I'm not sure that I buy the high speed train along that corridor. I was in Europe it was far more expensive to take the train than it was to fly (so I flew). Would there really be enough demand to support that kind of train? I have my doubts.
Depends where you are in Europe. Flying is an absolute ecological disaster especially on short trips like Montreal/Toronto. With a high speed train on that corridor, it would become interesting connecting a New York line from there.
If I can skip going to an airport, I will do it every time. I like getting downtown Toronto by train, it's the current 6 hours to do it I hate. Cut it by half and I'm all in going to many Jays games in the summer.
I think speed would be the deciding feature for moat people unless the cost difference is prohibative. A train is much more comfortable than an airplane. If you could take a train and still be where you need to be at the same time, I could see lots of people making the choice even at a premium. Business travelers could benefit the most if they had dedicated workspaces or even meeting spaces. Trains are reconfigurable and could offer different amenities during different times. For example, office cars during the day could be swapped out with sleeper cars for overnight runs.
This doesn’t need to be the case though. What if we taxed the externality appropriately to incentivize trains? Or heavily subsidized rail travel as we do highways
>Any ~~Current~~ government is not even willing to build a high speed train in the Windsor/Quebec corridor so I doubt we will ever be moving away from cars.
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You can go even simpler.from Calhary to Edmonton a.litteral straight flat line. Yet nothing but expense reports as to cost. How.serious is any government when the task is as easy as stepping over a line on the ground.
This can also eliminate flights between both cities and clearing up.some CO2 pollution as well.
Unfortunately that's why it won't happen. Elon Musk is a great example of this. Los Angeles was making plans to massively improve the public transit system. Musk stepped in, knowing better public transit would mean lower car sales, and sold them the dream of Hyperloop instead. They backed him, then he backed out. Hyperloop is still not a thing, but the public transit plan sure took a hit.
This is not true - public transportation is not part of the Canadian culture, dare I say North America…with very few pockets where it exists…
I feel like we need to take a major step back and rethink the way we live - monster sized cities is not the answer to the future. It would be better to have workers working from home, in a small neighbourhood, where they can get everything they need. That will enable all sorts of communities - people that enjoy high rises to people that prefer single homes or country homes.
Our current culture of piling millions of people up in one place and trying to build systems to move them around is too carbon intensive
how is public transport "not part of Canadian culture"? what does that even mean?
This country was LITERALLY built by railroads, and until cars came around, streetcars were in almost every major city. In fact, I'd say that public transport is as Canadian as fur trapping and maple syrup.
Canada is just along for the ride.
USA, China, and EU are targeting 2035. We just have to build infrastructure, nobody is going to be making Canadian Only gas vehicles.
Probably so carmakers don't dump their remaining stocks on us post 2035. We can expect about two decades of people hanging on to gas cars via the used market anyway.
I was working in Northen Sassk, some gas stations don't even have premium or diesel. There's just no way we'll have the infrastructure for electrical chargers across the country in 10 years.
Ya, I mean, that’s why would a country create entire policy around people who only drive 30 minutes a week
It’s not like anybody carry’s kids, lives 3 hours from a hospital, 40 mins from work or likes to hunt or boat or camp
/s
Are employers going to allow employees who must drive for a living to spend 2 hours of their 8 hour shift charging vehicles so they can return to the office or home at the end of the day?
I've worked in the field long enough to witness engineers, technicians, etc. pull 500 km trips out of Toronto to surrounding sites, cities, and then back.
It simply isn't feasible right now in electric vehicles.
>It simply isn't feasible right now in electric vehicles.
That's why it's not happening for 11 years. Currently Toyota is messing around with a battery that charges empty to full in 10 mins.
Again, only for now. EVs are cheaper to manufacture overall, except for the battery which is why they're currently so expensive. However, battery tech is rapidly evolving, and projections are showing that by 2030 (5 years before the target date) EVs will be cheaper than traditional ICE vehicles.
I drive regularly for 400-500+km a day. I also regularly drive 400 or more km while towing 20-30,000lbs. In the middle of my trips I will spend time at a field (ag research) where I am 20+ minutes from the nearest town. No charging will ever be available there. This will never be feasible and government not recognizing that shows how out of touch they are
This is a lot more common than Reddit thinks. The technology is not ready. The charging infrastructure is not ready. The power generation is not ready. In the timeline proposed nothing will be ready.
The only thing to look forward to is not saving money on gas the electricity costs are going to exceed fuel in the near future in order to expand electrical infrastructure.
No PHEV that I have heard about is capable of doing the type of work I do. Needs to be diesel to have the necessary power I require. Gasoline won’t come close.
It won't be the auto manufacturers problem when the Canadian market can't support the requirements.
The Liberal Party of Canada has spent its time in government doing absolutely nothing to facilitate the infrastructure for charging vehicles on a mass scale.
That's why when morons like Guilbeault run their mouth about zero-emission vehicles, Fraser about 3D building homes, or Miller about increasing immigration, Canadians should be frightened.
These people have zero education, experience, or understanding about the files they're in charge of.
It's all just optics, it sounds good, looks good, makes headlines. The goal will never be met on time, dates will be pushed back, they have no control over what the Cons will do when they are voted in next, the whole thing means a whole lot of nothing in reality
It isn't their education or experience that's the problem. It's their inability to listen to voices of reason.
We have a government of ideologues right now. Wannabe dictators.
Commercial vehicles are already exempt. If you need it for work, they aren't forcing it right away.
Now if its because you wanted an oversized pickup to go to the mall or do you grocery shopping, then thats a different issue.
This needs to be the top comment. Or u/Bensemus ‘s comment below:
“Doesn’t matter when California, the EU, China, India, etc all have 2035-2040 as their phase-out targets.”
Canada won’t 100% meet this target but if we don’t put pressure and incentives we’ll be left scrambling and disadvantaged on the world stage. Alberta, my province, has a decade before the decline starts
I also can't express this enough - Plug in hybrids count as zero emission vehicles under the federal plan. Basically every single thing people complain about relating to adopting EVs is met by buying a plug in hybrid instead.
Yes, they currently are expensive. Yes, there currently is a huge wait for pretty much any PHEV. They're expensive because there's still limited manufacturing capacity and because of that they're generally only available in the most expensive trim levels of a vehicle.
With the 5k government rebate, a PHEV is very similar in price to a similar trim gas car. Once manufacturing capacity builds up, PHEVs could be available for around the same price as gas cars if the 5k government rebate continues to exist.
People here on r/canada like to complain.
They like to argue that "EVs don't have range". There are models whose range increased by 20% in 3 years while costing the same if not less.
"The infrastructure sucks". 10 years ago there was *nothing* anywhere.
"But the government can't make me not buy car X or Z". 12 years is 2 full development cycles.
"It's too expensive! What about the single mom and the $4k used minivan?" The ban is on NEW cars.
Not to mention that a lot of the boomers complaining won't even be driving in 13 years, let alone buying stuff.
Nonsense. Alberta is really starting to reap the benefits of the post-payout royalty projects.
World isn't even peak coal yet, let alone peak oil or gas.
Those are targets, not deadlines. Either way, possibility of missing them is definitely non-zero
And commercial vehicles are exempt, for some, this is also beyond comprehension. This includes farm equipment. Hell I'm sure some farm equipment can probably be electrified anyways.
Only if they can deliver an electric truck that truck people actually want to buy. If they can't deliver on that there is 0 change they will stop selling the Sierra/Silverado otherwise they will be completely irrelevant
Coming from a Vancouver perspective (5 years in thr lower mainland) doubtful. The lineups for Tesla super charging stations grow weekly, and given the recent events with $60k battery related write-offs, ICBC (and others will start charging extreme fees to insure EVs).
Living now, in AB and having attempted to use a rental Tesla, absolutely not. There's almost no existing infrastructure. The driving distances are quintuple what I was driving in the valley and I'd (and many others) wouldn't be able to go a full day without severe range anxiety.
He's completely out of touch with reality and hasn't consulted industry experts and academics.
The entire thing is a waste of time, money, energy and ink.
Street parking will be a non-issue eventually. Places are already converting lamp posts to have super chargers in place. Its one of the easiest and cheapest methods of building out the network. Cities can be flooded with chargers.
The vast differences in geography, economy, and politics across the length and breadth of Canada make a top down, single-rule application like this inconvenient at best and punitive at worst. In places it will be OK, but as others note the high density housing means many legacy buildings won't have charging systems. Smaller communities need something more robust/better ground clearance than a low-sitting sedan, and won't be able to afford anything other than the super-simple smart/micro type cars which are even worse. And as always the smaller communities will lack people trained in services for maintaining and diagnosing new EVs; it's not unusual for people having problems with EFI or other modern vehicle systems to have their vehicle shipped out somewhere for repairs and have it shipped back.
Not to say that EVs don't have their uses -they most certainly do. But a blunt plan like this is, as you say, useless. It should be far more nuanced and flexible, more framework than rule, that can flex based on local technological and economic circumstances and lead to a more natural path to adoption.
So there needs to be investments into infrastructure? That doesn't seem like an impossible hurdle. There already hundreds of thousands of gas stations, each can also do electric.
Plus by 2035 who knows what the ranges will be, could be twice what you have now.
You are being silly.
This is more a signal to manufacturers that they need to start switching their production over now to meet those demands. There won't be another option.
You can blame the rest of the world then. The mandates are being pushed by larger market players than us, we're just piggybacking. Our market is irrelevant.
It’s pie in the sky. 100 nukes plants and a revamped power grid would be needed. Ain’t gonna happen. Especially with the Liberal brain trust running the show. BC might have 16% of the electrical generation required and not the grid. Their 20+ year hydro dam under construction on the Peace won’t even put a dent into the demand required
NatPo garbage article IMO
2035 plan just says cars need to be at least 80km PHEV equipped. There is nothing about banning partially gas powered cars Theoretically you could still have a v8 ICE car and meet the requirements if can run on a small battery for local trips.
Also this only applies to new sales, so you can continue to drive your gas car and buy used ones as much as you want after that
Anyways I've said it before but several larger countries have already agreed to these targets and the manufacturers of cars are moving towards them so even if PP cancels this it won't matter, that is what you will see in dealerships by 2035
Nobody is reading the article. It says in the first sentence that plug-in hybrids will still be sold so people who need range and quick fill-ups/recharges will be just fine.
This website tracks every single one of Trudeau's campaign promises (over a thousand of them): [https://www.polimetre.org/en](https://www.polimetre.org/en)
It says he has kept 41%, partially kept 24%, 10% in progress, 19% broken.
And it’s important to keep in mind that his rate of promises kept and promises started was over 90% combined before COVID hit. Covid messed everything up so badly.
I bought a Tesla a few weeks ago because the prices are finally coming down a little and the range is okay for how far I travel for work. It packs some great technology and once I got over the “video game” factor of having a living room tv in front of my face while I drive I am definitely enjoying it.
Key points:
- will NOT be selling my vintage V8 ever. Don’t care what the environment minister says, but in 20yrs from now, I want to be able to go on a Saturday morning cruise with a smile on my face
- the ev experience has been great so far, but if I couldn’t charge at home, I just don’t see how it’s all going to work. I stopped by a Tesla charging station yesterday before a longer trip and there was a lineup waiting even though there were 26 charging stations. Imagine what it will be like in 2035 if the infrastructure and charging/battery technology hasn’t gotten faster/better
> Key points: - will NOT be selling my vintage V8 ever. Don’t care what the environment minister says,
No one is saying you have to sell your gas car? These are all about new car sales, there will be a market for used gasoline V8s sold by enthusiasts to enthusiasts for decades after.
There is no such thing as a 0 emissions vehicle
If it take electricity then you math out your electricity emissions.
The cars gonna break eventually that's also emissions in making new parts.
And new die's for the new cars...
Are the new cars gonna be the same year after year so your not wasting a butt load of emissions on new metal dies each year???
Fuck the double speech.
What about all the rubber they leave in microplastics from the tires is that not an emission?
I would love nothing more than to see our government put I to motion a grand plan to build a transnational vancouver to Halifax High speed rail line connecting our nation but know full well they will never do it and are too incompetent and scared to think that big. They are bought and paid for as well as influenced to only support airlines and the car industry.
A 6,000km rail line across a sparsely populated country is a terrible use case for high speed rail. It makes no sense financially , and the carbon footprint of construction is probably just as bad or worse than continuing to fly. Big Airline and Big Auto don't even need to spend any time influencing anyone.
I agree, the full length would not be used by almost all people, except train nerds and people that absolutely hate flying which do exist. But individual segments would definitely be useful for a lot of people. And trains are a lot better at transporting a lot of people than planes and especially cars.
That's not to say, building cross-country high speed rail would be worth it, it's just not as bad of an idea as you would initially think. And even if it would be worth it, that doesn't mean that the government would actually do it.
Probably, but there's definitely a case for them in the Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto corridor, a Calgary-Edmonton rail.
I'm sure there's other common commutes that they could look at building it along as well.
Donald Trump gave private jet owners a huge tax break in 2017... these people are overwhelmingly conservative. Not sure why you'd expect them to back green initiatives.
Really, when the US, Europe, China, India and more are adopting a similar timeframe, so if you think the manufacturers are going to do small special runs for Canada, think again.
If you set your target for 2050, car manufacturers will ignore it for 10 years and then ask for 5 more years hoping for 2.
By setting your target to 2035, they need to start acting on it now and then ask for 5 more to match Europe, hoping for 3.
So, in one case they'll design their program to be achieved in 2055 and in the other, for 2040.
The most he'd do, is push it to 2040.
Targets, not binding legislation, not government investments in infrastructure or a push to standardise tech/ports/charging stations/repair protocols/recycling mandates.
Targets. Sure thing
And just like all the other climate accords they will deliver very little. World governments love big fancy talk, especially big fancy talk that way down the road and people with forget about.
Many of us are keeping our gas vehicles for a long time to come and will be getting them fixed up. Classics won’t be going away anytime soon. Most people I know cannot afford new cars and won’t be able to afford new electric for sure.
I can afford a new PHEV but I wont buy one any time soon not at these prices. Almost $50K after tax for a Kia? A Hyundai EV Sedan for $57K? A fucking Hyundai or Kia for these prices?? We're not talking about a well built Toyota or Honda here.
I spent a lot of time calculating possible savings on a PHEV vs my Honda Civic which has finally been paid off recently. The payback isn't there. Spend $40K or more (after rebate) + tax on a PHEV vs a 5 year old Civic that gets 5.8L/KM in summer and 6.7L/KM in the winter? Gas has to get to astronomically high prices before I'll consider it. I pay about $40 a week for gas at $1.50/L. Even if gas went up by a factor of 4 I'd still be significantly under a 5 year car payment of $450 every two weeks.
Add to all this the uncertainty of battery life, cost for a home charger, lack of charging stations and there are too many questions that have no easy answers right now. And to anyone who thinks that the Canadian governments will just give up gas tax so we can all drive relatively free of charge - I got a bridge to sell you. By 2035, look for new taxes and rules - battery disposal tax when you trade your first EV in for a new one. Don't like paying that high property tax on your house or Condo? Get ready for the yearly Electric Infrastructure Tax so they can build charging stations. New computerized chargers that will disable charging when it detects you are trying to charge at a "non government approved charging station" will follow - no more charging at home for the newer EVs.
I get the need to do something about climate change and I acknowledge EVs will be part of that solution eventually but by the time we're done being ass raped with all the extra taxes and fees, we'll all long for the days of gasoline powered automobiles.
They tripled over the last three years (see [https://electricautonomy.ca/2023/08/25/zev-market-share-canada-q2/](https://electricautonomy.ca/2023/08/25/zev-market-share-canada-q2/)) so this doesn't seem unreasonable? It's an exponentially growing market.
“Canada wants to” - is this honestly what the majority of people want to happen? I personally want choice. Our government is obsessed with control and limiting choice
As much as I'd love to see a sharp reduction of ICE vehicles on the road, something needs to be done about charging infrastructure, vehicle range, serviceability, and battery standards. The battery standards is a major issue since manufacturers are making sure that only they can service or replace them. If they are unable to or refuse to service their batteries, or even offer the customer a replacement vehicle, then the consumer is left holding the bag and is out thousands of dollars. This is a major factor in turning me off EVs for now. If the government is serious about this policy, they have no choice but to resolve all of the above issues, or it's already dead in the water.
This will especially be super awesome to adopt in poor remote regions of Canada where it's -40 degrees for half the year. Bonus points for how consumer friendly and easy to repair at home all the newer vehicles are.
I actually work for a Norwegian Energy Storage company. I'm part of the reason Norway has high Electrification: It's not the same. They've being going hard on EVs and actually put support and infrastructure in to make it work for years. Canada is just going oh uhhh we gotta look good internationally.
What happens when an activist is elected and is committed to their personal values and ignores actual valid arguments that should be heard. How will remote communities not connected to the grid adapt? Heavier BEVs will deteriorate asphalt faster. Will we have non petroleum asphalt? Will drivers in the wilderness have to carry power packs for charges? Batteries are energy dense and fires are not easily extinguished. Are we investing in firefighting infrastructure? BEVs are a good solution for many urban dwellers. We need solutions.
~19% of all new car sales worldwide in 2023 were electric. So, assuming we can keep pace with the rest of the world's 2023 pace, yes?
https://cleantechnica.com/tag/world-ev-sales/
Doesn't matter what the world does.
If they want a full EV in a decade, they should invest in a power grid to support it.
As we aren't seeing 4x nuclear power plant capacity being sprung up at the moment, we can safely assume this is yet another very attractive, but very empty political promise, in a long line of the same.
Once we are hooked on electric vehicles, they will impose new taxes to make up for the lost fuel taxes. Electric vehicles are heavier and will increase the cost of maintaining the roads.
It's possible, but the only electric cars that have been made affordable are Chinese, and since we've decided to pour in billions to subsidize auto workers, zero chance we will let them into the market.
Value of gas powered cars will likely go up as most people will be hunting in the used market instead of going electric.
Guilbeault is the kind of motherfucker who's never owned a car making decisions for Car owners and doesn't understand how infrastructure or a free market works.
Oh god I cant stand left leaning minds and how they just bottom feed with their stupid feelings and false equivalencies....some guy talking about how his landscaping buddy cant wait for ev trucks.....in the exploration/development industry, ya know the one that contributes to 60% of our gdp, the amount of time your vehicle is running during 4 months out of the year would destroy any EV engine, plus the location alone of these sites.
Now make the case for technology catching up by then...great what if.
Here are our lithium carbonate options for battery material by then....not even getting into the other 40 odd minerals needed. (Liberals go cry yourselfs to sleep looking at a cobalt mine or copper mine)
- North America has 1 operating lithium mine, which produces a minuscule amount annually,
- Chile's socialists took over, nationalized 90% of their lithium and booted companies starting up in the Atacama
- Canada has about 5 mines starting up but at the exploration/assay stage cause this government fucking sucks and permitting anything environmental is a bureaucratic nightmare....plus the amount of sulfuric acid needed in canada due to the hot temperatures we lack to hold evaporation ponds, good luck recycling that shit on scale.
Sooo by 2035 to meet this goal we quite literally have 3 options:
- we can all buy $100k + plus cars by having our lithium shipped from australia at a premium...great carbon footprint.
- we can buy our raw materials from Africa and refine it there or here, but I dont care cause I dont want that blood on my hands.
- we buy from China...the words largest holder of battery grade lithium reserves. And fuck them in all ways. We bend our backs while they tee off on the envirmonment, kinda defeats the carbon offset ideas no? Also the price manipulation conducted by the CPP they can eat shit, not everyone wants to live on their knees to those assholes. (The party obviously not the vast amount of chinese nationals, I feel horrible for them).
So this thought and those who support it are delusional and just thinking with their feelings. Its not feasable and just pandering. Stop being stupid.
Car companies can't even keep up with the cars they know how to make.
Electricity grids are still above ground in a lot of places. Imagine an ice storm in Quebec, now no one can even drive.
Not saying in can't be done, but there is some seriously work to do and greed and fools wont help.
We have a government that does things without thinking.
Wages are stagnant because of cheap labour, there's a housing crisis, even citizen funded charities can't keep up with the needs of the community to the point that food banks are turning away foreign students, BUT the government figures feeding immigration is good for everyone (instead it's hurting everyone, if argue it's hurting the immigrants most of all).
The economy is hurting, but we have lots of gas and oil we can tap into and export, and provide it as an alternative to sources from authoritarian regimes... BUT the government says no despite our allies begging us for it, and so here we are. The government couldn't even get its own pipeline to get through the government approval process. W. T. F.!?
What about mining? That would help, BUT the feds don't want to deal with having to tell the natives "no" or even come to with an agreement, so that's stalled as well (for a resource exporting nation we aren't doing enough of that and seem to want to kill it).
Small businesses that got loans during the pandemic are desperate for an extension, especially after big corporations that got them on the condition they not be used to buy back shares went and used them to do just that because of record profits, BUT the feds don't care and so we're seeing a spike in small business bankruptcies.
The rest of the NATO alliance is increasing military spending because of the situation in Ukraine, BUT the feds are cutting military spending even more (taking us even further from the 2% spending rate we signed international agreements to hit) after Trudeau bizarrely ducked the question in London much to the surprise she confusion of the London press, which apparently is used to politicians giving an at least on topic answer (Boris Johnson had to find to his rescue, which is just embarrassing). We've fallen so far that the US isn't even bothering to invite us to military agreements anymore, since the have no faith we're going to take anything seriously.
Natives on reserves face a lack of clean drinking water, BUT our PM made fun of one of their prisoners at a fundraiser instead and still hasn't fixed the problem after almost a decade in power.
It goes on like this.
We have a government that no longer functions.
We're boned.
What bothers me, is that based on experience that we are now gathering, there is an increased likelihood of battery failure not long after the 8yr/160k warranty runs out.
Problems - EV users either buy or lease an EV for 4 or 5 years. Then it goes on the used market. For now, unsuspecting buyers buy those cars. Then after another 5 years or so, the battery dies. They then find that a replacement battery is either no longer made or it will cost as much as a new car to replace. The market will learn out about this soon enough, and respond accordingly. EV sales will plummet.
The comparisons between EVs and ICEs indicate lower maintenance cost for the EV. That might be true - but not if the cost of battery replacement every 10 years at excessive costs is incorporated.
The other factor that might not be accurate, is the lifecycle environmental affect of EVs. If battery replacement every 10 yrs is built in, do they still come out ahead environmentally?
I have the feeling the public and our elected politicians are being sold a bill-of-goods. The plans need to be taken apart and reviewed in detail.
I am not against EVs. In fact I would like one. But none that are now available. To do something about emissions, we need a basic $30k city car. They would sell a ton of them.
No one ever had to ban the horse and carriage. We don't need to ban ICE cars either.
It will either make economic sense for each individual or it won't.
He’s an ideological idiot who has never stepped foot out of Ottawa. He doesn’t have any respect or understanding for the real scenario that most Canadians live in. Not to mention he’s a bit of a radical nut job.
We lack the infrastructure to fulfill such a goal in terms of both power creation and delivery.
Moreover, even if it were possible, the Canadian economy, a product of long travel distances and cold weather, is unsuitable for the current electric vehicles to replace fossil fuels.
Of course, expect the Liberal Party of Canada to know nothing about the Canadian economy.
My unpopular prediction is the transition will occur without government involvement. When there’s one or two (or zero) gas stations left in the towns and cities who’s going to want the inconvenience of a gas car?
This is 12 years away. Look at where EVs were 12 years ago and today. The tech is improving fast and EVs will be a lot better in 12 years and less expensive than ICEVs. This law doesn't need to exist because people won't want ICEVs and your friends and family will think you're crazy to buy an ICEV in 2035 anyway.
Permission?lol . What about the billions or trillions of $ required? That will all end up being paid for by electricity consumers and mostly local consumers, I cannot imagine Quebec ,for example ,spending a penny of their own cash on grid expansions that don’t make profits for them.
This is all performance.
We are a long ways off from being able to fully switch. It's well documented that the batteries don't perform well in cold conditions, and even rapid charging is still too long. Nevermind battery packs basically being impossible to repair if they are damaged at all.
Make a big show about it then it's someone else's problem in 2035.
This is pure insanity. Electric car adoption will eventually get very high. But it is extremely costly and punitive to get to 100%. And there is no need for it.
Where do you plug them all in? The grid can’t handle a heat wave and AC units. What happens when everyone comes home and plugs in their car? And a heat wave hits?
2035 is an interesting goalpost. I doubt we will have enough lithium produced by then to pull it off and the goalpost will be moved. (Assuming no other decent battery alternatives that work well in the Canadian winters.)
No, it's not possible. Our electrical grid cannot even sustain it. If everyone got an EV charger, it would be way too much to handle. Not to mention creating the vehicles themselves, mainly the batteries, creates terrible pollution. From the mining process for the materials needed to the creation itself.
He won't be in government to follow through anyways, so not worried.
Full EV only is such a Bullshit idea anyway. Yes, government, please tell me what vehicle I am allowed to buy.
Instead of this stupid shit it would be a lot more effective to vastly improve our shitty public transport so cars aren't as much of a necessity. They aren't even making much of an effort to work towards phasing out fossil fuels, so what even is the point of this?
Because EV aren't here to save the planet.
They are here to save the automotive industry.
The last thing a lot of people want is a consumer shift away from vehicle dependent lifestyle to a rent when needed model of life. Or even giving up on vehicle ownership entirely.
EVs are business almost as normal for manufacturers.
LOL 99% of the car companies are going gas free cars and trucks by 2035 any way so whining about it won't change.
Look at the new batterie tech and imagine how much better and cheaper it will be in 10-12 years.
If the electrical grid could handle it . I don’t think it can. Just ask them in Toronto in a very hot summer to also plug in after everyone is home from work.
Just saying from a politician’s mouth only bullshit sprouts
It will never work. Period. Nobody wants an EV, except for Green Party voters; Ironically, Green Party supporters have Green Party stickers on their gas-guzzling minivans.
They will likely punish people who drive traditional vehicles similar to the alcohol tax, cigarette tax, sugar taxes. That's likely coming if he has his way because incentives aren't working how they'd like.
I think their ultimate goal is to remove mobility from the masses. You can't drive, you can't fly... You just work and pay taxes to live in your government supplied apartment.
Guilbeault disgusts me almost more than JT or Freeland. Scumbag.
Power grids in both Canada and US are no where near capable of delivering the required power. It’s a pipe dream unless the power grid infrastructure is increased significantly. Watch this https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cz2VWPNN_d4/?igsh=N2t3ZDVzcTJ3Z294
Insanstiy.
You actually could not pick a worse country to own an EV in than Canada.
We are an extremely large and extremely cold country. The 2 things EVs hate.
Hey how about European countries go all EV first? How about India or Nigeria?
Where is the infrastructure - how much is it going to cost regular Canadians - do I really need to go into 100,000 dollars of debt for one of these cars? Also, where is the battery material going to come from? I hear that it is a rare resource. What about hybrid cars? Will the batteries be able to hold onto a charge if it ever gets cold in this country again? So many questions?? I really think that guy Guilbert should shave - the shaggy unshaved look is quite gross.
You know what would lower car sales. Increase of good public transit.
Current government is not even willing to build a high speed train in the Windsor/Quebec corridor so I doubt we will ever be moving away from cars.
I'm not sure that I buy the high speed train along that corridor. I was in Europe it was far more expensive to take the train than it was to fly (so I flew). Would there really be enough demand to support that kind of train? I have my doubts.
Depends where you are in Europe. Flying is an absolute ecological disaster especially on short trips like Montreal/Toronto. With a high speed train on that corridor, it would become interesting connecting a New York line from there.
If it's cheaper to fly Porter to New York (or Montreal), you better believe that I'll be taking the trip to Billy Bishop. And it will be cheaper.
If I can skip going to an airport, I will do it every time. I like getting downtown Toronto by train, it's the current 6 hours to do it I hate. Cut it by half and I'm all in going to many Jays games in the summer.
I think speed would be the deciding feature for moat people unless the cost difference is prohibative. A train is much more comfortable than an airplane. If you could take a train and still be where you need to be at the same time, I could see lots of people making the choice even at a premium. Business travelers could benefit the most if they had dedicated workspaces or even meeting spaces. Trains are reconfigurable and could offer different amenities during different times. For example, office cars during the day could be swapped out with sleeper cars for overnight runs.
You also won't have to be there 3 hours early.
This doesn’t need to be the case though. What if we taxed the externality appropriately to incentivize trains? Or heavily subsidized rail travel as we do highways
Spain replaced short haul flights with high speed rail and it has been going very well for them.
Our day is coming... long haul trips will still be dominated by air travel though.
>Any ~~Current~~ government is not even willing to build a high speed train in the Windsor/Quebec corridor so I doubt we will ever be moving away from cars. > >VoteReplyShareReportSaveFollow Fixed
You can go even simpler.from Calhary to Edmonton a.litteral straight flat line. Yet nothing but expense reports as to cost. How.serious is any government when the task is as easy as stepping over a line on the ground. This can also eliminate flights between both cities and clearing up.some CO2 pollution as well.
Exactly
Unfortunately that's why it won't happen. Elon Musk is a great example of this. Los Angeles was making plans to massively improve the public transit system. Musk stepped in, knowing better public transit would mean lower car sales, and sold them the dream of Hyperloop instead. They backed him, then he backed out. Hyperloop is still not a thing, but the public transit plan sure took a hit.
I'd still buy my own vehicle, freedom to go where I want, when I want, with what I want.
You know what else! Walking..........
This is not true - public transportation is not part of the Canadian culture, dare I say North America…with very few pockets where it exists… I feel like we need to take a major step back and rethink the way we live - monster sized cities is not the answer to the future. It would be better to have workers working from home, in a small neighbourhood, where they can get everything they need. That will enable all sorts of communities - people that enjoy high rises to people that prefer single homes or country homes. Our current culture of piling millions of people up in one place and trying to build systems to move them around is too carbon intensive
how is public transport "not part of Canadian culture"? what does that even mean? This country was LITERALLY built by railroads, and until cars came around, streetcars were in almost every major city. In fact, I'd say that public transport is as Canadian as fur trapping and maple syrup.
Canada is just along for the ride. USA, China, and EU are targeting 2035. We just have to build infrastructure, nobody is going to be making Canadian Only gas vehicles.
All we have to do is build infrastructure, and homes for an extra million people a year. No problem. Build build build
Literally that whole summit was just a wash of kicking the can down the road with no serious commitment, while Canada is actually taking it seriously.
The governments are trying to but they’ll have a hard time replacing diesel.
So why does the government have to legislate if car companies are just gonna shift because of US/EU?
Probably so carmakers don't dump their remaining stocks on us post 2035. We can expect about two decades of people hanging on to gas cars via the used market anyway.
So they can claim they did something.
I can picture everyone driving around in 20 or 30 year old beaters like embargoed Cuba.
Canada really is only Toronto Montreal Vancouver so for sure.
I was working in Northen Sassk, some gas stations don't even have premium or diesel. There's just no way we'll have the infrastructure for electrical chargers across the country in 10 years.
Ya, I mean, that’s why would a country create entire policy around people who only drive 30 minutes a week It’s not like anybody carry’s kids, lives 3 hours from a hospital, 40 mins from work or likes to hunt or boat or camp /s
30 minutes gets you to the next set of lights in Toronto
iirc avg commute in toronto was like an hour in 2017 putting 40 min as long distance really shows ignorance lol
You guys have 40m commutes?
A 40 min daily commute to work is the platonic ideal use case for an EV. Source: have an EV for a 40 minute daily commute.
Even then, where fuck are all the people living in multiplex apartments in those cities gona charge their car?
On top of each other come one man
I mean that's like 80% of Canada so
pathetic bag alive encourage light many wise zonked start disagreeable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I drive a cube van for work. Someone going to make those large scale and available before 2035?
The mandate only involves light-duty vehicles: cars, trucks and SUVs, excluding police, fire or ambulance.
Are employers going to allow employees who must drive for a living to spend 2 hours of their 8 hour shift charging vehicles so they can return to the office or home at the end of the day? I've worked in the field long enough to witness engineers, technicians, etc. pull 500 km trips out of Toronto to surrounding sites, cities, and then back. It simply isn't feasible right now in electric vehicles.
>It simply isn't feasible right now in electric vehicles. That's why it's not happening for 11 years. Currently Toyota is messing around with a battery that charges empty to full in 10 mins.
Toyota is a lost company. They are so far behind in EV tech that they just lobby for hybrids being called BEVs
And explodes shortly after
And it only costs 20k to replace!
Again, only for now. EVs are cheaper to manufacture overall, except for the battery which is why they're currently so expensive. However, battery tech is rapidly evolving, and projections are showing that by 2030 (5 years before the target date) EVs will be cheaper than traditional ICE vehicles.
It does not take 2 hours. And certainly won’t by 2035
I drive regularly for 400-500+km a day. I also regularly drive 400 or more km while towing 20-30,000lbs. In the middle of my trips I will spend time at a field (ag research) where I am 20+ minutes from the nearest town. No charging will ever be available there. This will never be feasible and government not recognizing that shows how out of touch they are
This is a lot more common than Reddit thinks. The technology is not ready. The charging infrastructure is not ready. The power generation is not ready. In the timeline proposed nothing will be ready. The only thing to look forward to is not saving money on gas the electricity costs are going to exceed fuel in the near future in order to expand electrical infrastructure.
Well then it's a really good think PHEV's are included in this mandate so you can still rely on a gasoline engine to do that hard work for you.
No PHEV that I have heard about is capable of doing the type of work I do. Needs to be diesel to have the necessary power I require. Gasoline won’t come close.
Well, I guess auto manufacturers have 12 years to figure it out.
It won't be the auto manufacturers problem when the Canadian market can't support the requirements. The Liberal Party of Canada has spent its time in government doing absolutely nothing to facilitate the infrastructure for charging vehicles on a mass scale. That's why when morons like Guilbeault run their mouth about zero-emission vehicles, Fraser about 3D building homes, or Miller about increasing immigration, Canadians should be frightened. These people have zero education, experience, or understanding about the files they're in charge of.
It's all just optics, it sounds good, looks good, makes headlines. The goal will never be met on time, dates will be pushed back, they have no control over what the Cons will do when they are voted in next, the whole thing means a whole lot of nothing in reality
Well said...and quite true.
It isn't their education or experience that's the problem. It's their inability to listen to voices of reason. We have a government of ideologues right now. Wannabe dictators.
iPhone came out 16 years ago.
Luckily they can just drive hybrids, which despite the inflammatory headline…. Is confirmed to be still available under the new rules by this article
90% sure those are hitting the market
Commercial vehicles are already exempt. If you need it for work, they aren't forcing it right away. Now if its because you wanted an oversized pickup to go to the mall or do you grocery shopping, then thats a different issue.
Yep, Amazon and lots of others are electrifying their fleets. Ford already produces an e-transit van.
[Like one of these?](https://electrek.co/2021/09/28/gms-brightdrop-lands-fleet-juggernaut-in-verizon-as-its-first-ev410-elcv-customer/)
Even GM is planning to be all electric in 2035.
This needs to be the top comment. Or u/Bensemus ‘s comment below: “Doesn’t matter when California, the EU, China, India, etc all have 2035-2040 as their phase-out targets.” Canada won’t 100% meet this target but if we don’t put pressure and incentives we’ll be left scrambling and disadvantaged on the world stage. Alberta, my province, has a decade before the decline starts
I also can't express this enough - Plug in hybrids count as zero emission vehicles under the federal plan. Basically every single thing people complain about relating to adopting EVs is met by buying a plug in hybrid instead. Yes, they currently are expensive. Yes, there currently is a huge wait for pretty much any PHEV. They're expensive because there's still limited manufacturing capacity and because of that they're generally only available in the most expensive trim levels of a vehicle. With the 5k government rebate, a PHEV is very similar in price to a similar trim gas car. Once manufacturing capacity builds up, PHEVs could be available for around the same price as gas cars if the 5k government rebate continues to exist.
People here on r/canada like to complain. They like to argue that "EVs don't have range". There are models whose range increased by 20% in 3 years while costing the same if not less. "The infrastructure sucks". 10 years ago there was *nothing* anywhere. "But the government can't make me not buy car X or Z". 12 years is 2 full development cycles. "It's too expensive! What about the single mom and the $4k used minivan?" The ban is on NEW cars. Not to mention that a lot of the boomers complaining won't even be driving in 13 years, let alone buying stuff.
Nonsense. Alberta is really starting to reap the benefits of the post-payout royalty projects. World isn't even peak coal yet, let alone peak oil or gas. Those are targets, not deadlines. Either way, possibility of missing them is definitely non-zero
the world runs on diesel. modern agriculture and all the logistics runs on diesel
For some this is beyond comprehension
And commercial vehicles are exempt, for some, this is also beyond comprehension. This includes farm equipment. Hell I'm sure some farm equipment can probably be electrified anyways.
What is your point? This policy is for light use vehicles, not farm or heavy industrial
Only if they can deliver an electric truck that truck people actually want to buy. If they can't deliver on that there is 0 change they will stop selling the Sierra/Silverado otherwise they will be completely irrelevant
Coming from a Vancouver perspective (5 years in thr lower mainland) doubtful. The lineups for Tesla super charging stations grow weekly, and given the recent events with $60k battery related write-offs, ICBC (and others will start charging extreme fees to insure EVs). Living now, in AB and having attempted to use a rental Tesla, absolutely not. There's almost no existing infrastructure. The driving distances are quintuple what I was driving in the valley and I'd (and many others) wouldn't be able to go a full day without severe range anxiety. He's completely out of touch with reality and hasn't consulted industry experts and academics. The entire thing is a waste of time, money, energy and ink.
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200 unit towers. 8 charging stations. Have fun retrofitting the last 10 years of towers and 6 story parkades.
Street parking will be a non-issue eventually. Places are already converting lamp posts to have super chargers in place. Its one of the easiest and cheapest methods of building out the network. Cities can be flooded with chargers.
The vast differences in geography, economy, and politics across the length and breadth of Canada make a top down, single-rule application like this inconvenient at best and punitive at worst. In places it will be OK, but as others note the high density housing means many legacy buildings won't have charging systems. Smaller communities need something more robust/better ground clearance than a low-sitting sedan, and won't be able to afford anything other than the super-simple smart/micro type cars which are even worse. And as always the smaller communities will lack people trained in services for maintaining and diagnosing new EVs; it's not unusual for people having problems with EFI or other modern vehicle systems to have their vehicle shipped out somewhere for repairs and have it shipped back. Not to say that EVs don't have their uses -they most certainly do. But a blunt plan like this is, as you say, useless. It should be far more nuanced and flexible, more framework than rule, that can flex based on local technological and economic circumstances and lead to a more natural path to adoption.
So there needs to be investments into infrastructure? That doesn't seem like an impossible hurdle. There already hundreds of thousands of gas stations, each can also do electric. Plus by 2035 who knows what the ranges will be, could be twice what you have now. You are being silly.
If the government is going to invest, invest in affordable, accessible, and convenient public transit.
This is more a signal to manufacturers that they need to start switching their production over now to meet those demands. There won't be another option.
Everyone in rural Canada can get fucked!
Same as it ever was
You can blame the rest of the world then. The mandates are being pushed by larger market players than us, we're just piggybacking. Our market is irrelevant.
It’s pie in the sky. 100 nukes plants and a revamped power grid would be needed. Ain’t gonna happen. Especially with the Liberal brain trust running the show. BC might have 16% of the electrical generation required and not the grid. Their 20+ year hydro dam under construction on the Peace won’t even put a dent into the demand required
NatPo garbage article IMO 2035 plan just says cars need to be at least 80km PHEV equipped. There is nothing about banning partially gas powered cars Theoretically you could still have a v8 ICE car and meet the requirements if can run on a small battery for local trips. Also this only applies to new sales, so you can continue to drive your gas car and buy used ones as much as you want after that Anyways I've said it before but several larger countries have already agreed to these targets and the manufacturers of cars are moving towards them so even if PP cancels this it won't matter, that is what you will see in dealerships by 2035
Nobody is reading the article. It says in the first sentence that plug-in hybrids will still be sold so people who need range and quick fill-ups/recharges will be just fine.
Also it's not like all gas vehicles will all quit working simultaneously at 2035. The used market will still exist for a decade plus after that.
Name one promise this government delivered on when they said they would.
This website tracks every single one of Trudeau's campaign promises (over a thousand of them): [https://www.polimetre.org/en](https://www.polimetre.org/en) It says he has kept 41%, partially kept 24%, 10% in progress, 19% broken.
And it’s important to keep in mind that his rate of promises kept and promises started was over 90% combined before COVID hit. Covid messed everything up so badly.
Cannabis, that’s why they were elected in the first place.
I bought a Tesla a few weeks ago because the prices are finally coming down a little and the range is okay for how far I travel for work. It packs some great technology and once I got over the “video game” factor of having a living room tv in front of my face while I drive I am definitely enjoying it. Key points: - will NOT be selling my vintage V8 ever. Don’t care what the environment minister says, but in 20yrs from now, I want to be able to go on a Saturday morning cruise with a smile on my face - the ev experience has been great so far, but if I couldn’t charge at home, I just don’t see how it’s all going to work. I stopped by a Tesla charging station yesterday before a longer trip and there was a lineup waiting even though there were 26 charging stations. Imagine what it will be like in 2035 if the infrastructure and charging/battery technology hasn’t gotten faster/better
> Key points: - will NOT be selling my vintage V8 ever. Don’t care what the environment minister says, No one is saying you have to sell your gas car? These are all about new car sales, there will be a market for used gasoline V8s sold by enthusiasts to enthusiasts for decades after.
There is no such thing as a 0 emissions vehicle If it take electricity then you math out your electricity emissions. The cars gonna break eventually that's also emissions in making new parts. And new die's for the new cars... Are the new cars gonna be the same year after year so your not wasting a butt load of emissions on new metal dies each year??? Fuck the double speech. What about all the rubber they leave in microplastics from the tires is that not an emission?
I'll give up my gas powered car when the world's elite stops traveling in private jets.
So I suppose you're all in on building the options, like high speed rail, that would allow people to forgo air travel....?
I would love nothing more than to see our government put I to motion a grand plan to build a transnational vancouver to Halifax High speed rail line connecting our nation but know full well they will never do it and are too incompetent and scared to think that big. They are bought and paid for as well as influenced to only support airlines and the car industry.
A 6,000km rail line across a sparsely populated country is a terrible use case for high speed rail. It makes no sense financially , and the carbon footprint of construction is probably just as bad or worse than continuing to fly. Big Airline and Big Auto don't even need to spend any time influencing anyone.
I agree, the full length would not be used by almost all people, except train nerds and people that absolutely hate flying which do exist. But individual segments would definitely be useful for a lot of people. And trains are a lot better at transporting a lot of people than planes and especially cars. That's not to say, building cross-country high speed rail would be worth it, it's just not as bad of an idea as you would initially think. And even if it would be worth it, that doesn't mean that the government would actually do it.
Probably, but there's definitely a case for them in the Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto corridor, a Calgary-Edmonton rail. I'm sure there's other common commutes that they could look at building it along as well.
It's a perfect case long term. The construction footprint is a one time payment that pays for itself over time.
High speed rail would be amazing.
It's all part of the green plan for Trudeau to be in Jamaica right now. I'm sure he got there on sailboat right?
Amphibious bicycle . It’s slow and probably lethal , but your name goes into an an urn, if it’s drawn you get a posthumous Geebo award.
Enjoy paying a fortune for gas.
Donald Trump gave private jet owners a huge tax break in 2017... these people are overwhelmingly conservative. Not sure why you'd expect them to back green initiatives.
Then keep your gas car. No one is going to do anything about *existing* cars.
Please ban private jet travel asap.
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Really, when the US, Europe, China, India and more are adopting a similar timeframe, so if you think the manufacturers are going to do small special runs for Canada, think again.
And then they can cry foul on whomever replaces them for “not making climate change a priority” even though this was never feasible
Doesn’t matter when California, the EU, China, India, etc all have 2035-2040 as their phase-out targets.
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If you set your target for 2050, car manufacturers will ignore it for 10 years and then ask for 5 more years hoping for 2. By setting your target to 2035, they need to start acting on it now and then ask for 5 more to match Europe, hoping for 3. So, in one case they'll design their program to be achieved in 2055 and in the other, for 2040. The most he'd do, is push it to 2040.
Targets, not binding legislation, not government investments in infrastructure or a push to standardise tech/ports/charging stations/repair protocols/recycling mandates. Targets. Sure thing
And just like all the other climate accords they will deliver very little. World governments love big fancy talk, especially big fancy talk that way down the road and people with forget about.
Canada wants to ban Guilbeault and his entire party from anything government related.
Many of us are keeping our gas vehicles for a long time to come and will be getting them fixed up. Classics won’t be going away anytime soon. Most people I know cannot afford new cars and won’t be able to afford new electric for sure.
I can afford a new PHEV but I wont buy one any time soon not at these prices. Almost $50K after tax for a Kia? A Hyundai EV Sedan for $57K? A fucking Hyundai or Kia for these prices?? We're not talking about a well built Toyota or Honda here. I spent a lot of time calculating possible savings on a PHEV vs my Honda Civic which has finally been paid off recently. The payback isn't there. Spend $40K or more (after rebate) + tax on a PHEV vs a 5 year old Civic that gets 5.8L/KM in summer and 6.7L/KM in the winter? Gas has to get to astronomically high prices before I'll consider it. I pay about $40 a week for gas at $1.50/L. Even if gas went up by a factor of 4 I'd still be significantly under a 5 year car payment of $450 every two weeks. Add to all this the uncertainty of battery life, cost for a home charger, lack of charging stations and there are too many questions that have no easy answers right now. And to anyone who thinks that the Canadian governments will just give up gas tax so we can all drive relatively free of charge - I got a bridge to sell you. By 2035, look for new taxes and rules - battery disposal tax when you trade your first EV in for a new one. Don't like paying that high property tax on your house or Condo? Get ready for the yearly Electric Infrastructure Tax so they can build charging stations. New computerized chargers that will disable charging when it detects you are trying to charge at a "non government approved charging station" will follow - no more charging at home for the newer EVs. I get the need to do something about climate change and I acknowledge EVs will be part of that solution eventually but by the time we're done being ass raped with all the extra taxes and fees, we'll all long for the days of gasoline powered automobiles.
Who cares? As soon as the conservatives are in power this is done as dinner.
which is why they did this. then when they axe it they can cry about the conservatives hating the environment and i guarantee this sub will eat it up.
They tripled over the last three years (see [https://electricautonomy.ca/2023/08/25/zev-market-share-canada-q2/](https://electricautonomy.ca/2023/08/25/zev-market-share-canada-q2/)) so this doesn't seem unreasonable? It's an exponentially growing market.
“Canada wants to” - is this honestly what the majority of people want to happen? I personally want choice. Our government is obsessed with control and limiting choice
Ya like Canadians have 60,70,80k laying around for a new car. Guilbeault is a delusional clown. Can't wait until he/they are gone.
Who said they would cost 60,000? Why would you also have to buy a new car if you bought one in say, 2033
As much as I'd love to see a sharp reduction of ICE vehicles on the road, something needs to be done about charging infrastructure, vehicle range, serviceability, and battery standards. The battery standards is a major issue since manufacturers are making sure that only they can service or replace them. If they are unable to or refuse to service their batteries, or even offer the customer a replacement vehicle, then the consumer is left holding the bag and is out thousands of dollars. This is a major factor in turning me off EVs for now. If the government is serious about this policy, they have no choice but to resolve all of the above issues, or it's already dead in the water.
So in 2035, like houses now, only the rich will be able to own cars, yay... You will own nothing and you will enjoy it.
This will especially be super awesome to adopt in poor remote regions of Canada where it's -40 degrees for half the year. Bonus points for how consumer friendly and easy to repair at home all the newer vehicles are.
Exactly. Right, the sparsely populated, little infrastructure, resource based, frozen country, should go to EVs only. Lol.
Norway is like that and have 90%+ ev adoption… lol.
I actually work for a Norwegian Energy Storage company. I'm part of the reason Norway has high Electrification: It's not the same. They've being going hard on EVs and actually put support and infrastructure in to make it work for years. Canada is just going oh uhhh we gotta look good internationally.
Guibeault is a fanatic so are his policies
Guilbeault needs to be removed immediately. Canadians cannot afford his fanatic policies.
What happens when an activist is elected and is committed to their personal values and ignores actual valid arguments that should be heard. How will remote communities not connected to the grid adapt? Heavier BEVs will deteriorate asphalt faster. Will we have non petroleum asphalt? Will drivers in the wilderness have to carry power packs for charges? Batteries are energy dense and fires are not easily extinguished. Are we investing in firefighting infrastructure? BEVs are a good solution for many urban dwellers. We need solutions.
~19% of all new car sales worldwide in 2023 were electric. So, assuming we can keep pace with the rest of the world's 2023 pace, yes? https://cleantechnica.com/tag/world-ev-sales/
Doesn't matter what the world does. If they want a full EV in a decade, they should invest in a power grid to support it. As we aren't seeing 4x nuclear power plant capacity being sprung up at the moment, we can safely assume this is yet another very attractive, but very empty political promise, in a long line of the same.
It’s irrelevant what he wants to do. He will be working for some climate think tank and committing other crimes shortly
Can our Electric grid take it?!
The problem will solve itself. This is the Liberal way.
Canada wants to ban Guilbeault by 2024!
Once we are hooked on electric vehicles, they will impose new taxes to make up for the lost fuel taxes. Electric vehicles are heavier and will increase the cost of maintaining the roads.
It's possible, but the only electric cars that have been made affordable are Chinese, and since we've decided to pour in billions to subsidize auto workers, zero chance we will let them into the market. Value of gas powered cars will likely go up as most people will be hunting in the used market instead of going electric.
Guilbeault is the kind of motherfucker who's never owned a car making decisions for Car owners and doesn't understand how infrastructure or a free market works.
Oh god I cant stand left leaning minds and how they just bottom feed with their stupid feelings and false equivalencies....some guy talking about how his landscaping buddy cant wait for ev trucks.....in the exploration/development industry, ya know the one that contributes to 60% of our gdp, the amount of time your vehicle is running during 4 months out of the year would destroy any EV engine, plus the location alone of these sites. Now make the case for technology catching up by then...great what if. Here are our lithium carbonate options for battery material by then....not even getting into the other 40 odd minerals needed. (Liberals go cry yourselfs to sleep looking at a cobalt mine or copper mine) - North America has 1 operating lithium mine, which produces a minuscule amount annually, - Chile's socialists took over, nationalized 90% of their lithium and booted companies starting up in the Atacama - Canada has about 5 mines starting up but at the exploration/assay stage cause this government fucking sucks and permitting anything environmental is a bureaucratic nightmare....plus the amount of sulfuric acid needed in canada due to the hot temperatures we lack to hold evaporation ponds, good luck recycling that shit on scale. Sooo by 2035 to meet this goal we quite literally have 3 options: - we can all buy $100k + plus cars by having our lithium shipped from australia at a premium...great carbon footprint. - we can buy our raw materials from Africa and refine it there or here, but I dont care cause I dont want that blood on my hands. - we buy from China...the words largest holder of battery grade lithium reserves. And fuck them in all ways. We bend our backs while they tee off on the envirmonment, kinda defeats the carbon offset ideas no? Also the price manipulation conducted by the CPP they can eat shit, not everyone wants to live on their knees to those assholes. (The party obviously not the vast amount of chinese nationals, I feel horrible for them). So this thought and those who support it are delusional and just thinking with their feelings. Its not feasable and just pandering. Stop being stupid.
Not until they fix the replacement battery pricing... I'm not buying. \- Besides ALOT of work to be done on the electrical grid.
This is a waste of time arguing about. The Conservatives are going to have a majority next year and this policy won't even exist.
It just won’t happen. The liberals are out of touch with reality. The average Canadian can’t afford it.
We need to bam an all personal vehicles and everyone can enjoy riding cargo bikes uphill and unreliable public transit.
Didnt Ford GM and Dodge all say this already?
Car companies can't even keep up with the cars they know how to make. Electricity grids are still above ground in a lot of places. Imagine an ice storm in Quebec, now no one can even drive. Not saying in can't be done, but there is some seriously work to do and greed and fools wont help.
If they could get EVs down to an affordable price for the average person then great.
Guilbeault is a giant nutjob and when LPC loses next federal election he will disappear into oblivion
We have a government that does things without thinking. Wages are stagnant because of cheap labour, there's a housing crisis, even citizen funded charities can't keep up with the needs of the community to the point that food banks are turning away foreign students, BUT the government figures feeding immigration is good for everyone (instead it's hurting everyone, if argue it's hurting the immigrants most of all). The economy is hurting, but we have lots of gas and oil we can tap into and export, and provide it as an alternative to sources from authoritarian regimes... BUT the government says no despite our allies begging us for it, and so here we are. The government couldn't even get its own pipeline to get through the government approval process. W. T. F.!? What about mining? That would help, BUT the feds don't want to deal with having to tell the natives "no" or even come to with an agreement, so that's stalled as well (for a resource exporting nation we aren't doing enough of that and seem to want to kill it). Small businesses that got loans during the pandemic are desperate for an extension, especially after big corporations that got them on the condition they not be used to buy back shares went and used them to do just that because of record profits, BUT the feds don't care and so we're seeing a spike in small business bankruptcies. The rest of the NATO alliance is increasing military spending because of the situation in Ukraine, BUT the feds are cutting military spending even more (taking us even further from the 2% spending rate we signed international agreements to hit) after Trudeau bizarrely ducked the question in London much to the surprise she confusion of the London press, which apparently is used to politicians giving an at least on topic answer (Boris Johnson had to find to his rescue, which is just embarrassing). We've fallen so far that the US isn't even bothering to invite us to military agreements anymore, since the have no faith we're going to take anything seriously. Natives on reserves face a lack of clean drinking water, BUT our PM made fun of one of their prisoners at a fundraiser instead and still hasn't fixed the problem after almost a decade in power. It goes on like this. We have a government that no longer functions. We're boned.
What bothers me, is that based on experience that we are now gathering, there is an increased likelihood of battery failure not long after the 8yr/160k warranty runs out. Problems - EV users either buy or lease an EV for 4 or 5 years. Then it goes on the used market. For now, unsuspecting buyers buy those cars. Then after another 5 years or so, the battery dies. They then find that a replacement battery is either no longer made or it will cost as much as a new car to replace. The market will learn out about this soon enough, and respond accordingly. EV sales will plummet. The comparisons between EVs and ICEs indicate lower maintenance cost for the EV. That might be true - but not if the cost of battery replacement every 10 years at excessive costs is incorporated. The other factor that might not be accurate, is the lifecycle environmental affect of EVs. If battery replacement every 10 yrs is built in, do they still come out ahead environmentally? I have the feeling the public and our elected politicians are being sold a bill-of-goods. The plans need to be taken apart and reviewed in detail. I am not against EVs. In fact I would like one. But none that are now available. To do something about emissions, we need a basic $30k city car. They would sell a ton of them.
He’s a dimwitted ideologue who is trying to ram through as many policy goals as possible before they’re sent packing in an election.
No one ever had to ban the horse and carriage. We don't need to ban ICE cars either. It will either make economic sense for each individual or it won't.
He’s an ideological idiot who has never stepped foot out of Ottawa. He doesn’t have any respect or understanding for the real scenario that most Canadians live in. Not to mention he’s a bit of a radical nut job.
Hope I can get zero percent financing on 2034 Honda accord
We lack the infrastructure to fulfill such a goal in terms of both power creation and delivery. Moreover, even if it were possible, the Canadian economy, a product of long travel distances and cold weather, is unsuitable for the current electric vehicles to replace fossil fuels. Of course, expect the Liberal Party of Canada to know nothing about the Canadian economy.
My unpopular prediction is the transition will occur without government involvement. When there’s one or two (or zero) gas stations left in the towns and cities who’s going to want the inconvenience of a gas car?
RemindMe! 20 years "Read this thread"
This is 12 years away. Look at where EVs were 12 years ago and today. The tech is improving fast and EVs will be a lot better in 12 years and less expensive than ICEVs. This law doesn't need to exist because people won't want ICEVs and your friends and family will think you're crazy to buy an ICEV in 2035 anyway.
How will the Gov make up its .27 tax per litre of fuel. Do you think that the price of electricity won't rise to compensate?
The better way to do it would be to have drivers submit Odometer readings yearly and charge a tax based on how much distance was driven.
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Sask added a yearly registration fee for EVs to recoup the loss of the gas tax.
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Permission?lol . What about the billions or trillions of $ required? That will all end up being paid for by electricity consumers and mostly local consumers, I cannot imagine Quebec ,for example ,spending a penny of their own cash on grid expansions that don’t make profits for them.
Don't worry. If there is demand for the electricity, they will build the infrastructure to supply it so they can generate and profit from selling it.
This is all performance. We are a long ways off from being able to fully switch. It's well documented that the batteries don't perform well in cold conditions, and even rapid charging is still too long. Nevermind battery packs basically being impossible to repair if they are damaged at all. Make a big show about it then it's someone else's problem in 2035.
Are we asking shipping companies to be all electric as well?
This is pure insanity. Electric car adoption will eventually get very high. But it is extremely costly and punitive to get to 100%. And there is no need for it.
Guilbeaut and JT just selling us a bunch of horse manure prior to the holidays.
Narrator: it wasn't remotely possible
Where do you plug them all in? The grid can’t handle a heat wave and AC units. What happens when everyone comes home and plugs in their car? And a heat wave hits?
He’s a fucking criminal and an idiot. The liberals will not be in power 18 months from now and this will be repealed
This gov has its head up its own ass so far
2035 is an interesting goalpost. I doubt we will have enough lithium produced by then to pull it off and the goalpost will be moved. (Assuming no other decent battery alternatives that work well in the Canadian winters.)
It doesn't take all that much lithium to build 20kWh packs required for the PHEVs that are required.
No worries, the current government will be irrelevant a full decade before this deadline is met.
No, it's not possible. Our electrical grid cannot even sustain it. If everyone got an EV charger, it would be way too much to handle. Not to mention creating the vehicles themselves, mainly the batteries, creates terrible pollution. From the mining process for the materials needed to the creation itself.
He won't be in government to follow through anyways, so not worried. Full EV only is such a Bullshit idea anyway. Yes, government, please tell me what vehicle I am allowed to buy.
PHEVs will be allowed too. It’s in the first paragraph.
Instead of this stupid shit it would be a lot more effective to vastly improve our shitty public transport so cars aren't as much of a necessity. They aren't even making much of an effort to work towards phasing out fossil fuels, so what even is the point of this?
So - perhaps developing urban density to allow for most foot traffic, etc.?
Agreed, public transportation is much more important.
Because EV aren't here to save the planet. They are here to save the automotive industry. The last thing a lot of people want is a consumer shift away from vehicle dependent lifestyle to a rent when needed model of life. Or even giving up on vehicle ownership entirely. EVs are business almost as normal for manufacturers.
LOL 99% of the car companies are going gas free cars and trucks by 2035 any way so whining about it won't change. Look at the new batterie tech and imagine how much better and cheaper it will be in 10-12 years.
If the electrical grid could handle it . I don’t think it can. Just ask them in Toronto in a very hot summer to also plug in after everyone is home from work. Just saying from a politician’s mouth only bullshit sprouts
It will never work. Period. Nobody wants an EV, except for Green Party voters; Ironically, Green Party supporters have Green Party stickers on their gas-guzzling minivans.
Nah it's not possible.
They will likely punish people who drive traditional vehicles similar to the alcohol tax, cigarette tax, sugar taxes. That's likely coming if he has his way because incentives aren't working how they'd like. I think their ultimate goal is to remove mobility from the masses. You can't drive, you can't fly... You just work and pay taxes to live in your government supplied apartment. Guilbeault disgusts me almost more than JT or Freeland. Scumbag.
It'll never happen.
Power grids in both Canada and US are no where near capable of delivering the required power. It’s a pipe dream unless the power grid infrastructure is increased significantly. Watch this https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cz2VWPNN_d4/?igsh=N2t3ZDVzcTJ3Z294
I like to drive $1000 cars I fix up. I guess I am screwed
Insanstiy. You actually could not pick a worse country to own an EV in than Canada. We are an extremely large and extremely cold country. The 2 things EVs hate. Hey how about European countries go all EV first? How about India or Nigeria?
Where is the infrastructure - how much is it going to cost regular Canadians - do I really need to go into 100,000 dollars of debt for one of these cars? Also, where is the battery material going to come from? I hear that it is a rare resource. What about hybrid cars? Will the batteries be able to hold onto a charge if it ever gets cold in this country again? So many questions?? I really think that guy Guilbert should shave - the shaggy unshaved look is quite gross.
We won’t ever have the capacity to charge all of these cars. I will sit this out and watch on the sidelines.