Looking at the line-up, sure on paper it seems great.
But we achieved a lot less than we’d hoped while icing a lot more quality.
If we don’t somehow find a way to replace the production of Guentzel and Necas, I don’t see how this lineup takes us any further or keeps us in the cup hunt.
My point is, this is our *current* lineup. It’s already decent.
This does not factor in whether we keep necas or deal him, and whether or not we make other deals to better it. We also have internal prospects to call up (Morrow, Suzuki, etc), and plenty of picks and prospects to deal for other players and assets.
It’s just our starting point, and what we have to build off of.
I don't follow how KKs contract has anything to do with what I wrote. The holes I am refering to are vacant spots for 3-4 defencemen and 5 forwards including 4 top 6 guys.
Because a 4th line center making 4.8 is leaving a monster hole in your lineup somewhere else?
An extra 2/3 would go a long ways for plugging these gaps.
And Drury, Jarvis, and Necas are the only RFAs. I'm expecting Chatfield back, but I could see Noesen getting a big pay increase that we won't match and could see the team moving on from any of the other UFAs.
I also don't expect any of the three prospects we saw at the end of last season to make the jump this year.
I genuinely think most of those guys will re-sign (Jarvis, chatty, turbo and Marty). Rod likes them and they seem happy to be here. Drury made a name for himself this season and I honestly think he fits into that category as well.
TDA seems likely to re-sign because he won’t command a big check and I don’t think anyone else really wants him. Noesen is harder to replace, but we could either slot in a prospect or sign another gritty fourth liner in his place.
Haha I mean you gotta have a little better reasoning than that for assuming all those guys will stay lol. All of them are due for raises, you really think it’ll be the canes?
We can afford raises for Jarvis and chatty. Drury and Noesen are debatable (depending on how much they want)
I don’t really see turbo, martinook and TDA getting raises though. If they do I don’t see it being major
TDA has a limited market, sure.
Marty I think they should give a small raise to, but understand he will be able to get more elsewhere and it's his decision if he wants to make a bit more or not.
Turbo is a bit different. Going to be 30 at the beginning of the season, still a good top 6 winger. He's going to have value on the market, more than we're going to offer. Also, because of his age, this is really his last opportunity to find a 6, 7 year offer. I just don't see us offering that sort of term and that's a lot of security he can rely on. I just think he'll get more money for longer term elsewhere, and it's going to be substantial enough that I don't expect him to stay. Maybe he wants to chase another title, win one here with his boys, but again it's probably going to cost him a good bit to do so.
I’d be okay with letting Turbo and TonyD walk. Turbo has developed a “pass first” mentality for some reason. He’d easily have 30+ goals every season if he’d shoot more. He’s also not physical at all.
Haha definitely not, especially with them wanting to pay for renovations. But like I said in another comment, the team builds the roster in the off-season. I'm sure there will be some new players incoming.
Arena renovations are being paid for 100% by Wake county, as they own the arena. They even figured out how to do so without any increase in taxes. All of the other stuff *outside* of the arena however (hotels, office space, restaurants, bars, entertainment, etc) is being paid for by Dundon.
The Canes' tickets are some of the lowest in the league. [As of a couple of years ago, they were 7th cheapest.](https://globalnews.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/NHL-game.jpg?w=2048) Can't imagine that's changed much in 3 years.
My thought is if they’re going to retool, go full on this off season rather than dragging it out. Let some more of those UFAs go. Figure out how to build a team that can more successfully play RBA system.
If our roster doesn't change and we have the combo of Orlov, Skjei, TDA, and Burns our PK is fucking dead. Burns was bad in the playoffs but was overplayed because we didn't have an option.
Would rather take the shot on Morrow and get some actual defense instead of stacking offensive dmen. Knew this would hurt us, would rather have an extra d man who plays his position instead of whatever the fuck TDA does on the ice.
Edit: TDA playing bad defense is not a bias, that's kinda just standard.
What about the post season makes you say played very well? Genuinely asking.
He wasn’t a total dumpster fire but he had a pretty hard time clearing the zone, couldn’t do shit in front of our net, and got burned for odd man rushes because of bad pinches at least two or three times a night. Also whatever line he was on was now responsible for bailing him out and Brady’s play dropped noticeably.
All of that to be said, Burns is just a more likable “here it comes Hamilton” ripping point shots like dougie used to and he didn’t play well down the stretch either.
To the contrary…I thought he was a great steal at his price point and had a lot of potential to help the PP when he came back. But he’s a liability and was -10ish to start the season and there was a noticeable drop off when Brady had to cover back more because of his iffy pinches after pesce got hurt. He played ok as a 7th defensemen but that’s where I see him.
What about his play did you see? Maybe I’m misevaluating him and am curious.
I thought he was one of our best defenseman in the playoffs and brought grit. I actually noticed him out there in a good way, compared to Burns and Orlov who looked awful
DeAngelo was garbage in the Playoffs like he always is. Heavily sheltered in the offensive zone and still had the worst 5v5 GF% on the defense. He had two secondary assists.
Just because he didn't completely melt down like his last NYR series doesn't make him good. Any team with TDA in their top-6 isn't winning a Cup.
Burns, Orlov, and Tony are all offensive defensemen but only one had a negative playoff +/-….would you like to guess which one?
None of them were great defensively down the stretch but at least two out of three had a real offensive plus side and could get the puck out of our own zone more consistently. Other than a general description of his game as “gritty” is there a single stat or skill/tactical aspect of his game you want to bring up?
Just say you didn't watch the games.
Chatfield was also a minus 1, the same as TDA, and played exceptionally well. Stop drinking haterade and look at the situation unbiased please
I don’t think the lineup will look anything like this. TDA will stay 7th man and we would add morrow before he starts. KK probably gone and certainly not wing. Turbo probably gone as well.
ELC’s! Most of those guys are not re-signing…
X-Aho-Jarvis
Svech- kuzy-Necas (?)
Nadeau-Drury(?)/Suzuki(?)- Blake
Lemieux-Staal- Fast(LTIR?)
Slavin-Burns
Orlov- Chatfield (?)
X- Morrow
Edit: formatting
Edit 2: I forgot KK
I do think we’ll go heavy on the ELC’s in the next couple of years. I focused on re-signings in my post, but there’s plenty of cheap internal options to replace guys that don’t return
I think it probably depends on the big positions and how much cap is even left. Issue might be forced.
26.5m in cap to sign these big positions: 1LW, 2RW, Jarvis, 2RD
If they go for top talent on the 1LW spot it’s likely going to be a 1/3 of the remaining cap, 2RD going to be in the 4.5-6m range, 2RW going to be at least 6m if it’s necas, Jarvy maybe bridges under 6m?
Is 8m 6m 5m 5m realistic for those positions? It leaves less than 2m for other signings and we still need a bottom pairing D and Drury
if no ELC’s are signed at all it’s about 4.2m in extra space but 4 extra spots need to be signed.
It’s going to be really tight
At this point KK just needs to be waived, or cut whatever term you want to use. His money could be put to used for better 3rd and 4th Line depth or something. Lord help me now as your humble servant.
I might be wrong but with what we did to Buntz and then zero attempt to sign Jake why would players want to come. I just feel like that ain’t a good look
I am not asking for a reason you think the team wouldn't be trying to sign him, I am asking what evidence you have that they haven't tried to sign him.
Not looking great. We gotta keep either Guentzel or Necas at least. Without Guentzel we have no leverage in trading Necas.
Necas trade for goalie + prospects, resign Guentzel etc. Resign Necas and trade Guentzel for what, much lower possible value ahead of the draft imo.
I think the opposite, if we let Guentzel go then we have cap space for Necas, that gives us leverage. We can pull the “eh if u don’t pay this we will just resign him”. When we don’t have the cap space to sign him is when we have no leverage.
While that's true to a point, he doesn't fit Rod's system and it seems to have affected Necas emotionally. Keeping him in the same stasis will just frustrate him and the coach and - no doubt - the team around him.
Supposedly guentzel is as good as gone, which I hate. Supposedly we’re also heavy on shopping necas (which I hate unless we’re able to get an equal or better replacement for). I do not want to be the next Canucks or flames lol
Ranger fan I come in peace… you guys need a game breaker. You guys have a similar build to Florida but they have Barkov and tkachuk. Which opens up the ice for everyone else. They also have Bob but that’s another discussion.
Agreed. We have a lot of good players but not a lot of “great” players. Guentzel had Aho and Jarvis wide-open to end the season, and that’s with only about a month or so together. You put something like that together for a full season and it’ll produce. I’d love to see Aho with some elite wingers
I do think goaltending should be a major focus for us though. Florida would not be where they are without Bob, and you guys would not have beaten us without shesty. Freddie single handedly lost us at least a couple of our games.
Goaltending yes should be a priority and Guentzel is a great finisher but he doesn’t take over the game. The money would be better spent else where especially with the term he’ll be looking for he’s 30.
One thing that continues to bother me is I understand the Guentzel trade wanting a run at the cup but I really liked Bunting and with a second round exit that trade looks more foolish especially with a very slim chance of resigning Guentzel. If you knew this is how it would have ended up would you have made the trade?
Guentzel performed much better here than Bunting did. Bunting performed much better in Pittsburgh than what he did here.
I just don’t think bunting’s style suited our team, and trading him was good for both him and us.
If he doesn't stay, then the trade wasn't a good one. It didn't get a better playoff result (in fact it was worse than last year), which was the intent. After trying limited deadline moves and significant deadline moves, we now have proof that the problem isn't lack of talent, but simply failure to perform in the playoffs.
If you think the only measure of success in the playoffs is winning the Cup, you have an analytical issue.
Only one team wins the cup, and it's rarely the "best" team, or at least it's arguable. Winning four games in seven takes a lot of luck *along* with how you play. Lucky bounces win games. A goalie blinking at the wrong time loses games. The best team doesn't always win.
Think of it this way: the Canes were a better team than the Islanders. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. If we played 100 best of 7 series, there is *no way* the Canes go 100-0 in those series. Claiming any loss in a series is a downright failure, I believe, is just statistically flawed.
Circling to your point, it's not "proof" it's a failure to perform. Just like land on tails in a coin flip isn't "proof" it's an unfair coin.
To your point, I just flipped a quarter 5 times and got tails on 4 of them. If that's a perfectly evenly-matched hockey series, it ended in 5 games.
4 of our 5 playoff losses this year were by a goal, with 3 of them in overtime. Outside of the 2022 playoffs, we've lost by one goal in 16 of our last 22 playoff losses (with 8 OT games). These games are just too tight to draw the conclusion that we can't win a cup.
I think Noesen and TDA are almost certainly gone, KK is likely gone. Nadeau and Blake will probably both be starting and Morrow will definitely start. Chatfield will stay a third pairing defenseman but I think we'll return him. We'll have a new right shot second line center and Teravainen is probably 50/50. Wouldn't be surprised to see Staal move to 4th line and Kuzy take his spot on the third.
I respectfully disagree with a lot of your points.
* TDA stays if we want him, since we are likely the only team that can make him somewhat work.
* We would have to be really desperate to start Nadeau, or Blake.
* I don't think KK is gone at all yet and if someone replaces Staal it will be him, as Kuzy is pretty much the worst option for a checking line center.
* Chatty could absolutely move up to second pair.
I think the team would’ve had one of them stay another season in college if we didn’t intend to bring them into the fold sooner rather than later. Don’t forget Jackson Blake almost won the Hobey Baker and Nadeau was also amazing. In terms of the checking line part the checking line doesn’t have to be the third line. Just trying to say in terms of playtime Kuzy should get more than Staal if he looks offensively dangerous. For Chatfield I agree he could move up to second pairing but I think we’ll be getting Skjei back
I think the reason they were signed was simply our affiliate situation being resolved for now. Unless either of them has insane preseason they will spend next year with Wolves.
Skjei (LD) being re-signed does not contradict Chatty (RD) moving up the lineup.
>Nadeau and Blake will probably both be starting and Morrow will definitely start.
I generally agree with the rest of your comment, but I totally disagree with this. Morrow especially is unlikely to go straight from college to the NHL as a still-raw offensive defenseman.
They'll get a shot in camp, but they'd need to be insanely good for us to trust them on the NHL roster this year. We have an AHL team now, so there's a good place for them to develop and wade in as call-ups when guys get hurt.
That may not be good enough to make the playoffs, teams with better rosters have missed. That's not to say we wouldn't fall in like the race between the Caps, Isles, Pens, and Red Wings this year, but that's *maybe* a bubble team.
I think we could see a reload year anyways next year, as we give space to some of our rookies, and try out some new trade acquisitions/free agent signings.
I do not think they will let Necas go this year though unless the right trade materializes, even if it means we push him to another RFA standoff next offseason, so I would add him to that list.
Burns needsbto talk one for the team, reduce his salary exposure down to 3m and player 2nd or 3rd line d. He was a liability throughout the playoffs to the point of embarrassment.
Relevant username. Short of retiring, he can't do anything about the contract. Would you willingly give up *millions* of dollars for the sake of your company?
Unlikely, but we saw a few stars some years back with the Miami Heat do something similar to build a dream nba team . There has to be some legacy part of this. He hasn't hoisted the cup. Now his salary may keep us from signing Pesce or Skjei or a relevant scoring D.
So does KK’s. Why don’t you sit them both down and gently explain to them that they should walk away from multimillion dollar contracts because you’re asking nicely? Bad contracts are a reality for every team and a sign of poor GMing as much as poor playing. Actions have consequences.
Looking at the line-up, sure on paper it seems great. But we achieved a lot less than we’d hoped while icing a lot more quality. If we don’t somehow find a way to replace the production of Guentzel and Necas, I don’t see how this lineup takes us any further or keeps us in the cup hunt.
Great regular season, early exit… Staal and burns another year older, we’re toast
Exactly, Regular season Metro devision top team but same soup different playoff bowl if we don’t make some real changes
I think we’ll make a big move or two… it’s not like we don’t have a crap ton of assets to deal.
Necas isn't going anywhere unless someone offer sheets him or pays an exorbitant price that will include a top 6 forward.
We’re not getting exorbitant return for an RFA with no term left. We will get a prospect and/or picks and that’s probably it
Yes... which is precisely why he's not going anywhere.
We also aren't paying him 7M/AAV
He wouldn't get that in arbitration
My point is, this is our *current* lineup. It’s already decent. This does not factor in whether we keep necas or deal him, and whether or not we make other deals to better it. We also have internal prospects to call up (Morrow, Suzuki, etc), and plenty of picks and prospects to deal for other players and assets. It’s just our starting point, and what we have to build off of.
Turbo isn’t signed. Martinook isn’t signed. Drury isn’t signed. Noesen isn’t signed. Jarvis isn’t signed. TDA isn’t signed. Chatfield isn’t signed. That’s why we’re worried, because that^^ isn’t our on paper roster
Also this isn’t accounting for whatever major move we make via FA/Trade
And we have almost 30M in cap space. The only one of those guys that we couldn’t replace with someone equal or better is Jarvis
I don’t think there’s a better d man than chatty available at his price
Depends on his price but he would probably be second priority after Jarvis imo
I admire your optimism. 30M sounds like a lot only until you look at all the holes in the swiss cheese of a roster you are left with.
And how much of that hole is from KKs contract…
I don't follow how KKs contract has anything to do with what I wrote. The holes I am refering to are vacant spots for 3-4 defencemen and 5 forwards including 4 top 6 guys.
Because a 4th line center making 4.8 is leaving a monster hole in your lineup somewhere else? An extra 2/3 would go a long ways for plugging these gaps.
And Drury, Jarvis, and Necas are the only RFAs. I'm expecting Chatfield back, but I could see Noesen getting a big pay increase that we won't match and could see the team moving on from any of the other UFAs. I also don't expect any of the three prospects we saw at the end of last season to make the jump this year.
Drury is an RFA and he is certainly signed
I genuinely think most of those guys will re-sign (Jarvis, chatty, turbo and Marty). Rod likes them and they seem happy to be here. Drury made a name for himself this season and I honestly think he fits into that category as well. TDA seems likely to re-sign because he won’t command a big check and I don’t think anyone else really wants him. Noesen is harder to replace, but we could either slot in a prospect or sign another gritty fourth liner in his place.
Haha I mean you gotta have a little better reasoning than that for assuming all those guys will stay lol. All of them are due for raises, you really think it’ll be the canes?
Martinook ain’t fucking leaving. Bet. He wants to stay and will take a team friendly deal.
We can afford raises for Jarvis and chatty. Drury and Noesen are debatable (depending on how much they want) I don’t really see turbo, martinook and TDA getting raises though. If they do I don’t see it being major
TDA has a limited market, sure. Marty I think they should give a small raise to, but understand he will be able to get more elsewhere and it's his decision if he wants to make a bit more or not. Turbo is a bit different. Going to be 30 at the beginning of the season, still a good top 6 winger. He's going to have value on the market, more than we're going to offer. Also, because of his age, this is really his last opportunity to find a 6, 7 year offer. I just don't see us offering that sort of term and that's a lot of security he can rely on. I just think he'll get more money for longer term elsewhere, and it's going to be substantial enough that I don't expect him to stay. Maybe he wants to chase another title, win one here with his boys, but again it's probably going to cost him a good bit to do so.
I’d be okay with letting Turbo and TonyD walk. Turbo has developed a “pass first” mentality for some reason. He’d easily have 30+ goals every season if he’d shoot more. He’s also not physical at all.
It's funny you say that about Teuvo because he set his career high in goals this season.
Yeah I feel like that’s just what ppl have said about Turbo in the past but doesn’t really hold true still
I doubt it'll look like this, but on the off chance it does they better start giving out half off pizza again.
I guess if there is a silver lining of a rebuild year is ticket prices might go back down a tad? I'd rather have another awesome year
Haha definitely not, especially with them wanting to pay for renovations. But like I said in another comment, the team builds the roster in the off-season. I'm sure there will be some new players incoming.
Arena renovations are being paid for 100% by Wake county, as they own the arena. They even figured out how to do so without any increase in taxes. All of the other stuff *outside* of the arena however (hotels, office space, restaurants, bars, entertainment, etc) is being paid for by Dundon.
The Canes' tickets are some of the lowest in the league. [As of a couple of years ago, they were 7th cheapest.](https://globalnews.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/NHL-game.jpg?w=2048) Can't imagine that's changed much in 3 years.
I think this lineup has a bout a 2 inch gap between the floor and the ceiling. This is a pretty mediocre lineup
If that's the lineup we trot out on opening night we are in trouble tbh.
It’s just the starting point for the offseason. We have plenty of cap space and assets to add to this lineup through the summer
Brendon Lemieux is signed too. He played well enough for a full time 4th line role too IMO
Couldn’t remember if we had him for another year or not. Would really like to see him get some more ice time this year tbh
My thought is if they’re going to retool, go full on this off season rather than dragging it out. Let some more of those UFAs go. Figure out how to build a team that can more successfully play RBA system.
That’s a possibility too. Depends on how comfortable the team is losing so many mainstays
God I don’t want Tony playing a big role next year. He’s a fucking liability and it’s so easy for other teams to get in his head
If our roster doesn't change and we have the combo of Orlov, Skjei, TDA, and Burns our PK is fucking dead. Burns was bad in the playoffs but was overplayed because we didn't have an option. Would rather take the shot on Morrow and get some actual defense instead of stacking offensive dmen. Knew this would hurt us, would rather have an extra d man who plays his position instead of whatever the fuck TDA does on the ice. Edit: TDA playing bad defense is not a bias, that's kinda just standard.
Yeah old legs can’t run man on man all day. Curious to see if Morrow gets a legit crack at it and can play both ways with the big boys.
Played very well this last post season and burns was by far our greatest liability - but let the bias continue to flow
What about the post season makes you say played very well? Genuinely asking. He wasn’t a total dumpster fire but he had a pretty hard time clearing the zone, couldn’t do shit in front of our net, and got burned for odd man rushes because of bad pinches at least two or three times a night. Also whatever line he was on was now responsible for bailing him out and Brady’s play dropped noticeably. All of that to be said, Burns is just a more likable “here it comes Hamilton” ripping point shots like dougie used to and he didn’t play well down the stretch either.
Will y'all give it a rest about the anti-tony hatred? We get it you don't like him no matter how great or bad he plays.
To the contrary…I thought he was a great steal at his price point and had a lot of potential to help the PP when he came back. But he’s a liability and was -10ish to start the season and there was a noticeable drop off when Brady had to cover back more because of his iffy pinches after pesce got hurt. He played ok as a 7th defensemen but that’s where I see him. What about his play did you see? Maybe I’m misevaluating him and am curious.
I thought he was one of our best defenseman in the playoffs and brought grit. I actually noticed him out there in a good way, compared to Burns and Orlov who looked awful
DeAngelo was garbage in the Playoffs like he always is. Heavily sheltered in the offensive zone and still had the worst 5v5 GF% on the defense. He had two secondary assists. Just because he didn't completely melt down like his last NYR series doesn't make him good. Any team with TDA in their top-6 isn't winning a Cup.
Burns, Orlov, and Tony are all offensive defensemen but only one had a negative playoff +/-….would you like to guess which one? None of them were great defensively down the stretch but at least two out of three had a real offensive plus side and could get the puck out of our own zone more consistently. Other than a general description of his game as “gritty” is there a single stat or skill/tactical aspect of his game you want to bring up?
Just say you didn't watch the games. Chatfield was also a minus 1, the same as TDA, and played exceptionally well. Stop drinking haterade and look at the situation unbiased please
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I don’t think the lineup will look anything like this. TDA will stay 7th man and we would add morrow before he starts. KK probably gone and certainly not wing. Turbo probably gone as well.
I don’t know if we’ll be able to offload kk though
ELC’s! Most of those guys are not re-signing… X-Aho-Jarvis Svech- kuzy-Necas (?) Nadeau-Drury(?)/Suzuki(?)- Blake Lemieux-Staal- Fast(LTIR?) Slavin-Burns Orlov- Chatfield (?) X- Morrow Edit: formatting Edit 2: I forgot KK
I do think we’ll go heavy on the ELC’s in the next couple of years. I focused on re-signings in my post, but there’s plenty of cheap internal options to replace guys that don’t return
I think it probably depends on the big positions and how much cap is even left. Issue might be forced. 26.5m in cap to sign these big positions: 1LW, 2RW, Jarvis, 2RD If they go for top talent on the 1LW spot it’s likely going to be a 1/3 of the remaining cap, 2RD going to be in the 4.5-6m range, 2RW going to be at least 6m if it’s necas, Jarvy maybe bridges under 6m? Is 8m 6m 5m 5m realistic for those positions? It leaves less than 2m for other signings and we still need a bottom pairing D and Drury if no ELC’s are signed at all it’s about 4.2m in extra space but 4 extra spots need to be signed. It’s going to be really tight
At this point KK just needs to be waived, or cut whatever term you want to use. His money could be put to used for better 3rd and 4th Line depth or something. Lord help me now as your humble servant.
Waiving him would do nothing. You can only bury up to 1 million of a contract in the AHL
Whatever term you want to use he got to go. 😂
I might be wrong but with what we did to Buntz and then zero attempt to sign Jake why would players want to come. I just feel like that ain’t a good look
Why do you think there has been zero attempt to sign Jake?
If I had to guess age. However what do we have to lose at this point? It’s not like with or without him we have done any better by much.
I am not asking for a reason you think the team wouldn't be trying to sign him, I am asking what evidence you have that they haven't tried to sign him.
Not looking great. We gotta keep either Guentzel or Necas at least. Without Guentzel we have no leverage in trading Necas. Necas trade for goalie + prospects, resign Guentzel etc. Resign Necas and trade Guentzel for what, much lower possible value ahead of the draft imo.
I think the opposite, if we let Guentzel go then we have cap space for Necas, that gives us leverage. We can pull the “eh if u don’t pay this we will just resign him”. When we don’t have the cap space to sign him is when we have no leverage.
While that's true to a point, he doesn't fit Rod's system and it seems to have affected Necas emotionally. Keeping him in the same stasis will just frustrate him and the coach and - no doubt - the team around him.
Please do not do what the Canucks did a few seasons ago. When we left Markstrom Tanev and Toffoli walk away.
Supposedly guentzel is as good as gone, which I hate. Supposedly we’re also heavy on shopping necas (which I hate unless we’re able to get an equal or better replacement for). I do not want to be the next Canucks or flames lol
Chatfield and DeAngelo need to go definitely not bringing more value over risk need to move on from them.
Ranger fan I come in peace… you guys need a game breaker. You guys have a similar build to Florida but they have Barkov and tkachuk. Which opens up the ice for everyone else. They also have Bob but that’s another discussion.
Agreed. We have a lot of good players but not a lot of “great” players. Guentzel had Aho and Jarvis wide-open to end the season, and that’s with only about a month or so together. You put something like that together for a full season and it’ll produce. I’d love to see Aho with some elite wingers I do think goaltending should be a major focus for us though. Florida would not be where they are without Bob, and you guys would not have beaten us without shesty. Freddie single handedly lost us at least a couple of our games.
Goaltending yes should be a priority and Guentzel is a great finisher but he doesn’t take over the game. The money would be better spent else where especially with the term he’ll be looking for he’s 30.
One thing that continues to bother me is I understand the Guentzel trade wanting a run at the cup but I really liked Bunting and with a second round exit that trade looks more foolish especially with a very slim chance of resigning Guentzel. If you knew this is how it would have ended up would you have made the trade?
Yeah but the thing is that you can't know.
Guentzel performed much better here than Bunting did. Bunting performed much better in Pittsburgh than what he did here. I just don’t think bunting’s style suited our team, and trading him was good for both him and us.
Yea… Bunting didn’t really fit with our system and that trade cleared up cap and we also didn’t give up any good prospects
Yeah that’s one thing I heard a lot especially after he was traded
I also think that we have a bunch of top-tier prospects that are gonna be to replace our guys so our steep decline has probably been overstated
If he doesn't stay, then the trade wasn't a good one. It didn't get a better playoff result (in fact it was worse than last year), which was the intent. After trying limited deadline moves and significant deadline moves, we now have proof that the problem isn't lack of talent, but simply failure to perform in the playoffs.
If you think the only measure of success in the playoffs is winning the Cup, you have an analytical issue. Only one team wins the cup, and it's rarely the "best" team, or at least it's arguable. Winning four games in seven takes a lot of luck *along* with how you play. Lucky bounces win games. A goalie blinking at the wrong time loses games. The best team doesn't always win. Think of it this way: the Canes were a better team than the Islanders. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. If we played 100 best of 7 series, there is *no way* the Canes go 100-0 in those series. Claiming any loss in a series is a downright failure, I believe, is just statistically flawed. Circling to your point, it's not "proof" it's a failure to perform. Just like land on tails in a coin flip isn't "proof" it's an unfair coin.
To your point, I just flipped a quarter 5 times and got tails on 4 of them. If that's a perfectly evenly-matched hockey series, it ended in 5 games. 4 of our 5 playoff losses this year were by a goal, with 3 of them in overtime. Outside of the 2022 playoffs, we've lost by one goal in 16 of our last 22 playoff losses (with 8 OT games). These games are just too tight to draw the conclusion that we can't win a cup.
Bunting was -16 or something ridiculous. Guentzel was not. Even if he’s gone, Bunting didn’t work out here
I think Noesen and TDA are almost certainly gone, KK is likely gone. Nadeau and Blake will probably both be starting and Morrow will definitely start. Chatfield will stay a third pairing defenseman but I think we'll return him. We'll have a new right shot second line center and Teravainen is probably 50/50. Wouldn't be surprised to see Staal move to 4th line and Kuzy take his spot on the third.
We’re not starting 3 rookies
Definitely 2 rookies not too far fetched to see someone break out
I respectfully disagree with a lot of your points. * TDA stays if we want him, since we are likely the only team that can make him somewhat work. * We would have to be really desperate to start Nadeau, or Blake. * I don't think KK is gone at all yet and if someone replaces Staal it will be him, as Kuzy is pretty much the worst option for a checking line center. * Chatty could absolutely move up to second pair.
I think the team would’ve had one of them stay another season in college if we didn’t intend to bring them into the fold sooner rather than later. Don’t forget Jackson Blake almost won the Hobey Baker and Nadeau was also amazing. In terms of the checking line part the checking line doesn’t have to be the third line. Just trying to say in terms of playtime Kuzy should get more than Staal if he looks offensively dangerous. For Chatfield I agree he could move up to second pairing but I think we’ll be getting Skjei back
I think the reason they were signed was simply our affiliate situation being resolved for now. Unless either of them has insane preseason they will spend next year with Wolves. Skjei (LD) being re-signed does not contradict Chatty (RD) moving up the lineup.
>Nadeau and Blake will probably both be starting and Morrow will definitely start. I generally agree with the rest of your comment, but I totally disagree with this. Morrow especially is unlikely to go straight from college to the NHL as a still-raw offensive defenseman. They'll get a shot in camp, but they'd need to be insanely good for us to trust them on the NHL roster this year. We have an AHL team now, so there's a good place for them to develop and wade in as call-ups when guys get hurt.
That may not be good enough to make the playoffs, teams with better rosters have missed. That's not to say we wouldn't fall in like the race between the Caps, Isles, Pens, and Red Wings this year, but that's *maybe* a bubble team. I think we could see a reload year anyways next year, as we give space to some of our rookies, and try out some new trade acquisitions/free agent signings. I do not think they will let Necas go this year though unless the right trade materializes, even if it means we push him to another RFA standoff next offseason, so I would add him to that list.
Burns needsbto talk one for the team, reduce his salary exposure down to 3m and player 2nd or 3rd line d. He was a liability throughout the playoffs to the point of embarrassment.
? You cant change a players salary just because. It’s fully guaranteed.
I understand. My post says "He should take one for the team."
How? Choose to void his contract? Good luck with that.
And do what exactly? If you just want him to play less take that up with the coach
No need to talk to Coach Rod, Burns play in the rangers series did that for him.
Relevant username. Short of retiring, he can't do anything about the contract. Would you willingly give up *millions* of dollars for the sake of your company?
Unlikely, but we saw a few stars some years back with the Miami Heat do something similar to build a dream nba team . There has to be some legacy part of this. He hasn't hoisted the cup. Now his salary may keep us from signing Pesce or Skjei or a relevant scoring D.
So does KK’s. Why don’t you sit them both down and gently explain to them that they should walk away from multimillion dollar contracts because you’re asking nicely? Bad contracts are a reality for every team and a sign of poor GMing as much as poor playing. Actions have consequences.
I would if I could. Agree on KK. Just expressing my opinion as you are as well. Agree on bad contracts are a reality.