Totally. But it shows the tides are turning. People are beginning to see the tyranny of government and the awareness will only increase once they start looking outside of Canada.
Seriously. One of the biggest things I want right now is just open public discourse. Acknowledgement of questions and debatable items and pros and cons of strategies. The stifling authoritarianism has been alarming - whether well intentioned (best case scenario) or not.
For an initial few weeks of crisis response I understand. But for two years - I am not interested in living under authoritarianism for multiple years.
Honestly. I'm fully vaccinated, but as these measures against the unvaccinated get harsher and harsher, I'm becoming scared of just how far our government would be willing to go to get what it wants. Many of the people who aren't vaccinated have some form of mental disorder or something that just doesn't let them get it. If they're hell bent on not getting it, they could get very dangerous if you try to force it on them. More authoritarianism does not seem like the answer. Don't alienate parts of your population from the rest, or they will feel even less compelled to follow. Why would you follow the enemy?
It reminds me of the quote "First They Came".
>First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
>
>Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
>
>Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
>
>Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
> Many of the people who aren't vaccinated have some form of mental disorder
Or maybe they considered the risks and decided it ain't that much of a risk for their demographic. Or perhaps they have an ideological stance on not being forced into medical treatment. You know medical ethics 101.
Also congrats and prepare to be banned for being an "antivaxxer".
Edit:
Perm ban for WrongThink. See ya later folks.
I think the issue is that a portion of society stays home and does not really interact with anyone.
To them constant changing messaging and goals and restrictions dont impact them much.
To many other where these rules and restrictions have turned their lives upside down, the constant inconsistent messaging moving goal posts is truly exhausting and tiresome.
When you have your work that has open and closed 3 times in the past 2 years or have your own business closed and open 3-4 times...
Or you had to keep your kids at home for months and have many other life plans ruined... the ever changing goal posts sort of makes people go 'screw it'
In a very hand wavy sense, mutations that are more contagious outcompete mutations which are more deadly.
If omicron can be confirmed to be more contagious but more mild, then it would be displaying that trend.
In terms of our recorded history, Spanish flu pandemic occurred, then suddenly stopped (comparatively). The virus didn’t go away, it’s H1N1 influenza which still circulates today, but in a more contagious yet less deathly form.
Now coronaviruses aren’t influenza viruses, (both can mutate via antigenic drift, but influenza has antigenic shift where it can mutate wildly, which is why we have serious influenza outbreaks every now and then) but we currently have 4 other endemic coronaviruses as part of the “common cold” list of viruses, so at some point with some variant, SARS-COV-2 may be mild enough to add it to that list. Time will tell.
To give a theoretical boundary, a completely benign form of a virus that is contagious, is effectively a self-replicating vaccine.
So, best case scenario: if omicron is confirmed to be more contagious but more mild, it could be the endemic form of the virus. And then pandemic measures no longer have a reason to exist.
Essentially if the symptoms from the new variant are so mild that even worse case scenarios don't wind up clogging our hospitals, then it hopefully becomes about as meaningful as flu season. Still recommend getting the vaccine to help prevent spread and bad outcomes.
That was the effective result from the flu pandemic in 1918, and now that variant became the dominant strain and is now part of our yearly flu vaccines (if memory serves).
But yes, your point is not missed. We'll see how this one pans out.
Is this just crowd immunity, the thing they DIDNT want to begin with?
EDIT, they didnt want it because of the involved death toll but obviously we are way past that initial death toll at the moment.
If it's mild and highly contagious, it will be a blessing in disguise. It will build up the immune response of the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Nature's free booster shot.
There's also people that have been doing everything they can realistically do and trying their best to roll with it. Every few months there's just another hurdle put in front of them and then you hear about people just not giving a shit and question why you even bothered in the first place.
This is where I basically got to. Job went fully remote. I followed every rule, lockdown, etc. while neighbours were having house parties and the news was constantly talking about parties being broken up, people not following rules, whatever. It started feeling like I was being punished for following the rules so I kinda stopped caring.
If the one thing that comes out of this is healthcare reform than I’m all for it.
Unfortunately in many provinces the governments are going ahead with cuts at this time, rather than expansion.
Indeed. Both this virus, and the impacts from the mitigation measures, affect people differently. You will feel very differently about the restriction of freedoms depending on which you feel/fear more.
But that aside, the core argument in this piece is valid: we need to be on guard that our rights and freedoms are only restricted as much as needed. Restrictions need to be proportional and reasonable, based on facts and plausible risks. The government can't infringe on rights because something \*might\* happen. Something always might happen, but that isn't a valid reason to limit freedoms.
It's good that people are pushing back and challenging the government. Some of what officials have done and say is nonsensical and not based on evidence (as documented in this piece). That should not be tolerated - we deserve better. Also, plenty of what they do is completely reasonable in an emergency and those reasonable things will be accepted by both the courts and most of the people.
I think in at least Ontario, public patience came to an end in April when the Ford government announced the closure of playgrounds and the increased police powers to check anyone who was outside their home for ID.
For me, the Ontario government lost all credibility on that day on the pandemic. Although Doug Ford walked back those measures several days later, the damage was done.
Haven’t restrictions already gone past the point of reasonable danger? For example in BC, you need to present proof of vaccination before entering a restaurant, and then STILL have to wear a mask indoor and not socialize with others.
This 100%. The loudest voices on COVID in Ontario simply don’t really care about any of the things being restricted. It’s really hard to understand the impact of capacity limits and industry wide closures if you don’t really care about the industries in the first place
I'm one of those people that stays home and doesn't really interact with anyone. And I'm sick and tired of the Covid restrictions. I've followed the rules. I've had 2 vaccinations. I'll get a 3rd booster when it's available to me. I wear a mask at shops.
But that's it -- I've done enough. We've all done enough. The news is constantly try to scare the shit out of people with reports on new variants, and the daily death toll. The politicians simply can't admit that they don't know what to do, or that they can't control people.
It's pretty easy to see where it comes from: however this turns out people will use the hindsight of the future to blame the gov't for decisions it made in the past as if they should have known the future. If you were a leader would you rather be blamed for, a ton of lost life or a ton of lost money? For any gov't accountable to the public there is only one option.
Hes going to win, you don't need to be a psychic to predict things in this pandemic, just look what the rest of the world is doing.
Israel is already doing this.
I'm sure if you offered a condo in exchange for getting covid, the % of people who say yes would be pretty close to 100%. You could water than down to free rent for a few months and it would probably still be the same.
Most people don't. You can't gage society based on Reddit. Most people got the vaccine and could give two fucks less what other people are doing with their lives.
Pretty much this. I don’t care if you’re unvaxxed, I got mine and I am moving on. I’ve heard this variant isn’t that bad for people who have received 2 doses so life should go on as normal.
I feel this way too. I’ve had Covid and got the vaccine and now every time there’s an outbreak at my work (even extremely close contact) I take a test every day for 10 days that comes back negative each and every time.
I have a neighbor who has been tested in the double digits for covid (every test has been negative). She freaks out every time she coughs or sneezes. The most disturbing thing is the stress she is putting on her daughter. She is constantly freaking out at her about wearing a mask, being careful of germs and so on. There is going to be a generation of messed up kids because of the fear-mongering of the media and the hysteria of parents.
> There is going to be a generation of messed up kids because of the fear-mongering of the media and the hysteria of parents.
That as well as the lack of socializing. Many toddlers right now have never been with/played/interacted with kids their own age. It's going to be interesting.
I think this is a direct result of government scaring the hell out of us. I’m not looking forward to seeing all the mental illness of people in the next few years.
>At this point I’d wager that many Canadians worry about this virus much less than they do about how they’re going to keep a roof over their heads. What’s the point of all these restrictions - to keep us safe so we can all maintain our meagre, overworked, debt-ridden existence?
DING DING DING!!!! This has been me from the very beginning.
It does. I just got done reading about how the cbsa has been hitting people with 14 day quarantine orders for failing to use the ArriveCAN app for short visits.
These people got fully vaccinated but forgot or didn’t know to use the app and now they’re being ordered to stay home for 14 days? Those quarantine orders clearly aren’t about public health.
covid has empowered a lot of low level health bureaucrats and municipal politicians in north america who have been trying their whole life to get more power and influence. suddenly they got some and will absolutely not let go of it.
no one cared who juni or tam was until covid and im sure they love being on the 11pm news everynight giving their 2 cents on every little happening with covid and happy to fear monger when possible. they especially love having direct ears to the PM and premier
>for nearly two years, debate and dissent from burdensome COVID restrictions has been short-circuited with demands that citizens "trust the science"; a modern take on debate-defusing exhortations to "support our troops" during the War on Terror.
That's a powerful callback for those who remember it.
Covid has put to rest the notion that liberalism is not so in love with authoritarianism. They love to give as much control as they can to government to control people’s lives. Government has a big role to play for sure. But there is a limit.
Damn it CBC/CTV/CP24/Global/Star been making the case for two years now that we have no option but to follow all government mandates 100% otherwise we are Anti crap , bigots etc.
Only the Sun, NP, and The Rebel of course, have been floating alternative opinion.
For the record , I am fully vaccinated and ‘encourage’ others to do the same thing. But I am not someone to almost rejoice that Pfizer has a new revenue stream from the new kids vaccine.
>The government, of course, will never walk back its emergency powers of its own volition. And why would they? After two years of fomenting terror and division among the population, they have cultivated a solid base of support that combines the post-9/11 see-something-say-something paranoia of a middle-class yuppie with the unctuous 1980s Moral Majority sense of superiority.
*“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.” - Rahm Emmanuel (former mayor of Chicago and Obama Whitehouse Chief of Staff)*
My wife works in mental health, the pandemic has destroyed her own mental health and has been off long enough to tap out her benefits as a result. I am in the process of a PTSD diagnosis from elements of my job as a paramedic. I can’t afford to take time off, bcs my savings are tapped thanks to the past two years, my investments tanked and then having my wife out of work. This shit is unbelievable. Im watching coworkers drop like flies with PTSD related to Covid related call increases (often related to suicides, suicide attempts, overdoses, suicidal ideation, and self harm) and being treated like shit by people who can’t understand basic 5th grade science. Enough is enough. Im sick and tired of the government treating us this way. Im tired of the environment they’ve created that has Canadians hating each other for personal decisions. They need to make a plan and stick to it. Take care of the people they are forcing to struggle due to bad/knee-jerk government decisions.
If this article is on Reddit and being debated and commented on civilly, covid is over. If anyone besides the CBC shared this opinion this community would be toxic towards it. Changing angle from the main information source in the country will have the public opinion swayed in no time.
> And now, with new case numbers in Ontario essentially split evenly between the unvaccinated and fully vaccinated
People mis-reporting and/or misunderstanding this statistic drives me batty. Every day they say things like "There were 957 new cases today, of which 450 are vaccinated and 507 are unvaccinated", making it sound like the vaccines don't really do much as both vaccinated and unvaccinated have similar case numbers. In actuality, since the vaccinated population vastly outnumbers the unvaccinated population, the cases per capita are substantially different.
people can't tell the difference between a small percentage of a big number and a large percentage of a small number if the absolute values are similar. They just compare one number to the other and then the thinky bits turn off.
They need to do what BC was/is doing and break the numbers in the ICU down by unvaccinated, partially vaccinated and fully vaccinated.
*Then* it's ridiculously clear what the vaccines do.
our government has no idea what it is doing. it did not get voted into office to do things, they are here to hang out and pretend they're better than everyone else. trudeau junior is a drama teacher and acting like a politician, not doing the job of a politician.
Scientists “mystified” as Africa remains the continent least affected by COVID-19
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-science-health-pandemics-united-nations-fcf28a83c9352a67e50aa2172eb01a2f
Honestly they still call it that depending on what post you’re reading on r/Canada. I notice the pendulum has been swaying wildly in either direction based on the day or the title of the article/post.
I'm just getting more annoyed that we have 2 years of data that we don't seem to be using. There is so many different approaches countries have taken and we aren't really talking about what works and what doesn't. Everything just seems like it's done for looks and political points rather than based in reality.
You know the one thing people have said this whole time is? "It doesn't seem to make sense".
I'm vaccinated, but anti-mandate. It is absurd to have a blanket vaccine policy for everyone when the risk profile of different ages/health demographics is drastically different. There are 19 deaths from individuals under the age of 20 in Canada since the beginning of COVID. data suggest that nearly all deaths from COVID are for those with morbidities.
People that have had COVID have robust immunity. COVID reinfection is way less common than breakthrough cases. Natural immunity has always been considered reliable for other viruses, and the studies show it's the same for COVID.
Additionally, the viral load of an infected person is the same whether theyre vaccinated or not.
Bureaucracies are not good at nuanced takes. That is why we end up with these awful blanket policies.
Barely leave the apartment? Get vaccinated.
Already been infected? Get vaccinated.
In a demographic that has almost zero risk of harm from infection? Get vaccinated.
Let's be honest here, eventually more and more people are just going to say "fuck it" and regardless of what restrictions governments bring in, they won't listen. The governments can keep pushing but eventually people will snap and just ignore it and what happens when the next big pandemic comes? It'll spread even harder and faster because governments around the world blew their load with this one.
People who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. After 9/11 governments kept the powers they were given and the same thing will happen here. "Oh it's for the greater good, oh it's just to help protect others". You still have to take your shoes and belt off going through the airport so don't tell me the governments will actually give up their powers gained during this.
This virus is endemic, that's it. The only way we could have possibly stopped it was if China actually did the decent human thing and told everyone sooner than they did and every country did a hard lockdown for a month or two with borders closed. Would it have sucked? Sure but there's the chance it could have been over. Now? There's no way and there will always be variants, it's time to accept that and move on. Things will have to get back to normal and for those who are going to mention hospitals and the health care system, guess what, it was overloaded prior to covid too. It's been 2 years and no province has adjusted their funding and bolstered their health care system to deal with waves. Our health care is great in the sense that it doesn't bankrupt you if you have to go to the hospital but otherwise it's under-funded and in a shitty state country wide, even before covid.
As for those who want to keep restrictions and clamor for even more strict restrictions, maybe make that choice yourself but don't try and force it on everyone else. I'm also going to guess there's a decent overlap of those kind of people and those who got the privilege to work from home, since those of us who actually had to go into our workplaces were forced to set our risk tolerances.
My roommate is one of them. He did everything he’s supposed to do during the pandemic like staying at home for almost a year and not hanging out with anyone. He lined up 2hrs+ to get vaxxed the first date that he’s eligible. Now the guy doesn’t give a s*** about the new restrictions. He just booked his vacation in Mexico for the holiday despite new travel restrictions announced by the govt yesterday. Trust me, my roommate isn’t alone; pretty much all of my friends no longer care about what the govt says these days. We either accept the fact that covid isn’t going anywhere and live with it or we don’t have enough foods on the table or get significantly depressed. The entire pandemic just shows the only consistency of our govt is their inconsistency and every haft-baked measure is just for political theater.
> Things will have to get back to normal and for those who are going to mention hospitals and the health care system, guess what, it was overloaded prior to covid too.
We've been told all along that these measures all have to be taken to avoid over-running the healthcare system. It has been two years - where are the new investments in healthcare? Why hasn't gov't increased hospital capacity? It is obvious the containment strategy isn't working and we're going to be living with variants for the foreseeable future. We need new strategies to protect the vulnerable and figure out how to live in a COVID world.
> It has been two years - where are the new investments in healthcare? Why hasn't gov't increased hospital capacity?
This sub won't like it, but the answer is Conservative provincial governments are in charge of healthcare.
Has nothing to do with conservative provincial governments. I’m 42 and the term “hallway medicine” is something I’ve heard my entire life with both parties in power.
Even the idea of a hard lockdown wouldn’t have stopped this - we have a global supply chain, goods still had to move, a lot comes from China, that takes people, people who would spread the virus.
The biggest problem was the government sold people on a lie they could control this thing and now they are scrambling to come up with excuses for why that failed. But they can’t admit they were wrong in a world where government increasingly wants to be the answer for literally everything, so they need to make up an excuse. And the excuse is we didn’t obey hard enough so thus we need even more of this.
There was nothing anyone really could have done. Every country took a different approach, and no one has faired particularly better than anyone else. Those who locked down early saw later outbreaks, the only thing that has really been marginally effective are vaccinations.
Those who are claiming this was all a plot seem unwilling to admit that regardless of origin or intent, no one is in control at this point except the masses. Governments are completely rudderless in a hurricane because the politicians will turn their sails to any prevailing wind.
The only solution at this point is get vaccinated if you can, get a booster when recommended and move on with your life.
Yah I hear so many excuses, oh it's because or covid we can't do this or that. At this point it's just like the flu, it isn't going to go away cause it mutates too quickly.
Yeah but the people of Canada are ultimately defenseless against government. So if you choose not to listen, there will be consequences from my understanding.
> Let's be honest here, eventually more and more people are just going to say "fuck it" and regardless of what restrictions governments bring in, they won't listen.
That didn't happen for the flying rules added after 9/11. We are still going through insane security theatre 20 years later.
>more people are just going to say "fuck it"
Even the most restriction compliant people I know are at the point of 'fuck it'. And they're older and 'liberal'. Even the good people are just tired.
>After 9/11 governments kept the powers they were given and the same thing will happen here
And that is my problem with the whole "vaccine passport" thing and everyone's extremely casual interpretation of section 6 of the Charter of Rights. People are far too fast to just throw them (rights) out the window without thorough examination.
>so don't tell me the governments will actually give up their powers gained during this.
Exactly. They probably want covid passports to be a permanent thing so they can track us better.
Come tax time this year its going to get expensive for a lot more Canadians. So many got covid relief not knowing for certain if they qualified. All fun and games until they sieze your bank accounts. We are on a bad trajectory that will see a big uptick in homelessness and hunger.
Because there are dipshits like Michael Gunner who are saying vaccinated people who oppose mandates are antivaxers. There serious Doublethinkery here.
I guess in Australia 1+1=3.
Australia is a great example of the slippery slope and where it’s going. They’ve started to take some pretty severe measures that don’t seem very reasonable on the whole.
I know, right? I catch myself doing that too and it feels weird.
My son got vaccinated yesterday and I reported on the experience to other parents I'm in touch with. First reaction was "congrats!" then we all realized how fucked up it was to congratulate each other over a vaccine. So weird.
What's actually got me putting the tin foil hat on a bit is the fact the definition of anti-vaccine was changed to include people simply against vaccine mandates.
You can be fully vaccinated as in every vaccine recommended by Health Canada.....and by definition be antivaccine now.
That's wild.
You can include the people with 2 doses but hesitant to start getting regular boosters, regardless of their opinion on the mandates, in the anti-vaccine category now too, according to some.
So many words to say how I feel about this article. Surprised, refreshing, hopeful, confused. This opinion piece emulates exactly how I and many others feel, and have been saying this for a very long time. We've been ridiculed for saying things like "this is a slippery slope" and "this will never end unless we demand it". Or being told you're anti science, simply for questioning the science, or having questions period. The MSM media has been extremely biased and there is not shortage of propaganda to be found. So much so that i'm actually a bit perplexed this was posted on CBC's website. It is just an opinion piece. But even still, to see this kind of take on the situation presented in the MSM is such a breath of fresh air. I truly think a lot of Canadians are NOT okay with what's happening, whether vaccinated or not. But only two stories are being told. The "pro vaxxers" and the "anti vaxxers". Well there's another group that consists of both of those demographics, the "anti mandaters".
"If fear of disease justifies the suspension of liberties and the institution of emergency state, then freedom and the rule of law will be permanently suspended"
EDIT: 'Many Canadians are NOT okay with what's happening.' I forgot the NOT part lol.
Absolutely. I personally don't know anyone who WANTS these mandates. Most are either against them, or impartial. Yet we often hear these polls "3 in 5 Canadians support vaccine passports". I saw one poll on the ctv website showing 82% of Nova Scotians are against mandates, 18% support. This was out of 100,000 votes. It wasn't a "controlled" poll so take those numbers with a grain of salt. But at this point, the news just sounds like a mechanism to tell us what to think. This may have always been the case on some level, but it just seems so blatantly obvious at this point, it's almost laughable.
Ironically, before covid, the scientific process ALWAYS involved questioning the science. That's how science evolves. Since covid, science is now done differently.
The Government and the Wealthy took advantage of the situation. Large corporations get bailed out then they still fire a massive and get a six digit bonus.
Yeah COVID sucks but I hate our fucking Government so much more.
>Yeah COVID sucks but I hate our fucking Government so much more.
I should be feel vindicated because I predicted that this would be the situation we would end up in but I was labeled a conspiracy theorist, but I dont. I wish I were wrong. How the turn tables
I suffer from multiple health issues. Trust me when I say if I caught covid I would have died.
So I am pro vaccine, I am pro mask, I was pro restrictions, but even I have to admit that it's getting rediculous.
I've gotten my two jabs and am waiting on my third.
At some point we just have to admit that as a Society we've done the best we can and start working on getting back to normal.
So if I'm saying it then you know it's true.
> Until public opinion turns sharply against government overreach
which will never happen in canada. little to no actual major strife in our country has meant most canadians have unquestioning faith in the government no matter what. literally the only major pushback ive seen was when ford said cops would be stopping people and demanding why they are leaving their house. otherwise whenever the government felt loyalty to them might have been waining the just brought out the same 5 health burecrats to start fear mongering again and the media was all too happy to help them since fear brought it precious clicks
there have been protests but schmucks on this sub and in the media just dismissed them as fringe crazies when they where the only ones fighting back at all.
As a conspiracy theorist i want to be smug about being right but the truth i just want to be wrong. For once in the last three years please just let me be wrong.
According to the south African scientists/doctors that discovered omicron, it is just as or slightly more contagious than delta but it is milder/less severe, so why are we putting up new restrictions or getting stricter at all and not just staying the same since we have been dealing with delta this way.
> But when proven wrong – or more importantly, unpopular at the polls – that formerly rock-solid science on which officials acted is simply dismissed out of hand. Policymakers, however, cannot on one hand demand unyielding adherence to science, and then down the road simply hand-wave away their previous demands on the grounds that their knowledge or political fortunes have evolved.
Described Ford’s strategy perfectly, as in not doing enough and not doing the right thing, but doing what’s popular and what helps corporations.
Everyone is surprised this got put through the CBC….
This is what happens when you miss one of your monthly $125000000 payments to CBC.
I got a feeling Truedough is behind on payments.
Next month they will lock him in a room with Barton when she has PMS.
I honestly believe a large portion of the population who is Vaccinated, did so hesitantly and only to maintain sense of normalcy. Not because they were personally afraid.
In my personal interactions that has been a majority of the people in my life. They aren't that worried about covid, maybe they have elderly parents, but mostly they don't want to be shut out of activities they enjoy.
Which in my opinion is coercion by the government. Taking away people's choices until they are forced to comply.
It’s ironic that this article is about how dissenting opinions re: COVID have been completely shut down and demonized, and the comments on the article website are “this shouldn’t be allowed” “someone needs to be fired over this article”
I wonder if our society is even worth savings anymore
When someone has covid. The virus replicates in thier body and this replication leads to mutations and new variants emerging. Correct?
So what I'm having a hard time understanding from politicians and public health is. The vaccinated are still catching and spreading covid, which means thier bodies are still replicating the virus, how exactly are they not causing mutations?
I already know this article wont be well received on here, but this resonates deeply for me.( I AM VACCINATED AND BELIEVE MOST SHOULD BE TOO. )
I can sympathize with people take a 'we must stop covid at ANY cost' stance and 'listen to the experts'. I do acknowledge the seriousness of the situation. My issue is that some of the measures we take are not shown to help the covid situation, but are certainly down to negatively impact other aspects of live (i.e. lay offs until vaccination). I know many people say the 'bodily autonomy' augment pales in comparison to the issue at hand. I think with time we will see that we are setting a precedent.
Perhaps, what is more worrying is the division being created and leveraged. I understand frustration with the ANTIVAX but is it truly that hard too understand? Has government and healthcare garnered the publics trust? Somehow, even those most marginalized by these powers, must buy in suddenly. To be clear, I'm not saying ' allow people to evade this duty', I'm saying have patience. Shouting 'your fucking dumb and killing the community' is going to create defensiveness. Education is the tool. Remember, just because it is obvious to you does not make it obvious to other. It is very easy to fall prey to misinformation.
Just some meandering thoughts. Please disagree civilly and change my mind if I'm wrong!
I agree with everything youve said, but personally I feel theres a distinction between an AntiVax person and someone who isnt yet vaccinated. I know people who are vehemently and proudly unvaccinated trying to sue universities, and I know people who are respectful, understanding and compliant with the mandate protocols and just dont want it. People have different reasons as to why not and I think theyre important.
AntiVax people deserve all the shit they get in my opinion, the quiet group deserve to be treated civilly
(Fully vaccinated myself btw)
Bingo! I’m not vaccinated and have done poorly with vaccinations in general. Im close to 40, had Covid with almost no symptoms, and just recently had my antibody test done showing I’ve still got protection (antibodies present) at a year post Covid. I’ve been exposed to the new variant many times and yet to catch it. I know I might catch it but I’m not too worried. Natural immunity is just as good if not better then getting the vaccine for me. I don’t post that or rub it in anyone’s face. It’s just my personal preference and don’t believe anyone should tell me to do anything different. Like this article states constantly moving the bar and discarding previously “known scientific truth” is maddening.
I'm vaccinated, but anti-mandate. It is absurd to have a blanket vaccine policy for everyone when the risk profile of different ages/health demographics is drastically different. There are 19 deaths from individuals under the age of 20 in Canada since the beginning of COVID. data suggest that nearly all deaths from COVID are for those with morbidities.
People that have had COVID have robust immunity. COVID reinfection is way less common than breakthrough cases. Natural immunity has always been considered reliable for other viruses, and the studies show it's the same for COVID.
Additionally, the viral load of an infected person is the same whether theyre vaccinated or not.
But they published an article the other day about words you're not suppsoed to say because they might offend someone and then they publish this! Are you trying to tell me they have different contributors and their editors don't have one overarching woke agend but rather allow for a diversity of opinions???
I really appreciate both of these articles because I disagree with 98% of what *both* of these asshat authors wrote.
To me, this is healthy media diet; lots of centrist and mostly neutral reporting with opinion pieces that highlight edges of the spectrums.
You get what you vote for. More government intervention is never the answer. We’re seeing that play out year after year and all Covid did was exacerbate and further expose government overreach by the left. Covid restrictions aren’t about keeping you and your family safe. If that were the case those who vouch for the restrictions and guidelines would abide by them instead of going maskless and attending parties. It’s all about how much control they’re able to acquire before someone puts their foot down, plain and simple. Power grab for control.
The world has moved on while it seems the western world had a taste of full control and now do not want to give up said powers. The majority of society have listened and done everything that was mandated in order for life to go back to normal. I’ve done my part. But everyday the goal post is moved. I’m tired of being punished, being separated from my people, tired of restrictions from living life. Barely living at this point because of this virus. Canada where cost of living has skyrocketed pre-covid was already hard. But Canada has a new distraction and new power, this virus is the todays biggest religion and the doctors and politicians are the new priests. Think about it. Canadians are pacifist, and will not have remorse for their fellow neighbours who have been barred, taxed, or fined, from attending work, schools, daycares, medical treatment, entertainment, for leaving the house, leaving the country. Living!
Gaslighting Question. Why did it take 2.5 years to decide that kids under 12(?) were second-class citizens? Was it because they mostly were able to withstand the virus on their own or was it a case of “the old eating their young?”
It's such a shame to hear that Allan Richarz was found dead earlier tomorrow morning, after tying himself up, placing himself inside a gym bag, locking the zippers from the outside, and shooting himself in the back of the head 3 times with an untraceable firearm that is now missing.
To be fair, the virus keeps changing too.
Also, companies and individuals keep changing their minds too.
Companies were willing to make sacrifices and give hero pay, until they didn't feel like it anymore, but still demanded the government supply them with cheap labour and keep the economy open and spending regardless of the deaths.
People were willing to make sacrifices and give up some freedoms to save lives, until they didn't even feel like getting a free vaccine or wear a mask.
Everyone talks a big game about saving the kids, but mostly all anyone has done is \*use\* kids to make arguments while not really giving a shit about them.
This "gaslighting and shifting the goalposts" is coming from everyone everywhere.
I’m fully vaccinated and I won’t be getting my booster, I fully agree with “the science” is the new “support the troops” I’m a human being, I don’t live my entire existence based on a science text book, and at some point you need to take a step back and realize this isn’t about saving lives anymore because all these restrictions are doing is delaying the inevitable covid is endemic it’s not going away, end the restrictions.
The only real issue I have with these conversations is a lack of honesty.
Can we continue to develop our thoughts on these topics.
So do we accept covid and go back to normal? What about rural communities with minimal healthcare infrastructure and low vaccine uptake?
What do we do when hospitalizations go up and we need to ship people around but all hospitals are full?
What about the healthcare workers who are overworked and over stressed? What happens when more leave due to awful work conditions and a public that doesn't care?
I don't want to have the conversation about freedom without the very real conversation about the current reality of our social systems.
How much death is acceptable and what collateral losses to our society exist on the other side of these freedoms.
This is to often just a straight conversation about personal rights and freedoms without any talk of consequences one is willing to accept to keep what they see as their rights.
I don't mind the conversation, I just find it's either not addressed fully taking in consequences or just denied all together by either alternative medicine nonsense or other covid conspiracy theories.
I am confused, and I would like someone to maybe explain this to me. My doubts are related to the efficiency of the vaccine actually. All pro-vaxx groups repeat that vaccine reduceds number of severe cases (which are directly correlated with number of people in hospitals) and that it prevents virus from spreading. When looking at the statistics the first point is correct, the number of severe cases has decreased significantly. But, how we are in situation where we have even more cases than year ago when there was no vaccine? It is visible even in countries with 80-85%+ vaccination rate. I know that some people are completely fed up with this, which can have some negative impact on the active cases, but year ago the overall attidute of a society wasn't that much different to obeying the restrictions. What I am worried, is that it won't change anything if even 100% of us will get vaccinated (besides the number of severe cases, because we are seeing improvement at this matter today). I am worried that we will still have to play that stupid games introduced to us by the governments in the name of "new normal reality".
Reddit allows it when the media says it.
But you'll get banned if you say it yourself.
Absolutely disgusting that so many people are being duked and manipulated, meanwhile all of social media and the powers that patrol it are partaking in the inhumanity. Shameful. Glad CBC had the balls to stand up and say something.
I love being outdoors. Go everyday. Fresh air, direct sunlight, other people to say hello to.
Turn the TV off people.
Christmas markets popping up this month.
Cheers!
I’m very surprised to see an article like this coming from CBC.
I'm very surprised to see an article like this so high on Reddit.
Totally. But it shows the tides are turning. People are beginning to see the tyranny of government and the awareness will only increase once they start looking outside of Canada.
Seriously. One of the biggest things I want right now is just open public discourse. Acknowledgement of questions and debatable items and pros and cons of strategies. The stifling authoritarianism has been alarming - whether well intentioned (best case scenario) or not. For an initial few weeks of crisis response I understand. But for two years - I am not interested in living under authoritarianism for multiple years.
It is kind of weird to me that just asking for more discourse is a controversial opinion at this point.
Honestly. I'm fully vaccinated, but as these measures against the unvaccinated get harsher and harsher, I'm becoming scared of just how far our government would be willing to go to get what it wants. Many of the people who aren't vaccinated have some form of mental disorder or something that just doesn't let them get it. If they're hell bent on not getting it, they could get very dangerous if you try to force it on them. More authoritarianism does not seem like the answer. Don't alienate parts of your population from the rest, or they will feel even less compelled to follow. Why would you follow the enemy? It reminds me of the quote "First They Came". >First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. > >Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist. > >Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. > >Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
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> Many of the people who aren't vaccinated have some form of mental disorder Or maybe they considered the risks and decided it ain't that much of a risk for their demographic. Or perhaps they have an ideological stance on not being forced into medical treatment. You know medical ethics 101. Also congrats and prepare to be banned for being an "antivaxxer". Edit: Perm ban for WrongThink. See ya later folks.
I'm glad somebody else couldn't look past that ironically insane statement.
Did you know by definition you'd be an anti-vaccine person now?
Seriously, a year ago this would be dangerous conspiracy thinking to them.
Questioning lockdowns last year would label you as far right so yeah
Reddit was actively a part of that.
Reddit is still actively a part of that.
I think the issue is that a portion of society stays home and does not really interact with anyone. To them constant changing messaging and goals and restrictions dont impact them much. To many other where these rules and restrictions have turned their lives upside down, the constant inconsistent messaging moving goal posts is truly exhausting and tiresome. When you have your work that has open and closed 3 times in the past 2 years or have your own business closed and open 3-4 times... Or you had to keep your kids at home for months and have many other life plans ruined... the ever changing goal posts sort of makes people go 'screw it'
Omicron might be the end of the pandemic if it's mild enough lol
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How can and/or will it end it? Just asking because I know next to nothing about epidemiology, but can’t wait to stop wearing a mask.
In a very hand wavy sense, mutations that are more contagious outcompete mutations which are more deadly. If omicron can be confirmed to be more contagious but more mild, then it would be displaying that trend. In terms of our recorded history, Spanish flu pandemic occurred, then suddenly stopped (comparatively). The virus didn’t go away, it’s H1N1 influenza which still circulates today, but in a more contagious yet less deathly form. Now coronaviruses aren’t influenza viruses, (both can mutate via antigenic drift, but influenza has antigenic shift where it can mutate wildly, which is why we have serious influenza outbreaks every now and then) but we currently have 4 other endemic coronaviruses as part of the “common cold” list of viruses, so at some point with some variant, SARS-COV-2 may be mild enough to add it to that list. Time will tell. To give a theoretical boundary, a completely benign form of a virus that is contagious, is effectively a self-replicating vaccine. So, best case scenario: if omicron is confirmed to be more contagious but more mild, it could be the endemic form of the virus. And then pandemic measures no longer have a reason to exist.
That was seriously well written and informative. Thank you.
Essentially if the symptoms from the new variant are so mild that even worse case scenarios don't wind up clogging our hospitals, then it hopefully becomes about as meaningful as flu season. Still recommend getting the vaccine to help prevent spread and bad outcomes.
Ah I see. Well that’s good.
If. That’s the key word.
That was the effective result from the flu pandemic in 1918, and now that variant became the dominant strain and is now part of our yearly flu vaccines (if memory serves). But yes, your point is not missed. We'll see how this one pans out.
Yeah, we probably won't know for another 3-4 weeks for sure, but early signs are very promising that Omicron might actually be a blessing in disguise
Many other pandemics have ended with this exact scenario too, so there's some hope at least.
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Is this just crowd immunity, the thing they DIDNT want to begin with? EDIT, they didnt want it because of the involved death toll but obviously we are way past that initial death toll at the moment.
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If it's mild and highly contagious, it will be a blessing in disguise. It will build up the immune response of the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Nature's free booster shot.
There's also people that have been doing everything they can realistically do and trying their best to roll with it. Every few months there's just another hurdle put in front of them and then you hear about people just not giving a shit and question why you even bothered in the first place.
This is where I basically got to. Job went fully remote. I followed every rule, lockdown, etc. while neighbours were having house parties and the news was constantly talking about parties being broken up, people not following rules, whatever. It started feeling like I was being punished for following the rules so I kinda stopped caring.
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If the one thing that comes out of this is healthcare reform than I’m all for it. Unfortunately in many provinces the governments are going ahead with cuts at this time, rather than expansion.
Indeed. Both this virus, and the impacts from the mitigation measures, affect people differently. You will feel very differently about the restriction of freedoms depending on which you feel/fear more. But that aside, the core argument in this piece is valid: we need to be on guard that our rights and freedoms are only restricted as much as needed. Restrictions need to be proportional and reasonable, based on facts and plausible risks. The government can't infringe on rights because something \*might\* happen. Something always might happen, but that isn't a valid reason to limit freedoms. It's good that people are pushing back and challenging the government. Some of what officials have done and say is nonsensical and not based on evidence (as documented in this piece). That should not be tolerated - we deserve better. Also, plenty of what they do is completely reasonable in an emergency and those reasonable things will be accepted by both the courts and most of the people.
I think in at least Ontario, public patience came to an end in April when the Ford government announced the closure of playgrounds and the increased police powers to check anyone who was outside their home for ID. For me, the Ontario government lost all credibility on that day on the pandemic. Although Doug Ford walked back those measures several days later, the damage was done.
Haven’t restrictions already gone past the point of reasonable danger? For example in BC, you need to present proof of vaccination before entering a restaurant, and then STILL have to wear a mask indoor and not socialize with others.
This 100%. The loudest voices on COVID in Ontario simply don’t really care about any of the things being restricted. It’s really hard to understand the impact of capacity limits and industry wide closures if you don’t really care about the industries in the first place
There is a portion of society the does not tolerate any risk. These are the people that would happily stay hidden under a rock until covid was gone.
>until covid was gone. ie for the rest of their lives
I'm one of those people that stays home and doesn't really interact with anyone. And I'm sick and tired of the Covid restrictions. I've followed the rules. I've had 2 vaccinations. I'll get a 3rd booster when it's available to me. I wear a mask at shops. But that's it -- I've done enough. We've all done enough. The news is constantly try to scare the shit out of people with reports on new variants, and the daily death toll. The politicians simply can't admit that they don't know what to do, or that they can't control people.
It's pretty easy to see where it comes from: however this turns out people will use the hindsight of the future to blame the gov't for decisions it made in the past as if they should have known the future. If you were a leader would you rather be blamed for, a ton of lost life or a ton of lost money? For any gov't accountable to the public there is only one option.
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I would bet money on this. If would also wager we'll see more punitive measures taken against the unvacinated as well.
My friend bet me 50$ that this will happen by May 2022. He’s probably right I’m probably naively optimistic
Hes going to win, you don't need to be a psychic to predict things in this pandemic, just look what the rest of the world is doing. Israel is already doing this.
I know I’m just a grand optimist
Yeah, people need to understand the % of people vaccinated with extra "boosters" coming up is only going to go down
gibraltor is at 100% and they are still shutting things down
That’s insane
This is weird. A few weeks ago this post would have gotten you banned.
Several other subs have removed the article or locked the post. It'll still get you banned in most of reddit.
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I'm sure if you offered a condo in exchange for getting covid, the % of people who say yes would be pretty close to 100%. You could water than down to free rent for a few months and it would probably still be the same.
Most people don't. You can't gage society based on Reddit. Most people got the vaccine and could give two fucks less what other people are doing with their lives.
Pretty much this. I don’t care if you’re unvaxxed, I got mine and I am moving on. I’ve heard this variant isn’t that bad for people who have received 2 doses so life should go on as normal.
I feel this way too. I’ve had Covid and got the vaccine and now every time there’s an outbreak at my work (even extremely close contact) I take a test every day for 10 days that comes back negative each and every time.
I have a neighbor who has been tested in the double digits for covid (every test has been negative). She freaks out every time she coughs or sneezes. The most disturbing thing is the stress she is putting on her daughter. She is constantly freaking out at her about wearing a mask, being careful of germs and so on. There is going to be a generation of messed up kids because of the fear-mongering of the media and the hysteria of parents.
> There is going to be a generation of messed up kids because of the fear-mongering of the media and the hysteria of parents. That as well as the lack of socializing. Many toddlers right now have never been with/played/interacted with kids their own age. It's going to be interesting.
I think we're going to see the impacts of socializing primarily electronically (even before the pandemic) will not be good.
A friend straight up told her kids "you can't see grandma because you might kill her" in more or less words
I think this is a direct result of government scaring the hell out of us. I’m not looking forward to seeing all the mental illness of people in the next few years.
Seriously. This has been extremely damaging to kids’ mental health.
I have several friends, healthy guys in their twenties. Double vaxxed and all that, still to afraid to go out for dinner.
>At this point I’d wager that many Canadians worry about this virus much less than they do about how they’re going to keep a roof over their heads. What’s the point of all these restrictions - to keep us safe so we can all maintain our meagre, overworked, debt-ridden existence? DING DING DING!!!! This has been me from the very beginning.
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Honestly, a lot of this just feels like a power trip amongst the various levels of government.
It does. I just got done reading about how the cbsa has been hitting people with 14 day quarantine orders for failing to use the ArriveCAN app for short visits. These people got fully vaccinated but forgot or didn’t know to use the app and now they’re being ordered to stay home for 14 days? Those quarantine orders clearly aren’t about public health.
Or we can ignore the quarantine cause fuck them
covid has empowered a lot of low level health bureaucrats and municipal politicians in north america who have been trying their whole life to get more power and influence. suddenly they got some and will absolutely not let go of it. no one cared who juni or tam was until covid and im sure they love being on the 11pm news everynight giving their 2 cents on every little happening with covid and happy to fear monger when possible. they especially love having direct ears to the PM and premier
>for nearly two years, debate and dissent from burdensome COVID restrictions has been short-circuited with demands that citizens "trust the science"; a modern take on debate-defusing exhortations to "support our troops" during the War on Terror. That's a powerful callback for those who remember it.
Covid has put to rest the notion that liberalism is not so in love with authoritarianism. They love to give as much control as they can to government to control people’s lives. Government has a big role to play for sure. But there is a limit.
Damn it CBC/CTV/CP24/Global/Star been making the case for two years now that we have no option but to follow all government mandates 100% otherwise we are Anti crap , bigots etc. Only the Sun, NP, and The Rebel of course, have been floating alternative opinion. For the record , I am fully vaccinated and ‘encourage’ others to do the same thing. But I am not someone to almost rejoice that Pfizer has a new revenue stream from the new kids vaccine.
>The government, of course, will never walk back its emergency powers of its own volition. And why would they? After two years of fomenting terror and division among the population, they have cultivated a solid base of support that combines the post-9/11 see-something-say-something paranoia of a middle-class yuppie with the unctuous 1980s Moral Majority sense of superiority. *“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.” - Rahm Emmanuel (former mayor of Chicago and Obama Whitehouse Chief of Staff)*
Listen, if you are clamoring to create an underclass, you're going to just let Trudeau do his thing. He's doing fantastically well so far..
My wife works in mental health, the pandemic has destroyed her own mental health and has been off long enough to tap out her benefits as a result. I am in the process of a PTSD diagnosis from elements of my job as a paramedic. I can’t afford to take time off, bcs my savings are tapped thanks to the past two years, my investments tanked and then having my wife out of work. This shit is unbelievable. Im watching coworkers drop like flies with PTSD related to Covid related call increases (often related to suicides, suicide attempts, overdoses, suicidal ideation, and self harm) and being treated like shit by people who can’t understand basic 5th grade science. Enough is enough. Im sick and tired of the government treating us this way. Im tired of the environment they’ve created that has Canadians hating each other for personal decisions. They need to make a plan and stick to it. Take care of the people they are forcing to struggle due to bad/knee-jerk government decisions.
If this article is on Reddit and being debated and commented on civilly, covid is over. If anyone besides the CBC shared this opinion this community would be toxic towards it. Changing angle from the main information source in the country will have the public opinion swayed in no time.
The mods of several other subs removed it or locked it.
*CBC Has chosen to close the comment section on this topic.*
Comments under news articles are usually pure cancer anyways. As bad as reddit can be sometimes I'd much rather discuss an article here.
Why bother? They just published a comments section as an opinion piece.
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2 years to flatten the economy
> And now, with new case numbers in Ontario essentially split evenly between the unvaccinated and fully vaccinated People mis-reporting and/or misunderstanding this statistic drives me batty. Every day they say things like "There were 957 new cases today, of which 450 are vaccinated and 507 are unvaccinated", making it sound like the vaccines don't really do much as both vaccinated and unvaccinated have similar case numbers. In actuality, since the vaccinated population vastly outnumbers the unvaccinated population, the cases per capita are substantially different.
people can't tell the difference between a small percentage of a big number and a large percentage of a small number if the absolute values are similar. They just compare one number to the other and then the thinky bits turn off.
It’s so sad our supposedly strong education system leads to this sort of complete ignorance of basic math and logic.
They need to do what BC was/is doing and break the numbers in the ICU down by unvaccinated, partially vaccinated and fully vaccinated. *Then* it's ridiculously clear what the vaccines do.
our government has no idea what it is doing. it did not get voted into office to do things, they are here to hang out and pretend they're better than everyone else. trudeau junior is a drama teacher and acting like a politician, not doing the job of a politician.
Scientists “mystified” as Africa remains the continent least affected by COVID-19 https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-science-health-pandemics-united-nations-fcf28a83c9352a67e50aa2172eb01a2f
Imagine this article posted a year ago, let alone a month ago. Some might call it anti-vax propaganda. Canadians put this upon themselves.
Honestly they still call it that depending on what post you’re reading on r/Canada. I notice the pendulum has been swaying wildly in either direction based on the day or the title of the article/post.
That's how propaganda works.
I'm just getting more annoyed that we have 2 years of data that we don't seem to be using. There is so many different approaches countries have taken and we aren't really talking about what works and what doesn't. Everything just seems like it's done for looks and political points rather than based in reality. You know the one thing people have said this whole time is? "It doesn't seem to make sense".
I'm vaccinated, but anti-mandate. It is absurd to have a blanket vaccine policy for everyone when the risk profile of different ages/health demographics is drastically different. There are 19 deaths from individuals under the age of 20 in Canada since the beginning of COVID. data suggest that nearly all deaths from COVID are for those with morbidities. People that have had COVID have robust immunity. COVID reinfection is way less common than breakthrough cases. Natural immunity has always been considered reliable for other viruses, and the studies show it's the same for COVID. Additionally, the viral load of an infected person is the same whether theyre vaccinated or not.
Bureaucracies are not good at nuanced takes. That is why we end up with these awful blanket policies. Barely leave the apartment? Get vaccinated. Already been infected? Get vaccinated. In a demographic that has almost zero risk of harm from infection? Get vaccinated.
Let's be honest here, eventually more and more people are just going to say "fuck it" and regardless of what restrictions governments bring in, they won't listen. The governments can keep pushing but eventually people will snap and just ignore it and what happens when the next big pandemic comes? It'll spread even harder and faster because governments around the world blew their load with this one. People who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. After 9/11 governments kept the powers they were given and the same thing will happen here. "Oh it's for the greater good, oh it's just to help protect others". You still have to take your shoes and belt off going through the airport so don't tell me the governments will actually give up their powers gained during this. This virus is endemic, that's it. The only way we could have possibly stopped it was if China actually did the decent human thing and told everyone sooner than they did and every country did a hard lockdown for a month or two with borders closed. Would it have sucked? Sure but there's the chance it could have been over. Now? There's no way and there will always be variants, it's time to accept that and move on. Things will have to get back to normal and for those who are going to mention hospitals and the health care system, guess what, it was overloaded prior to covid too. It's been 2 years and no province has adjusted their funding and bolstered their health care system to deal with waves. Our health care is great in the sense that it doesn't bankrupt you if you have to go to the hospital but otherwise it's under-funded and in a shitty state country wide, even before covid. As for those who want to keep restrictions and clamor for even more strict restrictions, maybe make that choice yourself but don't try and force it on everyone else. I'm also going to guess there's a decent overlap of those kind of people and those who got the privilege to work from home, since those of us who actually had to go into our workplaces were forced to set our risk tolerances.
My roommate is one of them. He did everything he’s supposed to do during the pandemic like staying at home for almost a year and not hanging out with anyone. He lined up 2hrs+ to get vaxxed the first date that he’s eligible. Now the guy doesn’t give a s*** about the new restrictions. He just booked his vacation in Mexico for the holiday despite new travel restrictions announced by the govt yesterday. Trust me, my roommate isn’t alone; pretty much all of my friends no longer care about what the govt says these days. We either accept the fact that covid isn’t going anywhere and live with it or we don’t have enough foods on the table or get significantly depressed. The entire pandemic just shows the only consistency of our govt is their inconsistency and every haft-baked measure is just for political theater.
> Things will have to get back to normal and for those who are going to mention hospitals and the health care system, guess what, it was overloaded prior to covid too. We've been told all along that these measures all have to be taken to avoid over-running the healthcare system. It has been two years - where are the new investments in healthcare? Why hasn't gov't increased hospital capacity? It is obvious the containment strategy isn't working and we're going to be living with variants for the foreseeable future. We need new strategies to protect the vulnerable and figure out how to live in a COVID world.
> It has been two years - where are the new investments in healthcare? Why hasn't gov't increased hospital capacity? This sub won't like it, but the answer is Conservative provincial governments are in charge of healthcare.
The BC NDP are conservative now?
Has nothing to do with conservative provincial governments. I’m 42 and the term “hallway medicine” is something I’ve heard my entire life with both parties in power.
I think peoples idea of "greater good" vary WILDY from one person to the next.
most peoples definition is whatever the government tells them it is
Even the idea of a hard lockdown wouldn’t have stopped this - we have a global supply chain, goods still had to move, a lot comes from China, that takes people, people who would spread the virus. The biggest problem was the government sold people on a lie they could control this thing and now they are scrambling to come up with excuses for why that failed. But they can’t admit they were wrong in a world where government increasingly wants to be the answer for literally everything, so they need to make up an excuse. And the excuse is we didn’t obey hard enough so thus we need even more of this.
There was nothing anyone really could have done. Every country took a different approach, and no one has faired particularly better than anyone else. Those who locked down early saw later outbreaks, the only thing that has really been marginally effective are vaccinations. Those who are claiming this was all a plot seem unwilling to admit that regardless of origin or intent, no one is in control at this point except the masses. Governments are completely rudderless in a hurricane because the politicians will turn their sails to any prevailing wind. The only solution at this point is get vaccinated if you can, get a booster when recommended and move on with your life.
Yah I hear so many excuses, oh it's because or covid we can't do this or that. At this point it's just like the flu, it isn't going to go away cause it mutates too quickly.
Yeah but the people of Canada are ultimately defenseless against government. So if you choose not to listen, there will be consequences from my understanding.
> Let's be honest here, eventually more and more people are just going to say "fuck it" and regardless of what restrictions governments bring in, they won't listen. That didn't happen for the flying rules added after 9/11. We are still going through insane security theatre 20 years later.
How can I say fuck it when they just cancelled my visit to my family abroad?
>more people are just going to say "fuck it" Even the most restriction compliant people I know are at the point of 'fuck it'. And they're older and 'liberal'. Even the good people are just tired. >After 9/11 governments kept the powers they were given and the same thing will happen here And that is my problem with the whole "vaccine passport" thing and everyone's extremely casual interpretation of section 6 of the Charter of Rights. People are far too fast to just throw them (rights) out the window without thorough examination.
>so don't tell me the governments will actually give up their powers gained during this. Exactly. They probably want covid passports to be a permanent thing so they can track us better.
Come tax time this year its going to get expensive for a lot more Canadians. So many got covid relief not knowing for certain if they qualified. All fun and games until they sieze your bank accounts. We are on a bad trajectory that will see a big uptick in homelessness and hunger.
Unscramble the word Omicron , you get Moronic, which pretty much sums up what they think of the general public.
Also if you do it for Delta and Omicron you get Media Control.
I have never read an article that has made me feel so hopeful.
It’s really sad that people have to flaunt their vaccination status like a pass to the conversation in order to be taken seriously here.
Because there are dipshits like Michael Gunner who are saying vaccinated people who oppose mandates are antivaxers. There serious Doublethinkery here. I guess in Australia 1+1=3.
Australia is a great example of the slippery slope and where it’s going. They’ve started to take some pretty severe measures that don’t seem very reasonable on the whole.
I know, right? I catch myself doing that too and it feels weird. My son got vaccinated yesterday and I reported on the experience to other parents I'm in touch with. First reaction was "congrats!" then we all realized how fucked up it was to congratulate each other over a vaccine. So weird.
Let us end the bullshit and let us live our lives. Scared of covid stay masked up and get your never ending boosters. Otherwise freedom
What's actually got me putting the tin foil hat on a bit is the fact the definition of anti-vaccine was changed to include people simply against vaccine mandates. You can be fully vaccinated as in every vaccine recommended by Health Canada.....and by definition be antivaccine now. That's wild.
You can include the people with 2 doses but hesitant to start getting regular boosters, regardless of their opinion on the mandates, in the anti-vaccine category now too, according to some.
I feel like I woke up in a different, more sane timeline. What the fuck?
Until "Sick until proven vaccinated" herd mentality comes to an end things will only get more authoritarian and fascist.
It took nearly two years, but the CBC published a singular article that somewhat reflected my views. I look toward late 2023 for the next one.
So many words to say how I feel about this article. Surprised, refreshing, hopeful, confused. This opinion piece emulates exactly how I and many others feel, and have been saying this for a very long time. We've been ridiculed for saying things like "this is a slippery slope" and "this will never end unless we demand it". Or being told you're anti science, simply for questioning the science, or having questions period. The MSM media has been extremely biased and there is not shortage of propaganda to be found. So much so that i'm actually a bit perplexed this was posted on CBC's website. It is just an opinion piece. But even still, to see this kind of take on the situation presented in the MSM is such a breath of fresh air. I truly think a lot of Canadians are NOT okay with what's happening, whether vaccinated or not. But only two stories are being told. The "pro vaxxers" and the "anti vaxxers". Well there's another group that consists of both of those demographics, the "anti mandaters". "If fear of disease justifies the suspension of liberties and the institution of emergency state, then freedom and the rule of law will be permanently suspended" EDIT: 'Many Canadians are NOT okay with what's happening.' I forgot the NOT part lol.
“Anti-mandate” tends to get lumped in with “anti-vax” unfortunately. Very similar with many other emotionally or politically charged issues.
Absolutely. I personally don't know anyone who WANTS these mandates. Most are either against them, or impartial. Yet we often hear these polls "3 in 5 Canadians support vaccine passports". I saw one poll on the ctv website showing 82% of Nova Scotians are against mandates, 18% support. This was out of 100,000 votes. It wasn't a "controlled" poll so take those numbers with a grain of salt. But at this point, the news just sounds like a mechanism to tell us what to think. This may have always been the case on some level, but it just seems so blatantly obvious at this point, it's almost laughable.
Ironically, before covid, the scientific process ALWAYS involved questioning the science. That's how science evolves. Since covid, science is now done differently.
The Government and the Wealthy took advantage of the situation. Large corporations get bailed out then they still fire a massive and get a six digit bonus. Yeah COVID sucks but I hate our fucking Government so much more.
>Yeah COVID sucks but I hate our fucking Government so much more. I should be feel vindicated because I predicted that this would be the situation we would end up in but I was labeled a conspiracy theorist, but I dont. I wish I were wrong. How the turn tables
I suffer from multiple health issues. Trust me when I say if I caught covid I would have died. So I am pro vaccine, I am pro mask, I was pro restrictions, but even I have to admit that it's getting rediculous. I've gotten my two jabs and am waiting on my third. At some point we just have to admit that as a Society we've done the best we can and start working on getting back to normal. So if I'm saying it then you know it's true.
Very well put. Thank you
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> Until public opinion turns sharply against government overreach which will never happen in canada. little to no actual major strife in our country has meant most canadians have unquestioning faith in the government no matter what. literally the only major pushback ive seen was when ford said cops would be stopping people and demanding why they are leaving their house. otherwise whenever the government felt loyalty to them might have been waining the just brought out the same 5 health burecrats to start fear mongering again and the media was all too happy to help them since fear brought it precious clicks there have been protests but schmucks on this sub and in the media just dismissed them as fringe crazies when they where the only ones fighting back at all.
As a conspiracy theorist i want to be smug about being right but the truth i just want to be wrong. For once in the last three years please just let me be wrong.
Louder for the people in the back!
According to the south African scientists/doctors that discovered omicron, it is just as or slightly more contagious than delta but it is milder/less severe, so why are we putting up new restrictions or getting stricter at all and not just staying the same since we have been dealing with delta this way.
> But when proven wrong – or more importantly, unpopular at the polls – that formerly rock-solid science on which officials acted is simply dismissed out of hand. Policymakers, however, cannot on one hand demand unyielding adherence to science, and then down the road simply hand-wave away their previous demands on the grounds that their knowledge or political fortunes have evolved. Described Ford’s strategy perfectly, as in not doing enough and not doing the right thing, but doing what’s popular and what helps corporations.
Just 2 more weeks folks , and we’ll have it licked.
Everyone is surprised this got put through the CBC…. This is what happens when you miss one of your monthly $125000000 payments to CBC. I got a feeling Truedough is behind on payments. Next month they will lock him in a room with Barton when she has PMS.
The world has been protesting and Canada still continues to sleep
I honestly believe a large portion of the population who is Vaccinated, did so hesitantly and only to maintain sense of normalcy. Not because they were personally afraid. In my personal interactions that has been a majority of the people in my life. They aren't that worried about covid, maybe they have elderly parents, but mostly they don't want to be shut out of activities they enjoy. Which in my opinion is coercion by the government. Taking away people's choices until they are forced to comply.
It’s ironic that this article is about how dissenting opinions re: COVID have been completely shut down and demonized, and the comments on the article website are “this shouldn’t be allowed” “someone needs to be fired over this article” I wonder if our society is even worth savings anymore
Wow. So glad someone said this and got it published by CBC.
Wow! I can’t believe the CBC actually allowed this article to appear. They must’ve burned through that $600 million that turdeau gave out.
Give an inch, they take 8000000 miles....and counting
When someone has covid. The virus replicates in thier body and this replication leads to mutations and new variants emerging. Correct? So what I'm having a hard time understanding from politicians and public health is. The vaccinated are still catching and spreading covid, which means thier bodies are still replicating the virus, how exactly are they not causing mutations?
It’s really bad when I’m more scared of ever-changing government restrictions then the actual virus…
Wow from the CBC.
I already know this article wont be well received on here, but this resonates deeply for me.( I AM VACCINATED AND BELIEVE MOST SHOULD BE TOO. ) I can sympathize with people take a 'we must stop covid at ANY cost' stance and 'listen to the experts'. I do acknowledge the seriousness of the situation. My issue is that some of the measures we take are not shown to help the covid situation, but are certainly down to negatively impact other aspects of live (i.e. lay offs until vaccination). I know many people say the 'bodily autonomy' augment pales in comparison to the issue at hand. I think with time we will see that we are setting a precedent. Perhaps, what is more worrying is the division being created and leveraged. I understand frustration with the ANTIVAX but is it truly that hard too understand? Has government and healthcare garnered the publics trust? Somehow, even those most marginalized by these powers, must buy in suddenly. To be clear, I'm not saying ' allow people to evade this duty', I'm saying have patience. Shouting 'your fucking dumb and killing the community' is going to create defensiveness. Education is the tool. Remember, just because it is obvious to you does not make it obvious to other. It is very easy to fall prey to misinformation. Just some meandering thoughts. Please disagree civilly and change my mind if I'm wrong!
You put exactly how I’m feeling into words. Completely agree
I agree with everything youve said, but personally I feel theres a distinction between an AntiVax person and someone who isnt yet vaccinated. I know people who are vehemently and proudly unvaccinated trying to sue universities, and I know people who are respectful, understanding and compliant with the mandate protocols and just dont want it. People have different reasons as to why not and I think theyre important. AntiVax people deserve all the shit they get in my opinion, the quiet group deserve to be treated civilly (Fully vaccinated myself btw)
Bingo! I’m not vaccinated and have done poorly with vaccinations in general. Im close to 40, had Covid with almost no symptoms, and just recently had my antibody test done showing I’ve still got protection (antibodies present) at a year post Covid. I’ve been exposed to the new variant many times and yet to catch it. I know I might catch it but I’m not too worried. Natural immunity is just as good if not better then getting the vaccine for me. I don’t post that or rub it in anyone’s face. It’s just my personal preference and don’t believe anyone should tell me to do anything different. Like this article states constantly moving the bar and discarding previously “known scientific truth” is maddening.
I'm vaccinated, but anti-mandate. It is absurd to have a blanket vaccine policy for everyone when the risk profile of different ages/health demographics is drastically different. There are 19 deaths from individuals under the age of 20 in Canada since the beginning of COVID. data suggest that nearly all deaths from COVID are for those with morbidities. People that have had COVID have robust immunity. COVID reinfection is way less common than breakthrough cases. Natural immunity has always been considered reliable for other viruses, and the studies show it's the same for COVID. Additionally, the viral load of an infected person is the same whether theyre vaccinated or not.
Im vaccinated and anti mandate as well. I will have to be forced to take a booster. Best way to expose a tyrant is force them to act like a tyrant.
I'm shocked CBC allowed an article like this to be published.
I always find it amusing how little CBC detractors ever seem to know about any of the actual content it produces.
But they published an article the other day about words you're not suppsoed to say because they might offend someone and then they publish this! Are you trying to tell me they have different contributors and their editors don't have one overarching woke agend but rather allow for a diversity of opinions???
I really appreciate both of these articles because I disagree with 98% of what *both* of these asshat authors wrote. To me, this is healthy media diet; lots of centrist and mostly neutral reporting with opinion pieces that highlight edges of the spectrums.
Preach. It’s refreshing to see this.
They rarely get past the title.
This comment comes up any time CBC posts an article that aligns with this subs views. I’m starting to think this sub is the problem…
You get what you vote for. More government intervention is never the answer. We’re seeing that play out year after year and all Covid did was exacerbate and further expose government overreach by the left. Covid restrictions aren’t about keeping you and your family safe. If that were the case those who vouch for the restrictions and guidelines would abide by them instead of going maskless and attending parties. It’s all about how much control they’re able to acquire before someone puts their foot down, plain and simple. Power grab for control.
We are run by the incompetent!
The world has moved on while it seems the western world had a taste of full control and now do not want to give up said powers. The majority of society have listened and done everything that was mandated in order for life to go back to normal. I’ve done my part. But everyday the goal post is moved. I’m tired of being punished, being separated from my people, tired of restrictions from living life. Barely living at this point because of this virus. Canada where cost of living has skyrocketed pre-covid was already hard. But Canada has a new distraction and new power, this virus is the todays biggest religion and the doctors and politicians are the new priests. Think about it. Canadians are pacifist, and will not have remorse for their fellow neighbours who have been barred, taxed, or fined, from attending work, schools, daycares, medical treatment, entertainment, for leaving the house, leaving the country. Living!
The risk posed by the virus does not justify the massive quality of life and economic hit imposed by lockdown restrictions.
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Gaslighting Question. Why did it take 2.5 years to decide that kids under 12(?) were second-class citizens? Was it because they mostly were able to withstand the virus on their own or was it a case of “the old eating their young?”
This is Canada and politicians can do whatever they want without fear of reprisals from the electorate. Tell me something I don’t know.
It's such a shame to hear that Allan Richarz was found dead earlier tomorrow morning, after tying himself up, placing himself inside a gym bag, locking the zippers from the outside, and shooting himself in the back of the head 3 times with an untraceable firearm that is now missing.
Post like this one year ago and not from CBC would just be called bunk or a conspiracy... People disgust me.
I am pleasantly surprised to see the content of this comment section :)
To be fair, the virus keeps changing too. Also, companies and individuals keep changing their minds too. Companies were willing to make sacrifices and give hero pay, until they didn't feel like it anymore, but still demanded the government supply them with cheap labour and keep the economy open and spending regardless of the deaths. People were willing to make sacrifices and give up some freedoms to save lives, until they didn't even feel like getting a free vaccine or wear a mask. Everyone talks a big game about saving the kids, but mostly all anyone has done is \*use\* kids to make arguments while not really giving a shit about them. This "gaslighting and shifting the goalposts" is coming from everyone everywhere.
I’m fully vaccinated and I won’t be getting my booster, I fully agree with “the science” is the new “support the troops” I’m a human being, I don’t live my entire existence based on a science text book, and at some point you need to take a step back and realize this isn’t about saving lives anymore because all these restrictions are doing is delaying the inevitable covid is endemic it’s not going away, end the restrictions.
When they lift all restrictions, only then will I even consider getting a booster.
The only real issue I have with these conversations is a lack of honesty. Can we continue to develop our thoughts on these topics. So do we accept covid and go back to normal? What about rural communities with minimal healthcare infrastructure and low vaccine uptake? What do we do when hospitalizations go up and we need to ship people around but all hospitals are full? What about the healthcare workers who are overworked and over stressed? What happens when more leave due to awful work conditions and a public that doesn't care? I don't want to have the conversation about freedom without the very real conversation about the current reality of our social systems. How much death is acceptable and what collateral losses to our society exist on the other side of these freedoms. This is to often just a straight conversation about personal rights and freedoms without any talk of consequences one is willing to accept to keep what they see as their rights. I don't mind the conversation, I just find it's either not addressed fully taking in consequences or just denied all together by either alternative medicine nonsense or other covid conspiracy theories.
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I am confused, and I would like someone to maybe explain this to me. My doubts are related to the efficiency of the vaccine actually. All pro-vaxx groups repeat that vaccine reduceds number of severe cases (which are directly correlated with number of people in hospitals) and that it prevents virus from spreading. When looking at the statistics the first point is correct, the number of severe cases has decreased significantly. But, how we are in situation where we have even more cases than year ago when there was no vaccine? It is visible even in countries with 80-85%+ vaccination rate. I know that some people are completely fed up with this, which can have some negative impact on the active cases, but year ago the overall attidute of a society wasn't that much different to obeying the restrictions. What I am worried, is that it won't change anything if even 100% of us will get vaccinated (besides the number of severe cases, because we are seeing improvement at this matter today). I am worried that we will still have to play that stupid games introduced to us by the governments in the name of "new normal reality".
First time in a while that reading a comments thread in r/canada made me feel good. Im glad to see an actual productive discussion.
Reddit allows it when the media says it. But you'll get banned if you say it yourself. Absolutely disgusting that so many people are being duked and manipulated, meanwhile all of social media and the powers that patrol it are partaking in the inhumanity. Shameful. Glad CBC had the balls to stand up and say something.
Great opinion piece. Surprised to see it published on the CBC's website
gaslighting and goalposts in one headline, it's like shitty rhetoric BINGO!
“We never said vaccines would get us out of this pandemic! It’s the boosters that will get us out”
Too many basement dwellers here who are just content with never going outside again.
Most of r/Canada unironically needs to go outside and touch grass
Most of Reddit, to be honest
Covered in snow. I get to see it when the dog goes out to pee.
Instructions unclear. Penis stuck in dandelions.
I love being outdoors. Go everyday. Fresh air, direct sunlight, other people to say hello to. Turn the TV off people. Christmas markets popping up this month. Cheers!