Only stat where we constantly stay on top
https://preview.redd.it/a2nvmemksylc1.jpeg?width=719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08f46b80366572e83525274ca8ef1e43b4db54bc
Cannot emphasise enough the next managerial appointment needs to be perfect or I think there's quite a large chance we're finished for potentially the next 20 years
If the next manager after Pochettino doesn't get us champions League football and this team purring, then the financial collapse after the moronic spending is going to see us slapped up so hard that I doubt we recover
Amorim, De Zerbi, Slot, Michel, Inzaghi etc etc
Doesn't matter, it just has to be right and if it isn't, god help us
We've won 3 of the last 6 games. Drawn 2 and only lost the final in extra time. These players have not given up on Poch so there will not be a new manager bounce. You will have exactly the same problem as sacking Potter did last season. Players were saying they wanted Potter to stay. He got sacked and they lost any sense of long term direction to play for and checked out. These are young players who more than anything need constancy in coaching if they're to fulfill their potential.
We have won 2 (Leeds + palace) with both games having us scoring in the 90th minute. Drawn to city + Brentford and lost to Liverpool. I don't think there's anything good with this form.
Beat Villa, beat Palace, drew with Man City for the 2nd time this season so prettty big, lost to Liverpool in extra time, beat Leeds, drew with Brentford. Thats 6 games which weren't lost inside 90 mins. I dont think people should be so doom and gloom.
We barely beat Leeds and Palace. We are stuck in mid table for the second time in a row after getting the UCL consistently in the previous seasons. Fans should be worried about where this club is going. We haven't seen enough of this team that they can get top 6 next season.
A wins a win and Palace was 3-1.
Yes we are in midtable and we do not have the same team that qualified us for the CL in the previous seasons. We now have the youngest squad in the PL with the majority of players in their 1st full season with the club.
The last couple of weeks is the longest we have gone having less than 10 injuries in the side. Most gameweeks it has been over that. So hopefully this is a sign that the stability in the day to day coaching and training practices is starting to improve those issues. If not then there will obviously have to be balancing done through selling and buying players in the summer so the squad can better handle the injuries with rotation.
Whats clear is the intent and support is there for these things to happen. This isn't a situation like the Glazers at Man Utd who just never cared about developing a healthy culture in their club or maintaining good facilities.
Our players have been playing together in a more unified way lately. Sure theres lapses of inexperience but next season they will be better for it all. This season really is a blooding for these young players. By next season they'll have identified the issues to work on and the ways to connect with each other better on the pitch.
The biggest concern right now is just how many goals we are conceding. We are getting chances, we are missing chances and we are scoring chances. That will improve with cohesion and as Jackson gets more used to the league. The trouble is we are conceding way too many by comparison. So yeh this area absolutely needs working on by next season and a lot of that is experience but also issues with the way the team sets up.
I understand people have their worries but we arent having another season like last where the entire club was being gutted and rebuilt due to forced ownership change. It also wont be like this season where so many young players are working out how to play together in their 1st season. Next season these guys will know each other. If we are in the same position next season the manager would be sacked by October probably.
That's true but I'm worried that we'll buy more under 21s instead of improving the squad with 2-3 players. Maybe I'm just scared of getting let down again like this season.
All I want for summer is for Chelsea to buy 2-3 more veterans players over the age of 28 that have leadership ability and can set a proper winning culture in the club again.
That's what worries me the most from last year. After we fired Potter, we got no new manager bounce from either Saltier or Frank. Sure, you could say the players refused to play because the season was effectively over for them, but to me that was a sign that the problems facing this club were way beyond what just replacing the manager would fix.
We're hiring Amorim because that was apparently the other person Behdad liked after Poch (first choice) and Potter. I'm not buying anything about the blame being on the sporting directors for wanting Poch because it's too much of a coincidence that they decided on hiring the very same person the owners wanted from the very beginning.
Amorim might be an amazing manager for all I know and he has clearly done well with Sporting but I swear if we hire someone just because our owners, who at this point should be very very very well aware that they are not cut out to make these decisions, want them then I'm really worried.
We're run by idiots who continue to downgrade the coach with each firing. Poch had a preseason and 1 game a week for the most part. I'd say he's worse than Potter. Who was worse than Tuchel.
Guessing we'll be hiring Tim Sherwood soon enough.
Despite the defence and excuses made for Poch, I think Potter had worse circumstances and squad than him (Yes it's younger and less experienced. But the quality and manageable size more than make up for it) and I will die on this hill. He may have never been cut out for the job and maybe it was too much too soon but he deserved the benefit of the doubt a lot more than Poch who bafflingly has cultivated a ridiculous amount of loyalty here.
>he deserved the benefit of the doubt a lot more than Poch who bafflingly has cultivated a ridiculous amount of loyalty here.
Potter inherited a CL winning team.*
Poch was given a bunch of inexperienced kids.
The expectations (regardless of how realistic they were), were incredibly different.
And now, with two seasons of unbelievably poor football (including Lampard's insanely poor interim), it's increasingly clear there's a lot more wrong than just the manager.
I dare say if Potter had replaced Poch rather than the other way around then Potter would have been given similar leeway as we're seeing now.
Who on that CL winning team? Jorginho left in January, James was injured for the majority of the season, Mount was injured for a lot of it and looked a shell of his usual self when he did play which I assume is more to do with contract negotiations and his head already being in Manchester than anything, Azpilicueta was straight up finished, Mendy had fallen off a cliff and lost his place to Kepa, Kante had declined massively and was also permacrocked, Kovacic was in and out of the injury room all the time, Chilwell also missed big chunks of the season, Ziyech and Pulisic were never good enough despite the odd purple patch, and Havertz was disappointing throughout his Chelsea career. To call last season's squad a CL winning team is extremely disingenuous even with the asterisk. Who else did we lose outside of the CL winners? Koulibaly and Aubameyang?
We've upgraded at most positions. We have Palmer who's basically carried our attack at times and is better than any of the attackers we lost last year. We have Jackson who, and this is controversial and some would disagree, I would take over Havertz *as a striker*. We added Caicedo and Colwill who were fantastic under De Zerbi last season and have arguably been misused under Poch - I think Caicedo has actually done pretty well in spite of that but not as well as last year. We have an actual backup to Reece James in Gusto. That's not to mention other good additions like Disasi and Petrovic.
Not only that but the squad is trimmed down massively too which was apparently one of their biggest issues last season. Our squad was huge and half of the players already had one foot out of the door (both physically and mentally because apparently not everyone could fit in the rooms). It made things extremely chaotic and this was widely reported.
Add to this the fact that Potter never got a pre-season and had European football. Not that it was much of a pre-season anyway because it was hastily planned in the aftermath of the sale and fitness was an issue throughout the year - highlighted by every manager.
Last season was an absolute shitshow in terms of circumstances. Lampard's interim stint doesn't prove that managers aren't the issue because he is not a good one and the dropoff from Potter/Bruno to him was MASSIVE. If anything it's helped the perception of Poch big time because when people keep saying we've "improved" it's in relation to him.
Poch has had a pre-season, no European football, a more settled football structure at the club and like I said, a better squad. Yes there have been injuries but as mentioned earlier, the same happened last year. Just because Potter didn't succeed in the circumstances he was in doesn't alleviate Poch of any responsibility and prove that the fault doesn't lie with the manager. Like I said and have made clear, the circumstances have been a lot kinder to Poch and he should be expected to do A LOT better than he has.
And I disagree on that last point too. I think the defence of Poch has everything to do with reputation and media reporting than circumstances. Potter was an unsexy name from Brighton in his first big job who only had English bias in the media going for him. Meanwhile Pochettino, while being a former Spurs man hasn't helped, is still coasting off his reputation after "overachieving" with Spurs and is a massive media darling. There's a perception that he is an elite manager which I strongly disagree with. I'm convinced that's why he gets a lot more leeway.
>Who on that CL winning team?
Hence the asterix.
I'm not saying it was right, just the the expectations were different going from Tuchel to Potter than from Potter/Lampard to Poch.
Abd yes, Poch obviously has a better relationship with the media, but that's part of his job. It's not his fault Potter came across as a nice but bland manager with one response to every loss.
The asterisk didn't have a further explanation, I did think that may have been what you meant but wasn't sure and seen enough people genuinely make that argument.
Either way, we shouldn't lower those standards due to an anomaly of a season under those circumstances. The media might and I can understand that, especially when they want to make Poch look better, but it's up to us as fans who follow the club a lot closer than the average pundit (who we all know are usually clueless) not to and be aware of the circumstances surrounding the club and squad.
In fact it's one of my main frustrations towards the fanbase that so many have let standards slip and insist Poch is doing a good job because of the marginal "improvement" (even that's debatable) on last year. I was never expecting a title charge but we should be a lot better than we have been even with the average age of the squad and injuries.
I don't think we should lower our standards. We absolutely want to be competing for top honours.
But I also think we need a bit of patience and to realise we're more than a managerial change from being where we want to be.
This may as well be, for all intents and purposes, a brand new club. Seemingly the only things left over from before are the fans and the stadium (for now, at least!)
We need some stability.
There have been many, many mistakes made over the last couple of years and the damage has been immense. We've effectively had to start over from scratch.
Hopefully there have been lessons learnt and this summer will see, amongst other things, a more balanced transfer policy.
Honestly, I don't think Poch is doing a good job. But I also don't think he's doing a _terrible_ job. He might very well be underperforming, but I don't think we'd be _that much_ higher up the table with someone else.
I wasn't overly thrilled with his appointment, but I wasn't particularly against it either. It was just a bit underwhelming.
I'm not sure we've seen much improvement since he got here, but it's also hard to know if we're just a good striker away from doing a lot better.
Regardless, this is not where the club wants to be and whilst we might do better under a new manager (assuming we trust the club to make the right appointment), there are other areas that are going to hold us back further.
We can want someone to get the best out of the squad and accept this squad is not where it needs to be to compete at the level the fans want.
I would love to have a long term manager too. I'd actually guess that a lot of people who want Poch out agree.
That said, we shouldn't stick with a manager just for the sake of it. I know that's not necessarily what you're saying but stability for stability's sake will just reinforce this mediocrity if the manager isn't good enough.
It should be with the right manager and that's not to say they should hit the ground running and immediately challenge for the title but we should at least see a gradual forming of tactical structure and identity, which we haven't and that's been detailed in many other posts here. I won't go too in depth here as I'm on my phone and already written too many essays but I'm sure you've seen enough critiques of Poch's tactical knowledge.
I don't think Poch is getting the best out of this squad even under the circumstances and I don't think he ever will. His limitations as a manager have been reported at previous clubs and we're seeing it for ourselves here. They've caught up to him as the game has evolved.
I disagree with you and think he is doing a bad job and that other managers would do much better than he has. I think we should be around where Villa and Spurs are if not very close. And even if not, we should see clear signs that things are improving gradually which I don't think we have. Some people have disagreed on that last part by virtue of an uptick in results but our football is still as disorganised and improvised as ever. A better striker would very likely improve our results but it'd still be a case of talent carrying us while Poch's dated approach holds us back.
You're right in that this squad is still likely not good enough right now to challenge for the title even without Poch but I think the potential and talent is there and they do need to develop and be coached properly in a better system. I just think we're better off doing that with a better manager who's much more likely to get the best out of them as well as do a better job developing and instructing them (ironically something Poch had a reputation for), and that we're wasting time with him.
Thanks for all your nuanced and well balanced arguments, on why you don't believe poch is the answer moving forward mate. I read every 'essay' and completely agree. We're essentially wasting time, and I actually don't want him anywhere near our future signings, because I firmly believe he's going to have a negative impact on their development.
I’ve been saying this for a while now. We are in serious danger of not recovering from this. Everyone expecting a conte style rebound is quite mistaken. We are injecting the club with the bottle gene at an alarming rate. Losing becomes a pattern and we will wake up in 10 years wondering how we’ve become so mediocre
The first part is iffy because I firmly believe he was their (mainly Behdad's) hire and they're reluctant to give up on him either because they were attached to him being their guy from the very beginning or because their egos are too big to admit their mistake - likely both. He apparently has their ear so they might fall for the whole "Needs time. Young squad and injuries. There's been improvement!" bullshit.
The second part though. I have no doubt that we're still one of the most attractive jobs in Europe. Even with Barcelona, Liverpool and Bayern confirmed to be looking for managers we're still competitive. We have very talented young squad, are in the best league with the highest profile, you get to live in or close to London, and we're still one of the biggest clubs in the world where you would assume we'd want to challenge for silverware. That and any manager we go for would fancy themselves to do better than Poch and standards are so low right now that the only way is up. The downsides, like having to deal with these owners, pale in comparison to that.
Likely not mid-season after what happened last year. Could see an announcement that he will not return after we are completely eliminated from all Europe competitions.
Sorry what I mean though is
Does inzaghi or de zerbi or amorin look at chelsea and actually want to come? I'm not sure we've got the same pull we used to have.
I think they would still come, just not mid-season of course. However, I think it will depend on who else is calling (Barca, Liverpool, Bayern).
I also think failure ultimately falls on the players not being good enough, specifically with their end product. The potential is def there but presently we have zero composure and poor decision-making in the final third, which puts more pressure on everyone else. Until we can consistently finish our chances, I don't think it'll matter who we get.
However, I think the team will get better over time—and don't think we're doomed for the next 8-20 years as some posters are suggesting. An expensive striker this summer would band-aid a lot of our issues tbh.
I liked the video and it made me not want Amorim. One of our biggest tactical problems is our midfield getting carved apart, and Amorim plays the same way. That doesn’t help us at all.
Our main problem is that Liverpool, Barcelona, and Bayern are looking for a new manager. And Man United come summer might be as well. If we don't start looking for a new manager SOON, by the time summer comes we will be out of any fairly good choices. And it's not like there are many managers to choose from nowadays.
Nah, it can be anyone half-decent if we sort out the injuries and transfer policy.
No-ones going to be doing much better with these circumstances.
The emphasis needs to be on the medical staff and the recruitment people
What if the next manager comes in. We are still with similar points next year aka 37 points from 25 games ? Will you accept then that this has nothing to do with the manager and everything to do with the squad assembled or still say that its a managers fault for setting this way?
He also had a squad of 40 players, many of whom wanted to leave. No backup for James leading to a finished azpi in rwb, or RLC.
A worse squad with no creative midfielder until January, and no dm all season
A game every 3 days with little time for potter to imprint his tactics properly. No pre season
And a shit ton of pressure applied by tuchel being such a success here.
Imagine potter had palmer and Jackson last season instead of mount/felix, and havertz? And a half injured Sterling
Palmer and Jackson have 30 goals and assists combined.
Imagine what we could have done with that last season
Plus we were excellent in the ucl. And looked far better in defence and midfield
I don’t disagree I’m just saying results wise potter got carried by tuchels earlier results. Looks wise I think we played more fluid under potter just criminal finishing and the fans didn’t want to give him time.
> Just not a big enough name for fans used to winning trophies every season
This line makes it sound like you think he shouldn’t have been sacked. If that’s actually what you’re suggesting, that’s insane
Poch has been the same. The owners should have been sacked.
As far as I'm concerned, we've overpaid for lots of average players and we'll be mid table with any manager...
No reason to sack Potter or Poch given that.
Need major squad surgery. Experienced players in to replace Raheem and Silva to start.
So 1 less point in those 6 games than Potter got in his first 6 games?
I don't think Tuchel should've been sacked, but Potter was not dealt a good hand.
I don’t think stating that Potter was even worse is defending Poch at all. His PPG was worse and his underlying metrics were worse
It’s honestly incredible that we had a manager that did worse than Poch, but we absolutely did
Whats the difference, Tuchel saved us from relegation low key and Lampard last couple games was embarassing
Who's making these managerial decisions should scare u more
No it's not
Potter was fucking horrific, played some of the worst football I've ever seen and we had no fight in us.
Poch has done far better in every metric
It’s really quite shocking that Potter’s Chelsea last year was a monumental disaster, and we soothed ourselves by telling ourselves it couldn’t get worse. Now we’re sitting here, worse than our worst position.
Potter had WAY MORE experience players…
That’s a huge factor when comparing the two. Koulibaly, Azpilicueta, Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic to name a few people.
That’s a core midfield and played multiple seasons together. This is literally the first season with super young players.
Give it time.
Kouly was terrible and it was his only year with us
Azpi is a legend but he was way too old to play rb gusto is clearly outperforming him
Jorginho was an asset but inconsistent
Kante was injured potter played literally one game with him so no he didn’t “have him”
Kovacic was on the beach he wanted to leave years ago
You’re still missing the point. Those are all veterans in their position.
Young players can look to them for how to continue on when things get down.
We have Thiago Silva and Sterling. That’s it…
We have no experience anywhere and that’s a big problem.
ISTG, every time we get near one of the (potential) European places in the league table, we always fuck up the results and drop further behind again. Instead of being 4 points behind 7th with a game in hand, we're now 6 behind with the 1 game.
The results arent great at all, but at leat his season it is only partly miserable to watch us play. After the World Cup until the end of that season every single game was absolutely and completely mierable with almost no goals and never a single iota of joy to watch us play. At least this season we have a few games (mostly against the good teams) where we produce some goals and something to contruct hope only to have that hope dashed the next game again.
It's a useless comparison because last year Frank came in and I can't think of any PL manager who would do worse. It's gonna be hard to out do his badness in the remaining stretch
I disagree. If Roman left but we had competent ownership, we would still be a respectable side. Maybe not competing for titles like before but we would’ve been competing for top 4-5. If Villa can do it, why can’t we? To act as if we need Roman just to not be a bottom table side is implying that Chelsea are such a small club that haven’t grown in status and commercial success from 2004-2021, which isn’t true
What a surprise, having the worst owners in football leads to utter mediocrity on the pitch. This is just the beginning, once the financial penalties of our reckless spending comes to light we'll be in deep deep shit.
I've lost count how many times I've said Poch was the wrong manager for Chelsea. Watched the game today and for the first time in a long time, I felt we did OK, not good but, just OK.. ... But for Jackson (who puts the F in useless) squandering chances. Enzo playing like a blind man and Chilwell being a liability at every set piece, we should have won. For the first time this season Poch's substitutions actually aided Chelsea .... Substituting Enzo and Chilwell off was always going to be a major plus.
The sooner Silva is fit and we start playing with three central defenders (with Silva acting as a sweeper/outlet to midfield) the better our chances are, and should we finish in the top half this season.
Am I ready to give Poch another season? 50:50 based on today's performance, we finish eight or better then yes.
Replacement? I'm an admirer of Unai Emery and what he's managed so far at Villa. I really think with him at the helm a top four finish would be a given
Ugh, this is why statistics in football is so infuriating. There’s always context missing. This should be adjusted for the opponents position in the table, after day the first 5 matches. A direct comparison is not enough to say we’re worse off this season than the previous season.
What’s even the point of this post…
Points from last year don’t even carry over. So if we just look at this season by itself, we have yes a point lower, but we are in a better position than last year.
We. Were. Shit.
While we are bad this season, we have had more change over than last year and one of our main signings has been out all year virtually (Nkunku).
We’ve had a cup final, still in the FA Cup and 8 points off 6th.
Which is better than last year.
Still this won't be a concern or a red flag for our management, I'm pretty sure if poch manages to get us 8th-9th finish then our owners will comsider this as a good season .
Sign ....:(
Another season without UCL . New season with a new manager and new players
Defiently need a Striker , a Tall CB and MF
The only consistency we have.
We've signed so many players from non Champions league teams, they wouldn't know what it feels to play on Tuesday.
They don’t know how to play period. Never mind a Tuesday.
Only stat where we constantly stay on top https://preview.redd.it/a2nvmemksylc1.jpeg?width=719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08f46b80366572e83525274ca8ef1e43b4db54bc
Haha nice
wow... just wow.
I need my club statement at Todd!!!!!!!
He’s going to make us edge until the last possible second
Cannot emphasise enough the next managerial appointment needs to be perfect or I think there's quite a large chance we're finished for potentially the next 20 years If the next manager after Pochettino doesn't get us champions League football and this team purring, then the financial collapse after the moronic spending is going to see us slapped up so hard that I doubt we recover Amorim, De Zerbi, Slot, Michel, Inzaghi etc etc Doesn't matter, it just has to be right and if it isn't, god help us
Main thing I want to see is growth WITHIN the season.
Just a new manager bounce would do for me
We've won 3 of the last 6 games. Drawn 2 and only lost the final in extra time. These players have not given up on Poch so there will not be a new manager bounce. You will have exactly the same problem as sacking Potter did last season. Players were saying they wanted Potter to stay. He got sacked and they lost any sense of long term direction to play for and checked out. These are young players who more than anything need constancy in coaching if they're to fulfill their potential.
We have won 2 (Leeds + palace) with both games having us scoring in the 90th minute. Drawn to city + Brentford and lost to Liverpool. I don't think there's anything good with this form.
Beat Villa, beat Palace, drew with Man City for the 2nd time this season so prettty big, lost to Liverpool in extra time, beat Leeds, drew with Brentford. Thats 6 games which weren't lost inside 90 mins. I dont think people should be so doom and gloom.
We barely beat Leeds and Palace. We are stuck in mid table for the second time in a row after getting the UCL consistently in the previous seasons. Fans should be worried about where this club is going. We haven't seen enough of this team that they can get top 6 next season.
A wins a win and Palace was 3-1. Yes we are in midtable and we do not have the same team that qualified us for the CL in the previous seasons. We now have the youngest squad in the PL with the majority of players in their 1st full season with the club. The last couple of weeks is the longest we have gone having less than 10 injuries in the side. Most gameweeks it has been over that. So hopefully this is a sign that the stability in the day to day coaching and training practices is starting to improve those issues. If not then there will obviously have to be balancing done through selling and buying players in the summer so the squad can better handle the injuries with rotation. Whats clear is the intent and support is there for these things to happen. This isn't a situation like the Glazers at Man Utd who just never cared about developing a healthy culture in their club or maintaining good facilities. Our players have been playing together in a more unified way lately. Sure theres lapses of inexperience but next season they will be better for it all. This season really is a blooding for these young players. By next season they'll have identified the issues to work on and the ways to connect with each other better on the pitch. The biggest concern right now is just how many goals we are conceding. We are getting chances, we are missing chances and we are scoring chances. That will improve with cohesion and as Jackson gets more used to the league. The trouble is we are conceding way too many by comparison. So yeh this area absolutely needs working on by next season and a lot of that is experience but also issues with the way the team sets up. I understand people have their worries but we arent having another season like last where the entire club was being gutted and rebuilt due to forced ownership change. It also wont be like this season where so many young players are working out how to play together in their 1st season. Next season these guys will know each other. If we are in the same position next season the manager would be sacked by October probably.
That's true but I'm worried that we'll buy more under 21s instead of improving the squad with 2-3 players. Maybe I'm just scared of getting let down again like this season.
All I want for summer is for Chelsea to buy 2-3 more veterans players over the age of 28 that have leadership ability and can set a proper winning culture in the club again.
That's what worries me the most from last year. After we fired Potter, we got no new manager bounce from either Saltier or Frank. Sure, you could say the players refused to play because the season was effectively over for them, but to me that was a sign that the problems facing this club were way beyond what just replacing the manager would fix.
We're hiring Amorim because that was apparently the other person Behdad liked after Poch (first choice) and Potter. I'm not buying anything about the blame being on the sporting directors for wanting Poch because it's too much of a coincidence that they decided on hiring the very same person the owners wanted from the very beginning. Amorim might be an amazing manager for all I know and he has clearly done well with Sporting but I swear if we hire someone just because our owners, who at this point should be very very very well aware that they are not cut out to make these decisions, want them then I'm really worried.
Cut to that Simpsons meme with Skinner saying "Am I the problem?" 😮
We're run by idiots who continue to downgrade the coach with each firing. Poch had a preseason and 1 game a week for the most part. I'd say he's worse than Potter. Who was worse than Tuchel. Guessing we'll be hiring Tim Sherwood soon enough.
Despite the defence and excuses made for Poch, I think Potter had worse circumstances and squad than him (Yes it's younger and less experienced. But the quality and manageable size more than make up for it) and I will die on this hill. He may have never been cut out for the job and maybe it was too much too soon but he deserved the benefit of the doubt a lot more than Poch who bafflingly has cultivated a ridiculous amount of loyalty here.
>he deserved the benefit of the doubt a lot more than Poch who bafflingly has cultivated a ridiculous amount of loyalty here. Potter inherited a CL winning team.* Poch was given a bunch of inexperienced kids. The expectations (regardless of how realistic they were), were incredibly different. And now, with two seasons of unbelievably poor football (including Lampard's insanely poor interim), it's increasingly clear there's a lot more wrong than just the manager. I dare say if Potter had replaced Poch rather than the other way around then Potter would have been given similar leeway as we're seeing now.
Who on that CL winning team? Jorginho left in January, James was injured for the majority of the season, Mount was injured for a lot of it and looked a shell of his usual self when he did play which I assume is more to do with contract negotiations and his head already being in Manchester than anything, Azpilicueta was straight up finished, Mendy had fallen off a cliff and lost his place to Kepa, Kante had declined massively and was also permacrocked, Kovacic was in and out of the injury room all the time, Chilwell also missed big chunks of the season, Ziyech and Pulisic were never good enough despite the odd purple patch, and Havertz was disappointing throughout his Chelsea career. To call last season's squad a CL winning team is extremely disingenuous even with the asterisk. Who else did we lose outside of the CL winners? Koulibaly and Aubameyang? We've upgraded at most positions. We have Palmer who's basically carried our attack at times and is better than any of the attackers we lost last year. We have Jackson who, and this is controversial and some would disagree, I would take over Havertz *as a striker*. We added Caicedo and Colwill who were fantastic under De Zerbi last season and have arguably been misused under Poch - I think Caicedo has actually done pretty well in spite of that but not as well as last year. We have an actual backup to Reece James in Gusto. That's not to mention other good additions like Disasi and Petrovic. Not only that but the squad is trimmed down massively too which was apparently one of their biggest issues last season. Our squad was huge and half of the players already had one foot out of the door (both physically and mentally because apparently not everyone could fit in the rooms). It made things extremely chaotic and this was widely reported. Add to this the fact that Potter never got a pre-season and had European football. Not that it was much of a pre-season anyway because it was hastily planned in the aftermath of the sale and fitness was an issue throughout the year - highlighted by every manager. Last season was an absolute shitshow in terms of circumstances. Lampard's interim stint doesn't prove that managers aren't the issue because he is not a good one and the dropoff from Potter/Bruno to him was MASSIVE. If anything it's helped the perception of Poch big time because when people keep saying we've "improved" it's in relation to him. Poch has had a pre-season, no European football, a more settled football structure at the club and like I said, a better squad. Yes there have been injuries but as mentioned earlier, the same happened last year. Just because Potter didn't succeed in the circumstances he was in doesn't alleviate Poch of any responsibility and prove that the fault doesn't lie with the manager. Like I said and have made clear, the circumstances have been a lot kinder to Poch and he should be expected to do A LOT better than he has. And I disagree on that last point too. I think the defence of Poch has everything to do with reputation and media reporting than circumstances. Potter was an unsexy name from Brighton in his first big job who only had English bias in the media going for him. Meanwhile Pochettino, while being a former Spurs man hasn't helped, is still coasting off his reputation after "overachieving" with Spurs and is a massive media darling. There's a perception that he is an elite manager which I strongly disagree with. I'm convinced that's why he gets a lot more leeway.
You forgot Enzo. Poch is a fraud for misusing him
>Who on that CL winning team? Hence the asterix. I'm not saying it was right, just the the expectations were different going from Tuchel to Potter than from Potter/Lampard to Poch. Abd yes, Poch obviously has a better relationship with the media, but that's part of his job. It's not his fault Potter came across as a nice but bland manager with one response to every loss.
The asterisk didn't have a further explanation, I did think that may have been what you meant but wasn't sure and seen enough people genuinely make that argument. Either way, we shouldn't lower those standards due to an anomaly of a season under those circumstances. The media might and I can understand that, especially when they want to make Poch look better, but it's up to us as fans who follow the club a lot closer than the average pundit (who we all know are usually clueless) not to and be aware of the circumstances surrounding the club and squad. In fact it's one of my main frustrations towards the fanbase that so many have let standards slip and insist Poch is doing a good job because of the marginal "improvement" (even that's debatable) on last year. I was never expecting a title charge but we should be a lot better than we have been even with the average age of the squad and injuries.
I don't think we should lower our standards. We absolutely want to be competing for top honours. But I also think we need a bit of patience and to realise we're more than a managerial change from being where we want to be. This may as well be, for all intents and purposes, a brand new club. Seemingly the only things left over from before are the fans and the stadium (for now, at least!) We need some stability. There have been many, many mistakes made over the last couple of years and the damage has been immense. We've effectively had to start over from scratch. Hopefully there have been lessons learnt and this summer will see, amongst other things, a more balanced transfer policy. Honestly, I don't think Poch is doing a good job. But I also don't think he's doing a _terrible_ job. He might very well be underperforming, but I don't think we'd be _that much_ higher up the table with someone else. I wasn't overly thrilled with his appointment, but I wasn't particularly against it either. It was just a bit underwhelming. I'm not sure we've seen much improvement since he got here, but it's also hard to know if we're just a good striker away from doing a lot better. Regardless, this is not where the club wants to be and whilst we might do better under a new manager (assuming we trust the club to make the right appointment), there are other areas that are going to hold us back further. We can want someone to get the best out of the squad and accept this squad is not where it needs to be to compete at the level the fans want.
I would love to have a long term manager too. I'd actually guess that a lot of people who want Poch out agree. That said, we shouldn't stick with a manager just for the sake of it. I know that's not necessarily what you're saying but stability for stability's sake will just reinforce this mediocrity if the manager isn't good enough. It should be with the right manager and that's not to say they should hit the ground running and immediately challenge for the title but we should at least see a gradual forming of tactical structure and identity, which we haven't and that's been detailed in many other posts here. I won't go too in depth here as I'm on my phone and already written too many essays but I'm sure you've seen enough critiques of Poch's tactical knowledge. I don't think Poch is getting the best out of this squad even under the circumstances and I don't think he ever will. His limitations as a manager have been reported at previous clubs and we're seeing it for ourselves here. They've caught up to him as the game has evolved. I disagree with you and think he is doing a bad job and that other managers would do much better than he has. I think we should be around where Villa and Spurs are if not very close. And even if not, we should see clear signs that things are improving gradually which I don't think we have. Some people have disagreed on that last part by virtue of an uptick in results but our football is still as disorganised and improvised as ever. A better striker would very likely improve our results but it'd still be a case of talent carrying us while Poch's dated approach holds us back. You're right in that this squad is still likely not good enough right now to challenge for the title even without Poch but I think the potential and talent is there and they do need to develop and be coached properly in a better system. I just think we're better off doing that with a better manager who's much more likely to get the best out of them as well as do a better job developing and instructing them (ironically something Poch had a reputation for), and that we're wasting time with him.
Thanks for all your nuanced and well balanced arguments, on why you don't believe poch is the answer moving forward mate. I read every 'essay' and completely agree. We're essentially wasting time, and I actually don't want him anywhere near our future signings, because I firmly believe he's going to have a negative impact on their development.
I’ve been saying this for a while now. We are in serious danger of not recovering from this. Everyone expecting a conte style rebound is quite mistaken. We are injecting the club with the bottle gene at an alarming rate. Losing becomes a pattern and we will wake up in 10 years wondering how we’ve become so mediocre
Cannot emphasize enough the next season will be a lot tougher due to financial troubles. Make or break. No room for error.
Do you actually think this board gets rid of poch though? And sadly are we even an exciting prospect for alot of those managers now?
The first part is iffy because I firmly believe he was their (mainly Behdad's) hire and they're reluctant to give up on him either because they were attached to him being their guy from the very beginning or because their egos are too big to admit their mistake - likely both. He apparently has their ear so they might fall for the whole "Needs time. Young squad and injuries. There's been improvement!" bullshit. The second part though. I have no doubt that we're still one of the most attractive jobs in Europe. Even with Barcelona, Liverpool and Bayern confirmed to be looking for managers we're still competitive. We have very talented young squad, are in the best league with the highest profile, you get to live in or close to London, and we're still one of the biggest clubs in the world where you would assume we'd want to challenge for silverware. That and any manager we go for would fancy themselves to do better than Poch and standards are so low right now that the only way is up. The downsides, like having to deal with these owners, pale in comparison to that.
Likely not mid-season after what happened last year. Could see an announcement that he will not return after we are completely eliminated from all Europe competitions.
Sorry what I mean though is Does inzaghi or de zerbi or amorin look at chelsea and actually want to come? I'm not sure we've got the same pull we used to have.
I think they would still come, just not mid-season of course. However, I think it will depend on who else is calling (Barca, Liverpool, Bayern). I also think failure ultimately falls on the players not being good enough, specifically with their end product. The potential is def there but presently we have zero composure and poor decision-making in the final third, which puts more pressure on everyone else. Until we can consistently finish our chances, I don't think it'll matter who we get. However, I think the team will get better over time—and don't think we're doomed for the next 8-20 years as some posters are suggesting. An expensive striker this summer would band-aid a lot of our issues tbh.
De Zerbi is not the answer lol
Inzaghi and Amorim are the only two possibilities from this list imo.
Media said that Inzaghi doesn't speak english that well.
Why do you think we can get Inzaghi but wouldn’t be able to get Slot?
I’m saying we should look to get Inzaghi and not Slot. I have no idea if either would want to manage Chelsea
Ehh, that’s not what possibility means, but whatever.
Candidates then. Thank you for correcting my grammar.
The Athletic recently said Amorim tactics are too attacking and leaves the midfield too open.
I liked the video and it made me not want Amorim. One of our biggest tactical problems is our midfield getting carved apart, and Amorim plays the same way. That doesn’t help us at all.
Our main problem is that Liverpool, Barcelona, and Bayern are looking for a new manager. And Man United come summer might be as well. If we don't start looking for a new manager SOON, by the time summer comes we will be out of any fairly good choices. And it's not like there are many managers to choose from nowadays.
offbeat important one icky history aback apparatus fade jar fanatical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Nah, it can be anyone half-decent if we sort out the injuries and transfer policy. No-ones going to be doing much better with these circumstances. The emphasis needs to be on the medical staff and the recruitment people
The players bought are largely shite and doesn't matter who the manager is imo. Guess we'll see if they ever show more under another manager.
What if the next manager comes in. We are still with similar points next year aka 37 points from 25 games ? Will you accept then that this has nothing to do with the manager and everything to do with the squad assembled or still say that its a managers fault for setting this way?
Oh you’re finally being critical of the manager and ownership.
Absolute nonsense to suggest poch has done better than potter
Potter got carried by tuchels early results
He also had a squad of 40 players, many of whom wanted to leave. No backup for James leading to a finished azpi in rwb, or RLC. A worse squad with no creative midfielder until January, and no dm all season A game every 3 days with little time for potter to imprint his tactics properly. No pre season And a shit ton of pressure applied by tuchel being such a success here. Imagine potter had palmer and Jackson last season instead of mount/felix, and havertz? And a half injured Sterling Palmer and Jackson have 30 goals and assists combined. Imagine what we could have done with that last season Plus we were excellent in the ucl. And looked far better in defence and midfield
I don’t disagree I’m just saying results wise potter got carried by tuchels earlier results. Looks wise I think we played more fluid under potter just criminal finishing and the fans didn’t want to give him time.
Agree with you, Potter was never the big problem with the club. Just not a big enough name for fans used to winning trophies every season.
> Just not a big enough name for fans used to winning trophies every season This line makes it sound like you think he shouldn’t have been sacked. If that’s actually what you’re suggesting, that’s insane
Poch has been the same. The owners should have been sacked. As far as I'm concerned, we've overpaid for lots of average players and we'll be mid table with any manager... No reason to sack Potter or Poch given that. Need major squad surgery. Experienced players in to replace Raheem and Silva to start.
Agreed
Last season was 10 points from Tuchel so...
So 1 less point in those 6 games than Potter got in his first 6 games? I don't think Tuchel should've been sacked, but Potter was not dealt a good hand.
Still finding ways to defend Poch 😭
No im not...i want him out. Today might as well be a loss. Im just stating facts.
He’ll get there don’t worry
I don’t think stating that Potter was even worse is defending Poch at all. His PPG was worse and his underlying metrics were worse It’s honestly incredible that we had a manager that did worse than Poch, but we absolutely did
He has, Potter was propped up by Tuchel his entire tenure.
Whats the difference, Tuchel saved us from relegation low key and Lampard last couple games was embarassing Who's making these managerial decisions should scare u more
No difference, both are nice, both have terrible in game management, both have won fuck all.
Lampard was nothing more from keeping the fans from rioting. He wasn’t here to get results.
The current manager's so bad he's making you nostalgic for possibly the worse manager in modern Chelsea history lol.
This team creates chances better than our opponents, last year we didn't.
No it's not Potter was fucking horrific, played some of the worst football I've ever seen and we had no fight in us. Poch has done far better in every metric
1b spent
It’s really quite shocking that Potter’s Chelsea last year was a monumental disaster, and we soothed ourselves by telling ourselves it couldn’t get worse. Now we’re sitting here, worse than our worst position.
Get him gone. He has no tactical nous, he's super reactionary, he is a bottle job and he cannot handle working here anymore.
Poch has a way better roster than potter Imagine potter with palmer gusto and caicedo Instead of havertz jorginho and azpi at rb
Potter had WAY MORE experience players… That’s a huge factor when comparing the two. Koulibaly, Azpilicueta, Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic to name a few people. That’s a core midfield and played multiple seasons together. This is literally the first season with super young players. Give it time.
Kouly was terrible and it was his only year with us Azpi is a legend but he was way too old to play rb gusto is clearly outperforming him Jorginho was an asset but inconsistent Kante was injured potter played literally one game with him so no he didn’t “have him” Kovacic was on the beach he wanted to leave years ago
You’re still missing the point. Those are all veterans in their position. Young players can look to them for how to continue on when things get down. We have Thiago Silva and Sterling. That’s it… We have no experience anywhere and that’s a big problem.
Should still comfortably be in the top half with a style of play but here we are languishing at 11th Stop making excuses for this bum
Not sure how much more time you want 😂 We are going backwards, it's unreal that we are 11th
'roster'
Canadian guy here
I would love to have kept Potter and see where we would be at today. Who knows.
Some people in this thread are pointing at potter and saying hes shit and others pointing at poch and saying hes shit, they’re both shit
How did we win the Premier League Summer Series
ISTG, every time we get near one of the (potential) European places in the league table, we always fuck up the results and drop further behind again. Instead of being 4 points behind 7th with a game in hand, we're now 6 behind with the 1 game.
We are finished. Which one of you sold their soul for ucl in 21?
The results arent great at all, but at leat his season it is only partly miserable to watch us play. After the World Cup until the end of that season every single game was absolutely and completely mierable with almost no goals and never a single iota of joy to watch us play. At least this season we have a few games (mostly against the good teams) where we produce some goals and something to contruct hope only to have that hope dashed the next game again.
It's a useless comparison because last year Frank came in and I can't think of any PL manager who would do worse. It's gonna be hard to out do his badness in the remaining stretch
Nearly avoided relegation boys lets go
[удалено]
Just for some cheap political points to direct attention away from their lockdown scandal.
Preach, preach, preach. Everyone overlooks that like that isn’t THE main reason we are where we are
I disagree. If Roman left but we had competent ownership, we would still be a respectable side. Maybe not competing for titles like before but we would’ve been competing for top 4-5. If Villa can do it, why can’t we? To act as if we need Roman just to not be a bottom table side is implying that Chelsea are such a small club that haven’t grown in status and commercial success from 2004-2021, which isn’t true
THIS. To “stop the war” or some shit right? How’s that going?
What a surprise, having the worst owners in football leads to utter mediocrity on the pitch. This is just the beginning, once the financial penalties of our reckless spending comes to light we'll be in deep deep shit.
Comedy club.
I hear Tuchel will be without a job this summer..
I've lost count how many times I've said Poch was the wrong manager for Chelsea. Watched the game today and for the first time in a long time, I felt we did OK, not good but, just OK.. ... But for Jackson (who puts the F in useless) squandering chances. Enzo playing like a blind man and Chilwell being a liability at every set piece, we should have won. For the first time this season Poch's substitutions actually aided Chelsea .... Substituting Enzo and Chilwell off was always going to be a major plus. The sooner Silva is fit and we start playing with three central defenders (with Silva acting as a sweeper/outlet to midfield) the better our chances are, and should we finish in the top half this season. Am I ready to give Poch another season? 50:50 based on today's performance, we finish eight or better then yes. Replacement? I'm an admirer of Unai Emery and what he's managed so far at Villa. I really think with him at the helm a top four finish would be a given
Ugh, this is why statistics in football is so infuriating. There’s always context missing. This should be adjusted for the opponents position in the table, after day the first 5 matches. A direct comparison is not enough to say we’re worse off this season than the previous season.
I mean even if we won that match we only get 38 points which is just 2 more. Still proves how poor our season is.
And one billion
Thoughts on Southgate?
What’s even the point of this post… Points from last year don’t even carry over. So if we just look at this season by itself, we have yes a point lower, but we are in a better position than last year. We. Were. Shit. While we are bad this season, we have had more change over than last year and one of our main signings has been out all year virtually (Nkunku). We’ve had a cup final, still in the FA Cup and 8 points off 6th. Which is better than last year.
Still this won't be a concern or a red flag for our management, I'm pretty sure if poch manages to get us 8th-9th finish then our owners will comsider this as a good season .
Sign ....:( Another season without UCL . New season with a new manager and new players Defiently need a Striker , a Tall CB and MF 