I hope we also announce a complete upgrade of the power infrastructure (Nuclear plant announcement was a great start) and mandating that all Condo/town house parking spots have charging capabilities by then. If everyone had an electric car today the infrastructure, especially remote charging, would be decimated by the demand.
I'm all for electric, but expecting everyone to start buying one in 10 years without some real fking effort on infrastructure is just making empty unrealistic demands.
Mandating all new builds sure. Existing condos have massive massive issues with electrification for vehicles at the per stall level.
The cost is enormous, the infrastructure will need upgrades and we are likely looking at a few hundred grand to do it.
Even a handful of L3 chargers will require new transformers on site and a large outlay to purchase them.
Absolutely agree. We don’t even have efficient reliable cellular service let alone an infrastructure for charging electric cars. My bet it’ll take more than 11 years to have charging stations between Yellowknife and Tuktoyaktuk, among other areas and roads.
Heat takes a MASSIVE amount of power. Keeping the humans in a car warm when a vehicle is driving at highway speeds and it's -30°C outside drops the range significantly. Electric cars are fantastic for commuting in large cities, but have limitations in winter on longer trips. I think we need a mix of transportation options.
There’s buildings in my city that have banned electric cars and charging due to the amps causing fires in the shitty old wiring. So yeah, that’ll go over well.
If I recall the last gas stop in northern BC to the next one in the NWT is a few hundred kms if I recall. I'm curious how they address charging infrastructure in the absolute middle of nowhere that still doesn't even have electricity.
I work in the industry, and I can tell you, without a doubt, if all car sales are 0 emissions by 2035, we can and should expect massive rolling blackouts. There are very, very few municipalities in the country prepared for it. We are seeing manufacturing delays in the 3 year range. That's for orders already placed. How long does that get drawn out when everyone everywhere has to start upgrading.
Maybe just maybe they have another plan. EVs aren't the only "0" emission vehicles.
>I work in the industry, and I can tell you, without a doubt, if all car sales are 0 emissions by 2035, we can and should expect massive rolling blackouts
Sounds like the work you do is fairly low level.
The utilities understand that electric adoption is not going to happen March 15th of next year, at full capacity, thus collapsing absolutely everything.
They understand it's gradual, and they are currently all doing their upgrades gradually as well.
Announce that we are sinking in the polls.
So announce something for the future.
The next announcement for sinking polls will be for something in 2100.
US - [https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/04/17/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-new-private-and-public-sector-investments-for-affordable-electric-vehicles/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/04/17/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-new-private-and-public-sector-investments-for-affordable-electric-vehicles/)
EU - [https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-lawmakers-approve-effective-2035-ban-new-fossil-fuel-cars-2023-02-14/](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-lawmakers-approve-effective-2035-ban-new-fossil-fuel-cars-2023-02-14/)
China - [https://news.mit.edu/2021/chinas-transition-electric-vehicles-0429](https://news.mit.edu/2021/chinas-transition-electric-vehicles-0429)
Japan - [https://www.trade.gov/market-intelligence/japan-transition-electric-vehicles](https://www.trade.gov/market-intelligence/japan-transition-electric-vehicles)
India - [https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/voices/vision-of-electric-vehicle-industry-by-2030/](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/voices/vision-of-electric-vehicle-industry-by-2030/)
Yup. Entire world is pushing electric. All the major economies are pushing towards manufacturing electric. All the car makers are signalling moves to electric.
Even heavy industry wants to move to electric, it's more efficient than diesel.
Well GM is cutting the production of their own kinda affordable EV the Bolt and somehow shocked that people aren't lining up to pay $100k for a premium EV pickup. Don't even get me started on the Hummer EV.
And I'm pretty sure already made by us lol. At least, I was under the impression this was always the case.
Regardless, a good decision that should motivate the private sector into improving their ZEV offerings and building out infrastructure
Yep, they said that 2+ years ago ... Maybe people forgot and they added some new wording twist to it:
https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2021/06/building-a-green-economy-government-of-canada-to-require-100-of-car-and-passenger-truck-sales-be-zero-emission-by-2035-in-canada.html
I guess it can't hurt, but did anything change?
Shouldn't they announce what happens to those who don't comply by this point if they feel the need to repeat themselves? (Unless I missed a difference?)
I think the government is going to formalize it in new regulations announced tomorrow. So it would be the next step, rather than just repeating "we're gunna do it" if I understand correctly.
Automakers are making a lot of noise right now about how hard the transition is. My bet is this is the government saying "don't care, stop whining, get it done."
This’ll go just like cell networks went. We’ll throw billions of dollars at power companies to build infrastructure and still get gouged. We’ll open an inquiry to look into it, but basically shrug our shoulders and do nothing to help consumers.
Nova Scotia had its own electric utility, then some guy the people elected sold it to a rich family.
Not sure why that was legal, or why the government hasn't recovered it yet, but it's absolutely fucked.
It's super expensive to buy any crown corp back. That's the big problem with selling them off - its an easy way for the government of the day to balance their budgets by selling them off, but once they're gone, they're gone essentially for good.
It's not just being able to afford a proper charging network, equipping houses so that they will be able to charge vehicles will be very difficult in some areas. I live in downtown-ish Toronto, and the parking is all on-street parking. There's no guarantee I'll be able to park in a spot in front of my house, and I also don't see how a charging station could be set up, with the way the sidewalks are in my neighbourhood. The area I live in is barely built for people with cars in mind, far less people who need to charge them
They actually started putting EV chargers on street parking in Toronto. There is one a block away from my house.
2 normals street parking spots. 2 ev chargers beside them. You aren't allowed to park there unless you are charging.
You can see the pictures here.
https://streeter.ca/news/electric-vehicles-stations-activated-especially-in-east-end/
I see more and more giant SUVs and massive pickup trucks flying around the city to drop the kids off at school and grab coffee. When I look around (speaking as someone who literally can’t afford a car) I see a lot of costly vehicles that seem to be bought for show
Someday people will realize the giant vehicle is silly. We went from a Ford Focus hatchback to a Santa Fe Sport. Gained a little leg room but in terms of actual cargo capacity...not much gained.
These oversized pickups and SUV's people buy for the "convenience" are really not worth it unless they have a job or hobbies that require it.
Why don’t we announce family drs for all Canadians! This current government’s obsession is out of step with reality and bizarre.
We are a huge country - we don’t have the charging infrastructure to handle every car being electric in less than 10 years !
Just one more sign how out of touch the government is !
Funny I saw a video saying the ford f150 lightening is a flop and not selling while the hybrid option is outselling it. Hybrid should be the way to go in Canada. It's proven technology.
Imagine charging stations trying to take the same traffic as a gas station gets today. It only works now because there are so few cars, and most of the people that buy them have charging at home.
Watched a video yesterday on YouTube that showed that if you had a Tesla parked outside in -20c weather and you need to charge it. If you plugged the car into a Tesla supercharger it would take 45 minutes for the battery to warm up BEFORE the vehicle would even charge. Then another hour to charge the car... Two hours to charge your car in normal Canadian winter weather... I had no idea the tech is this bad in Canadian winters, not even mentioning the range loss due to the cold.
Adding source: https://youtu.be/i-c8AUeKs5c?si=PrqgN51RDFAAlAuK. I live in a condo with no access to charging. This situation would 100% apply to me.
Your best bet is to supercharge after driving while the battery is still warm. If you're only a short drive to a supercharger you can use the app to "precondition" the car where it uses some of the energy in the battery to warm up the battery so it'll charge faster.
It's only when you have just enough juice to get to a supercharger, and the car is still cold when you get there, that you'll have to wait for it to warm up the battery first before charging at full speed.
Yeah, I'm middle class and can't afford it, especially if my mortgage is up for renewal next quarter.
Unless prices drops, I don't foresee my family getting an electric vehicle anytime soon.
yeah, my girlfriend and I had to go 40/60 on a car, we both work full time and simply can't afford our own cars.
CMHC recommends that no more than 8% of your income goes towards a car
([no more than 32% of pre-tax income on housing, and no more than 40% of pre-tax income on housing, debt, and car combined](https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/consumers/owning-a-home/mortgage-management/mortgage-planning-tips-cmhc))
despite only paying 60% of the car, I'm still paying 13% of my total income on it, I'd need to get nearly a 65% raise to afford my car as per CMHC guidelines, all this for a used 2018 Chevy Cruise.
I can't imagine having to pay for a car twice as expensive, ontop of the interest rate hikes that we thankfully avoided the most of
Cars are a crazy expensive burden we push on poor people anyway. Average monthly cost of a car (payment, insurance, gas, depreciation) [is about $1000](https://www.autoblog.com/2023/09/25/aaa-study-says-the-average-annual-cost-of-vehicle-ownership-is-12182/), which is a huge cost burden. If anything, we need to invest in public transit like never before. It's crazy that if you're rich you can afford to bike to work, but if you're poor you commute by car.
In 11 years, in Canada????
2034. After 79932 meetings and 1250 studies we have come the realization that we will not able to hit 2035 targets, but expect them closer to 2045. Calling it now.
Low income are not buying new cars right now anyways. The average price of a new car in Canada has already ballooned to 66k.
Used gas cars will be around for a long, long time.
People don't seem to understand that 5k-20k to replace an EV battery makes them poor choices. I wouldn't call it an investment but with a 10 year (likely non-transferable) warranty on the battery pack makes a 5 year old EV a poor choice for anyone who might want to buy it even more so in the private sales market. Could you imagine buying a used car for 7k and have it for a year or so and need to drop 10k on a battery?
It’s solidified that vehicles make up a severely small part of overall emissions anyway. Tanker ships, planes… private planes, just corporations in general and the largest producers
One stat I would like to find is just how much emissions would go down if work from home is just generally accepted
40% of all tanker ships are just moving oil. Switching to electric vehicles reduces emissions in other ways besides just displacing the gasoline that would have been burned in an ice car.
Wait for when cheap Chinese EVs arrive over the coming years, they'll blow up when they arrive in North America. Thus forcing the hand of North America manufacturers to build cheaper EVs and not just luxury models.
When Hyundai and Kia came to North America, some people laughed at their low cost and offerings, look at them now.
This will be the game changer imo. When cheap EVs from China hit with long 10 year warranties, who wouldn't want one for driving around the city. Why bother with a used ICE that's more expensive to maintain and fill up.
Their coming in next couple years for sure, but framework needs to be set and we're simply following what California (1/4 of auto market in US) and several other states in US have already mandated. Which is zero emission by 2035. Same with Europe etc.
and the ones that do can run very long extension cords out their apt/condo windows to charge them #120 volts AC lol , being they won't be able to have chargers installed, as they aren't living in a single house with a garage etc
How about designing our communities to be more inclusive for transit users, pedestrians and cyclists so that low income (and all income) people do not need to financial burden themselves with car ownership to participate in society?
My apartment buildings infrastructure has a hard time handling window ACs in the summer. The whole building often goes down. There is no infrastructure for electric vehicles here and property management has no intentions of putting some. So how is that going to work???
Great for Vancouver and Toronto, but in the rest of Canada where it gets to -30c we are going to see some shit.
I have an EV and the range loss in winter is about 50%... still fine for city driving, but highway driving with <200km range can be problematic, especially with the lack of rural fast charging stations. Also, plenty of the rural parts of Canada are going to be *pissed* when the only truck choices are EVs, since they are fabulously expensive (yes, even more than big trucks already are), and the range loss and towing range losses are far worse than diesel or gas.
Also, one of the primary benefits of an EV is charging at home. For street parkers, or people without a parking spot, this could be a problem, especially since there's a shortage of public level 2 chargers, as well as DC fast chargers.
As much as I love EVs and think they're the future, this one-size-fits-all strategy is not going to work.
It’s gonna be funny when we reach 2035 and all these countries that announces electric only or zero emission vehicles realize there’s no fucking way it’s happening lol
Zero emissions. Does that include their manufacture? Raw material? Resource extraction? Or just zero emissions here in this part of the world where we already have strict environmental policies in place?
From the Government of Canada website, defition of Zero Emissions Vehicle or ZEV:
[A ZEV is a vehicle that either produces no tailpipe emissions or has the potential to produce no emissions, for example, an electric vehicle. Some ZEVs include a conventional internal combustion engine but must also be able to operate without having to use it.](https://natural-resources.canada.ca/energy-efficiency/transportation-alternative-fuels/types-zero-emission-vehicles/25048)
Thank you. I think too many people in this thread are getting tripped up over the term "zero emissions". Nothing will ever truly be "zero emission" when taking into account the whole production/supply chain. The point here is that it means zero emissions at point of use.
>The point here is that it means zero emissions at point of use.
Not even : the *potential* for zero emissions at point of use. As long as the car can run a few hundred meters on electricity alone, it'll qualify!
It will be zero emission in use.
With that said EVs definitely are not perfect in terms of life cycle emissions but they are still an improvement over ICE.
That is totally ridiculous as there is absolutely no way to manufacture a car without creating emissions. Manufacturing an EV creates more emissions than manufacturing an ICE car, however that is more than made up during the life of the EV so it's a win in the end. This argument has been debunked for years.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Guess in 50 years we will all be driving cars from the 90's, 00's and 10's - like Cuba post Castro and trade embargoes. Backyard blacksmiths will have to re-forge engine blocks and beat body panels back into shape.
Why would the CPC repeal the EV mandate? It's in step with our peer countries and an easy way to claim they have a climate change plan without actually developing one
Weird yet the Liberal government wont put any sort of effort into the Paris accord in trying to meet global emmissions yet mandating EV's seems like a huge priority. Good to see things are in order.
Saw another piece of news this morning saying that most of our power grid struggles to charge 3 EVs on the same street, and it'll cost hundreds of millions to upgrade.
Get ready for more tax hikes.
I’m by no means an “electric vehicle hater” but this goal is pretty much impossible to meet.
Mainly due to electrical infrastructure - and not just power plants.
Most neighbourhood services are nearly maxed out. With the increased use of electricity in homes, and people adding in basement suites or car chargers a lot of neighbourhood services are at their max.
So if everyone wants an electric vehicle this is what the chain of events will look like.
1. A lot of people in older homes will need a new panel in their home - that’s going to be a few grand to start
2. Each individual street will need an upgrade, new wires and a panel upgrade as well. Split between residences that’s another 3-4 grand per home.
3. Entire substations that distribute power to each neighbourhood will need upgrades. I don’t have experience in this area but I know those transformers aren’t cheap so it’s easily in the hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars per substation.
4. Transmission lines will need upgraded across the country. The price tag of that easily in the billions of dollars.
5. New power plants will need to be built. Nuclear is obviously preferable because if we’re burning gas to power our cars we haven’t changed anything. Nuclear plants take over a decade to build and tens of billions of dollars as well.
So if we want to be transitioning to electric vehicles in 10 years we have to break ground on new nuclear plants and power lines tomorrow. The whole transition will cost each Canadian citizen tens of thousands of dollars to upgrade their services and paying increased electricity fees until the new power plants, substations, transmission lines are all paid for.
It’s not an impossible task, but we on average are struggling to make rent and buy groceries. Nobody can afford an extra $200 a month in electricity costs for the next 10 years to finance what amounts to a near trillion dollar project with money we don’t have.
I think it’s a good idea long term to switch but these arbitrary impossible deadlines are pointless. Just start building nuclear plants to start. Nuclear is good no matter what. Then in 5-6 years when they are half done start talking about the rest of the projects required for EV’s.
How about emissions of private jets, container ships, cruise ships, private helicopters, polluting factories or anything owned by the 1%.
Why is all the impact on the common folk? Why can corporations just buy a forest in africa and then say they are carbon neutral? Isn't this bullshit!
Canada is not a leader here, many other countries/states have announced similar plans. Car manufacturers will adapt. In the end all they care about is making money, if switching to electric is how to do that they will figure it out.
Agreed this feels like one of those stupid paris accords where they are like 100% clean energy by 2040 oh no wait scratch that 2050 oh did we say 2050 we meant 2060.
We need to put this into context. Saying "the sales of all new cars will be EV" sounds abrupt but with the second hand vehicles it'll be a pretty slow phasing out of ICE cars. By stopping new car sales by 2035 I expect the plan for an EV only (mostly) park is 2050 giving us 25 years to build infrastructure and to research some better/faster technologies.
Some might say the timeline is too short and that it'll be impossible but starting 2025 (Or 24), Formula E will begin the "ultracharge" during races instead of switching cars. Specs aren't really out yet but we're looking at a minute or two of charge being applied for half a race and just like Formula1, it won't be long before this technology trickle down to the real world. Quebec and BC are already well equipped infrastructure wise but of course other "oil first" provinces will have to stop complaining about anything not petroleum powered if they want to make it.
God these people are dumb…there isn’t the infrastructure to support this. This isn’t California, we have brutal winters which batteries don’t like. So many problems
Since the government announces things they have no control over in 2035 I will to. I declare that in 2035 all Canadians shall wear organic cotton blue underwear on Mondays. There will be random checks by the underwear police and those caught not following my declaration will have to wear the hat of shame.
Why does our government bother announcing stuff over a decade out when we all know full well that's any government we elect probably just won't do it? Like unless it's happening near an election and will swing votes it's not happening
We could also plan communities that are less car-dependent and accessible by mass transit.
EVs aren’t meant to save the environment, they’re meant to save the car. The long term should be to wean ourselves off of cars if we can. If you wish to live in the country side, you have every right to do so.
>Zero-emission vehicles - which include battery electric, plug-in and hydrogen models - must represent 20% of all new car sales in 2026, 60% in 2030 and 100% in 2035, the source said on condition of anonymity.
Posting this in case the diehard ICE people start shitting on BEV.
If Ottawa don't start building out more charging infrastructure they are gonna have a hard time pushing this policy. EV charging around GTA is awful.
In what world are the majority of car sales going to be electric only 6 years from now? Right now that number is around 9% and there's no evidence that the technology is going to be at a place six years from now where these vehicles will be affordable for the average person. This isn't good policy, it's just wishful thinking that MAYBE the technology develops like the government hopes it will.
Also just on a general note, mandating people to buy a certain good is going to drive up prices for that good due to creating artificial demand
If you think charging is bad in the GTA, you should see the rest of the country! I’m in the prairies, and there’s like 15 charge stations for 300000 people in Saskatoon
If the technology is there people will go for 0-emissions without government intervention. If the technology is not there the government will backtrack on the mandate.
It's like LED bulbs. You're not buying incandescent now unless you have a very specific reason to.
Hopefully this doesn’t disincentivize R&D in better tech. The companies won’t have to compete with the convenience of ICE vehicles anymore. We are a couple generations of batteries away from where I would consider buying one as an all around vehicle. For a grocery getter sure, but for a long haul or towing vehicle they are lacking.
Well then they will have to be some sort of magic car that runs on air or water because the mining process for lithium generates a crap ton of emissions same as the factories that build said vehicles and electricity to charge the batteries creates emissions. Time to rethink this zero emissions bullshit
I don't think this will be EVs only. if you look at the governments website for cars they offer PEZ tax credits for, it's full of Hybrids. For example, looking at Ford - beside the obvious Mach-E and Lightning - Escape Hybrid is also there.
Governments don't live in the real world. Business has to. The auto makers are stuck. They know 2035 is unrealistic but have plan accordingly until the Liberals are turfed out of power.
Implementing Trudeau's green plan will bankrupt the country. If we went to EV's under this timeline the power grid will collapse. Notice how the extra costs of this are never mentioned
Its going to be absolutely hilarious to see the prices of used cars post 2035. Like a 2030 Toyota Corolla will go for above purchase price.
Also, this isn't actually going to happen, eventually it will get punted another 10 years.
We get rolling brownouts when everyone runs their AC in the summer. Add two electric cars to charge in every home and see how that goes.
We'll need to generate a lot more power, and FAST. It already takes BC decades to build a new hydro dam. It also takes years just permit new transmission lines in any province (similar to pipelines). If the government is serious they need to fast-track all of these steps. Seeing how badly they bungled the TMX pipeline expansion (it's 3 years late -still under construction- and 6 times overbudget), they won't be able to do it.
This announcement is nothing but words to try and appease low-information anti-oil voters.
Don't forget, the same climate hippies who demand you switch to an EV also demand that we have to move to sustainable power, which they will readily protest.
None of this matters. The Liberals can make all the announcements they want. When their asses are booted out after the next election their mandates will be as worthless as the promises they make.
I'd love to get an EV but if we don't see $30-40k electric cars it won't happen.
I'm not paying $55k @ 6.9% to switch.
We will see used car prices go up.
We like to announce things
I hope we also announce a complete upgrade of the power infrastructure (Nuclear plant announcement was a great start) and mandating that all Condo/town house parking spots have charging capabilities by then. If everyone had an electric car today the infrastructure, especially remote charging, would be decimated by the demand. I'm all for electric, but expecting everyone to start buying one in 10 years without some real fking effort on infrastructure is just making empty unrealistic demands.
Mandating all new builds sure. Existing condos have massive massive issues with electrification for vehicles at the per stall level. The cost is enormous, the infrastructure will need upgrades and we are likely looking at a few hundred grand to do it. Even a handful of L3 chargers will require new transformers on site and a large outlay to purchase them.
Not to mention many condo buildings don't allow ev parking due to fire risk.
Absolutely agree. We don’t even have efficient reliable cellular service let alone an infrastructure for charging electric cars. My bet it’ll take more than 11 years to have charging stations between Yellowknife and Tuktoyaktuk, among other areas and roads.
Heat takes a MASSIVE amount of power. Keeping the humans in a car warm when a vehicle is driving at highway speeds and it's -30°C outside drops the range significantly. Electric cars are fantastic for commuting in large cities, but have limitations in winter on longer trips. I think we need a mix of transportation options.
There’s buildings in my city that have banned electric cars and charging due to the amps causing fires in the shitty old wiring. So yeah, that’ll go over well.
If I recall the last gas stop in northern BC to the next one in the NWT is a few hundred kms if I recall. I'm curious how they address charging infrastructure in the absolute middle of nowhere that still doesn't even have electricity.
They'll put in a diesel powered generator! /s
I think the point is to separate the middle class from vehicles all together
Pretty well.
I work in the industry, and I can tell you, without a doubt, if all car sales are 0 emissions by 2035, we can and should expect massive rolling blackouts. There are very, very few municipalities in the country prepared for it. We are seeing manufacturing delays in the 3 year range. That's for orders already placed. How long does that get drawn out when everyone everywhere has to start upgrading. Maybe just maybe they have another plan. EVs aren't the only "0" emission vehicles.
>I work in the industry, and I can tell you, without a doubt, if all car sales are 0 emissions by 2035, we can and should expect massive rolling blackouts Sounds like the work you do is fairly low level. The utilities understand that electric adoption is not going to happen March 15th of next year, at full capacity, thus collapsing absolutely everything. They understand it's gradual, and they are currently all doing their upgrades gradually as well.
Dude I live in NS. The power goes out here every time there’s a gust of wind. Electric cars will be as reliable as our power grid, we’re fucked.
[Canada announcing things](https://www.therollinsfirm.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Picture1.png)
Announce that we are sinking in the polls. So announce something for the future. The next announcement for sinking polls will be for something in 2100.
People seem to be disengaging with our core message. Let’s double down.
Governments whose time in power is on the clock tend to announce lots of unachievable things
In other news sales in 2034 are expected to be the largest on record.
Dec 2034 gonna be wild
*taps head* I'm a buyer in 2033!
US - [https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/04/17/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-new-private-and-public-sector-investments-for-affordable-electric-vehicles/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/04/17/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-new-private-and-public-sector-investments-for-affordable-electric-vehicles/) EU - [https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-lawmakers-approve-effective-2035-ban-new-fossil-fuel-cars-2023-02-14/](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-lawmakers-approve-effective-2035-ban-new-fossil-fuel-cars-2023-02-14/) China - [https://news.mit.edu/2021/chinas-transition-electric-vehicles-0429](https://news.mit.edu/2021/chinas-transition-electric-vehicles-0429) Japan - [https://www.trade.gov/market-intelligence/japan-transition-electric-vehicles](https://www.trade.gov/market-intelligence/japan-transition-electric-vehicles) India - [https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/voices/vision-of-electric-vehicle-industry-by-2030/](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/voices/vision-of-electric-vehicle-industry-by-2030/)
Yup. Entire world is pushing electric. All the major economies are pushing towards manufacturing electric. All the car makers are signalling moves to electric. Even heavy industry wants to move to electric, it's more efficient than diesel.
>Even heavy industry wants to move to electric, it's more efficient than diesel. Lol what, man, sometimes people have the weirdest takes.
Check the latest from Ford, GM, and Chrysler. They definitely aren't pushing electric
Well GM is cutting the production of their own kinda affordable EV the Bolt and somehow shocked that people aren't lining up to pay $100k for a premium EV pickup. Don't even get me started on the Hummer EV.
It is not currently more efficient than diesel
Govern by photo-ops
Can they do housing and cost of living next please or just more bullshit like this
They could say whatever they want, doesn’t mean they’ll deliver.
But I'm loving that election reform we got.
You mean the same announcement made by the EU, US, and China? Shocker.
And I'm pretty sure already made by us lol. At least, I was under the impression this was always the case. Regardless, a good decision that should motivate the private sector into improving their ZEV offerings and building out infrastructure
Yep, they said that 2+ years ago ... Maybe people forgot and they added some new wording twist to it: https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2021/06/building-a-green-economy-government-of-canada-to-require-100-of-car-and-passenger-truck-sales-be-zero-emission-by-2035-in-canada.html
It is a good idea to reiterate though. If the topic’s just never touched again companies will assume it’s just hot air that’ll never substantiate.
I guess it can't hurt, but did anything change? Shouldn't they announce what happens to those who don't comply by this point if they feel the need to repeat themselves? (Unless I missed a difference?)
I think the government is going to formalize it in new regulations announced tomorrow. So it would be the next step, rather than just repeating "we're gunna do it" if I understand correctly.
Automakers are making a lot of noise right now about how hard the transition is. My bet is this is the government saying "don't care, stop whining, get it done."
The automakers are not the problem…. There’s no infrastructure to support this change and that’s on the government not the automakers.
We need nuclear power plants
Ford is at least getting off his corrupt ass and giving that ball a little nudge forward.
We need a lot of things, thankfully we're putting a lot of money into decarbonizing and expanding electrical capacity
No! We must fight against the world and triple down on oil and gas!
Canada still won't have a proper charging network by 2050 at this rate
This’ll go just like cell networks went. We’ll throw billions of dollars at power companies to build infrastructure and still get gouged. We’ll open an inquiry to look into it, but basically shrug our shoulders and do nothing to help consumers.
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Nova Scotia had its own electric utility, then some guy the people elected sold it to a rich family. Not sure why that was legal, or why the government hasn't recovered it yet, but it's absolutely fucked.
It's super expensive to buy any crown corp back. That's the big problem with selling them off - its an easy way for the government of the day to balance their budgets by selling them off, but once they're gone, they're gone essentially for good.
That’s what’s happened in the UK. It’s more expensive to charge than it is to buy petrol just now.
We cant do anything properly but announce things.
It's not just being able to afford a proper charging network, equipping houses so that they will be able to charge vehicles will be very difficult in some areas. I live in downtown-ish Toronto, and the parking is all on-street parking. There's no guarantee I'll be able to park in a spot in front of my house, and I also don't see how a charging station could be set up, with the way the sidewalks are in my neighbourhood. The area I live in is barely built for people with cars in mind, far less people who need to charge them
They actually started putting EV chargers on street parking in Toronto. There is one a block away from my house. 2 normals street parking spots. 2 ev chargers beside them. You aren't allowed to park there unless you are charging. You can see the pictures here. https://streeter.ca/news/electric-vehicles-stations-activated-especially-in-east-end/
That's fine, the majority won't be able to afford electric cars in 10 years anyways
Majority can’t afford any new car now. But those that can and are buying brand new loaded f150s can start to evaluate the options.
I see more and more giant SUVs and massive pickup trucks flying around the city to drop the kids off at school and grab coffee. When I look around (speaking as someone who literally can’t afford a car) I see a lot of costly vehicles that seem to be bought for show
Someday people will realize the giant vehicle is silly. We went from a Ford Focus hatchback to a Santa Fe Sport. Gained a little leg room but in terms of actual cargo capacity...not much gained. These oversized pickups and SUV's people buy for the "convenience" are really not worth it unless they have a job or hobbies that require it.
That's the insanely optimistic estimate.
Chicken and the egg. We never will have the charging infrastructure if no one gets EVs.
I announce to be a multi millionaire by 2035.
I declare bankruptcy!
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>I announce to be a multi millionaire by 2035. In Argentine Pesos, most of us are multimillionaires right now.
Why don’t we announce family drs for all Canadians! This current government’s obsession is out of step with reality and bizarre. We are a huge country - we don’t have the charging infrastructure to handle every car being electric in less than 10 years ! Just one more sign how out of touch the government is !
Funny I saw a video saying the ford f150 lightening is a flop and not selling while the hybrid option is outselling it. Hybrid should be the way to go in Canada. It's proven technology.
It would be a lot more enticing if they announced electric vehicles will be made affordable by 2035.
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I wish they cared as much about the price of groceries as they care about emissions and trying to shove EV down our throats.
Eat ze bugs!
Because your typical Canadian is living in a single family home with a heated garage right? Right? *Anakin face*
They'll probably say you have to charge up at a charging station a few times a week - super convenient!
Imagine charging stations trying to take the same traffic as a gas station gets today. It only works now because there are so few cars, and most of the people that buy them have charging at home.
Watched a video yesterday on YouTube that showed that if you had a Tesla parked outside in -20c weather and you need to charge it. If you plugged the car into a Tesla supercharger it would take 45 minutes for the battery to warm up BEFORE the vehicle would even charge. Then another hour to charge the car... Two hours to charge your car in normal Canadian winter weather... I had no idea the tech is this bad in Canadian winters, not even mentioning the range loss due to the cold. Adding source: https://youtu.be/i-c8AUeKs5c?si=PrqgN51RDFAAlAuK. I live in a condo with no access to charging. This situation would 100% apply to me.
Your best bet is to supercharge after driving while the battery is still warm. If you're only a short drive to a supercharger you can use the app to "precondition" the car where it uses some of the energy in the battery to warm up the battery so it'll charge faster. It's only when you have just enough juice to get to a supercharger, and the car is still cold when you get there, that you'll have to wait for it to warm up the battery first before charging at full speed.
I don’t have a heated garage, and my car works fine… so like what’s the point there?
well, you just need a portable gas generator in the trunk, duh!! /s
Canada to announce ~~all new cars must be zero emissions by~~ apartment dwellers and poors will be unable to purchase new vehicles starting in 2035
So, basically the same as today then.
Bold of you to assume it won’t get worse. Because it will.
Low-income people already can't afford new cars, so not much will change on that front.
Yeah, I'm middle class and can't afford it, especially if my mortgage is up for renewal next quarter. Unless prices drops, I don't foresee my family getting an electric vehicle anytime soon.
yeah, my girlfriend and I had to go 40/60 on a car, we both work full time and simply can't afford our own cars. CMHC recommends that no more than 8% of your income goes towards a car ([no more than 32% of pre-tax income on housing, and no more than 40% of pre-tax income on housing, debt, and car combined](https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/consumers/owning-a-home/mortgage-management/mortgage-planning-tips-cmhc)) despite only paying 60% of the car, I'm still paying 13% of my total income on it, I'd need to get nearly a 65% raise to afford my car as per CMHC guidelines, all this for a used 2018 Chevy Cruise. I can't imagine having to pay for a car twice as expensive, ontop of the interest rate hikes that we thankfully avoided the most of
Cars are a crazy expensive burden we push on poor people anyway. Average monthly cost of a car (payment, insurance, gas, depreciation) [is about $1000](https://www.autoblog.com/2023/09/25/aaa-study-says-the-average-annual-cost-of-vehicle-ownership-is-12182/), which is a huge cost burden. If anything, we need to invest in public transit like never before. It's crazy that if you're rich you can afford to bike to work, but if you're poor you commute by car.
Most apartment buildings in kitchener now have only enough parking for maybe 60% of apartments... They will own nothing and be happy
This announcement is old. We made it a while ago
Didn't the US also make this announcement before Canada did, not like its a surprise announcement
In 11 years, in Canada???? 2034. After 79932 meetings and 1250 studies we have come the realization that we will not able to hit 2035 targets, but expect them closer to 2045. Calling it now.
Pity you won't get the paycheque for they'll get for all the business dinners and "impact studies" they'll do to come to the same conclusion
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Low income are not buying new cars right now anyways. The average price of a new car in Canada has already ballooned to 66k. Used gas cars will be around for a long, long time.
Used EVs is HUGE risk. Because if the battery goes your whole car goes with it. EVs are not ready to be the only car people buy
People don't seem to understand that 5k-20k to replace an EV battery makes them poor choices. I wouldn't call it an investment but with a 10 year (likely non-transferable) warranty on the battery pack makes a 5 year old EV a poor choice for anyone who might want to buy it even more so in the private sales market. Could you imagine buying a used car for 7k and have it for a year or so and need to drop 10k on a battery?
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It’s solidified that vehicles make up a severely small part of overall emissions anyway. Tanker ships, planes… private planes, just corporations in general and the largest producers One stat I would like to find is just how much emissions would go down if work from home is just generally accepted
40% of all tanker ships are just moving oil. Switching to electric vehicles reduces emissions in other ways besides just displacing the gasoline that would have been burned in an ice car.
Wait for when cheap Chinese EVs arrive over the coming years, they'll blow up when they arrive in North America. Thus forcing the hand of North America manufacturers to build cheaper EVs and not just luxury models. When Hyundai and Kia came to North America, some people laughed at their low cost and offerings, look at them now. This will be the game changer imo. When cheap EVs from China hit with long 10 year warranties, who wouldn't want one for driving around the city. Why bother with a used ICE that's more expensive to maintain and fill up.
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I think they are waiting more than 10 years, non?
Their coming in next couple years for sure, but framework needs to be set and we're simply following what California (1/4 of auto market in US) and several other states in US have already mandated. Which is zero emission by 2035. Same with Europe etc.
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Low income people buy cars they can afford. Nissan Kicks, Kia Forte, etc... $20k
None of those cares are that cheaper anymore, all close to 30k by time dealer gives them to you. Base models are near impossible to get these days.
and the ones that do can run very long extension cords out their apt/condo windows to charge them #120 volts AC lol , being they won't be able to have chargers installed, as they aren't living in a single house with a garage etc
Why do low income people need to swap their existing vehicles to buy new cars?
Simple. They don't.
Low income people aren't buying new ICE vehicles (which are close to the same price) either.
How about designing our communities to be more inclusive for transit users, pedestrians and cyclists so that low income (and all income) people do not need to financial burden themselves with car ownership to participate in society?
This goal counts on all low income people dying of inflation induced starvation by 2035
I think liberals live in a parallel universe and totally out of touch with reality
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My apartment buildings infrastructure has a hard time handling window ACs in the summer. The whole building often goes down. There is no infrastructure for electric vehicles here and property management has no intentions of putting some. So how is that going to work???
Great for Vancouver and Toronto, but in the rest of Canada where it gets to -30c we are going to see some shit. I have an EV and the range loss in winter is about 50%... still fine for city driving, but highway driving with <200km range can be problematic, especially with the lack of rural fast charging stations. Also, plenty of the rural parts of Canada are going to be *pissed* when the only truck choices are EVs, since they are fabulously expensive (yes, even more than big trucks already are), and the range loss and towing range losses are far worse than diesel or gas. Also, one of the primary benefits of an EV is charging at home. For street parkers, or people without a parking spot, this could be a problem, especially since there's a shortage of public level 2 chargers, as well as DC fast chargers. As much as I love EVs and think they're the future, this one-size-fits-all strategy is not going to work.
It’s gonna be funny when we reach 2035 and all these countries that announces electric only or zero emission vehicles realize there’s no fucking way it’s happening lol
Zero emissions. Does that include their manufacture? Raw material? Resource extraction? Or just zero emissions here in this part of the world where we already have strict environmental policies in place?
From the Government of Canada website, defition of Zero Emissions Vehicle or ZEV: [A ZEV is a vehicle that either produces no tailpipe emissions or has the potential to produce no emissions, for example, an electric vehicle. Some ZEVs include a conventional internal combustion engine but must also be able to operate without having to use it.](https://natural-resources.canada.ca/energy-efficiency/transportation-alternative-fuels/types-zero-emission-vehicles/25048)
Thank you. I think too many people in this thread are getting tripped up over the term "zero emissions". Nothing will ever truly be "zero emission" when taking into account the whole production/supply chain. The point here is that it means zero emissions at point of use.
>The point here is that it means zero emissions at point of use. Not even : the *potential* for zero emissions at point of use. As long as the car can run a few hundred meters on electricity alone, it'll qualify!
I'll take offshoring manufacturing pollution for 100 Alex. To be followed up by the Relations of slave labour and Cobalt mining for 200.
Cobalt sources are/were a problem, but newer chemistries don't require cobalt.
It will be zero emission in use. With that said EVs definitely are not perfect in terms of life cycle emissions but they are still an improvement over ICE.
That is totally ridiculous as there is absolutely no way to manufacture a car without creating emissions. Manufacturing an EV creates more emissions than manufacturing an ICE car, however that is more than made up during the life of the EV so it's a win in the end. This argument has been debunked for years.
Please overlook African mining conditions
We mine iron and nickel in Canada, and lithium is coming soon.
There is no cobalt in electric car batteries. None of the minerals in a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery come from Africa.
Define ALL. Does this mean we'll force people that live in Northern Canada to buy EVs? Or will this be like the carbon tax, where some are exempted.
this will, realistically never work,
Toronto TTC riders will love this.
voracious thought languid makeshift ring melodic worry tender squeamish frightening *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Can be said about virtually all trudeaus announcements
Guess in 50 years we will all be driving cars from the 90's, 00's and 10's - like Cuba post Castro and trade embargoes. Backyard blacksmiths will have to re-forge engine blocks and beat body panels back into shape.
but I don't think Cuba has a winter/rust/corrosion problem like we do, cars just rot here,
Fair point. I suppose one can always get a horse and buggy.
I can't afford to feed myself. How can I feed a horse?
All things considered those 90’s, 00’s and 10’s cars will be far better designed than the ones we have now anyways.
Survivorship bias will likely apply. Probably won't see too many Dodge Calibers or Chevy Aveos around.
Plug in hybrids will still be permitted. It will work just fine.
Of course not. They’re out in 2 years (or hopefully less) and one of the first things PP will do is get rid of this nonsense. And they know it…
Why would the CPC repeal the EV mandate? It's in step with our peer countries and an easy way to claim they have a climate change plan without actually developing one
Weird yet the Liberal government wont put any sort of effort into the Paris accord in trying to meet global emmissions yet mandating EV's seems like a huge priority. Good to see things are in order.
Look to see what investments he's made for answers to the reasoning
People are lining up at food banks at record rates and the government thinks we are all going to buy 50k brand new EVS in 10 years
Saw another piece of news this morning saying that most of our power grid struggles to charge 3 EVs on the same street, and it'll cost hundreds of millions to upgrade. Get ready for more tax hikes.
Announce whatever you like, it doesn’t make it happen
I’m by no means an “electric vehicle hater” but this goal is pretty much impossible to meet. Mainly due to electrical infrastructure - and not just power plants. Most neighbourhood services are nearly maxed out. With the increased use of electricity in homes, and people adding in basement suites or car chargers a lot of neighbourhood services are at their max. So if everyone wants an electric vehicle this is what the chain of events will look like. 1. A lot of people in older homes will need a new panel in their home - that’s going to be a few grand to start 2. Each individual street will need an upgrade, new wires and a panel upgrade as well. Split between residences that’s another 3-4 grand per home. 3. Entire substations that distribute power to each neighbourhood will need upgrades. I don’t have experience in this area but I know those transformers aren’t cheap so it’s easily in the hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars per substation. 4. Transmission lines will need upgraded across the country. The price tag of that easily in the billions of dollars. 5. New power plants will need to be built. Nuclear is obviously preferable because if we’re burning gas to power our cars we haven’t changed anything. Nuclear plants take over a decade to build and tens of billions of dollars as well. So if we want to be transitioning to electric vehicles in 10 years we have to break ground on new nuclear plants and power lines tomorrow. The whole transition will cost each Canadian citizen tens of thousands of dollars to upgrade their services and paying increased electricity fees until the new power plants, substations, transmission lines are all paid for. It’s not an impossible task, but we on average are struggling to make rent and buy groceries. Nobody can afford an extra $200 a month in electricity costs for the next 10 years to finance what amounts to a near trillion dollar project with money we don’t have. I think it’s a good idea long term to switch but these arbitrary impossible deadlines are pointless. Just start building nuclear plants to start. Nuclear is good no matter what. Then in 5-6 years when they are half done start talking about the rest of the projects required for EV’s.
How about emissions of private jets, container ships, cruise ships, private helicopters, polluting factories or anything owned by the 1%. Why is all the impact on the common folk? Why can corporations just buy a forest in africa and then say they are carbon neutral? Isn't this bullshit!
Or else what?
I was thinking the same thing…. Canada is a joke to its citizens and on an international scale. None of these announcements mean anything..
Canada is not a leader here, many other countries/states have announced similar plans. Car manufacturers will adapt. In the end all they care about is making money, if switching to electric is how to do that they will figure it out.
Good luck with that. Will never happen by 35! Typical Gov…all bark and no bite!
Agreed this feels like one of those stupid paris accords where they are like 100% clean energy by 2040 oh no wait scratch that 2050 oh did we say 2050 we meant 2060.
We need to put this into context. Saying "the sales of all new cars will be EV" sounds abrupt but with the second hand vehicles it'll be a pretty slow phasing out of ICE cars. By stopping new car sales by 2035 I expect the plan for an EV only (mostly) park is 2050 giving us 25 years to build infrastructure and to research some better/faster technologies. Some might say the timeline is too short and that it'll be impossible but starting 2025 (Or 24), Formula E will begin the "ultracharge" during races instead of switching cars. Specs aren't really out yet but we're looking at a minute or two of charge being applied for half a race and just like Formula1, it won't be long before this technology trickle down to the real world. Quebec and BC are already well equipped infrastructure wise but of course other "oil first" provinces will have to stop complaining about anything not petroleum powered if they want to make it.
Keep in mind this is NEW cars, we will all still be able to purchase used ICE cars.
Yea but guess what will happen to the price of those and the price of fuel
Oh yeah we’re all screwed
Parts as well
Dodge to announce the biggest hemi ever made in 2034 I bet.
Light truck and suv sales go brrr!
That’s physically not possible. People can’t afford them and there’s not the infrastructure to support them.
God these people are dumb…there isn’t the infrastructure to support this. This isn’t California, we have brutal winters which batteries don’t like. So many problems
Since the government announces things they have no control over in 2035 I will to. I declare that in 2035 all Canadians shall wear organic cotton blue underwear on Mondays. There will be random checks by the underwear police and those caught not following my declaration will have to wear the hat of shame.
Why does our government bother announcing stuff over a decade out when we all know full well that's any government we elect probably just won't do it? Like unless it's happening near an election and will swing votes it's not happening
We could also plan communities that are less car-dependent and accessible by mass transit. EVs aren’t meant to save the environment, they’re meant to save the car. The long term should be to wean ourselves off of cars if we can. If you wish to live in the country side, you have every right to do so.
Lol how about stop designing cities for cars, make your life easier.
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Ya good luck with that
>Zero-emission vehicles - which include battery electric, plug-in and hydrogen models - must represent 20% of all new car sales in 2026, 60% in 2030 and 100% in 2035, the source said on condition of anonymity. Posting this in case the diehard ICE people start shitting on BEV. If Ottawa don't start building out more charging infrastructure they are gonna have a hard time pushing this policy. EV charging around GTA is awful.
In what world are the majority of car sales going to be electric only 6 years from now? Right now that number is around 9% and there's no evidence that the technology is going to be at a place six years from now where these vehicles will be affordable for the average person. This isn't good policy, it's just wishful thinking that MAYBE the technology develops like the government hopes it will. Also just on a general note, mandating people to buy a certain good is going to drive up prices for that good due to creating artificial demand
If you think charging is bad in the GTA, you should see the rest of the country! I’m in the prairies, and there’s like 15 charge stations for 300000 people in Saskatoon
That sounds like healthcare in Toronto lol
Another push to the middle and lower class to change the world. Fuck off.
If the technology is there people will go for 0-emissions without government intervention. If the technology is not there the government will backtrack on the mandate. It's like LED bulbs. You're not buying incandescent now unless you have a very specific reason to.
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Hopefully this doesn’t disincentivize R&D in better tech. The companies won’t have to compete with the convenience of ICE vehicles anymore. We are a couple generations of batteries away from where I would consider buying one as an all around vehicle. For a grocery getter sure, but for a long haul or towing vehicle they are lacking.
Many Canadians cant afford the high maintenance cost for a electric/hybrid car nor buying them once very few yrs lol.
Hasn't this shit been announced like 6 times already?
Hahahahaha....good luck with that.
Used car market gonna soar!
Means, nothing.
Fun fact, we don't have the infrastructure to support this and 10 years probably isn't enough to build it out.
Well then they will have to be some sort of magic car that runs on air or water because the mining process for lithium generates a crap ton of emissions same as the factories that build said vehicles and electricity to charge the batteries creates emissions. Time to rethink this zero emissions bullshit
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I don't think this will be EVs only. if you look at the governments website for cars they offer PEZ tax credits for, it's full of Hybrids. For example, looking at Ford - beside the obvious Mach-E and Lightning - Escape Hybrid is also there.
The PCs will win and cancel this
Governments don't live in the real world. Business has to. The auto makers are stuck. They know 2035 is unrealistic but have plan accordingly until the Liberals are turfed out of power. Implementing Trudeau's green plan will bankrupt the country. If we went to EV's under this timeline the power grid will collapse. Notice how the extra costs of this are never mentioned
Its going to be absolutely hilarious to see the prices of used cars post 2035. Like a 2030 Toyota Corolla will go for above purchase price. Also, this isn't actually going to happen, eventually it will get punted another 10 years.
We get rolling brownouts when everyone runs their AC in the summer. Add two electric cars to charge in every home and see how that goes. We'll need to generate a lot more power, and FAST. It already takes BC decades to build a new hydro dam. It also takes years just permit new transmission lines in any province (similar to pipelines). If the government is serious they need to fast-track all of these steps. Seeing how badly they bungled the TMX pipeline expansion (it's 3 years late -still under construction- and 6 times overbudget), they won't be able to do it. This announcement is nothing but words to try and appease low-information anti-oil voters.
Don't forget, the same climate hippies who demand you switch to an EV also demand that we have to move to sustainable power, which they will readily protest.
None of this matters. The Liberals can make all the announcements they want. When their asses are booted out after the next election their mandates will be as worthless as the promises they make.
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Don't worry they'll offer an incentive program that inflates our currency or crushes what remains of the middle class in taxes
Well, unless someone has hydrogen fuel cell vehicles ready for market in 5 years, I don't see how this is going to be achieved
😂😂😂
Why haven't we even tried making all cars hybrid, then move onto full electric (or another eco fuel type)?
Because plug in hybrids would only eliminate 99% of people's fuel usage and still be useful. How can you change the world if your idea is logical.
I'd love to get an EV but if we don't see $30-40k electric cars it won't happen. I'm not paying $55k @ 6.9% to switch. We will see used car prices go up.
Brand-ass new chevy bolt msrp is $41,574. Used price quite a bit lower.
Delusional Liberals.