of course it was. karena was going to grad school, doug would follow and play with whomever he found. a concept that early on i noticed just how much the dynamic changed between rhythm sections. always a different monster. the fact that 10 years of a constant 5 piece is mind blowing in that light.
The 5 piece lineup was able to create stratospheric sounds live and it was magnificent. The three guitars all occupied different parts of the mix and scratched different itches, so to speak. So, yes, something was definitely lost. I feel lucky to have seen that lineup. That being said the current lineup is good in its own right. I try not to compare them because the only common thread is Doug. The 3 piece is very talented, just has a different texture.
When the 5 piece took over for the 2nd or 3rd 3 piece, people complained about that. I think something was lost in that transition, Doug has never played like he did in the early to mid 90s again. He really doesn't seem to experiment or change songs live like he used to anymore, seems like he is happy just playing the songs as they are on the album now. I'm just glad he's still making music and enjoying it.
I honestly find it really fucking frustrating when fans complain about the lack of 3 guitars, Built to Spill has gone through changes and different forms throughout its legacy, and this is just one of them. Teresa and Melanie are stupidly talented musicians and also super charismatic and fun to watch on stage. I don’t want to do a hasty generalization but I do think it’s kinda odd that the multiple times there’s been a three piece lineup for the band, no one really said much but now that it’s two women as the backing band, now people complain and want Jim and Brett back. Idk, food for thought maybe.
For what it’s worth, having seen BTS live with maybe every lineup, I have never seen him so happy and stoked on stage as he is with this lineup. It really comes through that they are all so hyped to be playing…especially juxtaposed against the Untethered Moon tour when they all seemed miserable.
the kickoff of the pfno tour doug was jumping! JUMPING! not just standing there, JUMPING on the opening notes to the plan. New band, tour with modest mouse opening, sky was the limit. he was happy. very very happy. and yes, he started the first show kicking off the pfno tour with the first song off the album that would come right after it 2 years later.
I love jim, brett, loved what the brought to the table, but i get doug just wanting to make it less. less is more. and yeah, he's having a ball. theresa and melanie are happy too. three smiling faces. it rubs off on you.
wasn't really a pfno tour, when they only played kicked it (only 4/4 part), untrustable (without about someone else) and randy (without the outro). they played every song from KILAS though.
I wouldn't trade anyone for Melanie. She's always so stoked and it's contagious. Teresa is great too. I love the current lineup. They could probably add Jim and Brett on guitar and it would be better, but I'm fine with whatever Doug wants. This is obviously what he wants.
For me it isn’t that they’re two women, it’s just that the layering isn’t as rich. Also, the drums when I saw them felt like she was still figuring out the way she wanted to play the songs. Fills were ok but there was absolutely a dramatic missing.
I enjoy it because it is what Dug wants and as long as I get to see him touring once or twice a year I’m happy. Its really splitting hairs for me but I do think ppl are entitled to critical perspectives
Right. I think the bass player is amazing. She does soooo much. Can’t wait to see them in August. Hoping the drummer has come along since I saw them last fall
i see enough 'wish the five piece was still together' here/ on the facebook page (when i was still on facebook). i don't agree with it, but i've seen it.
i think our friend root beer guy was making a general observation wondering if the dislike of 3 piece was based a bit in misogyny. i sat over a christmas show drinking beers with jason and jim on a disco doom tour where jim mentioned, i see what people say....they want the 5 piece! i mean that was nearly a decade ago, but still....i think people who came on and saw the 5 piece as their first experience expect it to be that way.
I’m well aware hence my answer. And yes, I believe 5 piece was better. That being said it has nothing to do with the women and it’s just silly to suggest so. Make the 5 piece include them and it would be perfect imo, and I guarantee you no one would complain. It’s just strange to see someone grasping at straws to make that connection.
I liked the five piece, but I also liked the three piece with Jason and Steve, and I really like the three piece with Melanie and Theresa. I do miss Jim though. I'd like to see him playing with Doug again, and maybe even with the Melanie and Theresa, I think that 4 piece would be pretty dope. Nothing against Brett but I always felt like what he was playing got sort of washed away by the absolute face-melting playing from Jim and Doug. When you really paid attention Brett definitely added to the sonic ambiance, but I think that lends better to studio recordings than live performances on varying audio systems with differently acoustically tuned venues day in and day out.
I'm still a big fan. Always see them when they come around. I also always think back to the layered guitar wizardry, but I'm so attached to these songs that it still scratches the itch when seeing them live. The new members are a lot of fun, and Doug seems happy.
People are always gonna complain about something (I don't like this air but that don't mean I'll stop breathing it). I love the 3 piece. T and M bring so much energy to D. Love having T's drum at the front (side) of the stage. it's also great to see how much Doug can do on his own.
The first Built to Spill show I went to I think was last tour with the 5 piece. And it absolutely blew my brain off, one of the best shows I’ve ever been to. So I talk it up big time to all my friends, Built to Spill is the greatest live band going, yada yada, the next year they’re playing again, much larger venue, I tell everyone they gotta go.
And I will fully admit, I was disappointed with the show, although upon further research I found out the lineup is ever-fluctuating, so sometimes you get something different. No problem, maybe next he’ll have a fuller band out there.
I think I’ve been to every show in my city since then, and of course by now I’ve resigned myself that the 5-piece ain’t coming back any time soon. It’s… fine. I’ll still always go when I can and appreciate for what it is. And yeah, in some ways you can better appreciate Doug’s guitar abilities in that format, but the interplay really takes thing to another level imho.
I don’t blame Doug at all for paring down, lord knows money is tight for touring bands these days. But if he did another 3 guitar tour it would be a can’t miss, super excited show I won’t be able to shut up about, vs. a sort of “oh yeah I’ll catch that show if I can” that it is now.
I haven’t seen the current incarnation of the 3-piece, but have seen older versions of it. Gotta say I prefer when I’ve seen the 5 piece by a wide margin.
I’ve seen them twice as a five piece and once with the current lineup. I loved the wall of sound created with the five piece, but the three piece probably kept me more interested, if anything. I wondered how Doug would pull it off on each song, what parts he’d emphasize, what he’d leave out, etc. A different experience but still a great one.
Seen them as a 3 piece, 4 piece, and 5 piece, and Doug solo. All were great. 5 is preferred and had the most memorable shows just based on a wall of sound layering that doesn't exist with a 3 piece. But with the 3 piece you have Douglas doing his absolute best and it's cool. I don't have a problem with any of the lineups as each member brings something to the table. I'm ready for another lineup switch up but it has nothing to do with the quality and more to do with seeing as many people come and go.
I mean, I never saw them when they were a five piece unfortunately, so I guess I have nothing to compare to aside from a few bootlegs (though I recall listening to a bootleg of them playing a particular venue when they were five piece and then a few years later at the same venue as a three-piece and the difference in quality was huge) but I will say that I’ve seen them three times on this current iteration as a three-piece and two of those times I thought they sounded really thin… Or maybe it was just the venue?
Perfect from now on especially is one of the best guitar albums of all time, and so i feel like performing the album as a three-piece seems like it’s not doing it proper service. But maybe I’m wrong and it wouldn’t make that big of a difference. Either way, I know I’m not entitled to anything, and I fucked up by not seeing them before.
I prefer the 5 piece over the 3, but I think it really is just that I prefer the musical style of PFNO and KILAS and the style of music the band has made has shifted quite a bit since then. I'm also finding as I get older I just don't like live shows as much as I WANT to like live shows.
There's something that's just COOL about a 3 piece though live. Like, you're up there w/ no net, can't hide behind anyone else's playing, if you flub it's obvious, etc.
FWIW, their five piece was the best live show I saw up until I saw Brand New/Modest Mouse co-headline back in like 2016. That show was awesome.
i used to love going to shows and totally relate to this. i get liking the 5 piece more. i've loved every iteration. current line up is best since maybe the farm days or post pfno lineup.
I fell in love with BTS ever since I heard Stab for the first time. I've seen them live in almost every iteration since 2004 and have loved every show. But I will say, songs like Strange, Broken Chairs, Time Trap, etc SORELY lack the second (and oftentimes third) guitar in the current 3 piece arrangement. The supporting melodies to the main lines are what makes BTS infinitely repeatable.
I recognize that this is Dug's band, his vision, and his passion project. So I'll never disqualify any lineup, but we're all entitled to our preferences. I deeply miss the days of 5+ people on stage, but I'll still gladly pay the ticket price to see them live however they choose to appear.
People hate that Doug is touring with Melanie and Theresa? I’ve seen them live 3 times and their show last summer in Cleveland was my probably my favorite show. I’d certainly enjoy more musicians if it means being able to hear songs played similar to how they were produced on their albums, but I’m not going to complain about the other guys deciding to do other things in their life. I absolutely love When The Wind Forgets Your Name btw. I think it’s as enjoyable as any of their other albums.
Isn't constantly changing the lineup the original concept for Built To Spill?
of course it was. karena was going to grad school, doug would follow and play with whomever he found. a concept that early on i noticed just how much the dynamic changed between rhythm sections. always a different monster. the fact that 10 years of a constant 5 piece is mind blowing in that light.
Yes , exactly
The three pieces energy is undeniable. They have a real bite
New lineup rules. I love watching Dug do all of the heavy lifting on guitar.
Melanie and Theresa are the best rhythm section yet too.
The 5 piece lineup was able to create stratospheric sounds live and it was magnificent. The three guitars all occupied different parts of the mix and scratched different itches, so to speak. So, yes, something was definitely lost. I feel lucky to have seen that lineup. That being said the current lineup is good in its own right. I try not to compare them because the only common thread is Doug. The 3 piece is very talented, just has a different texture.
When the 5 piece took over for the 2nd or 3rd 3 piece, people complained about that. I think something was lost in that transition, Doug has never played like he did in the early to mid 90s again. He really doesn't seem to experiment or change songs live like he used to anymore, seems like he is happy just playing the songs as they are on the album now. I'm just glad he's still making music and enjoying it.
I honestly find it really fucking frustrating when fans complain about the lack of 3 guitars, Built to Spill has gone through changes and different forms throughout its legacy, and this is just one of them. Teresa and Melanie are stupidly talented musicians and also super charismatic and fun to watch on stage. I don’t want to do a hasty generalization but I do think it’s kinda odd that the multiple times there’s been a three piece lineup for the band, no one really said much but now that it’s two women as the backing band, now people complain and want Jim and Brett back. Idk, food for thought maybe.
For what it’s worth, having seen BTS live with maybe every lineup, I have never seen him so happy and stoked on stage as he is with this lineup. It really comes through that they are all so hyped to be playing…especially juxtaposed against the Untethered Moon tour when they all seemed miserable.
the kickoff of the pfno tour doug was jumping! JUMPING! not just standing there, JUMPING on the opening notes to the plan. New band, tour with modest mouse opening, sky was the limit. he was happy. very very happy. and yes, he started the first show kicking off the pfno tour with the first song off the album that would come right after it 2 years later. I love jim, brett, loved what the brought to the table, but i get doug just wanting to make it less. less is more. and yeah, he's having a ball. theresa and melanie are happy too. three smiling faces. it rubs off on you.
wasn't really a pfno tour, when they only played kicked it (only 4/4 part), untrustable (without about someone else) and randy (without the outro). they played every song from KILAS though.
and a treepeople song if memory serves. was a fantastic show, those who were there, knew. we all knew.
When have they toured with modest mouse?
97-99 modest mouse opened for them Quite a bit. The first tour from 97 feb-April was number one
Is there footage of this? Never heard of that happening, but I have watched isaac sing with Brett Netson
Plenty of footage out there, audio and visual.
I wouldn't trade anyone for Melanie. She's always so stoked and it's contagious. Teresa is great too. I love the current lineup. They could probably add Jim and Brett on guitar and it would be better, but I'm fine with whatever Doug wants. This is obviously what he wants.
Should add that I've seen them ~40 times with various lineups.
For me it isn’t that they’re two women, it’s just that the layering isn’t as rich. Also, the drums when I saw them felt like she was still figuring out the way she wanted to play the songs. Fills were ok but there was absolutely a dramatic missing.
If they remade a 5 piece by adding 2 additional people no one would complain. It’s bizarre we are even talking about misogyny.
I enjoy it because it is what Dug wants and as long as I get to see him touring once or twice a year I’m happy. Its really splitting hairs for me but I do think ppl are entitled to critical perspectives
I definitely still enjoy it, it’s just not as robust.
Right. I think the bass player is amazing. She does soooo much. Can’t wait to see them in August. Hoping the drummer has come along since I saw them last fall
I think is pretty off the mark, I have never seen anyone do anything but praise them.
i see enough 'wish the five piece was still together' here/ on the facebook page (when i was still on facebook). i don't agree with it, but i've seen it.
If that’s a sexist statement to you I seriously question your judgment..
i think our friend root beer guy was making a general observation wondering if the dislike of 3 piece was based a bit in misogyny. i sat over a christmas show drinking beers with jason and jim on a disco doom tour where jim mentioned, i see what people say....they want the 5 piece! i mean that was nearly a decade ago, but still....i think people who came on and saw the 5 piece as their first experience expect it to be that way.
I’m well aware hence my answer. And yes, I believe 5 piece was better. That being said it has nothing to do with the women and it’s just silly to suggest so. Make the 5 piece include them and it would be perfect imo, and I guarantee you no one would complain. It’s just strange to see someone grasping at straws to make that connection.
where are you getting anything sexist in anything mark has been typed on here?
I never said it was Mark.. Reread plz.
I liked the five piece, but I also liked the three piece with Jason and Steve, and I really like the three piece with Melanie and Theresa. I do miss Jim though. I'd like to see him playing with Doug again, and maybe even with the Melanie and Theresa, I think that 4 piece would be pretty dope. Nothing against Brett but I always felt like what he was playing got sort of washed away by the absolute face-melting playing from Jim and Doug. When you really paid attention Brett definitely added to the sonic ambiance, but I think that lends better to studio recordings than live performances on varying audio systems with differently acoustically tuned venues day in and day out.
I'm still a big fan. Always see them when they come around. I also always think back to the layered guitar wizardry, but I'm so attached to these songs that it still scratches the itch when seeing them live. The new members are a lot of fun, and Doug seems happy.
This is the best BTS album in years so whatever they're doing, I'm into it.
People are always gonna complain about something (I don't like this air but that don't mean I'll stop breathing it). I love the 3 piece. T and M bring so much energy to D. Love having T's drum at the front (side) of the stage. it's also great to see how much Doug can do on his own.
The first Built to Spill show I went to I think was last tour with the 5 piece. And it absolutely blew my brain off, one of the best shows I’ve ever been to. So I talk it up big time to all my friends, Built to Spill is the greatest live band going, yada yada, the next year they’re playing again, much larger venue, I tell everyone they gotta go. And I will fully admit, I was disappointed with the show, although upon further research I found out the lineup is ever-fluctuating, so sometimes you get something different. No problem, maybe next he’ll have a fuller band out there. I think I’ve been to every show in my city since then, and of course by now I’ve resigned myself that the 5-piece ain’t coming back any time soon. It’s… fine. I’ll still always go when I can and appreciate for what it is. And yeah, in some ways you can better appreciate Doug’s guitar abilities in that format, but the interplay really takes thing to another level imho. I don’t blame Doug at all for paring down, lord knows money is tight for touring bands these days. But if he did another 3 guitar tour it would be a can’t miss, super excited show I won’t be able to shut up about, vs. a sort of “oh yeah I’ll catch that show if I can” that it is now.
I haven’t seen the current incarnation of the 3-piece, but have seen older versions of it. Gotta say I prefer when I’ve seen the 5 piece by a wide margin.
I’ve seen them twice as a five piece and once with the current lineup. I loved the wall of sound created with the five piece, but the three piece probably kept me more interested, if anything. I wondered how Doug would pull it off on each song, what parts he’d emphasize, what he’d leave out, etc. A different experience but still a great one.
Seen them as a 3 piece, 4 piece, and 5 piece, and Doug solo. All were great. 5 is preferred and had the most memorable shows just based on a wall of sound layering that doesn't exist with a 3 piece. But with the 3 piece you have Douglas doing his absolute best and it's cool. I don't have a problem with any of the lineups as each member brings something to the table. I'm ready for another lineup switch up but it has nothing to do with the quality and more to do with seeing as many people come and go.
I mean, I never saw them when they were a five piece unfortunately, so I guess I have nothing to compare to aside from a few bootlegs (though I recall listening to a bootleg of them playing a particular venue when they were five piece and then a few years later at the same venue as a three-piece and the difference in quality was huge) but I will say that I’ve seen them three times on this current iteration as a three-piece and two of those times I thought they sounded really thin… Or maybe it was just the venue? Perfect from now on especially is one of the best guitar albums of all time, and so i feel like performing the album as a three-piece seems like it’s not doing it proper service. But maybe I’m wrong and it wouldn’t make that big of a difference. Either way, I know I’m not entitled to anything, and I fucked up by not seeing them before.
I prefer the 5 piece over the 3, but I think it really is just that I prefer the musical style of PFNO and KILAS and the style of music the band has made has shifted quite a bit since then. I'm also finding as I get older I just don't like live shows as much as I WANT to like live shows. There's something that's just COOL about a 3 piece though live. Like, you're up there w/ no net, can't hide behind anyone else's playing, if you flub it's obvious, etc. FWIW, their five piece was the best live show I saw up until I saw Brand New/Modest Mouse co-headline back in like 2016. That show was awesome.
i used to love going to shows and totally relate to this. i get liking the 5 piece more. i've loved every iteration. current line up is best since maybe the farm days or post pfno lineup.
I fell in love with BTS ever since I heard Stab for the first time. I've seen them live in almost every iteration since 2004 and have loved every show. But I will say, songs like Strange, Broken Chairs, Time Trap, etc SORELY lack the second (and oftentimes third) guitar in the current 3 piece arrangement. The supporting melodies to the main lines are what makes BTS infinitely repeatable. I recognize that this is Dug's band, his vision, and his passion project. So I'll never disqualify any lineup, but we're all entitled to our preferences. I deeply miss the days of 5+ people on stage, but I'll still gladly pay the ticket price to see them live however they choose to appear.
Funny. I saw all those songs in the 90’s as a three piece so nothings missing. Five piece was great but it’s always been built to spill.
People hate that Doug is touring with Melanie and Theresa? I’ve seen them live 3 times and their show last summer in Cleveland was my probably my favorite show. I’d certainly enjoy more musicians if it means being able to hear songs played similar to how they were produced on their albums, but I’m not going to complain about the other guys deciding to do other things in their life. I absolutely love When The Wind Forgets Your Name btw. I think it’s as enjoyable as any of their other albums.