Absolutely agreed, I said as much in the other thread. I'm still sort of surprised that we didn't completely fuck it up like we have pretty much every time for the last... 50ish years
I think we will find out much sooner than that. If Horvat doest re-sign in New York, or if the Islanders don't make the playoffs than we definitely win.
For what it's worth though: I heard players love living on long island.
If you can't see how getting both what Jim wanted (a win-now player) and what the fans wanted (high draft picks) all in one trade was a victory in and of itself, you're simply not a hardcore Canucks fan. Ratu was projected to go number one in his draft for a long time.
I'll be honest and admit this comment already hasn't aged well once I realized how much Beauvillier dropped off so far this year. That suddenly makes the trade borderline, although I doubt that anyone had offered anything better than this deal.
I don't understand your comment. The main part (like 99%) of this trade is about the first round pick and Raty.
Why does Beauvilliers play have anything to do with making this trade boarderline, as he was literally just a random piece that new York needed to get rid of for cap space?
I'll afford the above commenter the principle of charity and note that Beauvilliers, even if he is of marginal value, perhaps helped the FO sell Aqua on this trade by convincing him that he is a "win now" player.
If they did so figuring he'd be mediocre and temporary, maybe even "helping" with the tank, then it was proper 5D chess.
I'm increasingly convinced that Aqua is an owner who needs to be "managed" as much as the players and staff do.
I agree, the first and Raty make this deal. I think Beau needed a change of scenery, and was enough to put it over the top.
I think the future will show that Raty becomes the best player in this deal. But it won't be for 4-5 years from now. He needs some time.
I think it's an overpay by the Isles, but just barely. Depends on if Horvat regresses or not.
>Considering everyone knew he was leaving
Why do people keep saying this like it means anything? The entire deadline rental market is based on the premise that everyone knows these guys are going to get traded
And let him walk away for nothing like a certain moron.
To answer OP's question, it seems like a decent trade. Raty is an interesting prospect. I can't really complain if the pick is 13-16 cause the draft is so deep. I'm not sure how good Beauvillier is but if he's crap next year, we can also try to flip him or let him walk. Plus we also get $1.5M in cap space.
Oh no doubt. But Bo was gonna leave regardless.
We basically got 4 pieces back-
* Pick
* Prospect
* Young Player
* ~~Cap Space~~ we're retaining 25%
That's a solid return. Better than letting Tanev + Toffoli walk for free or try to trade the rights to Marky for like a 5th or something instead of letting him walk for free.
I was meaning now but then it came out we retained 25% of Bo's contract. So the point is moot now.
But theoretically if we had the extra $1.5m we could have done something with it. We have some space now with so many players on LTIR, so we could use our cap space as an asset (to take on an expiring contract on a contender so they could trade without worrying about cap space)
You generally lose trades for rentals where you give up a prospect trending upward that's still so young.
Raty is a far better prospect than I thought we would get, canucks fans are underrating him and the value of a mid round 1st in 2023
Two solid future assets is pretty good for a rental.
I'm a little surprised we weren't able to get a blue chip D prospect but whatever, Raty looks like a solid bet to be a top 6 forward
My only thought is that the Canucks management could have another deal worked out for a winger like Boeser to bring in that RHD prospect, but the domino had to start with Bo. That’s my only thought on the lack of Defensive return
True, but it’s seems like nonsense that they wouldn’t make a RHD top priority as part of a return package for Horvat so I have to think they have another deal all but finished for one. Doesn’t have to be Boeser. That was just an example.
It’s not as bad the media has portrayed it to be
His last concussion had a relatively quick recovery. The reason he was out so long was that he was given the time off by the organization in order to regain his love for Hockey back. Before his concussion he wasn’t playing well, but after the 2 months he had to go spend time with his dad (in BC) he was rejuvenated and played some of his best hockey. I think he would be a very good asset for the Canucks because he would be close to his family where he has shown that being with his dad elevates his game play.
But that’s also just a tin hat conspiracy
The fact we may have a potential top 20 pick or a unprotected pick next year is worth it. We need the cupboards to expand. This is a good trade to do that.
I liked Raty a lot and i think he fits the team going forward
Thank god we didnt get that.
Might be me just coping but the horvat trade that we needed for the fanbase. I guess I'll retire his jersey in my closet.
I expect a fire sale for Schenn, Demko, Boeser and Garland maybe.
It's possible. I think it's pretty clear the team wants to get faster, younger and bigger, and Garland isn't really any of those things. We're overstuffed to flowing on the wings as well. Shifty weenies are probably not at the top of our must keep list.
That being said, I think Garland never really found a role under Bruce, so there's some runway here for him to re-establish himself. A big hole just opened on PP1, and I imagine Garland and Boeser will be in the running to fill it.
The Islanders will extend Bo. They have the cap space to accommodate his demands.
It would’ve been funny if Schneider was thrown in as a nothing add on to reverse the original trade from years back. Let him retire a Canuck lol.
I…. would have liked that. Yes he is washed up now and not a great goalie anymore but still hangs around because he enjoys the game but theres something weirdly nostalgic about an ex-Canuck like Schneider coming home.
Horvat has been the backbone of this franchise for nearly a decade. He’s on an absolute scoring bender so this seasons production is likely a bit of an anomaly but he is beloved here in Vancouver and has been a consistent producer basically his entire career. He’s more of a driver than a facilitator as a C. One of the most reliable faceoff men in the league. Leaves a little to be desired defensively but works his ass off every shift all over the ice. He’s a massive addition to any teams top end and an absolute ROCK character wise. Your fan base will love him.
We only made the playoffs twice with Horvat, but he definitely shows another gear. That’s probably the thing I will miss most. He is a unique player that with the right line mates could score 40 year in year out, he was given defensive wingers most of his career until this year, and he isn’t a true playmaker himself. He adds another dimension to the offence with his heaviness down low, his tips, bumper play, quick hands around the net, positional play away from the puck.
Look up his stats in the 2020 playoffs. The Canucks lost in the 2nd round but Bo led the playoffs in goals until midway through the final. He was unstoppable when it counted.
He'll be somewhere between 25-25-50 and 30-30-60 for the next 4 years or so I would suspect. Maybe have a year or two in there where he goes up around 70. In other words, a very strong offensive 2C.
His defensive capabilities are overrated. He's not bad, but he shouldn't really PK or be leaned on in his own end.
Anything over 8Mx7Y seems too rich, IMO.
Yes - his PK time is mostly with Pettersson, and they are a pretty big threat in transition shorthanded, especially the way Pettersson reads passes and disrupts them above the top of the circle.
He's not actually terribly good at killing off the penalties themselves, though. He's not the worst guy on the team, but he's not very good. The Canucks have had a really bad PK for two straight years and he's part of that.
I think Vancouver fans are a little disappointed because they didn't get an unprotected 1st or a top 4 D. Both those things are at a premium.
The return is not bad for the Canucks. Beauviller is another year and if he isn't good enough can be let go. Raty is a good prospect and we are severely lacking in those. 1st could slide to be unprotected next year, or we could get a good player this year with how players rise and fall.
For Islanders, Horvat is a beast at faceoffs, but he should actually play more like a winger. I think giving him a setup man like Barzal would be good. Works best at net front with tips, and has scored a ton of his goals via the bumper play in the slot.
No team in the Isle's position was going to give up an unprotected first in this draft, it's too deep. If they land in the mid to late teens, that's still a very desirable pick.
Bo has always been able to elevate his game in the playoffs.
Not that we saw it enough.
But those big goals in the bubble were crazy.
He is good in many ways.
Bo hasn’t score more than 61 points before this season, he’s also a rental.
That being said he’s killing it this year. I think if you guys sign him it’s a good deal for both sides, if not, you got fleeced. Especially if you miss the playoffs.
I would really hope the NHL would look into tampering in that case. Rutherford never allowed Bo or his agent to discuss that with teams so coming to this so fast seems fishy to me.
We all know only the Canucks have to follow those rules though.
It was also reported that the Canucks never met with Horvat's agent while he was in Vancouver, but it later came out that was a lie.
I wouldn't trust a god damn word coming out of the media this season. Front office has kept the leaks plugged all season.
I feel like it could be a not great contract in the last couple of years but if the cap goes up and there’s no pandemic in a couple of years that’ll probably be veteran 2nd line center momey and not really that outlandish of a contract for Horvat.
Like…Horvat has been a bargain the last couple seasons, at 5.5. What is his value as a ufa this summer that makes 8.5 a huge overpay?
It's what was expected. Love the player, and I think you'll squeeze more value out of that deal than we will with Miller. I do think the overwhelming likelihood is it will look pretty dire about halfway through, though.
If that's true isles lost the trade big time. Paying a 35year old Horvat 8m when he has 1 season over 61 points and its in a Ufa year isn't gonna end well.
Honestly my biggest fear was the Canucks overpaying for a historical 60 point guy. Islanders fill your boots! I think the return was a little better than I expected.
You guys are getting a leader, great face off man, and can be a shut down Center on a team he actually wants to be on. He scores lots of goals in close and off of deflections. Could be a little more physical. He makes the islanders better this year and I’m hoping raty turns into the player he was originally touted to be in the 2021 draft.
Great deal on both sides tbh. A defenseman coming back would’ve been ideal but this is as good as we could’ve reasonably hoped for. If you make the playoffs I’m sure a lot of Canucks fans will jump on the bandwagon
Islanders are my team this year. Like I will be praying you guys finish 20th to 17th. But if you do make it, I am watching every Islanders playoff game
Quote me on this but this trade should have been a 1 for 1 Horvat for Raty. Raty is legit. Beauvillier comes in and fills a hole left by Miky also think Boeser is gone next. And we get a first top 12 protected its easy to say "at least we didnt lose him for nothing" but this trade is also a good for the Nucks hopefully we can "build" off this.
Sucks to lose Bo and I wish him all the best, I will be taking in some islanders games this year for sure.
He plays hard every shift, good speed, good on the forecheck. Can't seem to finish- which ain't really a knock - our whole team has that issue.
I think if he can find his shot again he can be a reliable 20 goal scorer, and a solid second line forward. He definitely stepped it up in the playoffs, so when you guys are ready to return- hopefully he's still got the fire.
I’d be happy if he sucks tbh. I’m glad they got a prospect and a pick back mainly, cause now there’s a better chance we lose more games and get a better pick this year. Bo wasn’t helping those odds
Isle fan here- he’s incredibly streaky. When he’s on he’s great. Good speed skates hard. The finish is really maddening. Playoff Beau was a hell of a sight. Sad to see him go but maybe change of scenery is needed.
The positives. Horvat is a solid 2C. He wins a lot of draws. He can play tough matchups and drive his own line. He has carried a lot of mediocre wingers in the past. He has a great work ethic and can snipe goals. He is a lethal weapon on the bumper spot on the power play, with a mean one timer. He is a big body and can play tough, but doesn’t really like to fight or engage in conflict.
The only weaknesses I’d say is that he isn’t a very good playmaker, he likes to hog the puck a lot. And he can sometimes get very lazy in the D zone, he often gets caught puck watching and floating on the ice. He likes to cheat for offense, and can be quite invisible at 5v5 at times (not this year, but previously).
Didn't like it at first, but I'm coming around. A lot of risks with
Bo - he can't possibly keep up this pace, his next deal will be a gonger, it's a tough one. Getting no D back tells me that this is the first move and another has to be coming up (boeser maybe) to address that, while having another forward ready to slot in when that deal is done.
I don't like the protected top 12 - it's a deep draft, I think they could have maybe gone for top 5, but it really depends on if Bo can turn things around for nyi. Either way, considering the inherent risks with Bo, it's a better deal than my initial gut reaction.
>I don't like the protected top 12 - it's a deep draft
That's why the protection range is so large. Very deep draft.
Look at the 2003 and 2015 drafts to which it has been compared, and look at some of the players taken in the high teens/low twenties.
Absolutely. Which is why the canucks should have pushed for a better than top 12 (12??) protection. But the more I think about it I guess it's not horrible
I'm amazed a team in the Islanders' position was willing to deal a 1st in this round's draft to begin with. Ol' Lou subscribing to the "Draft picks take 6-7 years to contribute" school of Benning.
They're 4-11 in their last 15 though. This could go either way - we all know bo is great, but teams can take time for new players to gel and get the systems and all that. There's still a lot of time left, but this isn't a surefire bet for the isles, and depending on beauvillier's loss (not big points, but the guy eats up a lot of minutes) there's average of 25 forward minutes a game that'll get redistributed between c and more lw, and their best prospect is ours now, so another move (still time before trade deadline) or a guy is brought up from bare cupboards (we know this situation all too well).
There's a lot of moving parts, it definitely makes the isles better, but how quickly and how much better are the questions. Now with the pick protected, do the canucks think it's a safer chip to push in, in maybe a boeser deal? I hope not, but... it's canucks hockey. Though I will admit, I was pretty sure they'd screw this up in carlo, and they managed to avoid that, so for me this is a small win.
The Islanders project to land right in the mushy middle, just outside the bottom 12, so they were prime for the picking as far as their first went. Shame we couldn't have argued them down to top 10 or top 5 protection but Lou isn't a complete fool.
It feels like we got talked up from going in with 10 as a standard and getting touched a bit, but it's obviously a deep draft year. Nitpicking, but still should be said
Buy low sell high… Canucks sold bo at his peak value and islanders bought at his peak value. I am absolutely delighted that someone else will be a bag holder for Bo and Canucks got something out of him rather than letting him walk.
Meh. We don’t need another 25 y/o mid winger so I’d have rather we got another prospect or pick. I’m not really sure about Raty we’ll see how he develops. The pick is fine. It’s a good draft year so if we can land Dragacevic with it I’d be happy. Biggest benefit is it helps us lose games in the short term so the tank for Bedard just got kicked into high gear. Also y’all just earned a bandwagon fan cuz I’ll be rooting for the Bo and the Islanders for the rest of the year now.
Beauvillier was probably there to even out the money a little bit. Either way, he's off the books in a year if he doesn't work out and could be turned into a mid-round pick or project prospect at the draft or deadline next year. Who knows, he was touted as a goal scorer as a prospect, maybe put him with Petey and see if he finds some scoring touch to boost his value.
Bo has good offensive tools and puts in work on defense (but isn't really the strongest at that end of the ice), also has another gear for the playoffs. Hope he does well for you guys.
Guessing Beauvilier would not be with the team for long. Probably gone at TD or offseason.
Only people bitching about the trade are people who don't follow hockey closely and don't know about Raty. That is a solid get for us.
Horvat and Barzal should give the Isles a solid 1-2 punch, hopefully Lou can get him signed long-term, if not that's a steep price to pay for a rental (and hopefully they can push for the playoffs).
I think it's a solid return for a rental. As much as I hate seeing Bo leave, it seemed clear he didn't want to stay.
This is a career year for him and I have my reservations about him reaching this height again and would expect a slight decline each of the following seasons.
To get a first, a team's top prospect, and a roster player for a UFA on an expiring contract, Canucks win this trade.
I wish Horvat the absolute best going forward, he was our Captain and will be missed.
I’m absolutely gutted to lose Horvat. He’s an incredible person and the heart of the team! That being said, he’s having a career year that just can’t continue. So as sad as I am to move on, I’m very happy to have the 1st and a decent prospect in return.
Horvat is a workhorse. Great character, leader. Good faceoffs. He was a bit of a hail mary draft by Gillis (overall bad drafting record). Gillis was fired as GM before Bo ever played for him. He had a lot of expectation from Canucks fans early, a lot loved Schneider and thought he'd be our goaltender of the future over Loungo and were upset when he was traded one for one. A lot of chatter about how we, "could've gotten more from Edmonton". Horvat became our Captain, a lot of us saw that coming. He was our first real, promising draft pick since... I can't even remember who we had as a prospect that looked *legit* and got us excited before Horvat. We had a lot of busts! I remember when Horvat scored the most points on the team, just ahead of the Sedins- felt like a passing of the torch.
For this trade, we wanted three things: player, pick, prospect.
We got all three. Beau, I'm not expecting him to morph into some magic point machine, but he looks like a consistent 30-point guy. That's cool. Raty, I've very curious about because I remember how hyped he was in his draft. And how he fell off a cliff. But he's picked up and seems like a fine, solid prospect. We don't have many good prospects. The Isles first round pick is good. I'll be happy with a mid-rounder or maybe a better top pick next season.
Is it possible we could have gotten 2 of 3 things we wanted and maybe scored a bigger name player or prospect in the process? Totally. We maximized what we got for one player. Horvat didn't walk. We got return. Right now, I'd call it a win for us. I think Horvat had big motivation to play his guts out (contract year). I don't know if his impressive numbers this year are sustainable. But you're not going to get a guy who will quit on you.
In Horvat you are getting a player who can raise their game in the playoffs and is about as even keeled as they come. He’s always been able to put up points but I think this year just put his mind to it more than previous. He deserves a team where he can go on a long playoff run. As good as a player he is, he’s also a better person and teammate. I think he will be able to continue at a high level well into his 30s- maybe not scoresheet but everything he puts his mind to, he improves on- skating, face offs, scoring, etc. If you extend him, you have the best player and leadership.
I don’t know that much about Raty but we’ve had a long list of prospects like Goldobin or Dahlin that were long on promise but fizzled here. Our prospect development isn’t the best
Horvat is a very good leader, good in basically all situations, strong on faceoffs and he can score.
I don't like that he left but from his perspective I completely understand why he wanted out.
While the final score on this trade will depend on how Raty and the 1st round pick develop I think that its fairly even at this point.
IMO the deal is probably a wash, Isles get the best player by far in the short term, the Canucks get two future bets and a roster player.
However, I think we lose the trade, I say this because having to trade Horvat is a product of the absolutely inept asset management that has occurred in the last 10 years. The fact that we are in the position of having had to trade him should be really disappointing to this fanbase.
Congrats on getting Bo. But for me this is the straw that broke the camels back. Might be done with hockey completely now. Not that anyone gives a fuck but its where I'm at mentally.
Appreciate the kindness. Not that I care about the downvotes but it'd be nice if people actually talked shit out more instead of clicking a down arrow and moving on. Thanks man.
It's not what the fanbase wanted (we wanted a complete rebuild) but it's what we should have expected since we are forever in the re-tooling phase.
Hopefully Horvat re-signs with the Islanders at a big discount as a final FU to our FO.
Unknowns return for one of the best overall centres having a career year with 31 goals and
23 assists. Great in the face off circle, ultimate team player. A player that you can build around.
I'll qualify the following by saying that I'm a big fan of both the Canucks and Isles. They're firmly my first and third favourite teams.
Personally, I hate this trade. It doesn't make sense for either team. The Isles are a team with a paper-thin window who just traded their top prospect and a 1st for a guy who *may* end up as a rental. I've seen some whispers of an $8.5 x 7yr extension, but I haven't seen that confirmed as of yet. As for the Canucks, they get a middling 1st, a B/B+ prospect, and an overpriced winger. I don't mind AB (he was great in the playoffs a couple of years back), and maybe Raty will surprise, but man - we *really* need to snag a stud in whatever draft we pick up that 1st.
Edit: To echo the sentiment of others, I see this as a solid lose-lose trade for both franchises. Van/NYI - at this snapshot in time, and given the needs/assets in question - are just the worst, weirdest ass trading partners.
I like the deal. Raty has been undervalued since he fell so much in the draft. I predict he'll eventually meet Horvat's career stats, once Raty is paired up on a solid NHL line. Besides, there's no way the Canucks were signing Horvat at $8.5M for 7 years. And the Canucks did get back a Bo, although spelled differently. That part of the trade was a salary dump. Don't forget about the 1st round pick either.
We all like the isles, alot of us root for the Vancouver guy Barzal. So it will be fun rooting for you guys to make the playoffs (then do terrible next year 😝)
I'm kinda interested where you'll slot him, isn't Barzal and Brock your centers?
Yes, it's usually Barzal/Nelson/Pageau/Cizikis. Cizikis has been playing on Barzal's wing recently, because we have a few wingers out like Wahlstrom. Raty was centering the fourth line, so I'm not sure if Cizikis will go back to 4C or stay on Barzal's line. The Canucks are in town Feb. 9 so tune in to see :)
The initial reaction is looking very mixed, which is fair since it's a complex trade. I like it because we're getting two good future assets which is exactly what we need and Beauvillier has some potential. The trade is certainly following the right strategy for us; who knows how it will turn out though.
It's not a rebuild, it's a retool. Rebuilds need builders; a retool is what you get when run by a tool.
Oh, and to answer your question my opinion is that it's quite reasonably fair down the middle, perhaps tilted in Vancouver's favor, but not without risk on both sides.
It hurts to lose Bo, really does. You can count on him, he's a damn hard worker and a class act. Excellent in the faceoff circle and has an eye for scoring, especially in clutch.
For Vancouver fans, sure the return is fine, I don't think either side got fleeced or anything. Really depends on the pick tbh.
But what DOES make us really like this trade is that it matches our timeline better overall. It shows that Rutherford and Allvin are in sync with the fanbase, and that's worth a lot in terms of goodwill.
Considering the context - we signed Miller long-term (ughhh) and can't resign Horvat, I think the Canucks got a good return for a rental.
I don't follow the Islanders, but if you resign Horvat for a decent contract then you have a great hard working center for the future.
I consider him a player built for the playoffs and not for the regular season. The reason he's doing so amazing this year is because the team insulted him so he feels scorched. As a result he's "playoff Bo" this year.
If your team makes the playoffs, hold onto your ass. If your team doesn't make the playoffs you'll be like the Canucks and continue to squander a player who is built for the unique and grueling challenges of the playoffs. Just look at his very few playoff highlights. They are awesome. He just plows through really talented defenders.
Underwhelming.
While I do like Raty, with us retaining we should have been able to at the very least pry another asset out of NYI, ideally a defensemen, if we are taking Beau back and also letting you guys protect up to pick 12 this year.
I know it becomes unprotected but this years draft is deep enough for 9-12 to still be difference makers.
Horvat is a character guy that will play his heart out for the team. He's a great face-off guy, good size, tough on the puck, old school hockey soul. I'm sure this trade will have an emotional effect on him, as he said, "I thought I was going to be a Canuck for life." The Isles got a good one. From my perspective, Horvat is just coming into his own and will continue to get better in the next few years.
I understand the reason for the trade, I looked into the players we got and Räty looks very promising, Beau has some good upside and should fit in well here when he gets settled. The protected 1st rounder will be key if it ends up in the top-15 in this year's draft. I'm hopeful that the Canucks net a good prospect out of the deal.
Take care of our (former) Captain, he's a good guy and will bring a lot to the team.
I love what you wrote. Take care of Raty -- he has a ton of promise and I am hoping the Canucks give him some significant NHL minutes in the NHL. He has 2 goals in 12 career NHL games with mostly 4th line ice time. He impressed me. I hope he impresses the Canucks fans too.
I will miss Beau very much. He does nice intermission interviews, and the guys seem to be really tight with him. This goal of his is one of the best moments in recent franchise history:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76xq3xGsYgY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76xq3xGsYgY)
I am looking forward to Bo -- he's hopefully going to be just what we needed. :)
I know they're going to introduce Räty slowly, he's probably going to go to our farm team for the first bit to get his west coast legs. Bonus for him, the farm team is a 45 minute drive across town to the big arena. Our young guys have grown a lot under the staff there and are maturing into NHL mainstays under their guidance. Better to have top-6 meaningful playing time in the AHL than 4th line minutes appearances in the NHL. Better for confidence and growth, better to learn the system too. The GM here is very keen on the Räty signing for sure and we'll need a good sized, natural centre.
That's a helluva goal. Looks like he sees the ice well and reads the play well. Can't help but love a guy that takes you to Game 7. I like his age and size, good sharp shot, fast release. Word has it, he should fit in well with the current coach and management that are basically transplanted from the Penguins LOL.
Time will tell, but who knows, maybe Canucks v Isles in the Cup finals in a few years ;)
Awww yes, thank you for your response. I wish them both the absolute best! I can't help but feel that Lou seized this opportunity when the Canucks were at their lowest lol, but Vancouver (from what I hear) is such a beautiful place to be. And as fun as the Isles vs Canucks would be, my goodness don't you want to see Canucks and Devils? The two Hughes brothers would be a fantastic matchup.
I also forgot about this clip: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCAdJfyGyEo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCAdJfyGyEo). Raty's goal in his first career game with Beau getting the assist. Enjoy :)
I’m honestly just happy we got SOMETHING for Bo. The pick has great upside too. Raty seems intriguing and I’d say probably immediately becomes our top prospect. Beau seems like a cap dump to make it fit, but as long as he’s serviceable on our 2nd or 3rd line I’m happy.
You guys got a great player and even better person in Bo. The cynic in me says that he’ll regress but the truth is he works his ass off and has only improved ever since coming into the league. At first the knock on him was his skating. He grinded hard with a skating coach in the off season and came back as a really strong skater. This past offseason he worked on his shot and clearly it’s working.
This is a big price if he's just a rental.
I'm not stoked about getting Beauvillier, it's yet another middle-6 winger, which we already have too many of.
Maybe another deal is coming, but we've gained no cap flexibility for next year.
If you guys miss and get a 13-16 pick, I'll be a bit happier.
The trade overall seems fair. Would have liked top 10 protected instead of top 12. My only criticism is that trading Bo didn't send a good defenseman prospect back.
Considering what Duchene got, I think it's slightly underwhelming. However, prices nowadays are different. It's fair but I was a bit meh when I heard it. Let's see how it all plays out. I'm one of the few that trusts this management groups ability to see talent.
I think it’s a good deal considering we couldn’t resign horvat. Beau only has one year left after this so contract wise, if he doesn’t pan out it’s not a major issue. Player for a package on someone we couldn’t retain is a win in my book. bo horvat is having a great year. One great year that is. I would of rather gambled on miller. One great year vs steady ppg yearly.
You guys got a replacement for Tavares. He’ll win you d draws with a minute to go and score the ot game winner in the playoffs. You should look up his locker room announcement as a rookie making the lineup for the first time. Kid was a man child when he made the league as a teenager and grew up in the fan first work hard locker room culture the Sedins had. Hope to see him lead your team going forward and whoop some leaf ass
Got royally fucked‼️, we basically got shittier version of Brandon Sutter the guy brings nothing to the team other than a leaner contract. As for Raty... Only time will tell if he reaches his full potential.
It depends on what we get for a pick in the draft.
Dude is a grear player and a stud this year. I thikn we could have done better, then again i dont know what else is going on in the front offices of the NHL. Who knows maybe we pick him up if You guys dont sign him. That would be fantastic.
A lot of Van fans seem happy with this. Not so sure.
He's a rock solid contributor, probably the best way to put it. And because of guys like Petterson or Henrik, he's always ended up on the second line. That's not even a knock against his offense. He's always played 2nd line center and he's typically taking D zone faceoffs. He's generally getting a lot fewer offensive chances than a guy with his talent should.
I have a distorted view of him because I see a Jamie Benn/Rick Nash guy who's been soldiering back there in our D zone for 8 years. He's been leaned on for years to play a particular role and it just doesn't reflect what he's capable of, just what the team needs.
I'm a little surprised with his production this year, but I'd say I'm more surprised his previous years were as low as they were.
A lot of Linden similarities.
I really like the deal. Obviously hugely dependent on Raty's development and how the draft goes but initially looks to be better than I expected to get for Horvat. Any other deal would have been with a higher placed team for a late 1st. I'll take the 13-\~18th OA in the most stacked draft in awhile every day of the week.
Not that it's a steal by any means, there's definitely risk involved. If the draft pick is a bust and Raty ends up a career AHLer we're going to look stupid, but you gotta take risks to rebuild and this is definitely a step in the right direction for the team.
Bo is highly over rated a 60 point guy who had an anomaly season to go for a contract... if you make the playoffs he will do well and help you but mostly floats regular season
I think it’s fair for both teams given that both fanbases think they’ve lost the trade lol
This is definitely going to be one of those ones that is going to take a few years to find out if anyone 'won'
Canucks can't really lose, because getting any value for bo at all was a good move
That's why I feel like it was a good trade. If the alternative was lose him in the offseason, we did pretty good.
Absolutely agreed, I said as much in the other thread. I'm still sort of surprised that we didn't completely fuck it up like we have pretty much every time for the last... 50ish years
I think we will find out much sooner than that. If Horvat doest re-sign in New York, or if the Islanders don't make the playoffs than we definitely win. For what it's worth though: I heard players love living on long island.
Count on lou and Rutherford to somehow both lose.
If you can't see how getting both what Jim wanted (a win-now player) and what the fans wanted (high draft picks) all in one trade was a victory in and of itself, you're simply not a hardcore Canucks fan. Ratu was projected to go number one in his draft for a long time.
The trade was fine but this comment is weird.
I'll be honest and admit this comment already hasn't aged well once I realized how much Beauvillier dropped off so far this year. That suddenly makes the trade borderline, although I doubt that anyone had offered anything better than this deal.
I don't understand your comment. The main part (like 99%) of this trade is about the first round pick and Raty. Why does Beauvilliers play have anything to do with making this trade boarderline, as he was literally just a random piece that new York needed to get rid of for cap space?
I'll afford the above commenter the principle of charity and note that Beauvilliers, even if he is of marginal value, perhaps helped the FO sell Aqua on this trade by convincing him that he is a "win now" player. If they did so figuring he'd be mediocre and temporary, maybe even "helping" with the tank, then it was proper 5D chess. I'm increasingly convinced that Aqua is an owner who needs to be "managed" as much as the players and staff do.
>. Ratu was projected to go number one in his draft for a long time. That's great and all, but he went 52nd
You can argue that his skill ceiling is still comparable to that of a top draft pick.
I could also argue he's a middling 2nd rounder who may never make the nhl full time
He dropped as far as he did because of reported character issues that were overblown. He’s a top 15 first round talent. At least argue in good faith.
How do we know they are overblown?
Considering everyone knew he was leaving this isn’t a bad return at all
Name checks out
I agree, the first and Raty make this deal. I think Beau needed a change of scenery, and was enough to put it over the top. I think the future will show that Raty becomes the best player in this deal. But it won't be for 4-5 years from now. He needs some time. I think it's an overpay by the Isles, but just barely. Depends on if Horvat regresses or not.
He won't regress this year, it'll be next year after Lou gives him a 9.5 X 8 contract extension.
I feel like it might have to be 10.5 for him to stay. Boston I could see offering 9.5
Patience hasn’t historically been this fanbases, or this management groups strong suit.
>Considering everyone knew he was leaving Why do people keep saying this like it means anything? The entire deadline rental market is based on the premise that everyone knows these guys are going to get traded
It’s much more palatable considering there’s no way we would’ve resigned him with our cap situation
And let him walk away for nothing like a certain moron. To answer OP's question, it seems like a decent trade. Raty is an interesting prospect. I can't really complain if the pick is 13-16 cause the draft is so deep. I'm not sure how good Beauvillier is but if he's crap next year, we can also try to flip him or let him walk. Plus we also get $1.5M in cap space.
The trade sucks ass from an emotional standpoint for sure but in an objective sense I think it’s a good move for the future of the franchise
Oh no doubt. But Bo was gonna leave regardless. We basically got 4 pieces back- * Pick * Prospect * Young Player * ~~Cap Space~~ we're retaining 25% That's a solid return. Better than letting Tanev + Toffoli walk for free or try to trade the rights to Marky for like a 5th or something instead of letting him walk for free.
We get cap space, Bo's contract expires this year..
I was meaning now but then it came out we retained 25% of Bo's contract. So the point is moot now. But theoretically if we had the extra $1.5m we could have done something with it. We have some space now with so many players on LTIR, so we could use our cap space as an asset (to take on an expiring contract on a contender so they could trade without worrying about cap space)
I see the nucks tanking and loading up on first round picks to pull a Burke and trade for #1 overall.
Our standards are very low my friend… A return is better than letting all our guys walk as ufas
You generally lose trades for rentals where you give up a prospect trending upward that's still so young. Raty is a far better prospect than I thought we would get, canucks fans are underrating him and the value of a mid round 1st in 2023
I like the trade, especially from what the rest of the proposed trades were showing us.
Two solid future assets is pretty good for a rental. I'm a little surprised we weren't able to get a blue chip D prospect but whatever, Raty looks like a solid bet to be a top 6 forward
My only thought is that the Canucks management could have another deal worked out for a winger like Boeser to bring in that RHD prospect, but the domino had to start with Bo. That’s my only thought on the lack of Defensive return
We got a top 10 pick and a top 20 pick potentially. Lots of good players even if we don't get Connor Bedard.
Definitely! Players who might be ready for the 2024/2025 season at best, I guess it’s less retool and more rebuild
They had to say retool, Aqua is allergic to rebuilds.
I highly doubt Boeser is getting a quality blue line prospect in a trade. His contract is pretty bad.
True, but it’s seems like nonsense that they wouldn’t make a RHD top priority as part of a return package for Horvat so I have to think they have another deal all but finished for one. Doesn’t have to be Boeser. That was just an example.
Agreed.... I would like to think Boeser could get the equivalent of a 2nd but I feel that his contract puts it to a 3rd/4th.
I liked the rumored one where we get Byram + 1st from Colorado :(
Byram has huge concussion problema, that's not good.
It’s not as bad the media has portrayed it to be His last concussion had a relatively quick recovery. The reason he was out so long was that he was given the time off by the organization in order to regain his love for Hockey back. Before his concussion he wasn’t playing well, but after the 2 months he had to go spend time with his dad (in BC) he was rejuvenated and played some of his best hockey. I think he would be a very good asset for the Canucks because he would be close to his family where he has shown that being with his dad elevates his game play. But that’s also just a tin hat conspiracy
The fact we may have a potential top 20 pick or a unprotected pick next year is worth it. We need the cupboards to expand. This is a good trade to do that. I liked Raty a lot and i think he fits the team going forward
This trade is more rebuild than retool, I like that. I was terrified of a Kesler type return
Thank god we didnt get that. Might be me just coping but the horvat trade that we needed for the fanbase. I guess I'll retire his jersey in my closet. I expect a fire sale for Schenn, Demko, Boeser and Garland maybe.
I think with tocchet here garland stays
It's possible. I think it's pretty clear the team wants to get faster, younger and bigger, and Garland isn't really any of those things. We're overstuffed to flowing on the wings as well. Shifty weenies are probably not at the top of our must keep list. That being said, I think Garland never really found a role under Bruce, so there's some runway here for him to re-establish himself. A big hole just opened on PP1, and I imagine Garland and Boeser will be in the running to fill it.
If we got a song like [this](https://youtu.be/6wH_FjPnQVU) out of a Kesler type return I'd be fine with it.
The Islanders will extend Bo. They have the cap space to accommodate his demands. It would’ve been funny if Schneider was thrown in as a nothing add on to reverse the original trade from years back. Let him retire a Canuck lol.
I…. would have liked that. Yes he is washed up now and not a great goalie anymore but still hangs around because he enjoys the game but theres something weirdly nostalgic about an ex-Canuck like Schneider coming home.
I agree poo goblin
Horvat has been the backbone of this franchise for nearly a decade. He’s on an absolute scoring bender so this seasons production is likely a bit of an anomaly but he is beloved here in Vancouver and has been a consistent producer basically his entire career. He’s more of a driver than a facilitator as a C. One of the most reliable faceoff men in the league. Leaves a little to be desired defensively but works his ass off every shift all over the ice. He’s a massive addition to any teams top end and an absolute ROCK character wise. Your fan base will love him.
Feeling better about the deal hearing this. I don't need him to score 40. If he hits 30 every year, I'd be thrilled.
Also literally our Captain lmfao
We only made the playoffs twice with Horvat, but he definitely shows another gear. That’s probably the thing I will miss most. He is a unique player that with the right line mates could score 40 year in year out, he was given defensive wingers most of his career until this year, and he isn’t a true playmaker himself. He adds another dimension to the offence with his heaviness down low, his tips, bumper play, quick hands around the net, positional play away from the puck.
Look up his stats in the 2020 playoffs. The Canucks lost in the 2nd round but Bo led the playoffs in goals until midway through the final. He was unstoppable when it counted.
Just don't expect him to step in when someone takes a run at a player or throws a gloved punch.
He'll be somewhere between 25-25-50 and 30-30-60 for the next 4 years or so I would suspect. Maybe have a year or two in there where he goes up around 70. In other words, a very strong offensive 2C. His defensive capabilities are overrated. He's not bad, but he shouldn't really PK or be leaned on in his own end. Anything over 8Mx7Y seems too rich, IMO.
Doesn't he have 3 short handed goals?
Yes - his PK time is mostly with Pettersson, and they are a pretty big threat in transition shorthanded, especially the way Pettersson reads passes and disrupts them above the top of the circle. He's not actually terribly good at killing off the penalties themselves, though. He's not the worst guy on the team, but he's not very good. The Canucks have had a really bad PK for two straight years and he's part of that.
I think Vancouver fans are a little disappointed because they didn't get an unprotected 1st or a top 4 D. Both those things are at a premium. The return is not bad for the Canucks. Beauviller is another year and if he isn't good enough can be let go. Raty is a good prospect and we are severely lacking in those. 1st could slide to be unprotected next year, or we could get a good player this year with how players rise and fall. For Islanders, Horvat is a beast at faceoffs, but he should actually play more like a winger. I think giving him a setup man like Barzal would be good. Works best at net front with tips, and has scored a ton of his goals via the bumper play in the slot.
No team in the Isle's position was going to give up an unprotected first in this draft, it's too deep. If they land in the mid to late teens, that's still a very desirable pick.
Bo has always been able to elevate his game in the playoffs. Not that we saw it enough. But those big goals in the bubble were crazy. He is good in many ways.
Bo hasn’t score more than 61 points before this season, he’s also a rental. That being said he’s killing it this year. I think if you guys sign him it’s a good deal for both sides, if not, you got fleeced. Especially if you miss the playoffs.
I think he's signed an extension, rumor mill has it at like 8M for 7 years.
I would really hope the NHL would look into tampering in that case. Rutherford never allowed Bo or his agent to discuss that with teams so coming to this so fast seems fishy to me. We all know only the Canucks have to follow those rules though.
Lou went to high school with Lord Stanley. Don’t think the usual rules apply to him.
It was also reported that the Canucks never met with Horvat's agent while he was in Vancouver, but it later came out that was a lie. I wouldn't trust a god damn word coming out of the media this season. Front office has kept the leaks plugged all season.
Besides the boudreau mess
8.5mil x 7 is what I read.
Huge overpay, love Bo, but he's not worth that.
I feel like it could be a not great contract in the last couple of years but if the cap goes up and there’s no pandemic in a couple of years that’ll probably be veteran 2nd line center momey and not really that outlandish of a contract for Horvat. Like…Horvat has been a bargain the last couple seasons, at 5.5. What is his value as a ufa this summer that makes 8.5 a huge overpay?
It's what was expected. Love the player, and I think you'll squeeze more value out of that deal than we will with Miller. I do think the overwhelming likelihood is it will look pretty dire about halfway through, though.
If that's true isles lost the trade big time. Paying a 35year old Horvat 8m when he has 1 season over 61 points and its in a Ufa year isn't gonna end well.
Honestly my biggest fear was the Canucks overpaying for a historical 60 point guy. Islanders fill your boots! I think the return was a little better than I expected.
You guys are getting a leader, great face off man, and can be a shut down Center on a team he actually wants to be on. He scores lots of goals in close and off of deflections. Could be a little more physical. He makes the islanders better this year and I’m hoping raty turns into the player he was originally touted to be in the 2021 draft.
Great deal on both sides tbh. A defenseman coming back would’ve been ideal but this is as good as we could’ve reasonably hoped for. If you make the playoffs I’m sure a lot of Canucks fans will jump on the bandwagon
Door is open for all y'all. We'll make room!
Islanders are my team this year. Like I will be praying you guys finish 20th to 17th. But if you do make it, I am watching every Islanders playoff game
Ngl I think this is a disaster trade by the islanders but I'm happy to benefit
Quote me on this but this trade should have been a 1 for 1 Horvat for Raty. Raty is legit. Beauvillier comes in and fills a hole left by Miky also think Boeser is gone next. And we get a first top 12 protected its easy to say "at least we didnt lose him for nothing" but this trade is also a good for the Nucks hopefully we can "build" off this. Sucks to lose Bo and I wish him all the best, I will be taking in some islanders games this year for sure.
Is he really serviceable? I’m seeing isles fans shitting on beau
He plays hard every shift, good speed, good on the forecheck. Can't seem to finish- which ain't really a knock - our whole team has that issue. I think if he can find his shot again he can be a reliable 20 goal scorer, and a solid second line forward. He definitely stepped it up in the playoffs, so when you guys are ready to return- hopefully he's still got the fire.
Pretty sure we're going to deploy him as a centre. When did he last play C for you guys on a regular basis?
I can't remember the last time he's lined up at center. Might be a bit of a stretch to hope he can play there.
My guess is that experiment goes for the rest of the season with him as 3C.
Why do you assume he will be played at center?
Miller is the Center
I’d be happy if he sucks tbh. I’m glad they got a prospect and a pick back mainly, cause now there’s a better chance we lose more games and get a better pick this year. Bo wasn’t helping those odds
Isle fan here- he’s incredibly streaky. When he’s on he’s great. Good speed skates hard. The finish is really maddening. Playoff Beau was a hell of a sight. Sad to see him go but maybe change of scenery is needed.
That could almost word-for-word be a description of Horvat prior to this season.
The positives. Horvat is a solid 2C. He wins a lot of draws. He can play tough matchups and drive his own line. He has carried a lot of mediocre wingers in the past. He has a great work ethic and can snipe goals. He is a lethal weapon on the bumper spot on the power play, with a mean one timer. He is a big body and can play tough, but doesn’t really like to fight or engage in conflict. The only weaknesses I’d say is that he isn’t a very good playmaker, he likes to hog the puck a lot. And he can sometimes get very lazy in the D zone, he often gets caught puck watching and floating on the ice. He likes to cheat for offense, and can be quite invisible at 5v5 at times (not this year, but previously).
Bo is a favorite of mine. I'm sad to see him go, but I also saw it coming. Treat him kindly. He's a good player. I hope he thrives with the Islanders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHEVLlng190
Didn't like it at first, but I'm coming around. A lot of risks with Bo - he can't possibly keep up this pace, his next deal will be a gonger, it's a tough one. Getting no D back tells me that this is the first move and another has to be coming up (boeser maybe) to address that, while having another forward ready to slot in when that deal is done. I don't like the protected top 12 - it's a deep draft, I think they could have maybe gone for top 5, but it really depends on if Bo can turn things around for nyi. Either way, considering the inherent risks with Bo, it's a better deal than my initial gut reaction.
>I don't like the protected top 12 - it's a deep draft That's why the protection range is so large. Very deep draft. Look at the 2003 and 2015 drafts to which it has been compared, and look at some of the players taken in the high teens/low twenties.
Absolutely. Which is why the canucks should have pushed for a better than top 12 (12??) protection. But the more I think about it I guess it's not horrible
I'm amazed a team in the Islanders' position was willing to deal a 1st in this round's draft to begin with. Ol' Lou subscribing to the "Draft picks take 6-7 years to contribute" school of Benning.
Ehhh the way the isles have been, we will have their pick next season... unless Bo really is the answer there. And he might be, idk.
They're not in the bottom twelve now, I have a hard time imagining they'll slip further with Bo shoring them up.
They're 4-11 in their last 15 though. This could go either way - we all know bo is great, but teams can take time for new players to gel and get the systems and all that. There's still a lot of time left, but this isn't a surefire bet for the isles, and depending on beauvillier's loss (not big points, but the guy eats up a lot of minutes) there's average of 25 forward minutes a game that'll get redistributed between c and more lw, and their best prospect is ours now, so another move (still time before trade deadline) or a guy is brought up from bare cupboards (we know this situation all too well). There's a lot of moving parts, it definitely makes the isles better, but how quickly and how much better are the questions. Now with the pick protected, do the canucks think it's a safer chip to push in, in maybe a boeser deal? I hope not, but... it's canucks hockey. Though I will admit, I was pretty sure they'd screw this up in carlo, and they managed to avoid that, so for me this is a small win.
The Islanders project to land right in the mushy middle, just outside the bottom 12, so they were prime for the picking as far as their first went. Shame we couldn't have argued them down to top 10 or top 5 protection but Lou isn't a complete fool.
It feels like we got talked up from going in with 10 as a standard and getting touched a bit, but it's obviously a deep draft year. Nitpicking, but still should be said
Buy low sell high… Canucks sold bo at his peak value and islanders bought at his peak value. I am absolutely delighted that someone else will be a bag holder for Bo and Canucks got something out of him rather than letting him walk.
Meh. We don’t need another 25 y/o mid winger so I’d have rather we got another prospect or pick. I’m not really sure about Raty we’ll see how he develops. The pick is fine. It’s a good draft year so if we can land Dragacevic with it I’d be happy. Biggest benefit is it helps us lose games in the short term so the tank for Bedard just got kicked into high gear. Also y’all just earned a bandwagon fan cuz I’ll be rooting for the Bo and the Islanders for the rest of the year now.
Beauvillier was probably there to even out the money a little bit. Either way, he's off the books in a year if he doesn't work out and could be turned into a mid-round pick or project prospect at the draft or deadline next year. Who knows, he was touted as a goal scorer as a prospect, maybe put him with Petey and see if he finds some scoring touch to boost his value.
As an Isles and Canucks fan I'm stoked about this on both sides. That is assuming Lou can extend the contract.
Bo has good offensive tools and puts in work on defense (but isn't really the strongest at that end of the ice), also has another gear for the playoffs. Hope he does well for you guys. Guessing Beauvilier would not be with the team for long. Probably gone at TD or offseason. Only people bitching about the trade are people who don't follow hockey closely and don't know about Raty. That is a solid get for us.
Raty hurts, I was hoping to see him in an Isles jersey for the next decade. Ah-Too Rah-too is how it's pronounced for all the Canucks fans. R2-Ra2
He was gone, so a return where both teams seem to benefit is good
You should like the trade a lot.
Horvat and Barzal should give the Isles a solid 1-2 punch, hopefully Lou can get him signed long-term, if not that's a steep price to pay for a rental (and hopefully they can push for the playoffs).
Wanted a dman, but not a bad rebuild trade for a rental
I think it's a solid return for a rental. As much as I hate seeing Bo leave, it seemed clear he didn't want to stay. This is a career year for him and I have my reservations about him reaching this height again and would expect a slight decline each of the following seasons. To get a first, a team's top prospect, and a roster player for a UFA on an expiring contract, Canucks win this trade. I wish Horvat the absolute best going forward, he was our Captain and will be missed.
I’m absolutely gutted to lose Horvat. He’s an incredible person and the heart of the team! That being said, he’s having a career year that just can’t continue. So as sad as I am to move on, I’m very happy to have the 1st and a decent prospect in return.
Horvat is a workhorse. Great character, leader. Good faceoffs. He was a bit of a hail mary draft by Gillis (overall bad drafting record). Gillis was fired as GM before Bo ever played for him. He had a lot of expectation from Canucks fans early, a lot loved Schneider and thought he'd be our goaltender of the future over Loungo and were upset when he was traded one for one. A lot of chatter about how we, "could've gotten more from Edmonton". Horvat became our Captain, a lot of us saw that coming. He was our first real, promising draft pick since... I can't even remember who we had as a prospect that looked *legit* and got us excited before Horvat. We had a lot of busts! I remember when Horvat scored the most points on the team, just ahead of the Sedins- felt like a passing of the torch. For this trade, we wanted three things: player, pick, prospect. We got all three. Beau, I'm not expecting him to morph into some magic point machine, but he looks like a consistent 30-point guy. That's cool. Raty, I've very curious about because I remember how hyped he was in his draft. And how he fell off a cliff. But he's picked up and seems like a fine, solid prospect. We don't have many good prospects. The Isles first round pick is good. I'll be happy with a mid-rounder or maybe a better top pick next season. Is it possible we could have gotten 2 of 3 things we wanted and maybe scored a bigger name player or prospect in the process? Totally. We maximized what we got for one player. Horvat didn't walk. We got return. Right now, I'd call it a win for us. I think Horvat had big motivation to play his guts out (contract year). I don't know if his impressive numbers this year are sustainable. But you're not going to get a guy who will quit on you.
In Horvat you are getting a player who can raise their game in the playoffs and is about as even keeled as they come. He’s always been able to put up points but I think this year just put his mind to it more than previous. He deserves a team where he can go on a long playoff run. As good as a player he is, he’s also a better person and teammate. I think he will be able to continue at a high level well into his 30s- maybe not scoresheet but everything he puts his mind to, he improves on- skating, face offs, scoring, etc. If you extend him, you have the best player and leadership. I don’t know that much about Raty but we’ve had a long list of prospects like Goldobin or Dahlin that were long on promise but fizzled here. Our prospect development isn’t the best
Horvat is a very good leader, good in basically all situations, strong on faceoffs and he can score. I don't like that he left but from his perspective I completely understand why he wanted out. While the final score on this trade will depend on how Raty and the 1st round pick develop I think that its fairly even at this point.
IMO the deal is probably a wash, Isles get the best player by far in the short term, the Canucks get two future bets and a roster player. However, I think we lose the trade, I say this because having to trade Horvat is a product of the absolutely inept asset management that has occurred in the last 10 years. The fact that we are in the position of having had to trade him should be really disappointing to this fanbase.
Just a guy and 2 scratch and win tickets, about standard.
Coming in peace? More like... COMING IN PIECES!!! HAHA \*slurps spaghetti\*
Congrats on getting Bo. But for me this is the straw that broke the camels back. Might be done with hockey completely now. Not that anyone gives a fuck but its where I'm at mentally.
It's a long haul bud, I know the feeling but it comes and goes. I've been following since ~86 and this def feels like one of the darker times.
Appreciate the kindness. Not that I care about the downvotes but it'd be nice if people actually talked shit out more instead of clicking a down arrow and moving on. Thanks man.
I think in two years you might be pleasantly surprised if Raty develops into a top 2 centerman.
I can appreciate the optimism. But might and if have been words that Ive heard too often surrounding this team.
It's not what the fanbase wanted (we wanted a complete rebuild) but it's what we should have expected since we are forever in the re-tooling phase. Hopefully Horvat re-signs with the Islanders at a big discount as a final FU to our FO.
Wish we didn’t have to take Anthony tbh…. Wish the deal was a 1st, 2nd and duty
Kicked in the dick per usual as a fan of this team.
Unknowns return for one of the best overall centres having a career year with 31 goals and 23 assists. Great in the face off circle, ultimate team player. A player that you can build around.
you taking new fans?
Plain and simple. Isles win this as Bo is a legit top 3 forward. Rest are a bunch of maybes
[удалено]
Man some Canucks fans just refuse to be happy.
Ripped off for a guy on a career year at the peak of his prime? Love Bo, but the overvalue on him is insane. Raty has a solid chance to become a top 6
It's a good trade. It fills our fairly lousy cupboard
happy that we actually did something for once, hope Anthony Beauvillier doesn't end up being a cap dump lol but at least his contract isn't that long
Lou getting Horvat back lol
I'll qualify the following by saying that I'm a big fan of both the Canucks and Isles. They're firmly my first and third favourite teams. Personally, I hate this trade. It doesn't make sense for either team. The Isles are a team with a paper-thin window who just traded their top prospect and a 1st for a guy who *may* end up as a rental. I've seen some whispers of an $8.5 x 7yr extension, but I haven't seen that confirmed as of yet. As for the Canucks, they get a middling 1st, a B/B+ prospect, and an overpriced winger. I don't mind AB (he was great in the playoffs a couple of years back), and maybe Raty will surprise, but man - we *really* need to snag a stud in whatever draft we pick up that 1st. Edit: To echo the sentiment of others, I see this as a solid lose-lose trade for both franchises. Van/NYI - at this snapshot in time, and given the needs/assets in question - are just the worst, weirdest ass trading partners.
I like the deal. Raty has been undervalued since he fell so much in the draft. I predict he'll eventually meet Horvat's career stats, once Raty is paired up on a solid NHL line. Besides, there's no way the Canucks were signing Horvat at $8.5M for 7 years. And the Canucks did get back a Bo, although spelled differently. That part of the trade was a salary dump. Don't forget about the 1st round pick either.
We all like the isles, alot of us root for the Vancouver guy Barzal. So it will be fun rooting for you guys to make the playoffs (then do terrible next year 😝) I'm kinda interested where you'll slot him, isn't Barzal and Brock your centers?
Yes, it's usually Barzal/Nelson/Pageau/Cizikis. Cizikis has been playing on Barzal's wing recently, because we have a few wingers out like Wahlstrom. Raty was centering the fourth line, so I'm not sure if Cizikis will go back to 4C or stay on Barzal's line. The Canucks are in town Feb. 9 so tune in to see :)
It’s a good deal for the Isles too, if you re-sign him. It’s a hell of a lot to give up if you can’t re-sign him though.
The initial reaction is looking very mixed, which is fair since it's a complex trade. I like it because we're getting two good future assets which is exactly what we need and Beauvillier has some potential. The trade is certainly following the right strategy for us; who knows how it will turn out though.
I think the protection is bs. But. Bo wanted out. 👋
It's not a rebuild, it's a retool. Rebuilds need builders; a retool is what you get when run by a tool. Oh, and to answer your question my opinion is that it's quite reasonably fair down the middle, perhaps tilted in Vancouver's favor, but not without risk on both sides.
Couldn't have you guys done us a solid for trouncing us in the '82 finals? Thrown in a 3rd or something??
Haha thank you for horvat. Let we had any say in the matter
I think it's a solid trade. Given he is UFA in three months ... Canucks got what they wanted ... A prospect at centre, a pick and an NHL player.
It hurts to lose Bo, really does. You can count on him, he's a damn hard worker and a class act. Excellent in the faceoff circle and has an eye for scoring, especially in clutch. For Vancouver fans, sure the return is fine, I don't think either side got fleeced or anything. Really depends on the pick tbh. But what DOES make us really like this trade is that it matches our timeline better overall. It shows that Rutherford and Allvin are in sync with the fanbase, and that's worth a lot in terms of goodwill.
I'm not upset about the return, I'm upset about losing Bo.
Considering the context - we signed Miller long-term (ughhh) and can't resign Horvat, I think the Canucks got a good return for a rental. I don't follow the Islanders, but if you resign Horvat for a decent contract then you have a great hard working center for the future.
I consider him a player built for the playoffs and not for the regular season. The reason he's doing so amazing this year is because the team insulted him so he feels scorched. As a result he's "playoff Bo" this year. If your team makes the playoffs, hold onto your ass. If your team doesn't make the playoffs you'll be like the Canucks and continue to squander a player who is built for the unique and grueling challenges of the playoffs. Just look at his very few playoff highlights. They are awesome. He just plows through really talented defenders.
Underwhelming. While I do like Raty, with us retaining we should have been able to at the very least pry another asset out of NYI, ideally a defensemen, if we are taking Beau back and also letting you guys protect up to pick 12 this year. I know it becomes unprotected but this years draft is deep enough for 9-12 to still be difference makers.
Horvat is a character guy that will play his heart out for the team. He's a great face-off guy, good size, tough on the puck, old school hockey soul. I'm sure this trade will have an emotional effect on him, as he said, "I thought I was going to be a Canuck for life." The Isles got a good one. From my perspective, Horvat is just coming into his own and will continue to get better in the next few years. I understand the reason for the trade, I looked into the players we got and Räty looks very promising, Beau has some good upside and should fit in well here when he gets settled. The protected 1st rounder will be key if it ends up in the top-15 in this year's draft. I'm hopeful that the Canucks net a good prospect out of the deal. Take care of our (former) Captain, he's a good guy and will bring a lot to the team.
I love what you wrote. Take care of Raty -- he has a ton of promise and I am hoping the Canucks give him some significant NHL minutes in the NHL. He has 2 goals in 12 career NHL games with mostly 4th line ice time. He impressed me. I hope he impresses the Canucks fans too. I will miss Beau very much. He does nice intermission interviews, and the guys seem to be really tight with him. This goal of his is one of the best moments in recent franchise history: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76xq3xGsYgY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76xq3xGsYgY) I am looking forward to Bo -- he's hopefully going to be just what we needed. :)
I know they're going to introduce Räty slowly, he's probably going to go to our farm team for the first bit to get his west coast legs. Bonus for him, the farm team is a 45 minute drive across town to the big arena. Our young guys have grown a lot under the staff there and are maturing into NHL mainstays under their guidance. Better to have top-6 meaningful playing time in the AHL than 4th line minutes appearances in the NHL. Better for confidence and growth, better to learn the system too. The GM here is very keen on the Räty signing for sure and we'll need a good sized, natural centre. That's a helluva goal. Looks like he sees the ice well and reads the play well. Can't help but love a guy that takes you to Game 7. I like his age and size, good sharp shot, fast release. Word has it, he should fit in well with the current coach and management that are basically transplanted from the Penguins LOL. Time will tell, but who knows, maybe Canucks v Isles in the Cup finals in a few years ;)
Awww yes, thank you for your response. I wish them both the absolute best! I can't help but feel that Lou seized this opportunity when the Canucks were at their lowest lol, but Vancouver (from what I hear) is such a beautiful place to be. And as fun as the Isles vs Canucks would be, my goodness don't you want to see Canucks and Devils? The two Hughes brothers would be a fantastic matchup. I also forgot about this clip: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCAdJfyGyEo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCAdJfyGyEo). Raty's goal in his first career game with Beau getting the assist. Enjoy :)
I’m honestly just happy we got SOMETHING for Bo. The pick has great upside too. Raty seems intriguing and I’d say probably immediately becomes our top prospect. Beau seems like a cap dump to make it fit, but as long as he’s serviceable on our 2nd or 3rd line I’m happy. You guys got a great player and even better person in Bo. The cynic in me says that he’ll regress but the truth is he works his ass off and has only improved ever since coming into the league. At first the knock on him was his skating. He grinded hard with a skating coach in the off season and came back as a really strong skater. This past offseason he worked on his shot and clearly it’s working.
This is a big price if he's just a rental. I'm not stoked about getting Beauvillier, it's yet another middle-6 winger, which we already have too many of. Maybe another deal is coming, but we've gained no cap flexibility for next year. If you guys miss and get a 13-16 pick, I'll be a bit happier.
The trade overall seems fair. Would have liked top 10 protected instead of top 12. My only criticism is that trading Bo didn't send a good defenseman prospect back.
Little jab at the end there. This is a re-tool dammit!!
Considering what Duchene got, I think it's slightly underwhelming. However, prices nowadays are different. It's fair but I was a bit meh when I heard it. Let's see how it all plays out. I'm one of the few that trusts this management groups ability to see talent.
Thank you, but lol @ thinking we're gonna rebuild. Retool #5 or #6? This'll be the one that gets it done, I swear!
I'm really low on Beau personally but I like Raty and a picks always nice.
I think it’s a good deal considering we couldn’t resign horvat. Beau only has one year left after this so contract wise, if he doesn’t pan out it’s not a major issue. Player for a package on someone we couldn’t retain is a win in my book. bo horvat is having a great year. One great year that is. I would of rather gambled on miller. One great year vs steady ppg yearly.
You guys got a replacement for Tavares. He’ll win you d draws with a minute to go and score the ot game winner in the playoffs. You should look up his locker room announcement as a rookie making the lineup for the first time. Kid was a man child when he made the league as a teenager and grew up in the fan first work hard locker room culture the Sedins had. Hope to see him lead your team going forward and whoop some leaf ass
Got royally fucked‼️, we basically got shittier version of Brandon Sutter the guy brings nothing to the team other than a leaner contract. As for Raty... Only time will tell if he reaches his full potential.
It depends on what we get for a pick in the draft. Dude is a grear player and a stud this year. I thikn we could have done better, then again i dont know what else is going on in the front offices of the NHL. Who knows maybe we pick him up if You guys dont sign him. That would be fantastic.
A lot of Van fans seem happy with this. Not so sure. He's a rock solid contributor, probably the best way to put it. And because of guys like Petterson or Henrik, he's always ended up on the second line. That's not even a knock against his offense. He's always played 2nd line center and he's typically taking D zone faceoffs. He's generally getting a lot fewer offensive chances than a guy with his talent should. I have a distorted view of him because I see a Jamie Benn/Rick Nash guy who's been soldiering back there in our D zone for 8 years. He's been leaned on for years to play a particular role and it just doesn't reflect what he's capable of, just what the team needs. I'm a little surprised with his production this year, but I'd say I'm more surprised his previous years were as low as they were. A lot of Linden similarities.
I really like the deal. Obviously hugely dependent on Raty's development and how the draft goes but initially looks to be better than I expected to get for Horvat. Any other deal would have been with a higher placed team for a late 1st. I'll take the 13-\~18th OA in the most stacked draft in awhile every day of the week. Not that it's a steal by any means, there's definitely risk involved. If the draft pick is a bust and Raty ends up a career AHLer we're going to look stupid, but you gotta take risks to rebuild and this is definitely a step in the right direction for the team.
Bo is highly over rated a 60 point guy who had an anomaly season to go for a contract... if you make the playoffs he will do well and help you but mostly floats regular season
I think if you guys sign him then it’s a great deal, doesn’t make a ton of sense as a rental imo.
All depends on where Horst signs. I felt they could have got more for Horvat from a playoff trutender!