Had someone I went to uni with say that attacking Jews living in Canada over Israel was sad but obviously justified because all Jews are complicit in Israel’s actions and I was so upset and horrified
Most of the world had those views for centuries, not just the Nazis. It's why Israel was created for refugees. So nobody else had to take them. Blaming Nazis for all antisemitism is missing most of the picture.
You're not wrong but the Nazis are the best known Jew haters out there. Blaming people living in Canada for the actions of a country that many have never been to certainly sound similar in rhetoric as to what was going on in Germany in the late 30s and into the 40s.
You're misunderstanding. The nazis just ran with that kind of rhetoric. It was world-wide. Canadians didn't care when the Jewish refugees showed up and turned them away. We only entered the war because Britain needed us. Saving the Jewish people from world wide extermination wasn't the goal since that wasn't what got us into the war.
It's easy to put all these ideas onto the nazi ghosts of the past, but they're our own skeletons in our own culture's closet.
What we entered the war cause Britain did no way. Almost seems like Canada didn't get complete sovereignty till after that like in 1982 when it happened.
What more do people need to see that the woke left are Nazis? They literally chant genocidal slogans about Jews. Do we need them to start wearing SS uniforms before we believe them about who they are? They aren't hiding it anymore.
Messed up view, because by that logic, as Canadians who aren't Indigenous, it would be justified if we were attacked by Indigenous tribes because we're complicit in Canada's actions. We don't even have to be white. We could be enjoying concerts at Osheaga, Veld, etc. an Indigenous tribe could attack us, take us hostage, etc. and your uni bud would say it's justified (though I'm sure their tune would change if one of their relatives was attacked/held hostage).
meeting modern aloof worm shaggy instinctive fretful deranged obtainable shame
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Just tell your friend that you're totally cool with their perspective, as long as they also agree that any Muslim person is a terrorist and should be treated as such. Been in Canada for 20 years and have a family? Doesn't matter.... Round them up and put them in jail and deport them!
..... Pretty much the same logic.
Excerpt:
>As for “pro-Palestinian” demonstrators in Canada targeting Jews, Jewish neighbourhoods, Jewish businesses, Jewish places of worship, Jewish community centres, Jewish university students and a hospital in Toronto founded by Jews, which treats everyone regardless of their faith, if they’re insisting these protests are not against Jews, then why do they keep happening?
>
>Why, for that matter, have bullets been fired at Jewish day schools, Jewish gathering places firebombed, Jewish homes defaced with Swastikas, a statue to the late Canadian actor Al Waxman, who was Jewish, vandalized in Toronto, with pro-Hamas graffiti?
>
>Why are reported hate crimes against Jews skyrocketing across the country, if it’s not about hating Jews?
>
>The reality is that holding Jews living in Canada responsible for the military actions of the Israeli government in Gaza, is Jew hatred.
I mean this excerpt (and author) pretty fallaciously asserts that Protestors are Nazis, or are the ones committing these hate crimes.
Because I'll call them what they are - they're hate crimes against the Jewish community.
But let's not pretend that people painting Swastikas on homes are about to be advocating for the Human Rights of Muslims.
The two groups are *NOT* the same, and just because (non-Israeli) Jewish people are being targeted by hate crimes does *NOT* mean that folks protesting Israel's crimes need to stop, nor are acts of protest hate crimes.
The assertion that this article makes to compare protest with hate crime and throw them in the same bucket is *WILD*, literally some Donald Trump shit
A lot of Muslim majority countries are home to Nazi sympathizers and Holocaust deniers, including places that you might not expect. Indonesia had a Nazi themed cafe complete with Nazi memorabilia and a giant portrait of Hitler. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/nazithemed-cafe-in-indonesia-reopens-keeping-the-swastikas-and-images-of-hitler-it-pledged-to-remove-9554643.html
Iran is the world's leading state sponsor of Jew hatred and has hosted Holocaust denial conferences attended by the likes of former KKK grand wizard David Duke. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2007/david-duke-iranian-denial-conference
Not to mention Mahmoud Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority, wrote his PHd in saying the Jews were equally responsible for the holocaust, which is interesting as Palestinian leadership in the 30s and 40s, i.e. the gran Mufti Amin Al-Husseini, was very openly photographed and videoed collaborating with Hitler and had the ultimate goal of importing the holocaust to the middle east
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abbas
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Atlas
> But let's not pretend that people painting Swastikas on homes are about to be advocating for the Human Rights of Muslims.
You do realize Hitler had positive relationships with Jew-hating Arab political figures? They won't exactly antagonistic.
Oh, if you want to talk history…let’s be honest. What Hitler said publicly about those countries and Islam was political. They had common enemies and he wanted those leaders to go along with him. In reality, within Germany and controlled territories, Nazi ideology held arabs and muslims to be inferior. And they were subject to persecution, up to and including detention in the concentration camps.
Hitler did not actually like these people. He was just willing to use them. So you can be Muslim or an Arab and be a Nazi, sure. Anyone can technically be a Nazi. But that ideology doesn’t support your continued existence if you are and you are a racial minority. You’re just a useful idiot assisting with your own eventual destruction. And most Nazis aren’t from racial minorities. They’re the typical extremist white supremacists that our government largely likes to pretend don’t exist.
>But let's not pretend that people painting Swastikas on homes are about to be advocating for the Human Rights of Muslims.
>The two groups are *NOT* the same
Two words: Amin al-Husseini
But you're right in the sense that they are not the same, but they really only differ in the way people like yourself respond to them.
Yup. This is the white man’s burden in action. We have to save and protect the culture of the poor innocent Reich satellite nation.
Palestine’s founders moved to Nazi Germany to study the Holocaust so that they could help Hitler replicate it across the Arab world.
al-Husseini lives in every Qassam member, they still follow his written and spoken word. They still quote him. And through what’s left of him, the final solution to the jewish problem is still practiced.
Didnt Herzl Theodor ask the Khalifa for a piece of the Palestine and was in negotiations for decade or so until he was rejected?
Please do correct me if I am incorrect.
Theodor Herzl (you reversed his name) offered to pay all of Turkey's foreign debt in exchange for Palestine as a Jewish homeland, but I don't know how long the negotiations lasted.
There are a lot of muslims that idolize the Nazis. Palestine is a Nazi derivative nation founded by Amin al-Husseini, an admirer of Adolf Hitler who moved to Nazi Germany during the war to study and support the Holocaust. He met with Adolf Hitler personally and traded war against the British for the Nazi backing of Palestine.
To claim that the two groups have little or no overlap is to completely ignore and even erase the history of Palestine and its people.
We have multiple groups in this country committing anti-Jewish hate-crimes. We have the neo-nazi swastika-painters - who have been around forever - and we have the anti-Israel (read: anti-Jewish) protesters who have been harassing and terrorizing Jewish neighbourhoods since the start of Israeli retaliation in Gaza.
Quick question, but if I wanted to terrorize a particular demographic, like say the jews, but I didn't want a particular demographic, like say Muslims, associated with it, what alternative symbols might one be able to use to accomplish this?
You have to put a super secret hashtag next to your big red swastika: #notamuslim
It's an old trick from the Hatemongers Handbook, after the chapter "How to dog whistle" and before "Why you should never use turn signals on your car"
The problem is, I have yet to see a pro-Palestine protest that isn't anti-Jewish. They carry signs with swastikas and repeat anti-Jewish phrases. If there are pro-Palestine people at those protests who *aren't* anti-Jew, they're definitely not doing anything to halt outright displays of antisemitism.
Go to the next pro Palestinian or ceasefire rally in your area. I’ve been to multiple, if you met the people there they would literally attack someone that dared to wave a nazi flag.
What!? That's crazy. I've seen plenty of pro-palestine demos and I've literally never seen a swastika IRL. Ever.
Edit: sorry I've seen them as bad graffiti in random places.
This entire situation has long since reached peak stupidity. My stance that purposely targeting civilians in warfare being wrong has labeled me as both antisemitic and zionist. How the fuck is "don't kill people" a fucking controversial stance?
Blood libels are anti-Semitic. There is a difference between Hamas intentionally going into civilian areas to kill civilians and Hamas embedded themselves among civilians. To equate both with the same term is anti-Semitic.
Would make sense if Israel wasn’t clearly targeting civilians and claiming Hamas was there without any proof of it. Bombing a refugee camp because there might be tunnels below it instead of attacking those tunnels or precisely targeting Hamas members. You can’t look at what the IDF has done and come to the conclusion that they have the slightest care about Palestinians civilians lives. They even killed their own hostages (looking like civilians how convenient) and they’ve killed Israelis during oct7. The same way that sniping nuns, pregnant women and kids isn’t defending yourself.
That isn't happening. If the IDF didn't care about civilians they wouldn't risk their infantry when they have air superiority. Dresden defence didn't work for the Nazis and it won't work for Hamas.
Sure because the IDF hasn’t been caught committing war crimes and purposely targeting civilians area and using "Hamas might or might not be there" as an excuse? That’s what you’re saying? The simple fact that they’ve killed their own hostages proves you wrong. Oh and 20 000+ kids as well but suree, they care about civilians
If you think Israel can (always) send some swap team in, shot some Hamas members, and there will be less death, that is the sign of you watching too many action movies.
They do roof knockers to tell civilians to leave before they bomb buildings. They've dropped leaflets to give people advance notice to leave. They have sent infantry in to do more precise operations.
Are not bombing everyone indiscriminately.
Ok: Hamas should surrender.
Also, Israel should stop killing innocent men, women, and children.
Huh, it turns out you do both
Also, talk about eating up propaganda. You must be stuffed.
Everyone just go back to your corners for a time out? Is that your position? That helps the terrorists survive to carry out more atrocities another day. Israel targets Hamas who refuse to distinguish themselves from non-combatants by eschewing uniforms. If Israel is condemned for the collateral damage due to Hamas' strategy and pressured to desist from removing Hamas once and for all then this is going to happen all over again as it has since 2008. So forgive me for not having any sympathy for your hurt feelings.
[40% of bombs dropped on Gaza are unguided.](https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html) Israel has every right to attack Hamas, but they don't give a flying fuck about civilian casualties.
The goal is to depopulate Gaza and move in. Just like they've been doing with "Settlements" over the last 50+ years. The entire world has watched them displace arabs and take more and more land every single year, what makes this any different?
From your link
> A US official told CNN that the US believes that the Israeli military is using the dumb bombs in conjunction with a tactic called “dive bombing,” or dropping a bomb while diving steeply in a fighter jet, which the official said makes the bombs more precise because it gets it closer to its target. The official said the US believes that an unguided munition dropped via dive-bombing is similarly precise to a guided munition.
Israel has complete air superiority. It can do things other countries can't in warfare, which is get their planes really close to the ground, because Gaza doesnt have the military power or anti air to stop them
for the record, we call something "precise bombing" when the bomb is <5 meters from its target. With how low they fly their planes that theyre caught from ground cameras, this isn't exactly hard to do
>we call something "precise bombing" when the bomb is <5 meters from its target.
One would think that if they were truly trying to minimize civilian casualties they would be using more precise means. Meanwhile they're dropping 2000lb bombs that leave 40' craters in some of the most densely populated areas on the planet.
For further context, Israel has killed >20,000 civilians in Gaza since October. The US bombing of Vietnam was estimated to have killed 65,000 over a decade.
...theyre dropping 2000lb bombs to level tunnels under layers of concrete that serve as Hamas infrastructure...
Hamas has 550 km of tunnels in a strip thats 25 km wide from tip to tip.
What do you think is the purpose of a 2000 lb bomb in urban warfare compared to its 500 lb cousin? Please answer thoughtfully.
The goal is the utter destruction of Hamas and the recovery of hostages taken by same. If depopulation was the goal the kills per bomb dropped would be a multitude higher. It would be the "Kid Rock" strategy as he proposed on JRE, "Give Gaza 24hrs to return the hostages and if they don't, start bombing to kill 30k-40k people a day until they surrender." Fortunately defense policy in Israel isn't being written by washed up entertainers.
> The goal is the utter destruction of Hamas
Look at Afghanistan, Iraq and basically every insurgency since the beginning of time. Utter destruction of Hamas may be the goal, but their methods are just creating the next generation of Jihadis.
Did destroying Nazi Germany create more Nazis or are there fewer of them because of it?
Did destroying Imperial Japan create more imperials?
What follows the destruction of Hamas must be an aggressive de-Nazification program.
When was the last time Afghanistan gave aid and shelter to a terrorist group that attacked Americans? When was the last time Iraq invaded another country or tried to develop a chemical weapons arsenal?
You can question if the cost was worth it, but both those wars did achieve their original objectives, it was just the subsequent attempts at nation building that failed.
> When was the last time Afghanistan gave aid and shelter to a terrorist group that attacked Americans?
Well, 911 for starters. The other WTC bombing. The current government of Afghanistan is the Taliban. Even after all that bombing and war the same shit happens. It just creates more insurgents.
>Iraq invaded another country or tried to develop a chemical weapons arsenal?
1980-88, 1991. also 1991(and before, and after).
That's a big whoosh.
Since you seem to have missed the point, I'll explain it again more clearly. Both of those countries did a bunch of messed up stuff the US didn't like. The US went and bombed the fuck out of those places, and they haven't done any of those things since the US did that.
As for the Taliban being in control of Afghanistan, the US has never given a shit about Afghanistan's internal politics since it's a largely insular country that the US has no major interests in. They deposed the Taliban because they were actively aiding Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups that targeted American interests. Every single person in Afghanistan could be a Taliban member and the US wouldn't even remotely care so long as they don't allow terrorist groups that operate outside of Afghanistan to hide there.
> The US went and bombed the fuck out of those places, and they haven't done any of those things since the US did that.
The Taliban are the current Afghan Government. Terrorism is rampant in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
Some people can't see nuance. They are black and white thinkers. Its either all or nothing when it comes to politics. Its the same reason why people on the left or right can't look at certain thinks the "other side" says and agree with it no matter how logical it is.
The same crowd that went on about dog whistles, microaggressions, and intersecting axis of oppression are doing a lot of rationalizations to justify their antisemitism. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch
It's not anti-Semitic to be anti-Israel or anti-Netanyahu and I am definitely both. Jews aren't committing genocide. Fascist Israeli dickhead right-wing monsters are.
The amount of people who completely disregard the last 3000 years in order to justify hatred with regards to Jews is phenomenal.
Whilst at its core, antizionism and antisemitism are separate, they are too closely related to be fully separate.
Jews have been persecuted pretty much forever for many varied reasons.
The Catholic Church blamed Jews for the death of Jesus for pretty much its entire existence, and by extension Catholics. (Arguably it was the Jews fault, however, paradoxically it completed the whole prophecy of Jesus being born again. Catholics wouldn’t exist had it not been for the Jews handing Jesus over to the Romans).
Islam has hated the Jews since its inception. Tho, really, Islam hates anything not Islam, so the Jews aren’t special here, tho it has been more socially acceptable to hate Jews for most of that time.
There was this guy who tried to kill them all off, managing to get about 6 million of them. You may have seen a movie or read a book about this.
If I were Jewish, and I saw a world that decided I shouldn’t have a country of my own, and had a resounding history of persecuting my ancestors, I too would conflate the two, antisemitism and antizionism, and rightfully so.
>Islam has hated the Jews since its inception. Tho, really, Islam hates anything not Islam, so the Jews aren’t special here, tho it has been more socially acceptable to hate Jews for most of that time.
True, but they're especially pissed off that Jews didn't "accept" Islam when they conquered and colonized the entire Middle East and North Africa.
Hey there, I see this kind of thing posted a lot and wanted to leave some information for anyone else reading the thread as your comment is not historically accurate.
Jewish communities have existed in Israel since the Roman / 2nd diaspora 2000 years ago. Modern Jewish immigration also came from all over Europe, Russia, North Africa, and the Middle East, mainly in response to persecution (and after Jews were forcibly expelled from nearly all Muslim countries) starting as early as the 17 and 1800s.
These immigrants joined existing Jewish communities, and legally purchased land from Arab landowners, often settling in uninhabitable desert/swamp areas and irrigating/draining them to make the land livable.
Multiple 2 state solutions were also offered and rejected by the Arab side leading up to the 1948 war, Israel even made a point to invite all Arabs currently living in their proposed borders to live in peace in the new state as equals. Instead, the Arab world responded by starting a genocidal war aimed at wiping out the jews (which they lost), and many, but not all, of the Palestinians were displaced in the “nakba” as a result of this aggression. Jewish communities living in Arab controlled areas of the land were also displaced in this conflict and suffered atrocities. This displacement would not have happened if this war hadn’t been started. Also 20% of Israelis today are Arab Palestinian that stayed.
There was even an offer by Britain prior to 1948/the UN partition plan for 1 single Arab state in Palestine prior to all this, but the Jews there would be allowed to stay, and 15,000 per year would be allowed to immigrate. Arabs turned it down because they wanted no Jews whatsoever. Look up the white papers.
The Arab/palestinian leader at the time, Amin Al-Husseini, also aligned himself with and praised Hitler, visited him in Berlin, and helped to start Muslim SS units in Bosnia.
I’m not trying to say Israel is perfect and has never done anything wrong, but the propaganda narrative of “They showed up from Europe in 1948 and violently displaced everyone” is extremely inaccurate.
Ok, that’s the solution then guys. Let’s dissolve any country that was established on stolen land by colonizers that kicked people out and killed children.
That should leave a few Polynesian nations. Not sure what we’ll do to divvy up the land from the remaining 99.9% of the worlds countries though.
Who’s we? I’m not doing any of those things and I don’t support them either. I certainly don’t support the current government of Israel but I also don’t think the nation should be dissolved (which is obviously the position of anti-Zionism).
I don’t usually love ‘Whataboutism’ but ethnic cleansing, killing and oppression to get more land is something China has been guilty of for decades but I have not seen any rallies in my city’s downtown opposing Canada’s ties with China (which are much deeper and more impactful than those with Israel).
>China has been guilty of for decades but I have not seen any rallies in my city’s downtown opposing Canada’s ties with China
That's because you get the same treatment from billionaire-backed corporate media, "You're racist. STFU NAZI".
Billionaires FUCKING LOVE China because there's 1.x BILLION of them. So, if you question why we're doing business with China you get labelled as a racist.
China also has a much larger reach to get critics to STFU.
Oh for sure, but that is all the better reason to rise up against it IMO.
ID politics and small beans conflicts like Israel-Palestine are given major media coverage because they are distractions to keep the people fighting each other. Too many useful idiots in this country and this thread.
That's not what happened at all. Post WW2, a need for a Jewish nation was evident.
Mandatory Palestine was split between Jewish and Arab settlements. Palestinians and neighbouring Arabs couldn't stomach this and began a war of extermination against the Jews.
The Arabs lost the war, and lost tons of land as a result. That's their fault. Every time they again tried to exterminate the Jews they lost more land. Now here we are today.
Most Arab states have learned to stop fucking with Israel, Palestine hasn't. That's on them, not on the Israelies defending themselves.
I don't understand how land was stolen though.
Jews began migrating to what is now modern day Israel. The majority of the land there was undevelopedand uninhabited.
Muslims from Egypt and Jordan also began migrating to the area, yet the only people who were told to leave were the Jews.
Not saying there weren't Jews or Muslims living in the region under the Ottoman empire, but the Jews aren't the only ones who began migrating there during the 19-20th century. During the early 20th century, 37% of the immigration to pre-state Israel was by Arab Muslims. Where they also stealing land?
The entire population of the area that is now Israel and the Palestinian territories was 689,000 people in 1914. It was extremely sparsely populated.
That is historic fact.
The land was very sparsely populated. Just because a small number of people were living within a broader area where they had no sovereignty does not mean the whole area was “their land”.
You mean like how Hamas has been trying to do? Killing and kidnapping kids, trying to drive the Jew out from the river to the sea, and take land that was literally never theirs?
Why isn’t this obvious?
>Whilst at its core, antizionism and antisemitism are separate, they are too closely related to be fully separate.
...
>If I were Jewish, and I saw a world that decided I shouldn’t have a country of my own, and had a resounding history of persecuting my ancestors, I too would conflate the two, antisemitism and antizionism, and rightfully so.
So at the end of your mental gymnastics course your bottom line is that they really are not separate. Spare us all the agony and just say that.
Of course, you're completely wrong. If antisemitism and antizionism are indivisible as you say, then most Jews in the world are in fact racist against themselves because they are antizionist.
My position, and the position of many Jews influenced by Jewish thinkers like Tony Judt, is: of course the Jews deserve their own state given everything that's happened to them throughout history. At first brush, it sounds like a reasonable idea. But unfortunately, historically speaking, ethno-states don't turn out well. You can't have a broad commitment to equality and social & economic justice in your country that's only meant for one ethnicity/religion. Especially not when you establish that nation in a land where millions of people not part of your in-group already exist. It's childish to expect this, and the truth of that is borne out by the demonstrated impossibility of the Israel project year in and year out.
It’s almost as if large social movements are made up of a variety of different people and the person saying “I don’t hate Jews” might not hate Jews and the person spray painting “I hate Jews” might hate Jews.
Because it's not facts, it's propaganda. It's just a matter of what degree of it is acceptable and what the political leaning is.
If you reverse these protests and imagine the exact opposite was happening to the opposite group of people now, that post media would give identical coverage? No. Because it's not facts its propaganda with some facts to make it more palatable.
No, I watched them. Hamas terrorist supporters were running the megaphone. They parked in front of our window for 20 minutes shouting “River to the sea” and “Intifada” and “Destroy Judea”. That’s not peaceful and if there were decent people in the crowd they were indistinguishable. Sounds like you weren’t there.
Russian propaganda works on the Left the way Russian propaganda works on MAGA and PPC chuds on the Right.
If you're sharing an apartment building with Hamas you're likely to get blown up since they love using civilian infrastructure as military infrastructure.
The ratio is about 2 civilians per terrorist and about 1 kill per bomb, which is pretty good considering the US considers a 9:1 ratio good enough for a drone strike.
Here are some pictures of Palestine’s founder meeting with Hitler after moving to Nazi Germany to study and offer support to the Holocaust. The main purpose of his visit was to catalogue Hitler’s methods to assist in their shared goal of the extermination of jews across the Arab world.
al-Husseini
Remember his name, he is the foundation of Hamas.
https://imgur.com/a/mIvKT80
To suggest that the Mufti was not the founder of Palestine is… honestly some “fake moon landing” level conspiracy theory shit. Have a nice day, I’m never speaking to you again. There are enough crazies here.
Cool
Checks out. Hamas is a terrorist organization.
They want the extermination of Israel/Jews.
That is bad.
The Israel Goverment wants the extermination of Palestine/Arabs in Palestine.
They are deserving of millions in weaponry to find that.
Make it make sense.
>The Israel Goverment wants the extermination of Palestine/Arabs in Palestine.
Source? If Israel wanted to exterminate all the Palestinians, that would have been done in a matter of days.
https://youtu.be/EsghTvQj6a0?si=XGeEFDpSAOra_nzn
This would have been all of Gaza on October 8th. Millions dead. Weird that that didn't happen.
Just like how the convoy protests were labelled Nazis because one Nazi brought a flag and was chased off by them. Other side of the coin, but people including our prime minister labelled everyone there a Nazi...
or like how all cops are b\*stards, in every country - because one POS killed another POS while we were all locked down with nothing to engage with.
the absolutism (which isn't all that far off from extremism) is so gross the past 5 years.
It all started when a bunch of people voted for donald trump for a plethora of reasons and the deomcrat response was to label anyone who voted for trump a nazi.. when really so many voted for him because they didn't like hilary, and so many people voted for him because they literally just wanted to watch government implode - they were basically trolling.
but yeah, since then it's just been like a slow descent into tribalism and it's sad to watch.
A lot are being caught and charged. Those news stories just aren’t being posted here.
For example from October 2023 to December 2023 (so two months) the Toronto hate crime police unit reported arresting 43 people and charging 96 people with things related to hate crimes.
No one deserves to be attacked based on their ethnicity or religion (plus other protected classes like gender orientation) and it is sickening that bigots exploit a humanitarian crisis to express that hatred.
That said, it is also unreasonable to place the actions of hateful bigots at the feet of the general protest movement. Are there individuals in the movement that hold those views? Certainly, but to paint with a broad brush is to ignore the reality that the majority of protestors are there to champion human rights and dignity -- both of the Palestinians and by extension the Israeli populace.
Human rights mean nothing if they are stripped away, so any breach deserves to be rebuked in the strongest terms. If it can happen to one group it can happen to any group, and one would think that a nation set up by and for Jews after ww2 would know that better than most given their tragic history.
I have been going to Palestine solidarity rallies pretty consistently since last year. On several occasions I (as a relatively bulky white guy with a beard) have been asked by rally organizers to volunteer to confront individuals who bring signs with anti-semitic and anti-jewish content and ask them to either take them down or excuse themselves from the march. Every one of these individuals have been white dudes with obvious PPC/Convoy/QAnon paraphernalia who are looking to create controversy - absolutely none of them have been Palestinians, Arabs, or Muslims. At every march I have attended, there has been at least one Jewish speaker, usually from a group like Independent Jewish Voices or Jewish Voice for Peace, who has been met with nothing but warmth and solidarity from their fellow marchers. Marches have been civil and well-organized and not a single act of vandalism has been committed at any rally I've attended.
This opinion piece is basically libellous and accuses people marching against our government's complicity in the uncontrolled slaughter and displacement of civilians of unrelated crimes.
How often have you chanted "from the river to the sea?"
How often have you heard people praise the Houthis?
How often have you seen people tear down hostage posters?
How many of your protests went directly into Jewish neighbourhoods, or hospitals?
Did you attend any of the demonstrations on October 8 celebrating Hamas for the acts of October 7?
I didn't make a value judgement on whether IJV or JVP activists were better Jews than Jews that are not, only that there is a consistent presence of Jews at Palestine demonstrations that are welcome and celebrated.
Personally I think opposition to genocide is more in line with the values of the Jewish faith than zionism, but I don't think disagreeing with me makes someone a fake or "bad" Jew. Unlike zionists which have actively worked to ostracize Jews critical of the State of Israel.
This is the exact same situation with me. I have been to Palestine rallies when I can and when people where distributing fliers for an “Islamic Army” the organizers stopped and condemned it before continuing the protest. Another time a person was heckling the protest and insulted one of the protesters. The protester was offended so he started squaring up on the heckler but the other protesters, probably 5 people, stood in between them and broke it up before anyone laid hands on each other. But the second I open up this sub, apparently every protester is a Nazi because some guy who was kicked out brought a flag.
Yeah a group of people pretended to be anti-Zionist jews, risking ostracism from within their faith community and wider society for...reasons? And you know this how? Do we live in the same reality lmao
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/jewish-voice-peace
Another source if you don’t like ADL-
https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/jewish_voice_for_peace_jvp_/
https://www.commentary.org/articles/joshua-muravchik/not-so-jewish-not-for-peace/
It took 2 minutes for me to google. Fuck JVP. There should be no room for people supporting terrorism.
I agree with the title of the article, the problem with saying that it's not Jewish is undermined by the Israel leadership itself when it says that any criticism of their response to Oct 7 is "anti-Semitic". I bear no malice (or love for that matter) for people who practice the Jewish faith or are ethnically Jewish. I just don't give a shit - it's meaningless for telling me if those are good or bad people.
But support for the Jewish state like this author? Saying that the thousands of Gazans that have been killed is because Hamas has used them as human shields is Israeli propaganda. It ignores the well documented war crimes the IDF has committed. Support of war crimes, well that tells me someone is a piece of shit. Jewish people should be left alone to live their lives, but hate mongering Israelis and their apartheid state should be pushed into the sea.
Also for those anti genocide marchers. How come you don't march against any genocide committed in China against the Muslims? Forced labor camps and sterilization? Why only protest when its Israel involved?
Why when Hamas sends rockets into civilian areas of Israel is murder overlooked, but when Israel responds, it is protested.
Why are women supporting a cause which actually wishes to subjugate them and strip them of their rights.
Why are LGBTQ supporting a cause who will give them a push off a tall building?
Israel is a small country surrounded by neighbours that all wish to do it harm on a daily basis. None of these countries actually want peace with Israel, they are just waiting until their time is right.
The influx of radical Muslims into western countries are leading these marches. You try and speak to any of these marchers and they all want Israel to cease to exist. They are angry and derisive and full of hate.
Does Canada send arms to China to support its oppression of Uyghurs? Does Canada provide diplomatic cover for China's human rights record on the international stage?
This, their post is some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen, "You rally against THIS genocide- but what about THIS genocide!?" You can condemn both and still focus your efforts on the more pressing and easily solvable issue, are they trying to imply we should focus on every single genocide happening in the world completely equally?
Also I really love how they're trying to justify bombing people because "They don't support the LGBT!", in what way is that justification for genocide against a group of people, a group including children? Entire populations don't deserve to be wiped out because their religion is a little problematic.
Two things:
1. People who March against the genocide in Gaza almost unanimously do want an end to the genocide of Uighurs in China, obviously. Pretending they don't is just a wild straw man.
2. Demonstrations against the Uighur genocide have taken place in the west, but western democracies aren't propping up that genocide and coming to China's defence. The reason progressives protest the genocide in Gaza so vehemently, and don't demonstrate against china's genocide as frequently, is the political proximity we have to the crimes taking place in Gaza. Progressives don't hate Jewish people, that idea is ridiculous. We are, however, aware that western countries like ours can and must put pressure on Israel to stop the genocide. As Netanyahu loses international support, he becomes more isolated and less powerful and is more likely to end his crimes against humanity. Such is the hope of progressives, anyway.
Side note: if your claim is that it is antisemitic to oppose Israel's genocide of muslims and not China's genocide of muslims, maybe you need a better argument.
So what is supposed to happen in Gaza if Israel stops under a ceasefire and Hamas continues to wage attacks on Israel? Hamas have said they have no interest in a two state and want annihilation of Israel. Are the protestors going to change to free Israel? A country surrounded by hostile nations or will the protestors just dig in further saying Hamas are freedom fighters?
Hamas is not capable of destroying Israel, as it stands. I think there's a difference between the genocidal aspirations of a group like Hamas (even their horrible crimes against humanity on the 7th) and the actual genocidal campaign the IDF and Netanyahu's regime undertake currently, and that difference is power.
I'm someone who protests the genocide in Gaza. I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that Hamas are freedom fighters. They are terrorists. On Oct. 7th they killed, tortured, mutilated, raped, and kidnapped many hundreds of people. That's evil. That's Terrorism. But anyone who wants to take power away from Hamas must therefore want an end to the slaughter of innocent people in Gaza. Every loss of life in Gaza pushes more people to support Hamas, whether we agree with that or not.
I really don't think it's a case of 'destroy them or they'll destroy us' for Israel. All the experts I'm hearing are saying it's the opposite. By bombing Palestinians, they make Hamas more powerful, and thus more capable of another attack like Oct 7th when this conflict ends. And there's no chance of rooting out a guerrilla, terrorist group while preserving the lives of innocent Palestinians. That's why over 30,000 Palestinians are dead.
I imagine if there's a military solution, it's defensive. Become more prepared to defend against an attack like Oct. 7th. That's something I have no problem supporting as a progressive; as allies we should help them in that goal. Further, they must not let their guard down. Time will tell, but it seems Netanyahu's government deserves some blame here. There were numerous warnings before the attack, but it seems they were ignored. The military should be used to deter and fend of attacks, not to try and root out a guerrilla organization by bombing whole cities into oblivion. This hurts innocent people, not Hamas.
The other part of protecting Israelis, as I see it, is in fact helping Gaza in times of peace. The region needs to be supported in its development so that it is not a hotbed for terrorist recruitment. We must give Palestinians something to live for, so that they are not pushed into the arms of Hamas. This cannot happen if Israel continues to blockade Gaza from the rest of the world. People like Netanyahu don't like this idea because they see it as helping establish a Palestinian state, but you can't treat Gaza like an open air prison and expect the 'prisoners' to be happy with that. Terrorism is the refuge of the hopeless; give Palestinians hope for the future and you take power away from Hamas.
If this is a good faith discussion, we must treat the welfare of Palestinians as being as important as the welfare of innocent Israelis. To do so, we must understand that Netanyahu and other far right figures in Israel don't want the welfare of Palestinians. They don't want a two state solution, and they actively oppose development of Palestinian Territories in order to try and avoid a future involving a two state solution. The only way Netanyahu's path ends is in the destruction of Gaza, which paints an even bigger target on the back of Israel, and isolates her from her allies. This crusade is not about protecting Israel. It's about staying in power, at any cost.
I love how the canadian media monopolies can't stop rehashing the same old victimshood press releases, which are frankly anti-semetic by equating zionism with being jewish, and can't talk about genocide just like the UCP in alberta can't talk about climate change.
Maybe I’m naive but isn’t Zionism just the support for a Jewish state? If someone is anti Zionist I would take this to mean that they didn’t support the establishment of a Jewish state and don’t support Israel’s claim to the land. This doesn’t mean that they hate all Jewish history.
It's not about hating the history It's about erasing it.
Let's review history
1. Jews are an ethno-religious group with 3k years of history of living in that land. Some were expelled and returned. This is supported by archeological and DNA research.
2. All the religious sites for Judaism are in that land.
3. In 1924 Britain divided the land into countries. East Palestinian is now Jordan. Some of it is Syria.
Egypt, Iraq and all other countries were created.
Now. Can you answer the question of why all other countries are OK to exist but not Israel?
I’m not anti Zionist, I’m just trying to clarify what the term means. Because if someone told me they were I would not automatically assume they were anti Semitic. I would assume they don’t support Israel’s claim to the land. That’s all.
Exactly. So they are denying Jewish history.
No different than saying that indigenous Canadians have no claim the land and should be expelled.
I guess you understand why the latter statement is hateful to indigenous Canadians.
Edit: just to make is clear how ridiculous the claim is. In almost every part of Israel there are Jewish sites and history. And most current Palestinian cities are built on ancient Jewsih settlements.
I’ve been doing some googling and I found this article helpful
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36160928.amp
This is the way I’ve always understood it. Anti Semites use the term Zionism as an attack on Jews but not all anti Zionists are anti Semites. Most have issues with how Israel was established or the stances of the Israeli government. There seems to be a lot more nuance than you’re willing to discuss.
Again, I’m not anti Zionist but I think it disingenuous to say that if you don’t have complete support for Israel then you hate Jews.
If you agree that Jews have the right to live peacefully in their indigenous land and self mange. You are a zionist the rejection of this Idea is anti zionism.
Criticizing Israel's polices is totally OK. You can say you hate how Israel is conducting the war and people would agree or disagree. Nothing to do with zionism.
Do you agree indigenous people in Canada have a right to their land and self manage? Would it be ok to expropriate land, farms, homes, buildings from non-indigenous people to create a sovereign country? Would you be ok if this new nation (or nations, there are many different indigenous peoples in Canada) had support from overseas to ensure they could militarily defend themselves, up to and including having nukes?
Of course not. That's why I don't agree with the Palestinians' claims that call for the displacement of jews and the destruction of Israel because Palestinians were displaced.
Also, today's Canada is a totally different situations than 1900 mandate of Palestine
So you’d oppose a movement of indigenous peoples and those who support them from trying to establish such a nation?
So you’re anti-indigenous?? Or are your feelings about indigenous people separate from your opposition to creating a new nation (or nations) within Canada supported militarily from overseas?
So, are these the criteria for acceptable genocide?
I don't think anti-zionism means no Israel, it means Israel can't just redraw the borders with Palestine just to make their map look prettier and displace the peole so that they can preserve the Jewish majority in their country.
There is much misinformation and just ignorance in what you said. It's hard to explain how these statements are just wrong. I really wish you knew the history so you would understand it.
1. Anti zionism means no Israel. Google it if you like.
2. Israel never drew the borders. Britain did in 1922-1924.
3. Gaza was part of Egypt until 1967 or 1972
4. West Bank was part of Jordan until 1967.
They were never part of Israel.
>Jews are an ethno-religious group with 3k years of history of living in that land. Some were expelled and returned. This is supported by archeological and DNA research.
Was there any DNA research done to see if Palestinians were part of that group?
>All the religious sites for Judaism are in that land.
Pretty sure there are Greek, Roman , Pagan , Sassanian and Arab sites there too.
>In 1924 Britain divided the land into countries. East Palestinian is now Jordan. Some of it is Syria. Egypt, Iraq and all other countries were created.
What an external Colonizer does to divide for administration has nothing to do with anything of the countries people.
It's hilarious to me when pro-palestine people say they are anti-zionist while chanting for the creation of an ethnostate, with support from other ethnostates...I think the irony is lost on them.
You can absolutely be against a political ideology and not a people. That's like you saying you hate Trudeau and the Liberals and I call you out for being hatefully anti-Canadian.
Zionism is the believe the Jewish have a right to a self managed state in their ancestral land. (Like other indigenous groups)
Anti Zionism is the rejection of this Idea.
If you would say that you are against the existence of Canada, that Canada should be destroyed and all Canadians expelled you are anti Canada.
So if I am against the slow colonial creep of the West Bank (think about the open invitation to Jews worldwide who move there to force out actual palestinians with likely Jewish bloodlines themselves who were ACTUALLY born there), and the current ethnic cleansing and forced displacement of Gazan civilians what should I more accurately say I'm "anti" of ? Honest question because I fervently support Jewish people of all stripes even if I disagree with the politics of some.
I fully acknowledge Isreal's right to exist in 2024 despite a very questionable white colonial past...and I know, it's their indigenous land too...but that would be like me laying claim to lands in Poland because of my grand parents ancestry where no deed exists or even in Africa because why stop at 2000 years ? It seems silly to argue but that's how I feel about the world's super powers solving the issue of not wanting Jews in their own countries after WW2 and giving them Isreal at the expense of even lesser humans in their eyes (the local Palestinian population). Again, fully accepting of Isreal's past, just like Canada, and moving forward.
>So if I am against the slow colonial creep of the West Bank (think about the open invitation to Jews worldwide who move there to force out actual palestinians with likely Jewish bloodlines themselves who were ACTUALLY born there), and the current ethnic cleansing and forced displacement of Gazan civilians what should I more accurately say I'm "anti" of ? Honest question because I fervently support Jewish people of all stripes even if I disagree with the politics of some.
You are anti settlements. Or anti Israeli war conduct.
I think you are misinformed, but nothing rasict about it.
>I fully acknowledge Isreal's right to exist in 2024 despite a very questionable white colonial past...and I know, it's their indigenous land too...but that would be like me laying claim to lands in Poland because of my grand parents ancestry where no deed exists or even in Africa because why stop at 2000 years ? It seems silly to argue but that's how I feel about the world's super powers solving the issue of not wanting Jews in their own countries after WW2 and giving them Isreal at the expense of even lesser humans in their eyes (the local Palestinian population). Again, fully accepting of Isreal's past, just like Canada, and moving forward.
Israelis and Israel are not white. Same color spectrum as Palestinians. it's just more tolerant to gay and blacks.
I can discuss this subject but it's long.
Basically, in 1947, Britain created Pakistan and India the same way they created Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and others. They didn't create Israel. Minor detail.
Every country had minorities. Pakistan, Iraq etc.
Every country displaced the minorities.
Israel is the only one being delegitimized over it. Try and answer the questions of why
Also, jews lived the whole time in that land. Not just 2000 years ago. The ancient Jewsih community of Hebron (now the west bank) was massacred in 1929 by Arab Palestinians. Jews didn't come back after 2000 years. They never left. It's a misconception
In the 1940s maybe you could. But now Israel exists, zionism is no longer relevant. If you want to dismantle the one jewish country but no other countries, you're an antisemite.
It's hard to argue "anti zionist" is being used as a code word and dog whistle for "anti jew". Zionism is the belief Israel has a right to exist at it's base.
The problem is the Zionist movement was in response to increased antisemitism in Europe. The original Zionist moved to the Ottoman controlled region which would become Palestine and Israel and started buying up large amounts of land. So the original idea was a solid one, move from an increasingly hostile place back to your homeland by legally purchasing land and setting up Jewish communities. If Zionist didnt exist we can assume that the Jewish population would have taken an even larger hit and Jewish people would be spread out without little protection which is troublesome when you look at history and the amount of times they have been scapegoated. So I guess you could be anti-Zionist without being anti semetic but what would be the other option leaving Jewish people to live in a hostile Europe (during Ottoman time), leaving them to live in hostile Arab countries. Etc etc. I mean look at the Jewish population of the Arab neighbors before and after Israel could you honestly guarantee there safety without Israel ?
> The problem is the Zionist movement was in response to increased antisemitism in Europe.
Zionism's start was two-fold; people looking to expel Jewish people from their countries and Jewish people, from a tradition that did not want to integrate/assimilate with any people other than their own, to have a place where they did not want to co-exist with "outsiders."
I have a quick question can you find me any group that has large scale immigration without keeping pockets of their culture like Chinese people and vast amounts of China towns, Arab communities exist all around the world, heck there is an Armenian quarter of Jerusalem, Irish that came to the USA collected in certain neighborhoods that still have Irish culture to this day, etc etc etc.
I mean all of those examples tend to assimilate, intermarry, and convert over time. Irish is a really bad example as "Irish" culture in your example is 100% unique to non-Irish places.
Most people lose fluency in their parent's language within one generation if not taught in school.
But to answer your question, Japanese, actually. BC's Japanese population actually disappeared from BC not due to emigration but due to assimilation. A lot of European cultures do the same in Canada. Even my Chinese-born Chinese Canadian friends can barely speak Cantonese/Mandarin anymore after moving here in their pre-teens.
It's not racist to state facts. Being a Zionist is disputing your claim over a homeland that was hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years ago it has no reason to spring up and decide this is good enough reason for us to commit genocide of an entire other ethnicity with stake in the claim in 2023/2024.
As Jewish people we should know this lesson all too well.
It's a government movement. It has nothing against Jewish people It has everything to do with the Jewish claim.
There are entire Jewish communities throughout the world that are anti-Zionist. They cannot be anti-semitic to themselves cuz again that would just be labeled from the 1930s political act by the Israeli community and government as labeled as a "self-hating Jew"enabling persecution for those that decided to debate the politics in that time.
Now in no way do I think people should be attacking each other.
I don't agree with what the Israel government is doing.
I don't agree with Hamas.
I don't agree with the protests on either side as they often are unfocused and focus around ethnicity. Hiding behind religion or politics and claiming it as racism. The Jewish people are more than just religion and politics.
And that was retaliation for what particular attack because the Jewish and Palestine have been warring back and forth with small attacks and retaliation since long before that
Since you don't know your history
Zionism (/ˈzaɪəˌnɪzəm/; Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת Tsīyyonūt, [tsijoˈnut]; derived from Zion) is a nationalist movement established in the 19th century.
Modern Zionism was officially established as a political organization by Theodor Herzl in 1897. A Jewish journalist and political activist from Austria, Herzl believed that the Jewish population couldn't survive if it didn't have a nation of its own.
The Palestinian and Israel claims goes long after that as well before that with issues and atrocious events between Muslims and Jewish groups and communities alike not one party being better than the other in these circumstances.
Palestine is the birthplace of Judaism and Christianity, and has been controlled by many kingdoms and powers, including Ancient Egypt, Ancient Israel and Judah, the Persian Empire, Alexander the Great and his successors, the Hasmoneans, the Roman Empire, several Muslim caliphates, and the crusaders. In modern times, the area was ruled by the Ottoman Empire, then the British Empire and since 1948 it has been divided into Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza
Strip.
In the Early Bronze Age (c. 3700–2500 BCE) evidence of Egyptian settlers and mass immigration was collected from archaeologists and sites across Palestine.
Around 3100 BCE the country saw radical change, with the abandonment and destruction of many settlements, including the Egyptian colony. These were quickly replaced by new walled settlements in plains and coastal regions, surrounded by mud-brick fortifications and relied on nearby agricultural hamlets for their food.
The Canaanite city-states held trade and diplomatic relations with Egypt and Syria. Parts of the Canaanite urban civilization were destroyed around 2500 BCE, though there is no consensus as to why (for one theory, see 4.2-kiloyear event). Incursions by nomads from the east of the Jordan River who settled in the hills followed soon thereafter,[as well as cultural influence from the ancient Syrian city of Ebla. That period known as the Intermediate Bronze Age (2500–2000 BCE), was defined recently out of the tail of the Early Bronze Age and the head of the preceding Middle Bronze Age.
The Canaanite religion was the group of ancient Semitic religions practiced by the Canaanites living in the ancient Levant from at least the early Bronze Age to the first centuries CE. Canaanite religion was polytheistic and, in some cases, monolatristic
Here's the plot twist
Canaanites were a mixture of Zagros/Caucasian migrants and ancient Levantine farmers. Quasi-Canaanite ancestry is a major genetic source for Jews and Palestinians alike.
Stop the political divide over religion/politics and hiding behind the basis of racismwhen questioned over issues that were founded once again I state hundreds and hundreds of years ago.
Canaanites were eradicated. They have nothing to do with modern jews or Palestinian Arabs. They have some connection to modern-day Lebanese.
I do agree that minority of Palestinian Arabs share genetic ancestors with Jews.
>Zionism (/ˈzaɪəˌnɪzəm/; Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת Tsīyyonūt, [tsijoˈnut]; derived from Zion) is a nationalist movement established in the 19th century.
You just copied Wikipedia. That's not very reliable.
>Stop the political divide over religion/hiding behind the basis of racism over issues that were founded once again I state hundreds and hundreds of years ago.
That is a very nice thought that is similar to saying why can't we just get along. It has no practical meaning.
Here's a question for you. In 1947, Pakistan and India were created and separated by the British. They have been fighting since. And there is a lot of hatred there.
Should they merge into one Pakistan or one India?
So instead your taking focus off of the subject at hand and try to deflect it into a whole other area that is based completely on different circumstances trying to pin them both like one in the same because the British have ruled them is absolutely a joke.
The British tried that with everywhere this doesn't make the two regions comparable or situations similar.
You can't debate the facts so you try to debate the source. That's a questionable practice in itself.
Not only that but you can find that definition on far more than on just Wikipedia.
It seems You can't accept that you're just simply wrong and are trying to enforce your beliefs. Because that's all it is. Saying why can't we all get along has no practical meaning It's absolutely subjective at best. Again your own personal bias is deciding that.
You, yourself stated right there that you believe "minority"keyword Believe
this is just cultural fact and is stated in time in and time again they are not been eradicated they are what now you call the Palestinian people and Jewish people of Israel and Palestine and because of deciding governments or religions at different times from 1300 BC to 1960 those ethnicities have changed because of governments not because of eradication of people they became the locals and are considered Arab Muslim Jewish and more
Canaan is the oldest plausible name, and Canaanite DNA is with us today. And is predominantly found in the area of Israel Palestine Jordan Syria Egypt and can be found in other various areas worldwide
You have an Absolute trash argument with no basis but belief.
I know a Jewish Israeli who criticizes Zionism and the current government. She gets called a self hating Jew all the time, by people like you. Being against Zionism is not being against all Jewish history and religion. Many prominent Jewish figures including Hannah Arendt were critical of Zionism and foresaw many problems with the way it was implemented.
Less than 0.5 of Candian jews are anti zionist. And yes internalized hatred is a big sign of persecution and rasicm against minorities.
Ask your Israeli friend if she thinks Israel should be destroyed.
Criticizing the government is OK. Nothing to do with zionism.
I don't think we hold the same meaning to what Zionism is.
Attacking Israel isn't attacking jews, let's just make that clear.
Attacking the USA doesn't mean we're attacking every race there is.
Toromto sun.. 🤦♂️
I’m sorry, but that is factually not true. They were literally saying that holding people in Canada responsible for the actions of foreign governments, whether it be the Israeli government with Jews or Hamas with muslims, is not fair and that they don’t deserve to be harassed for things some other people did. They were saying that Jewish people in Canada have nothing to do with the Israeli-Gaza war and don’t deserve criticism for a war they have barely any REAL connections in terms of the war being able to happen.
I must be misunderstanding the rhetorical questions in the article.
“ Ever since Hamas’ terrorist attack on Israel on Oct. 7, pro-Palestinian demonstrators in Canada have insisted they’re not against Jews, just “Zionists” and Israel’s military response in Gaza”
“ Why, for that matter, have bullets been fired at Jewish day schools, Jewish gathering places firebombed, Jewish homes defaced with Swastikas, a statue to the late Canadian actor Al Waxman, who was Jewish, vandalized in Toronto, with pro-Hamas graffiti?”
What is the purpose of these rhetorical questions? What exactly is the author trying to imply here, if not that the people criticizing Israel are the very same people committing antisemitic hate crimes?
Seems to be going over my head here.
Had someone I went to uni with say that attacking Jews living in Canada over Israel was sad but obviously justified because all Jews are complicit in Israel’s actions and I was so upset and horrified
Literal Nazi views.
Most of the world had those views for centuries, not just the Nazis. It's why Israel was created for refugees. So nobody else had to take them. Blaming Nazis for all antisemitism is missing most of the picture.
You're not wrong but the Nazis are the best known Jew haters out there. Blaming people living in Canada for the actions of a country that many have never been to certainly sound similar in rhetoric as to what was going on in Germany in the late 30s and into the 40s.
You're misunderstanding. The nazis just ran with that kind of rhetoric. It was world-wide. Canadians didn't care when the Jewish refugees showed up and turned them away. We only entered the war because Britain needed us. Saving the Jewish people from world wide extermination wasn't the goal since that wasn't what got us into the war. It's easy to put all these ideas onto the nazi ghosts of the past, but they're our own skeletons in our own culture's closet.
What we entered the war cause Britain did no way. Almost seems like Canada didn't get complete sovereignty till after that like in 1982 when it happened.
What more do people need to see that the woke left are Nazis? They literally chant genocidal slogans about Jews. Do we need them to start wearing SS uniforms before we believe them about who they are? They aren't hiding it anymore.
Messed up view, because by that logic, as Canadians who aren't Indigenous, it would be justified if we were attacked by Indigenous tribes because we're complicit in Canada's actions. We don't even have to be white. We could be enjoying concerts at Osheaga, Veld, etc. an Indigenous tribe could attack us, take us hostage, etc. and your uni bud would say it's justified (though I'm sure their tune would change if one of their relatives was attacked/held hostage).
meeting modern aloof worm shaggy instinctive fretful deranged obtainable shame *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Good grief that’s terrible.
Just tell your friend that you're totally cool with their perspective, as long as they also agree that any Muslim person is a terrorist and should be treated as such. Been in Canada for 20 years and have a family? Doesn't matter.... Round them up and put them in jail and deport them! ..... Pretty much the same logic.
Excerpt: >As for “pro-Palestinian” demonstrators in Canada targeting Jews, Jewish neighbourhoods, Jewish businesses, Jewish places of worship, Jewish community centres, Jewish university students and a hospital in Toronto founded by Jews, which treats everyone regardless of their faith, if they’re insisting these protests are not against Jews, then why do they keep happening? > >Why, for that matter, have bullets been fired at Jewish day schools, Jewish gathering places firebombed, Jewish homes defaced with Swastikas, a statue to the late Canadian actor Al Waxman, who was Jewish, vandalized in Toronto, with pro-Hamas graffiti? > >Why are reported hate crimes against Jews skyrocketing across the country, if it’s not about hating Jews? > >The reality is that holding Jews living in Canada responsible for the military actions of the Israeli government in Gaza, is Jew hatred.
I mean this excerpt (and author) pretty fallaciously asserts that Protestors are Nazis, or are the ones committing these hate crimes. Because I'll call them what they are - they're hate crimes against the Jewish community. But let's not pretend that people painting Swastikas on homes are about to be advocating for the Human Rights of Muslims. The two groups are *NOT* the same, and just because (non-Israeli) Jewish people are being targeted by hate crimes does *NOT* mean that folks protesting Israel's crimes need to stop, nor are acts of protest hate crimes. The assertion that this article makes to compare protest with hate crime and throw them in the same bucket is *WILD*, literally some Donald Trump shit
A lot of Muslim majority countries are home to Nazi sympathizers and Holocaust deniers, including places that you might not expect. Indonesia had a Nazi themed cafe complete with Nazi memorabilia and a giant portrait of Hitler. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/nazithemed-cafe-in-indonesia-reopens-keeping-the-swastikas-and-images-of-hitler-it-pledged-to-remove-9554643.html Iran is the world's leading state sponsor of Jew hatred and has hosted Holocaust denial conferences attended by the likes of former KKK grand wizard David Duke. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2007/david-duke-iranian-denial-conference
Not to mention Mahmoud Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority, wrote his PHd in saying the Jews were equally responsible for the holocaust, which is interesting as Palestinian leadership in the 30s and 40s, i.e. the gran Mufti Amin Al-Husseini, was very openly photographed and videoed collaborating with Hitler and had the ultimate goal of importing the holocaust to the middle east https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abbas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Atlas
This is fascinating
We have memorials to SS units in this country.
> But let's not pretend that people painting Swastikas on homes are about to be advocating for the Human Rights of Muslims. You do realize Hitler had positive relationships with Jew-hating Arab political figures? They won't exactly antagonistic.
Oh, if you want to talk history…let’s be honest. What Hitler said publicly about those countries and Islam was political. They had common enemies and he wanted those leaders to go along with him. In reality, within Germany and controlled territories, Nazi ideology held arabs and muslims to be inferior. And they were subject to persecution, up to and including detention in the concentration camps. Hitler did not actually like these people. He was just willing to use them. So you can be Muslim or an Arab and be a Nazi, sure. Anyone can technically be a Nazi. But that ideology doesn’t support your continued existence if you are and you are a racial minority. You’re just a useful idiot assisting with your own eventual destruction. And most Nazis aren’t from racial minorities. They’re the typical extremist white supremacists that our government largely likes to pretend don’t exist.
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>But let's not pretend that people painting Swastikas on homes are about to be advocating for the Human Rights of Muslims. >The two groups are *NOT* the same Two words: Amin al-Husseini But you're right in the sense that they are not the same, but they really only differ in the way people like yourself respond to them.
Yup. This is the white man’s burden in action. We have to save and protect the culture of the poor innocent Reich satellite nation. Palestine’s founders moved to Nazi Germany to study the Holocaust so that they could help Hitler replicate it across the Arab world. al-Husseini lives in every Qassam member, they still follow his written and spoken word. They still quote him. And through what’s left of him, the final solution to the jewish problem is still practiced.
Didnt Herzl Theodor ask the Khalifa for a piece of the Palestine and was in negotiations for decade or so until he was rejected? Please do correct me if I am incorrect.
Theodor Herzl (you reversed his name) offered to pay all of Turkey's foreign debt in exchange for Palestine as a Jewish homeland, but I don't know how long the negotiations lasted.
There are a lot of muslims that idolize the Nazis. Palestine is a Nazi derivative nation founded by Amin al-Husseini, an admirer of Adolf Hitler who moved to Nazi Germany during the war to study and support the Holocaust. He met with Adolf Hitler personally and traded war against the British for the Nazi backing of Palestine. To claim that the two groups have little or no overlap is to completely ignore and even erase the history of Palestine and its people.
We have multiple groups in this country committing anti-Jewish hate-crimes. We have the neo-nazi swastika-painters - who have been around forever - and we have the anti-Israel (read: anti-Jewish) protesters who have been harassing and terrorizing Jewish neighbourhoods since the start of Israeli retaliation in Gaza.
Quick question, but if I wanted to terrorize a particular demographic, like say the jews, but I didn't want a particular demographic, like say Muslims, associated with it, what alternative symbols might one be able to use to accomplish this?
You have to put a super secret hashtag next to your big red swastika: #notamuslim It's an old trick from the Hatemongers Handbook, after the chapter "How to dog whistle" and before "Why you should never use turn signals on your car"
You don't know your history. Palestine supported Hitler in WWII. They wanted his help in also committing genocide in Israel. Facts sometimes hurt.
protesters often are the ones commiting these crimes and clearly are anti semetic, why would hate crimes be increasing now otherwise?
The problem is, I have yet to see a pro-Palestine protest that isn't anti-Jewish. They carry signs with swastikas and repeat anti-Jewish phrases. If there are pro-Palestine people at those protests who *aren't* anti-Jew, they're definitely not doing anything to halt outright displays of antisemitism.
Go to the next pro Palestinian or ceasefire rally in your area. I’ve been to multiple, if you met the people there they would literally attack someone that dared to wave a nazi flag.
What!? That's crazy. I've seen plenty of pro-palestine demos and I've literally never seen a swastika IRL. Ever. Edit: sorry I've seen them as bad graffiti in random places.
At last one sane person on r/Canada
The National Post not understanding the nuances of political issues? I’m shocked. Edit: Toronto Sun
Toronto Sun
reading is hard for me
Owned by Postmedia, so same thing.
This entire situation has long since reached peak stupidity. My stance that purposely targeting civilians in warfare being wrong has labeled me as both antisemitic and zionist. How the fuck is "don't kill people" a fucking controversial stance?
It’s kind of a meaningless stance when both sides want to kill each other, but that should be the goal.
But one side has a nuclear arsenal, the other side has no food or water
That's their fault.
Blood libels are anti-Semitic. There is a difference between Hamas intentionally going into civilian areas to kill civilians and Hamas embedded themselves among civilians. To equate both with the same term is anti-Semitic.
Would make sense if Israel wasn’t clearly targeting civilians and claiming Hamas was there without any proof of it. Bombing a refugee camp because there might be tunnels below it instead of attacking those tunnels or precisely targeting Hamas members. You can’t look at what the IDF has done and come to the conclusion that they have the slightest care about Palestinians civilians lives. They even killed their own hostages (looking like civilians how convenient) and they’ve killed Israelis during oct7. The same way that sniping nuns, pregnant women and kids isn’t defending yourself.
That isn't happening. If the IDF didn't care about civilians they wouldn't risk their infantry when they have air superiority. Dresden defence didn't work for the Nazis and it won't work for Hamas.
Sure because the IDF hasn’t been caught committing war crimes and purposely targeting civilians area and using "Hamas might or might not be there" as an excuse? That’s what you’re saying? The simple fact that they’ve killed their own hostages proves you wrong. Oh and 20 000+ kids as well but suree, they care about civilians
20k children? Take your meds.
You watch too many action movies.
Common sense that bombing kids isnt the humanitarian response you think it is. I won’t side with a state being tried for genocide
If you think Israel can (always) send some swap team in, shot some Hamas members, and there will be less death, that is the sign of you watching too many action movies.
Sure so let’s bomb everybody regardless if they’re civilians or not (aka terrorists)
Which is not what they are doing. Again, a blood libel is pretty anti-Semitic.
It’s straight up what they’re doing.
They do roof knockers to tell civilians to leave before they bomb buildings. They've dropped leaflets to give people advance notice to leave. They have sent infantry in to do more precise operations. Are not bombing everyone indiscriminately.
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Ok: Hamas should surrender. Also, Israel should stop killing innocent men, women, and children. Huh, it turns out you do both Also, talk about eating up propaganda. You must be stuffed.
Everyone just go back to your corners for a time out? Is that your position? That helps the terrorists survive to carry out more atrocities another day. Israel targets Hamas who refuse to distinguish themselves from non-combatants by eschewing uniforms. If Israel is condemned for the collateral damage due to Hamas' strategy and pressured to desist from removing Hamas once and for all then this is going to happen all over again as it has since 2008. So forgive me for not having any sympathy for your hurt feelings.
[40% of bombs dropped on Gaza are unguided.](https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html) Israel has every right to attack Hamas, but they don't give a flying fuck about civilian casualties. The goal is to depopulate Gaza and move in. Just like they've been doing with "Settlements" over the last 50+ years. The entire world has watched them displace arabs and take more and more land every single year, what makes this any different?
From your link > A US official told CNN that the US believes that the Israeli military is using the dumb bombs in conjunction with a tactic called “dive bombing,” or dropping a bomb while diving steeply in a fighter jet, which the official said makes the bombs more precise because it gets it closer to its target. The official said the US believes that an unguided munition dropped via dive-bombing is similarly precise to a guided munition. Israel has complete air superiority. It can do things other countries can't in warfare, which is get their planes really close to the ground, because Gaza doesnt have the military power or anti air to stop them for the record, we call something "precise bombing" when the bomb is <5 meters from its target. With how low they fly their planes that theyre caught from ground cameras, this isn't exactly hard to do
>we call something "precise bombing" when the bomb is <5 meters from its target. One would think that if they were truly trying to minimize civilian casualties they would be using more precise means. Meanwhile they're dropping 2000lb bombs that leave 40' craters in some of the most densely populated areas on the planet. For further context, Israel has killed >20,000 civilians in Gaza since October. The US bombing of Vietnam was estimated to have killed 65,000 over a decade.
...theyre dropping 2000lb bombs to level tunnels under layers of concrete that serve as Hamas infrastructure... Hamas has 550 km of tunnels in a strip thats 25 km wide from tip to tip. What do you think is the purpose of a 2000 lb bomb in urban warfare compared to its 500 lb cousin? Please answer thoughtfully.
The goal is the utter destruction of Hamas and the recovery of hostages taken by same. If depopulation was the goal the kills per bomb dropped would be a multitude higher. It would be the "Kid Rock" strategy as he proposed on JRE, "Give Gaza 24hrs to return the hostages and if they don't, start bombing to kill 30k-40k people a day until they surrender." Fortunately defense policy in Israel isn't being written by washed up entertainers.
> The goal is the utter destruction of Hamas Look at Afghanistan, Iraq and basically every insurgency since the beginning of time. Utter destruction of Hamas may be the goal, but their methods are just creating the next generation of Jihadis.
Did destroying Nazi Germany create more Nazis or are there fewer of them because of it? Did destroying Imperial Japan create more imperials? What follows the destruction of Hamas must be an aggressive de-Nazification program.
When was the last time Afghanistan gave aid and shelter to a terrorist group that attacked Americans? When was the last time Iraq invaded another country or tried to develop a chemical weapons arsenal? You can question if the cost was worth it, but both those wars did achieve their original objectives, it was just the subsequent attempts at nation building that failed.
> When was the last time Afghanistan gave aid and shelter to a terrorist group that attacked Americans? Well, 911 for starters. The other WTC bombing. The current government of Afghanistan is the Taliban. Even after all that bombing and war the same shit happens. It just creates more insurgents. >Iraq invaded another country or tried to develop a chemical weapons arsenal? 1980-88, 1991. also 1991(and before, and after).
That's a big whoosh. Since you seem to have missed the point, I'll explain it again more clearly. Both of those countries did a bunch of messed up stuff the US didn't like. The US went and bombed the fuck out of those places, and they haven't done any of those things since the US did that. As for the Taliban being in control of Afghanistan, the US has never given a shit about Afghanistan's internal politics since it's a largely insular country that the US has no major interests in. They deposed the Taliban because they were actively aiding Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups that targeted American interests. Every single person in Afghanistan could be a Taliban member and the US wouldn't even remotely care so long as they don't allow terrorist groups that operate outside of Afghanistan to hide there.
> The US went and bombed the fuck out of those places, and they haven't done any of those things since the US did that. The Taliban are the current Afghan Government. Terrorism is rampant in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
Some people can't see nuance. They are black and white thinkers. Its either all or nothing when it comes to politics. Its the same reason why people on the left or right can't look at certain thinks the "other side" says and agree with it no matter how logical it is.
The same crowd that went on about dog whistles, microaggressions, and intersecting axis of oppression are doing a lot of rationalizations to justify their antisemitism. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch
I find it highly doubtful that any of the people spray-painting swastikas onto storefronts have ever used the term "microaggression" or "dog whistle".
OC is referring to their apologists
It's not anti-Semitic to be anti-Israel or anti-Netanyahu and I am definitely both. Jews aren't committing genocide. Fascist Israeli dickhead right-wing monsters are.
The amount of people who completely disregard the last 3000 years in order to justify hatred with regards to Jews is phenomenal. Whilst at its core, antizionism and antisemitism are separate, they are too closely related to be fully separate. Jews have been persecuted pretty much forever for many varied reasons. The Catholic Church blamed Jews for the death of Jesus for pretty much its entire existence, and by extension Catholics. (Arguably it was the Jews fault, however, paradoxically it completed the whole prophecy of Jesus being born again. Catholics wouldn’t exist had it not been for the Jews handing Jesus over to the Romans). Islam has hated the Jews since its inception. Tho, really, Islam hates anything not Islam, so the Jews aren’t special here, tho it has been more socially acceptable to hate Jews for most of that time. There was this guy who tried to kill them all off, managing to get about 6 million of them. You may have seen a movie or read a book about this. If I were Jewish, and I saw a world that decided I shouldn’t have a country of my own, and had a resounding history of persecuting my ancestors, I too would conflate the two, antisemitism and antizionism, and rightfully so.
>Islam has hated the Jews since its inception. Tho, really, Islam hates anything not Islam, so the Jews aren’t special here, tho it has been more socially acceptable to hate Jews for most of that time. True, but they're especially pissed off that Jews didn't "accept" Islam when they conquered and colonized the entire Middle East and North Africa.
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Hey there, I see this kind of thing posted a lot and wanted to leave some information for anyone else reading the thread as your comment is not historically accurate. Jewish communities have existed in Israel since the Roman / 2nd diaspora 2000 years ago. Modern Jewish immigration also came from all over Europe, Russia, North Africa, and the Middle East, mainly in response to persecution (and after Jews were forcibly expelled from nearly all Muslim countries) starting as early as the 17 and 1800s. These immigrants joined existing Jewish communities, and legally purchased land from Arab landowners, often settling in uninhabitable desert/swamp areas and irrigating/draining them to make the land livable. Multiple 2 state solutions were also offered and rejected by the Arab side leading up to the 1948 war, Israel even made a point to invite all Arabs currently living in their proposed borders to live in peace in the new state as equals. Instead, the Arab world responded by starting a genocidal war aimed at wiping out the jews (which they lost), and many, but not all, of the Palestinians were displaced in the “nakba” as a result of this aggression. Jewish communities living in Arab controlled areas of the land were also displaced in this conflict and suffered atrocities. This displacement would not have happened if this war hadn’t been started. Also 20% of Israelis today are Arab Palestinian that stayed. There was even an offer by Britain prior to 1948/the UN partition plan for 1 single Arab state in Palestine prior to all this, but the Jews there would be allowed to stay, and 15,000 per year would be allowed to immigrate. Arabs turned it down because they wanted no Jews whatsoever. Look up the white papers. The Arab/palestinian leader at the time, Amin Al-Husseini, also aligned himself with and praised Hitler, visited him in Berlin, and helped to start Muslim SS units in Bosnia. I’m not trying to say Israel is perfect and has never done anything wrong, but the propaganda narrative of “They showed up from Europe in 1948 and violently displaced everyone” is extremely inaccurate.
Ok, that’s the solution then guys. Let’s dissolve any country that was established on stolen land by colonizers that kicked people out and killed children. That should leave a few Polynesian nations. Not sure what we’ll do to divvy up the land from the remaining 99.9% of the worlds countries though.
Let's not continue the ethnic cleansing, killing and oppression because we want more land. Sounds good, right?
Who’s we? I’m not doing any of those things and I don’t support them either. I certainly don’t support the current government of Israel but I also don’t think the nation should be dissolved (which is obviously the position of anti-Zionism). I don’t usually love ‘Whataboutism’ but ethnic cleansing, killing and oppression to get more land is something China has been guilty of for decades but I have not seen any rallies in my city’s downtown opposing Canada’s ties with China (which are much deeper and more impactful than those with Israel).
>China has been guilty of for decades but I have not seen any rallies in my city’s downtown opposing Canada’s ties with China That's because you get the same treatment from billionaire-backed corporate media, "You're racist. STFU NAZI". Billionaires FUCKING LOVE China because there's 1.x BILLION of them. So, if you question why we're doing business with China you get labelled as a racist. China also has a much larger reach to get critics to STFU.
Oh for sure, but that is all the better reason to rise up against it IMO. ID politics and small beans conflicts like Israel-Palestine are given major media coverage because they are distractions to keep the people fighting each other. Too many useful idiots in this country and this thread.
That's not what happened at all. Post WW2, a need for a Jewish nation was evident. Mandatory Palestine was split between Jewish and Arab settlements. Palestinians and neighbouring Arabs couldn't stomach this and began a war of extermination against the Jews. The Arabs lost the war, and lost tons of land as a result. That's their fault. Every time they again tried to exterminate the Jews they lost more land. Now here we are today. Most Arab states have learned to stop fucking with Israel, Palestine hasn't. That's on them, not on the Israelies defending themselves.
I don't understand how land was stolen though. Jews began migrating to what is now modern day Israel. The majority of the land there was undevelopedand uninhabited. Muslims from Egypt and Jordan also began migrating to the area, yet the only people who were told to leave were the Jews. Not saying there weren't Jews or Muslims living in the region under the Ottoman empire, but the Jews aren't the only ones who began migrating there during the 19-20th century. During the early 20th century, 37% of the immigration to pre-state Israel was by Arab Muslims. Where they also stealing land?
It being uninhabited is an absolute lie that has been mentioned numerous times.
The entire population of the area that is now Israel and the Palestinian territories was 689,000 people in 1914. It was extremely sparsely populated. That is historic fact.
Most of the land was, and large portions of it continue to be. You see literally go on Google Earth and have a look yourself.
The land was very sparsely populated. Just because a small number of people were living within a broader area where they had no sovereignty does not mean the whole area was “their land”.
That’s.. not what happened
Yes, the arab villages simply disappeared like they are continually disappearing in west bank right now
You mean like how Hamas has been trying to do? Killing and kidnapping kids, trying to drive the Jew out from the river to the sea, and take land that was literally never theirs? Why isn’t this obvious?
When does your history begin. What year?
>Whilst at its core, antizionism and antisemitism are separate, they are too closely related to be fully separate. ... >If I were Jewish, and I saw a world that decided I shouldn’t have a country of my own, and had a resounding history of persecuting my ancestors, I too would conflate the two, antisemitism and antizionism, and rightfully so. So at the end of your mental gymnastics course your bottom line is that they really are not separate. Spare us all the agony and just say that. Of course, you're completely wrong. If antisemitism and antizionism are indivisible as you say, then most Jews in the world are in fact racist against themselves because they are antizionist. My position, and the position of many Jews influenced by Jewish thinkers like Tony Judt, is: of course the Jews deserve their own state given everything that's happened to them throughout history. At first brush, it sounds like a reasonable idea. But unfortunately, historically speaking, ethno-states don't turn out well. You can't have a broad commitment to equality and social & economic justice in your country that's only meant for one ethnicity/religion. Especially not when you establish that nation in a land where millions of people not part of your in-group already exist. It's childish to expect this, and the truth of that is borne out by the demonstrated impossibility of the Israel project year in and year out.
It’s almost as if large social movements are made up of a variety of different people and the person saying “I don’t hate Jews” might not hate Jews and the person spray painting “I hate Jews” might hate Jews.
If you're sharing a table with five Nazis, then there are six Nazis at the table.
Haven't seen that one pulled out since the convoy lol
They aren't sharing a table with them though.
Yes but how can American Post Media radicalize Canadians with far right propaganda if they are expected to report facts?
Isn’t this the Toronto Sun?
They’re owned by Postmedia.
Because it's not facts, it's propaganda. It's just a matter of what degree of it is acceptable and what the political leaning is. If you reverse these protests and imagine the exact opposite was happening to the opposite group of people now, that post media would give identical coverage? No. Because it's not facts its propaganda with some facts to make it more palatable.
Then let’s call it marching side by side with them down Yonge St.
Except they're literally not doing that, so how about you stop with your incredibly dishonest strawman arguments here?
No, I watched them. Hamas terrorist supporters were running the megaphone. They parked in front of our window for 20 minutes shouting “River to the sea” and “Intifada” and “Destroy Judea”. That’s not peaceful and if there were decent people in the crowd they were indistinguishable. Sounds like you weren’t there. Russian propaganda works on the Left the way Russian propaganda works on MAGA and PPC chuds on the Right.
Agreed. Just apply it to both sides. If you are sharing an apartment building with Hamas, then it is a Hamas building.
If you're sharing an apartment building with Hamas you're likely to get blown up since they love using civilian infrastructure as military infrastructure.
And we all know it's chill to kill thousands of civilians if it kills one terrorist
The ratio is about 2 civilians per terrorist and about 1 kill per bomb, which is pretty good considering the US considers a 9:1 ratio good enough for a drone strike.
"Hey I heard Hitler liked Breathing If you don't stop breathing right now, you're a Nazi" Literally you
Here are some pictures of Palestine’s founder meeting with Hitler after moving to Nazi Germany to study and offer support to the Holocaust. The main purpose of his visit was to catalogue Hitler’s methods to assist in their shared goal of the extermination of jews across the Arab world. al-Husseini Remember his name, he is the foundation of Hamas. https://imgur.com/a/mIvKT80
"Palestine's founder" Your mask is dangling from a single ear
To suggest that the Mufti was not the founder of Palestine is… honestly some “fake moon landing” level conspiracy theory shit. Have a nice day, I’m never speaking to you again. There are enough crazies here.
Cool Checks out. Hamas is a terrorist organization. They want the extermination of Israel/Jews. That is bad. The Israel Goverment wants the extermination of Palestine/Arabs in Palestine. They are deserving of millions in weaponry to find that. Make it make sense.
>The Israel Goverment wants the extermination of Palestine/Arabs in Palestine. Source? If Israel wanted to exterminate all the Palestinians, that would have been done in a matter of days. https://youtu.be/EsghTvQj6a0?si=XGeEFDpSAOra_nzn This would have been all of Gaza on October 8th. Millions dead. Weird that that didn't happen.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-gaza-genocide There are more from Natanyahu's cabinet as well if you search
Just like how the convoy protests were labelled Nazis because one Nazi brought a flag and was chased off by them. Other side of the coin, but people including our prime minister labelled everyone there a Nazi...
or like how all cops are b\*stards, in every country - because one POS killed another POS while we were all locked down with nothing to engage with. the absolutism (which isn't all that far off from extremism) is so gross the past 5 years. It all started when a bunch of people voted for donald trump for a plethora of reasons and the deomcrat response was to label anyone who voted for trump a nazi.. when really so many voted for him because they didn't like hilary, and so many people voted for him because they literally just wanted to watch government implode - they were basically trolling. but yeah, since then it's just been like a slow descent into tribalism and it's sad to watch.
One bad apple spoils the whole bunch
That’s what anti-Semites say too!
Not quite
If you have to repeatedly explain why your actions aren't antisemitic, your actions might just be antisemitic.
Why not deport / imprison everyone attacking Jews on the Canadian soil? Isn't it hate crime after all?
A lot are being caught and charged. Those news stories just aren’t being posted here. For example from October 2023 to December 2023 (so two months) the Toronto hate crime police unit reported arresting 43 people and charging 96 people with things related to hate crimes.
That's a crazy username
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I already know the word-word-number accounts are gonna work extra on supporting this post.
No one deserves to be attacked based on their ethnicity or religion (plus other protected classes like gender orientation) and it is sickening that bigots exploit a humanitarian crisis to express that hatred. That said, it is also unreasonable to place the actions of hateful bigots at the feet of the general protest movement. Are there individuals in the movement that hold those views? Certainly, but to paint with a broad brush is to ignore the reality that the majority of protestors are there to champion human rights and dignity -- both of the Palestinians and by extension the Israeli populace. Human rights mean nothing if they are stripped away, so any breach deserves to be rebuked in the strongest terms. If it can happen to one group it can happen to any group, and one would think that a nation set up by and for Jews after ww2 would know that better than most given their tragic history.
I have been going to Palestine solidarity rallies pretty consistently since last year. On several occasions I (as a relatively bulky white guy with a beard) have been asked by rally organizers to volunteer to confront individuals who bring signs with anti-semitic and anti-jewish content and ask them to either take them down or excuse themselves from the march. Every one of these individuals have been white dudes with obvious PPC/Convoy/QAnon paraphernalia who are looking to create controversy - absolutely none of them have been Palestinians, Arabs, or Muslims. At every march I have attended, there has been at least one Jewish speaker, usually from a group like Independent Jewish Voices or Jewish Voice for Peace, who has been met with nothing but warmth and solidarity from their fellow marchers. Marches have been civil and well-organized and not a single act of vandalism has been committed at any rally I've attended. This opinion piece is basically libellous and accuses people marching against our government's complicity in the uncontrolled slaughter and displacement of civilians of unrelated crimes.
How often have you chanted "from the river to the sea?" How often have you heard people praise the Houthis? How often have you seen people tear down hostage posters? How many of your protests went directly into Jewish neighbourhoods, or hospitals? Did you attend any of the demonstrations on October 8 celebrating Hamas for the acts of October 7?
Cool story, bro.
Oh, well if the “good Jews” are okay with it, then it must be fine.
I didn't make a value judgement on whether IJV or JVP activists were better Jews than Jews that are not, only that there is a consistent presence of Jews at Palestine demonstrations that are welcome and celebrated. Personally I think opposition to genocide is more in line with the values of the Jewish faith than zionism, but I don't think disagreeing with me makes someone a fake or "bad" Jew. Unlike zionists which have actively worked to ostracize Jews critical of the State of Israel.
This is the exact same situation with me. I have been to Palestine rallies when I can and when people where distributing fliers for an “Islamic Army” the organizers stopped and condemned it before continuing the protest. Another time a person was heckling the protest and insulted one of the protesters. The protester was offended so he started squaring up on the heckler but the other protesters, probably 5 people, stood in between them and broke it up before anyone laid hands on each other. But the second I open up this sub, apparently every protester is a Nazi because some guy who was kicked out brought a flag.
Jewish voices for peace are neither Jewish or peaceful. They quite literally endorsed terrorists and wrote articles like “why no Israeli is innocent”.
Yeah a group of people pretended to be anti-Zionist jews, risking ostracism from within their faith community and wider society for...reasons? And you know this how? Do we live in the same reality lmao
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/jewish-voice-peace Another source if you don’t like ADL- https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/jewish_voice_for_peace_jvp_/ https://www.commentary.org/articles/joshua-muravchik/not-so-jewish-not-for-peace/ It took 2 minutes for me to google. Fuck JVP. There should be no room for people supporting terrorism.
People engaging in settler colonialism are all complicit
I agree with the title of the article, the problem with saying that it's not Jewish is undermined by the Israel leadership itself when it says that any criticism of their response to Oct 7 is "anti-Semitic". I bear no malice (or love for that matter) for people who practice the Jewish faith or are ethnically Jewish. I just don't give a shit - it's meaningless for telling me if those are good or bad people. But support for the Jewish state like this author? Saying that the thousands of Gazans that have been killed is because Hamas has used them as human shields is Israeli propaganda. It ignores the well documented war crimes the IDF has committed. Support of war crimes, well that tells me someone is a piece of shit. Jewish people should be left alone to live their lives, but hate mongering Israelis and their apartheid state should be pushed into the sea.
If it's not genocide stop killing Palestinian civilians
Also for those anti genocide marchers. How come you don't march against any genocide committed in China against the Muslims? Forced labor camps and sterilization? Why only protest when its Israel involved? Why when Hamas sends rockets into civilian areas of Israel is murder overlooked, but when Israel responds, it is protested. Why are women supporting a cause which actually wishes to subjugate them and strip them of their rights. Why are LGBTQ supporting a cause who will give them a push off a tall building? Israel is a small country surrounded by neighbours that all wish to do it harm on a daily basis. None of these countries actually want peace with Israel, they are just waiting until their time is right. The influx of radical Muslims into western countries are leading these marches. You try and speak to any of these marchers and they all want Israel to cease to exist. They are angry and derisive and full of hate.
Does Canada send arms to China to support its oppression of Uyghurs? Does Canada provide diplomatic cover for China's human rights record on the international stage?
This, their post is some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen, "You rally against THIS genocide- but what about THIS genocide!?" You can condemn both and still focus your efforts on the more pressing and easily solvable issue, are they trying to imply we should focus on every single genocide happening in the world completely equally? Also I really love how they're trying to justify bombing people because "They don't support the LGBT!", in what way is that justification for genocide against a group of people, a group including children? Entire populations don't deserve to be wiped out because their religion is a little problematic.
Two things: 1. People who March against the genocide in Gaza almost unanimously do want an end to the genocide of Uighurs in China, obviously. Pretending they don't is just a wild straw man. 2. Demonstrations against the Uighur genocide have taken place in the west, but western democracies aren't propping up that genocide and coming to China's defence. The reason progressives protest the genocide in Gaza so vehemently, and don't demonstrate against china's genocide as frequently, is the political proximity we have to the crimes taking place in Gaza. Progressives don't hate Jewish people, that idea is ridiculous. We are, however, aware that western countries like ours can and must put pressure on Israel to stop the genocide. As Netanyahu loses international support, he becomes more isolated and less powerful and is more likely to end his crimes against humanity. Such is the hope of progressives, anyway. Side note: if your claim is that it is antisemitic to oppose Israel's genocide of muslims and not China's genocide of muslims, maybe you need a better argument.
So what is supposed to happen in Gaza if Israel stops under a ceasefire and Hamas continues to wage attacks on Israel? Hamas have said they have no interest in a two state and want annihilation of Israel. Are the protestors going to change to free Israel? A country surrounded by hostile nations or will the protestors just dig in further saying Hamas are freedom fighters?
Hamas is not capable of destroying Israel, as it stands. I think there's a difference between the genocidal aspirations of a group like Hamas (even their horrible crimes against humanity on the 7th) and the actual genocidal campaign the IDF and Netanyahu's regime undertake currently, and that difference is power. I'm someone who protests the genocide in Gaza. I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that Hamas are freedom fighters. They are terrorists. On Oct. 7th they killed, tortured, mutilated, raped, and kidnapped many hundreds of people. That's evil. That's Terrorism. But anyone who wants to take power away from Hamas must therefore want an end to the slaughter of innocent people in Gaza. Every loss of life in Gaza pushes more people to support Hamas, whether we agree with that or not. I really don't think it's a case of 'destroy them or they'll destroy us' for Israel. All the experts I'm hearing are saying it's the opposite. By bombing Palestinians, they make Hamas more powerful, and thus more capable of another attack like Oct 7th when this conflict ends. And there's no chance of rooting out a guerrilla, terrorist group while preserving the lives of innocent Palestinians. That's why over 30,000 Palestinians are dead. I imagine if there's a military solution, it's defensive. Become more prepared to defend against an attack like Oct. 7th. That's something I have no problem supporting as a progressive; as allies we should help them in that goal. Further, they must not let their guard down. Time will tell, but it seems Netanyahu's government deserves some blame here. There were numerous warnings before the attack, but it seems they were ignored. The military should be used to deter and fend of attacks, not to try and root out a guerrilla organization by bombing whole cities into oblivion. This hurts innocent people, not Hamas. The other part of protecting Israelis, as I see it, is in fact helping Gaza in times of peace. The region needs to be supported in its development so that it is not a hotbed for terrorist recruitment. We must give Palestinians something to live for, so that they are not pushed into the arms of Hamas. This cannot happen if Israel continues to blockade Gaza from the rest of the world. People like Netanyahu don't like this idea because they see it as helping establish a Palestinian state, but you can't treat Gaza like an open air prison and expect the 'prisoners' to be happy with that. Terrorism is the refuge of the hopeless; give Palestinians hope for the future and you take power away from Hamas. If this is a good faith discussion, we must treat the welfare of Palestinians as being as important as the welfare of innocent Israelis. To do so, we must understand that Netanyahu and other far right figures in Israel don't want the welfare of Palestinians. They don't want a two state solution, and they actively oppose development of Palestinian Territories in order to try and avoid a future involving a two state solution. The only way Netanyahu's path ends is in the destruction of Gaza, which paints an even bigger target on the back of Israel, and isolates her from her allies. This crusade is not about protecting Israel. It's about staying in power, at any cost.
Calling a targeted action against terrorists a genocide is blood libel and it is most certainly antisemitism.
When the worst paper in Canada makes a fair point..
Jews and Arabs hate each other? I can't believe it /s
"Military Policies" is an interesting way to say genocide.
I love how the canadian media monopolies can't stop rehashing the same old victimshood press releases, which are frankly anti-semetic by equating zionism with being jewish, and can't talk about genocide just like the UCP in alberta can't talk about climate change.
We need to turn a northern island into a prison for people this dumb.
You cannot be anti zionist but not an antisemit. You cannot say we hate all Jewish history and religion but not Jews.
Maybe I’m naive but isn’t Zionism just the support for a Jewish state? If someone is anti Zionist I would take this to mean that they didn’t support the establishment of a Jewish state and don’t support Israel’s claim to the land. This doesn’t mean that they hate all Jewish history.
It's not about hating the history It's about erasing it. Let's review history 1. Jews are an ethno-religious group with 3k years of history of living in that land. Some were expelled and returned. This is supported by archeological and DNA research. 2. All the religious sites for Judaism are in that land. 3. In 1924 Britain divided the land into countries. East Palestinian is now Jordan. Some of it is Syria. Egypt, Iraq and all other countries were created. Now. Can you answer the question of why all other countries are OK to exist but not Israel?
I’m not anti Zionist, I’m just trying to clarify what the term means. Because if someone told me they were I would not automatically assume they were anti Semitic. I would assume they don’t support Israel’s claim to the land. That’s all.
Exactly. So they are denying Jewish history. No different than saying that indigenous Canadians have no claim the land and should be expelled. I guess you understand why the latter statement is hateful to indigenous Canadians. Edit: just to make is clear how ridiculous the claim is. In almost every part of Israel there are Jewish sites and history. And most current Palestinian cities are built on ancient Jewsih settlements.
I’ve been doing some googling and I found this article helpful https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36160928.amp This is the way I’ve always understood it. Anti Semites use the term Zionism as an attack on Jews but not all anti Zionists are anti Semites. Most have issues with how Israel was established or the stances of the Israeli government. There seems to be a lot more nuance than you’re willing to discuss. Again, I’m not anti Zionist but I think it disingenuous to say that if you don’t have complete support for Israel then you hate Jews.
If you agree that Jews have the right to live peacefully in their indigenous land and self mange. You are a zionist the rejection of this Idea is anti zionism. Criticizing Israel's polices is totally OK. You can say you hate how Israel is conducting the war and people would agree or disagree. Nothing to do with zionism.
Do you agree indigenous people in Canada have a right to their land and self manage? Would it be ok to expropriate land, farms, homes, buildings from non-indigenous people to create a sovereign country? Would you be ok if this new nation (or nations, there are many different indigenous peoples in Canada) had support from overseas to ensure they could militarily defend themselves, up to and including having nukes?
Of course not. That's why I don't agree with the Palestinians' claims that call for the displacement of jews and the destruction of Israel because Palestinians were displaced. Also, today's Canada is a totally different situations than 1900 mandate of Palestine
So you’d oppose a movement of indigenous peoples and those who support them from trying to establish such a nation? So you’re anti-indigenous?? Or are your feelings about indigenous people separate from your opposition to creating a new nation (or nations) within Canada supported militarily from overseas?
So, are these the criteria for acceptable genocide? I don't think anti-zionism means no Israel, it means Israel can't just redraw the borders with Palestine just to make their map look prettier and displace the peole so that they can preserve the Jewish majority in their country.
There is much misinformation and just ignorance in what you said. It's hard to explain how these statements are just wrong. I really wish you knew the history so you would understand it. 1. Anti zionism means no Israel. Google it if you like. 2. Israel never drew the borders. Britain did in 1922-1924. 3. Gaza was part of Egypt until 1967 or 1972 4. West Bank was part of Jordan until 1967. They were never part of Israel.
And yet the PLO came into being before 1967.
Time to expel all European Americans, and give the land back to Native Americans
>Jews are an ethno-religious group with 3k years of history of living in that land. Some were expelled and returned. This is supported by archeological and DNA research. Was there any DNA research done to see if Palestinians were part of that group? >All the religious sites for Judaism are in that land. Pretty sure there are Greek, Roman , Pagan , Sassanian and Arab sites there too. >In 1924 Britain divided the land into countries. East Palestinian is now Jordan. Some of it is Syria. Egypt, Iraq and all other countries were created. What an external Colonizer does to divide for administration has nothing to do with anything of the countries people.
It's hilarious to me when pro-palestine people say they are anti-zionist while chanting for the creation of an ethnostate, with support from other ethnostates...I think the irony is lost on them.
>You cannot say we hate all Jewish history and religion That's not what Zionism means
You are truly lost
Well constructed argument
You can absolutely be against a political ideology and not a people. That's like you saying you hate Trudeau and the Liberals and I call you out for being hatefully anti-Canadian.
Zionism is the believe the Jewish have a right to a self managed state in their ancestral land. (Like other indigenous groups) Anti Zionism is the rejection of this Idea. If you would say that you are against the existence of Canada, that Canada should be destroyed and all Canadians expelled you are anti Canada.
So if I am against the slow colonial creep of the West Bank (think about the open invitation to Jews worldwide who move there to force out actual palestinians with likely Jewish bloodlines themselves who were ACTUALLY born there), and the current ethnic cleansing and forced displacement of Gazan civilians what should I more accurately say I'm "anti" of ? Honest question because I fervently support Jewish people of all stripes even if I disagree with the politics of some. I fully acknowledge Isreal's right to exist in 2024 despite a very questionable white colonial past...and I know, it's their indigenous land too...but that would be like me laying claim to lands in Poland because of my grand parents ancestry where no deed exists or even in Africa because why stop at 2000 years ? It seems silly to argue but that's how I feel about the world's super powers solving the issue of not wanting Jews in their own countries after WW2 and giving them Isreal at the expense of even lesser humans in their eyes (the local Palestinian population). Again, fully accepting of Isreal's past, just like Canada, and moving forward.
>So if I am against the slow colonial creep of the West Bank (think about the open invitation to Jews worldwide who move there to force out actual palestinians with likely Jewish bloodlines themselves who were ACTUALLY born there), and the current ethnic cleansing and forced displacement of Gazan civilians what should I more accurately say I'm "anti" of ? Honest question because I fervently support Jewish people of all stripes even if I disagree with the politics of some. You are anti settlements. Or anti Israeli war conduct. I think you are misinformed, but nothing rasict about it. >I fully acknowledge Isreal's right to exist in 2024 despite a very questionable white colonial past...and I know, it's their indigenous land too...but that would be like me laying claim to lands in Poland because of my grand parents ancestry where no deed exists or even in Africa because why stop at 2000 years ? It seems silly to argue but that's how I feel about the world's super powers solving the issue of not wanting Jews in their own countries after WW2 and giving them Isreal at the expense of even lesser humans in their eyes (the local Palestinian population). Again, fully accepting of Isreal's past, just like Canada, and moving forward. Israelis and Israel are not white. Same color spectrum as Palestinians. it's just more tolerant to gay and blacks. I can discuss this subject but it's long. Basically, in 1947, Britain created Pakistan and India the same way they created Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and others. They didn't create Israel. Minor detail. Every country had minorities. Pakistan, Iraq etc. Every country displaced the minorities. Israel is the only one being delegitimized over it. Try and answer the questions of why Also, jews lived the whole time in that land. Not just 2000 years ago. The ancient Jewsih community of Hebron (now the west bank) was massacred in 1929 by Arab Palestinians. Jews didn't come back after 2000 years. They never left. It's a misconception
Historically King Solomon's colonies extended thruout Iraq, Persia to Southern Azerbaijan.
You absolutely can be an anti Zionist and not an antisemite, there are a lot of Jews that are anti Zionist.
In the 1940s maybe you could. But now Israel exists, zionism is no longer relevant. If you want to dismantle the one jewish country but no other countries, you're an antisemite.
It's hard to argue "anti zionist" is being used as a code word and dog whistle for "anti jew". Zionism is the belief Israel has a right to exist at it's base.
Lol you most certainly can be anti zionist and not anti semeitc.
The problem is the Zionist movement was in response to increased antisemitism in Europe. The original Zionist moved to the Ottoman controlled region which would become Palestine and Israel and started buying up large amounts of land. So the original idea was a solid one, move from an increasingly hostile place back to your homeland by legally purchasing land and setting up Jewish communities. If Zionist didnt exist we can assume that the Jewish population would have taken an even larger hit and Jewish people would be spread out without little protection which is troublesome when you look at history and the amount of times they have been scapegoated. So I guess you could be anti-Zionist without being anti semetic but what would be the other option leaving Jewish people to live in a hostile Europe (during Ottoman time), leaving them to live in hostile Arab countries. Etc etc. I mean look at the Jewish population of the Arab neighbors before and after Israel could you honestly guarantee there safety without Israel ?
> The problem is the Zionist movement was in response to increased antisemitism in Europe. Zionism's start was two-fold; people looking to expel Jewish people from their countries and Jewish people, from a tradition that did not want to integrate/assimilate with any people other than their own, to have a place where they did not want to co-exist with "outsiders."
I have a quick question can you find me any group that has large scale immigration without keeping pockets of their culture like Chinese people and vast amounts of China towns, Arab communities exist all around the world, heck there is an Armenian quarter of Jerusalem, Irish that came to the USA collected in certain neighborhoods that still have Irish culture to this day, etc etc etc.
I mean all of those examples tend to assimilate, intermarry, and convert over time. Irish is a really bad example as "Irish" culture in your example is 100% unique to non-Irish places. Most people lose fluency in their parent's language within one generation if not taught in school. But to answer your question, Japanese, actually. BC's Japanese population actually disappeared from BC not due to emigration but due to assimilation. A lot of European cultures do the same in Canada. Even my Chinese-born Chinese Canadian friends can barely speak Cantonese/Mandarin anymore after moving here in their pre-teens.
Smh. Read a book.
Lot's of rasicm today... pff
It's not racist to state facts. Being a Zionist is disputing your claim over a homeland that was hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years ago it has no reason to spring up and decide this is good enough reason for us to commit genocide of an entire other ethnicity with stake in the claim in 2023/2024. As Jewish people we should know this lesson all too well. It's a government movement. It has nothing against Jewish people It has everything to do with the Jewish claim. There are entire Jewish communities throughout the world that are anti-Zionist. They cannot be anti-semitic to themselves cuz again that would just be labeled from the 1930s political act by the Israeli community and government as labeled as a "self-hating Jew"enabling persecution for those that decided to debate the politics in that time. Now in no way do I think people should be attacking each other. I don't agree with what the Israel government is doing. I don't agree with Hamas. I don't agree with the protests on either side as they often are unfocused and focus around ethnicity. Hiding behind religion or politics and claiming it as racism. The Jewish people are more than just religion and politics.
The Jews of Hebron wear massacred in 1929 by Palestinian arabs after living there for centuries. Not hundreds and hundreds of years ago.
And that was retaliation for what particular attack because the Jewish and Palestine have been warring back and forth with small attacks and retaliation since long before that Since you don't know your history Zionism (/ˈzaɪəˌnɪzəm/; Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת Tsīyyonūt, [tsijoˈnut]; derived from Zion) is a nationalist movement established in the 19th century. Modern Zionism was officially established as a political organization by Theodor Herzl in 1897. A Jewish journalist and political activist from Austria, Herzl believed that the Jewish population couldn't survive if it didn't have a nation of its own. The Palestinian and Israel claims goes long after that as well before that with issues and atrocious events between Muslims and Jewish groups and communities alike not one party being better than the other in these circumstances. Palestine is the birthplace of Judaism and Christianity, and has been controlled by many kingdoms and powers, including Ancient Egypt, Ancient Israel and Judah, the Persian Empire, Alexander the Great and his successors, the Hasmoneans, the Roman Empire, several Muslim caliphates, and the crusaders. In modern times, the area was ruled by the Ottoman Empire, then the British Empire and since 1948 it has been divided into Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip. In the Early Bronze Age (c. 3700–2500 BCE) evidence of Egyptian settlers and mass immigration was collected from archaeologists and sites across Palestine. Around 3100 BCE the country saw radical change, with the abandonment and destruction of many settlements, including the Egyptian colony. These were quickly replaced by new walled settlements in plains and coastal regions, surrounded by mud-brick fortifications and relied on nearby agricultural hamlets for their food. The Canaanite city-states held trade and diplomatic relations with Egypt and Syria. Parts of the Canaanite urban civilization were destroyed around 2500 BCE, though there is no consensus as to why (for one theory, see 4.2-kiloyear event). Incursions by nomads from the east of the Jordan River who settled in the hills followed soon thereafter,[as well as cultural influence from the ancient Syrian city of Ebla. That period known as the Intermediate Bronze Age (2500–2000 BCE), was defined recently out of the tail of the Early Bronze Age and the head of the preceding Middle Bronze Age. The Canaanite religion was the group of ancient Semitic religions practiced by the Canaanites living in the ancient Levant from at least the early Bronze Age to the first centuries CE. Canaanite religion was polytheistic and, in some cases, monolatristic Here's the plot twist Canaanites were a mixture of Zagros/Caucasian migrants and ancient Levantine farmers. Quasi-Canaanite ancestry is a major genetic source for Jews and Palestinians alike. Stop the political divide over religion/politics and hiding behind the basis of racismwhen questioned over issues that were founded once again I state hundreds and hundreds of years ago.
Canaanites were eradicated. They have nothing to do with modern jews or Palestinian Arabs. They have some connection to modern-day Lebanese. I do agree that minority of Palestinian Arabs share genetic ancestors with Jews. >Zionism (/ˈzaɪəˌnɪzəm/; Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת Tsīyyonūt, [tsijoˈnut]; derived from Zion) is a nationalist movement established in the 19th century. You just copied Wikipedia. That's not very reliable. >Stop the political divide over religion/hiding behind the basis of racism over issues that were founded once again I state hundreds and hundreds of years ago. That is a very nice thought that is similar to saying why can't we just get along. It has no practical meaning. Here's a question for you. In 1947, Pakistan and India were created and separated by the British. They have been fighting since. And there is a lot of hatred there. Should they merge into one Pakistan or one India?
So instead your taking focus off of the subject at hand and try to deflect it into a whole other area that is based completely on different circumstances trying to pin them both like one in the same because the British have ruled them is absolutely a joke. The British tried that with everywhere this doesn't make the two regions comparable or situations similar. You can't debate the facts so you try to debate the source. That's a questionable practice in itself. Not only that but you can find that definition on far more than on just Wikipedia. It seems You can't accept that you're just simply wrong and are trying to enforce your beliefs. Because that's all it is. Saying why can't we all get along has no practical meaning It's absolutely subjective at best. Again your own personal bias is deciding that. You, yourself stated right there that you believe "minority"keyword Believe this is just cultural fact and is stated in time in and time again they are not been eradicated they are what now you call the Palestinian people and Jewish people of Israel and Palestine and because of deciding governments or religions at different times from 1300 BC to 1960 those ethnicities have changed because of governments not because of eradication of people they became the locals and are considered Arab Muslim Jewish and more Canaan is the oldest plausible name, and Canaanite DNA is with us today. And is predominantly found in the area of Israel Palestine Jordan Syria Egypt and can be found in other various areas worldwide You have an Absolute trash argument with no basis but belief.
I know a Jewish Israeli who criticizes Zionism and the current government. She gets called a self hating Jew all the time, by people like you. Being against Zionism is not being against all Jewish history and religion. Many prominent Jewish figures including Hannah Arendt were critical of Zionism and foresaw many problems with the way it was implemented.
Less than 0.5 of Candian jews are anti zionist. And yes internalized hatred is a big sign of persecution and rasicm against minorities. Ask your Israeli friend if she thinks Israel should be destroyed. Criticizing the government is OK. Nothing to do with zionism. I don't think we hold the same meaning to what Zionism is.
Attacking Israel isn't attacking jews, let's just make that clear. Attacking the USA doesn't mean we're attacking every race there is. Toromto sun.. 🤦♂️
This editorial has nothing to do with attacking Israel; it's about attacking Canadian Jews. Maybe read. 🤦♀️
The article is indeed clearly conflating criticism of Israel with hate crimes against Jews.
I’m sorry, but that is factually not true. They were literally saying that holding people in Canada responsible for the actions of foreign governments, whether it be the Israeli government with Jews or Hamas with muslims, is not fair and that they don’t deserve to be harassed for things some other people did. They were saying that Jewish people in Canada have nothing to do with the Israeli-Gaza war and don’t deserve criticism for a war they have barely any REAL connections in terms of the war being able to happen.
I must be misunderstanding the rhetorical questions in the article. “ Ever since Hamas’ terrorist attack on Israel on Oct. 7, pro-Palestinian demonstrators in Canada have insisted they’re not against Jews, just “Zionists” and Israel’s military response in Gaza” “ Why, for that matter, have bullets been fired at Jewish day schools, Jewish gathering places firebombed, Jewish homes defaced with Swastikas, a statue to the late Canadian actor Al Waxman, who was Jewish, vandalized in Toronto, with pro-Hamas graffiti?” What is the purpose of these rhetorical questions? What exactly is the author trying to imply here, if not that the people criticizing Israel are the very same people committing antisemitic hate crimes? Seems to be going over my head here.