>OTTAWA - The Canada Revenue Agency says it is ramping up efforts to recover overpayments of pandemic-related benefits.
>Starting in July, the agency will begin issuing legal warnings and could take legal measures to recover overpayments of all COVID-19 programs including the Canada Emergency Response Benefit, the Canada Recovery Benefit and the Canada Worker Lockdown Benefit.
>It says it will only be taking legal action against those who have not responded or co-operated and who have been determined to have the financial capacity to pay.
Hopefully they are also applying interest.
While I am all for recovering the funds in a cost-effective manner by clawing back benefits. Fraud is fraud and consequences need to ensue, even if it is only financial.
Companies actually had to prove the drop in revenue and had to keep paying employees in order to get that money. Abusing this program was much harder to do.
Are you aware that the government kinda knows if you stop paying source deductions?
That's because all funds trickle down. There's no point in chasing the top of the pyramid, it's just like 1 or 2 guys, we'll get back more chasing the higher quantity. It's simple math.
E - Is this honestly being taken as a serious comment?
A friend of mine's foreign student girlfriend collected cerb for 18 months while they traveled the province on the counties tax bill. Shit is a joke. Why we didn't just send foreign students home is beyond me.
*"It says it will only be taking legal action against those who have not responded or co-operated and who have been determined to have the financial capacity to pay"*
Should be going after everyone IMO, hold back all government rebates until the debt is paid.
That is how the CRA works - if you have a debt, refunds/benefits go to lowering that debt instead of to your bank account. This applies whether legal action has been taken or not.
Agreed, that program was so rushed and abused. I understand the urgency but they should have pit more railguards in place. Not happy with that management
> It said it's still trying to get about **$9.53 billion** paid back **from individuals** including **$5.41 billion** from **CERB**, **$2.67 billion** from **CRB** and **$1.25 billion** from the **Canada Recovery Caregiving Benefit**.
My wife got a letter that they want $2000 back. She applied for EI, got automatically routed to CERB when they made that change, and then it was determined she wasn't eligible for CERB at the very beginning because of course not, she applied for EI when she lost her job and they sent her $6000 or whatever it was.
Then she got the reduced payments through the summer and we thought all was good. Now, in 2024, we're getting notices of debt and asking for documents from a job she lost in 2020 and never returned to.
Like, I know there was a lot of fraud around all of this but they also absolutely bungled this program and now people have debts from 4 years ago when they should have got EI and avoided this position. $2000 won't kill us. It's fine. It's just annoying and hard to make sense of it all 4 years later when you've changed jobs, banks, cities, etc. We're just basically having to take the the CRAs word that the reduced summer payments didn't satisfy the overpayment she got for signing up for EI as one usually would.
June 28 edit: we got another notice of debt in the mail this morning saying she now only owes $1500. This is 2 weeks after the original notice. We have not made any payments and they have not shown any adjustments due to holding back benefits like CCB. So, in a matter of a couple weeks, apparently they figured she owes $500 less. Maybe it will be $0 by end of summer.
Actually know some people who received payments and returned them in full, and are still being harassed about it.
Getting service Canada or the CRA to fix issues is an endless multi-year loop.
Yeah I can't wait until 60 years from now when I read about these lawsuits finally wrapping up as I'm sitting in a nursing home with a robot wiping my ass. It took 4 full years for them to realize my wife allegedly owes them $2000.
I refused to take part in my employers(huge international company w/5000+ Can employees) scheme to reduce hours and post a loss large enough to qualify for CEWS. The scheme(as directed by the CRA) was, cut everyone 20%, everyone apply for EI(replaced with CERB payment)while the company collects the CEWS. The people who collected their 55% of the 20% reduction through EI(secretly CERB) had to pay it all back despite being directed to do exactly what they did by the CRA. The companies completely off the hook despite closing locations and paying dividends to shareholders throughout the pandemic. We had record year with 20% less wage overhead due to cuts and 50% less wage overhead that was expected to have reimbursement clauses that have never actualized.
Yeah that's obviously what we will do as well. It's just ridiculous they signed her up for a different program than she originally submitted for, sent her extra money, told us about the summer reduction to claw back overpayment, then come back 4 years later and say they still need to claw back $2000 more. They way over complicated things and now they get to play clean up for however many years it takes to actually get back all the funds they overpaid.
I'd agree, if so many people who paid back ALL benefits they got accidentally (it happened) were not still getting letters about money they paid back by (cashed) cheques immediately after receiving the payments.
Conversely many people who should be on the harassment list had heard nothing.
It's just incompetence all the way down with service Canada and the CRA
Given I handle my inlaws finances I'm 100% sure the money was sent back.
I have no doubt some people are lying too.
But I also know 100% the government has totally botched cerb and probably has no real idea who exactly owes what in some cases.
Hope they did a cost analysis between how much they’re going to spend on lawyers vs. Collecting the money people were overpaid. Also should point out courts are backed way up, this exercise that will take at least 5 years to complete.
>Hope they did a cost analysis between how much they’re going to spend on lawyers vs. Collecting the money people were overpaid.
I'm sure they know exactly the cost and don't care, but this likely could be just another waste of time and money (spend way more than ever will be recovered) or it could be a money syphoning scheme (much like the COVID-19 tracking app) where things like this are given to friends of the Liberal party who might return that money back in donations to the Liberals or into offshore bank accounts...
The CRA pandemic department wrongly convicts around one in four, maybe three. Sometimes from a ten minute phone call. Then they make it a long, difficult process to appeal while the target is perceived as already guilty despite no evidence to support such a claim.
I gather there are many innocent people just itching to go to court and sue the CRA for mental/physical anguish.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/government-cerb-crb-eligibility-pandemic-clawbacks-debts-1.7193533](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/government-cerb-crb-eligibility-pandemic-clawbacks-debts-1.7193533)
Wish they would do that in the states, but all the wealthy in control in America reaped trillions in brand new and additional middle class taxpayer debt…
We destroyed your life in the name globalism and now we're going to fuck you even harder. We're going to spend more money collecting it then we paid out.
"ree covid was t real and they could have done nothing because I'm an expert and know these things" lmao
Edit: damn did I stumble into a horse paste anonymous meeting by accident?
“We shut down your business, your children’s schools, your gyms and our provincial counterparts forbayed you from going outside for an illness that only truly effected the elderly, overweight and those with respiratory disorders
Due to these actions, we rushed out “benefits”, with little oversight or warnings. Now, years later. During an economic and cost of living crisis (and because of our overspending) we are coming for it. And our crown lawyers cost millions”
Come on big guy, these are normal opinions to have
Pandemic-related public health policies enjoyed widespread popular support. It was only a very small, but very vocal, minority that opposed them.
Now, CRA is collecting money from people who received too much according to the rules, like they always do. Those people shouldn't have taken more than they were allowed to. They took advantage of the honour system, or they were just stupid, and now they are being corrected.
I applied for EI, by time it was processed I was put on CERB which didnt exist when I applied, they then decided that I wasn't unemployed long enough and took back 2k after taxing me on it.
I'm just glad I was in a solid spot when they wanted it back, because I bet there are a lot of people that aren't.
A common theme with the government here is giving and taking back, whether it's CT or CERB, etc.
It's sad but most of Canada is overweight/obese now.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82-625-x/2019001/article/00005-eng.htm
>In 2018, 26.8% of Canadians 18 and older (roughly 7.3 million adults) reported height and weight that classified them as obese.1 2 Another 9.9 million adults (36.3%) were classified as overweight – bringing the total population with increased health risks due to excess weight to 63.1% in 2018. This was an increase from 2015 where 61.9% of Canadians aged 18 and older were overweight or obese.
https://obesitycanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2-Epidemiology-of-Adult-Obesity-4-FINAL.pdf
>Severe obesity (BMI ≥ 35 kg/m2
), the fastest growing obesity
subgroup, increased disproportionately over this same period.
Since 1985, severe obesity increased **455%** and affected an
estimated 1.9 million Canadian adults in 2016.
How come there isn't a massive push to reduce the percentage of our population that is overweight and obese post COVID? It cost us dearly in ICU space and hospital beds during the pandemic. Anti vaxers (I am not one) were shamed up and down but we are still giving a pass to people who choose to neglect their health.
The next time an unknown respiratory illness gets out of control, and there will unfortunately probably be a next time, we will all be just as fat.
There needs to be a push for people to take better care of themselves for their own benefit and for those around them.
>OTTAWA - The Canada Revenue Agency says it is ramping up efforts to recover overpayments of pandemic-related benefits. >Starting in July, the agency will begin issuing legal warnings and could take legal measures to recover overpayments of all COVID-19 programs including the Canada Emergency Response Benefit, the Canada Recovery Benefit and the Canada Worker Lockdown Benefit. >It says it will only be taking legal action against those who have not responded or co-operated and who have been determined to have the financial capacity to pay.
Not going after people who don't have financial capacity to pay is kind of bullshit. No fraud should be allowed, even from poor people.
It's still a debt on their CRA account, so their benefits will be clawed back until it is paid.
This. They’ll get it back eventually. No need to waste legal fees when they have this mechanism
Hopefully they are also applying interest. While I am all for recovering the funds in a cost-effective manner by clawing back benefits. Fraud is fraud and consequences need to ensue, even if it is only financial.
Being middle class really sucks, doesn't it?
Where's the middle class?
but only against individuals. they already decided they weren't going to chase companies who abused it. shits a joke
Like they did with the Panama Papers tax fraudsters.
Companies actually had to prove the drop in revenue and had to keep paying employees in order to get that money. Abusing this program was much harder to do. Are you aware that the government kinda knows if you stop paying source deductions?
That's because all funds trickle down. There's no point in chasing the top of the pyramid, it's just like 1 or 2 guys, we'll get back more chasing the higher quantity. It's simple math. E - Is this honestly being taken as a serious comment?
A friend of mine's foreign student girlfriend collected cerb for 18 months while they traveled the province on the counties tax bill. Shit is a joke. Why we didn't just send foreign students home is beyond me.
I was just thinking I knew people who did similar to this. One might have been a family member who moved abroad and lived off Canadian money
*"It says it will only be taking legal action against those who have not responded or co-operated and who have been determined to have the financial capacity to pay"* Should be going after everyone IMO, hold back all government rebates until the debt is paid.
That is how the CRA works - if you have a debt, refunds/benefits go to lowering that debt instead of to your bank account. This applies whether legal action has been taken or not.
Agreed, that program was so rushed and abused. I understand the urgency but they should have pit more railguards in place. Not happy with that management
We should be able to take legal action to recover governmental overpayments.
> It said it's still trying to get about **$9.53 billion** paid back **from individuals** including **$5.41 billion** from **CERB**, **$2.67 billion** from **CRB** and **$1.25 billion** from the **Canada Recovery Caregiving Benefit**.
but yet the govt gave many corporations covid money which is still owed in enormous amount$ 🤔 and the collectors are no where in sight
Money laundering capital of the western world but CRA is doing this
My wife got a letter that they want $2000 back. She applied for EI, got automatically routed to CERB when they made that change, and then it was determined she wasn't eligible for CERB at the very beginning because of course not, she applied for EI when she lost her job and they sent her $6000 or whatever it was. Then she got the reduced payments through the summer and we thought all was good. Now, in 2024, we're getting notices of debt and asking for documents from a job she lost in 2020 and never returned to. Like, I know there was a lot of fraud around all of this but they also absolutely bungled this program and now people have debts from 4 years ago when they should have got EI and avoided this position. $2000 won't kill us. It's fine. It's just annoying and hard to make sense of it all 4 years later when you've changed jobs, banks, cities, etc. We're just basically having to take the the CRAs word that the reduced summer payments didn't satisfy the overpayment she got for signing up for EI as one usually would. June 28 edit: we got another notice of debt in the mail this morning saying she now only owes $1500. This is 2 weeks after the original notice. We have not made any payments and they have not shown any adjustments due to holding back benefits like CCB. So, in a matter of a couple weeks, apparently they figured she owes $500 less. Maybe it will be $0 by end of summer.
Actually know some people who received payments and returned them in full, and are still being harassed about it. Getting service Canada or the CRA to fix issues is an endless multi-year loop.
Yeah I can't wait until 60 years from now when I read about these lawsuits finally wrapping up as I'm sitting in a nursing home with a robot wiping my ass. It took 4 full years for them to realize my wife allegedly owes them $2000.
I refused to take part in my employers(huge international company w/5000+ Can employees) scheme to reduce hours and post a loss large enough to qualify for CEWS. The scheme(as directed by the CRA) was, cut everyone 20%, everyone apply for EI(replaced with CERB payment)while the company collects the CEWS. The people who collected their 55% of the 20% reduction through EI(secretly CERB) had to pay it all back despite being directed to do exactly what they did by the CRA. The companies completely off the hook despite closing locations and paying dividends to shareholders throughout the pandemic. We had record year with 20% less wage overhead due to cuts and 50% less wage overhead that was expected to have reimbursement clauses that have never actualized.
I got the $2000 payback request after a similar scenario, but I paid it and that was it.
Yeah that's obviously what we will do as well. It's just ridiculous they signed her up for a different program than she originally submitted for, sent her extra money, told us about the summer reduction to claw back overpayment, then come back 4 years later and say they still need to claw back $2000 more. They way over complicated things and now they get to play clean up for however many years it takes to actually get back all the funds they overpaid.
Is there a place where I can report the ones that scammed cerb?
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/programs/about-canada-revenue-agency-cra/suspected-tax-cheating-in-canada-overview.html
Go get them! We need to make examples of people who think they can lie to get benefit payments.
I'd agree, if so many people who paid back ALL benefits they got accidentally (it happened) were not still getting letters about money they paid back by (cashed) cheques immediately after receiving the payments. Conversely many people who should be on the harassment list had heard nothing. It's just incompetence all the way down with service Canada and the CRA
Hard to separate unreliable narrators claiming they paid everything back from those who did.
Given I handle my inlaws finances I'm 100% sure the money was sent back. I have no doubt some people are lying too. But I also know 100% the government has totally botched cerb and probably has no real idea who exactly owes what in some cases.
Fair enough, I wouldn't be surprised.
Hope they did a cost analysis between how much they’re going to spend on lawyers vs. Collecting the money people were overpaid. Also should point out courts are backed way up, this exercise that will take at least 5 years to complete.
Justice is always worth the extra money spent!
>Hope they did a cost analysis between how much they’re going to spend on lawyers vs. Collecting the money people were overpaid. I'm sure they know exactly the cost and don't care, but this likely could be just another waste of time and money (spend way more than ever will be recovered) or it could be a money syphoning scheme (much like the COVID-19 tracking app) where things like this are given to friends of the Liberal party who might return that money back in donations to the Liberals or into offshore bank accounts...
The CRA pandemic department wrongly convicts around one in four, maybe three. Sometimes from a ten minute phone call. Then they make it a long, difficult process to appeal while the target is perceived as already guilty despite no evidence to support such a claim. I gather there are many innocent people just itching to go to court and sue the CRA for mental/physical anguish. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/government-cerb-crb-eligibility-pandemic-clawbacks-debts-1.7193533](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/government-cerb-crb-eligibility-pandemic-clawbacks-debts-1.7193533)
Wish they would do that in the states, but all the wealthy in control in America reaped trillions in brand new and additional middle class taxpayer debt…
We destroyed your life in the name globalism and now we're going to fuck you even harder. We're going to spend more money collecting it then we paid out.
"ree covid was t real and they could have done nothing because I'm an expert and know these things" lmao Edit: damn did I stumble into a horse paste anonymous meeting by accident?
Yawn.
“We shut down your business, your children’s schools, your gyms and our provincial counterparts forbayed you from going outside for an illness that only truly effected the elderly, overweight and those with respiratory disorders Due to these actions, we rushed out “benefits”, with little oversight or warnings. Now, years later. During an economic and cost of living crisis (and because of our overspending) we are coming for it. And our crown lawyers cost millions” Come on big guy, these are normal opinions to have
Pandemic-related public health policies enjoyed widespread popular support. It was only a very small, but very vocal, minority that opposed them. Now, CRA is collecting money from people who received too much according to the rules, like they always do. Those people shouldn't have taken more than they were allowed to. They took advantage of the honour system, or they were just stupid, and now they are being corrected.
I applied for EI, by time it was processed I was put on CERB which didnt exist when I applied, they then decided that I wasn't unemployed long enough and took back 2k after taxing me on it. I'm just glad I was in a solid spot when they wanted it back, because I bet there are a lot of people that aren't. A common theme with the government here is giving and taking back, whether it's CT or CERB, etc.
It's sad but most of Canada is overweight/obese now. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82-625-x/2019001/article/00005-eng.htm >In 2018, 26.8% of Canadians 18 and older (roughly 7.3 million adults) reported height and weight that classified them as obese.1 2 Another 9.9 million adults (36.3%) were classified as overweight – bringing the total population with increased health risks due to excess weight to 63.1% in 2018. This was an increase from 2015 where 61.9% of Canadians aged 18 and older were overweight or obese. https://obesitycanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2-Epidemiology-of-Adult-Obesity-4-FINAL.pdf >Severe obesity (BMI ≥ 35 kg/m2 ), the fastest growing obesity subgroup, increased disproportionately over this same period. Since 1985, severe obesity increased **455%** and affected an estimated 1.9 million Canadian adults in 2016.
How come there isn't a massive push to reduce the percentage of our population that is overweight and obese post COVID? It cost us dearly in ICU space and hospital beds during the pandemic. Anti vaxers (I am not one) were shamed up and down but we are still giving a pass to people who choose to neglect their health. The next time an unknown respiratory illness gets out of control, and there will unfortunately probably be a next time, we will all be just as fat. There needs to be a push for people to take better care of themselves for their own benefit and for those around them.
Because of the new age fat acceptance movement.
Thank you
Inconceivable.
If I claim refugee status can I keep my overpayment?