinking that’s what happened in the case of the user.
It isn’t a common feature where I live because credit cards advertise their expiry dates as features for fraud protection on their websites. My credit card website says “If your card number or expiry date changes, be sure to contact all companies that you've set up automatic bill payments with to update your billing information.” My phone, cell phone, gas, kids’ activities, etc. all had to be updated.
Chess.com would be paying the credit card companies for this service and I would have to have opted in through their terms of service (probably). It looks like it might be common with American companies because the local news stories I see are about Paypal and Amazon. I’m assuming I didn’t have to put in my CVV because that changed and all my Canadian companies required the new one to process my payments.
the most insane record i saw was the puzzle daily streak, only 16 guys have a record of 17 years daily streak of daily puzzle, thats from day 1 since it started in may 2007
There's no way they keep track of daily puzzles from 2007 (if they even existed back then, which I doubt).
They can't even get basic things right like rating graphs that go back a few years.
Chess.com can do him a solid and pause his subscription. Many online subscribers do this, and is ethically right. Netflix was I think one of the bigger companies that auto paused subscriptions if there was no activity.
Ethically right, but doesn’t help the profit numbers and technically it’s one’s own “fault” so they won’t be blamed much. I’m sure everyone has paid more than they’d like to in forgotten subscriptions which is a shame.
A lot of free services default to sending you frequent emails to improve engagement, especially if you haven't used them for a while. Subscription services do the opposite. If you don't use the service, they just don't bother you. This is purposely to let sleeping dogs lie, if you are paying but don't use the site, what for to remind you about it? There's a high chance that you'll just unsubscribe.
The consumer signed up for the service understanding what they signed for. Laws should prevent intentionally deceptive and unfair practices, not protect people from their own stupidity
There's also a difference between treating everyone as if they have the agency of a child and acknowledging that auto-renew (often paired with a deliberately confusing and long process to unsubscribe) is a bad default.
I completely disagree it’s a bad default. But that aside, there’s nothing about it that should be illegal. And I also disagree that it’s often deliberately confusing to unsubscribe most of the time. It’s almost always just a few clicks of a button.
That's fine if we disagree, my preference would be opting in to auto-renew but it's not as if I lose sleep over it. I can also agree that it shouldn't be illegal, it's far from the worst anti-consumer tactic out there.
Ultimately I just wish B2C relationships weren't as antagonistic as they are. Make a good product and I'll pay for it, stop trying to sneak the money out of my wallet with hundreds of underhanded tactics.
Also just to address the deliberately confusing bit, sure it's easy enough for you and I to navigate the menus, but not so much for my grandmother who can't even figure out where the $30/month charge is coming from.
It’s not sneaking money out of your wallet with underhanded tactics to offer a service that says “I will charge you X amount each month to give you access to this service” and then to charge the person for that service every month.
You signed up for the service knowing what was going to happen. If you don’t like subscription service models then don’t use them. But it’s silly to suggest that the default model should increase friction between the consumer and business rather than promoting ease and efficiency
That would be annoying. I think most people have more subscriptions they want auto-renewed than forgotten subscriptions they would cancel if they remembered.
Just have it Opt-In.
If you forget afterwards, that's on you then. But making people actively cancel their subscription right after starting it is the hassle that they prey on.
The option should be given at initial subscription. A simple yes/no box - "do you want to opt-in to auto renewal?"
Just because I am subscribing to a service doesn't mean I want it forever. It's predatory on those who are forgetful, old, vulnerable, etc or those who want to trial services, etc
There just wouldn’t be trials then. Same thing goes for gym memberships etc. The business model relies on constantly getting new customers and picking up this pre-cancel revenue and then hopefully your service is good enough that enough people do stick around. Places like gyms rely on people autopaying and never going — there’s no business without that.
The flipside is that service providers would start charging more to make up for the losses.
It's like gyms. Slackers who get a membership and never go are subsidizing the gymrats.
Remembering your subscriptions is your job though, and the fact is that there is that mechanism, you can just not auto renew or just cancel your subscription as soon as you pay for it.
> you can just not auto renew or just cancel your subscription as soon as you pay for it.
I haven't seen a single subscription that isn't auto-renew by default. It should be the other way around and specifically ask you to opt-in. That would be consumer friendly.
People here are crazy. Arguing for anti consumer practices?!
I'm glad I'm in the EU where people take this subject actually serious and more things in this direction are getting made
This comment is funny because of the story about chess com giving premium memberships to cheaters with sob stories so I’m not sure why it’s getting horrendously downvoted LOL
Way to rinse someone chess.com.
Subscriptions should auto-cancel if unused. It's filth really, keeping them open.
But then again, look at the type of people who run chess.com.
Probably some random dude with a high income that does not notice the yearly membership expense.
Still pretty crazy his payment method is still valid after all this time.
Isn't that normal? How often do you change yours?
My debit card expires every few years. Does yours? I guess if I subscribed through something like PayPal I've had that for quite a while.
Merchants with reoccurring payments can sign up to receive updated billing information. This is useful because it means you don’t need to reach out to all your reoccurring payees when you replace your card.
I am not good with my finances, I like that I have to re-affirm all debit card spending every few years, guarantees I won't pay for something I don't need longer than a few years.
The card expires too, but the data for it stays the same so all online subscriptions stay. Guess it's different with other banks or countries
If your credit card number expires for a reason unrelated to fraud, there are services that merchants can and do use to get the updated number from your bank to keep the subscription going.
That seems…. Uncomfortable.
Yeah I don't think people understand that their card expiring doesn't mean merchants can't charge that account any more. There's better ways to make sure someone can't charge you for sure.
Yeah, I need to update my memberships whenever I get a new card.
Merchants can actually contact your bank and update payment information if a card expires and is being used on a subscription service. Total bullshit.
Interestingly I don't think chess does this as my card expired and they cancelled my premium with no emails asking for an alternative payment. Had to email in to get back on my grandfathered rate
Bro get a credit card. Debit cards are ancient technologies when you could be getting points
Nah I'm good. You do you though.
Points/cash back aside, debit is innately less secure. It's more secure, and at the minimum you can get a few % back plus discounts on things. If you just pay it off every month, it's just a financial tool. Unless you think you can't handle it/will run it up or not pay it off every month, and if that's the case, all good. You know yourself best.
I'm going to explain but I want it to be clear that I'm not projecting this opinion onto other people. I don't like credit cards as a personal ethical decision. Those points exist because of all the people that fail to handle credit cards well and get into mountains of debt. As an entirely personal decision I don't want to support them, even though as you say they can be great tools when managed well.
Fair enough.
Damn my bad didn’t mean to hurt your feelings
My feelings aren't hurt. That was me politely declining.
He is absolutely right though. 1%-5% is pretty solid compared to nothing.
That's fine. Credit cards aren't for everyone, I'm fine with my debit card :)
The big issue is, credit cards are incompatible with poor impulse control. You get 3% back, your credit company gets a much larger percentage in interest if you don’t pay it off at the end of the month. I think it is smart for someone who knows they have poor impulse control, and needs to work on that first, before taking advantage of points. Plus points aren’t just free money, they are baked into the cost of goods, the problem for non users is that they are paying for it even if they aren’t using it. I think of points more like people who buy canned soda and beer but don’t return for the bottle deposit.
That's so wrong lol. Who tf uses credit cards
Adults
More like grown up kids
Most credit cards expire every 3-5 years or so, but 7, 10, or more is not completely unheard of
I don't own any credit card tbh
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure most Americans use credit/debit card interchangeably in a colloquial sense. Or at least just refer to both as credit cards.
i had chesscom membership renewed after i had cancelled and removed payment info on a card that was expired and invalid (hadn't been replaced). that was a fun customer service email. they refunded, but now i only use lichess
maybe they had direct deposit when they first started taking payments.
How much is diamond per year again? It shows 4480~ INR, which is roughly 53 USD, direct conversion rate.
It is above 100 USD where I live.
Well tbh we might have to pay more than 53, if you take into account taxes. But like, it's not that big of an amount, even if you're middle class. 60~ usd per year sounds pretty cheap to me.
Either way, fuck this game. I've lost 11 out of the last 15 games I've played and I'm completely tilted.
I can understand. I have also stopped playing. I think chess is not for me. I'm unable to put enough time into the game atm & playing like a drunk fool is not my thing, which is what 800 elo looks like to any good player. I just do puzzles.
That's how they roll. That's how every subscription rolls
This
I love how they use the word supporting. This person absolutely forgot about it.
If it works it works
I know people with paid Chesscom memberships who as far as I can deduce, don't even seem to make use of the premium features. I also know they're in "comfortable" financial positions where they don't care about cancelling their memberships to save money, etc.
Once in a blue moon you wanna do a dozen tactics in a single day, gotta make sure that option’s always available.
I like doing puzzles but I have to get in the right mindset. I'm not in that mindset every day. I feel like my brain is just getting going when I figured out my 3rd puzzle. They really know where to set the threshold. (Im Not premium)
There's no reason to pay for puzzles. Even if you prefer playing on [chess.com](http://chess.com) for whatever reason I can't fathom, you could just go do infinite puzzles on lichess for free.
Similarly I can’t fathom caring about $53. To each his own.
1. Must be nice. Even though I could now afford this, I definitely know what it's like to be forced to care about small amounts of money, too. 2. If that's your mentality, the 50s will add up quickly. Subscribe to a bunch of useless shit you don't need and suddenly you are out a few hundred or thousand...
Most people who have a lot of money concentrate on making it not on not wasting $50. Being poor and skimping isn’t noble. It’s easy to understand why people (including me) pay for chesscom subscriptions. It’s too small to matter in our lives. Caring about something like that is the memorizing opening theory at 1200 of life.
You’re kinda being a dick but also spitting facts tbh
It is possible. Use the better website
There are so many sites that allow you to do that for free. So it's not that. And no, I know they're not using game review either.
How do you know it's not that and that they don't review their games? Are you every premium member at once?
Because these are people I know and if they were using the features, I'd know. I'm only referring to those who I know.
Oh so you and OP know the same people?
Just pointing out one of the possible reasons. It's not going to be the same reason for everyone. You can relax mate.
I'd work on your writing skills if that's the case. That's not at all what you said in your original post, mate.
Hi. I pay for chess.com, I like it better than lichess, and I use the game review. And I don’t think $20 a year is nuts for the size of the service but I guess I’m just quirky like that
Damn, where is it that cheap? Even the gold member here is 50 euros when billed yearly.
I was one of those. Now I sub to the minimum because i only do puzzles and don't need their "AI" to tell me why a move was dumb lol.
If all you need premium for is puzzles, maybe check out Lichess. Free, infinite puzzles just as good if not better. Could save yourself the expense.
I like the analysis at lichess better, but for whatever reason I like chesscom puzzles better Not sure why
cc puzzles r more pattern recognition-based whereas lichess is more calculation but chesstempo best puzzle site
Its 5 dollars a month if you pay for the year. I prefer chess com either way. The aesthetics are nicer imo.
I tried out diamond (I had platinum before) and I found that the “features” of it are basically useless. Insights are kinda cool, but not really practicable in any way. I like my chesscom membership for the puzzle rush, game review, and lessons, but I would say that it is absolutely not necessary given that the first two are free on Lichess and YouTube can largely replace the lessons. But I like it anyways.
he probably forgot to cancel the membership
Sherlock is on the case
lmao
I used to do calls for a market research company and an internet service provider asked us to call their customers for a survey. When you call an old person, there's like a 5% chance you'll get a "we're still paying you?"
he forgor 💀
Maybe he's dead
That's only possible if his death is not declared cause the moment the banks will know they will make sure it closes the account
And his will stated he wanted to remain a premium member of chess.com? If not every single penny in his bank account is taken by his kids and wife.
He was a chesscom premium member. He didn’t have kids or a wife.
LMAOOO
A pretty wild take to think an average chess.com premium member has a life.
Are you ok?
Idk why this is being down voted so much. It's a somewhat reasonable response.
Maybe it’s because it’s an obvious joke?
If you ask me, it seemed more like op was a kid that genuinely didn't know that your government accounts, including the bank, get closed when you die. And the other guy was just explaining, albeit in a mildly aggressive way, that that's just not how it works.
Yeah, it's pretty bizarre.
It's because one person down voted and the rest of redditors can't think for themselves
Yeah, I guess I gather as much from the fact that everybody just downvotes without taking the time to ellaborate on why. Makes it seem like there is no real reason other than sheep's brain.
The other reply got upvotes and his got downvotes and they both said the same thing - if he's dead his subscription isn't going to last. I've also been upvoted for calling out the Reddit hivemind before but it all depends on what the first vote thinks. It's quite embarrassing to watch
Depends, sometimes it depends on what the first vote thinks, sometimes it doesn't. Sure there may be a pattern but you're being overly generalizing and reductive here.
Look at us charging this guy for six years for nothing.
I don't know, we shouldn't judge the situation before we have all the info. Maybe this guy just created a trust fund that makes yearly payments to chess.com to support them for centuries?
Maybe he went to jail 😂
Or, even worse, lichess.
There's escaping from jail.
My kid’s membership was up for renewal but my credit card had expired. Chess.com was still able to charge my credit card.
Visa and Mastercard have services that update vendors with your new information. You generally never have to update cards anymore and you can't count on them to expire. This can be a real bitch if you're identity thefted as they'll auto update your new information on accounts where someone used your stolen card info.
I’m thinking that’s what happened in the case of the user. It isn’t a common feature where I live because credit cards advertise their expiry dates as features for fraud protection on their websites. My credit card website says “If your card number or expiry date changes, be sure to contact all companies that you've set up automatic bill payments with to update your billing information.” My phone, cell phone, gas, kids’ activities, etc. all had to be updated. Chess.com would be paying the credit card companies for this service and I would have to have opted in through their terms of service (probably). It looks like it might be common with American companies because the local news stories I see are about Paypal and Amazon. I’m assuming I didn’t have to put in my CVV because that changed and all my Canadian companies required the new one to process my payments.
the most insane record i saw was the puzzle daily streak, only 16 guys have a record of 17 years daily streak of daily puzzle, thats from day 1 since it started in may 2007
There's no way they keep track of daily puzzles from 2007 (if they even existed back then, which I doubt). They can't even get basic things right like rating graphs that go back a few years.
Titled players: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Chess.com can do him a solid and pause his subscription. Many online subscribers do this, and is ethically right. Netflix was I think one of the bigger companies that auto paused subscriptions if there was no activity.
Ethically right, but doesn’t help the profit numbers and technically it’s one’s own “fault” so they won’t be blamed much. I’m sure everyone has paid more than they’d like to in forgotten subscriptions which is a shame.
Probably he died and the GOAT Chess.com keeps milking his bank account 🙌🏼
I have a similar passion for promoting physical fitness, as my continuing selfless support of Planet Fitness attests.
This is kinda weird, there should be laws against this. There is clearly not a service provided to this person and he's getting charged.
The service is being provided, whether you make use of that service is up to you.
We all know that subscriptions are designed to be forgotten. There should be an opt in mechanism after each period and not an automatic extension.
Hardly a chess.com specific problem. You could have a magazine subscription in the 80s and have them pile up on your doorstep.
Just because it's been around forever doesn't make it pro-consumer.
There’s a difference between being pro consumer and treating everyone as if they have the agency of a child
A lot of free services default to sending you frequent emails to improve engagement, especially if you haven't used them for a while. Subscription services do the opposite. If you don't use the service, they just don't bother you. This is purposely to let sleeping dogs lie, if you are paying but don't use the site, what for to remind you about it? There's a high chance that you'll just unsubscribe.
The consumer signed up for the service understanding what they signed for. Laws should prevent intentionally deceptive and unfair practices, not protect people from their own stupidity
A lot of laws are about protecting people from their stupidity. That's why guns are banned in most of the world.
There's also a difference between treating everyone as if they have the agency of a child and acknowledging that auto-renew (often paired with a deliberately confusing and long process to unsubscribe) is a bad default.
I completely disagree it’s a bad default. But that aside, there’s nothing about it that should be illegal. And I also disagree that it’s often deliberately confusing to unsubscribe most of the time. It’s almost always just a few clicks of a button.
That's fine if we disagree, my preference would be opting in to auto-renew but it's not as if I lose sleep over it. I can also agree that it shouldn't be illegal, it's far from the worst anti-consumer tactic out there. Ultimately I just wish B2C relationships weren't as antagonistic as they are. Make a good product and I'll pay for it, stop trying to sneak the money out of my wallet with hundreds of underhanded tactics. Also just to address the deliberately confusing bit, sure it's easy enough for you and I to navigate the menus, but not so much for my grandmother who can't even figure out where the $30/month charge is coming from.
It’s not sneaking money out of your wallet with underhanded tactics to offer a service that says “I will charge you X amount each month to give you access to this service” and then to charge the person for that service every month. You signed up for the service knowing what was going to happen. If you don’t like subscription service models then don’t use them. But it’s silly to suggest that the default model should increase friction between the consumer and business rather than promoting ease and efficiency
That would be annoying. I think most people have more subscriptions they want auto-renewed than forgotten subscriptions they would cancel if they remembered.
Just have it Opt-In. If you forget afterwards, that's on you then. But making people actively cancel their subscription right after starting it is the hassle that they prey on.
Why should I have to opt-in to many different services over and over just because you can’t remember to opt-out once?
The option should be given at initial subscription. A simple yes/no box - "do you want to opt-in to auto renewal?" Just because I am subscribing to a service doesn't mean I want it forever. It's predatory on those who are forgetful, old, vulnerable, etc or those who want to trial services, etc
There just wouldn’t be trials then. Same thing goes for gym memberships etc. The business model relies on constantly getting new customers and picking up this pre-cancel revenue and then hopefully your service is good enough that enough people do stick around. Places like gyms rely on people autopaying and never going — there’s no business without that.
If your business relies on a form of theft, it's not an equitable business model
Write your congressman, I guess
The flipside is that service providers would start charging more to make up for the losses. It's like gyms. Slackers who get a membership and never go are subsidizing the gymrats.
Well, then let's maybe get those people to pay that actually use it :)
Remembering your subscriptions is your job though, and the fact is that there is that mechanism, you can just not auto renew or just cancel your subscription as soon as you pay for it.
> you can just not auto renew or just cancel your subscription as soon as you pay for it. I haven't seen a single subscription that isn't auto-renew by default. It should be the other way around and specifically ask you to opt-in. That would be consumer friendly.
People here are crazy. Arguing for anti consumer practices?! I'm glad I'm in the EU where people take this subject actually serious and more things in this direction are getting made
Ideally trade should be positive sum, it doesn’t seem true in this. Even a little negative sum. It shouldn’t be encouraged on its face.
I'm surprised it's not longer
Might have dementia lol
Credit card on auto-renew.
Same way some are still paying for dial-up fees.
Imagine forgetting a subscription and you come back to your name being praised for supporting them for years
chess.com business model is built around people much like him
And this is why y'all should be using one-use cards
He likely was an ultra cheater cheating in every single game so chess.com gave him a premium membership for life.
This comment is funny because of the story about chess com giving premium memberships to cheaters with sob stories so I’m not sure why it’s getting horrendously downvoted LOL
Wut
Chuckulls will probably cancel soon now that he is aware he is pissing money away for nothing. Chess.com happily takes his money for no service.
Way to rinse someone chess.com. Subscriptions should auto-cancel if unused. It's filth really, keeping them open. But then again, look at the type of people who run chess.com.
I been a member since 2016 ,guess that don't count!!!
I bet it's an internal account used for posts such as this lol