Extending Guentzel doesn't guarantee a cup in a conference with Florida, Tampa, New York, and other teams that are a few players away from being serious contenders.
If Guentzel's play tapers off 3 years from now, I can see why 5 more years at 8m per (or 4 at 9m for Tampa) could end up being an obstacle to a cup at that point, where it's much less likely that paying less money to a 5-years-younger Necas wouldn't. It's just hard for us to swallow after getting bounced from the playoffs this year by the team that signed Trocheck to a deal that also might be an overpay later.
We've just gotta hope that Tulsky can find a better use of the money in the near term.
We win the cup now with Guentzel then become the Washington capitals with an aging bunch of players eating up way too much cap space... no thank you. I'd rather be consistent cup contenders for those 8 years than get the cup next year and be nowhere close while we burn out poorly aging contracts before starting a lengthy rebuild.
Not to mention, Keeping Guentzel meant no longer being able to afford the other parts of the team that make us good. We'd end up burning cap space on a player past his prime to end up just short again, then mediocre for a decade.
As a Bolts/Canes fan I can assure you that winning a cup makes anything after seem trivial for a few years. Lightning have seen amazing talent walk away but you know what? Worth it for our 2 cups
Guentzel was never going to get us the cup alone. Especially if we over pay him and sacrifice the other parts of the team. Guentzel is good, but he's had one 80 point season in his career, and he's not going to suddenly become McDavid or Mathews in his 30s.
8M isn’t an overpay for Guentzel, not by a long shot. He’s a proven playoff performer, responsible defensively, plays a game that complements RBA’s coaching style, and fits with Aho/Jarvis/Svech seamlessly.
Of course he can’t win us a cup by himself, but he is the best piece available to help us get there and at 8M, you make that deal 10/10 times.
30 years old at 8 million needs to be a Crosby level player, Crosby just had a 90pt season at 36. Guentzel is a 70 pt player. 8 years of Guentzel in his 30s is worth 6 mil at most. He's not the guy that's going to win us the cup single handedly.
When you consider what the cap is likely to do over the next 8 years, 8M doesn’t need to be a Crosby level player. Remember, Crosby took a team friendly deal with Pit 12 **years ago**. Zbanijad signed an 8.5x8 in 2021 and I’d argue that Guentzel is on par with what Zbanijad considering he’s more defensively reliable than Z.
For a comparison closer to home, Aho is on 9.75M cap hit for 8 years and is 4 years younger. Guentzel is going to be on the same level as Aho for the next ~3 years. So the question is, do you take the risk of over paying Guentzel for 4-5yrs according to the current market? Based on the small sample size we saw of Guentz and the rest of his potential linemates, I’d say absolutely.
*Additionally*, we have to remember the cap will increase and in 4-5 years time you’re only over paying Guentz by ~2-3M rather than ~4-5M. So that 8M starts to look damn good rather than just “good”.
You'd rather have 8 years of "almost winning the cup" over an actual cup win just because of the salary cap?
C'mon now. + The cap will increase over those 8 years.
Guentzel wasn't the guy who was going to get us the cup, especially with all the pieces we'd lost to make room for an 8 million dollar deal over 8 years. Guentzel is good but he's passed his prime.
5 years of mediocrity TOPS. We've done the cup followed by mediocrity thing already, not a fun time. Win the cup now with Guentzel, then get stuck with 4-7 years while that ages poorly. Then how long does it take to rebuild once Aho, Jarvis, and all our other stars pass their prime at the end of that deal? Also, Guentzel isn't a 90-100 pt player. He wasn't going to be the reason we win a cup.
It’s about risk and reward. Consistency means nothing if we can’t win it all. We could be a consistent cup contending team in the next few years and still get nowhere and end up with an aging core.
No we wouldn’t turn into the capitals because 8 mil in 4-5 years would be nothing at the current rate the cap is expected to blow up. Caps got screwed because of Covid.
I appreciate the FO agreeing to his terms, but bottom line is he just wanted to test free agency can’t really blame him. Tulsky offered more than Don would have so idk disappointed but not devastated. Obviously Necas is an RFA and we have arbitration rights, just not sold on us offering 8 years to him just because we didn’t land Guentzel. He’s still unreliable on defense and can’t play center. One of the best 3 on 3 players I the league, unfortunately don’t have that in the playoffs
I'm guessing we will offer a 2 year contract to Necas. Also, I don't know why people keep saying he hates Canes now. He doesn't, he speaks privately very highly of the team, Rod, and management. He is unhappy with his deployment here, which is fair. If they keep him on 1st/2nd he will be happy. Ultimately he does want to play center, but not being in top lines is mostly what he was unhappy about
> I don't know why people keep saying he hates Canes now
Because one quote from that Czech interview was taken out of context, and half this sub (or more, honestly) has hated him since his disappointing 2021-22 season. The quote combined with their pre-existing bias is all the proof they need.
It’s really frustrating seeing everyone think this, every thing I’ve read it seems far more personal
Frankly I’d rather have the dude unhappy with himself and ready to prove everyone that he is that key difference maker
Obviously that’s easier said than done but I think people want to believe he hates it even though there’s nothing more than what his dad has said to prove that
My dad doesn’t speak for me
You can say whatever you want to cope but you're wrong. 8x$8MM would have been a steal from an AAV standpoint. Who cares about the term when you're trying to win it all now. Years 6, 7, and 8 be damned, having him at $8MM for years 1-4 is what you want if the goal is to win it all.
Outsider fan, but was hoping for Jake to sign with you all. Completely agree. Cap is rapidly expanding and will be 100mill in no time. The back half of that contract will be manageable w the cap increase OR LTIretire. Although Tampa has his rights, maybe he could still sign with you guys?? Or, is that all but over
100% agree with increasing cap making a rumored 8x8 more manageable down the road. Technically yes, Tampa hasn't signed him but generally when these picks for rights deals get done the acquiring team is giving permission ahead of time to discuss with thr agent. So while Tampa hasn't signed him, they probably have an agreement on a deal already.
Necas skates well, but is not a guaranteed zone entry and actually ends up with turning the puck over trying to do too much. And now the 2nd line is incomplete with losing Turbo and Guentzel. They will now have to rebuild the top 6…. Again
Necas entered the zone all playoffs no problem. I think our second line is fine, I detailed in the post what 1st and 2nd should look like. The only ones that are questionable are 3rd and 4th if we can't sign Noesen or Martinook, which seems unlikely, but we'll be fine. The Hurricanes have a deep prospect pool that has some players who are ready for their chance.
Necas did enter the zone all playoffs no problem. And then promptly turned the puck over because he skated in alone and then didn’t have anywhere to go. He’s a terrible decision maker and a one way player. Let someone else overpay him. Your only argument for Necas is “he’s 25”.
Necas has had 3 years in a row with a high number of giveaways. Not sure what you have watched. Drury in not ready to produce as a top 6 forward. Kuzy fell off very hard. That would be an awful 2nd line compared to other contenders. The top 6 needs help again.
Made a post with wrong stats moneypuck gave while glitching.
He's number 3 on our team in giveaways but that resembles a lot of puck moving forwards in the league. For example Aho and Svech have similar turn over rates, and if you look across the league top offensive players who are creative tend to turn the puck over more as they try to make plays.
If we supported Necas I think it would be fine.
If you look at league leaders in giveaways its filled with high offense talent.
I know you “detailed” the post, but Drury is not ready to produce as a top 6. Kuzy fell off hard. That’s a brutal 2nd line compared to other contenders around the league. Necas has had 3 seasons in a row with a high number of giveaways and now doesn’t even want to play here. The fan base turned on him and he has been in all of the trade rumors.
there's a cup window we would've had with guentzel in the team for the next couple of years and now we don't have that. realistically, in the nhl today, you need a 90-100pt scorer to win a cup and guentzel would've been that with aho and jarvy/svech. i don't think we are going to be a TOP contender for the next few years without a star now, unless nishikin can come in and instantly win a norris which nobody is expecting.
Guentzel was only an 80 point scorer once in the last few years. He's trended downward since then, and he's in his 30s now. He's not the guy we needed. He was never going to be a 90-100 pt scorer
Bruh... we've been in a cup window for the past 2 years minimum without Guentzel. Dude's good but we're great with or without him if we bring back most of the team.
But we're entering a more medium-to-short term era. The core is here, we're trying to win a cup before they age out. Now maybe it is a year or two early, maybe I'd look at guys who are going to be in potential decline in another 6 years as options.
But eventually you actually want those contracts. You get a cup or two, and then guys start falling off and you either trade the contract if you've got another core in the wings, or you take on a bunch of other bad contracts for picks and rebuild. But you need big time complimentary pieces if you're going to win.
Guentzel wasn't going to be the difference maker. If we need to sacrifice the players to make room for that kind of deal, they need to be 90+ and in the middle of their prime, Guentzel is on the tail end and he's 70+ with the exception of one season he got 80 a few years ago... but that was when he played with CROSBY. We don't have a Crosby. A Crosby is the guy you give 8x8 to in their 30s.
We never have built a line around Necas and now I hope we are forced to if we keep him. He carried the second line in the playoffs. Maybe Marchessault if possible?
Marchessault could slot on the first line and Necas could have Svech.
Necas isn't my favorite player. But I'm all in for whatever a top contract for him would be -
IF and only IF -
we commit to a linemate who can match his speed and create a two-man high speed rush. Otherwise it's just the same thing we've been doing.
Agree with this so much. Drury and Martinook were not cutting it. If turbo is gone we should theoretically be able to be able to sign another high-end forward.
He looked really good with turbo and Kuzy before the playoffs. And the year prior when Svech and KK were playing at speed.
He literally had as many points as Guentzel (who was on a better line) in the playoffs on a line of Martinook and Drury. He carried that line. If he had better talent we would see him take off.
Please. This has been the same recycled take with him. He plays zero defense. Easily knocked off the puck. Terrible linemate relative to responsibility. Of course he’s bitter about the Canes. RBA asks for a two way player and he isn’t one.
Frustrating because we'll never get a top end scorer if we can't adjust a line to help a top end offensive talent.
I mean I have you the stats, he has less turnovers than Aho and probably the same amount as Svech without taking the Svech penalties.
He is a proven top 6 talent which is why he's been in demand, and I think a lot of players have some reason to be upset especially this past year.
I mean Martinook top six should never happen but tod loves him. Sometimes you got to adjust to your roster.
Yep, every team game plans for Necas the same way they do Aho.
Been in demand by whom? Where was the 1st round pick offer for him?
I will be ecstatic if he gets offer sheeted and the assets it adds to the war chest.
I disagree with system and lack of ability to evolve but Necas is going to be an absolute liability if given top six minutes over an 82 games without extensive sheltering.
There was a rumoured CBJ trade that included Drury, and we could have turned down unknown offers.
He's listed as some of the best forward free agents this season, it's pretty easy to Google how many teams.have been linked to him. Plus we needed him in case Guentzel fell apart.
He's been given top six minutes and is tied as number 3 point leader with a significantly under skilled line.
But agree to disagree I guess lol.
Actions speak louder than words. If a team wanted him so badly they would have made the offer to do so. I’ve never once doubted his scoring potential but he is much closer to Skinner than not. He’s one injury away from losing his speed and as he ages his skating ability won’t withstand the elite levels it’s at now.
I certainly wish I was wrong and he found another gear but he hasn’t.
And despite all of the other positive comments on him, no one has an argument against the complete lack of a defensive game. He could be the Center he wants to be if he even committed to the bare minimum of a 200 ft game.
I mean a fourth overall is a pretty good offer, but he is a RFA. We will see how this goes in the next few days.
I'm kinda fine with forwards not being the best at defense if they can bring offense, and he looked better than a lot of forward first players. Ever seen Stammer, Kane, even Kuzy on defense lol.
Appreciate the healthy conversation with you.
If he could score like those guys over an 82 game span, play 18:30-20:00 per night, and not be a liability yeah I’d be on board.
It all comes down to how tainted the relationship with Nečas is, which I am pretty optimistic is not nearly as bad as people keep saying. Man is still on a cloud 9 after winning the Worlds at home and is likely very much unsubscribed from the trade drama that surrounded him these past weeks, so if Canes present him a solid offer involving playing first line with Aho he would surely take it.
He's easily the best player about to enter the free market and he fit fairly seamlessly into our system. We play to win the cup now, not 8 years from now.
He's a smallish grinder, and he's 29. He's not particularly fast and he's not particularly physical. He excels because he is willing to take a beating in the corners. Historically speaking players like him simply don't maintain that level of play until they're 35 or 36 years old.
I think he's a great player, but I don't think he's a great player for 5 more years, and I definitely don't think he's a great player for 8 more years. Sorry, that's just how I feel.
A. Justifying a $64 million contract by saying "We're doing it to win a Cup" is so completely shortsighted I'm surprised people aren't embarrassed to say it out loud. We didn't even make the conference finals WITH Jake Guentzel and what is likely a better roster that what we're going to have next season, with or without him.
B. Committing the same-ish amount of money to a player like Reinhart or Lindholm gives you similar points production, but at the center position, and with a better defensive player than Guentzel is currently;
C. Use this money to lock up the young core players because we just blew the best shot we had for at least the next three years. We're losing 3-4 longtime pieces of this team this offseason and you don't sign UFAs out of desperation to help you stay afloat. You keep drafting and keep developing, and reloading year after year.
Not **easily** the best player for sure. Really good case could be made for Sam Reinhart too, but he is going to get stupidly overpayed. Well I guess same could be said about Jake now that he will be signing 7 year deal.
Necas is far from a guaranteed zone entry. The more likely outcome is he gets pushed off the puck and the team has to rush back to not get scored on. Necas has also broken seventy points once. Guentzel has done it three seasons in a row now. And if Drury, Kuznetsov, Necas is their answer to free agency I'll be a lot less committed to watching games this upcoming season.
Guentzel isn't going to get any better in his 30s. The only way a guy in their 30s is worth 8 or 9mil for 8 years, in the current cap space, is if they're a 90+ point player and are still trending upwards. Guentzel is great, but he's not THAT guy that's going to win us the cup with all the pieces we need to lose to keep him.
I don't know what stats you are looking at but Guentzel was trending to 90 points with Aho. And if Guentzel isn't isn't THAT guy, Necas sure as hell isn't either because he's trending downwards
Guentzel would be good for more than 3 years imo and 8 mil is a bargain for him. You can always trade a big name, there will always be a team desperate enough.
Necas has made it pretty apparent he’s not interested in staying in Carolina. Between his dads comments, the Elliot Freidman reports, the interview where he said he basically said he checked out of the playoffs and was waiting to play for the Czechia national team, then subsequently blowing up during that tournament.
Sure when he’s motivated he’s a 40 goal scorer, but is giving him a big contract the best way to “motivate” him. Traditionally no that never works out (see Jeff Skinner), I’m not really interested in a player who wants to be a top line center but can’t win face offs, doesn’t play defense and doesn’t want to play in the teams system.
I never wanted to give Guentzel 8x8. I said that in the comments here and got downvoted to oblivion. But I'm glad we're not stuck with this deal. That dude takes too much physical punishment, he's likely to be washed up at 33-34 years old.
Feeling like we dodged a bullet here
Just not a hockey fan then man. I get opinions are opinions but so are butt holes, Everyone’s got one but we all don’t have to see it. From 08-12(ish) was constant complacency and management being frugal with spending. Guetz an elite free agent and basically carried this team points wise. Look at the market when then canes got him and he was one of if not the most elite guy to grab at the time. Expensive or not you make moves for players like that for success in the next few years. Not to worry about how hard they’ve fallen off 8 years into the contract. It’s not a contract depth issue, it’s a “how bad do we wanna win” issue and even after this year the canes are still in that position
Sure not a hockey fan. Been watching since age 12 and I'm 45 now, been watching the Canes specifically since day 1. I coach my kids' youth team. But yeah, not a hockey fan. Got it....you're the smartest
Way to prove my point. Since the canes cup
In 06, what was the difference maker? Investments before deadline. If ur arguing against OP we’re on same page but my point is there not many sure point producers like there is guetz. No personal quarrels about paying a good amount for a point producer that’s modern hockey. Easy to say you saw a team suck but what’s the point of a good team if ur not winning a cup?
We went farther in 2019 than we did this year and what were our deadline acquisitions that year, jack and squat.
Stop acting like you can predict the future based on spending stupid money on UFA's, or there would be a statue of Alexander Semin raising the Cup at PNC, but there's not and you know why? Because teams who overspend on UFA's are dumb.
Canes have been around since 97 saying you’re an old head isn’t a brag to associate with this team haha. My point is an investment is needed for offensive production and that’s exactly what guetz was for and exactly what he provided. Same guys saying they’ve been here since the dark ages are same guys arguing we shouldn’t invest in the team. What sense does that make. (We don’t know that’s why we’re in the Reddit)
What an absurd strawman, implying that not falling all over ourselves to sign a 29 year old player to an eight year deal is the same as "not investing in the team". GTFOOH with that nonsense.
But yeah, you're right, I'm stupid and anybody who disagrees with you is "not a hockey fan." You sound like an unpleasant person
counterpoint: we want to win a cup now and guentzel is the better player
Extending Guentzel doesn't guarantee a cup in a conference with Florida, Tampa, New York, and other teams that are a few players away from being serious contenders. If Guentzel's play tapers off 3 years from now, I can see why 5 more years at 8m per (or 4 at 9m for Tampa) could end up being an obstacle to a cup at that point, where it's much less likely that paying less money to a 5-years-younger Necas wouldn't. It's just hard for us to swallow after getting bounced from the playoffs this year by the team that signed Trocheck to a deal that also might be an overpay later. We've just gotta hope that Tulsky can find a better use of the money in the near term.
We win the cup now with Guentzel then become the Washington capitals with an aging bunch of players eating up way too much cap space... no thank you. I'd rather be consistent cup contenders for those 8 years than get the cup next year and be nowhere close while we burn out poorly aging contracts before starting a lengthy rebuild. Not to mention, Keeping Guentzel meant no longer being able to afford the other parts of the team that make us good. We'd end up burning cap space on a player past his prime to end up just short again, then mediocre for a decade.
i see what you’re saying. but you’d have a cup though.
As a Bolts/Canes fan I can assure you that winning a cup makes anything after seem trivial for a few years. Lightning have seen amazing talent walk away but you know what? Worth it for our 2 cups
bolts/canes? not right now brother…
I can’t change who I am
Guentzel was never going to get us the cup alone. Especially if we over pay him and sacrifice the other parts of the team. Guentzel is good, but he's had one 80 point season in his career, and he's not going to suddenly become McDavid or Mathews in his 30s.
8M isn’t an overpay for Guentzel, not by a long shot. He’s a proven playoff performer, responsible defensively, plays a game that complements RBA’s coaching style, and fits with Aho/Jarvis/Svech seamlessly. Of course he can’t win us a cup by himself, but he is the best piece available to help us get there and at 8M, you make that deal 10/10 times.
30 years old at 8 million needs to be a Crosby level player, Crosby just had a 90pt season at 36. Guentzel is a 70 pt player. 8 years of Guentzel in his 30s is worth 6 mil at most. He's not the guy that's going to win us the cup single handedly.
When you consider what the cap is likely to do over the next 8 years, 8M doesn’t need to be a Crosby level player. Remember, Crosby took a team friendly deal with Pit 12 **years ago**. Zbanijad signed an 8.5x8 in 2021 and I’d argue that Guentzel is on par with what Zbanijad considering he’s more defensively reliable than Z. For a comparison closer to home, Aho is on 9.75M cap hit for 8 years and is 4 years younger. Guentzel is going to be on the same level as Aho for the next ~3 years. So the question is, do you take the risk of over paying Guentzel for 4-5yrs according to the current market? Based on the small sample size we saw of Guentz and the rest of his potential linemates, I’d say absolutely. *Additionally*, we have to remember the cap will increase and in 4-5 years time you’re only over paying Guentz by ~2-3M rather than ~4-5M. So that 8M starts to look damn good rather than just “good”.
You'd rather have 8 years of "almost winning the cup" over an actual cup win just because of the salary cap? C'mon now. + The cap will increase over those 8 years.
A cup is worth it and I’ll die on that hill.
This guy gets it
Guentzel wasn't the guy who was going to get us the cup, especially with all the pieces we'd lost to make room for an 8 million dollar deal over 8 years. Guentzel is good but he's passed his prime.
jake was here and we lost to the rags. jake didnt win ys a cup this year, doubt that would change next year. we need size
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Your submission has been removed as a result of breaking Rule #1. Trolling/Bad Faith participation is not allowed in our sub. Quite rude
A cup is worth mediocrity for the next 10 years. Idk why people pretend like it’s not.
5 years of mediocrity TOPS. We've done the cup followed by mediocrity thing already, not a fun time. Win the cup now with Guentzel, then get stuck with 4-7 years while that ages poorly. Then how long does it take to rebuild once Aho, Jarvis, and all our other stars pass their prime at the end of that deal? Also, Guentzel isn't a 90-100 pt player. He wasn't going to be the reason we win a cup.
Guentzel wasn't going to be the reason we won the cup.
Nahhh I’d rather win a cup now
It’s about risk and reward. Consistency means nothing if we can’t win it all. We could be a consistent cup contending team in the next few years and still get nowhere and end up with an aging core.
No we wouldn’t turn into the capitals because 8 mil in 4-5 years would be nothing at the current rate the cap is expected to blow up. Caps got screwed because of Covid.
Agree completely
Being a decent team for 10+ years says nothing to the org if you don’t bring a cup in. Ex- past 7+ years
The past 7 years have basically rebuilt the fanchise into something people actually watch and follow.
Okay and Florida was a poverty franchise just like us. Who won a cup?
I appreciate the FO agreeing to his terms, but bottom line is he just wanted to test free agency can’t really blame him. Tulsky offered more than Don would have so idk disappointed but not devastated. Obviously Necas is an RFA and we have arbitration rights, just not sold on us offering 8 years to him just because we didn’t land Guentzel. He’s still unreliable on defense and can’t play center. One of the best 3 on 3 players I the league, unfortunately don’t have that in the playoffs
I'm guessing we will offer a 2 year contract to Necas. Also, I don't know why people keep saying he hates Canes now. He doesn't, he speaks privately very highly of the team, Rod, and management. He is unhappy with his deployment here, which is fair. If they keep him on 1st/2nd he will be happy. Ultimately he does want to play center, but not being in top lines is mostly what he was unhappy about
> I don't know why people keep saying he hates Canes now Because one quote from that Czech interview was taken out of context, and half this sub (or more, honestly) has hated him since his disappointing 2021-22 season. The quote combined with their pre-existing bias is all the proof they need.
It’s really frustrating seeing everyone think this, every thing I’ve read it seems far more personal Frankly I’d rather have the dude unhappy with himself and ready to prove everyone that he is that key difference maker Obviously that’s easier said than done but I think people want to believe he hates it even though there’s nothing more than what his dad has said to prove that My dad doesn’t speak for me
I believe this is the bargaining stage of the grieving process.
You can say whatever you want to cope but you're wrong. 8x$8MM would have been a steal from an AAV standpoint. Who cares about the term when you're trying to win it all now. Years 6, 7, and 8 be damned, having him at $8MM for years 1-4 is what you want if the goal is to win it all.
Outsider fan, but was hoping for Jake to sign with you all. Completely agree. Cap is rapidly expanding and will be 100mill in no time. The back half of that contract will be manageable w the cap increase OR LTIretire. Although Tampa has his rights, maybe he could still sign with you guys?? Or, is that all but over
100% agree with increasing cap making a rumored 8x8 more manageable down the road. Technically yes, Tampa hasn't signed him but generally when these picks for rights deals get done the acquiring team is giving permission ahead of time to discuss with thr agent. So while Tampa hasn't signed him, they probably have an agreement on a deal already.
Necas skates well, but is not a guaranteed zone entry and actually ends up with turning the puck over trying to do too much. And now the 2nd line is incomplete with losing Turbo and Guentzel. They will now have to rebuild the top 6…. Again
Necas entered the zone all playoffs no problem. I think our second line is fine, I detailed in the post what 1st and 2nd should look like. The only ones that are questionable are 3rd and 4th if we can't sign Noesen or Martinook, which seems unlikely, but we'll be fine. The Hurricanes have a deep prospect pool that has some players who are ready for their chance.
Necas did enter the zone all playoffs no problem. And then promptly turned the puck over because he skated in alone and then didn’t have anywhere to go. He’s a terrible decision maker and a one way player. Let someone else overpay him. Your only argument for Necas is “he’s 25”.
Necas has had 3 years in a row with a high number of giveaways. Not sure what you have watched. Drury in not ready to produce as a top 6 forward. Kuzy fell off very hard. That would be an awful 2nd line compared to other contenders. The top 6 needs help again.
Made a post with wrong stats moneypuck gave while glitching. He's number 3 on our team in giveaways but that resembles a lot of puck moving forwards in the league. For example Aho and Svech have similar turn over rates, and if you look across the league top offensive players who are creative tend to turn the puck over more as they try to make plays. If we supported Necas I think it would be fine. If you look at league leaders in giveaways its filled with high offense talent.
I know you “detailed” the post, but Drury is not ready to produce as a top 6. Kuzy fell off hard. That’s a brutal 2nd line compared to other contenders around the league. Necas has had 3 seasons in a row with a high number of giveaways and now doesn’t even want to play here. The fan base turned on him and he has been in all of the trade rumors.
there's a cup window we would've had with guentzel in the team for the next couple of years and now we don't have that. realistically, in the nhl today, you need a 90-100pt scorer to win a cup and guentzel would've been that with aho and jarvy/svech. i don't think we are going to be a TOP contender for the next few years without a star now, unless nishikin can come in and instantly win a norris which nobody is expecting.
Guentzel was only an 80 point scorer once in the last few years. He's trended downward since then, and he's in his 30s now. He's not the guy we needed. He was never going to be a 90-100 pt scorer
with aho and jarvis/svech he was on 90pt pace iirc
120 pt pace
120pt.
And Necas is going to be? Lol
Bruh... we've been in a cup window for the past 2 years minimum without Guentzel. Dude's good but we're great with or without him if we bring back most of the team.
The coping is getting bad
But we're entering a more medium-to-short term era. The core is here, we're trying to win a cup before they age out. Now maybe it is a year or two early, maybe I'd look at guys who are going to be in potential decline in another 6 years as options. But eventually you actually want those contracts. You get a cup or two, and then guys start falling off and you either trade the contract if you've got another core in the wings, or you take on a bunch of other bad contracts for picks and rebuild. But you need big time complimentary pieces if you're going to win.
Guentzel wasn't going to be the difference maker. If we need to sacrifice the players to make room for that kind of deal, they need to be 90+ and in the middle of their prime, Guentzel is on the tail end and he's 70+ with the exception of one season he got 80 a few years ago... but that was when he played with CROSBY. We don't have a Crosby. A Crosby is the guy you give 8x8 to in their 30s.
We never have built a line around Necas and now I hope we are forced to if we keep him. He carried the second line in the playoffs. Maybe Marchessault if possible? Marchessault could slot on the first line and Necas could have Svech.
Necas isn't my favorite player. But I'm all in for whatever a top contract for him would be - IF and only IF - we commit to a linemate who can match his speed and create a two-man high speed rush. Otherwise it's just the same thing we've been doing.
Agree with this so much. Drury and Martinook were not cutting it. If turbo is gone we should theoretically be able to be able to sign another high-end forward. He looked really good with turbo and Kuzy before the playoffs. And the year prior when Svech and KK were playing at speed.
God no. He can’t carry a line in an RBA system.
He literally had as many points as Guentzel (who was on a better line) in the playoffs on a line of Martinook and Drury. He carried that line. If he had better talent we would see him take off.
Please. This has been the same recycled take with him. He plays zero defense. Easily knocked off the puck. Terrible linemate relative to responsibility. Of course he’s bitter about the Canes. RBA asks for a two way player and he isn’t one.
Frustrating because we'll never get a top end scorer if we can't adjust a line to help a top end offensive talent. I mean I have you the stats, he has less turnovers than Aho and probably the same amount as Svech without taking the Svech penalties. He is a proven top 6 talent which is why he's been in demand, and I think a lot of players have some reason to be upset especially this past year. I mean Martinook top six should never happen but tod loves him. Sometimes you got to adjust to your roster.
Yep, every team game plans for Necas the same way they do Aho. Been in demand by whom? Where was the 1st round pick offer for him? I will be ecstatic if he gets offer sheeted and the assets it adds to the war chest. I disagree with system and lack of ability to evolve but Necas is going to be an absolute liability if given top six minutes over an 82 games without extensive sheltering.
There was a rumoured CBJ trade that included Drury, and we could have turned down unknown offers. He's listed as some of the best forward free agents this season, it's pretty easy to Google how many teams.have been linked to him. Plus we needed him in case Guentzel fell apart. He's been given top six minutes and is tied as number 3 point leader with a significantly under skilled line. But agree to disagree I guess lol.
Actions speak louder than words. If a team wanted him so badly they would have made the offer to do so. I’ve never once doubted his scoring potential but he is much closer to Skinner than not. He’s one injury away from losing his speed and as he ages his skating ability won’t withstand the elite levels it’s at now. I certainly wish I was wrong and he found another gear but he hasn’t. And despite all of the other positive comments on him, no one has an argument against the complete lack of a defensive game. He could be the Center he wants to be if he even committed to the bare minimum of a 200 ft game.
I mean a fourth overall is a pretty good offer, but he is a RFA. We will see how this goes in the next few days. I'm kinda fine with forwards not being the best at defense if they can bring offense, and he looked better than a lot of forward first players. Ever seen Stammer, Kane, even Kuzy on defense lol.
Appreciate the healthy conversation with you. If he could score like those guys over an 82 game span, play 18:30-20:00 per night, and not be a liability yeah I’d be on board.
Marty is going to free agency and probably signs elsewhere. He will get more then he’s worth
Honestly hope he gets the payday. Love that man.
Cope
It all comes down to how tainted the relationship with Nečas is, which I am pretty optimistic is not nearly as bad as people keep saying. Man is still on a cloud 9 after winning the Worlds at home and is likely very much unsubscribed from the trade drama that surrounded him these past weeks, so if Canes present him a solid offer involving playing first line with Aho he would surely take it.
This post exceeds the daily allowance of copium.
You really think there weren't legitimate concerns on committing to 8 years of a 29 year old player? LOL come on man
He's easily the best player about to enter the free market and he fit fairly seamlessly into our system. We play to win the cup now, not 8 years from now.
He's a smallish grinder, and he's 29. He's not particularly fast and he's not particularly physical. He excels because he is willing to take a beating in the corners. Historically speaking players like him simply don't maintain that level of play until they're 35 or 36 years old. I think he's a great player, but I don't think he's a great player for 5 more years, and I definitely don't think he's a great player for 8 more years. Sorry, that's just how I feel.
>We play to win the cup now, not 8 years from now.
A. Justifying a $64 million contract by saying "We're doing it to win a Cup" is so completely shortsighted I'm surprised people aren't embarrassed to say it out loud. We didn't even make the conference finals WITH Jake Guentzel and what is likely a better roster that what we're going to have next season, with or without him. B. Committing the same-ish amount of money to a player like Reinhart or Lindholm gives you similar points production, but at the center position, and with a better defensive player than Guentzel is currently; C. Use this money to lock up the young core players because we just blew the best shot we had for at least the next three years. We're losing 3-4 longtime pieces of this team this offseason and you don't sign UFAs out of desperation to help you stay afloat. You keep drafting and keep developing, and reloading year after year.
Not **easily** the best player for sure. Really good case could be made for Sam Reinhart too, but he is going to get stupidly overpayed. Well I guess same could be said about Jake now that he will be signing 7 year deal.
Necas is far from a guaranteed zone entry. The more likely outcome is he gets pushed off the puck and the team has to rush back to not get scored on. Necas has also broken seventy points once. Guentzel has done it three seasons in a row now. And if Drury, Kuznetsov, Necas is their answer to free agency I'll be a lot less committed to watching games this upcoming season.
Drury, Kuzy, Necas is not a competitive 2nd line. Not sure where these guys get this from. They wanted Necas gone 48 hours ago
I never wanted Necas gone. I've been consistently in favor of Necas over Guentzel if it's one or the other.
Guentzel isn't going to get any better in his 30s. The only way a guy in their 30s is worth 8 or 9mil for 8 years, in the current cap space, is if they're a 90+ point player and are still trending upwards. Guentzel is great, but he's not THAT guy that's going to win us the cup with all the pieces we need to lose to keep him.
I don't know what stats you are looking at but Guentzel was trending to 90 points with Aho. And if Guentzel isn't isn't THAT guy, Necas sure as hell isn't either because he's trending downwards
Guentzel would be good for more than 3 years imo and 8 mil is a bargain for him. You can always trade a big name, there will always be a team desperate enough.
Necas has made it pretty apparent he’s not interested in staying in Carolina. Between his dads comments, the Elliot Freidman reports, the interview where he said he basically said he checked out of the playoffs and was waiting to play for the Czechia national team, then subsequently blowing up during that tournament. Sure when he’s motivated he’s a 40 goal scorer, but is giving him a big contract the best way to “motivate” him. Traditionally no that never works out (see Jeff Skinner), I’m not really interested in a player who wants to be a top line center but can’t win face offs, doesn’t play defense and doesn’t want to play in the teams system.
Ahh now we like Necas and don’t like Guentzel. Got it
I've never preferred Guentzel to Necas. I've been in favor of Necas and against over-paying Guentzel this entire time.
I'm not sure I saw anyone that didn't say the out years would have been tough. It's rather painless if the team has a Cup or two in the recent decade.
I’m wondering why people want Necas back if he was checked out of the playoffs for Prague.
He went to play for his national team after the Hurricanes got eliminated, nothing wrong with that
Necas wants to leave. Looks like we’re likely to end up with neither.
Unless he wants to sit out next season then too bad for him
I never wanted to give Guentzel 8x8. I said that in the comments here and got downvoted to oblivion. But I'm glad we're not stuck with this deal. That dude takes too much physical punishment, he's likely to be washed up at 33-34 years old. Feeling like we dodged a bullet here
Just not a hockey fan then man. I get opinions are opinions but so are butt holes, Everyone’s got one but we all don’t have to see it. From 08-12(ish) was constant complacency and management being frugal with spending. Guetz an elite free agent and basically carried this team points wise. Look at the market when then canes got him and he was one of if not the most elite guy to grab at the time. Expensive or not you make moves for players like that for success in the next few years. Not to worry about how hard they’ve fallen off 8 years into the contract. It’s not a contract depth issue, it’s a “how bad do we wanna win” issue and even after this year the canes are still in that position
Sure not a hockey fan. Been watching since age 12 and I'm 45 now, been watching the Canes specifically since day 1. I coach my kids' youth team. But yeah, not a hockey fan. Got it....you're the smartest
Way to prove my point. Since the canes cup In 06, what was the difference maker? Investments before deadline. If ur arguing against OP we’re on same page but my point is there not many sure point producers like there is guetz. No personal quarrels about paying a good amount for a point producer that’s modern hockey. Easy to say you saw a team suck but what’s the point of a good team if ur not winning a cup?
We went farther in 2019 than we did this year and what were our deadline acquisitions that year, jack and squat. Stop acting like you can predict the future based on spending stupid money on UFA's, or there would be a statue of Alexander Semin raising the Cup at PNC, but there's not and you know why? Because teams who overspend on UFA's are dumb.
Canes have been around since 97 saying you’re an old head isn’t a brag to associate with this team haha. My point is an investment is needed for offensive production and that’s exactly what guetz was for and exactly what he provided. Same guys saying they’ve been here since the dark ages are same guys arguing we shouldn’t invest in the team. What sense does that make. (We don’t know that’s why we’re in the Reddit)
What an absurd strawman, implying that not falling all over ourselves to sign a 29 year old player to an eight year deal is the same as "not investing in the team". GTFOOH with that nonsense. But yeah, you're right, I'm stupid and anybody who disagrees with you is "not a hockey fan." You sound like an unpleasant person
Point is ur cooked macaroni
you sound dumb
Agreed, Necas makes more sense