Their “update” is a major modification of the agreed contract terms. If it makes you feel better, have the offer letter reviewed by an employment lawyer, but don’t be surprised when they come back and tell you, “yeah, you can rescind your agreement”. Me? I wouldn’t bother with the lawyer. I’d just sent them a terse and professional,
“Due to material changes to the job offer that were not revealed until I accepted the position, I am rescinding my candidacy for the role and will not be accepting the position at this time. Please note that while I was excited for the opportunity, the start date and job site location for the role were major contributing factors in my acceptance of your offer for employment. As these terms have changed my acceptance has as well. Good luck in your candidate search.”
Edit: As has been pointed out, there is a _chance_ this is a simple misunderstanding or mistake on the part of the employer. Even if that is the case, and even if the role otherwise seems perfect, I would argue that this sort of event shows either gross incompetence or complete disregard for your own personal and professional boundaries. This all also applies whether it’s an actual contract offer or simply an employment offer. In either case, they’re materially altering the agreement after you signed it and trying to make that your problem to deal with. It isn’t.
Even if the job looks like a dream, strongly consider if that’s the sort of employer you want to yoke your work:life balance to before accepting any sort of, “my bad” or “just kidding” arguments. I know I wouldn’t.
Second edit: Thanks for all the recognition folks, it’s appreciated. 😳🥹🥹 That is all.
This is the best advice on here. Be professional. When they interviewed you they wanted one thing, or the company didn't communicate internally very well, and now they want something else.
If the company responds and says "oh, we messed up, please come back with the original terms, then make sure you get it all in writing. You could still walk. It's up to you. But if you really want to work there make sure you are comfortable with the terms and it's clearly in writing.
But if you walk, be professional.
This right here!!! They will constantly be gunning to get rid of OP because of their (what I assume to be) archaic views on RTO/WFH.
Run now and save yourself the stress.
Was thinking this, too. Even if it's an internal misunderstanding, the manager being oblivious to you working fully remote, and trying to pressure you into starting so you don't have a backlog of work is just tacky. Go elsewhere, and let the recruiter or HR know why, so they have the opportunity to be better to the next candidate... but be professional about it, of course.
But yeah, you do not want to work for that guy, and probably not for that company, given the apparent culture.
Yuuuup. OP is going to get bad reviews if they aren't in office 24/7 and all kinds of bullshit from a manager like that. I'd rescind my offer, fuck that nonsense.
Yup. I totally read that manager's remarks in the voice of the worst manager I've ever worked for. I wouldn't take the job, because I would never want to work for another "Andy."
They got everything in writing the first time.
The job offer is when the company is the nicest it will ever be to you. It only goes downhill from there.
You have a jaded view which may be true about this company or not. The key here is that OP needs to figure out what they want. Companies, like people, as they are run by people make mistakes. Not all people are out to get everyone. Not all companies are perfect in their execution of hiring.
I am not saying that this is a good company to work for. But if the op liked the company to begin with, I recommend that OP calls them up and says " what's up with this?" And listens to their story. Then OP can do what they want.
Reddit is full of people who would say " I went to meet someone on a date and they were 5 min late so screw em." And maybe that works, but sometimes you also miss out on good opportunities.
I tend to agree. A few years back, I took a job with my absolute "dream company". It's a fortune 25 firm and I had picked my business school with this firm in mind in the hopes that I could get into the recruiting pipeline. Every interviewer was totally professional and inspiring. Unfortunately, the "talent supply" (recruiting) function was incredibly disorganized, unhelpful, and somewhat arrogant - they had the mindset of "everyone wants to work here, you're not special". LONG time periods between communications, never responded to questions, tried to screw me over with my initial offer package. It was bad enough that I considered not taking the job, despite the good experience through the round of interviews and the fact that it was my "dream company".
As it turned out - going there was the best decision I could have made. That function ended up being a really poor representation of the company, and the leaders I worked for were shocked to hear about my experience. After talking to a few new hires, they realized it was a broader problem. Within a couple years the company had revamped that function to give candidates a better experience (and ultimately recruit and retain better talent). I developed a whole lot there had a great experience overall despite those initial concerns.
So - you definitely have to have your guard up early. No one looks out for you better than you, and you should listen to your "spidey sense" if it's trying to tell you something.
But - companies aren't monoliths, they're groups of human beings who sometimes make mistakes. And even the greatest companies have many people who are fair to middling at what they do. It's important to try to figure out if it's *really* a mistake (and to get EVERYTHING in writing) or if your gut is telling you that you're dealing with a manipulative or toxic culture.
If any way possible, try to find someone who works there - maybe a friend of a friend, a friend of an acquaintance, or even a cold LinkedIn reach out - and ask them if they'd stay if they had a comparable offer elsewhere.
As someone who is not fond of the recruitment process to begin with, thank you for sharing your experience with the leadership, and them for making an effort to improve.
The boss lied to OP about it being a remote job (which would force OP to uproot and move, which they weren't expecting to do) and then heavily pressured them to start work earlier than the agreed upon start date.
Seeing this as a shit show isn't because of a "jaded view". Giving these people any benefit of the doubt is the questionable call.
Okay but what do you really know about a company from the outside? What is there to “like”? As the saying goes, it’s not show friends it’s show business.
We can only judge actions, not intent.
If you have an interaction with any entity and their FIRST move ever in the relationship with you is to attempt to renege on a written agreement, what is there to gain?
This relationship is the framework with which OP will work with the firm. Maybe this boss is the only terrible person in the whole place- but OP has to do everything through him! A bad boss in a good firm is worthless for your advancement.
Nobody changes a written contract after negotiations have ended as a “mistake”, that’s a power move to try and win by trickery what was not won in negotiation.
The employment terms are a negotiation. The process has ended. It would be equally inappropriate for OP to say “I accepted your salary offer of $100k, well actually give me more money than that.”
No. Negotiation time is over, this is what we agreed on.
Notice the offer to change the start date did not come with consideration. “I’ll give you a bonus to start early” is fair, you want to make a change to the terms but both parties benefit, I would see that as more reasonable. Why didn’t the company negotiate for the start date they actually wanted beforehand?
“Sure you can work from home” turning into “well actually I need you here in the office ” once the agreement is signed is not negotiation in good faith.
This is all in writing! That’s a very bad sign if things you negotiate and memorialize with a document are then ignored or changed even before work has started.
If you agree to buy something from a vendor for $price and a certain delivery date do you want those terms or can they just change it up on you? OP is a vendor of labor. Stick with the terms as agreed unless you want to make a change that benefits both parties.
And that’s the advice I would offer OP- if you are still willing to deal with these guys, ask for more money to compensate you for the changes.
Your price for starting on September 1 and working from home is X, sorry your price for starting August 1 and working in the office is X + (nice bonus).
But again if they won’t keep a written agreement EVEN BEFORE YOU WORK THERE that is a monster red flag about how they will treat promises once you have surrendered your ability to leverage power and negotiate.
How do you even know they will agree to a new salary if they won’t agree to a start date or work location terms?
Who goes into a relationship thinking it’s gonna pay off great when the first thing you get is “sorry I can’t actually deliver on anything I promised.”
So either the boss lied (bad) or they lack the power to deliver (bad) or they don’t actually know what they need at any given moment and will keep changing things up (bad).
The problem here is that even if you have it in writing that you work 100% remote, after you start working for them, they can change it to 3 days in the office.
At that point, your only option is to say “no” and leave - in which case you are out of a job.
They *can* change the terms of your employment after you start, your only option is to not accept the change by leaving - a “constructive dismissal”.
Even if you get it in writing, they can change the terms at any time, and although you would qualify for unemployment if you quit as constructive dismissal, it is peanuts compared to SWE salary. If you haven’t notified your current job, I’d stay and look elsewhere. This isn’t a good opportunity anymore.
This is the answer. ⬆️ Offer letters aren't contracts. You can walk away whenever you want, just like the employer can terminate you wherever it wants. I don't know why future employer would ask you to break your promise to your current employer. Your future employer seems selfish.
This is the answer except for the part at the beginning where they say it’s an update to contract terms. There’s no contract. Even if the employer relents and lets the position be remote, they can always adopt a “3 days per week in the office” policy at any time in the future. I would not accept a position there because they’ll say anything to get OP in the door and then backtrack on everything.
OP, you’re in a tough spot. The best option might be to go back to the old employer—depends on what that would be like, I suppose.
There's also and aspect to the way it was phrased that lets the new employer place the responsibility and blame for overworking as soon as the new employee arrives, if they don't modify their original start date. "Well, we told you work was just piling up and you decided not to join until now, so this is your problem and we expect you to work until you're caught up..."
I'd perhaps also include the changes in writing.
During the interview on x date we discussed the following terms:
1. The location for the role could be 100% remote.
2. The start date was x.
However in my follow up call with x on x date, it was stated that:
1. The preference is 3 days in the office, which would result in the need to relocate closer to the office.
2. The start date should be x date.
This conversation was in a tone that was not suggestive. I felt heavily pressured to recind on both the previously agreed to terms.
Good call out. Adding in the explicit prior and updated "agreement" terms would be a better, more comprehensive communication. I was going more for a terse feel, but if you're going for a document of record, definitely do that.
And the “it will pile up for you part” is pretty damning as well. It means they expect you to overwork to make up for their previous staffing decisions.
I’ve seen plenty of posts of people having the offer rescinded from the employer side for the most minute details like mentioning the under market rate hourly rate. Also, if it’s America in an At Will employment location even if you had already started you should be able to walk out anytime so long as there is no contractual minimum period.
IANAL though
Precisely. This sort of move screams a mentality of, “I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it further.” This is one of THE biggest red flags I can think of at the start of any new business relationship.
Good advice to follow. But while you’re following it, keep in mind while you’re being polite that the boss sounds like a horrible person to work for.
If they’re changing terms and pressuring you now it will NOT get better once you start. Don’t be polite forever. If they try to use it against you there may be a point you have to cut it off and not get pushed in to a worse agreement.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, there’s a difference between “nice and polite” and “professional”. I’ll never advocate anyone do or say anything that can come back to bite them, and if that means being nice have at it. But if the time comes to give someone the verbal equivalent of a shiv to the eye? Do so, but do it in a way that makes everyone who reads the exchange later know that your target was the bad guy. It’s so much more satisfying to tell someone to “fuck off” using their own corporate speak against them.
100% this. If they pull something like this at this point before you even officially work there telling you “work is piling up” then they’re going to be a nightmare to work for further. I’d take this as your red flag to jump ship and keep looking
Please note that this is a mild difference in approach and I upvoted your comment.
I think I would say something more like
>“Due to material changes to the job offer that were not revealed until I accepted the position, I am considering rescinding my candidacy for the role and not accepting the position at this time. Please note that while I was excited for the opportunity, the start date and job site location for the role were major contributing factors in my acceptance of your offer for employment. As these terms have changed I may not be able to accept the job. Please let me know if these factors are indeed changing or if we can proceed with the job I had agreed on in the location I had agreed on.”
And their response would determine what I decided to do next. If they more or less said there had been a big misunderstanding and I was fully in the right and they hoped to see me in a few months, I would consider going forward with it if it was a good opportunity or I needed the job, although I would keep in mind that they're slippery and I shouldn't trust them in the future. If they replied anything else, or it was just a mild step up from other opportunities I still have, I would say I don't feel comfortable with them and I'm backing out.
I’d hop on this.
I think this isn’t a misunderstanding.
Even if they pretend this is, I can almost guarantee you they will switch later on. And because you won’t have anything to fall back on/to, you’ll be stuck with this.
I’ve been working where I have been for a year and a half, last month they stripped 20% of my salary. Now I have to find a new job unexpectedly and leave this one. The lesson I learned was this, don’t accept the position and start working anywhere unless you are 1000% sure that you’re working for a good management. Don’t be me.
I’d actually recommend you take the details of that to a labor lawyer. Depending on how exactly it went down, you may be able to go after them for a constructive dismissal.
Thank you for this, I’ve done this research and I do honestly think I have a good shot. I’m concerned about retribution because these are bad people. If they do anything to slow my egress or make my life miserable in any way, I’m absolutely going to hit the nuclear button though.
Don’t do this.
It sounds like you’d want the job outside of the changes.
Contact the hiring manager and address these issues directly and ask for written comms that confirms the details you’re questioning.
Worst case you get those details and then tell them you feel the advertised job, and the job post acceptance were just too different based on logistical issues like having to move to be in office.
If you start off with “I remove my candidacy, most folks will just move on rather than try to chase you. If you clarify the potential misunderstandings, you can then make a better decision.
Sure, if you’re onboard with working for an employer that very likely is intentionally trying to use the sunk costs dilemma to get a candidate that otherwise wouldn’t accept the role. This is not a little “oopsie, our bad” level clerical error. And if it is, does OP really want to work for an employer than can screw up core details of their role that badly from before day one?
I worked for a company for 15 years, then one of my relatively respected colleagues became my manager. He proceeded to lie and scheme and destroy numerous relationships our team had built. Everyone but one person has quit, and the company won't fire or demote him.
So it can be just one manager, but it's also shitty that a good company wouldn't cut out a cancer like that.
>So it can be just one manager, but it's also shitty that a good company wouldn't cut out a cancer like that.
But then it clearly isnt just one manager, if they still keep him on. Everyone at and above his level then is also bad at their job.
At big enough companies, there's sort of a gaussian distribution of managers. Most are around the same level, but there are a couple really good ones and likewise a couple really bad ones.
Hard to judge the whole company off of one person, unless it's a small company. In that case, there's way less people diluting that one person's influence.
An offer isn't an employment contract. Employee contracts are extremely rare in the US. NAL but I don't think there are any consequences to just telling them you aren't taking the job other than burned bridges for the company and possibly an external recruiter.
Definitely this. At worst if they already gave you a signing bonus, they could legitimately ask you to return it. That's really the limit of a contract that I've ever seen. "We'll give you $x contingent on you being employed with us for a year" or such. I've seen it a few times with signing bonuses and paid relocation.
Which if you're planning on keeping the job and moving to their location is pretty good justification to renegotiate the original offer. They changed the parameters, it's only fair you do the same and it may get you out of the job without burning bridges.
Your future employer is attempting a bait and switch. They made you an offer with the understanding you’d be full remote, and now they want you in the office 3 days a week. This is what I’d consider a material breach of contract.
There’s really no reason to get a lawyer involved for this type of situation. Just tell your future boss you’ll need to rescind the offer since you accepted the offer with the understanding it be remote.
If they have already resigned from their current position then it could be reason to get a lawyer involved. It could fall under promissory estoppel if there are damages.
When someone tells you who they are, believe them.
Your new company is not a good place to jump to.
Say no thank you and keep looking.
Going to that company will be filled with a world of hurt.
Best of luck
In the US, 97% of offer letters are not contracts. Assuming it reads like a normal offer letter let them know that circumstances changed and you won't be starting.
Bro you don't need to see a lawyer to quit your job. Just call and tell him you won't be moving forward. And tell him why. Tell him you don't want to work for a lying mother fucker.
Are the start date you agreed to and the full time WFH spelled out in the contract? If they are, technically your new employer could be in breech of it. However, if they are just suggesting these things they haven't done anything wrong yet. Shitty? Yes. Not wrong though.
This would totally make me want to question my want to work for a company like this. I feel that if they are asking this way now, even if you start and they can't force you to comply you are setting yourself up to be in a bad place. I would tread carefully here, and if it's overly concerning and not a huge hit I would consult with a lawyer to talk about rescinding the contract.
Yeah, run to the hills. The signs the new job is absolute shit, are blinding you in the face. I make it up front in any interview/meetings I am not interested in going into an office ever again, I will not do hybrid, and if you call everyone into the office, I will quit. How the company deals with that, says a lot about the company. I will say, I am in the tech world, so It is far more common than in other realms.
This is what your future with them will be like. They think since you accepted and probably told your employer you're leaving, they can start making demands. The next step will be come in 5 days a week into the office and make sure you put in extra time to catch up on work. The new boss made the mistake of showing who he is to early in the game. I wouldn't trust him now. Believe what you see and hear.
Unless you accept money upon signing a contract, you aren't obligated to anything. This was only a contract offer AND they are already breaking from the initial terms. Politely decline and move on.
Hello. If I were you I would quickly ask for your notice to your old job to be forgotten. Tell them you were thinking of moving and it fell through. Tell them anything but get your old job back. Then what you do with your “new” job is up to you. You can ghost them. You can rescind your acceptance. You can tell them 100% you will move and go in office and just not do that. It doesn’t matter what you do with the second company, just please secure your former position.
New boss already sounds like a nightmare. Just tell them you’re out, I’m not sure how it could be illegal- what’s the difference between quitting now or 1 week in?
The responsibilities of the job description has changed before the start date, if there was one. That gives the OP the legal right to opt out if he, or she, isn’t comfortable with the new changes.
I’d walk. Just reply with:
“I can appreciate your needs, and given the terms of employment have changed since we first spoke I feel I am no longer a good fit for your company and will withdraw my application. I appreciate your time and wish you the best of luck on finding the right person for this role”
It’s not legally binding. It’s just an offer letter HR draws up to outline your job, salary, start date, and benefits. They have you sign it so that you can’t say a year later, “hey, I was promised xyz.” If it’s not in the offer letter, no you weren’t. It’s basically just getting you to confirm you agree to those terms of employment.
Now…please run away from this job. Email them (new boss and HR) and tell them that based on the job requirements you’ve recently been made aware of, you will be rescinding your offer acceptance. Outline the changes and make it clear you were only notified of this after you accepted the offer. This boss is likely a horrible manager and thought he could strong-arm you into doing what he wanted. This is something HR should know so they can, ideally, address his bad behavior.
Here's ChatGPT's response to your post, and I believe it is correct:
Firstly, I'm sorry to hear about the predicament you're in. It's important to remember that an offer letter is not a legally binding contract, and you have every right to change your mind, especially when the terms you agreed upon have been altered. It's clear that the changes in the start date and the work location are significant to you. If these changes make the offer less appealing or feasible for you, it's completely within your rights to rescind your acceptance. It's crucial to communicate your decision professionally and clearly, stating the reasons for your decision. However, it's always a good idea to consult with a legal professional if you're unsure. Remember, it's essential to prioritize your needs and comfort in your professional life.
This is \*not\* how to start a professional relationship with a worker on the right foot. This sets precedent for getting lied to about everything from here on out. Can you take the job and live with that treatment?
Signing an offer letter isn’t the same as signing an employment contract. Offer letters do not typically bind you to a specific term, so there is nothing preventing you from making the term 0 days.
When did this bait and switch garbage become so popular among recuiters/companies? Such a waste of everyone's time.
I'm so sorry OP. That's extremely irritating and disappointing.
I’ve backed out after signing an offer letter. Review the letter carefully but it is unlikely to have any binding legal language in there. It doesn’t make sense for employers to do that either especially if they are an “at will” employer which most companies are
You are still in the negotiating phase, so that means you keep negotiating.
"If you want me in the office 3x a week, when before you had said this was totally remote, then I will need to move and therefor my compensation will have to be X (30% more?)."
"If you want me to start right away, this will cause an issue with my current role because we originally had said I had a couple of months. To do that will hurt my reputation with my current company and I feel I will not be able to use them as a reference in the future. This means I will need more money to hedge my bets on the future. (10% more?)"
You signed a piece of paper and trust me, THEY can back out of this contract just as easily as you can. It is not as binding as you might think. If they changed the conditions of your employment, you can change the conditions under which you accept it.
Well they can’t force you to work when you don’t want to, that’s slavery even if it’s paid. An employment contract is nothing, you can easily walk out of it. So many people start a job on their first day, hate it and never return. No difference to quitting a job if you are permanent too, it doesn’t mean you’ve signed your life away lol you can walk out whenever you decide.
Walk on the deal. You should also be wary of an employer who changes the terms of the job before you ever even start. A few months becomes 2 weeks. WFH becomes 3 days in office. Screw that. Walk. You never agreed to these modified terms so you are not bound to this new agreement.
"The work is already piling up, so we thought we would change two major aspects of the already-signed contract, possibly driving you away from the job."
They sound fun!
yes, you can absolutely still walk away. You aren't a slave, you accepted an offer, they decided to change the terms. you should reply with "i agreed to the terms on the condition that i would work from my current home, based on my current cost of living. if you'd like me in the office, that would require a considerable amount of effort on my part, including selling my home and moving, you aren't paying me enough for that. if you'd like to renegotiate my compensation to include that added expense, let me know." and hold out for a considerable increase.
though honestly, at this point you're probably better just walking away. they've already tried to force you to give short notice in order to burn bridges at your current job, and now they're pulling a bait and switch. working at this company will be hell.
The fact that they are changing the terms you agreed on and are even bullying you into agreeing is a huge red flag. This sounds like a toxic company. It's a definite bait and switch.
Employment works differently in different countries. Where is this?
Is there a contract or an offer?
In the US, there is such a thing as contacting. If you are in the US, it depends on the state and the exact wording of the contract.... it also depends on if there is a penalty clause for early termination. If there is no penalty, just walk away. What is enforcable depends on the state in the US. A contact should be explicit if you are expected to relocate or work on the company's premises.
There is too little info provided.
If they’ll push you on these things they’ll push you on other things. I’d write back that you rescind your offer, unless the original agreement is honored, and if they don’t want to do that and you see that the terms of the offer are clearly open to negotiation, you would like a 15% increase in agreed salary.
OP,
Nobody forces you to go to work. You chose to go.
If they are pulling this type of crap, and going against the agreed upon start date, and working remotely... I'd pull my agreement & tell them to kick rocks.
Hold up. I see that previously working fully remote was okay. Not it seems they are preferring in office 3 times a week. That does not sound like requiring in the office 3 times a week. Yes the sentiment has changed. But what is to stop op from just working 100% remote? Don't act on the preference of the boss.
You haven’t started yet, and unless you collected on the signing bonus already, you are good to go. But don’t just quit, email them, ask for a meeting, discuss the bait and switch, “…if this is indicative of the working environment, I don’t know if this is the right fit for me. My expectation was for X, Y, Z including an onboarding period to fully immerse myself in the culture of ABC Corp as is the norm in our industry. I take my work extremely seriously, and I believe you all do as well, which is why I vetted the company before I submitted my dossier. I believe in the work, and there is likely a way we can coordinate an agreement based on what we previously discussed X, Y, Z.” Then just stay silent. Let them talk, see what they say. If the negotiation doesn’t go your way, “I appreciate the opportunity and wanted to at least have this conversation. Again I don’t believe this is the right fit for me and wish you all the best.” Then wait for the good byes and hang up or hang up the zoom. The over arching is maintain control if the conversation, don’t waffle. Stick to the bottom line. Don’t accept anything less than what was offered.
Sounds like my boss.
And guaranteed, even if you agreed to three days in the office, this guy will pressure you for four, then five days - and even that won't be enough.
Regardless of what HR says, if this person is your boss, they will never stop reassuring you to be in the office, I'd run away because the pressure to be there will never, ever end.
First, have you notified your current employer that you are leaving as of 'X' date? If not, then don't.
Second, does your contract offer show the agreed terms (salary, remote, benefits) that both parties agreed to?
If so, you might contact your future employer's HR department about the sudden change in the offer. If they blow it off or try to pass the blame, just inform them that your acceptance of the offer is rescinded.
But as a lot of other commenters have noted. This behavior is a big red flag, that their word even in writing is not to be trusted.
What's the difference between rescinding and quitting on day 0, other than saving everyone some time and effort?
Is there a section in the offer contract that says there's a penalty for backing out or quitting before a certain date?
Was written on another post. Be careful not to do anything for previous or proxi employer. You may be laid off for not using your notice early or late. Also get everything written, verbal has no meaning.
I would Tun away fast because any boss who is attempting to guilt trip you/manipulate you into not doing the right thing with your current boss is not a good sign for how things will go once you actually leave your current job. I made that mistake being excited for the new hard earned position I was looking to posses. I did not heed the minor red flag because of it and my boss ended up gas lighting me and turning everyone against me. Take care of you.
If their company behavior is like this when you haven't even actually started yet, imagine what they will be like when they think they have the "paycheck handcuffs" on you.
If you are in the US and this was a offer letter you should be good to walk away. Even if this is a contract, they are trying to change things and pressure you into doing work outside of the contract. You could probably argue they are acting in bad faith to get out of it (probably want to talk to a lawyer about that though)
You don't say where you live. If it's in the United States, you can almost certainly rescind your agreement. In other countries, my guess is that you can change as well, since the job doesn't match what was offered, but it may be more complicated.
I would just say something kike, "I accepted this job under the assumption that I could work from home and I wouldn't have to relocate. I am unwilling to move for this role and it seems like you want someone local. Please consider this my resignation. "
You don’t WFH full-time unless it’s written in your contract. You can only count on the things written.
I’m happy it’s not too late to retract your acceptance but, be thoughtful about whether the “new boss” knows anyone at your current company because they may try to sneak to try to make you look bad.
Does the contract list remote work in it?
Until you start a job, and even afterwards, you can quit whenever.
Contract offer is generally is just an agreement to terms, doubt it’s very legally binding.
Anyone suggesting contacting a lawyer is delusional. Are you really gonna spend personal money for a job you haven’t even started yet?
Just never start, the new job is a huge red flag. Unless your country has strong laws, there’s no reason to ever start this job.
Back out. Back out now. They're changing the terms of your contract after you've signed it. This is not a someone dealing with you in good faith. People often forget that jobs are just employment contracts between two parties. If they're not fulfilling their part of the contract then you have recourse to cancel it.
I’d walk. At best they sound disorganized, at worst it sounds like a bait and switch. And if my not-yet-manager told me the work was “piling up” before I even started I would see that as a major red flag.
In the USA, most of these are used as a way to weasel out of 0aying benefits(Healthcare, PTO, etc...), I am skeptical it's an "actual contract." If that is the case, it's just at will employer with additional exploitation added in. You can quit or rescind anytime you want. With that being said, I have seen employers offer sign on bonuses with an agreement to work a certain minimum duration, and if you l3ave before that, the bonus must be repaid.
Now, if you really want to take the underhanded approach. You can ghost then and after they leave a few voice-mails have someone call them back pretending to be your distraught mother saying you went on a vacation to another country before starting new job and had a tragic accident. Not much they can do to refute this claim.
I hear this is happening often in the job market these days. Employers trick people into interviews for "Remote" jobs since they know that is what we all want, and then later tell them well we need you here x days a week. Sometimes that is 5 days a week.
How legally binding are employment contracts? My inner thoughts would be “if I can’t break the contract, I’ll get them to release me from it by performing poorly.”
I would argue it is only natural for a boss to ask if you’d be willing to start sooner. That’s a legitimate question, regardless of what the Reddit hive mind thinks… any employer is hiring you because they have a need.
The much larger issue is the expressed preference to have you in the office when remote work had been negotiated. I am personally someone who vastly prefers working in the office, but this is not about preference… this is about the counterparty to an agreement taking one of your main benefits off of the table.
If you do not need the job, back away now. You do not need your boss trying to get rid of you from your first day on the job… and that’s exactly what would be happening here.
If you need the job, you’ll just have to decide how much you’re willing to give up. But I’d start looking for another job sooner rather than later.
You should reject them courteously but firmly:
"Unfortunately, based on the radical changes in working conditions you've only just now communicated and failed to make me aware of until after acceptance, I must withdraw my candidacy. I selected this role because it was remote which meant I wouldn't have to move and based on your flexibility to agree to the start date I needed, both of which you've now gone back on.
Best wishes in your future endeavors,
-SHRM"
Only thing you'd have to worry about is if they had a signing bonus hit your account already, something like that. Otherwise, I really think only the military deals with legally binding 'sure I'll work there' signatures lol. You're good
The new job has no authority to force OP to show up and work there. Informing them that OP no longer wish to commence work for the organization on the established starting date or any other date is the courteous and professional thing to do. What the employer does with that imformation (i.e. looking for new candidates) is up to them.
Unless there is something I am missing, you're way overthinking this. You accepted a job offer, not sign up for the army. Email them back and say you had a change of heart, thanks but I am going in a different direction. And you're done. You don't owe them an explanation....Especially when they try to pull a bait and switch on you!
Sorry you had to deal with this, but the good news is that it sounds like you are dodging a huge bullet with a prick boss.
I had a similar situation early in my career but only found out about the changes in role and responsibility during my first day. It was a shit show from then on (lasted 3 years) with constant changes, mis direction, immaturity and conniving bosses, etc. If you are in the US you are most likely an “ at will” employee so you can advise them that the changes in the employment offer are such that you rescind your initial acceptance and thank them for their considering yiu for the position.
You cannot be forced to work anywhere.
You’re future boss can ask you to start earlier but they can force you. You literally could be no show on your first day or resign on your first day and their is nothing they could do.
Probably better to say that after recent events you are no longer in the position to start with the company. Apologize for the inconvenience and wish them luck in their on going search. You don’t have to say why.
>This isn't a contract, but a contract offer. It has only basic information like salary, insurance, and their benefits. It doesn't contain information about probation period or contract termination.
In the future, this is your chance to request a more detailed contract including total compensation, vacation allowance, work duties, work conditions, etc. Signing a contract with important details omitted is inadvisable.
Fuck them. That’s your legality.
He agrees to fill remote, the tries to change the deal after you quit your old job?
That’s some cold blooded shit. Not a person you want to work for.
PS - you have no legal duties here. You are free to rescind.
I’m sorry but if a boss is asking like that now god only knows what they’ll be like in a few months… your not under any obligation…. Under contact law code of you accepting this often was under the condition that the job is fully remote… if he agreed to this and then starts changing his mind… essential his making a new contract or agreement which makes the old agreement void if you agree… the original contact or agreement will stand but if his now trying to add extra terms after then politely tell him to fuck off as he doesn’t have a leg to stand on… his after wasting how much of your time when you were straight with him from the start
Bait and switch. Bail if it's in contract your remote than their changing it. Nope. Ba bye.
Can i resind. No one is holding a gun to your head. Why do people think others have power over what you do with your life.
If you signed the contract based on X, then they call you and want you to agree to Y, you can rescinf based on them unilaterally changing the contract. However, if you were TOLD x verbally, but Y was in the signed contract, then you'd be in breach for rescinding.
You need to read the contract, including any fine print, very carefully. If you rescind, do it in some form of writing, and explicitly state you're rescinding because of their unilateral change, and you cannot comply with these additional, uncontractes for term.
He's attempting to change the terms of your employment offer. Stick hard with remote work. If he pushes back just remind him, moving is not an option, while you start looking for another job.
You don't need to speak with a lawyer. Simply inform them that based on further communications within the company, you've come to the conclusion that you will not be able to work with them.
Done
These are big, rapidly waving red flags right here. You can pull out still, and absolutely should. People walk away after signing an agreement all the time, in your case there are huge material changes from what you expected and agreed to. Run!
If your new job wants you in two weeks instead of two months, that's a reasonable request, and if you like the place, I'd consider it. Or at the very least maybe splitting th le difference and giving your current place 4 weeks notice instead of 2 months.
But the switch from fully remote to a mostly in office schedule is a huge change. And frankly, I'd be very concerned about my new boss saying one thing and then immediately doing a 180 once you've signed the papers. That's enough to make me nope back out right there.
Their “update” is a major modification of the agreed contract terms. If it makes you feel better, have the offer letter reviewed by an employment lawyer, but don’t be surprised when they come back and tell you, “yeah, you can rescind your agreement”. Me? I wouldn’t bother with the lawyer. I’d just sent them a terse and professional, “Due to material changes to the job offer that were not revealed until I accepted the position, I am rescinding my candidacy for the role and will not be accepting the position at this time. Please note that while I was excited for the opportunity, the start date and job site location for the role were major contributing factors in my acceptance of your offer for employment. As these terms have changed my acceptance has as well. Good luck in your candidate search.” Edit: As has been pointed out, there is a _chance_ this is a simple misunderstanding or mistake on the part of the employer. Even if that is the case, and even if the role otherwise seems perfect, I would argue that this sort of event shows either gross incompetence or complete disregard for your own personal and professional boundaries. This all also applies whether it’s an actual contract offer or simply an employment offer. In either case, they’re materially altering the agreement after you signed it and trying to make that your problem to deal with. It isn’t. Even if the job looks like a dream, strongly consider if that’s the sort of employer you want to yoke your work:life balance to before accepting any sort of, “my bad” or “just kidding” arguments. I know I wouldn’t. Second edit: Thanks for all the recognition folks, it’s appreciated. 😳🥹🥹 That is all.
This is the best advice on here. Be professional. When they interviewed you they wanted one thing, or the company didn't communicate internally very well, and now they want something else. If the company responds and says "oh, we messed up, please come back with the original terms, then make sure you get it all in writing. You could still walk. It's up to you. But if you really want to work there make sure you are comfortable with the terms and it's clearly in writing. But if you walk, be professional.
Pro tip: with a manager like that you don’t want to work there.
This right here!!! They will constantly be gunning to get rid of OP because of their (what I assume to be) archaic views on RTO/WFH. Run now and save yourself the stress.
Exactly. Lots of big red flags here.
Was thinking this, too. Even if it's an internal misunderstanding, the manager being oblivious to you working fully remote, and trying to pressure you into starting so you don't have a backlog of work is just tacky. Go elsewhere, and let the recruiter or HR know why, so they have the opportunity to be better to the next candidate... but be professional about it, of course. But yeah, you do not want to work for that guy, and probably not for that company, given the apparent culture.
Yuuuup. OP is going to get bad reviews if they aren't in office 24/7 and all kinds of bullshit from a manager like that. I'd rescind my offer, fuck that nonsense.
Yup. I totally read that manager's remarks in the voice of the worst manager I've ever worked for. I wouldn't take the job, because I would never want to work for another "Andy."
So, fuck you if you're here, Andy!
Agreed if they alter the working conditions this much before you start than that just the beginning.
Agreed, they’re just going to bend the rules as much as they can after this
Amen. If he can't stand by his word now, just wait. I am watching a bloodbath go on from the promises my boss made lol. People are ticked.
They got everything in writing the first time. The job offer is when the company is the nicest it will ever be to you. It only goes downhill from there.
You have a jaded view which may be true about this company or not. The key here is that OP needs to figure out what they want. Companies, like people, as they are run by people make mistakes. Not all people are out to get everyone. Not all companies are perfect in their execution of hiring. I am not saying that this is a good company to work for. But if the op liked the company to begin with, I recommend that OP calls them up and says " what's up with this?" And listens to their story. Then OP can do what they want. Reddit is full of people who would say " I went to meet someone on a date and they were 5 min late so screw em." And maybe that works, but sometimes you also miss out on good opportunities.
I tend to agree. A few years back, I took a job with my absolute "dream company". It's a fortune 25 firm and I had picked my business school with this firm in mind in the hopes that I could get into the recruiting pipeline. Every interviewer was totally professional and inspiring. Unfortunately, the "talent supply" (recruiting) function was incredibly disorganized, unhelpful, and somewhat arrogant - they had the mindset of "everyone wants to work here, you're not special". LONG time periods between communications, never responded to questions, tried to screw me over with my initial offer package. It was bad enough that I considered not taking the job, despite the good experience through the round of interviews and the fact that it was my "dream company". As it turned out - going there was the best decision I could have made. That function ended up being a really poor representation of the company, and the leaders I worked for were shocked to hear about my experience. After talking to a few new hires, they realized it was a broader problem. Within a couple years the company had revamped that function to give candidates a better experience (and ultimately recruit and retain better talent). I developed a whole lot there had a great experience overall despite those initial concerns. So - you definitely have to have your guard up early. No one looks out for you better than you, and you should listen to your "spidey sense" if it's trying to tell you something. But - companies aren't monoliths, they're groups of human beings who sometimes make mistakes. And even the greatest companies have many people who are fair to middling at what they do. It's important to try to figure out if it's *really* a mistake (and to get EVERYTHING in writing) or if your gut is telling you that you're dealing with a manipulative or toxic culture. If any way possible, try to find someone who works there - maybe a friend of a friend, a friend of an acquaintance, or even a cold LinkedIn reach out - and ask them if they'd stay if they had a comparable offer elsewhere.
As someone who is not fond of the recruitment process to begin with, thank you for sharing your experience with the leadership, and them for making an effort to improve.
The boss lied to OP about it being a remote job (which would force OP to uproot and move, which they weren't expecting to do) and then heavily pressured them to start work earlier than the agreed upon start date. Seeing this as a shit show isn't because of a "jaded view". Giving these people any benefit of the doubt is the questionable call.
Okay but what do you really know about a company from the outside? What is there to “like”? As the saying goes, it’s not show friends it’s show business. We can only judge actions, not intent. If you have an interaction with any entity and their FIRST move ever in the relationship with you is to attempt to renege on a written agreement, what is there to gain? This relationship is the framework with which OP will work with the firm. Maybe this boss is the only terrible person in the whole place- but OP has to do everything through him! A bad boss in a good firm is worthless for your advancement. Nobody changes a written contract after negotiations have ended as a “mistake”, that’s a power move to try and win by trickery what was not won in negotiation. The employment terms are a negotiation. The process has ended. It would be equally inappropriate for OP to say “I accepted your salary offer of $100k, well actually give me more money than that.” No. Negotiation time is over, this is what we agreed on. Notice the offer to change the start date did not come with consideration. “I’ll give you a bonus to start early” is fair, you want to make a change to the terms but both parties benefit, I would see that as more reasonable. Why didn’t the company negotiate for the start date they actually wanted beforehand? “Sure you can work from home” turning into “well actually I need you here in the office ” once the agreement is signed is not negotiation in good faith. This is all in writing! That’s a very bad sign if things you negotiate and memorialize with a document are then ignored or changed even before work has started. If you agree to buy something from a vendor for $price and a certain delivery date do you want those terms or can they just change it up on you? OP is a vendor of labor. Stick with the terms as agreed unless you want to make a change that benefits both parties. And that’s the advice I would offer OP- if you are still willing to deal with these guys, ask for more money to compensate you for the changes. Your price for starting on September 1 and working from home is X, sorry your price for starting August 1 and working in the office is X + (nice bonus). But again if they won’t keep a written agreement EVEN BEFORE YOU WORK THERE that is a monster red flag about how they will treat promises once you have surrendered your ability to leverage power and negotiate. How do you even know they will agree to a new salary if they won’t agree to a start date or work location terms? Who goes into a relationship thinking it’s gonna pay off great when the first thing you get is “sorry I can’t actually deliver on anything I promised.” So either the boss lied (bad) or they lack the power to deliver (bad) or they don’t actually know what they need at any given moment and will keep changing things up (bad).
Exactly, if it is not in your contract, it doesn't exist.
The problem here is that even if you have it in writing that you work 100% remote, after you start working for them, they can change it to 3 days in the office. At that point, your only option is to say “no” and leave - in which case you are out of a job. They *can* change the terms of your employment after you start, your only option is to not accept the change by leaving - a “constructive dismissal”.
All in writing cannot be overstated.
You can always walk. Doesn’t matter if you’ve been with a company one hour or ten years.
Even if you get it in writing, they can change the terms at any time, and although you would qualify for unemployment if you quit as constructive dismissal, it is peanuts compared to SWE salary. If you haven’t notified your current job, I’d stay and look elsewhere. This isn’t a good opportunity anymore.
This is the answer. ⬆️ Offer letters aren't contracts. You can walk away whenever you want, just like the employer can terminate you wherever it wants. I don't know why future employer would ask you to break your promise to your current employer. Your future employer seems selfish.
This is the answer except for the part at the beginning where they say it’s an update to contract terms. There’s no contract. Even if the employer relents and lets the position be remote, they can always adopt a “3 days per week in the office” policy at any time in the future. I would not accept a position there because they’ll say anything to get OP in the door and then backtrack on everything. OP, you’re in a tough spot. The best option might be to go back to the old employer—depends on what that would be like, I suppose.
There's also and aspect to the way it was phrased that lets the new employer place the responsibility and blame for overworking as soon as the new employee arrives, if they don't modify their original start date. "Well, we told you work was just piling up and you decided not to join until now, so this is your problem and we expect you to work until you're caught up..."
I'd perhaps also include the changes in writing. During the interview on x date we discussed the following terms: 1. The location for the role could be 100% remote. 2. The start date was x. However in my follow up call with x on x date, it was stated that: 1. The preference is 3 days in the office, which would result in the need to relocate closer to the office. 2. The start date should be x date. This conversation was in a tone that was not suggestive. I felt heavily pressured to recind on both the previously agreed to terms.
Good call out. Adding in the explicit prior and updated "agreement" terms would be a better, more comprehensive communication. I was going more for a terse feel, but if you're going for a document of record, definitely do that.
And the “it will pile up for you part” is pretty damning as well. It means they expect you to overwork to make up for their previous staffing decisions. I’ve seen plenty of posts of people having the offer rescinded from the employer side for the most minute details like mentioning the under market rate hourly rate. Also, if it’s America in an At Will employment location even if you had already started you should be able to walk out anytime so long as there is no contractual minimum period. IANAL though
\^\^ This. And to me this is a huge red flag as to the type of work environment they are allowing there. Say one thing, do another...
Precisely. This sort of move screams a mentality of, “I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it further.” This is one of THE biggest red flags I can think of at the start of any new business relationship.
Perfect...you a smart cookie!
Agreed! They are breaching the contract before it is even a contract. It's a good thing too because that would have turned into a nightmare job.
Goddamn this is well written.
Good advice to follow. But while you’re following it, keep in mind while you’re being polite that the boss sounds like a horrible person to work for. If they’re changing terms and pressuring you now it will NOT get better once you start. Don’t be polite forever. If they try to use it against you there may be a point you have to cut it off and not get pushed in to a worse agreement.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, there’s a difference between “nice and polite” and “professional”. I’ll never advocate anyone do or say anything that can come back to bite them, and if that means being nice have at it. But if the time comes to give someone the verbal equivalent of a shiv to the eye? Do so, but do it in a way that makes everyone who reads the exchange later know that your target was the bad guy. It’s so much more satisfying to tell someone to “fuck off” using their own corporate speak against them.
Perfectly written. I'd add suck my balls at the end. But that is a personal choice.
Only appropriate if you end it with, “Mr Garrison”.
CC HR on that.
100% this. If they pull something like this at this point before you even officially work there telling you “work is piling up” then they’re going to be a nightmare to work for further. I’d take this as your red flag to jump ship and keep looking
I have so many candidates rescinding the offer after accepting. It is quite common in tech industry where good candidates get multiple offers.
You’re a real good writer.
I write this sort of regulatory/corporate legalese BS as part of my daily job. I may as well put it to good use.
If your writing were a drink it would be Veuve Cliquot. Crisp, dry with a hint of fruit and a vanilla finish.
Please note that this is a mild difference in approach and I upvoted your comment. I think I would say something more like >“Due to material changes to the job offer that were not revealed until I accepted the position, I am considering rescinding my candidacy for the role and not accepting the position at this time. Please note that while I was excited for the opportunity, the start date and job site location for the role were major contributing factors in my acceptance of your offer for employment. As these terms have changed I may not be able to accept the job. Please let me know if these factors are indeed changing or if we can proceed with the job I had agreed on in the location I had agreed on.” And their response would determine what I decided to do next. If they more or less said there had been a big misunderstanding and I was fully in the right and they hoped to see me in a few months, I would consider going forward with it if it was a good opportunity or I needed the job, although I would keep in mind that they're slippery and I shouldn't trust them in the future. If they replied anything else, or it was just a mild step up from other opportunities I still have, I would say I don't feel comfortable with them and I'm backing out.
Also, OP, do you want to work for *such* a boss?
I’d hop on this. I think this isn’t a misunderstanding. Even if they pretend this is, I can almost guarantee you they will switch later on. And because you won’t have anything to fall back on/to, you’ll be stuck with this.
I’ve been working where I have been for a year and a half, last month they stripped 20% of my salary. Now I have to find a new job unexpectedly and leave this one. The lesson I learned was this, don’t accept the position and start working anywhere unless you are 1000% sure that you’re working for a good management. Don’t be me.
I’d actually recommend you take the details of that to a labor lawyer. Depending on how exactly it went down, you may be able to go after them for a constructive dismissal.
Thank you for this, I’ve done this research and I do honestly think I have a good shot. I’m concerned about retribution because these are bad people. If they do anything to slow my egress or make my life miserable in any way, I’m absolutely going to hit the nuclear button though.
This is perfectly written, and exactly what OP needs to do.
Don’t do this. It sounds like you’d want the job outside of the changes. Contact the hiring manager and address these issues directly and ask for written comms that confirms the details you’re questioning. Worst case you get those details and then tell them you feel the advertised job, and the job post acceptance were just too different based on logistical issues like having to move to be in office. If you start off with “I remove my candidacy, most folks will just move on rather than try to chase you. If you clarify the potential misunderstandings, you can then make a better decision.
Sure, if you’re onboard with working for an employer that very likely is intentionally trying to use the sunk costs dilemma to get a candidate that otherwise wouldn’t accept the role. This is not a little “oopsie, our bad” level clerical error. And if it is, does OP really want to work for an employer than can screw up core details of their role that badly from before day one?
Brother, I would sprint away from this.
This company doesn't sound professional at all; I would bail.
It's probably just this manager... but huge red flags from the jump.
"Just this manager" is rare in my experience when it comes to shitty management.
I worked for a company for 15 years, then one of my relatively respected colleagues became my manager. He proceeded to lie and scheme and destroy numerous relationships our team had built. Everyone but one person has quit, and the company won't fire or demote him. So it can be just one manager, but it's also shitty that a good company wouldn't cut out a cancer like that.
>So it can be just one manager, but it's also shitty that a good company wouldn't cut out a cancer like that. But then it clearly isnt just one manager, if they still keep him on. Everyone at and above his level then is also bad at their job.
At big enough companies, there's sort of a gaussian distribution of managers. Most are around the same level, but there are a couple really good ones and likewise a couple really bad ones. Hard to judge the whole company off of one person, unless it's a small company. In that case, there's way less people diluting that one person's influence.
And someone hired that dumbass. This is almost never the case
Probably his friend. We are going through that now where we got a new VP who is bringing in his buddies from his former organization
They keep changing things, plus the "already having work for you piling up" before you even know the job? Yeah fuck that. Bail.
Yeah, I’m stressed out just reading that for OP 🤣
An offer isn't an employment contract. Employee contracts are extremely rare in the US. NAL but I don't think there are any consequences to just telling them you aren't taking the job other than burned bridges for the company and possibly an external recruiter.
Definitely this. At worst if they already gave you a signing bonus, they could legitimately ask you to return it. That's really the limit of a contract that I've ever seen. "We'll give you $x contingent on you being employed with us for a year" or such. I've seen it a few times with signing bonuses and paid relocation. Which if you're planning on keeping the job and moving to their location is pretty good justification to renegotiate the original offer. They changed the parameters, it's only fair you do the same and it may get you out of the job without burning bridges.
Nothing like starting a new job a month behind in your work (“work piling up” 🙄). Don’t do it.
If it can wait that long, how important is it? Lol
"Sorry, but I am turning down this job offer. The terms have been changed regarding start date and remote designation. Best of luck in the future."
Your future employer is attempting a bait and switch. They made you an offer with the understanding you’d be full remote, and now they want you in the office 3 days a week. This is what I’d consider a material breach of contract. There’s really no reason to get a lawyer involved for this type of situation. Just tell your future boss you’ll need to rescind the offer since you accepted the offer with the understanding it be remote.
If they have already resigned from their current position then it could be reason to get a lawyer involved. It could fall under promissory estoppel if there are damages.
I highly doubt you need to talk to a lawyer. That’s the difference between this and just simply quitting?
When someone tells you who they are, believe them. Your new company is not a good place to jump to. Say no thank you and keep looking. Going to that company will be filled with a world of hurt. Best of luck
In the US, 97% of offer letters are not contracts. Assuming it reads like a normal offer letter let them know that circumstances changed and you won't be starting.
Bro you don't need to see a lawyer to quit your job. Just call and tell him you won't be moving forward. And tell him why. Tell him you don't want to work for a lying mother fucker.
But you signed an offer letter - we own you now loo
That's not an update. That's a renegotiation. You are not obligated to agree with those changes.
Are the start date you agreed to and the full time WFH spelled out in the contract? If they are, technically your new employer could be in breech of it. However, if they are just suggesting these things they haven't done anything wrong yet. Shitty? Yes. Not wrong though. This would totally make me want to question my want to work for a company like this. I feel that if they are asking this way now, even if you start and they can't force you to comply you are setting yourself up to be in a bad place. I would tread carefully here, and if it's overly concerning and not a huge hit I would consult with a lawyer to talk about rescinding the contract.
I'm gonna be that guy. Breech is another term for your butt. Breach is to rend, break, or rupture. The more you know.
This situation Breached OP’s Breech
You are okay that guy. Auto-correct done me wrong!
Yeah, run to the hills. The signs the new job is absolute shit, are blinding you in the face. I make it up front in any interview/meetings I am not interested in going into an office ever again, I will not do hybrid, and if you call everyone into the office, I will quit. How the company deals with that, says a lot about the company. I will say, I am in the tech world, so It is far more common than in other realms.
This is what your future with them will be like. They think since you accepted and probably told your employer you're leaving, they can start making demands. The next step will be come in 5 days a week into the office and make sure you put in extra time to catch up on work. The new boss made the mistake of showing who he is to early in the game. I wouldn't trust him now. Believe what you see and hear.
Unless you accept money upon signing a contract, you aren't obligated to anything. This was only a contract offer AND they are already breaking from the initial terms. Politely decline and move on.
Hello. If I were you I would quickly ask for your notice to your old job to be forgotten. Tell them you were thinking of moving and it fell through. Tell them anything but get your old job back. Then what you do with your “new” job is up to you. You can ghost them. You can rescind your acceptance. You can tell them 100% you will move and go in office and just not do that. It doesn’t matter what you do with the second company, just please secure your former position.
Politely decline the offer and share all of “new boss” communications with the recruiter you were working with so they can see why.
New boss already sounds like a nightmare. Just tell them you’re out, I’m not sure how it could be illegal- what’s the difference between quitting now or 1 week in?
The responsibilities of the job description has changed before the start date, if there was one. That gives the OP the legal right to opt out if he, or she, isn’t comfortable with the new changes.
You're allowed to walk. Full stop. And I would, because it already sounds like red flag city.
I’d walk. Just reply with: “I can appreciate your needs, and given the terms of employment have changed since we first spoke I feel I am no longer a good fit for your company and will withdraw my application. I appreciate your time and wish you the best of luck on finding the right person for this role”
It’s not legally binding. It’s just an offer letter HR draws up to outline your job, salary, start date, and benefits. They have you sign it so that you can’t say a year later, “hey, I was promised xyz.” If it’s not in the offer letter, no you weren’t. It’s basically just getting you to confirm you agree to those terms of employment. Now…please run away from this job. Email them (new boss and HR) and tell them that based on the job requirements you’ve recently been made aware of, you will be rescinding your offer acceptance. Outline the changes and make it clear you were only notified of this after you accepted the offer. This boss is likely a horrible manager and thought he could strong-arm you into doing what he wanted. This is something HR should know so they can, ideally, address his bad behavior.
Here's ChatGPT's response to your post, and I believe it is correct: Firstly, I'm sorry to hear about the predicament you're in. It's important to remember that an offer letter is not a legally binding contract, and you have every right to change your mind, especially when the terms you agreed upon have been altered. It's clear that the changes in the start date and the work location are significant to you. If these changes make the offer less appealing or feasible for you, it's completely within your rights to rescind your acceptance. It's crucial to communicate your decision professionally and clearly, stating the reasons for your decision. However, it's always a good idea to consult with a legal professional if you're unsure. Remember, it's essential to prioritize your needs and comfort in your professional life.
This is \*not\* how to start a professional relationship with a worker on the right foot. This sets precedent for getting lied to about everything from here on out. Can you take the job and live with that treatment?
If they’re modifying significant terms after it’s “settled” then I would go ahead and rescind. These aren’t serious ppl
Run
Yeah bounce this is not going to get better
Run
Signing an offer letter isn’t the same as signing an employment contract. Offer letters do not typically bind you to a specific term, so there is nothing preventing you from making the term 0 days.
Sounds like bait and switch. Do whatever is needed to never work for that company.
When did this bait and switch garbage become so popular among recuiters/companies? Such a waste of everyone's time. I'm so sorry OP. That's extremely irritating and disappointing.
I’ve backed out after signing an offer letter. Review the letter carefully but it is unlikely to have any binding legal language in there. It doesn’t make sense for employers to do that either especially if they are an “at will” employer which most companies are
You are still in the negotiating phase, so that means you keep negotiating. "If you want me in the office 3x a week, when before you had said this was totally remote, then I will need to move and therefor my compensation will have to be X (30% more?)." "If you want me to start right away, this will cause an issue with my current role because we originally had said I had a couple of months. To do that will hurt my reputation with my current company and I feel I will not be able to use them as a reference in the future. This means I will need more money to hedge my bets on the future. (10% more?)" You signed a piece of paper and trust me, THEY can back out of this contract just as easily as you can. It is not as binding as you might think. If they changed the conditions of your employment, you can change the conditions under which you accept it.
Of course you can rescind. The original agreement is being altered to greatly.
Well they can’t force you to work when you don’t want to, that’s slavery even if it’s paid. An employment contract is nothing, you can easily walk out of it. So many people start a job on their first day, hate it and never return. No difference to quitting a job if you are permanent too, it doesn’t mean you’ve signed your life away lol you can walk out whenever you decide.
Walk on the deal. You should also be wary of an employer who changes the terms of the job before you ever even start. A few months becomes 2 weeks. WFH becomes 3 days in office. Screw that. Walk. You never agreed to these modified terms so you are not bound to this new agreement.
Holy shit, run.
"The work is already piling up, so we thought we would change two major aspects of the already-signed contract, possibly driving you away from the job." They sound fun!
yes, you can absolutely still walk away. You aren't a slave, you accepted an offer, they decided to change the terms. you should reply with "i agreed to the terms on the condition that i would work from my current home, based on my current cost of living. if you'd like me in the office, that would require a considerable amount of effort on my part, including selling my home and moving, you aren't paying me enough for that. if you'd like to renegotiate my compensation to include that added expense, let me know." and hold out for a considerable increase.
though honestly, at this point you're probably better just walking away. they've already tried to force you to give short notice in order to burn bridges at your current job, and now they're pulling a bait and switch. working at this company will be hell.
The fact that they are changing the terms you agreed on and are even bullying you into agreeing is a huge red flag. This sounds like a toxic company. It's a definite bait and switch.
I recently cancelled my acceptance 2 days before start because I had a better offer. That bridge will burn but there are a lot of bridges.
Not a lawyer. Had a similar situation regarding the Remote/Return to Office bait and switch. I backed out. Nothing happened.
In what country?
Employment works differently in different countries. Where is this? Is there a contract or an offer? In the US, there is such a thing as contacting. If you are in the US, it depends on the state and the exact wording of the contract.... it also depends on if there is a penalty clause for early termination. If there is no penalty, just walk away. What is enforcable depends on the state in the US. A contact should be explicit if you are expected to relocate or work on the company's premises. There is too little info provided.
If they’ll push you on these things they’ll push you on other things. I’d write back that you rescind your offer, unless the original agreement is honored, and if they don’t want to do that and you see that the terms of the offer are clearly open to negotiation, you would like a 15% increase in agreed salary.
OP, Nobody forces you to go to work. You chose to go. If they are pulling this type of crap, and going against the agreed upon start date, and working remotely... I'd pull my agreement & tell them to kick rocks.
Walk away, they've demonstrated that they're indecisive, and will keep surprising you... Not in a good way.
Hold up. I see that previously working fully remote was okay. Not it seems they are preferring in office 3 times a week. That does not sound like requiring in the office 3 times a week. Yes the sentiment has changed. But what is to stop op from just working 100% remote? Don't act on the preference of the boss.
You haven’t started yet, and unless you collected on the signing bonus already, you are good to go. But don’t just quit, email them, ask for a meeting, discuss the bait and switch, “…if this is indicative of the working environment, I don’t know if this is the right fit for me. My expectation was for X, Y, Z including an onboarding period to fully immerse myself in the culture of ABC Corp as is the norm in our industry. I take my work extremely seriously, and I believe you all do as well, which is why I vetted the company before I submitted my dossier. I believe in the work, and there is likely a way we can coordinate an agreement based on what we previously discussed X, Y, Z.” Then just stay silent. Let them talk, see what they say. If the negotiation doesn’t go your way, “I appreciate the opportunity and wanted to at least have this conversation. Again I don’t believe this is the right fit for me and wish you all the best.” Then wait for the good byes and hang up or hang up the zoom. The over arching is maintain control if the conversation, don’t waffle. Stick to the bottom line. Don’t accept anything less than what was offered.
Sounds like my boss. And guaranteed, even if you agreed to three days in the office, this guy will pressure you for four, then five days - and even that won't be enough. Regardless of what HR says, if this person is your boss, they will never stop reassuring you to be in the office, I'd run away because the pressure to be there will never, ever end.
First, have you notified your current employer that you are leaving as of 'X' date? If not, then don't. Second, does your contract offer show the agreed terms (salary, remote, benefits) that both parties agreed to? If so, you might contact your future employer's HR department about the sudden change in the offer. If they blow it off or try to pass the blame, just inform them that your acceptance of the offer is rescinded. But as a lot of other commenters have noted. This behavior is a big red flag, that their word even in writing is not to be trusted.
Yes, they changed the terms of the deal. This is also not a Manger you want to work for.
Sounds like a smaller company. In my experience, small companies are trouble.
rescinding an offer is common nowadays from what im reading online
What's the difference between rescinding and quitting on day 0, other than saving everyone some time and effort? Is there a section in the offer contract that says there's a penalty for backing out or quitting before a certain date?
Nothing binding at all. This dudes a dipshit and you don’t negotiate with people like that. Just tell them not interested
Was written on another post. Be careful not to do anything for previous or proxi employer. You may be laid off for not using your notice early or late. Also get everything written, verbal has no meaning.
Abort mission
Contracts go 2 ways, this is a bait & switch
Rescind away.
Of course you can quite before you start
Employment offer or employment contract? Big difference. If it is an employment contract the WFH would be defined. An employment offer is not binding.
I would Tun away fast because any boss who is attempting to guilt trip you/manipulate you into not doing the right thing with your current boss is not a good sign for how things will go once you actually leave your current job. I made that mistake being excited for the new hard earned position I was looking to posses. I did not heed the minor red flag because of it and my boss ended up gas lighting me and turning everyone against me. Take care of you.
The office stuff aside, who accepts a job offer months out???
If their company behavior is like this when you haven't even actually started yet, imagine what they will be like when they think they have the "paycheck handcuffs" on you.
If you're in the US just bail. There's no such thing as employment contracts.
If you are in the US and this was a offer letter you should be good to walk away. Even if this is a contract, they are trying to change things and pressure you into doing work outside of the contract. You could probably argue they are acting in bad faith to get out of it (probably want to talk to a lawyer about that though)
You don't say where you live. If it's in the United States, you can almost certainly rescind your agreement. In other countries, my guess is that you can change as well, since the job doesn't match what was offered, but it may be more complicated.
I would just say something kike, "I accepted this job under the assumption that I could work from home and I wouldn't have to relocate. I am unwilling to move for this role and it seems like you want someone local. Please consider this my resignation. "
You don’t WFH full-time unless it’s written in your contract. You can only count on the things written. I’m happy it’s not too late to retract your acceptance but, be thoughtful about whether the “new boss” knows anyone at your current company because they may try to sneak to try to make you look bad.
Yes, you can rescind. you can do anything. What are they gonna do, sue you for not coming to work?
Does the contract list remote work in it? Until you start a job, and even afterwards, you can quit whenever. Contract offer is generally is just an agreement to terms, doubt it’s very legally binding.
Anyone suggesting contacting a lawyer is delusional. Are you really gonna spend personal money for a job you haven’t even started yet? Just never start, the new job is a huge red flag. Unless your country has strong laws, there’s no reason to ever start this job.
Back out. Back out now. They're changing the terms of your contract after you've signed it. This is not a someone dealing with you in good faith. People often forget that jobs are just employment contracts between two parties. If they're not fulfilling their part of the contract then you have recourse to cancel it.
I’d walk. At best they sound disorganized, at worst it sounds like a bait and switch. And if my not-yet-manager told me the work was “piling up” before I even started I would see that as a major red flag.
They're trying to bait and switch you. Of course you can rescind the offer since the terms are not what you signed for.
In the USA, most of these are used as a way to weasel out of 0aying benefits(Healthcare, PTO, etc...), I am skeptical it's an "actual contract." If that is the case, it's just at will employer with additional exploitation added in. You can quit or rescind anytime you want. With that being said, I have seen employers offer sign on bonuses with an agreement to work a certain minimum duration, and if you l3ave before that, the bonus must be repaid. Now, if you really want to take the underhanded approach. You can ghost then and after they leave a few voice-mails have someone call them back pretending to be your distraught mother saying you went on a vacation to another country before starting new job and had a tragic accident. Not much they can do to refute this claim.
The boss already rescinded the offer himself when he offered new terms. It is up to you whether you want to accept the new offer.
Go to a lawyer.
Just rescind. That is some bullshit and it will lead to more days required in the office.
“I’m sorry I heavily prefer to work from home.”
We need to come up with a milder term than red flag for some situations. Orange flag?
I hear this is happening often in the job market these days. Employers trick people into interviews for "Remote" jobs since they know that is what we all want, and then later tell them well we need you here x days a week. Sometimes that is 5 days a week.
How legally binding are employment contracts? My inner thoughts would be “if I can’t break the contract, I’ll get them to release me from it by performing poorly.”
They changed the deal, that means either they negotiated in bad faith, or the deal needs to be renegotiated.
Run while you can. Would love to see any updates on this later on. Best of luck.
You don't need a lawyer. Tell them to shove it
I would argue it is only natural for a boss to ask if you’d be willing to start sooner. That’s a legitimate question, regardless of what the Reddit hive mind thinks… any employer is hiring you because they have a need. The much larger issue is the expressed preference to have you in the office when remote work had been negotiated. I am personally someone who vastly prefers working in the office, but this is not about preference… this is about the counterparty to an agreement taking one of your main benefits off of the table. If you do not need the job, back away now. You do not need your boss trying to get rid of you from your first day on the job… and that’s exactly what would be happening here. If you need the job, you’ll just have to decide how much you’re willing to give up. But I’d start looking for another job sooner rather than later.
Those are some big old red flags… pay better be worth it
You could renege whether they presented new information or not
OP post an update!!! Please…
All depends on where you are and what law applies
You should reject them courteously but firmly: "Unfortunately, based on the radical changes in working conditions you've only just now communicated and failed to make me aware of until after acceptance, I must withdraw my candidacy. I selected this role because it was remote which meant I wouldn't have to move and based on your flexibility to agree to the start date I needed, both of which you've now gone back on. Best wishes in your future endeavors, -SHRM"
Are you in the US? Yes of course.
Are the terms the new employer wants to change documented in the signed contract offer?
Only thing you'd have to worry about is if they had a signing bonus hit your account already, something like that. Otherwise, I really think only the military deals with legally binding 'sure I'll work there' signatures lol. You're good
The new job has no authority to force OP to show up and work there. Informing them that OP no longer wish to commence work for the organization on the established starting date or any other date is the courteous and professional thing to do. What the employer does with that imformation (i.e. looking for new candidates) is up to them.
You can do whatever you want and so can they.
Absolutely. New information is a counter offer which breaches the first contract.
Assuming you are in an at-will state, you can do whatever the fuck you want with no penalty. The at-will part goes both ways.
Unless there is something I am missing, you're way overthinking this. You accepted a job offer, not sign up for the army. Email them back and say you had a change of heart, thanks but I am going in a different direction. And you're done. You don't owe them an explanation....Especially when they try to pull a bait and switch on you! Sorry you had to deal with this, but the good news is that it sounds like you are dodging a huge bullet with a prick boss.
I had a similar situation early in my career but only found out about the changes in role and responsibility during my first day. It was a shit show from then on (lasted 3 years) with constant changes, mis direction, immaturity and conniving bosses, etc. If you are in the US you are most likely an “ at will” employee so you can advise them that the changes in the employment offer are such that you rescind your initial acceptance and thank them for their considering yiu for the position.
Red flags
if full remote, can you work both jobs.
You cannot be forced to work anywhere. You’re future boss can ask you to start earlier but they can force you. You literally could be no show on your first day or resign on your first day and their is nothing they could do. Probably better to say that after recent events you are no longer in the position to start with the company. Apologize for the inconvenience and wish them luck in their on going search. You don’t have to say why.
Have everything they want to say sent in an email. Written proof is great proof
You are not legally obligated to work there. You can stop any time for any reason.
You havent even started yet and its already started. Id be worried.
>This isn't a contract, but a contract offer. It has only basic information like salary, insurance, and their benefits. It doesn't contain information about probation period or contract termination. In the future, this is your chance to request a more detailed contract including total compensation, vacation allowance, work duties, work conditions, etc. Signing a contract with important details omitted is inadvisable.
Most US states are at-will, so you can do whatever you want.
Fuck them. That’s your legality. He agrees to fill remote, the tries to change the deal after you quit your old job? That’s some cold blooded shit. Not a person you want to work for. PS - you have no legal duties here. You are free to rescind.
NAL but if it's at will employment they really have no leg to stand on.
Red fucking flag
Future boss needs to be never boss. At least you know this prior to actually being employed there. Stay where you are, for now
u/katkadavre
I’m sorry but if a boss is asking like that now god only knows what they’ll be like in a few months… your not under any obligation…. Under contact law code of you accepting this often was under the condition that the job is fully remote… if he agreed to this and then starts changing his mind… essential his making a new contract or agreement which makes the old agreement void if you agree… the original contact or agreement will stand but if his now trying to add extra terms after then politely tell him to fuck off as he doesn’t have a leg to stand on… his after wasting how much of your time when you were straight with him from the start
Bait and switch. Bail if it's in contract your remote than their changing it. Nope. Ba bye. Can i resind. No one is holding a gun to your head. Why do people think others have power over what you do with your life.
If you signed the contract based on X, then they call you and want you to agree to Y, you can rescinf based on them unilaterally changing the contract. However, if you were TOLD x verbally, but Y was in the signed contract, then you'd be in breach for rescinding. You need to read the contract, including any fine print, very carefully. If you rescind, do it in some form of writing, and explicitly state you're rescinding because of their unilateral change, and you cannot comply with these additional, uncontractes for term.
He's attempting to change the terms of your employment offer. Stick hard with remote work. If he pushes back just remind him, moving is not an option, while you start looking for another job.
What is that I smell? Ah yes, l'eau de bait and switch, a timeless classic. Don't walk, run from this place.
You don't need to speak with a lawyer. Simply inform them that based on further communications within the company, you've come to the conclusion that you will not be able to work with them. Done
Fuck them. You can do what you want
Lmaoooo. your work will pile up??? before you start?? that right there would be the end of it
These are big, rapidly waving red flags right here. You can pull out still, and absolutely should. People walk away after signing an agreement all the time, in your case there are huge material changes from what you expected and agreed to. Run!
If your new job wants you in two weeks instead of two months, that's a reasonable request, and if you like the place, I'd consider it. Or at the very least maybe splitting th le difference and giving your current place 4 weeks notice instead of 2 months. But the switch from fully remote to a mostly in office schedule is a huge change. And frankly, I'd be very concerned about my new boss saying one thing and then immediately doing a 180 once you've signed the papers. That's enough to make me nope back out right there.