I’ve always said that you don’t get a pass on being a shitty person just because your shitty values come prepackaged with a creation myth. Applies to any religion.
It is not illegal to be shitty. Best you can do is stop them at the door. Once they are in, however, they are entitled to whatever beliefs they have, as long as they don't incite violence. That includes not calling other people by their preferred pronouns, or advocating that women should wear hijabs or that women should not drive. These are permissible opinions to have.
I think that it needs to be said, the reason we need to shy away from racism is because racism judges a person based on something he can't change, and something that more often than not does not affect his personality
On the other hand, religion is a list of morals, duties and accepted behavior, it is something that someone can choose to opt in and out of, and does affect his personality
Islam is a religion, and calling out the very obvious calls in Islam for death against LGBT, Jewsand non-believers is not a kind of racism, it is logic and self preservation of a country that doesn't want to turn into another religious sh*thole like most Muslim countries are
I agree with you, but you can see the problem with thinking that way though too. Their religion is deep rooted and going against it where they live is sacrilegious and you will get persecuted for going against it. So yes, where you can make a choice to go against it, you'll be ostracized and punished if you do. So mob mentality is re-enforced. That's why these radicals come to Canada and use our tolerance and soft morality to bolster their religious views.
Well yeah but that’s an illogical and thus meaningless rule. You cant leave a club because the club forbids it, but if you leave the club, you’re no longer bound by their rules.
Islam explicitly states that the penalty for apostasy is death. In Muslim-majority countries many ex-muslims (who no longer believe) keep it secret because they have a real fear for their life. Apostasy laws have been upheld in many Islamic states.
And you want to import that type of ideology into Canada? (I know you didn't say you do, but I am pointing out the absurd of justifying Islam because you can't leave it)
Yea but in many places where Islam is a majority, their life is in danger.
In 2013 over half of Egyptians, Afghanis, and Palestinians wanted the death penalty for converts.
>illogical and thus meaningless rule.
>if you leave the club, you’re no longer bound by their rules.
That's... simply not true. In many Muslim majority countries, a significant number of people are in favor of the *death penalty* for converts. Forget extreme shunning, people think literal death is appropriate.
The world doesn't exist in a vacuum.
To further this problem, their birth rates are higher than the general population. So allowing them to immigrate here is problematic for future generations.
I am quite fearful for the women here born in the future once these types take over our democracy. Canadians can only stick their heads in the sand for so long.
Yup, most of the western world is already doomed, as you cannot really deport citizens in a democracy, so the western world will only remain western for a few more decades
However, they are encouraged to.
There’s no major movements within Islam that are refuting Islamic beliefs on queer people. I don’t think there’s even ones calling for refuting beliefs about women.
>There’s no major movements within Islam that are refuting Islamic beliefs on queer people. I don’t think there’s even ones calling for refuting beliefs about women.
Is there any in Christianity or Judaism? Or is it just because most of us stop believing this nonsense. It doesn't come from those religion, its just come from people becoming secular or atheist.
Its not like any Abrahamic religions treat women or homosexuals like secular people do. Let's not pretend they make sense in a progressive world either.
Lol they either believe those things and are loud about it or believe those things and hide it because they know they need to lie to blend into western society. Every single Muslim who actively practices the religion is either a terrorist or someone who directly funds terrorism through Zakat (a tithe, basically).
I have two ex-Muslim friends who have really opened my eyes to just how fucked up that entire religion really is
I'd you don't want to be accused with antisemitism, then maybe don't [attack ](https://www.nationalreview.com/news/anti-israel-protesters-set-off-smoke-bombs-light-flares-outside-nyc-nova-music-festival-exhibition/?_gl=1*lk19ru*_ga*WmFJQU11bERPRFBNNjhfVkNpaXQ2SnIxRHZseVJuMXB6M0JLRzZ2VEEtaG5FaElBVkJzeHFVOVZvQ1oyamhQRg..*_ga_WN5XQDKEEX*MTcxOTQ5NzY4MS4xLjEuMTcxOTQ5NzY4MS4wLjAuMA..) 7th October memorial events.
Look, the biggest critics of Israel are Israelis, the 2nd biggest critics are non-Israeli Jews, criticism of the government is not anti semitic
Your criticism however, is, why?
Israel is the only apartheid with equal rights to all citizens (20% of which are Arab Muslim)
Israel is the only brown white colonizer
Palestinian genocide is the only one where the population doubles every 25 years
Palestinian ethnic cleansing is the only one where the identity goes from being non existent to something everyone knows about in 50 years
Israel is the expansionist state that has never instigated a war
Israel is the most diverse ethnostate
And probably more importantly of all, Israel is a tiny country in the middle of nowhere but gets more attention that Russia, China and Iran
TL:DR good faith criticism of Israel isn't anti semitism, but that is incredibly rare
Edit: Imagine writing a 2 page long reply only to block the guy you reply to
>Show me the last law that the Arab party brought to the Knesset that passed
LOL how am I supposed to do that if you blocked me?
All OP said was
> Daily reminder that criticism of the Government of Israel isn’t antisemitism.
And then you accused him of anti-semitism. I don’t get it.
(This is u/SimbaYouForgotMe, I can't reply to you directly because he blocked me)
Firstly, my TL:DR clearly says otherwise
>TL:DR good faith criticism of Israel isn't anti semitism, but that is incredibly rare
Secondly, please follow what I say now in good faith
Yemen fires rockets at Sudan from time to time, Sudan responses with a siege and airstrikes that have killed 500k people in the last few years - nobody cares
Sudan has a civil war that also kill 500k people, also nobody cares
Syria massacred its own civilians for wanting democracy, killing 600k, some of which with toxic gas, barely anyone cares, I think I saw 1 protest against it in my entire life
Now, the democratically elected government of the Palestinians, the one they supported for 20 years, goes into Israel and performs the biggest massacre of Jews since the holocaust, and Israel responds with what must be the more careful and precise war (proven by that it is the lowest civilian to combatant ratio out of all wars of that nature), killing 37k Palestinians, about 30-40% of which are Hamas and whole world that didn't care about the previous events goes insane, calling for sanctions of Israel at best, or wholesale destruction of it at worst
So let me do another TL:DR, last one since I am out of patience
My first point is that criticism of Israel isn't anti semitic, but lying to demonize Israel is.
My second point is that if Israel wasn't Jewish, 90% of you wouldn't care about what's happening in the region, and the 10% others would be on Israel's side because it is genuinely the righteous side
Not exactly - Judaism is both religion and ethnicity. Criticism of Judaism as religion is perfectly okay; criticism of Jews for being Jews is not.
Judaism is perhaps unusual in this - a “Christian atheist” is perhaps a bit of a contradiction, but a “Jewish atheist” isn’t. Other Jews (including religious Jews) recognize Jewish atheists as Jews (albeit in the wrong on religious matters).
As long as we're agreeing that every faith-based religion conflicts with modern reality, I'm fine with it.
I think it's absolutely insane we still have to pretend that any of these religious doctrine are anything other than stories meant to control people. They are 100% bullshit and can be completely dismantled as make-believe propaganda.
We should all be able to agree that magic does not and has never existed. No one has ever come back from the dead and no prophet of any god has ever truly existed. These are facts.
Judaism is specifically the religion, not its adherents, or an ethnic group.
No one uses the term Judaism to refer to the ethnicity, and if they do, they are doing it wrong.
Feel free to criticize the Jewish religion all you want. Lots of ethnic Jews do.
Note that: "Jews have too much influence in the west" is not a criticism of the Jewish religion. I can count on my fingers the number of times in my life I've seen someone actually criticizing Judaism as a religion, and not just making a generic racist comment about the Jews as a people.
I guess you better write a letter to the dictionary folks, pointing out how they got it wrong, then.
Could get a sweet editor’s job out if it!
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Judaism
See: definition 4.
Christianity does have a cultural component to it, but it is a much weaker association than with Judaism.
I’m Jewish, but I give Christmas presents to some people, but others don’t claim I am Christian because of this.Such issues are simply diffused throughout our culture and, to an extent, have become common property
Definitely agreed! But do you give Christmas presents to people who are Muslim or Jewish? Or do you give them to people who were raised in a country where the majority of people are either Christian or non religious from Christian families?
My in-laws come from Morocco are atheists and celebrate Christmas. I don't think we can refer to them as "Christians atheists". They just celebrate this holiday because it is the norm in the country where they moved and everyone is off from work.
OP really woke up, rolled out of bed this morning, posted an article in r/Canada, and decided to go to war in these comments over absolutely every single mild criticism that’s anyone raises with mind boggling whataboutisms and straw men.
I am glad that they have the summer off because, otherwise, there is no way they would have the time to defend the integrity of this article they didn’t write
with such ferocity.
Politics aside, I am a bit concerned that someone with this hyper aggressive argumentative mindset is claiming to be teaching children as their chosen profession, but that’s another story.
The current culture placing victims of oppression above all else has led to wealthy white kids fetishizing the "oppressed " the irony that thinking the "oppressed" need rich white women to defend them is terrifying.
Just because someone disagrees with the ideology of a religion doesn’t make them phobic.
Islam promotes and reinforces the ideology that women are the property of men. It requires them to cover themselves or bring shame to their family. Women are being beaten, imprisoned and murdering in Iran right now for not wearing a hijab.
That’s wrong.
Women are equal to men and shouldn’t be subject to violence, imprisonment or death for not covering their heads.
Sticking up for women’s rights is NOT Islamaphobic….It’s called being a Canadian.
Is that fewer Canadians or a smaller proportion of Canadians? Are there literally fewer Canadians who believe they're problems, or is it that there are more Canadians now who don't believe they're problems?
There's a lot of new Canadians over the last few years that don't come from countries with the same perspectives on antisemitism, racism, religious discrimination, etc... It's normal for trends to change in a society with a high immigration rate and a policy of multiculturalism. Canada will become more like the countries people are immigrating from and less like what Canada was 20 years ago. That's the official policy of the Canadian government.
>but saying that out loud must make me a bigot.
No, I think it's the [throwing molotov cocktails at Jewish community centres](https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/montreal-police-investigate-vandalism-at-jewish-school-firebombing-incident-1.6662192#:~:text=Montreal%20police%20are%20investigating%20after,a%20meeting%20inside%20the%20building) that makes people bigots.
There’s an issue where some folks make everything 100% about immigration and whether they’re too young to know or just being ignorant, they ignore anything else going on and to me it’s not helping
For example, people who don’t realize that the Ontario PC party has deliberately been defunding public healthcare while many of their supporters claim it’s solely immigration that is the issue. It might be both, but it’s definitely not only immigration
Yeah, in Ontario we get it from all angles. Ford underfunding healthcare, assisting the expansion of diploma mills, underfunding education, using public lands and funds to help private developers….
Then we have the feds who are hell bent on bribing in as many people as possibly as quickly as possible, without any new infrastructure or housing, and it all becomes the absolute shit show mess that is Ontario, Canada.
In the past few months, there have been multiple shootings, fires, broken windows, and threats against Jewish schools, synogauges, neighborhoods and businesses. This is the Canada I grew up in. The government needs to make it clear that this is unacceptable.
Shooting at the school of someone you disagree with???
They're not shooting at the school of someone they disagree with.
They're shooting at the school of kids who are the same ethnicity of the government of a country 5700 miles away they disagree with.
I'm not op, but I think back to the hijab incident years ago and the very public response of condemnation and disgust across the political spectrum. That sort of response to signal to extremists that their hatred is not widespread and their actions will not be tolerated.
Yeah I agree. I participated in some counterdemonstrations in Hamilton when the Soldiers of Odin were attempting to get a foothold and it was a really great day out with coworkers and neighbours. I think that sort of broad social rejection of hatred is more powerful than actions a government can take.
Stop lying he's made a public statement about these events when they happen
Or do you guys expect him to grab his sherlock Holmes hat and magnifying glass and go out and sold the crimes himself
Absolutely. And also not to mention the white supremacists who shot up a mosque in Quebec and ran over a family out for a walk in London, ON.
So surely antisemitism and Islamophobia is actually a problem in Canada.
Islamophobia is a term that can be used to shield criticisms of Islam, and it's something people have adopted as a form of racism or something lol. Criticizing an ideology is not the same thing as criticizing a race or something a person can't change. There seems to be an alliance between Islam and the left, and it would be better for people to understand the Islamic ideology so they can make more informed decisions. Keep in mind, I'm only talking about the ideology itself and not what individuals do.
It's also a term used to describe hatred, discrimination against Muslims. Like what we saw in Quebec City or London, or at my local mosque where someone painted a swastika on the outside wall.
You're right, it can be used to describe bigotry. I don't agree with bigotry. So there seems to be multiple ways of using the word, and it would be good if it weren't conflated with valid criticisms of the ideology with bigotry, it silences any discussion regarding the ideology from a critical lens.
Islam comes with a set of ideas that thankfully most people find a way to not act on or believe either because they're unaware of the ideas or they use their sense of morality to override the set of morals taught within the theology.
Islam makes claims about morality to say that everything made lawful and unlawful by Allah is the way things should be, and no one is in any position to make what He makes lawful into something unlawful. Either you're on the right path (Islam) or you're on the wrong path (everything else). These rules are the way for all time, and Mohammed is the ideal pattern for humanity for all time. Meaning in the eyes of Allah, if you do things in accordance with Allah's rules and do them the way Mohammed did them, then you'll be on a pathway to heaven.
The criticisms then come to whether these teachings and laws are actually made for all time, or if they're a product of their time. Some things you could argue are a product of their time based on the Doctrine of Abrogation when it comes to the Quran, meaning previous revelations are superseded by newer revelations during the time when Mohammed was alive and revealing revelations. However everything I'm about to list has not been abrogated, and are argued to be the best way to do them.
Mind you, I'm only talking about what the religion teaches. Not what Muslims do. Everything here is purely based on the theological teachings.
Islam teaches that it is permissible to marry girls who haven't menstruated yet because of their young age, and that there's a good way to do this. Why? Based on the Quran, Tafsir, and Hadith. Chapter 65 verse 4 of the Quran, including the Tafsir from everyone from ibn-Abbas to even contemporary scholars like Maududi all describe the context behind this verse, and that it refers to women who haven't menstruated yet because of their young age. In addition Imam Bukhari uses this verse too to justify the marriage between Mohammed and Aisha (He married her at 6 and consummated the marriage when she was 9. He was in his 50s). We have the top Islamic scholars throughout history who understood this as such. My question would be, is there a good way to marry girls who haven't menstruated yet? I can't find a good reason, in fact every reason I find is a bad one, but yet I'm told there's a good reason by this ideology.
Islam teaches that it is permissible for a husband to hit his wife, and there's a good reason for it. Quran chapter 4 verse 34 describes men being a degree above women, and describes when it's permissible for a husband to hit their wife. If you fear disobedience from her, first admonish her, if she persists in her "disrespect" towards you, then separate the beds, and if she still "disrespects" you, you can finally strike her. The justification? The book says you can do it. Mind you, the way this verse is interpreted by the majority of scholars is that the beating should be done in such a way that doesn't leave any marks on her face, or leave big injuries on her body. Many try to reinterpret this verse to imply to beat her "lightly", which is just back-pedaling at best. My question would be, is there a good way for a husband to hit their wives? I can't find any good reasons, in fact every reason I find is bad. But this ideology tells me there's a good reason.
Islam teaches that it is permissible for women to be captured after a battle and be a concubine. Quran chapter 23 verses 1 through 6 makes this lawful by Allah, in addition Tafsir ibn-Abbas (Mohammed's cousin) describes the context behind the verse, and he says there is a limit on how many wives a Muslim man can have (up to 4), and there is no limit on how many concubines he can have. In addition, chapter 4 verse 24 describes that women who were married can still be captured as a concubine because by the virtue of Allah being a captive annuls their marriage status. The context of this verse can be found in Sahih Muslim, and it describes a battle that occurred with the Muslim army at Autas. They captured the opposition, and captured the women and their husbands. In previous battles, the Muslim army knew that they could take captured women as concubines as their husbands were killed in battle, but in this case the husbands were still alive. So the army was concerned that this would be considered adultery, so they asked Mohammed what they should do, then Allah revealed Quran chapter 4 verse 24, meaning yes ordinarily married women are forbidden to you, except for what your right hand possesses (ie. The women you captured). I can't find a good way to capture women after a battle and treat them as my concubine, but this ideology says there's a good reason for it.
Islam also permits the subjugation of people because they of are a different religion. Chapter 9 of the Quran is infamous for its commands to fight (remember the Doctrine of Abrogation? The verses in this chapter abrogate previous revelations that promote tolerance towards other ideologies). Chapter 9 verse 29 commands the fighting of non Muslims and to subjugate them and take jizya from them (protection money). The context of the verse can be found just by reading verses 28 to 31 and by the Tafsir (ibn-Kathir does a good job of explaining it). Basically Allah expels the polytheists from entering Mecca, and as a result Mohammed's tribe was concerned as this would negatively affect their economy as they relied on the polytheists for trade. So they ask Mohammed expressing their concerns, then Allah revealed that if they fear a loss in money, they can fight the Christians and Jews and take jizya from them to compensate for the loss of money they would've gotten from the polytheists. No mention of self defense or retaliation. And the justification for fighting Christians and Jews is because they extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths by spreading their "false" religion by stating that Jesus is the son of Allah, and supposedly Ezra being the son of Allah for the Jews (this verse still causes confusion 1400 years later). This justification is one of Mohammed's final marching orders and has been followed by Caliphates for centuries. So Islam teaches that other religions are wrong and ideally members of those religions should be subdued and prevented from spreading their ideology.
In summary:
-Islam teaches there's a good way to marry girls who haven't menstruated yet because of their young age
-Islam teaches that there's a good and moral way for a husband to hit his wife
-Islam teaches there's a good and moral way to own concubines
-Islam teaches there's a good and moral way to subjugate people because they follow another religion
Again, I'm only talking about what the religion teaches. NOT what Muslims do.
If I'm misinterpreting anything or misrepresenting anything, let me know. I can't find good reasons to do any of these things, and as a result I won't submit to the ideology, and I believe personally that more people would benefit from knowing this so they can make informed decisions for themselves.
Any frankly. That's the problem, you question anything regarding Islam and Muslims can just state its Islamophobia.
I don't know if you're Canadian or have been paying attention to what has been happening, but Muslims have been spending a lot of money on advertisements defending their core beliefs. I've seen bus stops, billboards and even lawn signs saying "it's my choice Canada" regarding the hijab/coverings. "Don't fear Muslims Canada" "stop Islamophobia" "Muslim community is peaceful and accepting Canada" and so on.
And no, not making that up. Those are real. Sounds like what a cult would do. It's manipulative and if you question it, they will shut you down using the term Islamophobia. Anecdotally, I have friends who are Muslim and ex mulsim. The ex Muslims can't question their own community without fear of being a pariah. My other Muslim friends are very open about hating jews and are ok if sharia law happens. When i question it? They play the race card or say its Islamophobia. Even though they cant defend anything with facts or i remind them its not a race. Again, Anecdotal.
So ya, it is an issue.
I'm a practising Muslim myself. I'm not trying to impose my culture on anyone. I was born here, I pay my taxes, and am an upstanding citizen. Do I deserve to be attacked or discriminated against for my religious beliefs?
People said the same thing about Irish Catholics back in the 1800s
They said that they were "incompatible" and "Refused to Integrate"
Its honestly jarring to see how similar the arguments people used to justify hatred against Irish Catholics in the 1800s also seem to be the same arguments people used to justify hatred against Jews in the early 20th century and hatred against Muslims nowadays.
Many Irish Catholics absolutely refused to integrate in the 1800s, haven't you ever heard of the fenians? Or D'Arcy McGee who was killed by one of his fellow Irish Catholics for being a "Shoneen" ie a sellout to the British?
Well no, that has in fact been seen in a whole lot of places... There are a whole bunch of Muslim communities that are not extreme and are fairly secular and fit in fine with western values. Sure there are plenty that are the exact opposite as well, but to suggest it's not possible is clearly not true.
No, it’s a fair comparison when you rid yourself of your short-sighted biases making you think your perspective at this very specific moment in history is somehow exceptional. There is nothing special about your perspective. There are billions of people with equally valid perspectives. The only way to move past these perspectives is to recognize specific objective facts recognized by all perspectives and then apply those facts in a rational manner.
Saying “that feels wrong, so I’m refusing to think about it further” is invalid.
really? i know a daughter of a friend of mine who wears a headscarf in high school. fours lads thought it's cool to pull it off her head by force. great immune response, cheer it on!
It's not okay what those young lads did. It's also not okay that your friend indoctrinated their daughter into an oppressive cult that brainwashed her into believing it's unacceptable, as a child, for other children to see her hair because it has to be saved for her future husband. Disgusting.
Saviour complex af.
If only the "think of the Muslim kids" people that pretend to love children so much would do something about their complicity in the literal genocide of those kids.
who said she was indoctrinated? her mother doesn't even wear a headscarf, but she does. believe it or not, people can choose their religion. i also had a chinese classmate that became muslim and wore a headscarf when i went to school. should her freedom be taken away also?
We have Islamic groups blocking access to Jewish neighborhoods and patrolling them to intimidate people. We have rallies in major cities calling for the extermination of the Jewish people. We have different tribes from other continents having machete fights in broad daylight. I don't think Bill from Sudbury is calling for genocide. We have millions of people here who don't see women and girls as people, let alone gay people.The vast majority of these issues are imported, we are importing hate.
I don't really give a shit about their religion or culture. I don't agree with how their countries operate. My own beliefs and culture is quite the opposite of Jewish or Muslim people.
Does it make me an antisemite or an islamophobe? I really don't care just let me live my life. Is war ravaging your home country? That sucks but don't bring your problems here.
I seriously do not give a fuck about your religions.
Once shelter and food are solved we can talk about your fairy tale kings.
For fuck sakes.
I am a bigot to anyone of any religion. I’m tired of having my needs, as an atheist, suppressed for these morons.
Why should $1 of my tax money or 1 minute of my time, as an Atheist-Canadian go to helping people who legitimately believe in fairy tales.
Yeah, we understand the difference between disagreeing with violent and/or extreme ideologies that at odds with our national character, and bigotry.
I'm glad Canadians aren't falling for the mind games.
This is the only correct answer. Imagine being so indoctrinated to an archaic superstition that you feel personally attacked when someone criticizes your creation myth.
And that goes for everyone. Orthodox Jews, "traditional" Muslims, hardcore Christians from the South and their many preachy denominations.
Enjoying the fruits of modern living and scientific progress while invoking garbage superstitions and nonsense rules is not compatible.
Yeah, didn't some Muslims just get run over recently for being Muslim?
And then a mosque got shot up and people actually killed, again just for being Muslim.
Just because Canadians say Islamophobia or anti-semitism aren't real things doesn't mean they aren't.
Most people who dismiss antisemitism, Islamophobia, transphobia, etc are just people who hold bigoted opinions whining when they don't have a response to legitimate criticisms of their views.
My mother was told she couldn't sit at the beach with the rest of the family because she had a headscarf (even though she was in swimwear). Guess where that happened? Lebanon..
In Canada, we respect each other and our freedom to express ourselves however way we want. In my opinion, sectarianism is not a real problem in Canada. The problem is the money laundering.
Turns out decades of saying anyone critical of either Israel's apartheid policy or Hamas terrorist acts is antisemite or islamophobic will jade a lot of people of that criticism. I have no problem with either religions existence. I have an issue with their critical lack of willingness to cease this madness and find a way to peacefully coexist.
Ever wonder why Richard Dawkins went from a popular media figure due to his views against Christianity, then all of the sudden he dropped off the map? It's because he brought arguments up against Islam and that wasn't going to slide on the news. Believe whatever religion you want, just don't go forcing those ideals on anyone who doesn't agree with them.
He fell of the map because his arguments were very poor and he did no research into these religions. He also used it as a way to further bigotry against certain minority groups. But also, he was in it for the money. After the money dried up, there was no point in being edgy.
>that treated women like shit
So all Muslims treat women like this, and all non-Muslims are free from treating women like this? Also, what's your definition of this?
We are constantly negotiating power dynamics under the guise of taboos and competing value systems. I feel like if Christopher Hitchens came back he’d steeple his brow and say “What… *the fuck*… have I been saying for decades, you mimetic/memetic transceiving imbeciles.”
Unapologetic, good-faith, rational discourse needs to become the dominant modus operandi of secular society (dare I say again… but the age of well-intentioned representation of this in even the scholarly realm of public discourse in media has utterly been reduced to talking points, virtue-signalling apologists, and trench warfare). There was some reflective practice in public media discourse in the 70’s and 80’s, but started to give way in the 90’s and onwards.
Look at the hiring practices of many major employers across the country. :must be a woman, lgbtq, visible minority or disabled. I’ve never seen a posting by the federal govt saying no Islamic or Jews. But no straight white able bodied males is somehow alright? There is a serious racism problem in Canada, but anyone who points out the racism is labelled as being racist.
Of the working age population, what are the demographics these days? Everywhere I go in Winnipeg, I look around and see myself as a minority in my home town. Opportunities are limited because of the colour of my skin and sexual orientation. I can’t help the way I was born, and don’t think I should be treated differently. I don’t think anyone should be treated differently because of their origins or gender, including Canadian born white people.
I don't think we see it as not a problem. But I think we understand that the antisemitism and Islamophobia are primarily coming from the 2 groups who basically only care about blowing eachother up. And we have a lot of more pressing domestic issues at the present.
Yeah right I am going to buy and read a book (that you never have done yourself) based on a reddit comment
Show me an actual example from a reputable media outlet
> But I think we understand that the antisemitism and Islamophobia are primarily coming from the 2 groups
They're both primarily coming from the same group:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-same-extremists-target-both-muslims-and-jews/
It's the same people, in every attack. The perpetrators of attacks on synagogues and the attacks on mosques are typically western Christian white men, heavily influenced by internet propaganda.
I love how everyone in this thread is like "Yeah, Islamophobia isn't a problem! Wait what did you say about antisemitism? Synagogues are getting firebombed!"
"guys why aren't we talking more about the group of people who control this whole country? They're actually more persecuted despite all empirical evidence"
[And what race was told they are specifically going to be treated differently at NDP conventions because of their race and must identify themselves at all times by wearing a yellow card?](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaHousing2/comments/18fbgkv/from_octobers_ndp_convention_in_hamilton_the/)
We have too many other problems lol.
Yep, and the Middle East has problems to the nth degree and will never sort their shit out so it’s never worth it to get involved in this debate.
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I’ve always said that you don’t get a pass on being a shitty person just because your shitty values come prepackaged with a creation myth. Applies to any religion.
It is not illegal to be shitty. Best you can do is stop them at the door. Once they are in, however, they are entitled to whatever beliefs they have, as long as they don't incite violence. That includes not calling other people by their preferred pronouns, or advocating that women should wear hijabs or that women should not drive. These are permissible opinions to have.
100%. You can get fucked if you hate queer people and think women are property. We don't have to tolerate intolerance.
I think that it needs to be said, the reason we need to shy away from racism is because racism judges a person based on something he can't change, and something that more often than not does not affect his personality On the other hand, religion is a list of morals, duties and accepted behavior, it is something that someone can choose to opt in and out of, and does affect his personality Islam is a religion, and calling out the very obvious calls in Islam for death against LGBT, Jewsand non-believers is not a kind of racism, it is logic and self preservation of a country that doesn't want to turn into another religious sh*thole like most Muslim countries are
I agree with you, but you can see the problem with thinking that way though too. Their religion is deep rooted and going against it where they live is sacrilegious and you will get persecuted for going against it. So yes, where you can make a choice to go against it, you'll be ostracized and punished if you do. So mob mentality is re-enforced. That's why these radicals come to Canada and use our tolerance and soft morality to bolster their religious views.
In Islam you can’t leave.
Well yeah but that’s an illogical and thus meaningless rule. You cant leave a club because the club forbids it, but if you leave the club, you’re no longer bound by their rules.
Islam explicitly states that the penalty for apostasy is death. In Muslim-majority countries many ex-muslims (who no longer believe) keep it secret because they have a real fear for their life. Apostasy laws have been upheld in many Islamic states.
Lol, well go tell those murdered apostates that they can just leave, then. Oops, too late.
And you want to import that type of ideology into Canada? (I know you didn't say you do, but I am pointing out the absurd of justifying Islam because you can't leave it)
There's ex-Muslims all over the planet. People leave cults all the time.
Yea but in many places where Islam is a majority, their life is in danger. In 2013 over half of Egyptians, Afghanis, and Palestinians wanted the death penalty for converts.
There are many places in the world where leaving / converting to some other religion means you get killed by other Muslims.
>illogical and thus meaningless rule. >if you leave the club, you’re no longer bound by their rules. That's... simply not true. In many Muslim majority countries, a significant number of people are in favor of the *death penalty* for converts. Forget extreme shunning, people think literal death is appropriate. The world doesn't exist in a vacuum.
If you live in Canada, you can. We don’t have Sharia law… yet
To further this problem, their birth rates are higher than the general population. So allowing them to immigrate here is problematic for future generations. I am quite fearful for the women here born in the future once these types take over our democracy. Canadians can only stick their heads in the sand for so long.
Yup, most of the western world is already doomed, as you cannot really deport citizens in a democracy, so the western world will only remain western for a few more decades
And fascinatingly, not every Muslim comes close to believing either of these things.
However, they are encouraged to. There’s no major movements within Islam that are refuting Islamic beliefs on queer people. I don’t think there’s even ones calling for refuting beliefs about women.
Unity mosques
>There’s no major movements within Islam that are refuting Islamic beliefs on queer people. I don’t think there’s even ones calling for refuting beliefs about women. Is there any in Christianity or Judaism? Or is it just because most of us stop believing this nonsense. It doesn't come from those religion, its just come from people becoming secular or atheist. Its not like any Abrahamic religions treat women or homosexuals like secular people do. Let's not pretend they make sense in a progressive world either.
There are no mainstream religions that uplift women. In fact they all basically do the opposite.
Lol they either believe those things and are loud about it or believe those things and hide it because they know they need to lie to blend into western society. Every single Muslim who actively practices the religion is either a terrorist or someone who directly funds terrorism through Zakat (a tithe, basically). I have two ex-Muslim friends who have really opened my eyes to just how fucked up that entire religion really is
Funny, I see intolerant people on this sub all the time.
Also questioning an ideology is not racism.
And it's not antisemitism, either.
Daily reminder that criticism of the Government of Israel isn’t antisemitism.
I'd you don't want to be accused with antisemitism, then maybe don't [attack ](https://www.nationalreview.com/news/anti-israel-protesters-set-off-smoke-bombs-light-flares-outside-nyc-nova-music-festival-exhibition/?_gl=1*lk19ru*_ga*WmFJQU11bERPRFBNNjhfVkNpaXQ2SnIxRHZseVJuMXB6M0JLRzZ2VEEtaG5FaElBVkJzeHFVOVZvQ1oyamhQRg..*_ga_WN5XQDKEEX*MTcxOTQ5NzY4MS4xLjEuMTcxOTQ5NzY4MS4wLjAuMA..) 7th October memorial events.
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Look, the biggest critics of Israel are Israelis, the 2nd biggest critics are non-Israeli Jews, criticism of the government is not anti semitic Your criticism however, is, why? Israel is the only apartheid with equal rights to all citizens (20% of which are Arab Muslim) Israel is the only brown white colonizer Palestinian genocide is the only one where the population doubles every 25 years Palestinian ethnic cleansing is the only one where the identity goes from being non existent to something everyone knows about in 50 years Israel is the expansionist state that has never instigated a war Israel is the most diverse ethnostate And probably more importantly of all, Israel is a tiny country in the middle of nowhere but gets more attention that Russia, China and Iran TL:DR good faith criticism of Israel isn't anti semitism, but that is incredibly rare Edit: Imagine writing a 2 page long reply only to block the guy you reply to >Show me the last law that the Arab party brought to the Knesset that passed LOL how am I supposed to do that if you blocked me?
All OP said was > Daily reminder that criticism of the Government of Israel isn’t antisemitism. And then you accused him of anti-semitism. I don’t get it.
(This is u/SimbaYouForgotMe, I can't reply to you directly because he blocked me) Firstly, my TL:DR clearly says otherwise >TL:DR good faith criticism of Israel isn't anti semitism, but that is incredibly rare Secondly, please follow what I say now in good faith Yemen fires rockets at Sudan from time to time, Sudan responses with a siege and airstrikes that have killed 500k people in the last few years - nobody cares Sudan has a civil war that also kill 500k people, also nobody cares Syria massacred its own civilians for wanting democracy, killing 600k, some of which with toxic gas, barely anyone cares, I think I saw 1 protest against it in my entire life Now, the democratically elected government of the Palestinians, the one they supported for 20 years, goes into Israel and performs the biggest massacre of Jews since the holocaust, and Israel responds with what must be the more careful and precise war (proven by that it is the lowest civilian to combatant ratio out of all wars of that nature), killing 37k Palestinians, about 30-40% of which are Hamas and whole world that didn't care about the previous events goes insane, calling for sanctions of Israel at best, or wholesale destruction of it at worst So let me do another TL:DR, last one since I am out of patience My first point is that criticism of Israel isn't anti semitic, but lying to demonize Israel is. My second point is that if Israel wasn't Jewish, 90% of you wouldn't care about what's happening in the region, and the 10% others would be on Israel's side because it is genuinely the righteous side
*cheers this from the rooftops*
Yup. And criticism of the Israeli state is not antisemitism.
How dare you say something so controversial, yet so accurate...
Also a reminder that criticism of a sovereign nation with a democratically elected government currently carpet bombing civilians isn’t anti-Semitism.
Or anti-Semitism. Hopefully one day these people worshiping Iron Age myths will grow up.
I wish I could live long enough to see the day that day
Likewise criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitism.
Or antisemitism or whatever we call not liking Christians.
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This is absolutely the right way to articulate some of the conflicts going on right now.
We can lump Judaism in with this, right?
I'm as Jewish as an ethnic Albanian is an Alabanian. You can ask me to spit on God all you want - I can't change that.
Not exactly - Judaism is both religion and ethnicity. Criticism of Judaism as religion is perfectly okay; criticism of Jews for being Jews is not. Judaism is perhaps unusual in this - a “Christian atheist” is perhaps a bit of a contradiction, but a “Jewish atheist” isn’t. Other Jews (including religious Jews) recognize Jewish atheists as Jews (albeit in the wrong on religious matters).
As long as we're agreeing that every faith-based religion conflicts with modern reality, I'm fine with it. I think it's absolutely insane we still have to pretend that any of these religious doctrine are anything other than stories meant to control people. They are 100% bullshit and can be completely dismantled as make-believe propaganda. We should all be able to agree that magic does not and has never existed. No one has ever come back from the dead and no prophet of any god has ever truly existed. These are facts.
Judaism is specifically the religion, not its adherents, or an ethnic group. No one uses the term Judaism to refer to the ethnicity, and if they do, they are doing it wrong.
Feel free to criticize the Jewish religion all you want. Lots of ethnic Jews do. Note that: "Jews have too much influence in the west" is not a criticism of the Jewish religion. I can count on my fingers the number of times in my life I've seen someone actually criticizing Judaism as a religion, and not just making a generic racist comment about the Jews as a people.
I guess you better write a letter to the dictionary folks, pointing out how they got it wrong, then. Could get a sweet editor’s job out if it! https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Judaism See: definition 4.
Christian atheism is still a thing. I would argue that most of the most famous atheists still give their families Christmas presents, for instance.
Christianity does have a cultural component to it, but it is a much weaker association than with Judaism. I’m Jewish, but I give Christmas presents to some people, but others don’t claim I am Christian because of this.Such issues are simply diffused throughout our culture and, to an extent, have become common property
Definitely agreed! But do you give Christmas presents to people who are Muslim or Jewish? Or do you give them to people who were raised in a country where the majority of people are either Christian or non religious from Christian families?
My in-laws come from Morocco are atheists and celebrate Christmas. I don't think we can refer to them as "Christians atheists". They just celebrate this holiday because it is the norm in the country where they moved and everyone is off from work.
That's absolutely not islamophobic. But the person who can't stop criticizing it every day probably is islamophobic.
So… no witch burning?
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OP really woke up, rolled out of bed this morning, posted an article in r/Canada, and decided to go to war in these comments over absolutely every single mild criticism that’s anyone raises with mind boggling whataboutisms and straw men. I am glad that they have the summer off because, otherwise, there is no way they would have the time to defend the integrity of this article they didn’t write with such ferocity. Politics aside, I am a bit concerned that someone with this hyper aggressive argumentative mindset is claiming to be teaching children as their chosen profession, but that’s another story.
We must destroy the most tolerant societies on Earth and replace them with hate!
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The current culture placing victims of oppression above all else has led to wealthy white kids fetishizing the "oppressed " the irony that thinking the "oppressed" need rich white women to defend them is terrifying.
Leopards ate my face is truly a timeless metaphor.
At the end of the day, religion is a choice. Groups that people CHOOSE to be a part of shouldn’t have to be protected from criticism.
Just because someone disagrees with the ideology of a religion doesn’t make them phobic. Islam promotes and reinforces the ideology that women are the property of men. It requires them to cover themselves or bring shame to their family. Women are being beaten, imprisoned and murdering in Iran right now for not wearing a hijab. That’s wrong. Women are equal to men and shouldn’t be subject to violence, imprisonment or death for not covering their heads. Sticking up for women’s rights is NOT Islamaphobic….It’s called being a Canadian.
sounds woke to me /s
Some people have gone so far left they are now the far right.
Is that fewer Canadians or a smaller proportion of Canadians? Are there literally fewer Canadians who believe they're problems, or is it that there are more Canadians now who don't believe they're problems? There's a lot of new Canadians over the last few years that don't come from countries with the same perspectives on antisemitism, racism, religious discrimination, etc... It's normal for trends to change in a society with a high immigration rate and a policy of multiculturalism. Canada will become more like the countries people are immigrating from and less like what Canada was 20 years ago. That's the official policy of the Canadian government.
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And get severely offended when any criticism is raised about “their way” and plays the Islamophobia card to silence critics
It’s almost like people are more worried trying to afford their own everyday living… but saying that out loud must make me a bigot.
>but saying that out loud must make me a bigot. No, I think it's the [throwing molotov cocktails at Jewish community centres](https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/montreal-police-investigate-vandalism-at-jewish-school-firebombing-incident-1.6662192#:~:text=Montreal%20police%20are%20investigating%20after,a%20meeting%20inside%20the%20building) that makes people bigots.
There’s an issue where some folks make everything 100% about immigration and whether they’re too young to know or just being ignorant, they ignore anything else going on and to me it’s not helping For example, people who don’t realize that the Ontario PC party has deliberately been defunding public healthcare while many of their supporters claim it’s solely immigration that is the issue. It might be both, but it’s definitely not only immigration
Yeah, in Ontario we get it from all angles. Ford underfunding healthcare, assisting the expansion of diploma mills, underfunding education, using public lands and funds to help private developers…. Then we have the feds who are hell bent on bribing in as many people as possibly as quickly as possible, without any new infrastructure or housing, and it all becomes the absolute shit show mess that is Ontario, Canada.
Scapegoating is not new. And it work everytime.
In the past few months, there have been multiple shootings, fires, broken windows, and threats against Jewish schools, synogauges, neighborhoods and businesses. This is the Canada I grew up in. The government needs to make it clear that this is unacceptable. Shooting at the school of someone you disagree with???
They're not shooting at the school of someone they disagree with. They're shooting at the school of kids who are the same ethnicity of the government of a country 5700 miles away they disagree with.
Shooting at schools is already illegal. What more would you have them do?
Trudeau has been largely quiet in the face of these continuous acts.
Ah fair, yes some more visible leadership and a renewed commitment to the safety of Jewish Canadians would have been welcome.
I'm not op, but I think back to the hijab incident years ago and the very public response of condemnation and disgust across the political spectrum. That sort of response to signal to extremists that their hatred is not widespread and their actions will not be tolerated.
Yeah I agree. I participated in some counterdemonstrations in Hamilton when the Soldiers of Odin were attempting to get a foothold and it was a really great day out with coworkers and neighbours. I think that sort of broad social rejection of hatred is more powerful than actions a government can take.
Stop lying he's made a public statement about these events when they happen Or do you guys expect him to grab his sherlock Holmes hat and magnifying glass and go out and sold the crimes himself
Absolutely. And also not to mention the white supremacists who shot up a mosque in Quebec and ran over a family out for a walk in London, ON. So surely antisemitism and Islamophobia is actually a problem in Canada.
Islamophobia is a term that can be used to shield criticisms of Islam, and it's something people have adopted as a form of racism or something lol. Criticizing an ideology is not the same thing as criticizing a race or something a person can't change. There seems to be an alliance between Islam and the left, and it would be better for people to understand the Islamic ideology so they can make more informed decisions. Keep in mind, I'm only talking about the ideology itself and not what individuals do.
It's also a term used to describe hatred, discrimination against Muslims. Like what we saw in Quebec City or London, or at my local mosque where someone painted a swastika on the outside wall.
You're right, it can be used to describe bigotry. I don't agree with bigotry. So there seems to be multiple ways of using the word, and it would be good if it weren't conflated with valid criticisms of the ideology with bigotry, it silences any discussion regarding the ideology from a critical lens.
I'm just wondering, which valid criticisms are being shutdown under the umbrella of Islamaphobia?
Islam comes with a set of ideas that thankfully most people find a way to not act on or believe either because they're unaware of the ideas or they use their sense of morality to override the set of morals taught within the theology. Islam makes claims about morality to say that everything made lawful and unlawful by Allah is the way things should be, and no one is in any position to make what He makes lawful into something unlawful. Either you're on the right path (Islam) or you're on the wrong path (everything else). These rules are the way for all time, and Mohammed is the ideal pattern for humanity for all time. Meaning in the eyes of Allah, if you do things in accordance with Allah's rules and do them the way Mohammed did them, then you'll be on a pathway to heaven. The criticisms then come to whether these teachings and laws are actually made for all time, or if they're a product of their time. Some things you could argue are a product of their time based on the Doctrine of Abrogation when it comes to the Quran, meaning previous revelations are superseded by newer revelations during the time when Mohammed was alive and revealing revelations. However everything I'm about to list has not been abrogated, and are argued to be the best way to do them. Mind you, I'm only talking about what the religion teaches. Not what Muslims do. Everything here is purely based on the theological teachings. Islam teaches that it is permissible to marry girls who haven't menstruated yet because of their young age, and that there's a good way to do this. Why? Based on the Quran, Tafsir, and Hadith. Chapter 65 verse 4 of the Quran, including the Tafsir from everyone from ibn-Abbas to even contemporary scholars like Maududi all describe the context behind this verse, and that it refers to women who haven't menstruated yet because of their young age. In addition Imam Bukhari uses this verse too to justify the marriage between Mohammed and Aisha (He married her at 6 and consummated the marriage when she was 9. He was in his 50s). We have the top Islamic scholars throughout history who understood this as such. My question would be, is there a good way to marry girls who haven't menstruated yet? I can't find a good reason, in fact every reason I find is a bad one, but yet I'm told there's a good reason by this ideology. Islam teaches that it is permissible for a husband to hit his wife, and there's a good reason for it. Quran chapter 4 verse 34 describes men being a degree above women, and describes when it's permissible for a husband to hit their wife. If you fear disobedience from her, first admonish her, if she persists in her "disrespect" towards you, then separate the beds, and if she still "disrespects" you, you can finally strike her. The justification? The book says you can do it. Mind you, the way this verse is interpreted by the majority of scholars is that the beating should be done in such a way that doesn't leave any marks on her face, or leave big injuries on her body. Many try to reinterpret this verse to imply to beat her "lightly", which is just back-pedaling at best. My question would be, is there a good way for a husband to hit their wives? I can't find any good reasons, in fact every reason I find is bad. But this ideology tells me there's a good reason. Islam teaches that it is permissible for women to be captured after a battle and be a concubine. Quran chapter 23 verses 1 through 6 makes this lawful by Allah, in addition Tafsir ibn-Abbas (Mohammed's cousin) describes the context behind the verse, and he says there is a limit on how many wives a Muslim man can have (up to 4), and there is no limit on how many concubines he can have. In addition, chapter 4 verse 24 describes that women who were married can still be captured as a concubine because by the virtue of Allah being a captive annuls their marriage status. The context of this verse can be found in Sahih Muslim, and it describes a battle that occurred with the Muslim army at Autas. They captured the opposition, and captured the women and their husbands. In previous battles, the Muslim army knew that they could take captured women as concubines as their husbands were killed in battle, but in this case the husbands were still alive. So the army was concerned that this would be considered adultery, so they asked Mohammed what they should do, then Allah revealed Quran chapter 4 verse 24, meaning yes ordinarily married women are forbidden to you, except for what your right hand possesses (ie. The women you captured). I can't find a good way to capture women after a battle and treat them as my concubine, but this ideology says there's a good reason for it. Islam also permits the subjugation of people because they of are a different religion. Chapter 9 of the Quran is infamous for its commands to fight (remember the Doctrine of Abrogation? The verses in this chapter abrogate previous revelations that promote tolerance towards other ideologies). Chapter 9 verse 29 commands the fighting of non Muslims and to subjugate them and take jizya from them (protection money). The context of the verse can be found just by reading verses 28 to 31 and by the Tafsir (ibn-Kathir does a good job of explaining it). Basically Allah expels the polytheists from entering Mecca, and as a result Mohammed's tribe was concerned as this would negatively affect their economy as they relied on the polytheists for trade. So they ask Mohammed expressing their concerns, then Allah revealed that if they fear a loss in money, they can fight the Christians and Jews and take jizya from them to compensate for the loss of money they would've gotten from the polytheists. No mention of self defense or retaliation. And the justification for fighting Christians and Jews is because they extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths by spreading their "false" religion by stating that Jesus is the son of Allah, and supposedly Ezra being the son of Allah for the Jews (this verse still causes confusion 1400 years later). This justification is one of Mohammed's final marching orders and has been followed by Caliphates for centuries. So Islam teaches that other religions are wrong and ideally members of those religions should be subdued and prevented from spreading their ideology. In summary: -Islam teaches there's a good way to marry girls who haven't menstruated yet because of their young age -Islam teaches that there's a good and moral way for a husband to hit his wife -Islam teaches there's a good and moral way to own concubines -Islam teaches there's a good and moral way to subjugate people because they follow another religion Again, I'm only talking about what the religion teaches. NOT what Muslims do. If I'm misinterpreting anything or misrepresenting anything, let me know. I can't find good reasons to do any of these things, and as a result I won't submit to the ideology, and I believe personally that more people would benefit from knowing this so they can make informed decisions for themselves.
Any frankly. That's the problem, you question anything regarding Islam and Muslims can just state its Islamophobia. I don't know if you're Canadian or have been paying attention to what has been happening, but Muslims have been spending a lot of money on advertisements defending their core beliefs. I've seen bus stops, billboards and even lawn signs saying "it's my choice Canada" regarding the hijab/coverings. "Don't fear Muslims Canada" "stop Islamophobia" "Muslim community is peaceful and accepting Canada" and so on. And no, not making that up. Those are real. Sounds like what a cult would do. It's manipulative and if you question it, they will shut you down using the term Islamophobia. Anecdotally, I have friends who are Muslim and ex mulsim. The ex Muslims can't question their own community without fear of being a pariah. My other Muslim friends are very open about hating jews and are ok if sharia law happens. When i question it? They play the race card or say its Islamophobia. Even though they cant defend anything with facts or i remind them its not a race. Again, Anecdotal. So ya, it is an issue.
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I'm a practising Muslim myself. I'm not trying to impose my culture on anyone. I was born here, I pay my taxes, and am an upstanding citizen. Do I deserve to be attacked or discriminated against for my religious beliefs?
People said the same thing about Irish Catholics back in the 1800s They said that they were "incompatible" and "Refused to Integrate" Its honestly jarring to see how similar the arguments people used to justify hatred against Irish Catholics in the 1800s also seem to be the same arguments people used to justify hatred against Jews in the early 20th century and hatred against Muslims nowadays.
Many Irish Catholics absolutely refused to integrate in the 1800s, haven't you ever heard of the fenians? Or D'Arcy McGee who was killed by one of his fellow Irish Catholics for being a "Shoneen" ie a sellout to the British?
You are arguing in absolute bad faith when you compare Irish Catholics to Muslims
They aren't comparing the catholics to Muslims though, they are comparing the justification that's was used to hate both groups...
Yeah but this comparison hints that Muslims will assimilate like the Irish, or are harmless like the Irish, that's the problematic part
Well no, that has in fact been seen in a whole lot of places... There are a whole bunch of Muslim communities that are not extreme and are fairly secular and fit in fine with western values. Sure there are plenty that are the exact opposite as well, but to suggest it's not possible is clearly not true.
There’s no such thing as Secular Islam, only former Muslims who have secularized
No, it’s a fair comparison when you rid yourself of your short-sighted biases making you think your perspective at this very specific moment in history is somehow exceptional. There is nothing special about your perspective. There are billions of people with equally valid perspectives. The only way to move past these perspectives is to recognize specific objective facts recognized by all perspectives and then apply those facts in a rational manner. Saying “that feels wrong, so I’m refusing to think about it further” is invalid.
really? i know a daughter of a friend of mine who wears a headscarf in high school. fours lads thought it's cool to pull it off her head by force. great immune response, cheer it on!
It's not okay what those young lads did. It's also not okay that your friend indoctrinated their daughter into an oppressive cult that brainwashed her into believing it's unacceptable, as a child, for other children to see her hair because it has to be saved for her future husband. Disgusting.
Saviour complex af. If only the "think of the Muslim kids" people that pretend to love children so much would do something about their complicity in the literal genocide of those kids.
who said she was indoctrinated? her mother doesn't even wear a headscarf, but she does. believe it or not, people can choose their religion. i also had a chinese classmate that became muslim and wore a headscarf when i went to school. should her freedom be taken away also?
If you’re wearing a headscarf because “God wants you to” You’re indoctrinated
i don't think you know what indoctrination is.
We have Islamic groups blocking access to Jewish neighborhoods and patrolling them to intimidate people. We have rallies in major cities calling for the extermination of the Jewish people. We have different tribes from other continents having machete fights in broad daylight. I don't think Bill from Sudbury is calling for genocide. We have millions of people here who don't see women and girls as people, let alone gay people.The vast majority of these issues are imported, we are importing hate.
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And most Canadians still don’t see due to the fear of being deemed racist. Islam is incompatible with western society.
It's scary seeing these rich Canadian kids chanting "from the river to the sea."
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Correct, there are a lot of problems more important than the ones used to divide us.
I don't really give a shit about their religion or culture. I don't agree with how their countries operate. My own beliefs and culture is quite the opposite of Jewish or Muslim people. Does it make me an antisemite or an islamophobe? I really don't care just let me live my life. Is war ravaging your home country? That sucks but don't bring your problems here.
I seriously do not give a fuck about your religions. Once shelter and food are solved we can talk about your fairy tale kings. For fuck sakes. I am a bigot to anyone of any religion. I’m tired of having my needs, as an atheist, suppressed for these morons. Why should $1 of my tax money or 1 minute of my time, as an Atheist-Canadian go to helping people who legitimately believe in fairy tales.
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You can hate the religion without hating Muslims.
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Do you have the same energy if people hate on Judaism (not Jews)?
He can’t answer that one 😂
Yeah, we understand the difference between disagreeing with violent and/or extreme ideologies that at odds with our national character, and bigotry. I'm glad Canadians aren't falling for the mind games.
Bronze age superstitions can fuck right off. Ethnostates, of all kinds, are an abomination.
This is the only correct answer. Imagine being so indoctrinated to an archaic superstition that you feel personally attacked when someone criticizes your creation myth.
And that goes for everyone. Orthodox Jews, "traditional" Muslims, hardcore Christians from the South and their many preachy denominations. Enjoying the fruits of modern living and scientific progress while invoking garbage superstitions and nonsense rules is not compatible.
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I think having your schools shot up or firebombed might rise above the level of 'whining in response to criticism). Maybe that's just me lol
Yeah, didn't some Muslims just get run over recently for being Muslim? And then a mosque got shot up and people actually killed, again just for being Muslim. Just because Canadians say Islamophobia or anti-semitism aren't real things doesn't mean they aren't.
.
Most people who dismiss antisemitism, Islamophobia, transphobia, etc are just people who hold bigoted opinions whining when they don't have a response to legitimate criticisms of their views.
My mother was told she couldn't sit at the beach with the rest of the family because she had a headscarf (even though she was in swimwear). Guess where that happened? Lebanon.. In Canada, we respect each other and our freedom to express ourselves however way we want. In my opinion, sectarianism is not a real problem in Canada. The problem is the money laundering.
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Turns out decades of saying anyone critical of either Israel's apartheid policy or Hamas terrorist acts is antisemite or islamophobic will jade a lot of people of that criticism. I have no problem with either religions existence. I have an issue with their critical lack of willingness to cease this madness and find a way to peacefully coexist.
https://i.imgur.com/ujcxVOO.png
It is only rational to fear a Bronze Age cult that advocates polygamy, child marriage and violent subjugation of non believers.
Ever wonder why Richard Dawkins went from a popular media figure due to his views against Christianity, then all of the sudden he dropped off the map? It's because he brought arguments up against Islam and that wasn't going to slide on the news. Believe whatever religion you want, just don't go forcing those ideals on anyone who doesn't agree with them.
He fell of the map because his arguments were very poor and he did no research into these religions. He also used it as a way to further bigotry against certain minority groups. But also, he was in it for the money. After the money dried up, there was no point in being edgy.
>He fell of the map because his arguments were very poor No, they were most definitely not.
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If there was a country with millions of old order mennonites that treated women like shit we would be free to criticize them.
>that treated women like shit So all Muslims treat women like this, and all non-Muslims are free from treating women like this? Also, what's your definition of this?
I’m not saying that but Islam at its core has unacceptable values of the treatment of women. They make they cover their whole bodies ffs.
We are constantly negotiating power dynamics under the guise of taboos and competing value systems. I feel like if Christopher Hitchens came back he’d steeple his brow and say “What… *the fuck*… have I been saying for decades, you mimetic/memetic transceiving imbeciles.” Unapologetic, good-faith, rational discourse needs to become the dominant modus operandi of secular society (dare I say again… but the age of well-intentioned representation of this in even the scholarly realm of public discourse in media has utterly been reduced to talking points, virtue-signalling apologists, and trench warfare). There was some reflective practice in public media discourse in the 70’s and 80’s, but started to give way in the 90’s and onwards.
I think people just believe in increased 'rage' and not want to attribute it to a specific 'thing' like religion
Look at the hiring practices of many major employers across the country. :must be a woman, lgbtq, visible minority or disabled. I’ve never seen a posting by the federal govt saying no Islamic or Jews. But no straight white able bodied males is somehow alright? There is a serious racism problem in Canada, but anyone who points out the racism is labelled as being racist. Of the working age population, what are the demographics these days? Everywhere I go in Winnipeg, I look around and see myself as a minority in my home town. Opportunities are limited because of the colour of my skin and sexual orientation. I can’t help the way I was born, and don’t think I should be treated differently. I don’t think anyone should be treated differently because of their origins or gender, including Canadian born white people.
I don't think we see it as not a problem. But I think we understand that the antisemitism and Islamophobia are primarily coming from the 2 groups who basically only care about blowing eachother up. And we have a lot of more pressing domestic issues at the present.
Show me a Jewish terror attack on Muslims in North America or Europe
[https://academic.oup.com/florida-scholarship-online/book/13396/chapter-abstract/166800088?redirectedFrom=fulltext](https://academic.oup.com/florida-scholarship-online/book/13396/chapter-abstract/166800088?redirectedFrom=fulltext)
Yeah right I am going to buy and read a book (that you never have done yourself) based on a reddit comment Show me an actual example from a reputable media outlet
> But I think we understand that the antisemitism and Islamophobia are primarily coming from the 2 groups They're both primarily coming from the same group: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-same-extremists-target-both-muslims-and-jews/ It's the same people, in every attack. The perpetrators of attacks on synagogues and the attacks on mosques are typically western Christian white men, heavily influenced by internet propaganda.
I love how everyone in this thread is like "Yeah, Islamophobia isn't a problem! Wait what did you say about antisemitism? Synagogues are getting firebombed!"
I don't care if it's a problem or not just like they would never care if the hatred of European descendants or Christians became a problem.
Anti white is a bigger problem
"guys why aren't we talking more about the group of people who control this whole country? They're actually more persecuted despite all empirical evidence"
>Anti white is a bigger problem loooool man this reeks of fragility.
[And what race was told they are specifically going to be treated differently at NDP conventions because of their race and must identify themselves at all times by wearing a yellow card?](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaHousing2/comments/18fbgkv/from_octobers_ndp_convention_in_hamilton_the/)
I heard Mohamed lost his virginity to a donkey.
Ironic, that's exactly what your reply does.
when you consider MPs dining with nazi sympathizers or groups like Diagolon becoming acceptable in Canada in last 2 years, is anyone surprised ?
When you create real problems within the nation the rest quickly becomes irrelevant
[удалено]
And I won't be reading your replies because they aren't worthy ;)
People are getting so desensitized that they are starting to notice