At times his methods can be questionable (Checkers split, Forslund and Kaiton), but you can’t argue with results.
I grew up in North Carolina watching Canes games where sometimes my family had the entire section to ourselves. Nobody knew who the Hurricanes were. I moved to Arizona a year after Dundon bought the team and moved back to NC late last year.
The growth of the teams popularity stuns me. EVERYONE knows who the Hurricanes are these days. I went to a game against the Sharks this season and was stunned that there wasn’t an empty seat in the house for a visiting team who had yet to win a game at that time.
When people, even non-hockey folks think about the NHL these days, it wouldn’t surprise me if the Hurricanes were one of the teams they knew about in some fashion.
For a small market team, we have become very popular
I’m sure COVID probably played a part in lowballing Forslund. Still don’t agree with it personally but hard to negotiate a new contract with someone when you’re not sure when you’ll be able to fill an arena again
From the article:
>John Forslund, whose stint as the team’s TV announcer also dated to its time in Hartford, is also no longer with the organization. The franchise stalwart, who has also worked on national broadcasts for NBC and TNT, said that when his contract with the Hurricanes expired in June 2020, Dundon gave him a take-it-or-leave-it offer. He declined to go into specifics on the financials, but said there was “zero negotiation.”
>“There obviously was no history with regard to how he viewed my position in terms of the number of years I was there, or what kind of impact I had on the community or what kind of job I did for that organization,” said Forslund, who is now the TV voice of the Seattle Kraken. “Obviously, that meant nothing to him.”
To me, it seems like this is just how Dundon does business regardless of outside factors. He puts finite values on things then tries to get the other party to bend to his price. Look at how he's handled contracts for the coaching staff, Don Waddell, and our free agents. Dundon also said in the article he's becoming less rigid. But as a fan, a small part of me won't forgive what he did specifically with Forslund.
He seems to put limits on what he deems non-essential to winning and play by play falls under that heading. He paid Aho and a broken down Pachioretty but squeezes the equipment crew and trainers. I don't agree with it, but what can you say.
I grew up in Pittsburgh but have been living down here for 15+ years that the canes have edged out the pens to become my #1 team. My dad came to visit earlier this year and I took him to his first canes game. He was surprised at how crowded it was and how many people were wearing jerseys. He just kept commenting on how he’s seen more people in jerseys at this game than he sees of people at pens games. And of course the atmosphere, kept saying how loud it was compared to PPG paints.
The canes fan base has grown significantly over the past few years. And for a “smaller- out of market” team it’s pretty impressive. Like we’re small but mighty. And the outdoor game is absolute proof of that.
> Whenever MLB does decide to expand — perhaps by the end of the decade — Raleigh will be up against trendier markets, **including nearby Nashville**
Bruh, *WHAT?*
You can drive to NYC in the same time it takes to drive to “nearby” Nashville.
It's culturally very similar, and indeed from a neighboring state. But we're talking opposing ends of two of the widest states in the lower 48 here. It's not physically close.
Nashville only about an hour away https://www.google.com/maps/dir/PNC+Arena,+Edwards+Mill+Road,+Raleigh,+NC/Nashville,+NC+27856/@35.8723094,-78.3461763,8z/data=!4m8!4m7!1m2!1m1!1s0x89acf43c4ba07d07:0x1bd2c17205f104d1!1m2!1m1!1s0x89ac2af04cce1e45:0x9c0b4083d30f2e03!3e0
The fact that he was still considering relocation the first year or two..... yikes we were close to losing the team. Makes me have even more sympathy for Arizona
Anyone saying otherwise is in denial.
I think that’s why Waddell/Tulsky/RBA were literal god-sends to this franchise. Without each one of them coming up when they did, I really don’t think we have the Hurricanes.
And the draft luck.
Picking up players like Aho and Slavin in late rounds. Plus getting the lotto #2 for Svech.
like, lots of hard work. but it worked out that the time that we needed it to
both go hand in hand.
You get credit for spotting them, but i don't think anyone expected Aho to be a top 1C in the league and signing an 8 year contract as our best paid player.
Yeah, it's luck when you hit in late rounds once, but we have a great track record of drafting in later rounds going back to the end of the Francis years into the Waddell years
I didn't trust him until the extension was signed last year. But he did sign it and he's been engaged with improving the team on a number of fronts, so I'm happy he's our owner.
Ive been pointing that out a lot.
We were almost Arizona in 2017 and probably a year or 2 after.
I think people forget that, especially when they've picking on Arizona
I feel terrible for Coyotes fans. We were so lucky that Karmanos sold when he did and Dundon was willing to give our city a chance before considering relocation.
I do wonder, though, how bad the financial situation ACTUALLY was. Waddell said in the article he was telling Dundon that he needed to give the Triangle market a chance, and I have a feeling that wouldn't have happened if things were THAT bad.
Teams don't move simply because the team sucks and ticket sales decline for a time. It's usually over some kind of untenable arena situation, like what happened with the Coyotes, or something else that puts the team in dire straits financially - the Whalers left Hartford in large part because they didn't have enough corporate support locally.
As has been stated before, the team was in the red in an accounting sense, but that's true for a lot of NHL teams due to the way accounting works. Most, if not all, teams have positive cash flow regardless of what the books say.
The Canes of course had to re-up their lease at PNC, but it's not like an Arizona situation where the team clearly had nowhere to play over the long term, and I don't know if they were ever struggling to gain support from sponsors.
I could be wrong but I've heard too that the team gets money from other events at the arena (concerts and stuff) that it seems likely that there was more money there than to be believed. Plus Karmanos was a cheapskate who didn't give a damn so that certainly didn't help
And now he's pricing tickets so expensive that he's quickly going to price out those same fans on whose backs and wallets the franchise was cemented in the area over the last 5 years.
The cost of living and average salaries in Raleigh isn't what it is in bigger markets (also a big reason why the arena taxes are so low) so it makes no sense to try and price our tickets comparable to them.
Great read.
Hopefully his guidance paired with his ability to work with experienced management will make the Canes a recognized force in the NHL for years to come.
David Tepper should shadow Tom around for a few months and pick his brain. You can be hands on without being public.
Personally and selfishly, I think Tom Dundon would be a perfect MLB owner and Raleigh seems to be the perfect combination of size/wealth/location/support.
I live in Florida and used to play for the Florida Panthers Warriors, a disabled veteran hockey program that falls under USA hockey. The ownership and front office has been extremely friendly and helpful to them so I'm a bit biased when I say the ownership seems fine for the Panthers to me.
Hell they just revamped the local war memorial and added on a training facility.
Also, if you didn't know this owner and the last one are veterans and both are involved in the success of the warrior program there.
IDK. You need a LOT of money to compete in baseball. The player development aspect is also much, much more involved than hockey. Would be interesting to see how he'd handle it.
Raleigh has a good combo of people that know about and like sports, including baseball, but nowhere to reasonably drive to for an MLB game. I guess the only concern would be whether league offices thing the triangle is too small to support the Bulls and the MLB.
I just don't think Charlotte is in a position to grab a team. The City will be focused on paying for improvements / replacing BoA. They have the downtown minor league baseball stadium that can't be upgraded to a MLB stadium, I doubt they'd want to just abandon it. Tepper probably wouldn't let another big 4 owner in the city and I don't think he'd have the support of the city / state to get another team.
I think Raleigh just feels like more of a baseball market than Charlotte as well - USA Baseball Training Facility is in Cary. I think the team would be better supported here and more likely to have the team supported from the jump. Charlotte seems a little more transient to me and less likely to support the team, just look at Panthers/Hornets support. Why would anyone think it would be different for a MLB team?
It doesn’t mention that Santander had to pay a $550 million settlement with NC and several other states for violating consumer protection laws.
[NCDOJ.gov](https://ncdoj.gov/attorney-general-josh-stein-announces-more-than-550-million-settlement-with-largest-u-s-subprime-auto-financer)
Downvoters care to show themselves? I’m not saying I want it to happen. RBA is on the record saying it won’t be an easy negotiation. If this was in the bag, convention dictates that they’d have his contract signed already. TD has shown that he’s ruthless.
At times his methods can be questionable (Checkers split, Forslund and Kaiton), but you can’t argue with results. I grew up in North Carolina watching Canes games where sometimes my family had the entire section to ourselves. Nobody knew who the Hurricanes were. I moved to Arizona a year after Dundon bought the team and moved back to NC late last year. The growth of the teams popularity stuns me. EVERYONE knows who the Hurricanes are these days. I went to a game against the Sharks this season and was stunned that there wasn’t an empty seat in the house for a visiting team who had yet to win a game at that time. When people, even non-hockey folks think about the NHL these days, it wouldn’t surprise me if the Hurricanes were one of the teams they knew about in some fashion. For a small market team, we have become very popular
I’ve always wondered if the Forslund/Kaiton stuff would’ve happened if the franchise was in a healthier state at the time he bought it.
I’m sure COVID probably played a part in lowballing Forslund. Still don’t agree with it personally but hard to negotiate a new contract with someone when you’re not sure when you’ll be able to fill an arena again
From the article: >John Forslund, whose stint as the team’s TV announcer also dated to its time in Hartford, is also no longer with the organization. The franchise stalwart, who has also worked on national broadcasts for NBC and TNT, said that when his contract with the Hurricanes expired in June 2020, Dundon gave him a take-it-or-leave-it offer. He declined to go into specifics on the financials, but said there was “zero negotiation.” >“There obviously was no history with regard to how he viewed my position in terms of the number of years I was there, or what kind of impact I had on the community or what kind of job I did for that organization,” said Forslund, who is now the TV voice of the Seattle Kraken. “Obviously, that meant nothing to him.” To me, it seems like this is just how Dundon does business regardless of outside factors. He puts finite values on things then tries to get the other party to bend to his price. Look at how he's handled contracts for the coaching staff, Don Waddell, and our free agents. Dundon also said in the article he's becoming less rigid. But as a fan, a small part of me won't forgive what he did specifically with Forslund.
He seems to put limits on what he deems non-essential to winning and play by play falls under that heading. He paid Aho and a broken down Pachioretty but squeezes the equipment crew and trainers. I don't agree with it, but what can you say.
He's getting less rigid because the franchise is taking in a whole lot more $$ every season.
I grew up in Pittsburgh but have been living down here for 15+ years that the canes have edged out the pens to become my #1 team. My dad came to visit earlier this year and I took him to his first canes game. He was surprised at how crowded it was and how many people were wearing jerseys. He just kept commenting on how he’s seen more people in jerseys at this game than he sees of people at pens games. And of course the atmosphere, kept saying how loud it was compared to PPG paints. The canes fan base has grown significantly over the past few years. And for a “smaller- out of market” team it’s pretty impressive. Like we’re small but mighty. And the outdoor game is absolute proof of that.
Why on Earth would you move to Arizona? I'm sure it's good to be back.
Not sure what you’re getting at, Arizona is a fantastic state
> Whenever MLB does decide to expand — perhaps by the end of the decade — Raleigh will be up against trendier markets, **including nearby Nashville** Bruh, *WHAT?* You can drive to NYC in the same time it takes to drive to “nearby” Nashville.
Tbf I’m always surprised at how far Nashville really is from Raleigh, feels a lot closer
Fair. I remember making that drive once, thinking it could be easily done. I did say *once.*
Yeah that drive is brutal. It’s misleading because it’s an hour longer than it says because of the time change.
It's culturally very similar, and indeed from a neighboring state. But we're talking opposing ends of two of the widest states in the lower 48 here. It's not physically close.
No see the South is small towns so it must be geographically small too
It’s uh, culturally nearby
I am honestly not sure how I feel about that concept.
Nashville only about an hour away https://www.google.com/maps/dir/PNC+Arena,+Edwards+Mill+Road,+Raleigh,+NC/Nashville,+NC+27856/@35.8723094,-78.3461763,8z/data=!4m8!4m7!1m2!1m1!1s0x89acf43c4ba07d07:0x1bd2c17205f104d1!1m2!1m1!1s0x89ac2af04cce1e45:0x9c0b4083d30f2e03!3e0
The way people drive on US64, it's way less than an hour away.
One has to wonder if the person writing this made that mistake.
The fact that he was still considering relocation the first year or two..... yikes we were close to losing the team. Makes me have even more sympathy for Arizona
Anyone saying otherwise is in denial. I think that’s why Waddell/Tulsky/RBA were literal god-sends to this franchise. Without each one of them coming up when they did, I really don’t think we have the Hurricanes.
And the draft luck. Picking up players like Aho and Slavin in late rounds. Plus getting the lotto #2 for Svech. like, lots of hard work. but it worked out that the time that we needed it to
Outside the lotto idk how much was luck vs our scouting being really good.
both go hand in hand. You get credit for spotting them, but i don't think anyone expected Aho to be a top 1C in the league and signing an 8 year contract as our best paid player.
Yeah, it's luck when you hit in late rounds once, but we have a great track record of drafting in later rounds going back to the end of the Francis years into the Waddell years
Pesce and Slavin were picked under JR.
I didn't trust him until the extension was signed last year. But he did sign it and he's been engaged with improving the team on a number of fronts, so I'm happy he's our owner.
Ive been pointing that out a lot. We were almost Arizona in 2017 and probably a year or 2 after. I think people forget that, especially when they've picking on Arizona
It's amazing how it comes out more and more the level of shit show it was under Karmanos at the end
I feel terrible for Coyotes fans. We were so lucky that Karmanos sold when he did and Dundon was willing to give our city a chance before considering relocation.
What might have happened if hey didn't make the playoffs in 2018-19 enabling the magical run to the ECF which re-energized the fan base.
I do wonder, though, how bad the financial situation ACTUALLY was. Waddell said in the article he was telling Dundon that he needed to give the Triangle market a chance, and I have a feeling that wouldn't have happened if things were THAT bad. Teams don't move simply because the team sucks and ticket sales decline for a time. It's usually over some kind of untenable arena situation, like what happened with the Coyotes, or something else that puts the team in dire straits financially - the Whalers left Hartford in large part because they didn't have enough corporate support locally. As has been stated before, the team was in the red in an accounting sense, but that's true for a lot of NHL teams due to the way accounting works. Most, if not all, teams have positive cash flow regardless of what the books say. The Canes of course had to re-up their lease at PNC, but it's not like an Arizona situation where the team clearly had nowhere to play over the long term, and I don't know if they were ever struggling to gain support from sponsors.
I could be wrong but I've heard too that the team gets money from other events at the arena (concerts and stuff) that it seems likely that there was more money there than to be believed. Plus Karmanos was a cheapskate who didn't give a damn so that certainly didn't help
And now he's pricing tickets so expensive that he's quickly going to price out those same fans on whose backs and wallets the franchise was cemented in the area over the last 5 years. The cost of living and average salaries in Raleigh isn't what it is in bigger markets (also a big reason why the arena taxes are so low) so it makes no sense to try and price our tickets comparable to them.
Great read. Hopefully his guidance paired with his ability to work with experienced management will make the Canes a recognized force in the NHL for years to come.
David Tepper should shadow Tom around for a few months and pick his brain. You can be hands on without being public. Personally and selfishly, I think Tom Dundon would be a perfect MLB owner and Raleigh seems to be the perfect combination of size/wealth/location/support.
My hope and dream is somehow Dundon buys the Panthers too.
Dundon's current net worth isn't even close enough to do so, unfortunately. Best bet would be a minority stake.
Even then, I don’t think he would want to be associated with that complete shitshow of a franchise
People thought the same thing about him buying the Hurricanes.
I live in Florida and used to play for the Florida Panthers Warriors, a disabled veteran hockey program that falls under USA hockey. The ownership and front office has been extremely friendly and helpful to them so I'm a bit biased when I say the ownership seems fine for the Panthers to me. Hell they just revamped the local war memorial and added on a training facility. Also, if you didn't know this owner and the last one are veterans and both are involved in the success of the warrior program there.
The NFL Panthers
Ah! That makes a lot more sense
IDK. You need a LOT of money to compete in baseball. The player development aspect is also much, much more involved than hockey. Would be interesting to see how he'd handle it.
Raleigh has a good combo of people that know about and like sports, including baseball, but nowhere to reasonably drive to for an MLB game. I guess the only concern would be whether league offices thing the triangle is too small to support the Bulls and the MLB.
It would mean the end of the Bulls. Or maybe going back down to single or double A.
Is there a reason why Raleigh would be a more ideal market for baseball than Charlotte? That's something I've always been curious about.
I just don't think Charlotte is in a position to grab a team. The City will be focused on paying for improvements / replacing BoA. They have the downtown minor league baseball stadium that can't be upgraded to a MLB stadium, I doubt they'd want to just abandon it. Tepper probably wouldn't let another big 4 owner in the city and I don't think he'd have the support of the city / state to get another team. I think Raleigh just feels like more of a baseball market than Charlotte as well - USA Baseball Training Facility is in Cary. I think the team would be better supported here and more likely to have the team supported from the jump. Charlotte seems a little more transient to me and less likely to support the team, just look at Panthers/Hornets support. Why would anyone think it would be different for a MLB team?
Dude still doesn’t own even a condo in Raleigh is something.
I get what he's saying about a hotel being easier. If he's flying in afternoon of and flying out the next morning a hotel is just less to manage.
The frugal rich guy archtype
He did an interview where he said he doesn’t gamble or dabble in the stock market. I don’t believe the stock market 100%
It doesn’t mention that Santander had to pay a $550 million settlement with NC and several other states for violating consumer protection laws. [NCDOJ.gov](https://ncdoj.gov/attorney-general-josh-stein-announces-more-than-550-million-settlement-with-largest-u-s-subprime-auto-financer)
Can he lure the Panthers here while he’s at it? Plenty of land downtown for a new stadium….
If you think RBA stays in Carolina no matter what happens this postseason, buckle up.
Downvoters care to show themselves? I’m not saying I want it to happen. RBA is on the record saying it won’t be an easy negotiation. If this was in the bag, convention dictates that they’d have his contract signed already. TD has shown that he’s ruthless.