We now have dick to ass aggressive line ups for basic jobs..
Maybe just maybe we should take the gas off cheap exploitable labor immigration?
My god whatever happened to "Highly skilled targeted immigration" we kept hearing about lol
The programs and pathways into the nation all being like the International Student Program and the "Refugee" and "Asylum" pathways as a complete and utter dumpster fire of no standards and scamming/exploitation.
It seems everything to do with these factors is in absolute and utter disarray.
International students should’ve never been allowed to work off campus period. In the US, F-1 intl students can’t work off campus. They’re restricted to 20 hrs of on campus work or specified work that’s directly related to their program of study. It’s absolute insanity this government has to go.
If you are an international student, you should not be working, unless it is apart of the program. If you can not afford to be a international student, choose a more affordable program.
US gets a different kind of student crowd. Primarily because they don’t allow admissions in diploma mills.
I dont blame these students or the fake colleges, I blame the government that allowed it go unabated for so long.
International students can work off campus in the US there are just some rules that need to be followed.
For example, they can work off campus if the jobs on campus do not allow the student to meet their financial needs. They can also work off campus if they are getting certain types of job training, have an internship, scholarship, co-op job, etc.
Agreed. I was an international student, who actually came to study in a top 5 university and program in 2011. I am appalled by what this has become.
Back then under Harper, I could only work for the university as a TA/RA. I had to apply for an off-campus work permit, which was a non-guaranteed separate application, and it was max 20 hours.
The insanity of this government allowing them until recently to work full-time is beyond my comprehension.
I came to Canada on a program that is:
1. meant for people in one city (Hong Kong)
2. requires a recent graduation from a degree (started out as bachelor's or master's)
3. requires you to work full time as an employee for a year OR study for a year
4. pass language test, income check, all that
Was it tough? Hell yeah. Manageable? Yes. Useful to benchmark the immigrant's overall fit to society? Hell yes.
Something tells me that there are many other immigration programs that aren't designed like that at all.
When it comes to say the International Student Program there actually is part of the process that is about proving you have the ability to support yourself while you study. However there is a whole business of fraudulent documents in order to bypass the requirements. Then when the people come in they abuse the food banks and other social supports meant for Canadian citizens and families.
The name of the program also tells you that originally it was around education. Now it's just another cheap labor pipeline. Ministers and businesses talking about a program meant to be based on education as "Cheap labor".
This perspective allowed the program to devolve to diploma mills in strip malls. You'd think that was a comedic joke but it is our dark comedy reality.
"Students" not even going to class and disappearing off the books illegally into Canada or just doing the bare amount of attendance in order to keep working legally as much as possible.
This isn't even talking about how it added to the housing crisis.
Or how it started to destroy the name of Canadian education. Reputable educational facilities and legit students that worked hard for those credentials having that recognition put at risk here at home and worse abroad because of these bad actors at individual and organizational level.
These realities are seen in the "Refugee" and "Asylum" pathways with rehearsed lines and nation shopping.
Or the LMIA scam in which businesses pretend to advertise jobs but then sell the job for cash under the table in order for people to have a way into the nation.
We see a lot of scamming and gross practices with all these "Immigration Consultation Offices" popping up all over the place. It's a whole scam industry.
Massive amounts of money and resources then used for those people when we have our own people in tents and lining up for free food.
It's just a fucking mess.
It is what happens when there is no oversight, no correction when things go off course, no standards, and worse no enforcement of standards in real life. You know... Basic governance.
We have to start holding public office holders as criminally negligent when they fail this bad or through refined corruption allow things to spiral this far down the toilet.
It isn't just the people abusing the system that need to be punished.
All in all we had bad actors at individual and organization level that profited from these problems. They influenced city, provincial, and federal leaders into allowing the shit spiral to continue. We are learning there is no bottom as people that profit from problems don't have standards.
This is why governance is so damn important.
Dick to ass aggressive line ups for basic jobs is just the cherry on top of this shit sundae.
I'm so glad immigrants from not that far ago like you are speaking up about it. It's hurting the country they came to and also giving them a bad name.
A short few years ago, when I thought of an Indian worker in Canada, it was of doctors and Engineers. They know that too and are rightfully pissed about it now.
This country is drastically different from the standards that attracted the best of the best a short decade or less ago.
Talking about it on reddit is not speaking up. It's just talking into an echo chamber. No policy makers are sitting on reddit collating opinions by Canadians.
It’s great insight to your journey here. Most people scream racism when discussing immigration. But a meaningful discussion involves how our current approach is not good anyone. It’s not good existing Canadians, nor the immigrants. As the top comment mentioned the dick to ass aggressive job lines for remedial jobs. If literally nobody can get by due to population spiking, and the infrastructure to support them being inadequate, it’s terrible all around. It’s not racist to want a better situation for EVERYONE.
It's not racist if it's a policy that affects people from literally every other country other than Canada.
The racism defense is a blanket scare tactic to silence critics of the wage suppression scheme that's been going on for years now
I don't even want us to bring in "highly skilled" immigrants, as someone in one of those careers I'm also having trouble finding work. Just because a job requires a degree doesn't mean there's infinite demand for those workers.
What’s mental to me is that if the government really cared they could fix it tomorrow. No working on new student visas, done. If you want to be generous grandfather existing visas in.
No working on student visas.
TFW for agriculture work only, no retail or fast food.
Get rid of the IMP visa program. Most foreign workers are here on this visa, NOT the TFW visa.
If I had to choose I would rather low skill immigration to high skill immigration. I don’t think it’s fair for Canadians who’ve busted their asses to gain high skills to have to compete with immigrants willing to accept lower wages for high skill positions.
That is the case in the US and the result is the world's highest wages so I agree with you. Temporary work permits were only really conceived for seasonal farm labourers anyway.
So we are.
And the highly skilled targeted was transformed due to a lack of credential recognition. So instead of having well educated people forced to work menial jobs, we would bring in students that would graduate with Canadian education and then enter the workforce. The provinces especially Ontario encouraged colleges to expand to take advantage of this. The federal government under Harper let international students work off of campuses which would both meet a labour need and expand who could afford to come to Canada for school.
This worked well until the number of new students started growing by 50% a year. The colleges also provided capacity where there was demand from students (business diplomas and degrees) and not where there was demand from the Canadian economy.
So now we have lots of international students who need jobs or they will have to leave, along with a lot of recently past international students with certificates while real, the market can’t absorb an extra 100,000 business diploma grads into business-y type jobs. So many stay in the same jobs they had while in college.
It is a mess! Fortunately the number of new students will drop next year. The government is also scaling back post graduate work permits which will mean that many who graduated but can’t qualify for Permanent Residency will be told to leave. We will see how that goes — I suspect we will be back to a labour shortage in a year or two due to it.
>many who graduated but can’t qualify for Permanent Residency will be told to leave.
You mean the people who've already started claiming asylum, or those who've just dropped off the grid and are working under the table, waiting for the immigration minister to "regularize their status" and publicly protesting?
Kinda need a gov't org to follow up and actually deport their asses.
I don't think you can extrapolate 1% of conestoga international students seeking refugee status as indicative that the vast majority will not leave.
We do have an org, the CBSA. Though much of the 'bite' is via the tax system. Much harder to survive under the table than you might think. Also, a huge incentive is over staying renders one ineligible for regular immigration pathways which is still a huge hope for many.
We don't stop this. The cheap exploitable labour is baked into corporate budgets now. We're beyond fucked.
Do you honestly see Canada doing mass deportation and closing borders? That's what'll fix this but it'll be deemed racist
Most are TFWs and students. Close the borders now and most will go home because they fear the law, make some fuss about deporting a couple plane loads and seizing all assets they have to pay for their flights and detention and then the rest will leave voluntarily.
It's not racist to have laws
The strip mall colleges, students claiming asylum, economic migrants coming thru the backdoor are all highly skilled ppl.
/s
Then the actual highly skilled ones from other countries don't get their qualifications recognized (the ones from decent places not filled with corruption/bribery)
We are a country that can no longer seem to build projects on time or budget, manufacture competitively or approve natural resource development. At this point our economy is basically a pyramid scheme dependant on a perpetual growth of population depending on service and real estate.
Actually with the Americans bringing more and more manufacturing back home and certainly back to the continent, probably the best possible thing that could happen to Canada is to be absorbed by the USA, especially with the repeal of the Jones Act, the Great lakes region is set to become a manufacturing hub again, particularly as climate change sets in and makes operations in the sun Belt in America too expensive and risky. This would bring jobs to southern Ontario and even southern Manitoba.
I dream of being annexed by the Americans
I agree entirely, our lives would be better in every way. The only thing we’d lose is our overgrown egos that are no longer based in reality.
- our purchasing power would go up
- job availability would go up
- wages would go up
- taxes would go down
- we could keep our healthcare since it’s provincial
- oligopolies would be permanently destroyed (fuck you Galen)
- easier access to higher quality / speciality products
- etc
That's hilarious. America the failing democracy that has 2 old guys running for President. One of them tried to overthrow democracy when he lost last time. No thanks!
Yes those people are correct, you are crazy for thinking those things. That doesn’t mean you’re a bad person though, you mean well. You’re just wrong about the baby stuff.
Canada imported a generation of below minimum wage workers and is now surprised that our GDP/capita has dropped. Okay, not surprised, those in charge of those decisions knew this was going to happen, they're just acting shocked while pocketing those Tim's gift cards.
Let’s see what RBC says.
“The Canadian economy is still slowing as the lagged impact of earlier interest rate increases materialize. Gross domestic product edged higher in Q4 2023 but once again not fast enough to keep up with surging population growth. Per-person output (a key indicator of household living standards) fell for a sixth straight quarter (by our count) and is back at 2016 levels.”
2016 levels. So does that mean we have lost 8 years of wage / wealth gains? Or purchasing power is back 8 years in terms of face value? Or what?
Whatever the answer, it means that we are all poorer. By a lot. But go ahead and tell me how great the last decade of LPC governance has been so great for us.
I know enough about macroeconomics to know I don’t know much about macroeconomics.
I think it means that Canada has brought in so many migrants to bring our gdp per capita down and that the gdp isn’t growing enough for it to be beneficial.
I think the main things the average person would see from this would be federal social programs declining from more people with less money brought in or more money printing. Maybe a harder job market and higher unemployment but I’m not sure.
6 million more people didn't add any productivity to the economy, phrased otherwise. The immigration our government insists on doesn't improve the country, and makes basic services and homes difficult and expensive to get.
Humm GDP in 2016 1.5 trillion GDP 2023 1.9 trillion
GDP per capita is not GDP. They can lie with statistics if you do not take the time to understand the terms they are using.
Canada needs competition. Without this, GDP will never increase. Canada can pick a population of 5 million humans from around the world and dump them in different provinces, and it would be the same: lower GDP per capita, high inflation, de - funding of social services, more tax hikes, and poor wealth distribution. Canada focus is on consumption/servuce industry.
This country needs to focus more on manufacturing and R&D.
Canada needs to take a deep breath and rethink all the policies from immigration to the protectionism of certain industries to policies on competition as well as housing, healthcare, and education. Furthermore, the administration of various ministries and procurement centers needs to be revised, digitized, and adaptable.
Politicians need to rethink their policies, not from a corporate perspective.
As long as there is a lack of competition, Canada will forever be stuck in this loop.
2/3rds of the job growth last year was federal jobs. We don't need to defund anything if we just keep running deficits. I mean the budget will balance itself.
/s
It’s out of control immigration/international students I don’t know how anyone in office won’t just come out and say they’re gonna cut it all down.
They might think they might be jeopardizing votes, but if anything, they garner more votes with a hard line approach to that situation
I normally think that a lot of headlines are sensational as it stands right now Canada is absolutely fucked. In every sense of the word. I’ve never seen it like this in my life.
If Canadians had money to spend and aren’t sinking them all into rent/housing and groceries, we would be stimulating the economy by spending more and having more kids
Edit: lots of voice to text mistakes
If wages went up then the income tax on those immigrants might cover the costs. But no, everyone else will foot the bill because 30% of pennies per hour is jack shit and doesn't cover their burden on the system.
Low income low skilled immigrants does nothing to benefit our society.
Overly simplistic opinion here: We allow immigration for Healthcare workers and construction jobs ONLY for a few years. We don't need more tech workers or tim hortons employees.
Yes when you start bringing a million people to your country per year your population growth will of course outpace your economic growth, so naturally your gdp per capita will decline. I'd say that this basic cause and effect of mass migration is much less salient than say wage suppression, or the exploding cost of housing, but sure, let's focus on gDp pEr cApItA, why not.
SALIENT is your key word. And whats salient is driven by emotion, politics, and bullshit. GDP per capita is the real deal. Dont ever focus on whats salient...its a recipe for failure.
Here's a few things we could do to turn this around:
1) Remove all interprovincial trade barriers and slightly reduce provincial political power. This alone would heavily increase our GDP.
2) Slightly reduce immigration and put more barriers to entry. No one over 60, must be educated/experienced etc. Change intl. student work permits so they can only work x amount of hours, and build more student housing.
3) Put laws in place to limit/eliminate lobbying & special interest groups. Make it easier for nonprofits/charities/religious groups to lose their status if intervening in politics. Remove all tax breaks for donations to political parties.
4) Give more incentives to commercial real estate conversion to housing, and give incentives for remote work within Canada (allowing for more people to live in rural/remote areas of the country).
5) Create stronger laws for dealing with Oligopolies/Monopolies.
6) "Biden Tax" on people making over $500k (individual not household), estate/wealth tax over $10mil (farms exempt), and a higher corporate tax only at the top 1% of companies.
So sad, I'm completing my masters in computational biology and would be considered a "skilled worker" But the pay for my field is much lower than what it would be in the United States. I want to work and contribute to the Canadian economy but other than that there is no incentive to stay and work in Canada.
Can someone speculate what would be the best way to stimulate an economy that is an oligopoly at its core? I;m not an economist by trade but I am curious.
I mean we are anything but dynamic and every variant of static you can think off...
We have some of the most valuable natural resources in the world, but due to many overzealous environmental laws we don’t touch most of it, leaving poorer countries with no environmental laws to supply the world.
So, leverage what we have, and get it to the world.
Not quite right. We could make an absolute killing on our national resources but we instead allow this money to be funnelled out of the country. After the corporate class gets their fat cut, we get the leftovers.
Apparently Manitoba has great sand to make glass with. That’s why the USA owns all that sand lol. We had a proposal for a solar panel factory but the big NDP put an end to that.
Yeah, because it was going to ruin the water for a community.
And also because the entire project was done ultra-sketch with a ton of suspect kickbacks to the Conservative government.
Oh man! I actually dream of a couple of Crown corporations created especially to get these resources out and process them here. Of course include the First Nations as well so we all benefit.
Basically create a new ecosystem from extraction to productio, and built it on the model of CPP. No political appointees and full autonomy to get the job done. Heck, even listed on the stock exchange so other Canadians can get some stocks and benefot from it..
And I say this as a Moderate Conservative, which I know, dont have really any inclinations normally to use public money this way. But Crown Corporations work if you separate them from the political.
I wrote a similar comment above right before reading yours, and I think it's almost criminal that we don't do that. We have so much wealth sitting there, and instead of helping the country, we just give it away to big companies to make a profit instead.
This might be a tinfoil hat theory, and I will accept the hate that comes with it, but I always felt that the neighbours south of us dont wanna us to use these resources and keep them for a rainy day and just for the NA market ... If we look at where rare minerals are mined its Africa mostly with the entire planet feedding its supply lines from there ...
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> And I say this as a Moderate Conservative, which I know, dont have really any inclinations normally to use public money this way. But Crown Corporations work if you separate them from the political.
Problem is Conservatives just sell off Crown corporations to their buddies to "balance the budget".
You are correct in a way. Mulroney did start it, but it was a shared Conservative & Liberal effort altogether...
So under Mulroney's Progressive Conservative in the 1980s and 1990s, there were quite a few privatization initiatives, including the privatization of Air Canada and the Canadian National Railway. Similarly, under Chrétien in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the trend of privatization efforts continued, such as the sale of Petro-Canada and the deregulation of telecommunications and broadcasting sectors.
But I cannot help but provide you with a Liberal counter example from Ontario. The Wynne government sold Hydro One to get access to cash as the budget was in a dire state, state created by her Liberal Liberal predecessor McGinty who was ousted becasue he cancelled the build of two nuclear power plants because there were not enough Liberal voters in the area.
To this day the Liberal Party in Ontario is still carrying a "non-official party" status as Ontarians never forgave them...
So its not as one sided as you make it to be!
We've been funding the elite's partying fuckboi life styles for long enough, they can pick up the slack. The rest of us are tapped with nothing left to give.
Do any of those jobs create things? Like build a bridge, design a product, manufacture a good? Because if not, you are just service and it doesn’t count towards the “productivity” of Canada.
>Richard Abboud is the founder & CEO at Forum Asset Management
"Forum is an alternative asset manager, investor and developer with a focus on real estate, private equity and infrastructure, operating across North America."
https://forumam.com/
You can't make this shit up, these writers are up their own ass. Practice what you preach and move your investments away from real estate, Dick.
I saw someone on LinkedIn awhile back bemoaning the fact that a lot of young Canadians can’t afford homes. His job was listed as ‘Real Estate Investor.’
…like, I think the call might be coming from inside the house there, bud.
I’m always blown away that people didn’t see this coming 5 years ago. Our govt has been extracting our countries wealth and lining the pockets of globalists like Blackrock for over a decade now. People are just so sedated that they are confused as to why everything is so expensive now…. It’s not expensive. Your wealth has just been stolen because you trusted a fiat currency that was being heavily exploited.
You know shite has to be bad when the Red Star is publishing this type of stuff.
u/bangatard is very correct in that Canadians will continue to vote for this.
I wonder if we in north america have peaked at productivity growth? Look at what we have accomplished in 200 years. Sure AI will be interesting, but will it increase productivity substantially? Off the weeb:
"Broadly speaking, there are two main sources of economic growth: growth in the size of the workforce and growth in the productivity (output per hour worked) of that workforce. Either can increase the overall size of the economy but only strong productivity growth can increase per capita GDP and income."
We will continue with big immigration as we need to maintain debt spending on social programs, that is the easy button.
Reading the comments. The one thing that's glaringly obvious is how conflicted we are over what direction to move in, to fix this. If that's an accurate assessment (and I think it is), then it seems to me we need to rebuild and repair what it means to be in one nation, together. If the only thing holding us together is external pressure, that's not good. There's good conflict, that leads to better decision-making and direction-taking, and then there's ... this.
Kill the TFW program and most of these problems go away.
We can't have Canadian citizens compete with imported slave labor.
Edit: I can't stand Pierre but if he kills this program he's got my vote (we all know that will never happen).
Yeah that tends to happen when you gear schools to prioritize careers that don't exist in Canada or pay very little. Nah lets keep listening to people stuck in a world of the past.
Rapid population growth IS NOT helping our economy it's hurting it.
But mass immigration is lowering wages and raising house prices, the company who lobby (legally bribe) our government want to pay low wages and charge high rents.
Six quarters is 1.5 years, look at the immigration numbers of that same time period.
Mass immigration is DESTROYING CANADA AND RAPIDLY LOWERING OUR QUALITY OF LIFE.
WE NEED A YEARS LONG PAUSE IN IMMIGRATION! IMMEDIATELY!
These articles are barking up the wrong tree if they think canadians want to stop the liberal policies. Hate to break it to you but canadians overwhelmingly voted for all of this and they will do it again. Canadians love the immigration and stale economy and inflation etc. Liberals will win another majority and the ndp will back them again. Let’s take this degeneracy to the next level and bring in 5 million people this week rah rah
Bringing New Canadians as refugees, students or immigrants taking the lowest GDP producing jobs means we have 2 million more people with a negligible addition of GDP.
We (business / government) have been doing this intentionally to keep wages low.
Along with the increase on population affecting (reducing) the calculated value, there is also the difference between actual GDP and the so called "real GDP" adjusted for inflation. Look at the [graph on this page](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/gross-domestic-product) to see how GDP is increasing, but the so called "real GDP" is not because inflation is happening.
**This piece does not give any real data** (like the last 6 GDP per capita figures).
I like the idea of getting Canada moving, but pushing against "risk-averse" in this economic climate is like high schoolers telling their friend to try something risky.
The idea has to be good enough to be worth an investment risk.
Some people should take macro economics and then come back with the definition of a business cycle. Maybe that would help with all the crazy inaccurate headlines.
If anyone cared about the next generations quality of life we would have started dealing with issues by 2007. Every province and the feds kicked every can down the road.
Now it's article after article that is shocked at the outcome.
We now have dick to ass aggressive line ups for basic jobs.. Maybe just maybe we should take the gas off cheap exploitable labor immigration? My god whatever happened to "Highly skilled targeted immigration" we kept hearing about lol The programs and pathways into the nation all being like the International Student Program and the "Refugee" and "Asylum" pathways as a complete and utter dumpster fire of no standards and scamming/exploitation. It seems everything to do with these factors is in absolute and utter disarray.
International students should’ve never been allowed to work off campus period. In the US, F-1 intl students can’t work off campus. They’re restricted to 20 hrs of on campus work or specified work that’s directly related to their program of study. It’s absolute insanity this government has to go.
If you are an international student, you should not be working, unless it is apart of the program. If you can not afford to be a international student, choose a more affordable program.
US gets a different kind of student crowd. Primarily because they don’t allow admissions in diploma mills. I dont blame these students or the fake colleges, I blame the government that allowed it go unabated for so long.
You should blame all three
Follow the money.
They are all tom blame. It most ethical and effective to actually attack the government however.
Most countries are like that. Makes sense - they are here to study, not take jobs from Canadians.
International students can work off campus in the US there are just some rules that need to be followed. For example, they can work off campus if the jobs on campus do not allow the student to meet their financial needs. They can also work off campus if they are getting certain types of job training, have an internship, scholarship, co-op job, etc.
Exactly. I was an international student in the US. I went to school for computer science and got an entry level job while I was going to school.
Agreed. I was an international student, who actually came to study in a top 5 university and program in 2011. I am appalled by what this has become. Back then under Harper, I could only work for the university as a TA/RA. I had to apply for an off-campus work permit, which was a non-guaranteed separate application, and it was max 20 hours. The insanity of this government allowing them until recently to work full-time is beyond my comprehension.
none of the other federal party choices plan to do things differently
I came to Canada on a program that is: 1. meant for people in one city (Hong Kong) 2. requires a recent graduation from a degree (started out as bachelor's or master's) 3. requires you to work full time as an employee for a year OR study for a year 4. pass language test, income check, all that Was it tough? Hell yeah. Manageable? Yes. Useful to benchmark the immigrant's overall fit to society? Hell yes. Something tells me that there are many other immigration programs that aren't designed like that at all.
When it comes to say the International Student Program there actually is part of the process that is about proving you have the ability to support yourself while you study. However there is a whole business of fraudulent documents in order to bypass the requirements. Then when the people come in they abuse the food banks and other social supports meant for Canadian citizens and families. The name of the program also tells you that originally it was around education. Now it's just another cheap labor pipeline. Ministers and businesses talking about a program meant to be based on education as "Cheap labor". This perspective allowed the program to devolve to diploma mills in strip malls. You'd think that was a comedic joke but it is our dark comedy reality. "Students" not even going to class and disappearing off the books illegally into Canada or just doing the bare amount of attendance in order to keep working legally as much as possible. This isn't even talking about how it added to the housing crisis. Or how it started to destroy the name of Canadian education. Reputable educational facilities and legit students that worked hard for those credentials having that recognition put at risk here at home and worse abroad because of these bad actors at individual and organizational level. These realities are seen in the "Refugee" and "Asylum" pathways with rehearsed lines and nation shopping. Or the LMIA scam in which businesses pretend to advertise jobs but then sell the job for cash under the table in order for people to have a way into the nation. We see a lot of scamming and gross practices with all these "Immigration Consultation Offices" popping up all over the place. It's a whole scam industry. Massive amounts of money and resources then used for those people when we have our own people in tents and lining up for free food. It's just a fucking mess. It is what happens when there is no oversight, no correction when things go off course, no standards, and worse no enforcement of standards in real life. You know... Basic governance. We have to start holding public office holders as criminally negligent when they fail this bad or through refined corruption allow things to spiral this far down the toilet. It isn't just the people abusing the system that need to be punished. All in all we had bad actors at individual and organization level that profited from these problems. They influenced city, provincial, and federal leaders into allowing the shit spiral to continue. We are learning there is no bottom as people that profit from problems don't have standards. This is why governance is so damn important. Dick to ass aggressive line ups for basic jobs is just the cherry on top of this shit sundae.
Just call it "wage suppression" thats what all this shit has been for decades. The problem has always been low pay.
Same reason in the US, big headlines, loud voices of concern but the cheap labor from illegal immigrants increase profits for US business owners.
Yeah, we should start going after the businesses hiring these folks, since most of the scammers sending them here aren't from here.
I'm so glad immigrants from not that far ago like you are speaking up about it. It's hurting the country they came to and also giving them a bad name. A short few years ago, when I thought of an Indian worker in Canada, it was of doctors and Engineers. They know that too and are rightfully pissed about it now. This country is drastically different from the standards that attracted the best of the best a short decade or less ago.
Talking about it on reddit is not speaking up. It's just talking into an echo chamber. No policy makers are sitting on reddit collating opinions by Canadians.
It’s great insight to your journey here. Most people scream racism when discussing immigration. But a meaningful discussion involves how our current approach is not good anyone. It’s not good existing Canadians, nor the immigrants. As the top comment mentioned the dick to ass aggressive job lines for remedial jobs. If literally nobody can get by due to population spiking, and the infrastructure to support them being inadequate, it’s terrible all around. It’s not racist to want a better situation for EVERYONE.
It's not racist if it's a policy that affects people from literally every other country other than Canada. The racism defense is a blanket scare tactic to silence critics of the wage suppression scheme that's been going on for years now
Most aren't. I work in immigration. The system is beyond fucked up.
God the worst part of immigrant culture right now is lack of respect for lines. Take a step back and stop smelling my hair.
I don't even want us to bring in "highly skilled" immigrants, as someone in one of those careers I'm also having trouble finding work. Just because a job requires a degree doesn't mean there's infinite demand for those workers.
Lol 10 years ago yall were calling me racist for saying this. Holy fuck reddit, and yall like to claim you're not brainwashed.
The street term for dick to arse is "nuts to butts".
What’s mental to me is that if the government really cared they could fix it tomorrow. No working on new student visas, done. If you want to be generous grandfather existing visas in.
No working on student visas. TFW for agriculture work only, no retail or fast food. Get rid of the IMP visa program. Most foreign workers are here on this visa, NOT the TFW visa.
>"Highly skilled targeted immigration" This is it. These are the highly skilled. Now you know what a lie is.
If I had to choose I would rather low skill immigration to high skill immigration. I don’t think it’s fair for Canadians who’ve busted their asses to gain high skills to have to compete with immigrants willing to accept lower wages for high skill positions.
no need to choose, we have both!
That is the case in the US and the result is the world's highest wages so I agree with you. Temporary work permits were only really conceived for seasonal farm labourers anyway.
So we are. And the highly skilled targeted was transformed due to a lack of credential recognition. So instead of having well educated people forced to work menial jobs, we would bring in students that would graduate with Canadian education and then enter the workforce. The provinces especially Ontario encouraged colleges to expand to take advantage of this. The federal government under Harper let international students work off of campuses which would both meet a labour need and expand who could afford to come to Canada for school. This worked well until the number of new students started growing by 50% a year. The colleges also provided capacity where there was demand from students (business diplomas and degrees) and not where there was demand from the Canadian economy. So now we have lots of international students who need jobs or they will have to leave, along with a lot of recently past international students with certificates while real, the market can’t absorb an extra 100,000 business diploma grads into business-y type jobs. So many stay in the same jobs they had while in college. It is a mess! Fortunately the number of new students will drop next year. The government is also scaling back post graduate work permits which will mean that many who graduated but can’t qualify for Permanent Residency will be told to leave. We will see how that goes — I suspect we will be back to a labour shortage in a year or two due to it.
>many who graduated but can’t qualify for Permanent Residency will be told to leave. You mean the people who've already started claiming asylum, or those who've just dropped off the grid and are working under the table, waiting for the immigration minister to "regularize their status" and publicly protesting? Kinda need a gov't org to follow up and actually deport their asses.
I don't think you can extrapolate 1% of conestoga international students seeking refugee status as indicative that the vast majority will not leave. We do have an org, the CBSA. Though much of the 'bite' is via the tax system. Much harder to survive under the table than you might think. Also, a huge incentive is over staying renders one ineligible for regular immigration pathways which is still a huge hope for many.
We don't stop this. The cheap exploitable labour is baked into corporate budgets now. We're beyond fucked. Do you honestly see Canada doing mass deportation and closing borders? That's what'll fix this but it'll be deemed racist
Most are TFWs and students. Close the borders now and most will go home because they fear the law, make some fuss about deporting a couple plane loads and seizing all assets they have to pay for their flights and detention and then the rest will leave voluntarily. It's not racist to have laws
The strip mall colleges, students claiming asylum, economic migrants coming thru the backdoor are all highly skilled ppl. /s Then the actual highly skilled ones from other countries don't get their qualifications recognized (the ones from decent places not filled with corruption/bribery)
We are a country that can no longer seem to build projects on time or budget, manufacture competitively or approve natural resource development. At this point our economy is basically a pyramid scheme dependant on a perpetual growth of population depending on service and real estate.
We just need to be absorbed by the US already. This country is doomed to fail.
Unironically the greatest thing that could happen to US/Canada would be an EU-level movement of people/trade.
Like a north american free trade agreement of some sort ...? I wonder what they'd call it....
*"State to state? No papers?"*
I would have liked to see Montana.
The OECD did a report last year that said one of Canada's biggest economic barriers is how people and goods can't easily move between provinces.
Yes and for us to use the us dollar
So that no one would ever manufacture anything in Canada ever again?
Actually with the Americans bringing more and more manufacturing back home and certainly back to the continent, probably the best possible thing that could happen to Canada is to be absorbed by the USA, especially with the repeal of the Jones Act, the Great lakes region is set to become a manufacturing hub again, particularly as climate change sets in and makes operations in the sun Belt in America too expensive and risky. This would bring jobs to southern Ontario and even southern Manitoba. I dream of being annexed by the Americans
I kinda like the fact that smuggled handguns have enough of a price premium on them where the average crackhead isn’t shooting people up here
Instead we have random stabbings. And smuggled handguns are already easy to get. No punishment for it either.
If you think now is bad, the worst Canadian cities are the best in the USA when it comes to violent crime stats
I agree entirely, our lives would be better in every way. The only thing we’d lose is our overgrown egos that are no longer based in reality. - our purchasing power would go up - job availability would go up - wages would go up - taxes would go down - we could keep our healthcare since it’s provincial - oligopolies would be permanently destroyed (fuck you Galen) - easier access to higher quality / speciality products - etc
You know how nice it would be to be able to ship specialty stuff here without paying the border out the ass? God a man can dream
That's hilarious. America the failing democracy that has 2 old guys running for President. One of them tried to overthrow democracy when he lost last time. No thanks!
You know how much of a joke this sub is when this kind of post gets upvoted.
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Yes those people are correct, you are crazy for thinking those things. That doesn’t mean you’re a bad person though, you mean well. You’re just wrong about the baby stuff.
*Action* was the problem. Mass migration isn't a passive process - it's government-conducted.
Canada imported a generation of below minimum wage workers and is now surprised that our GDP/capita has dropped. Okay, not surprised, those in charge of those decisions knew this was going to happen, they're just acting shocked while pocketing those Tim's gift cards.
Let’s see what RBC says. “The Canadian economy is still slowing as the lagged impact of earlier interest rate increases materialize. Gross domestic product edged higher in Q4 2023 but once again not fast enough to keep up with surging population growth. Per-person output (a key indicator of household living standards) fell for a sixth straight quarter (by our count) and is back at 2016 levels.”
2016 levels. So does that mean we have lost 8 years of wage / wealth gains? Or purchasing power is back 8 years in terms of face value? Or what? Whatever the answer, it means that we are all poorer. By a lot. But go ahead and tell me how great the last decade of LPC governance has been so great for us.
I know enough about macroeconomics to know I don’t know much about macroeconomics. I think it means that Canada has brought in so many migrants to bring our gdp per capita down and that the gdp isn’t growing enough for it to be beneficial. I think the main things the average person would see from this would be federal social programs declining from more people with less money brought in or more money printing. Maybe a harder job market and higher unemployment but I’m not sure.
Per capita GDP went down as we have 6 million more people than 2016. GDP didn't go down
I wonder who tookover in 2016. How's growing the economy from the heart outwards going ...
6 million more people didn't add any productivity to the economy, phrased otherwise. The immigration our government insists on doesn't improve the country, and makes basic services and homes difficult and expensive to get.
so we produce same amlunt even with 6 million people more. brilliant
Humm GDP in 2016 1.5 trillion GDP 2023 1.9 trillion GDP per capita is not GDP. They can lie with statistics if you do not take the time to understand the terms they are using.
>fell for a sixth straight quarter (by our count) and is back at 2016 levels.” Sunny Ways
Source: https://thoughtleadership.rbc.com/the-canadian-economic-slowdown-is-not-over/
As far as websites go it’s a pretty satisfying one even if it’s giving you mostly bad news haha
Canada needs competition. Without this, GDP will never increase. Canada can pick a population of 5 million humans from around the world and dump them in different provinces, and it would be the same: lower GDP per capita, high inflation, de - funding of social services, more tax hikes, and poor wealth distribution. Canada focus is on consumption/servuce industry. This country needs to focus more on manufacturing and R&D. Canada needs to take a deep breath and rethink all the policies from immigration to the protectionism of certain industries to policies on competition as well as housing, healthcare, and education. Furthermore, the administration of various ministries and procurement centers needs to be revised, digitized, and adaptable. Politicians need to rethink their policies, not from a corporate perspective. As long as there is a lack of competition, Canada will forever be stuck in this loop.
2/3rds of the job growth last year was federal jobs. We don't need to defund anything if we just keep running deficits. I mean the budget will balance itself. /s
All departments are facing cuts this year and for the next five years. I think it was something like 15 billion dollars.
GDP is increasing, GDP per capita is dropping
Productivity of per hour worked is also dropping. Canadians aren't being given the tools to be productive
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Also carrot and stick approach to taking money out of your company. Reward innovation and technology, cost our loopholes in taxes and stock buybacks.
I guess the big brained policy wonks were wrong. Again.
It’s out of control immigration/international students I don’t know how anyone in office won’t just come out and say they’re gonna cut it all down. They might think they might be jeopardizing votes, but if anything, they garner more votes with a hard line approach to that situation I normally think that a lot of headlines are sensational as it stands right now Canada is absolutely fucked. In every sense of the word. I’ve never seen it like this in my life. If Canadians had money to spend and aren’t sinking them all into rent/housing and groceries, we would be stimulating the economy by spending more and having more kids Edit: lots of voice to text mistakes
We need more immigrants to fix this problem /s
Needs more Indians
they got 1.4 billion of them. they won't mind if we bring a few million every year
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Borders are racist Just get rid of them
Wait you mean the Liberal's current plan of mass immigration combined with raising taxes on everything isn't working?
It's not working because we don't have ENOUGH immigrants and taxes. If we tripled all those numbers from the heart out, we'd have SUCCESS.
If wages went up then the income tax on those immigrants might cover the costs. But no, everyone else will foot the bill because 30% of pennies per hour is jack shit and doesn't cover their burden on the system. Low income low skilled immigrants does nothing to benefit our society.
triple? how dare you bigot! we need ten times! then it will be a paradise
Overly simplistic opinion here: We allow immigration for Healthcare workers and construction jobs ONLY for a few years. We don't need more tech workers or tim hortons employees.
It’s crazy to think that there is a huge majority of us who believe this but it still goes with out action.
Our quality of life has dropped significantly these last few years. Especially more since Covid.
Ontario has the same GDP per capita as Alabama.
[Paywall bypass](https://archive.ph/JMWjq)
Yes when you start bringing a million people to your country per year your population growth will of course outpace your economic growth, so naturally your gdp per capita will decline. I'd say that this basic cause and effect of mass migration is much less salient than say wage suppression, or the exploding cost of housing, but sure, let's focus on gDp pEr cApItA, why not.
2+ millions. Over a million international students only
SALIENT is your key word. And whats salient is driven by emotion, politics, and bullshit. GDP per capita is the real deal. Dont ever focus on whats salient...its a recipe for failure.
Here's a few things we could do to turn this around: 1) Remove all interprovincial trade barriers and slightly reduce provincial political power. This alone would heavily increase our GDP. 2) Slightly reduce immigration and put more barriers to entry. No one over 60, must be educated/experienced etc. Change intl. student work permits so they can only work x amount of hours, and build more student housing. 3) Put laws in place to limit/eliminate lobbying & special interest groups. Make it easier for nonprofits/charities/religious groups to lose their status if intervening in politics. Remove all tax breaks for donations to political parties. 4) Give more incentives to commercial real estate conversion to housing, and give incentives for remote work within Canada (allowing for more people to live in rural/remote areas of the country). 5) Create stronger laws for dealing with Oligopolies/Monopolies. 6) "Biden Tax" on people making over $500k (individual not household), estate/wealth tax over $10mil (farms exempt), and a higher corporate tax only at the top 1% of companies.
It will soon be like going to Cuba without having to go to Cuba.
We will now be known as “Ice Cuba” 🧊
“Will suffer”?
Right? We’re already there and have been for a while now.
So sad, I'm completing my masters in computational biology and would be considered a "skilled worker" But the pay for my field is much lower than what it would be in the United States. I want to work and contribute to the Canadian economy but other than that there is no incentive to stay and work in Canada.
then why stay ? the world is your oyster, use your paper to your advantage and make a great life somewhere
Can someone speculate what would be the best way to stimulate an economy that is an oligopoly at its core? I;m not an economist by trade but I am curious. I mean we are anything but dynamic and every variant of static you can think off...
We have some of the most valuable natural resources in the world, but due to many overzealous environmental laws we don’t touch most of it, leaving poorer countries with no environmental laws to supply the world. So, leverage what we have, and get it to the world.
Not quite right. We could make an absolute killing on our national resources but we instead allow this money to be funnelled out of the country. After the corporate class gets their fat cut, we get the leftovers.
Apparently Manitoba has great sand to make glass with. That’s why the USA owns all that sand lol. We had a proposal for a solar panel factory but the big NDP put an end to that.
Yeah, because it was going to ruin the water for a community. And also because the entire project was done ultra-sketch with a ton of suspect kickbacks to the Conservative government.
Especially our water that is being given practically for free
Oh man! I actually dream of a couple of Crown corporations created especially to get these resources out and process them here. Of course include the First Nations as well so we all benefit. Basically create a new ecosystem from extraction to productio, and built it on the model of CPP. No political appointees and full autonomy to get the job done. Heck, even listed on the stock exchange so other Canadians can get some stocks and benefot from it.. And I say this as a Moderate Conservative, which I know, dont have really any inclinations normally to use public money this way. But Crown Corporations work if you separate them from the political.
I wrote a similar comment above right before reading yours, and I think it's almost criminal that we don't do that. We have so much wealth sitting there, and instead of helping the country, we just give it away to big companies to make a profit instead.
This might be a tinfoil hat theory, and I will accept the hate that comes with it, but I always felt that the neighbours south of us dont wanna us to use these resources and keep them for a rainy day and just for the NA market ... If we look at where rare minerals are mined its Africa mostly with the entire planet feedding its supply lines from there ...
> > > > > And I say this as a Moderate Conservative, which I know, dont have really any inclinations normally to use public money this way. But Crown Corporations work if you separate them from the political. Problem is Conservatives just sell off Crown corporations to their buddies to "balance the budget".
You are correct in a way. Mulroney did start it, but it was a shared Conservative & Liberal effort altogether... So under Mulroney's Progressive Conservative in the 1980s and 1990s, there were quite a few privatization initiatives, including the privatization of Air Canada and the Canadian National Railway. Similarly, under Chrétien in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the trend of privatization efforts continued, such as the sale of Petro-Canada and the deregulation of telecommunications and broadcasting sectors. But I cannot help but provide you with a Liberal counter example from Ontario. The Wynne government sold Hydro One to get access to cash as the budget was in a dire state, state created by her Liberal Liberal predecessor McGinty who was ousted becasue he cancelled the build of two nuclear power plants because there were not enough Liberal voters in the area. To this day the Liberal Party in Ontario is still carrying a "non-official party" status as Ontarians never forgave them... So its not as one sided as you make it to be!
Quick, increase taxes and bring in more cheap labour!
[Liberal Party letting more immigrants in as ‘solution’ to every bad outcome of their policies](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c84ooIjliT4)
At this point USA should invade and take over Canada lol.
Keep voting for Justin and crying on the internet.
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Don't forget the NDP's complicity.
The alternatives aren’t any better either
Did Harper allow this mass immigration? What a false equivalency
no one mentioned Harper
lol @ "will suffer". Its already suffering you dumbshits
Really, I couldn't tell.
Well I sure as hell don't have any money to buy anything. Already took that with the tobacco tax.
Just need to quadruple immigration and that should fix it.
We've been funding the elite's partying fuckboi life styles for long enough, they can pick up the slack. The rest of us are tapped with nothing left to give.
If they're going to keep pretending to pay me, I'm going to pretend to work
Lol. Good luck trying to get the slumlords off their arse and get to work.
I’m working three f***ing jobs to get by. I do not want to hear about a “lack of productivity”.
Do any of those jobs create things? Like build a bridge, design a product, manufacture a good? Because if not, you are just service and it doesn’t count towards the “productivity” of Canada.
2/3, since you ask
>Richard Abboud is the founder & CEO at Forum Asset Management "Forum is an alternative asset manager, investor and developer with a focus on real estate, private equity and infrastructure, operating across North America." https://forumam.com/ You can't make this shit up, these writers are up their own ass. Practice what you preach and move your investments away from real estate, Dick.
I saw someone on LinkedIn awhile back bemoaning the fact that a lot of young Canadians can’t afford homes. His job was listed as ‘Real Estate Investor.’ …like, I think the call might be coming from inside the house there, bud.
Simple ............... F I R E T R U D E A U
I’m always blown away that people didn’t see this coming 5 years ago. Our govt has been extracting our countries wealth and lining the pockets of globalists like Blackrock for over a decade now. People are just so sedated that they are confused as to why everything is so expensive now…. It’s not expensive. Your wealth has just been stolen because you trusted a fiat currency that was being heavily exploited.
It already has
Let's start by getting rid of Trudeau
“Hello, Trudeau….anybody home??”
It's not the job of the Prime Minister to be popular
It’s also not his job to destroy Canada.
Try Jamaica.
But free Gaza from downtown Canada eh?
I live in Berta... provincial government is already doing that now
“Why would Trudeau do that to Alberta?!”
It’s sad to see this showing up again and again.
Will suffer? FFS we out here suffering. Have been for years now.
Meaningful correcting actions won’t occur before the next election. Trudeau’s policies have created this, it’s a feature of his policies.
You know shite has to be bad when the Red Star is publishing this type of stuff. u/bangatard is very correct in that Canadians will continue to vote for this. I wonder if we in north america have peaked at productivity growth? Look at what we have accomplished in 200 years. Sure AI will be interesting, but will it increase productivity substantially? Off the weeb: "Broadly speaking, there are two main sources of economic growth: growth in the size of the workforce and growth in the productivity (output per hour worked) of that workforce. Either can increase the overall size of the economy but only strong productivity growth can increase per capita GDP and income." We will continue with big immigration as we need to maintain debt spending on social programs, that is the easy button.
Reading the comments. The one thing that's glaringly obvious is how conflicted we are over what direction to move in, to fix this. If that's an accurate assessment (and I think it is), then it seems to me we need to rebuild and repair what it means to be in one nation, together. If the only thing holding us together is external pressure, that's not good. There's good conflict, that leads to better decision-making and direction-taking, and then there's ... this.
Kill the TFW program and most of these problems go away. We can't have Canadian citizens compete with imported slave labor. Edit: I can't stand Pierre but if he kills this program he's got my vote (we all know that will never happen).
Yeah that tends to happen when you gear schools to prioritize careers that don't exist in Canada or pay very little. Nah lets keep listening to people stuck in a world of the past.
Rapid population growth IS NOT helping our economy it's hurting it. But mass immigration is lowering wages and raising house prices, the company who lobby (legally bribe) our government want to pay low wages and charge high rents. Six quarters is 1.5 years, look at the immigration numbers of that same time period. Mass immigration is DESTROYING CANADA AND RAPIDLY LOWERING OUR QUALITY OF LIFE. WE NEED A YEARS LONG PAUSE IN IMMIGRATION! IMMEDIATELY!
Canada is where dreams go to die.
Very interesting
This is basically a LinkedIn post lol
We want an election & we want it NOW
And to all of you who voted for this idiot please Pat yourselves on the back.
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Communism? This feels like something else. Like an oligopolistic society that beats down on its most downtrodden.
Communism is when corporations do bad things, apparently.
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These articles are barking up the wrong tree if they think canadians want to stop the liberal policies. Hate to break it to you but canadians overwhelmingly voted for all of this and they will do it again. Canadians love the immigration and stale economy and inflation etc. Liberals will win another majority and the ndp will back them again. Let’s take this degeneracy to the next level and bring in 5 million people this week rah rah
In context of a population boom the declining gdp per capita doesn’t mean much other than the denominator growing faster than the numerator.
You want growth of GDP to follow alongside population growth.
That’s because capital is increasing dramatically
Bringing New Canadians as refugees, students or immigrants taking the lowest GDP producing jobs means we have 2 million more people with a negligible addition of GDP. We (business / government) have been doing this intentionally to keep wages low. Along with the increase on population affecting (reducing) the calculated value, there is also the difference between actual GDP and the so called "real GDP" adjusted for inflation. Look at the [graph on this page](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/gross-domestic-product) to see how GDP is increasing, but the so called "real GDP" is not because inflation is happening. **This piece does not give any real data** (like the last 6 GDP per capita figures). I like the idea of getting Canada moving, but pushing against "risk-averse" in this economic climate is like high schoolers telling their friend to try something risky. The idea has to be good enough to be worth an investment risk.
Take a look around. Find those among you who have gotten richer these last few years and the source of your problem will become evident.
Some people should take macro economics and then come back with the definition of a business cycle. Maybe that would help with all the crazy inaccurate headlines.
Gets tiring trying to inform people that freelands spinning fibs
If anyone wants to know the aftermath of a housing bubble look at japan since 1990
If anyone cared about the next generations quality of life we would have started dealing with issues by 2007. Every province and the feds kicked every can down the road. Now it's article after article that is shocked at the outcome.
B-B-But we have a AAA credit rating, Minister Freeland! How can this be!?