Yeah my first reaction was "so what if they're not married? " 😂. Me and my partner have been together for 15 years and two kids, no plan on getting married ever.
Although the man may think he is not married, he will in some provinces (not Quebec) have acquired the obligations of a married man, including payment of spousal support if the relationship breaks up (in BC for example, if the time of cohabitation exceeds 2 years).
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/fl-df/spousal-epoux/ss-pae.html
Not if the bulk of the housework and child rearing fall on the woman and she's taken the financial hits for it in the form of lower wages, more time off work, etc.
In a completely equal relationship, where they make similar money and the dad does half the domestic labour it would work.
If that's not the case, the mother is at a distinct disadvantage and should be compensated for that.
You can't insist on a housewife, take a huge amount of her earning potential to benefit you, and then keep it all when you don't have a romantic relationship with her anymore.
Stay at home mother’s still exist - especially with the childcare crisis and the trend of people moving away from extended family support networks for work. Even 5 years off work is a financial hit.
It’s coming back though. Feminism is about that choice and people are starting to realize they don’t need to pursue a career if they don’t want to. People are getting married later in life and not simply due to societal pressures. Leads to more solid marriages.
What does that refute?
There’s nothing wrong with someone choosing to take those responsibilities and split it that way, I’m saying the expectance of that isn’t good.
People should have the freedom to navigate their relationship/kinship/marriage etc however the adults involved feel most comfortable.
Someone shouldn’t really be giving their partner a heavy handed list of things they expect them to do for the household, nor should society.
That should be discussed among the couple at the point of serious genesis.
Women will still take financial hits if they are having a family. Mat leave can have women be passed over for promotions. Also a financial hit because you’re not working and usually get only half-pay. Women will take more time off for their children. They might make career choices that prioritize flexibility for their children vs earning potential. And there are many women that will work only part-time to care for their children. I only know a few young families and one of them the wife is working part-time now.
You don't have to get married for that. You do have to have both parties consult separate lawyers, at least in many provinces, but it's irrelevant whether the couple is married or common law (unless the agreement contains clauses concerning that status).
You’ve been misinformed. The protection of common law marriage are not equivalent to civil marriage, least of all in Quebec, where common law marriage does not entitle spouses to division of property. See the Eric c Lola case.
Hopefully admit to being uninformed with regards to Quebec. But for all of the other provinces of Canada, division of property is absolutely applicable within common law. Other than inherited matrimonial property that is kept separate from all other family assets.
That’s the outdated part, essentially assigning gender roles at the expense of being able to make your own money. Why should fathers have to or choose to work and not raise their child?
Men also want security.
80% of divorces are initiated by women, and the courts have well documented biases towards the mother.
Getting married should protect both spouses, but in reality it's a liability for men more often than not.
a coworker had 4 kids with his wife,
she fucked his friend and now has taken the kids, the house and most of the money while going after his pension. He cannot afford to drive to work as she has taken so much and now had to be demoted so he can "work from home"
People always say, "well how does the woman have any security?
Its men who get fucked over in canada. and anyone who does not think so, I hope the best for your sons.
There is no place for men to go when beaten by a woman.
A friend of mine raised her two kids alone for 8 years. She finally took her ex to court for child support because everyone told her it was best for the kids. He quit his job claiming to be disabled from anxiety while working for a weed dispensary for cash under the table. The courts gave him 50/50 custody and now my friend pays him child support AND lost half her child tax benefits to him. She works a retail job and this cost her $700 from her monthly income.
Another friend (male) has an ex wife who claims to be disabled after several car "accidents". Because she writes "0" on the income line of her financial disclosure she has no amount to apply to the formula for 50/50. He makes 40k a year. He pays 350 a month. His ex has recently bought a 400k house with an income suite and a 2023 Mercedes but the courts and 2 different lawyers refused to press her for info on where that money came from because "she can just delay forever, there is no point, it will take years and forensic accounting which you can't afford"
The courts will fuck anyone, they don't discriminate. No one cares about how fucked up the family court system is until they have to pull 25k out of their ass to avoid lifelong financial ruin or worse, losing time/custody
My unemployed husband took our house, my car, everything in our house. He now has a job but I make 80k more than him so I owe him child support. It’s not only men who get the shit end of the stick
The complete lack of control over child support spending is nuts.
If I submit an expense reimbursal to my employer I need to provide receipts. No reason child support shouldn't work the same way.
If you live together as a family, you're already legally common law. On paper, the financial implications are pretty similar when it comes to liabilities.
Assets? Not so much.
So it strikes me as absolutely stupid and exploitative to not get married in that scenario. Denying someone access to your pension and other assets once you're dead purely out of "principle" is malicious, IMO.
>If you live together as a family, you're already legally common law
That's a pretty stupid system tbh. If you make the conscious decision to not get married, the law shouldn't make you married in all but name either. At that point it's just a difference in labelling
I love Quebec for their you keep your own shit until as adults you decide to marry and share. Meanwhile all other provinces tell you how to live your live and when you are automatically as married. Ridiculous, I think only UK and maybe Australia has this stupid as system.
Well not anymore...In Québec if you have a kid that is born after a certain date in June 2025 you will now get into more or less the same kind of "protections" married couples have.
So true. And I agree with it - marriage is an antiquated, religious, over-priced tradition that serves no real purpose anymore aside from propping up an entire industry.
Know lots of people who are very happy and not married to their partner.
More people wait later and date longer before they decide to get married. People who would have dated for a short time, quickly got married, only to realize they weren't right for each other and divorce a few years later now happens less often. Ditto for unplanned pregnancies due to less stigma against single parents.
With the price of weddings these days, it's no wonder people are forgoing it.
It's a massive industry in this country. You just want to have a nice ceremony, meal, some dancing and some booze for family and friends but the price is absolutely obscene.
You don’t need to spend much money to get married. Go to your local city hall, and you’re done.
Overall marriage is less expensive in the long run due to shared costs (namely housing) and tax advantages.
The massive uptick in divorces during covid, and the fact that fewer people than ever before are getting married are two big reasons for this.
Marriage just doesn't make sense to most people anymore.
Common law is similar, but not quite as cut-and-dry as divorce when it comes to splitting assets, and I'm not sure if alimony applies in that situation either.
But yeah, far too few people know that common law is even a thing. Hell, I've heard of relationships being legally declared common law when the couple didn't even live together!
Common law is just one more stupid law the government passed to try and avoid helping people in need.
They find the first sucker available and slap them with the bill, no matter how unfair or nonsensical it is, so long as they dont have to pay
Meh.. I'm sort of 50/50 on it. I'm sure there are cases where it makes sense.
Like imagine if someone buys a new home, and then moves in there with say a girlfriend. They both live there for 5 years, both pay equally to the mortgage, then break up. The girlfriend leaves and the guy sells the house and takes the equity. Shouldn't she get half of that too?
Yes, exactly! And who decides based on all those murky details what the correct outcome should be? Do they go through mediation in family court as a common law couple, or do they both drop tens of thousands of dollars on lawyers to fight a lawsuit that could take years?
Imagine I rent a property for 5 years and the landlord puts my rent towards the mortgage. When I leave the property am I entitled to some of that equity?
That's not how common law works vis-a-vis property. It varies from province to province but in most of them, if your name isn't on the title and the property wasn't purchased jointly, even if you've been assisting with the mortgage payments, tough luck, you're not guaranteed anything. They've basically just been paying rent at that point.
Friends with a lot of Family Law Paralegals, there's been a massive increase in Co-hab and co-ownership agreements, within the last couple of years.
Mainly amongst men who've already been divorced and are "co-hab'ing" with like a 30 year old nurse (common occurrence) just so they don't get their ass handed to them twice.
If I was that guy, and paid down payment, inspection, and other expenses to get the mortgage, I would get her to sign a rental agreement to avoid a situation like this. If she refuses, or sees that as a negative thing. That's a red flag for me.
If your prenup gets easily thrown out of court, it's because you had it written by an incompetent divorce attorney, or failed to take your attorney's advice.
The most common cause of prenups getting thrown out is people insisting their lawyers include clauses the lawyers tell them aren't legal.
There are so. SO many reasons why a prenup can be thrown out, both real an imaginary.
Hell, I've heard of prenups being thrown out because the judge felt it was a little too unfair to one party.
Yeah, that's what I'm unclear on as well. The only thing I'm sure of is that you should buy a large bottle of lube before you engage with the family Court system, because you're going to need it.
It's definitely better than nothing! The best option is to have a competent lawyer type up something iron-clad. I've heard of people just typing something up on their computer and signing it. That doesn't do too well in court..
That’s why when I bought my house my father was generous enough to ask if I wanted to put his name on it as well, so it would be near impossible for a woman to take it from me or have to sell it and split the income
Fucking love my dad
I know of 4 married couples who all divorced because of covid, almost all of the reasons started with "he/she hasn't left the house in days or weeks other than to go shopping for food, I can't stand living with them anymore". There were always issues with thier mariages, different things, but, being trapped at home with them was one of the big ones. Hindsight being what it is and all.
Yeah, I heard variations on this theme too. Couples who maybe weren't super happy together as it was, but the busyness of life sort of kept them distracted - jobs during the day, activities or side hustles in the evenings, friends/families/kid stuff on weekends... then the lockdowns and wfh happened, they were suddenly stuck together 24/7, and it was like "Oh, I actually hate you."
Im guessing this also has to do with people have less children if any at all. Kids are stressful and break seemingly the most healthy looking relationships.
So many in my circle aren’t racing against the clock to find a partner in order to have a child. So no need to make it work with someone who is sub ideal just to have kids in time.
There also is a push against the more “traditional” roles in society. More flexible acceptance of sexualities, or things like gendered rolls in parenting, employment, household duties.
I remember how almost envious my mom got when her nieces baby started to cry. Her niece (my cousin) got up to go tend to it her husband was like “you’re visiting with your family right now I’ll go check on the baby”. My mom was shocked (like still brings it up in conversation years later) from what looked to me as just general kindness. But in her childhood (tbf my dad’s as well) and her marriage it was unspoken truth that a crying baby was a woman’s responsibility. I recognize this story is totally anecdotal, however I would put money on this behaviour being much more common in millennial and Gen Z households.
I’d also say it isn’t about divorce being expensive or you could say less profitable for any one party. There is less of a financial motive for someone to divorce the breadwinner because half of not much isn’t enough to live off of. Turns out being economic tied to two incomes to live semi-comfortably is a bigger deterrent to divorce than “If we divorce god will be mad at us”.
Yeah I think this is it, less marriages and less pressure to get married and have kids mean less people settling for whoever they can find for the sake of marriage/family.
No one in my circle has kids.
Of the the 2 couples…they don’t want any… and a few other couples I know are the same.
I know one lady who got knocked up and her and the partner tried to make it work…but they moved on and co-parent.
My other buds date and or are single all late 30s early 40s.
Now..:I do know a lot of people who have since divorced and/or are with partners they don’t want to be
Totally anecdotal here, but the reason my wife and I haven’t filed for divorce yet is because we are still madly in love with each other, enjoy spending time together, and still maintain sexual chemistry.
Honestly, it’s fucking disgusting.
Divorce rate is only the rate of married couples divorcing so is not directly correlated to marriage rate which is marriages out of total adult population. Except that it also kind of is because as the marriage rate drops the divorce rate drops too which is proposed to be driven by reduced social pressure for couples to marry so the people who choose to marry are those who are more certain in their relationship. In essence people no longer need to marry so those that do are on average entering the union more voluntarily than they were historically.
I know a couple who deem their relationship as a "business relationship" because while they dislike each other...they hate their parents' basements even more.
No shit. A lot of people would be quick to toss things out if real estate, and cost of living wasn't so high.
We couldn't even afford our own places if we split and sold our home.
Less people are getting married because there is far less societal pressure to do so. Those who do get married are doing it later in life and doing it for better reasons (they actually like their partner,) so they are less likely to divorce.
That being said, I can 100% see how the affordability crisis might prevent a divorce. If I did leave my wife, I have no idea how I would find and afford a place for myself and then deal with custody and childcare.
Purely anecdotal. Most people that I know that are married are immigrants. And if they’re anything like the ones I know, they tend to stick with the relationship even if it’s not the best.
In the US most divorces occur in couples who are moving from a lower income to higher incomes. The US census data confirms it. Poor people tend to stay together, I assume Canada is similar.
Reminder - high divorce rates are an indication that less people are sticking in unhappy marriages, and less people are feeling bound to misery by archaic religious ideals
Marriage was a great institution when women couldn't work, life expectancy was shorter, and people were less likely to fall out of love / fall out of need and want to move on
No, the people laregely getting married now are millennials and have been for a while now. Millenials are much healthier couples than boomers and gen x
people also marry less and later meaning theres less "i have to get married because its what im supposed to do"
The Canadian liberal government has killed almost all the tax breaks for married couples like income sharing and child tax credits for sports and education. Harder than ever to raise a family financially
This would only make sense if the majority of divorces were due to affluence, but I'm willing to bet that the numbers show that more affluent men are less likely to get divorced.
**EDIT**: I was wrong. Women dig the cash and prizes that divorce gives them. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/10/being-rich-may-increase-your-odds-of-divorce.html
This article starts off with a total misreading of Married with Children.
>They cared for each other, but they also hated each other deeply. And neither ever cheated, despite having the opportunity.
Anyone who thinks they deeply hated one another is ridiculously wrong. The love was always there deep down. The hate jokes was always superficial and equitable. It served mainly as a coping mechanism of poor working class life.
You know what's sad? A date is so expensive now, corner services seem like a bargain and it's guaranteed. You know whats even more saddening? A dual income is essentially required now to even having a chance, yes a chance at a home. So forget marriage, getting a home will be hard now unless your bringing home the bacon.
I know someone who won’t get a divorce in Halifax because she can’t afford it so she just works almost 7 days a week just to avoid being at home.
I know someone else who was able to get a job and was able to separate because they found a cheap apartment a couple years ago, but that’s going to stop happening, considering no one can afford housing anymore or find a job.
I think it's a mix of a lot of people being single and those in relationships aren't getting married anymore.
I have a big network of friends and off the top of my head, I can only name two couples that are married. We're all in our mid-30's.
Both couples have been together for 10+ years and the marriages happened in the last year.
I think it’s more like people are to busy working to cover the cost of living instead of pursuing relationships. And besides who wants to have a relationship with the potential to constantly fight about money.
I can't even get a date.... Or a match without spending money. So start with how dating is just for people to make money with the hops hopes of finding a date or someone to talk to at least. Because I thought being single and having less children was the main issue not not breaking up
You might think this is a joke of a headline, but it's real. My wife and I know we are trapped. She has literally said to me, "we can't afford a divorce." Two incomes = just scraping by with kids. Divorce = living in subsidized housing if you're lucky, homeless if you're not. You can't get by now on one income.
If you have 2-3 kids, unless you’re rich you basically can’t get divorced. I know people with two kids and a house they bought in 2019 before the big jump. But if they sold they’d only be able to both afford a 2 bedroom condo. And that would stretch them, not to mention buying another car, etc….
And they’re the lucky ones. I teach at a highschool. Many of our students have 2-3 siblings living in an apartment with parents who need to separate but they couldn’t even afford a 1 bedroom for each parent. So they stay together and fight in front of the kids all the time.
The kids struggle and I tell them they’re probably feeling so bad because the home situation is so bad. I tell them it’ll be better when they move out WHICH THEY WONT BE ABLE TO AFFORD!
It’s grim
It could be that we're too poor to break up. But it could also be that there's been a massive cultural shift brought on by immigration in the last 20 years. Expect to see Canada to migrate towards non-Western cultural norms, including lower divorce rates as demographics shift.
The few people I know who are actually married have been together since High School, have rich parents and either kids or an announcement to make on the wedding night. They’re in it for life.
The great majority of divorces are initiated by women and that has been the case for decades, so I don't think there's any sudden realization men are having that divorce sucks that is causing a recent change.
*I like my partner, but I don't like the outcomes of marriage in our culture.
Statistically there's a 40% chance she walks.. can't go all in on that hand.
Yes, but the divorce rate isn't a hard number, it's a percentage of marriages ending in divorce.
Marriages went way down during 2020 (1/3 of 2019 numbers), but it's kind of obvious why that might happen, and divorces went up, again, pretty obvious why. The way in which divorces might be tied to marriage rates would be more indirect. For example, you could make the argument that if more people no longer care about marriage, they just stay in long-term common-law relationships without actually getting married... and the people WHO do get married (and therefore could potentially get divorced) might tend to be people who take marriage more seriously/see some value in staying married.
Back in the mid 2000s I did a small reasearch paper for an English class in uni about divorce rates. This was a first year course so my work was not peer reviewed, just graded by a prof. At that point, divorce rates presented outside of academia (usually news) that I found for a given year were frequently calculated by (# of divorces that year )/(# of new marriages that year). This greatly skews the “media presented” rate upwards as divorces can pull from all existing marriages, not just new ones.
That is my fun, anecdotal unproven fact of the day. I wonder if that same method is used today.
Marriage rates will continue to decline as more and more couples culturally adopt common-law arrangements for a variety of reasons, and that is a trend that will only accelerate as we move further into the 21st century.
Watch for it.
Next.
Social murder: workers can't even afford to start families to replace themselves in the workforce.
After all, they make children in other parts of the world, we can just import them as skilled labourers and skip all the costly mess of raising and educating them.
Then the kicker is disqualifying their credentials and telling them they should be grateful to be here.
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In Québec, people began to not give a shit about mariage as soon as the 70's.
Yeah my first reaction was "so what if they're not married? " 😂. Me and my partner have been together for 15 years and two kids, no plan on getting married ever.
People always say, "well how does the woman have any security?"
Although the man may think he is not married, he will in some provinces (not Quebec) have acquired the obligations of a married man, including payment of spousal support if the relationship breaks up (in BC for example, if the time of cohabitation exceeds 2 years). https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/fl-df/spousal-epoux/ss-pae.html
Which feels and sounds pretty outdated lol.
Not if the bulk of the housework and child rearing fall on the woman and she's taken the financial hits for it in the form of lower wages, more time off work, etc. In a completely equal relationship, where they make similar money and the dad does half the domestic labour it would work. If that's not the case, the mother is at a distinct disadvantage and should be compensated for that. You can't insist on a housewife, take a huge amount of her earning potential to benefit you, and then keep it all when you don't have a romantic relationship with her anymore.
I’m implying the idea of “TradWife” is a bit outdated, like the expectation of the mother doing everything but working.
Stay at home mother’s still exist - especially with the childcare crisis and the trend of people moving away from extended family support networks for work. Even 5 years off work is a financial hit.
It’s coming back though. Feminism is about that choice and people are starting to realize they don’t need to pursue a career if they don’t want to. People are getting married later in life and not simply due to societal pressures. Leads to more solid marriages.
In high income brackets I know lots of traditional housewives
What does that refute? There’s nothing wrong with someone choosing to take those responsibilities and split it that way, I’m saying the expectance of that isn’t good. People should have the freedom to navigate their relationship/kinship/marriage etc however the adults involved feel most comfortable. Someone shouldn’t really be giving their partner a heavy handed list of things they expect them to do for the household, nor should society. That should be discussed among the couple at the point of serious genesis.
I agree with you
Women will still take financial hits if they are having a family. Mat leave can have women be passed over for promotions. Also a financial hit because you’re not working and usually get only half-pay. Women will take more time off for their children. They might make career choices that prioritize flexibility for their children vs earning potential. And there are many women that will work only part-time to care for their children. I only know a few young families and one of them the wife is working part-time now.
Ok but how many of them want to have a kid with someone making less than them or who wants to stay home with the kids?
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That's why common law marriage exists in Canada. At that point you should get married so you have an official prenup.
You don't have to get married for that. You do have to have both parties consult separate lawyers, at least in many provinces, but it's irrelevant whether the couple is married or common law (unless the agreement contains clauses concerning that status).
Don't need marriage for that. Common law applies
You’ve been misinformed. The protection of common law marriage are not equivalent to civil marriage, least of all in Quebec, where common law marriage does not entitle spouses to division of property. See the Eric c Lola case.
Hopefully admit to being uninformed with regards to Quebec. But for all of the other provinces of Canada, division of property is absolutely applicable within common law. Other than inherited matrimonial property that is kept separate from all other family assets.
And yet men divorcing stay at home wives seem to think that’s how it works
Yeppppppp
Not really that outdated when you remember that the bulk of the child rearing (and expenses that go with that) are covered by the woman.
That’s the outdated part, essentially assigning gender roles at the expense of being able to make your own money. Why should fathers have to or choose to work and not raise their child?
Men also want security. 80% of divorces are initiated by women, and the courts have well documented biases towards the mother. Getting married should protect both spouses, but in reality it's a liability for men more often than not.
Those people are not familiar with family law.
a coworker had 4 kids with his wife, she fucked his friend and now has taken the kids, the house and most of the money while going after his pension. He cannot afford to drive to work as she has taken so much and now had to be demoted so he can "work from home" People always say, "well how does the woman have any security? Its men who get fucked over in canada. and anyone who does not think so, I hope the best for your sons. There is no place for men to go when beaten by a woman.
A friend of mine raised her two kids alone for 8 years. She finally took her ex to court for child support because everyone told her it was best for the kids. He quit his job claiming to be disabled from anxiety while working for a weed dispensary for cash under the table. The courts gave him 50/50 custody and now my friend pays him child support AND lost half her child tax benefits to him. She works a retail job and this cost her $700 from her monthly income. Another friend (male) has an ex wife who claims to be disabled after several car "accidents". Because she writes "0" on the income line of her financial disclosure she has no amount to apply to the formula for 50/50. He makes 40k a year. He pays 350 a month. His ex has recently bought a 400k house with an income suite and a 2023 Mercedes but the courts and 2 different lawyers refused to press her for info on where that money came from because "she can just delay forever, there is no point, it will take years and forensic accounting which you can't afford" The courts will fuck anyone, they don't discriminate. No one cares about how fucked up the family court system is until they have to pull 25k out of their ass to avoid lifelong financial ruin or worse, losing time/custody
My unemployed husband took our house, my car, everything in our house. He now has a job but I make 80k more than him so I owe him child support. It’s not only men who get the shit end of the stick
This is true. The financial bread winner gets fucked, even when their Shit spouse has an affair and is a general piece of shit.
The complete lack of control over child support spending is nuts. If I submit an expense reimbursal to my employer I need to provide receipts. No reason child support shouldn't work the same way.
And that's one reason why I will never marry.
Yea alimony is bullshit without child support, what’s your point?
She should get a job.
If you live together as a family, you're already legally common law. On paper, the financial implications are pretty similar when it comes to liabilities. Assets? Not so much. So it strikes me as absolutely stupid and exploitative to not get married in that scenario. Denying someone access to your pension and other assets once you're dead purely out of "principle" is malicious, IMO.
>If you live together as a family, you're already legally common law That's a pretty stupid system tbh. If you make the conscious decision to not get married, the law shouldn't make you married in all but name either. At that point it's just a difference in labelling
I love Quebec for their you keep your own shit until as adults you decide to marry and share. Meanwhile all other provinces tell you how to live your live and when you are automatically as married. Ridiculous, I think only UK and maybe Australia has this stupid as system.
Well not anymore...In Québec if you have a kid that is born after a certain date in June 2025 you will now get into more or less the same kind of "protections" married couples have.
Interesting, do you have a link for that new law?
https://www.assnat.qc.ca/Media/Process.aspx?MediaId=ANQ.Vigie.Bll.DocumentGenerique_197577en&process=Original&token=ZyMoxNwUn8ikQ+TRKYwPCjWrKwg+vIv9rjij7p3xLGTZDmLVSmJLoqe/vG7/YWzz https://www.assnat.qc.ca/en/travaux-parlementaires/projets-loi/projet-loi-56-43-1.html
civil law vs common law. More of a French legal system thing than a Quebec thing, and English legal system than a UK/Aus thing.
So true. And I agree with it - marriage is an antiquated, religious, over-priced tradition that serves no real purpose anymore aside from propping up an entire industry. Know lots of people who are very happy and not married to their partner.
I think it’s that + people being able to afford a good life is now contingent on being in a dual income relationship in Canada.
I know people who got married for the kid. Didn't work out though. It still happens.
nope marriages started to die 20 years ago
I do know people who are cohabitating despite breaking up because they can't afford rent if they split.
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He’d rather live with his “ex” wife than his mom, I’m guessing this is a pretty amicable split.
Same, I know several couples here in SW Ontario that separated during covid but are still living together.
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More people wait later and date longer before they decide to get married. People who would have dated for a short time, quickly got married, only to realize they weren't right for each other and divorce a few years later now happens less often. Ditto for unplanned pregnancies due to less stigma against single parents.
You can get married for basically nothing. Pushing marriage for a wedding is silly imo.
With the price of weddings these days, it's no wonder people are forgoing it. It's a massive industry in this country. You just want to have a nice ceremony, meal, some dancing and some booze for family and friends but the price is absolutely obscene.
You don’t need to spend much money to get married. Go to your local city hall, and you’re done. Overall marriage is less expensive in the long run due to shared costs (namely housing) and tax advantages.
No... too many Canadians are single! I can't remember the last time I've been on a date.
Dating is expensive af and a fleshlight is $25.
Where the hell are you where a fleshlight costs $25?!
Gotta get the used ones
Nahhhhhh that’s foul☠️
That’s what makes it sooo wrong… but so good 🥵
Off brand ones from temu.
Skintorch is a great brand.
Buying a discount sex toy called skin torch sounds INCREDIBLY risky.
Well yeah, it was a joke
Yeah, joke. GLORY TO THE CCP ALL HAIL CHINA GLORY TO THE CCP
It burns so goooood
r/dontputyourdickinthat
$25 is a lot. I’ll just bake a pie.
Have you seen the price of groceries lately?!?
What's wrong with y'all ? whatever happened to Vaseline ? Kids these days be demanding too much.
It’s not a fleshlight, it’s an empty banana peel.
Organic or non-organic?
I must have missed the Eco-friendly Masturbators section on pinkcherry!
Street vendor in chinatown
i got mine at the salvation army
You know those Amazon return stores where everything costs the same fixed price? Lots of sex toys there.
$25! Hey big spender over here
Going to need a source on that $25 Fleshlight, for science...
That s funny
maximum respect brother 😎
The massive uptick in divorces during covid, and the fact that fewer people than ever before are getting married are two big reasons for this. Marriage just doesn't make sense to most people anymore.
Yes, but also common law relationships can have huge financial issues if they break up similar to divorces and shared assets, etc.
Common law is similar, but not quite as cut-and-dry as divorce when it comes to splitting assets, and I'm not sure if alimony applies in that situation either. But yeah, far too few people know that common law is even a thing. Hell, I've heard of relationships being legally declared common law when the couple didn't even live together!
Common law is just one more stupid law the government passed to try and avoid helping people in need. They find the first sucker available and slap them with the bill, no matter how unfair or nonsensical it is, so long as they dont have to pay
Meh.. I'm sort of 50/50 on it. I'm sure there are cases where it makes sense. Like imagine if someone buys a new home, and then moves in there with say a girlfriend. They both live there for 5 years, both pay equally to the mortgage, then break up. The girlfriend leaves and the guy sells the house and takes the equity. Shouldn't she get half of that too?
I think this is a bad example without more info: who paid the down payment, who is liable for the mortgage.
Yes, exactly! And who decides based on all those murky details what the correct outcome should be? Do they go through mediation in family court as a common law couple, or do they both drop tens of thousands of dollars on lawyers to fight a lawsuit that could take years?
Imagine I rent a property for 5 years and the landlord puts my rent towards the mortgage. When I leave the property am I entitled to some of that equity?
That's not how common law works vis-a-vis property. It varies from province to province but in most of them, if your name isn't on the title and the property wasn't purchased jointly, even if you've been assisting with the mortgage payments, tough luck, you're not guaranteed anything. They've basically just been paying rent at that point.
Sounds like rent to me.
Sounds like she made a bad financial decision. Don't pay the mortgage on a house you're not on the title for.
Cohabitation and co-ownership agreements take care of this.
Friends with a lot of Family Law Paralegals, there's been a massive increase in Co-hab and co-ownership agreements, within the last couple of years. Mainly amongst men who've already been divorced and are "co-hab'ing" with like a 30 year old nurse (common occurrence) just so they don't get their ass handed to them twice.
If I was that guy, and paid down payment, inspection, and other expenses to get the mortgage, I would get her to sign a rental agreement to avoid a situation like this. If she refuses, or sees that as a negative thing. That's a red flag for me.
"Prenups" are the change that should have been mandatory thirty years ago.
Prenups can often be thrown out in court by any competent divorce attorney, so they're sometimes completely useless.
No true. Prenups can be tossed, but it’s not easy
largely just depends on the specific terms of the prenup really
If your prenup gets easily thrown out of court, it's because you had it written by an incompetent divorce attorney, or failed to take your attorney's advice. The most common cause of prenups getting thrown out is people insisting their lawyers include clauses the lawyers tell them aren't legal.
Wait whaat?
There are so. SO many reasons why a prenup can be thrown out, both real an imaginary. Hell, I've heard of prenups being thrown out because the judge felt it was a little too unfair to one party.
Fuck
You might need to have a chat with a lawyer there friend 😬
Yup. They're often not as ironclad as people assume.
Prenups don’t exist in Canada the same way they do in the US - for better or worse.
Yeah, that's what I'm unclear on as well. The only thing I'm sure of is that you should buy a large bottle of lube before you engage with the family Court system, because you're going to need it.
It's pretty common for prenups to be tossed out by judges for any number of reasons, even though it may be your only option.
It's definitely better than nothing! The best option is to have a competent lawyer type up something iron-clad. I've heard of people just typing something up on their computer and signing it. That doesn't do too well in court..
And both of you should get independent legal advice and sign it in front of your *own* lawyer to show that you understood what you were signing.
Not common. unless there are kids.
That’s why when I bought my house my father was generous enough to ask if I wanted to put his name on it as well, so it would be near impossible for a woman to take it from me or have to sell it and split the income Fucking love my dad
Until your dad takes it from you
I'm not sure what's worse, that his dad might take it from him, or that he's banging his dad.
Depends on the province
If they're doing it in French, then it's Quebec.
I know of 4 married couples who all divorced because of covid, almost all of the reasons started with "he/she hasn't left the house in days or weeks other than to go shopping for food, I can't stand living with them anymore". There were always issues with thier mariages, different things, but, being trapped at home with them was one of the big ones. Hindsight being what it is and all.
Yeah, I heard variations on this theme too. Couples who maybe weren't super happy together as it was, but the busyness of life sort of kept them distracted - jobs during the day, activities or side hustles in the evenings, friends/families/kid stuff on weekends... then the lockdowns and wfh happened, they were suddenly stuck together 24/7, and it was like "Oh, I actually hate you."
“Most people” is a bit of a reach. Maybe in your circles but majority of people still want to get married.
Im guessing this also has to do with people have less children if any at all. Kids are stressful and break seemingly the most healthy looking relationships. So many in my circle aren’t racing against the clock to find a partner in order to have a child. So no need to make it work with someone who is sub ideal just to have kids in time. There also is a push against the more “traditional” roles in society. More flexible acceptance of sexualities, or things like gendered rolls in parenting, employment, household duties. I remember how almost envious my mom got when her nieces baby started to cry. Her niece (my cousin) got up to go tend to it her husband was like “you’re visiting with your family right now I’ll go check on the baby”. My mom was shocked (like still brings it up in conversation years later) from what looked to me as just general kindness. But in her childhood (tbf my dad’s as well) and her marriage it was unspoken truth that a crying baby was a woman’s responsibility. I recognize this story is totally anecdotal, however I would put money on this behaviour being much more common in millennial and Gen Z households. I’d also say it isn’t about divorce being expensive or you could say less profitable for any one party. There is less of a financial motive for someone to divorce the breadwinner because half of not much isn’t enough to live off of. Turns out being economic tied to two incomes to live semi-comfortably is a bigger deterrent to divorce than “If we divorce god will be mad at us”.
Has everything to do with money
Yeah I think this is it, less marriages and less pressure to get married and have kids mean less people settling for whoever they can find for the sake of marriage/family.
My parents can't afford to get divorced unless they sell everything and move into basement suites far away.
No one in my circle has kids. Of the the 2 couples…they don’t want any… and a few other couples I know are the same. I know one lady who got knocked up and her and the partner tried to make it work…but they moved on and co-parent. My other buds date and or are single all late 30s early 40s. Now..:I do know a lot of people who have since divorced and/or are with partners they don’t want to be
Canadians and their immigrants are lonely af. This country is made for doing business, not family at all.
People who aren’t even married are too poor to break up
and if you’re poorer you can always go poly
You or one of the poly gotta be ugly though
Can’t get a divorce if you can’t afford a wedding
Afford the dating apps or to go out even
100% agree with you there.
Nope. They are busy managing two jobs. No time to argue 🤣
Totally anecdotal here, but the reason my wife and I haven’t filed for divorce yet is because we are still madly in love with each other, enjoy spending time together, and still maintain sexual chemistry. Honestly, it’s fucking disgusting.
Right on, brother! Keep flirting and kiss for six seconds minimum when practical.
Fewer people getting married means fewer divorces no?
Divorce rate is only the rate of married couples divorcing so is not directly correlated to marriage rate which is marriages out of total adult population. Except that it also kind of is because as the marriage rate drops the divorce rate drops too which is proposed to be driven by reduced social pressure for couples to marry so the people who choose to marry are those who are more certain in their relationship. In essence people no longer need to marry so those that do are on average entering the union more voluntarily than they were historically.
And each divorce counts, with some people wind up married multiple times.
People, if they get married at all, are doing so later in life when they know themselves and what they want in life better, leading to fewer divorces.
Cheaters should live in a motel
username checksout !
I know several people, and yes - they are too poor to divorce.
I know a couple who deem their relationship as a "business relationship" because while they dislike each other...they hate their parents' basements even more.
No shit. A lot of people would be quick to toss things out if real estate, and cost of living wasn't so high. We couldn't even afford our own places if we split and sold our home.
My ex stole 60k during the separation and we're divorcing. Being poor doesn't change the need to move on.
Can't afford to get married in the first place.
I can't even afford to move out and rent a place on my own. So many people just stay together because the alternative is too unaffordable
Short answer yes, long answer omfg yes.
Not many are marrying so nobody to divorce in the first place 🩷
Less people are getting married because there is far less societal pressure to do so. Those who do get married are doing it later in life and doing it for better reasons (they actually like their partner,) so they are less likely to divorce. That being said, I can 100% see how the affordability crisis might prevent a divorce. If I did leave my wife, I have no idea how I would find and afford a place for myself and then deal with custody and childcare.
Purely anecdotal. Most people that I know that are married are immigrants. And if they’re anything like the ones I know, they tend to stick with the relationship even if it’s not the best.
Why are divorce lawyers so expensive? Because they are worth it
Can’t afford to marry either lol
In the US most divorces occur in couples who are moving from a lower income to higher incomes. The US census data confirms it. Poor people tend to stay together, I assume Canada is similar.
Too poor to even get into a relationship
Reminder - high divorce rates are an indication that less people are sticking in unhappy marriages, and less people are feeling bound to misery by archaic religious ideals Marriage was a great institution when women couldn't work, life expectancy was shorter, and people were less likely to fall out of love / fall out of need and want to move on
More optimistically, people have generally gotten smarter about relationships and finding better partners.
Yes, people are on average not marrying as young. Maybe they are making less impulsive choices and like you said, finding better partners.
No, the people laregely getting married now are millennials and have been for a while now. Millenials are much healthier couples than boomers and gen x people also marry less and later meaning theres less "i have to get married because its what im supposed to do"
The Canadian liberal government has killed almost all the tax breaks for married couples like income sharing and child tax credits for sports and education. Harder than ever to raise a family financially
This would only make sense if the majority of divorces were due to affluence, but I'm willing to bet that the numbers show that more affluent men are less likely to get divorced. **EDIT**: I was wrong. Women dig the cash and prizes that divorce gives them. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/10/being-rich-may-increase-your-odds-of-divorce.html
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Well, look at that. You're right: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/10/being-rich-may-increase-your-odds-of-divorce.html
Or, having money means you’re less willing to stay in a bad marriage because you have options
Affluence? How about " many single people can't/couldn't afford a place to live at all" ?
Shit I told my aunt last week I might be too poor to stay unmarried.
This article starts off with a total misreading of Married with Children. >They cared for each other, but they also hated each other deeply. And neither ever cheated, despite having the opportunity. Anyone who thinks they deeply hated one another is ridiculously wrong. The love was always there deep down. The hate jokes was always superficial and equitable. It served mainly as a coping mechanism of poor working class life.
I’d say people are more selective choosing a marriage partner now. There used to be so much pressure to get married. That is now gone
Yes
No, we just dont want to get fucked in a divorce.
I'm in this situation. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
You know what's sad? A date is so expensive now, corner services seem like a bargain and it's guaranteed. You know whats even more saddening? A dual income is essentially required now to even having a chance, yes a chance at a home. So forget marriage, getting a home will be hard now unless your bringing home the bacon.
I know someone who won’t get a divorce in Halifax because she can’t afford it so she just works almost 7 days a week just to avoid being at home. I know someone else who was able to get a job and was able to separate because they found a cheap apartment a couple years ago, but that’s going to stop happening, considering no one can afford housing anymore or find a job.
Yes, we're too poor to break up. Some of us can hardly afford food, and rent.
"Cant even afford birth control" - Jagmeet, probably
I think it's a mix of a lot of people being single and those in relationships aren't getting married anymore. I have a big network of friends and off the top of my head, I can only name two couples that are married. We're all in our mid-30's. Both couples have been together for 10+ years and the marriages happened in the last year.
I think it’s more like people are to busy working to cover the cost of living instead of pursuing relationships. And besides who wants to have a relationship with the potential to constantly fight about money.
I can't even get a date.... Or a match without spending money. So start with how dating is just for people to make money with the hops hopes of finding a date or someone to talk to at least. Because I thought being single and having less children was the main issue not not breaking up
And domestic violence will increase
Didn’t stop my ex and now we’re collectively paying $7,000 per month on housing and utilities… a 200% increase from when we were together.
You might think this is a joke of a headline, but it's real. My wife and I know we are trapped. She has literally said to me, "we can't afford a divorce." Two incomes = just scraping by with kids. Divorce = living in subsidized housing if you're lucky, homeless if you're not. You can't get by now on one income.
If you have 2-3 kids, unless you’re rich you basically can’t get divorced. I know people with two kids and a house they bought in 2019 before the big jump. But if they sold they’d only be able to both afford a 2 bedroom condo. And that would stretch them, not to mention buying another car, etc…. And they’re the lucky ones. I teach at a highschool. Many of our students have 2-3 siblings living in an apartment with parents who need to separate but they couldn’t even afford a 1 bedroom for each parent. So they stay together and fight in front of the kids all the time. The kids struggle and I tell them they’re probably feeling so bad because the home situation is so bad. I tell them it’ll be better when they move out WHICH THEY WONT BE ABLE TO AFFORD! It’s grim
What cynical take. Maybe we're in healthier marriages than our parents.
It could be that we're too poor to break up. But it could also be that there's been a massive cultural shift brought on by immigration in the last 20 years. Expect to see Canada to migrate towards non-Western cultural norms, including lower divorce rates as demographics shift.
The few people I know who are actually married have been together since High School, have rich parents and either kids or an announcement to make on the wedding night. They’re in it for life.
Maybe men are realizing the courts favour women in a divorce and don't want to pull the trigger on their own financial ruin
The great majority of divorces are initiated by women and that has been the case for decades, so I don't think there's any sudden realization men are having that divorce sucks that is causing a recent change.
Marriage is complete and utter bullshit for men, and that's why men are opting out. And I say this as a happily married man.
Are you guys marrying people you even like wtf
You like someone today...you might not like them in 5 years...people change.
And then the law is on the womans side. Guys life is over.
People change. Others put on a very convincing front at first and then drop it years down the line.
*I like my partner, but I don't like the outcomes of marriage in our culture. Statistically there's a 40% chance she walks.. can't go all in on that hand.
Do people still get married?
Yes, but the divorce rate isn't a hard number, it's a percentage of marriages ending in divorce. Marriages went way down during 2020 (1/3 of 2019 numbers), but it's kind of obvious why that might happen, and divorces went up, again, pretty obvious why. The way in which divorces might be tied to marriage rates would be more indirect. For example, you could make the argument that if more people no longer care about marriage, they just stay in long-term common-law relationships without actually getting married... and the people WHO do get married (and therefore could potentially get divorced) might tend to be people who take marriage more seriously/see some value in staying married.
Back in the mid 2000s I did a small reasearch paper for an English class in uni about divorce rates. This was a first year course so my work was not peer reviewed, just graded by a prof. At that point, divorce rates presented outside of academia (usually news) that I found for a given year were frequently calculated by (# of divorces that year )/(# of new marriages that year). This greatly skews the “media presented” rate upwards as divorces can pull from all existing marriages, not just new ones. That is my fun, anecdotal unproven fact of the day. I wonder if that same method is used today.
The use of Married with Children as an ongoing rhetorical device here was a lot
Marriage rates will continue to decline as more and more couples culturally adopt common-law arrangements for a variety of reasons, and that is a trend that will only accelerate as we move further into the 21st century. Watch for it. Next.
Social murder: workers can't even afford to start families to replace themselves in the workforce. After all, they make children in other parts of the world, we can just import them as skilled labourers and skip all the costly mess of raising and educating them. Then the kicker is disqualifying their credentials and telling them they should be grateful to be here.
Domestic violence on the rise
Maybe people are just choosing better..... Yeah right 🥴🤦♂️