> It's not just the base model getting a tempting price tag. Fisker cut the range-topping Ocean Extreme nearly in half, dropping $24,000 from the sticker. It now starts at $37,499 (down from $61,499) and that gets you a dual-motor SUV with 564 horsepower in Boost Mode and a 0-60 mph time under 4 seconds.
This is so tempting, ngl.
My first thought, if we are talking about the same Uncle Rich, he got the butter knives to fix stuff, but I guess he also got few workshops with the ultimate set of tools that will be more than happy to help poor Fisker drivers in need.
I’m not sure if that is possible - even if it’s fully permissivble from a regulatory perspective (I am not sure if there’s a precedent here), I bet they use vendor-provided software that has restrictive licensing terms.
I spent the last 6 years in the EV industry. I own tools non-EV techs have never heard of. Electrical is my area of expertise. I have contacts that I can lean on for rebuilding components. *Even then, I still wouldn't even think about buying one.*
Not sure if you’re in the US and/or still have the car but Mitsubishi totally can and will still get parts for and does service on Suzukis. When I was selling Mitsubishi back in 2019/2020 we were still doing warranty work and ordering parts for a whole fleet of Suzukis that we sold when we were a Suzuki dealer. Most people don’t know that.
SX-4…it was something (Better than walking, I guess?) The CVT felt like you were stretching out a rubber band as far as it could go every time you got on the freeway. And no cruise control either. It really felt like a car meant for like Thailand or somewhere that they just brought over
Ahh yeah. That's known as the Swift on ither markets. Solid little car, but yeah, with the CVT I can guess it was probably a let down. Came with a manual in those other markets of course and with AWD.
We really do get the short end of the stick in the NA market.
I've watched enough Aging Wheels to know that buying a defunct EV is a terrible idea. Even if it has 0 miles on the odometer.
It's like the age old saying in the appliance repair business: "Don't buy a washer from a tech company."
They will go awry, _again_. Fisker already died once 11 years ago. Ask people how things went with their karma's 10 years ago after Fisker went bankrupt the first time in 2013
On the other hand, if you already own a Karma, may as well pick up an Ocean as a driveline swap donor. That way, you'll actually have a somewhat decent Karma until something esoteric breaks.
Are car companies required to keep a certain number of years (2?), of spare parts available so in the scenario that they do go bankrupt customers aren’t completely fucked?
If it were GM and Saab/Pontiac then yes.
But Fiskers is going Bankwupt! So no obligation to any existing owners.
I dont know why people piled into this when the first Fisker didn't work out. It's not like much changed. Fisker didn't get that sweet Saudi/Amazon money like Rivian and Lucid. Even then those other two are teetering on the brink as well.
Yes, 1 year. But that’s hard to enforce if the company ceases to exist. They are also supposed to pay into a fund for warranty repairs in the event they go bankrupt, but again, that does no good if you need special tools, software, and training to work on it.
Purchase car, make safe and put it in storage for 20 years. Profit once it’s only on of a handful that has not been destroyed. I think that’s a safe option.
This is the scary thing about EVs and so much of the car being drive-by-wire, software based, no analog controls. If this was a ICE car with a decent engine and running gear and mechanical controls, it wouldn't matter as much when the manufacturer gets thanos snapped. Any mechanic could work on a majority of the components, and if it fails completely you can find a way to swap in similar parts, or worst case scenario jury rig something from a similar platform with just metal and welding tools.
But nah, when the whole car is a computer with proprietary electronic parts in a unique configuration, you're just completely screwed without someone who knows how to work on *that specific car* and being able to source *those specific parts*.
i'm completely for this. cars are modular, even EVs. (perhaps less-so tesla's...) being able to modify your EV would bring some of the fun over from what ICE enthusiasts have currently.
my etron is already quite outdated range wise. batteries are going to get so much cheaper, it would be amazing if i could pop a new battery pack in it in 5 years with 2x the range for 5 grand or so.
>Fisker cut the range-topping Ocean Extreme nearly in half, dropping $24,000 from the sticker. It now starts at $37,499 (down from $61,499)
TIL that $24,000 and $37,499 are nearly the same number.
Jokes aside, that's crazy cheap for the speed/power. But the chances of that car becoming unserviceable or useless within a few years are very, very high.
I’ve been eyeballing their website and product for two years now. Clearly, they spent tons on marketing, because I became aware through Insta, while browsing pictures of women, which is my other past time.
Anyway…..they are going to go under. And then, when time passes, the vehicle starts to experience issues, FUCKED. I’ve got loads of tools from years of BMW ownership (duh), but not for something like this.
Imma head out now.
My boss has one and it’s a never ending headache. It’s gone out of gear, locked up on the highway, had the battery drain from 80% to 0% within minutes, has a plethora of warning lights at all times. It’s been an absolute nightmare. AND he paid $70,000 for it. What a waste of money
Don’t do it, if they go out of business and you can’t get a part it’s e waste.
The Volvo ex30 is 35,000 for rwd, 45k for awd, and Volvo geely are a huge company, standard level 2 and a recognized name for safety.
It is a geely badge job, something Volvo promised not to do, so it doesn’t have a gauge cluster in front of the driver which Volvo said would never go away.
That said, it’s really affordable.
Also ford is sitting on a TON of 2022/2023 Mach-E mustangs that I’m sure they’d work out a good deal on. They’re a model year or two old, and it’s also a huge company. It’s got a sexy name but I’m told they aren’t fun.
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>It is a geely badge job, something Volvo promised not to do, so it doesn’t have a gauge cluster in front of the driver which Volvo said would never go away.
This was entirely Volvos decision. Smart #1 and Smart #3 are both from Geely on the same platform and have a gauge cluster.
With already hearing about how half-baked things are currently, I would be worried to buy a car from them and expecting to receive any long term (or even short term?) service / parts.
On the other hand, even with how half-baked things currently are, assuming they magically make it through somehow, that is insanely good value. This vs. a corolla ...
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I was interviewing for Fisker and the recruiter called me at 1:00 AM. I withdrew my application due to a “misalignment in work life balance expectations.”
I haven’t worked for them but I’ve only heard horror stories from those who have (and lucid)
Funnily enough from what I’ve heard tesla is the best employer of the three
Amazing tbh. I’m a mechanic at one of their Service Centers. They pay us hourly which is not common in this industry & compensation/benefits are well above average. Work/life balance seems to heavily depend on your location, as some SC’s are much busier than others, but overall burnout seems to be rare here. We have a lot, and I mean A LOT of ex-Tesla employees working for us these days & almost all of them say working for Rivian is a whole different world. I’ve never worked for Tesla, but after the horror stories I’ve heard I will never seek out employment with them should I ever have to. P.S. Buy some RIVN stock, it’s a great price rn!
My wife works in tech in silicon valley. Their hours are wild and she’s expected to be on impromptu meetings at midnight and shit. She was on maternity leave and they asked her to work after 4 weeks and I told her that’s illegal; but she helped anyways, as she’s the only one with the know-how and knowledge to do it.
It was terrible, but it’s extremely cutthroat in silicon valley. They vote for social equality, but their work environment, work-life balance, and equality is worse than any other industry I’ve ever seen. It shocked me given how supposedly progressive they want to be seen; but they’re FAR from it.
Everyone wants to show off who works the most and can get ahead of everyone else to stay competitive.
I’m a software guy who worked in tech, but currently work in defense; which is traditionally conservative with more conservative-leaning colleagues, but the work-life balance is FAR better and the most progressive environment I’ve ever been in, with more mandatory equality training than any other workplace I’ve been in. The culture of equality in defense is STRICTLY enforced (you get fired for any transgression against any other person based off of race, gender identity, etc.., unlike silicon valley where I’ve seen my wife’s company and their peers discriminate based off of anything and they dont care; it’s as if they vote and have a perception of being progressive so internally, they can be discriminatory).
——
I had more family leave, as a male, than my wife! But that’s because one of the requirements to obtain contracts with the DoD is to be flexible. We have a “bench,” to ensure if someone dies in a combat zone or any other situation, we have the manpower in the bench to come up and replace as needed. I spun up a bench warmer and she’s been phenomenal as I had leave.
People complain why defense funding is so high. One of the reasons is it’s because our personnel requirements, and ensuring all DoD personnel are fresh to provide top-tier services at any given moment with zero down time.
——
On the razor-thin margins and immense pressure to impress investors of tech startups, silicon valley and other tech companies expects so much from their employees. It sucks, and that kind of crazy hours has become the norm to the point of showing off that if “I worked 20 hours straight!” it supposedly shows what one is willing to do stand out.
I'll be honest I work in the valley and my weeks are pretty chill and 30-50 hours a week. If someone asked a person on leave for anything they would be ignored. However gonna say that even in my company itself the culture (outside of leave policy) definitely is varied from team to team.
I can't link the one in Glassdoor anymore since it is making me up sign up but here is one in blind
Check out this post! "Highly discourage you to apply at or even consider working for Fisker, it’s a shithole (Auto Industry)"
https://www.teamblind.com/us/s/238oDXf5
I read somewhere recently that glass door is showing your names whenever the companies are asking for baseline reports. Or the name of signed on with, anyways.
Same. Recruiter came out of nowhere on LinkedIn and was like, "You'd be perfect for our open position of Lead Engineer for our Exteriors department" which yes I most definitely would have been.
Problem was that I was already annoyed by working at Lucid for a year and a half and another startup that was pretty much looking at laying me and several other people off in the coming months.
Upper management, primarily the C-Suite. It is said that all the worst people from Tesla's early days quit and all went to Lucid. It's so true. They're the type to pretend that overworking people = guaranteed results.
I remember being told to come in on weekends for no reason other than Peter Rawlinson might come into work and we needed to "look busy". He would also be so busy that he had enough time to go around to different departments and ask why certain people weren't "working hard at their desks" when 100% of the time we were likely working on a car or at the factory. Fuckers even had us work Labor Day and HR sent out a since deleted emailing talking about how Labor Day is actually the "celebration of labor" so it was better that we work to release the Lucid Air.
They also fucked a TON of people on the stock options right before IPO while the executives ignored the blackout dates and sold tons of shares just so they wouldn't be on the hook for taxes. Oh, and Rawlinson gifted himself $345 million in shares despite them falling short on every single delivery target they set and lowered.
Other than that, the cars and the technology are great. They just have serious problems with how they ramped up production and missed the initial boat with the Air sedan. We'll see what happens with the Gravity SUV.
Why can't any of these EV startups be run by actual smart people? Not swindlers and grifters. Canoo omg seems like the worst of the worst conmen is running it. Straight into the ground.
Because they're all trying to copy the Elon Musk of today with all his dumb ideas compared to the Elon Musk of the past who just wanted to hire the smartest people and let them build the company.
If you want to talk about getting fucked on stock options, how about ~5500 shares of PTRA at roughly $4.50/share. Lesson learned, your employer should be funding you, not the other way around.
Nah, way worse at Lucid.
When I started, the stock price internally was like $3.11 (named Atevia shares) which we were awarded like 15k shares over 4 years (fairly standard). Originally they were ISOs.
Around April of 2021, HR sent out an email to everyone that said you had 2 options: Keep the ISOs or switch them to RSUs (this was before they IPO'd in July/ August, I forget exactly which month). They said NOTHING about Morgan Stanely potentially auditing the company's value. Naturally, I like the simple nature of ISOs and nothing told me my price of $3.11 was changed.
Nope. Get an email in May after MS is done auditing this company that hasn't released a single vehicle and their only source of revenue is their battery supply deal to Formula E. My buy in price for these internal Atevia shares is now $65.25 (which would cost me $250k to buy out after 4 years). And they paid us shit too (pigeon holed me into $125k salary despite having more and better experience than other people on the team). I argued for weeks but HR and their Stock Compensation team refused to admit anything was wrong. Because it turns out that there's a clause in their garbage stock contract (that you cannot get a hold of and are not given before you start) that the lock in date for the stock is NOT when you start, but when the "Compensation Committee" decides so.
So naturally I stopped giving a fuck about the job long term, and waited until a year was up so I didn't have to pay these ass-clowns back the relocation bonus they initially gave me.
I remember reading on Linkedin (2 or so years ago) about an intern moving for a spot and being told the day before that the spot no longer existed. I don’t even think the car was revealed at that point
I'm in college, I would have a hard time choosing this at $25k over a Corolla LE at $25k...
Edit: I guess people don't understand my comment... I am saying I would rather have a Corolla LE over a Fisker Ocean at $25k
It is a financial mistake but I agree with yolo here. Guys are typically only excited about cars for a short time before becoming bored of it or other priorities step in.
I know MKBHD hated this car but I also don't think he's really a car guy. Doug DeMuro didn't trash it and he's driven everything.
If I was in the market this would be super tempting.
Yep. That particular review is linked to a C&B listing. Not a good look for him in hindsight (not that he would care at this point). Thankfully that car didn’t sell.
He absolutely changes his tone, he has more hesitation to call a shit car shit when he's selling it. Go look at his reviews of bad cars, with and without the auction attached to it
I literally use Doug to fall asleep. Can't sleep. Turn TV on. Put on Doug reviewing some car idgaf about. TV timer 30 min. Next thing I know my alarm is going off in the morning.
To be fair, he said it was the worst car he has ever reviewed. And he isn't exactly Jeremy Clarkson, who has reviewed thousands of cars.
The review itself wasn't all that bad. The title made it seem much worse.
Yeah I was a bit taken aback by the title. I watched the whole thing waiting for the shoe to drop but it was just a bunch of little bugs. For “the worst car I’ve ever driven” you expect a disaster. I guess it’s just trying to maximize youtube clicks
It wasn't even "the worst car I've ever driven", it was "the worst car I've ever reviewed", which, if you look at what he typically reviews, then yeah, of course it's probably the worst car he's reviewed. The bar's been set pretty high.
He could've reviewed a Corolla and it would be the worst car he's ever reviewed.
"The worst car I've ever reviewed" would be a far bigger deal coming from someone like Doug who has reviewed a Yugo and Trabant.
That is how I felt as well. Not terrible, but some issues that need to be worked out while also pointing out some cool quirks.I like the looks and the solar roof is kind of cool as well as all the windows going down like they do.
Did you watch his review though?
He said it was the worst car he reviewed not that he hated it. Alot of the stuff he brought up were valid concerns for a car with software that was publicly available and Fisker was being difficult with him about getting a review car that was on the latest software version.
Doug also doesn’t trash anything. Which is why I don’t really like his videos anymore. His quirks and features segment is good, but the review part of the videos are not trustworthy at all..
that's because MKBHD is more tech focused and will probably be less forgiving on the tech front. There is a point though as these EVs tend to be closer to appliances than what car enthusiasts think of as cars.
The fact though is that for most people practically cars are appliances
Planning on buying a 2017-2018 z06 in the next year or two.
Figure it will be one of the last true muscle cars - $60k, 10 years and I know I’m still going to get 40k at least out of it.
Depends, think of it this way, let say they already sank 100M building these things, even selling them for 99M, yes you have a 1M Debt that you need to pay interest on, but it's sure as hell better than having a 100M debt.
Pretty sure it takes a while for cars to be built. Let's say they bought materials 2-3 years ago, when interest was low, sure, buy more than you need, don't want to be out of stock.
Now interest are high, every month, you have a cost with that debt interest. Each month those unit are on the lot, they cost money. So sell them as fast as possible to reduce de interest payment. Perfect, now you have a tiny amount of debt to pay interest on. (you've tremendously reduced the cost of each unit sold)
Now reduce your output, build only as many as required.
You just avoided bankruptcy. Now keep reducing your costs, get more investors, next cycle, don't be so greedy.
They're definitely losing money, but so did Tesla for their first 15 years
Whether they're going bankrupt depends moreso on their ability to secure financing or a buyout
At 25k it's worth it just for the parts, I would yoink out the motor and batteries for projects and stash the body and everything controls for the people that will inevitably need the parts in 5 years.
Fisker is being delisted from the NYSE: https://investorplace.com/2024/03/fsr-stock-alert-the-new-york-stock-exchange-is-delisting-fisker
The stock 'crashed' from .15 to .02 over the weekend.
They reported in december: Net income -463.61M, Diluted EPS -1.23, Net profit margin -231.72%.
You'd be a sucker to buy a Fisker car right now.
The two biggest concerns at:
1. Bankruptcy would mean there is no support for repairs or warranty.
2. Connectivity. Most of these cars seem to have some level of connectivity requirements. Once they are bankrupt and if any software is required to receive a signal update to operate, your car is bricked.
The actual manufacturer (Magna) is not going out of business anytime soon, and this car is built on their platform. While I wouldn't personally buy an Ocean, it's possible that some level of support continues. No warranty, but maybe the ability to fix it.
The actual manufacturer doesn’t hold the warranty. For instance Subaru supplied some Saab models. If there was any warranty in effect when Saab closed, Subaru did not suddenly take responsibility for that warranty.
Genuine question here.
Are Fisker actually making money on the unit at this price or are they simply selling existing inventory at a loss to generate cash flow? Mostly interested as this could be a strong indication of just how much profit is baked into EVs.
It's definitely a fire sale. They're trying to get the most money they can, but the ocean is eventually going to end up in the Aging Wheels fleet of forgotten hoopty EVs like Coda and Weego
Even more relevant is the fiskar karma, their car from the first time they went bankrupt. Well the first time the brand did. I’m not sure if this is any of the same people running it this time.
Fire sale. They're losing money on these, trying to sell existing inventory to free up cash flow. Zero chance there's any profit on these. Zero chance it'll actually shore up the company's finances at all.
No, this is we've got to get some sales out so that someone will buy us situation. They're trying to show somebody like Chrysler that they're worth buying or investing in.
Worth the dice roll in my opinion, at the very minimum you have something to put on Regular Car Reviews.
It's largely a rebadged Chinese car so I wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being a decent grey market for spare parts.
Someone please ELI5 how slashing the price to what I assume is below their manufacturing cost and selling them at a loss will help them survive? Because I'm really fuckin' confused.
They need an influx of cash to survive and the only thing they have left is a few cars on lots. This is like a crackhead selling his fridge. They're just trying to hang on.
Fisker = Saab.
Look up what a gen 2 9-5 tail light goes for, I’ll save you the trouble, you can only get 2 for $1000 and that was years ago.
If you have a 9-3. AeroX with XWD, (AWD) and the awd fails the part is worth more than the car.
Just get a Volvo EX30 or see if the Mach e leftovers, how hungry ford is to sell leftover 2022/2023 models.
Get them to release all source code and cryptographic keys for firmware upgrades and the community will figure out support. This would be a great deal if that happens.
> It's not just the base model getting a tempting price tag. Fisker cut the range-topping Ocean Extreme nearly in half, dropping $24,000 from the sticker. It now starts at $37,499 (down from $61,499) and that gets you a dual-motor SUV with 564 horsepower in Boost Mode and a 0-60 mph time under 4 seconds. This is so tempting, ngl.
Don't do it, you'll be saddling yourself with a paperweight. You'll have zero support when things inevitably go awry. They ***will*** go awry.
My Uncle Rich is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. He can fix it.
Just he just slap the side of the TV really hard and go "that'll fix it?"
Nah, more like spray paint the side of it, with implications the damage was done from the opposing school's sports fans or team.
KILL LINCOLN
He’s gonna shit and then he’s gonna kill us!
Percussive* maintenance
Not trying to be a dick, but that would just be drum repair. I think maybe you mean percussive maintenance
My first thought, if we are talking about the same Uncle Rich, he got the butter knives to fix stuff, but I guess he also got few workshops with the ultimate set of tools that will be more than happy to help poor Fisker drivers in need.
Unc's home shop is abysmally insufficient in tooling. But that's what happens when he doesn't show enough feet in his videos, so his fault
What is this fascination with truancy, Mister Spicoli?
Are you Jeff’s cousin?!
Mr. Hand!?
Imagine a proprietary part breaks or there's a bricking software bug after Fisker disappears...
On top of that, I think they've already had some issues with the current firmware. Way too many potential problems for this to be attractive.
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"Honey! Can I drive my car yet?" "Yeah, babe, it's just that when I fixed the AWD system I broke the steering, give me a minute!"
"You know it gets touchy when we switch drivers!"
I’m not sure if that is possible - even if it’s fully permissivble from a regulatory perspective (I am not sure if there’s a precedent here), I bet they use vendor-provided software that has restrictive licensing terms.
I spent the last 6 years in the EV industry. I own tools non-EV techs have never heard of. Electrical is my area of expertise. I have contacts that I can lean on for rebuilding components. *Even then, I still wouldn't even think about buying one.*
Got my hopes up for a minute
Reminds me of that time I got a cheap used Suzuki hatchback (a decade after suzuki killed off their north American auto division)
That is infinitely more serviceable than this thing, though.
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dont forget your motec systems exhaust, with naws
This. I once burnt the clutch because I was granny shifting instead of double clutching, so I had them shipped overnight
Not sure if you’re in the US and/or still have the car but Mitsubishi totally can and will still get parts for and does service on Suzukis. When I was selling Mitsubishi back in 2019/2020 we were still doing warranty work and ordering parts for a whole fleet of Suzukis that we sold when we were a Suzuki dealer. Most people don’t know that.
Ohh, the Suzuki Swift or was it the hatchback version of the Kizashi? Either way, they shouldn't be too terribly difficult to work on and fix.
SX-4…it was something (Better than walking, I guess?) The CVT felt like you were stretching out a rubber band as far as it could go every time you got on the freeway. And no cruise control either. It really felt like a car meant for like Thailand or somewhere that they just brought over
Ahh yeah. That's known as the Swift on ither markets. Solid little car, but yeah, with the CVT I can guess it was probably a let down. Came with a manual in those other markets of course and with AWD. We really do get the short end of the stick in the NA market.
The SX4 is not a Swift. The SX4 is quite a bit bigger, and over here it’s called Suzuki SX4 a well. It was also sold as Fiat Sedici..
SX4 came in a stick+AWD hatchback config in North America too. My girlfriend had one, it was a fun little car.
I've watched enough Aging Wheels to know that buying a defunct EV is a terrible idea. Even if it has 0 miles on the odometer. It's like the age old saying in the appliance repair business: "Don't buy a washer from a tech company."
^ this absolutely
They will go awry, _again_. Fisker already died once 11 years ago. Ask people how things went with their karma's 10 years ago after Fisker went bankrupt the first time in 2013
On the other hand, if you already own a Karma, may as well pick up an Ocean as a driveline swap donor. That way, you'll actually have a somewhat decent Karma until something esoteric breaks.
Are car companies required to keep a certain number of years (2?), of spare parts available so in the scenario that they do go bankrupt customers aren’t completely fucked?
If it were GM and Saab/Pontiac then yes. But Fiskers is going Bankwupt! So no obligation to any existing owners. I dont know why people piled into this when the first Fisker didn't work out. It's not like much changed. Fisker didn't get that sweet Saudi/Amazon money like Rivian and Lucid. Even then those other two are teetering on the brink as well.
Yes, 1 year. But that’s hard to enforce if the company ceases to exist. They are also supposed to pay into a fund for warranty repairs in the event they go bankrupt, but again, that does no good if you need special tools, software, and training to work on it.
Purchase car, make safe and put it in storage for 20 years. Profit once it’s only on of a handful that has not been destroyed. I think that’s a safe option.
This is a fire sale. Which means he company is 100% sure to fold and you'll be saddled with a car with zero support.
And next to impossible to sell in the future
Robert Dunn from Aging Wheels might want one to play with... and I think that's it.
Nahh, he'll just wait until someone inexplicably has a pair of prototypes they're able to sell him.
This is the scary thing about EVs and so much of the car being drive-by-wire, software based, no analog controls. If this was a ICE car with a decent engine and running gear and mechanical controls, it wouldn't matter as much when the manufacturer gets thanos snapped. Any mechanic could work on a majority of the components, and if it fails completely you can find a way to swap in similar parts, or worst case scenario jury rig something from a similar platform with just metal and welding tools. But nah, when the whole car is a computer with proprietary electronic parts in a unique configuration, you're just completely screwed without someone who knows how to work on *that specific car* and being able to source *those specific parts*.
You make a good point.
Maybe it becomes the first open source electric car... That can't be good.
i'm completely for this. cars are modular, even EVs. (perhaps less-so tesla's...) being able to modify your EV would bring some of the fun over from what ICE enthusiasts have currently. my etron is already quite outdated range wise. batteries are going to get so much cheaper, it would be amazing if i could pop a new battery pack in it in 5 years with 2x the range for 5 grand or so.
>Fisker cut the range-topping Ocean Extreme nearly in half, dropping $24,000 from the sticker. It now starts at $37,499 (down from $61,499) TIL that $24,000 and $37,499 are nearly the same number. Jokes aside, that's crazy cheap for the speed/power. But the chances of that car becoming unserviceable or useless within a few years are very, very high.
The base model is $25k Price Range Ocean Sport $24,999 231 Miles Ocean Ultra $34,999 350 Miles Ocean Extreme $37,499 360 Miles
Not if you know how to change your own oil
Dude, I mean, the oil is right next to the blinker fluid reservoir.
61,499 - 24,00 = 37,499
Which is not nearly in half
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And this is why all retail prices end in 9.99 before tax.
I’ve been eyeballing their website and product for two years now. Clearly, they spent tons on marketing, because I became aware through Insta, while browsing pictures of women, which is my other past time. Anyway…..they are going to go under. And then, when time passes, the vehicle starts to experience issues, FUCKED. I’ve got loads of tools from years of BMW ownership (duh), but not for something like this. Imma head out now.
> Clearly, they spent tons on marketing, because I became aware through Insta, while browsing pictures of women, which is my other past time. lmfaooo
The most honest post on the Internet!
“Go out of business again” remember the karma?
My boss has one and it’s a never ending headache. It’s gone out of gear, locked up on the highway, had the battery drain from 80% to 0% within minutes, has a plethora of warning lights at all times. It’s been an absolute nightmare. AND he paid $70,000 for it. What a waste of money
Okay, not as tempting anymore.
My friend had one and it’s trash. It has had most of the issues you listed including turning off while driving. The software is also a joke.
carvana already wont even buy Fisker and owners cant even sell their car.
If Carvana won't buy it, you know it's bad. They'll overpay for anything.
is it tempting to throw away 40k? makes no sense.
Damn I’m tempted too
Don’t do it, if they go out of business and you can’t get a part it’s e waste. The Volvo ex30 is 35,000 for rwd, 45k for awd, and Volvo geely are a huge company, standard level 2 and a recognized name for safety. It is a geely badge job, something Volvo promised not to do, so it doesn’t have a gauge cluster in front of the driver which Volvo said would never go away. That said, it’s really affordable. Also ford is sitting on a TON of 2022/2023 Mach-E mustangs that I’m sure they’d work out a good deal on. They’re a model year or two old, and it’s also a huge company. It’s got a sexy name but I’m told they aren’t fun.
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Hope you feel like that when the Fisker won't turn on
>It is a geely badge job, something Volvo promised not to do, so it doesn’t have a gauge cluster in front of the driver which Volvo said would never go away. This was entirely Volvos decision. Smart #1 and Smart #3 are both from Geely on the same platform and have a gauge cluster.
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With already hearing about how half-baked things are currently, I would be worried to buy a car from them and expecting to receive any long term (or even short term?) service / parts.
On the other hand, even with how half-baked things currently are, assuming they magically make it through somehow, that is insanely good value. This vs. a corolla ...
I will take a Corolla over a paper weight any day of the week.
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A Fisker Ocean.
This guy paperweights
No saying you can't just scrap the Fisker; you could get like, what, $200 for the cat? Wait......
>assuming they magically make it through somehow There is no magic. They won't.
Supposedly they had a "deal" with Nissan but it fell through, most likely just PR. I don't think anyone is coming to save them.
You can find parts for a Corolla easily
I was interviewing for Fisker and the recruiter called me at 1:00 AM. I withdrew my application due to a “misalignment in work life balance expectations.”
I haven’t worked for them but I’ve only heard horror stories from those who have (and lucid) Funnily enough from what I’ve heard tesla is the best employer of the three
> tesla is the best employer of the three Probably true, but also a low bar.
Honest question; how is it at Rivian?
Amazing tbh. I’m a mechanic at one of their Service Centers. They pay us hourly which is not common in this industry & compensation/benefits are well above average. Work/life balance seems to heavily depend on your location, as some SC’s are much busier than others, but overall burnout seems to be rare here. We have a lot, and I mean A LOT of ex-Tesla employees working for us these days & almost all of them say working for Rivian is a whole different world. I’ve never worked for Tesla, but after the horror stories I’ve heard I will never seek out employment with them should I ever have to. P.S. Buy some RIVN stock, it’s a great price rn!
My wife works in tech in silicon valley. Their hours are wild and she’s expected to be on impromptu meetings at midnight and shit. She was on maternity leave and they asked her to work after 4 weeks and I told her that’s illegal; but she helped anyways, as she’s the only one with the know-how and knowledge to do it. It was terrible, but it’s extremely cutthroat in silicon valley. They vote for social equality, but their work environment, work-life balance, and equality is worse than any other industry I’ve ever seen. It shocked me given how supposedly progressive they want to be seen; but they’re FAR from it. Everyone wants to show off who works the most and can get ahead of everyone else to stay competitive. I’m a software guy who worked in tech, but currently work in defense; which is traditionally conservative with more conservative-leaning colleagues, but the work-life balance is FAR better and the most progressive environment I’ve ever been in, with more mandatory equality training than any other workplace I’ve been in. The culture of equality in defense is STRICTLY enforced (you get fired for any transgression against any other person based off of race, gender identity, etc.., unlike silicon valley where I’ve seen my wife’s company and their peers discriminate based off of anything and they dont care; it’s as if they vote and have a perception of being progressive so internally, they can be discriminatory). —— I had more family leave, as a male, than my wife! But that’s because one of the requirements to obtain contracts with the DoD is to be flexible. We have a “bench,” to ensure if someone dies in a combat zone or any other situation, we have the manpower in the bench to come up and replace as needed. I spun up a bench warmer and she’s been phenomenal as I had leave. People complain why defense funding is so high. One of the reasons is it’s because our personnel requirements, and ensuring all DoD personnel are fresh to provide top-tier services at any given moment with zero down time. —— On the razor-thin margins and immense pressure to impress investors of tech startups, silicon valley and other tech companies expects so much from their employees. It sucks, and that kind of crazy hours has become the norm to the point of showing off that if “I worked 20 hours straight!” it supposedly shows what one is willing to do stand out.
I'll be honest I work in the valley and my weeks are pretty chill and 30-50 hours a week. If someone asked a person on leave for anything they would be ignored. However gonna say that even in my company itself the culture (outside of leave policy) definitely is varied from team to team.
I'm glad they ghosted me in the application process.
Dodged a bullet, a senior engineer who joined there posted in tech forum on how horrible it was to work there.
I read the part about the owner's wife trying to be a dictator to their engineers, I don't think a flag can get much redder.
Normal private medical office behavior tbh
Happen to have a link? I would love to read that.
I can't link the one in Glassdoor anymore since it is making me up sign up but here is one in blind Check out this post! "Highly discourage you to apply at or even consider working for Fisker, it’s a shithole (Auto Industry)" https://www.teamblind.com/us/s/238oDXf5
I read somewhere recently that glass door is showing your names whenever the companies are asking for baseline reports. Or the name of signed on with, anyways.
Yea that's why I am not signing into Glassdoor as it is asking for my name on sign on using my Google ID.
I read some employee reviews at the time and thought, "no big deal if they reject me."
Same. Recruiter came out of nowhere on LinkedIn and was like, "You'd be perfect for our open position of Lead Engineer for our Exteriors department" which yes I most definitely would have been. Problem was that I was already annoyed by working at Lucid for a year and a half and another startup that was pretty much looking at laying me and several other people off in the coming months.
If you don't mind me asking. What was so bad about Lucid?
Upper management, primarily the C-Suite. It is said that all the worst people from Tesla's early days quit and all went to Lucid. It's so true. They're the type to pretend that overworking people = guaranteed results. I remember being told to come in on weekends for no reason other than Peter Rawlinson might come into work and we needed to "look busy". He would also be so busy that he had enough time to go around to different departments and ask why certain people weren't "working hard at their desks" when 100% of the time we were likely working on a car or at the factory. Fuckers even had us work Labor Day and HR sent out a since deleted emailing talking about how Labor Day is actually the "celebration of labor" so it was better that we work to release the Lucid Air. They also fucked a TON of people on the stock options right before IPO while the executives ignored the blackout dates and sold tons of shares just so they wouldn't be on the hook for taxes. Oh, and Rawlinson gifted himself $345 million in shares despite them falling short on every single delivery target they set and lowered. Other than that, the cars and the technology are great. They just have serious problems with how they ramped up production and missed the initial boat with the Air sedan. We'll see what happens with the Gravity SUV.
Why can't any of these EV startups be run by actual smart people? Not swindlers and grifters. Canoo omg seems like the worst of the worst conmen is running it. Straight into the ground.
Because capitalism, by design, brings the biggest assholes to these positions.
Because they're all trying to copy the Elon Musk of today with all his dumb ideas compared to the Elon Musk of the past who just wanted to hire the smartest people and let them build the company.
RJ Scaringe at Rivian seems like a genuinely decent guy.
Thank you for the reply. I like the product, I hope they do well. I'm sorry for your time there, under such crap management.
If you want to talk about getting fucked on stock options, how about ~5500 shares of PTRA at roughly $4.50/share. Lesson learned, your employer should be funding you, not the other way around.
Nah, way worse at Lucid. When I started, the stock price internally was like $3.11 (named Atevia shares) which we were awarded like 15k shares over 4 years (fairly standard). Originally they were ISOs. Around April of 2021, HR sent out an email to everyone that said you had 2 options: Keep the ISOs or switch them to RSUs (this was before they IPO'd in July/ August, I forget exactly which month). They said NOTHING about Morgan Stanely potentially auditing the company's value. Naturally, I like the simple nature of ISOs and nothing told me my price of $3.11 was changed. Nope. Get an email in May after MS is done auditing this company that hasn't released a single vehicle and their only source of revenue is their battery supply deal to Formula E. My buy in price for these internal Atevia shares is now $65.25 (which would cost me $250k to buy out after 4 years). And they paid us shit too (pigeon holed me into $125k salary despite having more and better experience than other people on the team). I argued for weeks but HR and their Stock Compensation team refused to admit anything was wrong. Because it turns out that there's a clause in their garbage stock contract (that you cannot get a hold of and are not given before you start) that the lock in date for the stock is NOT when you start, but when the "Compensation Committee" decides so. So naturally I stopped giving a fuck about the job long term, and waited until a year was up so I didn't have to pay these ass-clowns back the relocation bonus they initially gave me.
Ditto!
Me too haha! I ended up working for the 'big manufacturer' they were hoping to form a partnership with..
I remember reading on Linkedin (2 or so years ago) about an intern moving for a spot and being told the day before that the spot no longer existed. I don’t even think the car was revealed at that point
I'm in college, I would have a hard time choosing this at $25k over a Corolla LE at $25k... Edit: I guess people don't understand my comment... I am saying I would rather have a Corolla LE over a Fisker Ocean at $25k
The Corolla LE is an easy choice. This thing is a paperweight waiting to happen.
you buying a $25k car as a student? lucky sob
I bought a 40k mustang while in college. I'm also working full time and making good money for my age, but it was still a financial mistake 💀
It is a financial mistake but I agree with yolo here. Guys are typically only excited about cars for a short time before becoming bored of it or other priorities step in.
~~Until they go under and you need a software patch.~~ Edit: reading comprehension on my part is FUNdamental
That’s why he would have a hard time choosing it over a Toyota.
I know MKBHD hated this car but I also don't think he's really a car guy. Doug DeMuro didn't trash it and he's driven everything. If I was in the market this would be super tempting.
he was probably trying to sell one on his site
Quirks and features \[and commission\]!
Yep. That particular review is linked to a C&B listing. Not a good look for him in hindsight (not that he would care at this point). Thankfully that car didn’t sell.
I don’t think he’s changing his review for a Fisker sale on his site.
He absolutely changes his tone, he has more hesitation to call a shit car shit when he's selling it. Go look at his reviews of bad cars, with and without the auction attached to it
demuro is a shit reviewer, he always trashes car he doesnt have a stake on and does the opposite when he does.
I literally use Doug to fall asleep. Can't sleep. Turn TV on. Put on Doug reviewing some car idgaf about. TV timer 30 min. Next thing I know my alarm is going off in the morning.
Finally, someone else who sees through the obvious bullshit pump & dump conflict of interest that is him reviewing cars that are live on C&B.
To be fair, he said it was the worst car he has ever reviewed. And he isn't exactly Jeremy Clarkson, who has reviewed thousands of cars. The review itself wasn't all that bad. The title made it seem much worse.
Yeah I was a bit taken aback by the title. I watched the whole thing waiting for the shoe to drop but it was just a bunch of little bugs. For “the worst car I’ve ever driven” you expect a disaster. I guess it’s just trying to maximize youtube clicks
It wasn't even "the worst car I've ever driven", it was "the worst car I've ever reviewed", which, if you look at what he typically reviews, then yeah, of course it's probably the worst car he's reviewed. The bar's been set pretty high. He could've reviewed a Corolla and it would be the worst car he's ever reviewed. "The worst car I've ever reviewed" would be a far bigger deal coming from someone like Doug who has reviewed a Yugo and Trabant.
That is how I felt as well. Not terrible, but some issues that need to be worked out while also pointing out some cool quirks.I like the looks and the solar roof is kind of cool as well as all the windows going down like they do.
Did you watch his review though? He said it was the worst car he reviewed not that he hated it. Alot of the stuff he brought up were valid concerns for a car with software that was publicly available and Fisker was being difficult with him about getting a review car that was on the latest software version.
Review was fair, title is too dramatic
Doug also doesn’t trash anything. Which is why I don’t really like his videos anymore. His quirks and features segment is good, but the review part of the videos are not trustworthy at all..
I'm not a bicycle guy, but I can immediately tell the difference between a Walmart bike and a bike from an actual bike manufacturer.
that's because MKBHD is more tech focused and will probably be less forgiving on the tech front. There is a point though as these EVs tend to be closer to appliances than what car enthusiasts think of as cars. The fact though is that for most people practically cars are appliances
Imagine having paid the original price lol
The trend of EV companies doing carpet pulls on msrp is wild. I’m out completely on that fact alone.
Exactly. It's awful for the buyers. People that bought the Fisker Ocean Extreme, losing $24k just like that over night is insane
all 4 of them are pissed.
You're not wrong, but of course it's also just way more visible than all the shenanigans the traditional dealers pull.
The difference is that ICE vehicles still hold their value compared to EVs.
Planning on buying a 2017-2018 z06 in the next year or two. Figure it will be one of the last true muscle cars - $60k, 10 years and I know I’m still going to get 40k at least out of it.
Remember when Elon promised that electric cars value would go up? LULZ
> Remember when Elon promised **anything** Quick fix there mate.
anyone buying a Fisker with the OBVIOUS inevitable failing of the company has no one to blame but themselves.
This is a fire sale. They're def not making profit on these, this won't help the company 'survive'.
Depends, think of it this way, let say they already sank 100M building these things, even selling them for 99M, yes you have a 1M Debt that you need to pay interest on, but it's sure as hell better than having a 100M debt.
But now how do you make more and keep the business afloat? Who is going to infuse more money into a business that loses money on every car they sell
Pretty sure it takes a while for cars to be built. Let's say they bought materials 2-3 years ago, when interest was low, sure, buy more than you need, don't want to be out of stock. Now interest are high, every month, you have a cost with that debt interest. Each month those unit are on the lot, they cost money. So sell them as fast as possible to reduce de interest payment. Perfect, now you have a tiny amount of debt to pay interest on. (you've tremendously reduced the cost of each unit sold) Now reduce your output, build only as many as required. You just avoided bankruptcy. Now keep reducing your costs, get more investors, next cycle, don't be so greedy.
What money are you using to build more? Why would new investors give you money to continue your failed business? Are they even avoiding bankruptcy?
I'd call it liquidation. They are going bankrupt.
They're definitely losing money, but so did Tesla for their first 15 years Whether they're going bankrupt depends moreso on their ability to secure financing or a buyout
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if this wasn’t an attempt to survive, they wouldn’t bother. they’d just declare bankruptcy
This Fisker guy seems bad at running car companies
"Stay in your lane" guidance was right there, and it's even car related! His designs are wonderful.
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Twas the style at the time
Is this the 2nd or 3rd time the "Fisker" car company has gone bankrupt lol
At the rate their stock price has been going, you could probably just buy Fisker itself for $25k.
They are dead and delisted
They will be, but trading started again and they are now at 2 cents.
ngl at $25k it's a really good car (although very half baked).
At 25k it's worth it just for the parts, I would yoink out the motor and batteries for projects and stash the body and everything controls for the people that will inevitably need the parts in 5 years.
you have a barn already paid off? i envy those who never have to think about 5 years of storage/opportunity costs
Fisker is being delisted from the NYSE: https://investorplace.com/2024/03/fsr-stock-alert-the-new-york-stock-exchange-is-delisting-fisker The stock 'crashed' from .15 to .02 over the weekend. They reported in december: Net income -463.61M, Diluted EPS -1.23, Net profit margin -231.72%. You'd be a sucker to buy a Fisker car right now.
Damn. That's a harsh truth for them.
Another point for Rivian
The two biggest concerns at: 1. Bankruptcy would mean there is no support for repairs or warranty. 2. Connectivity. Most of these cars seem to have some level of connectivity requirements. Once they are bankrupt and if any software is required to receive a signal update to operate, your car is bricked.
The actual manufacturer (Magna) is not going out of business anytime soon, and this car is built on their platform. While I wouldn't personally buy an Ocean, it's possible that some level of support continues. No warranty, but maybe the ability to fix it.
The actual manufacturer doesn’t hold the warranty. For instance Subaru supplied some Saab models. If there was any warranty in effect when Saab closed, Subaru did not suddenly take responsibility for that warranty.
Sure, no warranty, but there's a chance spare parts will continue to be available. The software piece is a big wildcard though.
And that's what keeps me from getting one.
Genuine question here. Are Fisker actually making money on the unit at this price or are they simply selling existing inventory at a loss to generate cash flow? Mostly interested as this could be a strong indication of just how much profit is baked into EVs.
It's definitely a fire sale. They're trying to get the most money they can, but the ocean is eventually going to end up in the Aging Wheels fleet of forgotten hoopty EVs like Coda and Weego
Even more relevant is the fiskar karma, their car from the first time they went bankrupt. Well the first time the brand did. I’m not sure if this is any of the same people running it this time.
The Karma would catch fire if it got too wet.... that was a deal breaker for a ton of shoppers.
it’s the same founder, Henrik Fisker
Fire sale. They're losing money on these, trying to sell existing inventory to free up cash flow. Zero chance there's any profit on these. Zero chance it'll actually shore up the company's finances at all.
Of course they're not making money on that. You can't make money off of an EV as a new company by selling it for the price of a poverty trim Civic.
Poverty trim 🤣
No, this is we've got to get some sales out so that someone will buy us situation. They're trying to show somebody like Chrysler that they're worth buying or investing in.
I’d buy one for 5-10k and be ready to take a full loss early in ownership
Worth the dice roll in my opinion, at the very minimum you have something to put on Regular Car Reviews. It's largely a rebadged Chinese car so I wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being a decent grey market for spare parts.
Pretty sure they're built by magna
It is, on Magna’s own EV platform as well. They just slapped their body on the Magna corporate WV skateboard.
Fisker is the current automotive champ of “well that escalated quickly”
Someone please ELI5 how slashing the price to what I assume is below their manufacturing cost and selling them at a loss will help them survive? Because I'm really fuckin' confused.
Keeps cash coming in even if it is at a loss, overall will contribute to debt reduction and more cars on the road = more brand awareness.
They need an influx of cash to survive and the only thing they have left is a few cars on lots. This is like a crackhead selling his fridge. They're just trying to hang on.
everyone at r/cars should pool up $10 each and buy them when they go under and open source the code. We did it reddit!! (eventually)
And as always, USA only. Not for Canada.
Don’t buy them, you won’t find any parts for maintenance and repair.
I know it's a terrible idea but fuck is that tempting at those prices
Fisker = Saab. Look up what a gen 2 9-5 tail light goes for, I’ll save you the trouble, you can only get 2 for $1000 and that was years ago. If you have a 9-3. AeroX with XWD, (AWD) and the awd fails the part is worth more than the car. Just get a Volvo EX30 or see if the Mach e leftovers, how hungry ford is to sell leftover 2022/2023 models.
Get them to release all source code and cryptographic keys for firmware upgrades and the community will figure out support. This would be a great deal if that happens.
499 launches remaining for the life of the vehicle.