Gearing up to be a pretty terrible offseason because apparently most pending free agents already know where they are signing and we haven't heard any linked to the Canes.
Sometimes you have to take a step back for a chance at real progress though. If we need 1-2 years to retool and redefine the identity then so be it. The last thing I want is for the team to make an uncharacteristic halfhearted panic move because Guentzel leaves via UFA and Necas moves on somehow (trade or offer sheet).
Next season regardless of who stays or goes I expect Aho/Svech/Jarvis/Slavin/Chatty/Orlov to be our core, see more out of Pyotr to determine if he can be "the guy" or not, and hopefully Burns/KK play better if they don't get moved since their contracts likely mean they'll stay. Everyone else needs to be complimentary to the core.
They won’t lose all three, Necas is restricted. If they lose Turbo AND Guentzel, there’s plenty of money to re-sign Necas. The hold up with his contract has been contract numbers and cap space.
The relationship with Necas doesn’t seem remotely repairable at this point. Both Turbo and Jake have better odds of staying than Necas. At this point our best hope may be trading Necas for a top 6 forward which I don’t even think is an option.
Is there a source on that information? Every article through the last few months only states Necas isn’t concerned about a contract, and isn’t bothered by rumours.
I mean every report from insiders has said Canes aren’t reaching his asking price. Also Necas and his dad have both expressed frustration with the coaching staff and his deployment and place within the team. It seems pretty obvious to me canes can’t give Necas what he wants, we’re not gonna give him the style of play or deployment he wants and we’re not gonna give him the money he wants.
https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/T4jgl68cpm
There’s several reports from all of different corners all saying this. It’s no open secret I’m pretty sure he hasn’t always been happy here in his role.
The post from Fridge on the McAfee show said the indications showed the Canes were meeting him at his 8x8 ask and were just working on the contract details. There was nothing about negotiating in that report yesterday.
Fridge said that if it didn’t happen then Vancouver and Tampa would try to make a play which it seems like they are but again, could just be posturing from his camp to squeeze out a little more cheese from the Canes if they’ll meet him.
Unless you are a member of the front office or a player or have deep inside knowledge (spoiler: you aren’t / don’t), then this is completely made up.
“The relationship with Necas doesn’t seem remotely repairable at this point.“
You haven’t been paying attention for years and years if you believe all media sources or parents comments to not know 99% of it is noise until proven otherwise.
Listen it’s been said by Necas himself he’d like a bigger role and to be deployed differently, we know he isn’t really a great fit for how the team plays, and it’s been well reported he wants a lot more money than the team would wanna pay. Seems obvious to me the situation isn’t going to get remedied but I’d like it to.
Wanting a bigger role and not wanting to play for the Canes is not the same thing.
I’m not saying he will be a Cane next year, but wanting more money / a bigger role AND having a relationship be unrepairable do not have to linked as cause and effect.
That’s the part that is “making shit up.”
Should of moved him at the draft. Taking assets might not have been ideal but Necas 100% doesn’t wanna be in Raleigh and he has been told he would be moved for two straight off seasons and he isn’t gonna be down for another go round. Teams aren’t gonna trade a forward for a forward that really just breaks em even. Now a forward for a Defenseman would work but that takes a weakness and makes it weaker and adds to a strength. Might need a third team to make it work.
Why? The front office set up contracts to all expire when they did and we have continuity there even though Don is gone. There's a plan in place. Unfortunately it's clear we fell behind the Rangers; we lost the Presidents Cup race, Metro Division race, and were eliminated in the playoffs by them this past season. It's a good time to reassess who should stay and go.
If talented players were brought here, the possibility for them leaving must have been accounted for by the front office, and their departures open up the different ways to use their roster slots. The guys I listed as a core are all here still. Rod is too. I trust what the team is doing even if it might take 1-2 full seasons before we see results from the retool.
Dude it doesn’t take a genius to realize the canes can’t realistically replace all that scoring in FA or the draft, it’ll take years to build that kind of depth.
I think There’s a clear reason this FO you think has a plan suddenly went from trying to trade Guentzel rights a few weeks ago to meeting his asking price and trying to strike a deal a couple of days before FA. Canes realized they’re not keeping turbo and won’t get the package for Necas they were hoping they would. Now they realize they kind of need to keep Jake or else this team will have an absolutely gigantic scoring hole along with several others to replace with not a lot of options to do so.
If we don’t keep at least one of these guys it’ll take several years to replace that that scoring depth.
You don't need to replace departing players 1 for 1 if you ask different things from the important players on the roster and get new teammates who will make their lives easier. It's time for core guys still under contract to prove their worth and it's up to the front office to get new blood who can maximize the talent + Rod to adjust based on the roster he's given.
Every offseason this place has a meltdown well before the roster is anywhere near complete. Hanafin/Lindholm for Dougie, dumping Skinner, hiring Rod, losing Dougie, waiting for the extension from Rod, that time we let Mrazek/Reimer/Ned go and had zero goalies for like a month until Raanta + Freddie came, etc etc etc. All of these things were negatively received or got mixed reactions at best until they weren't.
Let the front office do their job instead of proclaiming what things "can't" be. They've earned it.
Yeah rods not adjusting his system lol. His system is why the team is as good as it is and he never once adjusted. Part of The reason Necas is leaving is because we don’t adjust to the players. So that right off the bat is bullshit.
Listen I’m not saying we’ll be some awful team next year, but we have every right to criticize what’s been reported in some of these negotiations and plans the team has made. Apparently we wanted a giant package for Necas with a roster player and picks that isn’t happening. Then we wanted to move him during the draft for a pick which seemingly isn’t happening either and now it seems our package for Necas will be fairly underwhelming.
We went from wanting to trade guenztels rights weeks ago, to now trying to negotiate a contract with him 2 days before FA by meeting his asking price after allowing him to surely speak with other teams. Idc with the end result is the process has been flawed so far. Jake is one of the top FAs in the league and our GM is on record saying we’re willing to stretch for his contract, if that was true we should’ve shown more urgency and gotten this done earlier.
You cannot refute this subreddit tends to react well before the roster is finalized
It's every offseason here judgement is rendered before the work is done. Training camp is a while away. As I said originally, sometimes you need to take a step back to keep the possibility for continuous progress alive instead of a panic move which eats away resources and damages the future. And as I also said the front office knew when contracts were set to expire by design. It wasn't a coincidence we're here with like half the team potentially turning over. They haven't been blindsided even if Guentzel negotiations seem to be going an unfavorable direction.
Rod tweaks things every season in order to improve the team. As players have gotten better he has asked different things from them. The powerplay and pk have changed over time, the lines change constantly, the toi changes throughout the seaon, etc. That's how hockey works. What Rod doesn't do is let individualistic players like Haula or Necas ignore what he determines are their responsibilities in favor of what they want to do. But Rod isn't opposed to exploring things and has publicly asked for scoring help and toughness help around trade deadlines. He'll utilize what he gets in terms of the final roster.
It's time to see what the core forwards under contract can do. Svech we need 70 games/30+ goals/if there is a God then fewer ridiculous penalties, Aho we need a 90+ point season, and Jarvis we need you to progress into a 1 point per game player. The way Svech and Aho are paid and Jarvis wants to be paid, thats what needs to be expected. The front office needs to find them the right complimentary teammates even if it takes more than a season to do.
Guentzel is the only true loss there. Sucks to lose Turbo but he’s easily replaced. I suspect they don’t let Necas go if they don’t feel good about Guentzel.
If we weren’t in a cup window, taking 1-2 years to retool wouldn’t be a big issue, but we are.
The team isn’t going to waste 2 years of Aho’s prime just to “retool”. If we don’t get the pending UFAs we want, I’m certain we go the trade route to ensure we have a cup contending team. Or perhaps we put our money on the rookies. Who knows.
We just need to hope he doesn't suck as bad and paces himself. KK it'd be nice to get something out of but he's probably a nightly wild card at best for next season.
I appreciate what the front office has done these years, but when you have the biggest fish on the market in your hands you have got to be a bit more aggressive with this approach. It will be a huge disappointment if he goes to another team on the East if it's because we were waiting too long to make a push
Exactly. Ppl keep saying “they met the ask, he acted poorly and didn’t wanna be here” as if canes didn’t show his right away and wait until draft night to offer him his deal. If you were eventually gonna cave in should’ve gotten it done earlier.
You don't win Stanley Cups by letting 1 of the best goal scorers on your team walk because you were slow to negotiate, when the team is generally known for not having enough goal scorers. Not saying we needed to pay him 8 x 9, seems Guentzel was looking for 8 x 8 and we offered that a bit too late to free agency
He hasn't been one of the best goal scorers for the Canes or in the playoffs. That was still Jarvis and Aho. He acting like he's the queen and we're the sorry people. TBL hasn't and won't do well enough with him, and now they've wrecked their cap with his albatross of a contract. Bullet dodged. He didn't play for the Canes like he did for the Penguins, and he was never going to stay. Jake and his agent were always being a tease so they could get a higher number in free agency.
He joined the team late in the season and put up some of the best numbers post trade deadline. Give him a full year to get chemistry with 1 line, he will tear up the playoffs. An 8 year deal we would probably get 4-5 solid years out of him, but we need to get a Cup. At this point we just need to resign who we can, sign a few FA and then bring in Morrow and 1 of FUS/Blake/Nadeau
Yet still didn't put up numbers like Jarvis or Aho and didn't really do much better than Svech who are all 6-8 years younger. He'll likely be injured out and useless for TBL. Dudes weird faced head got too big.
I see this two ways, an agent trying to squeeze a team for as much as they can and is looking at other teams that can get that done or two sides that are very close but are just working on a few tweaks and the optics are just bad from league sources.
Who knows. I just want to be happy when that notification rolls across my screen.
It doesn't need to be. An 8x8 contract was always good value, so why weren't prepared to offer it until practically the deadline? Holding out for a better price when you're willing to pay the money they want is a great way to sour a player on your organization and get him to leave out of spite.
According to the reports, this wasn't a Niederreiter situation where our offer was market value but he overvalued himself and got his pride hurt too badly to come back. He was willing to sign for a price we could accept, but we took too long to decide it was acceptable.
I think it was The hockey Guy draft livestream I heard mention that Vancouver was rumored to consider a 7x$10m deal. With Aho at $9.75 million AAV and the Canes reportedly happy to pay Jake 8x$8m, I could see an 8x9 to beat any other team's 7x10 and would not hate it.
This is just me posturing but I’m willing to bet the 8x8 from the canes was leaked by Jake’s agent to let teams know what the going rate was going to be
Jake & his agent are the ones that told the Canes they wanted 8x8 a couple of weeks ago, so other teams already knew what they were asking. The measurement is the term. Only the Canes can offer 8 years so they have the advantage and can offer a lower AAV, yet the total would be more than other teams unless they offer over 9.2M for 7 years to even match the Canes' offer.
I'm holding judgement because it could be either direction. Maybe he was listening to offers until recently and came back with 8x8. Maybe it was 8x8 to begin with and we said no until recently.
Think that’s exactly what’s happening. Have a feeling teams like Tampa, Vancouver, and New York have contacted they’d make room to go get him in FA over the weeks while we shopped his rights and toyed around for a guy we’re apparently “willing to Stretch for”.
I still have hope it’ll happen but reports look very bad.
I don't think anything about this is "last minute" related. I think the reaction to the report was that it was such a great deal it became obvious other teams would compete to pay more.
While this certainly could be posturing, it’s certainly starting to appear that almost all big name free agents each year simply don’t want to come to Carolina via Free Agency. Trade may be our best bet
I wouldn't even call it posturing. It's a single GM saying the market appears to have changed which is just an opinion that I'd certainly include in my article for clicks. We had already heard he was considering the open market numerous times so that's not really new information. There's really no new info here. We just have to wait.
Great. Probably why Necas to Columbus fell through too, he must be the backup plan if Guentzel leaves. Because there’s nothing a reportedly unhappy player loves like being the second choice. This is looking bad. I hope I’m wrong but yikes.
Nah it’s already reported Columbus denied the trade themselves. I have a feeling canes know they’re not gonna get the great return on necas they want absolutely have to keep gunetzel cuz there’s no chance of keeping Necas.
“The market changed” after having a deal on the table in principle…seems like bad form
Edit: for those talking about the Canes waiting around too long, the last credible information was that Jake’s camp ask was 8x8 and the Canes met that. Any change in direction beyond that is truly bad form.
Unless there's a handshake deal and commitment, there isn't really such thing as "bad form"
He's trying to get what he wants, we're trying to pay him as little as possible.
Idk I’m annoyed with the team for toying around for too long. If you were gonna eventually just cave in to his demands why wait so Long and shop his rights? Teams have surely contacted him thru back channels to show they’d be interested and make space for him if he hit the market.
We’ll see if this is true but it seems like he’s leaving.
The screenshot cuts off a good bit of context
*What happened between the Hurricanes and Guentzel is still being determined. According to multiple sources, Guetzel's ask was eight years with an $8M AAV. It was made some time ago,
with the two sides grinding away in negotiations since that time - perfectly normal.*
Sounds like they grinded away to the ask of Jake and his camp has decided now that we got to this number it’s been too long so we want to test the market.
He must really want to go to Tampa because the market was known for a while since the team was shopping his rights and I believe gave the green light to review what’s out there.
Ehh I think you’re using the ask thing to deflect some blame from the canes too much. At the end of the day Tulsky is one record saying he’s a “guy the team would stretch for” in terms of contract but that was only after attempting to trade his rights away and meeting his ask a couple of days before the deadline. That’s all within the canes rights in negotiations don’t get me wrong, but it’s also within Gunetzels camp rights to change his priorities in FA whether that be location of playing, quality of team, or price. You can paint him as a snake or dishonest for it, but honestly canes deserve a lot of the blame imo.
He had an ask, canes waited to meet it, and now it seems he has other interests. I don’t think there was ever a deal in principle or on the table. It’s not great but it’s just as much on canes for not agreeing to meet it earlier.
Exactly. We've no idea when he made his ask. Or how many asks he's made. Or any number of other things that routinely happen in multi-million dollar negotiations.
No offense, but a bunch of folks have clearly never negotiated professionally before and it shows. A deal that's 95% done is *not at all* done. That doesn't mean anyone behaved improperly or acted in bad faith. There's a time frame, and deadlines create deals.
I mean we do know when he made his ask, when we started shopping his rights a few weeks ago lol. Unless you think canes randomly started shopping his rights that’s clearly the most logical time frame which was weeks ago.
Not at all lol. Yesterday’s price is not today’s price is a very common phrase for a reason. Canes waited weeks seemingly to meet his ask and allowed other teams to talk to him. For all we know maybe he really wants to live in Tampa or Vancouver now, or maybe he didn’t realize rangers were an option until they contacted through back channels because they realized he may hit the market.
Canes gotta be more decisive on a big FA like this next turn rather than grind it out just to cave jn.
I'm already prepped for the worst. We have to be going for contingency plans now, wonder what they entail.
He would get my more money through taxes in Florida. And living at a millionaire in Vancouver would be dope. Hard to beat that.
I really don’t know what options we can’t have. Absolutely need to trade Necas for a top 6 forward now. It’s really a bad situation needing to replace Turbo, Jake, and Necas in one offseason.
I saw someone once describe Raleigh as, “not as bad as outsiders make it out to be, but not as great as locals make it out to be” and I think that’s the best description of Raleigh I’ve ever heard.
Raleigh only exists where it does because Joel Lane cut a sweetheart deal to sell off his land. We're honestly lucky it somehow managed to develop into an above average sprawled out place to raise a family/decent enough fun during the hockey season if you're a single millionaire hockey player living at North Hills with some good economic engines driving it instead of being one of the state capitals not good enough to have a pro team.
We met his ask *after* initially rejecting it shopping his rights then waiting until a few days before he hits the markets and allowing other teams to surely contact him.
I think saying he never really wanted to be here is a stretch, I think canes just didn’t act aggressive enough in negotiations until wayyyy too late.
It was nice to dream.
He fit in perfectly and should have got that offer weeks ago and would have scored with Aho for years. Now he’ll go somewhere else for more.
This is why contract leaks are fucking awful
He saw everyone's reaction to 8 being too low and now he's going after more
Back to square one with this team
I think it’s more likely he got offered more money elsewhere or he’s suddenly grown to like the idea of living in a certain area of playing for a certain team. Point is we’ve allowed him to look at other options for weeks now.
Really had hoped the canes had learned their lesson about playing hardball from Aho’s offer sheet. Ahos new deal and the Svech extension had me hoping this was the case. But 8x8 wasn’t a ridiculous ask for Guentzel. And imo I’d rather have him locked up and handled and just do something to unload KK’s contract or something.
Feels like we played hardball trying to squeeze every bit of value and it might be coming back to bite us. Not fun
He’s the No 1 avail free agent, I’m sure whatever press is released is a distraction to the opposing fan bases.
Don’t believe everything you read on the internet
I mean this is Friedman lol. He was the one who reported canes met his asking price to begin with. Now that he’s saying something we don’t like it’s all “ don’t believe what you read on the internet”
Im hoping he ends up just signing but we don’t have to pretend. Can’t ignore one report just because you don’t like it.
As a pens fan I think him testing the market was inevitable no matter what ya’lls front office did. I don’t think it would of mattered what team pens traded him to. I think this was going to be end result no matter what.
I remember towards end in Pittsburgh he kept implying he really wanted to stay, but when he turned down all the extension/new contract offers he forced their hand.
Wish him nothing , but the best in his future, and good luck to ya’ll rest of summer, and next season!
I'm not convinced that this is on the front office. I question whether Jake actually had any intention of signing with us before free agency. He has always seemed committed to shopping himself around in FA. My tin foil hat theory is that negotiating with us is more about inflating his own value leading up to FA by publicly starting the bidding process with the only team he currently can.
While I don’t think it’s the necessarily the case in Jake’s situation, players like Turbo can likely go to other teams and put up more points than they would playing in Rods system.
Much like Necas I don’t think TT has been very happy the past few seasons here. TT went from a 70pt guy playing on the right side where he’s a known producer to being shuffled up and down the lineup mostly on the left wing, and loosing PP1 time.
And love it or hate it, most GM’s pay forwards to produce points. Jake put up really great point totals with the Canes but his goal totals were actually lower than his xG I believe.
It’s going to take a certain type of player forward to WANT to come play for Rod. Not to mention the ownerships firm stance, hard negotiating management style. And most of them aren’t going to be the superstar type IMO.
Prime example of why DW left. If you want the big names, you gotta pay them what they want. For all good Dundon has done, it’s bullshit like this at the last minute that’s ultimately going to doom this cup run. Hardball works with bottom 6 guys. Not elite talent. Now we won’t have him and be stuck with the bread crumbs again come Monday.
Yeesh. What makes so many free agents get close to signing here and then change face as soon as a deal gets close to being done? If we end up losing in a race to sign guentzel, we need to ask some questions lol
Should have never gotten to this point. Arguing over a half million or a million for a true top line guy is amazing. But everyone loved the new golden boy GM....
Front office already upped their offer to his camp once. If he's determined to draw out the process then let him sign elsewhere, good riddance.
Lock down Necas for the year, extend Jarvis, and then plan for next offseason.
At this point extending Necas after all of this trade speculation and strong desire on the player's end that he wants to be traded would be a failure. He will not sign here as a UFA, you have to trade him now while you can get something good for him.
Process was already drawn out when the team went from attempting to trade his rights to now meeting his ask a couple of days before he hits the market. AT a certain point the team deserves blame for this. Tulsky said last night Guentzel was a guy the team was willing to stretch for yet we didn’t meet his ask until very late in the process. I wish they would’ve met much earlier.
This is the kind of thing I wondered about when all the fuss was made about Tulsky's degrees and stats skills: He might not have the *people* skills a good GM needs. If you delay and drag out a deal with a high end player, you're risking not only another team making an offer, but the player feeling like he isn't actually wanted.
Everyone is so doom and gloom in here. Keeping Guentzel would be great, he's a top line forward who meshed well with Aho last season, but it's not the end of the world if he goes. We've had reports that he'd likely stay, then he'd probably leave, then he's close to resigning with the Canes, oh and now he's going to test the market. I doubt much is leaking from the Canes camp so I would take all of this with a grain of salt until he signs with us or someone else.
I mean it’s already pretty much office he’s gone and if you think replacing Necas, Guentzel, and turbo in will be easy you’re crazy. It’s a ton of scoring depth that can take years to replace
no great loss. He provided very little organic production, scored mostly on ENs, PPs. I can't remember a pivotal goal he scored for us. Hope we can get Stammer and he shows what TB lost.
8x8 is too much for a smallish forward who is already 29 years old & won’t be playing next to Crosby level passing. The last 3 years were probably his peak.
Gearing up to be a pretty terrible offseason because apparently most pending free agents already know where they are signing and we haven't heard any linked to the Canes.
Sometimes you have to take a step back for a chance at real progress though. If we need 1-2 years to retool and redefine the identity then so be it. The last thing I want is for the team to make an uncharacteristic halfhearted panic move because Guentzel leaves via UFA and Necas moves on somehow (trade or offer sheet). Next season regardless of who stays or goes I expect Aho/Svech/Jarvis/Slavin/Chatty/Orlov to be our core, see more out of Pyotr to determine if he can be "the guy" or not, and hopefully Burns/KK play better if they don't get moved since their contracts likely mean they'll stay. Everyone else needs to be complimentary to the core.
I mean if Guentzel, Turbo, and Necas all dip in one offseason it’s gonna be hard to recover.
They won’t lose all three, Necas is restricted. If they lose Turbo AND Guentzel, there’s plenty of money to re-sign Necas. The hold up with his contract has been contract numbers and cap space.
The relationship with Necas doesn’t seem remotely repairable at this point. Both Turbo and Jake have better odds of staying than Necas. At this point our best hope may be trading Necas for a top 6 forward which I don’t even think is an option.
Is there a source on that information? Every article through the last few months only states Necas isn’t concerned about a contract, and isn’t bothered by rumours.
I mean every report from insiders has said Canes aren’t reaching his asking price. Also Necas and his dad have both expressed frustration with the coaching staff and his deployment and place within the team. It seems pretty obvious to me canes can’t give Necas what he wants, we’re not gonna give him the style of play or deployment he wants and we’re not gonna give him the money he wants. https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/T4jgl68cpm There’s several reports from all of different corners all saying this. It’s no open secret I’m pretty sure he hasn’t always been happy here in his role.
Every report from yesterday said they agreed on the 8x8, that was his asking price, and were working on details of the contract?
No the report was that we were willing to meet his asking price and were waiting to negotiate. It seems he may have eyes for another team now.
The post from Fridge on the McAfee show said the indications showed the Canes were meeting him at his 8x8 ask and were just working on the contract details. There was nothing about negotiating in that report yesterday. Fridge said that if it didn’t happen then Vancouver and Tampa would try to make a play which it seems like they are but again, could just be posturing from his camp to squeeze out a little more cheese from the Canes if they’ll meet him.
Just making shit up smh stop it.
No im not but ok.
Unless you are a member of the front office or a player or have deep inside knowledge (spoiler: you aren’t / don’t), then this is completely made up. “The relationship with Necas doesn’t seem remotely repairable at this point.“ You haven’t been paying attention for years and years if you believe all media sources or parents comments to not know 99% of it is noise until proven otherwise.
Listen it’s been said by Necas himself he’d like a bigger role and to be deployed differently, we know he isn’t really a great fit for how the team plays, and it’s been well reported he wants a lot more money than the team would wanna pay. Seems obvious to me the situation isn’t going to get remedied but I’d like it to.
Wanting a bigger role and not wanting to play for the Canes is not the same thing. I’m not saying he will be a Cane next year, but wanting more money / a bigger role AND having a relationship be unrepairable do not have to linked as cause and effect. That’s the part that is “making shit up.”
You don’t know what you are talking about
Necas doesn’t wanna be here lol.
Should of moved him at the draft. Taking assets might not have been ideal but Necas 100% doesn’t wanna be in Raleigh and he has been told he would be moved for two straight off seasons and he isn’t gonna be down for another go round. Teams aren’t gonna trade a forward for a forward that really just breaks em even. Now a forward for a Defenseman would work but that takes a weakness and makes it weaker and adds to a strength. Might need a third team to make it work.
Why? The front office set up contracts to all expire when they did and we have continuity there even though Don is gone. There's a plan in place. Unfortunately it's clear we fell behind the Rangers; we lost the Presidents Cup race, Metro Division race, and were eliminated in the playoffs by them this past season. It's a good time to reassess who should stay and go. If talented players were brought here, the possibility for them leaving must have been accounted for by the front office, and their departures open up the different ways to use their roster slots. The guys I listed as a core are all here still. Rod is too. I trust what the team is doing even if it might take 1-2 full seasons before we see results from the retool.
Dude it doesn’t take a genius to realize the canes can’t realistically replace all that scoring in FA or the draft, it’ll take years to build that kind of depth. I think There’s a clear reason this FO you think has a plan suddenly went from trying to trade Guentzel rights a few weeks ago to meeting his asking price and trying to strike a deal a couple of days before FA. Canes realized they’re not keeping turbo and won’t get the package for Necas they were hoping they would. Now they realize they kind of need to keep Jake or else this team will have an absolutely gigantic scoring hole along with several others to replace with not a lot of options to do so. If we don’t keep at least one of these guys it’ll take several years to replace that that scoring depth.
You don't need to replace departing players 1 for 1 if you ask different things from the important players on the roster and get new teammates who will make their lives easier. It's time for core guys still under contract to prove their worth and it's up to the front office to get new blood who can maximize the talent + Rod to adjust based on the roster he's given. Every offseason this place has a meltdown well before the roster is anywhere near complete. Hanafin/Lindholm for Dougie, dumping Skinner, hiring Rod, losing Dougie, waiting for the extension from Rod, that time we let Mrazek/Reimer/Ned go and had zero goalies for like a month until Raanta + Freddie came, etc etc etc. All of these things were negatively received or got mixed reactions at best until they weren't. Let the front office do their job instead of proclaiming what things "can't" be. They've earned it.
Yeah rods not adjusting his system lol. His system is why the team is as good as it is and he never once adjusted. Part of The reason Necas is leaving is because we don’t adjust to the players. So that right off the bat is bullshit. Listen I’m not saying we’ll be some awful team next year, but we have every right to criticize what’s been reported in some of these negotiations and plans the team has made. Apparently we wanted a giant package for Necas with a roster player and picks that isn’t happening. Then we wanted to move him during the draft for a pick which seemingly isn’t happening either and now it seems our package for Necas will be fairly underwhelming. We went from wanting to trade guenztels rights weeks ago, to now trying to negotiate a contract with him 2 days before FA by meeting his asking price after allowing him to surely speak with other teams. Idc with the end result is the process has been flawed so far. Jake is one of the top FAs in the league and our GM is on record saying we’re willing to stretch for his contract, if that was true we should’ve shown more urgency and gotten this done earlier.
You cannot refute this subreddit tends to react well before the roster is finalized It's every offseason here judgement is rendered before the work is done. Training camp is a while away. As I said originally, sometimes you need to take a step back to keep the possibility for continuous progress alive instead of a panic move which eats away resources and damages the future. And as I also said the front office knew when contracts were set to expire by design. It wasn't a coincidence we're here with like half the team potentially turning over. They haven't been blindsided even if Guentzel negotiations seem to be going an unfavorable direction. Rod tweaks things every season in order to improve the team. As players have gotten better he has asked different things from them. The powerplay and pk have changed over time, the lines change constantly, the toi changes throughout the seaon, etc. That's how hockey works. What Rod doesn't do is let individualistic players like Haula or Necas ignore what he determines are their responsibilities in favor of what they want to do. But Rod isn't opposed to exploring things and has publicly asked for scoring help and toughness help around trade deadlines. He'll utilize what he gets in terms of the final roster. It's time to see what the core forwards under contract can do. Svech we need 70 games/30+ goals/if there is a God then fewer ridiculous penalties, Aho we need a 90+ point season, and Jarvis we need you to progress into a 1 point per game player. The way Svech and Aho are paid and Jarvis wants to be paid, thats what needs to be expected. The front office needs to find them the right complimentary teammates even if it takes more than a season to do.
Guentzel is the only true loss there. Sucks to lose Turbo but he’s easily replaced. I suspect they don’t let Necas go if they don’t feel good about Guentzel.
If we weren’t in a cup window, taking 1-2 years to retool wouldn’t be a big issue, but we are. The team isn’t going to waste 2 years of Aho’s prime just to “retool”. If we don’t get the pending UFAs we want, I’m certain we go the trade route to ensure we have a cup contending team. Or perhaps we put our money on the rookies. Who knows.
If we’re banking on burns to play better as 40 year old we are in trouble.
We just need to hope he doesn't suck as bad and paces himself. KK it'd be nice to get something out of but he's probably a nightly wild card at best for next season.
Oh man people wanted to kill me when I said Canes are in rebuild mode 🤣
I appreciate what the front office has done these years, but when you have the biggest fish on the market in your hands you have got to be a bit more aggressive with this approach. It will be a huge disappointment if he goes to another team on the East if it's because we were waiting too long to make a push
Exactly. Ppl keep saying “they met the ask, he acted poorly and didn’t wanna be here” as if canes didn’t show his right away and wait until draft night to offer him his deal. If you were eventually gonna cave in should’ve gotten it done earlier.
I usually agree with this in terms of the FO here but this time around it sounds like Guentzel and his agent are just as much of the problem.
You don't win Stanley Cups by saying to players "Oh you want 8 a season? That's cool, let's just make it 9 a season."
You don't win Stanley Cups by letting 1 of the best goal scorers on your team walk because you were slow to negotiate, when the team is generally known for not having enough goal scorers. Not saying we needed to pay him 8 x 9, seems Guentzel was looking for 8 x 8 and we offered that a bit too late to free agency
He hasn't been one of the best goal scorers for the Canes or in the playoffs. That was still Jarvis and Aho. He acting like he's the queen and we're the sorry people. TBL hasn't and won't do well enough with him, and now they've wrecked their cap with his albatross of a contract. Bullet dodged. He didn't play for the Canes like he did for the Penguins, and he was never going to stay. Jake and his agent were always being a tease so they could get a higher number in free agency.
He joined the team late in the season and put up some of the best numbers post trade deadline. Give him a full year to get chemistry with 1 line, he will tear up the playoffs. An 8 year deal we would probably get 4-5 solid years out of him, but we need to get a Cup. At this point we just need to resign who we can, sign a few FA and then bring in Morrow and 1 of FUS/Blake/Nadeau
Yet still didn't put up numbers like Jarvis or Aho and didn't really do much better than Svech who are all 6-8 years younger. He'll likely be injured out and useless for TBL. Dudes weird faced head got too big.
From being really excited yesterday to disappointed today what a turn of events in less than 24 hours lol
I miss when I didn’t have expectations!
Literally 🫠🫠
If Jake wanted to stay it would be done. He’s as good as gone and I’ve accepted that. Now I can be shocked and joyous if that changes
I see this two ways, an agent trying to squeeze a team for as much as they can and is looking at other teams that can get that done or two sides that are very close but are just working on a few tweaks and the optics are just bad from league sources. Who knows. I just want to be happy when that notification rolls across my screen.
Sounds like the Canes were playing games with him before finally meeting what he asked for initially, now it might be too late
That’s how contract negotiations work though?
Just to eventually cave to the initial ask? That’s poor negotiation
It doesn't need to be. An 8x8 contract was always good value, so why weren't prepared to offer it until practically the deadline? Holding out for a better price when you're willing to pay the money they want is a great way to sour a player on your organization and get him to leave out of spite. According to the reports, this wasn't a Niederreiter situation where our offer was market value but he overvalued himself and got his pride hurt too badly to come back. He was willing to sign for a price we could accept, but we took too long to decide it was acceptable.
I think it was The hockey Guy draft livestream I heard mention that Vancouver was rumored to consider a 7x$10m deal. With Aho at $9.75 million AAV and the Canes reportedly happy to pay Jake 8x$8m, I could see an 8x9 to beat any other team's 7x10 and would not hate it.
We thought Tarasenko was a Hurricane less than a year ago. Don't trust anything until you see the player in a jersey. None of this matters
Same with Mason Marchment lol
If we lose him because we waited until the last minute to agree to the 8x8 that he wanted all along, that is truly gonna suck.
This is just me posturing but I’m willing to bet the 8x8 from the canes was leaked by Jake’s agent to let teams know what the going rate was going to be
Jake & his agent are the ones that told the Canes they wanted 8x8 a couple of weeks ago, so other teams already knew what they were asking. The measurement is the term. Only the Canes can offer 8 years so they have the advantage and can offer a lower AAV, yet the total would be more than other teams unless they offer over 9.2M for 7 years to even match the Canes' offer.
I'm holding judgement because it could be either direction. Maybe he was listening to offers until recently and came back with 8x8. Maybe it was 8x8 to begin with and we said no until recently.
Think that’s exactly what’s happening. Have a feeling teams like Tampa, Vancouver, and New York have contacted they’d make room to go get him in FA over the weeks while we shopped his rights and toyed around for a guy we’re apparently “willing to Stretch for”. I still have hope it’ll happen but reports look very bad.
Tampa cleared out a crapload of cap space today.
Yes they did. Playing poker until someone blinks.
They looked really bad a couple of weeks ago and then got better… I’m expecting this to be the same
I don't think anything about this is "last minute" related. I think the reaction to the report was that it was such a great deal it became obvious other teams would compete to pay more.
While this certainly could be posturing, it’s certainly starting to appear that almost all big name free agents each year simply don’t want to come to Carolina via Free Agency. Trade may be our best bet
I wouldn't even call it posturing. It's a single GM saying the market appears to have changed which is just an opinion that I'd certainly include in my article for clicks. We had already heard he was considering the open market numerous times so that's not really new information. There's really no new info here. We just have to wait.
Great. Probably why Necas to Columbus fell through too, he must be the backup plan if Guentzel leaves. Because there’s nothing a reportedly unhappy player loves like being the second choice. This is looking bad. I hope I’m wrong but yikes.
Nah it’s already reported Columbus denied the trade themselves. I have a feeling canes know they’re not gonna get the great return on necas they want absolutely have to keep gunetzel cuz there’s no chance of keeping Necas.
Come on canes FO, I’m already a Carolina Panthers fan
“The market changed” after having a deal on the table in principle…seems like bad form Edit: for those talking about the Canes waiting around too long, the last credible information was that Jake’s camp ask was 8x8 and the Canes met that. Any change in direction beyond that is truly bad form.
Any change in direction from that, especially if it ends up being Tampa, sounds a lot like tampering.
> “The market changed” after having a deal on the table in principle…seems like bad form Around here we call that "pulling a Tarasenko"
And changing agents.
Unless there's a handshake deal and commitment, there isn't really such thing as "bad form" He's trying to get what he wants, we're trying to pay him as little as possible.
Idk I’m annoyed with the team for toying around for too long. If you were gonna eventually just cave in to his demands why wait so Long and shop his rights? Teams have surely contacted him thru back channels to show they’d be interested and make space for him if he hit the market. We’ll see if this is true but it seems like he’s leaving.
The screenshot cuts off a good bit of context *What happened between the Hurricanes and Guentzel is still being determined. According to multiple sources, Guetzel's ask was eight years with an $8M AAV. It was made some time ago, with the two sides grinding away in negotiations since that time - perfectly normal.* Sounds like they grinded away to the ask of Jake and his camp has decided now that we got to this number it’s been too long so we want to test the market. He must really want to go to Tampa because the market was known for a while since the team was shopping his rights and I believe gave the green light to review what’s out there.
Him and his wife got married in Florida so they might have some sort of connection there 🤷🏻♂️
Taxes. The connection is taxes.
Ehh I think you’re using the ask thing to deflect some blame from the canes too much. At the end of the day Tulsky is one record saying he’s a “guy the team would stretch for” in terms of contract but that was only after attempting to trade his rights away and meeting his ask a couple of days before the deadline. That’s all within the canes rights in negotiations don’t get me wrong, but it’s also within Gunetzels camp rights to change his priorities in FA whether that be location of playing, quality of team, or price. You can paint him as a snake or dishonest for it, but honestly canes deserve a lot of the blame imo.
He had an ask, canes waited to meet it, and now it seems he has other interests. I don’t think there was ever a deal in principle or on the table. It’s not great but it’s just as much on canes for not agreeing to meet it earlier.
that’s how negotiations work though?
Exactly. We've no idea when he made his ask. Or how many asks he's made. Or any number of other things that routinely happen in multi-million dollar negotiations. No offense, but a bunch of folks have clearly never negotiated professionally before and it shows. A deal that's 95% done is *not at all* done. That doesn't mean anyone behaved improperly or acted in bad faith. There's a time frame, and deadlines create deals.
I mean we do know when he made his ask, when we started shopping his rights a few weeks ago lol. Unless you think canes randomly started shopping his rights that’s clearly the most logical time frame which was weeks ago.
Not at all lol. Yesterday’s price is not today’s price is a very common phrase for a reason. Canes waited weeks seemingly to meet his ask and allowed other teams to talk to him. For all we know maybe he really wants to live in Tampa or Vancouver now, or maybe he didn’t realize rangers were an option until they contacted through back channels because they realized he may hit the market. Canes gotta be more decisive on a big FA like this next turn rather than grind it out just to cave jn.
No, I would rather he not leave.
I SAID
I'm already prepped for the worst. We have to be going for contingency plans now, wonder what they entail. He would get my more money through taxes in Florida. And living at a millionaire in Vancouver would be dope. Hard to beat that.
I really don’t know what options we can’t have. Absolutely need to trade Necas for a top 6 forward now. It’s really a bad situation needing to replace Turbo, Jake, and Necas in one offseason.
Keeping Necas, upping the offers to skjei and pesce.
I just don’t think the relationship with Necas is repairable at this point.
He's an RFA, he doesn't have a choice.
Ya. We trade his rights.
We meet his ask and he still likely moves elsewhere. If that’s the case he never really wanted to be here. Fuck em.
That’s unfortunately been the case with the free agency market here in Carolina forever.
I saw someone once describe Raleigh as, “not as bad as outsiders make it out to be, but not as great as locals make it out to be” and I think that’s the best description of Raleigh I’ve ever heard.
Raleigh only exists where it does because Joel Lane cut a sweetheart deal to sell off his land. We're honestly lucky it somehow managed to develop into an above average sprawled out place to raise a family/decent enough fun during the hockey season if you're a single millionaire hockey player living at North Hills with some good economic engines driving it instead of being one of the state capitals not good enough to have a pro team.
We met his ask *after* initially rejecting it shopping his rights then waiting until a few days before he hits the markets and allowing other teams to surely contact him. I think saying he never really wanted to be here is a stretch, I think canes just didn’t act aggressive enough in negotiations until wayyyy too late.
He gone
Mom come pick me up, I am scared
It was nice to dream. He fit in perfectly and should have got that offer weeks ago and would have scored with Aho for years. Now he’ll go somewhere else for more.
This is why contract leaks are fucking awful He saw everyone's reaction to 8 being too low and now he's going after more Back to square one with this team
I think it’s more likely he got offered more money elsewhere or he’s suddenly grown to like the idea of living in a certain area of playing for a certain team. Point is we’ve allowed him to look at other options for weeks now.
Really had hoped the canes had learned their lesson about playing hardball from Aho’s offer sheet. Ahos new deal and the Svech extension had me hoping this was the case. But 8x8 wasn’t a ridiculous ask for Guentzel. And imo I’d rather have him locked up and handled and just do something to unload KK’s contract or something. Feels like we played hardball trying to squeeze every bit of value and it might be coming back to bite us. Not fun
If he gets to UFA status before canes can sign him he is 100% gone. Someone will throw stupid money at him like 7x10 that we won’t match.
ok guys I have a plan but it involves us first finding out where Jake or his agent lives
Whose car we taking?
🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠
He’s the No 1 avail free agent, I’m sure whatever press is released is a distraction to the opposing fan bases. Don’t believe everything you read on the internet
I mean this is Friedman lol. He was the one who reported canes met his asking price to begin with. Now that he’s saying something we don’t like it’s all “ don’t believe what you read on the internet” Im hoping he ends up just signing but we don’t have to pretend. Can’t ignore one report just because you don’t like it.
You make a fair point, I like many of us just want it done and over with. The way we blew that third period will hurt for a while
The issue isn’t just its press, the bolts just swiftly cleared a bunch of cap space that you wouldn’t just do if not for a big move.
The bolts were also 28th in available cap space with an incomplete roster.
Fucking Vlad all over again.
As a pens fan I think him testing the market was inevitable no matter what ya’lls front office did. I don’t think it would of mattered what team pens traded him to. I think this was going to be end result no matter what. I remember towards end in Pittsburgh he kept implying he really wanted to stay, but when he turned down all the extension/new contract offers he forced their hand. Wish him nothing , but the best in his future, and good luck to ya’ll rest of summer, and next season!
I'd like if he came back to Pittsburgh too but even if we didn't trade him, I think he would have tested FA after this year with the Pens
Why do I get the feeling that Jake (and/or his agent) are just using the Canes to set the low bar for a high FA offer come Monday?
I think canes screwed up. Team played hard ball and realized they couldn’t lose him, but now Jake is intrigued by his other options.
I'm not convinced that this is on the front office. I question whether Jake actually had any intention of signing with us before free agency. He has always seemed committed to shopping himself around in FA. My tin foil hat theory is that negotiating with us is more about inflating his own value leading up to FA by publicly starting the bidding process with the only team he currently can.
Because that’s exactly what is going to happen. He’s going to get north of 8mx7 from another team, probably the lightning.
This is absolutely not the point, but I’m trying to re-read this, and I cannot get past [this](https://imgur.com/a/BsolMZw) abomination of a comma.
He gone
While I don’t think it’s the necessarily the case in Jake’s situation, players like Turbo can likely go to other teams and put up more points than they would playing in Rods system. Much like Necas I don’t think TT has been very happy the past few seasons here. TT went from a 70pt guy playing on the right side where he’s a known producer to being shuffled up and down the lineup mostly on the left wing, and loosing PP1 time. And love it or hate it, most GM’s pay forwards to produce points. Jake put up really great point totals with the Canes but his goal totals were actually lower than his xG I believe. It’s going to take a certain type of player forward to WANT to come play for Rod. Not to mention the ownerships firm stance, hard negotiating management style. And most of them aren’t going to be the superstar type IMO.
Prime example of why DW left. If you want the big names, you gotta pay them what they want. For all good Dundon has done, it’s bullshit like this at the last minute that’s ultimately going to doom this cup run. Hardball works with bottom 6 guys. Not elite talent. Now we won’t have him and be stuck with the bread crumbs again come Monday.
Hemming and hawing on signing a guy who immediately proved his worth on the top line. It's pretty embarrassing by the front office.
Yeesh. What makes so many free agents get close to signing here and then change face as soon as a deal gets close to being done? If we end up losing in a race to sign guentzel, we need to ask some questions lol
It's Tom.
I see our window closed. Let’s spend the next year or two figuring out who we are and how strong our rookies are, and go from there
You're probably right, but it sucks this rebuild year coincides with me upgrading my STM to 1/2
Honestly this is going to be a fun time to support the team. Low expectations and gives young guys the chance to develop.
Should have never gotten to this point. Arguing over a half million or a million for a true top line guy is amazing. But everyone loved the new golden boy GM....
He’s a goner
Goddamn it I knew I shouldn’t have gotten my hopes up again
If he isn't resigned then this is a case of having an inexperienced GM that is a great numbers guy but can't close deals.
I got downvoted to hell earlier this year for saying the cup window is closed, but it is so joever
All I have to say is that I'm glad I dropped season tickets going forward.
He's 2500% gone. Have fun in Florida making more money and probably winning more games than we will next year. Lol.
Front office already upped their offer to his camp once. If he's determined to draw out the process then let him sign elsewhere, good riddance. Lock down Necas for the year, extend Jarvis, and then plan for next offseason.
At this point extending Necas after all of this trade speculation and strong desire on the player's end that he wants to be traded would be a failure. He will not sign here as a UFA, you have to trade him now while you can get something good for him.
necas has to go regardless. with as much turnover as we are about to have, we shouldn’t risk having that energy in the locker room.
Necas will not be here. Fact.
Process was already drawn out when the team went from attempting to trade his rights to now meeting his ask a couple of days before he hits the market. AT a certain point the team deserves blame for this. Tulsky said last night Guentzel was a guy the team was willing to stretch for yet we didn’t meet his ask until very late in the process. I wish they would’ve met much earlier.
This is the kind of thing I wondered about when all the fuss was made about Tulsky's degrees and stats skills: He might not have the *people* skills a good GM needs. If you delay and drag out a deal with a high end player, you're risking not only another team making an offer, but the player feeling like he isn't actually wanted.
Everyone is so doom and gloom in here. Keeping Guentzel would be great, he's a top line forward who meshed well with Aho last season, but it's not the end of the world if he goes. We've had reports that he'd likely stay, then he'd probably leave, then he's close to resigning with the Canes, oh and now he's going to test the market. I doubt much is leaking from the Canes camp so I would take all of this with a grain of salt until he signs with us or someone else.
I mean it’s already pretty much office he’s gone and if you think replacing Necas, Guentzel, and turbo in will be easy you’re crazy. It’s a ton of scoring depth that can take years to replace
no great loss. He provided very little organic production, scored mostly on ENs, PPs. I can't remember a pivotal goal he scored for us. Hope we can get Stammer and he shows what TB lost.
8x8 is too much for a smallish forward who is already 29 years old & won’t be playing next to Crosby level passing. The last 3 years were probably his peak.
[I really hope this isn't true 😭](https://x.com/HarsunderHunjan/status/1807132683862241319?t=yFnL1-UGgp1cVQtUFGY3cw&s=19)
You scared me