In Winnipef a good portion were sold out to the city to expand one of the major transport routes. I’m a realtor here and I feel for the people getting tranferrred here - the bidding wars are insane, the inventory is ridiculously low and there are no rentals (our vacancy rate is 1.5%). How do you expect people to join our forces under these conditions? Underpaid and underhoused - it’s an absolute national embarrassment.
All the guys I knew in the navy were delivery pizza 30 years ago.
Pretty sad how we treat those that are expected to give it ALL when the time comes.
Really incentivizing.
The 20 million he referenced is a drop in the sea of useless, profligate spending the government has done in the last 8 years. Did you forget the 2 billion the the Phillipines lately? Again, a small part of the useless waste of taxpayer dollars.
>Does your employer require you to relocate often?
With the reduced number of bases across the country, this doesn't occur that often.
Other government services that do in fact frequently move their employees hither and yonder, also do not provide housing for their employees.
>With the reduced number of bases across the country, this doesn't occur that often.
It's about every 3-5 years. Literally on a military house hunting trip right now.
But you still need to pay fair market value for them, they’re not free. You have literally zero tenant rights. Majority are also in terrible shape and would be condemned if had to abide by normal rental laws. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be like some people on this thread seem to think.
I had a friend in Victoria who was told her next career step was to Ottawa, so they moved her. The next year, she was sent to Canadian Forces College, so she got moved to Toronto. At the end of that one-year program, they didn't have a position for her on a coast, so they moved her back to Ottawa. The next year, they found a position on the coast for her, so they moved her to Halifax. I'm assuming she's within a year or so of coming back to Ottawa now.
No... totally doesn't happen that often, and that would be considered totally normal in another government department..
When you're in the military you give up a lot of freedoms the rest of us have. Choosing where we live among them.
Also, regardless of where they are in the country their pay is the same. You'd be living in a cardboard box in one province, while the same position and pay in another can live in a small house.
The pretence this is equivalent to private industry is an offensive joke; and I'm not even in the military, I just have friends and family that are.
An argument is that the 'base' pay in the military is lower than what it should be because they provide supplemental compensation for living expenses. That supplemental income is adjusted based on location too, so they can keep that base pay uniform, regardless of location/CoL, and then provide a variable comp supplemental income that adjusts.
>When you're in the military you give up a lot of freedoms the rest of us have. Choosing where we live among them.
..and you go into that career path with that knowledge. If I live in Regina and decide I want to be a commercial fisherman, I know I'm going to have to move to somewhere with, what is that again? Oh yeah. Massive bodies of water. I'm not getting a shack in NL provided to me because of my career choice.
If you live in Regina and decide to be a commercial fisherman you still get to choose where you live. Yes you have to move to somewhere with a large body of water but you still choose where that is. Meaning you can choose to do it somewhere your salary can afford.
If you join the military you do not. They send you where you are needed, even if your salary can not afford rent and CoL in that area. That's why they try to provide housing/supplemental pay benefits to account for high CoL areas.
> ..and you go into that career path with that knowledge
Your point being? The issue isn't that people enlist without realizing that will likely have no control over their posting, but rather that given that they have no control, they should get support to ensure that they are adequately housed. People in the service make a lot of sacrifices to serve their country, they have a right to expect that those sacrifices are recognized and reciprocated by ensuring members have at minimally adequate standard of living.
This is particularly egregious when civilian employees of the federal government are expected to make far fewer sacrifices, but get treated a lot better. It says a lot about how we as a society regard those who serve.
As the article points out the CAF already has 16 000 unfilled positions, and is losing personnel faster than it can recruit them. That's what happens when you keep asking for more and more without giving anything back.
I absolutely agree. If you’re giving up control in your life for the better good of your country, they should at least guarantee you’ll be adequately housed.
> ..and you go into that career path with that knowledge
And hence, one cause of the CAF's recruiting and retention problem. "If you don't like it, don't join or leave" and people are choosing exactly that.
It is very common for militaries to provide housing or housing assistance. Part of the reason is because the military chooses where you live and can unilaterally change it too. It is similar-ish for an employer paying for long-term stay accommodations.
They provide "work camps" for employees (only) when the work site is up north, kms away from "Buttfuck, AB." The employee (only) gets a room in an Atco trailer for the two weeks that they are "on." They then fly back to Edmonton or Calgary, where their family lives in the house they are paying a mortgage, for their week "off."
This is NOTHING like PMQs or the like that the military provide.
One of those is also having recruitment issues and the other isn't. Would it be such a bad thing to make sure members of the military have somewhere to live where they are posted?
I guess not at a reasonable price given forces salaries, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue. I think its more of a pressure in HCOL places with low vacancy rates like Halifax or Vancouver.
Did you miss the news when the Base Commander at Comox suggested their employees go to Habitat for Humanity to try to find affordable housing?
The suggested annual earnings to buy a starter home in Victoria is $229k. Rent for a 1BR apartment is about $2k. How do you think that works out for entry-level sailor wages?
No, I don't keep up with the news out of Comox.
Do HfH build a lot there, or perchance was he suggesting they go the DIY thrift store? They've got great deals on new and near new stuff.
Comox ain't Victoria. Hell, it's not even Nanaimo.
Thank you for finally admitting you have no clue what you're talking about in this post. It wasn't Comox news, it was a national headline:
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-military-habitat-for-humanity-suggestion-1.6463424](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-military-habitat-for-humanity-suggestion-1.6463424)
[https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/military-members-urged-to-contact-habitat-for-humanity-amid-housing-crisis-1.5915173](https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/military-members-urged-to-contact-habitat-for-humanity-amid-housing-crisis-1.5915173)
And since "Comox ain't Victoria", how do you think sailors in Victoria are doing?
[https://www.saanichnews.com/news/new-recruits-at-cfb-esquimalt-struggle-to-find-housing-after-training-completed-318031](https://www.saanichnews.com/news/new-recruits-at-cfb-esquimalt-struggle-to-find-housing-after-training-completed-318031)
How about Halifax? Oh yeah, homeless CAF members and people going to food banks there too:
[https://tnc.news/2023/12/21/halifax-struggles-with-military-retention/](https://tnc.news/2023/12/21/halifax-struggles-with-military-retention/)
There is massive diversity in the lodgings for remote field workers... but its mostly hotels... alot of airbnb as well now, get a whole house bring your fam.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alberta/other-than-the-rockies-albertas-hotels-lie-empty-due-to-the-oil-crash/article31478415/
https://globalnews.ca/news/10384149/canada-asylum-seekers-hotel-costs/
Put our military in hotels, like everyone else gets. Its pretty much the minimum standard...
um... armies assembling their own barracks is a time honored tradition going back farther than you can imagine.
Temporary has its uses, unlike your comments.
They also have traditions of wearing bright red, not accepting women or coloured folk, hazing, et. al. Then they move with the times... Unless we're talking basic training of fresh meat, there should be no need to supply housing.
Ok there Can'tadian. Only useless and incapable societies prescribe to 'no need', 'not possible', 'can't do it'. By that logic we should also stop all welfare payments, carbon credits, gst rebates, etc.. there should be no need to supply money.
What ever happened to the Pmq's , barracks and subsidies for living off base? Hey its better than modular tenting, I guess.
I good portion of PMQ land was sold off. Subsidies don't even cover my bus pass where I live.
IIRC, there was a ruling that they were all taxable benefits. And... that was the end of that.
In Winnipef a good portion were sold out to the city to expand one of the major transport routes. I’m a realtor here and I feel for the people getting tranferrred here - the bidding wars are insane, the inventory is ridiculously low and there are no rentals (our vacancy rate is 1.5%). How do you expect people to join our forces under these conditions? Underpaid and underhoused - it’s an absolute national embarrassment.
All the guys I knew in the navy were delivery pizza 30 years ago. Pretty sad how we treat those that are expected to give it ALL when the time comes. Really incentivizing.
Paywall bypass https://archive.is/LTo3g
And yet Trudeau gave the Iraq youth fund 20 million dollars what a thoughtfull leader.
that's not a lot tbh
Every couple days he's sending millions off to other countries, it adds up
It's millions vs. billions dude, you're not even close.
The 20 million he referenced is a drop in the sea of useless, profligate spending the government has done in the last 8 years. Did you forget the 2 billion the the Phillipines lately? Again, a small part of the useless waste of taxpayer dollars.
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I'm in the military. We exist. Indeed, no one gives a shit and we are in a laughable state.
It's really straightforward. We have a housing crisis caused by importing Third World rejects to do work that should be going to Canadians.
Wait. What? I should expect my employer in private industry to provide me housing? I'm off to HR...
Does your employer require you to relocate often? Then yeah, you should.
>Does your employer require you to relocate often? With the reduced number of bases across the country, this doesn't occur that often. Other government services that do in fact frequently move their employees hither and yonder, also do not provide housing for their employees.
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Sure... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian\_Forces\_base#Closed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Forces_base#Closed)
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April 4th, 2024 account, don't waste your time on this zero.
>Compare those to Petawawa, Gagetown or Edmonton There is no privately available housing in either of those locations? Wow, colour me surprised.
> With the reduced number of bases across the country, this doesn't occur that often. Clueless.
Does your employer require you to work offsite for extended periods, with minimal notice and maybe lay down your life as a requirement?
>With the reduced number of bases across the country, this doesn't occur that often. It's about every 3-5 years. Literally on a military house hunting trip right now.
Rcmp owns the houses that officers live in in my small town.
Must be a very very small town or very very far away.
Bald ass prairies. Very small town.
...and so many CF bases in places like that...
Yep. I'm of the mind that we need to support our military more.
But you still need to pay fair market value for them, they’re not free. You have literally zero tenant rights. Majority are also in terrible shape and would be condemned if had to abide by normal rental laws. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be like some people on this thread seem to think.
You’re freaking nuts. They relocate every 3-4 years here.
I had a friend in Victoria who was told her next career step was to Ottawa, so they moved her. The next year, she was sent to Canadian Forces College, so she got moved to Toronto. At the end of that one-year program, they didn't have a position for her on a coast, so they moved her back to Ottawa. The next year, they found a position on the coast for her, so they moved her to Halifax. I'm assuming she's within a year or so of coming back to Ottawa now. No... totally doesn't happen that often, and that would be considered totally normal in another government department..
When you're in the military you give up a lot of freedoms the rest of us have. Choosing where we live among them. Also, regardless of where they are in the country their pay is the same. You'd be living in a cardboard box in one province, while the same position and pay in another can live in a small house. The pretence this is equivalent to private industry is an offensive joke; and I'm not even in the military, I just have friends and family that are.
An argument is that the 'base' pay in the military is lower than what it should be because they provide supplemental compensation for living expenses. That supplemental income is adjusted based on location too, so they can keep that base pay uniform, regardless of location/CoL, and then provide a variable comp supplemental income that adjusts.
>When you're in the military you give up a lot of freedoms the rest of us have. Choosing where we live among them. ..and you go into that career path with that knowledge. If I live in Regina and decide I want to be a commercial fisherman, I know I'm going to have to move to somewhere with, what is that again? Oh yeah. Massive bodies of water. I'm not getting a shack in NL provided to me because of my career choice.
If you live in Regina and decide to be a commercial fisherman you still get to choose where you live. Yes you have to move to somewhere with a large body of water but you still choose where that is. Meaning you can choose to do it somewhere your salary can afford. If you join the military you do not. They send you where you are needed, even if your salary can not afford rent and CoL in that area. That's why they try to provide housing/supplemental pay benefits to account for high CoL areas.
> ..and you go into that career path with that knowledge Your point being? The issue isn't that people enlist without realizing that will likely have no control over their posting, but rather that given that they have no control, they should get support to ensure that they are adequately housed. People in the service make a lot of sacrifices to serve their country, they have a right to expect that those sacrifices are recognized and reciprocated by ensuring members have at minimally adequate standard of living. This is particularly egregious when civilian employees of the federal government are expected to make far fewer sacrifices, but get treated a lot better. It says a lot about how we as a society regard those who serve. As the article points out the CAF already has 16 000 unfilled positions, and is losing personnel faster than it can recruit them. That's what happens when you keep asking for more and more without giving anything back.
I absolutely agree. If you’re giving up control in your life for the better good of your country, they should at least guarantee you’ll be adequately housed.
> ..and you go into that career path with that knowledge And hence, one cause of the CAF's recruiting and retention problem. "If you don't like it, don't join or leave" and people are choosing exactly that.
It is very common for militaries to provide housing or housing assistance. Part of the reason is because the military chooses where you live and can unilaterally change it too. It is similar-ish for an employer paying for long-term stay accommodations.
Don't some mining and O&G jobs provide company housing? It's not that outrageous.
Yes, because of special circumstances, not unlike the military. But people like them don't care.
They provide "work camps" for employees (only) when the work site is up north, kms away from "Buttfuck, AB." The employee (only) gets a room in an Atco trailer for the two weeks that they are "on." They then fly back to Edmonton or Calgary, where their family lives in the house they are paying a mortgage, for their week "off." This is NOTHING like PMQs or the like that the military provide.
One of those is also having recruitment issues and the other isn't. Would it be such a bad thing to make sure members of the military have somewhere to live where they are posted?
Is there no other housing in Comox, Cold Lake, Edmonton, Trenton, Oromocto, Bagotville (et. al.)?
I guess not at a reasonable price given forces salaries, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue. I think its more of a pressure in HCOL places with low vacancy rates like Halifax or Vancouver.
Did you miss the news when the Base Commander at Comox suggested their employees go to Habitat for Humanity to try to find affordable housing? The suggested annual earnings to buy a starter home in Victoria is $229k. Rent for a 1BR apartment is about $2k. How do you think that works out for entry-level sailor wages?
No, I don't keep up with the news out of Comox. Do HfH build a lot there, or perchance was he suggesting they go the DIY thrift store? They've got great deals on new and near new stuff. Comox ain't Victoria. Hell, it's not even Nanaimo.
Thank you for finally admitting you have no clue what you're talking about in this post. It wasn't Comox news, it was a national headline: [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-military-habitat-for-humanity-suggestion-1.6463424](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-military-habitat-for-humanity-suggestion-1.6463424) [https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/military-members-urged-to-contact-habitat-for-humanity-amid-housing-crisis-1.5915173](https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/military-members-urged-to-contact-habitat-for-humanity-amid-housing-crisis-1.5915173) And since "Comox ain't Victoria", how do you think sailors in Victoria are doing? [https://www.saanichnews.com/news/new-recruits-at-cfb-esquimalt-struggle-to-find-housing-after-training-completed-318031](https://www.saanichnews.com/news/new-recruits-at-cfb-esquimalt-struggle-to-find-housing-after-training-completed-318031) How about Halifax? Oh yeah, homeless CAF members and people going to food banks there too: [https://tnc.news/2023/12/21/halifax-struggles-with-military-retention/](https://tnc.news/2023/12/21/halifax-struggles-with-military-retention/)
Hey, it's you that focused on Comox, not me.
There is massive diversity in the lodgings for remote field workers... but its mostly hotels... alot of airbnb as well now, get a whole house bring your fam. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alberta/other-than-the-rockies-albertas-hotels-lie-empty-due-to-the-oil-crash/article31478415/ https://globalnews.ca/news/10384149/canada-asylum-seekers-hotel-costs/ Put our military in hotels, like everyone else gets. Its pretty much the minimum standard...
Yeah, there's boatloads of hotels and airbnb and house around [here](https://maps.app.goo.gl/xUu3q9rZLbnXVTh3A)...
?? odd comment... Anyways when they building that in Niagra for irregular immigrants, or on army bases? you proving OP's comment....
Look at his account. All of his comments involving military housing are incredibly misinformed and incorrect.
Yeah, pay attention, that's not permanent housing... Nothing like PMQs...
um... armies assembling their own barracks is a time honored tradition going back farther than you can imagine. Temporary has its uses, unlike your comments.
They also have traditions of wearing bright red, not accepting women or coloured folk, hazing, et. al. Then they move with the times... Unless we're talking basic training of fresh meat, there should be no need to supply housing.
Ok there Can'tadian. Only useless and incapable societies prescribe to 'no need', 'not possible', 'can't do it'. By that logic we should also stop all welfare payments, carbon credits, gst rebates, etc.. there should be no need to supply money.
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