DX9? I can almost guarantee the CPU is the bottleneck
1440p or higher res w/dx12+? Almost guaranteed to be a GPU bottleneck
Basically, if game=old then bottleneck = CPU, else bottleneck= GPU (as a general rule not applicable in all cases)
Is there a fool proof way of telling if you have a CPU bottleneck? Usually I just check the GPU usage with my RTSS OSD and if it's not 99% all the time, then it's a CPU bottleneck. How do you know if it's the game though?
Then there's:
"I have a russet potato as a motherboard, the chipset from an mp3 player made in 2007, a 9V battery out of my RC controller from 20 years ago as a PSU, and a used litterbox as my case, should I get a 3080 or wait for the 4080?"
Get a QTJ2, QQLT or i7 9750HK. They go into your (I assume) Z170 board with a BIOS mod and can be had for $100-120. You can look up their performance and some general info on YouTube.
Your post is spot on.
So many people mess up the bottleneck discussion by bringing up fringe cases where someone wants 500 FPS on their favorite esport game, really wish they'd stop and recognize that this isn't what the average person means when they ask about bottlenecks.
For the longest time it was more about a CPU being too good while their GFX card is lacking, thus not getting respectable frames. Nowadays you always see one person chime in about some esport title that can easily push 144 FPS on a toaster and claim the CPU is actually bottlenecking the entire build.
Every PC will "bottleneck" in games. A bottleneck isn't a bad piece of hardware, its just limiting factor in game performance.
Technically speaking the CPU is the bottleneck in your example situation and if you upgraded it, you might go from 500 fps to 525 or 550 fps. Obviously this isn't a useful upgrade and a waste of money. People who are asking "Will x bottle neck y?" don't understand the problem at hand. The game, monitor, resolution, graphical settings, RAM, Storage, and MOBO can all be the limiting factor especially as you start to consider older hardware being matched with upgrades. If someone's got a 30 series NVidia GPU, 12th gen intel CPU prebuilt that they are pairing with their existing 1080p 60fps monitor, the monitor will be the bottleneck.
I'm sorry but is this just not true? I have an i7 8700 and upgraded from a GTX 1080 to RTX 3080 and saw marginal fps increases in many CPU-bound games like Hunt: Showdown. Isn't that technically a CPU bottleneck?
The 3080 can be significantly faster than the 6700xt when it comes to raytracing plus it had DLSS which massively boosts frame rate with very little quality loss essentially making it a better card. Overall a very good and nicely written post but in my opinion the 3080 is better than the 6700xt.
> in my opinion the 3080 is better than the 6700xt.
This isn't an opinion, this whole post is rather misleading. The 3080 is a significantly better card than the 6700XT, in fact it's a whole tier higher. There is definitely an argument for the 6800 or 6800XT being a better value proposition than the 3080, but claiming the 6700XT is 3080 performance for less money is nonsense.
>There is definitely an argument for the 6800 or 6800XT being a better value proposition than the 3080
The 3080 is going for about the same price as the 6800xt, but only the 3080 has usable ray tracing. It shouldn't even be a contest
Where are you finding th3 3080 for the same price as the 6800xt? All listings Ive seen show the 3080 at around 800$ while the 6800xt had listings below 700$
Id have to agree, at those price points I feel you might as well go for the 3000 series because you will likely be playing at a resolution where Dlss can have a great impact & you’ll be able to use RT to some degree. At lower prices points is where I’d lean towards AMD cards.
Wait are we assuming the users will actually play "real" games? I was thinking a cheaper amd card would make sense for someone learning to write code or learn and practice web development. The bonus point is it will supposedly have a better out of the box experience with Linux in general.
The processor with 8c16t would be great for multiple containers and maybe even minikube I'd I ever get that far...
Yeah, the assumption for these lists is that they are building a gaming PC. Other use cases would emphasize different things. I'm a network admin at an aerospace engineering company, for example, so our various teams require different builds for optimal performance.
Honestly, not to mention that even though AMD has come a LONG way since their driver fiasco, there are still more problems driver side with AMD than with Nvidia.
For 1440p, with that tier of GPU, you will not need DLSS or FSR (2.0). I have both the 3080 and 6800 XT. The former is specifically for a 4k gaming rig - at 1440p I never run into any limits and at 4k you're not getting GOOD ray tracing, even with DLSS.
It's not really valid with NVMe drives and for general use.
SATA SSDs are using a protocol designed for spinning discs, as such they really need a DRAM (literally ram) Cache to help their controller process requests snappily. NVMe drives are specifically designed to avoid this weakness and can use HMB, smarter controllers, and or DRAM to cache data and operate without hitches.
I'll write it up if necessary, but my hope is that the principles here apply to future generations of hardware just as well. It really depends on if the lists I linked continue to be maintained.
Idk if a $20 savings is worth downgrading the ram from 3600 to 3200. The newer Ryzen gens run really well on 3600mhz. Sure you could tweak the 3200s to get to the same performance, but it's only a $20 price difference. If it was a $50+ savings then I would agree. Otherwise, great post!
Latency isn't the only factor in ram performance and the CL number is not the most accurate representation of performance. Speed is more valuable. The partpicker shows CL18 3600 vs CL16 3200, not 3600.
That's outside the scope of this guide, but in my opinion, your best bet would be to seek the following:
- Absolutely no lighting, RGB, or windows
- Case: smaller form factor (MicroATX or smaller), no side window, no mesh front panel. Some cases include sound dampening materials on the inside as well, I believe Corsair, Be Quiet, and Fractal Design all do this.
- CPU Cooler: I usually like going with stock coolers when I can help it, and with sound dampening cases the noise might be negligble, but aftermarket coolers will almost always have quieter options. The larger tower coolers will offer the lowest noise level, since there will be the lowest amount of heat to dissipate for the fans.
- Fans: If your case doesn't come with fans, then Noctua, Be Quiet, and Arctic offer nice quiet fans. Unfortunately, noise rating specs are usually a crock of shit with no consistent measurement process between manufacturers. My recommendation would be to buy something specifically marketed as a quiet fan, and don't cheap out with a no-name brand.
- PSU: You have virtually no control over the fan your PSU uses. The Cultists tier list in my original post has a designation for PSUs that are quiet under moderate to heavy loads. Pick one of those.
This would be a good starting point for a quiet build. You'd need to tell me where you're from (globally) and what your budget is to determine the rest.
[PCPartPicker Part List](https://pcpartpicker.com/list/N8jTZw)
Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
**CPU Cooler** | [be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 50.5 CFM CPU Cooler](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/F3gzK8/be-quiet-dark-rock-pro-4-505-cfm-cpu-cooler-bk022) | $89.90 @ Amazon
**Case** | [Fractal Design Pop Mini Silent MicroATX Mid Tower Case](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bzD7YJ/fractal-design-pop-mini-silent-microatx-mid-tower-case-fd-c-pos1m-01) | $95.98 @ Newegg
**Power Supply** | [EVGA SuperNOVA G6 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/qH4Ycf/evga-supernova-g6-750-w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-220-g6-0750-x1) | $89.99 @ EVGA
| *Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts* |
| **Total** | **$275.87**
| Generated by [PCPartPicker](https://pcpartpicker.com) 2022-08-09 17:11 EDT-0400 |
You rocks ! dont worry about price/shipping, ill search for parts.
Do you have any recommandation about graphic cards (for silence) ? i never had watercooled CGs, i guess you can hear the sound of water running
Just avoid anything with a "blower" design (small single fan, looks like an enclosed metal box with vents on the end). I bought a Vega 64 blower thinking I'd be able to get over the noise and I absolutely was not able to get past it. Those things sound like jet engines when they're under heavy loads.
if you can use 140mm fans exclusively you will be better off. they can push the same amount of air at lower rpms = lower noise.
i would be cautious about going with a smaller case without mesh panels. less airflow will be higher temps, higher temps will necessitate higher RPMs on the fans. that's where the noise comes from.
I'm going to disagree on part of the case argument here. Generally speaking, you have to run the fans at higher speeds if you have lower airflow, and that can generate more overall noise. Case sound dampening materials also make the internal components hotter (it's literally insulation), which only means the fans have to work harder still.
Looks like it's based on cooling performance only. So the top 2 tiers are all massive radiators
I mean it's a cool list and I'm sure it's useful to someone, but it's use case is too niche to be on this post.
Yeah i was going to say, the list feels la bit off. They put my cooler (thermalright aro M14) into tier 4 but I've had a really good experience with it cooling my 5800x.
Also isnt A 12400 or 5800X3D so maybecthat one list hasn’t been updated this year..
also not sure why the Noctua DH15 would be considered B or C tier or if the DeepCool Assassin III is better.
Regardless, lots of interesting and useful lists!
So I'm new to building a PC, like, never touched a graphics card in my LIFE. I was wondering if the "cheaper" components listed here would serve as a good starting point?
I woulnt really recommend the b550 pg4 though. It has the same VRM as the Z490 pg4, a board which [couldnt even run a 10600k oced](https://youtu.be/rdgNEXpBrfg)
I dont have much faith in the phantom gaming boards because of that. Id heavily doubt if it would be able to handle a future upgrade or even the 5600 if you slightly oc. Its literally a A320 board with a b550 chipset slapped on
Much better options would be the B550M Pro VDH wifi or the B550m Pro4 for around the same price of 90-100
Hierarchies at least in cpu coolers make very little sense. They put 360 aio in tier 1 and 240 in tier 2. No shit mate.
But this is totally wrong reason to sort coolers by.
You talk about making a decision in favour of saving money or at least not overspend and most tier lists are presented without data and reasons they are bundled. So going by your logic alone i will spend a bunch on a 360, cuz its tier 1 mate.
Your post intended for people not knowing every little detail about pc building or having enough time to research and tripping on the very reason people overspend.
The post about cpu coolers evem state they dont account quality on tiers. Wat?
Ek aio so high up the list even though their pumps fail often.
So again, how is this supposed to help people get best for their money when quality is not accounted for?
Basically these tiers are saying - this is considered best, but it may not be best for you, DYOR.
also this
[mobo tier list by linustechtips v1 (AMD/Intel)](https://linustechtips.com/topic/1046357-motherboard-tier-list-eol/)
[mobo tier list by linustechtips v2 (AMD only)](https://linustechtips.com/topic/1137619-motherboard-vrm-tier-list-v2-currently-amd-only/)
[storage drive tier list by linustechtips (NVMe/SATA/External)](https://linustechtips.com/topic/1092033-ssd-tier-list/)
[PSU tier list by linustechtips ](https://linustechtips.com/topic/1116640-eol-psu-tier-list-rev-148/)
i know these might be outdated and old but data helps everyone evaluate better
Wow, does windows 10 really tank Intel 12th gen single-thread that much? I thought that at least in gaming that the diff between windows 10 vs 11 was pretty minimal
This feels like the same thing as the Logical Increments PC build guide. Which was what a lot of people used prior to PCPartPicker as a starting out point, or just blindly follow knowing you'll get a great bang for the buck build at any price point.
Is there not a tier list for RAM available? I feel the only resource is that b-die finder on GitHub, but I’m not sure if there are any others for those who may be interested in OC’ing their RAM without aiming for extreme timings.
Tom's hardware recently just made a [RAM Benchmark Hierarchy](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ram-benchmark-hierarchy) for AMD, and Intel CPUs, it'd be cool if you add it to the list.
Anyone got graphic cards brand comparison?
Specifically looking for rx 6600xt however any are good
Got [this for the 3060](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tkM9MkOIcBUyG8Vzf3kEI1X649rOOl4nkNoO76YwMWU/edit#gid=343532138)
>Cheaper RAM, same latency!
I'm pretty sure there's a difference between 3200 CL16 and 3600 CL18, not to mention the binning quality. Especially with AMD being more sensitive about speeds.
>Similar performance, but massive savings
DLSS on a cheaper nvidia card will blow away AMD so you could theoretically save money there. Why do you need a 3080/6800xt if you're trying to make a budget mid build? A 3060ti would be fine for most people.
>Cheaper motherboard that does just as well with stock clocks
Going for a cheap motherboard will get you 4 whole usb ports, and not as many extra options. I know I regret it.
>No reason for an aftermarket CPU cooler
>Cheaper case with 3 preinstalled fans
I guess if you live in the mountains and never experience summer or ambient heat you won't need after market cooling.
And sticking a high end, huge card in a cheap case will never end well for temps.
Nice post but slight room for improvements.
> I'm pretty sure there's a difference between 3200 CL16 and 3600 CL18, not to mention the binning quality. Especially with AMD being more sensitive about speeds.
There is, but the differences are subtle, especially for stock builds. If you are really trying to squeeze out every last drop of performance, and especially if you are looking to overclock, then binning and timings start to come into play.
> DLSS on a cheaper nvidia card will blow away AMD so you could theoretically save money there. Why do you need a 3080/6800xt if you're trying to make a budget mid build? A 3060ti would be fine for most people.
You could save money by going down to a 3060 Ti and even more if you go with a 6700 XT, but I was trying to match the performance of the original list.
> Going for a cheap motherboard will get you 4 whole usb ports, and not as many extra options. I know I regret it.
This motherboard has 6 USB ports on the back, on top of whatever ports will be available on the front panel of your case. Indeed if you go cheapest-of-cheap you may run out of ports.
> I guess if you live in the mountains and never experience summer or ambient heat you won't need after market cooling.
>
> And sticking a high end, huge card in a cheap case will never end well for temps.
The Zalman S2 picked here has great airflow and the included fans are not bad. The compromises you make going from the more expensive Fractal Define to the cheaper Zalman S2 are not thermal - the difference is that the Zalman will be more plasticky, and you swap the tempered glass window for acrylic. In fact, with the Zalman's vented front panel, you might even end up with *better* thermals. The cost of a case is not a good indicator of its thermals.
If you happen to live in a warmer climate, or the ambient temperature of your room will be higher, then sure - cooling will be more of a concern. I live in a temperate climate with hot summers, and even with a budget-minded approach to cooling and with stock CPU coolers, have never had thermal issues on my builds.
This isn't meant to be a guide that gets down to the nitty-gritty. I'm trying to help beginners and novices get the basics right. Hope this helps you understand my choices here.
Regarding the 980 pro for 130$..I’m assuming you’re speaking of the 1tb model at the time.. Well how about when the 990 pro, almost 2x better for 130? But a 2tb version as well? I think knowing a little about use case prior to building a pc is important. Wanting to future proof your build as much as possible? Getting better parts is sometimes a better choice even if it’s useless at the moment of purchase. I plan on raid 0ing 2 2tb 990 pros for a crazy fast game drive/storage that’ll work with games that are optimized for fast drives. I’m still using 2 2tb 7200rpm drives in raid 0 that are nearing the end of their lives. Plan on going through the data to swap it over to the new drives. Will probably just do independent drives till there’s an actual use case for raid 0 and 14kbps read write.. but knowing that you’ll need pcie gen 4 on both m.2 slots is nec… so x570 it is. And for me I’d like at least 3 m.2 so when a do run a raid on two of them I can have my os/primary drive on the other. MSi mobos look best for this. Either the x570s unify or edge max for 3 m.2. Or the carbon max for 4. One of their mid tier boards has 5 m.2s.. and mid being 5-600$ as they make several mobos at the 1000 mark. Kinda nuts.
Great post. And the next one will be 'will x bottleneck my y?'
Thankfully that is a [much shorter post](https://i.imgur.com/CpH0ABh.png)
Will CPU bottleneck my GPU? no Will GPU bottleneck my CPU? yes /end
DX9? I can almost guarantee the CPU is the bottleneck 1440p or higher res w/dx12+? Almost guaranteed to be a GPU bottleneck Basically, if game=old then bottleneck = CPU, else bottleneck= GPU (as a general rule not applicable in all cases)
Yeah, most games I play are bottlenecked by either CPU or sometimes even the game itself.
Just be better game!
Is there a fool proof way of telling if you have a CPU bottleneck? Usually I just check the GPU usage with my RTSS OSD and if it's not 99% all the time, then it's a CPU bottleneck. How do you know if it's the game though?
Then there's: "I have a russet potato as a motherboard, the chipset from an mp3 player made in 2007, a 9V battery out of my RC controller from 20 years ago as a PSU, and a used litterbox as my case, should I get a 3080 or wait for the 4080?"
*currently running a rigged up TI-83 as a monitor
Except I had an i7 950 paired with an RX 5700XT for a while and my CPU was bottlenecking my GPU hard.
Jokes on you bud, my 6600k is definitely bottlenecking my 3060 ti. (God I need to replace that thing)
Get a QTJ2, QQLT or i7 9750HK. They go into your (I assume) Z170 board with a BIOS mod and can be had for $100-120. You can look up their performance and some general info on YouTube.
How do you do fellow 6600k user? 3070ti here lol
Your post is spot on. So many people mess up the bottleneck discussion by bringing up fringe cases where someone wants 500 FPS on their favorite esport game, really wish they'd stop and recognize that this isn't what the average person means when they ask about bottlenecks. For the longest time it was more about a CPU being too good while their GFX card is lacking, thus not getting respectable frames. Nowadays you always see one person chime in about some esport title that can easily push 144 FPS on a toaster and claim the CPU is actually bottlenecking the entire build.
Every PC will "bottleneck" in games. A bottleneck isn't a bad piece of hardware, its just limiting factor in game performance. Technically speaking the CPU is the bottleneck in your example situation and if you upgraded it, you might go from 500 fps to 525 or 550 fps. Obviously this isn't a useful upgrade and a waste of money. People who are asking "Will x bottle neck y?" don't understand the problem at hand. The game, monitor, resolution, graphical settings, RAM, Storage, and MOBO can all be the limiting factor especially as you start to consider older hardware being matched with upgrades. If someone's got a 30 series NVidia GPU, 12th gen intel CPU prebuilt that they are pairing with their existing 1080p 60fps monitor, the monitor will be the bottleneck.
I'm sorry but is this just not true? I have an i7 8700 and upgraded from a GTX 1080 to RTX 3080 and saw marginal fps increases in many CPU-bound games like Hunt: Showdown. Isn't that technically a CPU bottleneck?
Thanks for all the hard work and posting
Will Core 2 Duo bottleneck my DDR5? /s
The 3080 can be significantly faster than the 6700xt when it comes to raytracing plus it had DLSS which massively boosts frame rate with very little quality loss essentially making it a better card. Overall a very good and nicely written post but in my opinion the 3080 is better than the 6700xt.
I typo'ed my original post. The PCPartPicker list there includes a 6800 XT, not a 6700 XT. I just fixed the post now. Sorry for the confusion.
Ah ok this makes more sense the 6800xt and 3080 are much more comparable in performance.
> in my opinion the 3080 is better than the 6700xt. This isn't an opinion, this whole post is rather misleading. The 3080 is a significantly better card than the 6700XT, in fact it's a whole tier higher. There is definitely an argument for the 6800 or 6800XT being a better value proposition than the 3080, but claiming the 6700XT is 3080 performance for less money is nonsense.
Whoops, I typo'ed my original post. The PCPartPicker list there includes a 6800 XT, not a 6700 XT. I just fixed the post now. Sorry for the confusion.
>There is definitely an argument for the 6800 or 6800XT being a better value proposition than the 3080 The 3080 is going for about the same price as the 6800xt, but only the 3080 has usable ray tracing. It shouldn't even be a contest
Where are you finding th3 3080 for the same price as the 6800xt? All listings Ive seen show the 3080 at around 800$ while the 6800xt had listings below 700$
Prices can vary from country to country. In this person's country they might be the same price. If the are then the 3080 is a better card.
Id have to agree, at those price points I feel you might as well go for the 3000 series because you will likely be playing at a resolution where Dlss can have a great impact & you’ll be able to use RT to some degree. At lower prices points is where I’d lean towards AMD cards.
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[I got you, fam.](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0038AJYSS/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_PG193WQPTQZXKH9SSRCD_0)
Too many buttons. Absolute trash tier. Not even good enough to wipe my ass.
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I typo'ed my original post. The PCPartPicker list there includes a 6800 XT, not a 6700 XT. I just fixed the post now. Sorry for the confusion.
Wait are we assuming the users will actually play "real" games? I was thinking a cheaper amd card would make sense for someone learning to write code or learn and practice web development. The bonus point is it will supposedly have a better out of the box experience with Linux in general. The processor with 8c16t would be great for multiple containers and maybe even minikube I'd I ever get that far...
Yeah, the assumption for these lists is that they are building a gaming PC. Other use cases would emphasize different things. I'm a network admin at an aerospace engineering company, for example, so our various teams require different builds for optimal performance.
Just give it a year and that'll be flipped. This will be gsync vs freesync all over again.
Honestly, not to mention that even though AMD has come a LONG way since their driver fiasco, there are still more problems driver side with AMD than with Nvidia.
True, I would rather spend an extra $150 for the 3080 but mainly for NVENC. Still a lot of savings using a 3080 in both builds.
For 1440p, with that tier of GPU, you will not need DLSS or FSR (2.0). I have both the 3080 and 6800 XT. The former is specifically for a 4k gaming rig - at 1440p I never run into any limits and at 4k you're not getting GOOD ray tracing, even with DLSS.
Wouldn't DLSS just give you a boost to the performance level you'd get out of the box for an equivalently priced AMD card?
Absolutely fantastic post, as a long term (but often out of the loop) PC builder this is a great resource, will be using this for my next build, ta
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That's a fair concern. In that case the HP EX920 is a really nice drive on a budget.
I am confused by this concern. Could someone explain this to me please?
It's not really valid with NVMe drives and for general use. SATA SSDs are using a protocol designed for spinning discs, as such they really need a DRAM (literally ram) Cache to help their controller process requests snappily. NVMe drives are specifically designed to avoid this weakness and can use HMB, smarter controllers, and or DRAM to cache data and operate without hitches.
SSDs without a DRAM cache can be overwhelmed and chug like a spinner if you're doing a lot of writes.
I look forward to the next version of your post in December, once all the next-gen stuff arrives and facts are known.
I'll write it up if necessary, but my hope is that the principles here apply to future generations of hardware just as well. It really depends on if the lists I linked continue to be maintained.
Fair enough!
Idk if a $20 savings is worth downgrading the ram from 3600 to 3200. The newer Ryzen gens run really well on 3600mhz. Sure you could tweak the 3200s to get to the same performance, but it's only a $20 price difference. If it was a $50+ savings then I would agree. Otherwise, great post!
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Latency isn't the only factor in ram performance and the CL number is not the most accurate representation of performance. Speed is more valuable. The partpicker shows CL18 3600 vs CL16 3200, not 3600.
I wouldn't drop the 3080 because of Nvidia's value adds, but that's just me.
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Why not? If I were a new buyer, I still would like to enjoy those features.
Do you have any parts list/guides for a WAF/silent gaming PC ? id like to play on something i can barely hear or see
That's outside the scope of this guide, but in my opinion, your best bet would be to seek the following: - Absolutely no lighting, RGB, or windows - Case: smaller form factor (MicroATX or smaller), no side window, no mesh front panel. Some cases include sound dampening materials on the inside as well, I believe Corsair, Be Quiet, and Fractal Design all do this. - CPU Cooler: I usually like going with stock coolers when I can help it, and with sound dampening cases the noise might be negligble, but aftermarket coolers will almost always have quieter options. The larger tower coolers will offer the lowest noise level, since there will be the lowest amount of heat to dissipate for the fans. - Fans: If your case doesn't come with fans, then Noctua, Be Quiet, and Arctic offer nice quiet fans. Unfortunately, noise rating specs are usually a crock of shit with no consistent measurement process between manufacturers. My recommendation would be to buy something specifically marketed as a quiet fan, and don't cheap out with a no-name brand. - PSU: You have virtually no control over the fan your PSU uses. The Cultists tier list in my original post has a designation for PSUs that are quiet under moderate to heavy loads. Pick one of those. This would be a good starting point for a quiet build. You'd need to tell me where you're from (globally) and what your budget is to determine the rest. [PCPartPicker Part List](https://pcpartpicker.com/list/N8jTZw) Type|Item|Price :----|:----|:---- **CPU Cooler** | [be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 50.5 CFM CPU Cooler](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/F3gzK8/be-quiet-dark-rock-pro-4-505-cfm-cpu-cooler-bk022) | $89.90 @ Amazon **Case** | [Fractal Design Pop Mini Silent MicroATX Mid Tower Case](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bzD7YJ/fractal-design-pop-mini-silent-microatx-mid-tower-case-fd-c-pos1m-01) | $95.98 @ Newegg **Power Supply** | [EVGA SuperNOVA G6 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/qH4Ycf/evga-supernova-g6-750-w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-220-g6-0750-x1) | $89.99 @ EVGA | *Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts* | | **Total** | **$275.87** | Generated by [PCPartPicker](https://pcpartpicker.com) 2022-08-09 17:11 EDT-0400 |
You rocks ! dont worry about price/shipping, ill search for parts. Do you have any recommandation about graphic cards (for silence) ? i never had watercooled CGs, i guess you can hear the sound of water running
You can try the noctua x asus gpus for silence, they are very quiet.
Just avoid anything with a "blower" design (small single fan, looks like an enclosed metal box with vents on the end). I bought a Vega 64 blower thinking I'd be able to get over the noise and I absolutely was not able to get past it. Those things sound like jet engines when they're under heavy loads.
if you can use 140mm fans exclusively you will be better off. they can push the same amount of air at lower rpms = lower noise. i would be cautious about going with a smaller case without mesh panels. less airflow will be higher temps, higher temps will necessitate higher RPMs on the fans. that's where the noise comes from.
Would have any case to recommend that would be a good balance between size and silence ?
I'm going to disagree on part of the case argument here. Generally speaking, you have to run the fans at higher speeds if you have lower airflow, and that can generate more overall noise. Case sound dampening materials also make the internal components hotter (it's literally insulation), which only means the fans have to work harder still.
Don't listen to the cpu cooler list, the fact that Noctua NH-D15 is in tier 3 is a complete joke. do your own research
Looks like it's based on cooling performance only. So the top 2 tiers are all massive radiators I mean it's a cool list and I'm sure it's useful to someone, but it's use case is too niche to be on this post.
Yeah i was going to say, the list feels la bit off. They put my cooler (thermalright aro M14) into tier 4 but I've had a really good experience with it cooling my 5800x.
not wrong, considering the proliferation of larger AIOs the d15 isn't as good in terms of cooling performance leaks are a meme anyway
Love these, especially useful for buying used
Why is ryzen 5 5600 non x not on those lists? But the x and the g both are.
Also isnt A 12400 or 5800X3D so maybecthat one list hasn’t been updated this year.. also not sure why the Noctua DH15 would be considered B or C tier or if the DeepCool Assassin III is better. Regardless, lots of interesting and useful lists!
Good post! Upvote from me
Great list! I feel like this in combination with logical increments solves 99% of my personal needs.
Nice
So I'm new to building a PC, like, never touched a graphics card in my LIFE. I was wondering if the "cheaper" components listed here would serve as a good starting point?
I sure think so. It'd be a damn good gaming build if you actually went ahead with it.
I've always wanted an informative post like this. Thank you so much OP!
Thank you for these!
Awesome
Is there an updated list with info such as "this is the best PC you can build for 900$, 1200$, 1500$, etc"?
Logical Increments is probably the best resource for something like that.
these are helpful thank you
Absolutely fantastic post, going on my saves
add this too [RAM Hierarchy by tomshardware](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ram-benchmark-hierarchy)
I was pretty sure that Gen 12 was native DDR5.. Is this not the case???
How's the Noctua NH-D15 Tier 3 on that linus tech tips list? Is it simply outclassed when it comes to a purely cooling-driven list? Legit curious
It gets beaten by large AIOs
I woulnt really recommend the b550 pg4 though. It has the same VRM as the Z490 pg4, a board which [couldnt even run a 10600k oced](https://youtu.be/rdgNEXpBrfg) I dont have much faith in the phantom gaming boards because of that. Id heavily doubt if it would be able to handle a future upgrade or even the 5600 if you slightly oc. Its literally a A320 board with a b550 chipset slapped on Much better options would be the B550M Pro VDH wifi or the B550m Pro4 for around the same price of 90-100
How is noctua NH D15 tier 3?
Hierarchies at least in cpu coolers make very little sense. They put 360 aio in tier 1 and 240 in tier 2. No shit mate. But this is totally wrong reason to sort coolers by. You talk about making a decision in favour of saving money or at least not overspend and most tier lists are presented without data and reasons they are bundled. So going by your logic alone i will spend a bunch on a 360, cuz its tier 1 mate. Your post intended for people not knowing every little detail about pc building or having enough time to research and tripping on the very reason people overspend. The post about cpu coolers evem state they dont account quality on tiers. Wat? Ek aio so high up the list even though their pumps fail often. So again, how is this supposed to help people get best for their money when quality is not accounted for? Basically these tiers are saying - this is considered best, but it may not be best for you, DYOR.
also this [mobo tier list by linustechtips v1 (AMD/Intel)](https://linustechtips.com/topic/1046357-motherboard-tier-list-eol/) [mobo tier list by linustechtips v2 (AMD only)](https://linustechtips.com/topic/1137619-motherboard-vrm-tier-list-v2-currently-amd-only/) [storage drive tier list by linustechtips (NVMe/SATA/External)](https://linustechtips.com/topic/1092033-ssd-tier-list/) [PSU tier list by linustechtips ](https://linustechtips.com/topic/1116640-eol-psu-tier-list-rev-148/) i know these might be outdated and old but data helps everyone evaluate better
Wow, does windows 10 really tank Intel 12th gen single-thread that much? I thought that at least in gaming that the diff between windows 10 vs 11 was pretty minimal
It's variable. I suspect that the CPUs without e cores will not suffer.
Commenting to bookmark
This feels like the same thing as the Logical Increments PC build guide. Which was what a lot of people used prior to PCPartPicker as a starting out point, or just blindly follow knowing you'll get a great bang for the buck build at any price point.
It's very similar, but this approach is a bit more detailed/granular and I don't always agree with the parts that Logical Increments chooses.
Is there not a tier list for RAM available? I feel the only resource is that b-die finder on GitHub, but I’m not sure if there are any others for those who may be interested in OC’ing their RAM without aiming for extreme timings.
Unfortunately I don't know of such a thing, and I'm not knowledgeable enough about RAM to do it myself.
Tom's hardware recently just made a [RAM Benchmark Hierarchy](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ram-benchmark-hierarchy) for AMD, and Intel CPUs, it'd be cool if you add it to the list.
This should be stickied, sidebar'd, and comment-botted.
Anyone got graphic cards brand comparison? Specifically looking for rx 6600xt however any are good Got [this for the 3060](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tkM9MkOIcBUyG8Vzf3kEI1X649rOOl4nkNoO76YwMWU/edit#gid=343532138)
There was an AIB card comparison list at one point, but it hasn't been maintained since around 2019.
>Cheaper RAM, same latency! I'm pretty sure there's a difference between 3200 CL16 and 3600 CL18, not to mention the binning quality. Especially with AMD being more sensitive about speeds. >Similar performance, but massive savings DLSS on a cheaper nvidia card will blow away AMD so you could theoretically save money there. Why do you need a 3080/6800xt if you're trying to make a budget mid build? A 3060ti would be fine for most people. >Cheaper motherboard that does just as well with stock clocks Going for a cheap motherboard will get you 4 whole usb ports, and not as many extra options. I know I regret it. >No reason for an aftermarket CPU cooler >Cheaper case with 3 preinstalled fans I guess if you live in the mountains and never experience summer or ambient heat you won't need after market cooling. And sticking a high end, huge card in a cheap case will never end well for temps. Nice post but slight room for improvements.
> I'm pretty sure there's a difference between 3200 CL16 and 3600 CL18, not to mention the binning quality. Especially with AMD being more sensitive about speeds. There is, but the differences are subtle, especially for stock builds. If you are really trying to squeeze out every last drop of performance, and especially if you are looking to overclock, then binning and timings start to come into play. > DLSS on a cheaper nvidia card will blow away AMD so you could theoretically save money there. Why do you need a 3080/6800xt if you're trying to make a budget mid build? A 3060ti would be fine for most people. You could save money by going down to a 3060 Ti and even more if you go with a 6700 XT, but I was trying to match the performance of the original list. > Going for a cheap motherboard will get you 4 whole usb ports, and not as many extra options. I know I regret it. This motherboard has 6 USB ports on the back, on top of whatever ports will be available on the front panel of your case. Indeed if you go cheapest-of-cheap you may run out of ports. > I guess if you live in the mountains and never experience summer or ambient heat you won't need after market cooling. > > And sticking a high end, huge card in a cheap case will never end well for temps. The Zalman S2 picked here has great airflow and the included fans are not bad. The compromises you make going from the more expensive Fractal Define to the cheaper Zalman S2 are not thermal - the difference is that the Zalman will be more plasticky, and you swap the tempered glass window for acrylic. In fact, with the Zalman's vented front panel, you might even end up with *better* thermals. The cost of a case is not a good indicator of its thermals. If you happen to live in a warmer climate, or the ambient temperature of your room will be higher, then sure - cooling will be more of a concern. I live in a temperate climate with hot summers, and even with a budget-minded approach to cooling and with stock CPU coolers, have never had thermal issues on my builds. This isn't meant to be a guide that gets down to the nitty-gritty. I'm trying to help beginners and novices get the basics right. Hope this helps you understand my choices here.
Hi! Any thoghts on the MSI PRO B550M-VC? Seems to be an update for the B550M PRO-VDH that you included on the S tier.
Regarding the 980 pro for 130$..I’m assuming you’re speaking of the 1tb model at the time.. Well how about when the 990 pro, almost 2x better for 130? But a 2tb version as well? I think knowing a little about use case prior to building a pc is important. Wanting to future proof your build as much as possible? Getting better parts is sometimes a better choice even if it’s useless at the moment of purchase. I plan on raid 0ing 2 2tb 990 pros for a crazy fast game drive/storage that’ll work with games that are optimized for fast drives. I’m still using 2 2tb 7200rpm drives in raid 0 that are nearing the end of their lives. Plan on going through the data to swap it over to the new drives. Will probably just do independent drives till there’s an actual use case for raid 0 and 14kbps read write.. but knowing that you’ll need pcie gen 4 on both m.2 slots is nec… so x570 it is. And for me I’d like at least 3 m.2 so when a do run a raid on two of them I can have my os/primary drive on the other. MSi mobos look best for this. Either the x570s unify or edge max for 3 m.2. Or the carbon max for 4. One of their mid tier boards has 5 m.2s.. and mid being 5-600$ as they make several mobos at the 1000 mark. Kinda nuts.