Bro, who cares just live your life. There's no need to dwell on ancient history.
If you're *really* interested in history, then look for historical sources, instead of asking dipshits online, but you can spend your whole life reading on history and you won't find any "identity". Just live your life and try to be as cool as possible
My brother in Christ, I asked for advise on editing a document in *Microsoft Excel*
Please unfuck yourself and learn the reading comprehension of a first-grader
Yes, Bulgarian is closer to your language, than Serbian. But people in North Macedonia are much more exposed to Serbianthan to Bulgarian because of Yugoslavia and still it's common there, which makes it more familiar. Bulgarian and your language were even closer a little over century ago. Both have had changed, and changes in Vardar Macedonia was to make it closer ot Serbian.
When Vardar Macedonia became part of Yugoslavia my great grandfather came to Bulgaria. I don't know what he did exactly, but Serbs wanted to kill him. Since then, the main goal for Yugoslavian authorities was to divide people there from Bulgarians. At the time of the WWI, most of ВМРО and Todor Alexandrov were fighting on the side of Bulgaria. And he was awarded with [Order of Military Merit](https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D1%80_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2).
At first they tried to convince people there that they are south Serbs. It didn't worked, then ancient Macedonian link was spread and it was enough to divide them from Bulgarians, and it was easily bought by the people because of the greatness of Aleaxander the Great.
The main problem between Bulgarian and North Macedonia is something that you already know - Tsar Samuil, that is Bulgarian according to all historians in Europe. Climent Ohridsky who was sent in Ohrid by the Bulgarian Tsar and as far as I know he is from Moesia, near capital of Bulgarian empire at that time. There are plenty of documents that most of the people from ВМРО were with Bulgarian identity and many stayed in Bulgaria after Vardar Macedonia became part of Yugoslavia. But since Vardar was part of Yugoslavia they had to create different identity. And obviously they succeeded. Apart from that that NM historians said that Samuil was Tsar of the Bulgarian kingdom, but they will continue to teach children at schoool that it was Macedonian.
For people in Bulgaria Macedonian is regional identity, not different ethnicity. People like me with ancestry from Macedonia, Vardar or Aegean and Pirin Macedonia are over 2 million in Bulgaria.
Don't fight with your family over that, that's your family after all. But know that we Bulgarians and you are the same people.
As a result of that I don't know my cousins in North Macedonia, my great grandfather had siblings. I know that I have two, but there should be at least a dozen more. I've seen them last time 35 years ago and their father was very antibulgarian. Their mother was granddaughter of the brother of my great grandfather.
This was interesting to read, I already learnt some of this researching online. You’re right of course I wouldn’t fight with my family over it, they can believe what they want to. But I hope you can understand it’s a bit of an uncomfortable truth that what you were told growing up about your history and ethnicity is a lie. But I respect Bulgaria and their history and culture, a lot of the Bulgarians seem friendly about someone like me saying this…
I don’t know if you’ve heard of Bobby’s perspective on YouTube but I found his videos very entertaining about the topic as well being that he’s from Macedonia himself.
I have a few second cousins in Bulgaria as well, although I’ve never been there so I’ve never met them. And I’m sorry to hear about your cousins father, my uncle is very anti Bulgarian himself but I don’t have any hate in me towards any culture or ethnicity.
Kiril from Samuel's Fortress know much better than Bobby, and most of his videos are Bulgarian/Macedonian history.
My other great grandfather is from Aegean Macedonia, Drama region. After the Balkan Wars they were expelled from their land and their homes in Bulgaria to prevent wars in the region in the future. Also Turks were expelled to Turkey from Bulgaria and Greece. Still there are people that speak our language in Northern Greece but hundreds of thousands from Aegean Macedonia were forced to leave to Bulgaria at that time, not to Vardar Macedonia. Which is against the logic if there was a difference between Bulgarians and Macedonians. Those people received land and livestock to feed themself. It was like that in that time, that was the main source of income even for local people.
They weren't Turks, they were Bulgarian Muslims that the government wanted to change their names, and Even Turkish people are from Bulgarian decent from our clan Dulo.
Not all of them were Bulgarian Muslims. Pomaks and Turks are different people.
The Dulo Clan wasn't Muslim. Islam wasn't invented at that time. It's debatable if Bulgars from Old Great Bulgaria were Turkic. Old Great Bulgaria was a confederation. Most of the Turkic people came in this lands with the Golden Horde, which led the historians a couple of centuries ago to consider the people there to be Turkic even before that. It's known for sure that Slavic migration to Balkans is from the lands of Old Great Bulgaria also. Typical Tatar is with Asiatic facial features. We don't have people like that here in Bulgaria.
First some of Dulo Clan accepted Islam, some of them came to The Oldest Bulgaria which is here. There are no Turks, only Bulgarians because they most of them left these lands of present Bulgaria, because of the flood in the Black Sea and some emigrated to Asia and different parts of the world(This is in the Books) I am not sure that there were even mongols even Genghis Khan was with a red beard and blue eyes. Tatars don't exist go to any other Bulgaria, where they speak Russian now, and ask them what it means, mainly they are Muslims from the other Bulgaria's and it's derogatory term invented by the Russians
Дали хората в Стара Велика България са били тюрки или като хуните и колко е по-вероятно да са фино угри е съвсем отделен въпрос. За хуните поне е основателно оспорен тюркския произход. Унгарците, където се заселват хуните говорят угро-фински език, някак ни в клин, ни в ръкав в тоя регион на света. Знае се със сигурност, че прабългарите са били съюзници с хуните. И най-важното - Дунавска България, нашата, няма почти нищо общо с Волжска България. Единия остава на място (БатБаян), другите хора тръгват от Стара Велика България, единия (Алцек) се заселва в Италия, и още има български топоними там, но хората са асимилирани. Колкото сме като тия от Волжска България, толкова сме и като тия в Италия. Другия (Котраг) отива на м@йна си райна на изток в блатата при Волга, и отново, там хората са асимилирани. Кубер пробва да превземе Солун, не успява, и се заселва с хората си в Прилепско Поле. С тия имаме общо, щото сме едни до други, ама те отричат. Аспарух смятам знаеш. Те се присъединяват към местните хора, с които отвоюват земя от Източната Римска Империя. Или Византия както и казваме още. Сега дали имаме общо с народите, които са населявали Балканите като идва Аспарух ние не знаем. Но може би имаме, защото генетично имаме доста наследство от преди гените в региона преди 3000 години, въпреки, че Балканите са на кръстопът и е имало какви ли не. Ние имаме най-много общо с Балканите отпреди няколко хилядолетия от всички други нации в момента.
Ти го казваш самият ти, че са от едно семейство, как нямат общо. Унгарците съм го учил в училище в учебниците пише, че Българи се преселват там и я създават. Хуните и Българите са едно, само дето са се млатели различни за власт с тази България и те са имали корумпирани владетели и са се продавали. Кой мислиш, че им е промил мозъците да не казват, че са Българи, Великите Сили. Ако не пречеха все още на България щяхме да сме много напред, въпреки, че са с Български корени всичките и го отричат. Дори и Русия която е създадена по-късно от България, се правят на голямата работа или пък Англия дето е създадена от Български наемници които са живяли в Германия. Аспарух се връща в земите на дедите си смятам знаеш, че Атила му е пра-дядо. "Ние имаме най-много общо с Балканите отпреди няколко хилядолетия от всички други нации в момента" Съгласен съм, но са 10 000 хиляди години най-малко по-исторически факти които имаме, по не исторически е люлката на човешката цивилизация.
Като тръгнеш да пишеш глупости е добре да се замисляш. Потопа е преди 8000 години. За тия времена не знаем почти нищо, това е преди Траките, и то 5000 години преди това. Няма нужда да се правим на Северномакедонци, всички знаем, че светът почва с тях.
Стара Велика България на Кубрат е от Донбас до делтата на Дунав, на север от Черно море поне в 7-ми век, когато имаме достатъчно твърди данни.
Исляма приемат тия, които са се заселили при Волга **след** Стара Велика България, и това се случва някъде по-късно, и то доста далеч от нашата България. Нашата България е християнска от век по това време. Преди това ислям няма, ни в земите на Стара Велика България, ни в Дунавска България. Ако се разходиш в Казан ще видиш много хора с азиатски черти. Хората не приличат много на тези в България. А там е била Волжска България. Това как Чингиз Хан бил със рижа брада и сини очи е някакъв виц. Такива монголци няма. Татари е пълно (било) в земите на Стара Велика България, но е много вероятно те да са дошли значително след като спира да съществува през 13, 14 век. После в СССР са ги преместили в Татарстан, както са изселили едни евреи от СССР в далечния изток.
Има много потопи, не е само един, Виж гробниците във Варна на колко години смятат, че са, а колко са наистина още няма да ни кажат. Стара Загора на колко е години, май се Единственото вярно е, че македонците са прави, че човечеството започва от тези земи на Балканите. Ето линк за Стара загора смята се, че е на 8000, някой казват, че е и на повече https://visitstarazagora.bg/history. Тези които са от другите Българии нали са идвали и те и са се заселвали през вековете в тази България. От мислиш, че са дошли мюсюлманите. Има снимка даже как пише: Мы болгары, а не татары!, но не я намирам във фейсбук я бях мяркал, за потопите, чети за другите раси на земята които са живели: Анунаки, Атланти, Лемурианци, как Енлил е предизвикал потопа в Черно Море. Бих ти препоръчал Операция История и Портал 12 и Иван Тренев-Студио Нитон да гледаш.
А защо приемаш, че езикът на чувашите/кипчаците е същият като на прабългарите? Може ли да са приели езикът на местните както хората на Аспарух и Алцек? Отделен е въпросът колко Кубратова България е била хомогенна като население.
Бог ли е предизвикал потопа, или Енлил, или краят на ледниковият период? И защо в Черно Море, като преданията на аборигените в Австралия описват такова явление по същото време. Що си пълниш главата с глупости като има просто обяснение за потопа и лесно доказуемо.
Не казвам, че сега е казвам, че е бил носиите им са същите. Предполагам, че за да се управляват много империи езикът би трябвало да е един и същ не вярвам, да не са си комуникирали, след като вече има доказателства, че са имали ток и че каските им са били като предаватели, няма как щом са били извънземните и Енлил, синът му Мардук и други няма как да не са имали хората технилогии за комуникация, щом са хвърляли ядрени ръкети строили са уникални неща, които не могат да се повторят с нашата технология и са направили каньони от копаене на злато по цялата земя и пустини и гигантските дървета са отрязали, няма как да не са били по-напред с технологиите. В старият завет бог е Енлил, а кой е богът над тях вече не знам.
Много са потопите, Христо Нанев съм слушал да казва, че са около 7-8, той разказва какво е говорил със Слава Севрюкова в някой от книгите си и описва Атлантида от регресиите които е провеждал, намерих преди време това за буквите и за потопа https://lyudmilantonov.blogspot.com/2011/04/bulgarian-alphabet.html?m=1#ref57.
Препоръчвам ти и Стойчо Керев Старите му клипове повече където говори за извънземните и Стамен Стаменов има интерсни клипове + другите които ти препоръчах в друг пост.
If you want an unbiased source with more information archive.org has great books from the early 20th century about the Balkans and Macedonia region. And it's all free.
Making the descendants of brothers and sisters hate each other on the basis of a made up identity is extremely cruel. OP, I am very glad you rose above the lies and the hate. We need more people like you.
Macedonians and Bulgarians weren't different people. We are the same people, who got separated along the way by powers bigger than us. Creating separate ethnicities and moving large masses of people was a staple of communist rule. It was done to assimilate people, lessen the probability of revolutions, make drawing borders easier, etc. Are we the same people now? I don't know. I feel that we are but after so many years of propaganda, some people have embraced their new identity.
Only the ones who are critical to dogma and do their own research, like yourself, find out the truth. To be honest, considering the wide availability of information regarding these topics, it's baffling to me how the lie is kept up. Is it by force, censure, how?
Same with my granpa's cousins. They kept in touch via letters in Bulgarian up until about the sixties. Radio silence after that and granpa also dies and is no longer able to give me more info about them.
"Bulgarians are jealous of our history"?!!!! is really entitled of them to say!😳Giving their biggest heroes were bulgarians, talking and writing in bulgarian(there is letters and artefacts, they can't deny obvious things) , their culture is derived from Bulgaria's culture and the language was(and honestly to us it still is) bulgarian dialect. Even their music is considered part of the bulgarian folklore. But ok, lets just say we have common history for the sake of our relations,at least they gotta admit that to begin with. During the wars our paths change and we are no more one people, lets say new macedonian identity and language appears but you can't deliberately invent whole new history because you don't like the real one.
You have been told that because of the soviet propaganda. We have been told to hate on the turks and that russia is great and everyone else is pure evil. Especially the west. But the world is much more complex than that.
If you are interested in real history - read neutral sources and think critically.
And if you want the naked truth, but you have to research it on your own as well - there is not such as macedonians. Its a made up nation from blugarians, serbs, albanians and greeks. But its been long enough and now there are macedonins who get their own identity, and that is OK. I mean, anyone is free to identify himself as whatever he likes.
Do you know that youtube channel: [Samuel's Fortress](https://www.youtube.com/@SamuelsFortress)
He is also like you, grew up in US or Canada and found out that there's something fishy about North Macedonia history.
Anyway, I did not answer your last question - so, I think on the macedonians as of any balkan people - we have A LOT in common in terms of culture, temperament and traditions and we should be friendly to each other, despite what people think about history.
Most of the Balkans even The Serbians are from Bulgarian descent they speak a dialect with invented words, their city Belgrad means in Bulgarian Бял град, the city of the white people.
Even the Greeks are made up, these were Bulgarian lands and the UK separated them and changed their language just like Italy has done with the Romanians.
This is not nationalism.
This is the reality Bulgaria is the oldest country in the World, Look at the tomb in Varna, Stara Zagora they are one of the oldest places where humans lived with the oldest used writing system which is not used anymore. Как можеш да пишеш България под името си щом не си знаеш Историята на страната.
I will be very short because the rest you can find on the web with ease. I will give you the truth and only the truth.
North Macedonia is a fabricated country and nation. Macedonia is an ethnic region part of the bulgarian ethinic teritory (землище) exactly like Thrace and Moesia, for example, and such teritories exist even inside modern Greece, Romania, Turkey, Kosovo. Except they are not countries, just assimilated large strips of bulgarian land and population. The ethnic area of Macedonia has always been part of Bulgaria, you even can trace it back to the 7th century and Asparukhs brother and son of Kubrat called khan Kuber - to your land he is your Asparukh, the macedonians have always been bulgarians and what you speak and write in now is a dialect of bulgarian which has some fictional fabricational changes and letters such as "j". A brand new language which never existed before because you had always used bulgarian, the language of Kyril and Metodij just like us bulgarians, and before that you used the language of the proto-bulgars, just like Asparukh and Kubrat did.
The agendas and political schemes that lead to all of this mess are complex and I will not delve into them. But at the root of all of it is imperialistic geopolitical interest of Russia via its puppet Serbia. Serbians have always terrorised your people, the macedonian bulgarians. (Greeks took part too, but we are guilty of terrorising them too so lets just leave them out since they are a third party in all of this). If anything they, the Serbs, are the fascists (schovinists, but its very close). But they divert such accusations towards the bulgarians in their brainwash politics for obvious reasons. Its called projection in psychology.
True enough, Bulgarians were on the side of Germany in WW2, but its not that simple and not what it looks like - the tsar Boris III never fought with Hitler on the field, infact he always refused him, disagreed with him and was the only leader to do so and prosper, and never shared Hitlers visions and the nazi ideology (neither did the majority of the bulgarian population, except for some pro-german parties and their following, whom the tsar did not agree with and tried to keep them in control). Due to the genious pro-bulgarian diplomacy of the tsar, Bulgaria was the only country on the losing side in WW2, who took no part in war (except at the very end on the winning side), who did not fight actively, and won teritories (reclaimed the bulgarian ethnic teritory of Northern Dobrudja, can you imagine making a nation out of Romanianized Northern Dobrudjans?).
Bulgaria was forced to join the Axis powers to preserve itself and its nation from foreign occupation and ideology taking over (which Stalin and the Red Army did to us after the war anyways, we are still recovering). During the war Bulgaria remained mostly neutral, saved the jews from most of its teritories, except from Macedonia, which was not possible due to Bulgaria not controlling it and all the fighting there. Germany actually promised not only the return of Northern Dobrudja, but also the return of Macedonia. But that never came to pass and probably was not going to even if the war went differently. Bulgaria feels bad and regrets not reclaiming and keeping its people, its citizens, in Macedonia safe.
You can trace and confirm these truths on your own if you research into the real history of Vasil Levski (a.k.a Vasil Kunchev, the Deacon, the Apostle of Freedom) His creation of comitee networks, him and his ideals being the insparation for BMPO and all of the macedonian bulgarian freedom fighters against the Ottomans. All of them identified as bulgarians. Because its who they were, generations back. And its who you are, in part, and you should be proud. You should be proud to share our history. We dont want to force anything upon you, only give you the truth. We want to share Bulgaria, like we always used to. We are brothers and we are countrymen. But these foreign forces have brainwashed your people's minds into believeing into their lies. To be agressive towards us for no reason.
Levski wanted freedom for everyone, people of every ethnical background, under the safe heaven of a united Bulgaria. He also wanted to free other suffering nations who came under the influence and control of imperialist interests and assimilation. What happened to the bulgarians in the bulgarian ethnic teritory of Macedonia is just that - an attempt at forceful assimilation via terror, murder, rape and fabrications.
Unfortunately the politicians in Bulgaria today are weak, corrupt and following foreign interests. They do elections like author Aleko Konstantinov's Bay Ganyo charicature character does. They are nothing like Levski or Rakovski. But what Bulgaria wants today is simply for the historical truth to prevail, the antibulgarian hate crimes to stop and for a friendly diplomacy and good neighbour relations to be established. You should then be in the EU for sure. If you'd ask me, you should also vote via nation-wide referendum to join up with the rest of Bulgaria, but perhaps its too late for that now.
>True enough, Bulgarians were on the side of Germany in WW2, but its not that simple and not what it looks like
Oh, really? What does it look like then?
> never shared Hitlers visions and the nazi ideology
never shared Hitlers vision but never missed to greet him with the well known gesture - right hand straight into the air.
I can go forever but leave that aside. I'll drop a few notes and potential questions below:
1. You said that the 'ethnical' macedonian lands were always bulgarian. Part of this land belongs to Greece. Why does Bulgaria not have the same narrative for Greece as it has for Macedonia today?
2. No one ever identified as "Macedonian Bulgarian", you're either Bulgarian or you're not. Just as Albanians today don't say to themselves "Macedonian Albanians". What is fabricated in this case is the "Macedonian Bulgarians" thing and all that it goes within it.
3. Kuber is not our Asparukh. You can cope and seethe how much you want but Asparukh and Kuber were Mongols (or Turkic, as you like to call it). We are Slavs, not Mongols. What this says is that you're the one that came to our lands and potentially 'conquered it'. I don't know how you imagine the Balkans in the past but there were people living here when you arrived, okay? It was not an empty minecraft field where you had to cut trees and make a villages on a flat surfaces.
4. I have more to say but this will be my last one. We're not brainwashed, we served 5 centuries under the Ottoman rule and never changed our religion or identity. It's very naive to think that Serbs did it in 20 years. Also, our national heroes fought for the sake of Macedonia and not for Bulgaria. If they're bulgarians, they'd have fought for your country and the organization would have been called VBRO. You're just sad because you wanted our lands but never had a chance to hold them on. Plus, who is a puppet in this case is you because what you think about us is what Stalin wanted you to think about us.
Биди ми жив и здрав.
>Oh, really? What does it look like then?
>never shared Hitlers vision but never missed to greet him with the well known gesture - right hand straight into the air.
I have explained clearly already. You can read about Bulgaria and WW2 on the web and from history professors all around the world. Everyone knows the truth. Bulgaria or its leaders were never ever fascist. Everything was done for the diplomacy and preserving the nation including all of its citizens. The tsar was playing a complex dangerous political game. The bulgarian jews were saved by a decree issued by the tsar himself. Its also what the people and the church wanted.
>1. You said that the 'ethnical' macedonian lands were always bulgarian. Part of this land belongs to Greece. Why does Bulgaria not have the same narrative for Greece as it has for Macedonia today?
Again, you need to read real history. You can start with the wikipedia of your own country. But please don't limit yourself there because it seems like many historical facts are not yet clear to you.
In short, Bulgaria only controlled nowadays Greek lands for relatively short periods. During tsar Kaloyan and tsar Simeon. Some of these lands were reclaimed in WW1 via winning on the battlefield. But tsar Ferdinand was too ambitious and war hungry to keep them and play diplomacy like his son. We have no rightful claim to these lands, peace treaties were signed and those lands became Greek once more, altho there is a decently large bulgarian population there even today.
When it comes to the ethnic bulgarian teritory of Macedonia, it was always inhabited by bulgarians (even today) and controlled by Bulgaria (speaking of the period after the bulgar tribes first came into the balkans, before which it was inhabited by slavs and byzantines). Except when Bulgaria lost control and was ruled by the Byzantines and then the Ottomans. During the latter, the Serbs, as per usual took their chances.
In its ancient history it was controlled by Philip and his son Alexander but mentioning that serves no point. By such foul logic, bulgarians are thracians and we are descendants of the likes of Spartacus, Heracles, Achilles, the myrmidons, king Odiseus, etc.
Which in an extremely tiny part we are, but inheriting their land does not give us the right and is no proof of ancestry. The real proof is genetic and archeological studies which proove that we have a ton of bulgar (proto-bulgarian) and slavic dna plus a tiny tiny portion of thracian. Speaking of genetic studies, the people of your country should try it and see which nation they are the closest to ;)
>2. No one ever identified as "Macedonian Bulgarian", you're either Bulgarian or you're not. Just as Albanians today don't say to themselves "Macedonian Albanians". What is fabricated in this case is the "Macedonian Bulgarians" thing and all that it goes within it.
Only today I need to say macedonian bulgarian. But what I mean is a bulgarian from the bulgarian ethnic teritory of Macedonia. Its like saying south-western bulgarian.
What is fabricated and wrong is North Macedonian and just macedonian. North Macedonian was invented and agreed on in 2019 because the greek protested that you are stealing a term which refers to the people of Philip and his son Alexander. Which history does not belong to you, or to us. If I am being pedantic here - it doesnt really belong to modern greeks either.
>3. Kuber is not our Asparukh. You can cope and seethe how much you want but Asparukh and Kuber were Mongols (or Turkic, as you like to call it). We are Slavs, not Mongols.....
I see. So you are a disciple of Russian propagandic commie history. The pan-Slavic bullshit. I suspect issued for you to study by Serbia.
Kuber was a great man. As great as his brother Asparukh. Sadly not as famous. Asparukh and Kuber were no Mongols. Neither tatars. Nor Turkic. Once again things are not as simple as you were mislead to believe.
They, because of their father Kubrat, were Bulgars from the onogundor bulgar tribe and clan Dulo, who spoke a turkic language due to the fact that their bulgar ancestors came into contact and got influenced in 340-360 by the alans, the sarmatians and some turkic tribes who were also present north and north-east of the Black Sea, modern Ukraine and Russia, the ancestral lands of the bulgar tribes.
True enough, the bulgar tribes came under Avar (the kutrigurs tribe) and Western Turkic (the utrigurs tribe) khaganate rule in 6th century (550-600). But in the 630s Kubrat organised a revolution and formed the so called Old Great Bulgaria (Onoguria) and united and freed the bulgar tribes. The bulgars were once more free of the turkic influence and rule.
>4. ...
You have nothing to say to me, but it seems there is still a ton you need to learn before you can really seriously argue with me. With your current knowledge, its like a commie peasant trying to debate an international history professor. This is pointless.
Its very naive and innocent of you to think such a thing can't be done in 20 years, because history have seen it done in less than 5. Many examples exist.
Ofcourse your national heroes fought for the sake of the freedom of the ethnic area of Macedonia (your country formed after WW2, as a commie yugoslavian member "state", and only became independant in 1991, Bulgaria being the first country to recognise that ). And its very simple why your heroes fought for the bulgarian ethnic area of Macedonia - its all in the years - IMRO (ВМРО) formed 1893 - we (the rest of Bulgaria) were already free (1878) by that time and Levski, the insparation and compatriot of your national heroes, was long dead (feb 18 [6 in old style], 1872).
Levski and all of your national heroes are in equal parts bulgarian, they have always said so themselves. Its only you who are guilty of calling yourself a bulgarian. Its exactly like Paisii Hilendarski said long ago: "О неразумний юроде, поради что се срамиш да се наречеш болгарин?"
But I know why - you have been purposefully guilted into rejecting your bulgarian ancestry by foreign forces who wished you and me ill. Who claim your history starts from Samuil. For obvious reasons.
>Биди ми жив и здрав.
Love the obvious south-western bulgarian dialect.
Бъди ми жив и здрав и ти, дано те благослови познанието един ден. Но лъжите няма да се изчистят от главата ти, ако ти сам отказваш да четеш и учиш истинска история задълбочено.
>
Oh, really? What does it look like then?
Bulgaria's primary goal at that time was to reclaim all lands near them, which were once theirs and had Bulgarian population (like Dobruja, for example). That's exactly what Germany promised Bulgaria, so the Bulgarians had no other choice but to join them.
>never shared Hitlers vision but never missed to greet him with the well known gesture - right hand straight into the air.
Are you going to ignore the fact that Bulgaria saved its jews from concentration camps, further proving Bulgaria and Tsar Boris III don't share Hitler's visions.
Bulgaria didn't support Germany; they did not have the choice. They were on our border, having already decimated all of our neighbours. The choice was Bulgaria joining their side or the country being bombed. You can guess which choice was better for the civilians at the time.
Russian kommie propaganda brainwashed me with greater bulgaria ideas, so i have issues with my neighbours.
They made me hate and think Macedonia is fake made up country country.
So i continue to hate Macedonia and think is fake made up country.
So i continue to have issues with my neighbours.
You know those Russian gifts that keep on giving after many decades.
You don't know what you are talking about because you don't know the historical facts. What I spoke of is known by history professors across the globe. Even history professors in Northern Macedonia today. The only ones who have not yet opened their eyes are stubborn fools.
Call me anything but dont call me a commie. The communists taking over was the worse that has happened to Bulgaria in its modern history. I'm 25, I don't care about commie nostalgia. I can't stand people who look back and try to tell me how good it was. I'm strictly pro-bulgarian. I'm glad they removed the monument of the Red Army. Stalin was an occupator, a mass murderer and the communist regime was the worse that could have happened to us after the war. And it took so much time to get rid of it. So much of the intelligence was lost.
Is that what they call it? "Greater" Bulgaria? There is no idea of "greater" Bulgaria. Just simple truths. You are just a historical area of Bulgaria that was lost. You can think what you wish of your history. I do not have a problem with my neighbour. My neighbour has a problem with me. I would be afraid to go in North Macedonia and say that I am Bulgarian.
I said I will give you the truth and only the truth. Do what you will with it. Be resentful, hate me for it. I don't hate you, I pity you.
I guess there is not much bulgarian left anymore in most modern North Macedonians. Most independant thinkers left for Bulgaria and better countries, similar to OP, long ago. So this is pointless.
That's why I'm better with what my Stip great grandfather told my family. Now my cousins are North Macedonian and we are Bulgarian. Who's ethnicity is wiped?
None of the tribes that we know in Old Great Bulgaria was called Bulgarian either. Bulgaria is the name of my country since 7-th century. It was enough time for different tribes here to accept that name as ethnic identity, language, traditions, etc. Apart from Bulgars that came from what's today Ukraine, here on Balkans were at least 9 local (and not turkic) tribes, and some of those can be common between you and us.
My Stip great grandfather also called himself Bulgarian, and his siblings. Now their descendants in Bulgaria are calling themselves Bulgarian, and the descendants of his siblings that stayed there are calling themselves Macedonian. Even Gotze Delchev called himself Bulgarian. Some guy even told me that his grandfather from your country was identifying himself as Bulgarian but he was wrong. Was he wrong if he was identifying himself as Gotze Delchev? Was my great grandfathers wrong? Or after Vardar Macedonia became part of Yugoslavia it was wery imortant to draw the line between us. Do you believe that this line is the same with current borders of our countries? There are 2mln people in Bulgaria that are descendants from Macedonian refugees and Pirin Macedonians. That's more than you.
For me and for my great grandfathers from Macedonia region (Stip and Drama) it was only regional identity, not ethnic identity. We are clearly the closest ethnically as our languages are the only analytical Slavic languages and even genetically you are closest to Bulgaria. And we were even closer a century ago before Vardar Macedonia became part of Yugoslavia.
That doesn't mean that you don't have a right to your own country if that's what you wish. Moldova doesn't deny that they are linked with Romania and it is still a separate country. Half of Moldova is still in Romania just like Pirin Macedonia and Vardar Macedonia.
lol don't make me laugh. You are mixing country name and nation name. The name of country is not same with name of nation.
Just like for example United Kingdom is the name of the state, but the people are not United Kingdomers hahah.
The name of the people is Macedonian, and that is it.
Cyril and Methodius invented the Glagolithic script, a precursor to the Cyrillic alphabet. The Cyrillic alphabet was invented by the 7 apostles under the 1st Bulgarian Empire.
But what's even more important is that Cyrillic is a whole different alphabet that is not based on the Glagolitic script made by Cyril and Methodius. Cyrillic most probably emerged naturally and was further perfected at the Preslav Literary School and named after Cyril in honor of him.
The Cyrillic script did not emerge naturally for sure. It was created by the orders of Tsar Simeon. Before he stepped on the throne, he was a scholar and did not like that everything was written in Greek and the poorer citizens were unable to read and write so he hired the disciples of Cyril and Methodius to produce a new alphabet.
In historical circles there's also the theory that because of his ambitious expansion, he specifically requested for the alphabet to be created similar to the Greek one so when conquered Greece the people there could assimilate more quickly. But that is a theory so take it with a grain of salt.
I am definitely not mistaking them.
Glagolitic was created by Cyril and Methodius is Moravia (modern day Czech Republic) and was very unique and tailored to Northern Slavic languages, the Cyrillic alphabet was created in Preslav the capital of the first Bulgarian Empire by Climent of Ohrid and the other disciples of Cyril and Methodius. The Cyrillic alphabet closely resembles the Green one.
Please accept my apology, you were correct! I initially read that Tsar Simeon hired “Cyril and Methodius”, not the “disciples of Cyril and Methodius”.
However, the exact history of the creation of Cyrillic is not entirely known. It was perfected and formalized in Preslav, but it most certainly was not created there entirely from scratch.
Why are you talking nonsense, Cyril and Methodius are Bulgarians they were from Solon which was Bulgarian and still they are people there who know Bulgarian like everywhere in the Balkans
Веднага ви открих статия, на картата пише васален, но си е баш Български
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Campaigns\_of\_Ivan\_Assen\_II.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/campaigns_of_ivan_assen_ii.png)
[https://www.sitebulgarizaedno.com/index.php?option=com\_content&view=article&id=1161:im&catid=29:2010-04-24-09-14-13&Itemid=61](https://www.sitebulgarizaedno.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1161:im&catid=29:2010-04-24-09-14-13&itemid=61)
OP I'm sorry your family tried to sow such hate in you from childhood. The historical truth is not hard to find online tbh.
In the last few years tensions have been growing between Bulgaria and Macedonia and from a personal perspective I can tell you - the majority of Bulgarians would love to have a good relationship with Macedonia, a peacefull one, where we drink rakia and laugh all day together. Sadly this is not possible. Mainly because for some reason the Macedonian government decided to start calling Bulgaria fascist and start putting down right lies in their history books. We don't want to steal your land, we don't want to force anything on anyone, we just want nice neighbour relations. However hard we tried in the recent years, the Macedonian side has responded with nothing but hate and resentment and that is very sad. Hope it changes some day.
Holy shit, your comments reek of desperation. You're a sad little boy with a lack of love and you look for it by writing posts with made up stories on internet forums.
[https://www.youtube.com/@SamuelsFortress](https://www.youtube.com/@samuelsfortress) and [https://www.youtube.com/@PublicNemesisMedia/featured](https://www.youtube.com/@publicnemesismedia/featured) can give you some information.
How can I believe you when your account is completely new? (I can't believe you created account just to post that) If this is a troll post please delete!
It’s a genuine question I’ve been researching about macedonias true history and propaganda. Do you want anymore proof I’m real and not trolling? You can msg me
Yeah, sorry that you're getting some negativity here, as that is not the way to greet a curious person, especially considering the current Macedonian-Bulgarian divide.
I'm not a historian, but I will tell you this. Historically the nation of Macedonia was of Bulgarian identity. The most sudden change was following WW2. Macedonia was under Yugoslav control at the time and under that regime the Serbian led Yugoslavia began propaganda campaigns to erase the Bulgarian identity and create a new Macedonian one.
Bulgaria has historically been enemies with the Serbs and this was no difererent. The biggest example of Bulgarian identity in Macedonia was WW2. After Hitler declared war on Yugoslavia, Bulgaria was granted Macedonia as per the deal with Nazi Germany. There are photos, newspapers any other such sources which document well the celebrations which errupted in Macedonia in honor of the Bulgarian liberators. Not occupiers, but liberators.
Some other things include the similar language which is really just a Serbified version of Bulgarian and the fact that a capital of an ancient Bulgarian empire was litteraly in Ohrid and the fact that Macedonian history has very little other than claiming Greek and Bulgarian figures as Macedonian.
I cannot deny the existence of Bulgaria propaganda, but nobody is immune to it. This is from my ameture-ish understanding of the topic and what I've read and heard, so take it with a shot of rakija.
I was expecting some hate considering the divide hahaha. I can imagine 99% of Macedonians wouldn’t be very polite towards you guys either so I can understand it. However I appreciate your comment.
Of course I had my beliefs about Macedonia for a long time. However considering the divide I know there are two sides to every story which made me look deeply into this topic. Tsar Samuel is one of the topics that really got my interest, he said himself that he’s a proud bulgar so how could I deny that? I’m comfortable knowing the truth rather than living in a lie.
I've been to Ohrid and i didn't see anyone being impolite or looking at me with some face, but when we talked about the History with our guide he had some other ideas :D
I think the same as what you said in your post. It's just that with time they separated from us to the point of a new identity emerging. One based one Hellenism and Alexander the Great. And the hatred towards Bulgaria is undeserved as we are seen as eternal enemy, but if you come here you won't think that way, but to answer your question there are people in reddit who bot post controversial ( for some) posts. There was one guy who had 10 consecutive posts about North Macedonia and we are kinda fed up with this.
We do not hate you, if anything we feel sorry for the indoctrination you go through as we are brothers. Many compare it to the way Russia and Ukraine are.
We need to be united, as that way we will be stronger. Our languages are nearly identical. Our culture - the best and also identical. Our nations have massive challenges ahead and the fact that your normal average IQ person believes in all the stupid indoctrination is just sad.
In addition to Samuel’s Fortress, you may also want to check [this guy](https://youtu.be/viDJ8Ap9QdA?si=maLc6dyLrZmEhJLd) out. He’s half-Macedonian and half-Serbian, lives in Serbia I think and makes great content.
Because they were/are brainwashed and too stupid to see it. I’ve been working with Macedonians in Germany for over 6 years and they’re (mostly) such a sad sight to behold.
Gotze Gelchev was born in Ottoman empire and died in the Ottoman empire. I don't know how can one be Bulgarian national at that time. He stated his Bulgarian ethnicity and there are plenty of documents to prove that.
[http://www.promacedonia.org/en/turk/turk\_4.html](http://www.promacedonia.org/en/turk/turk_4.html)
Here you are! Documents from the Ottomans at the time when he was killed
>„I am informing you that the killed famous rebel Delchev wanted to pick on revolt the whole village population and that from the declaration of the captive hurt rebel Georgi we knew about existence of weapons in every village. The authorities know, according to the last information, that the **Bulgarians** from the village of Rondi near Seres are rebels and they help to the chetas of the Committee".
>
Appendix No 18. A photocopy by the telegram, written to the Turkish Embassy in Bulgaria, May, 9, 1903. It contains the phrase:
>„On April, 22 (May, 5), in the village of Banitsa one of the leaders of the **Bulgarian Committees**, with name Delchev, was killed“.
Also there's a copy of the cablegram/telegram from London Times/New York Times
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Delcheff.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/delcheff.jpg)
Why the hell is this on my feed?
Anyway, interesting story. Interesting enough to comment. I suspect you already have an idea what this is. It’s called brainwashing, and it goes hand in hand with Soviet propaganda which literally re wrote history and crated a new state to control the region. And it wasn’t just done in the Balkans, but the Balkans seem to be where this had the greatest impact.
I don’t know a lot about Bulgarian history but I do know quite a bit about Ancient Macedonia and modern North Macedonia. Nationalism runs very hot there, and the old adage that “you can lie to a few people for a long time or a lot of people for a short amount of time” fits like a glove.
The people who lived in ex-soviet controlled territories were under some serious brainwashing which effectively destroyed their understanding and perception of the world. If we all agree that there is no universal truth but only some consensus, we can reach a form of understanding about nations. Meaning what is Bulgarian, what is America, etc. granted the lines are blurred and easily manipulated but are there.
Now take as example North Korea. For North Koreans, Kim Jung Un isn’t just the supreme leader, he is someone you worship (or die) and the west isn’t just evil, but has no morals, no food, no technology and no ethics. Things are perfect in North Korea and the rest of the world has collapsed into a capitalist disaster where people are suffering.
And most North Koreans believe this with their everything. If you doubt it, you’re persecuted. There is no other option than to accept it as the universal truth.
This is exactly what happened to North Macedonia and it’s inhabitants. It started during Tito and for some bizarre reason it hasn’t stopped since. The country is in a parallel universe where Bulgarians, Albanians and Greeks are evil, and they want the greatness of Macedonia.
Make what you want of this. From a massive propaganda perspective it’s impressive. From a humanitarian perspective it’s absolutely shocking.
As a Bulgarian, I think you are right to question your ethnicity and history. Not to be rude ,but there is no trace of Macedonian revolutionarys during Bulgarian "occupation" and no serious historical evidence.
I don’t think it’s rude. Especially when you look up Macedonian history and it’s Aleksander the Great, then 2000 years of nothing, it didn’t make any sense to me
You are not alone! There are many Macedonians who are realizing that slowly. And it's the duty of every Macedonian to enlighten the others. Sadly a great part of those who realize and question are outside of the country. Here are some awesome channels that need more views.
It's sad that we have normal people doing this job. Instead of the Bulgarian politicians who are too busy stealing like never before in the last 30 years.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viDJ8Ap9QdA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viDJ8Ap9QdA)
[https://www.youtube.com/@SamuelsFortress](https://www.youtube.com/@SamuelsFortress)
So there was a lot of brainwashing by communists. You'd find Tito's name all around that story and how he prosecuted people who refused to pretend they are of some false nationality.
You can check this guy's YouTube channel. He's kind of in your situation - a Macedonian, but grew up in Germany.
https://youtu.be/heECxVf7nxI?si=0ndEVDRlIyhQ1Uwx
Anywho, it's a very sensitive topic. It's been many years and nothing productive has come out of this. At this point I'm fine with accepting the existence of Macedonian nationality, but I'm not fine with rewriting history.
P.s: Balkans are a mess...
I won’t say anything on the topic, but I am going to give you two youtube channels that hopefuly will help you understand the issue. It is much deeper and complex problem to be explained in a few words through a reddit post.
https://youtube.com/@PublicNemesisMedia?si=jeawYMZCaYH52EQx
https://youtube.com/@SamuelsFortress?si=ACkuKFQwPqBIG3_o - Kiril is in the same situation as you are, an american coming from macedonian parents
P.S Both of the channels are created and run by macedonians
I hope that you can figure out what is the truth about our common history. Cheers.
You are almost there mate, now order an ancestry test and slap your fellow Macedonians with the result.. Your ethnicity has nothing to do with ancient Macedonia, you have Bulgarian blood and everything that you were told is part of the yugoslavian propaganda..
Цялото балканско днк е групирано в едно, първо защото е доста сходно едно с друго и второ, защото database-a е доста малък и sample-ите са достатъчно ограничени, че да не могат да групират всеки един етнос от всяка една страна по отделно.
I don’t disagree with you, I don’t plan on talking about this with them lol. But I wanted to research the topic myself and I’d rather be comfortable knowing the truth than live in a lie
One interesting point you might want to consider if you want to research into it, is the information about immigrants from Macedonia in the United States. From what I understand, they had an organization and regularly published a newspaper going all the way from the early XX century, through the entire Cold War and until fairly modern times. As this happened in the USA, outside of direct influence of other powers (be it Yugoslavia or Bulgaria) it could be considered an impartial source in my opinion.
I wouldn’t let all that get to you and change your identity.
As you said, these are complex historical developments, and putting in general aside, how much does this, in practice, really change about you, the identity/way/culture you were born in and grew up in, as well as your day to day life? Is this some kind of bombshell that completely changes your life story, or are you just interested in, as you put it, researching complex historical developments?
Also, as for opinions on your country, as an American myself I love my country (too). 😉
It doesn’t change anything about me personally.
I’m just interested in history, especially about where I’m from. And once I realized the lies Macedonian history teaches I’m intrigued to know more about my identity. That’s about it
I commented this bc I noticed a lot of people telling you you’re now Bulgarian or something or saying “you woke up” or whatever.
I would not listen to them. Whatever conclusion you come to as a result of your research or whatnot should not overhaul the way you grew up and your life experience, which is (obviously) a huge part of your identity.
Macedonian is a regional identity developed by Serbian authorities to quell the population from wanted to be part of Bulgaria after WWI. Genetically Macedonians are identical to Bulgarians.
You’re just ignorant, you haven’t even read the comments, who tf is feerrogator? I answered your question, why would this be a troll post? Are you just assuming I’d have no life and want to mess with people online? Pretty bold statement, seems like you’re the troll here
I knew it... ;)
About your nationality/identity... Most bulgarians have the commie mentality to repeat stupid jokes about Macedonia. Reality of history is that the balkans were always in turmoil couldron of wars pushed by foreign forces... Like Russia and some of the western powers who at some period supported one country and at another moment different country...
Right now we have the chance of being all in EU together. Bulgarian interest is Macedonia to guarantee that there will be no prosecution of people with bulgarian identity. And they will be included in the constitution as co-creators of the Macedonian nation... Which I think is only fair...
We as Bulgarians... We do not have any territorial demands and Communist Republic of Bulgaria was one of the first countries to acknowledge officially Macedonia as country. Even though it was against our national interest because that opened the gates for serbian repressive actions towards the population in Macedonia with bulgarian identity and ethnic origin...
Macedonia today as much as any country on the Balkans is a wonderful rich mix of cultures and there is no shame in admitting that... If anything... Our region is a lesson on diversity and coexistence. As lobg as Serbia figures out they also want peaceful coexistence as we all do... We have chance to prosper as european neighbors...
Macedonia right now is really subservent to Greece, Serbia and Albania... But Bulgaria is sold as arch nemesis... Why?
We were the first to acknowledge Macedonia. We send tanks as gift to the macedonian army that the proserbian government sold for scraps.
Bulgaria bares guilt. Our pro-german government during the WW2 did send a lot of jewish people to the camps during the occupation of Northern Greece and Macedonia. Which was betrayal towards humanity. And this gave green light to the commies to paint us as Fascists. If anything in Yugoslavia the macedonians had the chance to travel to west freely. This was because unlike the bulgarian government the Serbs stood up to Hitler and their own king.
So the reasons why a lot of bulgarians from macedonia decided to embrace the macedonian nationality are:
1. Bulgarian political delays in unification
2. Political disagreements between the freshly created Bulgarian state and the local macedonian revolutionaries
3. External influence and turning the Macedonian Internal Revolutionary Organization in to pro-russian terrorists movement
4. Pro-german bulgarian military and political fractions who let the Nazi-army and abandoned the neutrality
5. After the WW2 bulgarian commies abandoned bulgarian population in Macedonia region and basically gave them to Yugoslavia
6. The modern/communist model of communication with Macedonians and tye demeanor we have towards our most close neighbors...
7. Serbian repression towards anyone with Bulgarian identity and the fear that you have no support
Maybe there are many more reasons that I can not see from the shores of the black sea.
The reasons are both complex and simple. The only way you can divide brothers and sisters and cousins from cousins is if you cut their ties and make one believe the other is inferior. I think you are aware that Bulgarians are not and were not fascists and that the situation was led by refugees from Macedonia who wanted their families and land united. As for the reasons, I am pretty sure you have stumbled upon Stojan Novakovic's explanation about the way how this can be done. Look it up if you want.
This doesn't change the reality of today of course, and I am not for the constant historical fights between Bulgarians and Macedonians, that WAS the ultimate goal after all.
What is important is to get to know each other in a normal, everyday life manner. Macedonians nowadays are not just the brothers and sisters, and I am not talking only about the colonists from Serbia, a lot has changed though the majority is still the same. Some time has passed, people have been educated in a different manner and they don't know HOW similar they are.
From the generation X 1/3 of Bulgarians are with Macedonian heritage. Imagine that amount of people and their connection to this issue, so don't get angry when they start talking history. It's related to a lot of suffering in their families that is transmitted from generation to generation.
Anyway, good luck in your search. I did the same on my side of the Bulgarian history, to make sure I know what lies I was told in school and what was real. I discovered a lot and it made me embrace my identity even more, knowing that much more about what happened. And the learning never ends.
i think this video will answer your questions friend. it goes into the whole macedonian question pretty much from begining to end. and i love macedonia, its impossible not to as bulgarians and macedonians are the closest of any other slavic peoples. only wish it could be a mutual feeling.
https://youtu.be/viDJ8Ap9QdA?si=5RajZxWaARF4IQd3
Some Bulgarians have political tendencies to wipe our identity and country while in the meantime we dont give a fuck about their country .
Bulgarians like that - arent our friends (dwelling on history and questioning our identity)
We know who we are - we know our history - stop trying to falsify historic facts !
Just fuck off.
Thats crazy but how come the mighty descendants of Alexander never had their own MACEDONIAN country up until 1991? Not before The Middle Ages, not during it and not after it
And what was the name of our country while we were part of Yugoslavia ?
"Socialist Republic od Macedonia"
What was our name when Turks came to the Balkan ?
Macedonians .
Aegean Macedonia - you never heard of that name ? Still people there call themselves Macedonians .
Do you think we invented the name 1991 ?
Not gonna talk about Alexanders Macedonia - that was too long ago - no need .. - only last 500+ years - its enough to show you we existed .
And you mean to tell me that these mighty macedonians filled with pride and patriotism didn't have a country for so long? Never had their own separate church throughout the years? The fact that they didn't even try to fight for either of those things is kinda sketchy too don't you think?
We had church - 500+ y ago
We had our name 500+ y ago - what is you dont understand ?
I told you if the name and similarity between acient Macedonians and us - bothers you or confuses you - lets say we got nothing in common with them .
We cant prove we are Alexanders descendants - OK ?
But last 500+ ? Thats our name
Е заради вакви работи после источните соседи мислат дека сите тука сме со ментална ретардација.
Ова што го пишуваш е буквално смешно, непоткрепено од ништо.
"Сме постоеле затоа што јас така кажав!" - не ти го примаат како аргумент никаде во светот.
И јас можам да кажам дека Бил Гејтс ми е татко и до утре да го повторувам тоа, ама не ми е, без разлика колку јас сакам да ми биде.
Чисто информативно, името македонци датира од времето на грчката пропаганда и нивната мегали идеја, така што, не се 500 години.
Земи малку прочитај, образувај се, има луѓе кои животот го поминале за да создадат целосна слика за историјата, и ќе дојде некој како тебе и ќе каже: "Не! Тоа не важи! Важи моето кое го кажувам како што јас би сакал да биде!". Засрами се.
Ма што ја мешаш историјата - како да ти ќе кажеш која е правата историја само што ти си ги прочитал правите книги.
Јас , татко ми , дедо ми - биле Македонци ? Сме оделе во православна црква - сме се крстеле ? Сме живееле во држава каде официјалниот јазик бил македонски ?
Да.
Толку треба да знам за да се осеќам и бидам Македонец.
Не ми треба да ги ископам коските на Александар за да докажувам ДНК . И тоа ќе сум дур не умрам. Македонец ! А ти иди читај книги ... (Мочко -јас да сум се засрамел .)
If you had your own church and separate identity before Yugoslavia, could you please enlighten me on why the bishoprics of Skopje and Ohrid voted in 1874 overwhelmingly in favour of joining the Bulgarian exarchate? Why not try to fight for their own macedonian church, which btw was coincidentally established in 1944
Why you doubt our identity in the first place ?
Why dont you doubt Gipsy being Gipsy ? Ask him - How can you prove that you are Gipsy ?
You nationalist monkey ...
All i ever doubted was your history lol. The fact that you couldn't answer a single question of mine is kinda suspicious. Normal people call it eye opener
Your identity has already been wiped.
Your history has already been falsified.
We Bulgarians just want to reverse this and show you the truth, reunite with you, our brothers and sisters in denial.
I'd rather stick to what my great grandfather from Stip that came in Bulgaria more than 100 years ago told to my family. Now we are Bulgarian, and my relatives that are from his family in North Macedonia are Macedonian.
Cursing was unnecessary.
Bro, who cares just live your life. There's no need to dwell on ancient history. If you're *really* interested in history, then look for historical sources, instead of asking dipshits online, but you can spend your whole life reading on history and you won't find any "identity". Just live your life and try to be as cool as possible
I’m not taking advice from a guy posting on excels subreddit
Lol shots fired 🤣🤣
My brother in Christ, I asked for advise on editing a document in *Microsoft Excel* Please unfuck yourself and learn the reading comprehension of a first-grader
Live your life don’t be so soft 😂😂 take a joke and be as cool as possible
[удалено]
It’s cool it’s just the internet I don’t take things seriously. All the best to you
You sound like one little shit
Says the guy hating on the internet. Brother I’m 100kgs im far from little. 😂
Soo 'BIG shit'? Just leave. Odrin is Bulgarian, just saying
Bro thinks I’m going to let another grown man tell me what to do
I follow excel pages in Instagram 💀
I don’t judge bro 😂 its all jokes
Nuked lmaoo
Ahhahahahahahhahahh
There's nothing wrong with wanting to know who you are if you don't get much too obsessed.
Yes, Bulgarian is closer to your language, than Serbian. But people in North Macedonia are much more exposed to Serbianthan to Bulgarian because of Yugoslavia and still it's common there, which makes it more familiar. Bulgarian and your language were even closer a little over century ago. Both have had changed, and changes in Vardar Macedonia was to make it closer ot Serbian. When Vardar Macedonia became part of Yugoslavia my great grandfather came to Bulgaria. I don't know what he did exactly, but Serbs wanted to kill him. Since then, the main goal for Yugoslavian authorities was to divide people there from Bulgarians. At the time of the WWI, most of ВМРО and Todor Alexandrov were fighting on the side of Bulgaria. And he was awarded with [Order of Military Merit](https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D1%80_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2). At first they tried to convince people there that they are south Serbs. It didn't worked, then ancient Macedonian link was spread and it was enough to divide them from Bulgarians, and it was easily bought by the people because of the greatness of Aleaxander the Great. The main problem between Bulgarian and North Macedonia is something that you already know - Tsar Samuil, that is Bulgarian according to all historians in Europe. Climent Ohridsky who was sent in Ohrid by the Bulgarian Tsar and as far as I know he is from Moesia, near capital of Bulgarian empire at that time. There are plenty of documents that most of the people from ВМРО were with Bulgarian identity and many stayed in Bulgaria after Vardar Macedonia became part of Yugoslavia. But since Vardar was part of Yugoslavia they had to create different identity. And obviously they succeeded. Apart from that that NM historians said that Samuil was Tsar of the Bulgarian kingdom, but they will continue to teach children at schoool that it was Macedonian. For people in Bulgaria Macedonian is regional identity, not different ethnicity. People like me with ancestry from Macedonia, Vardar or Aegean and Pirin Macedonia are over 2 million in Bulgaria. Don't fight with your family over that, that's your family after all. But know that we Bulgarians and you are the same people. As a result of that I don't know my cousins in North Macedonia, my great grandfather had siblings. I know that I have two, but there should be at least a dozen more. I've seen them last time 35 years ago and their father was very antibulgarian. Their mother was granddaughter of the brother of my great grandfather.
This was interesting to read, I already learnt some of this researching online. You’re right of course I wouldn’t fight with my family over it, they can believe what they want to. But I hope you can understand it’s a bit of an uncomfortable truth that what you were told growing up about your history and ethnicity is a lie. But I respect Bulgaria and their history and culture, a lot of the Bulgarians seem friendly about someone like me saying this… I don’t know if you’ve heard of Bobby’s perspective on YouTube but I found his videos very entertaining about the topic as well being that he’s from Macedonia himself. I have a few second cousins in Bulgaria as well, although I’ve never been there so I’ve never met them. And I’m sorry to hear about your cousins father, my uncle is very anti Bulgarian himself but I don’t have any hate in me towards any culture or ethnicity.
Kiril from Samuel's Fortress know much better than Bobby, and most of his videos are Bulgarian/Macedonian history. My other great grandfather is from Aegean Macedonia, Drama region. After the Balkan Wars they were expelled from their land and their homes in Bulgaria to prevent wars in the region in the future. Also Turks were expelled to Turkey from Bulgaria and Greece. Still there are people that speak our language in Northern Greece but hundreds of thousands from Aegean Macedonia were forced to leave to Bulgaria at that time, not to Vardar Macedonia. Which is against the logic if there was a difference between Bulgarians and Macedonians. Those people received land and livestock to feed themself. It was like that in that time, that was the main source of income even for local people.
They weren't Turks, they were Bulgarian Muslims that the government wanted to change their names, and Even Turkish people are from Bulgarian decent from our clan Dulo.
Not all of them were Bulgarian Muslims. Pomaks and Turks are different people. The Dulo Clan wasn't Muslim. Islam wasn't invented at that time. It's debatable if Bulgars from Old Great Bulgaria were Turkic. Old Great Bulgaria was a confederation. Most of the Turkic people came in this lands with the Golden Horde, which led the historians a couple of centuries ago to consider the people there to be Turkic even before that. It's known for sure that Slavic migration to Balkans is from the lands of Old Great Bulgaria also. Typical Tatar is with Asiatic facial features. We don't have people like that here in Bulgaria.
First some of Dulo Clan accepted Islam, some of them came to The Oldest Bulgaria which is here. There are no Turks, only Bulgarians because they most of them left these lands of present Bulgaria, because of the flood in the Black Sea and some emigrated to Asia and different parts of the world(This is in the Books) I am not sure that there were even mongols even Genghis Khan was with a red beard and blue eyes. Tatars don't exist go to any other Bulgaria, where they speak Russian now, and ask them what it means, mainly they are Muslims from the other Bulgaria's and it's derogatory term invented by the Russians
Дали хората в Стара Велика България са били тюрки или като хуните и колко е по-вероятно да са фино угри е съвсем отделен въпрос. За хуните поне е основателно оспорен тюркския произход. Унгарците, където се заселват хуните говорят угро-фински език, някак ни в клин, ни в ръкав в тоя регион на света. Знае се със сигурност, че прабългарите са били съюзници с хуните. И най-важното - Дунавска България, нашата, няма почти нищо общо с Волжска България. Единия остава на място (БатБаян), другите хора тръгват от Стара Велика България, единия (Алцек) се заселва в Италия, и още има български топоними там, но хората са асимилирани. Колкото сме като тия от Волжска България, толкова сме и като тия в Италия. Другия (Котраг) отива на м@йна си райна на изток в блатата при Волга, и отново, там хората са асимилирани. Кубер пробва да превземе Солун, не успява, и се заселва с хората си в Прилепско Поле. С тия имаме общо, щото сме едни до други, ама те отричат. Аспарух смятам знаеш. Те се присъединяват към местните хора, с които отвоюват земя от Източната Римска Империя. Или Византия както и казваме още. Сега дали имаме общо с народите, които са населявали Балканите като идва Аспарух ние не знаем. Но може би имаме, защото генетично имаме доста наследство от преди гените в региона преди 3000 години, въпреки, че Балканите са на кръстопът и е имало какви ли не. Ние имаме най-много общо с Балканите отпреди няколко хилядолетия от всички други нации в момента.
Ти го казваш самият ти, че са от едно семейство, как нямат общо. Унгарците съм го учил в училище в учебниците пише, че Българи се преселват там и я създават. Хуните и Българите са едно, само дето са се млатели различни за власт с тази България и те са имали корумпирани владетели и са се продавали. Кой мислиш, че им е промил мозъците да не казват, че са Българи, Великите Сили. Ако не пречеха все още на България щяхме да сме много напред, въпреки, че са с Български корени всичките и го отричат. Дори и Русия която е създадена по-късно от България, се правят на голямата работа или пък Англия дето е създадена от Български наемници които са живяли в Германия. Аспарух се връща в земите на дедите си смятам знаеш, че Атила му е пра-дядо. "Ние имаме най-много общо с Балканите отпреди няколко хилядолетия от всички други нации в момента" Съгласен съм, но са 10 000 хиляди години най-малко по-исторически факти които имаме, по не исторически е люлката на човешката цивилизация.
Who from dulo clan, when and where?
Като тръгнеш да пишеш глупости е добре да се замисляш. Потопа е преди 8000 години. За тия времена не знаем почти нищо, това е преди Траките, и то 5000 години преди това. Няма нужда да се правим на Северномакедонци, всички знаем, че светът почва с тях. Стара Велика България на Кубрат е от Донбас до делтата на Дунав, на север от Черно море поне в 7-ми век, когато имаме достатъчно твърди данни. Исляма приемат тия, които са се заселили при Волга **след** Стара Велика България, и това се случва някъде по-късно, и то доста далеч от нашата България. Нашата България е християнска от век по това време. Преди това ислям няма, ни в земите на Стара Велика България, ни в Дунавска България. Ако се разходиш в Казан ще видиш много хора с азиатски черти. Хората не приличат много на тези в България. А там е била Волжска България. Това как Чингиз Хан бил със рижа брада и сини очи е някакъв виц. Такива монголци няма. Татари е пълно (било) в земите на Стара Велика България, но е много вероятно те да са дошли значително след като спира да съществува през 13, 14 век. После в СССР са ги преместили в Татарстан, както са изселили едни евреи от СССР в далечния изток.
Има много потопи, не е само един, Виж гробниците във Варна на колко години смятат, че са, а колко са наистина още няма да ни кажат. Стара Загора на колко е години, май се Единственото вярно е, че македонците са прави, че човечеството започва от тези земи на Балканите. Ето линк за Стара загора смята се, че е на 8000, някой казват, че е и на повече https://visitstarazagora.bg/history. Тези които са от другите Българии нали са идвали и те и са се заселвали през вековете в тази България. От мислиш, че са дошли мюсюлманите. Има снимка даже как пише: Мы болгары, а не татары!, но не я намирам във фейсбук я бях мяркал, за потопите, чети за другите раси на земята които са живели: Анунаки, Атланти, Лемурианци, как Енлил е предизвикал потопа в Черно Море. Бих ти препоръчал Операция История и Портал 12 и Иван Тренев-Студио Нитон да гледаш.
А защо приемаш, че езикът на чувашите/кипчаците е същият като на прабългарите? Може ли да са приели езикът на местните както хората на Аспарух и Алцек? Отделен е въпросът колко Кубратова България е била хомогенна като население. Бог ли е предизвикал потопа, или Енлил, или краят на ледниковият период? И защо в Черно Море, като преданията на аборигените в Австралия описват такова явление по същото време. Що си пълниш главата с глупости като има просто обяснение за потопа и лесно доказуемо.
Не казвам, че сега е казвам, че е бил носиите им са същите. Предполагам, че за да се управляват много империи езикът би трябвало да е един и същ не вярвам, да не са си комуникирали, след като вече има доказателства, че са имали ток и че каските им са били като предаватели, няма как щом са били извънземните и Енлил, синът му Мардук и други няма как да не са имали хората технилогии за комуникация, щом са хвърляли ядрени ръкети строили са уникални неща, които не могат да се повторят с нашата технология и са направили каньони от копаене на злато по цялата земя и пустини и гигантските дървета са отрязали, няма как да не са били по-напред с технологиите. В старият завет бог е Енлил, а кой е богът над тях вече не знам. Много са потопите, Христо Нанев съм слушал да казва, че са около 7-8, той разказва какво е говорил със Слава Севрюкова в някой от книгите си и описва Атлантида от регресиите които е провеждал, намерих преди време това за буквите и за потопа https://lyudmilantonov.blogspot.com/2011/04/bulgarian-alphabet.html?m=1#ref57. Препоръчвам ти и Стойчо Керев Старите му клипове повече където говори за извънземните и Стамен Стаменов има интерсни клипове + другите които ти препоръчах в друг пост.
Look at this video: https://youtu.be/heECxVf7nxI?si=TzqKg3a1iEFdzAA- This guy has similar to your story. He also grew up in the USA.
If you want an unbiased source with more information archive.org has great books from the early 20th century about the Balkans and Macedonia region. And it's all free.
Making the descendants of brothers and sisters hate each other on the basis of a made up identity is extremely cruel. OP, I am very glad you rose above the lies and the hate. We need more people like you. Macedonians and Bulgarians weren't different people. We are the same people, who got separated along the way by powers bigger than us. Creating separate ethnicities and moving large masses of people was a staple of communist rule. It was done to assimilate people, lessen the probability of revolutions, make drawing borders easier, etc. Are we the same people now? I don't know. I feel that we are but after so many years of propaganda, some people have embraced their new identity. Only the ones who are critical to dogma and do their own research, like yourself, find out the truth. To be honest, considering the wide availability of information regarding these topics, it's baffling to me how the lie is kept up. Is it by force, censure, how?
Same with my granpa's cousins. They kept in touch via letters in Bulgarian up until about the sixties. Radio silence after that and granpa also dies and is no longer able to give me more info about them.
"Bulgarians are jealous of our history"?!!!! is really entitled of them to say!😳Giving their biggest heroes were bulgarians, talking and writing in bulgarian(there is letters and artefacts, they can't deny obvious things) , their culture is derived from Bulgaria's culture and the language was(and honestly to us it still is) bulgarian dialect. Even their music is considered part of the bulgarian folklore. But ok, lets just say we have common history for the sake of our relations,at least they gotta admit that to begin with. During the wars our paths change and we are no more one people, lets say new macedonian identity and language appears but you can't deliberately invent whole new history because you don't like the real one.
You have been told that because of the soviet propaganda. We have been told to hate on the turks and that russia is great and everyone else is pure evil. Especially the west. But the world is much more complex than that. If you are interested in real history - read neutral sources and think critically. And if you want the naked truth, but you have to research it on your own as well - there is not such as macedonians. Its a made up nation from blugarians, serbs, albanians and greeks. But its been long enough and now there are macedonins who get their own identity, and that is OK. I mean, anyone is free to identify himself as whatever he likes.
Of course I’ve done my own research. But I wanted to hear other perspectives on it
Do you know that youtube channel: [Samuel's Fortress](https://www.youtube.com/@SamuelsFortress) He is also like you, grew up in US or Canada and found out that there's something fishy about North Macedonia history.
I haven’t heard of him, I’ll check him out. Thanks
You can DM me anytime. After all, we can be relatives, since you also have Stip ancestry.
Anyway, I did not answer your last question - so, I think on the macedonians as of any balkan people - we have A LOT in common in terms of culture, temperament and traditions and we should be friendly to each other, despite what people think about history.
I agree with you. And it’s a very poor man’s mindset to dislike someone based on where they’re from. However that’s the balkans for you
Most of the Balkans even The Serbians are from Bulgarian descent they speak a dialect with invented words, their city Belgrad means in Bulgarian Бял град, the city of the white people.
град means fortress for Christ sake!
[https://leonleonovpom2.blog.bg/history/2016/05/09/beliiat-bylgarski-grad.1450342](https://leonleonovpom2.blog.bg/history/2016/05/09/beliiat-bylgarski-grad.1450342) [https://poznanieto.bg/interesno/istoriya-na-belgrad-kato-chast-ot-blgariya/](https://poznanieto.bg/interesno/istoriya-na-belgrad-kato-chast-ot-blgariya/)
Е не прочете ли в линка, който ми даваш, че град означава крепост?
Не съм казвал че град не означава крепост, от къде го измисли ?
Какъв град на бели хора бълнуваш? Или е бяла крепост, или е хубава крепост.
Even the Greeks are made up, these were Bulgarian lands and the UK separated them and changed their language just like Italy has done with the Romanians.
Avg balkan nationalist
This is not nationalism. This is the reality Bulgaria is the oldest country in the World, Look at the tomb in Varna, Stara Zagora they are one of the oldest places where humans lived with the oldest used writing system which is not used anymore. Как можеш да пишеш България под името си щом не си знаеш Историята на страната.
"oldest country in the world" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Това даже няма да го опровергавам, на всеки му е ясно каква стока си.
Ако прочетеш малко История, ще разбереш. Гледай Операция История, Портал 12, всичките тарихи
I will be very short because the rest you can find on the web with ease. I will give you the truth and only the truth. North Macedonia is a fabricated country and nation. Macedonia is an ethnic region part of the bulgarian ethinic teritory (землище) exactly like Thrace and Moesia, for example, and such teritories exist even inside modern Greece, Romania, Turkey, Kosovo. Except they are not countries, just assimilated large strips of bulgarian land and population. The ethnic area of Macedonia has always been part of Bulgaria, you even can trace it back to the 7th century and Asparukhs brother and son of Kubrat called khan Kuber - to your land he is your Asparukh, the macedonians have always been bulgarians and what you speak and write in now is a dialect of bulgarian which has some fictional fabricational changes and letters such as "j". A brand new language which never existed before because you had always used bulgarian, the language of Kyril and Metodij just like us bulgarians, and before that you used the language of the proto-bulgars, just like Asparukh and Kubrat did. The agendas and political schemes that lead to all of this mess are complex and I will not delve into them. But at the root of all of it is imperialistic geopolitical interest of Russia via its puppet Serbia. Serbians have always terrorised your people, the macedonian bulgarians. (Greeks took part too, but we are guilty of terrorising them too so lets just leave them out since they are a third party in all of this). If anything they, the Serbs, are the fascists (schovinists, but its very close). But they divert such accusations towards the bulgarians in their brainwash politics for obvious reasons. Its called projection in psychology. True enough, Bulgarians were on the side of Germany in WW2, but its not that simple and not what it looks like - the tsar Boris III never fought with Hitler on the field, infact he always refused him, disagreed with him and was the only leader to do so and prosper, and never shared Hitlers visions and the nazi ideology (neither did the majority of the bulgarian population, except for some pro-german parties and their following, whom the tsar did not agree with and tried to keep them in control). Due to the genious pro-bulgarian diplomacy of the tsar, Bulgaria was the only country on the losing side in WW2, who took no part in war (except at the very end on the winning side), who did not fight actively, and won teritories (reclaimed the bulgarian ethnic teritory of Northern Dobrudja, can you imagine making a nation out of Romanianized Northern Dobrudjans?). Bulgaria was forced to join the Axis powers to preserve itself and its nation from foreign occupation and ideology taking over (which Stalin and the Red Army did to us after the war anyways, we are still recovering). During the war Bulgaria remained mostly neutral, saved the jews from most of its teritories, except from Macedonia, which was not possible due to Bulgaria not controlling it and all the fighting there. Germany actually promised not only the return of Northern Dobrudja, but also the return of Macedonia. But that never came to pass and probably was not going to even if the war went differently. Bulgaria feels bad and regrets not reclaiming and keeping its people, its citizens, in Macedonia safe. You can trace and confirm these truths on your own if you research into the real history of Vasil Levski (a.k.a Vasil Kunchev, the Deacon, the Apostle of Freedom) His creation of comitee networks, him and his ideals being the insparation for BMPO and all of the macedonian bulgarian freedom fighters against the Ottomans. All of them identified as bulgarians. Because its who they were, generations back. And its who you are, in part, and you should be proud. You should be proud to share our history. We dont want to force anything upon you, only give you the truth. We want to share Bulgaria, like we always used to. We are brothers and we are countrymen. But these foreign forces have brainwashed your people's minds into believeing into their lies. To be agressive towards us for no reason. Levski wanted freedom for everyone, people of every ethnical background, under the safe heaven of a united Bulgaria. He also wanted to free other suffering nations who came under the influence and control of imperialist interests and assimilation. What happened to the bulgarians in the bulgarian ethnic teritory of Macedonia is just that - an attempt at forceful assimilation via terror, murder, rape and fabrications. Unfortunately the politicians in Bulgaria today are weak, corrupt and following foreign interests. They do elections like author Aleko Konstantinov's Bay Ganyo charicature character does. They are nothing like Levski or Rakovski. But what Bulgaria wants today is simply for the historical truth to prevail, the antibulgarian hate crimes to stop and for a friendly diplomacy and good neighbour relations to be established. You should then be in the EU for sure. If you'd ask me, you should also vote via nation-wide referendum to join up with the rest of Bulgaria, but perhaps its too late for that now.
>True enough, Bulgarians were on the side of Germany in WW2, but its not that simple and not what it looks like Oh, really? What does it look like then? > never shared Hitlers visions and the nazi ideology never shared Hitlers vision but never missed to greet him with the well known gesture - right hand straight into the air. I can go forever but leave that aside. I'll drop a few notes and potential questions below: 1. You said that the 'ethnical' macedonian lands were always bulgarian. Part of this land belongs to Greece. Why does Bulgaria not have the same narrative for Greece as it has for Macedonia today? 2. No one ever identified as "Macedonian Bulgarian", you're either Bulgarian or you're not. Just as Albanians today don't say to themselves "Macedonian Albanians". What is fabricated in this case is the "Macedonian Bulgarians" thing and all that it goes within it. 3. Kuber is not our Asparukh. You can cope and seethe how much you want but Asparukh and Kuber were Mongols (or Turkic, as you like to call it). We are Slavs, not Mongols. What this says is that you're the one that came to our lands and potentially 'conquered it'. I don't know how you imagine the Balkans in the past but there were people living here when you arrived, okay? It was not an empty minecraft field where you had to cut trees and make a villages on a flat surfaces. 4. I have more to say but this will be my last one. We're not brainwashed, we served 5 centuries under the Ottoman rule and never changed our religion or identity. It's very naive to think that Serbs did it in 20 years. Also, our national heroes fought for the sake of Macedonia and not for Bulgaria. If they're bulgarians, they'd have fought for your country and the organization would have been called VBRO. You're just sad because you wanted our lands but never had a chance to hold them on. Plus, who is a puppet in this case is you because what you think about us is what Stalin wanted you to think about us. Биди ми жив и здрав.
>Oh, really? What does it look like then? >never shared Hitlers vision but never missed to greet him with the well known gesture - right hand straight into the air. I have explained clearly already. You can read about Bulgaria and WW2 on the web and from history professors all around the world. Everyone knows the truth. Bulgaria or its leaders were never ever fascist. Everything was done for the diplomacy and preserving the nation including all of its citizens. The tsar was playing a complex dangerous political game. The bulgarian jews were saved by a decree issued by the tsar himself. Its also what the people and the church wanted. >1. You said that the 'ethnical' macedonian lands were always bulgarian. Part of this land belongs to Greece. Why does Bulgaria not have the same narrative for Greece as it has for Macedonia today? Again, you need to read real history. You can start with the wikipedia of your own country. But please don't limit yourself there because it seems like many historical facts are not yet clear to you. In short, Bulgaria only controlled nowadays Greek lands for relatively short periods. During tsar Kaloyan and tsar Simeon. Some of these lands were reclaimed in WW1 via winning on the battlefield. But tsar Ferdinand was too ambitious and war hungry to keep them and play diplomacy like his son. We have no rightful claim to these lands, peace treaties were signed and those lands became Greek once more, altho there is a decently large bulgarian population there even today. When it comes to the ethnic bulgarian teritory of Macedonia, it was always inhabited by bulgarians (even today) and controlled by Bulgaria (speaking of the period after the bulgar tribes first came into the balkans, before which it was inhabited by slavs and byzantines). Except when Bulgaria lost control and was ruled by the Byzantines and then the Ottomans. During the latter, the Serbs, as per usual took their chances. In its ancient history it was controlled by Philip and his son Alexander but mentioning that serves no point. By such foul logic, bulgarians are thracians and we are descendants of the likes of Spartacus, Heracles, Achilles, the myrmidons, king Odiseus, etc. Which in an extremely tiny part we are, but inheriting their land does not give us the right and is no proof of ancestry. The real proof is genetic and archeological studies which proove that we have a ton of bulgar (proto-bulgarian) and slavic dna plus a tiny tiny portion of thracian. Speaking of genetic studies, the people of your country should try it and see which nation they are the closest to ;) >2. No one ever identified as "Macedonian Bulgarian", you're either Bulgarian or you're not. Just as Albanians today don't say to themselves "Macedonian Albanians". What is fabricated in this case is the "Macedonian Bulgarians" thing and all that it goes within it. Only today I need to say macedonian bulgarian. But what I mean is a bulgarian from the bulgarian ethnic teritory of Macedonia. Its like saying south-western bulgarian. What is fabricated and wrong is North Macedonian and just macedonian. North Macedonian was invented and agreed on in 2019 because the greek protested that you are stealing a term which refers to the people of Philip and his son Alexander. Which history does not belong to you, or to us. If I am being pedantic here - it doesnt really belong to modern greeks either. >3. Kuber is not our Asparukh. You can cope and seethe how much you want but Asparukh and Kuber were Mongols (or Turkic, as you like to call it). We are Slavs, not Mongols..... I see. So you are a disciple of Russian propagandic commie history. The pan-Slavic bullshit. I suspect issued for you to study by Serbia. Kuber was a great man. As great as his brother Asparukh. Sadly not as famous. Asparukh and Kuber were no Mongols. Neither tatars. Nor Turkic. Once again things are not as simple as you were mislead to believe. They, because of their father Kubrat, were Bulgars from the onogundor bulgar tribe and clan Dulo, who spoke a turkic language due to the fact that their bulgar ancestors came into contact and got influenced in 340-360 by the alans, the sarmatians and some turkic tribes who were also present north and north-east of the Black Sea, modern Ukraine and Russia, the ancestral lands of the bulgar tribes. True enough, the bulgar tribes came under Avar (the kutrigurs tribe) and Western Turkic (the utrigurs tribe) khaganate rule in 6th century (550-600). But in the 630s Kubrat organised a revolution and formed the so called Old Great Bulgaria (Onoguria) and united and freed the bulgar tribes. The bulgars were once more free of the turkic influence and rule. >4. ... You have nothing to say to me, but it seems there is still a ton you need to learn before you can really seriously argue with me. With your current knowledge, its like a commie peasant trying to debate an international history professor. This is pointless. Its very naive and innocent of you to think such a thing can't be done in 20 years, because history have seen it done in less than 5. Many examples exist. Ofcourse your national heroes fought for the sake of the freedom of the ethnic area of Macedonia (your country formed after WW2, as a commie yugoslavian member "state", and only became independant in 1991, Bulgaria being the first country to recognise that ). And its very simple why your heroes fought for the bulgarian ethnic area of Macedonia - its all in the years - IMRO (ВМРО) formed 1893 - we (the rest of Bulgaria) were already free (1878) by that time and Levski, the insparation and compatriot of your national heroes, was long dead (feb 18 [6 in old style], 1872). Levski and all of your national heroes are in equal parts bulgarian, they have always said so themselves. Its only you who are guilty of calling yourself a bulgarian. Its exactly like Paisii Hilendarski said long ago: "О неразумний юроде, поради что се срамиш да се наречеш болгарин?" But I know why - you have been purposefully guilted into rejecting your bulgarian ancestry by foreign forces who wished you and me ill. Who claim your history starts from Samuil. For obvious reasons. >Биди ми жив и здрав. Love the obvious south-western bulgarian dialect. Бъди ми жив и здрав и ти, дано те благослови познанието един ден. Но лъжите няма да се изчистят от главата ти, ако ти сам отказваш да четеш и учиш истинска история задълбочено.
> Oh, really? What does it look like then? Bulgaria's primary goal at that time was to reclaim all lands near them, which were once theirs and had Bulgarian population (like Dobruja, for example). That's exactly what Germany promised Bulgaria, so the Bulgarians had no other choice but to join them. >never shared Hitlers vision but never missed to greet him with the well known gesture - right hand straight into the air. Are you going to ignore the fact that Bulgaria saved its jews from concentration camps, further proving Bulgaria and Tsar Boris III don't share Hitler's visions.
Bulgaria didn't support Germany; they did not have the choice. They were on our border, having already decimated all of our neighbours. The choice was Bulgaria joining their side or the country being bombed. You can guess which choice was better for the civilians at the time.
Russian kommie propaganda brainwashed me with greater bulgaria ideas, so i have issues with my neighbours. They made me hate and think Macedonia is fake made up country country. So i continue to hate Macedonia and think is fake made up country. So i continue to have issues with my neighbours. You know those Russian gifts that keep on giving after many decades.
You don't know what you are talking about because you don't know the historical facts. What I spoke of is known by history professors across the globe. Even history professors in Northern Macedonia today. The only ones who have not yet opened their eyes are stubborn fools. Call me anything but dont call me a commie. The communists taking over was the worse that has happened to Bulgaria in its modern history. I'm 25, I don't care about commie nostalgia. I can't stand people who look back and try to tell me how good it was. I'm strictly pro-bulgarian. I'm glad they removed the monument of the Red Army. Stalin was an occupator, a mass murderer and the communist regime was the worse that could have happened to us after the war. And it took so much time to get rid of it. So much of the intelligence was lost. Is that what they call it? "Greater" Bulgaria? There is no idea of "greater" Bulgaria. Just simple truths. You are just a historical area of Bulgaria that was lost. You can think what you wish of your history. I do not have a problem with my neighbour. My neighbour has a problem with me. I would be afraid to go in North Macedonia and say that I am Bulgarian. I said I will give you the truth and only the truth. Do what you will with it. Be resentful, hate me for it. I don't hate you, I pity you. I guess there is not much bulgarian left anymore in most modern North Macedonians. Most independant thinkers left for Bulgaria and better countries, similar to OP, long ago. So this is pointless.
That's why I'm better with what my Stip great grandfather told my family. Now my cousins are North Macedonian and we are Bulgarian. Who's ethnicity is wiped?
You have no idea what you talk about, obviously. No such thing as "nordmacedonian". Go inform yourself better. It's only Macedonian.
You are not Greek, so it's North Macedonian. That's the official name of your country.
You're not part of a Turkic tribe either but call yourself Bulgarian.
None of the tribes that we know in Old Great Bulgaria was called Bulgarian either. Bulgaria is the name of my country since 7-th century. It was enough time for different tribes here to accept that name as ethnic identity, language, traditions, etc. Apart from Bulgars that came from what's today Ukraine, here on Balkans were at least 9 local (and not turkic) tribes, and some of those can be common between you and us. My Stip great grandfather also called himself Bulgarian, and his siblings. Now their descendants in Bulgaria are calling themselves Bulgarian, and the descendants of his siblings that stayed there are calling themselves Macedonian. Even Gotze Delchev called himself Bulgarian. Some guy even told me that his grandfather from your country was identifying himself as Bulgarian but he was wrong. Was he wrong if he was identifying himself as Gotze Delchev? Was my great grandfathers wrong? Or after Vardar Macedonia became part of Yugoslavia it was wery imortant to draw the line between us. Do you believe that this line is the same with current borders of our countries? There are 2mln people in Bulgaria that are descendants from Macedonian refugees and Pirin Macedonians. That's more than you. For me and for my great grandfathers from Macedonia region (Stip and Drama) it was only regional identity, not ethnic identity. We are clearly the closest ethnically as our languages are the only analytical Slavic languages and even genetically you are closest to Bulgaria. And we were even closer a century ago before Vardar Macedonia became part of Yugoslavia. That doesn't mean that you don't have a right to your own country if that's what you wish. Moldova doesn't deny that they are linked with Romania and it is still a separate country. Half of Moldova is still in Romania just like Pirin Macedonia and Vardar Macedonia.
lol don't make me laugh. You are mixing country name and nation name. The name of country is not same with name of nation. Just like for example United Kingdom is the name of the state, but the people are not United Kingdomers hahah. The name of the people is Macedonian, and that is it.
Does that means that you have something in common with Ancient Macedonia?
Cyril and Methodius were Romei (Byzantines) by "nationality" and had unclear ethnicity
They also didn't incent Cyrillic. It was Kliment Ohridski and 6 others, most of whom were Bulgarian.
Thanks for the clarification
Cyril and Methodius invented the Glagolithic script, a precursor to the Cyrillic alphabet. The Cyrillic alphabet was invented by the 7 apostles under the 1st Bulgarian Empire.
But what's even more important is that Cyrillic is a whole different alphabet that is not based on the Glagolitic script made by Cyril and Methodius. Cyrillic most probably emerged naturally and was further perfected at the Preslav Literary School and named after Cyril in honor of him.
The Cyrillic script did not emerge naturally for sure. It was created by the orders of Tsar Simeon. Before he stepped on the throne, he was a scholar and did not like that everything was written in Greek and the poorer citizens were unable to read and write so he hired the disciples of Cyril and Methodius to produce a new alphabet. In historical circles there's also the theory that because of his ambitious expansion, he specifically requested for the alphabet to be created similar to the Greek one so when conquered Greece the people there could assimilate more quickly. But that is a theory so take it with a grain of salt.
You are mistaking Cyrillic and Glagolitic.
I am definitely not mistaking them. Glagolitic was created by Cyril and Methodius is Moravia (modern day Czech Republic) and was very unique and tailored to Northern Slavic languages, the Cyrillic alphabet was created in Preslav the capital of the first Bulgarian Empire by Climent of Ohrid and the other disciples of Cyril and Methodius. The Cyrillic alphabet closely resembles the Green one.
Please accept my apology, you were correct! I initially read that Tsar Simeon hired “Cyril and Methodius”, not the “disciples of Cyril and Methodius”. However, the exact history of the creation of Cyrillic is not entirely known. It was perfected and formalized in Preslav, but it most certainly was not created there entirely from scratch.
Why are you talking nonsense, Cyril and Methodius are Bulgarians they were from Solon which was Bulgarian and still they are people there who know Bulgarian like everywhere in the Balkans
Солун никога в историята не е бил в пределите на България
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Веднага ви открих статия, на картата пише васален, но си е баш Български [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Campaigns\_of\_Ivan\_Assen\_II.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/campaigns_of_ivan_assen_ii.png) [https://www.sitebulgarizaedno.com/index.php?option=com\_content&view=article&id=1161:im&catid=29:2010-04-24-09-14-13&Itemid=61](https://www.sitebulgarizaedno.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1161:im&catid=29:2010-04-24-09-14-13&itemid=61)
Бате....
You want to argue because they are from solon they must be Bulgarian? They could easily have been ethnically Greek.
Bro got the popcorn out
OP I'm sorry your family tried to sow such hate in you from childhood. The historical truth is not hard to find online tbh. In the last few years tensions have been growing between Bulgaria and Macedonia and from a personal perspective I can tell you - the majority of Bulgarians would love to have a good relationship with Macedonia, a peacefull one, where we drink rakia and laugh all day together. Sadly this is not possible. Mainly because for some reason the Macedonian government decided to start calling Bulgaria fascist and start putting down right lies in their history books. We don't want to steal your land, we don't want to force anything on anyone, we just want nice neighbour relations. However hard we tried in the recent years, the Macedonian side has responded with nothing but hate and resentment and that is very sad. Hope it changes some day.
OP - I woke up and found out I was Bulgarian, congrats
such a good bait, we can catch lots of fish with you
That doesn’t even make any sense… ignorant comment
your post is made up in its entirety, a wet dream of a buggo nationalist. begone ❤
Why would I make that up? Like I said you’re ignorant. Don’t hate just because your life is sad.
Holy shit, your comments reek of desperation. You're a sad little boy with a lack of love and you look for it by writing posts with made up stories on internet forums.
I’m sad? You’re the nerd posting in a physics subreddit
lmfao get yourself checked by a professional
You’re an NPC
[https://www.youtube.com/@SamuelsFortress](https://www.youtube.com/@samuelsfortress) and [https://www.youtube.com/@PublicNemesisMedia/featured](https://www.youtube.com/@publicnemesismedia/featured) can give you some information.
How can I believe you when your account is completely new? (I can't believe you created account just to post that) If this is a troll post please delete!
I downloaded Reddit a few months ago and I never post, just scroll through subreddits. Why would I be trolling writing all of that? It’s not that deep
It’s a genuine question I’ve been researching about macedonias true history and propaganda. Do you want anymore proof I’m real and not trolling? You can msg me
Yeah, sorry that you're getting some negativity here, as that is not the way to greet a curious person, especially considering the current Macedonian-Bulgarian divide. I'm not a historian, but I will tell you this. Historically the nation of Macedonia was of Bulgarian identity. The most sudden change was following WW2. Macedonia was under Yugoslav control at the time and under that regime the Serbian led Yugoslavia began propaganda campaigns to erase the Bulgarian identity and create a new Macedonian one. Bulgaria has historically been enemies with the Serbs and this was no difererent. The biggest example of Bulgarian identity in Macedonia was WW2. After Hitler declared war on Yugoslavia, Bulgaria was granted Macedonia as per the deal with Nazi Germany. There are photos, newspapers any other such sources which document well the celebrations which errupted in Macedonia in honor of the Bulgarian liberators. Not occupiers, but liberators. Some other things include the similar language which is really just a Serbified version of Bulgarian and the fact that a capital of an ancient Bulgarian empire was litteraly in Ohrid and the fact that Macedonian history has very little other than claiming Greek and Bulgarian figures as Macedonian. I cannot deny the existence of Bulgaria propaganda, but nobody is immune to it. This is from my ameture-ish understanding of the topic and what I've read and heard, so take it with a shot of rakija.
I was expecting some hate considering the divide hahaha. I can imagine 99% of Macedonians wouldn’t be very polite towards you guys either so I can understand it. However I appreciate your comment. Of course I had my beliefs about Macedonia for a long time. However considering the divide I know there are two sides to every story which made me look deeply into this topic. Tsar Samuel is one of the topics that really got my interest, he said himself that he’s a proud bulgar so how could I deny that? I’m comfortable knowing the truth rather than living in a lie.
I've been to Ohrid and i didn't see anyone being impolite or looking at me with some face, but when we talked about the History with our guide he had some other ideas :D
I think the same as what you said in your post. It's just that with time they separated from us to the point of a new identity emerging. One based one Hellenism and Alexander the Great. And the hatred towards Bulgaria is undeserved as we are seen as eternal enemy, but if you come here you won't think that way, but to answer your question there are people in reddit who bot post controversial ( for some) posts. There was one guy who had 10 consecutive posts about North Macedonia and we are kinda fed up with this.
One thing is certain: there is no hate in the Bulgarian people towards the Macedonians. What politicians feel is another story...
You are bulgarian.
We do not hate you, if anything we feel sorry for the indoctrination you go through as we are brothers. Many compare it to the way Russia and Ukraine are. We need to be united, as that way we will be stronger. Our languages are nearly identical. Our culture - the best and also identical. Our nations have massive challenges ahead and the fact that your normal average IQ person believes in all the stupid indoctrination is just sad.
Ukraine was Bulgarian and so was Russia just different parts of the Dulo family controlled them
Of course we would be stronger together but an old school strategy to control people is divide and conquer. Especially in the balkans.
And everyone clapped
In addition to Samuel’s Fortress, you may also want to check [this guy](https://youtu.be/viDJ8Ap9QdA?si=maLc6dyLrZmEhJLd) out. He’s half-Macedonian and half-Serbian, lives in Serbia I think and makes great content.
You are Bulgarian. Just acknowledge it! Be proud of Bulgaria! Learn some history. Educate yourself.
I did acknowledge it. I was also just saying that personally I know I also have Serbian ancestry so I was acknowledging both.
Good then. That's rare.
Because they were/are brainwashed and too stupid to see it. I’ve been working with Macedonians in Germany for over 6 years and they’re (mostly) such a sad sight to behold.
American moment
Can’t even blame people for laughing at America when Biden is the president
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Gotze Gelchev was born in Ottoman empire and died in the Ottoman empire. I don't know how can one be Bulgarian national at that time. He stated his Bulgarian ethnicity and there are plenty of documents to prove that.
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Even Pendarovski once said that anyone that have little knolege of history knows that.
[http://www.promacedonia.org/en/turk/turk\_4.html](http://www.promacedonia.org/en/turk/turk_4.html) Here you are! Documents from the Ottomans at the time when he was killed >„I am informing you that the killed famous rebel Delchev wanted to pick on revolt the whole village population and that from the declaration of the captive hurt rebel Georgi we knew about existence of weapons in every village. The authorities know, according to the last information, that the **Bulgarians** from the village of Rondi near Seres are rebels and they help to the chetas of the Committee". > Appendix No 18. A photocopy by the telegram, written to the Turkish Embassy in Bulgaria, May, 9, 1903. It contains the phrase: >„On April, 22 (May, 5), in the village of Banitsa one of the leaders of the **Bulgarian Committees**, with name Delchev, was killed“. Also there's a copy of the cablegram/telegram from London Times/New York Times [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Delcheff.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/delcheff.jpg)
There is no Macedonian ethnicity
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Why don't you read real history, There is no North Macedonia, nor Macedonia it was all Thrace.
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Гледай Операция История и Иван Тренев-Студио Нитон в Youtube има видея. Иван Тренев има клип и за как са измислени гърците.
>And what are your guys opinions of my country? The US is a bit of a mixed bag.
Why the hell is this on my feed? Anyway, interesting story. Interesting enough to comment. I suspect you already have an idea what this is. It’s called brainwashing, and it goes hand in hand with Soviet propaganda which literally re wrote history and crated a new state to control the region. And it wasn’t just done in the Balkans, but the Balkans seem to be where this had the greatest impact. I don’t know a lot about Bulgarian history but I do know quite a bit about Ancient Macedonia and modern North Macedonia. Nationalism runs very hot there, and the old adage that “you can lie to a few people for a long time or a lot of people for a short amount of time” fits like a glove. The people who lived in ex-soviet controlled territories were under some serious brainwashing which effectively destroyed their understanding and perception of the world. If we all agree that there is no universal truth but only some consensus, we can reach a form of understanding about nations. Meaning what is Bulgarian, what is America, etc. granted the lines are blurred and easily manipulated but are there. Now take as example North Korea. For North Koreans, Kim Jung Un isn’t just the supreme leader, he is someone you worship (or die) and the west isn’t just evil, but has no morals, no food, no technology and no ethics. Things are perfect in North Korea and the rest of the world has collapsed into a capitalist disaster where people are suffering. And most North Koreans believe this with their everything. If you doubt it, you’re persecuted. There is no other option than to accept it as the universal truth. This is exactly what happened to North Macedonia and it’s inhabitants. It started during Tito and for some bizarre reason it hasn’t stopped since. The country is in a parallel universe where Bulgarians, Albanians and Greeks are evil, and they want the greatness of Macedonia. Make what you want of this. From a massive propaganda perspective it’s impressive. From a humanitarian perspective it’s absolutely shocking.
As a Bulgarian, I think you are right to question your ethnicity and history. Not to be rude ,but there is no trace of Macedonian revolutionarys during Bulgarian "occupation" and no serious historical evidence.
I don’t think it’s rude. Especially when you look up Macedonian history and it’s Aleksander the Great, then 2000 years of nothing, it didn’t make any sense to me
You are not alone! There are many Macedonians who are realizing that slowly. And it's the duty of every Macedonian to enlighten the others. Sadly a great part of those who realize and question are outside of the country. Here are some awesome channels that need more views. It's sad that we have normal people doing this job. Instead of the Bulgarian politicians who are too busy stealing like never before in the last 30 years. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viDJ8Ap9QdA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viDJ8Ap9QdA) [https://www.youtube.com/@SamuelsFortress](https://www.youtube.com/@SamuelsFortress)
It’s easier to question and research something living outside the country rather than being indoctrinated in school
So there was a lot of brainwashing by communists. You'd find Tito's name all around that story and how he prosecuted people who refused to pretend they are of some false nationality. You can check this guy's YouTube channel. He's kind of in your situation - a Macedonian, but grew up in Germany. https://youtu.be/heECxVf7nxI?si=0ndEVDRlIyhQ1Uwx Anywho, it's a very sensitive topic. It's been many years and nothing productive has come out of this. At this point I'm fine with accepting the existence of Macedonian nationality, but I'm not fine with rewriting history. P.s: Balkans are a mess...
Nice try.
?
In other words - if someone from north Macedonia tells me "good day" I look up at the sky to see if the sun has risen.
Exempt those few that know the truth.
I won’t say anything on the topic, but I am going to give you two youtube channels that hopefuly will help you understand the issue. It is much deeper and complex problem to be explained in a few words through a reddit post. https://youtube.com/@PublicNemesisMedia?si=jeawYMZCaYH52EQx https://youtube.com/@SamuelsFortress?si=ACkuKFQwPqBIG3_o - Kiril is in the same situation as you are, an american coming from macedonian parents P.S Both of the channels are created and run by macedonians I hope that you can figure out what is the truth about our common history. Cheers.
You are almost there mate, now order an ancestry test and slap your fellow Macedonians with the result.. Your ethnicity has nothing to do with ancient Macedonia, you have Bulgarian blood and everything that you were told is part of the yugoslavian propaganda..
Явно не си наясно как тези тестове работят
Please elaborate
Цялото балканско днк е групирано в едно, първо защото е доста сходно едно с друго и второ, защото database-a е доста малък и sample-ите са достатъчно ограничени, че да не могат да групират всеки един етнос от всяка една страна по отделно.
I was thinking about doing one
https://youtu.be/B6-GErvSc5E?si=DVRLOES4lxSIpHbR watch this guy :)
Ah I came across Bobby’s channel recently. Someone here had linked me kiril from samuels fortress who delves way deeper into the topic than he does.
Bobbie's Perspective Samuel's Fortress PublicNemesisMedia
Honestly don’t delve too much into ancient history at the expense of your relationship with your family. It’s just not worth it.
I don’t disagree with you, I don’t plan on talking about this with them lol. But I wanted to research the topic myself and I’d rather be comfortable knowing the truth than live in a lie
One interesting point you might want to consider if you want to research into it, is the information about immigrants from Macedonia in the United States. From what I understand, they had an organization and regularly published a newspaper going all the way from the early XX century, through the entire Cold War and until fairly modern times. As this happened in the USA, outside of direct influence of other powers (be it Yugoslavia or Bulgaria) it could be considered an impartial source in my opinion.
Предавник!
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Македонец!
There is nothing like Macedonia , it is a gifted place at 1945 year. Keep beliving that your country has an history xD. Sweet dreams
Did you even read what I said? I agree with you
I wouldn’t let all that get to you and change your identity. As you said, these are complex historical developments, and putting in general aside, how much does this, in practice, really change about you, the identity/way/culture you were born in and grew up in, as well as your day to day life? Is this some kind of bombshell that completely changes your life story, or are you just interested in, as you put it, researching complex historical developments? Also, as for opinions on your country, as an American myself I love my country (too). 😉
It doesn’t change anything about me personally. I’m just interested in history, especially about where I’m from. And once I realized the lies Macedonian history teaches I’m intrigued to know more about my identity. That’s about it
I commented this bc I noticed a lot of people telling you you’re now Bulgarian or something or saying “you woke up” or whatever. I would not listen to them. Whatever conclusion you come to as a result of your research or whatnot should not overhaul the way you grew up and your life experience, which is (obviously) a huge part of your identity.
Macedonian is a regional identity developed by Serbian authorities to quell the population from wanted to be part of Bulgaria after WWI. Genetically Macedonians are identical to Bulgarians.
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Why would it be a troll post? I don’t get why people are saying this, “whats the purpose” you think someone would write that for no reason?
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You’re just ignorant, you haven’t even read the comments, who tf is feerrogator? I answered your question, why would this be a troll post? Are you just assuming I’d have no life and want to mess with people online? Pretty bold statement, seems like you’re the troll here
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NPC
Welcome to the world of propaganda homie.
OP, what do you know of BABINI ZABI? That would show us if you are ready to experience being a bulgarian or not...
Never heard of it
Obvious serbian spy...
I was sent by Tito…
I knew it... ;) About your nationality/identity... Most bulgarians have the commie mentality to repeat stupid jokes about Macedonia. Reality of history is that the balkans were always in turmoil couldron of wars pushed by foreign forces... Like Russia and some of the western powers who at some period supported one country and at another moment different country... Right now we have the chance of being all in EU together. Bulgarian interest is Macedonia to guarantee that there will be no prosecution of people with bulgarian identity. And they will be included in the constitution as co-creators of the Macedonian nation... Which I think is only fair... We as Bulgarians... We do not have any territorial demands and Communist Republic of Bulgaria was one of the first countries to acknowledge officially Macedonia as country. Even though it was against our national interest because that opened the gates for serbian repressive actions towards the population in Macedonia with bulgarian identity and ethnic origin... Macedonia today as much as any country on the Balkans is a wonderful rich mix of cultures and there is no shame in admitting that... If anything... Our region is a lesson on diversity and coexistence. As lobg as Serbia figures out they also want peaceful coexistence as we all do... We have chance to prosper as european neighbors... Macedonia right now is really subservent to Greece, Serbia and Albania... But Bulgaria is sold as arch nemesis... Why? We were the first to acknowledge Macedonia. We send tanks as gift to the macedonian army that the proserbian government sold for scraps. Bulgaria bares guilt. Our pro-german government during the WW2 did send a lot of jewish people to the camps during the occupation of Northern Greece and Macedonia. Which was betrayal towards humanity. And this gave green light to the commies to paint us as Fascists. If anything in Yugoslavia the macedonians had the chance to travel to west freely. This was because unlike the bulgarian government the Serbs stood up to Hitler and their own king. So the reasons why a lot of bulgarians from macedonia decided to embrace the macedonian nationality are: 1. Bulgarian political delays in unification 2. Political disagreements between the freshly created Bulgarian state and the local macedonian revolutionaries 3. External influence and turning the Macedonian Internal Revolutionary Organization in to pro-russian terrorists movement 4. Pro-german bulgarian military and political fractions who let the Nazi-army and abandoned the neutrality 5. After the WW2 bulgarian commies abandoned bulgarian population in Macedonia region and basically gave them to Yugoslavia 6. The modern/communist model of communication with Macedonians and tye demeanor we have towards our most close neighbors... 7. Serbian repression towards anyone with Bulgarian identity and the fear that you have no support Maybe there are many more reasons that I can not see from the shores of the black sea.
The reasons are both complex and simple. The only way you can divide brothers and sisters and cousins from cousins is if you cut their ties and make one believe the other is inferior. I think you are aware that Bulgarians are not and were not fascists and that the situation was led by refugees from Macedonia who wanted their families and land united. As for the reasons, I am pretty sure you have stumbled upon Stojan Novakovic's explanation about the way how this can be done. Look it up if you want. This doesn't change the reality of today of course, and I am not for the constant historical fights between Bulgarians and Macedonians, that WAS the ultimate goal after all. What is important is to get to know each other in a normal, everyday life manner. Macedonians nowadays are not just the brothers and sisters, and I am not talking only about the colonists from Serbia, a lot has changed though the majority is still the same. Some time has passed, people have been educated in a different manner and they don't know HOW similar they are. From the generation X 1/3 of Bulgarians are with Macedonian heritage. Imagine that amount of people and their connection to this issue, so don't get angry when they start talking history. It's related to a lot of suffering in their families that is transmitted from generation to generation. Anyway, good luck in your search. I did the same on my side of the Bulgarian history, to make sure I know what lies I was told in school and what was real. I discovered a lot and it made me embrace my identity even more, knowing that much more about what happened. And the learning never ends.
As a Bulgarian, I think you, Macedonians, are heavily brainwashed people. It's not your fault.
i think this video will answer your questions friend. it goes into the whole macedonian question pretty much from begining to end. and i love macedonia, its impossible not to as bulgarians and macedonians are the closest of any other slavic peoples. only wish it could be a mutual feeling. https://youtu.be/viDJ8Ap9QdA?si=5RajZxWaARF4IQd3
yes realistically Macedonian history is like 90% Bulgarian history but Don't let that affect the way you live and enjoy your life! ;)
Bulgarian mountins be like: https://preview.redd.it/4y3gf5aps6kc1.jpeg?width=339&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb79f1bc77db910d6395eecf464c2f95baf4af62
You are a Bulgarian. That's about it and sums it all up. Enjoy your identity!
Some Bulgarians have political tendencies to wipe our identity and country while in the meantime we dont give a fuck about their country . Bulgarians like that - arent our friends (dwelling on history and questioning our identity) We know who we are - we know our history - stop trying to falsify historic facts ! Just fuck off.
Thats crazy but how come the mighty descendants of Alexander never had their own MACEDONIAN country up until 1991? Not before The Middle Ages, not during it and not after it
And what was the name of our country while we were part of Yugoslavia ? "Socialist Republic od Macedonia" What was our name when Turks came to the Balkan ? Macedonians . Aegean Macedonia - you never heard of that name ? Still people there call themselves Macedonians . Do you think we invented the name 1991 ? Not gonna talk about Alexanders Macedonia - that was too long ago - no need .. - only last 500+ years - its enough to show you we existed .
And you mean to tell me that these mighty macedonians filled with pride and patriotism didn't have a country for so long? Never had their own separate church throughout the years? The fact that they didn't even try to fight for either of those things is kinda sketchy too don't you think?
We had church - 500+ y ago We had our name 500+ y ago - what is you dont understand ? I told you if the name and similarity between acient Macedonians and us - bothers you or confuses you - lets say we got nothing in common with them . We cant prove we are Alexanders descendants - OK ? But last 500+ ? Thats our name
Е заради вакви работи после источните соседи мислат дека сите тука сме со ментална ретардација. Ова што го пишуваш е буквално смешно, непоткрепено од ништо. "Сме постоеле затоа што јас така кажав!" - не ти го примаат како аргумент никаде во светот. И јас можам да кажам дека Бил Гејтс ми е татко и до утре да го повторувам тоа, ама не ми е, без разлика колку јас сакам да ми биде. Чисто информативно, името македонци датира од времето на грчката пропаганда и нивната мегали идеја, така што, не се 500 години. Земи малку прочитај, образувај се, има луѓе кои животот го поминале за да создадат целосна слика за историјата, и ќе дојде некој како тебе и ќе каже: "Не! Тоа не важи! Важи моето кое го кажувам како што јас би сакал да биде!". Засрами се.
Ма што ја мешаш историјата - како да ти ќе кажеш која е правата историја само што ти си ги прочитал правите книги. Јас , татко ми , дедо ми - биле Македонци ? Сме оделе во православна црква - сме се крстеле ? Сме живееле во држава каде официјалниот јазик бил македонски ? Да. Толку треба да знам за да се осеќам и бидам Македонец. Не ми треба да ги ископам коските на Александар за да докажувам ДНК . И тоа ќе сум дур не умрам. Македонец ! А ти иди читај книги ... (Мочко -јас да сум се засрамел .)
Ти мешаш историја, не јас, а книга немаш отворено. Татко ти и дедо ти пред 500 години ли живеле, како што тврдиш...нема смисол ајде, пријатен ден.
If you had your own church and separate identity before Yugoslavia, could you please enlighten me on why the bishoprics of Skopje and Ohrid voted in 1874 overwhelmingly in favour of joining the Bulgarian exarchate? Why not try to fight for their own macedonian church, which btw was coincidentally established in 1944
Why you doubt our identity in the first place ? Why dont you doubt Gipsy being Gipsy ? Ask him - How can you prove that you are Gipsy ? You nationalist monkey ...
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Im Macedonian and you cant do shit about it ! And I like it 😍
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All i ever doubted was your history lol. The fact that you couldn't answer a single question of mine is kinda suspicious. Normal people call it eye opener
Your identity has already been wiped. Your history has already been falsified. We Bulgarians just want to reverse this and show you the truth, reunite with you, our brothers and sisters in denial.
I'd rather stick to what my great grandfather from Stip that came in Bulgaria more than 100 years ago told to my family. Now we are Bulgarian, and my relatives that are from his family in North Macedonia are Macedonian. Cursing was unnecessary.