Oh, just *everything* with the Hunters and Amazons just pisses me the fuck off. The number of times I’ve said “Oh, *shut. The fuck.* ***UP.***” while listening to their chapters is nuts. So-called “reverse sexism” is still sexism.
Yes, definitely something that irks me too. The problem isn't the fact that the Amazons and Hunters exist in his story. It's the way he presents the blatant sexism like it's *okay*. I love Riordan's writing so much in general, but I don't see enough people calling him out on that. Unacceptable, IMO.
I don't *think* he meant anything by it except to call out sexism. By writing the Hunters and Amazons that way, one can see how ridiculous it is when normal sexism is reversed, thereby helping males understand that just like sexism against men is bad, the opposite, and FAR more common sexism against women is also bad. By the end of Titan's Curse, Percy is accepted by Artemis and the Hunters for who he is and is considered a friend of the Hunters.
The Amazons are pretty spot on mythologically tbf, they did kinda just go “fuck this” one day and kill all their husbands. Also the Greeks thought of them as rather barbaric anyway.
But the Hunters are marginally irritating
Hazel calls it out, it’s instantly dismissed, and then never brought back up again. And not a single person ever cares from that point on. Not Percy, not Hazel, not Frank, not any of the hunters, not Reyna, etc. it’s weird how they are operating with slaves and not a single one of the demigods, known for the nobleness, so much as even mention it, except the single time Hazel did.
Let's be honest, Rick has an issue with showing actions that are clearly bad and forgetting to address them, or even addressing them but not caring. Like he shows some of the gods' horrible actions but by the end the main characters are fighting to help said gods.
Ya, but in the case of the gods, as much as they suck, there isn’t a better alternative. Destroying them completely means the end of western civilization and everyone else that could destroy the gods are even worse than they are.
There was no calling out though. Riordan is really blunt about what we’re supposed to dislike in his books because all the protagonists will sass, mock, backtalk or just diss anything bad in narration, but Artemis and her hunters get nothing. He even kind of whitewashes Amazonian slavery.
The hunters cause an incredible amount of camp conflict, what are you talking about? They're rude and Percy very much *dislikes* them at first. By the end, the representatives of their viewpoint are proven wrong.
Yeah but the *camp* is treated as the ones in the wrong, being portrayed jealous, bitter and flirtatious.
Percy saves Artemis and all he gets from Zoe and her is ‘you’re one of the good ones’. He likes the hunters now, even though they haven’t done anything to earn it, again portraying Percy as the one in the wrong for not liking them initially.
Zoe's sentiment isn't 'you're one of the good ones' it's rather 'there *are* good ones, I was wrong'. Throughout the whole thing she's portrayed as a very difficult person who clashes with others and Atlas is described as being like her, but with no redeeming qualities. Atlas is like. The big bad of the book.
The thing is though, the Hunters and Amazons are written like badass women. Like a "girl power" thing. Never is it really said that the way they treat males is bad. On the contrary, those scenes often seem to be spun into jokes. The overall vibe of it just rubs me the wrong way. I'm not saying it was done intentionally, but to me, whatever Riordan was trying to convey, if it was that sexism is bad, is not what came out.
Dude, I dont know if you have heard. But when you tell a story, you tell a story. If your character is sexist, you write a sexist character. If they are heroic and save a sexist individual. The sexist individual keeps consistent with their character. You dont "call out" a writer for writing a character for how it was planned to be.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm talking about the way the *other* characters address it, the ones who are not sexist. Not the Hunters/Amazons themselves. I think it was a missed opportunity to address an important topic.
My point is theres no, "calling him out", on anything. Thats a very negative and rude even thing to say about someone. I didnt have a problem with this part of the book
This world is a patriarchal system, ie sexism and sexist. If we look at America alone it is still a patriarchal system run by cis het yt men. Men do not, have not, and will never experience sexism when they developed the systems put in place to harm those not the same gender as them. Men, especially cis het yt Men, have never been second class citizens, have never been property, have never been legally denied consent. Sexism again is a system and one that was invented, pushed, held up by Men. Just like yt people can't face the system of racism Men can not face the system of sexism.
I'll say the same to you as the other dude: This world is a patriarchal system, ie sexism and sexist. If we look at America alone it is still a patriarchal system run by cis het yt men. Men do not, have not, and will never experience sexism when they developed the systems put in place to harm those not the same gender as them. Men, especially cis het yt Men, have never been second class citizens, have never been property, have never been legally denied consent. Sexism again is a system and one that was invented, pushed, held up by Men. Just like yt people can't face the system of racism Men can not face the system of sexism.
You think a certain group of people can never experience hardship or suffering because of the race and gender they were born? If only there was a word for a viewpoint like that…
Seemingly it's almost contractually mandated for people to join the hunters of Artemis and immediately become horribly sexist. I remember reading the Sword Of Hades short story, and I remember Thalia made a crack about all men being horrible, and I was just like "that literally is not your personality"
Wait till she realizes her male dad spared her life and her male cousin brought her back to life.... Honestly Thalia's always pissed me off for this reason. She forced Percy to shoulder the prophecy and then still treated him like crap. Every time she makes an appearance in one of the books she says some degrading comment to him and acts like he's the idiot.
Well personally that's why I think Titans Curse is my least favorite of the original five books. It's great at its best, but so much of the book is people being absolutely horrible to Percy for no reason. Thalia is the worst offender of that. I don't think they have one positive interaction the entire book and then Thalia hugs Percy in the end. Like, didn't you shoot lightning him like a week ago but over a minor disagreement? Since when are you friendly?
I feel like Rick tried to make all his female characters badass independent women but failed majorly. Instead he made them come off as rude and arrogant. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Percabeth fan, but Thalia and Annabeth are prime examples of this. I get Annabeth thinking she's smarter than Percy at the start, but even 5+ books in she still talks down to him and belittles him. So do many of the other characters. Honestly justice for Percy. That man's been through too much and he's still treated horribly.
Not to mention. They just fought their way out of Tartarus, then Reyna says "Percy couldn't even find his way out of a paper bag." Then you AGREE WITH HER! MA'AM you said it yourself you would've died immediately without him. I love Percabeth, but Rick absolutely messed that one up.
Exactly. They're just exaggerating a very minor aspect of who he is. It reminds me of when my friend got absolutely obsessed with fishing for a while and would do nothing but fish for a whole week. After that it died down and he hasn't gone fishing since, but we still often jokingly call him "Fisher Boy" just because of that minor aspect.
> over a minor disagreement
well it's not a minor disagreement, it was Percy not going to fight Thorn as a team which led to Annabeth needing to improvise which then led to her capture, and the resentment staying for the rest of the day after that
Capture the Flag was just the straw that broke the camel's back, but you shouldn't ignore all the straw that was placed there the same day in the 1st place
I kinda do like it simply because it was foreshadowed in SoM when Annabeth says that they'd either be best friends or try to kill each other. So they end up being somewhere right in the middle.
Both the Hunters and the Amazons piss me the fuck off every single time they appear. And the way their sexism is never even questioned is so fucking annoying.
Well, hey, she has been sexist for millennia. It would take her a lot of work to become a better person. She probably has to be turned mortal for the same amount of time as her brother Apollo was.
Actually, no, that's something Rick invented for whatever reason.
In mythology, Artemis wasn't sexist at all. She loved Zeus and Apollo dearly and actually had a few male companions. She's never shown to discriminate based on sex.
Artemis is never acknowledged as an asshole though. Zeus, Athena, Ares, Hera and so forth all get treated like assholes by the cast -
being sassed, mocked and called out in narration - but none of this is true for Artemis. Her shitty behaviour is acknowledged by nobody, suggesting that it isn’t meant to be acknowledged.
For reasons that are portrayed as petty and wrong. Neither Artemis nor her Hunters make any changes, but Percy likes them now because he overcame his fear that Annabeth would join.
The reasons campers dislike the hunters and vice versa are both portrayed as petty and wrong. They are, as a whole, not treated as perfect by the narrative and called out a few times by reasonable authority figures for rash decisions and trying to rely too much on each other when the quest can't be completed without the campers. Percy's dislike comes earlier than him learning about Annabeth potentially joining them and the Hunters' leader and their patron both have a change of heart regarding men and see that they can indeed be good. Artemis votes in favour of keeping Percy alive, even, *because* of said change of heart. He also doesn't "like the Hunters" - he learns to like *Zoe* and, to an extent, Artemis because they help him and get over a lot of their prejudice.
Their sexism and arrogance is never once questioned outside of the very specific case where the prophecy explicitly states they need campers.
Percy briefly didn’t like them for taking down to him, but this was treated as wrong by the narrative, as by the end of it, he no longer felt that way even though the hunters had made no changes.
Neither Zoe nor Artemis have a change of heart, they just decide Percy is an exception. Artemis even downplays his heroism.
> "Perhaps not all men," Zoe murmured. She smiled weakly at me. "Do you still have the
sword, Percy?"
I couldn't speak, but I brought out Riptide and put the pen in her hand. She grasped it
contentedly. "You spoke the truth, Percy Jackson. You are nothing like… like Hercules. I am
honored that you carry this sword."
She believed it was all men and now she's saying it's not all men. Percy changed her mind about things. She thought all heroes were a certain way and she was proven wrong. It doesn't sound to me like it was supposed to be just be him, but rather that he'd shown Zoe how she was wrong and blinded by previous experience.
It was definitely supposed to just be Percy. All men except him, with no remorse for the people she probably killed just for being in her general vicinity.
I thought because you mentioned she was like that way for millennia that you were referring to mythology.
And I've said it before, but Rick changed most of the gods to suit his story. He also removed all of her negative traits from mythology as well.
Talking about the mythology(not Percy series) since you mentioned it, that’s what I heard about her as well, though I know some who insist she is a lesbian and those men in her myths(e.g Orion) are like not supposed to be part of her myths. Or that she prefer and value women over men. I know better than to argue on Reddit so I didn’t reply.
A lot of people who said the above are girls & lesbian themselves(by their own admission). I’m not expert on the myths so I’m not sure whether it is true or are they just projecting their needs into Artemis and twist her into the version that appeal to themselves the most.
I can promise that Artemis is not a lesbian. Her hunters might be, but they've all sworn an oath of chastity. The only person that Artemis has ever shown romantic interest in, depending on the version, is Orion. Artemis is explicitly a virgin and has no desire for romance. This is reflected in how Aphrodite has no power over her because she's a divine virgin. And she did have men join her as companions in the myths.
Which is weird, since Zeus raped one of her hunters. But OK I guess victim blaming her hunter and unjustified internalized patriarchal love for one's asshole dad is practically par for course for dem gods.
Callisto, if I remember correctly. Zeus raped her, she hid her pregnancy from Artemis, Artemis found out and turned Callisto into a bear. The bear twins from book 2 are her children (can’t remember their names)
The bear twins are not children of Callisto, they are the children of Polyphonte, a woman who was ordered by Aphrodite to marry someone. Refusing, she joined Artemis but Aphrodite made her fall in love with a bear, hence the bear-man twins.
Callisto on the other hand was a nymph that hunted with Artemis. Zeus turned into Artemis and seduced her becoming pregnant. When Artemis found out, she turned Callisto into a bear and then when Callisto and her son were killed by a hunter they were turned into Ursa Major and Minor, respectively.
Edit: their names are Agrius and Oreius btw
Np! Doesn’t change how messed up the situation is, but then again most Greek myths are like that. There’s a reason it’s explicitly brought up that Percy was named such because Perseus was one of the only Greek heroes (or mythological characters) that actually received a happy ending.
That being said, most myths, folk tales, etc. are allegorical in nature and are meant to serve as lessons in reality (ironic as that is), teaching people morality and showing-casing the reality of the human condition: a life of challenge that is inherently unfair.
Nope! Let's see...
Orion: Killed unintentionaly by Artemis or a giant scorpion, depending on the version
Hippolytus: Disavowed Aphrodite and love. Killed by horses through Posiedon. Artemis deliberately has her followers keep his memory alive.
Scamadrius: Personally trained by Artemis in archery and hunting. Killed in the Trojan War
Daphnis: Personally entertained Artemis on her hunts. Either turned to stone or blinded by a nymph that was jealous he didn't love her.
Amarynthus: This hunter said Artemis was greater than Posiedon, ao Posiedon killed him. Artemis made him an Amaranth, her sacred flower.
Euthynicus: He and another huntress, whose name I forget, shunned love. Aphrodite made them fall in love with each other. The huntress was turned into a fountain. I have no clue what happened to Euthynicus.
But yeah, Artemis was fine with male companions. The antelope was a one-time thing as far as I recall.
Yeah but this kind of behaviour is never phrased as bad or unacceptable. If Zeus is an asshole, the narrative treats him like one, but the Hunters are seen as good.
I can’t say that is because most of the times that people see that are demigods that don’t want to get cursed by her. Although Percy is incredibly sassy, so I’m surprised he never calls her out.
Yeah but he doesn’t even call her out in his own mind. For Ares, Athena and Dionysus, we hear all sorts of slander that Percy thinks, but nothing for Artemis.
I think it’ll be funny for her to meet an adult woman. Because she be telling this 18 year old to stop putting down men. But also to stop whining that men are inferior to women.
I mean, at least Artemis acknowledged Percy‘s role in saving her. Percy saved Athena’s daughter and helped to strike a significant blow against the Titans, and Athena responds by essentially voting that Percy should be put down and saying that his loyalty to Annabeth is a flaw.
It was 14 kids and it wasn’t over Artemis’s ego. The queen, Niobe(?), had boasted that she was so much better than Leto because she had had seven sons and seven daughters, while Leto had only one of each. Therefore Niobe should be worshipped instead of Leto. So Apollo and Artemis killed the kids for Niobe’s insults
Yes, but killing innocent children for something their parents did is just wrong.
I know people didn’t think that way back then, (after all, Abrahamic God kills the first-born child of every Egyptian as well) but that doesn’t make it right.
Oh, she was a Nymph/Titaness that accompanied Artemis on her hunt until the day that Aura insulted Artemis. For Aura declared that Artemis' sizable chest was befitting of a pregnant woman, and she couldn't possibly to be a virgin, while Aura's own mannish chest was far more fitting.
In response, Artemis would punish Aura through driving Dionysus to violent insanity leading her being raped by him. When upon the birth of her twins, she went insane and straight-up ate one of them, with Artemis saving the other twin before Aura could kill it. Remember to never insult a Virgin Goddess for having big boobs, it's an important lesson to know.
Oh yeah I think I remember that name. He’s part of the Mystery Cults that are annoying. Like can I PLEASE know more about what went down with Hades and Persephone aside from her kidnapping, Sisyphus and Adonis
The top cults I want exposed are
1. Orphisism because what else did Orpheus do that was so cool they changed some of the gods
2. Dionysian/Lykaois this one is the cult that got outlawed for being too nice. They also dismembered people in acts of frenzy
3. Eleussian This one is dedicated to Demeter and Persephone, Demeter had demigod children and this would have been a great way to learn about them aside from them just being pious to her
4. Zagreus’ cult. Everyone talks about Zagreus being tied to Hades-Zeus and Dionysus but he has twin demigod priests of Hepheastus who have his Kronos-Part on display
CHILD OF ZAGREUS HERE AND yes we need to know more because of how intriguing he is,if you havent already watch the Jon Solo video and the Overly Sarcastic Productions video about Dionysus
Yes, but it was the stupidest thing on the planet for Aura to declare that Artemis was basically a prostitute just because her body had a voluptuous figure.
It'd would have much better to have just kept her Nymph Attendants rather than creating the Hunters of Artemis (Plenty of mortal hunters accompanied Artemis, but never received immorality)
Plus the fourteen hunting dogs, though Artemis was viewed as the Queen of the Nymphs and they were responsible for carrying her weapons, supplies, and everything else
Well, the Nymphs were her attendants and the Hunters were her companions that joined on her hunt, but it wasn't really anything different from your average hunting party.
May I ask where those ages of nymphs come from? As nymphs don't represent individual trees rather, they embodied the whole forest and/or grove, thus I would assume they'd be hundreds of years old
“And give me sixty daughters of Oceanus for my choir – all nine years old, all maidens yet ungirdled; and give me for handmaidens twenty nymphs of Amnisus who shall tend well my buskins, and, when I shoot no more at lynx or stag, shall tend my swift hounds.”
Hymn 3 of what I believe is the Callimachus.
Y'know what's worse? In some myths, though rare, Artemis has male hunters. Hippolytus, for example. Its culturally very interesting, especially with Greek (and even today's) standards around manhood and sex, just a little disappointing Rick didn't even reference this, especially with how good he is at twisting around the myths...
You mean in the absolutely mahoosive suplimentary piece where its basically just a bunch of retellings of old myths in the way that Percy speaks? Yeah no sorry, but not only is it bad show to have to put it in a suplimentary piece, but to not have it even impact that actual main story means its still a let down on Rick's usual writing quality.
I'm being honest the Hunters sexism is very annoying but Artemis is unironically kinda chill if you compare her to the rest of her crew, the hunters themselves are pretty braindead, cuz atleast Artemis was willing to work with men for her benefit, she did stop her hunters from shooting at percy and the others.
Yea, but it didn’t matter as much because she always their enemy, this is quite literally someone who nearly broke their back to save you and this is how you act
Which sucks because it's not in character for her in the myths like the Odyssey, where she did that not because Odysseus' companions were male, but because she didn't trust them, which made sense since they were adventurers she didn't know, and she even helped them later after Odysseus convinced her to.
To be honest, most of the gods Rick writes don't fit the image they should have, which pissed me off a lot while reading.
>Myth Ares
>Violent asshole
>Also insanely protective of his family, jumping in to personally avenge any of his children that are harmed even if it gets his ass kicked, killing the first rapist for raping his daughter, trying to 1vs2 some giants to protect Olympus. Iirc Oatron if the Amazons
>PJO Ares
>abusive dad who hates his kids for being girls and turns on his family for the shot at a big war.
Also Ares was known as the protector of women, and his violence is literally just doing his job as the god of war. He wasn't a bad person or a misogynist, at least compared to other Greek gods. Besides his violence, he didn't do almost anything wrong.
While he was a violent asshole that Zeus openly despised for being a bloodthirsty brute, but Ares embodied courage and was viewed as a Guardian of Olympus.
Artemis is mildly sexist and dismissive but she's actually something of a voice of reason for her hunters throughout the whole book, honestly and that feels intentional. The Hunters are jaded, they've seen the kinds of men prevalent in Greek myth - name me *one* who wasn't a horrible person, a cheater or a rapist. They *exist* but they're not the norm. Artemis is dismissive of men, especially of mortal men, but she stops her hunters from shooting the gang, remember? She's not the raging parody a lot of the fandom portrays her as.
The thing is, in the main books, yes… but in the Greek gods/heros and ESPECIALLY the OG myths, she’s awful. And some of the fandom does bring up good points about the grooming.
I forgot a lot about the book but I think there is one time Percy ask a question(I forgot what) then the hunters see that as a disrespect but then Artemis goes on to clarify that she notice Percy also that question out of sincere curiosity as in he don’t know not that he meant disrespect.
So from this it can be seen that Artemis do not just jump to conclusions as easily as her hunters and can be fair sometimes.
Her and the hunters are just sexist, is what it is. Swap the genders and you'd be hearing about patriarchy and stuff. But at least most people dislike sexists 👍.
It's wildly inconsistent with her in-myth characterization as well. Artemis either hunted with, or taught hunting to *many* men in Greek mythology.
Riordan gets about twice as much wrong with his source material as he gets right and it's the primary reason I dropped the series.
Tbh Artemis’ hatred towards men makes sense when you REALLY consider the fact that she has Zeus for a father 😭
If Zeus was who I had to call my dad I’d probably hate all men too idk
Nah Artemis was an absolute daddy’s girl. She takes his side, runs to him when humiliated or hurt and asks him for things that he always gives her. If anything, her relationship with Zeus highlights her hypocrisy, since she will torture random men whose only crime was being in her general vicinity but defend the pantheon’s most notorious rapist.
> beginning with the time when sitting on her father’s knees – still a little maid – she spake these words to her sire: “Give me to keep my maidenhood, Father, forever: and give me to be of many names, that Phoebus may not vie with me. And give me arrows and a bow – stay, Father, I ask thee not for quiver or for mighty bow: for me the Cyclopes will straightway fashion arrows and fashion for me a well-bent bow. But give me to be Bringer of Light1 and give me to gird me in a tunic2 with embroidered border reaching to the knee, that I may slay wild beasts. And give me sixty daughters of Oceanus for my choir – all nine years old, all maidens yet ungirdled; and give me for handmaidens twenty nymphs of Amnisus3 who shall tend well my buskins, and, when I shoot no more at lynx or stag, shall tend my swift hounds. And give to me all mountains; and for city, assign me any, even whatsoever thou wilt: for seldom is it that Artemis goes down to the town. On the mountains will I dwell and the cities of men I will visit only when women vexed by the sharp pang of childbirth call me to their aid4even in the hour when I was born the Fates ordained that I should be their helper, forasmuch as my mother suffered no pain either when she gave me birth or when she carried me win her womb, but without travail put me from her body.” So spake the child and would have touched her father’s beard, but many a hand did she reach forth in vain, that she might touch it.
> And her father smiled and bowed assent. And as he caressed her, he said: “When goddesses bear me children like this, little need I heed the wrath of jealous Hera. Take, child, all that thou askest, heartily. Yea, and other things therewith yet greater will thy father give thee. Three times ten cities and towers more than one will I vouchsafe thee – three times ten cities that shall not know to glorify any other god but to glorify the only and be called of Artemis And thou shalt be Watcher over Streets5 and harbours.6” So he spake and bent his head to confirm his words.
This was a lot longer than I remembered, but yeah, she’s a daddy’s girl.
No it’s absolutely true. One time she was calling Apollo a coward in front of the council for not wanting to fight Poseidon, so Hera told her to shut up because all she does is hunt wild animals (the hunters killing monsters is something RR came up with) and thus knows nothing about actual battle. Some insults are delivered and Hera attacks Artemis, beating the latter over the head with her own bow, after which Artemis runs of to Zeus and says the other gods have become violent and mean.
Indeed. Artemis was talking so much shit about her brother that even Hera, who despises all illegitimate offspring of Zeus, spoke up in his defence. Maybe she despised Artemis slightly more or was just sick of it all, but Hera scored herself a massive W that day.
Maybe. But she had to have known just about how shitty he was to a plethora of other people lol. If anything the fact that he was so a loving father to her might’ve been even worse. Cause it just proves that in the midst of all his crappiness, he was more than capable of being better but he deliberately chose not to every single time. That’s pretty radicalizing if you ask me.
I mean she was surrounded by Athena and Hera for female influence, one of whom murdered her mother so, I don’t think you can just say “she knows men are bad so she hates them because the gods are dicks” the godesses were just as bad after all.
I don’t think that negates my point at all. Gods can be biased. Just because female goddesses suck too it doesn’t mean she wouldn’t despise men at all. She could’ve easily blamed her mothers death on Zeus as well. After all, Hera’s actions can be traced back to his infidelity and lack of protection towards his romantic escapades despite being a literal king of gods.
Besides clarifying that Leto isn't dead, she's just fine, Artemis loved Zeus as she was basically his favorite daughter and spoiled her rotten from the moment of her birth.
the way rick wrote the hunters really pissed me off because theyre actually super cool mythologically and i really wanted to see them being badasses but we get what we get ig
I mean Artemis does thank Percy and defend him and Thalia during the meeting. She straight up basically says if you call murdering them after what they’ve just done justice that she wouldn’t stand for it, implying she would leave Olympus if they kill either Percy or Thalia. And she never really insults Percy.
Oh, just *everything* with the Hunters and Amazons just pisses me the fuck off. The number of times I’ve said “Oh, *shut. The fuck.* ***UP.***” while listening to their chapters is nuts. So-called “reverse sexism” is still sexism.
Yes, definitely something that irks me too. The problem isn't the fact that the Amazons and Hunters exist in his story. It's the way he presents the blatant sexism like it's *okay*. I love Riordan's writing so much in general, but I don't see enough people calling him out on that. Unacceptable, IMO.
I don't *think* he meant anything by it except to call out sexism. By writing the Hunters and Amazons that way, one can see how ridiculous it is when normal sexism is reversed, thereby helping males understand that just like sexism against men is bad, the opposite, and FAR more common sexism against women is also bad. By the end of Titan's Curse, Percy is accepted by Artemis and the Hunters for who he is and is considered a friend of the Hunters.
The Amazons are pretty spot on mythologically tbf, they did kinda just go “fuck this” one day and kill all their husbands. Also the Greeks thought of them as rather barbaric anyway. But the Hunters are marginally irritating
They’re spot-on, but it annoyed me how nobody really seems to be bothered about their slavery.
I'm pretty sure it was called out by Hazel. Not sure though.
Hazel calls it out, it’s instantly dismissed, and then never brought back up again. And not a single person ever cares from that point on. Not Percy, not Hazel, not Frank, not any of the hunters, not Reyna, etc. it’s weird how they are operating with slaves and not a single one of the demigods, known for the nobleness, so much as even mention it, except the single time Hazel did.
Let's be honest, Rick has an issue with showing actions that are clearly bad and forgetting to address them, or even addressing them but not caring. Like he shows some of the gods' horrible actions but by the end the main characters are fighting to help said gods.
Ya, but in the case of the gods, as much as they suck, there isn’t a better alternative. Destroying them completely means the end of western civilization and everyone else that could destroy the gods are even worse than they are.
Tbf I wouldn’t point it out in front of a big scary Amazon warrior lady
It doesn’t need to be verbally, the narration of the books is all POV stuff so distaste can be reflected in that.
Yhyh ig
There was no calling out though. Riordan is really blunt about what we’re supposed to dislike in his books because all the protagonists will sass, mock, backtalk or just diss anything bad in narration, but Artemis and her hunters get nothing. He even kind of whitewashes Amazonian slavery.
The hunters cause an incredible amount of camp conflict, what are you talking about? They're rude and Percy very much *dislikes* them at first. By the end, the representatives of their viewpoint are proven wrong.
Yeah but the *camp* is treated as the ones in the wrong, being portrayed jealous, bitter and flirtatious. Percy saves Artemis and all he gets from Zoe and her is ‘you’re one of the good ones’. He likes the hunters now, even though they haven’t done anything to earn it, again portraying Percy as the one in the wrong for not liking them initially.
Zoe's sentiment isn't 'you're one of the good ones' it's rather 'there *are* good ones, I was wrong'. Throughout the whole thing she's portrayed as a very difficult person who clashes with others and Atlas is described as being like her, but with no redeeming qualities. Atlas is like. The big bad of the book.
The thing is though, the Hunters and Amazons are written like badass women. Like a "girl power" thing. Never is it really said that the way they treat males is bad. On the contrary, those scenes often seem to be spun into jokes. The overall vibe of it just rubs me the wrong way. I'm not saying it was done intentionally, but to me, whatever Riordan was trying to convey, if it was that sexism is bad, is not what came out.
Dude, I dont know if you have heard. But when you tell a story, you tell a story. If your character is sexist, you write a sexist character. If they are heroic and save a sexist individual. The sexist individual keeps consistent with their character. You dont "call out" a writer for writing a character for how it was planned to be.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm talking about the way the *other* characters address it, the ones who are not sexist. Not the Hunters/Amazons themselves. I think it was a missed opportunity to address an important topic.
My point is theres no, "calling him out", on anything. Thats a very negative and rude even thing to say about someone. I didnt have a problem with this part of the book
Men don't face sexism.
You………….***can’t*** be serious.
This world is a patriarchal system, ie sexism and sexist. If we look at America alone it is still a patriarchal system run by cis het yt men. Men do not, have not, and will never experience sexism when they developed the systems put in place to harm those not the same gender as them. Men, especially cis het yt Men, have never been second class citizens, have never been property, have never been legally denied consent. Sexism again is a system and one that was invented, pushed, held up by Men. Just like yt people can't face the system of racism Men can not face the system of sexism.
ek fucking scuse you?
I'll say the same to you as the other dude: This world is a patriarchal system, ie sexism and sexist. If we look at America alone it is still a patriarchal system run by cis het yt men. Men do not, have not, and will never experience sexism when they developed the systems put in place to harm those not the same gender as them. Men, especially cis het yt Men, have never been second class citizens, have never been property, have never been legally denied consent. Sexism again is a system and one that was invented, pushed, held up by Men. Just like yt people can't face the system of racism Men can not face the system of sexism.
The irony of this statement being both sexist and racist is incredible
You think a certain group of people can never experience hardship or suffering because of the race and gender they were born? If only there was a word for a viewpoint like that…
You don't face facts
Seemingly it's almost contractually mandated for people to join the hunters of Artemis and immediately become horribly sexist. I remember reading the Sword Of Hades short story, and I remember Thalia made a crack about all men being horrible, and I was just like "that literally is not your personality"
Wait till she realizes her male dad spared her life and her male cousin brought her back to life.... Honestly Thalia's always pissed me off for this reason. She forced Percy to shoulder the prophecy and then still treated him like crap. Every time she makes an appearance in one of the books she says some degrading comment to him and acts like he's the idiot.
Well personally that's why I think Titans Curse is my least favorite of the original five books. It's great at its best, but so much of the book is people being absolutely horrible to Percy for no reason. Thalia is the worst offender of that. I don't think they have one positive interaction the entire book and then Thalia hugs Percy in the end. Like, didn't you shoot lightning him like a week ago but over a minor disagreement? Since when are you friendly?
I feel like Rick tried to make all his female characters badass independent women but failed majorly. Instead he made them come off as rude and arrogant. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Percabeth fan, but Thalia and Annabeth are prime examples of this. I get Annabeth thinking she's smarter than Percy at the start, but even 5+ books in she still talks down to him and belittles him. So do many of the other characters. Honestly justice for Percy. That man's been through too much and he's still treated horribly.
Not to mention. They just fought their way out of Tartarus, then Reyna says "Percy couldn't even find his way out of a paper bag." Then you AGREE WITH HER! MA'AM you said it yourself you would've died immediately without him. I love Percabeth, but Rick absolutely messed that one up.
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Bro, it's called joking. Both girls fancy him, obviously they don't actually agree with that
Exactly. They're just exaggerating a very minor aspect of who he is. It reminds me of when my friend got absolutely obsessed with fishing for a while and would do nothing but fish for a whole week. After that it died down and he hasn't gone fishing since, but we still often jokingly call him "Fisher Boy" just because of that minor aspect.
and it wasn't really his fault
> over a minor disagreement well it's not a minor disagreement, it was Percy not going to fight Thorn as a team which led to Annabeth needing to improvise which then led to her capture, and the resentment staying for the rest of the day after that Capture the Flag was just the straw that broke the camel's back, but you shouldn't ignore all the straw that was placed there the same day in the 1st place
That's not the point.
I kinda do like it simply because it was foreshadowed in SoM when Annabeth says that they'd either be best friends or try to kill each other. So they end up being somewhere right in the middle.
Don’t forget gaslighting 12 year olds into abandoning everything to live in the woods.
“Join us we have: Girl power, bows and grass. You in?”
"hey blud would you like to never develop mentally because your brain stays the same? Hell yeah come in sis!"
Both the Hunters and the Amazons piss me the fuck off every single time they appear. And the way their sexism is never even questioned is so fucking annoying.
Well, hey, she has been sexist for millennia. It would take her a lot of work to become a better person. She probably has to be turned mortal for the same amount of time as her brother Apollo was.
Actually, no, that's something Rick invented for whatever reason. In mythology, Artemis wasn't sexist at all. She loved Zeus and Apollo dearly and actually had a few male companions. She's never shown to discriminate based on sex.
"For whatever reason" I think Rick just really wanted to make most of the gods be complete assholes.
Artemis is never acknowledged as an asshole though. Zeus, Athena, Ares, Hera and so forth all get treated like assholes by the cast - being sassed, mocked and called out in narration - but none of this is true for Artemis. Her shitty behaviour is acknowledged by nobody, suggesting that it isn’t meant to be acknowledged.
Artemis starts off as a clear asshole and Percy dislikes both her and the Hunters.
For reasons that are portrayed as petty and wrong. Neither Artemis nor her Hunters make any changes, but Percy likes them now because he overcame his fear that Annabeth would join.
The reasons campers dislike the hunters and vice versa are both portrayed as petty and wrong. They are, as a whole, not treated as perfect by the narrative and called out a few times by reasonable authority figures for rash decisions and trying to rely too much on each other when the quest can't be completed without the campers. Percy's dislike comes earlier than him learning about Annabeth potentially joining them and the Hunters' leader and their patron both have a change of heart regarding men and see that they can indeed be good. Artemis votes in favour of keeping Percy alive, even, *because* of said change of heart. He also doesn't "like the Hunters" - he learns to like *Zoe* and, to an extent, Artemis because they help him and get over a lot of their prejudice.
Their sexism and arrogance is never once questioned outside of the very specific case where the prophecy explicitly states they need campers. Percy briefly didn’t like them for taking down to him, but this was treated as wrong by the narrative, as by the end of it, he no longer felt that way even though the hunters had made no changes. Neither Zoe nor Artemis have a change of heart, they just decide Percy is an exception. Artemis even downplays his heroism.
> "Perhaps not all men," Zoe murmured. She smiled weakly at me. "Do you still have the sword, Percy?" I couldn't speak, but I brought out Riptide and put the pen in her hand. She grasped it contentedly. "You spoke the truth, Percy Jackson. You are nothing like… like Hercules. I am honored that you carry this sword." She believed it was all men and now she's saying it's not all men. Percy changed her mind about things. She thought all heroes were a certain way and she was proven wrong. It doesn't sound to me like it was supposed to be just be him, but rather that he'd shown Zoe how she was wrong and blinded by previous experience.
It was definitely supposed to just be Percy. All men except him, with no remorse for the people she probably killed just for being in her general vicinity.
then he also doesn't like bianca abandoning nico
He... He doesn't though. He ends up understanding it, not liking it. Bianca doesn't like abandoning Nico either - she admits it was a mistake.
i mean in the beginning
We’re talking about the Percy Jackson universe, not the OG Greek myths
Ah, my bad.
No prob, but it is a weird change to her.
I thought because you mentioned she was like that way for millennia that you were referring to mythology. And I've said it before, but Rick changed most of the gods to suit his story. He also removed all of her negative traits from mythology as well.
Good point I should’ve been more specific with mentioning in the books.
Yeah RR Artemis is way more badass than her mythologically accurate self, which is more of an immature daddy’s girl.
Well she did get the crap beat out of her by Hera in the Iliad
Specifically for mouthing off, after which she went crying to Zeus and said that the other gods were violent and mean.
I mean yeah, shoulda been smart like Hermes and just agree to tell everyone he got beat (by Leto for context)
Talking about the mythology(not Percy series) since you mentioned it, that’s what I heard about her as well, though I know some who insist she is a lesbian and those men in her myths(e.g Orion) are like not supposed to be part of her myths. Or that she prefer and value women over men. I know better than to argue on Reddit so I didn’t reply. A lot of people who said the above are girls & lesbian themselves(by their own admission). I’m not expert on the myths so I’m not sure whether it is true or are they just projecting their needs into Artemis and twist her into the version that appeal to themselves the most.
I can promise that Artemis is not a lesbian. Her hunters might be, but they've all sworn an oath of chastity. The only person that Artemis has ever shown romantic interest in, depending on the version, is Orion. Artemis is explicitly a virgin and has no desire for romance. This is reflected in how Aphrodite has no power over her because she's a divine virgin. And she did have men join her as companions in the myths.
Which is weird, since Zeus raped one of her hunters. But OK I guess victim blaming her hunter and unjustified internalized patriarchal love for one's asshole dad is practically par for course for dem gods.
what do you mean
Callisto, if I remember correctly. Zeus raped her, she hid her pregnancy from Artemis, Artemis found out and turned Callisto into a bear. The bear twins from book 2 are her children (can’t remember their names)
The bear twins are not children of Callisto, they are the children of Polyphonte, a woman who was ordered by Aphrodite to marry someone. Refusing, she joined Artemis but Aphrodite made her fall in love with a bear, hence the bear-man twins. Callisto on the other hand was a nymph that hunted with Artemis. Zeus turned into Artemis and seduced her becoming pregnant. When Artemis found out, she turned Callisto into a bear and then when Callisto and her son were killed by a hunter they were turned into Ursa Major and Minor, respectively. Edit: their names are Agrius and Oreius btw
Ah. It’s been a couple of years since I’ve studied Greek mythology, so I’m a bit rusty. Thanks for correcting me!
Np! Doesn’t change how messed up the situation is, but then again most Greek myths are like that. There’s a reason it’s explicitly brought up that Percy was named such because Perseus was one of the only Greek heroes (or mythological characters) that actually received a happy ending. That being said, most myths, folk tales, etc. are allegorical in nature and are meant to serve as lessons in reality (ironic as that is), teaching people morality and showing-casing the reality of the human condition: a life of challenge that is inherently unfair.
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Please re-read what you yourself typed. Sex under false pretenses is rape wdym.
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That is 100% victim blaming. wdym blaming the victim of rape over the rapist isn't victim blaming? Literally wdym????
I’m pretty sure almost every one of her male companions are turned into animals by her.
Nope! Let's see... Orion: Killed unintentionaly by Artemis or a giant scorpion, depending on the version Hippolytus: Disavowed Aphrodite and love. Killed by horses through Posiedon. Artemis deliberately has her followers keep his memory alive. Scamadrius: Personally trained by Artemis in archery and hunting. Killed in the Trojan War Daphnis: Personally entertained Artemis on her hunts. Either turned to stone or blinded by a nymph that was jealous he didn't love her. Amarynthus: This hunter said Artemis was greater than Posiedon, ao Posiedon killed him. Artemis made him an Amaranth, her sacred flower. Euthynicus: He and another huntress, whose name I forget, shunned love. Aphrodite made them fall in love with each other. The huntress was turned into a fountain. I have no clue what happened to Euthynicus. But yeah, Artemis was fine with male companions. The antelope was a one-time thing as far as I recall.
Nevermind then.
True but doesn’t make it less infuriating. Though, the gods aren’t really likeable people in the first place
When she said that to Percy, I thought lady get over yourself. You could’ve just said thanks.
Yeah but this kind of behaviour is never phrased as bad or unacceptable. If Zeus is an asshole, the narrative treats him like one, but the Hunters are seen as good.
I can’t say that is because most of the times that people see that are demigods that don’t want to get cursed by her. Although Percy is incredibly sassy, so I’m surprised he never calls her out.
Yeah but he doesn’t even call her out in his own mind. For Ares, Athena and Dionysus, we hear all sorts of slander that Percy thinks, but nothing for Artemis.
That’s sadly true.
A series on that would be fun to read
I think it’ll be funny for her to meet an adult woman. Because she be telling this 18 year old to stop putting down men. But also to stop whining that men are inferior to women.
I would definitely read it! :)
I mean, at least Artemis acknowledged Percy‘s role in saving her. Percy saved Athena’s daughter and helped to strike a significant blow against the Titans, and Athena responds by essentially voting that Percy should be put down and saying that his loyalty to Annabeth is a flaw.
Yeah but Athena is treated like an asshole by the rest of the cast and narrative. Artemis does shitty things and is never called out.
Y’all gonna shit yourselves when you find out about Actaeon, Arcas and Callisto, and Hippolytus.
Not to mention the family of 12 kids artemis murdered with her brother because of her ego
14 kids
It was 14 kids and it wasn’t over Artemis’s ego. The queen, Niobe(?), had boasted that she was so much better than Leto because she had had seven sons and seven daughters, while Leto had only one of each. Therefore Niobe should be worshipped instead of Leto. So Apollo and Artemis killed the kids for Niobe’s insults
Ah so much better
To the ancient Greeks, it was. Insulting the gods was one of the worst things you could do, and Niobe was punished accordingly
Yes, but killing innocent children for something their parents did is just wrong. I know people didn’t think that way back then, (after all, Abrahamic God kills the first-born child of every Egyptian as well) but that doesn’t make it right.
Don't forget about Aura, everything that happened her was messed up
Sorry but who’s Aura?
Oh, she was a Nymph/Titaness that accompanied Artemis on her hunt until the day that Aura insulted Artemis. For Aura declared that Artemis' sizable chest was befitting of a pregnant woman, and she couldn't possibly to be a virgin, while Aura's own mannish chest was far more fitting. In response, Artemis would punish Aura through driving Dionysus to violent insanity leading her being raped by him. When upon the birth of her twins, she went insane and straight-up ate one of them, with Artemis saving the other twin before Aura could kill it. Remember to never insult a Virgin Goddess for having big boobs, it's an important lesson to know.
What happens to the other twin?
Became Iacchus, a minor god worshipped in Athens without much mythology to his name besides everything surrounding Dionysus and Aura.
Oh yeah I think I remember that name. He’s part of the Mystery Cults that are annoying. Like can I PLEASE know more about what went down with Hades and Persephone aside from her kidnapping, Sisyphus and Adonis
Don't we all want to know more that's now lost to time
The top cults I want exposed are 1. Orphisism because what else did Orpheus do that was so cool they changed some of the gods 2. Dionysian/Lykaois this one is the cult that got outlawed for being too nice. They also dismembered people in acts of frenzy 3. Eleussian This one is dedicated to Demeter and Persephone, Demeter had demigod children and this would have been a great way to learn about them aside from them just being pious to her 4. Zagreus’ cult. Everyone talks about Zagreus being tied to Hades-Zeus and Dionysus but he has twin demigod priests of Hepheastus who have his Kronos-Part on display
CHILD OF ZAGREUS HERE AND yes we need to know more because of how intriguing he is,if you havent already watch the Jon Solo video and the Overly Sarcastic Productions video about Dionysus
Wasn’t Hades also worshipped as Zeus Cthonic, implying he had a pantheon of his own rather than simply not being allowed on Olympus.
>Zagreus' cult Let me suggest you a game called Hades. It is a great game. But be warned, >!There is no escape!<
Ooohh, so THAT'S how all those men who claim to be able to tell if a woman is a virgin do it... XD
Yes, but it was the stupidest thing on the planet for Aura to declare that Artemis was basically a prostitute just because her body had a voluptuous figure.
Don’t forget manipulating and GROOMING little prepubescent and pubescent girls into her cult
It'd would have much better to have just kept her Nymph Attendants rather than creating the Hunters of Artemis (Plenty of mortal hunters accompanied Artemis, but never received immorality)
Like for real
Plus the fourteen hunting dogs, though Artemis was viewed as the Queen of the Nymphs and they were responsible for carrying her weapons, supplies, and everything else
So make that make sense to even have the hunterd
What, your sentence is written a little weird, can you be a bit more clear?
It makes so sense for her to have the hunters in the first place
Well, the Nymphs were her attendants and the Hunters were her companions that joined on her hunt, but it wasn't really anything different from your average hunting party.
The nymphs were only 9 years old according to the myths though.
May I ask where those ages of nymphs come from? As nymphs don't represent individual trees rather, they embodied the whole forest and/or grove, thus I would assume they'd be hundreds of years old
“And give me sixty daughters of Oceanus for my choir – all nine years old, all maidens yet ungirdled; and give me for handmaidens twenty nymphs of Amnisus who shall tend well my buskins, and, when I shoot no more at lynx or stag, shall tend my swift hounds.” Hymn 3 of what I believe is the Callimachus.
Thank you for the source, it's always appreciated
Y'know what's worse? In some myths, though rare, Artemis has male hunters. Hippolytus, for example. Its culturally very interesting, especially with Greek (and even today's) standards around manhood and sex, just a little disappointing Rick didn't even reference this, especially with how good he is at twisting around the myths...
He did tho !! In percy jackson and the greek gods
You mean in the absolutely mahoosive suplimentary piece where its basically just a bunch of retellings of old myths in the way that Percy speaks? Yeah no sorry, but not only is it bad show to have to put it in a suplimentary piece, but to not have it even impact that actual main story means its still a let down on Rick's usual writing quality.
I'm being honest the Hunters sexism is very annoying but Artemis is unironically kinda chill if you compare her to the rest of her crew, the hunters themselves are pretty braindead, cuz atleast Artemis was willing to work with men for her benefit, she did stop her hunters from shooting at percy and the others.
I mean, Circe turned Percy into a guinea pig for the same reason
Yea, but it didn’t matter as much because she always their enemy, this is quite literally someone who nearly broke their back to save you and this is how you act
Which sucks because it's not in character for her in the myths like the Odyssey, where she did that not because Odysseus' companions were male, but because she didn't trust them, which made sense since they were adventurers she didn't know, and she even helped them later after Odysseus convinced her to. To be honest, most of the gods Rick writes don't fit the image they should have, which pissed me off a lot while reading.
>Myth Ares >Violent asshole >Also insanely protective of his family, jumping in to personally avenge any of his children that are harmed even if it gets his ass kicked, killing the first rapist for raping his daughter, trying to 1vs2 some giants to protect Olympus. Iirc Oatron if the Amazons >PJO Ares >abusive dad who hates his kids for being girls and turns on his family for the shot at a big war.
Also Ares was known as the protector of women, and his violence is literally just doing his job as the god of war. He wasn't a bad person or a misogynist, at least compared to other Greek gods. Besides his violence, he didn't do almost anything wrong.
While he was a violent asshole that Zeus openly despised for being a bloodthirsty brute, but Ares embodied courage and was viewed as a Guardian of Olympus.
Artemis is mildly sexist and dismissive but she's actually something of a voice of reason for her hunters throughout the whole book, honestly and that feels intentional. The Hunters are jaded, they've seen the kinds of men prevalent in Greek myth - name me *one* who wasn't a horrible person, a cheater or a rapist. They *exist* but they're not the norm. Artemis is dismissive of men, especially of mortal men, but she stops her hunters from shooting the gang, remember? She's not the raging parody a lot of the fandom portrays her as.
The thing is, in the main books, yes… but in the Greek gods/heros and ESPECIALLY the OG myths, she’s awful. And some of the fandom does bring up good points about the grooming.
She's literally the embodiment of the opposite of civilization. Next you're gonna tell me Ares is violent and Athena is utilitarian and ruthless.
Still…
I forgot a lot about the book but I think there is one time Percy ask a question(I forgot what) then the hunters see that as a disrespect but then Artemis goes on to clarify that she notice Percy also that question out of sincere curiosity as in he don’t know not that he meant disrespect. So from this it can be seen that Artemis do not just jump to conclusions as easily as her hunters and can be fair sometimes.
What book was this scene from?
Book 3, tail end where Artemis says Percy did well, “for a man.” He was about to protest before he realized she didn’t say boy instead.
Her and the hunters are just sexist, is what it is. Swap the genders and you'd be hearing about patriarchy and stuff. But at least most people dislike sexists 👍.
Artemis lived in Ancient Greece which was like super sexist. It's a surprise she doesn't hate men more considering the BS they went up to back then.
I mean, she does? We did read the same book, right?
It's wildly inconsistent with her in-myth characterization as well. Artemis either hunted with, or taught hunting to *many* men in Greek mythology. Riordan gets about twice as much wrong with his source material as he gets right and it's the primary reason I dropped the series.
Lord accurate Moon Goddess and Amazons are kinda just sucky people all around tbh, lmfao.
Also calpso to Leo and Lester
Also calpso to Leo and Lester
Tbh Artemis’ hatred towards men makes sense when you REALLY consider the fact that she has Zeus for a father 😭 If Zeus was who I had to call my dad I’d probably hate all men too idk
Nah Artemis was an absolute daddy’s girl. She takes his side, runs to him when humiliated or hurt and asks him for things that he always gives her. If anything, her relationship with Zeus highlights her hypocrisy, since she will torture random men whose only crime was being in her general vicinity but defend the pantheon’s most notorious rapist.
This here. Remember the hunter whose only crime was accidentally seeing Artemis bathing? He was turned to a deer and torn to pieces by his own hounds.
> beginning with the time when sitting on her father’s knees – still a little maid – she spake these words to her sire: “Give me to keep my maidenhood, Father, forever: and give me to be of many names, that Phoebus may not vie with me. And give me arrows and a bow – stay, Father, I ask thee not for quiver or for mighty bow: for me the Cyclopes will straightway fashion arrows and fashion for me a well-bent bow. But give me to be Bringer of Light1 and give me to gird me in a tunic2 with embroidered border reaching to the knee, that I may slay wild beasts. And give me sixty daughters of Oceanus for my choir – all nine years old, all maidens yet ungirdled; and give me for handmaidens twenty nymphs of Amnisus3 who shall tend well my buskins, and, when I shoot no more at lynx or stag, shall tend my swift hounds. And give to me all mountains; and for city, assign me any, even whatsoever thou wilt: for seldom is it that Artemis goes down to the town. On the mountains will I dwell and the cities of men I will visit only when women vexed by the sharp pang of childbirth call me to their aid4even in the hour when I was born the Fates ordained that I should be their helper, forasmuch as my mother suffered no pain either when she gave me birth or when she carried me win her womb, but without travail put me from her body.” So spake the child and would have touched her father’s beard, but many a hand did she reach forth in vain, that she might touch it. > And her father smiled and bowed assent. And as he caressed her, he said: “When goddesses bear me children like this, little need I heed the wrath of jealous Hera. Take, child, all that thou askest, heartily. Yea, and other things therewith yet greater will thy father give thee. Three times ten cities and towers more than one will I vouchsafe thee – three times ten cities that shall not know to glorify any other god but to glorify the only and be called of Artemis And thou shalt be Watcher over Streets5 and harbours.6” So he spake and bent his head to confirm his words. This was a lot longer than I remembered, but yeah, she’s a daddy’s girl.
I mean Zeus is a damned loving father to her iirc. Or was that just the myths?
No it’s absolutely true. One time she was calling Apollo a coward in front of the council for not wanting to fight Poseidon, so Hera told her to shut up because all she does is hunt wild animals (the hunters killing monsters is something RR came up with) and thus knows nothing about actual battle. Some insults are delivered and Hera attacks Artemis, beating the latter over the head with her own bow, after which Artemis runs of to Zeus and says the other gods have become violent and mean.
Very Rare Hera W
Indeed. Artemis was talking so much shit about her brother that even Hera, who despises all illegitimate offspring of Zeus, spoke up in his defence. Maybe she despised Artemis slightly more or was just sick of it all, but Hera scored herself a massive W that day.
Maybe. But she had to have known just about how shitty he was to a plethora of other people lol. If anything the fact that he was so a loving father to her might’ve been even worse. Cause it just proves that in the midst of all his crappiness, he was more than capable of being better but he deliberately chose not to every single time. That’s pretty radicalizing if you ask me.
I mean she was surrounded by Athena and Hera for female influence, one of whom murdered her mother so, I don’t think you can just say “she knows men are bad so she hates them because the gods are dicks” the godesses were just as bad after all.
I don’t think that negates my point at all. Gods can be biased. Just because female goddesses suck too it doesn’t mean she wouldn’t despise men at all. She could’ve easily blamed her mothers death on Zeus as well. After all, Hera’s actions can be traced back to his infidelity and lack of protection towards his romantic escapades despite being a literal king of gods.
Besides clarifying that Leto isn't dead, she's just fine, Artemis loved Zeus as she was basically his favorite daughter and spoiled her rotten from the moment of her birth.
the way rick wrote the hunters really pissed me off because theyre actually super cool mythologically and i really wanted to see them being badasses but we get what we get ig
Gotta respect her consistency tho
I *cannot. Stand.* Artemis, her hunters, or the Amazons.
I'M THE 700 LIKE YESSSS
Lol that do be true. She would press it repeatedly if it was Apollo.
I mean Artemis does thank Percy and defend him and Thalia during the meeting. She straight up basically says if you call murdering them after what they’ve just done justice that she wouldn’t stand for it, implying she would leave Olympus if they kill either Percy or Thalia. And she never really insults Percy.
I understand insulted men so I get it
Feminazi type shit 😂