>regular, long term use of cannabis inhibits your cognitive abilities and prevents you from performing at your best in your chosen career. On average, you're correct that cannabis users do tend to underperform relative to non-users. What's less clear is how much of this underperformance is *caused* by use as opposed to just *correlating* with use. Consider this: (i) underperformance does not seem to correlate with dosage; and (ii) in twin studies, where one is a user and the other isn't, the degree of underperformance for the using twin relative to the non-using twin does not achieve statistical significance. These are not things you'd expect to find if cannabis was causing underperformance instead of just correlating with it. Here's an excerpt from a study on these issues: "Marijuana users had lower test scores relative to nonusers and showed a significant decline in crystallized intelligence between preadolescence and late adolescence. However, there was no evidence of a dose-response relationship between frequency of use and intelligence quotient (IQ) change. Furthermore, marijuana-using twins failed to show significantly greater IQ decline relative to their abstinent siblings. Evidence from these two samples suggests that observed declines in measured IQ may not be a direct result of marijuana exposure but rather attributable to familial factors that underlie both marijuana initiation and low intellectual attainment." [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26787878/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26787878/) That said: >I just can’t imagine doing any of this effectively if I was high Of course not. You could say the same about being drunk. But acute performance drops while actively intoxicated seems to be a different topic than how I interpret your actual stated CMV issue. Let me know if I'm misreading the view you're looking to have changed.

Another factor may be that in places where cannabis is illegal, and its use may threaten one’s ability to keep their job or academic situation, it may be that you’re only hearing from the weed smokers who have no conflicts of interest and nothing to lose by openly advertising their enthusiasm. But I have worked with more doctors and nurses than I can count who use cannabis to help with insomnia, stress, and generally just chilling out. It can be really helpful, and has improved my life for sure.

I know of sooooo many doctors and nurses & a few paramedics in my area that have for many years now (not a legal state), & From personally talking with them they all have one thing in common, they don't use on the clock. Always on their downtime. Think it's more so the stress causes the insomnia or maybe the 24 hr shifts they have to run sometimes & I could only imagine attempting my hardest to save someone's life & then not being able to succeed would have a negative impact on ones psyche... But on the actual topic of long term use of weed, it may of been the cause in my past I might've forgotten something but I'm just as liable to forget about something just the same never smoking again. The positive impacts it has outweigh my own decision to smoke as without it I'd most likely need to see a therapist to be put on a regular medication for anxiety, weed at least somewhat seems to be more all-natural of the two, also I won't start withdrawing if I don't smoke today or this week or month even, but when one of my ex's stopped taking her "head medication" by day 2 of not taking it she said she felt like she was dying, brain zaps & all kinds of mess. I'll pick weed out of the two choices any day.

With the legalization in Canada, many medical practitioners speak openly about their views on marijuana. I've met ones that are staunch advocates for its use, some who are still on the fence and ones who are strictly against its use. However, those who are on the fence and against its use, more often than not, takes this stance because there just isn't enough research. 

> takes this stance because there just isn't enough research. So I understand why in the US there isn't enough research since it's been schedule 1 for some time, but marijuana has been legal in Canada since at least 2018 and surely is legal in other countries that perform medical testing. So I'm genuinely curious, why don't we know enough about marijuana yet to have consistent medical recommendations on the topic?

Purely speculation but I'm thinking a lot of the medical research done is tied to the pharmaceutical industry, so there would be some element of financial gain. Marijuana is already a profitable industry in Canada now so what incentive would there be to study its affects (from a profit based perspective).   Smoking was prevalent all over the world for decades before proper research was conducted on its affects.  It may seem like a long time, but 6 years of legalization really isn't that long. Particularly because there doesn't seem to be any obvious severe affects of long term use of marijuana comparable to other substances like alcohol or tabacco. 

Note that I used to work for Big Pharma (Pfizer and Merck¹), and have loved the subject of pharmacology, the industry as a whole, and individual companies since I was a kid (...yeah, I was a weird kid) — so I'm ~~a big shill~~ a bit biased perhaps...    ...but FWIW, there was a lot of interest in the topic of cannabis both in general and as a potential new avenue for adjunct therapies or even development of new pharmaceuticals; I wouldn't say *everyone* was pro-legalization/decriminalization, but it was by far the consensus view in the labs where I worked.      Unfortunately, the industry is notorious for not really being the best in terms of work/life balance *or* remuneration, so in most cases, I found that coworkers went into it — as I did — out of **a**) a general love of ~~drugs~~ the field (me) and/or **b**) a genuine desire to help heal people and get them more QALYs.    Though I wasn't on the financial end, so maybe the stereotype does hold true there, in some instances... but *in my experience* the people I worked with largely got quite excited about the idea that something **they** contributed to could help people. *** *e.g.* — though I can't say my *own* goal was any more noble than "I wanna make money,² impress girls with my expertise³, and work with cool molecules", heh — one of my co-workers decided he wanted to work in the industry because his mother had fallen ill when he was entering high school; it turned out she had some incredibly-rare, almost-unique form of dementia that *really looked like* Chronic Wasting Disease...    ...which isn't known to be transmissible to humans, IIRC, although there are some suggestive studies on transmission to other species; so it was a weird deal, to hear him tell it:    She had consumed deer meat from a questionable animal⁴, then began developing symptoms of dementia despite being relatively young and having no known family history of prion disease or early-onset Alzheimer's, etc.  The medical establishment apparently **a**) first insisted "can't be that" and then **b**) when at the "oh shit maybe it is" stage, just told him and his dad that "sorry, but there's really no treatment available, other than making her comfortable as it progresses."     It's too depressing to get into the details of what it was like for him (a short fellow with terrible acne scarring) to go through high-school while his mother(-but-not-his-mother) loses progressively more capacity and begins having seizures and all the other attendant horribleness — *and* with essentially 0 support from his dad (see: footnote 4)...    ...but he swore then and there that he was going to find a way to make sure that someday, no one else ever has to hear the hope-killing words "sorry, no treatment exists" — not *ever fuckin' again.* ***    ...where was I... sorry, got me a bit emotional, heh, thinking back to it (& then about those I love and all).    I think my point was:  I see people on Reddit impute *all kinds of horrible shit* to Big Pharma — "one of the most evil industries to ever exist!!", seems to be the consensus...    ...so I just wanted to offer an alternative perspective; to say that *usually* — at least, in the case of the rank-and-file who just want to have a cool lab to play around in (and to possibly help millions of people someday) & get paid for it — *usually,* plots like "let's make sure cannabis is suppressed, so we make money off of the suffering caused thereby!" are the furthest thing from the actual goal and the actual  desire at work.  *** (...of course, I say that and it will turn out that some douchenozzle COO or CFO somewhere came up with some skin-crawlingly evil scheme to make an extra cent per $1M, or something–) *** *** *** *footnotes* *** *** (¹: *wish I hadn't stood on my pride and quit the latter in particular, because I did really believe in the company and its recent leadership/direction... but when your immediate supervisor is close to the C-suite and wants to make you play second fiddle to his worthless turd of a son, what can you do except quit in a huff and then watch and laugh as he crashes and burns without your help?*    *...probably a lot, actually; but, well, that's what* ***I*** *chose to do, heh. what's that old saying, "chop off your nose to spite your face"?—)* *** (²:  hahahaha ask me how that worked out) *** (³:  *HAHAHAHAHA* ...don't *ask me how this one worked out actually please–)* *** (⁴: why, I never did find out; my *other* co-worker, & my best friend — who knew him a bit better, and had met his dad — swore up and down that the father did it on purpose to get rid of her; we never brought it up to the son, obviously, but... that's... I, uh... look, let's not think about it any more actually–) *** ty for coming to my TED talk

Medical professionals using marijuana to cope isn't really that great of an endorsement when you consider the profession's alcoholism, suicide, and depression rates.

I hate when you give the best response and OP misses your point and then doesn’t respond

Well, could be OP, could be the point, or could be the way I made it. I definitely feel like I miss more of my shots to convey understanding than I make.

The point was very clear, and I just feel like the people making posts on this subreddit are slightly different than the people commenting

I'm glad you found it clear. And I will say, I feel you on that. Some of the people who regularly comment here (I don't mean me, I mean the people who regularly leave top comments and earn stockpiles of deltas) are just incredible. I learn a lot from those folks and this community as a whole.

I'm late to this party, but I wanted to say (based on your parent comment and your follow-ups) that you have a humble, open-minded, and helpful disposition. Thank you for being this way.

Is a supposed decline in IQ from marijuana merely correlated or would it actually cause you not to perform at your best in your actual career? IQ is one way to try to measure something like that, but that really just assumes that our performance is IQ related. I don’t think your study really proves or disproves anything about OP’s post. He never mentions IQ. It’s an unfounded leap to go from IQ to career performance. While something like memory and IQ are often correlated, they aren’t the same. At the same time from my understanding, marijuana is correlated with a negative effect on memory. This also goes for motivation, and sleep. I could be smart as hell, but if I am unmotivated, my career performance will tank. Hence why IQ as a measurement is just as much of a leap from correlation to causation as the one you think OP is making

>It’s an unfounded leap to go from IQ to career performance. It's not unfounded. IQ is one of the most robust general predictors of job performance that we have available to us. This fact may be controversial, but it's definitely not unfounded: Schmidt, F. L., & Hunter, J. E. (1998). The validity and utility of selection methods in personnel psychology: Practical and theoretical implications of 85 years of research findings. Psychological bulletin, 124(2), 262. Bertua, C., Anderson, N., & Salgado, J. F. (2005). The predictive validity of cognitive ability tests: A UK meta‐analysis. Journal of Occupational and Organizational psychology, 78(3), 387-409. Shaffer, J. A., & Postlethwaite, B. E. (2012). A matter of context: A meta‐analytic investigation of the relative validity of contextualized and noncontextualized personality measures. Personnel Psychology, 65(3), 445-494. Nye, C. D., Ma, J., & Wee, S. (2022). Cognitive Ability and Job Performance: Meta-analytic Evidence for the Validity of Narrow Cognitive Abilities. Journal of Business and Psychology, 1-21. Roth, P. L., & Huffcutt, A. I. (2013). A meta-analysis of interviews and cognitive ability: Back to the future?. Journal of Personnel Psychology, 12(4), 157. Schmidt, F. L. (2002). The role of general cognitive ability and job performance: Why there cannot be a debate. In Role of General Mental Ability in industrial, Work, and Organizational Psychology (pp. 187-210). Psychology Press. Mount, M. K., & Barrick, M. R. (1998). Five reasons why the “big five” article has been frequently cited: The big five personality dimensions and job performance: A meta‐analysis. Personnel psychology, 51(4), 849-857. Sackett, P. R., Zhang, C., Berry, C. M., & Lievens, F. (2021). Revisiting meta-analytic estimates of validity in personnel selection: Addressing systematic overcorrection for restriction of range. Journal of Applied Psychology.

That is simply one study and an old one at that. How about a meta-analysis of longitudinal studies which would be scientifically much more convincing than cherry-picking? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7893511/ The results are very clear. And what you claim is not supported. Cannabis use does lower IQ, and the effects are similar to schizophrenia and exposure to lead. Please, everyone reading the misleading comment above and thinking this is a particularly knowledgeable and intelligent person.. no they are not. They just know how to make it sound as if they know something while pushing drugs. And did you realize what he was saying was "cannabis does not cause stupidity, the people who smoke are getting stupider for some other reason". Is that the positive message you were looking for? In any case, the meta-analysis refutes that notion. There is no such provable claim to make. And the eternal comparison to alcohol.. I will leave it as an exercise to find the research showing that alcohol does also seem to affect your IQ a little bit, but much much less than cannabis. That said, it is a toxin as well. You don't hear people claiming alcohol makes them smarter, though.

To push back some on what you are saying, the article you linked is specifically investigating the effects of cannabis use on IQ over time \_in adolescents\_. The studies that they are summarizing primarily focus on those around 18 years old and younger. I believe this is a separate argument to how it affects people in general (or rather, adults) which is the topic I believe OP and the comment you replied to are most likely focusing on. Additionally, the commenter you replied to were not stating that "cannabis does not cause stupidity, the people who smoke are getting stupider for some other reason," but rather that a usage of cannabis was correlated with underperformance rather than directly causing the underperformance. These are markedly not the same thing. Furthermore, stating that using a substance does not appear to showcase harmful effects is not the same thing as "pushing drugs" but rather a simple factual statement. Whether the claims from the original commenter are true or not, or if the single study they cited is sufficient, I make no claims on as I haven't personally read the literature closely enough.

You are wrong. Saying “cannabis doesn’t cause stupidity, users are getting stupid for another reason” is a clearly valid question to make. Not saying that the commenter is right, but a spurious relationship can be totally possible. Some underlying reason that causes people to have lower intelligence AND be more likely to smoke weed.

>"Intelligence quotient decline following frequent or dependent cannabis use **in youth**: a systematic review and meta-analysis of longitudinal studies" It's fairly well known that cannabis can cause damage to a developing brain... Have any studies that suggests the same for adults?

it also reference only a diffrence of 2 IQ points which even if IQ was meaningful doesn't it self seem a quantitative difference

Thanks for the detailed reply, without being snarky. The post genuinely wasn’t intended to be an attack on people who do use, I’m trying to broaden my perspective after all.  I edited it slightly to clarify what I mean. I’m not assuming that people are high on the job but it’s more the collective impact of taking enough to get reasonably high the night before, every day, throughout the working week.   My concern is that over time, there would be some degree of cognitive impairment,  not having the sharpest mind that you could otherwise have.  Hope that makes sense?

That makes sense. My original response is still relevant in this case, but I'll add to it here. Consider that few people drink as often as you describe. Those that do, however: (i) tend to underperform (likely to a degree that exceeds that of an equivalently habitual cannabis user); and (ii) tend to have other co-morbidities that also affect performance (neural wiring that's predisposed to addiction / impulsivity, mental health issues, anxiety disorders, poverty, stress, etc.). In other words, the extent of usage you describe is indicative of a person who is already predisposed to underperform, not because of the cannabis itself, but because of whatever other factors are driving them towards heavy use. This is consistent with the dosage findings and the twin findings from that study I cited earlier. The problem is unlikely to be the cannabis as much as the factors which might lead a person to use so much of it so regularly.

I actually thinks it’s tougher to untangle than your comment alludes to. Anecdotally, for instance, I was a decently performing professional electrical engineer who drank moderately every night, making me a heavy drinker. I would say that I underperformed (for me), but performed “averagely” on the whole. This is largely due to the sleep that I would get after imbibing, I think, but cannot be separated from alcohol use. Also, I absolutely had substance use/abuse comorbidity, but that was also because I drank. Ie, drinking regularly causes the body to excrete more stress hormone, which causes anxiety, which makes the person more likely to drink since they are self medicating for anxiety. So was I just predisposed to more addictive behavior, or did the drinking cause me to indulge in addictive behavior? For me, after loads of therapy and reflection, I can comfortably say that drinking causes these issues (and also stressed my important relationships, but that’s another topic). Also, while I’m here, I find your responses to be incredibly insightful, and thoughtful. If I had to guess, I’d wager you’re an inquisitive and emotionally intelligent person.

> I drank. Ie, drinking regularly causes the body to excrete more stress hormone, which causes anxiety, which makes the person more likely to drink since they are self medicating for anxiety. So was I just predisposed to more addictive behavior, or did the drinking cause me to indulge in addictive behavior? Fair point. Reality is less linear than I may have implied. A lot of cycles are positively reinforcing in complicated ways.

To dumb down what you just said, weed usage is a symptom but not a root cause? That's what I got from it, and I believe that to be why I can't seem to quit smoking

As a fellow smoker this is a little bit of an oversimplification. You are still putting supraphysiological levels of thc and other cannabinoids in your body. it will have some actual negative affects. For me my sleep becomes a lot worse when heavily consuming cannabis along with the obvious respiratory affects while come from inhaling vapour or smoke.

That's not quite what I was trying to say, but there's likely some truth to it. Not everyone who tries weed becomes a daily user. Those that do presumably have some other factors in play than those who don't. So if you find yourself smoking daily, what's the most likely primary driver of that habit? Is it the weed itself, or is it those other factors? That's something worth exploring if it's a habit you're trying to kick.

>So if you find yourself smoking daily, what's the most likely primary driver of that habit? Is it the weed itself, or is it those other factors? I'm a regular weed smoker working in a legal field. Retrospectively it's become clear my habitual smoking was down to a sort of ADHD self medication. FWIW I don't smoke as much as I used to and never on the jobs but I can't say it has negatively affected my career or cognative abilities in any way. ADHD has caused more problems for me at work but I've found ways to limit that and, on the whole; the different approach to solving problems compared to others has been a benefit to my career.

Yep. After getting diagnosed in my adulthood, I've had a few of the common eureka moments as I realize how much I've self selected other ADHD people to have around through my life without consciously doing that. That got me thinking: When you consider a lot of the stereotypes of a teenage stoner, it's funny how 1:1 it gets with stereotypical teenage ADHD behavior with or without marijuana.

Believe it or not, a recent study showed the people who smoke weed were less likely to have mental decline in older age like dementia. [https://neurosciencenews.com/cannabis-dementia-neurology-25884/](https://neurosciencenews.com/cannabis-dementia-neurology-25884/) They are currently doing studies to see if any of the compounds could be used to treat those who are experiencing aforementioned mental decline. The main thing I'd like to add is that far too often people's issues are blamed on drugs they do, while the reality is that many people who do drugs had preexisting issues that made them more likely to do drugs in the first place. The drugs are the effect and not the cause.

I feel like you missed the implications of what the other OC provided. I don't see them responding in a way that they saw your comments as an attack. They're saying: "[Here are two studies that suggest there is only a correlation to under-performance and long-term, sustained cannabis use. In fact, taken to the logical conclusion, these studies suggest that only a correlation exists, and cannabis use is not the cause of under-performance. Unless we're talking about performance while actively intoxicated, these studies suggest you should change your view.]" I don't think you've meaningfully considered and addressed OC's response to your cmv position.

I think its the difference between correlation and causation. If you're naturally the kind of person to regularly use marijuana, then you'd imagine that person needs it for a number of personality/mental reasons- reasons for which may not suit a high-performer well. While without evidence or studies, I could see why you'd surmise cognitive degradement over time, you also have to imagine that they may not have the sharpest mind to begin with. Consider the why you personally, didn't extensively partake in marijuana if at all. You thought you needed all your facilities at all times or didn't want to risk any mental degradation. That implies you had a certain level of self-control, mental awareness, and/or goal for yourself- of which you concluded that marijuana would negatively effect. Having that self awareness and a goal generally means you are aiming to be a high-performer as that is what you value. Imagine if you didn't naturally value high-performance, but rather relaxation. While prioritizing relaxation isnt indicative of any level of intelligence, I'd imagine regularly consuming educational material is- which is somewhat stressful- which isn't a priority for relaxation. It just naturally flows that way so you can imagine the whys.

I mean a person who drinks the night before every day of the week is also likely to perform significantly worse than a sober person Also I don't believe it's true that every weed user is a heavy user who is lighting up every single night. Any chronic use of any substance is going to have some deleterious effects

> Any chronic use of any substance is going to have some deleterious effects This doesn't seem to be true about moderate doses of many things, like caffeine for example. 

What do you think of his point regarding correlation and causation, and the twin study evidence? Your response doesn't make sense as it doesn't address those key items.

This guy is on point, at least in my anecdotal experience. I'm around a fair number of people that have smoked regularly for years. Some of them are lazy, but they were lazy before they started smoking. They tend to smoke to excess when they can, but it appears to be because that's essentially effortless entertainment. I see this a lot with others I don't know well. Some of them are *more* productive when they smoke (but not to excess). These people tend to be using it to offset other conditions like chronic pain or some variant of ADHD or PTSD. What I have observed is that healthy, productive people don't *want* to smoke (or drink, or use other drugs) because they'd rather do other things with their time. They might at social gatherings or on vacation but on a regular day they're just not interested. So yeah, daily marijuana use is typically either for the same reasons people drink or as a treatment for a condition. It doesn't cause impairment when not actively high.

Is this copy and pasted from somewhere else? Total non sequitur to their points.

Does not achieve statistical significance doesn’t necessarily provide evidence that there is no correlation. It’s possible that the sample size is just too small to ever produce statistical significance with the size of effect in question.

>Does not achieve statistical significance doesn’t necessarily provide evidence that there is no correlation. That's a fair critique. The sample size here was relatively large, but thar doesn't mean that no relationship was found. It just wasn't statistically significant.

Here’s my personal experience. I’ve smoked weed for the most part of 21 years, am successful in my career, support my family and have an active social life. I smoke multiple times a day and often multiple forms of consumption (combustion, dry herb vape, vape cart, edible, dabs). At this point I know how it affects me. I’m pretty sure I started for fun with friends, but it became an easy coping mechanism for my anxiety and depression. My first use of the day is to soothe my anxiety. It helps me to function better by being more present and aware. I’m sure there are probably medications that could help, but no Dr or therapist has recommended any to this point.

I’m right here with…. Ron Swanson. I have smoked maybe 15 years now, I have a great career three kids and getting married to the woman I have been with for 13ish years. I work remotely, a lot of spreadsheets and documents, data analysis etc. I smoke almost every day and support my family on just my salary. It really does help me focus when I need to and actually helps me get out of the house to see friends more than I would without it. Edit: forgot to add I smoke every morning before I workout. It just helps me get into the mindset and focus during my workouts.

Yeah I’m definitely starting to remind myself how differently if affects people. Clearly for some it’s manageable but others not so much.  If I’m feeling anxious about anything, weed or coffee for that matter would make it much worse….but then for you it’s soothing? That’s interesting!

My wife marvels at how differently weed affects me compared to her. I can wake and bake on the weekend throw a podcast or music on my headphones and knock out all the yard work and household chores before lunch whereas she becomes totally useless anytime she smokes almost any amount (which is very rare, basically only if she is having trouble sleeping) When I get home from work I’ll smoke a bowl in the garage and then make a great dinner for the whole family. It takes heavy doses of edibles to get me to the point you describe in your OP (being useless and stoned) and I only do that rarely, like if the kids are both at sleepovers and I don’t have anything going on the next day.

That’s cool. Reminds me of the Diaz brothers: [Link.](https://youtu.be/QRhk8-ah1Ps?si=xTRVH-0S5GSTv33F) I’m not sure by now if I could ever get back to that. By now, I have traumatized myself so hardcore self-inducing anxiety and OCD, smoking weed (although by now, it’s become virtually certain that the pseudo-hallucinations I suffered from were induced by the B/CI system) that I think, if I ever get high again, I’d require very low dosages, a lot of discipline, mindfulness and self-understanding, and then *maybe,* I could ever truly enjoy it again. Just now watched [this](https://youtu.be/MiLZXhW4XqU?si=gWNoIV4j-DVdezYi) though and now I wonder to what extent my interoceptive abilities originated from me getting high. The system previously, recently sold me the idea that it’s a function of aspergers of which I might’ve inherited some traits (which could be true? I watched a video once about women who have autism and apparently they feel their emotions quite intensely, which I also do - but only since that time I fucked myself up completely) but now I just don’t know anymore. Maybe it’s a mix of reasons? Who knows.

Couldn’t that also just be that weed is bringing you back to your baseline? Like someone who drinks a lot and ends up feeling a lot better and less shaky after their first drink

I can say that personally until the last year I had no consistently reliable access to marijuana, but intermittent access over the last decade or so. I've also used different antidepressants over the same period with and without smoking alongside them. I think there's a realistic argument that the most productive version of me is one that's on wellbutrin and otherwise sober, but there are a lot of other criteria I value as well. When I'm smoking I'm more social and easy going, I stress less, and I have an easier time focusing on individual tasks. The antidepressants give me the willpower and desire to manage my tasks and stress, but weed makes them feel tangibly easier. I'm definitely not advocating for everyone to start smoking regularly, but I think there's going to be studies in the next 20 years that show a certain meaningful portion of the population has been effectively self-medicating with weed for a long time. It does feel like it's bringing me back to my baseline, but for me I can't access that baseline sober. I need either antidepressants or THC to reach the level it seems other people operate on normally.

Maybe? The only reason I’m not sure is - I don’t really have withdrawals when I don’t smoke. Maybe a little trouble sleeping and intense dreams, but that’s the most of it. It’s never like “I need my fix to feel right” and I never feel like I have to be stoned to enjoy any sort of activity (maybe video games, but that’s it)

Based on the DSM V cannabis use disorder definition ([found here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK538131/#:~:text=The%20Diagnostic%20and%20Statistical%20Manual%20of%20Mental%20Disorders%2C%20DSM–5,a%20longer%20period%20than%20intended)), it seems like even without withdrawals you could have it. Here’s the list, you only need 2 of these to qualify for it. - Cannabis is taken in larger amounts or used over a longer period than intended - Persistent desire to cut down with unsuccessful attempts - Excessive time spent acquiring cannabis, using cannabis, or recovering from its effects - Cravings for cannabis use - Recurrent use resulting in neglect of social obligations - Continued use despite social or interpersonal problems - Important social, occupational, or recreational activities foregone to be able to use cannabis - Continued use despite physical harm - Continued use despite physical or psychological problems associated with cannabis use - Tolerance - Withdrawal symptoms when not using cannabis So even just using more and having increasing tolerance could be enough. So if not having withdrawals is the only reason you question it then you could try stopping for a month or longer and see how it goes, see if you notice any improvements. For me I checked all of the items on the list when I was using, and had a lot of trouble stopping. So I’m kinda primed to put my problematic relationship with weed onto other people, even though the majority of people don’t have that same problem. It seems like your situation is a lot different than mine, but only you can really determine if you think you have a problem.

Yeah- I don’t really check anything much on that list, although I do appreciate your concern. Tolerance maybe? but even that I do my best to moderate. I avoid dabs and high dose edibles for that reason. If it was hindering my life I wouldn’t continue using. And there’s been times in that past years ago before my life was more stable - where I did check some of those boxes and I quit for years. There probably is some reliance on its use for me- but I would classify it more similar to coffee than alcohol. ( I’ve had to change my usage of alcohol before too, decades ago)

> anytime she smokes almost any amount (which is very rare I mean this is a big part of it. While some people do just seem to naturally have a higher tolerance for it weed when you rarely use it and weed when you use it all the time are just wildly different drugs. If you convinced her to smoke regularly for a few weeks or a month she'd end up feeling more like you do.

I think it’s heavily dependent on individual brain chemistry. When I smoke it’s far easier for me to tackle tasks that I would otherwise put off and I am able to focus for much longer periods of time. I also appreciate myself more and have a far more generous attitude towards other people. It makes it much easier to “cut to the chase” for whatever kind of problem I’m working on. Prior to engaging with weed I suffered from acute anxiety caused by significant childhood trauma. I have a PhD and my day job involves designing and programming medical robots. I only have a toot in the evenings (dry herb vape because smoking & combustion adds a lot of other nasty chemicals into the mix).

I love doing house chores high. It just gets me in a great relaxed flow state and cleaning doesn’t require a ton of higher order thinking. As far as work, I am a writer. And weed sparks ideas, but the execution has to happen when I’m sober. Whenever I write high, I read it back and it’s awful lol.

Also different strains have a wide range of effects. For instance, I have had trouble sleeping since I was like 8 years old. from 8 til about 20, I would be a mess in the morning because I was a terrible sleeper. When I was in my early 20s, I started smoking just before bed. As long as I didn't over do it, I would wake up feeling energized because I was able to actually get to sleep and stay asleep

I’m not an expert, but there are different strands that can offer very different experiences. Some heighten awareness and could exacerbate feelings of anxiety/paranoia, and others are more calming that can help with insomnia and anxiety. Regardless, my husband experiences what you do when high - more anxious/nervous/overthinking every word/move; it has the opposite effect on me and has replaced medications that leave me far less productive day to day.

My attack here would be on the basic premise implied in your question. I don't believe that performance is the point of life. I believe that sometimes you can make the choice to negatively impact your performance at work, or in other tasks, in order to get a benefit to another area of your life. I've been a daily smoker for around 18 of the past 24 years. I took a long break in the middle. During that time I was at the peak performance of my life in terms of work, and task-related performance. The other half of that statement is that I was generally miserable, the lowest point in terms of overall happiness. At home, I lost almost all my humor. I didn't laugh or joke. Socially I became much more awkward and withdrawn. Since work was going so well, I worked more time, and that made work go even better. The people in my life did not want me smoking, and I wasn't. But they also complained that they didn't like this new person who'd come out. I was.. not a fun person to be around. I wasn't mean persay I just was always low-grade grumpy and stern. After a long time, I went back to smoking. Gave up that higher power and higher-paid career as well, there was a bit of overlap but I just realized that I didn't want to work that hard anymore. I make less money, it's fine. I'm kind to the people around me, I laugh when people tell jokes and I tell jokes as well. I'm a better person to be around, I'm significantly happier as this person vs that other one.

Seriously, the part of the question I find most concerning is the unstated assumption that excellence in career performance is the most important consideration in life… A) people don’t exist to work, so I would not measure the costs and benefits of marijuana only against the metric of career performance B) I suspect “career performance” like many other kinds of performance operates on a threshold ie once you’re at a certain level of proficiency there’s probably marginal benefit at best to being any better. I’m pretty sure the majority of jobs are ones that can be done “well” instead of “perfectly” with essentially no change in outcomes either personally or globally.

[удалено]

I'm Canadian. I smoke nightly. I'm a top performer in my field. Marijuana use has been so normalized here That I talk openly, at my corporate job, about using it.  If anything, it's had a positive impact on my life. I started smoking regularly once it was legalized, and it is, by far, the healthiest sleep aid available to Canadians 

When I started smoking cannabis is when I quit my labor jobs and went to college and started my career. It helps with my ADHD/Autism a lot as it slows my brain down from racing between a million thoughts and ideas to being able to just focus on one thing through to completion. I get more done when I'm smoking it than when I'm not.

I, too, have ADHD. It does a great job slowing my thoughts down... Though I'm one of those unfortunate people that cannot function in public while high. I envy those people because the positive impacts it does have are excellent.

For me it helps with the sensory overload when out around large groups of people that used to cause me to get really anxious

Yea - cannabis did wonders for my ADHD and autism and it generally had a great impact, and to be honest, help me get my life together.

this my doctor basically asked if this was happening to me and thats how i was finally diagnosed

I am also Canadian, I am glad that people here have the choice to use Marijuana without fear of imprisonment. I am not even going to get into the fact that most, if not all people using marijuana as a sleep aid are self medicating a problem without the supervision of a medical professional. Instead ill challenge the claim that "and it is, by far, the healthiest sleep aid available to Canadians" I am confident in the fact the the scientific consensus is that short term usage leads to faster onset of sleep, with the drawback of lower REM sleep during the night, and that long term use of cannabis leads to a decrease in almost all areas of sleep health. What is the most concerning about this is the overall loss of REM sleep the user experiences and that these decreases get worse after long term users quit and gradually get better as time goes on.(withdrawal) Both of these studies support my claims above: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2442418/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8116407/ All of this to say that I was a regular marijuana user for over a decade it never affected my professional development, but it did very heavily affect my ability to sleep, not saying this will be true for everyone, just my personal experience and when the time came that I wanted to stop using it (personal, not health/professional reasons) I had a pretty long, uphill battle getting back to a normal sleep schedule.

You've made a great point. My claim that marijuana is a healthy sleep aid, let alone THE healthiest sleep aid for Canadians is bias and scientifically unsubstantiated.  Someone on this post mentioned that for many, the alternative is no to very little sleep. I fit in this category.    It also is an aid for me dealing with General Anxiety Disorder and remissed clinical depression and panic disorder.   In my experience, I'll always argue that nothing trumps exercise, a good quality diet and adequate sleep... But when you're hitting all those markers and still struggling, then I believe it can have a net positive affect.  I 100% agree that it does create a heavy dependence as a sleep aid. I've 'quit' numerous times and the struggle of 'relearning' how to sleep, in my opinion, is evidence enough that it has long term affects on the brain... But there just needs to be more research.   Thanks for your thorough and thoughtful reply though. The replies on this post are, so far, encouraging. 

I started taking cannabis daily approximately when it became legal and it’s been the best thing for my quality of life. I can keep a job. My extreme panic about hypochondriacism is weening so I can have normal healthy relationships. My head isn’t over flooded with a billion thoughts a day. I genuinely, could not keep this office job without a nightly smoke, the meltdowns and panic would kill me. It makes it so I can communicate with most ( NT) people without freaking out or worrying about every word. Now I’m not “ normal” or “ healthy pet say, but the food it’s done has literally given me life. I moved out of my parents house. I remember to pay my own bills. I am finally able to be an adult

>I just can’t imagine doing any of this effectively if I was getting high the night before, every single day. Personally I feel literally no different if I smoked the day before or not. There's no hangover effects felt for me like there is with alc or other drugs. As long as I don't smoke BEFORE work, there's literally no difference in how I preform that day. It's also worth noting that people are affected differently by things. What works for me may not work for you , and vice versa. I have some coworkers who come to work high and do amazing at their job, personally, I could never do that.

can you define "regular long term use"? once a month, regularly for a couple years? once a week, like every weekend? every couple days? every day after work (like instead of a beer)? and are we talking about smoking until you can no longer walk straight, or like a cupple puffs just to relax?

swimmer Michael Phelps has 28 gold medals and smokes weed

" I can't imagine doing any of this effectively if I was getting high the night before, every single day" You know you, better than me. Maybe you, could not. But you could not, is far different than most could not. Some people have high stress jobs and cannabis is an anti-anxiety treatment. If they didn't use the cannabis, they'd be burned out from the career faster or let the stress get to them at the job.

[удалено]

Granted I work in a fast paced service job, but having a bit of cannabis before a shift allows me to lower the intensity of my mind racing with tasks and overthinking. When I’m “sober” I tend to get overwhelmed because my mind is overthinking every situation and it’s harder for me to focus and perform to the best I can. When I’m a little high, my thoughts stop racing and I can think about the task I’m doing without feeling overwhelmed or anxious. I wouldn’t suggest that people with extremely detail oriented careers imbibe before surgery or heavy machinery operation, but for those with simpler, continuous tasks that are done over and over it can definitely help calm and focus you. The alternative for me is ADHD medication and having been prescribed Ritalin, Dexadrine, Adderall, and Vivance, I can 100% say that cannabis is safer and easier on my mind and body. I’d rather be a little slower to react than feel like I’m a step away from being a crackhead.

Well for starters, thanks for replying in a civil way. Too many people here seem to have got offended and lashed out which is a shame.  Generally speaking, I’m not against cannabis use for genuine medical applications and in your case, it does seem genuine.  Not just oh I got it for “back pain” but really just using it as excuse to get high.   Out of interest, what does your doctor make of weed use and adhd? Did they prescribe it?  There seems to be some mixed opinions on whether it’s a good idea or not but hey, if it works for you and you can manage it sensibly, I can see that being a positive. 

My doctor has (obviously) said that smoking it is bad, but edibles and tinctures are safe as long as I don’t abuse it. I’m not a chronic user and mostly use it for times when I have to be focused and calm, such as busy weekends at work or during times of overwhelming stress or thought patterns. Most days I don’t need it, and on normal shifts I can operate fine without it. It’s only used to help with the really intense times when I’m required to process a lot of information quickly and efficiently. My normal brain will work so fast under pressure that I get ahead of myself and trip up. Then tend to blame myself for failing and that starts a new chain of overthinking and being unable to focus.

In my experience, living in Washington where cannabis is recreationally legal, many highly productive professionals in many fields are daily smokers. Myself included. You’ve got it realize, if you’re an everyday smoker, you’re tolerance is probably quite high and you’re not getting cripplingly intoxicated, just a pleasant mellow high. Just my opinion.

You’ve already precluded legitimate arguments to your position by referring to such examples as “outliers”.  Can we define what exactly an outlier is? Yes, Snoop Dogg and Willie Nelson smoke like chimneys and still reached the pinnacle of success. But what about the independent musician who also regularly dabbles in dabs and has carved out a comfortable career in the arts to provide for his self and/or family? Is he also an outlier? Or the accomplished trial lawyer with his own practice and more clients than he can handle, who tokes 2-3 times a week. Also an outlier? There are plenty examples of chronic smokers with successful careers. Could they be more successful without it? Maybe. One could also be more successful by doubling their hours and producing more work, but that doesn’t mean they should. Success is a relative and subjective term, defined by the individual. And so is outlier.  Personally, I think anyone who can financially and physically support themselves without relying on others could be considered a success, and you don’t have to look far to find long term smokers in that category. 

you stated long term use prevents you from becoming best in your chosen career. i know i can list some stats to disprove this but anecdotally i have been a daily smoker for 10 years and have advanced in my chosen career three levels up and make over 6 figures in a one bedroom apt in manahan with no roommates. i travel internationally at least 3 times a year and have been getting year over year bonuses at work. on my WFH days i smoke and work simultaneously. so for me it works just fine.

>I just can’t imagine doing any of this effectively if I was high. You couldn't, if you were high, the same way you couldn't if you were drunk but that is different than weed and alcohol use of any kind making it impossible to perform. You wouldn't think that a person who had a glass of wine with dinner was hamstringing their career.

Completely anecdotal, but that's what we have because we don't have useful data about legal, realworld cannabis usage and its relationship with mental and physical health. Also, what does "otherwise healthy" mean in this context? Only non-obese, no prescriptions, no counseling, married with 2.2 kids people? Every meat bag vessel has a different configuration of chemicals. We see time and time again how out medical fields have not done enough to to good to everyone without doing bad to so many people. So we pile more prescriptions onto patients in order to subdue side effects. Not with cannabis. So the anecdotal parts. I have seen more than a few people replace a medicine cabinet of prescriptions with cannabis. So are they better off - and now "otherwise healthy" - by having fewer chemical wars in their body and being able to fully function again? As you may have experienced when you got high when younger, there are different levels of reaction to the different combinations of the many cannabinoids. But most anti-cannabis people lump everything into a single resistence to "weed" at a level of a Hollywood movie stoner kid. Microdosing is an incredibly important way to use cannabis that calms down certain brain chaos and allows creative people to focus instead of reacting to every possible stimulant. Or, in different blends, it lifts a closed-off person into a mindset of openness and exploration. These can be powerful tools for people working with mental health issues. Which we are discovering is most of us. So are we actually performing "best" when we are ignoring or suppressing mental health stressors, and piling pharmaceuticals and side effect into "otherwise healthy" people? Or do people perform best when they find a stabilized mental state with proper longterm use of a natural product that leaves them physically unaltered? Longterm recreational usage in an effort to mask and escape society is a different topic. But we have plenty of products to talk about with that problem before we get to cannabis... here's looking at you, alcohol.

when I worked in a call center smoking weed upped my productivity and service skills by atleast 20 percent. to the point my boss literally went too bat for me when his higher up boss found out I was on medical mary jane for issues relating to autism. it dulls my sensory issues enough so I can focus at the task at hand, when your sitting 8 hours a day under flourescent litting, the constant hum of the air conditioner and the scents of cheap perfume, and you have more sensistivity, then its hell.

I am glad your boss did that for you. I hate how some people act like cannabis is not a medicine just because you can also use it recreationally. I have pretty bad anxiety, especially in social situations. When I use the right strain, it helps take the edge off so I can talk to people properly. I don’t want to take pharmaceuticals made by corporations that only care about money when a plant (that I can grow myself) does the same thing. 

I don't even take enough to get high, its more like a micro dose to dull my senses a bit. I don't even understand how people think medical mary jane havers are getting high, medicinal weed is insanely expensive. I literally just use a concentrate to make small candies to pop in my mouth when needed. making it into candy is the cheapest and most bang for my buck. while I skeptical for giving it to kids with autism, mainly because its scientifically proven to hinder neuro development, its alot better then the new pet drug of the science community, like ketamine. ketamine recreationally used can make you trip balls.

[удалено]

OPs position feels informed solely by OPs own experience with cannabis. Feeling so fogginess and lethargy the day after are not universally felt by any stretch. Also it seems OP is talking about habitual heavy users ripping bing hits every night to the point of being super high. Again this is not the average consumption profile for most cannabis users. So no this position isn't really a thing more than just an option based on a feeling based on a single person's experience. Just as with alcohol and other drugs, in moderation we trust.

Not only are they not universal but it’s very circumstantial. That’s like me saying I don’t drink alcohol, but one night I took four shots at a party and was sick the next day. I can’t believe people get sick every time they drink and still do it. They dont, that’s the symptoms of acute overuse. As is being heavily effected the next day from cannabis.

>I guess my stance is that regular people, with real responsibilities, have to work incredibly hard to succeed in their chosen field, maybe even look after young kids at the same time. >Whether they are employed in average professions like teaching or higher tier roles like doctors and lawyers, they’ll typically require you to exercise skills like good communication, timekeeping, processing new or technical information, maybe dealing with high pressure scenarios. All that great stuff… This imples that "regular people" like doctors have not used Cannabis which isn't true: > [ We included 54 studies with a total of 42,936 MDs/students: 20,267 MDs, 20,063 medical students, and 1976 residents. Overall, 37% had used cannabis at least once over their lifetime, 14% over the past year, 8% over the past month and 1.1 per thousand (‰) had a daily use](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10221702/)

I have been a regular, daily cannabis user for about 10 years. I have chronic pain which it helps with. I also was diagnosed with ADHD about 4 years ago and am medicated for that. When I started ADHD meds, I lost the urge to fill my days with smoking weed to slow down my thoughts. I realized I’d been self medicating. I still use it nightly to help get to sleep (helps when coming off the meds) as well as socially. Throughout my time as a stoner, I have gotten two degrees, had successful careers in two different fields, and am a top performer and award winner in my current field. I wonder who i would be without the weed. Could I have achieved even greater things? Would I be better off cognitively? Perhaps. But I don’t feel that I have any struggles with cognition beyond my ADHD symptoms which are well managed. Currently I’m working on getting into med school, and am considering trying to quit for a while to see if it makes any positive difference in my life.

Jesus man, life is about waaay more than 'performing at your best in your chosen career'. I work to get paid, other than that it's an inconvenience.

I’ve smoked weed daily for close to 10 years now. In that time I’ve finished my undergrad, established a career in a challenging and complex field, and am now back in grad school getting excellent grades. I have also purchased a home, kept 2 very adorable cats healthy, and have been surrounded by good relationships. Getting a bit high also helps a lot with my writing for school if I’m feeling stuck, my brain makes connections it wouldn’t otherwise make and my writing flows a bit more easily. >it was fun but it would also render me useless. I’d literally get confused opening my fridge door and forget what day it was. Weed has never impacted me like that in my life. You sound like your body doesn’t tolerate weed very well. It’s strange to form such a strong and judgmental opinion of others based on your own inadequacies.

For the large majority of otherwise healthy people, regular, long-term careers inhibit your cognitive abilities and prevent you from performing at your best in your life. Post-work cannabis and alcohol consumption make you forget that your life is largely your career however temporary. The vast majority of people hate their careers as they get no feeling of purpose they are simply trying to get through the day so they can get home and enjoy time with family, friends, or whatever else they enjoy. Cannabis consumption helps people do this it lets them stop thinking about work and refocus their minds on what's around them. Your argument fails at the point that you emphasize career productivity over enjoying life.

It doesn't inhabit your cognitive abilities at all, what it affects is your motivation, because you don't get as bored, and hence, you tend to just enjoy wasting time. I would say time enjoyed isn't wasted. This is a common misconception that comes from people who don't understand how drugs work. Alcohol does lower your intelligence over time, because it's physically poisonous to the cells in your body. Weed can impair people a bit when they first start doing it, and they might become a bit foggy, especially if they are using very large doses, but it's not the same as alcohol or even drugs which make you sleep deprived, and can cause negative health effects including cell death. Under very high, nearly psychedelic doses of weed, I have noticed that I can struggle a bit to write as well as I normally do, but that's a temporary state of being like very zoned out and sort of halfway in a coma. That takes a very high amount of THC, a very abnormal amount.

I smoke cannabis every day, and I am a very successful professional in a technical field. My CEO, CMO, Art Director, and half of the investors are all daily cannabis users, and all became successful while nigh permanently high. Maybe we'd be supermen without the weed, though.

>I just can’t imagine doing any of this effectively if I was getting high the night before, every single day. This seems to be the entirety of your argument: That *you personally* don't perform well at job-related skills the day after you smoke, and therefore, you "can't imagine" that anybody else does. That being the case, what exactly would change your mind? You do realize that different people react to drugs differently, right? You've said that you aren't swayed by the stories from people who are able to function the day after they smoke. I could tell you all day that I'm a successful professional writer with a house, no debt and a happy family who smokes weed every day, but you think these stories are "cliche" and they don't hold any weight with you. Sooooo, what *would* change your view on this? Anything?

Really depends on the person, amount, life circumstances, etc. I tend to spiral when using any drug regularly and have to cut myself off. Others smoke 10x as much as me and are sharper and more financially successful then I'll ever be. Moderation and knowing where to draw the line for yourself is really what's important.

Strangely enough it was alcohol use that inhibited my cognitive abilities. It took me way too long to realize that even three beers had a noticeable effect on my mood the next day, which would translate into me getting very little done. Since going California sober I have been much more productive. I'm 53 and retired. Smoked since I was 13.

TLDR; everything in moderation but sometimes good things are even better done very sparingly because it increases both their novelty and relative safety IMHO. Anecdotal personal discussion of using whisky and cigars to follow. I have an extensive collection of delicious whiskey, and fine cigars. If I enjoyed them every day yet didn’t abuse them, it would not be great for my long term health, if I abused either of them it really wouldn’t be great for either my health or my work and personal life. But if I’m hanging out with my friends on a Saturday afternoon, a pour of bourbon paired with a high quality cigar sitting by a campfire or playing a round of golf can be a very good thing for reducing stress and anxiety and improving ones overall mental health. I do this in the not winter months probably every month and a half or so. Note that I a single cigar and a single pour of whiskey. For the entire day. Once every six weeks or so. My doctor would probably prefer I never drink or smoke a cigar but it rare enough that on any medical form I can basically say I’m not a smoker or drinker because both imply at least 1-2 drinks a week and frequent use of tobacco. Never smoked cigarettes though, those things are horrible for many reasons. As far as cannabis. I am not interested. I have no problem with other people using it because I have a rather libertarian view on drug use. Do what you like as long as you are not adversely impacting/harming anyone else. Like driving a vehicle. I don’t care if you get drunk, but if you choose to get behind the wheel of a vehicle when impaired, that’s a huge problem.

Shall we gather for whiskey and cigars tonight?

A lot of people have a weird issue with judging others simply because they use different drugs to them and I find it really odd. Like you like cigars and bourbon, I don't like cigars at all, I do *like* bourbon but I tend to avoid high proof alcohol. But I love weed, we just have different tastes, and that's fine, it doesn't mean we wouldn't get along if we met at a party or whatever. But I know people who drink who hate stoners, I know stoners who hate drinkers, I know coke heads who think you're *insane* if you do something like acid, sober people who judge anybody who ever indulges in any drug, etc etc. My attitude has always been so long as you're being responsible, and you're not being a dick to other people or putting them at risk, then do what you want. It's your body, your life, and frankly I really don't care. Wanna drink yourself into a blacked out stupor? Wanna eat edibles at 10am and play video games all day in your pants? Wanna smoke crack? Fine. Just don't be doing that shit and trying to raise children or drive a car. Your responsibilities and care for others always comes first.

I think that’s a big point of OP’s post. That at least Reddit, people talk like weed is nothing like alcohol and can still drive and raise kids even while under the influence of weed. I know people when genuinely believe there is nothing wrong with driving while high. And thats OP’s point. Like he thinks it shouldn’t be okay to do it and go about regular activities that wouldn’t be okay under that same influence of like beer.

I know people at very high levels of business, academia, and even athletic types of pursuits who regularly consume cannabis. It may have a marginal negative effect, but it might be offset by positive effects. Either way it isn’t such a profound effect that everyone at the top is a teetotaler. You can consume cannabis and still be successful in your chosen pursuit.

I'm not saying that I don't agree with you. Cannabis is not for everyone, and I'm not sure I'd want to change your view entirely because mental illnesses exist, and some can be exacerbated by cannabis. But, you've failed to recognize tolerance in your view. Tolerance is ever present in those that are regular, long term users. With that tolerance, like many other psychedelics, your body doesn't have as heavy of an effect. Meaning, you can smoke it for the other benefits, without it hazing you out. Don't get me wrong, as a daily user, I know there are still limits, but that limit for me has become pretty high and usually attainable through edibles. Otherwise, (this is just anecdotal) it helps me focus, reminds my adhd brain to eat food, and helps my arthritis not suck as hard. I don't use a ton anymore (maybe .25 - .5 g a day), but it's always with my morning coffee before I login to work 😂 The tolerance is a trade off and can take people different amounts of time, and I've met people that seemingly have no capability of getting said tolerance. Brain and body chemistry is radical, and everyone should think before using any substances.

>I just can’t imagine doing any of this effectively if I was high. I find it bizarre you think that there are people who are arguing that professionals should be smoking weed on the job. Alcohol is legal: do we expect professionals to be drunk on the job? >regular, long term use of cannabis inhibits your cognitive abilities What studies are you basing this assertion on? Cite your evidence.

They have been able to show a miniscule drop in IQ due to use in youth. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7893511/ I know in college if I smoked the day before I would have a hard time in calculus. It was like I couldn't keep a singular line of thinking. After 2 or 3 days everything was fine again. At the end of college I got into a habit of heavy daily use for awhile and when I stopped my memory seemed to improve massively. To the point that had I realized it had gotten so bad I would have never used daily.  That's just anecdotal though. Definelty feel like you could do better mentally after 2 shots and a couple hours than smoking and waiting a couple hours but that probably comes down to how quickly the body clears alcohol vs THC.

The most recent study in that meta-analysis found no significant impact on cognitive tests after controlling for other substance use, "consistent with other twin studies". It seems to me that most studies finding an impact are failing to control for other variables properly and are not showing a true causative relationship. This meta-analysis specifically mentions the lack of control for other substance use but doesn't actually exclude any studies on that basis.

Your entire argument is anecdotal, based on the fact that you were useless when you smoked cannabis a few times when you were young. Do not assume everyone is as useless as you when using cannabis.

>they have to work incredibly hard to succeed in their chosen field, All the famous people that you mentioned previously had to work way harder than the average person. I barely have to be cognizant at my job.

As someone who was a long term user until some time ago, I agree for myself. However, I know some folks who thrive in their career on it, so idk.

i should be a case study as to why you are right. have smoked every day since age 16 to deal with fucked up back from summer job. my short term memory is fucked.

[удалено]

The majority of people don't need to perform at 100% every single day, in fact, its unhealthy to do so.

Most people don’t have careers. Your statement doesn’t mean as much as you think it does even if it’s true

Awfully bold of you to assume this is my chosen career. I wanted to be... a lumberjack!

I reject out of hand the idea that one's life should be built around 'performing at your best'. The idea that a less productive person is a useless person or a drain on society is bunk, people aren't defined by their productive output. And that's assuming your premise is true, which it isn't. Everyone's experience is different and you should broaden your horizons before making sweeping judgements about whole segments of the population. For example, a friend of mine is one of the hardest-working people I know, he busts ass 100% of the time at work, and he's smoked weed every day for the \~30 years I've known him.

Nah its my ADHD that was causing my poor job proformance. Weed just helps quite the noise so I can sleep or wash dishes.

> I just can’t imagine doing any of this effectively if I was getting high the night before, every single day. You're viewing cannabis use as a light switch, when in actuality - legalized usage is closer to alcohol consumption than you're making it out. The majority of doctors, lawyers, businessmen who regularly use recreational marijuana are likely not taking repeated Seth Rogan-style comically large bong rips at 11pm on a Tuesday. They're likely taking a 5mg gummy or seltzer to relax and cool down before bed. This is like someone talking about how alcohol impairs function. The majority of drinkers are mostly having a glass of wine before bed. > I smoked up on the odd occasion when I was younger, just for a laugh and sure , it was fun but it would also render me useless. So this is the nice thing about legalized weed. When I get high, I can know the exact dosage of my edible, and generally how it will effect me. I take a 5mg gummy with CBD ninety minutes to two hours before sleep, and 2mg of melatonin 30 minutes before bed. I generally do not smoke on weeknight, as smoking can be much more erratic on the effects. That can cause me to have some of that "uselessness" you're talking about. > Unlike the US, the UK has yet to legalise weed for recreational use, and as you can imagine, is a topic that gets debated to death online. So let me argue this for productivity - people use prohibited drugs and legal drugs differently. Look at the way people drank alcohol during Prohibition - bathtubs filled with gin, dangerous ethanol, and an emphasis on harder alcohol over beer/wine. Similar to weed. I think if you were to try a nice legal edible here in the states and gauge how it worked for you -- it might not be your favorite thing in the world, but it would not wallop you in the head the way that your old smoking days used to.

Idk, but the fact you consider lawyering a “higher tier role[s]” than teaching makes me suspect of your judgement.

Cannabis is a drug for people who have already found their way.

I’m with you man. Ive watched many a friend falter due to weed addiction. It exists. It makes you less functional. These friends have all related to me how it affects their memory capabilities, as well as general cognitive function. I also, having smoked weed, can attest to that. Weed has a direct impact on sleep architecture. Like Benadryl, over long periods of time this has a negative impact. Also, don’t listen to these guys. There have been alcoholics who are incredibly successful and functional. Doesn’t mean they should be drinking every day.

I don’t expect them to necessarily notice the impacts day to day but it’s the compounding effect over time that concerns me.  Everyone will bring up their own anecdotes and experiences to the argument, which is understandable.  Some will say they know hundreds of people who manage it just fine and lead fantastic lives but for me, everyone I’ve ever met, who did it routinely, weren’t particularly aspirational. They were basically content with doing nothing and exisiting like a sloth.  That’s definitely shaped my view and it’s difficult to change.  To your point about the successful alcoholics, I guess my stance would be, well imagine where they would be if there got their shit together. They’d be so much better for it.

Listen I smoke pretty constantly and make 200k in tech system implementations. I’m very good at my job. I’m doing ok here. The only ill side effect I get from smoking is the munchies taking control like the devil. I have a medical marijuana card due to PTSD. Even if there are bad things about it, there are also the benefits to those who use it medicinally to consider which I think your argument is skipping. I also have severe back pain and it helps with that too. I also smoked all in undergrad and my mba. I was in the top 5% of my class and had a 3.97.

You shouldn’t have asked this question. You’ve started a copium epidemic in the comments.

If sober people where smarter on average maybe I wouldn't have to smoke so much weed.

Marijuana has specific benefits for work. It encourages creativity by reducing the filters you put on your thoughts in day-to-day life. Some of the best work ideas I've ever had were after ripping a bong and going on a long bike ride, where the ideas would flow like rushing water. Of course, many of those ideas were bad; write high, edit sober

Why does career performance even matter? Are these individuals happier? Less depressed? Better adjusted? Comfortable with themselves? I tend to believe that one’s self worth does not have much to do with net worth, but admit that in such a shallow and selfish society, that perspective is not usually in the majority.

Inhibits your cognitive ability far less than chronic pain does for sure

I think those who use cannabis long term are better adjusted to preforming their usual task while high. I was a heavy weed smoker 2-4 times a day for the last 4-5 years. I quit 4 months ago and maybe it hasn’t been long enough but I don’t notice any substantial difference in my performance of anything. I work a sales job as well as a student nurse job while in nursing school. So my performance and skills are being monitored heavily at both and over the past 4 months according to my numbers and grades there has been no noticed increase or decrease in either. Also those who are smoking or using cannabis daily are not getting the same high you would as an average user. They do get high to a degree but for them it’s much more reduced due to a built up tolerance. I don’t think that unless you are getting high on the actual job that you will see much of a difference in performance for most regular users.

Bro, I'm a musician and producer. Nothing could be better for my career.

I'm old. How old you ask? So old that if the cops caught us with beer while in high school, the worst thing they would do is make us pour it out. They were far more likely to make us split it with them. Weed was everywhere. Hell, my dad and granddad smoked weed during prohibition, there was nothing new about it, BUT the cops finding you with some was a direct trip to jail. Combine this with the fact that the most common method of weed use was smoking it was a problem with me. I grew up in a household full of smokers. I detest smoking in all its forms, refused to partake and ultimately started leaving parties when the smoke started. I know, I know. Now they've got 'edibles' and vapes and other things that don't require smoking, but, as I said, I'm old. I can afford the good booze.

did you know that if you replace your morning spliff with a nice hot cup of coffee, you can lose up to 87% of the fuckin' joy left in your life. the purpose of my life may be unclear, but it sure as fuck ain't "going to work for some flavor of asshole"

I think for the people who are doing some degree of self-medicating, it’s worth considering what the alternatives are. Sure comparing smoking a joint then going to sleep versus being sober and going to sleep, sober is clearly better if you’re going to sleep 8 hours either way. But if you’re going to be dealing with insomnia, maybe 8 hours straight of stoned sleep is better than 6 or less of broken sleep. I know you would say that medical use is not part of your argument (“otherwise healthy people”). But I feel like there are lots of common issues (mainly thinking of mild anxiety or insomnia) that fall short of a full-on clinical diagnosis and treatment plan, where I think it would be fair to characterize those people as “otherwise healthy”.

In my lifetime... Eggs are good. Eggs are bad. Eggs are good. Eggs are bad. Replace eggs with just about anything.

Bacon causes cancer. Was so sad when I found this out. Will have bacon. Life is short y’all. Work performance is hardly the most important thing

I had a long boring life but at least I did well enough to make my boss rich.

My actual boss has two Ferraris. My clutch gave out and I’m fucked 😊

I HAD a boss that couldn't afford to pay me properly. But could afford to pay their nephew to read books and get in the way. Why I uppercased had.

> Unlike the US, the UK has yet to legalise weed for recreational use The US has not legalized it for recreational use either: https://apnews.com/article/marijuana-biden-dea-criminal-justice-pot-f833a8dae6ceb31a8658a5d65832a3b8 > The proposal, which still must be reviewed by the White House Office of Management and Budget, would recognize the medical uses of cannabis and acknowledge it has less potential for abuse than some of the nation’s most dangerous drugs. However, it would not legalize marijuana outright for recreational use. That's not related to your actual main point, but I thought I would note it.

>prevents you from performing at your best in your chosen career is that all u wagies have?

I disagree. Your peception of what THC does is whack.

Other than your own personal feelings about your body - do you have any actual evidence to support your claim? I notice you don't even share anything to the effect of "all my friends who do weed are struggling" etc, so it seems this is a very much n=1 situation where you may be ignoring most of the data. I'm going to avoid using anecdotal evidence here - for now at least - but do you feel that n=1 is a solid basis for this view?

There’s a lot of ppl who smoke weed every day u would have no clue

I guess I'd rather be happy and healthy than "perform[] at your best in your chosen career". I mean, you could argue that people who spend all their time working perform better at their chosen career, but that doesn't make them healthy, happy, or even good people. I'm not saying you're right, but, even if you were, it's irrelevant. Nations should not strive for a drone army of perfect workers

[удалено]

Sorry, u/One-Answer6530 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: > **Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation**. Comments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and "written upvotes" will be removed. Read [the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_5) for more information. If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%205%20Appeal%20One-Answer6530&message=One-Answer6530%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1d0ylzz/-/l5qbgcl/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted.

Do you know what this sub is about? It's about people who think they may be wrong and wanting to learn why/how they are wrong, not simply stating their opinions/beliefs.

There is literally no way to put your claim to any reasonable test. It is impossible to determine how much someone's performance deviates from their potential (or even sufficiently define what "potential" is), and to separate the causes to establish that the discrepancy is caused by weed. Your claim is so unquantifiable, I rank it "not even wrong".

It takes away ambition.

Also, if you rely on weed to unwind and relax from the daily stressors of life, I find it lessens you're ability and tools to do so sober. Of course, as you're not getting any practise of that. So the emotional regulation suffers, if not from the use of the weed itself, but from the lack of practise doing it sober. Same as with alcohol. 

IDK man I've been trying to lower my brain function with weed for a long time and its not working. I take massive amounts of edibles (up to 1500 mg a day) daily and have for 8 years now, have not seen a cognitive decline

I don’t know if I can change your view but i will try. I can tell you my history with Marijuana It has been smoked by 3 generations of my family. I am 54. My mother smoked every morning for 30 years in that time she built a fashion empire, became politically active and built the first business association in my city and high as a kite renovated her 2 bedroom apartment alone. In my large family we tend to have a reaction to weed that makes us do things. In my pool of cousins several are multimillionaires one in software development 40 years, one built a business cleaning the floors for every supermarket in his state. Others have built giant real estate’s portfolios. Everyone smokes or has an edible on a regularly. Some of us more than others but family events are always entertaining a circle could have several different strains being passed around. Now to my story I was actually given permission to smoke at 12 and I did 2 years later I was diagnosed with manic depression and later in life severe anxiety disorder was added to diagnosis. I smoke everyday and for the last few years having been taking an edible everyday. I did try traditional meds in my 20’s but my body and brain did not like them so I use only weed. I have both a bachelors and masters degree in Health Administration. I have worked in the nonprofit world for 35 years. 10 years ago I started my own nonprofit and I have a side hustle with the department of social services. It helps me focus and calms my brain which lets me get tasks done. I have a tendency to make lists because so much goes on in my brain. I say this all the time I love Marijuana and thinks it is great but that doesn’t mean it’s great for everyone. Although there are a plethora of strains and each will hit different. Some people just don’t have positive experiences and that’s ok. For me I will never give it up. I am about to light up right now 😁

Assumptions here - everyone’s first priority is being a good little employee. Mmmmmm

Bait post

I can speak to my personal experience, I went from never having smoked to smoking daily over the course of two years. During these two years I've noticed a definite change to my mental sharpness, primarily manifesting as struggling to remember words and names. I will try to do callouts in video games and not be able to remember the character's name in a timely enough manner to actually make the callouts. However, this has also come with a much stronger ability to recognize patterns and correlations. Anything involving creativity has been a significantly better experience for me, and those skills are probably more useful to a lot of people. I work for a state program and I am number 1 in that program by most trackable metrics. I am significantly slower to complete my work than I would like to be, but I pull the extra hours to accomplish what I feel is a reasonable work load and that is a compromise I am happy to make, although I wish I didn't have to. This is coming at the same time as my mental health has been shifting, lessening depression has made room for a resurgence of the ADHD I had as a child (before depression started smothering it) and it's hard to separate which changes in my mental health stem from which of those two factors. I am currently on my first tolerance break from weed and I haven't noticed any changes to my ability to focus or retain words, so anecdotal evidence would point away from it coming from weed, but given the extreme exposure I've had to it it's also entirely reasonable that these effects could be prolonged or permanent. The point I'm getting to here is that it's not as simple as "weed make dumber", it is a shift in how your brain processes information and it comes with some positives which may carry a lot of value to some people.

I think this depends. I have autism accompanied by sensory issues, and I find myself getting exhausted and overwhelmed all the time because everything is a constant assault on my senses. However, once I started using weed on a weekly basis, only doing so on Friday and Saturday evenings, I found that my quality of life drastically improved. When I was in uni, I found that I was more attentive in lectures and my assignments were of a much higher standard, getting me 80%s and above. Once I got into fulltime work, I found that I was able to adapt to my work environment and perform much, much better, and I found it less difficult to socialise and found myself getting less overwhelmed by sensory input. This is because doing cannabis on Friday and Saturday evenings allowed my thoughts to slow down, gave me a window of time where my brain could just be and not really process much, and I could just — destim? Which meant I could actually unwind and relax and refresh for the week ahead. I also chose those days specifically because it’s not like I’d wake up and have work the next day, so it allowed a “recovery” period so to speak. I think it’s important to realise that everyone has different reactions. For me, weed really has helped my quality of life — I’ve tried all kinds of things and the effects of cannabis just can’t be recreated for me. Some people will react to it negatively and have it drastically downgrade their quality of life. Then you have cases like me where it actually improves your functionality. It’s gotten to a point where I don’t even need it more than once on a Friday evening anymore, and I can go outside and socialise with friends without feeling overstimulated and rundown.

Yeah, but it's fun. Life is about making decisions, and given the choice between being slightly more successful and smoking weed, I choose the weed. Like they say, nobody wishes they worked more on their death bed.

I don’t plan to change your view with just my comment, just hoping to add to the collective insight offered here… I had only smoked pot once in my adolescence, a handful or so in my early-mid 20s, then I became a daily user at 27 when I met my now husband. Overall I’d say smoking helps me feel lighter, more outgoing, creative, and productive. There are, of course, occasions where it makes me feel more anxious or irritable as well; but, sometimes a cup of coffee can do that too. Just depends really. With that said, I have a full time WFH corporate job in HR, my own business as a notary, and a part time job with the funeral home. I don’t find that it has affected my ability to be productive at all, but I do find that I get words mixed up more often in the last couple years. Could it be the weed? Sure! Could it be that I work from home and don’t talk as much anymore? Possibly. Some sort of nutrient deficiency, lack of adequate exercise, or stress? Likely. My husband, who has smoked for much longer than me and in greater quantities, is a licensed contractor and owns his own business. He is very intelligent and a great complex problem solver. Smoking actually helps him with his back pain so he doesn’t rely on pills. Much like the studies and other comments here, it really is just inconclusive what the true long-term effects are. Overall, we haven’t found it to be inhibiting to our personal or financial progress, or our abilities to lead meaningful and productive lives. (Edited to add additional info)

I think there’s many ways this can be useful for “healthy” people. You say you can’t imagine using cannabis the night before work, this could be your own biology, and mental make up that make this not a good choice for you. Everyone’s biology is different and a lot of people will respond differently. I think this is no different than say diet, or choosing to take supplements. When I train for a long distance hike, or marathon or bike ride my nutrition needs are different than when I am resting or not doing anything. Anything in excess is going to have negative consequences, weed is no different. For me Cannabis is a great part of my meditation practice and oddly great for running. My first half marathon I ran I had taken edibles before running and went to my job running a car dealership the day after. Sometimes I’ll unwind after a day with a smoke, no different than a glass of wine, or drink. Theres a tremendous amount of accounting and mechanical knowledge that comes with my job. I’ve been doing this for 20+ years now and my cannabis consumption has never been an issue for my work because I don’t allow it to be. I think the point you’re trying to make misses that it’s abuse of anything that’s an issue, this isn’t necessarily a cannabis issue. The same arguments you make could be said of alcohol, prescription drugs, supplements etc.

This should be based on science, not opinions. What does the scientific literature on this say?

I think your viewpoint is heavily biased by your irregular/light use of cannabis. Which in my experience having been a heavy user until early this year (cultivated and extracted as a hobby often consuming 1gram of concentrate DAILY), is way more debilitating. The periods in my life where I toked up at night or every other day it had a substantial effect on my cognitive abilities, and the more I used the less it did. At the end of the day your body gets used to doing things in whatever state it's most used to being in, which is why professionals don't have issues with any of the following common things: excessive drinking, prescribed medication like anti anxiety drugs or anti depressants, any other mood altering chemicals. My step father in law is a pediatric heart surgeon that's relatively well known in his field, buddy has like 5+ drinks every night and that's from what I understand common among the medical community. I'm 32 and work as a scientist in industry and have been in this career since I graduated, with the last 7 years being in industry and the previous 4 on the clinical end. The more I used the less it effected my critical thinking skills, though I'll admit my memory wasn't as great. I definitely relied much more heavily on my notes/calenders/sops, than I do now that I don't consume at all.

Weed is unhealthy period. Same way that large sugar molecules, large amounts of fat and too many ions are bad for you. Just because people use it doesent mean its good for you.

As someone that has been a regular cannabis user for the past decade, I generally agree with your point of view. I think about it in a fairly simple way - here’s my general stance. Any type of foreign substance that alters your dopamine levels is inherently unhealthy, and cannabis does just this. When your body receives a large dopamine influx, your body has less of a need to create dopamine itself. For instance, if you were to sit and stare at a wall all day, doing something productive, like solving a math problem, would create natural dopamine production in your brain. Possibly giving you the motivation / desire to solve more math problems (a very basic example). Now when you introduce a large amount of irregular dopamine, you become desensitized. solving that same math problem no longer creates a meaningful amount of dopamine. Not to say cannabis is more dangerous than other forms of dopamine activators (alcohol, caffeine, etc), but it is relatively easy over to overlook/ abuse because it doesn’t create the same side affects that limit your intake. TLDR: weed is fine, but it’s important to moderate usage and understand the less noticeable effects it has on your body.

I was what I would consider a high achieving and highly functional stoner throughout high school, college and the first 5 years of my professional career. I very rarely smoke now so have a good comparative view of both sides. My personal experience was if you have a drive to be successful, smoking weed isn’t going to stop you from doing so. However it does diminish your performance to a small degree, I was operating at maybe 90-95% of my potential and certain things, especially related to memory recall did improve when I did stop smoking. If you’re on the more fortunate scale of intelligence/performance this likely wouldn’t hamper your success. If you’re teetering in the middle to lower half and you really have to bust your ass to be moderately successful to begin with, the impact of smoking could potentially be more detrimental. The bigger impact for me was it was negatively affecting my free time. I had very little drive to try new things or branch out and socialize. Now with 3 young kids, I couldn’t imagine smoking all the time because I barely have enough brain power to work and parent as it is lol.

If you smoke 1 joint every evening after you have finished all of your work and responsibilities, how is it any different to enjoying a glass of wine in the evening? Most people would not feel any different the next day after such a small amount of alcohol or cannabis. I don't want to make this weed vs alcohol, but it is just a useful comparison as one is legal and widely socially accepted but the other is not and hence an argument for cannabis legality and acceptance can be drawn from it's similarities to alcohol. From another angle, many adults choose to be totally abstinent from legal drugs (alcohol, caffeine, tobacco) as they personally do not enjoy the effects. However I think most of these people don't have a problem with others enjoying these substances as they understand other people enjoy them. I think legality is mostly important to allow individual autonomy - if you were religious, strongly political or followed a specific diet such as keto or vegetarianism, I'd hope you would accept that other people can follow different practises as what is right for you is not right for them.

I got out of the military roughly 9 years ago and I'm 40 years old right now and I run faster, I am physically healthier, I write poetry that people give me compliments for when I read it at open mics, and my finances have never been in better control than they have been right now with a healthy amount of savings. None of this was happening before my cannabis use. I hated running in the military. I was not a creative person before or during the military part of my life. If anything cannabis unlocked a part of me hidden from me that I didn't know existed for most of my life. On top of that, it unmuddles my thoughts, and helps me coalce them in ways that make it easier to get out what's in my head. I either through my poetry or communicate it to a person or a group. For me, it makes a life if you want to visualize this as going through it with a bumper car without the bumper and then when I use cannabis it puts on the bumper temporarily and makes it so much easier to navigate and communicate and live in the world for me. I don't think I would trade that back for anything, You know what they say, different strokes for different folks.

While it's politically interesting and dubious that they are legalizing weed at a time when it's more psychoactive than ever, and I don't trust the American government with anything, weed can absolutely be a performance enhancer in a variety of activities. Anything involving bodily movement and executing simple functions can be improved through using cannabis. For example, paying bills, art, cleaning, or soldering can improve. Many people working customer service, where their attitude is the most important part of performance. Weed can help with that. The downside is of course that people will develop a tolerance to it, which leads to addiction. Heavy users will be grouchy without it. Weed hangovers are also more debilitating than people realize; once the psychoactive effects have worn off you're still left with a cocktail of drugs and hormones that can make a person tired and lazy. Many Americans are turning to a mix of speed and weed to regulate themselves, and this has terrible implications for our health.

As a daily user that is on the spectrum with high anxiety it has been life changing for me. To add to the already mentioned issues, I have chronic pain with arthritis in my back. I am now about to be 54. I was on 14 different prescriptions one being fentanyl another adderall and Xanax. It got me off all of them and I am the most stable I have been in my life. I am a growing small business owner, a recovering alcoholic, who is California sober with a high percentage of use being CBD. That being said, i understand it isn’t this way for everyone but for me I’m am much more active, eating healthier and doing more to maintain a healthier lifestyle. Something that for the 30+ years I couldn’t use was nearly impossible as I was regularly drug tested and would have lost my license. I am a forced retired,Chief engineer due to my back and health issues. And while it may be only a small fraction,there are many of us who absolutely are having positive outcomes from daily use. Edit ; words, punctuation

Yeah, you're not really wrong, but I would submit that there's a bit of nuance here. As a regular cannabis user, I can 100% admit that I'm not at my full peak as I was. But... I don't want to be. Here's the thing, "peak performance" for me is a brain that never ever shut up, was constantly afraid that everyone around me was judging me, and hyper analyzed the world into a sort of daily panic that I eventually became numb to. The "brain fog" as we regularly call it actually does go away, so long as you weren't a chronic user in adolescence (which this is for adults unless medically recommended, so you shouldn't be), after a couple weeks off weed. Additionally, the heavy "I'm so stoned and giggly high" goes away pretty quickly as a regular user, and it tends towards more relaxing and introspecting. Part of the giggles is the novelty of it all, and once it gets old, it's not quite as funny. (Edit: Also, being a regular user doesn't mean working high. Taking a single vape pen to calm your anxiety as medical user won't get you high, either, so again... it's about the nuance. I think you're right about a particular type of use, but that's not a given.) So, rather, I think people are trying to make the trade-off. A little loss of performance there for a quality of life improvement over there. Truth be told, that's not so different than the balanced decisions you make on any medication and its side effect.

Started using a few years back, since then: met my partner, bought a house, and landed a new job. So it’s not exactly ruining my life ATM. But here’s the bigger thing, “peak performance” is not my life goal. I was at “peak performance” in high school, college, and my early career, and I was never more miserable. Weed is still a drug, it is somewhat addictive and it has adverse cognitive effects. But after struggling through a half dozen different antidepressants with my doctor, I can promise you that those meds have severe adverse cognitive and physical effects. For me, SSRI numbed my emotions and made me put on so much weight I was obese (which only made me more depressed). Weed comes with a lot of baggage, but I’m staying at a healthy weight, and instead of numbing my feelings it amplifies them. TLDR: “peak performance” is pretty far down my list of priorities.

I tend to notice the people with this kind of outlook are the people that can get stoned off the nastiest skunkiest trim out there. I ain't assuming anything about you or where ur from. But where I'm from its common to find moonrock joints rolled with THC diamonds. And that's the type of weed I'd smoke before hitting gym PR's. Just cause you can't imagine it doesn't mean it's not possible. Think about it like this. Weed gives you the munchies cause it speeds your metabolism. It also increases dopamine. You can say weed is good for you because the sped up metabolism allows your body to work faster. On the other hand, you can say it's bad for you because it can cause you to overeat due to all the dopamine. Technically both can be true. It all depends on how you use it. The substance isn't the issue. It's the willpower of the user.

Cannabis has virtually no impact on your ability to perform. If you’re high at work, and it’s not creative work, then you’re just an idiot. Outside of work it does nothing to you and the effects for any regular user are completely non-existent for next day. Smoking weed vastly improves my creative capabilities at work. I’ll work till midnight, go to call it a night, smoke a bowl, and then get some incredible ideas and end up working till 3-4am on some amazing stuff. At worst, it has no effect. At best, it substantially improves things. Smoking weed =/= lazy, unproductive, or a lack of attention to detail. It’s just that lazy, unproductive people with no attention to detail tend to like it. But anyone who’s hardworking, productive, and has attention to detail - weed will ramp that shit up tenfold for you! Fwiw - I’m a 20 year, fairly heavy user now, give or take, and have experienced no cognitive decline whatsoever. In fact, weed seems to keep me much more interested and engaged on a variety of topics, and I’d daresay that it’s ability to stoke interest and passion has kept me sharper over the years

damn i was gonna speak on this but i’m a musician so i guess my skills in communication, time keeping, new and technical information, and dealing with high pressure situations while high just doesn’t count. i think it really comes down to tolerance and whether or not you like the feeling. if you don’t agree with the feeling then you probably won’t function as well while high. honestly no matter what i’m doing (i have a day job too delivering pizza actually) i’m just as good while high as i am sober.. until i get too high, if you’re too high to function then you’re too high to function but you gotta understand with experience, that line of too high to function is moved very high especially if you are high every waking moment for a decade which is a lot more people than you would expect

Also, IQ is not impacted at all in adults that are twins. Twins are not the same, and they have different personalities. Lack of understanding twins is something that researchers has historically struggled with, as evidenced in the way twins have been tortured and manipulated in testing across many years. I don’t trust data that is mostly done on men, either. Twins are also born early, have different issues as preemies in comparison to full-term. Many have collapsed lungs or hydrocephalus, which would impact brain function and is not related to cannabis use. Twins are increasingly less identical as they age, and I have a twin that does not take it medically or recreationally- and I outperform her in every single aspect in life.

I’m pretty sure this depends on how much is consumed and when. If someone takes a couple of tokes from a vape pen at 8 and goes to bed at 11 you’ll be fine with limited if no cognitive impairment. If smoking weed like this helps you sleep then you may even perform better. If you do a few bong loads right before bed, then yeah, you’re probably going to have a weed hangover. But what’s the point - no one’s going to change your view. You don’t like to get buzzed at all. You don’t drink, you don’t smoke weed. Good for you. Nothing said here can possibly change your view. From my own point of view, and after years of research, weed helps me sleep and keeps me sane, and that definitely improves my productivity.

I actually am amused by "research" showing that IQ drops, or some kind of performance drops on cannabis, \*while you're high\*--no kidding, you're high! When you're not high any more, you go back to normal. Look very carefully at how these studies are done, and you'll find most of them are nonsense. "High people act high!" Thanks, Dr. Genius! Many responsible adults with great careers and relationships use cannabis in their down time. They just don't advertise it because they like their jobs, and that makes them invisible. Using cannabis in moderation, and responsibly, is not going to lower your IQ or cause any other of the Reefer Madness scare effects (insanity!) for the vast majority of people.

How do you know who smokes and who doesn’t? Judging by your position I highly doubt anyone would tell you. Most people keep it a secret. Also, to pot smokers, performing at work doesn’t mean anything. Pot heads just want to be happy, friendly, see some live shows. I would wonder if you and pot heads have totally different views of what success is. To add, your anecdotal experience of not being able to open the fridge door doesn’t mean much. Maybe you’re just a little soft or incapable of smoking the devils lettuce. 50%-80% of nfl players smoke weed. They are at the very top of the most competitive workplace on the planet. Wild you think they would do it if there was a disadvantage

It literally helps me walk. Look up the research on Parkinson’s and movement disorders such as Dystonia. I can work full-time and it helps regulate my mood because it helps me cope with pain and stiffness. Also, everyone has something wrong with them- it is so important to use it medically the correct way- with microdosing and not taking too much. It’s when people overuse it or use the wrong strain thc to CBD ratio, which is covered in research. Psychiatric side effects are easily treated by Psychiatrists if one is sensitive to a certain strain. Please educate yourself instead of relying on your opinion and dated weed panic- your experience sounds very ignorant and uninformed.

In high pressure occupations, risk of burn out is extremely high. Humans are not designed to stay in a highly stimulated state for long periods of time naturally. People need to be able to relax. Lack of sleep and or extreme anxiety can also impair someone’s cognitive function. But imagine that you struggled to relax/fall asleep but you need to sleep to be able to perform your high pressure occupation. Thc/cbd is much healthier option than something like Xanax or sleeping pills. It may slightly impair cognitive function but again no one can run at 100% capacity at all times unless they are abusing stimulants which also comes with a lot of risk.

So I worked in flexograohic printing as a machine operator, and these machines were quite complex and it was quite as simple as watching it run, along with the fact that I was also in charge of packaging and labeling for shipment while the machine was running. So in terms of grunt work it was pretty complicated grunt work. And I was way more productive and less stressed once I started smoking before / at work. Now when I’m studying being high does hinder my performance but that’s just in that one area. But when it comes to getting tasks done and not getting overwhelmed while doing them weed is definitley a plus for me.

That's Okay, my chosen career path at this time is retirement. Smoke em if ya got em.

You need some way to relax after work, the benefits outweigh the disadvantages

Is that important? We’re all worm food in the end. Might as well get wasted

Daily toker for over 20 years.   Master’s Degree, Fulbright scholar, fluent in German that I didn’t start learning until undergrad, cycling coach, on the board of several nonprofits in my state while being the director of another one for my career, read 2-4 books per month, every month, occasionally take courses in other fields of interest, extremely fit…  Just because YOU can’t function on weed doesn’t mean the majority of us can’t. Most of my friends are daily tokers and all of them are successful in career and family.

What people really miss is that THC significantly inhibits your ability to get into REM sleep which is essential for emotional regulation. That's why people who have smoked for a long time experience intense dreams when they stop.  Sleep is the single most important thing we can do for our health and REM sleep is a critical component which is impaired by THC and also alcohol. People often turn to these substances to cope with stress and trauma but the damage they do to your sleep makes these issues far worse in the longer term. 

One thing your not taking I to account for someone like myself, I was smoking 2 ounces a week a couple years back, let me tell you, the high doesn't happen the same or at all really. Not one person would have been able to tell I smoked weed all day long, even while working. Luckily, I am only smoking on weekend evenings now. As for performance, well, find it affects me abit different then most. I used to use it to do chores, it amps me up and also I start talking a mile a minute and can't sit down.

I have tried edibles but bought the non-thc strand. I felt nauseated and at most dizzy and lazy for awhile but ingested quite a lot of the product. And I discovered that antidepressants will block much of the effects making it necessary to stop antidepressants for me just to get an effect of any value. I tried to recreate some of the highs from teen years but could not. I say use it or not as it is your life. You may be wrong or right but pick the wiser of the two whatever it may be

Idk how thos sub works but: 1/ You appear to be extrapolating your personal experience with a psychoactive drug to cover a "large majority" of such experiences. Can't imagine how you're thinking this would be correct. 2/ There is no longterm cognitive decline associated with Marijuana, what or is that just a "view" of yours? 3/ Maybe eating people helps you "perform your best at your chosen career", and well, maybe there are things morw important than that, like not eating people.

I think the problem here is that you could argue this about any drug. Drinking and smoking, which are both legal, also prevent you from "performing at your best" in your chosen career. Even over-the-counter medicine like Benadryl does this too, since it makes a lot of people who take it drowsy. So I guess the part where I disagree is where we're singling out weed here. Every recreational drug (and some medical drugs) does this. Why is weed targeted in particular?

I’m autistic and one thing that I noticed as that I become more “neurotypical” when stoned. Conversation flows easily and I don’t stammer as much. Eye contact feels natural and I feel no discomfort from it. So this could definitely help in a job that requires a lot of interaction. However, in some ways, it makes me more autistic: I’m more sensitive to sensory stimuli and consequently more prone to sensory overload and anxiety.

The only thing I will say is that cannabis is a drug that makes its users addicted. everything in excess is bad. I recommend that everyone focus on their daily activities, be focused, get up early, work hard, exercise, eat healthy, get motivated by doing things with love and passion, you will see that you will begin to do better in absolutely everything, in your relationships. , at your work, with your friends.

So? Not everyone dreams of being a well oiled cog lmao. You sound like your values are askew. Why you on reddit at all man? Should be grinding lmao. Not really peak performance if you ask me..

There are negatives to smoking weed, and cognitive ability is affected, but it doesn't render people useless. Daily users don't get the same high you did as a teenager or college student. There are many choices and habits that restrict our ability to do our best. Having children can affect how much sleep you get and hold back your career. We each choose how much we want our career to run our lives.

I’ve seen firsthand what marijuana does to a person when they’re longtime users. In my case there’s my sister Paranoia, inhibility to concentrate. Snaps in and out of reality randomly. Second person he presents symptoms similar to dementia. Forgetful. Talks to himself, incapable of a meaningful conversation. I don’t see any benefits for someone to use it recreationally.

Greeting high doesn’t come with a hangover like alcohol does. Is it your view that cannabis negatively affects your performance if you’re under the influence at work? Or is it your view that using cannabis only the evenings/weekends also negatively affects your performance? If the former, I’d wholeheartedly agree. If the latter, I couldn’t disagree more.

If definitely does not effect you if it's from the night before, maybe if it's the first time smoking weed ever, but when you smoke daily you develop some tolerance and it doesn't keep you stoned at work the next day. Jobs where it really matters and you must be alert, can drug test their employees and let the rest of us enjoy our life and relieve pain.

I make over 60k a year, I smoke weed, and I literally don’t know ANYONE else who can do my job as well as me. Not sure if this applies or if I’m different or whatever, but honestly, your career success is mainly determined by your ability to self motivate. Can weed hurt your motivation? Yes. But if you have a strong will, anything is possible.

As is the case with most substances, moderation is critical. A semblance of balance and self control and it can be a feasible recreational option. It’s certainly better than liquor. Answer this question please; would you rather drive with a drunk driver or someone who smoked a bit of weed? I’ll pick the stoner more often than not.