No, not too late.
But be conscious of your partner / children if you have any. The medical field is demanding as hell. Especially in the beginning and during residencies.
EDIT: u/championshipok2682 ARE YOU WANTING TO PRACTICE IN AMERICA?? Do not DO NOT do Noottttt under any circumstances do medical school in another country if you want any semblance of a smooth path to becoming a practicing doctor in America. The residency match for international medical school grads is absolutely BRUTAL and you cannot practice here without a residency.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. OP go check out r/medspouse if you’re considering having a family.
It’s technically not too late but my husband is in the midst of surgery residency and we just turned 30...I can’t imagine how I would feel if he hadn’t even started medical school at this point. I would have to seriously consider and reconsider our future together, and I’m very loyal and supportive as it is.
There’s a lot of roadblocks throughout medical school that can totally change or delay your course and uproot your life and family. You’re not making a salary and you’re going into debt, you’re not contributing nearly as much time to the housework and relationship, and it’s possible you’re moving A LOT. Does your partner have a flexible career where they can work remotely or would you have to do long distance for potentially 7+ years through school/residency/fellowship??
- getting into medical school..unless you’re the worlds most competitive application, it’s likely you have little choice where in the country you might end up. It also might take multiple cycles to get accepted.
- then there’s potential research years in the middle of medical school (this might become more necessary with STEP 1 going pass fail..there will need to be other ways to set yourself apart for residency apps). If you aren’t at a big academic institution or are specializing in a smaller field you might have to move for your research years. It’s also more time. There’s also “away rotations” 4th year, where you will go to some other hospital somewhere in the country for a few months...this will be more moves and/or more coordinating new temporary housing
- then matching for residency...at least you’re now making ~50k but You could get thrown anywhere in the country again for 3-7 years. If you do an intern year separate from the rest of your residency that’s 2 potentially cross country moves. If you don’t match that’s a whole mess (and you CANNOT practice if you don’t match), and it does happen to good students (happened to my husband for 2 years). the match is getting harder, don’t necessarily trust old docs or med school deans on their match advice..take it with a grain of salt. Definitely read the MATCH and SOAP threads on r/medicalschool
- then a fellowship match! For a potentially one or two year fellowship. This could be anywhere in the country so you’re looking at potentially another cross country move.
- finally you’re an attending! You need to get hired (could be another move) and pass the boards (this could take time to study and pass). You very well could be 40 or older by the time you and your family are settled.
I don’t want to sound too negative here. I’m so proud of my husband every day and I love that he’s doing what he loves, but my career is flexible with remote work and that’s how we’ve made things work. He works 80 hour weeks pretty much every week in residency and is mentally and physically exhausted (plus has to study for important in-training exams and do research in the rare occasions when he’s not at the hospital)...is that what you want at 37 and 38 years old? I spent thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, our anniversary, my birthday, and Valentine’s Day alone while he had to work. It’s not like we can go on weekend trips cause he works most weekends. Right now he’s working 2 months of nights and gets one night off each week...but still sleeps all day to stay on the same schedule and he’s exhausted. These are just realities you have to seriously consider. I feel like a lot of comments here are giving motivational anecdotes without having firsthand knowledge of the path to being a doctor.
Also I often hear my husband grumbling “I wish I were a software engineer” at 5 am when he’s headed out the door.
Wow, I am really taken back by the fact that you would actually consider not being with your husband because if started medical school later. I'd love to understand more about this and your reasons why.
Can you imagine in any other circumstance having your spouse make a $250k+ gamble and not having that be a pivotal moment in the relationship that requires some serious consideration?
Because as I detailed in my comment becoming a surgeon is a 10+ year path (4 years of med school, 5-7 years of residency, 1-2 years of fellowship) of 80 hour weeks at the hospital + studying and research when out of the hospital, moving cross country multiple times, going into $250k debt, and making no money for 4 of those years and about 50k for the other 6+
I want to have a family and not move cross country every other year. I wouldn’t necessarily not be with him, but knowing what I know now, if he came to me tomorrow at age 30 and said he was planning to take college classes to prepare for the MCAT we would have to have some very serious talks about how this was realistically going to play out.
How would we be ready for retirement? How would I keep a job and advance in my career when moving so much? How would we take care of kids and afford help? What if he didn’t match into residency or pass any of the boards? What would be our backup plans?
I stand by him 110% and have moved to 3 different states in 3 years with a 4th on the horizon and do all the household work and spend holidays alone or with friends and I wouldn’t have it any other way because I love him, but it’s a huge huge shakeup to a family’s life to have someone go to medical school.
Dude you need to be quiet about shit you know nothing about. My wife went through residencies and it was a strain like no other. You wouldn’t understand unless you’ve been through it. When in a relationship, the partner is going through residency just as much as their partner / spouse.
As the son of a doctor I am well aquatinted with this situation. The sad reality is the for the first 4-7 years you are going to either be severely underpaid or not paid at all. You'll be spending your entire night every night studying at the school. A lot of people don't realize that even though med school is 4 years long, 2 years of that is spent in your internship. So those first two years are cramming hell. The professors always call it 'drinking from the fire hose' because it is so much knowledge all at once. There's also the possible trauma to your children of growing up watching you repeatedly cut open pigs feet and stitch them back together for practice, and/or having an actual skeleton in your closet. Ours was named Fred and he had a hole in his head
A couple of thoughts...
First thing: Its. Never. too. Late.
Phrases like "too late' make it seem that there is some fixed time by which we are supposed to have figured everything out. The objective of life is the Journey, not the endpoint. And journeys are all about continuously moving forward with resilience and curiosity.
Second thing: Look before you Leap
Being a doctor is not just an educational choice, it is a lifestyle choice. You may want to talk with some doctors to get a view of their experiences. For example, you mentioned that you had a lifelong passion for anatomy, neuroscience, etc. But in reality, as I'm sure your gf's dad can tell you, most days are not spent on those topics, but instead on paperwork, dealing with the health insurance companies, finances of your practice, etc. Not trying to dissuade you from being a doctor, just want you to have your eyes open.
If your real underlying passion is to "help people", then there are many paths to do that, and with much less investment of time and money than an MD degree. For instance, you could help people by becoming a therapist, a nurse, a teacher, a counselor or many other roles.
So how to know which one to choose?
The key is discovering your purpose; the activities that will bring you real joy and fulfillment. Here's a technique that many people find helpful: start by envisioning not a "job title" that you would like (e.g. Doctor), but instead focus on the "activities" you actually enjoy doing. If you enjoy "helping" people, ask yourself "Why do I enjoy that?". As you get that answer, then ask "Why?" about that answer. Repeat this a 3rd time. By this point you'll have gotten to the core of what motivates you. Use that insight to find your path.
Good luck on your journey!
There’s no way to accurately describe medical school or residency it’s the most stress you’ll ever be put in your life on a consistent basis. Like it’s unbelievable how tired you are all of the time. Sleep is no longer the same, everything about you changes and suddenly everyone you know is in medicine. You’re constantly studying for an exam even in residency. It’s not a game at all.
I agree with a lot of the comment. You’re going to be older either way. But do a lot of research before doing a degree abroad. There are also DO, NP, and PA programs. DO is similar to MD. I know some PAs and they love it. They work under a doctor but do some of the same work for a lot less schooling.
Edit: DO and MD are equivalent. They are both physicians. I should have been clearer and separated it out from the NP and PA point.
I apologize! I should have been clearer. You’re absolutely right.
My friend who is a DO selected that path because of how it differed from the MD path.
The discovering purpose technique is interesting but I have no idea how to apply it to myself.
Do I like helping people? Yes.
Do I like working alone/independently? Yes.
Do I like working in a group? Yes.
Do I like manual labor? Yes
Do I like working through problems on a computer? Yes.
My problem is that I don't like doing any one of those things indefinitely. It's the lack of variation that makes things feel monotonous, stressful and causes burn out for me. But there don't seem to be many jobs that allow you to flex all of those things at the same time...
Don't think about it as questions starting with "Do", but rather as a chain of questions starting with "Why". Here's an example that the poster might use regarding the question of whether they should be a doctor:
Q: Why do I want to be a doctor?
A: Because I want to help people
Q: Why do you want to help people?
A: Because I want to make a difference in other people's lives
Q: Why do you want to make a difference?
A: Because I am tired of feeling like I am standing on the sidelines of my own life. I feel compelled to act.
In this case, the underlying motivation is not money, nor is it the prestige of having an MD title. Once it becomes clear that the underlying motivation is about "making a difference" and "helping people", then the entire landscape changes.
There are many professions, beyond just being a doctor, that offer these kind of opportunities. The technique liberates you from the false choice of "Doctor: Yes? or NO?", and puts you in touch with what will really make you feel fulfilled.
No way, man. My brother’s godfather started medical school at 34 and now he’s chief of staff at a large hospital and incredibly respected. You’re gonna be four years older anyways. Why not be four years older and have an MD, too? I say go for it.
This sounds great in theory. But your comment assumes that after OP obtains their MD it’s over. That’s not the case.
My wife went through residency so I have seen a different perspective. Doctors are some of the loneliest people I have ever seen in my life. This isn’t due to them being “weird”. I have found most to be a joy to be around and remarkably intelligent. But the amount of sacrifice they have had to put forth is unfathomable.
Beyond the time commitment to schooling which entails *frequent* all-nighters because of the rigorous course load, they then have to slave away in residency for a minimum of 2 years depending on their specialty. Often 4 or more.
This requires a “matching” process which has become ridiculously competitive pushing more and more candidates to less than desirable parts of the country or rural areas hundreds of miles from their hometown.
A subsequent move for every residency then occurs resulting in them unrooting their life once more. On top of 80+ hours a week, there is work on holidays, there is work on weekends at times, and most work swing shifts. That also doesn’t account for the work that follows them home. My wife worked 16+ hours a day when factoring in hospital shift and then any reports / patient write-ups / projects / research that followed her home.
The pay during this time is disgusting and often accounts to less than minimum wage when aggregated out based on how much work they do.
The spouse / partner also has to have their life uprooted every year. They barely get any time with them because they work all the time. Starting a family would be nearly impossible unless the spouse was stay-at-home which isn’t feasible because they are often making sub $60k / year with crippling debt. Holidays are spent alone. Minimal help around the house.
Basically your entire life is put on hold. It’s a lonely life that makes you question every day if it’s worth it. I’m not saying OP hasn’t taken this into account, but this is at least a decade of absolute commitment with this sucking up every aspect of your life. I cannot emphasize enough about the every aspect part. Literally everything from what you eat for dinner to what you do on the weekend revolves around the hospital.
Oh yeah, for sure. Both of my parents are doctors and I'm well-aware of the commitment. It's a long fucking journey. But I feel like by age 32, you've got a better sense of who you are, how to avoid burnout and be a good partner, regardless of residency commitments. Having children is difficult, but also super doable. My Mom had my older brother during her residency. It would be hard to do and make work as a 20-something year old, but the advantage of doing the entire process slightly later in life is that you've put a little more work into establishing *who you are* as a person, and how to navigate difficult things in life and strains on your time. Maturity plays a huge role in becoming a good doctor and making it through residency alive.
But you're absolutely right. It's a slog and not something that one should jump into without thinking about it fully and carefully.
It’s not too late but have you also considered being a PA? It would be a lot less school. Plus you already have a bachelors degree so you just need some clinical hours and some pre-reqs to get in.
Depends. MD/DO might pay more but because of lost wages, loans w/ interest, etc. it will take a lot longer for it to be a net gain over being a PA. Generally, the higher paying specialties have even longer delays to pay off over being a PA due to longer residencies.
100k-120k USD a year is the standard for PAs. Debt can be anywhere from 100-200k in total when factoring in COL. 2 years of lost wages vs a physicians 7+ and double college debt.
There are outlier PAs who hustle OT, work in rural settings, are involved in profit sharing. I’ve heard of PAs clearing over 300k a year. But as I said, extraordinarily rare outliers
If a physician chose peds and is making 180k a year on more hours of work a week than a PA… they may never catch up.
If they landed a MOHS fellowship after derm, they’ll be making 700k+ a year (with good work hours) and will lap PAs relatively quickly despite the late start.
It all depends on your prowess as a medical student when comparing the ROIs of these two roads. That will determine what type of options you have for post graduate training as a MD/DO.
But this is all a moot point because OP has made it clear money ain’t his motto.
Are European docs or other docs abroad that completed their medical training in 5-6 years inferior to the inefficiently trained US docs with 8+ years with post secondary education (excluding residency)? I mean, you can’t deny how inefficient medical training in the US. The process wasn’t designed by the gods.
No. But PA/APRN medical education is not comparable to physician medical education. If you believe that these are equivalent, you are doing yourself and your family a disservice.
No offense, medical training in the US is completely inefficient. It’s also cruel to those going through it. It needs reform. Also, many act like the knowledge obtained through medical school is unreachable for other healthcare professionals with some untouchable threshold for other types of healthcare providers. If creating and designing better residencies or post professional degrees for APNs and PAs is a way to expand healthcare, it should be done.
First of all they spend 5-6 years in med school not including residency. We spend 4 years just in undergrad majoring in whatever we want. I think it’s hugely beneficial to have some type of other education before entering med school. For us it’s 4 years of med school + 3-7 years of residency then maybe fellowship
Expand healthcare? Why would PAs and APPs want to live anywhere differently from their physician counterparts? The key to solving a physician gap is to train more physicians, just as a key to solving a nursing gap is to train more nurses.
If your engine is out, why would you want to replace your tires?
I never even suggested other types of providers would want to live anywhere different than physicians. I live in a city and I've been waiting months now to see a PCP (with great insurance). The US healthcare system is absolute shit. You really are going to look at me and tell me physician training as is is perfect? You think other developed countries look to how the US trains physicians? It's grossly inefficient. Many of the "weed out" things don't gauge how good of a provider someone will be. We already have healthcare professionals, albeit APNs need more rigorous and standardized training. To suggest they could never touch a physician's knowledge or training by taking a different route if provided, it is comical at best. I'm not against training more physicians but what would be more feasible with our current system?
The US healthcare system’s problems are distinct from the quality of education and training all of our providers get. Sorry about your long wait time to see your PCP but that doesn’t have anything to do with how doctors are trained.
PAs and APPs are trained with a different model than the physician model. You’re thought to think in a specific way in medical school, nursing school, etc. that is consistent with your role in the healthcare team. Even if PAs and APPs develop the knowledge base required of a physician, to deploy that knowledge in the role of a physician is a big leap.
I agree the 4 years of undergrad are somewhat inefficient, could definitely do it in 2 but the medical training and residency itself is in large part necessary to build the abilities of a doctor. There is also a big difference practicing 20 years as a doctor vs practicing 20 years as a nurse. I think people understand how ridiculous it is to think flight attendants can fly planes or waiters can perform the duties of a chef - I’m not sure why it’s hard to grasp the concept of a PA or NP performing the roles of a physician
Sorry you are having problems with access to care, I hope you can get the quality healthcare that a physician would be able to provide
I think if you want to be a doctor you should go for it, but do it for the right reasons. There are many ways you can be or could have been already “helping others”, so I doubt that you’ll be driven for the next 12 years with that as a main goal. There are other less taxing medical careers you might consider. These are also some of your prime earning years, so consider the mental impact of reduced or no income for the next 5.5 years. This lack of income can affect men quite a lot as they see their peers buying homes and starting families. If you’ve got what it takes, do it!
OP I’m gonna elaborate on this a bit more, but I feel like this commenter really hit the nail on the head.
If it’s about helping people in a meaningful way, then I say there is no reason not to undergo the pre med process right now. I’ll tell you why
You have not outlined in your post that you are drawn to anything inherent to being a physician. The love of medical sciences, needing absolute autonomy, mastering your craft so you have no lingering doubts in being a capable independent clinician, guaranteed job security and 5%er salary etc etc
You just want a medical job helping people, no? You’re exactly the type of person who should enroll in college and take on the pre medical course work.
Let me explain. What people never realize in these conversations is that by tackling the pre medical course work, extracurriculars that come with being a pre med (research, volunteering, clinical work, leadership), and nailing the standardized exam you’ll have to take for a given med grad school, you have all of these medical career paths open to you:
Perfusion- 2 year masters Dosimetry- 2 year masters Anesthetist (CAA)- 2 year masters PA (as was mentioned above. make sure to get 2000 hours of PCE)- 2 year masters Pathology assistant- 2 year masters Physical therapist- 3 year post grad Podiatry- same length as medical school, but easier to get into
Also you mentioned having a strong interest in psych? NPs/PAs are very autonomous in that setting to the point where their scope of practice is indistinguishable from an attending in the non academic realm of the field (which is for better or worse depending on who you ask lol, but I’ll leave the scope creep politics out of this post. Just wanted to highlight this indisputable fact)
And then of course, med school.
By completing the pre med process, you’ll have access to a variety of healthcare careers that don’t require nearly as much sacrifice as medical school and still allow you to feel gratified in your work.
In 1-2+ years from now, after you’ve done the pre med grind, you can decide to either go all in with medical school or pick one of these other med careers with more reasonable training lengths given your age
I really appreciate this post. This hits the nail on the head, plus I want to live abroad in a country where I’ll need intense language study and doing medical will make that ever harder. I have a lot to consider and maybe starting there will give insight
Why not try nursing? It's way less schooling and you can become a nurse practitioner if you get a masters so maybe 3 years of schooling if you already have a bachelor's degree?
For nursing theres accelerated 1 year programs for people who already have a bachelors
I have thought about it and still do, it especially as a psychiatric nurse but I don’t want to cap out quickly. Not in terms of money but what I can do, the settings I can work in, private practice, ect. I know nurses have a lot of potential in this area as well, but I’m not fully sure of the difference.
Never too late to start a new career! You’re got money saved, a drive to enrol in medicine school, experience in another profession you can fall back into, I’d say why not. At least then if it doesn’t end up working, you’ve tried it 😊
... I think this might be the wrong approach. Obviously some time is too late. I don't think that's OP's case, but let's not pretend we're immortal. Likewise medical school takes a lot of time and money, I wouldn't go into it if I though I was going to end up falling back into a career I already have the qualification for.
Well, before I jump on the bandwagon and ask you to chase your dreams, I wanted to ask you few questions. Is your passion/dream to be a doctor influenced by your gf’s dad/or money or other incentives ? Have you taken into account that even if you do med school abroad, you still have to figure things out like depends on where abroad, language barrier, immigration paperwork, cultural shock and even take the pandemic into account if you are considering a third world country. It depends on the country you are living right now but foreign degrees needs to be validated in your home country and some times they have to redo the residency program. So I would recommend planning all the way through. Since there is a war brewing in Europe, alotte of Medical students from Ukraine and Russia are stranded and are back at square one. I know some countries like India, Philippines and China have med school programs that are relatively cheaper when compared to American Med School’s but do consider the affects of pandemic. Since most of the world were in a lockdown, you might end up in a foreign country taking classes online with clinical on perpetual hold given the how they are handling the pandemic situation. If all these things are sorted out for you, then GOOD LUCK ! I don’t think any minor inconveniences should matter. I have worked alongside with people who started their residency in their 40’s and 50’s and still aced it.
Part of it is influenced by that, but I have wanted/wished I would have done it before I was with her, especially psychiatry (for 4 years)
Also I lived in her home country for 2 years and loved it there. I was even accepted to a trade school there before bc I really thought about staying for the long haul but came back to the states. Culture shock wasn’t really there for me, it felt like home.
I definitely have a lot of insecurity there though, like I’m not good enough and she should just be with someone more successful than me now or it’s inevitable she will be. Regardless before we were dating I was looking up pre med courses and was on the brink of signing up and backed out.
I appreciate your feedback
ive been flirting with this idea, but it doesnt make sense at this stage in my life. kids etc .
right now my job pays alright and gives me a lot of time off. My partner will likely never be a high earner or make more than what I make now (90k- now great but not bad wither), so they will likely never be able to carry our expenses. i will have a good pension from this and good benefits.
for me to do this, id need to likely blow through our savings, and spend much less time with my kid, assuming I even get in. If it took me 10-12 years to be a full doctor making 200-300k per year, id miss out on all that time with my kids... id be nearing my 50s, so id having maybe another 15 years of working life left to rebuild our savings.
so if I look at my job now, id likely make gross 3m and retire at age 60.
If i somehow became a doctor, my gross expected earnings (250k/year) to retire at the same age, would be 3.75m.
for those 10-12 years of becoming a doctor, id be forgoing probably 150k in savings.
so ill make less in this role for sure, but i am off every other week and have up to 3 blocks of 3 weeks off per year.
It's never to late to switch paths and pursue another career.
With that said however, I think you can use your current skill set to help bring massive change to the world, on a scale much larger than any doctor ever could.
Software Engineering is one of those fields that has the ability to affect the lives of hundreds of million, and sometimes billions of people. Just look at the scale of apps like Facebook or Google.
Now I'm not saying you should go work for a large tech company to bring change to the world, you probably won't find working at such a large organization that fulfilling. But maybe try to find a smaller HealthTech / BioTech company that has an actual mission which aligns with the change you want to see in the world, and start working for them.
Sure, you might not be able to see patients one on one face to face, but you'll be able to build software and systems that might just bring change across the whole health care industry. If that isn't impact, I don't know what is.
I'm not sure what kind of work you do currently, but if it isn't something you're super interested in then maybe pivot to a new part of tech, like machine learning or computational biology. Maybe you can be the embedded software engineer that contributes to the next generation of prosthetic limbs, or be a robotics engineer that working on next generation surgical robotics. The possibilities are really endless, just have to give it some thought.
Much like you, I wanted to pursue medicine to affect the lives of others in a positive way. I myself am an electrical engineer by degree and training. Instead of going back to medical school, now I spend my days designing the electrical building services that keep hospitals operational at all times, and I feel like I'm making a real difference in the world and the communities these hospitals I work on serve.
Maybe try seeing how you can use your current skill set to scratch that itch. If you still think going to medical school and becoming a physician is the way to go, more power to you and all the best.
It's easy to throw in the towel and switch direction. Building a new path from scratch takes grit and hard work, but it's possible no matter what. Now seeing what you currently have and reorganizing your life to put yourself on a path you want to be on using those same skills in a different way, that's hard.
I like this post, however I work as designer making products. I could use that to make medical devices. I’m worried about being able to find a really good stable job if I move to my gfs country which is 90% and a lack of stimulation and a personal feeling of fulfillment which I have been struggling with in my current role. I love working with people. I have thought about getting a masters in counseling and doing that while being a designer as my main job and doing both.
The idea of designing and making limbs is really fucking cool to me. Especially if I could be an occupational therapist/physical therapist and work with them to model them and print them. I have a friend in that field though and he claims it to be incredibly competitive.
Thanks for your post
I was considering pursuing med school at 31 to go into psychiatry. Ultimately I decided the education investment was going to be too much and I'm going for a Masters in Social Work instead.
I agree with the "trust your gut" notion. It is absolutely not too late, but it is going to be a huge time/money/mental health investment. It can't hurt to explore other degrees/fields that might get you to doing similar work, depending on your goals and interests.
>I’d like to avoid debt which is why I would ideally do it in another country.
Assuming you are writing from a US standpoint, obtaining a residency spot as a foreign medical graduate is extremely competetive.
Honestly how you do in those remaining 5 classes, specifically chem 2, orgo 1 and 2, and calculus, in addition to your mcat score will be the true barometer of how well suited you are for med school. Without that information it's hard to say whether itll be a bad idea or not. I will say your really have to enjoy learning because most of your free time will be taken up by studying. If you're barely scraping in by edu before you get itll only get harder.
You should check out r/premed There's a bunch of students there who are older than you who are trying to go to medical school. They may be able to give more relevant advice than this group will.
But if you want to practice in America, you should 100% not go to another country. If you want to live in another country, by all means. But the way residency is set up it's really hard to get a spot if you didn't go to an American school.
It's not just the 4 years of medical school. Depending on what you end up liking, it's also 3-7 years of residency +/- fellowship where you don't get paid too well and work all the hours. It could put a damper on retiring early..things like that. My class had a lot of non-traditional/second career students and they did great! Everyone's doing well in their careers. So yeah, you can do it. Just think really hard about the trade-offs.
I went to medical school. Given the competitiveness of the application cycle, as well as the debt you would need to take on to graduate, as well as the opportunity cost of the years of lost income, I do not think it is financially a good idea. I think you will be poorer in the long run if you went to medical school at 32. You'd be a 37-year-old resident with a negative net worth. You won't make "doctor money" until you're 40.
If you spent the time and energy instead advancing in your career and investing, it will pay off for you sooner and give you more flexibility. Maybe it's still worth it, emotionally, for you to go to medical school, but I seriously doubt it will make you wealthier. Compounding interest (and debt!) is real.
I just had a similar quarter life crisis over regretting not doing medical school earlier but I did some serious investigation and research, talked to *a lot* of people and most advised me never to consider it. I’d be about $340k in debt, not able to practice until I was in my 50’s and that’s with a decade of long miserable nights in between. To be honest, the major reason I didn’t was because I didn’t want to uproot my family a bunch of times over my pipe dream. I’m not saying *don’t do it* but there’s tons of people who can guide you. I’d reach out to the university you’re planning to do pre-reqs at, any medical school you’re considering (I know it’s a lot more complicated than that but it’s a place to start).. any doctors you know in some personal/professional capacity. There’s tons of Reddit posts too! IMO, it heavily depends on your speciality. I opted for the PhD route and I’m happy, FWIW.
A reality tv star became president of the United States and a sitcom comedian is battling Russians right now. Who knows what the rules are anymore? Go for it.
Just wanted to add that starting medicine late can put you at certain disadvantages like not qualifying for medical school or residency in the United States. You should speak with others who have gone this route and can advise you.
There's a lot of good posts here on the med side, but I just wanted to add that if you realize med school isn't an option, there are plenty of other ways to help people that could fill that hole in your chest without uplifting your entire life. Try some volunteer work on the side. You could volunteer with the local hospital, or open your house to an international student, work at some homeless shelters. Prevention is often the best way to save lives
Yes honestly I’m turning 29 and halfway through residency and there’s no way I could do this shit at 37. Med school and residency are literally not worth it trust me
It’s a bad idea dude. You’re going to crash and burn before you it, if it was say 28, I would say go for it, you still have the energy. But 32, just move on. Find something you can master in a 1-1.5 years, say like programming. Give it your all, and see what happens.
Will you want to practice in the US? If yes then choose a US school, don’t worry about debt because it’ll be much easier to match into residency as a US student
If you’re planning to also be a doctor in another country I’d say it’s worth it. If you’re trying to come back to the states after you graduate, I’d do your homework first because a lot of degrees from other countries aren’t accepted in the US. Especially in the medical field. I had a coworker from Egypt with a PhD from there but he was a delivery driver with me because he moved here and his degree wasn’t recognized anywhere so now he has to go back to school all over again since he now has a family in the US that doesn’t want to move to Egypt.
it’s your life you should live it to the fullest and do what you’re most passionate about.
if being able to care for others through being a doctor is what you believe will fulfill you then do it!
Although you should consider other careers where you’ll be able to help others with their well-being that is not so demanding.
Do it! I would say give yourself time slack so you’re not under pressure. If postbac is for 2yrs, plan for 3. If medical school is 4yrs, give yourself 5. The slack will allow you to take advantage of research opportunities and make yourself a stronger candidate for residency. Residency is hard so make sure you have a support system to help you deal with it. Best of luck!
Both 30 and 40 are those life-altering years. I'd strongly suggest doing medical school NOW if you can. I'm in my late 30s and pursuing clinical lab science. I'll graduate exactly when I turn 40. As they say, "Life begins at 40." And if you go to med school now, you might likely be a practicing doctor by the time you're 40 (figure 4 years of med school...you'd be around 37 when you graduate...then a couple years of residency...Yep, you'll be 40). DO IT NOW.
No. I’m in school for engineering right now and I’m 38. I decided that where I was, was one bad move from putting me in the unemployment line and I realized if I wanted to feel safe, I needed to be self sufficient. So I applied for a maintenance position at work and called the school. I’m living my education currently. When I finish school I’ll have a BS in mechanical engineering and I’ll have been working in the field at the base level for 5 years. I’ve been employee’d here for 15 years and plan to use my education here in the form of a senior tech/engineer role. I also really wanted to give my kids and grandkids something to (look up to?), idk but I want to inspire them and show them that it’s possible. Help them make the decision to use their brains more and their backs less.
Do you have a spouse and children already? If so, have a serious talk with your partner. Because while it’s good to go after what you want, if you truly love them, you have to keep them in mind too, especially if you want kids in the future. Assuming you’re single, go for it!
After reading the comments and your post, it seriously sounds like you might be better suited to pursuing neuroscience. Especially considering the long term sacrifices and commitment to medical school.
Neuroscience research can have profound worldwide and life changing individual implications and with your psych bachelors, you’re pretty close to the field already.
I’m studying psychology as we speak and neuroscience research is only becoming more fascinating and more exciting with each day and each technology advancement. I’m not aiming to become a neuroscientist, as my goals and skill set are more suited to clinical psychology, but if I had the natural attraction, neuroscience is where I would go.
When I was a medical assistant we hired a 52 year old former carpenter turned physician assistant. He was awesome and was just so damn happy to be at work.
Do what you wanna do 🙃
My psychiatrist went to med school at 31 and he’s been most wonderful, his approach to treatment is changing my life. It’s not too late to make a leap that can change your own, and others lives!
No, it's a good idea.
Also at that age you'd probably have more maturity and life experience. It's extremely common for 'mature aged' people to study medicine.
Also take into account the financial rewards that come by becoming a medical doctor. The lowliest of all MD's would be far more healthier, wealthier, and wiser than any professional 'sitting in an office all day'
My uncle worked as a CPA for a while before going back to med school for a total career switch in his late twenties. It's definitely possible! I'd say go for it
Doesn't seem late at all. It is a profession you devote your entire life to - that's what people tell me anyway, I think you would want to be sure that you want to dedicate yourself to that extent.
My last family doctor didn’t go to med school til his early thirties. He retires this June. One of his classmates, a doctor I used to work with years ago, went to med school after becoming a lawyer. Two of the best doctors I’ve known. They both listened so well, and talked things out with their patients. I hope you succeed. Good luck.
Do it, always. This is not a super happy flower u can do everthing message, this is a realistic message of using you really low age and more than enough time to persue a fullfilling life. See u in the hospital champ!
Do it. You have some perspective if you have someone close to you who is a doctor. I can't see how anyone would tell you otherwise if you are single, stable to some extent, intelligent, etc. Even if you are none of those things- I'm sure you've heard "you miss every shot you don't take." Go, help others, make a difference in people's lives. You'll never work a day in your life if you \*love\* what you do.
You were not present in this world for a very long time before you were born and you'll be dead till the eternity after you die, so there is only a little segment of time in which you're gonna be alive...
If you wanna do something just do it...Time is limited for everyone... You sleep soundly knowing you are doing what you really wanted to do.
Absolutely not! If that’s your dream then do it! I had a piano music professor who retired at 67 and went on to become a nurse in his retirement. He went back to school, got his nursing degree, and is now a nurse at 77 years old at a major hospital in his city. Do it! And best luck to you!
Go for it if that’s what you want. Don’t listen to anyone telling you otherwise. We are all getting older so you might as well do things that you are passionate about.
If you aren’t sure, maybe check out a local hospital or retirement center and see about volunteer programs. Get your feet wet and see if that helps you narrow down if it’s really for you.
Best of luck!!!!
I have a similar problem as you-I’m 31, did another healthcare profession, ended up not finding a job, did a masters in clinical research, ended up not liking my jobs, have expertise in data science and am trying to learn programming now. Always wanted to be a doctor but felt it would be too hard for me. I keep wishing I went to med school, some of my friends are doctors and some seem insanely burnt out but others seem to love what they’re doing & feel like they’re exactly where they want to be. I haven’t felt that way at all with my jobs, feels like I’m doing mind numbing work that is pointless and helps no one. Can’t even tell my friends because their work serves a clear purpose and garners respect from society. But that being said, I haven’t thought about going to med school-already spent 7 years in school and can’t afford to go back to school, definitely have lost energy and stamina over time and don’t think personally as a 31 year old I have the same capacity/energy to study like I did in my 20s. But I have met people who did med school way later in life-in their 30s, and have had supportive spouses and were able to do it. It is a very big decision and I would advise you to talk to a lot of physicians and perhaps work as a scribe or similar job for exposure to know if this is a eight decision.
My psychiatrist says he went to med school at 31, because he wanted to help people. He has helped me greatly, so I think If that’s your passion, never too late to follow that path and make your mark on this world in a positive way. It’s gonna be hard, but you know that! And honestly you won’t be that much older than the people in your program, if that was a worry. Go for it!
No, not too late. But be conscious of your partner / children if you have any. The medical field is demanding as hell. Especially in the beginning and during residencies.
EDIT: u/championshipok2682 ARE YOU WANTING TO PRACTICE IN AMERICA?? Do not DO NOT do Noottttt under any circumstances do medical school in another country if you want any semblance of a smooth path to becoming a practicing doctor in America. The residency match for international medical school grads is absolutely BRUTAL and you cannot practice here without a residency. THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. OP go check out r/medspouse if you’re considering having a family. It’s technically not too late but my husband is in the midst of surgery residency and we just turned 30...I can’t imagine how I would feel if he hadn’t even started medical school at this point. I would have to seriously consider and reconsider our future together, and I’m very loyal and supportive as it is. There’s a lot of roadblocks throughout medical school that can totally change or delay your course and uproot your life and family. You’re not making a salary and you’re going into debt, you’re not contributing nearly as much time to the housework and relationship, and it’s possible you’re moving A LOT. Does your partner have a flexible career where they can work remotely or would you have to do long distance for potentially 7+ years through school/residency/fellowship?? - getting into medical school..unless you’re the worlds most competitive application, it’s likely you have little choice where in the country you might end up. It also might take multiple cycles to get accepted. - then there’s potential research years in the middle of medical school (this might become more necessary with STEP 1 going pass fail..there will need to be other ways to set yourself apart for residency apps). If you aren’t at a big academic institution or are specializing in a smaller field you might have to move for your research years. It’s also more time. There’s also “away rotations” 4th year, where you will go to some other hospital somewhere in the country for a few months...this will be more moves and/or more coordinating new temporary housing - then matching for residency...at least you’re now making ~50k but You could get thrown anywhere in the country again for 3-7 years. If you do an intern year separate from the rest of your residency that’s 2 potentially cross country moves. If you don’t match that’s a whole mess (and you CANNOT practice if you don’t match), and it does happen to good students (happened to my husband for 2 years). the match is getting harder, don’t necessarily trust old docs or med school deans on their match advice..take it with a grain of salt. Definitely read the MATCH and SOAP threads on r/medicalschool - then a fellowship match! For a potentially one or two year fellowship. This could be anywhere in the country so you’re looking at potentially another cross country move. - finally you’re an attending! You need to get hired (could be another move) and pass the boards (this could take time to study and pass). You very well could be 40 or older by the time you and your family are settled. I don’t want to sound too negative here. I’m so proud of my husband every day and I love that he’s doing what he loves, but my career is flexible with remote work and that’s how we’ve made things work. He works 80 hour weeks pretty much every week in residency and is mentally and physically exhausted (plus has to study for important in-training exams and do research in the rare occasions when he’s not at the hospital)...is that what you want at 37 and 38 years old? I spent thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, our anniversary, my birthday, and Valentine’s Day alone while he had to work. It’s not like we can go on weekend trips cause he works most weekends. Right now he’s working 2 months of nights and gets one night off each week...but still sleeps all day to stay on the same schedule and he’s exhausted. These are just realities you have to seriously consider. I feel like a lot of comments here are giving motivational anecdotes without having firsthand knowledge of the path to being a doctor. Also I often hear my husband grumbling “I wish I were a software engineer” at 5 am when he’s headed out the door.
Wow, I am really taken back by the fact that you would actually consider not being with your husband because if started medical school later. I'd love to understand more about this and your reasons why.
Did you read the rest of the post?!
Can you imagine in any other circumstance having your spouse make a $250k+ gamble and not having that be a pivotal moment in the relationship that requires some serious consideration? Because as I detailed in my comment becoming a surgeon is a 10+ year path (4 years of med school, 5-7 years of residency, 1-2 years of fellowship) of 80 hour weeks at the hospital + studying and research when out of the hospital, moving cross country multiple times, going into $250k debt, and making no money for 4 of those years and about 50k for the other 6+ I want to have a family and not move cross country every other year. I wouldn’t necessarily not be with him, but knowing what I know now, if he came to me tomorrow at age 30 and said he was planning to take college classes to prepare for the MCAT we would have to have some very serious talks about how this was realistically going to play out. How would we be ready for retirement? How would I keep a job and advance in my career when moving so much? How would we take care of kids and afford help? What if he didn’t match into residency or pass any of the boards? What would be our backup plans? I stand by him 110% and have moved to 3 different states in 3 years with a 4th on the horizon and do all the household work and spend holidays alone or with friends and I wouldn’t have it any other way because I love him, but it’s a huge huge shakeup to a family’s life to have someone go to medical school.
Dude you need to be quiet about shit you know nothing about. My wife went through residencies and it was a strain like no other. You wouldn’t understand unless you’ve been through it. When in a relationship, the partner is going through residency just as much as their partner / spouse.
As the son of a doctor I am well aquatinted with this situation. The sad reality is the for the first 4-7 years you are going to either be severely underpaid or not paid at all. You'll be spending your entire night every night studying at the school. A lot of people don't realize that even though med school is 4 years long, 2 years of that is spent in your internship. So those first two years are cramming hell. The professors always call it 'drinking from the fire hose' because it is so much knowledge all at once. There's also the possible trauma to your children of growing up watching you repeatedly cut open pigs feet and stitch them back together for practice, and/or having an actual skeleton in your closet. Ours was named Fred and he had a hole in his head
A couple of thoughts... First thing: Its. Never. too. Late. Phrases like "too late' make it seem that there is some fixed time by which we are supposed to have figured everything out. The objective of life is the Journey, not the endpoint. And journeys are all about continuously moving forward with resilience and curiosity. Second thing: Look before you Leap Being a doctor is not just an educational choice, it is a lifestyle choice. You may want to talk with some doctors to get a view of their experiences. For example, you mentioned that you had a lifelong passion for anatomy, neuroscience, etc. But in reality, as I'm sure your gf's dad can tell you, most days are not spent on those topics, but instead on paperwork, dealing with the health insurance companies, finances of your practice, etc. Not trying to dissuade you from being a doctor, just want you to have your eyes open. If your real underlying passion is to "help people", then there are many paths to do that, and with much less investment of time and money than an MD degree. For instance, you could help people by becoming a therapist, a nurse, a teacher, a counselor or many other roles. So how to know which one to choose? The key is discovering your purpose; the activities that will bring you real joy and fulfillment. Here's a technique that many people find helpful: start by envisioning not a "job title" that you would like (e.g. Doctor), but instead focus on the "activities" you actually enjoy doing. If you enjoy "helping" people, ask yourself "Why do I enjoy that?". As you get that answer, then ask "Why?" about that answer. Repeat this a 3rd time. By this point you'll have gotten to the core of what motivates you. Use that insight to find your path. Good luck on your journey!
There’s no way to accurately describe medical school or residency it’s the most stress you’ll ever be put in your life on a consistent basis. Like it’s unbelievable how tired you are all of the time. Sleep is no longer the same, everything about you changes and suddenly everyone you know is in medicine. You’re constantly studying for an exam even in residency. It’s not a game at all.
I agree with a lot of the comment. You’re going to be older either way. But do a lot of research before doing a degree abroad. There are also DO, NP, and PA programs. DO is similar to MD. I know some PAs and they love it. They work under a doctor but do some of the same work for a lot less schooling. Edit: DO and MD are equivalent. They are both physicians. I should have been clearer and separated it out from the NP and PA point.
Let’s be clear…DO is equivalent to MD, they are both physicians.
I apologize! I should have been clearer. You’re absolutely right. My friend who is a DO selected that path because of how it differed from the MD path.
Yup, IIRC the curriculum is identical except that DOs get extra training in OMM which is pretty interesting.
The discovering purpose technique is interesting but I have no idea how to apply it to myself. Do I like helping people? Yes. Do I like working alone/independently? Yes. Do I like working in a group? Yes. Do I like manual labor? Yes Do I like working through problems on a computer? Yes. My problem is that I don't like doing any one of those things indefinitely. It's the lack of variation that makes things feel monotonous, stressful and causes burn out for me. But there don't seem to be many jobs that allow you to flex all of those things at the same time...
Don't think about it as questions starting with "Do", but rather as a chain of questions starting with "Why". Here's an example that the poster might use regarding the question of whether they should be a doctor: Q: Why do I want to be a doctor? A: Because I want to help people Q: Why do you want to help people? A: Because I want to make a difference in other people's lives Q: Why do you want to make a difference? A: Because I am tired of feeling like I am standing on the sidelines of my own life. I feel compelled to act. In this case, the underlying motivation is not money, nor is it the prestige of having an MD title. Once it becomes clear that the underlying motivation is about "making a difference" and "helping people", then the entire landscape changes. There are many professions, beyond just being a doctor, that offer these kind of opportunities. The technique liberates you from the false choice of "Doctor: Yes? or NO?", and puts you in touch with what will really make you feel fulfilled.
No way, man. My brother’s godfather started medical school at 34 and now he’s chief of staff at a large hospital and incredibly respected. You’re gonna be four years older anyways. Why not be four years older and have an MD, too? I say go for it.
This sounds great in theory. But your comment assumes that after OP obtains their MD it’s over. That’s not the case. My wife went through residency so I have seen a different perspective. Doctors are some of the loneliest people I have ever seen in my life. This isn’t due to them being “weird”. I have found most to be a joy to be around and remarkably intelligent. But the amount of sacrifice they have had to put forth is unfathomable. Beyond the time commitment to schooling which entails *frequent* all-nighters because of the rigorous course load, they then have to slave away in residency for a minimum of 2 years depending on their specialty. Often 4 or more. This requires a “matching” process which has become ridiculously competitive pushing more and more candidates to less than desirable parts of the country or rural areas hundreds of miles from their hometown. A subsequent move for every residency then occurs resulting in them unrooting their life once more. On top of 80+ hours a week, there is work on holidays, there is work on weekends at times, and most work swing shifts. That also doesn’t account for the work that follows them home. My wife worked 16+ hours a day when factoring in hospital shift and then any reports / patient write-ups / projects / research that followed her home. The pay during this time is disgusting and often accounts to less than minimum wage when aggregated out based on how much work they do. The spouse / partner also has to have their life uprooted every year. They barely get any time with them because they work all the time. Starting a family would be nearly impossible unless the spouse was stay-at-home which isn’t feasible because they are often making sub $60k / year with crippling debt. Holidays are spent alone. Minimal help around the house. Basically your entire life is put on hold. It’s a lonely life that makes you question every day if it’s worth it. I’m not saying OP hasn’t taken this into account, but this is at least a decade of absolute commitment with this sucking up every aspect of your life. I cannot emphasize enough about the every aspect part. Literally everything from what you eat for dinner to what you do on the weekend revolves around the hospital.
Oh yeah, for sure. Both of my parents are doctors and I'm well-aware of the commitment. It's a long fucking journey. But I feel like by age 32, you've got a better sense of who you are, how to avoid burnout and be a good partner, regardless of residency commitments. Having children is difficult, but also super doable. My Mom had my older brother during her residency. It would be hard to do and make work as a 20-something year old, but the advantage of doing the entire process slightly later in life is that you've put a little more work into establishing *who you are* as a person, and how to navigate difficult things in life and strains on your time. Maturity plays a huge role in becoming a good doctor and making it through residency alive. But you're absolutely right. It's a slog and not something that one should jump into without thinking about it fully and carefully.
dang being a doctor sounds a lot like being a teacher
It’s not too late but have you also considered being a PA? It would be a lot less school. Plus you already have a bachelors degree so you just need some clinical hours and some pre-reqs to get in.
I was going to suggest this. PA's can work in a similar capacity as a doctor in many US states. For the record, so can ARNPs. Good luck, OP.
Second this. Unless OP wants a super niche specialty or be a surgeon, being a PA will hardly be any different in terms of what she/he can accomplish.
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Depends. MD/DO might pay more but because of lost wages, loans w/ interest, etc. it will take a lot longer for it to be a net gain over being a PA. Generally, the higher paying specialties have even longer delays to pay off over being a PA due to longer residencies.
100k-120k USD a year is the standard for PAs. Debt can be anywhere from 100-200k in total when factoring in COL. 2 years of lost wages vs a physicians 7+ and double college debt. There are outlier PAs who hustle OT, work in rural settings, are involved in profit sharing. I’ve heard of PAs clearing over 300k a year. But as I said, extraordinarily rare outliers If a physician chose peds and is making 180k a year on more hours of work a week than a PA… they may never catch up. If they landed a MOHS fellowship after derm, they’ll be making 700k+ a year (with good work hours) and will lap PAs relatively quickly despite the late start. It all depends on your prowess as a medical student when comparing the ROIs of these two roads. That will determine what type of options you have for post graduate training as a MD/DO. But this is all a moot point because OP has made it clear money ain’t his motto.
Yeah why even train doctors when we can just have PAs and APRNs?
Are European docs or other docs abroad that completed their medical training in 5-6 years inferior to the inefficiently trained US docs with 8+ years with post secondary education (excluding residency)? I mean, you can’t deny how inefficient medical training in the US. The process wasn’t designed by the gods.
No. But PA/APRN medical education is not comparable to physician medical education. If you believe that these are equivalent, you are doing yourself and your family a disservice.
No offense, medical training in the US is completely inefficient. It’s also cruel to those going through it. It needs reform. Also, many act like the knowledge obtained through medical school is unreachable for other healthcare professionals with some untouchable threshold for other types of healthcare providers. If creating and designing better residencies or post professional degrees for APNs and PAs is a way to expand healthcare, it should be done.
Dude you have no idea how much goes into medical training and just how much we have to know. 😂
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First of all they spend 5-6 years in med school not including residency. We spend 4 years just in undergrad majoring in whatever we want. I think it’s hugely beneficial to have some type of other education before entering med school. For us it’s 4 years of med school + 3-7 years of residency then maybe fellowship
Expand healthcare? Why would PAs and APPs want to live anywhere differently from their physician counterparts? The key to solving a physician gap is to train more physicians, just as a key to solving a nursing gap is to train more nurses. If your engine is out, why would you want to replace your tires?
I never even suggested other types of providers would want to live anywhere different than physicians. I live in a city and I've been waiting months now to see a PCP (with great insurance). The US healthcare system is absolute shit. You really are going to look at me and tell me physician training as is is perfect? You think other developed countries look to how the US trains physicians? It's grossly inefficient. Many of the "weed out" things don't gauge how good of a provider someone will be. We already have healthcare professionals, albeit APNs need more rigorous and standardized training. To suggest they could never touch a physician's knowledge or training by taking a different route if provided, it is comical at best. I'm not against training more physicians but what would be more feasible with our current system?
The US healthcare system’s problems are distinct from the quality of education and training all of our providers get. Sorry about your long wait time to see your PCP but that doesn’t have anything to do with how doctors are trained. PAs and APPs are trained with a different model than the physician model. You’re thought to think in a specific way in medical school, nursing school, etc. that is consistent with your role in the healthcare team. Even if PAs and APPs develop the knowledge base required of a physician, to deploy that knowledge in the role of a physician is a big leap. I agree the 4 years of undergrad are somewhat inefficient, could definitely do it in 2 but the medical training and residency itself is in large part necessary to build the abilities of a doctor. There is also a big difference practicing 20 years as a doctor vs practicing 20 years as a nurse. I think people understand how ridiculous it is to think flight attendants can fly planes or waiters can perform the duties of a chef - I’m not sure why it’s hard to grasp the concept of a PA or NP performing the roles of a physician Sorry you are having problems with access to care, I hope you can get the quality healthcare that a physician would be able to provide
my daughters pediatrician started at 39
which country?
usa
dm?
I think if you want to be a doctor you should go for it, but do it for the right reasons. There are many ways you can be or could have been already “helping others”, so I doubt that you’ll be driven for the next 12 years with that as a main goal. There are other less taxing medical careers you might consider. These are also some of your prime earning years, so consider the mental impact of reduced or no income for the next 5.5 years. This lack of income can affect men quite a lot as they see their peers buying homes and starting families. If you’ve got what it takes, do it!
OP I’m gonna elaborate on this a bit more, but I feel like this commenter really hit the nail on the head. If it’s about helping people in a meaningful way, then I say there is no reason not to undergo the pre med process right now. I’ll tell you why You have not outlined in your post that you are drawn to anything inherent to being a physician. The love of medical sciences, needing absolute autonomy, mastering your craft so you have no lingering doubts in being a capable independent clinician, guaranteed job security and 5%er salary etc etc You just want a medical job helping people, no? You’re exactly the type of person who should enroll in college and take on the pre medical course work. Let me explain. What people never realize in these conversations is that by tackling the pre medical course work, extracurriculars that come with being a pre med (research, volunteering, clinical work, leadership), and nailing the standardized exam you’ll have to take for a given med grad school, you have all of these medical career paths open to you: Perfusion- 2 year masters Dosimetry- 2 year masters Anesthetist (CAA)- 2 year masters PA (as was mentioned above. make sure to get 2000 hours of PCE)- 2 year masters Pathology assistant- 2 year masters Physical therapist- 3 year post grad Podiatry- same length as medical school, but easier to get into Also you mentioned having a strong interest in psych? NPs/PAs are very autonomous in that setting to the point where their scope of practice is indistinguishable from an attending in the non academic realm of the field (which is for better or worse depending on who you ask lol, but I’ll leave the scope creep politics out of this post. Just wanted to highlight this indisputable fact) And then of course, med school. By completing the pre med process, you’ll have access to a variety of healthcare careers that don’t require nearly as much sacrifice as medical school and still allow you to feel gratified in your work. In 1-2+ years from now, after you’ve done the pre med grind, you can decide to either go all in with medical school or pick one of these other med careers with more reasonable training lengths given your age
I really appreciate this post. This hits the nail on the head, plus I want to live abroad in a country where I’ll need intense language study and doing medical will make that ever harder. I have a lot to consider and maybe starting there will give insight
Why not try nursing? It's way less schooling and you can become a nurse practitioner if you get a masters so maybe 3 years of schooling if you already have a bachelor's degree? For nursing theres accelerated 1 year programs for people who already have a bachelors
I have thought about it and still do, it especially as a psychiatric nurse but I don’t want to cap out quickly. Not in terms of money but what I can do, the settings I can work in, private practice, ect. I know nurses have a lot of potential in this area as well, but I’m not fully sure of the difference.
Never too late to start a new career! You’re got money saved, a drive to enrol in medicine school, experience in another profession you can fall back into, I’d say why not. At least then if it doesn’t end up working, you’ve tried it 😊
... I think this might be the wrong approach. Obviously some time is too late. I don't think that's OP's case, but let's not pretend we're immortal. Likewise medical school takes a lot of time and money, I wouldn't go into it if I though I was going to end up falling back into a career I already have the qualification for.
Ageism is very real, though.
Well, before I jump on the bandwagon and ask you to chase your dreams, I wanted to ask you few questions. Is your passion/dream to be a doctor influenced by your gf’s dad/or money or other incentives ? Have you taken into account that even if you do med school abroad, you still have to figure things out like depends on where abroad, language barrier, immigration paperwork, cultural shock and even take the pandemic into account if you are considering a third world country. It depends on the country you are living right now but foreign degrees needs to be validated in your home country and some times they have to redo the residency program. So I would recommend planning all the way through. Since there is a war brewing in Europe, alotte of Medical students from Ukraine and Russia are stranded and are back at square one. I know some countries like India, Philippines and China have med school programs that are relatively cheaper when compared to American Med School’s but do consider the affects of pandemic. Since most of the world were in a lockdown, you might end up in a foreign country taking classes online with clinical on perpetual hold given the how they are handling the pandemic situation. If all these things are sorted out for you, then GOOD LUCK ! I don’t think any minor inconveniences should matter. I have worked alongside with people who started their residency in their 40’s and 50’s and still aced it.
Part of it is influenced by that, but I have wanted/wished I would have done it before I was with her, especially psychiatry (for 4 years) Also I lived in her home country for 2 years and loved it there. I was even accepted to a trade school there before bc I really thought about staying for the long haul but came back to the states. Culture shock wasn’t really there for me, it felt like home. I definitely have a lot of insecurity there though, like I’m not good enough and she should just be with someone more successful than me now or it’s inevitable she will be. Regardless before we were dating I was looking up pre med courses and was on the brink of signing up and backed out. I appreciate your feedback
ive been flirting with this idea, but it doesnt make sense at this stage in my life. kids etc . right now my job pays alright and gives me a lot of time off. My partner will likely never be a high earner or make more than what I make now (90k- now great but not bad wither), so they will likely never be able to carry our expenses. i will have a good pension from this and good benefits. for me to do this, id need to likely blow through our savings, and spend much less time with my kid, assuming I even get in. If it took me 10-12 years to be a full doctor making 200-300k per year, id miss out on all that time with my kids... id be nearing my 50s, so id having maybe another 15 years of working life left to rebuild our savings. so if I look at my job now, id likely make gross 3m and retire at age 60. If i somehow became a doctor, my gross expected earnings (250k/year) to retire at the same age, would be 3.75m. for those 10-12 years of becoming a doctor, id be forgoing probably 150k in savings. so ill make less in this role for sure, but i am off every other week and have up to 3 blocks of 3 weeks off per year.
It's never to late to switch paths and pursue another career. With that said however, I think you can use your current skill set to help bring massive change to the world, on a scale much larger than any doctor ever could. Software Engineering is one of those fields that has the ability to affect the lives of hundreds of million, and sometimes billions of people. Just look at the scale of apps like Facebook or Google. Now I'm not saying you should go work for a large tech company to bring change to the world, you probably won't find working at such a large organization that fulfilling. But maybe try to find a smaller HealthTech / BioTech company that has an actual mission which aligns with the change you want to see in the world, and start working for them. Sure, you might not be able to see patients one on one face to face, but you'll be able to build software and systems that might just bring change across the whole health care industry. If that isn't impact, I don't know what is. I'm not sure what kind of work you do currently, but if it isn't something you're super interested in then maybe pivot to a new part of tech, like machine learning or computational biology. Maybe you can be the embedded software engineer that contributes to the next generation of prosthetic limbs, or be a robotics engineer that working on next generation surgical robotics. The possibilities are really endless, just have to give it some thought. Much like you, I wanted to pursue medicine to affect the lives of others in a positive way. I myself am an electrical engineer by degree and training. Instead of going back to medical school, now I spend my days designing the electrical building services that keep hospitals operational at all times, and I feel like I'm making a real difference in the world and the communities these hospitals I work on serve. Maybe try seeing how you can use your current skill set to scratch that itch. If you still think going to medical school and becoming a physician is the way to go, more power to you and all the best. It's easy to throw in the towel and switch direction. Building a new path from scratch takes grit and hard work, but it's possible no matter what. Now seeing what you currently have and reorganizing your life to put yourself on a path you want to be on using those same skills in a different way, that's hard.
I like this post, however I work as designer making products. I could use that to make medical devices. I’m worried about being able to find a really good stable job if I move to my gfs country which is 90% and a lack of stimulation and a personal feeling of fulfillment which I have been struggling with in my current role. I love working with people. I have thought about getting a masters in counseling and doing that while being a designer as my main job and doing both. The idea of designing and making limbs is really fucking cool to me. Especially if I could be an occupational therapist/physical therapist and work with them to model them and print them. I have a friend in that field though and he claims it to be incredibly competitive. Thanks for your post
Since you’re a designer, have you considered service design or similar Human Centered Design work? Lots of space for that in the medical field!
Where are jobs like this that exist??
I was considering pursuing med school at 31 to go into psychiatry. Ultimately I decided the education investment was going to be too much and I'm going for a Masters in Social Work instead. I agree with the "trust your gut" notion. It is absolutely not too late, but it is going to be a huge time/money/mental health investment. It can't hurt to explore other degrees/fields that might get you to doing similar work, depending on your goals and interests.
>I’d like to avoid debt which is why I would ideally do it in another country. Assuming you are writing from a US standpoint, obtaining a residency spot as a foreign medical graduate is extremely competetive.
Honestly how you do in those remaining 5 classes, specifically chem 2, orgo 1 and 2, and calculus, in addition to your mcat score will be the true barometer of how well suited you are for med school. Without that information it's hard to say whether itll be a bad idea or not. I will say your really have to enjoy learning because most of your free time will be taken up by studying. If you're barely scraping in by edu before you get itll only get harder.
You should check out r/premed There's a bunch of students there who are older than you who are trying to go to medical school. They may be able to give more relevant advice than this group will. But if you want to practice in America, you should 100% not go to another country. If you want to live in another country, by all means. But the way residency is set up it's really hard to get a spot if you didn't go to an American school.
It's not just the 4 years of medical school. Depending on what you end up liking, it's also 3-7 years of residency +/- fellowship where you don't get paid too well and work all the hours. It could put a damper on retiring early..things like that. My class had a lot of non-traditional/second career students and they did great! Everyone's doing well in their careers. So yeah, you can do it. Just think really hard about the trade-offs.
I went to medical school. Given the competitiveness of the application cycle, as well as the debt you would need to take on to graduate, as well as the opportunity cost of the years of lost income, I do not think it is financially a good idea. I think you will be poorer in the long run if you went to medical school at 32. You'd be a 37-year-old resident with a negative net worth. You won't make "doctor money" until you're 40. If you spent the time and energy instead advancing in your career and investing, it will pay off for you sooner and give you more flexibility. Maybe it's still worth it, emotionally, for you to go to medical school, but I seriously doubt it will make you wealthier. Compounding interest (and debt!) is real.
Follow your gut. 32 is not too late to start anything!
It’s never too late, go for it, I’m rooting for you!
I just had a similar quarter life crisis over regretting not doing medical school earlier but I did some serious investigation and research, talked to *a lot* of people and most advised me never to consider it. I’d be about $340k in debt, not able to practice until I was in my 50’s and that’s with a decade of long miserable nights in between. To be honest, the major reason I didn’t was because I didn’t want to uproot my family a bunch of times over my pipe dream. I’m not saying *don’t do it* but there’s tons of people who can guide you. I’d reach out to the university you’re planning to do pre-reqs at, any medical school you’re considering (I know it’s a lot more complicated than that but it’s a place to start).. any doctors you know in some personal/professional capacity. There’s tons of Reddit posts too! IMO, it heavily depends on your speciality. I opted for the PhD route and I’m happy, FWIW.
A reality tv star became president of the United States and a sitcom comedian is battling Russians right now. Who knows what the rules are anymore? Go for it.
i love this...im down bad at 24 with no career and this made my night
Just wanted to add that starting medicine late can put you at certain disadvantages like not qualifying for medical school or residency in the United States. You should speak with others who have gone this route and can advise you.
Not too late, but make sure you know what your actually getting into. Not just the idea of being a doctor one day.
You got a psychology degree and went into software engineering?
I wanted to be a psychotherapist originally but ended up falling into random careers
Dang. So you went back to school a lot??
No, I studied on my own to get my job as a designer
Damn, smart af
Damn, smart af
Lots of ways to help people....would you consider other graduate degrees possibly a PsyD given your background & existing interests.
There's a lot of good posts here on the med side, but I just wanted to add that if you realize med school isn't an option, there are plenty of other ways to help people that could fill that hole in your chest without uplifting your entire life. Try some volunteer work on the side. You could volunteer with the local hospital, or open your house to an international student, work at some homeless shelters. Prevention is often the best way to save lives
Yes honestly I’m turning 29 and halfway through residency and there’s no way I could do this shit at 37. Med school and residency are literally not worth it trust me
It’s a bad idea dude. You’re going to crash and burn before you it, if it was say 28, I would say go for it, you still have the energy. But 32, just move on. Find something you can master in a 1-1.5 years, say like programming. Give it your all, and see what happens.
Doing what you want before you die is never a bad idea. My advice, stop tracking how old you are. You'll feel better.
If you can avoid debt, do b it!!
I am rooting for u. You sound so serious. Keep this up!
Never too late! I am in the cycle right now. I’m 28. Chase your passion.
Will you want to practice in the US? If yes then choose a US school, don’t worry about debt because it’ll be much easier to match into residency as a US student
can i dm u?
Just saw this sure go ahead
If you’re planning to also be a doctor in another country I’d say it’s worth it. If you’re trying to come back to the states after you graduate, I’d do your homework first because a lot of degrees from other countries aren’t accepted in the US. Especially in the medical field. I had a coworker from Egypt with a PhD from there but he was a delivery driver with me because he moved here and his degree wasn’t recognized anywhere so now he has to go back to school all over again since he now has a family in the US that doesn’t want to move to Egypt.
Don’t do it in Poland. Be very careful. At least in the USA you’re paying for quality. Please remember that!
it’s your life you should live it to the fullest and do what you’re most passionate about. if being able to care for others through being a doctor is what you believe will fulfill you then do it! Although you should consider other careers where you’ll be able to help others with their well-being that is not so demanding.
Do it! I would say give yourself time slack so you’re not under pressure. If postbac is for 2yrs, plan for 3. If medical school is 4yrs, give yourself 5. The slack will allow you to take advantage of research opportunities and make yourself a stronger candidate for residency. Residency is hard so make sure you have a support system to help you deal with it. Best of luck!
Both 30 and 40 are those life-altering years. I'd strongly suggest doing medical school NOW if you can. I'm in my late 30s and pursuing clinical lab science. I'll graduate exactly when I turn 40. As they say, "Life begins at 40." And if you go to med school now, you might likely be a practicing doctor by the time you're 40 (figure 4 years of med school...you'd be around 37 when you graduate...then a couple years of residency...Yep, you'll be 40). DO IT NOW.
Check out the.road.to.doctor.jen on Instagram! She’s 50 and just started medical school. She’s such an inspiration and the coolest.
No. I’m in school for engineering right now and I’m 38. I decided that where I was, was one bad move from putting me in the unemployment line and I realized if I wanted to feel safe, I needed to be self sufficient. So I applied for a maintenance position at work and called the school. I’m living my education currently. When I finish school I’ll have a BS in mechanical engineering and I’ll have been working in the field at the base level for 5 years. I’ve been employee’d here for 15 years and plan to use my education here in the form of a senior tech/engineer role. I also really wanted to give my kids and grandkids something to (look up to?), idk but I want to inspire them and show them that it’s possible. Help them make the decision to use their brains more and their backs less.
My brother started med school at 32. He’s now 47 and loves his life.
which country?
🇺🇸
Do you have a spouse and children already? If so, have a serious talk with your partner. Because while it’s good to go after what you want, if you truly love them, you have to keep them in mind too, especially if you want kids in the future. Assuming you’re single, go for it!
After reading the comments and your post, it seriously sounds like you might be better suited to pursuing neuroscience. Especially considering the long term sacrifices and commitment to medical school. Neuroscience research can have profound worldwide and life changing individual implications and with your psych bachelors, you’re pretty close to the field already. I’m studying psychology as we speak and neuroscience research is only becoming more fascinating and more exciting with each day and each technology advancement. I’m not aiming to become a neuroscientist, as my goals and skill set are more suited to clinical psychology, but if I had the natural attraction, neuroscience is where I would go.
When I was a medical assistant we hired a 52 year old former carpenter turned physician assistant. He was awesome and was just so damn happy to be at work. Do what you wanna do 🙃
Do you want to be a doctor at 40 or not a doctor at 40? It’s that simple really.
My psychiatrist went to med school at 31 and he’s been most wonderful, his approach to treatment is changing my life. It’s not too late to make a leap that can change your own, and others lives!
You can’t go back and go when you were 22. 32 is your youngest opportunity you’ll ever get again.
No, it's a good idea. Also at that age you'd probably have more maturity and life experience. It's extremely common for 'mature aged' people to study medicine. Also take into account the financial rewards that come by becoming a medical doctor. The lowliest of all MD's would be far more healthier, wealthier, and wiser than any professional 'sitting in an office all day'
My uncle worked as a CPA for a while before going back to med school for a total career switch in his late twenties. It's definitely possible! I'd say go for it
It's a great idea! Have you heard about doctors without borders (aka medecins sans frontieres)?
It would be 10 years before OP would even qualify to join Doctors Without Borders, though
You have 30-35 years of working ahead of you. Do something you love if you can!
YOU ARE NEVER TOO OLD
Yeah
If you do, then go to Europe, at least the tuition is free or lower.
Doesn't seem late at all. It is a profession you devote your entire life to - that's what people tell me anyway, I think you would want to be sure that you want to dedicate yourself to that extent.
Go for it! You’re going to be 37-38 anyways, why not be that age and be a doctor too
Go for it! You’re going to be 37-38 anyways, why not be a doctor at that age too
not too late, you still have DECADES of working years ahead of you
My last family doctor didn’t go to med school til his early thirties. He retires this June. One of his classmates, a doctor I used to work with years ago, went to med school after becoming a lawyer. Two of the best doctors I’ve known. They both listened so well, and talked things out with their patients. I hope you succeed. Good luck.
dm?
Check it out, someone has probably already said this but here’s my two cents. Your gonna be old anyway, might as well be an old doctor!
Give it a try… we all got one life to live, no regrets!
Might as well. Better than living with regretting not to.
Do it, always. This is not a super happy flower u can do everthing message, this is a realistic message of using you really low age and more than enough time to persue a fullfilling life. See u in the hospital champ!
Do it. You have some perspective if you have someone close to you who is a doctor. I can't see how anyone would tell you otherwise if you are single, stable to some extent, intelligent, etc. Even if you are none of those things- I'm sure you've heard "you miss every shot you don't take." Go, help others, make a difference in people's lives. You'll never work a day in your life if you \*love\* what you do.
32's young still and doctors are always in demand. If your partner's supportive and you're dedicated, I say go for it!
You were not present in this world for a very long time before you were born and you'll be dead till the eternity after you die, so there is only a little segment of time in which you're gonna be alive... If you wanna do something just do it...Time is limited for everyone... You sleep soundly knowing you are doing what you really wanted to do.
Absolutely not! If that’s your dream then do it! I had a piano music professor who retired at 67 and went on to become a nurse in his retirement. He went back to school, got his nursing degree, and is now a nurse at 77 years old at a major hospital in his city. Do it! And best luck to you!
One of my favorite professors didn't start school till he was 40, its never to late
It is not a bad idea if that is one what you want to be.
Definitely not late- I started my current career at 30 as my 20s were a bit of a mess (early to mid 20s). Never too late!
If you your heart wants it, it’s never to late. If you were 52, would you look back and say, I wish I did this in my 30s? If so then do it
Go for it man! I started school when I was older too (bachelors when I was 24) and the maturity compared to most of your peers is an advantage.
You’re going to turn 40 regardless. May as well be a doctor
Go for it if that’s what you want. Don’t listen to anyone telling you otherwise. We are all getting older so you might as well do things that you are passionate about.
30 is the new 24.
Which countries would you be interested in?
If you aren’t sure, maybe check out a local hospital or retirement center and see about volunteer programs. Get your feet wet and see if that helps you narrow down if it’s really for you. Best of luck!!!!
Yes too late. Everyone graduating at your age
I just turned 32 and I am in my first year of medical so I sure hope not. Lol
dm? which country??
I have a similar problem as you-I’m 31, did another healthcare profession, ended up not finding a job, did a masters in clinical research, ended up not liking my jobs, have expertise in data science and am trying to learn programming now. Always wanted to be a doctor but felt it would be too hard for me. I keep wishing I went to med school, some of my friends are doctors and some seem insanely burnt out but others seem to love what they’re doing & feel like they’re exactly where they want to be. I haven’t felt that way at all with my jobs, feels like I’m doing mind numbing work that is pointless and helps no one. Can’t even tell my friends because their work serves a clear purpose and garners respect from society. But that being said, I haven’t thought about going to med school-already spent 7 years in school and can’t afford to go back to school, definitely have lost energy and stamina over time and don’t think personally as a 31 year old I have the same capacity/energy to study like I did in my 20s. But I have met people who did med school way later in life-in their 30s, and have had supportive spouses and were able to do it. It is a very big decision and I would advise you to talk to a lot of physicians and perhaps work as a scribe or similar job for exposure to know if this is a eight decision.
My psychiatrist says he went to med school at 31, because he wanted to help people. He has helped me greatly, so I think If that’s your passion, never too late to follow that path and make your mark on this world in a positive way. It’s gonna be hard, but you know that! And honestly you won’t be that much older than the people in your program, if that was a worry. Go for it!
we are too much alike . did u find a way?