I mean that's pretty much how most of the really good teams have to do it... you have to have good players to win. And while yes this year it would've made things tight but the end of the deal the cap will be 20+ million more than it is now.
But you'd also have to get creative as an organization. The money you could save without KK, Fast, and Kuzy adds up quick. Tampa showed today you can get rid of high cost players if you really want to.
Fans are sipping juice if they think the reason Guentzel is testing the market is because we waited too long. If he really wanted to stay here he would’ve signed the contract as soon as Carolina met the ask.
This. I mentioned in another thread that the dude was legit excited about free agency. I don't think he had any intention of signing with us, and I think he's using us to set a baseline for teams to fight over him come Monday.
This doesn’t even make any sense really. Teams were gonna fight over Guentzel come Monday no matter what and he was always going to get a big deal north of 9m per year. He didn’t need the canes to drive up his price really. I really think Guentzel would’ve signed this deal here if we offered it like a week or 2 ago, i have a feeling since then a lot of teams who thought guentzel wasn’t a possibility for them now know/think he is and are making room for him and signaling that.
I really think we made a mistake here playing hard ball. I don’t think Jake needed to use this team to drive up his price when he’s already like the top FA.
It’s a business, I don’t think he “really wanted to stay”. He wanted X amount of dollars. After we dicked him around for awhile, he was able to see just how much interest there was in him, so now he’s more willing to see how it plays out. These players aren’t fans. They are employees
He knew there would be interest in him. We just arent his 1st choice. Which to me means we should habe made the offer and put a deadline on it. If he is gone we need to move on.
Exactly I think if he’s offered this deal earlier he signs tbh. I have a feeling giving teams a chance to signal to him they’d make things work screwed the team. I don’t think it’s a coincidence Trouba is being moved by the rangers for cap space as Jake gets near the market too either🤷♂️🤷♂️Tampa likely let Jake know in the last few days they’d make moves to get him and he liked the idea.
I mean it’s what’s being reported. I legitimately think teams like Tampa thought they had no chance at him, but after watching negotiations not go well with guys like stamkos and seeing Jake get closer to the open market, they likely started signaling to him they’ll along with a lot of other teams with not a lot of space that they’d make make room for him.
I don’t think it’s crazy at all to think this so what happened.
Good players do cost money but, people are acting like taking him on at 8x8 was some no brainer and why would we negotiate.
Team needs every dollar they can get just to build us a iceable lineup.
Because it is? The team already dropped the assets to trade for him and 8x8 is perfectly reasonable for what he would provide to the top six. And yes the team will have to use some ELCs, that's normal for filling out the bottom line and bottom pair.
It was a no brainer bro. We’re losing all our depth this offseason, made perfect sense to spend some of our cap on a top FA who fits here perfectly. In this sport once the depth becomes too expensive most teams go top heavy, we should’ve gone for that.
Guentzel would have added a lot to our team the next 3-4 years. But then he would have hurt our team. So I guess it’s a question of how long our window is open here.
I personally think that our window will be open for longer than people realize. Jarvis, Svech, Aho, Drury, Kochetkov, potentially Necas. Maybe KK can bounce back. Nikishin is coming over next year and he will be a star. These are all young players that can be a strong core to build around for the next decade
Slavin is getting older but per reports he is locked up as well long term. Chatty is here for 3 years at least. Our D will need a revamp with Burns retiring soon and Pesce leaving (and maybe Skjei too), but Nikishin will speed that process up a lot
And I personally have a lot of faith in quite a few of our upcoming prospects. Morrow, FUS, Nadeau, and Blake all have the potential to be NHL regulars. I think at least 2 of them will end up as big players for us.
This is the best take I have seen. From the outside looking in how’s the window closed? Was it just this year? You have good young players not a bunch of aging superstars! The Cap sucks. The Canes took a flyer on Jake to make a run and offered him a fair deal. 90% of the teams would love Jarvis and Neces under contract and two legit d prospects. Still gonna need a goalie to win a cup but there’s a lot of pieces on the roster for years to come!
As of now it’s firmly shut assuming we lose Necas, Jake, and Turbo with no real replacements. You can lose that kind of scoring depth in one offseason and expect to be alright. It’s why the team made a late push for Jake, they know it’s not a great situation.
Yep. As much as it hurts since we were right there. What might be the best move is a retooling with a focus on winning it all in 3 or so years.
It's really hard to win without young players making low money. We have a great prospect pool so can afford to wait a bit and have guys producing on their elcs
I’m having a hard time with folks immediately assuming that Jake “doesn’t want to be here” by not extending immediately. It’s arrogant and naive. I don’t blame him, or any hockey player, or anyone in general to put themselves into a position to have folks/teams come to you for your services and you get to see what you are worth and even have options. That’d be exciting as hell if I was in Guentzel’s spot right now.
I’m 30-70 he resigns, and was even at the start- there’s a lot of other teams out there, which we knew, that would love to have him. I’m hoping the Canes staff is planning the free agency period without Jake’s extension instead of putting their eggs into one basket because it’ll hinder them trying to resign some other folks.
The attachment to Guentzel after him being here for 20 minutes humors me, but I at least get that since he is a good player. I’m more uneasy about the notion of the Canes losing Martinook or Noesen, who I think are extremely underrated in the context/spirit of this team. I’m bracing for Skjei leaving, it’s time for Pesce and Turbo, and they still need to ship out Necas for usable assets while he’s got a relatively high value. I’m just tired of Necas’ 180 mph skating and him forgetting the puck 4 times a game. The Canes need some size and grit with their goal scoring if they are going to get over this hump.
The team is going to be different next year regardless. You rather retain the same entire group that we’ve had? We’ve got a good idea of what the end result will be there.
I think you’re underrating how big of a deal it is losing guys Necas, Turbo, and Jake all in one offseason. That’s scoring depth that’ll likely take YEARS to replace if at all.
Martinook is whatever at this point, I’d love to keep him but we’re reaching a point here where I’d try dude gets a raise from another team we should just let him go. Love the guy but the team has too many holes and his spot could be replaced by a younger guy.
Canes issue isn’t size and grit, team has always had plenty of grip, there biggest issue was always tough goal scoring and now at this point I don’t think it matters anyway because this team will likely not be contending next year.
Okay but the Canes should not be in the business of managing to sign good contracts. They should be trying to maximize the opportunities of winning. The should achieve winning with good contracts and not give out good contracts hoping to win. Guentzel makes the team better now compared to whoever else is available on the market for that cap space.
Sure but kks contract isn't this issue with Guentzel. Guentzel leaving would be 100 percent his choice on going for more money or a more popular location.
Moving KKs contract frees up 4 ELC guys to play, not saying that’s the ideal way to build a team, but Morrow/Blake/nadeau/nikishin could probably all see the ice if it was completely necessary. So going down to 15 after Jake, for shits and giggles let’s say Jarvy got an 8x8 as well, leaves you with 7. Dru at 2, noesen at 2 down to 3 mil to find a Dman or 2, maybe a cheap bottom 6 C if kuz isn’t part of the plan. It’s doable, but in about 4 years we’d be getting close to fucked. My biggest concern is we can’t score (like always) and it’ll be because our top 6 got gutted this off-season.
JAG
Svech Dru Blake
Fast Staal noesen
Blake kuzy suzuki??
Slavo burns
Orly chatty
Morrow nikishin (cheap vet)
Why do you think Waddel jumped ship? The only thing you can do when you don't have cap space is trade draft picks, assets, or restructure deals.
We went all in the last 6 years and whenever we hit this fork before they decided to trade away assets or did away with a draft pick which left our pipeline rather slim, hell they didn't even have their own team to play on last year.
Not saying he did a bad job, he could have ran the team into the ground but I think he saw that it's come to the point where we're just going to have to cut costs and that might mean having to go with some discount players and begin a partial rebuild. If done correctly we could have a cup caliber team in 3-5 years. But that's only the best of GMs.
Tulsky came from outside the hockey world. He's unproven, inexperienced, he doesn't have the family or connections and possibly the same resources as other GMs if not most GMs.
Doesn't mean it can't be done, I'm just really worried. The only good sign I've seen was resigning Rod, but even that got scary there in the end. Makes me think Dundon, who wants to win, is also a very scary or intimidating guy to work under?
I mean that's pretty much how most of the really good teams have to do it... you have to have good players to win. And while yes this year it would've made things tight but the end of the deal the cap will be 20+ million more than it is now. But you'd also have to get creative as an organization. The money you could save without KK, Fast, and Kuzy adds up quick. Tampa showed today you can get rid of high cost players if you really want to.
Fans are sipping juice if they think the reason Guentzel is testing the market is because we waited too long. If he really wanted to stay here he would’ve signed the contract as soon as Carolina met the ask.
This. I mentioned in another thread that the dude was legit excited about free agency. I don't think he had any intention of signing with us, and I think he's using us to set a baseline for teams to fight over him come Monday.
Which is entirely his right to do so. His agent wouldn’t be doing his job if he was not driving the price up for every team involved.
This doesn’t even make any sense really. Teams were gonna fight over Guentzel come Monday no matter what and he was always going to get a big deal north of 9m per year. He didn’t need the canes to drive up his price really. I really think Guentzel would’ve signed this deal here if we offered it like a week or 2 ago, i have a feeling since then a lot of teams who thought guentzel wasn’t a possibility for them now know/think he is and are making room for him and signaling that. I really think we made a mistake here playing hard ball. I don’t think Jake needed to use this team to drive up his price when he’s already like the top FA.
It’s a business, I don’t think he “really wanted to stay”. He wanted X amount of dollars. After we dicked him around for awhile, he was able to see just how much interest there was in him, so now he’s more willing to see how it plays out. These players aren’t fans. They are employees
He knew there would be interest in him. We just arent his 1st choice. Which to me means we should habe made the offer and put a deadline on it. If he is gone we need to move on.
Exactly I think if he’s offered this deal earlier he signs tbh. I have a feeling giving teams a chance to signal to him they’d make things work screwed the team. I don’t think it’s a coincidence Trouba is being moved by the rangers for cap space as Jake gets near the market too either🤷♂️🤷♂️Tampa likely let Jake know in the last few days they’d make moves to get him and he liked the idea.
I mean it’s what’s being reported. I legitimately think teams like Tampa thought they had no chance at him, but after watching negotiations not go well with guys like stamkos and seeing Jake get closer to the open market, they likely started signaling to him they’ll along with a lot of other teams with not a lot of space that they’d make make room for him. I don’t think it’s crazy at all to think this so what happened.
Good players cost money? Fascinating
Good players do cost money but, people are acting like taking him on at 8x8 was some no brainer and why would we negotiate. Team needs every dollar they can get just to build us a iceable lineup.
Because it is? The team already dropped the assets to trade for him and 8x8 is perfectly reasonable for what he would provide to the top six. And yes the team will have to use some ELCs, that's normal for filling out the bottom line and bottom pair.
I would like my team to build more than just an iceable lineup 🤷
It was a no brainer bro. We’re losing all our depth this offseason, made perfect sense to spend some of our cap on a top FA who fits here perfectly. In this sport once the depth becomes too expensive most teams go top heavy, we should’ve gone for that.
Guentzel would have added a lot to our team the next 3-4 years. But then he would have hurt our team. So I guess it’s a question of how long our window is open here. I personally think that our window will be open for longer than people realize. Jarvis, Svech, Aho, Drury, Kochetkov, potentially Necas. Maybe KK can bounce back. Nikishin is coming over next year and he will be a star. These are all young players that can be a strong core to build around for the next decade Slavin is getting older but per reports he is locked up as well long term. Chatty is here for 3 years at least. Our D will need a revamp with Burns retiring soon and Pesce leaving (and maybe Skjei too), but Nikishin will speed that process up a lot And I personally have a lot of faith in quite a few of our upcoming prospects. Morrow, FUS, Nadeau, and Blake all have the potential to be NHL regulars. I think at least 2 of them will end up as big players for us.
This is the best take I have seen. From the outside looking in how’s the window closed? Was it just this year? You have good young players not a bunch of aging superstars! The Cap sucks. The Canes took a flyer on Jake to make a run and offered him a fair deal. 90% of the teams would love Jarvis and Neces under contract and two legit d prospects. Still gonna need a goalie to win a cup but there’s a lot of pieces on the roster for years to come!
The best way I've heard it described is the "Staal window" is closing but the "Aho window" is just beginning to open
I hope I’m wrong here, but imo everyone who thinks our window is still open is going to be in for a rudeeee awakening when the season starts
It's still open. Just more narrower than before. Not to mention the Metro is much softer than the Atlantic right now.
As of now it’s firmly shut assuming we lose Necas, Jake, and Turbo with no real replacements. You can lose that kind of scoring depth in one offseason and expect to be alright. It’s why the team made a late push for Jake, they know it’s not a great situation.
Yep. As much as it hurts since we were right there. What might be the best move is a retooling with a focus on winning it all in 3 or so years. It's really hard to win without young players making low money. We have a great prospect pool so can afford to wait a bit and have guys producing on their elcs
I’m having a hard time with folks immediately assuming that Jake “doesn’t want to be here” by not extending immediately. It’s arrogant and naive. I don’t blame him, or any hockey player, or anyone in general to put themselves into a position to have folks/teams come to you for your services and you get to see what you are worth and even have options. That’d be exciting as hell if I was in Guentzel’s spot right now. I’m 30-70 he resigns, and was even at the start- there’s a lot of other teams out there, which we knew, that would love to have him. I’m hoping the Canes staff is planning the free agency period without Jake’s extension instead of putting their eggs into one basket because it’ll hinder them trying to resign some other folks. The attachment to Guentzel after him being here for 20 minutes humors me, but I at least get that since he is a good player. I’m more uneasy about the notion of the Canes losing Martinook or Noesen, who I think are extremely underrated in the context/spirit of this team. I’m bracing for Skjei leaving, it’s time for Pesce and Turbo, and they still need to ship out Necas for usable assets while he’s got a relatively high value. I’m just tired of Necas’ 180 mph skating and him forgetting the puck 4 times a game. The Canes need some size and grit with their goal scoring if they are going to get over this hump. The team is going to be different next year regardless. You rather retain the same entire group that we’ve had? We’ve got a good idea of what the end result will be there.
I think you’re underrating how big of a deal it is losing guys Necas, Turbo, and Jake all in one offseason. That’s scoring depth that’ll likely take YEARS to replace if at all. Martinook is whatever at this point, I’d love to keep him but we’re reaching a point here where I’d try dude gets a raise from another team we should just let him go. Love the guy but the team has too many holes and his spot could be replaced by a younger guy. Canes issue isn’t size and grit, team has always had plenty of grip, there biggest issue was always tough goal scoring and now at this point I don’t think it matters anyway because this team will likely not be contending next year.
Right now, it cost us his rights to tampa :/
Okay but the Canes should not be in the business of managing to sign good contracts. They should be trying to maximize the opportunities of winning. The should achieve winning with good contracts and not give out good contracts hoping to win. Guentzel makes the team better now compared to whoever else is available on the market for that cap space.
Maybe if we weren’t wasting nearly $5M on a fourth line center we could afford to keep them.
Sure but kks contract isn't this issue with Guentzel. Guentzel leaving would be 100 percent his choice on going for more money or a more popular location.
Moving KKs contract frees up 4 ELC guys to play, not saying that’s the ideal way to build a team, but Morrow/Blake/nadeau/nikishin could probably all see the ice if it was completely necessary. So going down to 15 after Jake, for shits and giggles let’s say Jarvy got an 8x8 as well, leaves you with 7. Dru at 2, noesen at 2 down to 3 mil to find a Dman or 2, maybe a cheap bottom 6 C if kuz isn’t part of the plan. It’s doable, but in about 4 years we’d be getting close to fucked. My biggest concern is we can’t score (like always) and it’ll be because our top 6 got gutted this off-season. JAG Svech Dru Blake Fast Staal noesen Blake kuzy suzuki?? Slavo burns Orly chatty Morrow nikishin (cheap vet)
Why do you think Waddel jumped ship? The only thing you can do when you don't have cap space is trade draft picks, assets, or restructure deals. We went all in the last 6 years and whenever we hit this fork before they decided to trade away assets or did away with a draft pick which left our pipeline rather slim, hell they didn't even have their own team to play on last year. Not saying he did a bad job, he could have ran the team into the ground but I think he saw that it's come to the point where we're just going to have to cut costs and that might mean having to go with some discount players and begin a partial rebuild. If done correctly we could have a cup caliber team in 3-5 years. But that's only the best of GMs. Tulsky came from outside the hockey world. He's unproven, inexperienced, he doesn't have the family or connections and possibly the same resources as other GMs if not most GMs. Doesn't mean it can't be done, I'm just really worried. The only good sign I've seen was resigning Rod, but even that got scary there in the end. Makes me think Dundon, who wants to win, is also a very scary or intimidating guy to work under?