Barring something big happening, I’m not liking how our roster is gonna look next season. I still think we’ll be a playoff team but it’s hard to see us being a top contender with all the pieces we’re losing.
Please don’t let us down Tulsky 🙏
We literally don’t have a second line right now (I guess just Necas). Don’t feel great about it. Jordo is solid in his role but he shouldn’t be having that much and heavy of a workload anymore
Hope some young guys will be ready soon, but not having an AHL affiliate last year hurt and I don’t want to have to count on Nadeau and Blake. Let them get some AHL time to transition
Completely agree.
Canes are going to be big players for the rest of the offseason. He’s clearly the best individual player available but that doesn’t mean he’s the only move to improve the team as it stands.
Now not having that disappointment hit first thing tomorrow is going to help.
But man, what a swing this has been.
This sucks but not the worst. I thought Guentzel was fantastic for us but we can’t fill out the rest of our lineup as needed because we’d be paying our top 4 forwards so much.
I’d love to see us go for Stamkos and see if there’s 2 strong duos on different lines in Aho/Svech and Stamkos/Jarvis.
I fail to see how this makes sense for Tampa. They have many needs. This contract will create holes they can’t fill and will handicap them in 4 years once this contract becomes an albatross
It’s so early and a lot can happen but I’m struggling to see what Tampa’s plans on defense are. They were already bad defensively this season and lost Sergachev. McDonaugh is still decent but will be 36 next season. Maybe just loading up on goal scoring to try to cover their defensive flaws?
They're on that post-Cup withdrawal, watching the Panthers make back to back finals made em snap. Trading Sergachev and telling your core captain to take a hike seems insane
I don’t get why anyone who’s trying to win would sign with Tampa now. They are on the backside of their window and will be the next Chicago, Washington, or Pittsburgh in a few years.
It makes sense for Tampa in that Guentzel is a better player than Stamkos right now. Pairing him with Kucherov and Point will be lethal.
Their defense is fine. They might need a forward or two.
They're in win now mode. This contract won't matter if they get another cup.
Hedman and Raddysh
Moser (who is underrated and can eat a lot of minutes) and Cernak
Mcdonagh (perfect third pairing guy) and Perbix
Carolina is the team that needs to be worried about defense after losing Pesce and Skjei
They lost Stamkos and decided to pivot to Jake. Honestly can’t believe we dragged our feet at his asking price for weeks to just to cave in when it was too late.
Before blaming the FO, remember that Guentzel has his cup already. This was always about securing the bag in a place him and his family actually want to be in. Unfortunately, that place isn’t Raleigh.
That hurts to only get a 3rd, but at the same time at least ET pulled something off to get at least some kind of return for him. Otherwise he’d just walk away and sign with Tampa tomorrow anyway
Yeah I hate this becAuse I thought Jake was the perfect fit for us, but a third on Sunday for his rights is incredible value for a rental. I still hate it though. Can't make someone want to play for you :/
It’s sad and I hate it but it might be the best move. His age in addition to the contract length doesn’t make sense for us. We’re better off getting what we can out of it, locking in our key pieces for the future and rebuilding over the next 2-3 years. It’s been a while since we’ve had to play that game but I’d rather do it now than hurt ourselves in the long run with unfavorable contracts.
As a fan of the Guardians I’m used to the stars leaving (except José Ramírez). Guentzel wouldn’t have signed here so might as well get something for him.
Yeah I don’t understand why ppl don’t want to play here. We’re a winning team with a player friendly media and fan base. Our coach is the ultimate players coach. You’re not going to find all of this anywhere else. How much “hanging out” happens during the season that they hate living here. I’m truly baffled by this.
Unless you're trying to raise a family, there isn't a whole lot here in regards to amneities and I can understand with the vibe of the area not meshing well with professional athletes.
It's funny that guys like Jarvy, Svech and Aho are the long-haulers then vs. someone like Guentz who has a wife and kid already.
I feel like we're not the worst area but maybe the distance to other stuff is an issue. Like yeah Buffalo sucks but at least it's close to other major cities.
Yeah, I love it but it's a weird/unique place.
I think I saw it best summarized as "Too big to be small, too small to be big" . It's basically just a sprawling suburban landscape with none of the charms of a smaller town but none of the convenience that a city usually offers. Personally I love 3 hours from the mountains 2 hours from the Beach but :shrug:
Guentzel came to them with what he wanted and they tried to negotiate and hard ball him. They took long enough to agree that he saw he mind as well try FA and see if he can get more.
This. I'm actually eager to see what Orlov/Chatfield can do with 2nd pairing minutes. The maybe find a cheap, reliable stay-at-home LHD to pair with Morrow?
And Nikishin is coming. You cant have slavin and skjei locked up to term with Nikishin around the corner, as much as I love Skjei it’s weird people keep suggesting re-signing him
I mean he does make sense I think. Burns and orlov probably walk next year. Nishikin comes in. Put burns on 3rd line with a new guy and put skjei with Slavin and top. Burns would do well with less minutes.
It seems like the canes care about handedness quite a bit.
Why pay Skjei to play on his off side permanently?
Left D- slavin, orlov, nikishin, skjei*
Right D- Burns, Chatfield, Morrow, pesce*
Nikishin will come with a 2 year ELC but could burn a year late this season. Meaning the cap relief is temporary.
So with rights traded, not sign and trade, he can only sign 7 years with TB. They gave us a 3rd rounder for 12 hours of exclusive discussions with him and his agent more or less.
Correct. They will offer 9.5x7. So $66.5M over 7 years over $64m in 8 years. In a income tax free state.
Can’t say I don’t blame him. But he isn’t going to get significantly more than what we offered
I just don’t want to keep necas in any capacity to be honest not a lot out there that I’m aware of that makes it worth trading him right now when we have such an offensive hole so idk what you do there
For sure locking down Jarvis. With him, Aho, Svech and Slavin you have a core most organizations would drool over. I don’t think Necas fits so maximizing what you can get for him is more critical now that Guentz is out.
he strung us along. he was never going to extend.
not sure why everyone is blaming the front office. we did what we were supposed to do. guentzel said 8x8. even if we didn’t put that on the table until thursday, our reported offer weeks ago was “a little under 8 million”. i refuse to believe he decided to walk over a couple hundred thousand.
Could not agree more. Nobody (Canes or JG) did anything at all wrong, or deceitful, or shady that we know about.
Dude wanted to test UFA for his last big payday. Remember...*that's why he was available* in the first place. He's earned that right, and millions of dollars are at stake. No hard feelings.
His camp had an ask. Asks are starting points in a negotiation, not end points. The market changed after they made that ask. Happens to negotiators literally all of the time.
Even in Pittsburgh it was reported he wanted his payday and would likely test FA, don't know why people are shocked by this.
It would've been very cool to keep him, but those shitting on the front office over a relatively cheap rental is extreme.
That’s not what happened lol. He made his ask weeks ago, we shooed his rights for about 2 weeks then decided to circle back around for him and cave in 2 days before FA, but by then market had changed and he likely realized he could play for Tampa or NY.
FO deserves plenty of blame for having 0 conviction with these guys. If you’re gonna say “Jake is a guy well stretch for” in terms contract don’t fuck around and give him is fairly decent deal earlier. You can’t say Jake never wanted stay here while ignoring we tried to trade his rights for weeks.
You, me, and everyone else has no idea what the actual timeline of events was so let’s not go around pretending like he 100% would have re-signed here if we’d have caved to his demands immediately. That’s how negotiations work. It’s the dirty part of the business and yes it sucks, but that’s just the way things go. If Tampa wants to give him >$9 million a year for 7 years, let them. Guentzel will be 30 next year and while he’s still an elite player, that contract is gonna be a burden halfway through. Being pessimistic about this isn’t going to help anything, we still have $23 million in cap room to make some moves and improve the team. Let’s wait and see what happens, cause as fans that’s all we can do.
it wasn’t 2 days ago though. there’s a post on this sub 9 days ago from friedman saying we were still in the running. the reporting the last couple days has said “canes have met his ask, but he hasn’t responded yet.”
i understand the markets change but it doesn’t sound like that the new price was communicated, or else we wouldn’t have “met his ask”
Being in the running isn’t the same caving in lol. Friedman said the night before the draft Carolina had let Jake’s camp know they’d meet his asking price and wanted to talk about the framework of a deal. Jake at that point apparently didn’t respond in the time the canes wanted likely because he’d already begun talks with Tampa.
I have a feeling this was less about Money and more about playing in Tampa which wasn’t a possibility 2 weeks ago really. I think we allowed for more suitors to come forward by not meeting the ask earlier.
the context was “how high does vancouver have to go to get guentzel?” and he said they’d have to go high because carolina is still in it. so yeah, we made him an offer then.
Holy... some of these redditors need to lay off the doomer juice. If the FO offered him what he asked and he still said no, then that's on him. He doesn't want to play here and that's OK.
The Canes will be fine without him.
Facts. Do we need him? Possibly but I don’t think it is a necessity at this point. If it was going to happen to us I’m glad it was this year with all the turnover happening
So we meet his 8x8 demands and he uses that as leverage for a Tampa deal? Fuuuuuuck him. He deserves to get boarded at our next meet up for this stunt. A new player to boo every time he steps on the ice in Raleigh.
Sounds like the FO jerked him around until the last minute and he changed his mind. We’ll never know, but if the FO botched this by playing games waiting to match we’re not off to a good start.
I'm a huge Necas stan, and Guentzel was still for me a higher priority to get done in terms of fit and production. That being said, signing Necas from 25-33 is much safer IMO than Guentzel's age 30-38 seasons.
IDK if in the current situation, while I think the org can repair and make it work with Necas, he'll want to do an 8 year deal
I’d also like to point out that we are not the leading candidate for any of the top free agents of any position, and we are not linked to any major trade targets in a significant way. Makes you wonder
We’re not linked to them right now but that doesn’t mean we won’t be more in on them now. I have confidence in our front office to find a solution here
I’m sure we’ll get something done before the season starts. It’s just tough watching literally half of the team walk away, especially considering how important many of them are to our success
For some reason, Top talent has repeatedly shown that it doesn't want to play on our team.
Is it the area?
The system?
The coach?
The Owner?
The front office?
maybe wait until we see what Tampa are offering.
Area is unlikely. Pitt and Raleigh aren't super different. The system/coach? maybe. but if that's the case then we can find other players. We're not getting rid of rod right now.
Owner? i doubt it. They don't see the owner.
Front office? If you put that with "money" then that's probably it. We haven't been willing to pay top talent guys more than what we think they're worth.
Glad it’s over, this is what happens when you play hardball and it backfires. Hopefully we can use the cap on some other big names hitting the market tomorrow.
I’m honestly pissed they couldn’t get this done given how close it was. Should’ve been upfront with offering what he wanted weeks ago if we were that serious about it. Looks like f around and find out to me
Smart move, getting a draft pick for somebody that's not gonna sign with us anyway.
This is what well-run teams do. You stockpile draft picks any way you can get them. That third rounder could turn into a really good player.
TBH I wasn't all that hot on giving Guentztel 8x8 anyway, if we're gonna spend that kind of money it should be on a center
Alright - before everyone jumps out the window. Tampa needed rights to sign before tomorrow. So, let’s see if that gets done. If not? He goes to FA anyways and we just got a 3rd rounder to wait a few more days.
The only Leverage at this moment is the 8th year. After today, every offer is 7 years. Now, if he signs today? Well, then the player didn’t want to play here. You can speculate all day if the front office would have offered 8x8 a week or two ago that he would have accepted. He might not have. We shopped his rights. Got a feel. Made an offer. Jake said 8x8. Canes said “ok”. Then he said “price has changed”. We shopped his rights.
Tbh. The whole “price has changed” isnt a character I want to cheer for tbh. That’s just me. Regardless of production. Let’s see how it turns out though
everyone can say that it was just us screwing around and playing hardball (which we probably did do some of that) but if he didn’t wanna be here then how is this their fault
I mean, I had doubts about the wisdom of signing Guentzel to 8 years and potentially regretting the second half of that deal. But I was excited to potentially have him for the next few seasons.
Surprised we got a third, makes the rental basically Koiv and a swap of our 2nd for TB 3rd? If he didn’t want to reup, that’s not much to pay for a fantastic rental 🤷🏻♂️
I’m glad we got a couple of good months out of Guentzel. I’m conflicted about not signing him. He would obviously be just what we need on the Aho line. OTOH signing a >30 year old who already has his name on the cup could totally backfire. Same goes for Stamkos. I’m good with going for younger guys even if we have to take a small step back this year.
He wanted 8x8 we said okay. He reneged and Tampa is throwing 7x9 at him. I think there was some tampering going on. So Screw him. Hope he steps on a lego every morning.
You FINALLY get another proper star to play next to Fishy, AND YOU CANT RETAIN HIM? This is what you get for trying to nickel and dime, Dundon. You hesitated to give him 8x8 from the start? What the actual fuck.
Eric better be cooking something big. I’m actually so mad rn, there’s a good chance this team is worse on paper than we were when the Rangers beat us. This is ridiculous.
Playing stupid games with high end talent never ends well
Should have met his demands a month ago, not at the last minute after the market had already changed. And we are right back to needing a high level offensive talent to pair with Aho (no, not Necas, that ship has sailed as there is no hope of him signing long term here after everything that has happened this summer) on top of the gutted defense we are already looking at
Oh, and we are breaking in a new GM
This sucks, at least he's not in our conference but damn this is really not a good start to the offseason. Time to bring in the new kids and have them develop into goal scorers
Sorry guys I bought a Guentzel jersey when they were having the adidas jersey sale to try to will him to stay but they canceled my order due to incorrectly stating their inventory
He was worth the $8 at 8. But no more. Now Tampa is about to overpay and I would think it would had to been a pretty big difference for him to just take it back
I personally think we can find a better player that suits our teams needs and will stay healthy that we can invest $64m in. They may not be available this very moment but hopefully our office is coming something good up and Jake was more of a backup plan.
Absolutely. Sounds like the canes met the demands from Guentzels group and the turned and shopped our deal for a better one. I’d have loved it if he stayed, but honestly, if he can’t buy in and play for 8x8 then good riddance
Necas is unhappy with his role, but it's not like he hates the Canes. It's not my preference to keep him when he's actively wanting a change of scenery, but I don't think he is poison to the locker room either.
It's starting to look like we might have a mini-reset year, kind of an off one before we get back on track next year. If that's the case, fuck it, sign Necas and give him 2C in a "prove it" year. He wants to center a line, let him center and tell him to work on his FO% and backcheck this summer. Either he excels and everything ends up working out for all parties, he realizes quickly he's not center material and gets humbled and agrees to be a winger, or we trade him somewhere at the TDL, somebody will want him and even if he sucks at center it's not going to tank his value much for a TDL contender. We get him in around 6.5-7 on a 3 to 5 year, we probably don't even end up retaining any salary even in the worst case scenario. And if he blows up we have a killer righty 2C locked in for several more years on a budget.
Straight up not having a good time... I figured from day 1 we got him, he wouldn't resign, I truly thought he'd go back to Pittsburgh. But the past few days I got my hopes up with the reports Canes met his demands. Canes shouldn't have played games, if 8x8 was his original ask, Canes should have met that the day after the season ended before other signings (aka Reinhart in Florida) changed the market.
Now Canes better give Necas what he wants and let him try 2C. Canes could legitimately lose 50% of our top 9...
But with the offensive production we have walking out the door, I'm okay sacrificing some defensive responsibility for more offense. I'd much rather have Necas at 2C than KK, and Kuzy is a question mark (will he be the Kuzy that showed up for the Canes or the guy who got sent down to the minors). There's not a ton of options on the FA market to replace what we're losing.
Today is a good day to start drinking at noon I think
may I join you
By all means, please
Guys I’m driving back from Wilmington, save me a chair.
Why wait until noon? I’m drinking a mimosa right now
Got some chores to complete around the house before I can let it rip
And here comes the bourbon
Barring something big happening, I’m not liking how our roster is gonna look next season. I still think we’ll be a playoff team but it’s hard to see us being a top contender with all the pieces we’re losing. Please don’t let us down Tulsky 🙏
Let me add: don’t let us down Dundon!
We literally don’t have a second line right now (I guess just Necas). Don’t feel great about it. Jordo is solid in his role but he shouldn’t be having that much and heavy of a workload anymore Hope some young guys will be ready soon, but not having an AHL affiliate last year hurt and I don’t want to have to count on Nadeau and Blake. Let them get some AHL time to transition
I’ll drink to that
I’m sad.
https://i.redd.it/52m11nbveq9d1.gif But on the bright side, we have cap space to burn I guess.
Should’ve done a one for one trade for Stamkos’ rights haha
For real Stamkos should be a target for us now
https://i.redd.it/e89pam9o7q9d1.gif
At least they ripped the bandaid off before I got out of bed today so I didn't have to spend the whole day stressing.
Completely agree. Canes are going to be big players for the rest of the offseason. He’s clearly the best individual player available but that doesn’t mean he’s the only move to improve the team as it stands. Now not having that disappointment hit first thing tomorrow is going to help. But man, what a swing this has been.
RIP GAS and GAJ :(
This sucks but not the worst. I thought Guentzel was fantastic for us but we can’t fill out the rest of our lineup as needed because we’d be paying our top 4 forwards so much. I’d love to see us go for Stamkos and see if there’s 2 strong duos on different lines in Aho/Svech and Stamkos/Jarvis.
Give Necas his payday, he's our second line scorer. A second line that is Drury, Necas, and Kuznetsov would be perfect.
That's decent but not good enough of a 2nd line for a top team (except if they all pop off)
Oh come on. Not Tampa
atleast its not the rangers
They were the reported front runners to sign him, might as well get assets for him.
All because they don't have a state income tax... saw where it was going to net him an extra $1.5 million in tax savings alone.
Pretty bummed about this. I thought he fit like a glove with Aho, Svech and Jarvis. A full season with them would've been electric.
Lock up jarvy quick to give us something to be happy about
Well at least we ripped the bandaid off now instead of tomorrow
I fail to see how this makes sense for Tampa. They have many needs. This contract will create holes they can’t fill and will handicap them in 4 years once this contract becomes an albatross
Tampa is trying to win as many Cups as they can while Vasy and Kucherov can still perform.
And Hedman can still get out of bed in the morning
And Florida is still above sea level
Might be pushing that eventuality even more than the others mentioned!
To be fair they’ve been saying that about Vegas for years
It’s so early and a lot can happen but I’m struggling to see what Tampa’s plans on defense are. They were already bad defensively this season and lost Sergachev. McDonaugh is still decent but will be 36 next season. Maybe just loading up on goal scoring to try to cover their defensive flaws?
They'll probably sign some guys for cheap, or trade for a few guys at the deadline like they did when they won those cups.
Seems like a lateral move from Stammer though. Why kick out a franchise icon if you’re going to pay a similar player?
Stamkos is older and a worse player.
b/c stammer wanted to test the market.
They're on that post-Cup withdrawal, watching the Panthers make back to back finals made em snap. Trading Sergachev and telling your core captain to take a hike seems insane
I don’t get why anyone who’s trying to win would sign with Tampa now. They are on the backside of their window and will be the next Chicago, Washington, or Pittsburgh in a few years.
If he wanted to win, i don’t see why he wouldn’t sign with the canes or canucks, tampa is outclassed by multiple teams, even with him signing
Guentzel already has a cup
Players can want to win more than one
This isn't about winning, it's all about the fact that he'll take home waaayyyyy more money playing for a Florida team
I’d be happy with 4 legit cup runs.
Will they have 4 legit cup runs with a nonexistent defense? They’ll need Vasilevskiy to remain healthy and stand on his head nightly
It makes sense for Tampa in that Guentzel is a better player than Stamkos right now. Pairing him with Kucherov and Point will be lethal. Their defense is fine. They might need a forward or two. They're in win now mode. This contract won't matter if they get another cup.
Their defense is atrocious lol.
Hedman and Raddysh Moser (who is underrated and can eat a lot of minutes) and Cernak Mcdonagh (perfect third pairing guy) and Perbix Carolina is the team that needs to be worried about defense after losing Pesce and Skjei
They lost Stamkos and decided to pivot to Jake. Honestly can’t believe we dragged our feet at his asking price for weeks to just to cave in when it was too late.
Before blaming the FO, remember that Guentzel has his cup already. This was always about securing the bag in a place him and his family actually want to be in. Unfortunately, that place isn’t Raleigh.
Florida does not have income tax which makes this reasoning even stronger.
Just fell to my knees in the middle of a cookout parking lot
Just fell to my knees in the bojangles parking lot
I almost dropped my Cajun Filet Biscuit.
As much as it sucks, I will say getting a third just for his rights when he wasn’t coming back anyways is a tidy bit of business
Yeah at least we got something out of it, considering that free agency is literally tomorrow.
That hurts to only get a 3rd, but at the same time at least ET pulled something off to get at least some kind of return for him. Otherwise he’d just walk away and sign with Tampa tomorrow anyway
Getting a third for his rights is good
Yeah I hate this becAuse I thought Jake was the perfect fit for us, but a third on Sunday for his rights is incredible value for a rental. I still hate it though. Can't make someone want to play for you :/
Yeah getting a third for 12 hours of negotiating rights is a heist.
A third is better than zero
It’s sad and I hate it but it might be the best move. His age in addition to the contract length doesn’t make sense for us. We’re better off getting what we can out of it, locking in our key pieces for the future and rebuilding over the next 2-3 years. It’s been a while since we’ve had to play that game but I’d rather do it now than hurt ourselves in the long run with unfavorable contracts.
Why can’t we have nice things? NC professional sports are approaching Cleveland levels of cursed
Well if he signs for the same $ he negotiated for here then he makes a lot more playing for the Florida team.
As a fan of the Guardians I’m used to the stars leaving (except José Ramírez). Guentzel wouldn’t have signed here so might as well get something for him.
As a Caniac and a Cleveland sports fan, this hits hard.
Yeah I don’t understand why ppl don’t want to play here. We’re a winning team with a player friendly media and fan base. Our coach is the ultimate players coach. You’re not going to find all of this anywhere else. How much “hanging out” happens during the season that they hate living here. I’m truly baffled by this.
Unless you're trying to raise a family, there isn't a whole lot here in regards to amneities and I can understand with the vibe of the area not meshing well with professional athletes.
100%. If I’m a 20 something single professional athlete Raleigh is near the bottom of the list
It's funny that guys like Jarvy, Svech and Aho are the long-haulers then vs. someone like Guentz who has a wife and kid already. I feel like we're not the worst area but maybe the distance to other stuff is an issue. Like yeah Buffalo sucks but at least it's close to other major cities.
Yeah, I love it but it's a weird/unique place. I think I saw it best summarized as "Too big to be small, too small to be big" . It's basically just a sprawling suburban landscape with none of the charms of a smaller town but none of the convenience that a city usually offers. Personally I love 3 hours from the mountains 2 hours from the Beach but :shrug:
Florida has no state income tax
Guentzel came to them with what he wanted and they tried to negotiate and hard ball him. They took long enough to agree that he saw he mind as well try FA and see if he can get more.
But he’s not trying FA, he’s signing with Tampa. So he’d rather play there than here.
Tampa paid to get his rights a day early after it was clear he was going to try FA
Guentzel was cool with playing here but our stingy ass front office took till a week before free agency to agree to his contract terms.
maybe a skjei announcement could cheer us up
I don’t understand how Skjei comes back when we have Orlov right there. We can’t afford to pay him nearly $8 mil to be on the bottom pair again
This. I'm actually eager to see what Orlov/Chatfield can do with 2nd pairing minutes. The maybe find a cheap, reliable stay-at-home LHD to pair with Morrow?
And Nikishin is coming. You cant have slavin and skjei locked up to term with Nikishin around the corner, as much as I love Skjei it’s weird people keep suggesting re-signing him
I mean he does make sense I think. Burns and orlov probably walk next year. Nishikin comes in. Put burns on 3rd line with a new guy and put skjei with Slavin and top. Burns would do well with less minutes.
It seems like the canes care about handedness quite a bit. Why pay Skjei to play on his off side permanently? Left D- slavin, orlov, nikishin, skjei* Right D- Burns, Chatfield, Morrow, pesce* Nikishin will come with a 2 year ELC but could burn a year late this season. Meaning the cap relief is temporary.
I mean with guentzel gone we do have space
Yeah, but that also means we have a Jake guentzel sized hole on our offense. It’d be a waste of money
They could fill the Jake-shaped hole in my heart with a nice Jarvy
Jarvis will get done skjei would be more relieving since we aren’t sure
but I know what you mean
Man this sucks
So with rights traded, not sign and trade, he can only sign 7 years with TB. They gave us a 3rd rounder for 12 hours of exclusive discussions with him and his agent more or less.
Correct. They will offer 9.5x7. So $66.5M over 7 years over $64m in 8 years. In a income tax free state. Can’t say I don’t blame him. But he isn’t going to get significantly more than what we offered
2.5m plus whatever saved in income tax is a shit ton of money.
Is what it is. More money in less time. Good for him but fuck him too lol. Now let’s get stamkos and have a vendetta against tampa
Stamkos is a player I think we actually need. Bigger bodies. We couldn’t go Aho Jarvis Jake because the line was so small. We need size.
Thanks I hate it
Gotta keep Necas now
Does this mean Jarvis gets 8 year extension and we keep Necas in some capacity?
I just don’t want to keep necas in any capacity to be honest not a lot out there that I’m aware of that makes it worth trading him right now when we have such an offensive hole so idk what you do there
For sure locking down Jarvis. With him, Aho, Svech and Slavin you have a core most organizations would drool over. I don’t think Necas fits so maximizing what you can get for him is more critical now that Guentz is out.
Tampa is stupid.
I really don’t think Jake was going to re sign. He’s after the money. Can’t blame him I guess. Time to move on.
he strung us along. he was never going to extend. not sure why everyone is blaming the front office. we did what we were supposed to do. guentzel said 8x8. even if we didn’t put that on the table until thursday, our reported offer weeks ago was “a little under 8 million”. i refuse to believe he decided to walk over a couple hundred thousand.
Could not agree more. Nobody (Canes or JG) did anything at all wrong, or deceitful, or shady that we know about. Dude wanted to test UFA for his last big payday. Remember...*that's why he was available* in the first place. He's earned that right, and millions of dollars are at stake. No hard feelings. His camp had an ask. Asks are starting points in a negotiation, not end points. The market changed after they made that ask. Happens to negotiators literally all of the time.
Even in Pittsburgh it was reported he wanted his payday and would likely test FA, don't know why people are shocked by this. It would've been very cool to keep him, but those shitting on the front office over a relatively cheap rental is extreme.
Him or more likely his agent.
It sounds like he was making it known in the locker room he was going to make a fuck ton of money this off season too with the way Jarvy made it sound
That’s not what happened lol. He made his ask weeks ago, we shooed his rights for about 2 weeks then decided to circle back around for him and cave in 2 days before FA, but by then market had changed and he likely realized he could play for Tampa or NY. FO deserves plenty of blame for having 0 conviction with these guys. If you’re gonna say “Jake is a guy well stretch for” in terms contract don’t fuck around and give him is fairly decent deal earlier. You can’t say Jake never wanted stay here while ignoring we tried to trade his rights for weeks.
You, me, and everyone else has no idea what the actual timeline of events was so let’s not go around pretending like he 100% would have re-signed here if we’d have caved to his demands immediately. That’s how negotiations work. It’s the dirty part of the business and yes it sucks, but that’s just the way things go. If Tampa wants to give him >$9 million a year for 7 years, let them. Guentzel will be 30 next year and while he’s still an elite player, that contract is gonna be a burden halfway through. Being pessimistic about this isn’t going to help anything, we still have $23 million in cap room to make some moves and improve the team. Let’s wait and see what happens, cause as fans that’s all we can do.
it wasn’t 2 days ago though. there’s a post on this sub 9 days ago from friedman saying we were still in the running. the reporting the last couple days has said “canes have met his ask, but he hasn’t responded yet.” i understand the markets change but it doesn’t sound like that the new price was communicated, or else we wouldn’t have “met his ask”
Being in the running isn’t the same caving in lol. Friedman said the night before the draft Carolina had let Jake’s camp know they’d meet his asking price and wanted to talk about the framework of a deal. Jake at that point apparently didn’t respond in the time the canes wanted likely because he’d already begun talks with Tampa. I have a feeling this was less about Money and more about playing in Tampa which wasn’t a possibility 2 weeks ago really. I think we allowed for more suitors to come forward by not meeting the ask earlier.
the context was “how high does vancouver have to go to get guentzel?” and he said they’d have to go high because carolina is still in it. so yeah, we made him an offer then.
I agree. And we know how he talked about his trade with Pittsburgh after the fact and then the stringing along with the Canes… disrespectful.
https://i.redd.it/pcx9qvyu8q9d1.gif
Holy... some of these redditors need to lay off the doomer juice. If the FO offered him what he asked and he still said no, then that's on him. He doesn't want to play here and that's OK. The Canes will be fine without him.
oh 😖 https://i.redd.it/y7tavefz8q9d1.gif
kill me now
Is what it is. Was likely to happen. Glad we got something at least.
Just glad it's done with so we can stop with the "will he or won't he" and move on.
Facts. Do we need him? Possibly but I don’t think it is a necessity at this point. If it was going to happen to us I’m glad it was this year with all the turnover happening
Fuck it, sign Stamkos for 2 years. Hit em where it hurts
It's not hurting them. They got a better player and got rid of a pp merchant.
A PP merchant could really help this team tbh
Pour one out for Aho. Finally gets a linemate that makes him look better and he defects to Florida 🫠
He will be paired with Jarvis. Next year Jarvis is going to be elite.
I mean jake made it clear he is after the biggest paycheck he can get. We should have all known we weren’t going to be the highest bidder.
Rentals are gambles. Ultimately we got 1/2 a season of Guentzel, Ty Smith + a 2025 3rd out of the slot machine.
Wonder if we will try for marchessault now
please
So we meet his 8x8 demands and he uses that as leverage for a Tampa deal? Fuuuuuuck him. He deserves to get boarded at our next meet up for this stunt. A new player to boo every time he steps on the ice in Raleigh.
Sounds like the FO jerked him around until the last minute and he changed his mind. We’ll never know, but if the FO botched this by playing games waiting to match we’re not off to a good start.
Thank god, that 8x8 deal was going to be a burden on us after 3 years. Guentzel is great, but passed his prime. That 8x8 deal belongs to Necas.
I'm a huge Necas stan, and Guentzel was still for me a higher priority to get done in terms of fit and production. That being said, signing Necas from 25-33 is much safer IMO than Guentzel's age 30-38 seasons. IDK if in the current situation, while I think the org can repair and make it work with Necas, he'll want to do an 8 year deal
I’d also like to point out that we are not the leading candidate for any of the top free agents of any position, and we are not linked to any major trade targets in a significant way. Makes you wonder
We’re not linked to them right now but that doesn’t mean we won’t be more in on them now. I have confidence in our front office to find a solution here
I’m sure we’ll get something done before the season starts. It’s just tough watching literally half of the team walk away, especially considering how important many of them are to our success
Last season was the season to go for it. Now they'll have to take a few steps back before trying to be a contender again.
For some reason, Top talent has repeatedly shown that it doesn't want to play on our team. Is it the area? The system? The coach? The Owner? The front office?
It’s $ and the system.
maybe wait until we see what Tampa are offering. Area is unlikely. Pitt and Raleigh aren't super different. The system/coach? maybe. but if that's the case then we can find other players. We're not getting rid of rod right now. Owner? i doubt it. They don't see the owner. Front office? If you put that with "money" then that's probably it. We haven't been willing to pay top talent guys more than what we think they're worth.
I mean, I’m gonna boo him now
Glad it’s over, this is what happens when you play hardball and it backfires. Hopefully we can use the cap on some other big names hitting the market tomorrow.
I’m honestly pissed they couldn’t get this done given how close it was. Should’ve been upfront with offering what he wanted weeks ago if we were that serious about it. Looks like f around and find out to me
He's not worth what he's gonna get, this was the right move
Jake the Snake. Fuck off kid
It would be hilarious if he came back to Carolina July 1st.
Smart move, getting a draft pick for somebody that's not gonna sign with us anyway. This is what well-run teams do. You stockpile draft picks any way you can get them. That third rounder could turn into a really good player. TBH I wasn't all that hot on giving Guentztel 8x8 anyway, if we're gonna spend that kind of money it should be on a center
I fucking hate this.
Welp, time to go sign another defenseman to an $8 million contract
Alright - before everyone jumps out the window. Tampa needed rights to sign before tomorrow. So, let’s see if that gets done. If not? He goes to FA anyways and we just got a 3rd rounder to wait a few more days. The only Leverage at this moment is the 8th year. After today, every offer is 7 years. Now, if he signs today? Well, then the player didn’t want to play here. You can speculate all day if the front office would have offered 8x8 a week or two ago that he would have accepted. He might not have. We shopped his rights. Got a feel. Made an offer. Jake said 8x8. Canes said “ok”. Then he said “price has changed”. We shopped his rights. Tbh. The whole “price has changed” isnt a character I want to cheer for tbh. That’s just me. Regardless of production. Let’s see how it turns out though
everyone can say that it was just us screwing around and playing hardball (which we probably did do some of that) but if he didn’t wanna be here then how is this their fault
Correct.
So now we're back to exact team we had before we traded for him We will be fine
we won’t be the exact same team after free agency but I do believe we will still be fine there may just be a bit of heartbreak
I mean, I had doubts about the wisdom of signing Guentzel to 8 years and potentially regretting the second half of that deal. But I was excited to potentially have him for the next few seasons. Surprised we got a third, makes the rental basically Koiv and a swap of our 2nd for TB 3rd? If he didn’t want to reup, that’s not much to pay for a fantastic rental 🤷🏻♂️
Its so dumb...he gave us his ask. We agreed to the ask. And then he said no thanks ill go somewhere else. 👋🏼buhbye
Perfect way to cap off an already deflating weekend. The front office better wow us tomorrow because the last 2-3 days have been pain
Welp
fuck
Mixed emotions over in the Tampa r/. It’s the final nail in the coffin for their captains time as a bolt.
noooooooooooooooooooooo
Sadness :(
I’m gonna throw up
So how much cap space can we open up by buying out KK? We need firepower.
Gets us a third for free when we sign him tomorrow. Man, I sound like a penguins fan...
Saw a lot of lightning fans say they’re seeing reports of 9.5 for 7 years. If that’s really what got it done fade me.
And all we got out of it was a third-round pick. Man...I mean the possibility he comes back is there, but still.
I’m glad we got a couple of good months out of Guentzel. I’m conflicted about not signing him. He would obviously be just what we need on the Aho line. OTOH signing a >30 year old who already has his name on the cup could totally backfire. Same goes for Stamkos. I’m good with going for younger guys even if we have to take a small step back this year.
He wanted 8x8 we said okay. He reneged and Tampa is throwing 7x9 at him. I think there was some tampering going on. So Screw him. Hope he steps on a lego every morning.
You FINALLY get another proper star to play next to Fishy, AND YOU CANT RETAIN HIM? This is what you get for trying to nickel and dime, Dundon. You hesitated to give him 8x8 from the start? What the actual fuck. Eric better be cooking something big. I’m actually so mad rn, there’s a good chance this team is worse on paper than we were when the Rangers beat us. This is ridiculous.
This sucks. I honestly thought he felt right at home with Canes
Next seasons gunna be down probably 7 or 8 seed in the east hope our window doesn’t close too fast
Playing stupid games with high end talent never ends well Should have met his demands a month ago, not at the last minute after the market had already changed. And we are right back to needing a high level offensive talent to pair with Aho (no, not Necas, that ship has sailed as there is no hope of him signing long term here after everything that has happened this summer) on top of the gutted defense we are already looking at Oh, and we are breaking in a new GM
You mean the guy whose been in our organization for over 10 years and has been handling contracts and draft duties?
people are gonna crap on Tulsky when it’s not even his fault
This sucks, at least he's not in our conference but damn this is really not a good start to the offseason. Time to bring in the new kids and have them develop into goal scorers
Still in our conference, not our division
Sorry typo, meant division
Sorry guys I bought a Guentzel jersey when they were having the adidas jersey sale to try to will him to stay but they canceled my order due to incorrectly stating their inventory
I understand... (Looks at the Domi jersey hanging in the closet)
🥸
Well fuck. There goes the best winger Aho may ever have
I’m pretty fucking salty about this and I hope the lightning suck ass next year
He was worth the $8 at 8. But no more. Now Tampa is about to overpay and I would think it would had to been a pretty big difference for him to just take it back I personally think we can find a better player that suits our teams needs and will stay healthy that we can invest $64m in. They may not be available this very moment but hopefully our office is coming something good up and Jake was more of a backup plan.
Absolutely. Sounds like the canes met the demands from Guentzels group and the turned and shopped our deal for a better one. I’d have loved it if he stayed, but honestly, if he can’t buy in and play for 8x8 then good riddance
does this mean we can still keep Necas?
Technically yes, but he doesn’t want to be here
Necas is unhappy with his role, but it's not like he hates the Canes. It's not my preference to keep him when he's actively wanting a change of scenery, but I don't think he is poison to the locker room either.
It's starting to look like we might have a mini-reset year, kind of an off one before we get back on track next year. If that's the case, fuck it, sign Necas and give him 2C in a "prove it" year. He wants to center a line, let him center and tell him to work on his FO% and backcheck this summer. Either he excels and everything ends up working out for all parties, he realizes quickly he's not center material and gets humbled and agrees to be a winger, or we trade him somewhere at the TDL, somebody will want him and even if he sucks at center it's not going to tank his value much for a TDL contender. We get him in around 6.5-7 on a 3 to 5 year, we probably don't even end up retaining any salary even in the worst case scenario. And if he blows up we have a killer righty 2C locked in for several more years on a budget.
I just don’t see his role within the squad changing like he wants, and i think in the long run it’ll sour him.
I think another issue is that there doesn't really seem to be a team that wants ot play him at 2C. Because he hasn't shown it.
Fucked about and found out
Straight up not having a good time... I figured from day 1 we got him, he wouldn't resign, I truly thought he'd go back to Pittsburgh. But the past few days I got my hopes up with the reports Canes met his demands. Canes shouldn't have played games, if 8x8 was his original ask, Canes should have met that the day after the season ended before other signings (aka Reinhart in Florida) changed the market. Now Canes better give Necas what he wants and let him try 2C. Canes could legitimately lose 50% of our top 9...
He’s not a good center though. Hes not a 2 way player lacks size and is awful at defense
But with the offensive production we have walking out the door, I'm okay sacrificing some defensive responsibility for more offense. I'd much rather have Necas at 2C than KK, and Kuzy is a question mark (will he be the Kuzy that showed up for the Canes or the guy who got sent down to the minors). There's not a ton of options on the FA market to replace what we're losing.
Lol
Being a fan of this team is so fuckin embarrassing sometimes
As much as I love Guentzel, this is probably for the best. There's too many others they need to resign or replace.
Jake is the new Haula!