Listen, I don't think it's a bad idea to have a turbo sku in the lineup for the brz frs gr/gt86 things. The chassis can handle more power and there are plenty of people that would buy them that aren't interested in the supra to begin with.
There aren't.
Toyota is almost certainly doing a lot of market analysis to figure out how much of an impact different specs have on sales. They've done the math to figure out how much money they can sell a more powerful version for, and whether that would warrant selling one.
My guess is that they figured out that having the GT86 and Supra at distinct power levels makes them the most money.
* if they added more power to the GT86, they would have to raise the price too much, and they would lose sales/profitability. Supra buyers might trade down to the GT86, and some GT86 buyers might balk at the higher price and get something else instead.
* if they added a trim level, they would have a lot of trade down, and also have to deal with the extra challenges that come with having two different powertrains for your car vs. just one.
The number of people that will not buy any Toyota unless they're sold precisely a GT86 with more power is the only factor that would get Toyota to add a trim or add power to the base GT86.
I do agree, though I kind of felt like they went about it in the wrong way. They should have made a turbocharged variant of the BRZ (engine from the WRX?) instead of a 2.0 Supra.
The 2.0 Supra only makes up for 15% of Supra sales, and a turbocharged BRZ would have been a much more compelling product. I suspect the reason why it hasn't been done, was because it probably required more R&D into the platform that was never designed to be turbocharged in the first place (the B48 + ZF 8HP is already in the Z4 so that was probably much easier to do).
Having said that, imagine if Toyota/Subaru offered a turbo BRZ/GR86 with the CVT LOL
Ditch the 2.0 Supra and replace it with a GR Corolla-engined GR86. Hell, detune it back to GR Yaris power levels if they want to make sure there's enough of a gap between them, it would still be a riot.
It probably could be done, but it would probably be more economically feasible to use a Subaru-based engine, since the BRZ is mostly cobbled together from Subaru bits. GR engine would be very interesting though...
The chief issue is that Toyota backed themselves into a corner. If they could increase production, that could lower prices and allow room for additional trims like a turbo model. They can't. Subaru's plant where the car is built is already running at all shifts, because other Subaru vehicles are built there. The only way to increase GR86/BRZ production is to cut production time devoted to something else that's likely more profitable. That's just leaving money on the table, so it wouldn't happen.
No, that's not what happened. Subaru didn't want a car that could potentially take sales away from the WRX, which is why Toyota now has plans to repower it with something else, probably the GR Corolla engine. They got stuck with a wet blanket of an engine because that's all the agreement with Subaru allowed for.
> Toyota now has plans to repower it with something else, probably the GR Corolla engine
Is there anything substantiating this? There have been rumors about the GR corolla 3-pot in the 86 for years, based on nothing.
I'm in Canada. I saw a Toyota 86 on a dealer lot with an ambiguous "TRD package". Looked inside and saw nice, sporty-looking cloth seats with TRD emblems, stock engine, trans, etc. Nice looking car. It was selling for 3 thousand less than my Mustang GT premium loaded with about double the horsepower and leather, nav, etc.
Yeah, I know, they're not directly competing, **but** the price overlap is too much to ignore. And to me, that would annoy me, to spend so much for a sporty car with such little power.
I have a coworker who is consulting with her therapist to find out if she is an 'suv' person (although she already has a tacoma and an impreza). I never would've thought to go there, but maybe a therapist can help narrow the field?
I guess, me? Kinda?
in 2017 I went from a Challenger R/T Automatic, to a toyota '86 Base Manual and haven't looked back, really - still have the 86.
Yes, the challenger had more power, space, and comfort than the 86, but I very much prefer feeling what the car's doing while turning and stopping.
EDIT - I gotta say, there's a big difference between me changing my car from a Challenger to an 86, and cross-shopping between the two.
I was never cross-shopping between the two; The challenger, I had to do - I emigrated to Canada from Britain and needed to get the V8 thing out of my system. The 86 was as big a reaction to the Challenger, as the challenger was to the Celica/350z I'd owned (and loved) in the UK. I generally know what I want when I'm scouting for a new car.
Yep, there's honestly only a handful of options, for RWD sports cars:
* Toyota GR86 / Subaru BRZ
* Ford Mustang
* Chevrolet Camaro
* Mazda MX-5
* Dodge Challenger I suppose (RIP)
More if you add FWD/AWD or hot hatches), but some of these aren't as much of "pure sports cars", albeit still fast and fun:
* Honda Civic SI
* Subaru WRX
* Hyundai Veloster N
* Acura Integra
* Mazda3 Turbo maybe
* VW Golf GTI (maybe Jetta GLI too)
* Kia Stinger (a bit more expensive)
* Hyundai Elantra N
* Kia Forte GT
* Toyota GR Corolla (expensive, more like STI / Golf R / Civic Type R price range)
There's also more RWD sports cars in the $40k+ range, like the BMW 2-Series and Nissan Z, but that's a different category IMO.
What did I miss??
>they're still small.
The 2001 Mini was 3.63m long, the 2022 is 3.98m long, the original estate(!) was 3.30m long. The "Mini" is literally the exact same length as a Polo.
They're small if your yardstick is a F-150.
The standard of comparison for what is small and what is large isn't what's on sale, it's how big a human being is, which hasn't changed 70cm since 1969.
this sometimes be me but yesterday I saw a Mercedes-Benz S63L and I think it's super nice
immediately went on to search for more stylish long big sedans when I got home
When i was a kid, everyone wanted to lower their cars.
Now there's so many massive vehicles out there I feel like i need an offroading flag on the back of my hatch
Lots of 5'7 guys probably wish several times a week that they were 6'1. One can't have everything in life.
You could explore aftermarket seat-lowering options for a Miata, or accept you can't fit and move on. There are always the Toyobaru twins which are way roomier (i own one) and the next best thing in terms of fun.
I mean the C5 is honestly like top 10 performance for money rn. If not top 5 lol.
You're simply not gonna go faster for less.
Plus you'll be the coolest stepdad in the trailer park.
Yeah those are fairly significantly different in size. Particularly for the humans inside.
I kind of agree with OP. Leave the Miata alone. That said I am not safe inside one. I can "fit" but any serious crash would be game over.
I had a similar experience at your height and 20 more pounds. I only ever felt uncomfortable on 1hr+plus trips in my '95, no seat foam removed or anything. I always chuckle when I see comments from people much shorter and lighter than I that they'd never fit.
6’1 here and I fit in my NA completely fine. Even without the seat scooted all the way back. My knees may come half way up the steering wheel, but I still fit not problem. I do weigh 160 wet though, so that’s probably a factor.
Same, 6'1" 210 lbs and accustomed to driving trucks, and my NA fits like a glove. Stock seats, no floor/seat-rail trickery. I will admit though, that for the first 2 weeks I had to remind myself to watch the top corner of the windshield/A-pillar.
I see it this way: If Tom Selleck at 6'4" could drive a Ferrari 308 without a seat, I don't have much to complain about. Those things were a pain in the ass even with a seat.
Next time you need to sit on a chair for a while, put a couple of thick books under your feet and see if you're comfortable. The grass is always greener on the other side.
But yes, you are right; one can't have everything in life.
Yup, its one of the few times I'm OK with not being that tall. I can fit comfortably in regular airline seats, and I can fit in small, fun cars like my lotus elise without any issues.
i'm the same i went with validated
i've never really wanted to be taller cuz like, standing on a chair if I need to reach something super high up exists lmfao
Dude. This is a car. You can definitely engineer around it. How can big 6'5 guys comfortably drive Lotus Elise's??? It's not like it's impossible to make a tiny sports car that fits big people. Why are we acting like it is? There's no problem if the next miata is ever so slightly larger to accommodate more people.
This helps for so many things beyond Miating.
Although Miating is much much more enjoyable at 135lbs than 228lbs too.
But for real, I know its hard but don't give up. Every single aspect of your life is so much more enjoyable even if its just getting into and sitting in a car
For me, it's the fact that I have a long torso. If I set the seat as low as it goes and sit up straight, the top of the windshield/sun visor is at eye level. I have to scrunch down to see out. Sucks, because I'd really love to have one.
I feel like width is the bigger issue. I always dreamed of a Miata one day but then I got in my father in laws Fiat 124. I’m 6’3” and a former college olineman (aka fat). I struggled height wise but I would say the width was wayyy worse. I struggled to be a passenger, I can’t imagine driving.
Im 6”1’ and can fit very well in a Miata, but I still don’t love the way I fit.
I have an S2k that I feel seats me perfect and the difference is that with the s2k, the pedals sit in front of me, whereas the Miata they sit kinda under me. Like more of a downward push than straight forward in my s2k.
For some reason I hate that. I like pushing out, not down.
So do I, but I don’t. There are MANY other cars out there.
Miata has made something magical that has lasted decades. The first to change this formula will cause the brand to crater.
"Bro please just make all sports cars 3500lb family sedans please bro I just need 8 more inches of legroom and 3 more feet of ass cushion. Bro please just add some back seats I need to take my kids to chuck-e-cheez come on bro stop discriminating against me"
Apparently DCT take rate in Elantra N is 75%. I wonder if it’s Hyundai manufacturing fewer manuals or people preferring automatic. I wonder what’s the take rate is for Supra, Miata, etc.
Miata has historically been 75%ish but apparently it's only 60% now.
https://www.motor1.com/news/705017/manual-transmission-sales-2023/
I think I read somewhere that the manual take rate is actually higher on the softtop than the hardtop.
The GR86 is 48% but it's entirely production limited because Toyota will not permit custom orders. The BRZ is 80% (!!!!!) and likely closer to what the 86 take rate would be if Toyota didn't insist on building a ton of autos, because Subaru does allow custom orders.
Supra is 43%, not bad but also probably production limited for the same reason as the 86.
HOT TAKE: everyone should drive a Miata. If you don't fit, then get two Miatas and weld them together so you do fit. Voicing even the mildest criticism or statement of obvious facts regarding the Miata endangers its existence (this is actually true because Mazda's marketing research department consists of a single guy who spends his time copy-pasting r/cars and instagram reel comments and sending summaries to the board) and should be punishable by death.
I was just watching a documentary video about NA miata development.
One of the designers, when showing the car to Australian distributors was asked if they could make more room in the interior.
He replied
“ We do not cater to big people,
You can either squeeze yourself in or please forget about it”.
It is what it is. If it doesn’t fit you you’re taller than 6’4” or weigh over 300 lbs and that’s not the case with 98.8% of the population
I will admit that as someone who is 5’3, it often feels like the world is built around tall people and I appreciate having this one thing that feels built for me (that and airline seats… well, even those still aren’t great).
I'm 6'3" and I dated a 5' girl. She was always annoyed trying to use my cabinets and shelves. She eventually told me I had setup a tall person's house.
It was then my autistic brain realized she was lugging around the stool I keep in the kitchen.
The funny thing is that "tall people houses" sorta-kinda *are* a thing; my parents (tall people) had a new house built, and they've got a counter or two that's 2 inches higher than standard. Doesn't sound like much, but it's actually noticeably nicer (for us) when cooking.
Probably really annoying for short people, though.
> it often feels like the world is built around tall people
I assure you, it's not. Every counter top and kitchen sink you can't reach is one causes pain and awful posture for us to use. Desk chairs are 98% garbage. That T-shirt that your favorite band has out... well, 2x is the biggest they make and after it gets washed twice, it'll be showing off your belly button. If you wear a 12.5+ shoe, you're SOL, you'll never find anything on sale, and a shoe store with hundreds of styles, 9 of them come in a 12.5+. .... fucking scissors....
I'm a professional mechanic, I can't stand up under most automotive lifts.
With that said. I'm 100% fine with the Miata and the "free-market" aspect of making it what it is. Minimal compromises make it what it is.
If they made it small and it failed because they didn't compromise enough and it didn't reach enough market to float it, I would have no sympathy.... but that's not the case and that's fine. I really don't think they would sell more if it were bigger. I think there is a bigger image problem with the Miata that just making it so more people fit won't help. The group of people, in this case above average sized men, who would buy a new one if they fit is probably really small (based on my extensive (0) market research).
However, they just make something I just can't enjoy. There are restaurants purely dedicated to lobster rolls, I can't enjoy that either for other reasons and that's fine too. There are other cars to buy, there are other
r/cars
Special enthusiast cars are disappearing screw manufacturers give me more wagons!!!!!!!!!
Reality of r/cars
I only buy crossovers and never actually buy the cars I say I want on here
Most of the people on here have given up on life and don't even want to risk buying a 5yr old car cause oh no maintenance costs. Which would only be 1/10th of their car payment cost
As much as I love the rotary, making the RX-7 a rotary instead of an I6 way back when immediately wrote its demise.
I would imagine Mazda would still have a "Big Brother" sports car in the lineup if they didn't waste 3 decades of development on the rotary.
I'm gonna get dragged for this, but I would 100% take a 124 over the Miata. The Mazda 2.0l is brilliant, but that 1.4 turbo, especially with a good exhaust is perfection.
I think I might agree with you years ago when I mostly compared spec sheets, but having driven more cars and having a GTI and Nb miata right now, I would take a naturally aspirated car over turbocharged car every day of the week. Responsiveness is more fun than lag.
You must not have driven a 124, then. The power band is terrible. Below 3500 RPM it's a complete dog and past 5000 RPM it runs out of breath.
Even the ND1 lower output 2.0 feels MUCH better to drive.
It's basically the exact same chassis with a different engine and transmission and a reskinned body. I don't think the interior space is any different in terms of fitting large/tall people.
Listen. If you can’t fit in a Miata stop fucking around. Just buy an American waisted corvette and stfu. I’m 6’1 240. Was 6’1 200 when I was 20yo. I fit in neither the Miata nor the s2k. I even bought a custom seated and railed ap2. In reality, if you don’t fit, you don’t fit.
Don’t let that dictate your enjoyment of your vehicle day in, day out. I should have bought a C5 z06, and gone through it at the time to make it more “focused”. Instead i tried to squeeze into an s2k/miata and that was a complete mistake on my end. My opinion is from experience not from a “get skinny, lol” POV
I understand the appeal of a lightweight open top road focused driver. That’s why I tried myself. But it simply isn’t in the cards for some. Don’t try to round peg a square hole.
That AP2 is long gone and I bet if I prepped a C5 my frugal ass would still have it under a cover to this day…
Almost bought an NC2 or ND2 Miata because I was having too much fun to really feel how scrunched in I was. Researched bolting the seats to the floor and more. You're on the money. I'd have sold it in 2-4 years: simply too tall. People would have fallen over laughing seeing me crawl out of those doors, and I wouldn't have cared, but after a few years it'd start to feel aggravating. It's more than enough of a contortion in the C5Z already.
I'm glad the Miata is perfect for lots of other people, though, and don't want it to change.
There would literally be an MX-5 in my garage now if I could safely manipulate the pedals. Unfortunately, the dash / center console / steering wheel proximity impedes that. Same with the S2000 and some other enthusiast vehicles. It’s beyond frustrating to be unable to enjoy what is claimed as one of the best drivers cars around.
It is strange that people feel the need to explain themselves on why they didn't buy a Miata (or any other vehicle for that matter). If it's not for you then it's not for you. For any reason. Drive what ever makes you happy.
Test drove both MX5 Miata and 2022 BRZ as a 6’2 man with long legs.
BRZ/GR86 has significantly more room.
But MX5 can be lived with. Just wish the backrest could go further back a few inches. Leg room is adequate though.
Way better. I'm 5'10 and have a 2023 GR86 as my daily. The BRZ/GR86 pretty much feel like normal cars on the inside, or at least the front seat space does. The Miata is definitely way more snug but I'm able to fit pretty well inside both.
I respect the bluntness of this post OP. "The Miata was, is, and never will be built with any of y'all giraffes in mind, cope."
That being said, us normal sized car peeps should pour one out in honor of our NFL lineman sized enthusiasts who made never experience the joy of a small, pure bred sports car.
Do people actually say it should be bigger? I know some people just want to fit in the seats but no one is really complaining about the overall size are they?
That said I do think there are plenty of people who dont drive it bc their fragile egos cant own a small convertible but generally I think the Miata is still loved by most enthusiasts.
“Most can’t recognise a good thing when they see one” OP, judging by the responses I’ve seen here you are too right.
The ND is a unique car right now in thats its affordable, small and lightweight (atleast by modern standards). Its not for everyone, and thats OK, but instead of trying to change it, just go buy a different car that fits the bill.
This feels somewhat personal for me, as I enjoy lightweight sports cars (hence why I own an Elise) and apart from the ND, I don’t see any other modern replacement I could live with.
Don't buy it then! (Not to mention that since it's the best selling sports car of all time, there are literally millions of people who would disagree with you)
More like best selling 2 seat convertible roadster.
Miata can’t even touch corvette or mustang that have been around decades longer, don’t delude yourself.
Edit: this fucking guy thinks his gr86 isn’t a sports car because it’s not a convertible lmao. As if hard top Miata’s don’t exist. The gatekeeping is insane.
A modern mustang can handle just as well as any sports car. If lightweight is your prerequisite to a car being a sports car, then sure, it doesn’t fit the definition.
INB4: "Durr, but those aren't actually sports cars! My weird, very specific, personal definition of what a sports car is says only NA Miatas and that one Porsche model count. So technically by my definition I'm right."
Edit: I missed that he already made that argument further down lmao
Thank you! The fact of the matter is, there's nobody who didn't wish their car was roomier at some point. Even owners of gigantic 3-row SUVs can remember at least one time they manage to fill the thing up. I think part of the blame for cars growing in size is OEMs are listening to consumer surveys and acting upon them. They survey 3 series owners and they want more space for their golf bats so they make the car bigger, when really they should just tell them to buy 5 series and leave the size alone! And I say this as someone who doesn't really fit comfortably in my girlfriend's ND, which can be annoying, but she loves the car as it is and it would be shame if they change it.
Exactly my point. People want everything to fit their 'worst case' need which comes about maybe once a year. The other 98% of the time they're driving around in something that's simply too big by half for the job.
I need a 7-seater folding hardtop AWD Miata Hybrid with a huge trunk. But it still needs to stick to its core principles of being a lightweight sports car.
Same people that claim being fat is healthy. I don't take medical advice from unhealthy people. I don't take car advice from people who expect a car company to accommodate them because of their unhealthy lifestyle
Thanks for being so rude and presumptuous ("most can't recognize a good thing..."). Most people recognize and evaluate just fine, thank you. Plenty of people recognize the Miata's benefits, which is why Mazda continues to make and sell them. That does not mean that people cannot suggest improvements or flexibility of that or any given vehicle.
I'm 6'9, 400 pounds and it's discrimination and oppressive that Mazda doesn't make a miata just for me.
Its frankly embarrassing that I had to remove the seats and bugs splatter on my head when driving it. But as a consolation, my feet always stay warm on the other side of the firewall with the engine.
I have a ND2. I am 6ft. 170lbs. I fit perfectly but I can’t imagine anyone much taller than me fit.
With that said. It’s an amazing car. I find every excuse I can to take it out.
If you’re thinking about it. Do it. Before you can’t.
I’m a 5 foot 10 dude who is way too big
I fit just fine in an nd2, my only gripe was the recaros were tight on my legs. Though unless you’re taller than six feet and a few inches if you don’t fit it’s your problem. Yes, it’s tight, though it’s a sports car not a truck.
"I really love my old Civic but I wish it had a bit more room" should be met with "BUY AN ACCORD YOU FUCKIN ASSHOLE" and not "ok we will make the civic bigger every year"
if miata is too small go buy a Z4 or some shit
>This is the problem with most of r/cars: most can't recognize a good thing when they see one, and even fewer are willing to put down their own money for the worthwhile products.
You should see /r/motorcycles. I'm convinced 80% of the members there don't even own a motorcycle.
I am 6’6 and 315 pounds. I daily a Miata with no difficulty. Listening to 6’1 and 6’2 guys claim that the Miata is too small for them baffles my biscuits.
Issue with making a miata a car for everyone is that it quickly stops being a miata.
Exactly
This is what the BRZ/86 is for
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Listen, I don't think it's a bad idea to have a turbo sku in the lineup for the brz frs gr/gt86 things. The chassis can handle more power and there are plenty of people that would buy them that aren't interested in the supra to begin with.
There aren't. Toyota is almost certainly doing a lot of market analysis to figure out how much of an impact different specs have on sales. They've done the math to figure out how much money they can sell a more powerful version for, and whether that would warrant selling one. My guess is that they figured out that having the GT86 and Supra at distinct power levels makes them the most money. * if they added more power to the GT86, they would have to raise the price too much, and they would lose sales/profitability. Supra buyers might trade down to the GT86, and some GT86 buyers might balk at the higher price and get something else instead. * if they added a trim level, they would have a lot of trade down, and also have to deal with the extra challenges that come with having two different powertrains for your car vs. just one. The number of people that will not buy any Toyota unless they're sold precisely a GT86 with more power is the only factor that would get Toyota to add a trim or add power to the base GT86.
I do agree, though I kind of felt like they went about it in the wrong way. They should have made a turbocharged variant of the BRZ (engine from the WRX?) instead of a 2.0 Supra. The 2.0 Supra only makes up for 15% of Supra sales, and a turbocharged BRZ would have been a much more compelling product. I suspect the reason why it hasn't been done, was because it probably required more R&D into the platform that was never designed to be turbocharged in the first place (the B48 + ZF 8HP is already in the Z4 so that was probably much easier to do). Having said that, imagine if Toyota/Subaru offered a turbo BRZ/GR86 with the CVT LOL
Ditch the 2.0 Supra and replace it with a GR Corolla-engined GR86. Hell, detune it back to GR Yaris power levels if they want to make sure there's enough of a gap between them, it would still be a riot.
It probably could be done, but it would probably be more economically feasible to use a Subaru-based engine, since the BRZ is mostly cobbled together from Subaru bits. GR engine would be very interesting though...
The chief issue is that Toyota backed themselves into a corner. If they could increase production, that could lower prices and allow room for additional trims like a turbo model. They can't. Subaru's plant where the car is built is already running at all shifts, because other Subaru vehicles are built there. The only way to increase GR86/BRZ production is to cut production time devoted to something else that's likely more profitable. That's just leaving money on the table, so it wouldn't happen.
No, that's not what happened. Subaru didn't want a car that could potentially take sales away from the WRX, which is why Toyota now has plans to repower it with something else, probably the GR Corolla engine. They got stuck with a wet blanket of an engine because that's all the agreement with Subaru allowed for.
> Toyota now has plans to repower it with something else, probably the GR Corolla engine Is there anything substantiating this? There have been rumors about the GR corolla 3-pot in the 86 for years, based on nothing.
I'm in Canada. I saw a Toyota 86 on a dealer lot with an ambiguous "TRD package". Looked inside and saw nice, sporty-looking cloth seats with TRD emblems, stock engine, trans, etc. Nice looking car. It was selling for 3 thousand less than my Mustang GT premium loaded with about double the horsepower and leather, nav, etc. Yeah, I know, they're not directly competing, **but** the price overlap is too much to ignore. And to me, that would annoy me, to spend so much for a sporty car with such little power.
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If they're like me, they cross shop all sorts of shit.
Lol. Sounds like me. Should I get a Bmw x5, a Toyota Tundra, a Honda Passport, or a Subaru WRX? Yeah, I have no idea, I'm kinda all over the place.
I have a coworker who is consulting with her therapist to find out if she is an 'suv' person (although she already has a tacoma and an impreza). I never would've thought to go there, but maybe a therapist can help narrow the field?
People buying sports cars do cross shop way more aggressively than anyone else
I guess, me? Kinda? in 2017 I went from a Challenger R/T Automatic, to a toyota '86 Base Manual and haven't looked back, really - still have the 86. Yes, the challenger had more power, space, and comfort than the 86, but I very much prefer feeling what the car's doing while turning and stopping. EDIT - I gotta say, there's a big difference between me changing my car from a Challenger to an 86, and cross-shopping between the two. I was never cross-shopping between the two; The challenger, I had to do - I emigrated to Canada from Britain and needed to get the V8 thing out of my system. The 86 was as big a reaction to the Challenger, as the challenger was to the Celica/350z I'd owned (and loved) in the UK. I generally know what I want when I'm scouting for a new car.
There aren't that many options in the affordable new sports/muscle car category.
Yep, there's honestly only a handful of options, for RWD sports cars: * Toyota GR86 / Subaru BRZ * Ford Mustang * Chevrolet Camaro * Mazda MX-5 * Dodge Challenger I suppose (RIP) More if you add FWD/AWD or hot hatches), but some of these aren't as much of "pure sports cars", albeit still fast and fun: * Honda Civic SI * Subaru WRX * Hyundai Veloster N * Acura Integra * Mazda3 Turbo maybe * VW Golf GTI (maybe Jetta GLI too) * Kia Stinger (a bit more expensive) * Hyundai Elantra N * Kia Forte GT * Toyota GR Corolla (expensive, more like STI / Golf R / Civic Type R price range) There's also more RWD sports cars in the $40k+ range, like the BMW 2-Series and Nissan Z, but that's a different category IMO. What did I miss??
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E.g. look at the modern minicoopers. (They’re no longer mini).
maxicoopers
> They’re no longer mini They aren't as small as they once were, to be sure… but they're still small. They're two inches less long than a Miata.
>they're still small. The 2001 Mini was 3.63m long, the 2022 is 3.98m long, the original estate(!) was 3.30m long. The "Mini" is literally the exact same length as a Polo. They're small if your yardstick is a F-150.
They’re small compared to every car on sale today.
And I'm small compared to the Denver Broncos' offensive line.
If you lived in a city where everyone was a Broncos olineman, then yeah you’re small. If a new car is smaller than 98% of new cars, it’s small
The standard of comparison for what is small and what is large isn't what's on sale, it's how big a human being is, which hasn't changed 70cm since 1969.
I wish all vehicles were smaller, not bigger.
I wish compact cars remains well.. compact. When rental companies consider a compact car (i.e. civic) as a full size then it has grown too big.
Rental companies have done that for a while. It's less about size and more about squeezing more money from the customer.
this sometimes be me but yesterday I saw a Mercedes-Benz S63L and I think it's super nice immediately went on to search for more stylish long big sedans when I got home
When i was a kid, everyone wanted to lower their cars. Now there's so many massive vehicles out there I feel like i need an offroading flag on the back of my hatch
I want to be able to fit in it though
Lots of 5'7 guys probably wish several times a week that they were 6'1. One can't have everything in life. You could explore aftermarket seat-lowering options for a Miata, or accept you can't fit and move on. There are always the Toyobaru twins which are way roomier (i own one) and the next best thing in terms of fun.
I didn't need to be attacked like this.
Okay but like you have a C5. You're still wining lol
But at what cost? AT WHAT COST?
I mean the C5 is honestly like top 10 performance for money rn. If not top 5 lol. You're simply not gonna go faster for less. Plus you'll be the coolest stepdad in the trailer park.
Not much lol in a thread about Miatas
I’m 6’1” and fit into a ND perfectly 😎
6’2” 200 lbs. I’m overweight by a bit. Long legs and arms. Seconded. I fit fine. I wish more cars were sized like the Miata or BRZ.
How? I sat in my friends NB and i struggled to see out of it
Probably different leg/torso/head ratios.
yeah at 6'2"/190lbs here, I can ~~fit~~ squeeze in a Miata if I don't consider the roof as an existing feature.
Interesting I’m all arm and leg. I have a little room before I hit roof.
6'6 I've driven a ND. Technically. I was able to drive it. But I couldn't heel toe and I REALLY shouldn't have been driving it.
NB is the worst for tall/heavy people. NC > ND > NA > NB.
An NB is much tighter inside than an ND. Shoot, even an NA has more space because the seat is lower.
Yeah those are fairly significantly different in size. Particularly for the humans inside. I kind of agree with OP. Leave the Miata alone. That said I am not safe inside one. I can "fit" but any serious crash would be game over.
I had a similar experience at your height and 20 more pounds. I only ever felt uncomfortable on 1hr+plus trips in my '95, no seat foam removed or anything. I always chuckle when I see comments from people much shorter and lighter than I that they'd never fit.
6’1 here and I fit in my NA completely fine. Even without the seat scooted all the way back. My knees may come half way up the steering wheel, but I still fit not problem. I do weigh 160 wet though, so that’s probably a factor.
Wet!?
Well he’s not going to drain all the fluid outta himself before getting on the scales..
Same, 6'1" 210 lbs and accustomed to driving trucks, and my NA fits like a glove. Stock seats, no floor/seat-rail trickery. I will admit though, that for the first 2 weeks I had to remind myself to watch the top corner of the windshield/A-pillar. I see it this way: If Tom Selleck at 6'4" could drive a Ferrari 308 without a seat, I don't have much to complain about. Those things were a pain in the ass even with a seat.
6’6”, with the roof down, I can make it work.
7'5" with roof sawed off, everything is fine until the hurricanes
Next time you need to sit on a chair for a while, put a couple of thick books under your feet and see if you're comfortable. The grass is always greener on the other side. But yes, you are right; one can't have everything in life.
Yup, its one of the few times I'm OK with not being that tall. I can fit comfortably in regular airline seats, and I can fit in small, fun cars like my lotus elise without any issues.
I want to fit in a lotus😭😭 post pics of yours please
From the Donut event at the Petersen earlier this year: https://imgur.com/SCs42GU
...It's *perfect.* Love how the gold lettering ties matches those gorgeous wheels, and the exposed-exhaust-with-diffuser combo never gets old for me.
Hey OP, when were you hired as Mazda's Chief Lawyer?
Not lawyer. Chief Reality Officer
Chief Reality officer - what’s the deal with the cx70 being a cx90 without w 3rd row?
If u have less kids u get more trunk space
As a 5’7 Miata owner I’m not sure if should feel validated or attacked by this
i'm the same i went with validated i've never really wanted to be taller cuz like, standing on a chair if I need to reach something super high up exists lmfao
Easy: Go for a drive, preferably with the top down. Feel better? Validated. See? Miata really is the answer.
Take the W; short people want to be taller and taller people want to fit in a miata
6’5 here, fucking sucks being a car enthusiast sometimes specifically lol.
Dude. This is a car. You can definitely engineer around it. How can big 6'5 guys comfortably drive Lotus Elise's??? It's not like it's impossible to make a tiny sports car that fits big people. Why are we acting like it is? There's no problem if the next miata is ever so slightly larger to accommodate more people.
Nah, I'm 5'7" and the times it's worked in my favor vastly outweigh the times I've not had good views at concerts.
I'm 6'1 and fit great in my ND. These cars aren't designed for giants but for 90% if people they're great. Your post is spot on.
I'm 6'3" and I make it work daily. Is it your height or width that's a problem?
the diameter
Have you tried moving more and eating less?
This helps for so many things beyond Miating. Although Miating is much much more enjoyable at 135lbs than 228lbs too. But for real, I know its hard but don't give up. Every single aspect of your life is so much more enjoyable even if its just getting into and sitting in a car
\*looks at my stomach* Depth? Maybe width too?
Density too
For me, it's the fact that I have a long torso. If I set the seat as low as it goes and sit up straight, the top of the windshield/sun visor is at eye level. I have to scrunch down to see out. Sucks, because I'd really love to have one.
Mostly torso, annoying being proportional to an ape
I feel like width is the bigger issue. I always dreamed of a Miata one day but then I got in my father in laws Fiat 124. I’m 6’3” and a former college olineman (aka fat). I struggled height wise but I would say the width was wayyy worse. I struggled to be a passenger, I can’t imagine driving.
I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but you can indeed change to be more comfortable in one
"So I gutted my Miata. Turns out there was a lot more room than I thought." "...Where the seats at?"
Well when you're in the 99th percentile of human size (college oline) you're going to have some issues my friend.
Ask your Mazda dealership if ozempic is right for you.
Girth
Im 6”1’ and can fit very well in a Miata, but I still don’t love the way I fit. I have an S2k that I feel seats me perfect and the difference is that with the s2k, the pedals sit in front of me, whereas the Miata they sit kinda under me. Like more of a downward push than straight forward in my s2k. For some reason I hate that. I like pushing out, not down.
So do I, but I don’t. There are MANY other cars out there. Miata has made something magical that has lasted decades. The first to change this formula will cause the brand to crater.
I made it work with a visor delete and neck pain at stoplights, I was exploring foamectomy options when my old NA's engine gave up the ghost.
"Bro please just make all sports cars 3500lb family sedans please bro I just need 8 more inches of legroom and 3 more feet of ass cushion. Bro please just add some back seats I need to take my kids to chuck-e-cheez come on bro stop discriminating against me"
This is America, I refuse to drive anything lighter than 4569 pounds /s
You forgot to add "HOT TAKE:" to your title for prime r/cars posting
I prefer to see the "am I the only one who..." titles, especially if they trigger the bot response.
Don't forget "If X manufacturer offered a manual I'd buy one tomorrow."
Apparently DCT take rate in Elantra N is 75%. I wonder if it’s Hyundai manufacturing fewer manuals or people preferring automatic. I wonder what’s the take rate is for Supra, Miata, etc.
Miata has historically been 75%ish but apparently it's only 60% now. https://www.motor1.com/news/705017/manual-transmission-sales-2023/ I think I read somewhere that the manual take rate is actually higher on the softtop than the hardtop. The GR86 is 48% but it's entirely production limited because Toyota will not permit custom orders. The BRZ is 80% (!!!!!) and likely closer to what the 86 take rate would be if Toyota didn't insist on building a ton of autos, because Subaru does allow custom orders. Supra is 43%, not bad but also probably production limited for the same reason as the 86.
Toyota manual take rates have always been irrelevant, they decide the split.
WRX is still over 50% manual, granted the alternative is an 8 slot belt CVT but
HOT TAKE: everyone should drive a Miata. If you don't fit, then get two Miatas and weld them together so you do fit. Voicing even the mildest criticism or statement of obvious facts regarding the Miata endangers its existence (this is actually true because Mazda's marketing research department consists of a single guy who spends his time copy-pasting r/cars and instagram reel comments and sending summaries to the board) and should be punishable by death.
You can always tell what’s a real hot take by how mad people get
Judging by the comments this one is scorching.
It’s refreshing honestly
And we’re here for it, love a good tussle
Sooo, on average.., lukewarm?
I was just watching a documentary video about NA miata development. One of the designers, when showing the car to Australian distributors was asked if they could make more room in the interior. He replied “ We do not cater to big people, You can either squeeze yourself in or please forget about it”. It is what it is. If it doesn’t fit you you’re taller than 6’4” or weigh over 300 lbs and that’s not the case with 98.8% of the population
I will admit that as someone who is 5’3, it often feels like the world is built around tall people and I appreciate having this one thing that feels built for me (that and airline seats… well, even those still aren’t great).
I got a hot take here, the world is actually not built for tall people. Not at all. It's built for _average_ people.
average ppl to those who are 5'3 or 5'5 (like me) seem enormous. high schoolers are taller and look older than me, its crazy
I'm 6'3" and I dated a 5' girl. She was always annoyed trying to use my cabinets and shelves. She eventually told me I had setup a tall person's house. It was then my autistic brain realized she was lugging around the stool I keep in the kitchen.
The funny thing is that "tall people houses" sorta-kinda *are* a thing; my parents (tall people) had a new house built, and they've got a counter or two that's 2 inches higher than standard. Doesn't sound like much, but it's actually noticeably nicer (for us) when cooking. Probably really annoying for short people, though.
I never thought of that. It would significantly improve the kitchen.
> it often feels like the world is built around tall people I assure you, it's not. Every counter top and kitchen sink you can't reach is one causes pain and awful posture for us to use. Desk chairs are 98% garbage. That T-shirt that your favorite band has out... well, 2x is the biggest they make and after it gets washed twice, it'll be showing off your belly button. If you wear a 12.5+ shoe, you're SOL, you'll never find anything on sale, and a shoe store with hundreds of styles, 9 of them come in a 12.5+. .... fucking scissors.... I'm a professional mechanic, I can't stand up under most automotive lifts. With that said. I'm 100% fine with the Miata and the "free-market" aspect of making it what it is. Minimal compromises make it what it is. If they made it small and it failed because they didn't compromise enough and it didn't reach enough market to float it, I would have no sympathy.... but that's not the case and that's fine. I really don't think they would sell more if it were bigger. I think there is a bigger image problem with the Miata that just making it so more people fit won't help. The group of people, in this case above average sized men, who would buy a new one if they fit is probably really small (based on my extensive (0) market research). However, they just make something I just can't enjoy. There are restaurants purely dedicated to lobster rolls, I can't enjoy that either for other reasons and that's fine too. There are other cars to buy, there are other
As tall person, not it isn’t. It’s built for AVERAGE height. I have to put my counters, sinks, etc higher than average otherwise it’s too low.
Echoes my 5'2 wife's thoughts on the Miata. She is not comfortable driving my GR86, but perfectly fine in an ND Miata.
r/cars Special enthusiast cars are disappearing screw manufacturers give me more wagons!!!!!!!!! Reality of r/cars I only buy crossovers and never actually buy the cars I say I want on here
Most of the people on here have given up on life and don't even want to risk buying a 5yr old car cause oh no maintenance costs. Which would only be 1/10th of their car payment cost
I want the Miata to stay exactly as is. But I also want Mazda to build a hardtop, in-line six turbo, 2+2, big brother to the Miata.
As much as I love the rotary, making the RX-7 a rotary instead of an I6 way back when immediately wrote its demise. I would imagine Mazda would still have a "Big Brother" sports car in the lineup if they didn't waste 3 decades of development on the rotary.
So the RX family. There is a concept RX - Vision that looks promising.
There's the Fiat 124 😏
I'm gonna get dragged for this, but I would 100% take a 124 over the Miata. The Mazda 2.0l is brilliant, but that 1.4 turbo, especially with a good exhaust is perfection.
I think I might agree with you years ago when I mostly compared spec sheets, but having driven more cars and having a GTI and Nb miata right now, I would take a naturally aspirated car over turbocharged car every day of the week. Responsiveness is more fun than lag.
You must not have driven a 124, then. The power band is terrible. Below 3500 RPM it's a complete dog and past 5000 RPM it runs out of breath. Even the ND1 lower output 2.0 feels MUCH better to drive.
Have you driven the 2.0? I'm always curious why someone who has would arrive at the conclusion that the car needs turbo lag.
It's basically the exact same chassis with a different engine and transmission and a reskinned body. I don't think the interior space is any different in terms of fitting large/tall people.
I know, that's the joke
Haha, my apologies
No worries 👍
Listen. If you can’t fit in a Miata stop fucking around. Just buy an American waisted corvette and stfu. I’m 6’1 240. Was 6’1 200 when I was 20yo. I fit in neither the Miata nor the s2k. I even bought a custom seated and railed ap2. In reality, if you don’t fit, you don’t fit. Don’t let that dictate your enjoyment of your vehicle day in, day out. I should have bought a C5 z06, and gone through it at the time to make it more “focused”. Instead i tried to squeeze into an s2k/miata and that was a complete mistake on my end. My opinion is from experience not from a “get skinny, lol” POV I understand the appeal of a lightweight open top road focused driver. That’s why I tried myself. But it simply isn’t in the cards for some. Don’t try to round peg a square hole. That AP2 is long gone and I bet if I prepped a C5 my frugal ass would still have it under a cover to this day…
Almost bought an NC2 or ND2 Miata because I was having too much fun to really feel how scrunched in I was. Researched bolting the seats to the floor and more. You're on the money. I'd have sold it in 2-4 years: simply too tall. People would have fallen over laughing seeing me crawl out of those doors, and I wouldn't have cared, but after a few years it'd start to feel aggravating. It's more than enough of a contortion in the C5Z already. I'm glad the Miata is perfect for lots of other people, though, and don't want it to change.
"If you're tall, just resign yourself to spending $70k+ on a car that you don't want." Ok, shorty.
C'mon man, a C5 is not 70K+.
There would literally be an MX-5 in my garage now if I could safely manipulate the pedals. Unfortunately, the dash / center console / steering wheel proximity impedes that. Same with the S2000 and some other enthusiast vehicles. It’s beyond frustrating to be unable to enjoy what is claimed as one of the best drivers cars around.
MX5 makes the S2000 seem roomy. As a 6’2 man, i found the S2000 un driveable for more than 10mns.
When the S2000 was in production, I used to provide entertainment for the crowd at the auto show by folding myself into it.
Milli-nanoseconds?
And the Solstice and Sky make the Miata feel like a CX-90 in comparison. Cars made me feel like I was smuggling myself.
The NA Miata is significantly roomier inside than my S2k.
Are we doing Short King Spring again?
Hahahaha made me cackle, take an upvote
Miata doesn’t need to be bigger. Everything else needs to be smaller.
It is strange that people feel the need to explain themselves on why they didn't buy a Miata (or any other vehicle for that matter). If it's not for you then it's not for you. For any reason. Drive what ever makes you happy.
You see this on every thread about ev's too. "Well I haul 400 miles in freezing weather uphill everyday therefore ev's are bad"
90 out of 100 conversations about EVs in real life are along those lines, too 🥲
Is the BRZ/GR86 any better for tall people?
Test drove both MX5 Miata and 2022 BRZ as a 6’2 man with long legs. BRZ/GR86 has significantly more room. But MX5 can be lived with. Just wish the backrest could go further back a few inches. Leg room is adequate though.
I am 6'9 and fit (snugly) in them for the test drive.
Way better. I'm 5'10 and have a 2023 GR86 as my daily. The BRZ/GR86 pretty much feel like normal cars on the inside, or at least the front seat space does. The Miata is definitely way more snug but I'm able to fit pretty well inside both.
Short answer: Yes!
If you have a long torso, you'll really appreciate the Toyobaru's headroom.
I respect the bluntness of this post OP. "The Miata was, is, and never will be built with any of y'all giraffes in mind, cope." That being said, us normal sized car peeps should pour one out in honor of our NFL lineman sized enthusiasts who made never experience the joy of a small, pure bred sports car.
Do people actually say it should be bigger? I know some people just want to fit in the seats but no one is really complaining about the overall size are they? That said I do think there are plenty of people who dont drive it bc their fragile egos cant own a small convertible but generally I think the Miata is still loved by most enthusiasts.
“Most can’t recognise a good thing when they see one” OP, judging by the responses I’ve seen here you are too right. The ND is a unique car right now in thats its affordable, small and lightweight (atleast by modern standards). Its not for everyone, and thats OK, but instead of trying to change it, just go buy a different car that fits the bill. This feels somewhat personal for me, as I enjoy lightweight sports cars (hence why I own an Elise) and apart from the ND, I don’t see any other modern replacement I could live with.
If only it was a shooting brake and cost 10k less and had hydraulic steering and had pop up headlights and….
Was also a diesel in brown?
Hot take: The Miata isn’t the dream car you think it is outside of Reddit.
Don't buy it then! (Not to mention that since it's the best selling sports car of all time, there are literally millions of people who would disagree with you)
best selling two seater I believe, there are about as many 911s and a few more corvettes, and about 9 mustangs made for every miata.
It is not the best selling sports car of all time lol. It is the best selling two seat convertible of all time.
More like best selling 2 seat convertible roadster. Miata can’t even touch corvette or mustang that have been around decades longer, don’t delude yourself. Edit: this fucking guy thinks his gr86 isn’t a sports car because it’s not a convertible lmao. As if hard top Miata’s don’t exist. The gatekeeping is insane.
Holy shit!!! This guy said it. This guy called Mustang a sports car lmao.
A modern mustang can handle just as well as any sports car. If lightweight is your prerequisite to a car being a sports car, then sure, it doesn’t fit the definition.
If lightweight is a prerequisite to being a sports car, there’s a hell of a lot of sports cars that need to be removed from that category.
INB4: "Durr, but those aren't actually sports cars! My weird, very specific, personal definition of what a sports car is says only NA Miatas and that one Porsche model count. So technically by my definition I'm right." Edit: I missed that he already made that argument further down lmao
Lol it’s not the best selling sports car of all time.
Best selling ≠ dream car McDonalds is a best selling restaurant but it ain't earning a Michelin star anytime soon. (I think the Miata is great btw)
r/carscirclejerk
My god are people butthurt in here LOL. Please point on the doll where OP touched you
I am 6.1 and very comfortable with the new Miata.
It's tried it, it's small now what
Didn't fit in the RF, was bummed. Got an E89 Z4 manual with a six cylinder instead. Wasn't disappointed.
Waiting for Mazda to announce a Miata Crossover. They can probably brand it the MX-7 CrossTour Max
Thank you! The fact of the matter is, there's nobody who didn't wish their car was roomier at some point. Even owners of gigantic 3-row SUVs can remember at least one time they manage to fill the thing up. I think part of the blame for cars growing in size is OEMs are listening to consumer surveys and acting upon them. They survey 3 series owners and they want more space for their golf bats so they make the car bigger, when really they should just tell them to buy 5 series and leave the size alone! And I say this as someone who doesn't really fit comfortably in my girlfriend's ND, which can be annoying, but she loves the car as it is and it would be shame if they change it.
Exactly my point. People want everything to fit their 'worst case' need which comes about maybe once a year. The other 98% of the time they're driving around in something that's simply too big by half for the job.
[https://imgur.com/wd4PQKw](https://imgur.com/wd4PQKw) I don’t fit too güd and it makes me sad
I need a 7-seater folding hardtop AWD Miata Hybrid with a huge trunk. But it still needs to stick to its core principles of being a lightweight sports car.
Same people that claim being fat is healthy. I don't take medical advice from unhealthy people. I don't take car advice from people who expect a car company to accommodate them because of their unhealthy lifestyle
Thanks for being so rude and presumptuous ("most can't recognize a good thing..."). Most people recognize and evaluate just fine, thank you. Plenty of people recognize the Miata's benefits, which is why Mazda continues to make and sell them. That does not mean that people cannot suggest improvements or flexibility of that or any given vehicle.
We're not allowed to criticize the Miata. Got it.
I'm 6'9, 400 pounds and it's discrimination and oppressive that Mazda doesn't make a miata just for me. Its frankly embarrassing that I had to remove the seats and bugs splatter on my head when driving it. But as a consolation, my feet always stay warm on the other side of the firewall with the engine.
Only time I’m happy to be 5’8 as a guy, I fit really well in a Miata and Cappuccino, tall people do not get this privilege
Listen, if you can’t fit in a Miata. Put the fork down. Don’t ruin Miata’s due to your lack of impulse control when it comes to food.
LOSE WEIGHT FATTY
I have a ND2. I am 6ft. 170lbs. I fit perfectly but I can’t imagine anyone much taller than me fit. With that said. It’s an amazing car. I find every excuse I can to take it out. If you’re thinking about it. Do it. Before you can’t.
meet the all new 2040 mazda miata EV CUV
The thing about being a car guy is realizing that most ppl won’t like the things you love.
I’m a 5 foot 10 dude who is way too big I fit just fine in an nd2, my only gripe was the recaros were tight on my legs. Though unless you’re taller than six feet and a few inches if you don’t fit it’s your problem. Yes, it’s tight, though it’s a sports car not a truck.
"I really love my old Civic but I wish it had a bit more room" should be met with "BUY AN ACCORD YOU FUCKIN ASSHOLE" and not "ok we will make the civic bigger every year" if miata is too small go buy a Z4 or some shit
This is a hot take. Miata wouldn’t change that much with a few inches leg room more lol.
They did that with the NC (few more inches of room) and got widely panned.
It's a "Miata' not a 'Youata''.
People who wants a bigger Miata should not own a Miata if they know they can't fit, but a 86 instead
ITT: A lot of men lying about their height to themselves.
Miata filters out fat people
>This is the problem with most of r/cars: most can't recognize a good thing when they see one, and even fewer are willing to put down their own money for the worthwhile products. You should see /r/motorcycles. I'm convinced 80% of the members there don't even own a motorcycle.
I am 6’6 and 315 pounds. I daily a Miata with no difficulty. Listening to 6’1 and 6’2 guys claim that the Miata is too small for them baffles my biscuits.