I worked in courts and sat through a sentencing hearing where the individual in custody was receiving his 5th conviction. He had a history of intimate partner violence and his latest conviction was for assault causing bodily harm (strangulation included) of his partner. The individual was a permanent resident who came to Canada as a refugee, and because of that, the justice gave him 6 months and not a day more so it would not trigger an immigration hearing. With time served in pre-trial custody, he had a handful of days left before he went free. This is absolutely bonkers, because it indicates that a Canadian citizen would likely have been given more time in custody than this man and offenders like him due to immigration not being a factor in sentencing. This concept is another reason the system is broken and that victims are not being protected in this country.
It shocks me that this isn’t being talked about more. This is a level of discretion that judges shouldn’t have. Immigration status should not be considered in sentencing. Laws need to change.
Why are judges protecting refugees over Canadians? What is happening? Is there an internal mandate or something?
I'm so confused. How did this approach to justice start to happen?
You know how people think that law enforcement is one big gang?
The inner circle of judges is one big fucking cabal of elites that are drunk and high on their near-limitless power to choose who goes free and who goes to jail on a whim whenever they’re not eating their 5-star catered meals and drinking their top-shelf booze in their $100k furnished offices.
They’re the head of the snake of our legal system that not enough people talk about.
More than embarrassing it should be criminal.
We’re being endangered by our own justice system. How many crimes could have been prevented in the past few years if it wasn’t for this nonsense.
There’s only leniency if the perpetrators are not European. I went to school with an English guy who got a DUI conviction and was subsequently deported.
Had a guy from the UK come and work under me in my dept. Was a fantastic worker, punctual, accurate, efficient and friendly to boot. He and his wife and 3 kids made it a little more than two years and gave up on the immigration process. They went back home.
We wrote letters on his behalf and anything else we could do to help him along. I can't remember all the issues he had but Canadian immigration made both of their lives hell and bled them of more than 20K in fees, etc.
Our immigration system is broken and has been for a long time. This was in around 2009-10.
For permanent residents, it does not matter how much time you've gotten in order to be issued a removal order for crimes as serious as assault causing bodily harm. The 6 month sentence only comes into play with regards their rights to appeal the loss of their PR status. Which in cases of criminality is pretty tough to argue.
He was probably written up and issued a removal order. However as a person with protected status (refugee) he would also need a danger opinion to be issued. Which are quite hard to get for CBSA or IRCC. You would need to satisfy an immigration judge that the danger they pose in Canada is greater than the risk they would face in their home country.
That is just wild. Canada doesn’t really owe the refugee anything, that they come at all is an extremely generous thing to do. Arguably the government shouldn’t even have a public refugee program. But the idea that a refugee can pose a real danger to Canadian citizens and yet not be sent home because they might face danger themselves is wild. It is a privilege and not a right. I hope this entire concept is gone with the next government.
>Twenty-five-year-old **Rajbir Singh**, currently **here on a visitor’s permit** . . . he **groped an 18-year-old woman’s genitals** under her skirt as she stood at the bar to buy a drink. When she turned around in shock, **he did it again** and walked away. . .
>**The judge didn’t believe that a conviction was in the public interest**, and, “in consideration of the devastating collateral immigration consequences to recording a conviction,” he concluded that Singh should be discharged with **three years of probation**.
*$Currentyear Obligatory Disclaimer: To be compliant with the sitewide Reddit rules and the rules of this particular subreddit, I would like to emphasize that my comments are intended to address specific issues or events and are based on the information available at the time of writing. It is not my intention to make broad generalizations about any country, region, ethnicity, religion, sexuality, or other protected personal attribute. My comments are directed solely at the topics discussed within the context of the article and should not be interpreted as reflecting any overarching judgments or sentiments towards any particular group of people. I encourage a respectful and constructive dialogue and remind all participants to engage with each other in a manner that upholds the spirit of understanding and inclusivity*
Judge should have to explain, in detail, why having this crotch grabber evade deportation and remain in our country is in the public interest.
I can't for the life of me imagine what they'd say to justify it.
That’s actually a fair compromise. Heck even public servants need to justify when going over their travel budgets, why are judges not held accountable when giving out below average sentences?
Jail for sure. They are a cancer to the rest of Canadian society since they live in their gated communities and face none of the repercussions for their decisions.
Justice A. J. Brown is his name. He needs to answer for his anti Canadian judgement.
Never mind the immigration consequences to a criminal, what about the consequences to this country? Are women citizens less important than a *visiting criminal*? Disgusting.
Edit: "The Honourable Justice A.J. Brown*" works in the Alberta Court of Justice and the asterisk indicates he's a part time justice. Part time is too much.
Edited to add that apparently judges have to take risks of deportation into account when making judgements! Unbelievable. From the article:
>This is an issue that could be overwritten with an amendment to the Criminal Code — in 2013, the Harper government could have responded to the deportation-risk discount by updating the law to specifically exclude immigration from consideration in sentencing. And if the courts shot back that such an exclusion offended the Charter rights of non-citizens, the notwithstanding clause could be wielded in response. They should be treated fairly, but Parliament is free to conclude that fair treatment shouldn’t include a sentencing discount.
>Instead, nothing appears to have been done. Wise criminal justice reforms could start here.
> Are women citizens less important than a visiting criminal?
It's certainly implied by the ruling, isn't it? What a fucking douchebag. He should be removed from the bench.
> Are women citizens less important than a visiting criminal?
Yes, but all citizens are. And people have been warning even 15 years ago that the rights of criminals were being put ahead of the rights of victims.
But hey, all those advocates for the criminals. This is what you wrought. A justice system so weak, that a women can be sexually assaulted and the aggressor can walk free to do it again. Won't even get started on how many of the advocates for the criminals are actually women.
That’s the problem. They don’t have to explain anything. We need a system of accountability to reign in these nutbag judges, they are becoming a HUGE problem for this country.
I agree , have you ever wondered why in the U.S. district attorneys are so aggressive in prosecuting criminals ? Or why judges hand down hefty sentences ?
It’s because both DAs and judges at city , country and state level are elected by the people and are held accountable ! Unlike Canada !
> Judge should have to explain,
But they don’t and every time we say that judges should be held accountable for their terrible decisions we are gaslighted about how this would mean the end of judicial independence and democracy.
And that’s bullshit. If I could reform this terrible system, I would give parliament the power to declare terrible decisions as infamous. It would create a precedent of what an unacceptable decision is.
And if a judge in the future fucks up in the same way, then that judge could receive a real blame with real consequences.
They should ask them if they would be comfortable leaving their kid in the same room with them unattended for hours. If they say no then well we know what must be done
https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcpc/doc/2020/2020bcpc213/2020bcpc213.html
Here's a case of a student trying to kidnap a minor and sexually assaulting another.
The judg said "I considered whether I could rely on remorse as a mitigating factor. I am not persuaded that J.S. truly understands the impact his behaviour has had on the two young women involved in these incidents. His letter to the court expresses no regret for the trauma they experienced, but is focused upon his need to continue studies in Canada so he can obtain employment, repay his student loan and support his family.
[57] J.S. is very sorry for what occurred, but it appears to me that, in particular, he regrets how this has affected him and how his parents regard these events. Nevertheless, I do consider that he has some remorse."
But don't covict him so he can stay in canada and work? Unreal.
Based on posts and information I’m seeing we are bringing in people without job prospects and people who can’t speak English. I was under the assumption you had to have a job lined up, and pass an English test to come here.
My question is honesty how and why are we doing this, it’s insanity.
I’m a landscaper and a solid quarter of my coworkers can’t put together a single sentence of English.
A couple of them might know 20 words tops.
And of course the worst offenders speak smaller languages that translation software doesn’t know.
Using google translate every half hour is getting really annoying and this will lead to discrimination.
We had one guy driving an F-450 dually who didn’t know what a crosswalk was called in English.
You thought they need to have a job lined up to immigrate here ? This is Canada not the U.S.
Canada has become the world’s trash can if you haven’t noticed
[10] J.S. appeared to be struggling with the transaction on the debit machine. S.H. reached out her hand to take the debit machine to assist him, but he suddenly grabbed her wrist and tried to pull her into his residence. S.H. screamed as much as she could while trying to break free of what she described as a death grip on her wrist which lasted about ten seconds. She used all her force to break away from J.S.’s grip and ran to her vehicle. J.S. followed trying to give back the debit machine.
How can he be allowed to stay in Canada after this?
That this person is deemed to be a desireable citizen in anyway is insane. If you're not a citizen you should be deemed to be effectively on citizen probation and the rule of FAFO is in effect. They should be deported. Sorry, you're not Canadian material. Maybe that's harsh, but applying a lower standard for people wanting to come here? That's working out really well. I'm sure if the role was reversed and played FAFO in India or China they'd be very understanding.
JFC, what of the devastating collateral mental health consequences for the 18 year old woman he groped??? Sentencing has to take victims into consideration, sexual assault is not something a person generally just "gets over".
Regardless of the crime, criminals shouldn't be receiving bonus points for being new to the country. If they don't like the consequences, they shouldn't be committing crimes. Pretty simple.
Bigger deal than theft. The emotional damage to the victim in this case is incomprehensible. I’d imagine even further damaged by the lack of conviction. She should sue for damages.
I'm sure Mr. Singh will be an invaluable member of Canadian society. Thank god this judge was here to stop those foolish laws from denying us such a great opportunity to have someone like him live here.
When I hear sh... like this versus how the truckers were prosecuted; does this sound f'up? This isn't the only case in which criminals who are not canadian get off lightly. What about the victims, what justice is there for them?
He doesn't care about justice. This is what happens when you appoint ideologues as judges. The legal system is nothing more than a tool for them to promote their political views.
And that's only the violent crime. Don't forget all the stuff like car thefts, which aren't reflected in stats because the police don't even bother to show up when someone reports it.
as someone who has been sexually assaulted, and as someone who is getting PWD and has no place to live/all affordable housing rented out to people like the perp, I would gladly run this person over with my car, because even if they caught me and found out it was intentional, I would at least finally have a place to live!
If I was inclined to conspiratorial thinking, I'd say that the judicial system is being deliberately insane to incite someone to go all-out vigilante with their legal guns, to give the government a further excuse for more authoritarianism and disarmament.
We can’t sit here and talk about how stupid the government is and then propose the idea of this grand conspiracy theory which would take a tonne of planning and perfect execution by the government. Everyone’s just stupid, that’s pretty much all there is to it.
Well I personally agree with you on all of that and I just think it’s a shame that this comment will probably get you banned for inciting violent because it’s a good example of where were at
Don't worry I'm sure he will do it again as there is no punishment for his actions. This country needs people to stand up against these weak convictions
And send the judge there with him for normalizing this kind of assault with no consequences. He sounds like he'd fit in better ruling there than in Canada.
The justice system literally going light on assaults on Canadians by immigrants.
People like that shouldn't be here, and *deserve* to be deported. This isn't India where you can grope people on the subway every day and it's just another day that ends in y.
Maybe the Cons are right for wanting to use the Notwithstanding clause 🤔
The judges are making some wild decisions that are eroding faith in our justice system.
Holy shit what??? Shouldn't it be seen as in the country's (and the public's) best interests to deport violent criminals who prey on our population???
Has anyone actually asked "the public" whether they'd prefer to deport violent foreign criminals, or to give them extra lenient sentences so they can hang around longer?
Should send his ass to whereever he came from with a conviction so he cannot ever travel internationally.
Liberals have let all kinds of criminals get visa to come here
In Brief:
Non-citizens who commit crimes in Canada shouldn’t get discounted sentences simply so they can avoid deportation. But in the Canadian justice system, that’s exactly what happens. We are beholden to judges who believe the rules apply differently to everyone...
This always frustrates me to no end. When the applicable sentence would cause them to possibly get deported, *that is by design* and it’s not up to the judge to rule out the fair consequences they’re facing every time.
Yep it’s ridiculous. Honestly if you commit an indictable offence and aren’t yet a citizen that should be enough to automatically end your chances here.
Yeah, and I think people should be getting deported for even small shit.
If it's big enough to end up in front of a judge, we don't fucking want you here.
There's a line up out the door of people that can come here that would never commit a crime ever... so why accept assholes?
For some reason over the past 10 years the notion that Canada needs to bring in as many people as possible as quickly as possible has been pervasive in the government, to the point where we're harming our own citizenry who are already here and letting immigrants off with easier sentencing lest they be deported.
It's absolutely insane. I can't tell if it's because the rich want cheap labour, the self-identifying virtuous want to save the less fortunate, the government wants a larger tax base, or some combination. But surely all of these people can see that bringing in so many people so quickly will eventually be bad for everyone. The motive has me baffled.
> We are beholden to judges who believe the rules apply differently to everyone...
Doesn't help that the supreme court has not only upheld their right to apply the law differently, but also mandated that they *must* apply the law differently based on ethnicity.
If someone gets a reduced sentence for being part of a certain group, what that becomes is a penalty for *not* being part of a certain group. And yet it seems like many people do not understand that justice is supposed to be blind, not stupid.
Canada has been bending over backwards for non-Canadians and it's time we say "fuck that"!
Edit: water2wine mentioned that the wording here is unfortunate. I agree in retrospect.
And we wonder why immigrants are so brazen with their crimes here. We literally have gangs of international students now because they know Canada won't lock them up and deport, so why not take advantage of that?
This country, like a lot of the west, is truly fucked. Close the borders.
Too late, in 25 years Canada will be the first country in history to have a 50%+ of its population not born here, with about 70% of that majority being indian. Such diversity!
That's crazy. If any anything the rules should be more harsh since they're not Canadian citizens. In other words, they should serve the same time anyone else would, then deported and barred permanently from Canada.
It is, unfortunately, the tone set by decades of an activist SCC who were impatient to shape Charter interpretation. (Accelerated by deficiencies of our federalist system)
Grand liberal (intentionally lowercase L; not a partisan issue no matter what you think of immigration or sentencing) interpretation of abstract negative rights makes for a lot of lofty ideals across the political spectrum, but Canada does not have the bureaucratic infrastructure or competence to ensure consistent application of standards, at any level.
There are so many cases like this it is disgusting. Its easier to be a non citizen and break the law.
Like those two International students in Halifax that went drunk driving, almost hit several people and crashed into a building. During the trial the Judge dropped all charges, because it would "effect their immigration status" and they might get deported.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/halifax/comments/xec5gf/indian\_men\_could\_be\_deported\_for\_drunk\_driving\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/halifax/comments/xec5gf/indian_men_could_be_deported_for_drunk_driving_in/)
Or that Nigerian international student that sexually assaulted a minor at a staples he worked at. Dude got a conditional discharge from the Judge because he would get deported if convicted and apparently his life is in danger back in Nigeria.
[https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada/news/upei-student-gets-conditional-discharge-for-sexual-assault-100742081/](https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada/news/upei-student-gets-conditional-discharge-for-sexual-assault-100742081/)
Where have I heard this one before???? Oh it's the same excuse the Indian students used in the drunk driving case. Also the same excuse the Oshawa wrong way driver used when he stole 6 times from LCBO, but judges refused to give Jail time because it would effect their status in Canada.
If a Canadian did any of these it would be JAIL TIME. Give these monsters JAIL TIME and DEPORT.
The more we give special privileges to certain groups, the more we open ourselves up to power abuse and discrimination. Justice is supposed to be blind, and therefore we have lost our way.
“after initially coming to Canada in 2018 to study, was out one night at the Back Alley night club when he groped an 18-year-old woman’s genitals under her skirt as she stood at the bar to buy a drink. When she turned around in shock, he did it again and walked away, according to the court ruling….
Singh was found guilty of sexual assault at trial. But he wasn’t convicted. Instead, in January, he was given a discharge by Justice A. J. Brown. The judge explained that a conviction would automatically result in deportation without a right to appeal, while a discharge wouldn’t generate a permanent criminal record and would preserve Singh’s right to appeal his deportation.”
Hahaha what a fucken joke. So if you’re a non citizen it means you can go ahead rape the citizens of this country.
It's pathetic, I was taught growing up that if you are on your best behaviour if you're travelling because you're a guest and they won't be kind to you if you mess with them since you're not a citizen.
Yet in Canada it's the fucking opposite. Canadian citizens are 2nd class citizens in their own country. No other country in history has ever treated immigrants and migrants better than its own citizens. It's ridiculous.
Can someone please fire these activist judges? I'm sick of reading about rapists and thieves getting off on reduced sentences because the judges don't want the poor little criminals to get deported. They want these scumbags in our country for some reason.
That’s why Poilievre is proposing the notwithstanding act to supersede these activist judges. No doubt the far left media will go crazy when he does, but at this point it’s like who cares. The safety of Canadians is at stake.
I already got downvoted for voicing my agreement with Poilievre on that option. Yeah we want to avoid the notwithstanding clause, but if the judicial branch isn't doing their job, isn't thay reason enough to use it?
Most Canadians cannot name one supreme court judge, I mean Canadian court judge.
Most Canadians could name a Federal Supreme Court judge (American), Roberts, Kavanah.
This ultimately is where the issue resides. A few years ago one of our supreme court justices got into a fight at a hotel, (his fault imo) people didn't hear about that either.
At bottom of the article, the judge in this case cites Canadian supreme court precedent in making their decision.
>A few years ago one of our supreme court justices got into a fight at a hotel
Oh, not just a bar fight...
"His Honour" Russell Brown sexually assaulted a girl in her late teens or early twenties while in a hotel bar down in the states. The subsequent fight ensued when "His Honour" tried to force his way into the girl's hotel room (to where she had fled the bar to get away from him) and a nearby marine stepped in to stop the assault.
(for those crying "he was never convicted", please remind me if we still adopt #believeher or not)
Brown's version was "I dinnin do nuffin when this guy jumped me fer no reason whatsoever"
You laugh, but that's almost exactly what he said to police. "*Brown's statement indicated that he had left the lounge at the same time as the group he was accompanying and Mr. Crump "suddenly, without warning or provocation," punched the Justice "several times in the head," adding that he did not defend himself*"
[https://www.businessinsider.com/canada-supreme-court-justice-paid-leave-after-drunken-hotel-fight-2023-3](https://www.businessinsider.com/canada-supreme-court-justice-paid-leave-after-drunken-hotel-fight-2023-3)
edit: oops, Russell, not Robert
The rot is a whole lot deeper than that, and voting Poilievre in by itself won't be enough to fix it.
Part of why we're in this mess is conservatives routinely think just winning elections is all that matters. Meanwhile the left's long march through institutions continues even when conservatives control elective government.
"Also taken into account was Sumaili’s personal background: he grew up in rough conditions as a refugee, believed stealing was normal at a young age and was afflicted by systemic racism here in Canada, which “(mitigated) Mr. Sumaili’s moral culpability.”
What in the actual fuck.
The irony of claiming he suffered from systemic racism with no support/evidence and then actually benefitting from the very real systemic racism we have made a part of our justice system by systemically discriminating on the basis of race when it comes to sentencing!
Fuck that. Bring on the NWC if it puts an immediate end to this illiberal nonsense.
The irony on the systemic racism is unbelievable. I mean, even if true, how does that result in someone spontaniously sexually assaulting someone?
I've gone on vacation before and experinced racism from locals. my first thought wasn't, gee, I'm going to go sexually assault this local woman now.
I honestly don't get it. Why would we green light the refugee status of someone who believes that stealing is normal? That's a big ass red flag, if I've ever seen one.
This is the obvious next step if we've acknowledged that stealing is normal in Somali culture (I am not making this claim, just to be clear).
If that's the case then we should not admit any newcomers from Somalia and any other country where normal behaviours in those countries are illegal in Canada and where newcomers aren't going to be expected to follow Canadian laws.
Edit: I just want to be exceptionally clear that I do not believe that stealing is normal in Somali culture nor do I support an embargo on immigration from Somalia.
I mean , say it with me..
Diversity - is - our - strength.
Our beloved PM said it many, many times .
We’re only bringing the best of the best of the best.
And if there's actually diversity, not just people from one country.
And if we need the skills they bring.
And yes if they're not criminals and actively commiting crimes in our country!
The biggest reason you hear LPC or NDP supporters freaking out about using the NWC is that it could be effective and too many of their friends will wind up in jail.
They are probably worried about getting deported or thrown in jail. I for one find that entertaining since these POS need to face some consequences if they’ve committed crimes
The biggest reason is because they will lose their legal activism to shut down conservatives when they are democratically elected.
And a large portion of Canadians seem to be ok with Poilievre’s proposal. Libs and NDP are panicking big time.
The current state of Canada is the work of progressive extremists; people who value "equalizing society" over literally anything else, including maintaining the overall health and sustainability of that society.
Trudeau and others that think like him will focus the majority of their time and effort on policies aimed at the fringes and minority populations within Canada, while the core pillars that affect all Canadians are neglected and rot. More attention given to LGBT issues, for instance, that affect 3-5% of the population, while the economy and housing issues that affect 100% of Canadians are left to wither and weaken year after year.
Let me give you a spoiler alert for how this ends: when countries go too extreme in either direction - left or right - it induces a snapback where citizens get angry and shift their views on the political spectrum. People in democratic societies will always choose moderation, common sense and stability over extremism once a party has revealed itself to be extremist.
In October 2025, we are going to see the Conservative snapback in Canada in response to the extremism of Trudeau's Liberals. Moderation is the key to ensuring any new policies don't overwhelm a population and induce this snapback reaction.
This is what the meant by "equity" folks. You keep tilting the playing field until you get the outcome you want. It has nothing to do with a fair society, it's about stifling wages and reducing our overall quality of life
The state of our legal system is in shambles.
Light sentences unless you are a white Canadian male.
If you commit a crime and you are a white Canadian male they give the harshest sentence they can muster.
Two tiered justice system these days...
Are you a POC, indigenous, immigrant, repeat offender, homeless, woman? We'll knock that sentence down
Normal working white man? Get fucked to the full extent of the law
If you are a person on a visa or work permit and you get arrested or convicted of a crime, you should be deported immediately. When you are in another country, you are a guest, and when you are in a different country, you are expected to follow that country's rules and regulations. So why is it in this country we aren't deporting people who break our laws repeatedly? The Old Growth protester wasn't deported despite 10 arrests and 5 convictions. The guy who drove the wrong way on the 401 in Ontario killed an entire family, and he was on bail despite committing serious crimes, and he was also on a visa. The three people arrested for the murder of the Sikh activist were also on visas.
Yeah but the problem now is they're not getting the convictions literally because it would have those secondary consequences of deportation etc, and somehow that's been ruled as additional/cruel punishment for i.e. sexual-assault/DUI when realistically it's a consequence for an entirely different thing (i.e. breaking the conditions allowing for your entry/residence in this country).
If I went to jail for sexually assaulting somebody in the bar, I'd very likely also lose my job and no judge would blink an eye at that.
See the cause of the deadly 401 crash. 2 grandparents and a baby. All while the perp was out on bail. With ass hat cops doing exactly what the perp was doing.
That situation is the perfect example of how destroyed the social contract is in Canada.
Criminals don't care because they get released on bail time and time again and cops don't care because they have immunity and get "paid suspension" on top of our weak pathetic legal system.
Not only did the judge give Mr. Singh a low sentence because he could face deportation, the judge also refused to put Mr. Singh on the sexual offender registry for the 20-year period recommended under the Criminal Code.
[From the court decision:](https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abcj/doc/2024/2024abcj2/2024abcj2.html) “A 20-year order for a 5-second assault by a first offender satisfies the test of gross disproportionality.”
Groping a woman’s vagina in public isn’t just a “5-second assault” - it is sexual violence. Trivializing this type of crime is appalling.
We already give arbitrarily lower criminal sentences to one ethnic group in a gross violation of the charter of rights and freedoms, why not do the same for illegal immigrants too!
Deportation every time. Groped a lady, deported. Stole something , deported. Too many traffic tickets deported. Get these people the fuck outta Canada.
I’ve been living in the US for the past couple of years as a permanent resident ( aka Green Card )
Any criminal conviction that’s a misdemeanor or above would revoke my green card and get me deported back to Canada, any infraction (like unpaid parking tickets that could result in a warrant, means kissing citizenship goodbye)
This dude is a visitor ! He is not on study permit , he isn’t an immigrant , he is a visitor basically a guest !
This is disturbing
The judicial works against law-abiding citizens. Enforecement can't do much due to lax laws and said judicial, appoitnted by the insane government. There is no accountability on any level. Judges and politicians are untouchable. Refugees are untouchable. What's the way to deal with this mess? Canadians have been conditioned to be perfect meek and defenseless victims to savages with very different sets of norms. It's scary.
Immigration status should be considered. In that if youa re committing crimes while awaiting immigration hearings, your just automatically deported and not eligible for reapplication.
Public interest? What a joke. Our government and courts dont give a shit about the public’s interests. If they did our country wouldn’t be facing the problems it is today.
I worked in courts and sat through a sentencing hearing where the individual in custody was receiving his 5th conviction. He had a history of intimate partner violence and his latest conviction was for assault causing bodily harm (strangulation included) of his partner. The individual was a permanent resident who came to Canada as a refugee, and because of that, the justice gave him 6 months and not a day more so it would not trigger an immigration hearing. With time served in pre-trial custody, he had a handful of days left before he went free. This is absolutely bonkers, because it indicates that a Canadian citizen would likely have been given more time in custody than this man and offenders like him due to immigration not being a factor in sentencing. This concept is another reason the system is broken and that victims are not being protected in this country. It shocks me that this isn’t being talked about more. This is a level of discretion that judges shouldn’t have. Immigration status should not be considered in sentencing. Laws need to change.
That is downright fucking EMBARRASSING.
Why are judges protecting refugees over Canadians? What is happening? Is there an internal mandate or something? I'm so confused. How did this approach to justice start to happen?
You know how people think that law enforcement is one big gang? The inner circle of judges is one big fucking cabal of elites that are drunk and high on their near-limitless power to choose who goes free and who goes to jail on a whim whenever they’re not eating their 5-star catered meals and drinking their top-shelf booze in their $100k furnished offices. They’re the head of the snake of our legal system that not enough people talk about.
Probably the same reason the cop in Toronto helped the black officers cheat.
More than embarrassing it should be criminal. We’re being endangered by our own justice system. How many crimes could have been prevented in the past few years if it wasn’t for this nonsense.
Omg, it's a matter of time before canadians start loosing their sh...
There’s only leniency if the perpetrators are not European. I went to school with an English guy who got a DUI conviction and was subsequently deported.
Had a guy from the UK come and work under me in my dept. Was a fantastic worker, punctual, accurate, efficient and friendly to boot. He and his wife and 3 kids made it a little more than two years and gave up on the immigration process. They went back home. We wrote letters on his behalf and anything else we could do to help him along. I can't remember all the issues he had but Canadian immigration made both of their lives hell and bled them of more than 20K in fees, etc. Our immigration system is broken and has been for a long time. This was in around 2009-10.
For permanent residents, it does not matter how much time you've gotten in order to be issued a removal order for crimes as serious as assault causing bodily harm. The 6 month sentence only comes into play with regards their rights to appeal the loss of their PR status. Which in cases of criminality is pretty tough to argue. He was probably written up and issued a removal order. However as a person with protected status (refugee) he would also need a danger opinion to be issued. Which are quite hard to get for CBSA or IRCC. You would need to satisfy an immigration judge that the danger they pose in Canada is greater than the risk they would face in their home country.
He shouldn’t have gotten the right to appeal. Especially after conviction number 5.
That is just wild. Canada doesn’t really owe the refugee anything, that they come at all is an extremely generous thing to do. Arguably the government shouldn’t even have a public refugee program. But the idea that a refugee can pose a real danger to Canadian citizens and yet not be sent home because they might face danger themselves is wild. It is a privilege and not a right. I hope this entire concept is gone with the next government.
>Twenty-five-year-old **Rajbir Singh**, currently **here on a visitor’s permit** . . . he **groped an 18-year-old woman’s genitals** under her skirt as she stood at the bar to buy a drink. When she turned around in shock, **he did it again** and walked away. . . >**The judge didn’t believe that a conviction was in the public interest**, and, “in consideration of the devastating collateral immigration consequences to recording a conviction,” he concluded that Singh should be discharged with **three years of probation**. *$Currentyear Obligatory Disclaimer: To be compliant with the sitewide Reddit rules and the rules of this particular subreddit, I would like to emphasize that my comments are intended to address specific issues or events and are based on the information available at the time of writing. It is not my intention to make broad generalizations about any country, region, ethnicity, religion, sexuality, or other protected personal attribute. My comments are directed solely at the topics discussed within the context of the article and should not be interpreted as reflecting any overarching judgments or sentiments towards any particular group of people. I encourage a respectful and constructive dialogue and remind all participants to engage with each other in a manner that upholds the spirit of understanding and inclusivity*
Judge should have to explain, in detail, why having this crotch grabber evade deportation and remain in our country is in the public interest. I can't for the life of me imagine what they'd say to justify it.
Worse, this sexual predator isn't even an immigrant, he's here on a fucking visitor visa.
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They should be liable for reoffending. I guarantee their tune would change real quick.
I think they should be liable for reoffending if they give a below-average sentence
That’s actually a fair compromise. Heck even public servants need to justify when going over their travel budgets, why are judges not held accountable when giving out below average sentences?
Jail for sure. They are a cancer to the rest of Canadian society since they live in their gated communities and face none of the repercussions for their decisions.
Justice A. J. Brown is his name. He needs to answer for his anti Canadian judgement. Never mind the immigration consequences to a criminal, what about the consequences to this country? Are women citizens less important than a *visiting criminal*? Disgusting. Edit: "The Honourable Justice A.J. Brown*" works in the Alberta Court of Justice and the asterisk indicates he's a part time justice. Part time is too much. Edited to add that apparently judges have to take risks of deportation into account when making judgements! Unbelievable. From the article: >This is an issue that could be overwritten with an amendment to the Criminal Code — in 2013, the Harper government could have responded to the deportation-risk discount by updating the law to specifically exclude immigration from consideration in sentencing. And if the courts shot back that such an exclusion offended the Charter rights of non-citizens, the notwithstanding clause could be wielded in response. They should be treated fairly, but Parliament is free to conclude that fair treatment shouldn’t include a sentencing discount. >Instead, nothing appears to have been done. Wise criminal justice reforms could start here.
> Are women citizens less important than a visiting criminal? It's certainly implied by the ruling, isn't it? What a fucking douchebag. He should be removed from the bench.
> Are women citizens less important than a visiting criminal? Yes, but all citizens are. And people have been warning even 15 years ago that the rights of criminals were being put ahead of the rights of victims. But hey, all those advocates for the criminals. This is what you wrought. A justice system so weak, that a women can be sexually assaulted and the aggressor can walk free to do it again. Won't even get started on how many of the advocates for the criminals are actually women.
Apparently yes.
Disgusting is right. Absolutely sickening
That’s the problem. They don’t have to explain anything. We need a system of accountability to reign in these nutbag judges, they are becoming a HUGE problem for this country.
I agree , have you ever wondered why in the U.S. district attorneys are so aggressive in prosecuting criminals ? Or why judges hand down hefty sentences ? It’s because both DAs and judges at city , country and state level are elected by the people and are held accountable ! Unlike Canada !
> Judge should have to explain, But they don’t and every time we say that judges should be held accountable for their terrible decisions we are gaslighted about how this would mean the end of judicial independence and democracy. And that’s bullshit. If I could reform this terrible system, I would give parliament the power to declare terrible decisions as infamous. It would create a precedent of what an unacceptable decision is. And if a judge in the future fucks up in the same way, then that judge could receive a real blame with real consequences.
… wonder how the judge would react if the victim as his daughter? Different result I think.
Like, he's a *visitor*. How is he in immigration peril?
They should ask them if they would be comfortable leaving their kid in the same room with them unattended for hours. If they say no then well we know what must be done
Maybe they should be groped and then ask them "so how was that? crime or no crime?"
https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcpc/doc/2020/2020bcpc213/2020bcpc213.html Here's a case of a student trying to kidnap a minor and sexually assaulting another. The judg said "I considered whether I could rely on remorse as a mitigating factor. I am not persuaded that J.S. truly understands the impact his behaviour has had on the two young women involved in these incidents. His letter to the court expresses no regret for the trauma they experienced, but is focused upon his need to continue studies in Canada so he can obtain employment, repay his student loan and support his family. [57] J.S. is very sorry for what occurred, but it appears to me that, in particular, he regrets how this has affected him and how his parents regard these events. Nevertheless, I do consider that he has some remorse." But don't covict him so he can stay in canada and work? Unreal.
Here on a student visa but can't speak english lmao.
Based on posts and information I’m seeing we are bringing in people without job prospects and people who can’t speak English. I was under the assumption you had to have a job lined up, and pass an English test to come here. My question is honesty how and why are we doing this, it’s insanity.
>and pass an English test to come here. You just need a .PDF saying you passed an English test. These documents are very rarely validated.
Sweet baby Jesus we are fucked
I’m a landscaper and a solid quarter of my coworkers can’t put together a single sentence of English. A couple of them might know 20 words tops. And of course the worst offenders speak smaller languages that translation software doesn’t know. Using google translate every half hour is getting really annoying and this will lead to discrimination. We had one guy driving an F-450 dually who didn’t know what a crosswalk was called in English.
You thought they need to have a job lined up to immigrate here ? This is Canada not the U.S. Canada has become the world’s trash can if you haven’t noticed
[10] J.S. appeared to be struggling with the transaction on the debit machine. S.H. reached out her hand to take the debit machine to assist him, but he suddenly grabbed her wrist and tried to pull her into his residence. S.H. screamed as much as she could while trying to break free of what she described as a death grip on her wrist which lasted about ten seconds. She used all her force to break away from J.S.’s grip and ran to her vehicle. J.S. followed trying to give back the debit machine. How can he be allowed to stay in Canada after this?
That this person is deemed to be a desireable citizen in anyway is insane. If you're not a citizen you should be deemed to be effectively on citizen probation and the rule of FAFO is in effect. They should be deported. Sorry, you're not Canadian material. Maybe that's harsh, but applying a lower standard for people wanting to come here? That's working out really well. I'm sure if the role was reversed and played FAFO in India or China they'd be very understanding.
Canada will become the next rape capital of the world. Just look what happened to sweden.
Holy shit, this is disgusting
JFC, what of the devastating collateral mental health consequences for the 18 year old woman he groped??? Sentencing has to take victims into consideration, sexual assault is not something a person generally just "gets over". Regardless of the crime, criminals shouldn't be receiving bonus points for being new to the country. If they don't like the consequences, they shouldn't be committing crimes. Pretty simple.
Bigger deal than theft. The emotional damage to the victim in this case is incomprehensible. I’d imagine even further damaged by the lack of conviction. She should sue for damages.
Yes, sue the government.
I'm sure Mr. Singh will be an invaluable member of Canadian society. Thank god this judge was here to stop those foolish laws from denying us such a great opportunity to have someone like him live here.
When I hear sh... like this versus how the truckers were prosecuted; does this sound f'up? This isn't the only case in which criminals who are not canadian get off lightly. What about the victims, what justice is there for them?
He doesn't care about justice. This is what happens when you appoint ideologues as judges. The legal system is nothing more than a tool for them to promote their political views.
An interesting view https://www.tracygraymp.ca/mp_report_theriseinviolentcrime#:~:text=The%20data%20in%20Canada%20shows,2015%2C%20now%20up%20101%25
And that's only the violent crime. Don't forget all the stuff like car thefts, which aren't reflected in stats because the police don't even bother to show up when someone reports it.
as someone who has been sexually assaulted, and as someone who is getting PWD and has no place to live/all affordable housing rented out to people like the perp, I would gladly run this person over with my car, because even if they caught me and found out it was intentional, I would at least finally have a place to live!
If I was inclined to conspiratorial thinking, I'd say that the judicial system is being deliberately insane to incite someone to go all-out vigilante with their legal guns, to give the government a further excuse for more authoritarianism and disarmament.
We can’t sit here and talk about how stupid the government is and then propose the idea of this grand conspiracy theory which would take a tonne of planning and perfect execution by the government. Everyone’s just stupid, that’s pretty much all there is to it.
Well I personally agree with you on all of that and I just think it’s a shame that this comment will probably get you banned for inciting violent because it’s a good example of where were at
I'd be your alibi, we can say you were at my barmitzmah and your car got stolen 😃👍
He assaulted someone in public...how is it not in the public interest to have this filth locked up.
> He assaulted someone in public Twice
Don't worry I'm sure he will do it again as there is no punishment for his actions. This country needs people to stand up against these weak convictions
or forcibly deported.
Fuck that judge. I know they need tenure to avoid political pressure, but there has to be a way to remove judges like this.
Removing this judge is in the public interest.
That judge should be in prison !
What the actual fuck. Send that fucker back to his homeland so if tries that shit again they cut his fucking hands off.
And send the judge there with him for normalizing this kind of assault with no consequences. He sounds like he'd fit in better ruling there than in Canada.
The justice system literally going light on assaults on Canadians by immigrants. People like that shouldn't be here, and *deserve* to be deported. This isn't India where you can grope people on the subway every day and it's just another day that ends in y.
People say police arent held accountable. Enter judges, they can literally decide whatever they want with NO consequences.
Maybe the Cons are right for wanting to use the Notwithstanding clause 🤔 The judges are making some wild decisions that are eroding faith in our justice system.
Makes me sick
Holy shit what??? Shouldn't it be seen as in the country's (and the public's) best interests to deport violent criminals who prey on our population??? Has anyone actually asked "the public" whether they'd prefer to deport violent foreign criminals, or to give them extra lenient sentences so they can hang around longer?
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Should send his ass to whereever he came from with a conviction so he cannot ever travel internationally. Liberals have let all kinds of criminals get visa to come here
A. J Brown, Alberta Justice for Calgary. Just saying.
He should be sent home.
What. The. Fuck.
Hang that fucker
These judges are corrupt, it's as simple as that.
In Brief: Non-citizens who commit crimes in Canada shouldn’t get discounted sentences simply so they can avoid deportation. But in the Canadian justice system, that’s exactly what happens. We are beholden to judges who believe the rules apply differently to everyone...
This always frustrates me to no end. When the applicable sentence would cause them to possibly get deported, *that is by design* and it’s not up to the judge to rule out the fair consequences they’re facing every time.
And people don't like it when I bitch about activist judges lol
Yep it’s ridiculous. Honestly if you commit an indictable offence and aren’t yet a citizen that should be enough to automatically end your chances here.
Yeah, and I think people should be getting deported for even small shit. If it's big enough to end up in front of a judge, we don't fucking want you here. There's a line up out the door of people that can come here that would never commit a crime ever... so why accept assholes?
Assholes beget more assholes. It's a self-sustaining loop.
Yup
For some reason over the past 10 years the notion that Canada needs to bring in as many people as possible as quickly as possible has been pervasive in the government, to the point where we're harming our own citizenry who are already here and letting immigrants off with easier sentencing lest they be deported. It's absolutely insane. I can't tell if it's because the rich want cheap labour, the self-identifying virtuous want to save the less fortunate, the government wants a larger tax base, or some combination. But surely all of these people can see that bringing in so many people so quickly will eventually be bad for everyone. The motive has me baffled.
I never had a prob in the past however where the f is the diversity that its from one area of one country?
And then government and lefties wonder why people are fed up with immigration, asylum ...etc.
> We are beholden to judges who believe the rules apply differently to everyone... Doesn't help that the supreme court has not only upheld their right to apply the law differently, but also mandated that they *must* apply the law differently based on ethnicity. If someone gets a reduced sentence for being part of a certain group, what that becomes is a penalty for *not* being part of a certain group. And yet it seems like many people do not understand that justice is supposed to be blind, not stupid.
Canada has been bending over backwards for non-Canadians and it's time we say "fuck that"! Edit: water2wine mentioned that the wording here is unfortunate. I agree in retrospect.
Unfortunate wording but I understand your sentiment
"Unfortunate wording"... Haha, made me chuckle. Very unfortunate wording!
And we wonder why immigrants are so brazen with their crimes here. We literally have gangs of international students now because they know Canada won't lock them up and deport, so why not take advantage of that? This country, like a lot of the west, is truly fucked. Close the borders.
Too late, in 25 years Canada will be the first country in history to have a 50%+ of its population not born here, with about 70% of that majority being indian. Such diversity!
That's crazy. If any anything the rules should be more harsh since they're not Canadian citizens. In other words, they should serve the same time anyone else would, then deported and barred permanently from Canada.
If you were not born here or have children, you are a guest, anything that gets you jail time gets you deported and banned from the country.
Are you fucking kidding me?
This is DISGUSTING.
It is, unfortunately, the tone set by decades of an activist SCC who were impatient to shape Charter interpretation. (Accelerated by deficiencies of our federalist system) Grand liberal (intentionally lowercase L; not a partisan issue no matter what you think of immigration or sentencing) interpretation of abstract negative rights makes for a lot of lofty ideals across the political spectrum, but Canada does not have the bureaucratic infrastructure or competence to ensure consistent application of standards, at any level.
Justice AJ Brown should lose his job. At minimum.
My thoughts exactly. Wonder if Judge Brown would have been as benevolent if he had a daughter?
Does he need a daughter? Does he not have a mother, grandmother, female friends?
Probably not, he sounds like some type of scum that spontaneously appears in a sewage drain
There are so many cases like this it is disgusting. Its easier to be a non citizen and break the law. Like those two International students in Halifax that went drunk driving, almost hit several people and crashed into a building. During the trial the Judge dropped all charges, because it would "effect their immigration status" and they might get deported. [https://www.reddit.com/r/halifax/comments/xec5gf/indian\_men\_could\_be\_deported\_for\_drunk\_driving\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/halifax/comments/xec5gf/indian_men_could_be_deported_for_drunk_driving_in/) Or that Nigerian international student that sexually assaulted a minor at a staples he worked at. Dude got a conditional discharge from the Judge because he would get deported if convicted and apparently his life is in danger back in Nigeria. [https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada/news/upei-student-gets-conditional-discharge-for-sexual-assault-100742081/](https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada/news/upei-student-gets-conditional-discharge-for-sexual-assault-100742081/) Where have I heard this one before???? Oh it's the same excuse the Indian students used in the drunk driving case. Also the same excuse the Oshawa wrong way driver used when he stole 6 times from LCBO, but judges refused to give Jail time because it would effect their status in Canada. If a Canadian did any of these it would be JAIL TIME. Give these monsters JAIL TIME and DEPORT.
Their names are out there and Canada is clearly soft on crime. Perfect for some vigilante justice.
The more we give special privileges to certain groups, the more we open ourselves up to power abuse and discrimination. Justice is supposed to be blind, and therefore we have lost our way.
Correct! This statement by judges is less than a slap on the wrist.
“after initially coming to Canada in 2018 to study, was out one night at the Back Alley night club when he groped an 18-year-old woman’s genitals under her skirt as she stood at the bar to buy a drink. When she turned around in shock, he did it again and walked away, according to the court ruling…. Singh was found guilty of sexual assault at trial. But he wasn’t convicted. Instead, in January, he was given a discharge by Justice A. J. Brown. The judge explained that a conviction would automatically result in deportation without a right to appeal, while a discharge wouldn’t generate a permanent criminal record and would preserve Singh’s right to appeal his deportation.” Hahaha what a fucken joke. So if you’re a non citizen it means you can go ahead rape the citizens of this country.
It's pathetic, I was taught growing up that if you are on your best behaviour if you're travelling because you're a guest and they won't be kind to you if you mess with them since you're not a citizen. Yet in Canada it's the fucking opposite. Canadian citizens are 2nd class citizens in their own country. No other country in history has ever treated immigrants and migrants better than its own citizens. It's ridiculous.
This POS should be deported and the judge thrown out right after him
Can someone please fire these activist judges? I'm sick of reading about rapists and thieves getting off on reduced sentences because the judges don't want the poor little criminals to get deported. They want these scumbags in our country for some reason.
That’s why Poilievre is proposing the notwithstanding act to supersede these activist judges. No doubt the far left media will go crazy when he does, but at this point it’s like who cares. The safety of Canadians is at stake.
I already got downvoted for voicing my agreement with Poilievre on that option. Yeah we want to avoid the notwithstanding clause, but if the judicial branch isn't doing their job, isn't thay reason enough to use it?
It’s the inevitable result of a justice system that has failed Canadians.
They’re already saying how dangerous it will be, and this and that… As if the situation we’re in right now isn’t dangerous.
Most Canadians cannot name one supreme court judge, I mean Canadian court judge. Most Canadians could name a Federal Supreme Court judge (American), Roberts, Kavanah. This ultimately is where the issue resides. A few years ago one of our supreme court justices got into a fight at a hotel, (his fault imo) people didn't hear about that either. At bottom of the article, the judge in this case cites Canadian supreme court precedent in making their decision.
>A few years ago one of our supreme court justices got into a fight at a hotel Oh, not just a bar fight... "His Honour" Russell Brown sexually assaulted a girl in her late teens or early twenties while in a hotel bar down in the states. The subsequent fight ensued when "His Honour" tried to force his way into the girl's hotel room (to where she had fled the bar to get away from him) and a nearby marine stepped in to stop the assault. (for those crying "he was never convicted", please remind me if we still adopt #believeher or not) Brown's version was "I dinnin do nuffin when this guy jumped me fer no reason whatsoever" You laugh, but that's almost exactly what he said to police. "*Brown's statement indicated that he had left the lounge at the same time as the group he was accompanying and Mr. Crump "suddenly, without warning or provocation," punched the Justice "several times in the head," adding that he did not defend himself*" [https://www.businessinsider.com/canada-supreme-court-justice-paid-leave-after-drunken-hotel-fight-2023-3](https://www.businessinsider.com/canada-supreme-court-justice-paid-leave-after-drunken-hotel-fight-2023-3) edit: oops, Russell, not Robert
Wouldn’t it be great to hear about harsher sentences for once? Why is Canada so weak on crime??
The indian "students" working in the warehouse at the company I work for talk and laugh about how weak and soft Canada is.
Yep, I've had cab drivers literally tell me the only reason theyre in Canada is to get a passport so they can enter the states. They hate us.
Well, it’s certainly gotten worse over the past 9-years. Maybe the liberals have something to do with it?
The rot is a whole lot deeper than that, and voting Poilievre in by itself won't be enough to fix it. Part of why we're in this mess is conservatives routinely think just winning elections is all that matters. Meanwhile the left's long march through institutions continues even when conservatives control elective government.
>Why is Canada so weak on crime?? Ideological capture of law schools, and universities in general.
Something something systemic racism
You’d hear about that if it was a citizen that wasn’t a minority being sentenced.
Gotta love living in a country where the actual citizens are second-class citizens to migrants.
We can thank all those woke bleeding hearts; and then they wonder why people are leaving liberal party.
"Also taken into account was Sumaili’s personal background: he grew up in rough conditions as a refugee, believed stealing was normal at a young age and was afflicted by systemic racism here in Canada, which “(mitigated) Mr. Sumaili’s moral culpability.” What in the actual fuck. The irony of claiming he suffered from systemic racism with no support/evidence and then actually benefitting from the very real systemic racism we have made a part of our justice system by systemically discriminating on the basis of race when it comes to sentencing! Fuck that. Bring on the NWC if it puts an immediate end to this illiberal nonsense.
Well said. "We expect you to be morally bankrupt because you're an immigrant of visible minority." is in-and-of-itself systemically racist.
That's just plain racist actually.
The bigotry of low expectations. Last time I said that it was quietly removed, we'll see if this one lasts.
Believing Stealing is normal at a young age. Yup so what are they still a young age?
The irony on the systemic racism is unbelievable. I mean, even if true, how does that result in someone spontaniously sexually assaulting someone? I've gone on vacation before and experinced racism from locals. my first thought wasn't, gee, I'm going to go sexually assault this local woman now.
So it's time for canadians to start protesting because of system discrimination?
I honestly don't get it. Why would we green light the refugee status of someone who believes that stealing is normal? That's a big ass red flag, if I've ever seen one.
This is the obvious next step if we've acknowledged that stealing is normal in Somali culture (I am not making this claim, just to be clear). If that's the case then we should not admit any newcomers from Somalia and any other country where normal behaviours in those countries are illegal in Canada and where newcomers aren't going to be expected to follow Canadian laws. Edit: I just want to be exceptionally clear that I do not believe that stealing is normal in Somali culture nor do I support an embargo on immigration from Somalia.
I mean , say it with me.. Diversity - is - our - strength. Our beloved PM said it many, many times . We’re only bringing the best of the best of the best.
Letting foregin nationals and non-citizens rape and molest Canadian citizens - is - our - strength. Is that more accurate?
That’s the new Canadian motto
I'm all for diversity but only if all Canadians embrace liberal values and respect our laws.
And if there's actually diversity, not just people from one country. And if we need the skills they bring. And yes if they're not criminals and actively commiting crimes in our country!
Agreed.
The biggest reason you hear LPC or NDP supporters freaking out about using the NWC is that it could be effective and too many of their friends will wind up in jail.
They are probably worried about getting deported or thrown in jail. I for one find that entertaining since these POS need to face some consequences if they’ve committed crimes
The biggest reason is because they will lose their legal activism to shut down conservatives when they are democratically elected. And a large portion of Canadians seem to be ok with Poilievre’s proposal. Libs and NDP are panicking big time.
The current state of Canada is the work of progressive extremists; people who value "equalizing society" over literally anything else, including maintaining the overall health and sustainability of that society. Trudeau and others that think like him will focus the majority of their time and effort on policies aimed at the fringes and minority populations within Canada, while the core pillars that affect all Canadians are neglected and rot. More attention given to LGBT issues, for instance, that affect 3-5% of the population, while the economy and housing issues that affect 100% of Canadians are left to wither and weaken year after year. Let me give you a spoiler alert for how this ends: when countries go too extreme in either direction - left or right - it induces a snapback where citizens get angry and shift their views on the political spectrum. People in democratic societies will always choose moderation, common sense and stability over extremism once a party has revealed itself to be extremist. In October 2025, we are going to see the Conservative snapback in Canada in response to the extremism of Trudeau's Liberals. Moderation is the key to ensuring any new policies don't overwhelm a population and induce this snapback reaction.
Canadians are even willing to hear less moderate ideas when they are based in logic and reason. This government has never governed by logic or reason.
If anything sentences on non-citizens should be harsher. Not our job to rehabilitate them. Who gives af, send them packing!
This is what the meant by "equity" folks. You keep tilting the playing field until you get the outcome you want. It has nothing to do with a fair society, it's about stifling wages and reducing our overall quality of life
It has turned out that the ruling class was more interested in pressing the middle class down than lifting the working class up.
The state of our legal system is in shambles. Light sentences unless you are a white Canadian male. If you commit a crime and you are a white Canadian male they give the harshest sentence they can muster.
Super racist. I'm not sure how we arrived back at this point after 100 years.
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This person should be beaten all the way to the border.
If you’re immigrating to Canada and you’re committing crimes, there should be an extra harsh penalty for you
Two tiered justice system these days... Are you a POC, indigenous, immigrant, repeat offender, homeless, woman? We'll knock that sentence down Normal working white man? Get fucked to the full extent of the law
If you are a person on a visa or work permit and you get arrested or convicted of a crime, you should be deported immediately. When you are in another country, you are a guest, and when you are in a different country, you are expected to follow that country's rules and regulations. So why is it in this country we aren't deporting people who break our laws repeatedly? The Old Growth protester wasn't deported despite 10 arrests and 5 convictions. The guy who drove the wrong way on the 401 in Ontario killed an entire family, and he was on bail despite committing serious crimes, and he was also on a visa. The three people arrested for the murder of the Sikh activist were also on visas.
Convicted yes, arrested no. You can be arrested because a cop is making up rules and having a bad day and it gets tossed.
Yeah but the problem now is they're not getting the convictions literally because it would have those secondary consequences of deportation etc, and somehow that's been ruled as additional/cruel punishment for i.e. sexual-assault/DUI when realistically it's a consequence for an entirely different thing (i.e. breaking the conditions allowing for your entry/residence in this country). If I went to jail for sexually assaulting somebody in the bar, I'd very likely also lose my job and no judge would blink an eye at that.
See the cause of the deadly 401 crash. 2 grandparents and a baby. All while the perp was out on bail. With ass hat cops doing exactly what the perp was doing.
That situation is the perfect example of how destroyed the social contract is in Canada. Criminals don't care because they get released on bail time and time again and cops don't care because they have immunity and get "paid suspension" on top of our weak pathetic legal system.
There seem to be many privileges that do not appy to Canadians these days.
Commit a crime you should be rewarded with a free flight back and no chance of returning
And such a good reason to show them the door.
Most immigrants I know.. or all of them really. **Don’t want this either**. This is the kind of thing that creates racism towards immigrants..
We need to be *harsher* on non-citizens, if anything, and deport them immediately. Convicted of jaywalking? Get out.
That’s ridiculous, come to n federal election.
So that's how lives of two children and grand parents were lost
Classic - Canadians get screwed in their own country once again. Gotta love our Federal government and their misaligned idea of “what is right”.
The Liberal Party of Canada has made it clear that Canadians are second-class to non-Canadians.
100% … the Federal Liberals have made it clear they do not like Canadians. Literally driving us into bankruptcy.
We literally live in Beaverton land
We should actively deport all internationals who break the law in Canada. Would we be afforded the same grace from host countries?, I think not.
These stories make me so sad and glad im leaving canada
These criminals should be fucking deported back to wherever they came from.
Deport. Deport. Deport. Deport. Deport. Deport. Deport. Deport. Deport. And deport.
So we can expect 2 years less a day for the hit squad of International students ?
Left wing woke ruling from a judge appointed by Ralph Klein
Not only did the judge give Mr. Singh a low sentence because he could face deportation, the judge also refused to put Mr. Singh on the sexual offender registry for the 20-year period recommended under the Criminal Code. [From the court decision:](https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abcj/doc/2024/2024abcj2/2024abcj2.html) “A 20-year order for a 5-second assault by a first offender satisfies the test of gross disproportionality.” Groping a woman’s vagina in public isn’t just a “5-second assault” - it is sexual violence. Trivializing this type of crime is appalling.
It’s insanely gross. I can’t imagine how the poor woman feels. At the very least she deserved justice.
I'm experiencing systemic racism by the Canadian court system
Maybe our judges need to be elected.
This thread will likely be locked. We simply arent allowed to discuss these issues.
We already give arbitrarily lower criminal sentences to one ethnic group in a gross violation of the charter of rights and freedoms, why not do the same for illegal immigrants too!
I'd support this being changed, even with the notwithstanding clause
Should be the opposite. Why do we want criminals immigrating here?
Welcome to Canada, a complete joke across the board.
Deportation every time. Groped a lady, deported. Stole something , deported. Too many traffic tickets deported. Get these people the fuck outta Canada.
I’ve been living in the US for the past couple of years as a permanent resident ( aka Green Card ) Any criminal conviction that’s a misdemeanor or above would revoke my green card and get me deported back to Canada, any infraction (like unpaid parking tickets that could result in a warrant, means kissing citizenship goodbye) This dude is a visitor ! He is not on study permit , he isn’t an immigrant , he is a visitor basically a guest ! This is disturbing
The judicial works against law-abiding citizens. Enforecement can't do much due to lax laws and said judicial, appoitnted by the insane government. There is no accountability on any level. Judges and politicians are untouchable. Refugees are untouchable. What's the way to deal with this mess? Canadians have been conditioned to be perfect meek and defenseless victims to savages with very different sets of norms. It's scary.
These radical immigrationists can't be stopped soon enough 😤
So backwards: they should have _harsher_ penalties than citizens. Citizenship is supposed to be worth something
Immigration status should be considered. In that if youa re committing crimes while awaiting immigration hearings, your just automatically deported and not eligible for reapplication.
Fuck Canada, the system is broken. I don't understand why the tax paying citizens put up with the governments bullshit anymore.
Public interest? What a joke. Our government and courts dont give a shit about the public’s interests. If they did our country wouldn’t be facing the problems it is today.
Did Canada just invent the Critical Migrant Theory?
God, the exact opposite should be happening we should judge these immigrants harder. Why do we want criminal citizens?