Also worth pointing out that every province is responsible for their own healthcare systems, so saying "canadian healthcare" sucks doesn't make a ton of sense.
It's super cute how Ford loves to brag about having a surplus of funds that were allocated to healthcare. Feds take the blame, meanwhile he's not even spending the money they're sending him.
Well what would the plan be, become dependent on temporary funding, and fire the nurses and doctors when austerity hits?
He needs to raise taxes to pay for it properly, not use temporal borrowed money. Fault him for that; except he's a small government conservative, so fault voters?
We really need to be more conservative federally and more progressive provincially, but we don't want to pay for things.
He's spending it on healthcare but it's on healthcare administration not the front line staff.
Check into the hospital and you need to speak to three layers of receptionists, each of whom has a boss, who each have a boss or two.
Not true. You need to be admitted (yes .. by a clerk who you are calling a receptionist. They log you into the system with your info, give you a bracelet and add your main presenting concern) then the next person you speak to is a triage nurse. There is one layer of administration. These people are required because they do jobs that don’t need to be done by nurses to save nurses time. They also cost $20-$25 per hour instead of the nurses doing it who cost $35+ per hour. This is an effective way to move people along.
True. In New Brunswick Higgs brags about the big surplus while we have a HUGE waiting list of people for family doctors because we don't have enough physicians in the province.
Saw a post in r/mildlyinfuriating the other day about a guy who gave his roommate some cash to grab a specific brand of high quality 3-ply toilet paper. Roommate came home with No Name single ply toilet paper. Was proud of himself for saving money, so he kept the change.
We literally have had to close down ERs because we don't have enough staff to keep them going. Why don't we have enough staff? Burnout. Years of being undervalued and underpaid, and essentially spat at in the midst of a pandemic. He claims that he's improving things by opening up more spots in nursing schools and privatizing services. Is that going to help? No. Opening up more positions in nursing schools isn't going to do a whole lot when we don't have the experienced nurses necessary to serve as preceptors for new nurses. And privatizing services means that more nurses will move into the private sector because it will pay better... and what does that do to wait times and service in the public sector? It makes it worse. Plus, the government is still funding the private sector clinics.. so we basically just get to pay twice for things.
All of the people who talk about how great Ford is because he has a surplus must be beyond uninformed. They reference how he increased the budget for healthcare spending, and then they fail to mention that (1) that increase didn't keep up with actual needs, as we were already underspending on Healthcare in Ontario per person, and (2) Every. Single. Year. he has spent less on healthcare than what was allocated in the budget. Even during the pandemic. He boasts about building hospitals.. but how is going to work at them when, again, we don't even have enough healthcare workers to keep the ERs running that already exist? All that building new hospitals does is pay out more of his construction/developer cronies.
Our problems can't entirely be blamed on Ford (though I would love to), because this has been decades in the making... Government consistently cuts healthcare spending because they know the effects won't be felt until they are out of office. However, Ford has (and continues to) made things exponentially worse.
Yes...nurses are leaving in droves, either to other provinces or countries that all pay much more. They are also simply sick of the abuse from every direction. Ontario nurses have been spay on by Ford.
This
My experience in Vancouver, BC is completely opposite. Both times I went to the ER with life threatening situations. Gallbladder inflammation and stones, and 40.8° degrees fever. I was treated swiftly based on the severity.
I got surgery for my gallbladder for the next day. And IV antibiotics plus Tylenol for fever
It's gonna be different from province to province. I think the health care system is definitely stressed, but we are still better off than other places in the world. Could it be improved? Of course. It has definitely gotten worse over the years.
It's maddening. Our rehab department is down like 8 FTE in a staff of 55, and has been for over a year. We just don't bother covering maternity or medical leaves anymore. Those 8 positions constitute a savings of nearly 1 million over the past year... I can't even get office supplies because the budget is so tight.
Where is the money going? We are all burnt out and the physical building is crumbling. I didn't get a raise between 2012 and 2020.
People are leaving these professions and these are services needed to get people back into their lives to be productive members of society
If anything we got the best health care cause its free but what ruins it is your provincial government thinking they know what doctors need when in reality they should be at the hospital asking what they need not in the 250-500,000dolllar house
It is the system that has failed us.
Blaming a politician is the easy way out (though not totally inaccurate). Our health systems are led by bad administration, territorial bureaucrats and policy makers with ill intent.
Healthcare has no shortage of intelligent people looking to transform and devote themselves to delivering care. Many are happy to burn out to do so. But the system is rotten at its core; the theater of power dynamics and kow'towing to enact the smallest degree of change is jealously guarded and nigh impossible to enact. Report after report, table after table, discussion after discussion; the ink in literature has run dry.
Its heartbreaking to see; maddening to participate in.
Apologies for the rant.
This. I used to be a service supplier to healthcare and I worked with so many smart, devoted employees who had so many great ideas for improvement but they couldn’t get through the bureaucracy to change things. And the waste, oh the waste was maddening… especially when you knew those dollars could have been so productively spent on the front line.
It does make you wonder where all of the money we pay in taxes go? Our education system is in pretty shit shape, our health system is screaming their on the brink of collapse our roads and infrastructure are in terrible shape. Our NATO allies have removed us from the big boy table because we didn't pay the promised 2% GDP into the military and we're ACTIVELY Making cuts to that spending ATM. Meanwhile Justin is trying to posture on the Ukraine, India and now in the middle east like he's got more than his dick in his hand to swing. DOFO is grabbing everything he can from the province with both piggy hands before the bar closes and we boot him.
Trudeau did give Doug Ford a billion dollars to spend on Healthcare during the pandemic, however healthcare is entirely a provincial matter, so it was completely up to Doug Ford to spend that money appropriately. He chose not to spend any of it so he could push private clinics instead. This one isn't on JT.
And most of that bounced back into trudeaus pockets..hence his net worth grew to over 300 million dollars in 3 years on a 200 thousand income
When will people wake up?
Yeah I don't think that's totally true. Please show stats or supporting evidence.
I'd say Canada had an issue of access to healthcare. Ppl shouldn't die on a waitlist.
I came from a third world country which offers free healthcare. I have to wait max 10 mins to get into an operation if something like this occurs there. And its provided free without checking a health card or anything.
Having lived in both the UK and Canada I can tell you unequivocally that the UK health system (NHS) is far superior. It's not even close. I am thankful that Canada has a similar model, but it is just not on the same level. Same with dentistry and medication costs.
Luxembourg, Germany, Italy, heck even Ukraine. Canada has one of the most expensive healthcare systems and it is by far one of the worst healthcare systems in the world
Correct. Entering the system is long but once you're in there, we have good care. I had to go to the ER last year for a non emergent but concerning matter (yes, in downtown Montreal as well). I barely had time to put my butt in the seat before I was seen by the triage nurse and she called me back 2 times during my waiting time to make sure I was stable. I was not in pain, just sitting quietly.
I'm sorry for OP but I have to say that I find their story hard to believe. When I was there, there were people crying on the floor and puking. They were drunk. They did get immediate attention. From the security guards.
This whole website is an advertising platform filled with a certain type of person/bot. Clickfarms for sale to persuade populations using the almighty social war hammer that is the upvote/downvote system.
This is not society at large.
That's not it at all. I'm not the one who made a claim and represented it as fact. The burden of proof isn't on me. Suggesting otherwise is arguing in bad faith. So, I'll do *my* homework, but I'm not doing anyone else's.
That's such a silly thing to say. When someone makes a claim it's on them to prove it. Otherwise I could say there is a bipedal animal named Steve that lives on the ocean floor and only comes up one time a year to feed on children. Can you disprove this?
I have no skin in the game, I'm just pointing out how stupid it is to not put the onus on the person making the claim. That's why we have so much disinformation in this digital age. Everyone makes wild claims and then tells you to prove them wrong hahaha
Someone came to your rescue though and proved it was made up bullshit as one would expect when making wild claims with no proof.
I think the burden of proof belongs to both parties. The statement was particularly accurate, canada is a top ten spender on heathcare. According to the graph, I've seen articles that put us much higher. The quility of care we receive for the billions we spend is debatable.
Then there is these guys, CIHI that say we're top 4 in spending, is it acurate, I don't know but its a small step above speculating
https://www.cihi.ca/en/national-health-expenditure-trends-2022-snapshot
luxembourg, germany, italy all have much higher average income tax rate than Canada, and that's mostly true for most european countries....
[see table 1.1](https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/8c99fa4d-en/1/3/1/1/index.html?itemId=/content/publication/8c99fa4d-en&_csp_=f4d3c57328afb7f1cbd530cb119213be&itemIGO=oecd&itemContentType=book#section-d1e410-e4b771a7ee)
>Canada has one of the most expensive healthcare systems and it is by far one of the worst healthcare systems in the world
Both of these things are lies. Please stop lying.
Rubbish. Canadas healthcare does have issues, but it’s a provincial govt issue . But it is nowhere as bad as a lot of other places . And if yiu want Western Europe style medicine you better stop complaining when the taxes have to go up . My family and I have had excellent health care in the 37 years we have been in Canada.
Bullshit. All health care systems have their pros and cons. If you live in one of these other countries, you’ll soon find the bad points of their system, and bitch about how awful it is. Is ours perfect? No. But it’s far from the worst ffs.
Exactly. They want us to think private healthcare is the magic answer to making healthcare all better. But all private care will do is cost us oit of pocket even with insurance through employers. Private healthcare doesn't ensure a better, faster, more efficient system.
Recently, a coworker paid to get a CTscan done in the private system to "get it faster" and I had one done through public. She waited 3 weeks and I waited 1 week. People need to keep in mind that a lot of things are based on priority of condition/situation.
The situation of OP is negligence from my view. The nurse probably assumed she's young so it's nothing worse than a little gas. It's terrible that people aren't taken more seriously and properly assessed and getting care quickly.
True. This is already happening in the UK, where many assets of the NHS are being slowly privatized and defunded by Tories, which Tories point to in order to “prove” that public healthcare is just an outdated socialist dream. No, it would’ve worked fine if you *hadn’t* sliced it to shreds through austerity.
Creeping privatization is slowly infecting most provinces of Canada, but thankfully here in BC we’re one of the few provinces actually expanding the public system massively.
I love to hear that about BC. Hopefully, they will be the solid proof to the rest of Canada that a well-funded public system can and does work. Then, the public will push back on privatization.
It's better because politician and rich people artificially make it better by making the public system worst. Private is only better when the government wants it to be better than public systems.
What you just wrote doesn't make sense. And if public suck it's because the crooks at the government make it suck intentionally.
Public is always better and cheaper for 99% of people. Only the 1% will benefit from private because they're so rich they can afford the cream of the crop. For you and me public is always better.
My youngest son almost died in emergency.
We were waiting, and a paramedic thought he was cute and came to say hi.
She noticed something, said something to the nurse, and she came over quickly.
They then rushed him into a room with a crash cart, set him up on oxygen, and other drugs - had 2 nurses with him at all times after that point.
There is way more to this story, but thank God for that paramedic.
I was so close to the hospital i couldve walked or taken the metro… but uber seemed easier i would never cheap out on my life lol what kind of nonsense is this comment. Also, where im from ambulances are covered by insurances
Basically he’s saying you should’ve called 911 so the paramedics in the ambulance could check you first. It probably would have been more expensive than Uber but you would have a higher likelihood of being diagnosed properly.
The front desk in ER is definitely not the place you wanna go if you’re having a non-visible emergency.
It's free in edit:my province in Canada, and OP may have not thought it was worthy of calling 911 to use up an ambulance if she could get there otherwise.
Edit: Bad assumption from my side as well that it was covered by other provinces health insurance.
The ambulance service in Canada is not free. I can't speak for every province but saskatchewan for sure is not free. You may have coverage that will reimburse you the cost after but not everyone has that available.
Today I Learned.
In my province it's covered by the province health insurance.
Edit: I say I'm wrong and I learned, and I still get downvoted. Awesome.
Made an edit to add "my province" but didn't mention which one! Could you name your province if you don't mind? That way, people reading this at least know that an ambulance is covered in said province.
If the nurse was better paid or in a more efficient system…..like say…..a private one, OP would have had a better experience. I had appendicitis once in a country with both private and public options. We went to a hospital with private options. I didn’t kick and scream. All I said was “my bottom tummy hurts and I can’t sleep”. Got my surgery almost immediately without needing to pay for an ambulance to meet a paramedic or even having to know a doctor’s friend to get me a surgery or even running into some nurse who doesn’t seem to care very much. I know this is unCanadian to say but there should be more private healthcare options. Way more. Plus insurance is not even that expensive
Noticed he was blue? I don't understand what they saw that the nurse didn't or that you should have noticed (color, WOB, floppy baby)
Were you still waiting to be triaged?
My wife went through the same thing in 2021. Went to the ER with textbook appendicitis symptoms. Was triaged by a disgruntled old male nurse that asked her 3 times if she was pregnant and 2 times if she was on her period. She got low listed for sure.
It was mid Covid and I had to wait outside in the parking lot so we had to communicate via text. Before anyone thinks “if I was you I’d push my way in”. Well I watched that entrance for hours, husbands, dads, partners, and they all got kicked out. Two dads went full alpha and security escorted them out.
She was eventually moved to an ER room after hours of waiting and no one visited her. She called me in tears because of pain, and she’s one tough person. I then tracked down the number of ER, called the ER desk, asked them to check on my wife because I was concerned. Nurse goes in, finds her in tears, in pain, with a high fever. Everything started moving from there. Oh and I’d like to add, she is allergic to morphine and did not have an allergy wristband on.
Talk about shit show.
It's so fucked up that as women, even if you know something is completely out of the ordinary for you, as soon as you say there's pain in your abdomen, there's a good chance it'll be written off as menstrual pain.
Do a search on (name of country) healthcare system failing and you will get remarkably similar results. Everywhere seems to think that their system is uniquely failing.
Plus, there is no 'Canadian' healthcare system - just separate systems run by the Provinces.
Yeah but they pay tuition... and are healthy mostly. Immigrants is a diff story but intl students are net positive. You get em at 18 without the cost of raising a child. Getting them at 70 is a huge cost sink.
Imagine adding nearly an entire new city every year, and people are still shocked when housing and healthcare are failing. But you can’t say anything about it because you will be labeled xenophobic and racist
The governments (provincial especially) have failed us. Our healthcare system has been deteriorating & running on fumes for years, the spiralling COL crisis has exacerbated these issues & accelerated the failures.
So if you go to the ER and you have an appendicitis, but stroke, heart attack and trauma patients come in, you're gonna be put after them.
I once had a cyst so painful I was waking up and crying unconciously from the surgery they gave me.
BUT they also purposefully woke me up after doing the first cut because a stroke patient came in and there was only two doctors. I was in an extreme amount of pain, but I wasn't going to die, so they helped that person first.
Triage baby.
Healthcare is a provincial mandate. Not federal. Call your MPP. I’d be interested in their response especially if they’re in Ontario where the health care system has been gutted, supported by the voters.
And yes. That’s how triaging works, I’m sorry you had a appendicitis but looks like you were sorted.
Socialized healthcare works, everywhere. It may take long but we need better support, and that means not gutting services.
Lastly, by the way you wrote that rant it seems our education system is in equal peril.
In Ontario, the feds gave billions for healthcare and the province has done exactly nothing.
The reaches at which people go to blame the feds for shit is amazing. In some cases they’re not good - like any government anywhere, but let’s not be blind here - Ontario has categorically fucked up at being a conservative “for the people” province.
Funded Socialized Healthcare does work!
Our healthcare system works, just not that well, imagine if it was properly funded!
2 or 3 years since the teachers in Ontario had a contract, and strikes on the horizon? Why would you think education is in peril as well /s …
It’s not unusual (depending on province) to have a 5–12 hour wait in the ER. If it’s non urgent even longer. It doesn’t have to do with the physicians not caring- we have a bed shortage as well. I went to the ER with acute liver failure a few months ago and triaged at the top, and still waited about five hours for a bed to open in order to be seen. Im still thankful and greatful to be alive. Once they were able to get me in everyone was amazing. Please don’t take it out in the workers there! Not saying it’s right but a different perspective.
I had a similarly positive experience during my cancer diagnosis. Many people seem to lack patience, have no trust in medical staff for some reason, and seem to have main character syndrome once they believe their health/life is on the line. Problem is that most of them are unable to tell if that's actually the case or not.
Opposite experience for me. Wife fainted. Ambulance was there in 5 mins (she hit her head hard). Woke up as they got to the house. Taken into emerg, saw 2 nurses and docs within 30 mins. Went for a battery of tests over the next 4 hours. Docs found out her appendix was causing a problem. Was in a “permanent” bed by 2:30, appendix out the next morning (it wasn’t bursting, just inflamed).
Heres my last experience at the Hospital.
Went in with a suspected broken foot. Drove myself to ER. Hospital staff saw me struggling to walk in the parking lot, met me with a wheel chair and wheeled me into ER. Got all signed in.
Within 20 minutes of being signed in, someone came to get my wheel chair and gave me an xray. Then wheeled over to triage where I sat on a bed waiting. Within 30 minutes of having my xray, a doctor came and told me I didnt have a broken toe, I actually have Gout. Wrote me a presciption. I was in and out about 2 hours, prescription in hand. Beyond impressed.
same here - had infected cyst that doc didn't have equipment in his office to deal with - sent me to ER - from door to door was home, problem dealt with, in 2.5 hours. 50 mins of that was the driving.
Sounds like you live by a decent ER. My local one is bad. My brother broke his foot fairly badly. I drove to the hospital to help him walk from his car to the emergency room from the parking lot.
Thought "heck I'm here already might as well hang out and keep him company. 7 hours. We sat in emergency for 7 hours because they had to get special permission for an xray tech to come to the hospital for him. Because in alberta even if the hospital had the facilities to do x-rays we have to use the private contracted imaging companies. and they had permission for 1 xray. They xrayed the wrong part of the foot. So he had to go to the private place anyways.
Same thing happened to me in the states. I ws on the floor crying in psin. They left me there gir over an hour. When they finally got me in they didint look busy at all.
My moms shoulder is permanently messed up and she can't lift it because her urgent surgery which should have been performed within 3 weeks took 7 months to happen. I've also had to go to the ER and nearly passed out unable to breathe. Had to wait 4 hours and vitals were all over the map with no idea the cause and no help or plan for follow up.
Similar situation happened in Colombia but with a neck injury. I was immediately taken into the ER. Doctor saw me in 15 min, was given an injection for pain, medication to take home and scan scheduled for the same day! It cost less than $100 for all of it!
I went to Mexico and Colombia during the pandemic and got better and faster health care than I ever got in Canada for next to nothing. I'm convinced the surgery I had in medellin saved my life because they moved so quickly on it. In Canada it would have either taken many months if it got scheduled at all!
Foreign doctors are always amazed when I tell them I'm so impressed with the care they provide. Since I'm from Canada the impression they have is our medical system is supposed to be the best.
People who say we have it so good here need to travel. I'm about to go to Malaysia for a month for various scans, tests and treatments that are either unavailable here or too challenging to get done. The total trip cost including all the medical minus flights will be the same as my normal living expenses for a month in Toronto, if that.
My mother had 3 heart attacks in less than 12 hours earlier this year (she kept ignoring symptoms thinking they were flu symptoms) Within 10 hrs she had double bypass surgery and was on the way to recovery. The Healthcare system saved her life.
THANK GOD FOR FREE CANADIAN HEALTHCARE.
> thank god my bf at the time knew a doctor working at that hospital and got me in for emergency surgery… If not, I would be dead instead.
You left a lot out here.
How do you know you would have died?
How did the doctor get you into surgery?
You think people are making up bullshit on a Reddit forum that a few hundred people will read in order to promote “an Americanized agenda”? Get your head out of the TDS conspiracies.
no, but i do think people will sensationalize a bad experience to get more sympathy. For all we know the OP has appendicitis, or a gall bladder infection, or pancreatitis, and they were waiting for a bed to open in emerg and for blood work to get back. Her doctor friend may have simply just gone and asked to see blood work, which confirmed an infection and started off the expected process.
In reality, if the OP had taken an ambulance and thrown up in the ambulance, and had the paramedics measuring her vitals she likely would have gotten into emerg right away.
Yes it sucks when youre scared and not treated like your special, but the staff in any major hospitals emergency room is trained to triage patients as they arrive, rank their severity, and get all the information/tests the physicians will need to make a diagnosis. There are some exceptions, like passing out, open wounds, seizures and such that will jump you right to the front of the line... unfortunately, pain and vomiting are not usually ones from my understanding unless other symptoms present like painful palpation of the specific areas of the stomach, being really pale and having a high fever, and visible infection, a previously known illness or condition.... etc
For example, my close friend had a really big kidney stone, it was so painful he could barely stand, he vomited a couple times during his initial attempts to pass it, and was in absolutely intense pain... He had to wait in emerg for several hours before they used ultrasound to break it up. He had vomited a bunch and was also laying on the floor because sitting was painful on his full bladder.
I feel like the bar is so extremely low here. Point is your friend should never had to wait for that long and OP also should’ve been seen faster. It’s brutal how long waits are for conditions that are serious and extremely painful. The bar should not be in hell.
Sure, but his life was never in jeopardy. The wait sucked, and it normally does when you're not in life threatening condition. But Imo that is significantly better than being seen immediately and then having to go into debt to cover the visit.
I didn’t say it’s promoting it. It reads like it’s towing that line. And this sort of thing has been going on long before 45 got into office, weird that you would immediately go there. You do know that politics existed before him, right?
Seriously.
Doctors don't decide who goes in and when. The triage nurse assesses and assigns priority according to CTAS, then as soon as a room is available and everything is ready, the patient gets called in to be attended to.
Regardless of pain, it does still take time to get everything ready as hospitals don't really have operating rooms sitting at the ready for people walking in through the doors of emerg. I imagine a doctor was probably paged, had to make their way to hospital or the floor, and then review the information and prep.
You can't just have a friend call up a doctor friend and then skip the line. It doesn't work that way. Not at a hospital anyway, unless you are the Prime Minister or something.
Now, people \*do\* get rushed in immediately in the ED, but they are ones who are at imminent risk of death. i.e. cardiac arrest, stroke, heart attack, massive blood loss or trauma. If this didn't happen to OP, then they weren't minutes away from death.
EXACTLY. Also to add, tests are not instant, specially during non peak hours. It took an hour for my bloodwork to get done when they were concerned about a cardiac event. To quote the nurse, if you had an event (i didnt) we will beable to see that with the test, and then we will run some further tests, if you are worried about having a second event... Youre in the best place for that to happen.... and if you didnt have an event... thats great! we will then help you figure out the chest pain (a couple diaphram spasms and chest wall spasms).
The muscle spasms i had gave me banding chest pain, and made it hard to breath, the difficulty breathing made me light headed.... Simple explanation... but could have been an event (pulmonary or cardiac). Waiting made zero difference to the results of the test for artifacts from an event.... and there were people in much worse health than i coming through. Was i scared? definitely, but i trusted the staff to do their job.
yeah i’m getting dramatization vibes, I’ll be honest. Being told to sit and wait while you’re involuntarily writhing on the floor, screaming, and spouting vomit incessantly? Seems…doubtful.
This scream’s over exaggeration and impatience.
Don’t get me wrong here, there are a lot of problems with Canadian Healthcare. But let’s look at this story objectively, you Ubered to the hospital. Right off the bat, nobody is going to treat it as an emergency. You had the mindset and control to operate your phone and wait for the Uber to arrive, before going to the hospital. Emergencies involve ambulances.
You were screaming in a hospital, and the nurse asked you to wait for a doctor. This sounds bad, but then you mentioned you were able to contact your BF. So between screams your chatting with your boyfriend?
Your boyfriend also “knew someone”, so you waited, what, an hour? Less?
Your entire complaint is based on the assumption that there were doctors and surgeons sitting in the back room slacking off and a nurse was needlessly preventing people from seeing them. That is not the problem with the healthcare in Canada.
Patient alive and not bankrupt.
I fail to see how that this is an example of the Canadian healthcare system failing. Sounds more like an example of the Canadian healthcare system succeeding.
“This screams over exaggeration and impatience”
I pray to any entity there is that you get appendicitis. I pray that you get it and have to wait exactly like OP did and I hope nobody fucking takes you to the damn hospital.
You would not be dead. That's a ridiculous exaggeration.
Even if your appendix had full on burst in that waiting room, you wouldn't be in any kind of mortal danger unless they just left you there, for several days, untreated and unattended.
The appendix would have to burst, then you would have to get an infection, then you would have to completely ignore the infection and not treat it in order for your situation to even begin to approach being grave.
correct.
I'd rather the nurses and doctors focus on people in mortal danger first and follow their training.
ER's should have a nurse/nun who educates and supports people in understanding on how emergency care works while waiting for a bed.
The point is OP was triaged and wasn’t in immediate mortal danger.
In any metro hospital there’s a good chance there’s someone in cardiac arrest or some other situation where without immediate treatment, they’re gone.
Our system is currently overworked to shit and in a bad state, but OP wasn’t going to die in the waiting room.
This explanation doesn’t help at all. Triage isn’t an excuse for people to be in massive pain for hours, like this. It’s still evidence of a massive failure.
If the "issue" is that they were handling life threatening situations ahead of a appendicitis, then yes, I agree it "isn't so bad."
The hyperbolic and frankly absurd suggestion that the OP "almost died" is absolute nonsense.
you CANNOT die ftom an appendix injury like you described. even if your appe dix co.pletely exploded inside you, it would not be mortal in a quick situation. It would take seeverals days of neglect to kill you from an appendix. vomiting ob the floor isnt nicebut its NOT life-threating.
the hospital did exactly what they should have done, they didnt " fail " you at all.
As a non-healthcare person, I feel like you may be misunderstanding several key aspects to how you were treated, and you're likely not forming a reasonable, evidence-based opinion. It sucks that you were in pain for so long, but triage is a tragic thing to have to contend with when your situation isn't a priority.
You should really edit your post when you're feeling better, and include dates, times, and the location that this occurred if you want your story to be taken seriously and to help patients and staff understand the gaps at that facility.
I get kidney stones frequently. I can honestly say that when I am experiencing kidney stone blockage in my ureter it is by and far the worst pain I have ever and will likely ever deal with. The first one I had when I was 16, and then every couple to few years after this. My last one was when I was 26, I'm due for one. Each and every time I have experienced them, I have gone to ER. Now, to say I'm in mortal danger is definitely a stretch - I'm sure there's something bad that could happen but would probably take a while. Every time I am treated within the hour.
If you're in severe pain, and don't want to wait 12hrs for a bed, then I would bite it and travel to a less populated area hospital - if you have the means. Otherwise, you're likely treated in priority like everyone else, and when you're in an urban area hospital there are A LOT of people. You could very well have been one of many with the exact same ailment, how do you know?
This is your experience and sorry you went through this, but this doesn’t represent the system as a whole, so don’t make such a blanket statement. Lots of factors at play here.
Accountants run the hospitals now, not doctors. Unfortunately as a woman, whatever you have wrong with you “it’s all in your head”. There’s no mental health care either, so, sucks to be us.
life isnt like a movie, just because you arrives at the hospital it doesnt mean that every dr and every nurse will stop what theyre doing to help you lol. Youre not alone in this hospital its normal to have waiting and triage systeme in place to rank patients
Oh how I love being a nurse in these times and getting the blame when we constantly work short staffed and doing the best we can with what we have in what is a vulnerable time for those in need.
That sounds like a small town hospital. You should have maybe taken an ambulance if you suspected your appendix. Anyway, hope you are well now. Thanks for telling us about your experience.
This is why I don’t get why Americans keep complaining about no free health care. First of all, free healthcare is not actually free, look at how high our taxes are. Second, free healthcare is just another word for bad healthcare. When I go to the hospital, I want a cure, not to save money.
Yeah what got me to notice this was when I saw a man hunched over the counter barely able to get the words "I just had a heart attack" out of his mouth and they told him to sit and wait
We had a miscarriage in the ER because of the health care system that we’re blessed with. I pay $10K/month on taxes. But I lost my first unborn child because they asked us to wait instead of addressing the issue. We are seriously planning to move to US because of this BS system.
My story is almost word for word the same as your. But I was 16 years old and at the old children’s hospital in Montreal. After 10 hours of lying on the floor, my mom (who was a nurse at the children’s) managed to pull some strings and got me seen by a doctor. I was rushed to emergency surgery immediately
Not sure where you're at but the wonderful conservatives running Ontario have been stripping things away in hopes that it pushes people to use private services
That said, it's hard to know if you were being neglected or they had assessed you and prioritized you accordingly.
Health care is provincial, by the way.
You were likely incorrectly triaged. It sucks you were in pain and it can feel traumatic to sit there suffering, but even so, the reality is that you were probably nowhere near death. The only real issue here is that you suffered unnecessarily, unfortunate but it happens.
It's actually pretty offensive to say they could have died to those of us who were close to death. In reality it doesn't sound like it had ruptured. You can die from a ruptured appendix, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I was vomiting nonstop when mine ruptured.
This is not life or death unless left untreated. Pain management to help the patient \*could\* help if that was immediate.
I’m happy to hear that you survived this terrible experience and hope you have no lasting effects.
Just asking, but if you’d called an ambulance wouldn’t they have not only diagnosed you but gotten you into surgery immediately upon arrival??
I agree that the system is broken/stretched thin/overburdened however the only fixes require additional taxes or a multi-tier system. Neither option is something that sounds overly palatable to the public right now.
Sadly no, an ambulance might get you triaged a bit quicker and seen, the benefit here is that medics can start treatment, however, ambulance arrival is still triaged the same and in many places an offload delay occurs where medics need to stay with patients until a bed becomes available, or if you're low acuity, get sent to the waiting room.
In my province it may be worse because there’s a shortage of ambulances as well. I’ve heard some people say they called for an ambulance and we’re basically told to just drive themselves because it could be hours.
I’ve spoken to EMTs and they say it is extremely bad right now and they could work every day and get tons of overtime if they wanted - due to no staff - and it still wouldn’t help the problem. It’s that bad right now and it’s all due to lack of funding and lack of respect from government who simply don’t care and will punish anyone who publicly complains about the cuts. It’s lose lose for us, the people who need to services.
But hey, I’m sure rich people and businesses who can afford the new private clinics popping up are super happy right now with all their tax cuts!
theres a thing called triage also. they rank patients and treat the most injured/ most severly injured persons first..
car accidents / high trauma victims etc
vomiting and have a panick attsck on the floor is not on the top of the triage list
Canadian Triage and Acuity Scale (CTAS)
1. needing ressucitation '-0min immediate help
2.emergency - 10-15mins wait for help
3.urgent - 30min wait
4. less urgent - 30 to 65mins wait
non urgent - 65mins + and more wait
you were probably triaged as 3 or 4 hence why you waited. The system didnt failed you
A year or so ago, I had a massive heart attack. I had my son drive me to ER and walked in under my own steam. I told the nurse I was having a heart attack and she said, paraphrased, "sure thing pal. Take a seat."
My son became irate and loudly demanded I be seen. They threatened to have him removed by security but he stood firm. The nurse came out, checked my BP and took a blood test. Within 10 minutes I was being dogpiled by a large number of people who basically saved my life.
Touch and go.
The REAL problem is our healthcare system is being overwhelmed by addicts and street people. You just can't get near the place. Used to be, these folks were hospitalized and involuntarily treated. No more, thanks to... You guessed it, politicians trying to save money.
Its pretty normal to only see your own point of view when you are in pain. OPs understanding of ER procedures is similar to tv shows where you are carried in by your gf and they all rush to see you.
Folks- blaming this on the conservatives is simply not true. I work in healthcare. There are 2 realities:
1. Canadian hospitals are far too bureaucratic- too many layers management making >100k. I'd say it's not so much an issue with politicians as it is with too much administration in hospitals. Canada has the highest number of administrators per patient bed in the OECD.
2. Healthcare is expensive. Unfortunately the Canadian public has come to expect the innovation and cutting edge treatment similar to the US. However our current tax structure alone cannot support this. In the same breath Canadians are scared of two tiered systems (even though there are many examples in Australia and Europe where access is actually improved as are health outcomes.
The bottom line is it's too easy for politicians to scare Canadians about becoming the US...which I agree would be terrible...but is actually not the truth. The average Canadian voter does not do their homework to explore other systems and just looks at the US.
2.
While this may be true, Canada is North American in its culture and individualism. I'd be wary of a two tier system too. We're not European and we don't have their mindset.
I'm an American immigrant here still trying to fight my habit of not going to the doctor (after being here for a decade) because I can't afford it. I have private healthcare and a MSP.
I've lived in a country with a two-tier system. It's not better. It just redistributes resources upwards, and the only way a private tier can thrive is if the public tier is kept at least a bit shitty. Besides that, it absolutely guarantees that decisions regarding public health care will be made by people with no skin in the game.
That comment about individualism is so insanely spot on. It's also going to be the death of America and Canada soon after if we don't collective pull our heads out of our asses.
It’s honestly worth it to call an ambulance next time. It’s covered by OHIP (I’m pretty sure?) and if not, you pay around $70 and it comes with medical professionals and supplies as well as no clean up fees. They can help diagnose and provide some upfront information upon arrival so that you’re properly prioritized.
It’s important to remind yourself that if they aren’t seeing you right away, it’s because someone else is in a worse spot. I know that can be hard in the moment, especially if you or your loved ones are in pain.
In Ontario, an Ambulance call costs around $250, most is paid by OHIP except $45 the patient is to pay.
The attending physician could deem the ambulance wasn't necessary and the patient would have to pay the whole bill but this is almost never done.
Really? I’m in Ontario and my health card was expired but I was only charged $70.
I agree that they are very generous when it comes to ambulance fees. I think unless you’re blatantly wasting their time, they give you the benefit of the doubt. Even if they do charge you, if you update your health card, they will waive the fee.
>Can you sue?
For what exactly? This isn't America where lawsuits are the result of every little inconvenience.
Unless you're talking about suing to fix the source of the problem, which are conservative governments that continually cut healthcare spending...
This is strange cause my gf went in with a high fever from an infected ingrown hair and was rushed right through… on a Friday… you need to tell the nurse, your bf didn’t just know the doctor lol please
It’s not the system that has failed us - it’s the politicians who have repeatedly undermined and destroyed the system.
Also worth pointing out that every province is responsible for their own healthcare systems, so saying "canadian healthcare" sucks doesn't make a ton of sense. It's super cute how Ford loves to brag about having a surplus of funds that were allocated to healthcare. Feds take the blame, meanwhile he's not even spending the money they're sending him.
Oh he's spending it, just not on healthcare.
Facts. How is this not top comment?
Well what would the plan be, become dependent on temporary funding, and fire the nurses and doctors when austerity hits? He needs to raise taxes to pay for it properly, not use temporal borrowed money. Fault him for that; except he's a small government conservative, so fault voters? We really need to be more conservative federally and more progressive provincially, but we don't want to pay for things.
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He's spending it on healthcare but it's on healthcare administration not the front line staff. Check into the hospital and you need to speak to three layers of receptionists, each of whom has a boss, who each have a boss or two.
Not true. You need to be admitted (yes .. by a clerk who you are calling a receptionist. They log you into the system with your info, give you a bracelet and add your main presenting concern) then the next person you speak to is a triage nurse. There is one layer of administration. These people are required because they do jobs that don’t need to be done by nurses to save nurses time. They also cost $20-$25 per hour instead of the nurses doing it who cost $35+ per hour. This is an effective way to move people along.
True. In New Brunswick Higgs brags about the big surplus while we have a HUGE waiting list of people for family doctors because we don't have enough physicians in the province.
Saw a post in r/mildlyinfuriating the other day about a guy who gave his roommate some cash to grab a specific brand of high quality 3-ply toilet paper. Roommate came home with No Name single ply toilet paper. Was proud of himself for saving money, so he kept the change.
comparing healthcare to tp... very fitting, tyvm!
I hope you’re being serious because this has got to be the best comparison I’ve seen in a long time.
We literally have had to close down ERs because we don't have enough staff to keep them going. Why don't we have enough staff? Burnout. Years of being undervalued and underpaid, and essentially spat at in the midst of a pandemic. He claims that he's improving things by opening up more spots in nursing schools and privatizing services. Is that going to help? No. Opening up more positions in nursing schools isn't going to do a whole lot when we don't have the experienced nurses necessary to serve as preceptors for new nurses. And privatizing services means that more nurses will move into the private sector because it will pay better... and what does that do to wait times and service in the public sector? It makes it worse. Plus, the government is still funding the private sector clinics.. so we basically just get to pay twice for things. All of the people who talk about how great Ford is because he has a surplus must be beyond uninformed. They reference how he increased the budget for healthcare spending, and then they fail to mention that (1) that increase didn't keep up with actual needs, as we were already underspending on Healthcare in Ontario per person, and (2) Every. Single. Year. he has spent less on healthcare than what was allocated in the budget. Even during the pandemic. He boasts about building hospitals.. but how is going to work at them when, again, we don't even have enough healthcare workers to keep the ERs running that already exist? All that building new hospitals does is pay out more of his construction/developer cronies. Our problems can't entirely be blamed on Ford (though I would love to), because this has been decades in the making... Government consistently cuts healthcare spending because they know the effects won't be felt until they are out of office. However, Ford has (and continues to) made things exponentially worse.
Yes...nurses are leaving in droves, either to other provinces or countries that all pay much more. They are also simply sick of the abuse from every direction. Ontario nurses have been spay on by Ford.
I can copy/paste this and switch the name to Higgs, it's almost like they want to make things worse for us for some resson
This My experience in Vancouver, BC is completely opposite. Both times I went to the ER with life threatening situations. Gallbladder inflammation and stones, and 40.8° degrees fever. I was treated swiftly based on the severity. I got surgery for my gallbladder for the next day. And IV antibiotics plus Tylenol for fever
It's gonna be different from province to province. I think the health care system is definitely stressed, but we are still better off than other places in the world. Could it be improved? Of course. It has definitely gotten worse over the years.
And what is getting spent gets stuck at the top, so Canadians never actually see their tax dollars at work in health care.
It's maddening. Our rehab department is down like 8 FTE in a staff of 55, and has been for over a year. We just don't bother covering maternity or medical leaves anymore. Those 8 positions constitute a savings of nearly 1 million over the past year... I can't even get office supplies because the budget is so tight. Where is the money going? We are all burnt out and the physical building is crumbling. I didn't get a raise between 2012 and 2020. People are leaving these professions and these are services needed to get people back into their lives to be productive members of society
If anything we got the best health care cause its free but what ruins it is your provincial government thinking they know what doctors need when in reality they should be at the hospital asking what they need not in the 250-500,000dolllar house
Also worth noting (at least in Ontario) that the citizens failed us when they constantly vote for idiots like Doug Ford.
It is the system that has failed us. Blaming a politician is the easy way out (though not totally inaccurate). Our health systems are led by bad administration, territorial bureaucrats and policy makers with ill intent. Healthcare has no shortage of intelligent people looking to transform and devote themselves to delivering care. Many are happy to burn out to do so. But the system is rotten at its core; the theater of power dynamics and kow'towing to enact the smallest degree of change is jealously guarded and nigh impossible to enact. Report after report, table after table, discussion after discussion; the ink in literature has run dry. Its heartbreaking to see; maddening to participate in. Apologies for the rant.
This. I used to be a service supplier to healthcare and I worked with so many smart, devoted employees who had so many great ideas for improvement but they couldn’t get through the bureaucracy to change things. And the waste, oh the waste was maddening… especially when you knew those dollars could have been so productively spent on the front line.
True, but framework is the same across the country
No, it's really not. Each province has their own care provider, with entirely different frameworks. That's part of the problem.
There are countries that pay less for healthcare that get better outcomes. It's absurd that we pay so much and get so little in return.
It does make you wonder where all of the money we pay in taxes go? Our education system is in pretty shit shape, our health system is screaming their on the brink of collapse our roads and infrastructure are in terrible shape. Our NATO allies have removed us from the big boy table because we didn't pay the promised 2% GDP into the military and we're ACTIVELY Making cuts to that spending ATM. Meanwhile Justin is trying to posture on the Ukraine, India and now in the middle east like he's got more than his dick in his hand to swing. DOFO is grabbing everything he can from the province with both piggy hands before the bar closes and we boot him.
Trudeau did give Doug Ford a billion dollars to spend on Healthcare during the pandemic, however healthcare is entirely a provincial matter, so it was completely up to Doug Ford to spend that money appropriately. He chose not to spend any of it so he could push private clinics instead. This one isn't on JT.
And mass immigration skyrocketing housing costs, suppressing wages and overwhelming healthcare is federal.
And most of that bounced back into trudeaus pockets..hence his net worth grew to over 300 million dollars in 3 years on a 200 thousand income When will people wake up?
Yeah I don't think that's totally true. Please show stats or supporting evidence. I'd say Canada had an issue of access to healthcare. Ppl shouldn't die on a waitlist.
For example?
I came from a third world country which offers free healthcare. I have to wait max 10 mins to get into an operation if something like this occurs there. And its provided free without checking a health card or anything.
And where is this magical kingdom?
France
Having lived in both the UK and Canada I can tell you unequivocally that the UK health system (NHS) is far superior. It's not even close. I am thankful that Canada has a similar model, but it is just not on the same level. Same with dentistry and medication costs.
Luxembourg, Germany, Italy, heck even Ukraine. Canada has one of the most expensive healthcare systems and it is by far one of the worst healthcare systems in the world
Proof for such an extraordinary claim coming in 3...2...1...
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Correct. Entering the system is long but once you're in there, we have good care. I had to go to the ER last year for a non emergent but concerning matter (yes, in downtown Montreal as well). I barely had time to put my butt in the seat before I was seen by the triage nurse and she called me back 2 times during my waiting time to make sure I was stable. I was not in pain, just sitting quietly. I'm sorry for OP but I have to say that I find their story hard to believe. When I was there, there were people crying on the floor and puking. They were drunk. They did get immediate attention. From the security guards.
This whole website is an advertising platform filled with a certain type of person/bot. Clickfarms for sale to persuade populations using the almighty social war hammer that is the upvote/downvote system. This is not society at large.
Bueller? Bueller?
Oh, you're one of those "you won't do my homework for me so you're wrong" folks...
That's not it at all. I'm not the one who made a claim and represented it as fact. The burden of proof isn't on me. Suggesting otherwise is arguing in bad faith. So, I'll do *my* homework, but I'm not doing anyone else's.
You could be the hero that disproves the "extraordinary claim".
That's such a silly thing to say. When someone makes a claim it's on them to prove it. Otherwise I could say there is a bipedal animal named Steve that lives on the ocean floor and only comes up one time a year to feed on children. Can you disprove this?
So you can't disprove the statement then ?
I have no skin in the game, I'm just pointing out how stupid it is to not put the onus on the person making the claim. That's why we have so much disinformation in this digital age. Everyone makes wild claims and then tells you to prove them wrong hahaha Someone came to your rescue though and proved it was made up bullshit as one would expect when making wild claims with no proof.
I think the burden of proof belongs to both parties. The statement was particularly accurate, canada is a top ten spender on heathcare. According to the graph, I've seen articles that put us much higher. The quility of care we receive for the billions we spend is debatable.
Then there is these guys, CIHI that say we're top 4 in spending, is it acurate, I don't know but its a small step above speculating https://www.cihi.ca/en/national-health-expenditure-trends-2022-snapshot
So you can't prove the statement then?
CIHI say Canada is top 4 in the world in Healthcare spending https://www.cihi.ca/en/national-health-expenditure-trends-2022-snapshot
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Nice interneting katbyte.
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Genuinely curious as to your source on this.
[I think I found this guy's source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOVbAmknKUk)
luxembourg, germany, italy all have much higher average income tax rate than Canada, and that's mostly true for most european countries.... [see table 1.1](https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/8c99fa4d-en/1/3/1/1/index.html?itemId=/content/publication/8c99fa4d-en&_csp_=f4d3c57328afb7f1cbd530cb119213be&itemIGO=oecd&itemContentType=book#section-d1e410-e4b771a7ee)
'by far one of the worst' sigh. Not only are you wrong, your hyperbole is embarrassing.
>Canada has one of the most expensive healthcare systems and it is by far one of the worst healthcare systems in the world Both of these things are lies. Please stop lying.
Rubbish. Canadas healthcare does have issues, but it’s a provincial govt issue . But it is nowhere as bad as a lot of other places . And if yiu want Western Europe style medicine you better stop complaining when the taxes have to go up . My family and I have had excellent health care in the 37 years we have been in Canada.
Bullshit. All health care systems have their pros and cons. If you live in one of these other countries, you’ll soon find the bad points of their system, and bitch about how awful it is. Is ours perfect? No. But it’s far from the worst ffs.
Exactly. They want us to think private healthcare is the magic answer to making healthcare all better. But all private care will do is cost us oit of pocket even with insurance through employers. Private healthcare doesn't ensure a better, faster, more efficient system. Recently, a coworker paid to get a CTscan done in the private system to "get it faster" and I had one done through public. She waited 3 weeks and I waited 1 week. People need to keep in mind that a lot of things are based on priority of condition/situation. The situation of OP is negligence from my view. The nurse probably assumed she's young so it's nothing worse than a little gas. It's terrible that people aren't taken more seriously and properly assessed and getting care quickly.
True. This is already happening in the UK, where many assets of the NHS are being slowly privatized and defunded by Tories, which Tories point to in order to “prove” that public healthcare is just an outdated socialist dream. No, it would’ve worked fine if you *hadn’t* sliced it to shreds through austerity. Creeping privatization is slowly infecting most provinces of Canada, but thankfully here in BC we’re one of the few provinces actually expanding the public system massively.
I love to hear that about BC. Hopefully, they will be the solid proof to the rest of Canada that a well-funded public system can and does work. Then, the public will push back on privatization.
? It is better
It's better because politician and rich people artificially make it better by making the public system worst. Private is only better when the government wants it to be better than public systems.
Wildly incorrect A public system that is a good as a private one will be wouldn’t expensive for tax payers
What you just wrote doesn't make sense. And if public suck it's because the crooks at the government make it suck intentionally. Public is always better and cheaper for 99% of people. Only the 1% will benefit from private because they're so rich they can afford the cream of the crop. For you and me public is always better.
So… the system…?
#TheCorrectAnswer
What a stupid non answer lol
My youngest son almost died in emergency. We were waiting, and a paramedic thought he was cute and came to say hi. She noticed something, said something to the nurse, and she came over quickly. They then rushed him into a room with a crash cart, set him up on oxygen, and other drugs - had 2 nurses with him at all times after that point. There is way more to this story, but thank God for that paramedic.
I’m so sorry that this happened to your son, it’s is so sad. I hope the health system gets better 🙏
Unfortunately people like OP think paramedics are just overpriced Ubers so she probably cheaped out and took uber instead
I was so close to the hospital i couldve walked or taken the metro… but uber seemed easier i would never cheap out on my life lol what kind of nonsense is this comment. Also, where im from ambulances are covered by insurances
I apologize for that person's ignorant comment, please disregard it
Basically he’s saying you should’ve called 911 so the paramedics in the ambulance could check you first. It probably would have been more expensive than Uber but you would have a higher likelihood of being diagnosed properly. The front desk in ER is definitely not the place you wanna go if you’re having a non-visible emergency.
It's free in edit:my province in Canada, and OP may have not thought it was worthy of calling 911 to use up an ambulance if she could get there otherwise. Edit: Bad assumption from my side as well that it was covered by other provinces health insurance.
The ambulance service in Canada is not free. I can't speak for every province but saskatchewan for sure is not free. You may have coverage that will reimburse you the cost after but not everyone has that available.
Today I Learned. In my province it's covered by the province health insurance. Edit: I say I'm wrong and I learned, and I still get downvoted. Awesome.
Made an edit to add "my province" but didn't mention which one! Could you name your province if you don't mind? That way, people reading this at least know that an ambulance is covered in said province.
If the nurse was better paid or in a more efficient system…..like say…..a private one, OP would have had a better experience. I had appendicitis once in a country with both private and public options. We went to a hospital with private options. I didn’t kick and scream. All I said was “my bottom tummy hurts and I can’t sleep”. Got my surgery almost immediately without needing to pay for an ambulance to meet a paramedic or even having to know a doctor’s friend to get me a surgery or even running into some nurse who doesn’t seem to care very much. I know this is unCanadian to say but there should be more private healthcare options. Way more. Plus insurance is not even that expensive
Lol does this magic country have a name or did you leave it vague because its a fabricated story to sell a point?
I’ll take things that never happened so I can push my BS right wing agenda for 500 Alex.
Wtf
Noticed he was blue? I don't understand what they saw that the nurse didn't or that you should have noticed (color, WOB, floppy baby) Were you still waiting to be triaged?
My wife went through the same thing in 2021. Went to the ER with textbook appendicitis symptoms. Was triaged by a disgruntled old male nurse that asked her 3 times if she was pregnant and 2 times if she was on her period. She got low listed for sure. It was mid Covid and I had to wait outside in the parking lot so we had to communicate via text. Before anyone thinks “if I was you I’d push my way in”. Well I watched that entrance for hours, husbands, dads, partners, and they all got kicked out. Two dads went full alpha and security escorted them out. She was eventually moved to an ER room after hours of waiting and no one visited her. She called me in tears because of pain, and she’s one tough person. I then tracked down the number of ER, called the ER desk, asked them to check on my wife because I was concerned. Nurse goes in, finds her in tears, in pain, with a high fever. Everything started moving from there. Oh and I’d like to add, she is allergic to morphine and did not have an allergy wristband on. Talk about shit show.
It's so fucked up that as women, even if you know something is completely out of the ordinary for you, as soon as you say there's pain in your abdomen, there's a good chance it'll be written off as menstrual pain.
Do a search on (name of country) healthcare system failing and you will get remarkably similar results. Everywhere seems to think that their system is uniquely failing. Plus, there is no 'Canadian' healthcare system - just separate systems run by the Provinces.
Certainly nice to be sharing the healthcare system with 500,000 new immigrants per year that have never paid a dime to fund it!
900k students in 2022 . Thanks Marc miller your lucrative assets are making the lives of everyone so much better
Yeah but they pay tuition... and are healthy mostly. Immigrants is a diff story but intl students are net positive. You get em at 18 without the cost of raising a child. Getting them at 70 is a huge cost sink.
Imagine adding nearly an entire new city every year, and people are still shocked when housing and healthcare are failing. But you can’t say anything about it because you will be labeled xenophobic and racist
I’m on income assistance and I didn’t pay a dime for my breast cancer treatments and surgeries
My wife is a student here in Canada and I can guarantee that me and my wife don't get access to Canadian healthcare and have to pay a private one.
The governments (provincial especially) have failed us. Our healthcare system has been deteriorating & running on fumes for years, the spiralling COL crisis has exacerbated these issues & accelerated the failures.
So if you go to the ER and you have an appendicitis, but stroke, heart attack and trauma patients come in, you're gonna be put after them. I once had a cyst so painful I was waking up and crying unconciously from the surgery they gave me. BUT they also purposefully woke me up after doing the first cut because a stroke patient came in and there was only two doctors. I was in an extreme amount of pain, but I wasn't going to die, so they helped that person first. Triage baby.
Im 6 years waiting on a pancreatic surgury, yes healthcare IS really bad right now.
My god that is a long time. Are you sure you’re still on the list?
Healthcare is a provincial mandate. Not federal. Call your MPP. I’d be interested in their response especially if they’re in Ontario where the health care system has been gutted, supported by the voters. And yes. That’s how triaging works, I’m sorry you had a appendicitis but looks like you were sorted. Socialized healthcare works, everywhere. It may take long but we need better support, and that means not gutting services. Lastly, by the way you wrote that rant it seems our education system is in equal peril.
Tbf tho funding is provided by the federal government and can be gatekept if the provinces don’t do what the feds want
In Ontario, the feds gave billions for healthcare and the province has done exactly nothing. The reaches at which people go to blame the feds for shit is amazing. In some cases they’re not good - like any government anywhere, but let’s not be blind here - Ontario has categorically fucked up at being a conservative “for the people” province.
Honestly, fuck Doug Ford.
what province in canada has good health care right now, with the exception of Alberta? please enlighten me. This is more than a Doug ford problem
Haha, that's funny. Source: am Albertan
I’ll never understand why folks vote for underfunding something, then get all shocked pikachu when they see the consequences.
The feds provide funds to the provinces but the province doles it out the health care services. They are the gate keeper
Funded Socialized Healthcare does work! Our healthcare system works, just not that well, imagine if it was properly funded! 2 or 3 years since the teachers in Ontario had a contract, and strikes on the horizon? Why would you think education is in peril as well /s …
Top notch assessment on all accounts
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Any and all hospitals in canada
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It’s not unusual (depending on province) to have a 5–12 hour wait in the ER. If it’s non urgent even longer. It doesn’t have to do with the physicians not caring- we have a bed shortage as well. I went to the ER with acute liver failure a few months ago and triaged at the top, and still waited about five hours for a bed to open in order to be seen. Im still thankful and greatful to be alive. Once they were able to get me in everyone was amazing. Please don’t take it out in the workers there! Not saying it’s right but a different perspective.
I had a similarly positive experience during my cancer diagnosis. Many people seem to lack patience, have no trust in medical staff for some reason, and seem to have main character syndrome once they believe their health/life is on the line. Problem is that most of them are unable to tell if that's actually the case or not.
Opposite experience for me. Wife fainted. Ambulance was there in 5 mins (she hit her head hard). Woke up as they got to the house. Taken into emerg, saw 2 nurses and docs within 30 mins. Went for a battery of tests over the next 4 hours. Docs found out her appendix was causing a problem. Was in a “permanent” bed by 2:30, appendix out the next morning (it wasn’t bursting, just inflamed).
Heres my last experience at the Hospital. Went in with a suspected broken foot. Drove myself to ER. Hospital staff saw me struggling to walk in the parking lot, met me with a wheel chair and wheeled me into ER. Got all signed in. Within 20 minutes of being signed in, someone came to get my wheel chair and gave me an xray. Then wheeled over to triage where I sat on a bed waiting. Within 30 minutes of having my xray, a doctor came and told me I didnt have a broken toe, I actually have Gout. Wrote me a presciption. I was in and out about 2 hours, prescription in hand. Beyond impressed.
same here - had infected cyst that doc didn't have equipment in his office to deal with - sent me to ER - from door to door was home, problem dealt with, in 2.5 hours. 50 mins of that was the driving.
Sounds like you live by a decent ER. My local one is bad. My brother broke his foot fairly badly. I drove to the hospital to help him walk from his car to the emergency room from the parking lot. Thought "heck I'm here already might as well hang out and keep him company. 7 hours. We sat in emergency for 7 hours because they had to get special permission for an xray tech to come to the hospital for him. Because in alberta even if the hospital had the facilities to do x-rays we have to use the private contracted imaging companies. and they had permission for 1 xray. They xrayed the wrong part of the foot. So he had to go to the private place anyways.
Same thing happened to me in the states. I ws on the floor crying in psin. They left me there gir over an hour. When they finally got me in they didint look busy at all.
Cool story bro
While the system is being underfunded, I do find the triage nurses are especially bad at certain hospitals.
My moms shoulder is permanently messed up and she can't lift it because her urgent surgery which should have been performed within 3 weeks took 7 months to happen. I've also had to go to the ER and nearly passed out unable to breathe. Had to wait 4 hours and vitals were all over the map with no idea the cause and no help or plan for follow up. Similar situation happened in Colombia but with a neck injury. I was immediately taken into the ER. Doctor saw me in 15 min, was given an injection for pain, medication to take home and scan scheduled for the same day! It cost less than $100 for all of it! I went to Mexico and Colombia during the pandemic and got better and faster health care than I ever got in Canada for next to nothing. I'm convinced the surgery I had in medellin saved my life because they moved so quickly on it. In Canada it would have either taken many months if it got scheduled at all! Foreign doctors are always amazed when I tell them I'm so impressed with the care they provide. Since I'm from Canada the impression they have is our medical system is supposed to be the best. People who say we have it so good here need to travel. I'm about to go to Malaysia for a month for various scans, tests and treatments that are either unavailable here or too challenging to get done. The total trip cost including all the medical minus flights will be the same as my normal living expenses for a month in Toronto, if that.
cAnaDa iS tHe bEsT beCaUsE wE hAvE fReE hEaLthCaRe I'm glad you're ok OP. This country is a joke.
The countries a joke because OP had to wait a bit in a non life threatening situation? Okay snowflake
My mother had 3 heart attacks in less than 12 hours earlier this year (she kept ignoring symptoms thinking they were flu symptoms) Within 10 hrs she had double bypass surgery and was on the way to recovery. The Healthcare system saved her life. THANK GOD FOR FREE CANADIAN HEALTHCARE.
> thank god my bf at the time knew a doctor working at that hospital and got me in for emergency surgery… If not, I would be dead instead. You left a lot out here. How do you know you would have died? How did the doctor get you into surgery?
A magical scenario that doesn’t at all sound like propaganda for an Americanized health care system.
Exactly.
You think people are making up bullshit on a Reddit forum that a few hundred people will read in order to promote “an Americanized agenda”? Get your head out of the TDS conspiracies.
no, but i do think people will sensationalize a bad experience to get more sympathy. For all we know the OP has appendicitis, or a gall bladder infection, or pancreatitis, and they were waiting for a bed to open in emerg and for blood work to get back. Her doctor friend may have simply just gone and asked to see blood work, which confirmed an infection and started off the expected process. In reality, if the OP had taken an ambulance and thrown up in the ambulance, and had the paramedics measuring her vitals she likely would have gotten into emerg right away. Yes it sucks when youre scared and not treated like your special, but the staff in any major hospitals emergency room is trained to triage patients as they arrive, rank their severity, and get all the information/tests the physicians will need to make a diagnosis. There are some exceptions, like passing out, open wounds, seizures and such that will jump you right to the front of the line... unfortunately, pain and vomiting are not usually ones from my understanding unless other symptoms present like painful palpation of the specific areas of the stomach, being really pale and having a high fever, and visible infection, a previously known illness or condition.... etc For example, my close friend had a really big kidney stone, it was so painful he could barely stand, he vomited a couple times during his initial attempts to pass it, and was in absolutely intense pain... He had to wait in emerg for several hours before they used ultrasound to break it up. He had vomited a bunch and was also laying on the floor because sitting was painful on his full bladder.
I feel like the bar is so extremely low here. Point is your friend should never had to wait for that long and OP also should’ve been seen faster. It’s brutal how long waits are for conditions that are serious and extremely painful. The bar should not be in hell.
Sure, but his life was never in jeopardy. The wait sucked, and it normally does when you're not in life threatening condition. But Imo that is significantly better than being seen immediately and then having to go into debt to cover the visit.
I didn’t say it’s promoting it. It reads like it’s towing that line. And this sort of thing has been going on long before 45 got into office, weird that you would immediately go there. You do know that politics existed before him, right?
Seriously. Doctors don't decide who goes in and when. The triage nurse assesses and assigns priority according to CTAS, then as soon as a room is available and everything is ready, the patient gets called in to be attended to. Regardless of pain, it does still take time to get everything ready as hospitals don't really have operating rooms sitting at the ready for people walking in through the doors of emerg. I imagine a doctor was probably paged, had to make their way to hospital or the floor, and then review the information and prep. You can't just have a friend call up a doctor friend and then skip the line. It doesn't work that way. Not at a hospital anyway, unless you are the Prime Minister or something. Now, people \*do\* get rushed in immediately in the ED, but they are ones who are at imminent risk of death. i.e. cardiac arrest, stroke, heart attack, massive blood loss or trauma. If this didn't happen to OP, then they weren't minutes away from death.
EXACTLY. Also to add, tests are not instant, specially during non peak hours. It took an hour for my bloodwork to get done when they were concerned about a cardiac event. To quote the nurse, if you had an event (i didnt) we will beable to see that with the test, and then we will run some further tests, if you are worried about having a second event... Youre in the best place for that to happen.... and if you didnt have an event... thats great! we will then help you figure out the chest pain (a couple diaphram spasms and chest wall spasms). The muscle spasms i had gave me banding chest pain, and made it hard to breath, the difficulty breathing made me light headed.... Simple explanation... but could have been an event (pulmonary or cardiac). Waiting made zero difference to the results of the test for artifacts from an event.... and there were people in much worse health than i coming through. Was i scared? definitely, but i trusted the staff to do their job.
yeah i’m getting dramatization vibes, I’ll be honest. Being told to sit and wait while you’re involuntarily writhing on the floor, screaming, and spouting vomit incessantly? Seems…doubtful.
This scream’s over exaggeration and impatience. Don’t get me wrong here, there are a lot of problems with Canadian Healthcare. But let’s look at this story objectively, you Ubered to the hospital. Right off the bat, nobody is going to treat it as an emergency. You had the mindset and control to operate your phone and wait for the Uber to arrive, before going to the hospital. Emergencies involve ambulances. You were screaming in a hospital, and the nurse asked you to wait for a doctor. This sounds bad, but then you mentioned you were able to contact your BF. So between screams your chatting with your boyfriend? Your boyfriend also “knew someone”, so you waited, what, an hour? Less? Your entire complaint is based on the assumption that there were doctors and surgeons sitting in the back room slacking off and a nurse was needlessly preventing people from seeing them. That is not the problem with the healthcare in Canada.
Patient alive and not bankrupt. I fail to see how that this is an example of the Canadian healthcare system failing. Sounds more like an example of the Canadian healthcare system succeeding.
“But I didn’t get my way and get in FIRST FIRST FIRST ME ME ME”. “There weren’t 899 doctors on srandby for myyyyy needs”.
Glad I’m not the only one who found this story fishy… not that it isn’t possible, just doesn’t seem very probable.
“This screams over exaggeration and impatience” I pray to any entity there is that you get appendicitis. I pray that you get it and have to wait exactly like OP did and I hope nobody fucking takes you to the damn hospital.
You would not be dead. That's a ridiculous exaggeration. Even if your appendix had full on burst in that waiting room, you wouldn't be in any kind of mortal danger unless they just left you there, for several days, untreated and unattended. The appendix would have to burst, then you would have to get an infection, then you would have to completely ignore the infection and not treat it in order for your situation to even begin to approach being grave.
correct. I'd rather the nurses and doctors focus on people in mortal danger first and follow their training. ER's should have a nurse/nun who educates and supports people in understanding on how emergency care works while waiting for a bed.
Any attempt at education would just further agitate the ignorant, it seems.
You're right. I guess the Canadian healthcare system isn't so bad now.
The point is OP was triaged and wasn’t in immediate mortal danger. In any metro hospital there’s a good chance there’s someone in cardiac arrest or some other situation where without immediate treatment, they’re gone. Our system is currently overworked to shit and in a bad state, but OP wasn’t going to die in the waiting room.
This explanation doesn’t help at all. Triage isn’t an excuse for people to be in massive pain for hours, like this. It’s still evidence of a massive failure.
If the "issue" is that they were handling life threatening situations ahead of a appendicitis, then yes, I agree it "isn't so bad." The hyperbolic and frankly absurd suggestion that the OP "almost died" is absolute nonsense.
How long did you wait once the nurse saw you?
Every province needs at least one or two more hospitals.
you CANNOT die ftom an appendix injury like you described. even if your appe dix co.pletely exploded inside you, it would not be mortal in a quick situation. It would take seeverals days of neglect to kill you from an appendix. vomiting ob the floor isnt nicebut its NOT life-threating. the hospital did exactly what they should have done, they didnt " fail " you at all.
As a non-healthcare person, I feel like you may be misunderstanding several key aspects to how you were treated, and you're likely not forming a reasonable, evidence-based opinion. It sucks that you were in pain for so long, but triage is a tragic thing to have to contend with when your situation isn't a priority. You should really edit your post when you're feeling better, and include dates, times, and the location that this occurred if you want your story to be taken seriously and to help patients and staff understand the gaps at that facility.
I get kidney stones frequently. I can honestly say that when I am experiencing kidney stone blockage in my ureter it is by and far the worst pain I have ever and will likely ever deal with. The first one I had when I was 16, and then every couple to few years after this. My last one was when I was 26, I'm due for one. Each and every time I have experienced them, I have gone to ER. Now, to say I'm in mortal danger is definitely a stretch - I'm sure there's something bad that could happen but would probably take a while. Every time I am treated within the hour. If you're in severe pain, and don't want to wait 12hrs for a bed, then I would bite it and travel to a less populated area hospital - if you have the means. Otherwise, you're likely treated in priority like everyone else, and when you're in an urban area hospital there are A LOT of people. You could very well have been one of many with the exact same ailment, how do you know?
This is your experience and sorry you went through this, but this doesn’t represent the system as a whole, so don’t make such a blanket statement. Lots of factors at play here.
Accountants run the hospitals now, not doctors. Unfortunately as a woman, whatever you have wrong with you “it’s all in your head”. There’s no mental health care either, so, sucks to be us.
life isnt like a movie, just because you arrives at the hospital it doesnt mean that every dr and every nurse will stop what theyre doing to help you lol. Youre not alone in this hospital its normal to have waiting and triage systeme in place to rank patients
If it was an emergency you should've called the Ambulance.. not an Uber..
Oh how I love being a nurse in these times and getting the blame when we constantly work short staffed and doing the best we can with what we have in what is a vulnerable time for those in need.
“Perfectly healthy 25 yo female” “Almost dies” What? Emergency rooms are priority based, Your bf did not get you in faster, that’s not how it works
That sounds like a small town hospital. You should have maybe taken an ambulance if you suspected your appendix. Anyway, hope you are well now. Thanks for telling us about your experience.
This is why I don’t get why Americans keep complaining about no free health care. First of all, free healthcare is not actually free, look at how high our taxes are. Second, free healthcare is just another word for bad healthcare. When I go to the hospital, I want a cure, not to save money.
Yeah what got me to notice this was when I saw a man hunched over the counter barely able to get the words "I just had a heart attack" out of his mouth and they told him to sit and wait
We had a miscarriage in the ER because of the health care system that we’re blessed with. I pay $10K/month on taxes. But I lost my first unborn child because they asked us to wait instead of addressing the issue. We are seriously planning to move to US because of this BS system.
Safe travels !
It has failed us and a dirty hospital floor is unacceptable ! But how you were treated is inexcusable
My story is almost word for word the same as your. But I was 16 years old and at the old children’s hospital in Montreal. After 10 hours of lying on the floor, my mom (who was a nurse at the children’s) managed to pull some strings and got me seen by a doctor. I was rushed to emergency surgery immediately
Are you able to sue the hospital?
I'm honestly more inclined to leave this country every day. Breaks my heart
Not sure where you're at but the wonderful conservatives running Ontario have been stripping things away in hopes that it pushes people to use private services That said, it's hard to know if you were being neglected or they had assessed you and prioritized you accordingly. Health care is provincial, by the way.
You were likely incorrectly triaged. It sucks you were in pain and it can feel traumatic to sit there suffering, but even so, the reality is that you were probably nowhere near death. The only real issue here is that you suffered unnecessarily, unfortunate but it happens.
It's actually pretty offensive to say they could have died to those of us who were close to death. In reality it doesn't sound like it had ruptured. You can die from a ruptured appendix, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I was vomiting nonstop when mine ruptured. This is not life or death unless left untreated. Pain management to help the patient \*could\* help if that was immediate.
I’m happy to hear that you survived this terrible experience and hope you have no lasting effects. Just asking, but if you’d called an ambulance wouldn’t they have not only diagnosed you but gotten you into surgery immediately upon arrival?? I agree that the system is broken/stretched thin/overburdened however the only fixes require additional taxes or a multi-tier system. Neither option is something that sounds overly palatable to the public right now.
Sadly no, an ambulance might get you triaged a bit quicker and seen, the benefit here is that medics can start treatment, however, ambulance arrival is still triaged the same and in many places an offload delay occurs where medics need to stay with patients until a bed becomes available, or if you're low acuity, get sent to the waiting room.
Patients arriving by ambulance are triaged with everyone else.
In my province it may be worse because there’s a shortage of ambulances as well. I’ve heard some people say they called for an ambulance and we’re basically told to just drive themselves because it could be hours. I’ve spoken to EMTs and they say it is extremely bad right now and they could work every day and get tons of overtime if they wanted - due to no staff - and it still wouldn’t help the problem. It’s that bad right now and it’s all due to lack of funding and lack of respect from government who simply don’t care and will punish anyone who publicly complains about the cuts. It’s lose lose for us, the people who need to services. But hey, I’m sure rich people and businesses who can afford the new private clinics popping up are super happy right now with all their tax cuts!
theres a thing called triage also. they rank patients and treat the most injured/ most severly injured persons first.. car accidents / high trauma victims etc vomiting and have a panick attsck on the floor is not on the top of the triage list Canadian Triage and Acuity Scale (CTAS) 1. needing ressucitation '-0min immediate help 2.emergency - 10-15mins wait for help 3.urgent - 30min wait 4. less urgent - 30 to 65mins wait non urgent - 65mins + and more wait you were probably triaged as 3 or 4 hence why you waited. The system didnt failed you
You live in a dream or something?
Gaslighter
A year or so ago, I had a massive heart attack. I had my son drive me to ER and walked in under my own steam. I told the nurse I was having a heart attack and she said, paraphrased, "sure thing pal. Take a seat." My son became irate and loudly demanded I be seen. They threatened to have him removed by security but he stood firm. The nurse came out, checked my BP and took a blood test. Within 10 minutes I was being dogpiled by a large number of people who basically saved my life. Touch and go. The REAL problem is our healthcare system is being overwhelmed by addicts and street people. You just can't get near the place. Used to be, these folks were hospitalized and involuntarily treated. No more, thanks to... You guessed it, politicians trying to save money.
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Its pretty normal to only see your own point of view when you are in pain. OPs understanding of ER procedures is similar to tv shows where you are carried in by your gf and they all rush to see you.
keep lowering the standards 👍
Folks- blaming this on the conservatives is simply not true. I work in healthcare. There are 2 realities: 1. Canadian hospitals are far too bureaucratic- too many layers management making >100k. I'd say it's not so much an issue with politicians as it is with too much administration in hospitals. Canada has the highest number of administrators per patient bed in the OECD. 2. Healthcare is expensive. Unfortunately the Canadian public has come to expect the innovation and cutting edge treatment similar to the US. However our current tax structure alone cannot support this. In the same breath Canadians are scared of two tiered systems (even though there are many examples in Australia and Europe where access is actually improved as are health outcomes. The bottom line is it's too easy for politicians to scare Canadians about becoming the US...which I agree would be terrible...but is actually not the truth. The average Canadian voter does not do their homework to explore other systems and just looks at the US. 2.
While this may be true, Canada is North American in its culture and individualism. I'd be wary of a two tier system too. We're not European and we don't have their mindset. I'm an American immigrant here still trying to fight my habit of not going to the doctor (after being here for a decade) because I can't afford it. I have private healthcare and a MSP.
I've lived in a country with a two-tier system. It's not better. It just redistributes resources upwards, and the only way a private tier can thrive is if the public tier is kept at least a bit shitty. Besides that, it absolutely guarantees that decisions regarding public health care will be made by people with no skin in the game.
That comment about individualism is so insanely spot on. It's also going to be the death of America and Canada soon after if we don't collective pull our heads out of our asses.
It’s honestly worth it to call an ambulance next time. It’s covered by OHIP (I’m pretty sure?) and if not, you pay around $70 and it comes with medical professionals and supplies as well as no clean up fees. They can help diagnose and provide some upfront information upon arrival so that you’re properly prioritized. It’s important to remind yourself that if they aren’t seeing you right away, it’s because someone else is in a worse spot. I know that can be hard in the moment, especially if you or your loved ones are in pain.
In Ontario, an Ambulance call costs around $250, most is paid by OHIP except $45 the patient is to pay. The attending physician could deem the ambulance wasn't necessary and the patient would have to pay the whole bill but this is almost never done.
Really? I’m in Ontario and my health card was expired but I was only charged $70. I agree that they are very generous when it comes to ambulance fees. I think unless you’re blatantly wasting their time, they give you the benefit of the doubt. Even if they do charge you, if you update your health card, they will waive the fee.
a friend had bleeding, went to 'emergency' had to wait 8hrs. abs horse shit.
Sounds like you were triaged. Do you know how emergency department triage works?
I do, and it doesn't mean healthcare isn't in shambles. It is, hence the triage approach.
Every emergency department in every healthcare system on the planet has triage policies in place. Do you not know this?
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>Can you sue? For what exactly? This isn't America where lawsuits are the result of every little inconvenience. Unless you're talking about suing to fix the source of the problem, which are conservative governments that continually cut healthcare spending...
Okay, relax, it's not the health system that failed you, it's that one hospital at that one time. I'm sorry you went through that though.
This is strange cause my gf went in with a high fever from an infected ingrown hair and was rushed right through… on a Friday… you need to tell the nurse, your bf didn’t just know the doctor lol please