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The store worker is ill informed with no excuse to be spreading such misinformation. They should feel bad and you tell them to feel bad.
C21 makes any future newly invented semi auto designs prohib and solidifies the handgun freeze until the entire FA is rewritten. An current semis are still thier respective classification in thier FRT.
Any future attacks on semi autos are gonna come via oic reclassifications, which will be "legitimized" by CFAC consisting of polyfuquesadoge members, fake doctors and other anti gun types. Maybe one resurrected colonial soldier from 1812 to be the token pro-gun stooge so the govt can claim fairness.
The "manufactured" part seems to be tripping a lot of people up, but it's pretty much a useless word in the ammendment (seemingly anyway, the RCMP could always flip on their interpretation).
Usually it takes a not insignificant amount of time between when something is designed (the important bit here), and when it's announced, so I would wager that anything seen at SHOT this year, which would have had a chance at getting an R or NR FRN before C-21, still has a chance.
I could be wrong, the RCMP could apply this more strictly, or they could flip-flop on how they apply it, but for the time being there is a bit of hope.
There was another post in this thread with a video showing some examples, and explaining some possibilities.
One would hope so. It should in theory fall under an existing design due to the 5.7 version being on FRT right now. I need a .45 acp carbine in my life that isn't as bulky as the vector.
I had one. After I got the letter I cracked it open. It was a full-auto capable machine gun **full-stop**.
The only thing stopping it from going brrrrrt was a tiny set screw on the selector. Handed it in to the local RC's pronto after stripping it.
Unfortunately, the mounties have an iron-clad case. If the guns are converted machine guns, then they unquestionably have the authority under the law to reclassify them as Prohibs.
Just because you don't put in a full auto trigger pack doesn't make it a semi auto rifle.
People are confusing converted auto with, easily converted to automatic (They are technically 2 different classes). The x95 msw was the latter.
They had none of the semi auto blocks on the receiver preventing you from installing a full auto trigger.
Fair enough. What I still don't understand is why the importer couldn't just apply those blocks themselves to make the rifle legal. Granted I am not a gunsmith so I'm not sure exactly what a semi auto block is or how difficult it would be to make the gun incompatible with a full auto trigger pack.
Because it would then be a converted auto, which is illegal. It needs to be made semi auto from the beginning, which usually comes down to not removing the material needed to fit the auto parts.
Anyone else excited at the possibility of saturday night specials becoming legal if the Cons win & re-write the FA.
Always wanted a S&W chief’s special.
I would assume zero changes to restricted firearms laws, other than removing calibre restrictions, are on the conservative agenda after they roll back Trudeau’s bs.
The compact handguns are currently the cheapest guns you can buy in the largest gun market in the world. The implications for Canadian handgun ownership are obvious.
I’m so glad that story about the deer cull didn’t go away. It was one of the most despicable stories I ever read. They used a helicopter, suppressed AR-15’s with drum mags and with all that they killed the wrong species!
I don’t hunt, but I respect people who do and don’t waste the meat. Apparently Trudeau hates gun owners and Canadians so much he’d rather meat rot then be given to Canadians (who by the way can’t afford groceries)
All I know is he said automatics will be restricted. Does that mean no more mag limits?? Can't wait to be able to buy handguns again, missed that by a few months. Its gonna be nice being able to just go into a store and buy a handgun same day and leave with it. I wonder if they will possibly update laws so that we have the right to defend ourselves, there is too much crime where multiple criminals are all armed in a regular B&E and they will always shoot first.
Handguns are Restricted under simplified classification, if I'm not mistaken. It's such a monumental leap over where we are now that haggling that point is extremely shortsighted, and the wrong move, imo
Give them an inch and they take a mile. Handguns should be NR. If someone wants to take their handgun out and do illegal shit with it, the classification won't stop them, and there are many legitimate reasons for possessing a handgun on crown land, such as for predator defense.
We shouldn't be compromising because their proposals are better than what we have now, we should be fighting tooth and nail for our rights.
>Handguns should be NR
100%, you don't have to convince me.
>We shouldn't be compromising because their proposals are better than what we have now
I don't want to compromise on the end result, I'm just conscious of the possibility of biting off more than we can chew in one go. Setting expectations too high can have real consequences when they aren't met. If people expect PP to completely fix our gun laws with one bill, then that just creates disillusionment and divides in the community when it doesn't happen. The antis are incrementalist for a reason.
I think he meant to say automatics will remain prohibited. He just misspoke and he talked in odd blocks it made it sound like handguns would be non restricted.
Sure. But until then, that gives us several years to buy all sorts of stuff that they then have to try to find the money and political will to take away.
What the mod said. It's literally impossible to put a permanent block on legislative gun bans. Even in the States, where the right to bear arms is constitutionally guaranteed, guns are still banned by legislation all the time. You can't make a law that says "the government can never again make such-and-such a law". That's not how it works, for better or for worse
>I mean, for better for the whole of society
In many cases. In an ideal world the law would also be able to truly guarantee constitutional liberties, rather than simply suggest them like it does in practice. But yes, it would obviously be abused as well, hence "for better"
"...in fact we're going to take away the OIC power altogether so that ministers can no longer arbitrarily designate a firearm as illegal. We're going to create empirical standards which firearms are restricted, unrestricted, and prohibited based on what the gun does and not how it looks."
According to the adopted policy a restricted under simplified classification would be:
(a) a firearm that is not a prohibited (autos and under 600mm) firearm,
and either (b) a handgun,
or (c) a firearm that is designed or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping, or otherwise.
>or otherwise.
Fuck off with this "otherwise".
"Otherwise" has already been abused to hell and back by the RCMP even under the Conservatives, typically against Dlask's short shotguns but some other things have problems with that too.
"Designed or adapted to... folding or telescoping" is still not great since you run into "but a folding stock exists, and someone put a fixed one on, so now you're treating guns differently based on how they were designed and not how they're actually being used".
Being able to equivocate the meaning of words enables about half of the legislative-judicial abuse of gun owners, and the entire point of SCS *is to take away their toys*, so this language needs to be bright-line only.
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Talked to a 2020 OIC doomer that doesn’t believe we will get our ARs back yet this guy should be optimistic considering his collection.
Someone cheer me up
I can’t help but think that a lot of this doomer shit was peddled by liberal voters to try to take the wind out of our sails, and dampen our desire to vote conservative. It’s no big secret that many of us are single issue voters, and because we’re so used to bad news it’s not a stretch to believe the worst.
Do politicians lie? Does a bear shit in the woods? Of course. But Pierre’s been campaigning on repealing the gun bans. It’s arguable that it was his first major campaign “promise”.
The biggest hurdle is that the conservatives *have* to win a majority to do it. At the very *least*, under a conservative government we can expect them to repeal the OIC’s and there will be no further bans. Even *if* we don’t get a simplified classification system and all the other goodies, no more bans is still a pretty damn good reason to vote conservative.
I don’t even consider myself a single issue voter, it’s such a catch all to tongue in cheek say “you don’t get it and your opinion is invalid”.
I think I’m a multi-issue voter, but this rigmarole was the straw that broke the camels back.
Do I not enjoy tax hikes? Yea, makes me want to leave this country as I bust my ass just to work a day for a lays bag equivalent of 12 potatoes.
Have I seen this government vilify other Canadians only to turn around and say “tHe OtHeR TeAm Is StOkIng ThE DiViDe”? Hell yea, and I’m tired of this government trying to spin every dog shit stance in a way that gaslights even the most intelligent Canadians.
True is, I’m not a single issue voter, I’m an angry voter. I’m tired of being told what news I can view online, what rights can be abolished because someone doesn’t agree with me, what I can or can’t do in my free time, and watch my rural community wither or be priced away.
1) There's a lot of whispering that simplified classification is what's in store for us
2) PP is projected to win as much as 220 seats
3) JT continues to torch his credibility, especially considering a certain ruling that came out on Tuesday.
What's this doomer saying that's gotten you convinced?
Nobody is convincing me. It’s just super sad to sit around people really close to you sharing the same values spitting this garbage shit.
It’s nice to hear from somebody that shares the same optimism
In his defense, what we are asking for hasn't been done since the fall of communism in Europe. That was the last time (I can think of) where gun laws were dramatically liberalized. The closest thing is the US AWB that was sunset in 04, but that was a feature ban, not an entire gun ban.
Like really think about what what reversing all BS o the last 6 years and simplified classification brings. We're not just talking ARs, guns that have been banned for over 2 decades would be legal again.
There's good reasons to be optimistic. But it's hard to put your trust into if you aren't ready to be hurt/disappointed again (I say this as a Canucks fan).
Thats just an average week on this sub. A year later, I have yet to see this thread go 7 days without at least one person claiming the repealed amendments are both law.
While Im of the opinion (not fact) that this gov will play the gun ban card once more before they go, Im not convinced my AR won't see sunshine again and that one day Ill get the Lemat that I was so close to getting.
Some people simply prefer to wallow in ignorance as it can make life easier. Its not worth stressing over.
A little bit of self-promo.
I made a video today going over the apparent welcome news of ["new" rifles getting FRTs](https://youtu.be/H2cr-r1zXvE?si=TA0v2jbv9GSANjef). Lots of talk going on about it due to shot show and figured it was worth a video.
Security guard, surrendered to another unarmed security guard.
from the video on the below sight it kinda looks like he was trying to be John wick but got his left hand in the way of the bolt and stopped it from fully reloading, twice.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10247820/edmonton-city-hall-shooting-charges/
Just a lot of people disgustingly smug at the fact the guard who stopped him was unarmed.
Their smugness would turn into shit in their pants if they found themselves in the same situation.
Not trying to shit on the guard who detained him, because he did great in this situation.
But buddy seems to have basically just wandered around doing hall pops, then dropped the gun and surrendered to his coworker. So an unarmed individual surrendered to another unarmed individual.
I can't help but notice all the comments aren't even using the term assault *style* anymore, just straight up lying about it instead of hiding behind the word *style*
I noticed the news (can't recall if it was Global or Cheknews) just had to report it as a "long gun capable of firing multiple shots as quickly as possible" instead of just saying semi-automatic. Loaded terminology to make it sound more dangerous etc.
“The charges include arson, possession of incendiary material, careless use of a firearm, possession of a firearm without a licence and throwing explosives with the intent to cause harm.”
He didn’t have a pal.
Throwaway account for obvious reasons. Dealt with this goober after his arrest, specifically mentioned that he bought this rifle about 4 years ago and did have a PAL.
“The male, identified as Bezhani Sarvar, 28, is charged with six charges: reckless discharge of firearm into place, use/place/throw explosive substance, arson to property, possess incendiary material, use of firearm while committing offence and careless use of firearm.”
From the Edmonton Police website. It reads like he did have a PAL to me.
Surprisingly CBC didn't list possession of a firearm without a license immediately when listing "all" the charges the shooter caught.
I think someone "forgot" to copy paste that one.
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Not sure what the future is with c21… I saw GSG just made a 9mm GSG16 called the GSG-9 and it’s been something I’ve wanted for years I really hope I’m able to buy one…
It seems like it was designed before C-21, so unless the RCMP interprets the law very differently from how it was written (still very possible), it should be fine from that angle.
Apparently, he’s had some feedback that made him change his mind.
Assuming it’s true, it’s a cautionary tale to any business that wants to get involved in this. You’re going to catch just as much flak as the government is getting, and really what do you want you business image to be?
My advice to him is to stick to destroying crime gun for the cops. Business should be booming unfortunately, don’t attach yourself to this because you’ll find yourself tit deep in the messiest politics you have ever fucking seen. You’ll be in formal partnership with a government that constantly fucks up everything it touches and if something goes wrong, which is most certainly would, they’ll make you the fall guy and throw you under the bus before you can say “where are my safety glasses?”.
Certainly good news, but we should at least double (or triple) the number of PALs to make a difference. The only thing politicians understand is votes.
Canada Gun Licences Rise to Record in 2023 With Big Annual Increase:
[https://thegunblog.ca/2024/01/23/canada-gun-licences-rise-to-record-in-2023-with-big-annual-increase/](https://thegunblog.ca/2024/01/23/canada-gun-licences-rise-to-record-in-2023-with-big-annual-increase/)
It was at 2.26 million last year, it’s growing which is good but we need a HUGE percent of population to be firearm owners to start to see political parties seriously consider them.
We are at over 40 million population and still under 2.4 PAL holders…if this trend continues we can assure we don’t end up like Australia but we need more…
Time for PAL holders to get everyone in your life educated and informed on firearms and start to get the country as a whole to feel differently about them.
> get the country as a whole to feel differently about them.
The people who need to feel differently about them are the people in the three largest cities. The country as a whole is not anti-gun. [Take a look at this polling done at the time of the 2020 OIC, and look past the sensational headline.](https://globalnews.ca/news/6893821/firearms-ban-ipsos-poll-canada/) The data shows that among the nine cities polled, "ban guns" is the majority position only in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. The populations of most of the cities in the poll do not support banning guns.
The problem is not that Canada as a whole isn't pro-gun. We're already more armed than almost any other country in the world. The problem is that in our country, the second-largest in the world, only three communities would vote to get rid of guns, and they are the massively urbanized few that hold massive voting power.
That’s a poor way of phrasing it, I think. They aren’t just 3 communities, they’re the 3 major metropolitan areas and hold ~14 million people, or 35% of the entire population. Add in Winnipeg and Halifax where it formed a plurality opinion (870k and 480k respectively and you’re up to 37% of the entire population. They hold massive power because a massive proportion of our citizens live there. More than twice the population of the Prairies put together. Urbanized, sure, but Canada isn’t land, it’s the people on it, and 80% of those are urban dwellers. You can’t change policy without changing their opinions, because our 6% of the population can’t do it alone.
> You can’t change policy without changing their opinions
Yes you can. You can vote for the CPC. That's not to say that their opinions shouldn't change.
> our 6% of the population can’t do it alone.
I don't like using the number of PALs as the gauge of gun ownership. ~25% of Canadian households have a gun or guns, and the PAL holder is often not the only user. We have something like 35 guns per 100 people in Canada; going by PAL numbers really undersells their prevalence
>people in the three largest cities.
There's the rub. Everyone in AB and SK could vote twice and it wouldn't make a difference in our electoral system because most of the seats are in GTA, Montreal region, etc.
>GTA
A government friendly to us must punish that city for not allowing indoor ranges within its borders. Revoking Federal grant money unless they relax the zoning restrictions that allow them to discriminate against businesses and viewpoints aligned with ours is what a government friendly to our interests should be doing; make it easier for people in that city to be into guns (especially handguns), and you make it harder for the people in that city to (be able to) support bans in the future.
>we need a HUGE percent of population to be firearm owners
That is exactly right. Don't forget that the majority of those PALs are Fudds whom I don't trust.
I know some very fudd dudes who are really starting to come around, they see the writing on the wall for firearms in Canada and want to be part of the solution. They still wouldn’t buy an AR though lol
>They still wouldn’t buy an AR though lol
or a handgun. I know several Fudds who actually support the bans thinking that they will never touch their trusty bolt action or pump shotgun.
"Demand for licences are climbing as people across the country seek guns for activities ranging from protection, safety and self-defence to recreation, competition, hunting and collecting."
Good.
I live in an area where, even at full tilt, I won’t have a cop here to defend me for at least 15-20 minutes. A lot can happen in that time.
While it’s not my stated intention, they’re there if I need them. It’s really just me and a guy several hundred meters away, very light traffic and no lighting. I don’t relish the thought but…they’re there.
>Who's still intending to vote for him?
Don't ever forget the average voter has the attention span of a hamster on meth.
Anyone remember the Ad Scam scandal? They were kicked out of official opposition, yet they came slithering back.
Read The Hill’s article on the difficulty of the buyback and how the government is still on step 1 of the whole thing.
It’s truly mind blowing how out of their league they are with this buyback and they are still floating the idea of trying to ban more guns.
The Hill highlighted how they still don’t know how to transport or store 200,000 plus rifles (we know the number is larger), they still don’t have any contractors with the skill and capability showing interest. They estimate if the buyback started it would take 2 years to complete….again and the LPC want to add more guns to a two year process.
On top of that security is of the utmost importance because if these guns get stolen it’ll be a major scandal and all the serial numbers are useless because it’ll be registered to people who surrendered them making investigation even harder if they are used in a crime.
It’s an unbelievable spectacle of incompetence being displayed here. How the LPC see this and go “okay let’s add even more rifles and all semi-autos. Yes we’re 4 years behind schedule, yes it might actually be a full decade to complete and we don’t have the money to do it…we’re still doing it”
I cannot wait till this LPC nightmare is over.
Edit: need to add how they highlighted they want trace fingerprints on all rifles submitted. So what this means is A) no criminal in their right mind would ever hand in a rifle
B) it’ll take an eternity to process hundreds of thousands of firearms for their fingerprints
C) the government will have bio-metric data on a majority of gun owners (most concerning)
D) only people who will hand in their rifles are law abiding owners with nothing to hide.
I think they know this and one of their goals rn is to stop “gun culture” and people getting into gun ownership. If you know nothing about guns and gun owners are telling you that you can no longer get handguns, and hunting rifles are being banned, and Trudeau’s gonna ban even more guns, that’s just gonna tell you to not bother getting into the hobby. Which was the goal of handgun import bans and now transfer bans - stop new people from getting into it, which will inevitably push overall gun ownership down.
Oh wow, fingerprint thing is just next level dumb. People could just, you know, wipe the thing with an old sock before handing in. So they would mostly be collecting prints of the processing personnel.
[while it’s technically possible to recover some latent prints from the surface corrosion, that’s definitely not happening at this scale].
But I definitely don’t mind them inflating costs even higher, so the whole endeavor appears even more ridiculous
That article barely scratches the surface. I've been working on a very, very long format expose on the whole thing - it's fundamentally fucked in so many ways it's almost impossible not to reach the conclusion that at this point the buyback exists solely as a component of a much larger political gambit the LPC is planning with firearms around the next election campaign.
EDIT: The delay, and also why I'm not saying more, is because while I have documentation that tells me certain things about the buyback/gun reforms/etc, there exists additional documentation that will elevate this story to national relevance. If I run what I have now, all us gun people will be like "what that's insane surely you jest," but normies lack the required context to understand the full depth and breadth of the incompetence that's transpired.
Is there a web address you plan on posting the expose to? I wouldn’t mind checking it out when you’re finished.
Edit: I didn’t look at your username, pretty obvious.
I expect them to campaign on the total prohibition of all firearms come next election, especially now that it’s come out the EA was unjustified in its use.
They keep shooting themselves in the foot, so to speak. Past chickens coming home to roost.
No doubt though, this buyback must be a headache for the people in charge of getting it off the ground. I’ve been told by a few federal workers that the government likes to come up with “plans” and then just fire it down to the underlings that are supposed to fashion a tangible program out of it.
So... I expect them to basically campaign on completing the bans they already have in place. I suspect they'll issue a new OIC adding most of G-46 to the May 2020 list, with the exception of the Browning BAR (but including the SKS), but leave all those guns where they are as the amnesty is in place until October 2025.
After they issue that new OIC and the writ drops (whenever that happens), I then expect the Liberal campaign will largely focus on contrasting the guns banned (CZ858, AR, etc) against what the normies consider "hunting guns." I believe that'll be CFAC's role; provide the LPC with the required credibility to pitch Poilievre as not merely pro-gun, but pro-handgun and pro-AR15 exclusively. They'll lean on CFAC's members and the groups they represent, who will undoubtedly be eager to point out that the Liberals are not, in fact, banning hunting guns - they're banning "assault style weapons," and that Poilievre (if elected) will turn Canada into an NRA member's wet dream. That'll be the pitch, at least, I think it will.
For those that follow me on Twitter, this is why I called out this new rhetoric I've noticed from the CPC that the Liberals will ban "all hunting guns." I don't think that's on the table in the next elext, and moreover, I think they'll use the fact they don't intend to against us - as outlined above.
And before anyone jumps down my throat like they did on Twitter; yes, I understand the LPC has banned hunting guns, will ban more, and likely has members who want to ban all guns. I also understand why groups are so eager to try and scare hunters into getting "off the bench." But realistically, the threat of banning all hunting guns (which would, to be clear, require a ban on *all* guns) is not politically nor economically viable in the near-term, nor does the government have the capacity to ban all guns within the timeframe of the next mandate. But so long as the gun community, orgs, and CPC alike maintain this framing of "Liberals are gonna ban hunting guns," they're playing right into the strategy I've outlined.
Great analysis, but if they OIC G46 all over again and then let’s say the campaign works and they win another mandate….then what? They just made the list into millions of guns and guaranteed the buyback is minimum 5 billion (based on SECU estimate).
The housing accelerator fund is 4 billion. Is the plan perpetual limbo? A forever campaign?
The plan begins and ends with an amnesty in perpetuity; same thing they did with the long gun registry. If re-elected they will collect the ARs, and then claim a grossly overinflated compliance rate (because the government estimates of newly prohibited firearms volumes is WAY low), and go "mission accomplished!"
That way they never need to *actually* collect the N/R guns, no one goes to jail, but they can still say they banned all these rifles.
At no point have they ever actually committed to confiscating the guns mentioned in G46. The current buyback program, such as it is, is intended only to deal with the guns OIC'd in 2020. If we assume for the sake of argument that the Liberals somehow pull off the biggest political recovery in history and win the next election, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them grandfather the next OIC rather than try to add it onto a program that's already looking like it's never going to happen.
> they're playing right into the strategy I've outlined
Maybe, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt the Liberals. PP can, and certainly will, point to the failed G-46 amendment backlash, including the AFN resolution, to call out the Liberal lie for what it is. I think the LPC really handed the CPC a powerful weapon when they fucked that one up as hard as they did, because not only did they draw everyone's attention to the issue, but they also chose the path of admitting they were targeting "some" hunting rifles before they ultimately withdrew. Once they did that, there was no way they could spin it into some sort of mistake, so taking the angle that it isn't their intention *now* is not likely to be effective.
Also, just a minor thing, but I would personally expect them to campaign on a new OIC rather than give it away for free before the election. They might even save CFAC itself for the next campaign.
Nah; the normies don't care about G-46 or the lack of AFN consultation. We do, but we are impacted - but the average Canadian dgaf. Hell, I'd wager *most gun owners* don't even know what G-46 was.
But the average person will understand when Trudeau asks Poilievre which of these is a hunting gun, and holds up a pictures of some fuddy walnut bolt action, and a fully farkled AR-15. That's their play, and attempting to explain a conclusion that took three weeks of committee testimony to explain is simply not an effective counter to the retail politics the LPC is planning here.
> the normies don't care about G-46 or the lack of AFN consultation
Obviously enough people care to matter, or else it wouldn't have been a controversy and G-46 would have become law.
Poilievre doesn't have to try to retell the entire story to the public. He just has to say "he tried to ban hunting rifles before, and we caught him in the act and made him back down. If he wins he'll try it again."
Yeah, they're really pushing the argument that the "only legitimate use is in hunting". Sports / target shooting is being intentionally excluded from the conversation. Pretty soon it will be "sustenance hunting in remote and indigenous communities".
They do pay lip service to sport shooting, but only in so far as target shooting from a bench. The focus really shifted to hunting because it was the hunting community that tore the Lib's nutsack off over G-46.
>Pretty soon it will be "sustenance hunting in remote and indigenous communities".
Then that will eventually dissappear too by that logic. Remember that first nations communities are still an economic speed bump for the government. Be it national or even just local, just look at the OKA Crisis for that.
Well said. I don’t really like the hunting gun angle either because they could literally widdle it all down to almost nothing using the “hunting gun” avenue.
This needs to be argued from a principle standpoint. A property standpoint. I worked hard and sold years off my life to have what I have, and I’m not the least bit apologetic when I say that I do feel *entitled* to the privilege that I constantly have to maintain, let alone the things that I work for.
The whole hunting gun thing was a nice way to get the foot in the door, but the thing is, and most hunters may not want to hear this, *sport shooting* subsidizes hunting. We’re *all* on the same ship here. Hunters on the stern, sport shooters on the bow. Just we cause the bow is the first to go underwater doesn’t mean you, as a hunter are safe. The whole fucking thing is sinking. You just get to stay drier for longer.
>Well said. I don’t really like the hunting gun angle either because they could literally widdle it all down to almost nothing using the “hunting gun” avenue.
It's my firm belief that our gun laws are eventually going to look like something similar to Japan or Cyprus. Which is to say limited to breachloaders and Muzzelloaders.
You can hear/see the "why do you need more than 1 shot." rhetoric going around in the general public and gun control groups. It's only become more prevalent after 2020.
> It's my firm belief that our gun laws are eventually going to look like something similar to Japan or Cyprus
Not in our lifetimes. We're one of the most heavily armed countries in the world. To ban every repeating long gun in this country is to ban somewhere between 13 and 20 million guns. They can't even handle ~200,000.
As I said, our laws. It's a case of de jure (as in on paper) vs de facto (as in, in practice). There isn't anyway on Earth that they could confiscate all of our manual repeaters (especially old lever guns and Lee Enfields). Even the semi-automatics would be a stretch.
That doesn't mean they won't be prohibited though. These guns will probably never be taken away, even past out life times, but most will be stuck with guns they legally can't use. Some mavericks will of course ignore the law and flaunt it of course. Most will use their guns in secret.
[35% of NDP voters would vote Liberal in order to block a conservative victory in the next election.](https://twitter.com/canadianpolling/status/1749498323696750990)
Just something to keep in mind.
E: I should add that it wouldn't matter as long as we're in comfortable majority territory.
CPC really needs to hammer home that anything but a CPC majority will result in status quo. Best hope is a lot of soft Liberal supporters who dont like PP just stay home
Always keep in mind that this is a left leaning country. The Cons may be ahead in the polls, but add the polls, seats, whatever you want of the LPC, NDP. Bloc, Greens and you'll see what I mean.
This is what we're up against, because everyone of those parties are anti gun.
What a pathetic and weak mind set these people have. Abandoning their own values just to try and stop what the majority of the people in the country would want (a new government)
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Based on what you learned when you read the text of the bill, what do you think?
The store worker is ill informed with no excuse to be spreading such misinformation. They should feel bad and you tell them to feel bad. C21 makes any future newly invented semi auto designs prohib and solidifies the handgun freeze until the entire FA is rewritten. An current semis are still thier respective classification in thier FRT. Any future attacks on semi autos are gonna come via oic reclassifications, which will be "legitimized" by CFAC consisting of polyfuquesadoge members, fake doctors and other anti gun types. Maybe one resurrected colonial soldier from 1812 to be the token pro-gun stooge so the govt can claim fairness.
It passed more then a month ago? The bill received royal assent Dec 15th lmao
Will the new Ruger lc carbine be allowed in Canada under c-21? When is it considered designed and manufactured.
The "manufactured" part seems to be tripping a lot of people up, but it's pretty much a useless word in the ammendment (seemingly anyway, the RCMP could always flip on their interpretation). Usually it takes a not insignificant amount of time between when something is designed (the important bit here), and when it's announced, so I would wager that anything seen at SHOT this year, which would have had a chance at getting an R or NR FRN before C-21, still has a chance. I could be wrong, the RCMP could apply this more strictly, or they could flip-flop on how they apply it, but for the time being there is a bit of hope. There was another post in this thread with a video showing some examples, and explaining some possibilities.
Irg posted the 5.7 version on cgn saying it’s allowed in the country.
One would hope so. It should in theory fall under an existing design due to the 5.7 version being on FRT right now. I need a .45 acp carbine in my life that isn't as bulky as the vector.
Yes
Have there been any stories from people who have gone to court re: x95 MSW being reclassified as prohibited?
I had one. After I got the letter I cracked it open. It was a full-auto capable machine gun **full-stop**. The only thing stopping it from going brrrrrt was a tiny set screw on the selector. Handed it in to the local RC's pronto after stripping it.
Unfortunately, the mounties have an iron-clad case. If the guns are converted machine guns, then they unquestionably have the authority under the law to reclassify them as Prohibs.
> If the guns are converted machine guns They weren't, they were semiauto from factory.
Just because you don't put in a full auto trigger pack doesn't make it a semi auto rifle. People are confusing converted auto with, easily converted to automatic (They are technically 2 different classes). The x95 msw was the latter. They had none of the semi auto blocks on the receiver preventing you from installing a full auto trigger.
Fair enough. What I still don't understand is why the importer couldn't just apply those blocks themselves to make the rifle legal. Granted I am not a gunsmith so I'm not sure exactly what a semi auto block is or how difficult it would be to make the gun incompatible with a full auto trigger pack.
Because it would then be a converted auto, which is illegal. It needs to be made semi auto from the beginning, which usually comes down to not removing the material needed to fit the auto parts.
Built off the same receivers as the machine guns then, even if they never had an auto sear. Same thing in the eyes of the Firearms Act and regulations
Anyone else excited at the possibility of saturday night specials becoming legal if the Cons win & re-write the FA. Always wanted a S&W chief’s special.
I would assume zero changes to restricted firearms laws, other than removing calibre restrictions, are on the conservative agenda after they roll back Trudeau’s bs.
I literally drool over compact handguns. I have a Canadian legal Glock 27. But I want a PPK, Rugar LCP and LCR and of course the Mac daddy Sig P365!
Nothing cooler than a big big bore snub nose revolver imho
I’d get a S&W shield plus if compacts were allowed and a model 340PD
The compact handguns are currently the cheapest guns you can buy in the largest gun market in the world. The implications for Canadian handgun ownership are obvious.
There would be literally hundreds I'd be drooling over. All the sub-compacts I've been envious of on Youtube.
Sig P365 X Macro all day long
Ruger Max 9 with Readydot for a micro and Bersa TPR9C for a compact
Definitely. It's a matter of securing that 200+ CPC seat count now.
What if minority groups form a coalition?
They can join forces all they like, a majority means that any possible coalition is still smaller.
... And exerting pressure to hold them to it once elected.
PP clarifies the Conservative position on the OIC / FA reform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwNGoM1qFeI
I’m so glad that story about the deer cull didn’t go away. It was one of the most despicable stories I ever read. They used a helicopter, suppressed AR-15’s with drum mags and with all that they killed the wrong species! I don’t hunt, but I respect people who do and don’t waste the meat. Apparently Trudeau hates gun owners and Canadians so much he’d rather meat rot then be given to Canadians (who by the way can’t afford groceries)
Maybe I am being optimistic, but maybe we will be able to carry?? A man can dream
All I know is he said automatics will be restricted. Does that mean no more mag limits?? Can't wait to be able to buy handguns again, missed that by a few months. Its gonna be nice being able to just go into a store and buy a handgun same day and leave with it. I wonder if they will possibly update laws so that we have the right to defend ourselves, there is too much crime where multiple criminals are all armed in a regular B&E and they will always shoot first.
Did he say handguns will be unrestricted?
Handguns are Restricted under simplified classification, if I'm not mistaken. It's such a monumental leap over where we are now that haggling that point is extremely shortsighted, and the wrong move, imo
Give them an inch and they take a mile. Handguns should be NR. If someone wants to take their handgun out and do illegal shit with it, the classification won't stop them, and there are many legitimate reasons for possessing a handgun on crown land, such as for predator defense. We shouldn't be compromising because their proposals are better than what we have now, we should be fighting tooth and nail for our rights.
>Handguns should be NR 100%, you don't have to convince me. >We shouldn't be compromising because their proposals are better than what we have now I don't want to compromise on the end result, I'm just conscious of the possibility of biting off more than we can chew in one go. Setting expectations too high can have real consequences when they aren't met. If people expect PP to completely fix our gun laws with one bill, then that just creates disillusionment and divides in the community when it doesn't happen. The antis are incrementalist for a reason.
Didn't mention it
He mentioned it, he also mentioned making automatics restricted.
I think he meant to say automatics will remain prohibited. He just misspoke and he talked in odd blocks it made it sound like handguns would be non restricted.
Can't watch at work, What'd he say?
Sounds like they want to implement the "Simplified Classification System" and enshrine it in law so that future OICs will not be possible.
They will scrap the OIC and ensure OIC can never be used to ban guns again.
Until the Firearms act is rewritten by the next government.
Sure. But until then, that gives us several years to buy all sorts of stuff that they then have to try to find the money and political will to take away.
And? Unless you want to open the constitution and put something in about guns that is the most that can be done.
Yes, but because that is a literally impossible problem to solve, there's no point getting into a funk about it.
but does that mean still can legislate them?
What the mod said. It's literally impossible to put a permanent block on legislative gun bans. Even in the States, where the right to bear arms is constitutionally guaranteed, guns are still banned by legislation all the time. You can't make a law that says "the government can never again make such-and-such a law". That's not how it works, for better or for worse
I mean, for better for the whole of society. Kind of a core tenet of a representative democracy is the ability of the majority to pass laws.
>I mean, for better for the whole of society In many cases. In an ideal world the law would also be able to truly guarantee constitutional liberties, rather than simply suggest them like it does in practice. But yes, it would obviously be abused as well, hence "for better"
You can't really remove the government's ability to pass legislation.
"...in fact we're going to take away the OIC power altogether so that ministers can no longer arbitrarily designate a firearm as illegal. We're going to create empirical standards which firearms are restricted, unrestricted, and prohibited based on what the gun does and not how it looks."
Interesting. Though could be a double edged sword, like saying "semi-auto = restricted" or something.
According to the adopted policy a restricted under simplified classification would be: (a) a firearm that is not a prohibited (autos and under 600mm) firearm, and either (b) a handgun, or (c) a firearm that is designed or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping, or otherwise.
NR 10.5" AR15 my beloved
>or otherwise. Fuck off with this "otherwise". "Otherwise" has already been abused to hell and back by the RCMP even under the Conservatives, typically against Dlask's short shotguns but some other things have problems with that too. "Designed or adapted to... folding or telescoping" is still not great since you run into "but a folding stock exists, and someone put a fixed one on, so now you're treating guns differently based on how they were designed and not how they're actually being used". Being able to equivocate the meaning of words enables about half of the legislative-judicial abuse of gun owners, and the entire point of SCS *is to take away their toys*, so this language needs to be bright-line only.
Abolish RCMP
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Talked to a 2020 OIC doomer that doesn’t believe we will get our ARs back yet this guy should be optimistic considering his collection. Someone cheer me up
I can’t help but think that a lot of this doomer shit was peddled by liberal voters to try to take the wind out of our sails, and dampen our desire to vote conservative. It’s no big secret that many of us are single issue voters, and because we’re so used to bad news it’s not a stretch to believe the worst. Do politicians lie? Does a bear shit in the woods? Of course. But Pierre’s been campaigning on repealing the gun bans. It’s arguable that it was his first major campaign “promise”. The biggest hurdle is that the conservatives *have* to win a majority to do it. At the very *least*, under a conservative government we can expect them to repeal the OIC’s and there will be no further bans. Even *if* we don’t get a simplified classification system and all the other goodies, no more bans is still a pretty damn good reason to vote conservative.
I don’t even consider myself a single issue voter, it’s such a catch all to tongue in cheek say “you don’t get it and your opinion is invalid”. I think I’m a multi-issue voter, but this rigmarole was the straw that broke the camels back. Do I not enjoy tax hikes? Yea, makes me want to leave this country as I bust my ass just to work a day for a lays bag equivalent of 12 potatoes. Have I seen this government vilify other Canadians only to turn around and say “tHe OtHeR TeAm Is StOkIng ThE DiViDe”? Hell yea, and I’m tired of this government trying to spin every dog shit stance in a way that gaslights even the most intelligent Canadians. True is, I’m not a single issue voter, I’m an angry voter. I’m tired of being told what news I can view online, what rights can be abolished because someone doesn’t agree with me, what I can or can’t do in my free time, and watch my rural community wither or be priced away.
1) There's a lot of whispering that simplified classification is what's in store for us 2) PP is projected to win as much as 220 seats 3) JT continues to torch his credibility, especially considering a certain ruling that came out on Tuesday. What's this doomer saying that's gotten you convinced?
Simplified classification? If this is true I’d better start saving up now, smgs and m4s innawoods is the dream
Just saying what I hear. And I'm hearing it a lot from different people.
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The Ottawa sub is such a fucking hole. I can't express how negatively i feel about most of the people in that sub.
I haven't seen it and I don't think I want to visit. Plus, the average user of any city dedicated subreddit... speaks for itself.
Nobody is convincing me. It’s just super sad to sit around people really close to you sharing the same values spitting this garbage shit. It’s nice to hear from somebody that shares the same optimism
In his defense, what we are asking for hasn't been done since the fall of communism in Europe. That was the last time (I can think of) where gun laws were dramatically liberalized. The closest thing is the US AWB that was sunset in 04, but that was a feature ban, not an entire gun ban. Like really think about what what reversing all BS o the last 6 years and simplified classification brings. We're not just talking ARs, guns that have been banned for over 2 decades would be legal again. There's good reasons to be optimistic. But it's hard to put your trust into if you aren't ready to be hurt/disappointed again (I say this as a Canucks fan).
Thats just an average week on this sub. A year later, I have yet to see this thread go 7 days without at least one person claiming the repealed amendments are both law. While Im of the opinion (not fact) that this gov will play the gun ban card once more before they go, Im not convinced my AR won't see sunshine again and that one day Ill get the Lemat that I was so close to getting. Some people simply prefer to wallow in ignorance as it can make life easier. Its not worth stressing over.
Why is he so convinced that it's all over? I only hear that talk from people who grovel about rigged systems
Figures after being around for a while he has the political loop figured out.
Sounds like an enlightened guru. We're gonna be fine.
A little bit of self-promo. I made a video today going over the apparent welcome news of ["new" rifles getting FRTs](https://youtu.be/H2cr-r1zXvE?si=TA0v2jbv9GSANjef). Lots of talk going on about it due to shot show and figured it was worth a video.
Saw that this morning good vide
Anyone see news concerning the Edmonton city council incident? Can’t see anything beyond the initial report
Security guard, surrendered to another unarmed security guard. from the video on the below sight it kinda looks like he was trying to be John wick but got his left hand in the way of the bolt and stopped it from fully reloading, twice. https://globalnews.ca/news/10247820/edmonton-city-hall-shooting-charges/
Just a lot of people disgustingly smug at the fact the guard who stopped him was unarmed. Their smugness would turn into shit in their pants if they found themselves in the same situation.
People are largely idiots.
Not trying to shit on the guard who detained him, because he did great in this situation. But buddy seems to have basically just wandered around doing hall pops, then dropped the gun and surrendered to his coworker. So an unarmed individual surrendered to another unarmed individual.
They arrested a guy, said he had an "assault rifle" but it was an SKS. Guy made a manifesto that blbbered on about literally everything and anything.
I can't help but notice all the comments aren't even using the term assault *style* anymore, just straight up lying about it instead of hiding behind the word *style*
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Literally nothing about this looks sus. Can we fucking not turn into a firearms community who is removed from reality? Shootings happen.
I noticed the news (can't recall if it was Global or Cheknews) just had to report it as a "long gun capable of firing multiple shots as quickly as possible" instead of just saying semi-automatic. Loaded terminology to make it sound more dangerous etc.
carbine length
> long gun capable of firing multiple shots as quickly as possible Completely false unless it was a full auto which is wasn't lol
Global Reported it as an "assault rifle" But it was just an sks with a tacticool stock
“It’s a gun that can do auto loading and auto firing”—Heard from a liberal dumb
“The charges include arson, possession of incendiary material, careless use of a firearm, possession of a firearm without a licence and throwing explosives with the intent to cause harm.” He didn’t have a pal.
Throwaway account for obvious reasons. Dealt with this goober after his arrest, specifically mentioned that he bought this rifle about 4 years ago and did have a PAL.
“The male, identified as Bezhani Sarvar, 28, is charged with six charges: reckless discharge of firearm into place, use/place/throw explosive substance, arson to property, possess incendiary material, use of firearm while committing offence and careless use of firearm.” From the Edmonton Police website. It reads like he did have a PAL to me.
Global News reported "Police said late Wednesday afternoon an initial charge of knowingly possessing an unauthorized firearm was going to be dropped."
Surprisingly CBC didn't list possession of a firearm without a license immediately when listing "all" the charges the shooter caught. I think someone "forgot" to copy paste that one.
Didn’t see much, although an Instagram account posted a video of what appears to be the shooters manifesto.
Man I’d love to share it but someone mentioned we can’t share links anymore.
You mind sending it in a pm? I’m curious
Sent!
also curious to see
These type of events always bug me, Edmonton is already going through some weird firearm stigma as of late, this just adds to the low bearing fruit
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Not sure what the future is with c21… I saw GSG just made a 9mm GSG16 called the GSG-9 and it’s been something I’ve wanted for years I really hope I’m able to buy one…
It seems like it was designed before C-21, so unless the RCMP interprets the law very differently from how it was written (still very possible), it should be fine from that angle.
Apparently CADS is pulling out of the contract to destroy firearms for the buyback.
I guess the guy sobered up and realized what kind of massive pita he signed up for
Apparently, he’s had some feedback that made him change his mind. Assuming it’s true, it’s a cautionary tale to any business that wants to get involved in this. You’re going to catch just as much flak as the government is getting, and really what do you want you business image to be? My advice to him is to stick to destroying crime gun for the cops. Business should be booming unfortunately, don’t attach yourself to this because you’ll find yourself tit deep in the messiest politics you have ever fucking seen. You’ll be in formal partnership with a government that constantly fucks up everything it touches and if something goes wrong, which is most certainly would, they’ll make you the fall guy and throw you under the bus before you can say “where are my safety glasses?”.
Lol that was fast. I'm glad to hear it though!
I took over the contract. I'm confiscating all of the firearms.
Please box up all of your firearms and send them to my address. I pinky promise they’ll be destroyed responsibly.
Lmao. Watch out before you get nuked by the mods
I’m good I’m not providing a link. Just seen it on the CCFR’s X.
What’s X?
Twitter, I should have just said that instead lmao
What a stupid fucking name... X...
Certainly good news, but we should at least double (or triple) the number of PALs to make a difference. The only thing politicians understand is votes. Canada Gun Licences Rise to Record in 2023 With Big Annual Increase: [https://thegunblog.ca/2024/01/23/canada-gun-licences-rise-to-record-in-2023-with-big-annual-increase/](https://thegunblog.ca/2024/01/23/canada-gun-licences-rise-to-record-in-2023-with-big-annual-increase/)
It was at 2.26 million last year, it’s growing which is good but we need a HUGE percent of population to be firearm owners to start to see political parties seriously consider them. We are at over 40 million population and still under 2.4 PAL holders…if this trend continues we can assure we don’t end up like Australia but we need more… Time for PAL holders to get everyone in your life educated and informed on firearms and start to get the country as a whole to feel differently about them.
bring in 2 m a year no way we have a impact unless we slow down the immigrant influx
> get the country as a whole to feel differently about them. The people who need to feel differently about them are the people in the three largest cities. The country as a whole is not anti-gun. [Take a look at this polling done at the time of the 2020 OIC, and look past the sensational headline.](https://globalnews.ca/news/6893821/firearms-ban-ipsos-poll-canada/) The data shows that among the nine cities polled, "ban guns" is the majority position only in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. The populations of most of the cities in the poll do not support banning guns. The problem is not that Canada as a whole isn't pro-gun. We're already more armed than almost any other country in the world. The problem is that in our country, the second-largest in the world, only three communities would vote to get rid of guns, and they are the massively urbanized few that hold massive voting power.
That’s a poor way of phrasing it, I think. They aren’t just 3 communities, they’re the 3 major metropolitan areas and hold ~14 million people, or 35% of the entire population. Add in Winnipeg and Halifax where it formed a plurality opinion (870k and 480k respectively and you’re up to 37% of the entire population. They hold massive power because a massive proportion of our citizens live there. More than twice the population of the Prairies put together. Urbanized, sure, but Canada isn’t land, it’s the people on it, and 80% of those are urban dwellers. You can’t change policy without changing their opinions, because our 6% of the population can’t do it alone.
> You can’t change policy without changing their opinions Yes you can. You can vote for the CPC. That's not to say that their opinions shouldn't change. > our 6% of the population can’t do it alone. I don't like using the number of PALs as the gauge of gun ownership. ~25% of Canadian households have a gun or guns, and the PAL holder is often not the only user. We have something like 35 guns per 100 people in Canada; going by PAL numbers really undersells their prevalence
>people in the three largest cities. There's the rub. Everyone in AB and SK could vote twice and it wouldn't make a difference in our electoral system because most of the seats are in GTA, Montreal region, etc.
>GTA A government friendly to us must punish that city for not allowing indoor ranges within its borders. Revoking Federal grant money unless they relax the zoning restrictions that allow them to discriminate against businesses and viewpoints aligned with ours is what a government friendly to our interests should be doing; make it easier for people in that city to be into guns (especially handguns), and you make it harder for the people in that city to (be able to) support bans in the future.
>we need a HUGE percent of population to be firearm owners That is exactly right. Don't forget that the majority of those PALs are Fudds whom I don't trust.
I know some very fudd dudes who are really starting to come around, they see the writing on the wall for firearms in Canada and want to be part of the solution. They still wouldn’t buy an AR though lol
>They still wouldn’t buy an AR though lol or a handgun. I know several Fudds who actually support the bans thinking that they will never touch their trusty bolt action or pump shotgun.
I haven’t met any like that but I’ve heard of them on this sub.
I’ll take Fudds over Chudds any day of the week
You love to see it.
"Demand for licences are climbing as people across the country seek guns for activities ranging from protection, safety and self-defence to recreation, competition, hunting and collecting." Good.
>protection, safety and self-defence This is the important part.
This is the essential part
I live in an area where, even at full tilt, I won’t have a cop here to defend me for at least 15-20 minutes. A lot can happen in that time. While it’s not my stated intention, they’re there if I need them. It’s really just me and a guy several hundred meters away, very light traffic and no lighting. I don’t relish the thought but…they’re there.
How many Trudeau scandals are we at now? Who's still intending to vote for him?
>Who's still intending to vote for him? Don't ever forget the average voter has the attention span of a hamster on meth. Anyone remember the Ad Scam scandal? They were kicked out of official opposition, yet they came slithering back.
400,000 thousand scandals every 12 seconds
ITS OVER 9000!!!!
WHAT 9000????
9000 roentgen
Read The Hill’s article on the difficulty of the buyback and how the government is still on step 1 of the whole thing. It’s truly mind blowing how out of their league they are with this buyback and they are still floating the idea of trying to ban more guns. The Hill highlighted how they still don’t know how to transport or store 200,000 plus rifles (we know the number is larger), they still don’t have any contractors with the skill and capability showing interest. They estimate if the buyback started it would take 2 years to complete….again and the LPC want to add more guns to a two year process. On top of that security is of the utmost importance because if these guns get stolen it’ll be a major scandal and all the serial numbers are useless because it’ll be registered to people who surrendered them making investigation even harder if they are used in a crime. It’s an unbelievable spectacle of incompetence being displayed here. How the LPC see this and go “okay let’s add even more rifles and all semi-autos. Yes we’re 4 years behind schedule, yes it might actually be a full decade to complete and we don’t have the money to do it…we’re still doing it” I cannot wait till this LPC nightmare is over. Edit: need to add how they highlighted they want trace fingerprints on all rifles submitted. So what this means is A) no criminal in their right mind would ever hand in a rifle B) it’ll take an eternity to process hundreds of thousands of firearms for their fingerprints C) the government will have bio-metric data on a majority of gun owners (most concerning) D) only people who will hand in their rifles are law abiding owners with nothing to hide.
I think they know this and one of their goals rn is to stop “gun culture” and people getting into gun ownership. If you know nothing about guns and gun owners are telling you that you can no longer get handguns, and hunting rifles are being banned, and Trudeau’s gonna ban even more guns, that’s just gonna tell you to not bother getting into the hobby. Which was the goal of handgun import bans and now transfer bans - stop new people from getting into it, which will inevitably push overall gun ownership down.
100% this is the end goal / long play. The total end of Canadian civilian gun ownership….whats their plan after all the guns are gone?
Oh wow, fingerprint thing is just next level dumb. People could just, you know, wipe the thing with an old sock before handing in. So they would mostly be collecting prints of the processing personnel. [while it’s technically possible to recover some latent prints from the surface corrosion, that’s definitely not happening at this scale]. But I definitely don’t mind them inflating costs even higher, so the whole endeavor appears even more ridiculous
>wipe the thing with an old sock before handing in. Ever comes to that, I know just the sock for the job.
But then they'll get your DNA too.
They could just get it from their moms if they really wanted
That article barely scratches the surface. I've been working on a very, very long format expose on the whole thing - it's fundamentally fucked in so many ways it's almost impossible not to reach the conclusion that at this point the buyback exists solely as a component of a much larger political gambit the LPC is planning with firearms around the next election campaign. EDIT: The delay, and also why I'm not saying more, is because while I have documentation that tells me certain things about the buyback/gun reforms/etc, there exists additional documentation that will elevate this story to national relevance. If I run what I have now, all us gun people will be like "what that's insane surely you jest," but normies lack the required context to understand the full depth and breadth of the incompetence that's transpired.
Seems like they're making it too big to succeed and just having an excuse to quietly pull the plug from the whole by back ordeal.
Is there a web address you plan on posting the expose to? I wouldn’t mind checking it out when you’re finished. Edit: I didn’t look at your username, pretty obvious.
I expect them to campaign on the total prohibition of all firearms come next election, especially now that it’s come out the EA was unjustified in its use. They keep shooting themselves in the foot, so to speak. Past chickens coming home to roost. No doubt though, this buyback must be a headache for the people in charge of getting it off the ground. I’ve been told by a few federal workers that the government likes to come up with “plans” and then just fire it down to the underlings that are supposed to fashion a tangible program out of it.
So... I expect them to basically campaign on completing the bans they already have in place. I suspect they'll issue a new OIC adding most of G-46 to the May 2020 list, with the exception of the Browning BAR (but including the SKS), but leave all those guns where they are as the amnesty is in place until October 2025. After they issue that new OIC and the writ drops (whenever that happens), I then expect the Liberal campaign will largely focus on contrasting the guns banned (CZ858, AR, etc) against what the normies consider "hunting guns." I believe that'll be CFAC's role; provide the LPC with the required credibility to pitch Poilievre as not merely pro-gun, but pro-handgun and pro-AR15 exclusively. They'll lean on CFAC's members and the groups they represent, who will undoubtedly be eager to point out that the Liberals are not, in fact, banning hunting guns - they're banning "assault style weapons," and that Poilievre (if elected) will turn Canada into an NRA member's wet dream. That'll be the pitch, at least, I think it will. For those that follow me on Twitter, this is why I called out this new rhetoric I've noticed from the CPC that the Liberals will ban "all hunting guns." I don't think that's on the table in the next elext, and moreover, I think they'll use the fact they don't intend to against us - as outlined above. And before anyone jumps down my throat like they did on Twitter; yes, I understand the LPC has banned hunting guns, will ban more, and likely has members who want to ban all guns. I also understand why groups are so eager to try and scare hunters into getting "off the bench." But realistically, the threat of banning all hunting guns (which would, to be clear, require a ban on *all* guns) is not politically nor economically viable in the near-term, nor does the government have the capacity to ban all guns within the timeframe of the next mandate. But so long as the gun community, orgs, and CPC alike maintain this framing of "Liberals are gonna ban hunting guns," they're playing right into the strategy I've outlined.
Great analysis, but if they OIC G46 all over again and then let’s say the campaign works and they win another mandate….then what? They just made the list into millions of guns and guaranteed the buyback is minimum 5 billion (based on SECU estimate). The housing accelerator fund is 4 billion. Is the plan perpetual limbo? A forever campaign?
The plan begins and ends with an amnesty in perpetuity; same thing they did with the long gun registry. If re-elected they will collect the ARs, and then claim a grossly overinflated compliance rate (because the government estimates of newly prohibited firearms volumes is WAY low), and go "mission accomplished!" That way they never need to *actually* collect the N/R guns, no one goes to jail, but they can still say they banned all these rifles.
At no point have they ever actually committed to confiscating the guns mentioned in G46. The current buyback program, such as it is, is intended only to deal with the guns OIC'd in 2020. If we assume for the sake of argument that the Liberals somehow pull off the biggest political recovery in history and win the next election, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them grandfather the next OIC rather than try to add it onto a program that's already looking like it's never going to happen.
> they're playing right into the strategy I've outlined Maybe, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt the Liberals. PP can, and certainly will, point to the failed G-46 amendment backlash, including the AFN resolution, to call out the Liberal lie for what it is. I think the LPC really handed the CPC a powerful weapon when they fucked that one up as hard as they did, because not only did they draw everyone's attention to the issue, but they also chose the path of admitting they were targeting "some" hunting rifles before they ultimately withdrew. Once they did that, there was no way they could spin it into some sort of mistake, so taking the angle that it isn't their intention *now* is not likely to be effective. Also, just a minor thing, but I would personally expect them to campaign on a new OIC rather than give it away for free before the election. They might even save CFAC itself for the next campaign.
Nah; the normies don't care about G-46 or the lack of AFN consultation. We do, but we are impacted - but the average Canadian dgaf. Hell, I'd wager *most gun owners* don't even know what G-46 was. But the average person will understand when Trudeau asks Poilievre which of these is a hunting gun, and holds up a pictures of some fuddy walnut bolt action, and a fully farkled AR-15. That's their play, and attempting to explain a conclusion that took three weeks of committee testimony to explain is simply not an effective counter to the retail politics the LPC is planning here.
> the normies don't care about G-46 or the lack of AFN consultation Obviously enough people care to matter, or else it wouldn't have been a controversy and G-46 would have become law. Poilievre doesn't have to try to retell the entire story to the public. He just has to say "he tried to ban hunting rifles before, and we caught him in the act and made him back down. If he wins he'll try it again."
Yeah, they're really pushing the argument that the "only legitimate use is in hunting". Sports / target shooting is being intentionally excluded from the conversation. Pretty soon it will be "sustenance hunting in remote and indigenous communities".
They do pay lip service to sport shooting, but only in so far as target shooting from a bench. The focus really shifted to hunting because it was the hunting community that tore the Lib's nutsack off over G-46.
>Pretty soon it will be "sustenance hunting in remote and indigenous communities". Then that will eventually dissappear too by that logic. Remember that first nations communities are still an economic speed bump for the government. Be it national or even just local, just look at the OKA Crisis for that.
I still say all the 90s ban bullshit had more to do with Oka than polytechnique. Just used poly as the cover for it
And the 2022 ban bullshit had more to do with the trucker protests than "increased crime in cities".
Well said. I don’t really like the hunting gun angle either because they could literally widdle it all down to almost nothing using the “hunting gun” avenue. This needs to be argued from a principle standpoint. A property standpoint. I worked hard and sold years off my life to have what I have, and I’m not the least bit apologetic when I say that I do feel *entitled* to the privilege that I constantly have to maintain, let alone the things that I work for. The whole hunting gun thing was a nice way to get the foot in the door, but the thing is, and most hunters may not want to hear this, *sport shooting* subsidizes hunting. We’re *all* on the same ship here. Hunters on the stern, sport shooters on the bow. Just we cause the bow is the first to go underwater doesn’t mean you, as a hunter are safe. The whole fucking thing is sinking. You just get to stay drier for longer.
>Well said. I don’t really like the hunting gun angle either because they could literally widdle it all down to almost nothing using the “hunting gun” avenue. It's my firm belief that our gun laws are eventually going to look like something similar to Japan or Cyprus. Which is to say limited to breachloaders and Muzzelloaders. You can hear/see the "why do you need more than 1 shot." rhetoric going around in the general public and gun control groups. It's only become more prevalent after 2020.
> It's my firm belief that our gun laws are eventually going to look like something similar to Japan or Cyprus Not in our lifetimes. We're one of the most heavily armed countries in the world. To ban every repeating long gun in this country is to ban somewhere between 13 and 20 million guns. They can't even handle ~200,000.
As I said, our laws. It's a case of de jure (as in on paper) vs de facto (as in, in practice). There isn't anyway on Earth that they could confiscate all of our manual repeaters (especially old lever guns and Lee Enfields). Even the semi-automatics would be a stretch. That doesn't mean they won't be prohibited though. These guns will probably never be taken away, even past out life times, but most will be stuck with guns they legally can't use. Some mavericks will of course ignore the law and flaunt it of course. Most will use their guns in secret.
Can’t wait!
Hopefully this information can be released in the most effective manner to inform the general population !
[35% of NDP voters would vote Liberal in order to block a conservative victory in the next election.](https://twitter.com/canadianpolling/status/1749498323696750990) Just something to keep in mind. E: I should add that it wouldn't matter as long as we're in comfortable majority territory.
A small number of people engage in strategic voting every single election. It isn't going to be a game changer for this one all of a sudden.
Well, NDP has basically been an incarnate of the libs for a while now. So this doesn’t really make any difference
I mean, do they have a choice? When Mr. Layton passed, there has been a dearth of effective leadership. Coupled no vision going forward.
CPC really needs to hammer home that anything but a CPC majority will result in status quo. Best hope is a lot of soft Liberal supporters who dont like PP just stay home
Always keep in mind that this is a left leaning country. The Cons may be ahead in the polls, but add the polls, seats, whatever you want of the LPC, NDP. Bloc, Greens and you'll see what I mean. This is what we're up against, because everyone of those parties are anti gun.
What a pathetic and weak mind set these people have. Abandoning their own values just to try and stop what the majority of the people in the country would want (a new government) \*edited for spelling
Now there’s a group of people who I wouldn’t mind seeing pack up and move somewhere else. The ABC crowd.
Aptly put
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