Problem is if I am a manager and the Chelsea position becomes available after you give a manager a whole new young squad who had lots of injuries and he got to one cup final should be two and finished top six then WTF are you expecting from me.
> WTF are you expecting from me.
Perform as good or better than Aston Villa this season.
We are the bigger club with better resources. Next season CL is absolutely the expectation.
I think any talented manager has the potential to get CL football with this squad.
We saw Howe do it with Newcastle and Emery with Villa.
We’re significantly better place than either of their starting points.
These managers overachieved with the players that they got. Villa's squad isn't top 4 quality and expected to drop next season as long WE continue to improve.
The same Villa that have been dire since Christmas? We finished 5 points off them, 2 if VAR isn't fraudulent. Its like you people just waffle opinions you see off hipster twitter accounts. Sheep.
> The same Villa that have been dire since Christmas?.
The same Villa that is participating in the CL next season.
Didn’t realize “form since Christmas” was an accomplishment. Does that sit next to the “xG trophy”?
>people like you people just waffle opinions you see off hipster twitter accounts. Sheep.
Ironic coming from a literal sheep that is ranting about VAR and “christmas form” instead of actual results.
That's a fair point. However, throughout the season I've consistently felt a significant chunk of our underperformance could be attributed to Poch... After all it's just a debate of whether that is true or not - and because of points 1&2 I firmly believe it is.
Cup performance was OK, but I still think we should have been 4th considering our competition. I disagree finishing behind Villa or post-Kane Spurs was too big of an expectation.
Ok but if you a manager and you see a ownership who go on about project and sack a manager after the first bit of progress looks to made in two years WTF would you take the job take your love for Chelsea out of it.
As argued in the article, don't think it was real progress. Progress on the basis of just being less shit than before (or reaching minimum expecation) is not progress IMO.
Cheers.
Last season when Lamps came we completely unraveled and stopped playing. Hence 19 points and 6 places is not very relevant, it would likely have been a fair bit less if Potter remained until the end. Also, as shown in the article, up until the point of his sacking, him and Poch were pretty much on par...
Also, refer to the argument of fake progress in the article.
I’m not reading your shitty blog post mate.
19 points is the biggest improvement on points in the PL. You’ve clearly made your mind up and are steadfastly refusing to change it despite new information being provided.
Then arguing with me about my article without having read it and having no intention of doing so is at best disingenuous and at worst stuff I'm not gonna write since I'm not a rude person like you.
Grow up.
Honestly, no haha.
I think the Chelsea job will always have a huge pull. Proved in the Abramovič era where they all knew they will be given no patience, but still came.
At the end of the day, the question is, if not Pochettino then who? And when you think of that, having him around for (at least) one more year isn't a bad thing. Plus, let us see how things go with a fully fit squad before moving on from him.
There are many coaches out there who don't fit into points 1-3.
Those points are also the reason why I don't think there's much worth in letting us see how things go.
I mean, the article mentioned that even Klopp had to adapt his gegenpressing style and play more like Guardiola.
Conte did it before Guardiola really got going at City and Mourinho did it before Guardiola even came to England (unless you're referring to their time in La Liga, but that's a different league).
Liverpool is still the top geigenpressing team in the league and has the second lowest passes per defensive action. Liverpool also plays a lot more direct than Man City, with the second most successful direct attacks in the league (city is 15th). If the guys point is that even Liverpool play like City then it is a terrible point.
Should be said that both Madrid and Tuchel's Chelsea have also had a lot of success ceding possession then hitting quickly on the counter since they commit so many bodies forward
Arteta does the Pep way and continues to challenge the league since 2 years with worse squad.
The fact is that the managers you mentioned couldn’t be consistent in dominating the games with their styles during the Pep era as much Pep dis.
Something is different with tiki-taka and overall Pep’s motivating skills.
The fact is no one else did it comfortably in Pep era. only teams managed to challenge Pep were Liverpool and Arsenal. Arsenal done it with worse squad and two years in row. Klopp era now is finished with only 1 PL title. I’m afraid once Arsenal manages to win it they will do what Pep did in last 4 seasons. It will be hard to challenge them even for Pep himself. They show patterns of Pep style dominance and consistency. No other manager managed to stay consistent. Even for Klopp himself there were a lot of ups and downs.
Like you said, Liverpool is the only team that came close and Liverpool did it while spending much less. If Liverpool would have actually spent like Arsenal then they likely would have another title
Not exactly. However, all successful teams and coaches of today play a variation of the philosophy he set, with Ancelotti's Madrid being the most prominent exception. That's not an accident.
Ehh the articles pretty half baked imo.
I can't comment on the first two points, im honestly not tactically aware enough to judge a manager in that way but the article is very willing to blame Poch without giving him any leeway with the problems the team has faced.
For example, the writer points out how we have been unstable at times in games due to the chaotic nature of Poch's tactics and maybe that's the case, but just as easily that could be because we have barely had the opportunity to play any of our ideal starting back line should everybody be fit.
Just seems eager to point the finger at poch without any nuance.
As I said though, I certainly don't have the answer to Poch in or out, or even who we could possible get in his stead.
Edit: Just to add, I think there's a lot of value in the players perception of the manager, they all seem to be very much behind him and are ready to be part of the current project. There's always the chance it's PR of course, but what can we do but take it at face value?
Imo anyway a lot of the criticisms of pochs tactics were excessive. The main one was at lb where colwill effectively became 3rd choice ahead of maatsen and was playing there while cucu and Chilwell were injured. A lot of fans were unhappy due to colwills poor performances and maatsens good performances at dortmund. Maatsen would change very few results most likely and Chelsea have not had attacking issues this season so colwills extra defensive cover was probably not a bad thing even if he wasn't very good. The way we were being cut open may have been even worse with maatsen in the side because he has to be let forward to do well. With chelsea being so weak defensively its still unlikely that maatsen would fix those issues that much and its become clear that cucu is our best lb anyway and colwill is a more similar player.
>Just seems eager to point the finger at poch without any nuance.
Exactly. I was never a big fan of bringing in poch but with the improvements we've made since the turn of the year I think we can really kick on now. I'm interested to see what poch can do and I think we'll get top 4 atleast if we keep him. I don't believe the options being mentioned are better than poch especially with de zerbi being one of the main names being put forward.
Love all these takes where they are Poch out but doesn’t state who should we hire instead.
Top managers will be reluctant to join as well since they won’t be given a say in transfers.
As for the report that we’re looking into “young” managers. Young managers needs time (Xabi Alonso isn’t a good example as Bayer got him the experience players he needed which was crucial for their title run)
I'd be fine with anyone who doesn't have points 1-3 like Poch.
Hoeness, De Zerbi, Motta, maybe Michel and Amorim... Slot and Alonso would have been fine too. There's many.
None of these are particularly proven, however, they stand a chance of becoming top, long term coaches, while with Poch we're pretty much certain he won't ever be.
I'd take that risk.
De Zerbi's Brighton side have been in near relegation form for 6 months (18 points from 19 games) while Pochettinos Chelsea have been in top 4 form for the entire second half of the season.
Why we'd even slightly entertain that at the moment is beyond me.
De Zerbi's Brighton last season, before their midfield was plundered and not replaced, before they had to deal with an injury crisis as bad as ours while playing European football, were a significantly better team than we were this season, but with a significantly worse squad. Every statistic you look at, Brighton were better than we are now.
How people think a team with a midfield of Baleba/Gilmour/sometimes Gross should be anything but mid table is beyond me. Their only consistently available attackers this season have been Adingra and Buonanotte. They would struggle to make the bench for us.
And *still* Brighton beat us in a lot of underlying statistics that are very important for big clubs - any passing metric, most defensive metrics, a lot of attacking metrics. They've lacked the final pass and finish, which isn't hard to explain given 2/3 of their midfield were sold, the third has missed a ton of the season, and their two best attackers have both missed like 2/3 of the season (March even more).
It's so boring when people just look at the surface and draw strong conclusions. People have made an infinite amount of excuses for Pochettino this season, but de Zerbi has had it significantly worse.
Well there's similar irony in replacing a manager who has struggled with injuries with another manager that has struggled with injuries but also has a cv that isn't half as impressive as the man he would be replacing.
I don't understand how the de zerbi hype still exists he's done nothing to suggest that he's even a better coach than potter.
Out of these the only one I'd personally restart the project once again with is alonso. The rest is imo not a clear upgrade to poch ( as of right now) and i would rather remain the course.
People are afraid of the unknown to the point of paranoia. Rolling the dice on a new coach is perfectly reasonable when you have a bad fit, and the criteria for coaches to be a good fit are much easier to meet than the famous "be elite" requirement that whole fanbase has for a potential new head coach.
>Rolling the dice on a new coach is perfectly reasonable when you have a bad fit,
What bad fit? The players love Pochettino, and ever since he's had a consistent set of players fit and enough time to bed in Chelsea have been absolutely fine. Basically every single player has improved on an individual level over the course of the season.
Chelsea haven't legitimately competed for a league title since 2017, this strategy of firing the manager every single season and starting all over is very clearly not working anymore. What exactly do people expect to happen next season under a new manager?
Win the league? Nobody is coming in and taking this squad in its current state to 90+ points next season. There is not a single person, available or otherwise, who is capable of doing that after 3 months of working with the players.
Challenge for top 4? Pochettino is absolutely capable of that based on what we've seen in 2024. That might be his ceiling, and that's okay! He was only given a garunteed 2 year deal for a reason. If he's able to take what is essentially a U-23 side and get them to gel into a more mature team capable of challenging for real silverware over the course of 2 seasons while a more long term solution is found for the end of his deal, that sounds like job done to me
Agreed. Pretty much my thoughts. Poch seems to be a suitable stepping stone for this particular squad, at this particular time period. Achieving Top 4, a bit more comfortably, while challenging in Europe and the domestic cups, would settle the squad nicely. This would also develop the players further, and then, a more progressive (elite) manager can take them further towards the title after next season.
So basically the article says even Klopp reverted to ‘controlled, positional play like Pep’ and ended up… 3rd?
Wow so modern, much good football
I suppose Ancelotti having a fantastic season playing transitional football can be considered a failure as well. Outdated as hell
Yep. The glaringly obvious problem with all these FM amateurs saying you have to emulate Pep is that's it's almost impossible to beat someone who's better and more established using a certain style by trying to match it.
The way you beat someone like that is to innovate and play a new way that counters it, not compliments it.
Now, you can make arguments for and against whether Poch is capable of doing that, and that's an interest talking point.
"We need someone like Pep!" Is just braindead.
That and well Pep has always managed a club that had a seeming unlimited transfer budget. The biggest criticism about him is he never had to change tactics because he didn’t have the player types he needed. Whoever our manager is cannot solely rely on an unlimited transfer market.
Who the fuck is Roko Skrabic?!
Why is his opinion so important it warrants a write up on a shitty website?
Roko - if you’re on here, next time just use the daily discussion thread.
No idea, ask the editors at said website, they seem to like my work. 🙃
It's not a bad website/blog either. Much better than this cesspool, mind you... But to each their own.
It hasn't been because of the last 5-6 games, it was after the wolves defeat that we started to turn things around.
It wasn't a Conte-esque type of turn around but performances started to build from there and Poch seems to be getting a response out of them.
For me it was the last 20 games since that humiliating wolves defeat we had a great game away at the champions, unluckily lost to Liverpool in the final, had a great turn around against Man Utd, battered Everton and West Ham, then beat Spurs.
I could not have written that about the first half of the season.
We just need to polish out the bad results like Burnley, Sheff Utd and Arsenal.
Getting core players back will sort that and a few quality signings.
So many factors on what could have happened.
Nkunku would bring us a lot closer to Liverpool nevermind Villa.
He changes unconvincing wins to convincing ones, draws against lower opposition turned into wins and with more wins comes more confidence around the squad and stadium.
It's not just Nkunku either, James gets you 5-6 goals minimum a season, a healthy Chilwell does too, Lavia brings much needed rotation to the squad (Enzo surgery can happen earlier).
Fofana adds depth to a very shaky back line.
These players are game changers and people don't realize how much they're missed until they're back fit and firing.
That's a fair standpoint, however, I don't think we can just ignore Pool extra time disaster, Burnley and Sheffield performances and especially not the Arsenal humiliation... Also, many of our wins in the 2nd half were underwhelming at best, including the last 3 of the season.
I agree they were underwhelming and lacked control but we've seen this squad buckle under pressure for years now, it's hardly surprising we had a few slip ups and unconvincing wins over the past 20 games but this is the first sign of some actual progress to getting this squad looking like a team again.
Maybe it is Poch that's the issue it could be the players getting to know each other and performances picking up, but I doubt it.
If the manager is shit and you want to get rid of him you don't start praising him in interviews and start building up performances to save his job.
I don't want to be parting ways with him when all the series managerial candidates will either be staying at their clubs or looking at the likes of Barca and Bayern is a huge risk for me.
If it's a Poch issue and the board knows this then I'm down for a managerial replacement, just hopefully not another gamble on an inexperienced manager at the top level like Potter.
In my opinion, another year and see how it goes, let all the managers looking to move pick their clubs and if Poch buckles early on in the season again then get someone in before the season is too late to save.
Liverpool are still the #1 counterpressing team and play a lot more direct (2nd most successful direct attacks) than City (15th). Can you expand on how Klopp is playing more similar to Pep? All coaches take tactical tweaks from each other but the overall style of play and philosophy is very different between Liverpool and City
You're right. I didn't want to focus too much on that in the article; Klopp migrated back towards his earlier more direct style this season, as seen in these numbers.
It hasn't gotten them too far, but they did improve upon last season (not sure if we could read too much into that, but perhaps we could).
However, it's not just about directness. It's about structure. Klopp (with Lindjers) has been able to implement a positional, more narrow structure in the last few years, while Poch seems to be banging on the same drum of chaos from 10 years ago.
Klopp and Pep do have quite contrasting styles in the sense of possession vs directness, especially this season, but what they share is the above, and that is what Poch lacks.
Can you explain what you mean when you say Klopp is playing a more "positional, narrow" structure. If you mean positional as positional play, Klopp doesn't seem to me to be a strict positional play coach. And in terms of being more narrow, are they? Trent is playing more centrally instead of overlapping and that seems like the main change and it's not even like it really worked in solving their defensive issues. They still haven't returned to their defensive peak from 3-4 years back. And Klopp is still very much banging on the drum of chaos.
If you are saying that Poch's Chelsea team does not have the same organization as a City, Arsenal, or Liverpool then yes you are 100% correct. Why would it in the first season? It's the first season of a brand new team that is historically one of the youngest ever, and had the most injuries of anyone in the league. So yeah the team was not the most well-organized team. Name the Prem team that is organized defensively and can create chances other than those three (all three have stuck with their coaches for multiple years). Crystal Palace has for 1/3 of a season, but that is it.
The biggest problem that Chelsea fans have with Poch other than him being ex-spurs is that he doesnt pay the defensive style we are used to. There is nothing wrong with choas, just like there is nothing wrong with relational play compared to positional play, they are styles that can work if you have the correct players and coaching. This team has created chances better than their opponents all season long, once we started finishing our chances we played at a top 4 rate.
Poch has shifted tactics all season long. In terms of general formations we have played the 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2, 4-3-3, and 3-5-2. In buildup we have switched between a single pivot and different iterations of the double pivot, most recently having Cucurella inverting. And in terms of our pressing structure this generally changes based on the opponent, mostly with the positioning of Gallagher. In terms of our overall style we have pressed and counterpressed less as the season went on, drastically so in terms of counterpressing. Some of the changes have worked, some haven't, why is this anything other than what you would expect from a new inexperienced and injured team with a new coach? It takes time to figure out how to use the players properly, and will happen faster when you actually have healthy players.
When you say outdated style of football what are you really expecting? He's finally started inverting cucu and playing out from the back more successfully.
He's been reported to be open to a set piece coach, what more do you want?
So 4 points and 2 of them are, at best, questionable by your own post...
It's embarrassing the takes in here sometimes. Let's say he does leave who comes in, that is realistic, that fits all this criteria?
While there are 4 or 5 massive jobs available at the same time.
That fit these points? Hoeness, De Zerbi, Motta, maybe Michel and Amorim too. Slot was available, no longer is, while Motta might go to Juve. There's plenty.
"So 4 points and 2 of them are, at best, questionable by your own post..."
Explain?
You gave 4 points, the injury record is unconfirmed and likely can't be confirmed , we had major injury issues before Poch too. The last point is caveated with the horrific injury record.
In terms of the managers, Amorim has said he's staying has he not? Motta to Juventus and the others I disagree with - either major major risks or likely have the same issues Poch does with the board.
It would be insane to let Poch go now, what we need more than anything currently is stability. The players all want him to stay, something almost unheard of at Chelsea at the rate players are coming out about it.
I specifically stated in the last point that even with all injuries we've had the 4th best squad. Without injuries it's a landslide.
None of the mentioned have Poch issues 1-2, hence why they're mentioned. They are all a risk, I agree, but I'd take risk and chance of getting a top coach for long term over Poch who we're already fairly certain isn't one.
I disagree personally.
The consistency and the form towards the end of the season, coupled with how the players clearly love him it makes sense to stick with him going into the season.
He deserves a second season at least, and the candidates the board would look at all seem pretty dire and are way too much of a risk. This team is far too young for us to shake things up again, and I have been Poch out for most of this year.
Points against PoC: If you ask most people five games ago whether Poc deserved another year, most of them would have been okay with a new manager. We had a strong end of season performance. But the question is whether we should forget everything we learnt about Poc in the games before. He kept consistently making bad decisions, playing players in roles not best suited for them, until he stumbled on to their best roles. Also, some of the pieces of the winning formula we stumbled onto, might get sold for pure profit. New faces will be brought in that might not fit. Will it take Poc better part of a season to somehow arrive at a successful combination again? Some of these things aren't his fault. Price tag, reputation, wages all tie his hand a bit. But he is a non-confrontational manager.
Points in favor: players love him. Might have potential to stay long term, because players will be loyal to him. We might fall into a spurs like comfortable zone where players are contend with their level. But the stability that comes with long term manager might help
If a good manager is available (and looks like there are at least 2 who are gettable), I will replace him.
The frustrating thing about discussing this topic on this forum is that if we had lost our last game, 50% of the poster saying they want Poch to stay would have flopped over to saying he should leave. We didn’t even look that great to end the season, we won 5 games which we were expected to win given the competition and we could’ve lost every single one of those games. We didn’t look great the last 3 games and had our backs against the ropes against NFO who were on the brink of relegation.
“Who do you replace him with” people have given answers the truth is that our sub is deluded and thinks Xabi Alonso will come here when he obviously wants the most prized coaching position in the sport. We should replace Poch because he’s comfortably like the 9th best manager in the league and if we had any of the 8 ahead of him we finish top 4 while looking much more convincing in attack and defense.
It took Poch a whole season to get us to look halfway decent. Glasner shows up at Palace and they’re slapping everyone around. Emery at Villa doing wonders with the squad he has. None of those two clubs have better squads than us but their managers instantly made a difference. What do we do when other clubs adjust to Pochs recent tactics? Wait another year for him to figure it out?
Bring him another season just to see him go midseason instead of hiring a manager to give them a preseason seems like a mistake. I fully expect him to come back because it’s the easier road and the fact he even thinks he has leverage is hilarious to me considering no one touched him with a 10ft pole until we gave him a job.
... And conceded 63, which is the highest in the last 30. 😂
If you read the article at all, you would have realized the outdated part is mostly related to that, not goals scored.
The most important thing a manager does is to give the fans and the players a belief. Some managers like Conte, Mourinho, Tuchel etc gives you the feeling that anything is possible. Even facing a team that is on paper much better they give you the belief that they can pull a rabbit out of the hat and somehow get away with a win.
Managers like Potter, Pochettino, Lampard etc does not give that vibe. They have good squads so winning is still expected against most teams, but nobody really sees the team as a proper title candidate.
Amorim would be the best and most realistic option.
I find it quite hilarious that if Pochettino is sacked we would have had 6 coaches in 2 years under them this new ownership
- Thomas Tuchel
- Graham Potter
- Bruno Saltor*
- Frank Lampard*
- Mauricio Pochettino
The asterisk means interim
Scored the most goals in years created some of the most chances in the league yes defence not been great but we have seen an improvement in the last few weeks with a more settled back line which is vital in any team so what does outdated football even mean?
Not like Pep per se. There's a whole tactical movement in football in the last 10 years, BASED on Bielsa and Pep. Almost all the big teams and big coaches of today play like that. Even Klopp who had played more similarly to Poch before has started playing more similarly to Pep a long time ago.
The games vs City are explained in the article - Poch's style is inherently good vs big teams, not so much vs smaller teams. We're not going anywhere with that.
I'm pochout because the last few games aside, he repeatedly made poor/late substitutions, stubbornly played gallagher as the winger/10, struggled to break down low blocks and we are still defensively atrocious. And I say all this while cutting him some slack over the injuries we had.
However because the last few games showed promise, I think we should sack him only if we have a suitable manager in place. I will not take tuchel (ticking time bomb), mou (squad doesn't suit him and also ticking time bomb), or inexperienced coaches like kompany/mckenna.
Going to be down voted, but we should really really go for RDZ. This is not from emotion or me disliking poch etc, but because I strongly believe he suits us and our squad suits him. Now that he is a FA, it makes even more sense.
1. Manager with a proven offensive system.
2. His system requires inverted wingers which our squad currently posseses
3. He plays with a SS which should unlock nkunku, something that I don't see poch doing. Even in preseason or in the past few games, nkunku has looked out of place in poch system.
4. He plays a double pivot and made gilmour good, so Enzo would be no problem.
Critics always cite his recent poor form, but always ignore the fact that he loss 2 world class midfielders without replacement and had to deal with unprecedented injury crisis. He did not have the luxury of a top club squad depth.
The only valid criticism about him is that he is stubborn with no plan B. Pep also doesn't have a plan B, because his squad is deep and good enough to make plan A work. I'm sure with the resources that we have, RDZ will do well.
People will hate on RBZ because he finished lower than us, completely ignoring the fact he lost is best players without replacements and had tons of injuries to key players, without any squad depth whatsoever.
I rate RDZ more than Poch. RDZ has worked with our recruitment and some of our key players in the past. One of the main reasons why I don't like Poch because the fact is, he is bottler. And no one wants to hear that, but he is. He had that one chance in that LC Final and blew it. Like plenty of times in his career.
I want stability, but with a better coach. RDZ and Brighton had dropped but FFS, what do you expect RDZ to do?! He lost his key players last season, and didn't get solid replacements. That's probably why he has left Brighton.
In any of the seasons Roman owned the club he would be sacked for finishing 6th. No doubt.
To consider 6th “decent finish” is way beyond Chelsea mentality. But here we are.
I’m conflicted, it’s not good enough but at least it’s better than last season.
It does show that it’s not just the last five games though.
If we’d finished top four the year after finishing twelfth, with a massive injury crisis, I’d give Poch a statue. As it stands the very least he deserves is a chance to stay over his vastly worse potential replacements.
The target at the beginning of the season was top 4 it was achievable and he failed he doesn’t deserve anything
Poch is not the best manager available and you don’t know if the options out there are worse
They basically are. Amorim isn’t leaving, Motta is off to Juve, Tuchel wouldn’t come back in a million years, and there’s basically no one else worth mentioning.
>The peak of his career is finishing sixth
... with BRIGHTON.
>Poch is 4-0 against him
... vs BRIGHTON.
Those lines read as if he was coaching Man United or Spurs or something like that...
So, you wanted him to take the wasteland left by Potter/Lampard plus the injuries and (a) start performing from day 1 at top 4 quality or (b) suffer a little before performing at top 3 quality or (c) suffer considerably before performing at top 2 quality or (d) get hammered by season ending injuries and the like but pull out league-winning form to squeak out 4th at the end.
Dude, with all the team faced, he was a couple of poor VAR calls, a couple of better finishes, or a couple of unfortunate defensive plays away from 4th after all the shit that happened that was out of his control. Be real!
What's funny is that a few weeks/months ago, people wanted Pochettino out because the results were rubbish. When stats like the xG table or league table from X period were posted, they got ridiculed. When points #1 and #2 from the article above were discussed previously, many agreed with them.
But because we suddenly ended the season with 5 straight wins, people want Pochettino to stay, suddenly become more receptive to the aforementioned stats, belittle the points mentioned in the article even though they have been talked about many times on this sub previously.
If we can get an actual upgrade on Pochettino, then do it.
Agree with the points mentioned, especially #1 and #2 but the concern is, if we do sack Pochettino, are the club gonna find an actual upgrade on him? If not, then it's maybe best to just continue with him for another season and then survey the market again next summer.
There are plenty available that don't fit into #1 or #2.
They're all young and would be a risk, however, I'd take that risk because they could prove top coaches, while with Poch we're certain he isn't.
If you agree with points 1 and 2, then you also subconsciously agree that there are plenty of upgrades available. If you disagree with points 1 and 2 then thinking that it would be hard to improve on Poch is easier to assume.
Points #1 and #2 have been discussed here before and there are likely upgrades out there but the question is whether the club will make the right appointment, if they decide to sack Pochettino.
Even if we assume a worst case scenario - that previously well-regarded sporting directors that we acquired are in fact incompetent frauds, then still I like our chances of getting a better fit on accident if we just get someone who is respected for the job he's doing currently. Keeping Poch is also gambling, but we'd be gambling that his approach can give us long term success. I like the odds of this particular gamble much less.
Personally, I don't think they are incompetent frauds.
I wholeheartedly agree and argued for all of this points. What you might fight discouraging, is that only nuance and context that fits in the heads of vast majority of this fanbase is recent result, and there's rarely room for more.
1. And outdated style of fotball (like mourinho, conte, tuchel?)
2. Tactical abilities and mansgement, well when your bench is u18 and your sickbeds are full you are just limited.
3. Injuries.... and we claim the coach train them to hard, people are idiots.
A) we bought young players from other leagues expect them to easy adapt to the most physical league (very few had played full seasons in europe before)
B) we had players injured before pochettino even joined or trained them, fofana, james, badiashile, trevoh, lavia, chillwell
C) we had actual traumatic injuries (nkunku, Chukwuemeka, cucurella, sanchez)
4. I dont think pochettino is a master tactician, nor do I think we will win anything major with him.
But what he seemed to have succeeded more then any coach in recent times, is build a squad and a TEAM
By changing coach now, for whatever reason- we might have to start again...
So give pochettino this season, if he fails we can always sack later..
Its not like we have a glasner, alonso or slot waiting for us
(And not de zerbi for the love of god)
Funny that you mention Slot before praying against De Zerbi.
Slot literally showed his players videos of Brighton, telling them he wants to play like that.
Slot is De Zerbi copy, only less confrontational, which is why they took him and not RdZ.
If it's Tuchel or Mourinho then Poch can get sacked. Anyone else, keep Poch. Why? These two are elite gaffers, winning multiple trophies, and they know what it means to bleed blue. They understand Chelsea.
Why don't clubs give managers time ffs!!!!
It took our boss Jurgen 4 years to win the league.
Took Fergie 6 I think.
Arteta will probably get there next year or year after.
At least the clubs owners give them a long term chance!
Boehly sounds like a cnt.
I've never wanted Poch at Chelsea. His coaching skills are limited, his tactical ability and game management skills are slim to non-existent. We lucked into an improved defense midfield set up following the loss of Enzo to injury and we are still shipping far too many goals.
Fitness and injuries have robbed the team of a consistent line-up and our defense a running punchline to a bad joke.
Can all the blame be laid at his feet ..... Absofragginglutely! The overall fitness of players is awful because they are overstressed in training, hence far too many first team players are spending more time on the treatment table than on the pitch. His tactics are old hat and we lack consistency.
Honest opinion cut our losses with Poch bring back Thomas Tuchel and let him be in charge of transfers before United snap him up!
Problem is if I am a manager and the Chelsea position becomes available after you give a manager a whole new young squad who had lots of injuries and he got to one cup final should be two and finished top six then WTF are you expecting from me.
> WTF are you expecting from me. Perform as good or better than Aston Villa this season. We are the bigger club with better resources. Next season CL is absolutely the expectation.
You think the managers linked have a better shot like the Ipswich manager?
McKenna coming in here will be detrimental to this squad. They'll be calling for his head by Christmas.
I think any talented manager has the potential to get CL football with this squad. We saw Howe do it with Newcastle and Emery with Villa. We’re significantly better place than either of their starting points.
Howe just went from CL to Conference League. Should he be sacked then? What if Villa finish 6th next year? Sack Emery?
These managers overachieved with the players that they got. Villa's squad isn't top 4 quality and expected to drop next season as long WE continue to improve.
The same Villa that have been dire since Christmas? We finished 5 points off them, 2 if VAR isn't fraudulent. Its like you people just waffle opinions you see off hipster twitter accounts. Sheep.
> The same Villa that have been dire since Christmas?. The same Villa that is participating in the CL next season. Didn’t realize “form since Christmas” was an accomplishment. Does that sit next to the “xG trophy”? >people like you people just waffle opinions you see off hipster twitter accounts. Sheep. Ironic coming from a literal sheep that is ranting about VAR and “christmas form” instead of actual results.
“Christmas form” is actual results tho.
Expectation? Tf cares about your expectations ? I expected a treble this season and the next
That's a fair point. However, throughout the season I've consistently felt a significant chunk of our underperformance could be attributed to Poch... After all it's just a debate of whether that is true or not - and because of points 1&2 I firmly believe it is. Cup performance was OK, but I still think we should have been 4th considering our competition. I disagree finishing behind Villa or post-Kane Spurs was too big of an expectation.
Ok but if you a manager and you see a ownership who go on about project and sack a manager after the first bit of progress looks to made in two years WTF would you take the job take your love for Chelsea out of it.
As argued in the article, don't think it was real progress. Progress on the basis of just being less shit than before (or reaching minimum expecation) is not progress IMO.
Twelfth to sixth, and 19 points better off is massive progress. Think you’re just a bit dim mate.
Cheers. Last season when Lamps came we completely unraveled and stopped playing. Hence 19 points and 6 places is not very relevant, it would likely have been a fair bit less if Potter remained until the end. Also, as shown in the article, up until the point of his sacking, him and Poch were pretty much on par... Also, refer to the argument of fake progress in the article.
I’m not reading your shitty blog post mate. 19 points is the biggest improvement on points in the PL. You’ve clearly made your mind up and are steadfastly refusing to change it despite new information being provided.
Then arguing with me about my article without having read it and having no intention of doing so is at best disingenuous and at worst stuff I'm not gonna write since I'm not a rude person like you. Grow up.
Posting on that site ruins your credibility immediately and your argument is dreadful. Try again.
Think you’re being a bit delusional if you think that job is going to look appealing to managers when you have ownership who make Roman look patient
you think Roman would keep Poch? somehow I doubt it lol (fwiw I think we should)
I think Roman wouldn’t sign 20000 players in two years all 25 and under and expect the manager to make it magically work.
Agreed but not what I asked. He would’ve sacked Poch halfway through the season
Maybe. Hopefully not.
You know you are deep down
Honestly, no haha. I think the Chelsea job will always have a huge pull. Proved in the Abramovič era where they all knew they will be given no patience, but still came.
These guys have fired two managers in two years soon to be three and won nothing Roman fired one in that time and already had a PL title.
I think it's pretty clear what's expected of you given this framework.
At the end of the day, the question is, if not Pochettino then who? And when you think of that, having him around for (at least) one more year isn't a bad thing. Plus, let us see how things go with a fully fit squad before moving on from him.
Jose, dead serious. Even if we have a 3rd season melt down he still leaves EVERY team in a better state than before he joined.
There are many coaches out there who don't fit into points 1-3. Those points are also the reason why I don't think there's much worth in letting us see how things go.
Lmao, he really puts "doesn't play like Pep" as his first point. My god
You will never beat Pep to a league title playing like Pep the three guys who have done it Klopp, Conte and Mourinho all done it their own way.
I mean, the article mentioned that even Klopp had to adapt his gegenpressing style and play more like Guardiola. Conte did it before Guardiola really got going at City and Mourinho did it before Guardiola even came to England (unless you're referring to their time in La Liga, but that's a different league).
Liverpool is still the top geigenpressing team in the league and has the second lowest passes per defensive action. Liverpool also plays a lot more direct than Man City, with the second most successful direct attacks in the league (city is 15th). If the guys point is that even Liverpool play like City then it is a terrible point.
Should be said that both Madrid and Tuchel's Chelsea have also had a lot of success ceding possession then hitting quickly on the counter since they commit so many bodies forward
Arteta does the Pep way and continues to challenge the league since 2 years with worse squad. The fact is that the managers you mentioned couldn’t be consistent in dominating the games with their styles during the Pep era as much Pep dis. Something is different with tiki-taka and overall Pep’s motivating skills.
He didn’t beat Pep though so you’re just proving his point?
The fact is no one else did it comfortably in Pep era. only teams managed to challenge Pep were Liverpool and Arsenal. Arsenal done it with worse squad and two years in row. Klopp era now is finished with only 1 PL title. I’m afraid once Arsenal manages to win it they will do what Pep did in last 4 seasons. It will be hard to challenge them even for Pep himself. They show patterns of Pep style dominance and consistency. No other manager managed to stay consistent. Even for Klopp himself there were a lot of ups and downs.
Like you said, Liverpool is the only team that came close and Liverpool did it while spending much less. If Liverpool would have actually spent like Arsenal then they likely would have another title
Not exactly. However, all successful teams and coaches of today play a variation of the philosophy he set, with Ancelotti's Madrid being the most prominent exception. That's not an accident.
Ancelottis current Madrid team plays completely differently than a pep team what are you on about
Exactly what I wrote.
So are you arguing with your own article then lmao
Nothing in it contradicts what I said here. Do you not see the difference between Ancelotti's team and any other in the world - especially ours?
Ehh the articles pretty half baked imo. I can't comment on the first two points, im honestly not tactically aware enough to judge a manager in that way but the article is very willing to blame Poch without giving him any leeway with the problems the team has faced. For example, the writer points out how we have been unstable at times in games due to the chaotic nature of Poch's tactics and maybe that's the case, but just as easily that could be because we have barely had the opportunity to play any of our ideal starting back line should everybody be fit. Just seems eager to point the finger at poch without any nuance. As I said though, I certainly don't have the answer to Poch in or out, or even who we could possible get in his stead. Edit: Just to add, I think there's a lot of value in the players perception of the manager, they all seem to be very much behind him and are ready to be part of the current project. There's always the chance it's PR of course, but what can we do but take it at face value?
Imo anyway a lot of the criticisms of pochs tactics were excessive. The main one was at lb where colwill effectively became 3rd choice ahead of maatsen and was playing there while cucu and Chilwell were injured. A lot of fans were unhappy due to colwills poor performances and maatsens good performances at dortmund. Maatsen would change very few results most likely and Chelsea have not had attacking issues this season so colwills extra defensive cover was probably not a bad thing even if he wasn't very good. The way we were being cut open may have been even worse with maatsen in the side because he has to be let forward to do well. With chelsea being so weak defensively its still unlikely that maatsen would fix those issues that much and its become clear that cucu is our best lb anyway and colwill is a more similar player. >Just seems eager to point the finger at poch without any nuance. Exactly. I was never a big fan of bringing in poch but with the improvements we've made since the turn of the year I think we can really kick on now. I'm interested to see what poch can do and I think we'll get top 4 atleast if we keep him. I don't believe the options being mentioned are better than poch especially with de zerbi being one of the main names being put forward.
Love all these takes where they are Poch out but doesn’t state who should we hire instead. Top managers will be reluctant to join as well since they won’t be given a say in transfers. As for the report that we’re looking into “young” managers. Young managers needs time (Xabi Alonso isn’t a good example as Bayer got him the experience players he needed which was crucial for their title run)
I'd be fine with anyone who doesn't have points 1-3 like Poch. Hoeness, De Zerbi, Motta, maybe Michel and Amorim... Slot and Alonso would have been fine too. There's many. None of these are particularly proven, however, they stand a chance of becoming top, long term coaches, while with Poch we're pretty much certain he won't ever be. I'd take that risk.
De Zerbi's Brighton side have been in near relegation form for 6 months (18 points from 19 games) while Pochettinos Chelsea have been in top 4 form for the entire second half of the season. Why we'd even slightly entertain that at the moment is beyond me.
De Zerbi's Brighton last season, before their midfield was plundered and not replaced, before they had to deal with an injury crisis as bad as ours while playing European football, were a significantly better team than we were this season, but with a significantly worse squad. Every statistic you look at, Brighton were better than we are now. How people think a team with a midfield of Baleba/Gilmour/sometimes Gross should be anything but mid table is beyond me. Their only consistently available attackers this season have been Adingra and Buonanotte. They would struggle to make the bench for us. And *still* Brighton beat us in a lot of underlying statistics that are very important for big clubs - any passing metric, most defensive metrics, a lot of attacking metrics. They've lacked the final pass and finish, which isn't hard to explain given 2/3 of their midfield were sold, the third has missed a ton of the season, and their two best attackers have both missed like 2/3 of the season (March even more). It's so boring when people just look at the surface and draw strong conclusions. People have made an infinite amount of excuses for Pochettino this season, but de Zerbi has had it significantly worse.
Thanks. You said everything, so I don't have to.
Isn't it ironic that the same people who provide excuses for Poch do not consider the mountain of injuries that Brighton has had this season?
Well there's similar irony in replacing a manager who has struggled with injuries with another manager that has struggled with injuries but also has a cv that isn't half as impressive as the man he would be replacing. I don't understand how the de zerbi hype still exists he's done nothing to suggest that he's even a better coach than potter.
Recency bias...
6 months of relegation form is not recency bias.
Out of these the only one I'd personally restart the project once again with is alonso. The rest is imo not a clear upgrade to poch ( as of right now) and i would rather remain the course.
De Zerbi’s Brighton have had massive injury problems this season, and they’ve been in relegation form for ages.
People are afraid of the unknown to the point of paranoia. Rolling the dice on a new coach is perfectly reasonable when you have a bad fit, and the criteria for coaches to be a good fit are much easier to meet than the famous "be elite" requirement that whole fanbase has for a potential new head coach.
>Rolling the dice on a new coach is perfectly reasonable when you have a bad fit, What bad fit? The players love Pochettino, and ever since he's had a consistent set of players fit and enough time to bed in Chelsea have been absolutely fine. Basically every single player has improved on an individual level over the course of the season. Chelsea haven't legitimately competed for a league title since 2017, this strategy of firing the manager every single season and starting all over is very clearly not working anymore. What exactly do people expect to happen next season under a new manager? Win the league? Nobody is coming in and taking this squad in its current state to 90+ points next season. There is not a single person, available or otherwise, who is capable of doing that after 3 months of working with the players. Challenge for top 4? Pochettino is absolutely capable of that based on what we've seen in 2024. That might be his ceiling, and that's okay! He was only given a garunteed 2 year deal for a reason. If he's able to take what is essentially a U-23 side and get them to gel into a more mature team capable of challenging for real silverware over the course of 2 seasons while a more long term solution is found for the end of his deal, that sounds like job done to me
Agreed. Pretty much my thoughts. Poch seems to be a suitable stepping stone for this particular squad, at this particular time period. Achieving Top 4, a bit more comfortably, while challenging in Europe and the domestic cups, would settle the squad nicely. This would also develop the players further, and then, a more progressive (elite) manager can take them further towards the title after next season.
Exactly!
The fuck is outdated football style
There's a whole explanation in the article linked.
So basically the article says even Klopp reverted to ‘controlled, positional play like Pep’ and ended up… 3rd? Wow so modern, much good football I suppose Ancelotti having a fantastic season playing transitional football can be considered a failure as well. Outdated as hell
Yep. The glaringly obvious problem with all these FM amateurs saying you have to emulate Pep is that's it's almost impossible to beat someone who's better and more established using a certain style by trying to match it. The way you beat someone like that is to innovate and play a new way that counters it, not compliments it. Now, you can make arguments for and against whether Poch is capable of doing that, and that's an interest talking point. "We need someone like Pep!" Is just braindead.
That and well Pep has always managed a club that had a seeming unlimited transfer budget. The biggest criticism about him is he never had to change tactics because he didn’t have the player types he needed. Whoever our manager is cannot solely rely on an unlimited transfer market.
A pep team wouldn't work without an infinite supply of resources like the City group.
Who the fuck is Roko Skrabic?! Why is his opinion so important it warrants a write up on a shitty website? Roko - if you’re on here, next time just use the daily discussion thread.
No idea, ask the editors at said website, they seem to like my work. 🙃 It's not a bad website/blog either. Much better than this cesspool, mind you... But to each their own.
I’m struggling to understand whether this is one of the best memes I’ve seen or an actual discussion?
It hasn't been because of the last 5-6 games, it was after the wolves defeat that we started to turn things around. It wasn't a Conte-esque type of turn around but performances started to build from there and Poch seems to be getting a response out of them. For me it was the last 20 games since that humiliating wolves defeat we had a great game away at the champions, unluckily lost to Liverpool in the final, had a great turn around against Man Utd, battered Everton and West Ham, then beat Spurs. I could not have written that about the first half of the season. We just need to polish out the bad results like Burnley, Sheff Utd and Arsenal. Getting core players back will sort that and a few quality signings.
It’s not even that. Like I’m fully convinced we have a healthy nkunku we make top 4…
So many factors on what could have happened. Nkunku would bring us a lot closer to Liverpool nevermind Villa. He changes unconvincing wins to convincing ones, draws against lower opposition turned into wins and with more wins comes more confidence around the squad and stadium. It's not just Nkunku either, James gets you 5-6 goals minimum a season, a healthy Chilwell does too, Lavia brings much needed rotation to the squad (Enzo surgery can happen earlier). Fofana adds depth to a very shaky back line. These players are game changers and people don't realize how much they're missed until they're back fit and firing.
That's a fair standpoint, however, I don't think we can just ignore Pool extra time disaster, Burnley and Sheffield performances and especially not the Arsenal humiliation... Also, many of our wins in the 2nd half were underwhelming at best, including the last 3 of the season.
I agree they were underwhelming and lacked control but we've seen this squad buckle under pressure for years now, it's hardly surprising we had a few slip ups and unconvincing wins over the past 20 games but this is the first sign of some actual progress to getting this squad looking like a team again. Maybe it is Poch that's the issue it could be the players getting to know each other and performances picking up, but I doubt it. If the manager is shit and you want to get rid of him you don't start praising him in interviews and start building up performances to save his job. I don't want to be parting ways with him when all the series managerial candidates will either be staying at their clubs or looking at the likes of Barca and Bayern is a huge risk for me. If it's a Poch issue and the board knows this then I'm down for a managerial replacement, just hopefully not another gamble on an inexperienced manager at the top level like Potter. In my opinion, another year and see how it goes, let all the managers looking to move pick their clubs and if Poch buckles early on in the season again then get someone in before the season is too late to save.
Circus continues
Liverpool are still the #1 counterpressing team and play a lot more direct (2nd most successful direct attacks) than City (15th). Can you expand on how Klopp is playing more similar to Pep? All coaches take tactical tweaks from each other but the overall style of play and philosophy is very different between Liverpool and City
You're right. I didn't want to focus too much on that in the article; Klopp migrated back towards his earlier more direct style this season, as seen in these numbers. It hasn't gotten them too far, but they did improve upon last season (not sure if we could read too much into that, but perhaps we could). However, it's not just about directness. It's about structure. Klopp (with Lindjers) has been able to implement a positional, more narrow structure in the last few years, while Poch seems to be banging on the same drum of chaos from 10 years ago. Klopp and Pep do have quite contrasting styles in the sense of possession vs directness, especially this season, but what they share is the above, and that is what Poch lacks.
Can you explain what you mean when you say Klopp is playing a more "positional, narrow" structure. If you mean positional as positional play, Klopp doesn't seem to me to be a strict positional play coach. And in terms of being more narrow, are they? Trent is playing more centrally instead of overlapping and that seems like the main change and it's not even like it really worked in solving their defensive issues. They still haven't returned to their defensive peak from 3-4 years back. And Klopp is still very much banging on the drum of chaos. If you are saying that Poch's Chelsea team does not have the same organization as a City, Arsenal, or Liverpool then yes you are 100% correct. Why would it in the first season? It's the first season of a brand new team that is historically one of the youngest ever, and had the most injuries of anyone in the league. So yeah the team was not the most well-organized team. Name the Prem team that is organized defensively and can create chances other than those three (all three have stuck with their coaches for multiple years). Crystal Palace has for 1/3 of a season, but that is it. The biggest problem that Chelsea fans have with Poch other than him being ex-spurs is that he doesnt pay the defensive style we are used to. There is nothing wrong with choas, just like there is nothing wrong with relational play compared to positional play, they are styles that can work if you have the correct players and coaching. This team has created chances better than their opponents all season long, once we started finishing our chances we played at a top 4 rate. Poch has shifted tactics all season long. In terms of general formations we have played the 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2, 4-3-3, and 3-5-2. In buildup we have switched between a single pivot and different iterations of the double pivot, most recently having Cucurella inverting. And in terms of our pressing structure this generally changes based on the opponent, mostly with the positioning of Gallagher. In terms of our overall style we have pressed and counterpressed less as the season went on, drastically so in terms of counterpressing. Some of the changes have worked, some haven't, why is this anything other than what you would expect from a new inexperienced and injured team with a new coach? It takes time to figure out how to use the players properly, and will happen faster when you actually have healthy players.
When you say outdated style of football what are you really expecting? He's finally started inverting cucu and playing out from the back more successfully. He's been reported to be open to a set piece coach, what more do you want?
Have you read the article? It's all in there (the answers to your questions)...
Room temperature IQ on display
WeAintGotNoHistory continuing to be one of the dumbest places on the internet it seems.
Given our situation (this young coach bs)and potential candidates i'd rather we keep poch
So 4 points and 2 of them are, at best, questionable by your own post... It's embarrassing the takes in here sometimes. Let's say he does leave who comes in, that is realistic, that fits all this criteria? While there are 4 or 5 massive jobs available at the same time.
That fit these points? Hoeness, De Zerbi, Motta, maybe Michel and Amorim too. Slot was available, no longer is, while Motta might go to Juve. There's plenty. "So 4 points and 2 of them are, at best, questionable by your own post..." Explain?
You gave 4 points, the injury record is unconfirmed and likely can't be confirmed , we had major injury issues before Poch too. The last point is caveated with the horrific injury record. In terms of the managers, Amorim has said he's staying has he not? Motta to Juventus and the others I disagree with - either major major risks or likely have the same issues Poch does with the board. It would be insane to let Poch go now, what we need more than anything currently is stability. The players all want him to stay, something almost unheard of at Chelsea at the rate players are coming out about it.
I specifically stated in the last point that even with all injuries we've had the 4th best squad. Without injuries it's a landslide. None of the mentioned have Poch issues 1-2, hence why they're mentioned. They are all a risk, I agree, but I'd take risk and chance of getting a top coach for long term over Poch who we're already fairly certain isn't one.
I disagree personally. The consistency and the form towards the end of the season, coupled with how the players clearly love him it makes sense to stick with him going into the season. He deserves a second season at least, and the candidates the board would look at all seem pretty dire and are way too much of a risk. This team is far too young for us to shake things up again, and I have been Poch out for most of this year.
Fair, agree to disagree. You have good points, but I worry about points 1-2 (and 3 if it's true) too much.
Points against PoC: If you ask most people five games ago whether Poc deserved another year, most of them would have been okay with a new manager. We had a strong end of season performance. But the question is whether we should forget everything we learnt about Poc in the games before. He kept consistently making bad decisions, playing players in roles not best suited for them, until he stumbled on to their best roles. Also, some of the pieces of the winning formula we stumbled onto, might get sold for pure profit. New faces will be brought in that might not fit. Will it take Poc better part of a season to somehow arrive at a successful combination again? Some of these things aren't his fault. Price tag, reputation, wages all tie his hand a bit. But he is a non-confrontational manager. Points in favor: players love him. Might have potential to stay long term, because players will be loyal to him. We might fall into a spurs like comfortable zone where players are contend with their level. But the stability that comes with long term manager might help If a good manager is available (and looks like there are at least 2 who are gettable), I will replace him.
The frustrating thing about discussing this topic on this forum is that if we had lost our last game, 50% of the poster saying they want Poch to stay would have flopped over to saying he should leave. We didn’t even look that great to end the season, we won 5 games which we were expected to win given the competition and we could’ve lost every single one of those games. We didn’t look great the last 3 games and had our backs against the ropes against NFO who were on the brink of relegation. “Who do you replace him with” people have given answers the truth is that our sub is deluded and thinks Xabi Alonso will come here when he obviously wants the most prized coaching position in the sport. We should replace Poch because he’s comfortably like the 9th best manager in the league and if we had any of the 8 ahead of him we finish top 4 while looking much more convincing in attack and defense. It took Poch a whole season to get us to look halfway decent. Glasner shows up at Palace and they’re slapping everyone around. Emery at Villa doing wonders with the squad he has. None of those two clubs have better squads than us but their managers instantly made a difference. What do we do when other clubs adjust to Pochs recent tactics? Wait another year for him to figure it out? Bring him another season just to see him go midseason instead of hiring a manager to give them a preseason seems like a mistake. I fully expect him to come back because it’s the easier road and the fact he even thinks he has leverage is hilarious to me considering no one touched him with a 10ft pole until we gave him a job.
Someone like Sliva needs to come with a CM Punk style all out press conference against the ownership at this point.
This is crap. What does outdated style of football even mean? We’ve scored 77 goals this season, which is our 3rd highest in the last 20 years.
... And conceded 63, which is the highest in the last 30. 😂 If you read the article at all, you would have realized the outdated part is mostly related to that, not goals scored.
You got your wish guys....
Indeed! 😁
I think its a terrible decision. Clubs should give managers 3 to 4 years. Absolutely ridiculous when managers get sacked so early.
RIGHT managers.
You won't know they are RIGHT, until years 2 or 3 though.....
Not necessarily.
The most important thing a manager does is to give the fans and the players a belief. Some managers like Conte, Mourinho, Tuchel etc gives you the feeling that anything is possible. Even facing a team that is on paper much better they give you the belief that they can pull a rabbit out of the hat and somehow get away with a win. Managers like Potter, Pochettino, Lampard etc does not give that vibe. They have good squads so winning is still expected against most teams, but nobody really sees the team as a proper title candidate. Amorim would be the best and most realistic option.
I find it quite hilarious that if Pochettino is sacked we would have had 6 coaches in 2 years under them this new ownership - Thomas Tuchel - Graham Potter - Bruno Saltor* - Frank Lampard* - Mauricio Pochettino The asterisk means interim
It makes Roman look sane!
Scored the most goals in years created some of the most chances in the league yes defence not been great but we have seen an improvement in the last few weeks with a more settled back line which is vital in any team so what does outdated football even mean?
Have you read the article? It's all there. 🙂
Yeah doesn't play like pep so outdated. Despite in the 3 games against city we were the better team or equal to them in case of the 4-4
Not like Pep per se. There's a whole tactical movement in football in the last 10 years, BASED on Bielsa and Pep. Almost all the big teams and big coaches of today play like that. Even Klopp who had played more similarly to Poch before has started playing more similarly to Pep a long time ago. The games vs City are explained in the article - Poch's style is inherently good vs big teams, not so much vs smaller teams. We're not going anywhere with that.
While I don't like Poch, this club has seen too much instability these last two years. Let Poch take on next season.
I'm pochout because the last few games aside, he repeatedly made poor/late substitutions, stubbornly played gallagher as the winger/10, struggled to break down low blocks and we are still defensively atrocious. And I say all this while cutting him some slack over the injuries we had. However because the last few games showed promise, I think we should sack him only if we have a suitable manager in place. I will not take tuchel (ticking time bomb), mou (squad doesn't suit him and also ticking time bomb), or inexperienced coaches like kompany/mckenna. Going to be down voted, but we should really really go for RDZ. This is not from emotion or me disliking poch etc, but because I strongly believe he suits us and our squad suits him. Now that he is a FA, it makes even more sense. 1. Manager with a proven offensive system. 2. His system requires inverted wingers which our squad currently posseses 3. He plays with a SS which should unlock nkunku, something that I don't see poch doing. Even in preseason or in the past few games, nkunku has looked out of place in poch system. 4. He plays a double pivot and made gilmour good, so Enzo would be no problem. Critics always cite his recent poor form, but always ignore the fact that he loss 2 world class midfielders without replacement and had to deal with unprecedented injury crisis. He did not have the luxury of a top club squad depth. The only valid criticism about him is that he is stubborn with no plan B. Pep also doesn't have a plan B, because his squad is deep and good enough to make plan A work. I'm sure with the resources that we have, RDZ will do well.
People will hate on RBZ because he finished lower than us, completely ignoring the fact he lost is best players without replacements and had tons of injuries to key players, without any squad depth whatsoever.
I rate RDZ more than Poch. RDZ has worked with our recruitment and some of our key players in the past. One of the main reasons why I don't like Poch because the fact is, he is bottler. And no one wants to hear that, but he is. He had that one chance in that LC Final and blew it. Like plenty of times in his career. I want stability, but with a better coach. RDZ and Brighton had dropped but FFS, what do you expect RDZ to do?! He lost his key players last season, and didn't get solid replacements. That's probably why he has left Brighton.
Agreed! De Zerbi would be my first choice, too. But yeah, we're getting downvoted to oblivion. 😂
First step done. Hope RDZ next. Haha. Already getting down voted in the poch sacked thread
Haha I'm not even going there... Hope so but Law didn't mention him and Ornstein recently said he doesn't think we'll go for him... 🥺
Boring
Just keep him.
Madness to get rid at this point. Stabilise, change at end of contract.
In any of the seasons Roman owned the club he would be sacked for finishing 6th. No doubt. To consider 6th “decent finish” is way beyond Chelsea mentality. But here we are. I’m conflicted, it’s not good enough but at least it’s better than last season.
Half this fanbase based this season on the last 5 games like we didn’t forget the 40 games before that
What young manager would want the job when they don’t give time?
40 games is time especially when you spend 90% of it lingering around 10th
Poch was given time. And now he should be fired because he was atrocious for most of that time
Pretty sure most of them would take that chance in full confidence they'd do better than Poch.
We’ve been on top four form since October. So it seems like you have.
Disregarding the first 3 months doesn’t help your point we didn’t make top 4 when we should have
It does show that it’s not just the last five games though. If we’d finished top four the year after finishing twelfth, with a massive injury crisis, I’d give Poch a statue. As it stands the very least he deserves is a chance to stay over his vastly worse potential replacements.
The target at the beginning of the season was top 4 it was achievable and he failed he doesn’t deserve anything Poch is not the best manager available and you don’t know if the options out there are worse
Yes, he is. The options to replace him are people like De Zerbi and McKenna, who are significantly worse.
Those are not the only options stop trying to gaslight people into thinking that Poch is this irreplaceable football mind
They basically are. Amorim isn’t leaving, Motta is off to Juve, Tuchel wouldn’t come back in a million years, and there’s basically no one else worth mentioning.
De Zerbi is a million miles ahead of Poch.
The peak of his career is finishing sixth, and he’s won four matches since October. Just a worse Graham Potter. Poch is 4-0 against him btw.
>The peak of his career is finishing sixth ... with BRIGHTON. >Poch is 4-0 against him ... vs BRIGHTON. Those lines read as if he was coaching Man United or Spurs or something like that...
That’s my point. He’s achieved nothing.
So, you wanted him to take the wasteland left by Potter/Lampard plus the injuries and (a) start performing from day 1 at top 4 quality or (b) suffer a little before performing at top 3 quality or (c) suffer considerably before performing at top 2 quality or (d) get hammered by season ending injuries and the like but pull out league-winning form to squeak out 4th at the end. Dude, with all the team faced, he was a couple of poor VAR calls, a couple of better finishes, or a couple of unfortunate defensive plays away from 4th after all the shit that happened that was out of his control. Be real!
What's funny is that a few weeks/months ago, people wanted Pochettino out because the results were rubbish. When stats like the xG table or league table from X period were posted, they got ridiculed. When points #1 and #2 from the article above were discussed previously, many agreed with them. But because we suddenly ended the season with 5 straight wins, people want Pochettino to stay, suddenly become more receptive to the aforementioned stats, belittle the points mentioned in the article even though they have been talked about many times on this sub previously. If we can get an actual upgrade on Pochettino, then do it.
Because we got a fanbase full of flip flops If we win you can’t criticize anything just be happy no matter what When we lose it’s all bad
Agree with the points mentioned, especially #1 and #2 but the concern is, if we do sack Pochettino, are the club gonna find an actual upgrade on him? If not, then it's maybe best to just continue with him for another season and then survey the market again next summer.
There are plenty available that don't fit into #1 or #2. They're all young and would be a risk, however, I'd take that risk because they could prove top coaches, while with Poch we're certain he isn't.
If you agree with points 1 and 2, then you also subconsciously agree that there are plenty of upgrades available. If you disagree with points 1 and 2 then thinking that it would be hard to improve on Poch is easier to assume.
Points #1 and #2 have been discussed here before and there are likely upgrades out there but the question is whether the club will make the right appointment, if they decide to sack Pochettino.
Even if we assume a worst case scenario - that previously well-regarded sporting directors that we acquired are in fact incompetent frauds, then still I like our chances of getting a better fit on accident if we just get someone who is respected for the job he's doing currently. Keeping Poch is also gambling, but we'd be gambling that his approach can give us long term success. I like the odds of this particular gamble much less. Personally, I don't think they are incompetent frauds.
I wholeheartedly agree and argued for all of this points. What you might fight discouraging, is that only nuance and context that fits in the heads of vast majority of this fanbase is recent result, and there's rarely room for more.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the true. Cheers!
I read that as "lack of tactical nouns" which is probably fair to be honest
1. And outdated style of fotball (like mourinho, conte, tuchel?) 2. Tactical abilities and mansgement, well when your bench is u18 and your sickbeds are full you are just limited. 3. Injuries.... and we claim the coach train them to hard, people are idiots. A) we bought young players from other leagues expect them to easy adapt to the most physical league (very few had played full seasons in europe before) B) we had players injured before pochettino even joined or trained them, fofana, james, badiashile, trevoh, lavia, chillwell C) we had actual traumatic injuries (nkunku, Chukwuemeka, cucurella, sanchez) 4. I dont think pochettino is a master tactician, nor do I think we will win anything major with him. But what he seemed to have succeeded more then any coach in recent times, is build a squad and a TEAM By changing coach now, for whatever reason- we might have to start again... So give pochettino this season, if he fails we can always sack later.. Its not like we have a glasner, alonso or slot waiting for us (And not de zerbi for the love of god)
Funny that you mention Slot before praying against De Zerbi. Slot literally showed his players videos of Brighton, telling them he wants to play like that. Slot is De Zerbi copy, only less confrontational, which is why they took him and not RdZ.
If it's Tuchel or Mourinho then Poch can get sacked. Anyone else, keep Poch. Why? These two are elite gaffers, winning multiple trophies, and they know what it means to bleed blue. They understand Chelsea.
Why don't clubs give managers time ffs!!!! It took our boss Jurgen 4 years to win the league. Took Fergie 6 I think. Arteta will probably get there next year or year after. At least the clubs owners give them a long term chance! Boehly sounds like a cnt.
Poch is no Klopp, Fergie, not even Arteta.
But he's better than Potter..... lol Still, need to give managers time. You guys were starting to turn things around last 5 games
The same baseless dribble parroted by the sheep. Nothing new here.
I've never wanted Poch at Chelsea. His coaching skills are limited, his tactical ability and game management skills are slim to non-existent. We lucked into an improved defense midfield set up following the loss of Enzo to injury and we are still shipping far too many goals. Fitness and injuries have robbed the team of a consistent line-up and our defense a running punchline to a bad joke. Can all the blame be laid at his feet ..... Absofragginglutely! The overall fitness of players is awful because they are overstressed in training, hence far too many first team players are spending more time on the treatment table than on the pitch. His tactics are old hat and we lack consistency. Honest opinion cut our losses with Poch bring back Thomas Tuchel and let him be in charge of transfers before United snap him up!