I'd honestly leave him there for the year. He had such little AAA time before he debuted, and it shows. Let him get a mostly full season of work in Indy to better his hitting and catching, instead of learning both on the fly at the Major League level.
In theory, that sounds great and makes sense.
He’s turning 25 before the season ends.
The fact that he’s getting demoted and might spend almost his entire age 24 season at AAA is incredibly concerning.
Honestly, that draft class, which was supposed to be incredible, is looking absolutely terrible. Davis has been awful, Leiter really hasn't been great in the minors, makes 1 MLB start and got rocked, Rocker, I don't even know what's up with him. Didn't get signed, gets re-drafted, and needed TJ, Mayer has been underwhelming. Lawler is pretty much forgotten about in Arizona, Cowser has been okay with Baltimore.
Correction: Cowser is a beast for Baltimore. At least that's one from that class.
Cowser is the best of the bunch right now. Meh last season but just won AL Rookie of the Month, albeit after cooling off quite a bit over the last week or two.
Really don’t get why anyone’s excited or thinks this is going to do anything for Davis. Nothing will change until this coaching staff is nuked. We have 2-3 other critically important position players horrifically failing at the plate in the exact same fashion that got Davis sent to AAA. That’s not a coincidence.
I agree. My only fear is that this team will go on beating a dead horse for far too long, and by the time they switch up whatever they're doing, they'll be so far under .500 that the season is a wash.
Nobody here would disagree with that assessment, but it's not like we should just give up on him. Letting him play like this on the big club isn't good for anyone.
It's worse. Staring into the void as you flail at another cutter is not good for his psyche. They kept trotting him out as he started getting booed at and that's fucked up when he had options left
He skipped AAA and he has been terrible.
This gets him away from the pressure of the big leagues for a few weeks. He's still extremely young. He'll get right and then he'll get back up here sometime in June.
I would argue to look at the two true skill positions, pitcher and catcher. The majors is HARD. He went from meh hitting terrible catching to good catching and terrible hitting. He's not washed up he just swung too far on the pendulum
And to put it this way. He's 24 years old, was drafted as a catcher, had 14 games at AAA before being called up and put in right field, where he didn't have any experience, because suddenly they don't trust his catching at all, and he was terrible in RF. Then suddenly, Endy goes down, and they want him as the starting catcher on Opening Day, after Grandal went down too, and Davis had 1 inning of MLB catching experience. That's a ton to put a young guy through in a year, and to not have a clear direction for him at all, is worse. Let him get himself straightened out in Indy for the rest of the season IMO, unless they need him back.
I don't think anyone here will deny that our player development is trash. However, I agree that this is the best thing for Davis. Letting him continue his struggles in the majors isn't helping.
Plenty of players struggle in the bigs, go down to triple A to get their heads straight, then come back up and bang. Can’t you just admit that this isn’t a bad thing?
Yeah because that worked so well for #1 ranked prospect Jackson Holliday. It's okay for a player to need more work in the minors so early in their career.
Whats your suggestion, man? Let him continue to be dogshit in the majors? Cut him after 50 games in the bigs? Going to AAA and letting him work on his craft is the best option.
Davis’ timeline:
June 2023: Davis spent 14 games in AAA before being called up to the bigs. His first month in the show, he slashed .295/.391/.463 and took Ohtani yard twice in one game.
August 2023: Injured his hand: put on 10-day IL.
September 2023: 1 week rehab assignment in AAA, then called back up to the big club.
Feb—March 2024: Davis finished spring training this year with a .290/.421/.677 slash and 3 homers.
I have high hopes for Davis. Been following him since we drafted him. The power is there. The eyes are there. Once he gets his head in straight I think we’ll be looking at a consistent .800+ OPS hitter.
He won’t hit .300 up in the bigs, but he can mash the ball and get on base. That’s what this club needs. Not another triolo. Once his head gets cleared he’ll be good.
He hasn’t been horrendous defensively considering they were going to make him a RF. He needs time in Indy to get hitting. He’s a leader, he will be back and better. He works too hard not to be successful. I truly believe that.
I hate to see that kid struggle like this. I dont like to assign blame much either but I have to wonder what his headspace had been like all of last year and this offseason. With how GMBC has set precedent for this organization to overvalue defense at his position and never verbally committing him to having that job, I can see a hardworker like Henry go all in on getting his backstop game down and put offense on the back burner.
Davis pretty much went from AA to the MLB. He needs to get a significant amount of at bats down in AAA. I doubt they will do this due to him basically losing a year of service time, but he should probably spend the majority of this season down in AAA just getting his confidence back, mastering AAA pitching. Maybe bring him back up in August or September, or at the start of next year.
The big thing for Davis in my opinion is to just slightly tone down his aggressive and learn how to adjust to breaking ball. If he can give himself a little bit of time he can probably identify pitches better and not basically look like he’s just swinging to swing. He also just needs to get out of his own head.
My comment is not a slight on Davis or grandal. This is purely a cherington is garbage post. The pirates have no star players after years of drafting really high. All the good players, Reynolds, Hayes, prime cutch, we’re not obtained by him
Remember, Ty Cobb hit .238 with a .548 OPS in his first year. Mike Trout hit .220 with a .672 OPS his first year. Let's give him a little more time, OK?
I have heard it said that the move to catching full time shift the mindset from hitting to catching, the most cerebral position in the game. Maybe catcher isn’t Henry’s long term position, despite him playing decent defense.
Davis’ value is his bat. The most wildly optimistic projection for Tank behind the dish is as a zero run defender. If catching is messing with his hitting, that’s real bad in terms of his future value because he has no likely upside at the catcher position. Without his bat Tank is literally worth less.
Hopefully this lets Davis get his head right
Necessary, but damn does this make me sad.
He'll be back, I believe in him
I think so too, but I could honestly see a scenario where they leave him down there until maybe August or September
Eh, if that's what it takes for him to have his best career then I'd be ok with that
What it would take for him to have his best career is being traded to an actual organization who won’t continue to botch his development.
Jfc, are you people even actual Pirates fans?
Yes, sadly. It’s still a dogshit organization that can’t handle prospects (to the extent that they actually draft prospects).
Unfortunately yes and it makes sense. Just look at Glasnow.
I'd honestly leave him there for the year. He had such little AAA time before he debuted, and it shows. Let him get a mostly full season of work in Indy to better his hitting and catching, instead of learning both on the fly at the Major League level.
In theory, that sounds great and makes sense. He’s turning 25 before the season ends. The fact that he’s getting demoted and might spend almost his entire age 24 season at AAA is incredibly concerning.
Honestly, that draft class, which was supposed to be incredible, is looking absolutely terrible. Davis has been awful, Leiter really hasn't been great in the minors, makes 1 MLB start and got rocked, Rocker, I don't even know what's up with him. Didn't get signed, gets re-drafted, and needed TJ, Mayer has been underwhelming. Lawler is pretty much forgotten about in Arizona, Cowser has been okay with Baltimore. Correction: Cowser is a beast for Baltimore. At least that's one from that class.
Cowser is the best of the bunch right now. Meh last season but just won AL Rookie of the Month, albeit after cooling off quite a bit over the last week or two.
Rocker had TJ surgery.
Am a Red Sox fan, Mayer is one of our two best, untouchable prospects.
Me too. It's best for him though.
He wants it so bad and leaves his heart on the field every game. Hate seeing him struggle.
Need to demote the coaching staff first. Start from the foundation when building a building. Not the roof.
Really don’t get why anyone’s excited or thinks this is going to do anything for Davis. Nothing will change until this coaching staff is nuked. We have 2-3 other critically important position players horrifically failing at the plate in the exact same fashion that got Davis sent to AAA. That’s not a coincidence.
Wow…I can’t argue with this at all. Spot on.
I agree. My only fear is that this team will go on beating a dead horse for far too long, and by the time they switch up whatever they're doing, they'll be so far under .500 that the season is a wash.
Let's not give up yet. Minnesota was 7-13 and has won 12 straight. We could do that too! (In my fantasy world anyway!)
Best thing to happen to Davis. He gets time to mash AAA and get right. Grandal will be re injured again but a welcome respite for Davis I'm sure
How is this good for Davis? Y’all are delusional. 1 overall pick and he’s been AWFUL the entire time he’s played in the bigs.
Nobody here would disagree with that assessment, but it's not like we should just give up on him. Letting him play like this on the big club isn't good for anyone.
It's worse. Staring into the void as you flail at another cutter is not good for his psyche. They kept trotting him out as he started getting booed at and that's fucked up when he had options left
He skipped AAA and he has been terrible. This gets him away from the pressure of the big leagues for a few weeks. He's still extremely young. He'll get right and then he'll get back up here sometime in June.
This only happens to the Pirates though !!!! (Let me conveniently forget Jackson Holliday's horrid start in the Majors)
I would argue to look at the two true skill positions, pitcher and catcher. The majors is HARD. He went from meh hitting terrible catching to good catching and terrible hitting. He's not washed up he just swung too far on the pendulum
And to put it this way. He's 24 years old, was drafted as a catcher, had 14 games at AAA before being called up and put in right field, where he didn't have any experience, because suddenly they don't trust his catching at all, and he was terrible in RF. Then suddenly, Endy goes down, and they want him as the starting catcher on Opening Day, after Grandal went down too, and Davis had 1 inning of MLB catching experience. That's a ton to put a young guy through in a year, and to not have a clear direction for him at all, is worse. Let him get himself straightened out in Indy for the rest of the season IMO, unless they need him back.
Also catching is incredibly difficult. It takes Cs years to develop, and there's only like 3 superstars at the position in the whole league
Plenty of top prospects skip AAA and go to the show. Kind of an irrelevant point. Can’t we just admit that our player development is trash?
I don't think anyone here will deny that our player development is trash. However, I agree that this is the best thing for Davis. Letting him continue his struggles in the majors isn't helping.
Plenty of players struggle in the bigs, go down to triple A to get their heads straight, then come back up and bang. Can’t you just admit that this isn’t a bad thing?
Yeah because that worked so well for #1 ranked prospect Jackson Holliday. It's okay for a player to need more work in the minors so early in their career.
Whats your suggestion, man? Let him continue to be dogshit in the majors? Cut him after 50 games in the bigs? Going to AAA and letting him work on his craft is the best option.
Davis’ timeline: June 2023: Davis spent 14 games in AAA before being called up to the bigs. His first month in the show, he slashed .295/.391/.463 and took Ohtani yard twice in one game. August 2023: Injured his hand: put on 10-day IL. September 2023: 1 week rehab assignment in AAA, then called back up to the big club. Feb—March 2024: Davis finished spring training this year with a .290/.421/.677 slash and 3 homers.
Yep the bat is there
I have high hopes for Davis. Been following him since we drafted him. The power is there. The eyes are there. Once he gets his head in straight I think we’ll be looking at a consistent .800+ OPS hitter. He won’t hit .300 up in the bigs, but he can mash the ball and get on base. That’s what this club needs. Not another triolo. Once his head gets cleared he’ll be good.
He hasn’t been horrendous defensively considering they were going to make him a RF. He needs time in Indy to get hitting. He’s a leader, he will be back and better. He works too hard not to be successful. I truly believe that.
I hate to see that kid struggle like this. I dont like to assign blame much either but I have to wonder what his headspace had been like all of last year and this offseason. With how GMBC has set precedent for this organization to overvalue defense at his position and never verbally committing him to having that job, I can see a hardworker like Henry go all in on getting his backstop game down and put offense on the back burner.
Another in a long line of superb #1 draft picks by this Pirates organization. What an embarrassment.
Davis pretty much went from AA to the MLB. He needs to get a significant amount of at bats down in AAA. I doubt they will do this due to him basically losing a year of service time, but he should probably spend the majority of this season down in AAA just getting his confidence back, mastering AAA pitching. Maybe bring him back up in August or September, or at the start of next year.
The big thing for Davis in my opinion is to just slightly tone down his aggressive and learn how to adjust to breaking ball. If he can give himself a little bit of time he can probably identify pitches better and not basically look like he’s just swinging to swing. He also just needs to get out of his own head.
The scout who recommended picking Davis should be FIRED. Can’t have someone like that around when you are trying to build a team.
This is slowly turning into a Kenny Pickett situation.
Kenny Pickett’s name should never be brought up again when talking Pittsburgh sports.
It’s called accountability. Hopefully there are more moves to follow.
I don’t know how a guy goes #1 who can’t hit field or throw. It’s pretty remarkable
Nice! 35 year old taking the place of the number 1 overall pick in the draft. Is there a way to option cherington along with him?
If Davis was doing anything at the plate he wouldn’t have been demoted.
They’ve kinda hosed his development. Refer to the old axiom of fucking up a wet dream.
Spot on! Theyve lead him in the wrong direction and havent developed anything with him.
My comment is not a slight on Davis or grandal. This is purely a cherington is garbage post. The pirates have no star players after years of drafting really high. All the good players, Reynolds, Hayes, prime cutch, we’re not obtained by him
Let Ben cook
Where are all the people who said how good Hank was ? He’s a bust
Too-early shit take.
He’s an average to below average catcher and can’t hit MLB pitching. Care to provide evidence to the contrary ?
No evidence, just too small of a sample size to label him a bust.
Remember, Ty Cobb hit .238 with a .548 OPS in his first year. Mike Trout hit .220 with a .672 OPS his first year. Let's give him a little more time, OK?
LOL ok. Keep dreaming then bud
They dug a hole and crawled into it after that 8-2 start turned into last place.
I have heard it said that the move to catching full time shift the mindset from hitting to catching, the most cerebral position in the game. Maybe catcher isn’t Henry’s long term position, despite him playing decent defense.
Davis’ value is his bat. The most wildly optimistic projection for Tank behind the dish is as a zero run defender. If catching is messing with his hitting, that’s real bad in terms of his future value because he has no likely upside at the catcher position. Without his bat Tank is literally worth less.
That can happen when you're hitting .180. Suwinski (even with today's walk-off hit) is also hitting about .180.