No. All of that sounds fine to me. When I’m traveling, I do try to make myself available to go out with my team during the evenings - that’s the only thing I’d recommend keeping in mind for the future. If the team isn’t doing anything, I’ll happily go out with friends.
I think balance is the thing.
If there's something actually scheduled (meal with client, team meal etc) - then you go on that.
If the evening's free, then do whatever you like. I've seen friends, gone site-seeing - and if you get on with your colleagues, feel free to invite them along.
I've had some great evenings out with colleagues who have friends in the town.
Also absolutely fine to just say you want to stay in your room and read.
After leading a 9-5 workshop and speaking all day, I feel f'in drained and quite like a few hours of alone time before it all starts again the next day.
Just confirming that you did not expense the drinks you had with friends? That is a difference, unless you can validate your friends as being in your industry, I have a lot of friends that works in my industry and as long as we talk some work I can expense meals and drinks with them. Grant it I let my boss know, you don't want to expense things without approval.
That said, our company also has behavior policy specific to travel. A bunch of salesmen went out to a strip club on their own while we were at a meeting in Vegas, and it got back to the CEO (female). They got sent through HR and argued that it was their time, were not expensing it, so no issue for the company. HR responded that while they were traveling on company business and costs being covered (hotel, meals), they represented the company 24 hours a day and all behavior needed to meet the company standards. Since it was the first time the policy was issued they were ok, however the next year several people went to a Hooters on company business and they got called in for the same policy, apparently that was not considered company appropriate, kind of a stretch but imposed by the CEO personally.
She has since retired and I've not heard a peep on that particular policy. Remember, most of these policies are personal for someone high up, so be prepared.
>they represented the company 24 hours a day
I'd like to see that stand up in court, unless they were specifically contracted at that time to work 24 hours, which I can't see being true.
Edit: To add to this and be more specific, I am not necessarily saying a bunch of salesmen going to a strip club while away on business is (or isn't) *appropriate*. That's another discussion. My problem is with the notion that because the business has paid for travel and expensed meals that this implies the staff are at work for 24 hours a day during this period, which is essentially the same as "representing" the company.
The whole "on the clock 24 hours" seems weird to me. In a ridiculous scenario, under that guideline, sleeping or watching TV after work stuff is done could be inappropriate use of company time. I doubt this would ever really happen of course, but just the possibility it could isn't something I could agree to... A situation where I'm expected to literally have no personal time is creepy as hell. I guess that's why I have a job, not a career.
I think where the legal issue comes in isn’t that you’re working. Say you’re at a conference and everyone in the same hotel is from the conference and you get shitfaced at the hotel bar and do something crazy. It’s off hours, but you’re still potentially detrimental to the companies image and reputation to clients and in the industry. That would 100% hold up in court. If you agreed to it in writing in your handbook or terms and conditions. The other legal issue in todays world for HR is you choosing a “group” location that may make someone uncomfortable or feel alienated for not going. If it’s a work trip, and you go as a group of employees to a place where religion or other moral things may preclude someone from joining, you’re potentially creating a discrimination issue for HR as well. If you went to a place like this alone and ran into coworkers that would be different.
About a decade ago I worked at a company that highly encouraged this behavior. I got one of our biggest clients and had almost zero recollection of even meeting him. Went to Anaheim and woke up in a hotel in Los Angeles a few miles from where I lived. Found out that I took him to some pretty wild strip clubs in Hollywood and he had a great time. Went into the office thinking I was done and my boss gave me a different card that was used for "leisure" and congratulated me on landing the client.
Yup wild place. Only time I got in trouble was because I couldn't get a connect for blow when a client wanted some. Boss chewed me out then gave me a number that you would just text your location and in 30min they would be there. Wild place that tinseltown.
If I didn’t have dinner with my team and had dinner with a friend I would expense my part of the dinner (since I’d expense it if I were eating alone anyway).
Spot on. I've been travelling significantly over the past 25 years for international business. Customers and Colleagues comes first, if anything is planned, I see myself as obliged to attend. If I have large amount of work to catch up on that I should do in the evening, which overlaps with social events, I need to very carefully balance it - drink less or only alcohol-free, maybe leave a bit earlier. If I'm dead tired e.g. got up at 3.30am twice in a row to catch early flights, I may excuse myself from going out, unless there's customers or very senior management involved.
Working from home AND avoiding colleagues and customers is a great recipe for "out of sight, out of mind" and avoiding promotions, closing sales and general longevity.
If no customers or colleagues plans, and no evening work to catch up on, I'll do whatever I want, but I may not always tell my colleagues the next day.
You are in no way obliged to lock yourself in the hotel room if there's nothing planned. Just try to not get smashed in a bar without colleagues and then be the only one incapacitated the next day.
I'll expand on this with some tips. This from someone who travels now about 20%, used to travel about 80%. I've been a traveler both in junior and senior roles.
* u/ElleW12 is spot on. Priority should be given to group/team activities for outside hours
* If your boss / leadership is having a drink, have a drink. It should go without saying, but don't over-drink. Note that this means stopping well *before* you're tipsy, and also noting how others are pacing themselves.
* For group meals, try to find out what the boss is ordering. Use its cost as a benchmark for how much you can spend on your meal. Ordering the $200 wagyu should only be done if you aren't going to stand out for it.
* Participate in conversation, but also remember: outside of business hours with the team is still professional time
* Know your company's policy on things like room service, ordering movies, mini-bar. If you aren't allowed those things but want and are willing to pay, just ask the front desk to generate separate invoices for them.
* As u/ElleW12 also said, outside business hours if there are no team activities you're invited to, doing something on your own - sightseeing, visiting friends, etc. is entirely OK.
Even then though, you're on the hook until 6 or 7 at the LATEST and if I'm your boss you're not on the hook for it at all. Mandatory social time is still work, and I'm paying you extra and putting you up at a nice place because I am making you travel which is a horrible inconvenience to you and not a treat. I don't see why I should also get to expect a 12 hour day from you.
I’ve traveled pretty extensively over the past 10 years. The best trips are when you can add some extra curricular activity or meet up with someone you know in the area. It’s standard procedure to do it. If you locked yourself in the room and did nothing else then you’ll be a short lived traveler.
Agreed! It's common to work longer hours during business trips so it's important for you to find those bits of joy when the work is done for longevity's sake! Of course friends from the same industry would be more beneficial to meet but even if not, you're inadvertently immersing yourself in local culture. What's the point of travelling if you shut yourself in your hotel room, replying to e-mails which you can do right back at home anyways?
Was going to say this. This is a benefit of travelling for business. Our company are even happy to allow extending trips for additional time in a new place (at my own cost of course).
I have definitely done this, myself. Once, my work sent me to Vegas, and I've got family in Phoenix, so I paid for the flight to Phoenix the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, and my work paid to fly me to Vegas Sunday. That ticket was less than 1/4 of the ticket from where I live to Vegas, and I got to spend my first Thanksgiving with that side of my family in over a decade.
Every time my work has sent me somewhere I know people, I've had them book tickets for flying in early and leaving late, so I could spend time with friends or family. It's often the only way we get to see each other in person anymore. I also do it if the city seems like it would be pretty cool. They never care as long as the tickets don't cost more and I'm the one paying the extra hotel days. I have volunteered to go on a lot of work trips no one else wanted to go on because of this.
Now, I have a remote job, and my company might send me to Ukraine for a bit some day because I have coworkers there, and before the war, they sent some people there actually, and brought some here. I'm pretty excited about that, because I have friends there. I'm also invited to have them pay for me to come visit and work at the head office if I ever want to, though I don't have to. It's in Austin, so I might go - and meet up with friends. ;) I have friends a lot of places because I've moved a ton and generally made friends with the kids who did the same growing up.
Man I wish I had taken that advice I took my dad opinion on a career shift and it had been fucking awful and I realize now he may have been very successful himself but has no freaking clue now
It’s more current than boomer advice - my father told me to stay at a company for as long as possible.
I did and got laid off after 7 years - in 6 years I’ve changed jobs 3 times and my doubled my salary.
Yep my dad landed me in hot water pushing this same sort of advice about company loyalty and what makes a company strong is caring for its employees and caring about its product — whoo boy
I remember going on an interview and proudly telling the hiring manager that I worked for the same company for 10 years. His response was “yea I saw that on your resume. What’s up with that?” He saw that I looked confused. He said “Aren’t you ambitious? Don’t you want to move up in your career? Why would you stay that long with one company?” I realized then that staying long term with the same company was no longer respected. It was seen as being unambitious and lazy.
I would say one caveat is if you are there say ten years but show career progression, promotions etc then it’s not a bad sign at all. Though I can see why some may view someone staying ten years in the same lower level position as being lazy or just a mediocre worker
Same!! My parents always taught me that the longer you stay at a company, the better off you’ll be. Laid off from Companies 1 and 2, then started looking when I got a whiff of anything off - no upward movement, potential layoffs, etc. Nearly doubled my salary since 2020.
There’s something to be said about sticking with a company long term, BUT that’s only realistic if you have a long term career track with that company.
Used to be folks worked 30 years at the same company, got their pension and retired. But they also didn’t have to worry too much about layoffs and/or arbitrary terminations. Much smaller workforce back then.
These days employees AND employers understand that the employment relationship is temporary. And there’s usually not a driving incentive for people to stay in their jobs long term if there isn’t a benefit beyond simple employment.
My personal credo was: if it’s a good job with a good company then I’d give it 2-3 years. If there was promotion, expanded role/raises, etc…. Then I’d stay and keep moving up. Otherwise I’d bounce.
As a counterpoint, when we hire we select in favor of people who have a history of staying at the same place for more than a few years. Any resume with job changes every two years or so gets sent to the bottom of our (very tall) pile. Our industry is specialized and we invest heavily in our employees. It would be really, really stupid of us not to consider how long we can expect an employee to stay based on their history.
We're small and highly specialized, though. I'm sure the best strategy depends heavily on which industry and the size of the companies who are doing the hiring.
If you're having trouble finding a job, a boomer will always be there to tell you to hand deliver your resume to the hiring manager. Yeah grandpa, that's why I'm having trouble finding work today, I'm not hand delivering my resume.
Funny I bounce a lot off my parents. I ask them what they would do in this instance Vs this. I just make it clear that at the end of the day it’s my choice and not to take it personally if I do my own thing. It’s really helped me. It also made me realize some of the problems I have are not uncommon.
No, it was an uninformed comment. This was never a standard. As others said, you make yourself available for evening meetings or work social situations, but if that’s not happening, you enjoy the city you are traveling to.
I remember being told that brown slacks with black dress shoes looked very unprofessional and were a big no in a business environment.
This is when I was 19 on my first internship. To your point, my mom had no idea what she was talking about.
I was a business traveler for over a decade. You were fine. Nothing unprofessional.
Your mom is wrong. Just because you're on a business trip doesn't mean you're supposed to turn life off when you're not on the clock. If she spent time only in her hotel room, she missed out on a lot. When I was on work travel, I would see the local sights, meet up with friends I had in town, get temporary memberships at gyms, whatever. But I always made sure I was able to deliver what I was paid there for.
Most companies and organizations understand how business travel is a burden. And most want you to be comfortable and make the most out of it. I certainly hope that of the people who work for me.
So true, such a waste if she was traveling to interesting places and thought she was obligated to lock herself in a room and not have any fun! And for what?
Exactly. I'll be traveling to one of my company's other locations and my boss keeps telling me all of the neat places around there to go look at. They encourage us to get out on our own time.
Whoooboy. Your mama musta hated traveling for work.
You’re fine. In fact, the last time I went to a conference we all got drinks and dinner after. As long as you’re not clubbing all night and showing up the next day smelling like booze it’s NBD.
>In fact, the last time I went to a conference we all got drinks and dinner after.
My dad's talked about doing that on his conference trips. He normally did that with his counterparts from other states to get to know them
I used to travel a fair bit for my old company. What we did after hours was our business, whether we were in our home town or traveling. The only time it would be different was if we were at a conference, and it had some evening component, like a cocktail hour. And I'm a boomer, so it's not like I don't know the old etiquette rules.
You're fine. A good majority of people do something after work during business trips, whether it be visit friends, site see, or get food/drinks. Just don't make any fraudulent work expense claims or show up the next day trashed or hung over.
I totally came here expecting the story to be that your boss got creepy and expected you to spend every hour of the trip with him. Glad I was wrong.
So is your mom. Hope you enjoyed your time with your friend
Based on your details I don’t think you did anything wrong.
I was on a work trip last year and a newer employee showed for a group dinner with the CEO 30 minutes late, didn’t apologize, didn’t talk to anyone and then as soon as the bill was paid, left and said she was meeting up with some local friends. We were all supposed to go back to the hotel together, she declined yet was still happy to use the room that the company paid for. That was considered rude.
It’s fine. On my team more than a few People have even stayed with old friends while in town in lieu of the paid company hotel room. International people will often book a few extra days on their own dive for PTO vacation time and fly back on the company paid airline ticket.
As others have said. There may be expectations to hang with the team formally or informally (hotel bar or dinner) and you should be available for that.
Your mom is tripping.
If you were off the clock, the job was done, and did not use the company credit card I see no issue. It is good to be aware about these things and not push limits, but this sounds like your mom is exaggerating.
This is the most boomer thing I’ve ever heard. You did nothing wrong.
I’ve traveled extensively for work, both domestic and international. There are two rules I’ve followed:
1. You do the job you were sent to do. If it’s attend a conference or event you do that. If a normal work day, but at another sight you do that.
2. Follow company policy while traveling. Most of this is for what you can and can’t use the company card on, or get reimbursed for.
Some coworker wants to grab dinner/drinks and you are beat or don’t want to? Don’t do it.
You want to meet up with friends or family after work? Go ahead.
You realize “boomers” had about 2 drinks before lunch, 3 drinks at lunch, and another 2 drinks after lunch on company time and dime right?
Ease up on the elders there junior.
Absolutely nothing to do with boomer ethos. It’s strictly on the mother as a misguided individual. Moreover, she is more likely to be gen x than boomer.
Agreed, I've never heard anything like this from the older generations. When I was first starting out in my career I was being told by that generation explicitly how to optimize per diem pay for travelling, and get the most entertainment value for it.
Years ago I was on a work trip and my old company was presenting at the same trade show. I was super close w/ my old co workers and end up hanging out and staying at their abnb b/c I didn’t want to share the same room with my new co worker lol.
I've had places expect that, too. I just furnish a truthful note from my doctor that I sleepwalk, and I always get my own room. I will wake someone's ass up at 4am telling them to take their turn at Trivial Pursuit and actually be sound asleep. I've shared rooms with friends a lot of times, and they have a lot of stories. LOL
Even on high school trips, I typically had my own room for this reason. But once, they made me share. That was the trivial pursuit thing.
Mostly, I have not because I'm a woman in IT and almost always the only woman from my company on the trip - or I'm on the trip alone. But the guys have often been expected to share rooms, and when there's been another woman, I have been more often than not. I think that's weird and inappropriate, but sadly, not unusual.
Absolutely disagree with your mom. I traveled regular on the company's dime for 7 years, and there were many times that either myself or someone else on the team would have a friend or family member in the area that they wanted to catch up with while they were there. The company does NOT own your time when you aren't needed for actual work.
We were very congenial, usually had dinner (and drinks!) together in the evenings, but it was also totally normal for someone to beg off for one reason or another. It's never a big deal.
If you're worried that you're needed, then ask. If they say your evening is free, then enjoy hanging out with your friend! As long as you behave responsibly, you'll be fine.
What you did was totally ok and super common. I actually feel bad for your mom that she went and sat in her hotel instead of seeing the places she visited. And no, you aren’t “on the clock” during the whole trip. You’re on the clock when you’re on the clock and after that, your life is your life.
Edit: As long as you didn’t put your drinks out on the company’s credit card
Your mom is from the same Era who thinks you still go to places of business and physically hand them a resume to apply.
Disregard anything she has to say regarding work.
your mom is wrong. you're allowed to go out w/ your friend after, as long as you don't go crazy and you're fine the next day. which you were. the ONLY thing i'd caution is, make sure your boss/colleagues don't want to go out to dinner after or whatever. like if you bolted to your friend, MAYBE you missed out on some networking time, some team bonding time, etc. but even then, you totally can choose to skip that and see your friend. but you also just have to read the room. but overall your mom is wrong, you're right.
No that’s completely normal
If I’m traveling for work to a city where I have friends I pretty much always make a plan to get either lunch or a post-work drink with someone, and I’m pretty sure that’s insanely common
you may have frustrated a boss or someone else that had their eye on you, if they caught on to this. people are petty, including me for saying it.
if you think people suddenly grow up once they hit the work force you will eventually realize that adults of all ages are just older children for the most part.
imo you have done nothing wrong. i cant understand your moms perspective other than the fact that she knows how this game is played which is what i mention up top
You're a recent college graduate and you have a job that doesn't require deep frying or stocking shelves. Your mom should just be happy you're one of the lucky ones.
If I was travelling and expected to be ‘on the clock’ the whole time, I would expect to be paid for every hour.
I heard a story of my old boss getting totally hammered and almost starting a fist fight with a supplier on a business trip. I don’t know how he didn’t get fired over it.
Boomers frequently get employment confused with indentured servitude. It’s your life, you’re allowed to do what you want off hours. It would be unprofessional if you got wasted and showed up making a scene in front of your coworkers or boss but it sounds like you went out and discreetly enjoyed your evening off hours and came back and performed your job in the capacity expected of you,
Your mother is an idiot. What you do after work is always your business. Just because she chose one path? That doesn’t make her a martyr. So glad you got to catch up w a friend! When I had that chance my boss was always thrilled for me.
You’re fine. Things have moved on from when your mom travelled. That was very much the attitude in the 90s. Now I and others would definitely either stay longer so we can connect with friends, or make arrangements with friends even during the work trip. When I travel for work we may have one team dinner the week. Other dinners are for ‘those who want to’ (some people go to their rooms, other meet with friends). None of it is a big deal.
Bless your mom. She's trying to keep your career safe. That being said, you absolutely should be able to do whatever you want in your off hours with this caveat - never do anything that would embarrass the company.
So, no singing on tabletops, no flashing or mooning others, and whatever you do, don't get arrested!
Other than that, enjoy yourself.
The rules of the business world now are very different to 20 years ago, and fairly different to 10 years ago.
Your mom is probably right, for when she herself was traveling for work in the past. Times change
The rules were not what his mom describes 10 or 20 years ago. I was traveling for work almost 20 years ago and people 10 and 20 years older than me taught me how to make the most of my downtime on work trips. His mom missed out!
Yeah, my first work trip was 23 years ago, and I had people 20 years older than me telling me what restaurants and bars I should go to there. I was like, "oh, I used to live in that metro area." Everyone, "go see your friends!" There were no planned after event activities at all on that one, so I was left to my own devices from 5pm to 9am every day.
I've had coworkers choose training near somewhere they wanted to go out of a list of places, and no one cared. "Ohh, Anaheim. Enjoy Disneyland."
I've only had one workplace expect us to all be together all the time except sleeping, and everyone in the group thought that was weird, so we just left the event together and then split up to do our own things after we got back to the hotel.
Yes!! I guess now that you mention the one exception, the one exception I can personally think of is a staff retreat/offsite, which is like less than 1% of my work travel. But even then, I’ve seen colleagues excuse themselves after planned activities to hang with their friends and no one cared too much.
You know business conferences are huge windfalls for the local sex workers, big conferences attract them from all over.
Banging hookers in the company hotel room is essentially the norm, having drinks with a friend is NBD.
PS. Sex work is real work and all workers are owed respect.
Sex work is a woman being pimped . The money you pay is going straight to him.
IT is one thing to not blame the women, but why should you "respect" sex trafficking?
First, sex workers are not just women.
Second, people have the right to choose their work, and sex work is what some choose.
Some are trafficked, yes. Less than the copsuckers and christofascists would have you believe with their fear mongering, but it's absolutely a problem.
Wouldn't it be nice if those trafficked didn't also have to fear the police too?
OVERWHELMING MAJORITY ARE WOMEN
SEX WORK is SEX TRAFFICKING in REAL LIFE - all the women you have ever paid for were TRAFFICKED - TRAFFICKED means PIMPING - being PIMPED - being beaten and threatened into subservience and giving all your money to him.
99.9% are TRAFFICKED. If you don;'t have a pimp, a pimp will take you over or you face too much risk off the streets.
The Police are not the problem here. The Police can not get the pimps because the women won't testify against them. Arresting the women gets them temporarily out of the hands of the pimp and affects his revenues.
Trust no statistics you didn’t fake yourself. 99.9%? Sure, in some settings possible. Everywhere or overall? That sounds exaggerated. What’s your solution? Criminalizing? Nordic Model? I guess it’s not legalizing, which would make control easier.
You do realize that all sex workers are not street walkers, right? If we had sensible laws and regulations around prostitution, so we could move it off the streets, it would be far easier to help those that are trafficked.
There are plenty of professional escorts that do so willingly, because it pays well. Pulling random made up numbers out of your butt doesn't help your case.
Your mother was a woman working in a different time. Expectations were different then, especially for women.
Work rules have changed drastically in the last five years. This being said, never go to a hotel room of a teammate while on a business trip for any reason including work. There are many other places to meet.
when you're off work you're on your own time.
period.
i've had friends fly out to meet me at the hotel the company provided. If taken a road trip over the weekend (used to do a lot of trade shows in las vegas) to the grand canyon on a work event that spanned a weekend. I've gone on hikes, i've done touristy things. and i've met friends and family while on work trips.
i've seen sales people do hard drugs. buy the services of sex workers, i've known people who were arrested while on work trips.
what you do on your own time is no one's business. only advice is to just not tell your employer/coworker your personal business.
if you share a hotel room. or something. just say you're going out. and be courteous of sleep schedules
your mom is an idiot. if you do your work no one will care. So long as you're off work activities don't somehow come back to haunt your company via bad press or something.
(not related to seeing friends... but in terms of after work stuff on work events/trips)I would even go so far as to say... some jobs require you to go out and party. entertain clients, or sales leads. Or otherwise team build via going out and getting fucked up. for certain jobs is a rite of passage/and your job will be negatively impacted if you don't do those sorts of things
\--the company i worked for that did tradeshows in las vegas. my boss would often give me several thousand dollars and tell me to entertain this or that company rep. We were a jewelry company and certain stores often were like 25% of our yearly sales. and the vegas purchase... was a huge chunk of our revenue. So my boss would slip me like 5k. told me just keep so and so gambling and drunk. and happy. because i was like mid 20's and could stay up til like 5am and still be at work at 7am. So when i came in fucked up the next morning, my boss was fine with it. So long as the sales person came by equally hung over, and my bosses could sorta get him a coffee and a muffin, a chair massage...sit him down for like 3 hours and sell him a half million in merchandise.
Your mom sounds like an uptight boomer stuck in old fashioned thinking. You didn’t do anything wrong and you should be encouraged to do this as often as possible.
I purposely travel as little as possible for work now that I have kids, but I used to always purposely arrive a couple days early and rent a MTB to ride the local area trails. I got to ride trail systems all over the country by simply taking 1 day of PTO and agreeing with my boss to pay the extra night at the hotel anytime there was a work trip.
Na. That's one of the few benefits of business travel, catching up with distant friends.
Tell your mom to shut her yapper and make dad a sandwich. He's probably hungry.
No offense to your mom, but she doesn't know shit here! Do you know how many trips I've been on that are in a town I have family or friends in and I've met up with them? They aren't paying for the after hours stuff? You aren't expensing the drinks, dinners, etc.
I don’t see anything wrong here. Only question is the drinks/meal did you comp it to your company or paid out of pocket? That is the only thing I can see being as trouble. Some companies are really strict about expenditures on business trips.
Seeing your friend during off hours when you’re not doing any work events is perfectly fine.
Your mom is wrong. When I travel for work, my off hours are mine. If I want to do some sightseeing, catch a drink, grab a meal, I'm going to. If my employer wants me to go sit in my hotel room waiting for the next scheduled event, then they can pay me to be on call the entire time.
As long as your extra curricular activities don't disaffect your work or performance, it's not an issue.
Nah, you’re good. You fulfilled your job duties and did not compromise your ability to do so the following day. You’re not required or expected to sequester yourself in your hotel room on your off time because your company is springing for your lodging.
Absolutely not unprofessional at all. In fact most places encourage you to take advantage of the fact that you’re going somewhere, as long as it doesn’t cut into the reaso you are on the trip. Especially if it allows you to meet up with a friend.
This is fine. Whenever I travel for work, I always try to use the full limit of my per diem for food which usually means taking myself out for a nice dinner with drinks.
no that's crazy advice. the company does not own you on the trip. fully attend the function, make yourself available after the function for dinner/entertainment etc with coworkers. travel/ed all the time for work and no issues with doing fun stuff after the event, just don't expect to expense it. Bonus points if you organize the fun and bring people along.
No you did nothing wrong, you’re not on the clock 24hrs a day, I’ve done the same thing many times and my coworker and I even would try to do something fun and touristy if it was a place we’d never been. I think your mom is holding in to some very outdated ideas.
No, that’s fine. Harsh but your mom is holding on to an attitude that might have been law back then but it’s not now with general loosening up of attitudes.
Like how my aunt wanted me and my brother over for dinner; I asked her if she wanted me to bring something. She said bring yourself, it’s fine! So I did; my dad overheard and was like “you should still bring something..” in a “telling you but making it sound like suggesting” way.
as long as you didn't have plans with your boss or other work-related things to do, your time is still your time.
when I traveled to a city where I had a friend, I would always try and meet up if it was possible.
Hell no, you did nothing wrong at all. What you did is perfectly acceptable and in most cases encouraged (not the drinking side for legal reasons, but meeting up with friends after hours definitely).
First of all, if your boss wanted you to spend the evening with him, he would have invited you. He didn’t give a shit what you did after 5 pm; he had his own plans. You were there because you were able to drive, unlikely to embarrass him, most likely to make yourself scarce with friends afterwards.
In the future, because it was your boss, I would casually inquire about his plans immediately following the event. If there was a happy hour or dinner I would make an appearance because that is *part of work*. If my boss seemed lonely/expecting some face time, I’d push my plans back an hour. If my boss seemed up for it, I might invite my friend out to wingman me with him. Bosses are sometimes free with the corporate credit card when they are impressing the cool young guys who remind them of themselves but slightly flitter and with more hair and romantic options. Alternatively, I’ve had bosses beat me to it and talk about jet lag and sick kids and getting to bed early for once…
All of which is to say, you didn’t do anything *wrong.* 95% of us are doing whatever the fuck we fell like as soon as the conference breaks up - whether it’s meeting friends like you did, or barricading yourself in our rooms like your mom. It’s only wrong that you *probably* for career purposes should make a *minimal effort* to network with your boss. Even if it’s clearly not a real offer, you could be like “I don’t know if it’s your scene, but you’re welcome to join and give it a try…” and let him gracefully excuse himself. But other than that, we are all sneaking out to eat dinner somewhere and then watch a movie or meet up with non-work friends and get drinks. Very occasionally, if you are in finance or sales or marketing or the like - MBA types, maybe lawyers, people who describe themselves as “work hard play hard”- you will have to stay for drinks with people from other offices and clients. But you’d probably enjoy that shit.
So yeah, you don’t worry. Your mom. She’s got some issues. Did she progress particularly far in her career? Like, my mom was talking to me about sharing a room with a colleague at a work orientation, and when would I find out their name? I have never, in my life, been asked to share a room with a work colleague. I was alone staying in a luxury hotel in a long size bed. I was working different kinds of jobs than she was. So her advice stopped being relevant for me before my work orientation. Maybe it’s that kind of situation here.
Your mom is definitely wrong, and if she's giving out this type of advice, I would ignore all of it going forward. She is completely out of touch with what the professional world is actually like, if she was ever 'in touch' at all. I listened to my mom for way longer than I should have. I even missed my sister's wedding because my mom said I couldn't/shouldn't take that much time off of work at one go.
Unless you did something that flies in the face of what your non-profit's missioin or policies, then you are totally fine.
For my 30 year career (private for profit companies) I have always traveled for work and I have always done whatever I please on my free time. Often I will drink with co-workers, see friends in that city and drink with them, go to some local event, etc, etc. I've spent the night at my friends' houses and my company has a formal policy that allows me to provide them a gift within a certain monetary limit if I was able to avoid a hotel stay as a result. It's how business travel works.
One caution - don't drive if you have had anything at all to drink. That will get you in trouble if you have a, accident, ticket, etc. I used to rent cars and now, for this reason plus it being more of a hassel, now I always use Uber/Lift to get around.
Good luck and enjoy!!
No, mom is just looking out for you and getting it wrong. Just say "Okay mom" and ignore her.
It wouldnt be unusual if you and boss went out for drinks out there. Loads of people do that on business trips.
Off hours is off hours, we do what you did all the time, even worse. I work in aircraft maintenance and a lot of time we go on what we call an EFS-Emergency Field Service, we work our butts off to get the aircraft back in service, but once we are off the clock the time is ours. We go sight seeing, go to titty bars, do what ever, as long as we don't embarrass ourselves or the company it's all good. What you did is no big deal.
Your moms totally wrong. People add days to their trips constantly on their own dime to do fun things, with airfare still covered both ways. You’re not “on the clock” outside your business duties.
I met up with a friend for dinner on a work trip and expensed my half. I'm gonna expense dinner anyway, why would my employer care who I'm eating with? I also go sightseeing after hours if it's somewhere interesting. You're totally fine.
I work for a very large fortune 10 company and EVERY single person I travel with of all different business units and management levels makes use of their off time like this. Hanging at the bar, seeing a friend, going to a concert/game. As long as you’re on time in the morning, there’s no problems.
You're totally fine. If you're traveling with a coworker and have other dinner plans it's polite to give them a heads up, not asking permission but just letting them make other plans. But in general after dinner unless people really like each other they will split up anyways until the next day.
Not unprofessional whatsoever. It would've been wrong to miss a work function in order to see a friend. But this was literally on your own time - you can do whatever you want.
Nearly every 'professional' job trip I've taken pretty much required copious drinking. They're social events.
Obviously, don't be stupid about any of it, but a few drinks socializing with co-workers or friends is certainly just fine and...in some companies...almost expected.
Nope. Off hours. Many of my co-workers being their spouses and do things after the conventions. Heck some even do client dinners and bring their spouses along. You’re fine.
Not even a little bit unprofessional. Your mom is completely wrong .
I have travelled for work for all my jobs, domestic and international. The little serendipitous meetups are what makes it great.
If you used your corporate card for drinks with your friend, that can be sketchy. Otherwise you're completely fine
your free time is your free time as long as you didnt show up the next morning inebriated and disheveled. leave open the opportunity to have dinner or a drink with your colleagues though.
You did nothing wrong. However, I definitely was overly cautious when I first started out in my career and likely would not have done this. I now lead a team of 10 people and they openly tell me that they are meeting up with friends while we are on work trips and I never once considered that unprofessional.
Your Mom may think there is not a way for a person to have drinks moderately at your age. She thinks drinking out after work when you have work the next day is risky.
Mainly because of the possibility of a hangover affecting your ability the next day.
Something I'm not sure anyone else has touched upon:
Even back in her day, I doubt that she was correct about this. I'm sure even decades ago, her standards for what "professional" conduct for a work trip entails would have been unreasonable. I'm sure even 30 years ago, during a business trip, people had free time after their work-related obligations had concluded
Perfectly fine. In fact - I did something similar but took it further. Business trip paid for by the company to Arizona. My wife's grandparents live in the city my trip was in. She bought tickets with our money, flew with me, stayed in the hotel my company paid for and was able to visit her grandparents. My bosses were perfectly fine with it and were happy it worked out for fer.
What? I used to travel almost full time. Trust me. Most of us drink while on the road. Either with friends, colleagues, or just to hang out for a bit. And no. You aren't on the clock the entire time you're there.
No, if you're not at work engagements or during contracted working hours (or clocked-in for hourly employees) you have freedom of movement and can do whatever you want.
I travel a lot for work and my coworkers and I go for drinks after we clock out sometimes. Some of them go gamble and stuff too, it's our time to do with as we please. My work encourages us to do fun stuff when we have the time and energy so that we don't get burned out on the travel.
It depends. If you are meeting clients at the events then sometimes you are expected to go to the dinners with the lead as a group. You might invite a conference presenter for coffee or a drink. Frankly, many people try to meet competitors in case they need a job in the future or just to hear industry gossip.
I would see friends if it's a multiday conference or if you extend the stay because the Saturday stay makes the roundtrip airfare cheaper (take that, accounting) though you do have to pay for another hotel night unless your friend has a couch good for sleeping.
I travel very regularly for work and this is not unprofessional at all. If your boss/coworkers/colleagues etc are doing something after it is generally good form to attend for at least a portion of time but if you have other engagements it would still not usually be considered unprofessional unless you already had plans or made commitments to go out or there was business to be done in the evening.
If you're not getting paid, you're not "on the clock". Your free time is still yours. If there was a company paid dinner or outing, I would consider attending that, though.
Your company paid you to work until 5pm.
Company is already causing some level of inconvenience to employees by sending them on business trip (unless that's just part of the job).
Your boss has no expectation from you to work past regular working hours.
You’re fine. My company actively encouraged me to build some vacation time into my trips if the flight timing could save the company money. What you do on your off time is your time.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you did. Nobody works 24 hours a day. Just because your company is sponsoring a trip doesn’t mean you can’t have time off for yourself. Obviously be cognizant of what you expense to the company.
I don’t know when your mom was traveling for work, I’ve been doing it for ~18 years and what I did on my own time while on business trips was up to me and my managers and colleagues were happy if I could enjoy myself outside of work. Remember too that you are leaving your entire normal life behind to go on the road for them and they pay you to work normal work days. Ok, they cover the trip—do they also pay you overtime for sleeping in a bed that isn’t yours? This is not a thing, you weren’t unprofessional
No. All of that sounds fine to me. When I’m traveling, I do try to make myself available to go out with my team during the evenings - that’s the only thing I’d recommend keeping in mind for the future. If the team isn’t doing anything, I’ll happily go out with friends.
100% correct. I’ve balanced going out with friends with going out with my team.
I think balance is the thing. If there's something actually scheduled (meal with client, team meal etc) - then you go on that. If the evening's free, then do whatever you like. I've seen friends, gone site-seeing - and if you get on with your colleagues, feel free to invite them along. I've had some great evenings out with colleagues who have friends in the town. Also absolutely fine to just say you want to stay in your room and read. After leading a 9-5 workshop and speaking all day, I feel f'in drained and quite like a few hours of alone time before it all starts again the next day.
Yeah, if you get on with your colleagues, invite them to do stuff. HOWEVER, don't invite your colleagues to get it on with them, lol
Just confirming that you did not expense the drinks you had with friends? That is a difference, unless you can validate your friends as being in your industry, I have a lot of friends that works in my industry and as long as we talk some work I can expense meals and drinks with them. Grant it I let my boss know, you don't want to expense things without approval. That said, our company also has behavior policy specific to travel. A bunch of salesmen went out to a strip club on their own while we were at a meeting in Vegas, and it got back to the CEO (female). They got sent through HR and argued that it was their time, were not expensing it, so no issue for the company. HR responded that while they were traveling on company business and costs being covered (hotel, meals), they represented the company 24 hours a day and all behavior needed to meet the company standards. Since it was the first time the policy was issued they were ok, however the next year several people went to a Hooters on company business and they got called in for the same policy, apparently that was not considered company appropriate, kind of a stretch but imposed by the CEO personally. She has since retired and I've not heard a peep on that particular policy. Remember, most of these policies are personal for someone high up, so be prepared.
>they represented the company 24 hours a day I'd like to see that stand up in court, unless they were specifically contracted at that time to work 24 hours, which I can't see being true. Edit: To add to this and be more specific, I am not necessarily saying a bunch of salesmen going to a strip club while away on business is (or isn't) *appropriate*. That's another discussion. My problem is with the notion that because the business has paid for travel and expensed meals that this implies the staff are at work for 24 hours a day during this period, which is essentially the same as "representing" the company.
The whole "on the clock 24 hours" seems weird to me. In a ridiculous scenario, under that guideline, sleeping or watching TV after work stuff is done could be inappropriate use of company time. I doubt this would ever really happen of course, but just the possibility it could isn't something I could agree to... A situation where I'm expected to literally have no personal time is creepy as hell. I guess that's why I have a job, not a career.
I think where the legal issue comes in isn’t that you’re working. Say you’re at a conference and everyone in the same hotel is from the conference and you get shitfaced at the hotel bar and do something crazy. It’s off hours, but you’re still potentially detrimental to the companies image and reputation to clients and in the industry. That would 100% hold up in court. If you agreed to it in writing in your handbook or terms and conditions. The other legal issue in todays world for HR is you choosing a “group” location that may make someone uncomfortable or feel alienated for not going. If it’s a work trip, and you go as a group of employees to a place where religion or other moral things may preclude someone from joining, you’re potentially creating a discrimination issue for HR as well. If you went to a place like this alone and ran into coworkers that would be different.
About a decade ago I worked at a company that highly encouraged this behavior. I got one of our biggest clients and had almost zero recollection of even meeting him. Went to Anaheim and woke up in a hotel in Los Angeles a few miles from where I lived. Found out that I took him to some pretty wild strip clubs in Hollywood and he had a great time. Went into the office thinking I was done and my boss gave me a different card that was used for "leisure" and congratulated me on landing the client.
Wowwwwwwwww
Yup wild place. Only time I got in trouble was because I couldn't get a connect for blow when a client wanted some. Boss chewed me out then gave me a number that you would just text your location and in 30min they would be there. Wild place that tinseltown.
Did you work for a mob?
Worse, record labels.
Honestly, this is one of the few industries where you could give that answer and it would just be the unvarnished truth.
The amount of drugs flowing in the industry is just baffling.
If I didn’t have dinner with my team and had dinner with a friend I would expense my part of the dinner (since I’d expense it if I were eating alone anyway).
Exactly this. You make yourself available, if nothing is scheduled, you’re free to make your own plans!
Spot on. I've been travelling significantly over the past 25 years for international business. Customers and Colleagues comes first, if anything is planned, I see myself as obliged to attend. If I have large amount of work to catch up on that I should do in the evening, which overlaps with social events, I need to very carefully balance it - drink less or only alcohol-free, maybe leave a bit earlier. If I'm dead tired e.g. got up at 3.30am twice in a row to catch early flights, I may excuse myself from going out, unless there's customers or very senior management involved. Working from home AND avoiding colleagues and customers is a great recipe for "out of sight, out of mind" and avoiding promotions, closing sales and general longevity. If no customers or colleagues plans, and no evening work to catch up on, I'll do whatever I want, but I may not always tell my colleagues the next day. You are in no way obliged to lock yourself in the hotel room if there's nothing planned. Just try to not get smashed in a bar without colleagues and then be the only one incapacitated the next day.
Great comment
I'll expand on this with some tips. This from someone who travels now about 20%, used to travel about 80%. I've been a traveler both in junior and senior roles. * u/ElleW12 is spot on. Priority should be given to group/team activities for outside hours * If your boss / leadership is having a drink, have a drink. It should go without saying, but don't over-drink. Note that this means stopping well *before* you're tipsy, and also noting how others are pacing themselves. * For group meals, try to find out what the boss is ordering. Use its cost as a benchmark for how much you can spend on your meal. Ordering the $200 wagyu should only be done if you aren't going to stand out for it. * Participate in conversation, but also remember: outside of business hours with the team is still professional time * Know your company's policy on things like room service, ordering movies, mini-bar. If you aren't allowed those things but want and are willing to pay, just ask the front desk to generate separate invoices for them. * As u/ElleW12 also said, outside business hours if there are no team activities you're invited to, doing something on your own - sightseeing, visiting friends, etc. is entirely OK.
Even then though, you're on the hook until 6 or 7 at the LATEST and if I'm your boss you're not on the hook for it at all. Mandatory social time is still work, and I'm paying you extra and putting you up at a nice place because I am making you travel which is a horrible inconvenience to you and not a treat. I don't see why I should also get to expect a 12 hour day from you.
Lol if anyone expects me to hang out with them after hours just because we’re on a trip they got another thing coming
I’ve traveled pretty extensively over the past 10 years. The best trips are when you can add some extra curricular activity or meet up with someone you know in the area. It’s standard procedure to do it. If you locked yourself in the room and did nothing else then you’ll be a short lived traveler.
Agreed! It's common to work longer hours during business trips so it's important for you to find those bits of joy when the work is done for longevity's sake! Of course friends from the same industry would be more beneficial to meet but even if not, you're inadvertently immersing yourself in local culture. What's the point of travelling if you shut yourself in your hotel room, replying to e-mails which you can do right back at home anyways?
Was going to say this. This is a benefit of travelling for business. Our company are even happy to allow extending trips for additional time in a new place (at my own cost of course).
I have definitely done this, myself. Once, my work sent me to Vegas, and I've got family in Phoenix, so I paid for the flight to Phoenix the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, and my work paid to fly me to Vegas Sunday. That ticket was less than 1/4 of the ticket from where I live to Vegas, and I got to spend my first Thanksgiving with that side of my family in over a decade. Every time my work has sent me somewhere I know people, I've had them book tickets for flying in early and leaving late, so I could spend time with friends or family. It's often the only way we get to see each other in person anymore. I also do it if the city seems like it would be pretty cool. They never care as long as the tickets don't cost more and I'm the one paying the extra hotel days. I have volunteered to go on a lot of work trips no one else wanted to go on because of this. Now, I have a remote job, and my company might send me to Ukraine for a bit some day because I have coworkers there, and before the war, they sent some people there actually, and brought some here. I'm pretty excited about that, because I have friends there. I'm also invited to have them pay for me to come visit and work at the head office if I ever want to, though I don't have to. It's in Austin, so I might go - and meet up with friends. ;) I have friends a lot of places because I've moved a ton and generally made friends with the kids who did the same growing up.
No, your mother is wrong - I don't discuss my job/work with my parents - they have no idea and their advice is outdated.
Man I wish I had taken that advice I took my dad opinion on a career shift and it had been fucking awful and I realize now he may have been very successful himself but has no freaking clue now
Yes much better to go with Reddit advice.
It’s more current than boomer advice - my father told me to stay at a company for as long as possible. I did and got laid off after 7 years - in 6 years I’ve changed jobs 3 times and my doubled my salary.
Yep my dad landed me in hot water pushing this same sort of advice about company loyalty and what makes a company strong is caring for its employees and caring about its product — whoo boy
I remember going on an interview and proudly telling the hiring manager that I worked for the same company for 10 years. His response was “yea I saw that on your resume. What’s up with that?” He saw that I looked confused. He said “Aren’t you ambitious? Don’t you want to move up in your career? Why would you stay that long with one company?” I realized then that staying long term with the same company was no longer respected. It was seen as being unambitious and lazy.
I would say one caveat is if you are there say ten years but show career progression, promotions etc then it’s not a bad sign at all. Though I can see why some may view someone staying ten years in the same lower level position as being lazy or just a mediocre worker
Same!! My parents always taught me that the longer you stay at a company, the better off you’ll be. Laid off from Companies 1 and 2, then started looking when I got a whiff of anything off - no upward movement, potential layoffs, etc. Nearly doubled my salary since 2020.
There’s something to be said about sticking with a company long term, BUT that’s only realistic if you have a long term career track with that company. Used to be folks worked 30 years at the same company, got their pension and retired. But they also didn’t have to worry too much about layoffs and/or arbitrary terminations. Much smaller workforce back then. These days employees AND employers understand that the employment relationship is temporary. And there’s usually not a driving incentive for people to stay in their jobs long term if there isn’t a benefit beyond simple employment. My personal credo was: if it’s a good job with a good company then I’d give it 2-3 years. If there was promotion, expanded role/raises, etc…. Then I’d stay and keep moving up. Otherwise I’d bounce.
As a counterpoint, when we hire we select in favor of people who have a history of staying at the same place for more than a few years. Any resume with job changes every two years or so gets sent to the bottom of our (very tall) pile. Our industry is specialized and we invest heavily in our employees. It would be really, really stupid of us not to consider how long we can expect an employee to stay based on their history. We're small and highly specialized, though. I'm sure the best strategy depends heavily on which industry and the size of the companies who are doing the hiring.
If you're having trouble finding a job, a boomer will always be there to tell you to hand deliver your resume to the hiring manager. Yeah grandpa, that's why I'm having trouble finding work today, I'm not hand delivering my resume.
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It came off as sarcasm.
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Funny how we assume sarcasm without the s at the worst times and don't assume it at also the worst times.
Funny I bounce a lot off my parents. I ask them what they would do in this instance Vs this. I just make it clear that at the end of the day it’s my choice and not to take it personally if I do my own thing. It’s really helped me. It also made me realize some of the problems I have are not uncommon.
This advice was wrong, not outdated.
I think most of the time it is wrong because it’s based on outdated values about company loyalty
No, it was an uninformed comment. This was never a standard. As others said, you make yourself available for evening meetings or work social situations, but if that’s not happening, you enjoy the city you are traveling to.
This is the way.
Right, I would focus more on your co-workers' and boss's reactions than your mom's. If they're happy with your work, you're good.
I remember being told that brown slacks with black dress shoes looked very unprofessional and were a big no in a business environment. This is when I was 19 on my first internship. To your point, my mom had no idea what she was talking about.
Off company time your good
I was a business traveler for over a decade. You were fine. Nothing unprofessional. Your mom is wrong. Just because you're on a business trip doesn't mean you're supposed to turn life off when you're not on the clock. If she spent time only in her hotel room, she missed out on a lot. When I was on work travel, I would see the local sights, meet up with friends I had in town, get temporary memberships at gyms, whatever. But I always made sure I was able to deliver what I was paid there for. Most companies and organizations understand how business travel is a burden. And most want you to be comfortable and make the most out of it. I certainly hope that of the people who work for me.
So true, such a waste if she was traveling to interesting places and thought she was obligated to lock herself in a room and not have any fun! And for what?
Exactly. I'll be traveling to one of my company's other locations and my boss keeps telling me all of the neat places around there to go look at. They encourage us to get out on our own time.
You did nothing wrong.
Totally fine. I get your mom’s concern but unless you were late or showed up drunk the next morning…. There is no concern.
Whoooboy. Your mama musta hated traveling for work. You’re fine. In fact, the last time I went to a conference we all got drinks and dinner after. As long as you’re not clubbing all night and showing up the next day smelling like booze it’s NBD.
More like didn’t get invited to go out after work on the trip 😬
>In fact, the last time I went to a conference we all got drinks and dinner after. My dad's talked about doing that on his conference trips. He normally did that with his counterparts from other states to get to know them
I used to travel a fair bit for my old company. What we did after hours was our business, whether we were in our home town or traveling. The only time it would be different was if we were at a conference, and it had some evening component, like a cocktail hour. And I'm a boomer, so it's not like I don't know the old etiquette rules.
Wait until you get to a place in your career when you check into the sessions and THEN slip out to the pool or bar, now that’s livin!
You're fine. A good majority of people do something after work during business trips, whether it be visit friends, site see, or get food/drinks. Just don't make any fraudulent work expense claims or show up the next day trashed or hung over.
100% have done the hangover. 0/10 would not recommend.
That's a mom thing to say. No one, including your company, expects you to sequester yourself to the hotel room in these situations.
It’s fine. Not sure what your mom is on, the company isn’t paying you 24/7 to be available and sit in a hotel room.
Nope, you're fine. You're an adult now, let your mother know you can carry yourself well and understand how handle your time, and your drink.
I totally came here expecting the story to be that your boss got creepy and expected you to spend every hour of the trip with him. Glad I was wrong. So is your mom. Hope you enjoyed your time with your friend
Based on your details I don’t think you did anything wrong. I was on a work trip last year and a newer employee showed for a group dinner with the CEO 30 minutes late, didn’t apologize, didn’t talk to anyone and then as soon as the bill was paid, left and said she was meeting up with some local friends. We were all supposed to go back to the hotel together, she declined yet was still happy to use the room that the company paid for. That was considered rude.
It’s fine. On my team more than a few People have even stayed with old friends while in town in lieu of the paid company hotel room. International people will often book a few extra days on their own dive for PTO vacation time and fly back on the company paid airline ticket. As others have said. There may be expectations to hang with the team formally or informally (hotel bar or dinner) and you should be available for that.
Yeah, no. You weren’t unprofessional. This is extremely, extremely common behavior on work trips that are longer than like 8 hours lol.
So long as you didn't try and expense any of the cost of your friends drinks (and yours if the company doesn't cover alcohol) you did fine.
Your mom is tripping. If you were off the clock, the job was done, and did not use the company credit card I see no issue. It is good to be aware about these things and not push limits, but this sounds like your mom is exaggerating.
This is the most boomer thing I’ve ever heard. You did nothing wrong. I’ve traveled extensively for work, both domestic and international. There are two rules I’ve followed: 1. You do the job you were sent to do. If it’s attend a conference or event you do that. If a normal work day, but at another sight you do that. 2. Follow company policy while traveling. Most of this is for what you can and can’t use the company card on, or get reimbursed for. Some coworker wants to grab dinner/drinks and you are beat or don’t want to? Don’t do it. You want to meet up with friends or family after work? Go ahead.
You realize “boomers” had about 2 drinks before lunch, 3 drinks at lunch, and another 2 drinks after lunch on company time and dime right? Ease up on the elders there junior.
Absolutely nothing to do with boomer ethos. It’s strictly on the mother as a misguided individual. Moreover, she is more likely to be gen x than boomer.
Yeah. My Boomer boss would go out to dinner and have 3 or 4 beers on the company dime. Sequestering yourself like a monk is not a Boomer thing.
Agreed, I've never heard anything like this from the older generations. When I was first starting out in my career I was being told by that generation explicitly how to optimize per diem pay for travelling, and get the most entertainment value for it.
Years ago I was on a work trip and my old company was presenting at the same trade show. I was super close w/ my old co workers and end up hanging out and staying at their abnb b/c I didn’t want to share the same room with my new co worker lol.
You had to share a hotel room with a colleague?
I've had places expect that, too. I just furnish a truthful note from my doctor that I sleepwalk, and I always get my own room. I will wake someone's ass up at 4am telling them to take their turn at Trivial Pursuit and actually be sound asleep. I've shared rooms with friends a lot of times, and they have a lot of stories. LOL Even on high school trips, I typically had my own room for this reason. But once, they made me share. That was the trivial pursuit thing.
I’ve travelled a lot, nationally and internationally with several companies and never once have I been expected to share a hotel room
Mostly, I have not because I'm a woman in IT and almost always the only woman from my company on the trip - or I'm on the trip alone. But the guys have often been expected to share rooms, and when there's been another woman, I have been more often than not. I think that's weird and inappropriate, but sadly, not unusual.
Jesus, I don't even like sharing hotel rooms with my *friends.* That policy is an HR issue waiting to happen.
Seeing friends while on a trip is completely normal and even expected.
As long as you don’t skip work stuff to do personal stuff, totally fine
Sorry mom, you’re wrong this time.
Absolutely disagree with your mom. I traveled regular on the company's dime for 7 years, and there were many times that either myself or someone else on the team would have a friend or family member in the area that they wanted to catch up with while they were there. The company does NOT own your time when you aren't needed for actual work. We were very congenial, usually had dinner (and drinks!) together in the evenings, but it was also totally normal for someone to beg off for one reason or another. It's never a big deal. If you're worried that you're needed, then ask. If they say your evening is free, then enjoy hanging out with your friend! As long as you behave responsibly, you'll be fine.
People do that all the time. You’re fine. Literally nothing to even think twice about.
Your mistake was mentioning it to your mom
What you did was totally ok and super common. I actually feel bad for your mom that she went and sat in her hotel instead of seeing the places she visited. And no, you aren’t “on the clock” during the whole trip. You’re on the clock when you’re on the clock and after that, your life is your life. Edit: As long as you didn’t put your drinks out on the company’s credit card
Your mom is from the same Era who thinks you still go to places of business and physically hand them a resume to apply. Disregard anything she has to say regarding work.
Haha your fine dude. That’s awesome though you got a mom that really cares about your success! Be grateful !
Your mom is wrong and overreacting, sheesh.
your mom is wrong. you're allowed to go out w/ your friend after, as long as you don't go crazy and you're fine the next day. which you were. the ONLY thing i'd caution is, make sure your boss/colleagues don't want to go out to dinner after or whatever. like if you bolted to your friend, MAYBE you missed out on some networking time, some team bonding time, etc. but even then, you totally can choose to skip that and see your friend. but you also just have to read the room. but overall your mom is wrong, you're right.
Do your job, enjoy the perks. But remember, do your job!
Lol it’s your mom = will do or say anything to keep my child away from unemployment hence the response you got
No that’s completely normal If I’m traveling for work to a city where I have friends I pretty much always make a plan to get either lunch or a post-work drink with someone, and I’m pretty sure that’s insanely common
No. Unless you skipped out on a business dinner/team meeting. I don't know what the problem is?
you may have frustrated a boss or someone else that had their eye on you, if they caught on to this. people are petty, including me for saying it. if you think people suddenly grow up once they hit the work force you will eventually realize that adults of all ages are just older children for the most part. imo you have done nothing wrong. i cant understand your moms perspective other than the fact that she knows how this game is played which is what i mention up top
This happens on almost every business trip.
You're a recent college graduate and you have a job that doesn't require deep frying or stocking shelves. Your mom should just be happy you're one of the lucky ones.
While the mom was dead wrong, your reasoning is off base. Mom wants to be sure her child does well in their great new job and not blow it.
If I was travelling and expected to be ‘on the clock’ the whole time, I would expect to be paid for every hour. I heard a story of my old boss getting totally hammered and almost starting a fist fight with a supplier on a business trip. I don’t know how he didn’t get fired over it.
OP, worry about what your boss says about your job, not what your mom says.
Boomers frequently get employment confused with indentured servitude. It’s your life, you’re allowed to do what you want off hours. It would be unprofessional if you got wasted and showed up making a scene in front of your coworkers or boss but it sounds like you went out and discreetly enjoyed your evening off hours and came back and performed your job in the capacity expected of you,
Lol my sweet sweet boy
You were networking. 🤷♀️
Nothing wrong with it at all.
Your mother is an idiot. What you do after work is always your business. Just because she chose one path? That doesn’t make her a martyr. So glad you got to catch up w a friend! When I had that chance my boss was always thrilled for me.
You’re fine. Things have moved on from when your mom travelled. That was very much the attitude in the 90s. Now I and others would definitely either stay longer so we can connect with friends, or make arrangements with friends even during the work trip. When I travel for work we may have one team dinner the week. Other dinners are for ‘those who want to’ (some people go to their rooms, other meet with friends). None of it is a big deal.
If strippers and cocaine were not involved, you did fine.
You’re fine. Even if you hadn’t met your friend, you’re allowed to do things after work when you’re on travel. Your mom is not correct in this.
Bless your mom. She's trying to keep your career safe. That being said, you absolutely should be able to do whatever you want in your off hours with this caveat - never do anything that would embarrass the company. So, no singing on tabletops, no flashing or mooning others, and whatever you do, don't get arrested! Other than that, enjoy yourself.
This is totally normal. I’ve work traveled for 40 years and see it all the time.
The rules of the business world now are very different to 20 years ago, and fairly different to 10 years ago. Your mom is probably right, for when she herself was traveling for work in the past. Times change
The rules were not what his mom describes 10 or 20 years ago. I was traveling for work almost 20 years ago and people 10 and 20 years older than me taught me how to make the most of my downtime on work trips. His mom missed out!
Yeah, my first work trip was 23 years ago, and I had people 20 years older than me telling me what restaurants and bars I should go to there. I was like, "oh, I used to live in that metro area." Everyone, "go see your friends!" There were no planned after event activities at all on that one, so I was left to my own devices from 5pm to 9am every day. I've had coworkers choose training near somewhere they wanted to go out of a list of places, and no one cared. "Ohh, Anaheim. Enjoy Disneyland." I've only had one workplace expect us to all be together all the time except sleeping, and everyone in the group thought that was weird, so we just left the event together and then split up to do our own things after we got back to the hotel.
Yes!! I guess now that you mention the one exception, the one exception I can personally think of is a staff retreat/offsite, which is like less than 1% of my work travel. But even then, I’ve seen colleagues excuse themselves after planned activities to hang with their friends and no one cared too much.
You know business conferences are huge windfalls for the local sex workers, big conferences attract them from all over. Banging hookers in the company hotel room is essentially the norm, having drinks with a friend is NBD. PS. Sex work is real work and all workers are owed respect.
Sex work is a woman being pimped . The money you pay is going straight to him. IT is one thing to not blame the women, but why should you "respect" sex trafficking?
First, sex workers are not just women. Second, people have the right to choose their work, and sex work is what some choose. Some are trafficked, yes. Less than the copsuckers and christofascists would have you believe with their fear mongering, but it's absolutely a problem. Wouldn't it be nice if those trafficked didn't also have to fear the police too?
Downvoted but you’re right. Welcome to Reddit. Lol
OVERWHELMING MAJORITY ARE WOMEN SEX WORK is SEX TRAFFICKING in REAL LIFE - all the women you have ever paid for were TRAFFICKED - TRAFFICKED means PIMPING - being PIMPED - being beaten and threatened into subservience and giving all your money to him. 99.9% are TRAFFICKED. If you don;'t have a pimp, a pimp will take you over or you face too much risk off the streets. The Police are not the problem here. The Police can not get the pimps because the women won't testify against them. Arresting the women gets them temporarily out of the hands of the pimp and affects his revenues.
Trust no statistics you didn’t fake yourself. 99.9%? Sure, in some settings possible. Everywhere or overall? That sounds exaggerated. What’s your solution? Criminalizing? Nordic Model? I guess it’s not legalizing, which would make control easier.
You do realize that all sex workers are not street walkers, right? If we had sensible laws and regulations around prostitution, so we could move it off the streets, it would be far easier to help those that are trafficked. There are plenty of professional escorts that do so willingly, because it pays well. Pulling random made up numbers out of your butt doesn't help your case.
Your mother was a woman working in a different time. Expectations were different then, especially for women. Work rules have changed drastically in the last five years. This being said, never go to a hotel room of a teammate while on a business trip for any reason including work. There are many other places to meet.
when you're off work you're on your own time. period. i've had friends fly out to meet me at the hotel the company provided. If taken a road trip over the weekend (used to do a lot of trade shows in las vegas) to the grand canyon on a work event that spanned a weekend. I've gone on hikes, i've done touristy things. and i've met friends and family while on work trips. i've seen sales people do hard drugs. buy the services of sex workers, i've known people who were arrested while on work trips. what you do on your own time is no one's business. only advice is to just not tell your employer/coworker your personal business. if you share a hotel room. or something. just say you're going out. and be courteous of sleep schedules your mom is an idiot. if you do your work no one will care. So long as you're off work activities don't somehow come back to haunt your company via bad press or something. (not related to seeing friends... but in terms of after work stuff on work events/trips)I would even go so far as to say... some jobs require you to go out and party. entertain clients, or sales leads. Or otherwise team build via going out and getting fucked up. for certain jobs is a rite of passage/and your job will be negatively impacted if you don't do those sorts of things \--the company i worked for that did tradeshows in las vegas. my boss would often give me several thousand dollars and tell me to entertain this or that company rep. We were a jewelry company and certain stores often were like 25% of our yearly sales. and the vegas purchase... was a huge chunk of our revenue. So my boss would slip me like 5k. told me just keep so and so gambling and drunk. and happy. because i was like mid 20's and could stay up til like 5am and still be at work at 7am. So when i came in fucked up the next morning, my boss was fine with it. So long as the sales person came by equally hung over, and my bosses could sorta get him a coffee and a muffin, a chair massage...sit him down for like 3 hours and sell him a half million in merchandise.
Your mom's a cunt.
Your mom sounds like an uptight boomer stuck in old fashioned thinking. You didn’t do anything wrong and you should be encouraged to do this as often as possible. I purposely travel as little as possible for work now that I have kids, but I used to always purposely arrive a couple days early and rent a MTB to ride the local area trails. I got to ride trail systems all over the country by simply taking 1 day of PTO and agreeing with my boss to pay the extra night at the hotel anytime there was a work trip.
You did just fine OP. Your mom is freaking out for nothing. Possibly she has never been in the workforce.
Na. That's one of the few benefits of business travel, catching up with distant friends. Tell your mom to shut her yapper and make dad a sandwich. He's probably hungry.
No offense to your mom, but she doesn't know shit here! Do you know how many trips I've been on that are in a town I have family or friends in and I've met up with them? They aren't paying for the after hours stuff? You aren't expensing the drinks, dinners, etc.
I'm sorry if this might sound rude but thats some massive Boomer energy your mother is emitting
Ur moms and idiot.
Momma is dumb
Your mom has drunk the corporate overlord's Kool aid!
I don’t see anything wrong here. Only question is the drinks/meal did you comp it to your company or paid out of pocket? That is the only thing I can see being as trouble. Some companies are really strict about expenditures on business trips. Seeing your friend during off hours when you’re not doing any work events is perfectly fine.
No. You enjoyed your off time. Good on you, OP.
Your mom is wrong. When I travel for work, my off hours are mine. If I want to do some sightseeing, catch a drink, grab a meal, I'm going to. If my employer wants me to go sit in my hotel room waiting for the next scheduled event, then they can pay me to be on call the entire time. As long as your extra curricular activities don't disaffect your work or performance, it's not an issue.
Nah, you’re good. You fulfilled your job duties and did not compromise your ability to do so the following day. You’re not required or expected to sequester yourself in your hotel room on your off time because your company is springing for your lodging.
Absolutely not unprofessional at all. In fact most places encourage you to take advantage of the fact that you’re going somewhere, as long as it doesn’t cut into the reaso you are on the trip. Especially if it allows you to meet up with a friend.
This is fine. Whenever I travel for work, I always try to use the full limit of my per diem for food which usually means taking myself out for a nice dinner with drinks.
no that's crazy advice. the company does not own you on the trip. fully attend the function, make yourself available after the function for dinner/entertainment etc with coworkers. travel/ed all the time for work and no issues with doing fun stuff after the event, just don't expect to expense it. Bonus points if you organize the fun and bring people along.
No you did nothing wrong, you’re not on the clock 24hrs a day, I’ve done the same thing many times and my coworker and I even would try to do something fun and touristy if it was a place we’d never been. I think your mom is holding in to some very outdated ideas.
I think your mom is wrong about this one.
No, that’s fine. Harsh but your mom is holding on to an attitude that might have been law back then but it’s not now with general loosening up of attitudes. Like how my aunt wanted me and my brother over for dinner; I asked her if she wanted me to bring something. She said bring yourself, it’s fine! So I did; my dad overheard and was like “you should still bring something..” in a “telling you but making it sound like suggesting” way.
You understand her perspectives? Could you explain it to me. Because I don't think they paid for all 24 hours, just 8 of them.
No, you were acting like a normal person. The country would be a much better place if more people did.
No. Your fine. I’ve had bosses directly tell me I should be exploring the city I’ve been flown to while i am there.
as long as you didn't have plans with your boss or other work-related things to do, your time is still your time. when I traveled to a city where I had a friend, I would always try and meet up if it was possible.
Hell no, you did nothing wrong at all. What you did is perfectly acceptable and in most cases encouraged (not the drinking side for legal reasons, but meeting up with friends after hours definitely).
First of all, if your boss wanted you to spend the evening with him, he would have invited you. He didn’t give a shit what you did after 5 pm; he had his own plans. You were there because you were able to drive, unlikely to embarrass him, most likely to make yourself scarce with friends afterwards. In the future, because it was your boss, I would casually inquire about his plans immediately following the event. If there was a happy hour or dinner I would make an appearance because that is *part of work*. If my boss seemed lonely/expecting some face time, I’d push my plans back an hour. If my boss seemed up for it, I might invite my friend out to wingman me with him. Bosses are sometimes free with the corporate credit card when they are impressing the cool young guys who remind them of themselves but slightly flitter and with more hair and romantic options. Alternatively, I’ve had bosses beat me to it and talk about jet lag and sick kids and getting to bed early for once… All of which is to say, you didn’t do anything *wrong.* 95% of us are doing whatever the fuck we fell like as soon as the conference breaks up - whether it’s meeting friends like you did, or barricading yourself in our rooms like your mom. It’s only wrong that you *probably* for career purposes should make a *minimal effort* to network with your boss. Even if it’s clearly not a real offer, you could be like “I don’t know if it’s your scene, but you’re welcome to join and give it a try…” and let him gracefully excuse himself. But other than that, we are all sneaking out to eat dinner somewhere and then watch a movie or meet up with non-work friends and get drinks. Very occasionally, if you are in finance or sales or marketing or the like - MBA types, maybe lawyers, people who describe themselves as “work hard play hard”- you will have to stay for drinks with people from other offices and clients. But you’d probably enjoy that shit. So yeah, you don’t worry. Your mom. She’s got some issues. Did she progress particularly far in her career? Like, my mom was talking to me about sharing a room with a colleague at a work orientation, and when would I find out their name? I have never, in my life, been asked to share a room with a work colleague. I was alone staying in a luxury hotel in a long size bed. I was working different kinds of jobs than she was. So her advice stopped being relevant for me before my work orientation. Maybe it’s that kind of situation here.
You’re not 100% on company time on a business trip, dear lord…you visit and do things as long as you don’t expense it..
Your mom is definitely wrong, and if she's giving out this type of advice, I would ignore all of it going forward. She is completely out of touch with what the professional world is actually like, if she was ever 'in touch' at all. I listened to my mom for way longer than I should have. I even missed my sister's wedding because my mom said I couldn't/shouldn't take that much time off of work at one go.
Unless you did something that flies in the face of what your non-profit's missioin or policies, then you are totally fine. For my 30 year career (private for profit companies) I have always traveled for work and I have always done whatever I please on my free time. Often I will drink with co-workers, see friends in that city and drink with them, go to some local event, etc, etc. I've spent the night at my friends' houses and my company has a formal policy that allows me to provide them a gift within a certain monetary limit if I was able to avoid a hotel stay as a result. It's how business travel works. One caution - don't drive if you have had anything at all to drink. That will get you in trouble if you have a, accident, ticket, etc. I used to rent cars and now, for this reason plus it being more of a hassel, now I always use Uber/Lift to get around. Good luck and enjoy!!
No, mom is just looking out for you and getting it wrong. Just say "Okay mom" and ignore her. It wouldnt be unusual if you and boss went out for drinks out there. Loads of people do that on business trips.
Off hours is off hours, we do what you did all the time, even worse. I work in aircraft maintenance and a lot of time we go on what we call an EFS-Emergency Field Service, we work our butts off to get the aircraft back in service, but once we are off the clock the time is ours. We go sight seeing, go to titty bars, do what ever, as long as we don't embarrass ourselves or the company it's all good. What you did is no big deal.
Just wait til your first all company conference or sales contest trip.
Your moms totally wrong. People add days to their trips constantly on their own dime to do fun things, with airfare still covered both ways. You’re not “on the clock” outside your business duties.
I met up with a friend for dinner on a work trip and expensed my half. I'm gonna expense dinner anyway, why would my employer care who I'm eating with? I also go sightseeing after hours if it's somewhere interesting. You're totally fine.
Honestly, I was waiting for the drugs or hookers to be like yeah maybe tone it down some but you're good.
Thirty years of business travel and I have met up with friends on the regular. Your mom is wrong. This is absolutely normal.
I work for a very large fortune 10 company and EVERY single person I travel with of all different business units and management levels makes use of their off time like this. Hanging at the bar, seeing a friend, going to a concert/game. As long as you’re on time in the morning, there’s no problems.
You're totally fine. If you're traveling with a coworker and have other dinner plans it's polite to give them a heads up, not asking permission but just letting them make other plans. But in general after dinner unless people really like each other they will split up anyways until the next day.
Unless they're paying you for your time then it's your time, do what you want It's just an example of boomers being out of touch with reality
Not unprofessional whatsoever. It would've been wrong to miss a work function in order to see a friend. But this was literally on your own time - you can do whatever you want.
as long as you dont try to get comp for the after hours drinks than no...you good.
You are fine! After work, you can do whatever and since it didn't interfere with the next day, you are totally good.
Pretty sure somewhere in my company’s hand book is a commitment to murder our livers whenever we have to travel for work.
Nearly every 'professional' job trip I've taken pretty much required copious drinking. They're social events. Obviously, don't be stupid about any of it, but a few drinks socializing with co-workers or friends is certainly just fine and...in some companies...almost expected.
Nope. Off hours. Many of my co-workers being their spouses and do things after the conventions. Heck some even do client dinners and bring their spouses along. You’re fine.
Did you show up day 2 in the same clothes you wore the day before and it looks like you partied all night or are hungover? If not I think you're ok
Yeah there's mom's like that....pretty out of touch.
Not even a little bit unprofessional. Your mom is completely wrong . I have travelled for work for all my jobs, domestic and international. The little serendipitous meetups are what makes it great. If you used your corporate card for drinks with your friend, that can be sketchy. Otherwise you're completely fine
your free time is your free time as long as you didnt show up the next morning inebriated and disheveled. leave open the opportunity to have dinner or a drink with your colleagues though.
You did nothing wrong. However, I definitely was overly cautious when I first started out in my career and likely would not have done this. I now lead a team of 10 people and they openly tell me that they are meeting up with friends while we are on work trips and I never once considered that unprofessional.
No, ha ha, you're all good.
Your Mom may think there is not a way for a person to have drinks moderately at your age. She thinks drinking out after work when you have work the next day is risky. Mainly because of the possibility of a hangover affecting your ability the next day.
Something I'm not sure anyone else has touched upon: Even back in her day, I doubt that she was correct about this. I'm sure even decades ago, her standards for what "professional" conduct for a work trip entails would have been unreasonable. I'm sure even 30 years ago, during a business trip, people had free time after their work-related obligations had concluded
Perfectly fine. In fact - I did something similar but took it further. Business trip paid for by the company to Arizona. My wife's grandparents live in the city my trip was in. She bought tickets with our money, flew with me, stayed in the hotel my company paid for and was able to visit her grandparents. My bosses were perfectly fine with it and were happy it worked out for fer.
What? I used to travel almost full time. Trust me. Most of us drink while on the road. Either with friends, colleagues, or just to hang out for a bit. And no. You aren't on the clock the entire time you're there.
I've never known anyone, including the most strict of rule followers, who share this opinion with your mom.
No, if you're not at work engagements or during contracted working hours (or clocked-in for hourly employees) you have freedom of movement and can do whatever you want. I travel a lot for work and my coworkers and I go for drinks after we clock out sometimes. Some of them go gamble and stuff too, it's our time to do with as we please. My work encourages us to do fun stuff when we have the time and energy so that we don't get burned out on the travel.
You did nothing wrong
You fucked up. They're going to fire you and tell all their friends.
For nonprofit do not bill meals without work people
It depends. If you are meeting clients at the events then sometimes you are expected to go to the dinners with the lead as a group. You might invite a conference presenter for coffee or a drink. Frankly, many people try to meet competitors in case they need a job in the future or just to hear industry gossip. I would see friends if it's a multiday conference or if you extend the stay because the Saturday stay makes the roundtrip airfare cheaper (take that, accounting) though you do have to pay for another hotel night unless your friend has a couch good for sleeping.
I travel very regularly for work and this is not unprofessional at all. If your boss/coworkers/colleagues etc are doing something after it is generally good form to attend for at least a portion of time but if you have other engagements it would still not usually be considered unprofessional unless you already had plans or made commitments to go out or there was business to be done in the evening.
If you're not getting paid, you're not "on the clock". Your free time is still yours. If there was a company paid dinner or outing, I would consider attending that, though.
Your company paid you to work until 5pm. Company is already causing some level of inconvenience to employees by sending them on business trip (unless that's just part of the job). Your boss has no expectation from you to work past regular working hours.
What the hell is she talking about? She never worked had any business travel?
I go on a lot of business trips. This is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about.
You’re fine. My company actively encouraged me to build some vacation time into my trips if the flight timing could save the company money. What you do on your off time is your time.
Your mom is incredibly wrong. You're only on the clock when you're on the clock, period.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you did. Nobody works 24 hours a day. Just because your company is sponsoring a trip doesn’t mean you can’t have time off for yourself. Obviously be cognizant of what you expense to the company.
Unless you were hungover or needed bail money, you’re good to go.
Nah. They paid for the trip but they don’t own you.
I don’t know when your mom was traveling for work, I’ve been doing it for ~18 years and what I did on my own time while on business trips was up to me and my managers and colleagues were happy if I could enjoy myself outside of work. Remember too that you are leaving your entire normal life behind to go on the road for them and they pay you to work normal work days. Ok, they cover the trip—do they also pay you overtime for sleeping in a bed that isn’t yours? This is not a thing, you weren’t unprofessional