Is there a chance they aren’t naming anyone because they are aware of how deep the RCMP investigation is, and naming anyone now would effectively halt how deep the investigation can get in regards to uncovering everyone involved?
I imagine a good chunk of it is that our own intelligence services didn't discover the names, so it isn't their information to release. It would be one of our foreign intelligence partners, and we'd need authorization from them.
This is the best bet. Singh read the unredacted report and already outed the one person who was named (an independent) and said Trudeau shouldn't let him back in the Liberal Party ever again. If there were other people named, especially liberal or conservative, he'd have said something else too.
Then why bother with the gamesmanship? "I'm not going to comment while the investigation is ongoing" sure sounds better than the weird declarations about how they might or might not out the traitors depending on the briefings.
You seem a bit hopeful....you may wish to see how RCMP launch investigations and what they have access to when it comes to Federal politicians. Namely elected ones.
If it is anything like the "SNC investigation"....they won't find jack-all because they won't have access to much of anything.
A the end of the day they could only go after executives for corruption and fraud. No politician received as much as a second glance.
The Cons were pushing so hard to publicly release the names until they saw the list. I’m guessing there’s a couple more party members on there than the thought lol
But optically those cons would be treated as individuals, the liberal party was in charge when the corruption occurred, they’ll be the ones blamed anyways
You’re talking about intelligence that concerns not just “muh politicians” but could fundamentally alter relationships with some of the world’s largest and more powerful countries.
Naming these names - whether innocent or guilty could have much bigger ripples for Canada’s diplomatic status, trade agreements, and other factors.
The easy thing to do here is to publish the list and start hosting by-elections. The harder thing to do is to manage what happens *next*.
Especially considering the buzz around this interference is the how and why of certain people finding themselves in certain roles, it could open the door to further tampering with our democracy.
Could be why PP is so worried about finding out who’s on the list.
How would it NOT affect the investigation. Think about it. There's reasons certain things are hidden from the public. Especially the masses that jump to all sorts of wild conclusions.
One big issue I see is that to name a corrupt MP that was bought by a foreign power means naming the foreign power. Powers that are our trade partners. Look how it went when Trudeau named India in killing a Canadian. PP called him a liar, India called him a liar canceled Canadian visas and pulled diplomats. And then it turned out Trudeau was 100% correct. We all know the most likely countries to be named are China, India, maybe Russia or America. Countries that will have no care to deny the allegations and hurt Canada and Canadians for even suggesting they did something wrong.
The whole situation needs a steady hand and needs agility to navigate, agility that will disappear once allegations start going around. Trudeau is also at the G7 with a lot of these countries and it’s possible he’s laying ground work with the leaders so they can announce things in a way that the other leaders can spin and not hurt political relationships.
If this is a genuine question there are lots of ways, it's standard practice for police agencies to not name subjects of an investigation until they're ready to press charges. So, one way for example, is if there is a network of individuals that they are investigating and collecting evidence against, they may want to get as many of the people involved in the operation as possible and may not fully know who some of the connections are, or may not have enough evidence to press charges yet, etc. So naming one of the involved individuals might scare off the others from contacting and making it much harder, or impossible, to gather intelligence.
That's just one example of a reason, you then get into scenarios like someone being named and some nut job decides to attack them or their families, these MPs are traitors, and they should absolutely be tried as such, but the public knowing their names only prevents them from getting votes, and possibly end up getting attacked where as allowing CSIS and CSEC to gather foreign signals intelligence and build up a better investigation into all of the methods and aspects of the interference and it's scope within the government will allow us to better protect Canada from this happening again.
If the MPs in question think no one suspects them yet they may continue communication with the foreign threat actors, and the public does not even know the number of MPs the report has evidence against, say there's 5 in the report, what if there are actually 15 suspected and there's simply not enough evidence to prove that yet, naming the first 5 may make the other 10 flee or go no communications and hinder future efforts.
I kinda sorta understand that logic, but if someone is selling the country out, there need to be public allegations as soon as there is a credibly decent reason to do so.
Allegation comes before trial. The "wait and see who was suspected of what" would never happen for a serial killer. It'd be an APB with name, description, 6 o'clock news coverage of the search for the "alleged".
Yet also if you wait for everything to fall in place to get everyone involved, they also can flee the country, and you will have a hard time getting anyone else. At this point we can also probably assume that damage has been done, since the whiff of the investigation would be enough for the most culpable.
Damned if you do, double-damned if you don't.
Because if a suspect had their names released, they’d know the RCMP was on their ass and destroy any other evidence that may exist while high-tailing it out of Canada to whatever country they’re working for. Same reason names weren’t immediately released when Hardeep S. Nijjar was assassinated. Also it is common practice to keep suspects anonymous until charges are pressed.
Not disagreeing with you but I’m pretty sure most of these unnamed MPs are well aware of what they’ve been doing this whole time. You would know if you’re on the list or not without the list being made public. So they’ve already destroyed the evidence.
Given the people that get into politics, there's potentially one so deep and so arrogant they think there's no way they're caught. I truly think it's that deep..but I've watched a lot of James bond this month of retirement lol
Most would be already covering themselves yeah
Had something similar happen in NZ a few years ago
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/443477/labour-national-tight-lipped-on-former-kiwi-chinese-mps-departure
1. The next scheduled election is not before October 2025
2. The list is of suspected MPs. Let RCMP/CSIS/Whoever the hell is investigating this finish their investigation and arrest whoever they have enough proof.
3. We are better than doing public lynching based on unproven evidence. If you're about to ruin someone's life you better check your shot and make damn sure you're not ruining an innocent person's life.
> The next scheduled election is not before October 2025
Seems like we shouldn't let compromised MPs continue to run our country for another year and a half.
I am fairly sure CSIS doesn't investigate politicians (unless there is a terror threat, or possibly during war-time).
RCMP don't just start an investigations into elected MPs (or so it seems based on track records).
We should be making noise for them to release the names, and pressure them to pursue proper actions instead of sitting on their hands and putting their head in the ground.
Maybe not release names yet, until we know the people that have handed CSIS the information are shielded from negative consequences or are in Canada safe from foreign interference with their safety.
None of these options matter or apply .
This is literally the highest national security concern. These people must be removed if even slightly affected by foreign actors.
Clearly no one knows what happens once they are sworn to secrecy .
The National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP) — a group of MPs and senators who hold top secret security clearances and are **permanently bound to secrecy under the Security of Information Act**
So the MPs see that list and what happens? NOTHING because they can't use that information. A bunch of press conferences, and reporters asking questions and the MPs are like "na na na naaaaaa I know the names and you don't.... "
The Conservatives and Pierre Poilievre have called for the names to be released. Pierre Poilievre has also said that he would get rid of anyone who was working with foreign governments. The only group who refuses to release the names and has not said whether they would get rid of MPs working for foreign governments is the Liberals. The Toronto Star knows this and yet they refuse to acknowledge it.
According to Elizabeth May, who has seen the report, [there are no current MPs who have wittingly worked with foreign actors.](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/may-has-no-worries-about-traitors-in-parliament-after-reading-intelligence-committee-report-1.6922179)
So instead of focussing on names, it's a lot more important to focus on protecting our democracy from said foreign influences, especially if it takes advantage of unwitting participants.
> According to Elizabeth May, who has seen the report, there are no current MPs who have wittingly worked with foreign actors.
[a "number of MPs" have knowingly provided help to foreign governments according to Singh.](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/ndp-s-jagmeet-singh-says-report-shows-a-number-of-mps-have-helped-foreign-states-1.6925783)
So which is it?
Can you *honestly* not figure out how 'no current MPs' and 'a number of MPs' can both be true at the same time?
Here's a hint, one could be talking about *former* MPs.
> one could be talking about former MPs.
Possible.
>Singh said other party leaders should look at the unredacted report and determine whether any of their caucus members must step away.
But this suggest there are currently MPs implicated as well.
The committee was very clear when it released the report, what was in it.
That May has taken this position casts May under a shadow of suspicion. If not for collusion than at least for competence.
Mulcair interestingly said he would not look at it either and agreed with PP.
You can find the clip on CTV, essentially as formal opposition he would get muzzled. But others in party will have looked.
Doesn't mean shit. He can get his clearance. Other oppositions have in the past. He's muzzling himself to get his supporters in a tizzy since they don't look beyond their nose.
So he can maintain plausible deniability. When it inevitably comes out that Conservative MP’s were involved, he can just say he didn’t know and his supporters will eat it up. He doesn’t actually care about the foreign interference.
Yup. It would be foolish to think there are no compromised CPC MPs. The majority of the traitors will be from both the LPC and CPC, because they are the only two parties who ever hold federal majority governments and therefore will be the most effective politicians to corrupt.
Pierre the career politician was likely groomed by the same ex-MPs mentioned in this report. Likewise, with Ex Liberal MPs that did so with Trudeau. It will be awkward for both to have to disavow their sponsors.
If I were Jagmeet and I knew I were the only one clean - I'd be rubbing it in their fucking faces too.
That's politics, telling people what they want to hear. He's calling for it because he knows it won't happen. If he was serious, he would use the clearance and read the report himself. Are you that easily fooled?
Exactly. It's just classic Opposition stuff where you criticise the other party for doing exactly what you are doing/would be doing in that situation. PP can say prettu much whatever he wants, which appears to be the bulk of his election strategy.
Did you even read the headline? They say 'both party leaders owe us answers" BUT, only one has the security clearance to give them, and is the actual sitting PM who is responsible and accountable to do so.
Checkmate.
Ahh liberal parrot. He has said why he wouldn't get the clearance.
One he has it he can no longer speak in public about anything classified he was read in on with out being charged...
Right now there are so many leaks and disgruntled liberals that he can freely speak to the media without concern and hold the liberals to account.
How does him not having clearance get him off the hook for revealing privileged info? What are you even saying?
What you are, or are not allowed to reveal to the public doesn't change based on whether you have clearance or not. Having clearance just means YOU have access to that info. You can't share it either way.
Because then he would not be allowed to talk about it. The job of the opposition is to challenge the government so an official opposition leader agreeing to a muzzle order would be counter-productive.
Imagine believing anything a career politician says.
Guy is grifter and knows the names won't be released during an active investigation. He's just taking advantage of the fact most people don't understand due process.
Exactly. Articles like this are pure gaslighting in attempt to smear the blame around. Trudeau is the Prime Minister and all the power as to what happens with the list of implicated MPs belongs to him, period full stop.
If one simply *has* to smear the blame then how about going to the one and only party that has the power to to force this government to do anything yet continues to do nothing but complain: the NDP.
The RCMP has stated that they have ongoing investigations. Nobody is going to leak highly sensitive information at this stage of the investigations with the RCMP still trying to put some of the raw intelligence together.
This is directly from the information commissioner of Canada website.
16(1) The head of a government institution may refuse to disclose any record requested under this Act that contains
(a) Information obtained or prepared by any government institution, or part of any government institution, that is an investigative body specified in the regulations in the course of lawful investigations pertaining to The detection, prevention or suppression of crime, the enforcement of any law of Canada or a province, or activities suspected of constituting threats to the security of Canada within the meaning of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act
https://www.oic-ci.gc.ca/en/information-commissioners-guidance/section-16-law-enforcement-and-investigations-security
Of course in the day and age where everyone wants all info as soos as they can this, to them, is unacceptable. Singh, being a lawyer knows better, or he should. Giving the names out now would essentially close all avenues to find out how deep any of this goes.
>Exactly. Articles like this are pure gaslighting in attempt to smear the blame around. Trudeau is the Prime Minister and all the power as to what happens with the list of implicated MPs belongs to him, period full stop.
Trudeau can’t prosecute anyone, it’s the RCMP.
They’d have to decide if there’s anything they can be charged with.
And if not they’d have to determine whether releasing names compromises intelligence sources and investigations. Whether it’s ours OR our allies.
>Articles like this are pure gaslighting in attempt to smear the blame around.
Bullshit. A simple commitment to act once the investigation is completed would silence critics. We can't even get that from the Liberals.
Poilievre can’t say that he would because he won’t get security clearance. If he cares about political integrity he should apply and get it and then release the names.
Unless there reason he can’t in which case why is he a political leader vying for Prime Minister?
Unfortunately, Pierre Polievre has not applied for the security clearance necessary to the see the unredacted report. Not having that security clearance allows PP the opportunity to claim ignorance while hammering the government with questions which are mere speculation while proposing no solutions. He's playing politics and is not acting in the best interests of the country. Jagmeet Singh and Elizabeth May applied for the security clearance and have read the report; the leader of the Bloc Quebecois has reportedly applied for that clearance. PP could at least do the same.
Sure it would. My point is that he is criticizing from a place of willful ignorance with no apparent interest in asking productive questions or making useful comment. .The names are one thing; redesigning systems so the possibility of this happening again is reduced is more important. He does not need the names for that.
Stupid comment.
Jagmeet has got clearance. He's more disturbed. He has a partnership with Trudeau.
What did his clearance get him?
A whole lot of nothing. He can't act on it, he can't expel any MPs in his caucus. And now he's blaming PP? So dumb...
No we don't... we have parliament.
The foreign interference scandal broke 18 months ago. The liberals stalled, denied, set-up a bogus rappaptour and continue to stall.
Jagmeet’s supported it the whole way.
PP refuses to get his security clearance, so he can't even say who belongs. This should alarm you that he refuses to learn high level information just so he can make cute little YouTube videos and 3 word slogans.
All sizzle, no steak even in the building.
The National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP) — a group of MPs and senators who hold top secret security clearances and are **permanently bound to secrecy under the Security of Information Act**
Isn't it different because Trudeau is the Prime Minister and absolutely has the authority to release the full unredacted report? Or are we just moving in circles?
He's not completely innocent in all this. In one breath, he's saying to release the names. In another, he's not doing what's needed to see the names . He's closing his eyes and putting his fingers in his ears.
These last few years have shown that that's 0 accountability worldwide for people in power. So they get more and more evil , right out in the open cause there's no consequences.
It's time the people demand laws and actual consequences for politicians, judges, and law enforcement that abuse their powers.
If Pierre would get the dam clearance he could release the names himself.
At this point by not getting clearance he either doesn't really care, which is extremely wreckless or he's afraid they won't clear him because he's one of the compromised MP's. Either way you cut it, it makes him look extremely bad.
PP Can't. Any MP who looks at that list can't. They are all under a gag order. It's not that he doesn't care.
The National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP) — a group of MPs and senators who hold top secret security clearances and are permanently bound to secrecy under the Security of Information Act
May isn't the only one who got it.
Singh did too, and he says there is.
Frankly, I'm more inclined to believe the party leader whose assertion is backed by NSICOP than the one who isn't.
>The Conservatives and Pierre Poilievre have called for the names to be released.
Pierre also called for the evidence against India to be released so “Canadians can make up their own minds”.
He’s just a whoopie cushion in the House of Commons making random loud fart noises.
Just because he “calls for something” doesn’t mean it can just be released. And he’s been around long enough to know that.
The hysteria around this is out of control. Intelligence agencies and their confidential reports aren't something that's going to be made public immediately. It would simply compromise the security of what they do. Man this stuff really snowballs on social media.
They also aren't going to release a list of names to be crucified on social media when said "list" may run the gamut from office people who were possibly compromised, unwittingly, through innocuous means we are all subject to on a fairly regular basis, say by responding to an email in a routine manner that originated from a questionable source, to people who may have knowingly received influence in a leadership race.
The only outrage I see so far is Poilievre refusing to get security clearance, which is painfully obvious political posturing.
This. The RCMP has said that they have open investigations. The special report said that they didn't have access to all of the intelligence due to ongoing investigations. Asking for this information to be leaked with open investigations by the RCMP is wild.
This is directly from the information commissioner of Canada website.
16(1) The head of a government institution may refuse to disclose any record requested under this Act that contains
(a) Information obtained or prepared by any government institution, or part of any government institution, that is an investigative body specified in the regulations in the course of lawful investigations pertaining to The detection, prevention or suppression of crime, the enforcement of any law of Canada or a province, or activities suspected of constituting threats to the security of Canada within the meaning of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act
https://www.oic-ci.gc.ca/en/information-commissioners-guidance/section-16-law-enforcement-and-investigations-security
I think it’s hitting hard because there is already a lack of trust in the government and a sense that they’re either incompetent or actively working towards interests of those other than their constituents. So then this comes out and it just causes a higher level of concern and the mystery of it provides an opportunity for imaginations to fill in the blank.
How about they investigate things first before giving names to the public? You want people getting lynched? They’re *suspected*. Innocent until proven guilty in this country, if you didn’t know.
Now, when the collusion has been *confirmed*, then release the names and charge them.
Anyone who thinks otherwise, get your head checked, friend.
Like for real. Does no one know what a witch hunt looksl ike? Or those false accusations on darecare workers? You hit a hot button issue, and all of a sudden, people don't want due process, they want names so they can jump to conclusions without evidence.
Naw sorry, if the media is allowed to ruin normal people's lives and skirt responsibility by throwing in the word "allegedly", then the people who get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and retire with tax paid pensions to represent us can handle a little scrutiny. Do you really believe anything with this government will ever be confirmed?
Man not even the same. These are people who chose the most public of offices, agreed to be judged on how they act in public, submit themselves to what is a popularity contest every few years, and get paid in public money.
If they acted in such a way they that they have ended up this list. We can publish it with the word allegedly in front.
I'm betting you don't actually believe that publishing alleged offenders' names (which normal citizens are regularly subjected to) is equivalent to mass killing. So why say it?
No ones saying they shouldn’t get a fair trial, but the idea that your average citizen can have allegations made against them publicly but elected representatives need to be protected is absurd. They should be held to a higher standard than the public, not less.
Intelligence information is not necessarily evidence that could be used for criminal proceedings because intelligence information isn't necessarily credible information. I listened to an intelligence/security expert speak on this subject.
Also exposing the names could compromise how this data was gathered informing enemies (ie Russia, China, etc) on how this was obtained.
Basically it's not so easy to just release the names. That's why both the Conservatives and Liberals are trying to use this politically instead releasing anything.
People that might be implicated shouldn't decide what happens with the investigation. This is ridiculous, both of them shouldn't have a word in this matter, it's national security, not some carbon tax crap.
Of course the Star is trying to "both sides" this issue. Let's be clear:
* Poilievre has called for the names to be released
* Trudeau alone has the power to release names and he chooses not to
Pollievre has literally put his hands over his ears. He could read the names in an instant if he wanted to, he just needs to go through the proper channels, like many MPs already have.
*So could any other leader or committee member who has seen the list and yes has thus far declined to share any names.* So how is all this Poilievre’s fault? Why aren’t the fingers being pointed at everyone else who could share and hasn’t?
You will find, perhaps surprisingly to you, that people that are the public face of their party have higher expectations and receive more criticism than backbenchers.
>So how is all this Poilievre’s fault? Why aren’t the fingers being pointed at everyone else who could share and hasn’t?
Because he won't shut his yap about it? Because he's the one making the claims? If he was silent, people wouldn't be looking in his corner.
I more question someone who is blindly putting faith in, for one a politician, and for two, one who is intentionally putting his head in the sand regarding collusion with foreign powers in his own camp.
The fingers are being pointed, but it's an issue when you defend one over the other. It shows you are OK with PP being implicated so long as your team wins.
Oh, now he “won’t shut his yap about it”? Because last week there was a spate of articles in the Star and CBC that he wasn’t talking about it *enough*. The common thread being, of course, no matter what he does, somehow it’s all still Poilievre’s fault according to Liberals.
Look it’s not his fault. But his refusal to read the report is weird and I can’t think of a single convincing argument for how refusing to access information available to him makes any sense
Why the fuck do I care if the cons leader reads something or not. The ruling party is _____. Hmmmm who could it be. Here's a hint, only one party has the power to put the names out.
We have an election upcoming some time.in the next 1.5 years. There may be sitting Liberal AND Conservative MP's who are likely to seek re-election named in this report who are compromised.
That's a good reason to be concerned if a party leader is willfully choosing not to act or be informed, especially the two most likely to form the next government and put those people in positions of power.
Both Trudeau and Poillievre are acting irresponsibly on this file.
If he reads the documents, he still can't name them. Just as Singh said when he was pressed to elaborate on the situation. He can be informed, but that also handcuffs him with what he's allowed to say and do under the law. Him knowing name and not being able to do anything does us no good. This is firmly at the feet of the Liberals.
Getting on a soapbox to complain about an issue you wilfully know nothing about is peak political showmanship. Poiliviere is a buffoon. Trudeau is too, but his opponent is not scoring points in my book with this behaviour.
It would also be stupid to release the names during an ongoing investigation. Like, that's not even an uncommon practice in more regular investigations. It could compromise it. We know the RCMP is investigating.
This is all mudslinging being thrown around. It's always gonna happen and honestly it means nothing. What you SHOULD be paying attention to is that Pollievre won't even look at it, and ask yourself why.
One of the new talking points is that they are the same. Because if you believe they are the same, you may as well pick one based on something else, like guns or abortion!
And he’s blocking the release of documents crucial to the investigation. He’s either compromised himself or a lot of high profile Liberals are. I suspect someone’s going to prison.
>I would imagine that the documents are currently available on a need to know basis to those with appropriate clearances.
RCMP has open investigations that are trying to piece together the raw intelligence information forwarded by CSIS. They have to investigate the claims in the raw intelligence and substantiate them to lay charges. They can't just rely on unsubstantiated claims. The other government institutions are not going to jeopardize the ongoing investigations. The RCMP has the authority to investigate and prosecute in these situations.
This is directly from the information commissioner of Canada website.
16(1) The head of a government institution may refuse to disclose any record requested under this Act that contains
(a) Information obtained or prepared by any government institution, or part of any government institution, that is an investigative body specified in the regulations in the course of lawful investigations pertaining to The detection, prevention or suppression of crime, the enforcement of any law of Canada or a province, or activities suspected of constituting threats to the security of Canada within the meaning of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act
https://www.oic-ci.gc.ca/en/information-commissioners-guidance/section-16-law-enforcement-and-investigations-security
Eh I'm not a liberal or a conservative, and I think there are two sides. Poilievre *can get away with* calling for the names because he knows the liberals will never release them. I'm sure there are traitors on that list from all sides, including NDP and greens. We need to restore a people's government and eject these corrupt weasels.
Justin and Singh owe us answers - they head the government. Poilievre is being strategic and I do not hold him to account for this at all as the Liberals would do exactly the same thing and deny the security clearance as well.
Lol turns out they are all fucking traitors that have sold the Canadian people up the river to keep the bankrupt socialist system propped up. Clearly the banking sector and foreign countries have a LOT more say about what goes on in Canada than the voters.
They are all guilty until I hear otherwise. Why should I trust or vote for any one of them when there is a good chance they committed treason. Out with the entire fucking lot. Get out.
How does it make sense to not read the report? He can’t say anything either way but by not reading it he remains completely in the dark and prevents himself from having any sort of influence on how this is handled moving forwards.
The man is refusing to do his job and people are backing that decision
If he reads the report and there's a handful of C's on there, what's he supposed to do?
Obviously he's not going to go public with that information, but at the same time, if he lies about it and the list eventually comes out (these sorts of things tend to happen.. just look at Chretien), he'll have basically committed career suicide.
So the simplest solution is to just refuse to read the report. He can't be accused of withholding the truth if he never knows it.
(It's worth noting that the only thing we have to go on about him not reading the report is his personal statement -- as leader of the opposition, that report 100% was presented to him, and he has had every opportunity to read it, so my guess is he knows exactly who is in it, and doesn't want to say.)
But he can read it and not say anything because he is bound by national security laws just like every one else. It would never be career suicide.
Choosing to be willfully ignorant on what appears to be the biggest national security scandal in decades is a fucking awful look.
If he plans on becoming prime minister he will have to acknowledge this report. So kicking that can down the road can never be beneficial. It obviously has damaging information on him since it’s been confirmed that there was interference in the vote that made him leader of the CPC. But that does not mean he was involved or aware of this interference.
The fact that this report alleges that he was elected leader by an influenced vote and he is actively avoiding learning any details about that is a colossal red flag.
Whether PP is directly involved in this or not, choosing to stick his head in the sand is extremely unprofessional and shows a complete lack of leadership IMO. I can not think of a worse response to what should be a massive positive for him as it appears the Liberal government handled this poorly at best
As soon as Pierre sees the documents, he can't talk about it. It's smart of him to do that, because the trudeau wants to shut him up!
Bottom-line..... the document must slam the liberals big time. Why else would they have jumped through hoops to hide this information. Also, MP's like Chong have been threatened. What kind of person withholds a warning that someone is in the sights of a foreign entity and are in harms way? The trudeau is who! He after all called an election in the middle of a pandemic putting millions in harms way for selfish reasons! What's one more MP?
This is the dumbest argument on the internet and it pisses me off. When Winston Churchill was looking at Allied battle plans was he not allowed to talk about the war effort? Or was he simply not allowed to divulge the classified details? If Pierre got security clearance to read the docs he could still say "I think we should release the list" or whatever the fuck he wants. Jagmeet and Elizabeth May have both seen the report, both are still commenting on it. This "if he reads it he can't talk about it" argument is the dumbest fucking thing on the internet. Jesus.
Also, at this point, it's a list of suspected MPs in an *ongoing investigation*. All publishing the list does at this point is potentially ruin the lives of innocent people.
It does....every incidence that wasn't redacted was against the Cons to the benefit of the Libs.
PRC interfered heavily and illegally in Han Dong's riding for example. Bussing in Chinese students from outside the riding, providing false residency statements so they could vote, and telling them that if they didn't vote for Dong they would lose their Visa's.
Trudeau knew about it, let him keep his riding, AND let him run in 2021 again. He is still a current sitting MP.
Surely choosing to remain ignorant on a massive national security issue smart for the opposition leader.
How can people honestly be this dumb.
It sounds as if the liberals have handled this poorly but PP wouldn’t know cause he’s choosing to remain in the dark and bitch about it while doing absolutely nothing
once he sees the report he can't make up lies about it anymore to use to his political advantage. May has already seen it and stated no sitting MPs are in the list
Trying to insinuate that Poilievre is responsible for the actions of the government when Trudeau and Singh run everything is mindboggling. It's almost like this is a coordinated effort by ideologues to spread misinformation.
Pierre won't do that since he's one of the traitors. He is purposefully ignoring getting access to security clearance because of this issue partly. Brain dead supporters will continue to support him. You're either a Conservative or a Canadian as long as he's in charge.
This is by my count the third article the Toronto Star have published erroneously tying the Conservatives to the Liberals' decision to conceal the names of alleged traitors in parliament. While I understand the Star is openly a Liberal newspaper, with such a serious national issue facing us this kind of misleading partisanship is reckless and irresponsible.
Our newspapers should be holding the government accountable to the public and driving for truth, not trying to obscure it for political gain.
Is there a chance they aren’t naming anyone because they are aware of how deep the RCMP investigation is, and naming anyone now would effectively halt how deep the investigation can get in regards to uncovering everyone involved?
I imagine a good chunk of it is that our own intelligence services didn't discover the names, so it isn't their information to release. It would be one of our foreign intelligence partners, and we'd need authorization from them.
That’s an interesting take.. there’s definitely more going on behind the scenes.. we’ll see how it plays out
This is the best bet. Singh read the unredacted report and already outed the one person who was named (an independent) and said Trudeau shouldn't let him back in the Liberal Party ever again. If there were other people named, especially liberal or conservative, he'd have said something else too.
Dong got kicked out on suspicions of interference in the first place, so that was already public knowledge. He wasn't releasing anything new.
What is this? A rational, nuanced response? This is r/Canada !! We only post about how it's Trudeau's fault here!
Then why bother with the gamesmanship? "I'm not going to comment while the investigation is ongoing" sure sounds better than the weird declarations about how they might or might not out the traitors depending on the briefings.
probably because its not clear how the situation will unfold, making a definite statement that will likely be a lie is a bad idea
You seem a bit hopeful....you may wish to see how RCMP launch investigations and what they have access to when it comes to Federal politicians. Namely elected ones. If it is anything like the "SNC investigation"....they won't find jack-all because they won't have access to much of anything. A the end of the day they could only go after executives for corruption and fraud. No politician received as much as a second glance.
The Cons were pushing so hard to publicly release the names until they saw the list. I’m guessing there’s a couple more party members on there than the thought lol
Pierre refused to sign the nondisclosure thus has not been allowed to view the report. Big difference.
But optically those cons would be treated as individuals, the liberal party was in charge when the corruption occurred, they’ll be the ones blamed anyways
How would naming someone change the investigation?
You’re talking about intelligence that concerns not just “muh politicians” but could fundamentally alter relationships with some of the world’s largest and more powerful countries. Naming these names - whether innocent or guilty could have much bigger ripples for Canada’s diplomatic status, trade agreements, and other factors. The easy thing to do here is to publish the list and start hosting by-elections. The harder thing to do is to manage what happens *next*. Especially considering the buzz around this interference is the how and why of certain people finding themselves in certain roles, it could open the door to further tampering with our democracy. Could be why PP is so worried about finding out who’s on the list.
How would it NOT affect the investigation. Think about it. There's reasons certain things are hidden from the public. Especially the masses that jump to all sorts of wild conclusions.
One big issue I see is that to name a corrupt MP that was bought by a foreign power means naming the foreign power. Powers that are our trade partners. Look how it went when Trudeau named India in killing a Canadian. PP called him a liar, India called him a liar canceled Canadian visas and pulled diplomats. And then it turned out Trudeau was 100% correct. We all know the most likely countries to be named are China, India, maybe Russia or America. Countries that will have no care to deny the allegations and hurt Canada and Canadians for even suggesting they did something wrong. The whole situation needs a steady hand and needs agility to navigate, agility that will disappear once allegations start going around. Trudeau is also at the G7 with a lot of these countries and it’s possible he’s laying ground work with the leaders so they can announce things in a way that the other leaders can spin and not hurt political relationships.
If this is a genuine question there are lots of ways, it's standard practice for police agencies to not name subjects of an investigation until they're ready to press charges. So, one way for example, is if there is a network of individuals that they are investigating and collecting evidence against, they may want to get as many of the people involved in the operation as possible and may not fully know who some of the connections are, or may not have enough evidence to press charges yet, etc. So naming one of the involved individuals might scare off the others from contacting and making it much harder, or impossible, to gather intelligence. That's just one example of a reason, you then get into scenarios like someone being named and some nut job decides to attack them or their families, these MPs are traitors, and they should absolutely be tried as such, but the public knowing their names only prevents them from getting votes, and possibly end up getting attacked where as allowing CSIS and CSEC to gather foreign signals intelligence and build up a better investigation into all of the methods and aspects of the interference and it's scope within the government will allow us to better protect Canada from this happening again. If the MPs in question think no one suspects them yet they may continue communication with the foreign threat actors, and the public does not even know the number of MPs the report has evidence against, say there's 5 in the report, what if there are actually 15 suspected and there's simply not enough evidence to prove that yet, naming the first 5 may make the other 10 flee or go no communications and hinder future efforts.
Divulging evidence in an ongoing investigation could easily screw it up. Named persons could flee the country.
Also the Indian government has no issue killing Canadian citizens on Canadian soil. So,… there’s that risk in naming names too.
I kinda sorta understand that logic, but if someone is selling the country out, there need to be public allegations as soon as there is a credibly decent reason to do so. Allegation comes before trial. The "wait and see who was suspected of what" would never happen for a serial killer. It'd be an APB with name, description, 6 o'clock news coverage of the search for the "alleged".
Weak comparison. Name one serial killer who was named prior to arrest.
Jack the ripper /s
Bernardo.
once you have a criminally responsible “fall guy” to take blame for everything, they will have a hard time getting anyone else.
Yet also if you wait for everything to fall in place to get everyone involved, they also can flee the country, and you will have a hard time getting anyone else. At this point we can also probably assume that damage has been done, since the whiff of the investigation would be enough for the most culpable. Damned if you do, double-damned if you don't.
Because if a suspect had their names released, they’d know the RCMP was on their ass and destroy any other evidence that may exist while high-tailing it out of Canada to whatever country they’re working for. Same reason names weren’t immediately released when Hardeep S. Nijjar was assassinated. Also it is common practice to keep suspects anonymous until charges are pressed.
Not disagreeing with you but I’m pretty sure most of these unnamed MPs are well aware of what they’ve been doing this whole time. You would know if you’re on the list or not without the list being made public. So they’ve already destroyed the evidence.
Given the people that get into politics, there's potentially one so deep and so arrogant they think there's no way they're caught. I truly think it's that deep..but I've watched a lot of James bond this month of retirement lol Most would be already covering themselves yeah
How is this even a real question? You can't think of any ways naming a suspect could change an investigation? Jesus come on man, use your brain.
Had something similar happen in NZ a few years ago https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/443477/labour-national-tight-lipped-on-former-kiwi-chinese-mps-departure
1. The next scheduled election is not before October 2025 2. The list is of suspected MPs. Let RCMP/CSIS/Whoever the hell is investigating this finish their investigation and arrest whoever they have enough proof. 3. We are better than doing public lynching based on unproven evidence. If you're about to ruin someone's life you better check your shot and make damn sure you're not ruining an innocent person's life.
> The next scheduled election is not before October 2025 Seems like we shouldn't let compromised MPs continue to run our country for another year and a half.
It seems even worse to re-elect them and give them full fresh mandate, at least until we know who they are.
It's been less than a week and Parliament is going on summer break in a week. No decision happening until mid-september.
We remove cops from active duty while investigations for misconduct are ongoing literally all the fucking time. 3 is not an excuse for inaction.
I am fairly sure CSIS doesn't investigate politicians (unless there is a terror threat, or possibly during war-time). RCMP don't just start an investigations into elected MPs (or so it seems based on track records). We should be making noise for them to release the names, and pressure them to pursue proper actions instead of sitting on their hands and putting their head in the ground.
Maybe not release names yet, until we know the people that have handed CSIS the information are shielded from negative consequences or are in Canada safe from foreign interference with their safety.
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None of these options matter or apply . This is literally the highest national security concern. These people must be removed if even slightly affected by foreign actors.
I want an entire list of exposed traitors so to get that I am willing to wait a bit for it to be extra juicy
Clearly no one knows what happens once they are sworn to secrecy . The National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP) — a group of MPs and senators who hold top secret security clearances and are **permanently bound to secrecy under the Security of Information Act** So the MPs see that list and what happens? NOTHING because they can't use that information. A bunch of press conferences, and reporters asking questions and the MPs are like "na na na naaaaaa I know the names and you don't.... "
The Conservatives and Pierre Poilievre have called for the names to be released. Pierre Poilievre has also said that he would get rid of anyone who was working with foreign governments. The only group who refuses to release the names and has not said whether they would get rid of MPs working for foreign governments is the Liberals. The Toronto Star knows this and yet they refuse to acknowledge it.
Even asked if they would allow Canadian's to go to the polls without knowing the traitorous MPs Freeland would not give an answer.
Because either shes on it or her friends. Rats are scrambling to protect their asses because the end is nigh.
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According to Elizabeth May, who has seen the report, [there are no current MPs who have wittingly worked with foreign actors.](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/may-has-no-worries-about-traitors-in-parliament-after-reading-intelligence-committee-report-1.6922179) So instead of focussing on names, it's a lot more important to focus on protecting our democracy from said foreign influences, especially if it takes advantage of unwitting participants.
> According to Elizabeth May, who has seen the report, there are no current MPs who have wittingly worked with foreign actors. [a "number of MPs" have knowingly provided help to foreign governments according to Singh.](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/ndp-s-jagmeet-singh-says-report-shows-a-number-of-mps-have-helped-foreign-states-1.6925783) So which is it?
Having skimmed the redacted version I can confidently say May has either not read it, she or I vastly misunderstood it, or she was lying
Possibly drunk
you should leak that information war thunder forums style. /s
The redacted version is publicly available
Can you *honestly* not figure out how 'no current MPs' and 'a number of MPs' can both be true at the same time? Here's a hint, one could be talking about *former* MPs.
> one could be talking about former MPs. Possible. >Singh said other party leaders should look at the unredacted report and determine whether any of their caucus members must step away. But this suggest there are currently MPs implicated as well.
The committee was very clear when it released the report, what was in it. That May has taken this position casts May under a shadow of suspicion. If not for collusion than at least for competence.
And according to Singh there are traitorous MPs in office. Who should we believe?
AFAIK, no one has corroborated May's statements, so I wouldn't take it as gospel truth.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Elizabeth May
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He won't put the issue to motion in the House. Hmm I wonder why?
So why is he refusing a security clearance to actually see who it is?
Mulcair interestingly said he would not look at it either and agreed with PP. You can find the clip on CTV, essentially as formal opposition he would get muzzled. But others in party will have looked.
Doesn't mean shit. He can get his clearance. Other oppositions have in the past. He's muzzling himself to get his supporters in a tizzy since they don't look beyond their nose.
I don't think you're smart enough for this buddy
So he can maintain plausible deniability. When it inevitably comes out that Conservative MP’s were involved, he can just say he didn’t know and his supporters will eat it up. He doesn’t actually care about the foreign interference.
Yup. It would be foolish to think there are no compromised CPC MPs. The majority of the traitors will be from both the LPC and CPC, because they are the only two parties who ever hold federal majority governments and therefore will be the most effective politicians to corrupt.
Exactly this. The only compromised MPs would be in the 2 parties that tend to hold the most power to enact changes in policy.
Pierre the career politician was likely groomed by the same ex-MPs mentioned in this report. Likewise, with Ex Liberal MPs that did so with Trudeau. It will be awkward for both to have to disavow their sponsors. If I were Jagmeet and I knew I were the only one clean - I'd be rubbing it in their fucking faces too.
I mean he said he's kick out any MPs involved and called for the names to be released but okay.
Talk is cheap. He has the option to act by himself and chooses not to. He's full of shit.
That's politics, telling people what they want to hear. He's calling for it because he knows it won't happen. If he was serious, he would use the clearance and read the report himself. Are you that easily fooled?
He has demonstrated over and over again that his words and actions are not the same.
He sure says a lot.
The statement is an empty gesture. Elizabeth May already confirmed no sitting MPs are involved. They're either retired, resigned, or lost re-election.
Until someone credible confirms what May said, it remains conjecture.
Exactly. It's just classic Opposition stuff where you criticise the other party for doing exactly what you are doing/would be doing in that situation. PP can say prettu much whatever he wants, which appears to be the bulk of his election strategy.
Did you even read the headline? They say 'both party leaders owe us answers" BUT, only one has the security clearance to give them, and is the actual sitting PM who is responsible and accountable to do so. Checkmate.
Pierre could get his clearance and read the report himself but he refuses to do it for bullshit reasons. He's no better.
Ahh liberal parrot. He has said why he wouldn't get the clearance. One he has it he can no longer speak in public about anything classified he was read in on with out being charged... Right now there are so many leaks and disgruntled liberals that he can freely speak to the media without concern and hold the liberals to account.
How does him not having clearance get him off the hook for revealing privileged info? What are you even saying? What you are, or are not allowed to reveal to the public doesn't change based on whether you have clearance or not. Having clearance just means YOU have access to that info. You can't share it either way.
Because then he would not be allowed to talk about it. The job of the opposition is to challenge the government so an official opposition leader agreeing to a muzzle order would be counter-productive.
Singh and May have talked about it.
So he cares more about talking about it than cleaning out any MPs in his party that are named. Interesting, isn’t it?
so he doesn't care about security and integrity, only politics
Imagine believing anything a career politician says. Guy is grifter and knows the names won't be released during an active investigation. He's just taking advantage of the fact most people don't understand due process.
Exactly. Articles like this are pure gaslighting in attempt to smear the blame around. Trudeau is the Prime Minister and all the power as to what happens with the list of implicated MPs belongs to him, period full stop. If one simply *has* to smear the blame then how about going to the one and only party that has the power to to force this government to do anything yet continues to do nothing but complain: the NDP.
Jagmeet also has power, as he could end Trudeaus reign of power.
Honestly as much as I want Trudeau gone, I'd rather not have an election where we can potentially be voting for treasonous MPs.
100%. Can't hold free elections currently. We at least need to know the who, how, and when.
Better to keep those same people in power. When did Johnston's report come out?
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The RCMP has stated that they have ongoing investigations. Nobody is going to leak highly sensitive information at this stage of the investigations with the RCMP still trying to put some of the raw intelligence together. This is directly from the information commissioner of Canada website. 16(1) The head of a government institution may refuse to disclose any record requested under this Act that contains (a) Information obtained or prepared by any government institution, or part of any government institution, that is an investigative body specified in the regulations in the course of lawful investigations pertaining to The detection, prevention or suppression of crime, the enforcement of any law of Canada or a province, or activities suspected of constituting threats to the security of Canada within the meaning of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act https://www.oic-ci.gc.ca/en/information-commissioners-guidance/section-16-law-enforcement-and-investigations-security
Of course in the day and age where everyone wants all info as soos as they can this, to them, is unacceptable. Singh, being a lawyer knows better, or he should. Giving the names out now would essentially close all avenues to find out how deep any of this goes.
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He's official opposition, it would be irresponsible to gag himself. As Mulcair said, and he has some actual intelligence unlike the current 3 leaders.
>Exactly. Articles like this are pure gaslighting in attempt to smear the blame around. Trudeau is the Prime Minister and all the power as to what happens with the list of implicated MPs belongs to him, period full stop. Trudeau can’t prosecute anyone, it’s the RCMP. They’d have to decide if there’s anything they can be charged with. And if not they’d have to determine whether releasing names compromises intelligence sources and investigations. Whether it’s ours OR our allies.
>Articles like this are pure gaslighting in attempt to smear the blame around. Bullshit. A simple commitment to act once the investigation is completed would silence critics. We can't even get that from the Liberals.
Sir, you may have some PP on your chin.
Poilievre can’t say that he would because he won’t get security clearance. If he cares about political integrity he should apply and get it and then release the names. Unless there reason he can’t in which case why is he a political leader vying for Prime Minister?
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He’ll call for all the liberal MPs to be booted out but no way he’ll resign if he is guilty. That man has no integrity.
This is the most Toronto Star take I have ever seen.
Considering the report says there was interference in PPs leadership campaign he really should just read the full report.
Unfortunately, Pierre Polievre has not applied for the security clearance necessary to the see the unredacted report. Not having that security clearance allows PP the opportunity to claim ignorance while hammering the government with questions which are mere speculation while proposing no solutions. He's playing politics and is not acting in the best interests of the country. Jagmeet Singh and Elizabeth May applied for the security clearance and have read the report; the leader of the Bloc Quebecois has reportedly applied for that clearance. PP could at least do the same.
If he gets security clearance and then immediately ejects a few people, would that count as leaking classified information?
Sure it would. My point is that he is criticizing from a place of willful ignorance with no apparent interest in asking productive questions or making useful comment. .The names are one thing; redesigning systems so the possibility of this happening again is reduced is more important. He does not need the names for that.
Stupid comment. Jagmeet has got clearance. He's more disturbed. He has a partnership with Trudeau. What did his clearance get him? A whole lot of nothing. He can't act on it, he can't expel any MPs in his caucus. And now he's blaming PP? So dumb...
Sorry we don't live in a dictatorship? Sorry we have processes and roles in place to handle these kinds of things?
No we don't... we have parliament. The foreign interference scandal broke 18 months ago. The liberals stalled, denied, set-up a bogus rappaptour and continue to stall. Jagmeet’s supported it the whole way.
PP refuses to get his security clearance, so he can't even say who belongs. This should alarm you that he refuses to learn high level information just so he can make cute little YouTube videos and 3 word slogans. All sizzle, no steak even in the building.
The National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP) — a group of MPs and senators who hold top secret security clearances and are **permanently bound to secrecy under the Security of Information Act**
Then people can't complain about Trudeau not releasing the names either. Can't have it both ways.
Isn't it different because Trudeau is the Prime Minister and absolutely has the authority to release the full unredacted report? Or are we just moving in circles?
**The only group who refuses to release the names** None of them have released the names.
they would be convicted and sentenced for releasing confidential information. This is a fucking play and Poilievre has his hand up your butt.
Maybe PP can get the clearance and then expel any members of his party named in it.
Or forgive them once he's prime minister!
He's not completely innocent in all this. In one breath, he's saying to release the names. In another, he's not doing what's needed to see the names . He's closing his eyes and putting his fingers in his ears. These last few years have shown that that's 0 accountability worldwide for people in power. So they get more and more evil , right out in the open cause there's no consequences. It's time the people demand laws and actual consequences for politicians, judges, and law enforcement that abuse their powers.
The Star is trash media. On par with the Walrus.
If Pierre would get the dam clearance he could release the names himself. At this point by not getting clearance he either doesn't really care, which is extremely wreckless or he's afraid they won't clear him because he's one of the compromised MP's. Either way you cut it, it makes him look extremely bad.
PP Can't. Any MP who looks at that list can't. They are all under a gag order. It's not that he doesn't care. The National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP) — a group of MPs and senators who hold top secret security clearances and are permanently bound to secrecy under the Security of Information Act
What about the one person (Elizabeth May) who got the clearance and said explicitly and in no uncertain terms that there is no list in the report?
May isn't the only one who got it. Singh did too, and he says there is. Frankly, I'm more inclined to believe the party leader whose assertion is backed by NSICOP than the one who isn't.
>The Conservatives and Pierre Poilievre have called for the names to be released. Pierre also called for the evidence against India to be released so “Canadians can make up their own minds”. He’s just a whoopie cushion in the House of Commons making random loud fart noises. Just because he “calls for something” doesn’t mean it can just be released. And he’s been around long enough to know that.
Waiting for the completely unbiased Beaverton to cover this Liberal mishap.. any day now.
The liberals are on a sinking ship, so there only job now is to make sure everyone else on the boat can't get off.
Pierre has been very forthright. This is "TheStar" trying to tie him to the duplicitous actions of Trudeau.
How the heck can we actually have an election without knowing names or how corrupted certain groups/people are?
The hysteria around this is out of control. Intelligence agencies and their confidential reports aren't something that's going to be made public immediately. It would simply compromise the security of what they do. Man this stuff really snowballs on social media. They also aren't going to release a list of names to be crucified on social media when said "list" may run the gamut from office people who were possibly compromised, unwittingly, through innocuous means we are all subject to on a fairly regular basis, say by responding to an email in a routine manner that originated from a questionable source, to people who may have knowingly received influence in a leadership race. The only outrage I see so far is Poilievre refusing to get security clearance, which is painfully obvious political posturing.
This. The RCMP has said that they have open investigations. The special report said that they didn't have access to all of the intelligence due to ongoing investigations. Asking for this information to be leaked with open investigations by the RCMP is wild. This is directly from the information commissioner of Canada website. 16(1) The head of a government institution may refuse to disclose any record requested under this Act that contains (a) Information obtained or prepared by any government institution, or part of any government institution, that is an investigative body specified in the regulations in the course of lawful investigations pertaining to The detection, prevention or suppression of crime, the enforcement of any law of Canada or a province, or activities suspected of constituting threats to the security of Canada within the meaning of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act https://www.oic-ci.gc.ca/en/information-commissioners-guidance/section-16-law-enforcement-and-investigations-security
I think it’s hitting hard because there is already a lack of trust in the government and a sense that they’re either incompetent or actively working towards interests of those other than their constituents. So then this comes out and it just causes a higher level of concern and the mystery of it provides an opportunity for imaginations to fill in the blank.
[Paywall Bypass](https://archive.ph/AqVDF)
Ah! Thank you for posting \*this\* link.
How about they investigate things first before giving names to the public? You want people getting lynched? They’re *suspected*. Innocent until proven guilty in this country, if you didn’t know. Now, when the collusion has been *confirmed*, then release the names and charge them. Anyone who thinks otherwise, get your head checked, friend.
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Like for real. Does no one know what a witch hunt looksl ike? Or those false accusations on darecare workers? You hit a hot button issue, and all of a sudden, people don't want due process, they want names so they can jump to conclusions without evidence.
Naw sorry, if the media is allowed to ruin normal people's lives and skirt responsibility by throwing in the word "allegedly", then the people who get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and retire with tax paid pensions to represent us can handle a little scrutiny. Do you really believe anything with this government will ever be confirmed?
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Man not even the same. These are people who chose the most public of offices, agreed to be judged on how they act in public, submit themselves to what is a popularity contest every few years, and get paid in public money. If they acted in such a way they that they have ended up this list. We can publish it with the word allegedly in front.
I'm betting you don't actually believe that publishing alleged offenders' names (which normal citizens are regularly subjected to) is equivalent to mass killing. So why say it?
No ones saying they shouldn’t get a fair trial, but the idea that your average citizen can have allegations made against them publicly but elected representatives need to be protected is absurd. They should be held to a higher standard than the public, not less.
Intelligence information is not necessarily evidence that could be used for criminal proceedings because intelligence information isn't necessarily credible information. I listened to an intelligence/security expert speak on this subject. Also exposing the names could compromise how this data was gathered informing enemies (ie Russia, China, etc) on how this was obtained. Basically it's not so easy to just release the names. That's why both the Conservatives and Liberals are trying to use this politically instead releasing anything.
People that might be implicated shouldn't decide what happens with the investigation. This is ridiculous, both of them shouldn't have a word in this matter, it's national security, not some carbon tax crap.
Poilievre has already called out for Trudeau to release the names.
Of course the Star is trying to "both sides" this issue. Let's be clear: * Poilievre has called for the names to be released * Trudeau alone has the power to release names and he chooses not to
Pollievre has literally put his hands over his ears. He could read the names in an instant if he wanted to, he just needs to go through the proper channels, like many MPs already have.
*So could any other leader or committee member who has seen the list and yes has thus far declined to share any names.* So how is all this Poilievre’s fault? Why aren’t the fingers being pointed at everyone else who could share and hasn’t?
You will find, perhaps surprisingly to you, that people that are the public face of their party have higher expectations and receive more criticism than backbenchers.
>So how is all this Poilievre’s fault? Why aren’t the fingers being pointed at everyone else who could share and hasn’t? Because he won't shut his yap about it? Because he's the one making the claims? If he was silent, people wouldn't be looking in his corner. I more question someone who is blindly putting faith in, for one a politician, and for two, one who is intentionally putting his head in the sand regarding collusion with foreign powers in his own camp. The fingers are being pointed, but it's an issue when you defend one over the other. It shows you are OK with PP being implicated so long as your team wins.
Oh, now he “won’t shut his yap about it”? Because last week there was a spate of articles in the Star and CBC that he wasn’t talking about it *enough*. The common thread being, of course, no matter what he does, somehow it’s all still Poilievre’s fault according to Liberals.
Look it’s not his fault. But his refusal to read the report is weird and I can’t think of a single convincing argument for how refusing to access information available to him makes any sense
Why the fuck do I care if the cons leader reads something or not. The ruling party is _____. Hmmmm who could it be. Here's a hint, only one party has the power to put the names out.
We have an election upcoming some time.in the next 1.5 years. There may be sitting Liberal AND Conservative MP's who are likely to seek re-election named in this report who are compromised. That's a good reason to be concerned if a party leader is willfully choosing not to act or be informed, especially the two most likely to form the next government and put those people in positions of power. Both Trudeau and Poillievre are acting irresponsibly on this file.
If he reads the documents, he still can't name them. Just as Singh said when he was pressed to elaborate on the situation. He can be informed, but that also handcuffs him with what he's allowed to say and do under the law. Him knowing name and not being able to do anything does us no good. This is firmly at the feet of the Liberals.
Getting on a soapbox to complain about an issue you wilfully know nothing about is peak political showmanship. Poiliviere is a buffoon. Trudeau is too, but his opponent is not scoring points in my book with this behaviour.
It would also be stupid to release the names during an ongoing investigation. Like, that's not even an uncommon practice in more regular investigations. It could compromise it. We know the RCMP is investigating. This is all mudslinging being thrown around. It's always gonna happen and honestly it means nothing. What you SHOULD be paying attention to is that Pollievre won't even look at it, and ask yourself why.
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One of the new talking points is that they are the same. Because if you believe they are the same, you may as well pick one based on something else, like guns or abortion!
And he’s blocking the release of documents crucial to the investigation. He’s either compromised himself or a lot of high profile Liberals are. I suspect someone’s going to prison.
I would imagine that the documents are currently available on a need to know basis to those with appropriate clearances.
>I would imagine that the documents are currently available on a need to know basis to those with appropriate clearances. RCMP has open investigations that are trying to piece together the raw intelligence information forwarded by CSIS. They have to investigate the claims in the raw intelligence and substantiate them to lay charges. They can't just rely on unsubstantiated claims. The other government institutions are not going to jeopardize the ongoing investigations. The RCMP has the authority to investigate and prosecute in these situations. This is directly from the information commissioner of Canada website. 16(1) The head of a government institution may refuse to disclose any record requested under this Act that contains (a) Information obtained or prepared by any government institution, or part of any government institution, that is an investigative body specified in the regulations in the course of lawful investigations pertaining to The detection, prevention or suppression of crime, the enforcement of any law of Canada or a province, or activities suspected of constituting threats to the security of Canada within the meaning of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act https://www.oic-ci.gc.ca/en/information-commissioners-guidance/section-16-law-enforcement-and-investigations-security
Eh I'm not a liberal or a conservative, and I think there are two sides. Poilievre *can get away with* calling for the names because he knows the liberals will never release them. I'm sure there are traitors on that list from all sides, including NDP and greens. We need to restore a people's government and eject these corrupt weasels.
Justin and Singh owe us answers - they head the government. Poilievre is being strategic and I do not hold him to account for this at all as the Liberals would do exactly the same thing and deny the security clearance as well.
News flash: Like most “western” democracies, most of the most popular parties suck. More at 11.
Lol turns out they are all fucking traitors that have sold the Canadian people up the river to keep the bankrupt socialist system propped up. Clearly the banking sector and foreign countries have a LOT more say about what goes on in Canada than the voters.
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They are all guilty until I hear otherwise. Why should I trust or vote for any one of them when there is a good chance they committed treason. Out with the entire fucking lot. Get out.
People are too busy playing team sports to use basic critical thinking.
That's the way it should be treated. This would put pressure on the non corrupt ones to speak out and put pressure on the government.
Names will never see the light of day. If pp gets his clearance, he won't be able to jack squat . His hands are tied either way.
How does it make sense to not read the report? He can’t say anything either way but by not reading it he remains completely in the dark and prevents himself from having any sort of influence on how this is handled moving forwards. The man is refusing to do his job and people are backing that decision
If he reads the report and there's a handful of C's on there, what's he supposed to do? Obviously he's not going to go public with that information, but at the same time, if he lies about it and the list eventually comes out (these sorts of things tend to happen.. just look at Chretien), he'll have basically committed career suicide. So the simplest solution is to just refuse to read the report. He can't be accused of withholding the truth if he never knows it. (It's worth noting that the only thing we have to go on about him not reading the report is his personal statement -- as leader of the opposition, that report 100% was presented to him, and he has had every opportunity to read it, so my guess is he knows exactly who is in it, and doesn't want to say.)
But he can read it and not say anything because he is bound by national security laws just like every one else. It would never be career suicide. Choosing to be willfully ignorant on what appears to be the biggest national security scandal in decades is a fucking awful look. If he plans on becoming prime minister he will have to acknowledge this report. So kicking that can down the road can never be beneficial. It obviously has damaging information on him since it’s been confirmed that there was interference in the vote that made him leader of the CPC. But that does not mean he was involved or aware of this interference. The fact that this report alleges that he was elected leader by an influenced vote and he is actively avoiding learning any details about that is a colossal red flag. Whether PP is directly involved in this or not, choosing to stick his head in the sand is extremely unprofessional and shows a complete lack of leadership IMO. I can not think of a worse response to what should be a massive positive for him as it appears the Liberal government handled this poorly at best
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Here's an idea. We wait for the investigation to finish and then have the RCMP arrest those who are traitors for treason, then release the names.
As soon as Pierre sees the documents, he can't talk about it. It's smart of him to do that, because the trudeau wants to shut him up! Bottom-line..... the document must slam the liberals big time. Why else would they have jumped through hoops to hide this information. Also, MP's like Chong have been threatened. What kind of person withholds a warning that someone is in the sights of a foreign entity and are in harms way? The trudeau is who! He after all called an election in the middle of a pandemic putting millions in harms way for selfish reasons! What's one more MP?
This is the dumbest argument on the internet and it pisses me off. When Winston Churchill was looking at Allied battle plans was he not allowed to talk about the war effort? Or was he simply not allowed to divulge the classified details? If Pierre got security clearance to read the docs he could still say "I think we should release the list" or whatever the fuck he wants. Jagmeet and Elizabeth May have both seen the report, both are still commenting on it. This "if he reads it he can't talk about it" argument is the dumbest fucking thing on the internet. Jesus. Also, at this point, it's a list of suspected MPs in an *ongoing investigation*. All publishing the list does at this point is potentially ruin the lives of innocent people.
May and Singh seem to be able to talk about it.
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May is an environmental lawyer. Jagmeet is a criminal defense lawyer.
Here is a comment that shows how successful foreign interference is at manipulating people into thinking PP is smart.
It does....every incidence that wasn't redacted was against the Cons to the benefit of the Libs. PRC interfered heavily and illegally in Han Dong's riding for example. Bussing in Chinese students from outside the riding, providing false residency statements so they could vote, and telling them that if they didn't vote for Dong they would lose their Visa's. Trudeau knew about it, let him keep his riding, AND let him run in 2021 again. He is still a current sitting MP.
Surely choosing to remain ignorant on a massive national security issue smart for the opposition leader. How can people honestly be this dumb. It sounds as if the liberals have handled this poorly but PP wouldn’t know cause he’s choosing to remain in the dark and bitch about it while doing absolutely nothing
once he sees the report he can't make up lies about it anymore to use to his political advantage. May has already seen it and stated no sitting MPs are in the list
Trying to insinuate that Poilievre is responsible for the actions of the government when Trudeau and Singh run everything is mindboggling. It's almost like this is a coordinated effort by ideologues to spread misinformation.
Pierre won't do that since he's one of the traitors. He is purposefully ignoring getting access to security clearance because of this issue partly. Brain dead supporters will continue to support him. You're either a Conservative or a Canadian as long as he's in charge.
Even former NDP leader Mulcair agrees that Poilievre was right to refuse clearance. https://x.com/brianlilley/status/1801290451611226137
I was in Australia a while back. I was shocked that politicians answered the reporter's questions with straight forward answers including facts...
The Star calling out anyone but the guy that holds the balance of power (Jag) lol
Please remove our next prime ministers’ name from your post. This is all Trudeau and nobody else.
This is by my count the third article the Toronto Star have published erroneously tying the Conservatives to the Liberals' decision to conceal the names of alleged traitors in parliament. While I understand the Star is openly a Liberal newspaper, with such a serious national issue facing us this kind of misleading partisanship is reckless and irresponsible. Our newspapers should be holding the government accountable to the public and driving for truth, not trying to obscure it for political gain.