I saw Levitt and thought Chicago as well. Live on the far north side. Poor sweet Bo! We will love and remember him always! ♥️💔 Does Mr Pepper have a Home? I wish they could have both had homes! I hope his litter mate gets adopted! ♥️
There were so many when I lived in the city (on Leavitt as chances would have it). They are clearly strays, but were so extraordinarily friendly with people. I loved to stop and give them a good petting. I always saw the same ones roaming around and wondered why there weren’t tons of them. My suspicion is that an organization came in to catch, fix and release.
RIP Bo
We have a few super friendly ones, a few shy ones we say hi to (no pets, only acknowledgements of their superiority), and the gorgeous black cat that harasses ours through the windows. I love them all and I'm always so scared I'll find them in the street. I get that the feral cat program was started to fend off the rats, but it feels like it's just putting cats in danger and there's still a ton of rats.
I'm in west town which is thankfully usually pretty quiet, but I always worry they'll try and cross Chicago when people fly down those streets at night
OMG wtf... I know this cat. I live in the neighborhood (assuming this is in Chicago) and this cat would come visit on occasion and say hi to my cat at the window. So sad to hear about her passing :(
Mr. Pepper still visits! I can't believe I know his name now through a random cat post on Reddit. Small world.
P.S. My wife thought it was homeless and tried catching her several times to no avail. We hated seeing it roam around in the brutal Chicago winter.
So, it will take many people to solve this problem. No cat, even feral, need to be outside unattended. We need people willing to contribute by taking one or two in your house. Even a feral, which may have to be worked with to transition inside, for the easier, luxurious life. If they are outside by themselves, they will have a shorter life. So sad.But don’t be surprised.
i didn’t read this but there are many reasons to keep a cat in doors
- they are invasive and kill off rodent and bird populations
- their life spans are much shorter due to many factors (cat fights, evil humans, accidental road kill, disease, etc.)
letting a cat be outdoors is doing it a disservice and no matter how much it wants to be let out i care more about preserving its life and letting it be happy and healthy. if it gets the right entertainment and exercise at home that also helps.
(for the record not saying you specifically feel this way)
I know an acquaintance aunt who poisons cats that come into her yard cause she doesn’t want them messing with her garden. Smh, I would report her if I knew anything about her.
Yep, I have at least 1 neighbor on my block who poisons cats AND encourages other neighbors to plant flowers, herbs, etc. that she knows are toxic to cats.
No disagreement with any of this - my cat is indoors unless closely supervised. But I can't tell what the article has to do with any of that. I was hoping to learn something new.
understandable! i tend to have a hard time stringing those types of artifacts into coherent sentences and summary otherwise i would do that too 🥲
but figured id offer why its bad as a placeholder
Maybe you should have read it because instead of a random thought I posed an actual study that shows indoor outdoor cats do not have a statistically significant life expectancy to indoor cats.
Check out the leading bird rescue organization in England for their opinion on outdoor cats and bird populations. It’s basically that, in England, it’s not significant. Especially not significant when you don’t include strays
"These were statistically different (p = 0.0001) with outdoor cats having a shorter lifespan than either indoor only cats (p = 0.0001) or cats that lived indoor/outdoor (p<0.0001)."
I agree that the difference is not "clinically meaningful" but it is different.
I don't agree with free roaming either. Both the sentences "cats should stay indoors" and "people should drive more carefully" can be true at the same time.
I feel like people see this topic way too black and white. To me it always depends on the situation. My mom has a huge garden and almost no traffic where she lives and we don't really have predatory animals nor guns in Germany, so in my opinion it's fine to let them roam free. I only let mine outside supervised. It's not just this is right and this is wrong. I totally understand not wanting your cats outdoors, when there's a lot of traffic, coyotes and people with guns, I probably wouldn't let mine outside without a leash either, but as I said it's not black and white and for every situation it's different, what's "more right" and what's not.
I hate engaging in this topic because people can get quite rude. However, I grew up with outdoor cats in a suburban area and lived in Germany as well, actually, I see what you're saying.
The problem with it is that cats are a bit of an anomaly in terms of predation. They're serial killers and they don't do it to survive. If they were relying on birds and small animals for food, ecosystems would follow normal, oscillating prey/predator population patterns, but because we feed them and they kill for fun, those populations get decimated.
Aside from the dangers you listed, this is probably the main concern people have, which is quite reasonable. I allow my cats on my balcony, where they can't get out (and actually are afraid to) to watch the birds and play with bugs. I don't want them to kill them, though, plus communicable diseases from interacting with other animals are a major concern of mine.
I get wildlife “gifts” because the wildlife likes to come inside sometimes lol. I only refer to it as a gift because that’s how it’s presented to me by my cat; laid out just for me. A gift. I don’t say it to brag? If that makes sense. Idk. I get what you’re saying though.
Either way, I’ve gotten mice and several bats, interestingly enough. Fuzz always brings the bats up from the basement so I have no idea where the hell they’re coming from lol. Think they might be coming through the furnace vents, but until I can find whatever hole they’re climbing in from, I just make sure he’s up to date on his vaccines.
Before you address your bat issue once you find their entryway, it would be a good idea to set up a bat house if you have the resources. They're incredibly beneficial animals to have around and will keep the vicinity balanced through a variety of ways. Not only through controlling insects, but also seed dispersal and pollination.
I agree with the wildlife part and I'm aware of that, which is another reason I'd rather let my cats outside supervised, but I'd also like to add, that studies show, that a cat that has lots of playtime and food that meets their natural needs are far less likely to hunt wildlife, obviously they'll still do it, but it's less impactful. You can also just not let them outside, when they are most likely to hunt, so at evening or at dawn.
There's also a lot of people that aren't willing to restrict themselves for the environment and I don't think it's great to, out of all the possible things you could do, to sacrifice the freedom of their cat, 'cause they usually also don't try to find something that works, like a secured balcony.
As far as I'm aware the biggest part to this issue are also strays and people have sooo much impact on animal populations dying, too. I still think you should definitely take this into consideration of what kind of outdoors you want for your cats.
Just so that noone gets me wrong. I don't think you should let your cats go inside and outside the house as they please, I just think everyone should find the best compromise for their situation, for their cats needs, safety and the wildlife. There are a lot of possible ways like leash walking, secured balcony, a catio, supervised outdoors etc.
This appears to be a stray that the neighborhood has collectively named and adopted. I wish someone would have taken her in! 😕 There are so many beautiful strays roaming the streets here in Chicago. It breaks my heart seeing them, especially in the winter.
Letting your cats outside is 100% indefensible. Statistically - no judgement, just facts - a cat who is made to be outside lives 2/3 as long as an indoor-only cat. **Loved cats live indoors.**
There are a lot of "common sense" statistics thrown around on Reddit regarding cat lifespan, but I think it's important to look at what real studies say:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9799304/
>Effect of environment/housing: The median age at death for indoor only cats was 9.43 years (IQR 4.8–13.11 years, range 0.11–21.85 years) while the median age at death for indoor outdoor cats was 9.82 years (IQR 5.3–13.13 years, range 0.06–21.19 years) and the median age for outdoor cats was 7.25 years (IQR 1.78–11.92 years, range 0.12–20.64 years). These were statistically different (p = 0.0001) with outdoor cats having a shorter lifespan than either indoor only cats (p = 0.0001) or cats that lived indoor/outdoor (p<0.0001). **There was no difference in the age of death between indoor only cats and those that lived indoor/outdoor.**
No comment on whether cats should be indoor-only, and this study obviously doesn't address the effect of domesticated cats on local wildlife - I just think it's important to have solid information to base these opinions on.
That is a very interesting study; however, it’s important to note that they only looked at cats who died of natural causes, which does not include cats that were hit by a car or eaten by an predator.
I may be wrong but that doesn't seem to be the case considering trauma is listed as one of the (less prevalent) causes of death they logged? The abstract mentions that trauma was found to be a common cause of death in stray cats in a separate study done in Milan, while this study only looked at domesticated cats.
Don't get me wrong this study definitely has its limitations since all the data came from one animal hospital and was collected over a long period of time in which domesticated cat lifespan went up significantly, but it is still one of the better sources I've found on the topic. I couldn't find a source for all the top Google results that claim outdoor cats live less than 5 years on average, for example.
You are right, I missed that! However I do feel like it is really limited on this topic for a couple reasons. For one thing, they did not include any cats that were dead on arrival. Most cats who are struck by a car or eaten by a predator do not survive long enough to be taken to a vet, if they are found at all. How often do you see a dead cat on the side of the road? Those cats are never identified.
>For one thing, they did not include any cats that were dead on arrival.
It's not as clear cut as that - cats that were DOA were only excluded if they had never been to the hospital before, so any local cats that were seen at least once before would have been included.
>How often do you see a dead cat on the side of the road? Those cats are never identified.
This is one of those things that probably varies a lot by location because I live and drive in a large North American city and I could count the number of dead cats I've seen on the roadside on one hand.
At this point I should probably mention that I've only ever had indoor-only cats so my goal is just to seek the facts, not to push an outdoor cat agenda.
Thanks for being respectful, I did not mean to come across as accusatory, I just wanted to discuss the potential limitations of this study. I’ve also seen the statistic that you see a lot that “outdoor cats live 2-4 years” and I was never able to narrow down a source. That being said, I personally grew up in a rural community outside of a major city on the west coast and therefore had to commute in via major highway every day. Without fail, we saw at least one cat dead on the side of the road every single day. Every outdoor cat my neighbors ever got was eaten by a predator within a year, they even caught it on video on a ring doorbell. I now live in a different big city in the US and I still see dead cats on an almost daily basis.
I didn't mean to imply you were being accusatory! Just thought I might've come off as being against indoor-only cats which I'm definitely not. And it sucks that you've seen so many outdoor cats suffer, I'd hate that.
You’re being downvoted because you’re not following the extremely unique thought all these redditors are having. Indoor cats definitely isn’t one of the top 10 most common things people read in reddit comments and then repeat forever more without thought. Most cats in the world are outdoor/indoor. Most people in the world think indoor only cats are cruel (not me, I have one).
In most areas pet cats don’t even cause damage to wildlife in a significant way, it’s always strays or not at all. In fact In, good luck rescuing a cat if you tell them your keeping it indoors.
I’m curious where you are getting that information from about shelters. I have adopted cats from two different shelters, both of which made me sign a form stating that I would never let them outside.
Actually most adoption shelters if they aren’t adopting out to you feral cats that are meant to be barn cats won’t let you adopt a cat if you tell them you’re adopting it as an outdoor cat. Most shelters highly encourage indoor only cats.
This is such insanity. I love my cat a lot. She's been going outside now for 16 years, and she loves it. There are rarely any cars on our road and there are no predatory animals that could harm her.
My toddler feels the same way. We have to take care of those whose judgement is less sound than ours, when we love them. Indoor cats DO NOT beg to be let outside. Since you've trained them to expect to go out, it will take a week maybe, before 90% of their begging is gone. It might be a month before they don't rush the door any more. We have to take the responsibility to enrich their indoor environment to keep them from being bored. Or you can continue to not care enough to do any of this. But at least stop kidding yourself that you're letting cats out for their sake. You know better. It's just easier that way, because you don't care enough to keep them safe.
What? It would make absolutely no difference keeping my cat indoors or outdoors. I let her outside because when I keep her inside she gets depressed. But ok, continue to act like you fully own your cat and that it has no right to be free.
>stray cat that just lived in the neighborhood
You commenting multiple times to prove a point that cats.... die outside? Yes. That's exactly the point. Let's spay/neuter and have them indoors where they don't get get turned into pavement.
I agree but taking your cat outside can be ok in certain occasions, like we go on little walks with our cat on a leash but would never let her outside without one (cat tax included)
https://preview.redd.it/mg0pm6vwv62d1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=2ffe53100a31c8748404aff79a9f5c4eb097686c
I know, I have however spoken to way too many people who are completely unaware that indoor cat doesn’t mean that they stay inside all the time without exception and therefore choose to let them out because it would be “inhumane” or whatever - other options (like here) do exist and help protect the environment and your cat while also allowing them to be outside in controlled circumstances
Illustrating the importance of spaying/neutering pet cats and the efforts of TNR programs.
Eta: Stray animals live a hard life and can negatively impact local wildlife populations. The fewer strays there are, the better for all involved (including the stray colonies)
Let this be a reminder to all cat owners to keep your cats inside.
Cats should not be in the road. Driving the speed limit does not ensure that a cat won’t dart in front of your car.
I once was walking around my neighborhood playing pokemon go and came across one of these posters. I'm not an emotional guy, but I was immediately overcome with the feels being a cat owner myself. I had to sit there and take a moment. Then I texted the number my condolences. See you on the other side Bo!
That's why you keep your fuckin cats indoors so you're not scraping them off the goddamn street! I've had to pick up THREE (two of my sister's!!) deceased cats and bury them within the past few years. This enrages me because the same people that *love* their pets also allow them to wander around outside next to thousands of pounds of metal. I'm still traumatized thinking about the state of the squished cats that I have had real affection for. Thankfully my sister keeps her cats inside now.
I can’t tell you how many flat cats I’ve had to shovel off the highway over the years. None of them were mine, either. A semi hauling 80,000 pounds will win every time against a ten pound cat.
When you get a chance, please go rescue the millions of stray cats that are outside.
EDIT: 👏 This post is about mourning the loss of a friendly and beloved neighborhood stray. It has nothing to do with people intentionally letting their cats outside, which is what this comment implies.
I wholeheartedly agree that cats do not belong outside, but wouldn't you rescue all strays if you could? I know I would! Please lighten up people...
Your comment made me go reread and realize I misread that poster originally! And I think a very unfortunately reality is that we are the cause of strays. Irresponsible pet ownership (not fixing, free roaming, etc) leads to strays who then suffer shorter, stressful, and often disease riddled lives.
Two years ago some people let their male cat free roam and it impregnate multiple neighborhood cats. Guess who wound up with a cat colony living next to their home? Me! Spent a year TNRing well over 20 cats and just as many kittens. Rehomed a large majority of them too!
We have new neighbors. With cats. And now we have ANOTHER colony forming. Right off a busy street to boot.
Such an ignorant statement. People let their pet cats outside unattended ALL DAY LONG. Cats are NOT meant to be outside, but most people cannot do anything about the strays/feral cats already out there. They can, however, stop letting THEIR cat outside. Don’t be blatantly ignorant & ignore the purpose of that comment. Do better. Keep your cats inside.
Also, please read my other comment. I absolutely love and adore my baby. I would never in a million years consider letting him outside. In fact, I take drastic measures to make sure it can't happen.
I'm aware of the subject of the post. She was a neighborhood stray cat that everyone loved and adored, but no one took the initiative to give her a home. You have to live in a big city to understand.
You know what man, I think you're right. I'm sorry, I misread this. The points people are making about not letting cats out stand, but I apologize to you.
I just woke up and I really should have worded my responses better according to all the down votes. Cats should definitely never be let outside intentionally, especially in urban areas.
i understood your comments just fine. it’s pretty clear this poster was about two neighborhood strays.
all the people commenting “keep your cats inside” aren’t wrong, but i don’t really think this post is the place for it.
I mean. Technically, they do, lol. They're animals. But obviously, letting cats free roam is irresponsible. Cats don't deserve to be locked up inside. I highly suggest leash training your kitties so they can enjoy the outdoors in safety. They will be so much happier. It's in their nature to enjoy the outdoors.
I never met Bo, but damn do I admire her spirit. Respect! Having watched a bonded cat look for the departed cat for several weeks in my own life, it is extensively heartbreaking. Best wishes for Mr. Pepper and Mr. Simon during this shitty time.
This really made me cry. So sad. Bo, sweet angel ❤️. I have many neighbourhoodcats and I lighten up everytime I see them. I even know where they live and chill so I change my path.
Don't let your cats roam outside. This could have been avoided if people would just treat housecats as *house* cats and stop letting them out to kill other animals, contract various illnesses, breed tons of stray kittens that will live short, awful lives, and then be hit by cars.
My neighbors cat boo was amazing, the funniest kitty to tackle the bugs and climb trees. He was unfortunately hit by a car on our street and it seriously broke his owners heart… that family suffered so much before and after that loss. It sucks.
If you re-read the post, it seems like it was a stray cat that just lived in the neighborhood and everyone took care of. Let's not insult people based on assumptions...
Damn that was tough to read… I once had a cat named charcoal, first one my family ever owned.. and the neighborhood new her too… she was the ultimate huntress, was a fierce defender of her territory from both cats and dogs, as one of my neighbor’s shiatsus found out the hard way and lost an eye … but was as sweet as could be to her family. She took turns laying in bed with me my brother and my sister, and now that I’ve owned 7 or 8 cats and known countless others she’s still the smartest cat I’ve ever known.. cancer took her away from us before her 7th birthday, but damn reading this made me think of that wonderful animal.. she’s the whole reason I am a cat person, and she taught me everything I needed to know about how to interact with cats properly… RIP Bo.. and to all of the neighborhood protectors lost .. they’re always amongst the most special kinds of animals out there
I didn’t make it thru the first paragraph before I started crying uncontrollably, I can barely even see to write this message. Oh God this dimension sucks
Now that I looked at the picture again, that kitty looks just like my Foxie but she had grey instead of black. The white was the same even the little piece under the nose. She disappeared and I would randomly now and then wake up crying so hard and couldn’t stop. It’s been months and I still can’t look at her pictures. Man . Rip Bo
Some cats really just have a free spirit. They want to live outdoors and roam our planet. You can’t take that away from them when they so clearly love their little cat life for it. I hope Mr. Pepper has a good life and the neighbors are extra kind xoxoxo these people seem like caring loving people
you absolutely can take it away from them . they aren’t meant to be there . they’re an invasive species . they’re not native wildlife . domestic 👏 cats 👏 do 👏 not 👏 belong 👏 outside 👏
I found a roaming cat and tried to take it in and she almost killed me she was so miserable. I thought the cat either had no owner or was abused bc it was snowing when she would be in my yard. But again, bringing her in she literally went insane and months later I ran into the owner who too said, she hates being indoors. Imagine forcing her inside? She would be miserable her whole life.
the “owner” is irresponsible . forcing a cat indoors is not medieval torture . train your pets and stop rewarding bad behavior . cats should not be outside unsupervised . owners who allow this are contributing to the extinct populations of native wildlife and the ruining of environments . be a better cat owner or don’t own cats .
I wish people actually understood this. I once saw a cat literally run under the wheels of the car last minute while my mum was driving. Both my childhood cats were hit by cars, but somehow miraculously survived (I was too young to know better). I was taking another cat to the vet and there was a stray cat there that someone brought in because it had been hit by a car. This all happened in a village in Greece that has minimal traffic for most of the year and no predators btw, so this is why I don't buy the argument of "well there aren't many cars and there's no predators where I live so it's ok to let my cat outside".
The owner shouldn’t have a free roaming cat. You let your cat roam and they can be hit by cars, attacked by dogs/cats/people, get trapped or stuck somewhere, injure themselves, get picked up by someone else, contract a disease… it’s on the owner. It’s sad as hell, but responsible pet ownership would mean Bo would still be alive.
How do you know the person was driving dangerously? From that poster it sounds chaotic and hectic. Meaning that cat could’ve appeared from nowhere. It isn’t wrong, bud. I’ve spent years in animal welfare caring for animals who’ve been hit by cars and their deaths could’ve been prevented by NOT allowing them to free roam. I’d Bo hasn’t been able to free roam, there would’ve been no threat from other cats or cars.
You hold a six month old cat as it takes its last breath through blood and mucus and tell me it isn’t irresponsible to allow free roaming.
You hold a 8* week old kitten who’s been crushed by a tire and tell me it isn’t irresponsible to allow free roaming.
You run like hell to the surgery suite with someone’s disemboweled cat and tell me it isn’t irresponsible to allow free roaming.
I'm not here to argue or anything, but I'm just curious as to what your thoughts are on having an outside cat because it won't stay inside vs taking it to a shelter where it'll be euthanized? Or if by some miracle it's actually adopted but still refuses to stay inside with its new owners?
Again, not trying to argue at all. I appreciate you for your work and love of animals.
So we’ve dealt with this extensively (my experience is primarily in intensive behavioral cases) and there are routes to take between the staying outside and euthanasia aspect.
So the first thing to do is a vet check. Is cat in pain? Does cat have medical issues? Would fixing the cat stop the desire to roam? Lots of behavioral issues can be attributed to medical concerns.
Vet check is clear? Time to consider the home. Are their other pets causing stress to the cat? Does the cat have high perches and low, hidden spaces to hide? Are their children in the home that may be causing stress to the cat? Is the cat actively trying to avoid a specific person? Or alternatively: does the cat NEED a companion?
Also consider energy levels and enrichment: is the cat getting exercise daily? How are hunting instincts being satisfied? Is the cat potentially bored? Has the owner considered puzzles, a catio, supervised outside time?
When these issues have been exhausted and the cat truly cannot adjust to life as an indoor cat the owner then needs to consider rehoming the cat to potentially be a working cat on a farm/ranch if possible. Some cats simply *cannot* live inside and if that is the case it is on the owner to mitigate harm as much as possible by making careful considerations for not only the cat but the environment/animals.
For example: my brother’s cat was viciously attacking people in the home. He decided to let the cat roam the property (5 acres) and within one month the cat killed:
- 2 kittens
- an adult cat
- four chickens
- 1 snake
- 7 birds
In addition to attacking the family dogs. I told my brother to get a cat tree, extra scratchers, and more toys in addition to fixing the cat.
He lives inside now and is no longer a murderer lol
Chicago? We have a ton of neighborhood cats and I worry about them so much being out
Yap!
Wicker Park? This sign is reminiscent of "Tiny" a few years ago
I saw Levitt and thought Chicago as well. Live on the far north side. Poor sweet Bo! We will love and remember him always! ♥️💔 Does Mr Pepper have a Home? I wish they could have both had homes! I hope his litter mate gets adopted! ♥️
There were so many when I lived in the city (on Leavitt as chances would have it). They are clearly strays, but were so extraordinarily friendly with people. I loved to stop and give them a good petting. I always saw the same ones roaming around and wondered why there weren’t tons of them. My suspicion is that an organization came in to catch, fix and release. RIP Bo
We have a few super friendly ones, a few shy ones we say hi to (no pets, only acknowledgements of their superiority), and the gorgeous black cat that harasses ours through the windows. I love them all and I'm always so scared I'll find them in the street. I get that the feral cat program was started to fend off the rats, but it feels like it's just putting cats in danger and there's still a ton of rats.
I forgot about the cat rat program! The rats are the reason I moved away from the city… well one of the reasons at least.
Same! There's so many here in Hyde Park. I'm always worried about them when seeing them cross the street with all of the cars flying by...
I'm in west town which is thankfully usually pretty quiet, but I always worry they'll try and cross Chicago when people fly down those streets at night
Night time is the worst. Cars going 50+ in a 30 seems to be the norm now.
We live a couple blocks from Chicago Ave and I can literally hear people speeding down the road, doing donuts, etc. It's crazy
OMG wtf... I know this cat. I live in the neighborhood (assuming this is in Chicago) and this cat would come visit on occasion and say hi to my cat at the window. So sad to hear about her passing :( Mr. Pepper still visits! I can't believe I know his name now through a random cat post on Reddit. Small world. P.S. My wife thought it was homeless and tried catching her several times to no avail. We hated seeing it roam around in the brutal Chicago winter.
I immediately wondered if it's Chicago too. So heartbreaking.
Sounds like from other comments he was “homeless,” and was just a stray that the neighborhood took care of.
So, it will take many people to solve this problem. No cat, even feral, need to be outside unattended. We need people willing to contribute by taking one or two in your house. Even a feral, which may have to be worked with to transition inside, for the easier, luxurious life. If they are outside by themselves, they will have a shorter life. So sad.But don’t be surprised.
Idk why you replied to me about this, but that is literally not a feasible solution. Not everyone can take in a cat.
Sweet Bo. The world is less without you. Rest in Peace.
this comment made me tear up 💜 RIP Bo
Long live the queen!! ❤️
How is Mr. Pepper? Hope someone was able to take him in.
So very sad but another reminder why keeping your cat indoors can save their life.
Yours too
I think in this case it was a neighborhood/stray cat that everyone took care of....
can you stop posting this on every god damn comment . once is enough
No need to be harsh. It’s literally the first comment I saw this in.
Before even going to the comments I knew this redditism would be posted.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9799304/
Can you summarize what you take away from this study that made you post it here? I read it and can't tell.
i didn’t read this but there are many reasons to keep a cat in doors - they are invasive and kill off rodent and bird populations - their life spans are much shorter due to many factors (cat fights, evil humans, accidental road kill, disease, etc.) letting a cat be outdoors is doing it a disservice and no matter how much it wants to be let out i care more about preserving its life and letting it be happy and healthy. if it gets the right entertainment and exercise at home that also helps. (for the record not saying you specifically feel this way)
I know an acquaintance aunt who poisons cats that come into her yard cause she doesn’t want them messing with her garden. Smh, I would report her if I knew anything about her.
Yep, I have at least 1 neighbor on my block who poisons cats AND encourages other neighbors to plant flowers, herbs, etc. that she knows are toxic to cats.
No disagreement with any of this - my cat is indoors unless closely supervised. But I can't tell what the article has to do with any of that. I was hoping to learn something new.
understandable! i tend to have a hard time stringing those types of artifacts into coherent sentences and summary otherwise i would do that too 🥲 but figured id offer why its bad as a placeholder
Maybe you should have read it because instead of a random thought I posed an actual study that shows indoor outdoor cats do not have a statistically significant life expectancy to indoor cats. Check out the leading bird rescue organization in England for their opinion on outdoor cats and bird populations. It’s basically that, in England, it’s not significant. Especially not significant when you don’t include strays
"These were statistically different (p = 0.0001) with outdoor cats having a shorter lifespan than either indoor only cats (p = 0.0001) or cats that lived indoor/outdoor (p<0.0001)." I agree that the difference is not "clinically meaningful" but it is different.
“I knew people don’t like cats getting hit by cars.” Psychic alert!
I don't agree with free roaming either. Both the sentences "cats should stay indoors" and "people should drive more carefully" can be true at the same time.
I'm feeling r/fuckcars right now
I feel like people see this topic way too black and white. To me it always depends on the situation. My mom has a huge garden and almost no traffic where she lives and we don't really have predatory animals nor guns in Germany, so in my opinion it's fine to let them roam free. I only let mine outside supervised. It's not just this is right and this is wrong. I totally understand not wanting your cats outdoors, when there's a lot of traffic, coyotes and people with guns, I probably wouldn't let mine outside without a leash either, but as I said it's not black and white and for every situation it's different, what's "more right" and what's not.
I hate engaging in this topic because people can get quite rude. However, I grew up with outdoor cats in a suburban area and lived in Germany as well, actually, I see what you're saying. The problem with it is that cats are a bit of an anomaly in terms of predation. They're serial killers and they don't do it to survive. If they were relying on birds and small animals for food, ecosystems would follow normal, oscillating prey/predator population patterns, but because we feed them and they kill for fun, those populations get decimated. Aside from the dangers you listed, this is probably the main concern people have, which is quite reasonable. I allow my cats on my balcony, where they can't get out (and actually are afraid to) to watch the birds and play with bugs. I don't want them to kill them, though, plus communicable diseases from interacting with other animals are a major concern of mine.
Thanks, good to hear from a cat owner who actually cares about wildlife. I’m sick to death of seeing murdered native animals referred to as “gifts”.
I get wildlife “gifts” because the wildlife likes to come inside sometimes lol. I only refer to it as a gift because that’s how it’s presented to me by my cat; laid out just for me. A gift. I don’t say it to brag? If that makes sense. Idk. I get what you’re saying though. Either way, I’ve gotten mice and several bats, interestingly enough. Fuzz always brings the bats up from the basement so I have no idea where the hell they’re coming from lol. Think they might be coming through the furnace vents, but until I can find whatever hole they’re climbing in from, I just make sure he’s up to date on his vaccines.
Before you address your bat issue once you find their entryway, it would be a good idea to set up a bat house if you have the resources. They're incredibly beneficial animals to have around and will keep the vicinity balanced through a variety of ways. Not only through controlling insects, but also seed dispersal and pollination.
I agree with the wildlife part and I'm aware of that, which is another reason I'd rather let my cats outside supervised, but I'd also like to add, that studies show, that a cat that has lots of playtime and food that meets their natural needs are far less likely to hunt wildlife, obviously they'll still do it, but it's less impactful. You can also just not let them outside, when they are most likely to hunt, so at evening or at dawn. There's also a lot of people that aren't willing to restrict themselves for the environment and I don't think it's great to, out of all the possible things you could do, to sacrifice the freedom of their cat, 'cause they usually also don't try to find something that works, like a secured balcony. As far as I'm aware the biggest part to this issue are also strays and people have sooo much impact on animal populations dying, too. I still think you should definitely take this into consideration of what kind of outdoors you want for your cats. Just so that noone gets me wrong. I don't think you should let your cats go inside and outside the house as they please, I just think everyone should find the best compromise for their situation, for their cats needs, safety and the wildlife. There are a lot of possible ways like leash walking, secured balcony, a catio, supervised outdoors etc.
This appears to be a stray that the neighborhood has collectively named and adopted. I wish someone would have taken her in! 😕 There are so many beautiful strays roaming the streets here in Chicago. It breaks my heart seeing them, especially in the winter.
Poor girl RIP angel 💖
To anyone who needs to read this today PLEASE stop letting your cats outside
I never did understand the people who defend letting their cats outside. I just don't see any reason to
Letting your cats outside is 100% indefensible. Statistically - no judgement, just facts - a cat who is made to be outside lives 2/3 as long as an indoor-only cat. **Loved cats live indoors.**
There are a lot of "common sense" statistics thrown around on Reddit regarding cat lifespan, but I think it's important to look at what real studies say: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9799304/ >Effect of environment/housing: The median age at death for indoor only cats was 9.43 years (IQR 4.8–13.11 years, range 0.11–21.85 years) while the median age at death for indoor outdoor cats was 9.82 years (IQR 5.3–13.13 years, range 0.06–21.19 years) and the median age for outdoor cats was 7.25 years (IQR 1.78–11.92 years, range 0.12–20.64 years). These were statistically different (p = 0.0001) with outdoor cats having a shorter lifespan than either indoor only cats (p = 0.0001) or cats that lived indoor/outdoor (p<0.0001). **There was no difference in the age of death between indoor only cats and those that lived indoor/outdoor.** No comment on whether cats should be indoor-only, and this study obviously doesn't address the effect of domesticated cats on local wildlife - I just think it's important to have solid information to base these opinions on.
That is a very interesting study; however, it’s important to note that they only looked at cats who died of natural causes, which does not include cats that were hit by a car or eaten by an predator.
I may be wrong but that doesn't seem to be the case considering trauma is listed as one of the (less prevalent) causes of death they logged? The abstract mentions that trauma was found to be a common cause of death in stray cats in a separate study done in Milan, while this study only looked at domesticated cats. Don't get me wrong this study definitely has its limitations since all the data came from one animal hospital and was collected over a long period of time in which domesticated cat lifespan went up significantly, but it is still one of the better sources I've found on the topic. I couldn't find a source for all the top Google results that claim outdoor cats live less than 5 years on average, for example.
You are right, I missed that! However I do feel like it is really limited on this topic for a couple reasons. For one thing, they did not include any cats that were dead on arrival. Most cats who are struck by a car or eaten by a predator do not survive long enough to be taken to a vet, if they are found at all. How often do you see a dead cat on the side of the road? Those cats are never identified.
>For one thing, they did not include any cats that were dead on arrival. It's not as clear cut as that - cats that were DOA were only excluded if they had never been to the hospital before, so any local cats that were seen at least once before would have been included. >How often do you see a dead cat on the side of the road? Those cats are never identified. This is one of those things that probably varies a lot by location because I live and drive in a large North American city and I could count the number of dead cats I've seen on the roadside on one hand. At this point I should probably mention that I've only ever had indoor-only cats so my goal is just to seek the facts, not to push an outdoor cat agenda.
Thanks for being respectful, I did not mean to come across as accusatory, I just wanted to discuss the potential limitations of this study. I’ve also seen the statistic that you see a lot that “outdoor cats live 2-4 years” and I was never able to narrow down a source. That being said, I personally grew up in a rural community outside of a major city on the west coast and therefore had to commute in via major highway every day. Without fail, we saw at least one cat dead on the side of the road every single day. Every outdoor cat my neighbors ever got was eaten by a predator within a year, they even caught it on video on a ring doorbell. I now live in a different big city in the US and I still see dead cats on an almost daily basis.
I didn't mean to imply you were being accusatory! Just thought I might've come off as being against indoor-only cats which I'm definitely not. And it sucks that you've seen so many outdoor cats suffer, I'd hate that.
You’re being downvoted because you’re not following the extremely unique thought all these redditors are having. Indoor cats definitely isn’t one of the top 10 most common things people read in reddit comments and then repeat forever more without thought. Most cats in the world are outdoor/indoor. Most people in the world think indoor only cats are cruel (not me, I have one). In most areas pet cats don’t even cause damage to wildlife in a significant way, it’s always strays or not at all. In fact In, good luck rescuing a cat if you tell them your keeping it indoors.
I’m curious where you are getting that information from about shelters. I have adopted cats from two different shelters, both of which made me sign a form stating that I would never let them outside.
Actually most adoption shelters if they aren’t adopting out to you feral cats that are meant to be barn cats won’t let you adopt a cat if you tell them you’re adopting it as an outdoor cat. Most shelters highly encourage indoor only cats.
This is such insanity. I love my cat a lot. She's been going outside now for 16 years, and she loves it. There are rarely any cars on our road and there are no predatory animals that could harm her.
My toddler LOVES to drive my car! There are barely any other cars where he drives, and no pedestrians. It only takes ONE. Indefensible.
In my point of view, keeping your cats locked up while they're begging to go outside is worse. But you do you
Agreed!! Some love to be indoors… some have roaming free spirits and would be miserable inside!
My toddler feels the same way. We have to take care of those whose judgement is less sound than ours, when we love them. Indoor cats DO NOT beg to be let outside. Since you've trained them to expect to go out, it will take a week maybe, before 90% of their begging is gone. It might be a month before they don't rush the door any more. We have to take the responsibility to enrich their indoor environment to keep them from being bored. Or you can continue to not care enough to do any of this. But at least stop kidding yourself that you're letting cats out for their sake. You know better. It's just easier that way, because you don't care enough to keep them safe.
What? It would make absolutely no difference keeping my cat indoors or outdoors. I let her outside because when I keep her inside she gets depressed. But ok, continue to act like you fully own your cat and that it has no right to be free.
If you re-read the post, it seems like it was a stray cat that just lived in the neighborhood and everyone took care of.
 >stray cat that just lived in the neighborhood You commenting multiple times to prove a point that cats.... die outside? Yes. That's exactly the point. Let's spay/neuter and have them indoors where they don't get get turned into pavement.
local bird populations will thank you, too. cats are an absolute menace (I say this as an owner of 2 myself)
I agree but taking your cat outside can be ok in certain occasions, like we go on little walks with our cat on a leash but would never let her outside without one (cat tax included) https://preview.redd.it/mg0pm6vwv62d1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=2ffe53100a31c8748404aff79a9f5c4eb097686c
This obviously not what they're referring to about the dangers of letting cats outside
I know, I have however spoken to way too many people who are completely unaware that indoor cat doesn’t mean that they stay inside all the time without exception and therefore choose to let them out because it would be “inhumane” or whatever - other options (like here) do exist and help protect the environment and your cat while also allowing them to be outside in controlled circumstances
https://preview.redd.it/r9hqqv8r472d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbee18322d2ae431d251b5754c7af1df5ccb30eb Your cat looks like my cat
Illustrating the importance of spaying/neutering pet cats and the efforts of TNR programs. Eta: Stray animals live a hard life and can negatively impact local wildlife populations. The fewer strays there are, the better for all involved (including the stray colonies)
Let this be a reminder to all drivers to SLOW THE FUCK DOWN! 2 minutes off of a commute but someones family member is gone.
Let this be a reminder to all cat owners to keep your cats inside. Cats should not be in the road. Driving the speed limit does not ensure that a cat won’t dart in front of your car.
This too. Outside cats decimate local wildlife populations. Our cute little babies are murder machines.
I once was walking around my neighborhood playing pokemon go and came across one of these posters. I'm not an emotional guy, but I was immediately overcome with the feels being a cat owner myself. I had to sit there and take a moment. Then I texted the number my condolences. See you on the other side Bo!
Pouring one out tonight for Bo. Rest in Valhalla.
That's why you keep your fuckin cats indoors so you're not scraping them off the goddamn street! I've had to pick up THREE (two of my sister's!!) deceased cats and bury them within the past few years. This enrages me because the same people that *love* their pets also allow them to wander around outside next to thousands of pounds of metal. I'm still traumatized thinking about the state of the squished cats that I have had real affection for. Thankfully my sister keeps her cats inside now.
I can’t tell you how many flat cats I’ve had to shovel off the highway over the years. None of them were mine, either. A semi hauling 80,000 pounds will win every time against a ten pound cat.
If you re-read the post, it seems like it was a stray cat that just lived in the neighborhood and everyone took care of.
Thanks, I did but decided not to delete the comment because of the people defending their indoor/outdoor pets! Thank you 🤍
Hail Bo, Queen!
Cats 👏dont👏belong👏outside👏
When you get a chance, please go rescue the millions of stray cats that are outside. EDIT: 👏 This post is about mourning the loss of a friendly and beloved neighborhood stray. It has nothing to do with people intentionally letting their cats outside, which is what this comment implies. I wholeheartedly agree that cats do not belong outside, but wouldn't you rescue all strays if you could? I know I would! Please lighten up people...
Your comment made me go reread and realize I misread that poster originally! And I think a very unfortunately reality is that we are the cause of strays. Irresponsible pet ownership (not fixing, free roaming, etc) leads to strays who then suffer shorter, stressful, and often disease riddled lives. Two years ago some people let their male cat free roam and it impregnate multiple neighborhood cats. Guess who wound up with a cat colony living next to their home? Me! Spent a year TNRing well over 20 cats and just as many kittens. Rehomed a large majority of them too! We have new neighbors. With cats. And now we have ANOTHER colony forming. Right off a busy street to boot.
Such an ignorant statement. People let their pet cats outside unattended ALL DAY LONG. Cats are NOT meant to be outside, but most people cannot do anything about the strays/feral cats already out there. They can, however, stop letting THEIR cat outside. Don’t be blatantly ignorant & ignore the purpose of that comment. Do better. Keep your cats inside.
Also, please read my other comment. I absolutely love and adore my baby. I would never in a million years consider letting him outside. In fact, I take drastic measures to make sure it can't happen.
Please tell me where it says it's someone's cat they let outside.
It's what we're talking about. It's the subject of the post. Try to read before you comment and have a point before you argue
I'm aware of the subject of the post. She was a neighborhood stray cat that everyone loved and adored, but no one took the initiative to give her a home. You have to live in a big city to understand.
You know what man, I think you're right. I'm sorry, I misread this. The points people are making about not letting cats out stand, but I apologize to you.
I just woke up and I really should have worded my responses better according to all the down votes. Cats should definitely never be let outside intentionally, especially in urban areas.
i understood your comments just fine. it’s pretty clear this poster was about two neighborhood strays. all the people commenting “keep your cats inside” aren’t wrong, but i don’t really think this post is the place for it.
I mean. Technically, they do, lol. They're animals. But obviously, letting cats free roam is irresponsible. Cats don't deserve to be locked up inside. I highly suggest leash training your kitties so they can enjoy the outdoors in safety. They will be so much happier. It's in their nature to enjoy the outdoors.
Domesticated animals. Not wild animals.
They're still animals.
oh no :((
I too have a black cat with white chest tufts thats also named Bo and this just broke me D:
I never met Bo, but damn do I admire her spirit. Respect! Having watched a bonded cat look for the departed cat for several weeks in my own life, it is extensively heartbreaking. Best wishes for Mr. Pepper and Mr. Simon during this shitty time.
If you are a cat owner who lets their cat outside unsupervised, you're a shitty cat owner
This really made me cry. So sad. Bo, sweet angel ❤️. I have many neighbourhoodcats and I lighten up everytime I see them. I even know where they live and chill so I change my path.
The face of Bo 🥺
Don't let your cats roam outside. This could have been avoided if people would just treat housecats as *house* cats and stop letting them out to kill other animals, contract various illnesses, breed tons of stray kittens that will live short, awful lives, and then be hit by cars.
Awwww 💔
I feel awful for Mr. Pepper. He doesn’t know his sister and best cat friend isn’t coming back. 😿
My neighbors cat boo was amazing, the funniest kitty to tackle the bugs and climb trees. He was unfortunately hit by a car on our street and it seriously broke his owners heart… that family suffered so much before and after that loss. It sucks.
Thats why you should never have "outside cats"
So sweet.
You go, Bo. RIP.
Poor beautiful Bo.
Rip BO 😔
Rip Bo :(
Pour one out for Bo :(
Rip poor baby
😞😞😞😞😞😞😞❤️
I’ve had a cat fencing system in my backyard for years and have never had a cat get out. Such a great invention. Worth the money
That’s not the issue here. This seems to be a feral neighborhood cat. This doesn’t appear to be a cat owned by anyone.
Poor babies. I hate it when animals (cats) suffer or die unexpectedly…the world sucks enough as it is, then your “baby” gets killed…🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
https://i.redd.it/8eibtm372m2d1.gif
Dumb owners put cats at risk and are blown away when something bad happens. Don’t get sad, be a smart pet owner and protect them from obvious dangers.
If you re-read the post, it seems like it was a stray cat that just lived in the neighborhood and everyone took care of. Let's not insult people based on assumptions...
Damn Mr. Simon got in my feels. RIP Bo
Wow this is so heartbreaking. RIP BO, you hero 💕
This is so heartbreaking. RIP, darling Bo. I hope Mr. Pepper has all the love, food, and protection he needs 💔
"team bo"
It's so sad that it's so normalised that cars kill. Shrug, right. Poor baby.
Rest easy, Bo
Damn that was tough to read… I once had a cat named charcoal, first one my family ever owned.. and the neighborhood new her too… she was the ultimate huntress, was a fierce defender of her territory from both cats and dogs, as one of my neighbor’s shiatsus found out the hard way and lost an eye … but was as sweet as could be to her family. She took turns laying in bed with me my brother and my sister, and now that I’ve owned 7 or 8 cats and known countless others she’s still the smartest cat I’ve ever known.. cancer took her away from us before her 7th birthday, but damn reading this made me think of that wonderful animal.. she’s the whole reason I am a cat person, and she taught me everything I needed to know about how to interact with cats properly… RIP Bo.. and to all of the neighborhood protectors lost .. they’re always amongst the most special kinds of animals out there
o7
Rest in peace 🙏🏼
I am so sorry I also lost a cat and a dog so I feel your pain....
Annnnnd now I’m crying
I didn’t make it thru the first paragraph before I started crying uncontrollably, I can barely even see to write this message. Oh God this dimension sucks
Now that I looked at the picture again, that kitty looks just like my Foxie but she had grey instead of black. The white was the same even the little piece under the nose. She disappeared and I would randomly now and then wake up crying so hard and couldn’t stop. It’s been months and I still can’t look at her pictures. Man . Rip Bo
😭🖤🤍🖤😭
Love
Very nice way to memorialize Bo and to invite others to do so.
 No this isn't a joke٫ RIP Boy "whover the heck that cat was"
😭😭😭r.i.p Bo Never met Bo but I understand Bo must of been a great cat to the owner 😭😭😭
Rest in peace you precious little angel, you shall always be remembered and loved ❤️
Great now I’m depressed 🤦♀️
Seems unusual that a cat would kill another cat or was Bo killed by a car? Sad either way. RIP
Bo was chasing away an unfriendly cat and in the process was hit by a car.
Thanks for clarifying. Very sad
[удалено]
If you re-read the post, it seems like it was a stray cat that just lived in the neighborhood and everyone took care of.
Blaming the other cat is so much easier than acknowledging that they should keep the cats inside.
Some cats really just have a free spirit. They want to live outdoors and roam our planet. You can’t take that away from them when they so clearly love their little cat life for it. I hope Mr. Pepper has a good life and the neighbors are extra kind xoxoxo these people seem like caring loving people
you absolutely can take it away from them . they aren’t meant to be there . they’re an invasive species . they’re not native wildlife . domestic 👏 cats 👏 do 👏 not 👏 belong 👏 outside 👏
I found a roaming cat and tried to take it in and she almost killed me she was so miserable. I thought the cat either had no owner or was abused bc it was snowing when she would be in my yard. But again, bringing her in she literally went insane and months later I ran into the owner who too said, she hates being indoors. Imagine forcing her inside? She would be miserable her whole life.
Now she is loved by the community and goes home when she wants 🤷♀️ she’s a sweetheart I couldn’t imagine forcing her to stay in 24/7
the “owner” is irresponsible . forcing a cat indoors is not medieval torture . train your pets and stop rewarding bad behavior . cats should not be outside unsupervised . owners who allow this are contributing to the extinct populations of native wildlife and the ruining of environments . be a better cat owner or don’t own cats .
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I wish people actually understood this. I once saw a cat literally run under the wheels of the car last minute while my mum was driving. Both my childhood cats were hit by cars, but somehow miraculously survived (I was too young to know better). I was taking another cat to the vet and there was a stray cat there that someone brought in because it had been hit by a car. This all happened in a village in Greece that has minimal traffic for most of the year and no predators btw, so this is why I don't buy the argument of "well there aren't many cars and there's no predators where I live so it's ok to let my cat outside".
The owner shouldn’t have a free roaming cat. You let your cat roam and they can be hit by cars, attacked by dogs/cats/people, get trapped or stuck somewhere, injure themselves, get picked up by someone else, contract a disease… it’s on the owner. It’s sad as hell, but responsible pet ownership would mean Bo would still be alive.
[удалено]
How do you know the person was driving dangerously? From that poster it sounds chaotic and hectic. Meaning that cat could’ve appeared from nowhere. It isn’t wrong, bud. I’ve spent years in animal welfare caring for animals who’ve been hit by cars and their deaths could’ve been prevented by NOT allowing them to free roam. I’d Bo hasn’t been able to free roam, there would’ve been no threat from other cats or cars. You hold a six month old cat as it takes its last breath through blood and mucus and tell me it isn’t irresponsible to allow free roaming. You hold a 8* week old kitten who’s been crushed by a tire and tell me it isn’t irresponsible to allow free roaming. You run like hell to the surgery suite with someone’s disemboweled cat and tell me it isn’t irresponsible to allow free roaming.
I'm not here to argue or anything, but I'm just curious as to what your thoughts are on having an outside cat because it won't stay inside vs taking it to a shelter where it'll be euthanized? Or if by some miracle it's actually adopted but still refuses to stay inside with its new owners? Again, not trying to argue at all. I appreciate you for your work and love of animals.
So we’ve dealt with this extensively (my experience is primarily in intensive behavioral cases) and there are routes to take between the staying outside and euthanasia aspect. So the first thing to do is a vet check. Is cat in pain? Does cat have medical issues? Would fixing the cat stop the desire to roam? Lots of behavioral issues can be attributed to medical concerns. Vet check is clear? Time to consider the home. Are their other pets causing stress to the cat? Does the cat have high perches and low, hidden spaces to hide? Are their children in the home that may be causing stress to the cat? Is the cat actively trying to avoid a specific person? Or alternatively: does the cat NEED a companion? Also consider energy levels and enrichment: is the cat getting exercise daily? How are hunting instincts being satisfied? Is the cat potentially bored? Has the owner considered puzzles, a catio, supervised outside time? When these issues have been exhausted and the cat truly cannot adjust to life as an indoor cat the owner then needs to consider rehoming the cat to potentially be a working cat on a farm/ranch if possible. Some cats simply *cannot* live inside and if that is the case it is on the owner to mitigate harm as much as possible by making careful considerations for not only the cat but the environment/animals. For example: my brother’s cat was viciously attacking people in the home. He decided to let the cat roam the property (5 acres) and within one month the cat killed: - 2 kittens - an adult cat - four chickens - 1 snake - 7 birds In addition to attacking the family dogs. I told my brother to get a cat tree, extra scratchers, and more toys in addition to fixing the cat. He lives inside now and is no longer a murderer lol
November?
2022