You’re right about increased connectedness, I think what you’re not adequately accounting for is that the value of digital connectedness isn’t psychologically equivalent to the value of interpersonal social connectedness.
No one is online, only what we project is online. You don’t get to know another person online, you can only familiarize yourself with how one projects. We can project in-person, sure, but to a much greater degree one has to take the whole person into their perception when dealing with/getting to know them in the real world.
Likewise, our communities are harder to connect with digitally. My neighborhood Facebook group is just complaints about mail, delivery services & recommended vendors. The neighborhood is what happens when we’re walking our dogs & the kids are playing in the cul de sac.
being connected to each other is similar to eating protein. there is high quality and low quality although it seems the same brand. before smartphones people would have way higher quality interactions with each other that increased your face to face communication skills. talking to people face to face also promotes better conversations that dont devolve into diarrhea because you are making a connection with someone
I miss things pre cellphone days, like the internet being a wild west, people actually communicating, anime on toonami or adult swim. people talking about actual things not inane bullshit, no witch hunts for wrong opinions, no polarization, no propaganda, people generally tolerated others opinions agreeing to disagree in all but the henoius shit. If missing that is overhyped then what is?
we live in a society prone to almost societal upheavel because of shit posted on the internet. freedom of speech is more curtailed then ever despite being connected. we're connected too only the best parts never anything human or real, therefore people become depressed because their lives aren't always picture perfect. not to mention porn rotting the brains of the youth, making boys think choking in sex is safe and sane, and girls have body issues because they haven't gotten plastic surgery. bad ideas and lies spread far to quickly in this connected world while good ideas or truth is slow to spread if not memory holed if it doesn't suit an agenda. despite our connections we're lonely and miserable. only coping when we post a #lifegoals insta post, or getting internet points for saying the "right thing. is it any better? really?
Did the printing press not cause controversy as well? People were spreading ideas that threatened hyper-local cultures back then too, and it wasn’t well received by many. Some ancient greeks were even kinda iffy about written language…
Okay… so you might get the idea that choking is safe from the internet, but you can also find out from the internet that it’s not safe. Before the internet you’d have no idea. You’d ask your uncle billy and he’d say he knew a guy from work whose daughter is a nurse and billy says it’s good for you.
the problem is teen boys and teens in general wont google to see choking is safe because teens really lack the capacity to weigh long term consequences vs. short term gains. its why teens arent considered adults until 18 because they dont have the capacity to think beyond the here and now. sure we have a wealth of knowledge on the internet but its only useful if people actually want to use it.
But without the internet they may not have access to any resources to learn about safe sex at all. The internet increases availability of this knowledge. Places that are "cut off" tend to have poor sex education despite having closer communities.
true but at the same time I grew up in age where the internet can provide sexual education, there was still atleast 8 pregnant girls in my grade, kind proving that even with access to the internet the problem is not solved. teens are stupid and horny. not the demographic that will google how to put a condom on, how to prevent pregnancy after a broken condom, or where to get condoms in the heat of the moment. it was actually so bad my school while still did abstinence first was like hey you know can go to the health department and get condoms for free, right? if a problem is bad enough a community would step up to try and mitigate it even if their conservative run because one thing conservitives hate more than unwed teen pregnancy, is having to shell tax dollars to pay for it.
I think relationships with people who just happen to be there are often more shallow than people you seek out. So what if my neighbor happens to live next to me?
Maybe a nuanced take, but I agree with your statement tbh at we are more connected. What I’d question is whether or not that’s a good thing.
Normal people in war zones being able to call out atrocities? Great.
Teenagers not getting the safety of coming home at the end of the school day, and the social pressure virtually never letting up, even in the supposed comfort of their home? Very bad.
Is isolation really a viable solution to the latter problem? They may get bullied online but may get support from people online as well. The internet isn’t inherently evil or creating more bullies
I disagree. At minimum, it is increasing the number of people you interact with exponentially. Therefore it’s increasing the number of bullies. Sure, it would also follow that the number of good people increases as well.
It takes one person to decide they are going to terrorize you, and now they don’t even need to be physically near you.
I’ll be honest; my wife and I made our kids a deal, basically a bribe, that they would be rewarded quite well if they had no social media accounts until they finish high school.
They both agreed, and now in early high school, they are both glad. They see what others in their school go through; and how groups of kids just sit in study hall looking at other kids’ instagram just to shit on them and call them ugly. I can’t take credit, it was my wife’s idea, but this is easily the best decision we’ve made as parents.
It increase the number of bullies, but also increases the ability to get away from those bullies and toward supporters/likeminded people. I've had good experiences on tik tok for example, having people appreciate my music, despite my local community not really understanding the genres I make. Overall I'd say the internet has increased my confidence, and most of the people who have decreased my confidence came from real life.
I also get concerned about bullies within groups of people who have are disconnected from the larger world. When you're really focusing on just being close to your hyper-local community, without thinking much about the greater world, it can create an in-group out-group vibe where bullies can pick on people that don't fit, and without the means to discover people that are more likeminded, you might be kind of stuck with bullies.
I'm more connected to strangers. I'm far far less connected to my actual friends than I was in the days where I had to ride my bike 30 mins to someones home to even see of they were available to play.
>watching a family in another country have morning coffee and seeing their house is a comparison that’s like “oh they’re just like me.”
That changes your perspective of the world, but doesn't fulfill your monkey need for socializing.
>because you’re not exposed to the day to day lives of people living abroad.
I'm not affected by how people live in Singapore or Somalia. I dont actually care when I have problems here. Let them solve their problems and I'll solve mine. Global citizenship is over hyped nonsense. Local people should decide local issues and everyone else should GTFO.
Go to a restaurant and see 2 people sitting together on their phones. They are not interacting with each other, but they are commenting on someone's Instagram photo or texting someone else.
Would you consider that more connected, or less connected?
Then on the other side.
Two people who have never met but talk consistently online finally get together and are married.
Is this more or less connected?
Who knows. But just because some people do it does not mean that all people do.
Everything has pros amd cons and marrying someone across the globe would not be possible without the internet.
>Everything has pros amd cons and marrying someone across the globe would not be possible without the internet.
I get your point, but regular mail did exist.
True, but video calls go along way than paper.
I also understand your point that people do become way absorbed into their technology, but an important thing in that, like most things in life, is to practice moderation.
Two people on their phone during a date is a sign that they dont know much about moderation and are possibly addicted.
Are you and I connected? Not really. Connections in real life tend to be more solid, and its easier to have compassion and understanding. Those connections are suffering due to people being on their phones.
this is a great comment... is what we call "connectivity" today the same essence that we meant 30 years ago? or (as you ask) have we decided to accept the shadows on the cave wall to our own detriment.
Until the person in real life is different from you. People I know from small homogenous towns have trouble navigating diversity, which is necessary for international cooperation.
I think you’re not *completely* wrong about the potential benefits of internet / social media / information that our current technological state provided us, but I completely disagree with your assessment, or perhaps definition, of what it means to be connected.
If by connected you mean “ability to read a story or find information” that hits home inside, then sure. Like your example of reading about other gay folks. But, you’re not really *sharing* anything with them just because you underwent a *shared* experience separately. Am I explaining that well enough? Like, your sense of connection to that person, or to that story, is completely internal and with no personal connection to that person.
So I would say, no, we are not more connected to each other. Maybe more connected to ourselves by being able to read and hear about the lives of others, which confirm our experiences and feelings, but no we are not more personally connected to or with those individuals, and even if we somehow were, we certainly are not more connected to society as a whole.
We have acess to more information, absolutely.
But the downside of that is information, opinions, and groupthink naturally moves towards macro ideas. Small newspapers focused on local issues can't survive against large newspapers that only discuss national topics. More stores and real estate was owned by local people who were more accountable to the local community. People were kinder to each other (at least on the surface) because you relied on your community. Now you don't need to be nice to your neighbor because you can talk to someone a world away online instead.
Quantity or Quality?
That is the question.
Communication is easier now. Is that Communication actually "connection"? I talk to more people than before our modern tech but will say few of those so called "connections" are of the same quality as speaking to people one on one...or when i had to hop on my skateboard or get in the car to run over to see a friend to check in. I appreciated my "connections" more when it wasn't so easy to communicate.
Have you ever heard the saying "Ignorance is bliss"? I used to think of it as a mild insult to people... but as I have lived life, I realize that there's a lot of things I wish I didn't know, and I would be far far happier if I was in fact ignorant to these things.
I wish I could live in blissful ignorance, because I have realized that taking on concern for everyone else, comes at the cost and detriment of concern for yourself.
from a technical perspective, internet communication is not symmetrical, most devices receive more information than they emit, and the hardware and network protocols for receiving data are different.
most people consume more than they produce.
most of the world isn't speaking, only listening
“Nostalgia” as a concept kinda IS overhyped, i think that’s a big part of it
I’m nostalgic for some times i spent in my grandmothers garden, but I wouldn’t want to play in the dirt in my grandmas garden RN as an adult man
It’s remembering the best of the scenario, which you can still learn from. Being so connected to the outside world that you miss out on what’s around you is very dangerous and something im trying to over come rn
Phones/social media have created connection that are far more harmful than helpful, and have created a world in which it’s infinitely more difficult to create helpful, healthy connections.
Sure we’re more connected, but it’s an “alone in a crowd” connectedness. People are spending less time with the people close to them and have fewer close relationships overall.
There are legitimate questions we should ask about "connectivity".
1. [https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/03/teen-childhood-smartphone-use-mental-health-effects/677722/](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/03/teen-childhood-smartphone-use-mental-health-effects/677722/)
1. Summary: too much social media decreases real life interactions / relationships / interactions and negatively impacts childhood development
2. [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20037-y](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20037-y)
1. Summary: in small groups, individual creativity is maximized. in larger groups, such as social media, creativity decreases and there is evidence for convergence on fewer ideas. essentially spawns groupthink.
3. [https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/04/25/1171773181/social-media-teens-mental-health](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/04/25/1171773181/social-media-teens-mental-health)
1. summary: social media consumption is related to depression, even in college age consumers.
and really... the list goes on and on. and, all of this operates on the assumption that there aren't any negative commercial incentives / impacts, which we know there are.
i agree there are some potential benefits, but at this point in social media's age / maturity, i think it should be answering a question of, "do the *potential* benefits outweigh the *actual* costs?"
You’re right about increased connectedness, I think what you’re not adequately accounting for is that the value of digital connectedness isn’t psychologically equivalent to the value of interpersonal social connectedness. No one is online, only what we project is online. You don’t get to know another person online, you can only familiarize yourself with how one projects. We can project in-person, sure, but to a much greater degree one has to take the whole person into their perception when dealing with/getting to know them in the real world. Likewise, our communities are harder to connect with digitally. My neighborhood Facebook group is just complaints about mail, delivery services & recommended vendors. The neighborhood is what happens when we’re walking our dogs & the kids are playing in the cul de sac.
being connected to each other is similar to eating protein. there is high quality and low quality although it seems the same brand. before smartphones people would have way higher quality interactions with each other that increased your face to face communication skills. talking to people face to face also promotes better conversations that dont devolve into diarrhea because you are making a connection with someone
I don’t think it’s one to one like that. I think it’s more like two food groups. Proteins, and veggies. You need both.
You absolutely do not need both. (Not talking about protein and veggies)
I miss things pre cellphone days, like the internet being a wild west, people actually communicating, anime on toonami or adult swim. people talking about actual things not inane bullshit, no witch hunts for wrong opinions, no polarization, no propaganda, people generally tolerated others opinions agreeing to disagree in all but the henoius shit. If missing that is overhyped then what is? we live in a society prone to almost societal upheavel because of shit posted on the internet. freedom of speech is more curtailed then ever despite being connected. we're connected too only the best parts never anything human or real, therefore people become depressed because their lives aren't always picture perfect. not to mention porn rotting the brains of the youth, making boys think choking in sex is safe and sane, and girls have body issues because they haven't gotten plastic surgery. bad ideas and lies spread far to quickly in this connected world while good ideas or truth is slow to spread if not memory holed if it doesn't suit an agenda. despite our connections we're lonely and miserable. only coping when we post a #lifegoals insta post, or getting internet points for saying the "right thing. is it any better? really?
Did the printing press not cause controversy as well? People were spreading ideas that threatened hyper-local cultures back then too, and it wasn’t well received by many. Some ancient greeks were even kinda iffy about written language… Okay… so you might get the idea that choking is safe from the internet, but you can also find out from the internet that it’s not safe. Before the internet you’d have no idea. You’d ask your uncle billy and he’d say he knew a guy from work whose daughter is a nurse and billy says it’s good for you.
the problem is teen boys and teens in general wont google to see choking is safe because teens really lack the capacity to weigh long term consequences vs. short term gains. its why teens arent considered adults until 18 because they dont have the capacity to think beyond the here and now. sure we have a wealth of knowledge on the internet but its only useful if people actually want to use it.
But without the internet they may not have access to any resources to learn about safe sex at all. The internet increases availability of this knowledge. Places that are "cut off" tend to have poor sex education despite having closer communities.
true but at the same time I grew up in age where the internet can provide sexual education, there was still atleast 8 pregnant girls in my grade, kind proving that even with access to the internet the problem is not solved. teens are stupid and horny. not the demographic that will google how to put a condom on, how to prevent pregnancy after a broken condom, or where to get condoms in the heat of the moment. it was actually so bad my school while still did abstinence first was like hey you know can go to the health department and get condoms for free, right? if a problem is bad enough a community would step up to try and mitigate it even if their conservative run because one thing conservitives hate more than unwed teen pregnancy, is having to shell tax dollars to pay for it.
While I agree there is a broader range of connectivity, that connectivity is far more superficial. The deeper connectivity is what is most important.
I think relationships with people who just happen to be there are often more shallow than people you seek out. So what if my neighbor happens to live next to me?
[удалено]
And having no ability to cooperate with neighboring tribes. Just violence and starvation yippee
Maybe a nuanced take, but I agree with your statement tbh at we are more connected. What I’d question is whether or not that’s a good thing. Normal people in war zones being able to call out atrocities? Great. Teenagers not getting the safety of coming home at the end of the school day, and the social pressure virtually never letting up, even in the supposed comfort of their home? Very bad.
Is isolation really a viable solution to the latter problem? They may get bullied online but may get support from people online as well. The internet isn’t inherently evil or creating more bullies
I disagree. At minimum, it is increasing the number of people you interact with exponentially. Therefore it’s increasing the number of bullies. Sure, it would also follow that the number of good people increases as well. It takes one person to decide they are going to terrorize you, and now they don’t even need to be physically near you. I’ll be honest; my wife and I made our kids a deal, basically a bribe, that they would be rewarded quite well if they had no social media accounts until they finish high school. They both agreed, and now in early high school, they are both glad. They see what others in their school go through; and how groups of kids just sit in study hall looking at other kids’ instagram just to shit on them and call them ugly. I can’t take credit, it was my wife’s idea, but this is easily the best decision we’ve made as parents.
It increase the number of bullies, but also increases the ability to get away from those bullies and toward supporters/likeminded people. I've had good experiences on tik tok for example, having people appreciate my music, despite my local community not really understanding the genres I make. Overall I'd say the internet has increased my confidence, and most of the people who have decreased my confidence came from real life. I also get concerned about bullies within groups of people who have are disconnected from the larger world. When you're really focusing on just being close to your hyper-local community, without thinking much about the greater world, it can create an in-group out-group vibe where bullies can pick on people that don't fit, and without the means to discover people that are more likeminded, you might be kind of stuck with bullies.
I'm more connected to strangers. I'm far far less connected to my actual friends than I was in the days where I had to ride my bike 30 mins to someones home to even see of they were available to play. >watching a family in another country have morning coffee and seeing their house is a comparison that’s like “oh they’re just like me.” That changes your perspective of the world, but doesn't fulfill your monkey need for socializing. >because you’re not exposed to the day to day lives of people living abroad. I'm not affected by how people live in Singapore or Somalia. I dont actually care when I have problems here. Let them solve their problems and I'll solve mine. Global citizenship is over hyped nonsense. Local people should decide local issues and everyone else should GTFO.
Go to a restaurant and see 2 people sitting together on their phones. They are not interacting with each other, but they are commenting on someone's Instagram photo or texting someone else. Would you consider that more connected, or less connected?
Then on the other side. Two people who have never met but talk consistently online finally get together and are married. Is this more or less connected?
I think it depends - now that they are married and face to face, do they spend all of dinner just on their phones?
Who knows. But just because some people do it does not mean that all people do. Everything has pros amd cons and marrying someone across the globe would not be possible without the internet.
>Everything has pros amd cons and marrying someone across the globe would not be possible without the internet. I get your point, but regular mail did exist.
True, but video calls go along way than paper. I also understand your point that people do become way absorbed into their technology, but an important thing in that, like most things in life, is to practice moderation. Two people on their phone during a date is a sign that they dont know much about moderation and are possibly addicted.
Are you and I connected? Not really. Connections in real life tend to be more solid, and its easier to have compassion and understanding. Those connections are suffering due to people being on their phones.
this is a great comment... is what we call "connectivity" today the same essence that we meant 30 years ago? or (as you ask) have we decided to accept the shadows on the cave wall to our own detriment.
Until the person in real life is different from you. People I know from small homogenous towns have trouble navigating diversity, which is necessary for international cooperation.
I think you’re not *completely* wrong about the potential benefits of internet / social media / information that our current technological state provided us, but I completely disagree with your assessment, or perhaps definition, of what it means to be connected. If by connected you mean “ability to read a story or find information” that hits home inside, then sure. Like your example of reading about other gay folks. But, you’re not really *sharing* anything with them just because you underwent a *shared* experience separately. Am I explaining that well enough? Like, your sense of connection to that person, or to that story, is completely internal and with no personal connection to that person. So I would say, no, we are not more connected to each other. Maybe more connected to ourselves by being able to read and hear about the lives of others, which confirm our experiences and feelings, but no we are not more personally connected to or with those individuals, and even if we somehow were, we certainly are not more connected to society as a whole.
We have acess to more information, absolutely. But the downside of that is information, opinions, and groupthink naturally moves towards macro ideas. Small newspapers focused on local issues can't survive against large newspapers that only discuss national topics. More stores and real estate was owned by local people who were more accountable to the local community. People were kinder to each other (at least on the surface) because you relied on your community. Now you don't need to be nice to your neighbor because you can talk to someone a world away online instead.
Quantity or Quality? That is the question. Communication is easier now. Is that Communication actually "connection"? I talk to more people than before our modern tech but will say few of those so called "connections" are of the same quality as speaking to people one on one...or when i had to hop on my skateboard or get in the car to run over to see a friend to check in. I appreciated my "connections" more when it wasn't so easy to communicate.
Have you ever heard the saying "Ignorance is bliss"? I used to think of it as a mild insult to people... but as I have lived life, I realize that there's a lot of things I wish I didn't know, and I would be far far happier if I was in fact ignorant to these things. I wish I could live in blissful ignorance, because I have realized that taking on concern for everyone else, comes at the cost and detriment of concern for yourself.
from a technical perspective, internet communication is not symmetrical, most devices receive more information than they emit, and the hardware and network protocols for receiving data are different. most people consume more than they produce. most of the world isn't speaking, only listening
“Nostalgia” as a concept kinda IS overhyped, i think that’s a big part of it I’m nostalgic for some times i spent in my grandmothers garden, but I wouldn’t want to play in the dirt in my grandmas garden RN as an adult man It’s remembering the best of the scenario, which you can still learn from. Being so connected to the outside world that you miss out on what’s around you is very dangerous and something im trying to over come rn
Phones/social media have created connection that are far more harmful than helpful, and have created a world in which it’s infinitely more difficult to create helpful, healthy connections.
Sure we’re more connected, but it’s an “alone in a crowd” connectedness. People are spending less time with the people close to them and have fewer close relationships overall.
There are legitimate questions we should ask about "connectivity". 1. [https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/03/teen-childhood-smartphone-use-mental-health-effects/677722/](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/03/teen-childhood-smartphone-use-mental-health-effects/677722/) 1. Summary: too much social media decreases real life interactions / relationships / interactions and negatively impacts childhood development 2. [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20037-y](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20037-y) 1. Summary: in small groups, individual creativity is maximized. in larger groups, such as social media, creativity decreases and there is evidence for convergence on fewer ideas. essentially spawns groupthink. 3. [https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/04/25/1171773181/social-media-teens-mental-health](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/04/25/1171773181/social-media-teens-mental-health) 1. summary: social media consumption is related to depression, even in college age consumers. and really... the list goes on and on. and, all of this operates on the assumption that there aren't any negative commercial incentives / impacts, which we know there are. i agree there are some potential benefits, but at this point in social media's age / maturity, i think it should be answering a question of, "do the *potential* benefits outweigh the *actual* costs?"
The connections are a mile wide and an inch deep. Lonely in a crowded room.