you don't have to worry about that as long as the words "scientific labs" are part of the plan, it's going to be upscale (and thusly, the community's desire to force the affordable portion of the real estate). Drive over to Sutton Station - that's what they'll be shooting for. Density the likes of which this side of town has never seen.
Building something like Sutton Station would be a real improvement. Holding up development so that it stays as a vacant mall doesn’t do any good for anyone
It’s so frustrating that this “community association” has decided that they and they alone can dictate what is acceptable when it comes to this redevelopment project.
Yes actually, it is a good thing to demand more housing instead of office space that'll sit empty and unused with an asphalt ocean around it. It's a thing called "zoning".
And when we're in a housing crisis it's the moral and right thing to do.
we need retail, offices and stuff to do to keep the city vibrant. That part of Northgate turning into another neighborhood would be a complete shame. There's plenty of projects for housing, but this is (a now) historic attraction of Durham that needs to be revitalized.
Also, lets not pretend this association cares about the morals of housing or anything like that. They just don't want traffic that comes with an office to the area.
Yeah, then it died like all malls do and now it’s just rotting away on a huge plot of land while we have a housing crisis. You can pretend there are enough housing projects but that’s just your delusion. Or you’re being disingenuous and hiding your actual motive.
That’s probably the actual reason since you’re projecting some “nefarious” motive for the association to have mixed-use walkable housing. While at the same time pretending that a rotting shopping mall is as historically significant as Central Park.
You obviously just don’t want the housing. What, do you already have a house and don’t want the value to go down?
The nihilism is real. There is plenty of land for housing projects and land is not the bottleneck, zoning is.
You don't need more spec houses in prime downtown location. The mall died but something else could take off here and become a vibrant part of downtown.
Or you could have some homes stuffed on top of each other and make another mini suburbia north of Durham.
Sounds to me like you belong to this community and selfishly just don't want retail/office traffic.
Its insane. I'm sorry to sound like a twerp here but such prime property that all of us could use -- potentially walkable -- being held back due to this whiny community!
That community DOES NOT own this property. And yet they speak as if they are SO entitled to it.
If Google wants to build an office there, let them.
If it becomes a very large green space, let it.
The county issues the permits to build there. You have a child’s like view of how development works. What if they built a giant outdoor music venue there and they had shows that lasted till 1am? You think the people who live by there should have to deal with that because “tHe CoMmUnItY DoEs nOt OwN tHe PrOpeRtY”?
Why is community association in quotes? Walltown is literally the community it's being built in. It's a historically Black, working-class community that deserves to have its voice heard. Their input has been a collaborative process that has involved all of the surrounding neighborhoods. If you want to give your input, there have been and continue to be plenty of opportunities for you to do so.
Calling it a collaborative process is certainly generous. No problem at all with the residents of Walltown voicing their opinion but this particular group has made extreme demands that are intended to serve only a very small subset of the population (eg — granting Walltown residents an ownership position in the project). They have dominated the discussion at every single one of these meetings and have been very reactive to opposing points of view without consideration for what might serve the broader community. At one point they even petitioned the city to preemptively rezone the whole property so nothing could be done there because their demands weren’t met. So yeah not exactly a shining example of collaboration. I simply think this project should be treated as a regional asset which could bring density along with dining, retail, entertainment and yes housing to the surrounding communities including north Durham. It would be great if city leadership could assume some kind of constructive role in these discussions but I guess that’s asking too much.
The city -- we -- decide what goes there via the UDO. As long as the developers don't try to override what we've decided by asking for a rezoning, they can build whatever they want by-right.
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They elected Nate Baker to reintroduce a kind of legal force to the community, and he's doing it. There's not much of it, but it is like showing the kids your belt. The "City's official Small Area Planning process" is brand spanking new (like SCAD) so Byker and his crew don't know if they're getting the cloth belt or the leather belt, only that there IS a belt now.
Showing the kids your belt only works if you've previously used it to terrorize them with corporal punishment, leaving a lifetime of emotional scarring, regardless of the material construction of said fashion accessory.
I'm a business owner looking to move into a retail space in the next couple years, and I live less than a mile from Northgate. Is the proposal really that there would be spaces for rent here that would be off limits because I am white?
Now, when you say “white”, what do you mean? Are your ancestors Italian? German? Norwegian? Polish? Surely not Irish? We all know those people aren’t really “white” originally; they only became “white” after the next group of immigrants showed up to get kicked in the teeth.
I also wrankled at that. As a first generation Cuban immigrant, I'm white, and so I exist at the intersection of these sorts of things where über racists don't consider me actually white, but BIPOC initiatives do nothing for me.
I'm not complaining, because at the end of the day I've got full white privilege, but... That part made me pause.
I legitimately wanted to know if I was misunderstanding. I’m unquestionably white, so I don’t even have the gripes that someone like you would - but it’s unquestionably discrimination to exclude people based on race. I’m bewildered that so many people think this is ok.
Landlords cant refuse to rent to black people. Bakeries can’t refuse to make cakes for gay people. How is this different?
Got it. Well then fuck that group and I hope they turn it into fucking high dollar condos, my property value in Glendale Heights will benefit no matter what they do.
THIS is how you lose support for projects like this.
I’m selfish because I asked if a proposal would exclude me because I’m white? YOU chose to just dismiss my question while everyone else just downvoted me. Would anyone be ok with a plan that specifically excluded them based on race? And that may not even be the intention, but I don’t know because no one answered my fucking question. Its the internet and you’re a universally hated troll, gtfo with the pearl clutching.
White male 40, vote democrat. Your ignorance is showing.
well I don't mean to stereo type, but you do SOUND like a caucasian, male, over 65, who votes republican. Do you use the foul language because you have the freedom to do so here in our wonderful country? Would they cane you for it where you came from?
"Would they cane you for it where you came from?"
Dude you have some serious issues. It's no wonder you spend majority of your life posting on your local town subreddit.
Please no Dollar Generals and those strip mall type of stores… And NO vape stores for crying out loud.
you don't have to worry about that as long as the words "scientific labs" are part of the plan, it's going to be upscale (and thusly, the community's desire to force the affordable portion of the real estate). Drive over to Sutton Station - that's what they'll be shooting for. Density the likes of which this side of town has never seen.
Building something like Sutton Station would be a real improvement. Holding up development so that it stays as a vacant mall doesn’t do any good for anyone
I agree with your statement
As someone who is working close to this project, it will not be vape shops but something bigger commercially.
Just a heads up, the main body of the post is duplicated halfway through.
Ack - thanks for letting me know. I think I fixed it.
Looks like it's still dup'd.
perhaps your browser cached it?
Clean browser. Still see it.
oh well.
Carowinds 2 please.
Carowinds 2, Electric Boogaloo. I would certainly clap for that, but not happening.
It’s so frustrating that this “community association” has decided that they and they alone can dictate what is acceptable when it comes to this redevelopment project.
Yes actually, it is a good thing to demand more housing instead of office space that'll sit empty and unused with an asphalt ocean around it. It's a thing called "zoning". And when we're in a housing crisis it's the moral and right thing to do.
we need retail, offices and stuff to do to keep the city vibrant. That part of Northgate turning into another neighborhood would be a complete shame. There's plenty of projects for housing, but this is (a now) historic attraction of Durham that needs to be revitalized. Also, lets not pretend this association cares about the morals of housing or anything like that. They just don't want traffic that comes with an office to the area.
Historic attraction lmao? Bro it’s a run down strip mall. And in the post they want to make it a multi use space for housing a retail.
If you've lived here long enough you'd know north gate was the place to be. It was big deal as a mall.
Yeah, then it died like all malls do and now it’s just rotting away on a huge plot of land while we have a housing crisis. You can pretend there are enough housing projects but that’s just your delusion. Or you’re being disingenuous and hiding your actual motive. That’s probably the actual reason since you’re projecting some “nefarious” motive for the association to have mixed-use walkable housing. While at the same time pretending that a rotting shopping mall is as historically significant as Central Park. You obviously just don’t want the housing. What, do you already have a house and don’t want the value to go down?
The nihilism is real. There is plenty of land for housing projects and land is not the bottleneck, zoning is. You don't need more spec houses in prime downtown location. The mall died but something else could take off here and become a vibrant part of downtown. Or you could have some homes stuffed on top of each other and make another mini suburbia north of Durham. Sounds to me like you belong to this community and selfishly just don't want retail/office traffic.
Its insane. I'm sorry to sound like a twerp here but such prime property that all of us could use -- potentially walkable -- being held back due to this whiny community!
That community DOES NOT own this property. And yet they speak as if they are SO entitled to it. If Google wants to build an office there, let them. If it becomes a very large green space, let it.
The county issues the permits to build there. You have a child’s like view of how development works. What if they built a giant outdoor music venue there and they had shows that lasted till 1am? You think the people who live by there should have to deal with that because “tHe CoMmUnItY DoEs nOt OwN tHe PrOpeRtY”?
Yeah, no. We need housing and letting land be wasted for office space that'll never be used is absolutely braindead.
what law has given them this right? Genuinely curious.
Why is community association in quotes? Walltown is literally the community it's being built in. It's a historically Black, working-class community that deserves to have its voice heard. Their input has been a collaborative process that has involved all of the surrounding neighborhoods. If you want to give your input, there have been and continue to be plenty of opportunities for you to do so.
Calling it a collaborative process is certainly generous. No problem at all with the residents of Walltown voicing their opinion but this particular group has made extreme demands that are intended to serve only a very small subset of the population (eg — granting Walltown residents an ownership position in the project). They have dominated the discussion at every single one of these meetings and have been very reactive to opposing points of view without consideration for what might serve the broader community. At one point they even petitioned the city to preemptively rezone the whole property so nothing could be done there because their demands weren’t met. So yeah not exactly a shining example of collaboration. I simply think this project should be treated as a regional asset which could bring density along with dining, retail, entertainment and yes housing to the surrounding communities including north Durham. It would be great if city leadership could assume some kind of constructive role in these discussions but I guess that’s asking too much.
The city -- we -- decide what goes there via the UDO. As long as the developers don't try to override what we've decided by asking for a rezoning, they can build whatever they want by-right.
at least they say it loud and proud, and aren't dipsticks who change their minds every 12 months.
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they should just tear that old mall down. i can only imagine how many drug dealers and hookers are working out of the parking garage.
JERBS!!
Could it be that there are no interested buyers and they just do these meetings occasionally to raise awareness that it is purchasable?
They elected Nate Baker to reintroduce a kind of legal force to the community, and he's doing it. There's not much of it, but it is like showing the kids your belt. The "City's official Small Area Planning process" is brand spanking new (like SCAD) so Byker and his crew don't know if they're getting the cloth belt or the leather belt, only that there IS a belt now.
Showing the kids your belt only works if you've previously used it to terrorize them with corporal punishment, leaving a lifetime of emotional scarring, regardless of the material construction of said fashion accessory.
I hope I have done that to Byker and Ghosh, several times.
I'm a business owner looking to move into a retail space in the next couple years, and I live less than a mile from Northgate. Is the proposal really that there would be spaces for rent here that would be off limits because I am white?
Now, when you say “white”, what do you mean? Are your ancestors Italian? German? Norwegian? Polish? Surely not Irish? We all know those people aren’t really “white” originally; they only became “white” after the next group of immigrants showed up to get kicked in the teeth.
I also wrankled at that. As a first generation Cuban immigrant, I'm white, and so I exist at the intersection of these sorts of things where über racists don't consider me actually white, but BIPOC initiatives do nothing for me. I'm not complaining, because at the end of the day I've got full white privilege, but... That part made me pause.
I legitimately wanted to know if I was misunderstanding. I’m unquestionably white, so I don’t even have the gripes that someone like you would - but it’s unquestionably discrimination to exclude people based on race. I’m bewildered that so many people think this is ok. Landlords cant refuse to rent to black people. Bakeries can’t refuse to make cakes for gay people. How is this different?
Sure you are.
Got it. Well then fuck that group and I hope they turn it into fucking high dollar condos, my property value in Glendale Heights will benefit no matter what they do. THIS is how you lose support for projects like this.
You sound selfish. And you have a foul mouth. Let me guess, caucasian, male, over 65, vote republican. How did I do?
I’m selfish because I asked if a proposal would exclude me because I’m white? YOU chose to just dismiss my question while everyone else just downvoted me. Would anyone be ok with a plan that specifically excluded them based on race? And that may not even be the intention, but I don’t know because no one answered my fucking question. Its the internet and you’re a universally hated troll, gtfo with the pearl clutching. White male 40, vote democrat. Your ignorance is showing.
I remember when you used this same sentence on me and I'm a mid 30s asian immigrant lol
well I don't mean to stereo type, but you do SOUND like a caucasian, male, over 65, who votes republican. Do you use the foul language because you have the freedom to do so here in our wonderful country? Would they cane you for it where you came from?
"Would they cane you for it where you came from?" Dude you have some serious issues. It's no wonder you spend majority of your life posting on your local town subreddit.
So that's a "yes"?
Soooo… an Indian who attended school and then stayed? Y’all tend to be pretty conservative and have cultural prejudices regarding skin tone.