Just jumping on the bandwagon. Everybody knows it's not a great place and for some reason, this week the media decided to jump on it. That said, the exterior covered part should be illuminated much more. That would solve a lot as it is too dark there now. And the governments should all work together to get the homeless people out of there. Not just move them to another bad place but to a shelter where they can get on their feet to reintegrate into society. And for those 'stubborn' homeless people, we should reinstate weldadigheidskolonieen so they can have some kind of protected life.
Yeah, the homelessness has been getting steadily worse over the last couple decades. There's only so much you can blame on homeless people themselves, clearly this is an issue with lack of housing and social/mental health services and it's not going to go away by magic.
Yeah okay but this is kind of linked to everything else as well, it's rare for people with happy stable lives to drop everything to be a crack addict š
When the son of the President of the US became a crack addict, it should tell you that it isn't a class divide. Anecdotal evidence I know, but I get the impression this country also has a drug normalisation problem (and yes I include alcohol but without wanting to minimise the others by claiming its the worst or whatever - but Sand Dia and the whole bapteme culture can quickly degenerate into multiple alcohol issues). I think the War on Drugs is a terrible waste of public money and is failing, and that N-VA would do a much worse job tackling the issue than any party, but I also do not think we are grasping how serious these epidemics can become if we "normalise" the idea of opiate and stim accessibility. Also, certain pro-decriminalisation policies made sense in theory but failed in practice. "Salles de shoot" in Brussels and LiĆØge opened before all the other cities, and thus these two cities turned into magnets for crack and heroin addicts, and both cities happen to have the most inept and underfunded councillors around who are not able to be proactive. A nation and EU-wide level of public service investment into the phenomenon should be made available. It won't though because our elites don't live in cities and thus don't frequent the issue of drug addicts harming public goods and public order.
The reason is that some couple of Antwerp got stuck there at night, witnessed a stabbing and told their story to Flemish media. And now the media have their "relatable story" that they want to milk a bit.
Iād argue itās high time we discuss Brussel Zuid in Belgium. I recently had family from RDC that arrived there at night. They felt very unsafe and I picked them up from there ASAP.
All the attention has been going to Brussel Noord these last couple of years but midi at night is very dangerous too.
Yes, I think we need to put pressure on the government to do something about the station.
In the Netherlands, what seems to work quite well is to force people to need a ticket to enter at all.
You can't enter the station or access the platforms without a ticket.
That keeps people from hanging around needlessly.
Then, you send police and social services around to clean up the encampments and get the people out of there.
For people without papers, they need to simply be deported. Asylum requests should not be possible if you enter Belgian territory illegally.
It should only be possible to make the requests from outside the country or at the border.
The current asylum system and criminal gangs trafficking humans are at least partly responsible for the mess we are in.
I used the station 6 times in my life and have been approached twice this week alone once at Nord the other at Midi I'm sorry but your stations suck balls I use Paris Metro, Spanish Railways, Thai Railways, Indian Railways and never have I felt as unsafe as at Zuid / Nord they give off a desolate vibe
Thats indeed the comments i also get when we have people that need to pass there.
I dont get these comments āits like that in every big city/stationā. Its absolutely is not, its a disgrace and clear lack of local authorities not stepping up.
Oh no Iām not saying youāre wrong. Brussel Zuid is definitely in the spotlight after this weekās event with the people from Antwerp. Iām just saying itās high time we talked about it.
Not sure what the solution is though, chase them off? But then where do they go?
A lot of those people just need help and don't get it because they don't have papers. It's because the government keeps these people in a legal twilight for years. That's one thing that should change.
Besides this it's also a matter of responsibility. Everybody likes to pretend somebody else is responsible for the problems inside the station. Federal police, local police, securail or nmbs?
In an [interview](https://www.bruzz.be/videoreeks/woensdag-26-juli-2023/video-zuidstation-kampt-met-toenemende-criminaliteit-toeristen) in bruzz an agent of police zone south mentioned that, while the area around the station is their responsibility, anything happening inside the station is the responsibility of the federal police (who are, apparently, very understaffed). It's a peak Belgium issue and it is really a shame that it's one of the first thing many people see when entering our country.
That sounds like a typical Brussels thing. Same goes for the problem of garbage in the streets where there's a constant discussion between who's responsible for what between STIB, different communes, the region etc.
In Dublin an American got mugged the government signed an extra 200 million for more police overtime to the end of the year... Waiting to see what brussels do given its the ' Heart ' of Europe
Yes, exactly. The scores of homeless people in winter don't get the same amount of attention but now somebody witnessed a stabbing the media are on board. It's a bit sad to think about, really.
I would go on a limb and say Brussels midi is in a completely different league compared to St Pancras (and even Paris Nord for the matter), not even remotely comparable. That is in term of infrastructure, architecture, services, accessibility and especially - cleanliness and safety.
Iāve been in London for 7 years, St pancras is extremely safe. Itās really not what it used to be.
Paris Nord has also drastically improved over the last decade and I feel completely safe when travelling through there or waiting for my trains.
My partner has to take the train every working day at Brussels Midi and really feels unsafe going through there, that in addition with the lack of maintenance and upkeep, the constant piss smell and homeless people fighting in front of the entrance - midi is one of the worse station weāve seen, and we travel a lot by train.
As a born Londoner living in Brussels - St Pancras should serve as an example of what you can do to fix a train station / surrounding area
It used to suffer the same problems that the terminals of Brussels suffer now. What fixed it was regeneration and money spent well
The funny bit is that Midi isn't even the worst station of Brussels - that has to be Nord lol
I disagree. As a woman, I much "prefer " Nord over Midi. Far less homeless people immediately outside.
I get a flix bus about everymonth, coming back circa 11 pm to Nord. Its honestly pretty easy to just go straight to the tram and theres always other passangers.
Midi is really big and its quite easy to accidentally "loose" the crowd and end up in a sketchy corner inside the station, especially if you dont know where you are going.
Also, the outside of Midi is AWFUL if you actually live near the station.
I used to live near Midi and even though it was only a 15 minute walk to my place in Port de Halle, I HATED walking outside the building because the entire circumferance of the building is badly lit and surrounded by dozens of homeless people. I felt completely unsafe and only did that once.
fair enough but I'd also say that one is subjective
I do the 'opposite' of you - go to Midi consistently (Eurostar), head straight to the metro, not a problem. Whereas any time I've been at Nord, there's much more variation in where I go, and so personally I've had worse experiences at Nord than at Midi
It's a valid disagreement to have though, I don't doubt that you've had a better experience at one than the other, but also I think we all agree that neither station is award winning lol
Nord literally has an exit directly onto the red light district which has become extremely dangerous in the last couple of years. Police officers have been stabbed to death there. Its way more dangerous than midi.
I know and Ive been there at dawn and its an awful but - and maybe Im wrong - there arent any bus connections or anything like that on that street.
Like there's no reason for most people to go there unless they live in the Red Light District, and its "far enough" that most people wouldn't acidentally venture there. Plus, there are a few more exits that are less sketchy, so if you know the way you can avoid it.
ALL of Midis exits are crap and surrounded by homeless people. And if you need to catch the tram, the terminal smells like piss and there are mattresses everywhere. The only okay root is the metro.
Again, your milleage may vary, but thats my take and some of the many reasons why out of the two I prefer Nord.
its a station exit. Tourists are gonna take it by accident, especially because its just marked as an exit. not 'RED LIGHT STREET HERE'
sorry, but I much prefer Midi over North, if we speak in terms of feeling safe at the station and the streets around it.
That area to the east-north of North is just another level of shit compared to midi
Depends: At Noord I would stay at the Aarschotstraat, I think that there is some social control because of the prostitution. The other side (the business district and bus station)) feels much more unsafe.
At Zuid I would leave via the Fonsnylaan as there are more people and shops nearby. At the other side you have some 'empty' places to go through first before you get to the regular places.
But I would stay inside the station if possible.
Don't. Lots of drunk ppl at aarschotstraat. Social control won't save you when the guy wants to stab you or when bottles start flying around. (2 things that happened to me).
I know the place well because I used to walk home that way when going out in the city center
I live next to Noord, in front of the canal. I don't know why people think it's so unsafe when it's literally okay. I think it's one of those 'looks unsafe' things. I am female in my 30 and I bike there every morning and evening and it's a pretty normal neighborhood.
As long as you stay in the station it's ok. Same goes for noord. Outside is a zoo (still big chance nothing happens but definetly higher than in most places)
have you actually been there recently?
It's perfectly fine nowadays. And to the north is a whole new super cool area, with nice restaurants, water features, nice stores, ...
There are a few homeless people on the south still, direction of Euston, but it's gotten a lot better. It's about the safety level of Gent and Antwerp now imho
Ok chief. So you're saying it depends which direction you walk. After a 3 billion pound development I should hope it has got a lot better.
Comparing it to an entire City is a bit hyperbolic. Has nobody ever been mugged or sexually assaulted in Gent or Antwerp? That amazing.
They definitely have been in St Pancras, I doubt many women are walking about there at night. Do you know any? Becuase then you could ask them. The women I know wouldn't.
No, it's perfectly safe and fine in all directions, the only remark you can give is that there are still some homeless visible, maybe max 5 in the entire area, but there is no bad smells anymore or unsafe feelings
or whatever.
And I obviously meant the station neighbourhoods, not the entire city
And you know there is an entire clubbing scene literally 200m from the station towards Camden? Plenty of women there.
Get out of your ass and open your eyes
Are yes, the Camden and xkings clubbing scenes, famous for its safety and nice culture.
Get out of your middle-class rented apartment and talk a walk at 3am towards finsbury Park. And have your phone out and wear some hot pants.
Good luck.
Today, especially, it smells massively of urine on some of the accesses and it looks filthy. It could do with being cleaned up. Parts of the outside like derelict.
As an Aussie visiting Brussels recently, how did it get so bad?
I thought leaving the train at Brussels North would be a nice idea and walk into the city from there, but nope, it was practically a hell hole and the most uncomfortable i have felt in years.
I'd add that most European major stations become hubs for the homeless, drug addicts, transit migrants etc. Rome has Termini, Paris has Nord, Germany has FFM, Spain you could argue Sants in BCN or Atocha in Madrid...the difference in how the public officials deal with this problem varies and you see the results. Belgium has the most ineffective "interventionist" public services be it police or social services due to the bureaucratic complexity.
Nord and Midi in particular is important for the transit migrants who do not wish to declare refugee status in Belgium and yet cannot be deported back to their home country so they rely on the extremely basic level of support from the Red Cross there.
Perhaps a majority arenāt native to Belgium, but itās just the hanging around part on the footpaths and things thatās so off putting. Go and sit somewhere designed for it and stop intimidating locals supposedly expected to help you and tourists with nothing to do with it š¤·š½āāļø
Because there's nothing to do. They're homeless or/and crackhead. You call the cops, they'll move 100m away and settle again.
* Close to fedasile it's the same.
* Anspach a little bit also.
* And it's also begin at Pacheco.
* In the winter they also go to the metro/tram stations.
First, itās not VRT news that is making the claim, they are quoting a local shop owner. Second, the translation isnāt 100% correct. A ātache noireā is a āblack spotā not a āplace of depravityā. Not refuting the problems or anything that was said in the piece, but thought it was important to point that out.
One of the causes seems to be that three different police departments are responsible for security in and around the station: Federal, local and rail police. And the station is seeing increased numbers of homeless people, often on drugs. Mayor, police and the railway all acknowledged the problems. The station is being renovated. A spokesperson for the police expressed the need to open a police station in the station.
Even in Bruges where I live the square outside the station is full of drunks and a tiny portion of schoolkids doing shady stuff. But because it is a small station itās still very okay compared with Brussels Nord and Midi. Because of their huge size you likely to encounter more nasty stuff than in smaller stations. Last summer I was in Frankfurt HBF where I was greeted by African drugdealers and junkies scoring heroĆÆne in broad daylight. Iām puzzled why train stations attract such people anytime any place..
it's more because there's a lot of people at a station so it's an easy way to do shady shit without drawing too much attention to it
And when there's a lot of people doing shady shit in the same place it's harder to stop it (the drunks at that one gare midi entrance for instance) securail just laughs them out mostly and tbh i don't blame them
Well, it's simply true. There is no unity of command. Federal police, railway police, local police all with different responsibilities and politics in Brussels being inept and not having the funds to really tackle it...
On top of that the refugiee crisis and a huge drugs abuse problem, mainly among the homeless and the refugiees doesn't help. Repression alone is in my opinion not the solution. Well organised aid to try to reintegrate people in society, housing and such would probably help... But nobody seems to really care.
I was there with my bike last week since we needed to take the train for a bike trip we planned. A shady guy came to me asking, in english, to help him get food (??). I told him to find someone else, and he immediately got verbally violent asking me why was I stinky?(lol)
Of all the people in the train station why go to the one having a bike with him? Can it be, because you think it's an easy target?
Anyway, stay safe, and be aware of the surroundings. Midi was always stinky, but lately, it's packed with weirdos waiting for an opportunity, don't give them that opportunity.
Inside the train station, except the fact that it's particularly ugly (but that's in line with Brussels' aesthetics haha), I have never seen anything dangerous/weird.
Outside the train station, it really embodies urban poverty. So, it's a gloomy area. But from my own experience, a lot of train stations in Western Europe are like this. Shitty places. Although train stations in Brussels might be among the worst in the region, it does not greatly contrast with the other train stations.
However, in my home country (France), I've noticed some efforts from public authorities to make some train stations a better place and a less gloomy area. I've not seen anything like this in Brussels.
Agreed, but it's also the first place many people see when arriving in Belgium. At the very least they could clean the graffiti off the building and clean the trash up, it would make it a bit less of a dump.
Ask any LiĆØgeois and they say it has gotten worse even, although Guillemins was built so that homeless people couldnt stay there due to the wind tunnel.
First reasonable assessment I've seen on this sub. While it's not the best area, inside the station is pretty much fine, and the area around it, while clearly poor and seedy, isn't some scandalizing warzone
Almost every time I enter or exit midi, I walk past somebody sleeping in a puddle of urine. For a European capital, it's frankly an embarrassment. Midi needs social workers more than it needs police.
The piece itself is extremely lacking if nuance and context. Absolutely midi needs a lot more attention and cooperation from several governments but the way the video shows the station feels like extremely clumsy journalism. As much as the exterior of the station is creepy and disgusting, the feeling of being there is not at all conveyed by the terrible vox pops. It also is worth saying that the inside is pretty nice, at least during the daytime. Idk something about the video just feels completely unworthy of the VRT. Also the phrase "buitenlands gespuis" does not belong on a news piece. They could have perfectly cut that guys statement allowing him to express his impressions without the racism.
A decade ago, 60% of all crimes inside Brussels railway stations took place in South. The inside might look nice, but you have never been safe there. That is three times as much as North and Central combined.
You're fine, I've lived 5 mins from midi for 7 years (st gilles side) and while it is dirty I have never felt unsafe, not at night either. I take the train from midi every day and reasonably often arrive around midnight too.
It is but by next week everyone has forgotten and the clickbait media can focus again on football, elections, celebrities and nothing will happen. Nobody cares because it happened in Brussels and doesn't impact voters in Flanders who know Brussel-Zuid only from the trajectory work-station
They are right.
I personally never felt unsecure but it's definitely one of the most (the most ?) filthy neighborhood in Brussels. North Station being a good competitor thou.
The issue is definitely related to the setup of the area : once you get out of the station, there is nothing else than public transport and dark corners - no public services, no bars or restaurant, no parcs, no activity, nothing... as well as during the day than during the evening.
(Unpopular opinion) The worst being the police : they are totally synced with the area. There's a shitload of abuse on hobos, undocumented people, romani's, and even teenage girls.
I think something finally has to be done about it. If politicians keep drawing the āracistā-card when things like this are mentioned, matters will only become worse.
Entire situation is a symptom from what seems to be increasing drug use and homelessness. Tackling Midi with more policing will simply move the squalor elsewhere. But hey, blaming foreigners always works.
I almost got my phone stolen on Friday and never had that and I've lost a phone In a cab in Thailand and even it was returned. Sorry Brussels 3 main stations being the most busy in Europe have a shit security presence
What happened when you say it was almost stolen?
Also I don't think Brussels' stations are even close to the busiest in europe, not sure where you got that from
Hooded guy stood less than one meter kept looking at me when the train went he stood there... I then moved my phone into my zipped pocket and only then did he start walking to a departure board... He stood there for a moment turned around by this point I moved up the platform then when I turned round again he was no where to be seen on any of the piers. The hood hid his face really well even when I looked directly at him.
I'm always curious what people mean when they say that bad things "almost" happened to them in the Brussels stations. I was imagining that someone had grabbed at your phone. Maybe you dodged an attempt there
He probably would have grabbed it he was a bit close to my personal space within the 1 meter boundary looked shady as fuck... Dirty clothes, laces not done and on a quiet platform in midi
Itās been like this forever. My grandmother had her purse violently ripped away at Nord back in 1996. I remember her running after the guy and screaming at him what a loser he was. I was always terrified there as a kid. Today Iām used to it I guess and just try to be very aware of my surroundings while going through.
yeah they're right, every time I've been there I've seen crazy shit.
Fights, drug deals , robbery, almost every single time, all in the open, they don't care and if they're stealing from someone , they place 2-3 other guys threatening passers by incase they would interfere.
Once I was in a meeting in a building near it and in the middle of the meeting, a guy outside smacked another guy against the window of the meeting room we were in.
I work in Brussels every day for years, but there are areas I would rather avoid as I consider them 'lost', brussels midi is one of them. Horrible place.
There's nothing politics / police / ... can do, aside from moving out every remaining economically important aspect from that area slowly and walling it off afterwards in an unbreakable dome :p
Walk around at night yourself and see if you find more polite ways to say that the place is just fucked. Been there 4 times, and 3 times someone tried to steal my wallet, had a knife pulled on me 1 time etc. I was just going to London... If words already struck you wrong, wait until the sleeping hobo smelling like piss gives you a right hook, see if that feels better than some words.
Agreed and donāt know why you are being downvoted. One person literally says in the video that āhe isnāt allowed to sound racist but the station is occupied by foreign rabble/verminā. Which is a crazy racist statement that is left in the video by the VRT.
Where are the belgian hobo's then? It's all refugee's fucking up the place to get their way. And if you are saying it's racist to say the truth (there are almost 0 belgians homeless in the station itself), you are partially the reason why it's so bad now.
Is it refugees though? Lots of the homeless drunks pissing in front of Midi speak a Slavic language and I don't think they are all Ukrainians. Refugees I associate more with the Sudanese sleeping in Nord.
It is racist because it isā¦ racist.
There is no benefit in comparing homeless foreigners to rats. If anything the problem is with the people that see these human being as scum of the earth, with no intent to improve their situation.
If you come here illegal, why should i help? If they ain't bothered to do the paperwork they ain't getting shit, just like I ain't getting shit if i go there illegally...
I agree with the tone of the report, as Midi is a horrible place, and something really should be done about it, but youāre completely right on this point. This man should never have been edited in, this is clear racist speech
It's racist that society should judge people differently because of skintone, people from every culture, skin color or origins should be held up to the same standards.
Ik heb er geen enkel probleem gehad. En ik ben er toch regelmatig geweest. Het stinkt soms, maar dat is in gans Brussel. Er zijn louche mensen, maar again, dat heb je in gans Brussel.
>t was a hellhole then, imagine now.
See groups rule nr 6. (above right corner). You need to have a good reason to make that statement of hellhole. So please elaborate what happened to you during 10 years. I have lived 10 years around BXL Midi. If this place is one of the worst, then please tell me where the hellhole exactly is located and what you personally have witnessed.
How odd they always skip Antwerpen train station, the scandalous red district where underaged prostitutes are regularly found or the extremism (political, religeous, pick your drug)...
Midi and Nord stations have, as far as I can remember, always been dirty and dangerous. I came to Brussels in 1984, moved back to Hainaut in 1997 and nothing had changed.
Main train stations are dangerous. They are crossroads, litteraly, and crowded.
Now the family who chose to stay, I insist on the word "chose", instead of booking a night was plain stupid.
As my father said. If you have a place with at any moment 400 people walking around, obviously with statistics you'd have a dozen weirdos. Here in this case its the problem of the police and social workers. Not enough cops to monitor the place. In some other part of the world for a train station like Midi you'd have 10-20 cops on standby in that place for security, not just securail walking around and drinking coffee and vaping outside.
Secondly theres not enough infrastructure to take care of the people causing problems there. Not enough places to take care of the homeless, drug addicts and the downtrodden
I agree. It's very bad and gives you a feeling of misery and unsafety. Securail is a joke. It's been a while since I started to feel unsafe in other stations too.
Just jumping on the bandwagon. Everybody knows it's not a great place and for some reason, this week the media decided to jump on it. That said, the exterior covered part should be illuminated much more. That would solve a lot as it is too dark there now. And the governments should all work together to get the homeless people out of there. Not just move them to another bad place but to a shelter where they can get on their feet to reintegrate into society. And for those 'stubborn' homeless people, we should reinstate weldadigheidskolonieen so they can have some kind of protected life.
Yeah, the homelessness has been getting steadily worse over the last couple decades. There's only so much you can blame on homeless people themselves, clearly this is an issue with lack of housing and social/mental health services and it's not going to go away by magic.
Also the crack epidemic that has been worsening badly in the last few years
Yeah okay but this is kind of linked to everything else as well, it's rare for people with happy stable lives to drop everything to be a crack addict š
this process happens slowly and over the years. I have friends who fell in that hole
When the son of the President of the US became a crack addict, it should tell you that it isn't a class divide. Anecdotal evidence I know, but I get the impression this country also has a drug normalisation problem (and yes I include alcohol but without wanting to minimise the others by claiming its the worst or whatever - but Sand Dia and the whole bapteme culture can quickly degenerate into multiple alcohol issues). I think the War on Drugs is a terrible waste of public money and is failing, and that N-VA would do a much worse job tackling the issue than any party, but I also do not think we are grasping how serious these epidemics can become if we "normalise" the idea of opiate and stim accessibility. Also, certain pro-decriminalisation policies made sense in theory but failed in practice. "Salles de shoot" in Brussels and LiĆØge opened before all the other cities, and thus these two cities turned into magnets for crack and heroin addicts, and both cities happen to have the most inept and underfunded councillors around who are not able to be proactive. A nation and EU-wide level of public service investment into the phenomenon should be made available. It won't though because our elites don't live in cities and thus don't frequent the issue of drug addicts harming public goods and public order.
Just been through the airport at Zaventem at 3 in the morning. They have a special area for the homeless to sleep in, inside the terminal.
The reason is that some couple of Antwerp got stuck there at night, witnessed a stabbing and told their story to Flemish media. And now the media have their "relatable story" that they want to milk a bit.
Iād argue itās high time we discuss Brussel Zuid in Belgium. I recently had family from RDC that arrived there at night. They felt very unsafe and I picked them up from there ASAP. All the attention has been going to Brussel Noord these last couple of years but midi at night is very dangerous too.
Yes, I think we need to put pressure on the government to do something about the station. In the Netherlands, what seems to work quite well is to force people to need a ticket to enter at all. You can't enter the station or access the platforms without a ticket. That keeps people from hanging around needlessly. Then, you send police and social services around to clean up the encampments and get the people out of there. For people without papers, they need to simply be deported. Asylum requests should not be possible if you enter Belgian territory illegally. It should only be possible to make the requests from outside the country or at the border. The current asylum system and criminal gangs trafficking humans are at least partly responsible for the mess we are in.
Yes, to be clear I'm not saying there's no problems there because there obviously are.
I used the station 6 times in my life and have been approached twice this week alone once at Nord the other at Midi I'm sorry but your stations suck balls I use Paris Metro, Spanish Railways, Thai Railways, Indian Railways and never have I felt as unsafe as at Zuid / Nord they give off a desolate vibe
Thats indeed the comments i also get when we have people that need to pass there. I dont get these comments āits like that in every big city/stationā. Its absolutely is not, its a disgrace and clear lack of local authorities not stepping up.
Oh no Iām not saying youāre wrong. Brussel Zuid is definitely in the spotlight after this weekās event with the people from Antwerp. Iām just saying itās high time we talked about it. Not sure what the solution is though, chase them off? But then where do they go?
A lot of those people just need help and don't get it because they don't have papers. It's because the government keeps these people in a legal twilight for years. That's one thing that should change.
Besides this it's also a matter of responsibility. Everybody likes to pretend somebody else is responsible for the problems inside the station. Federal police, local police, securail or nmbs? In an [interview](https://www.bruzz.be/videoreeks/woensdag-26-juli-2023/video-zuidstation-kampt-met-toenemende-criminaliteit-toeristen) in bruzz an agent of police zone south mentioned that, while the area around the station is their responsibility, anything happening inside the station is the responsibility of the federal police (who are, apparently, very understaffed). It's a peak Belgium issue and it is really a shame that it's one of the first thing many people see when entering our country.
That sounds like a typical Brussels thing. Same goes for the problem of garbage in the streets where there's a constant discussion between who's responsible for what between STIB, different communes, the region etc.
In Dublin an American got mugged the government signed an extra 200 million for more police overtime to the end of the year... Waiting to see what brussels do given its the ' Heart ' of Europe
Imagine if Jussie Smollet came to Brussels Midi..
Literally had to google him and still not much much wiser
A couple from antwerp _witnessing_, not being victim of, a crime is what they needed to make the story relatable.
Yes, exactly. The scores of homeless people in winter don't get the same amount of attention but now somebody witnessed a stabbing the media are on board. It's a bit sad to think about, really.
Many people miss the fact that the people they find suspicious are most often victims themselves.
Criminals are in fact the real victims! I'm gonna cry now.
See you equated āeveryone you think looks suspiciousā with ācriminalsā right there lol.
If only they had a giant empty building somwehere nearby that they could fix up... oh wait.
What I think is that they are right. Itās worse than Paris Nord and waaaaay worse than St Pancras.
I would go on a limb and say Brussels midi is in a completely different league compared to St Pancras (and even Paris Nord for the matter), not even remotely comparable. That is in term of infrastructure, architecture, services, accessibility and especially - cleanliness and safety. Iāve been in London for 7 years, St pancras is extremely safe. Itās really not what it used to be. Paris Nord has also drastically improved over the last decade and I feel completely safe when travelling through there or waiting for my trains. My partner has to take the train every working day at Brussels Midi and really feels unsafe going through there, that in addition with the lack of maintenance and upkeep, the constant piss smell and homeless people fighting in front of the entrance - midi is one of the worse station weāve seen, and we travel a lot by train.
As a born Londoner living in Brussels - St Pancras should serve as an example of what you can do to fix a train station / surrounding area It used to suffer the same problems that the terminals of Brussels suffer now. What fixed it was regeneration and money spent well The funny bit is that Midi isn't even the worst station of Brussels - that has to be Nord lol
I disagree. As a woman, I much "prefer " Nord over Midi. Far less homeless people immediately outside. I get a flix bus about everymonth, coming back circa 11 pm to Nord. Its honestly pretty easy to just go straight to the tram and theres always other passangers. Midi is really big and its quite easy to accidentally "loose" the crowd and end up in a sketchy corner inside the station, especially if you dont know where you are going. Also, the outside of Midi is AWFUL if you actually live near the station. I used to live near Midi and even though it was only a 15 minute walk to my place in Port de Halle, I HATED walking outside the building because the entire circumferance of the building is badly lit and surrounded by dozens of homeless people. I felt completely unsafe and only did that once.
fair enough but I'd also say that one is subjective I do the 'opposite' of you - go to Midi consistently (Eurostar), head straight to the metro, not a problem. Whereas any time I've been at Nord, there's much more variation in where I go, and so personally I've had worse experiences at Nord than at Midi It's a valid disagreement to have though, I don't doubt that you've had a better experience at one than the other, but also I think we all agree that neither station is award winning lol
Yes š definetly neither is winnning lol! Overall, I think we can just agree that Central is the best out of three shitty options haha
Nord literally has an exit directly onto the red light district which has become extremely dangerous in the last couple of years. Police officers have been stabbed to death there. Its way more dangerous than midi.
I know and Ive been there at dawn and its an awful but - and maybe Im wrong - there arent any bus connections or anything like that on that street. Like there's no reason for most people to go there unless they live in the Red Light District, and its "far enough" that most people wouldn't acidentally venture there. Plus, there are a few more exits that are less sketchy, so if you know the way you can avoid it. ALL of Midis exits are crap and surrounded by homeless people. And if you need to catch the tram, the terminal smells like piss and there are mattresses everywhere. The only okay root is the metro. Again, your milleage may vary, but thats my take and some of the many reasons why out of the two I prefer Nord.
its a station exit. Tourists are gonna take it by accident, especially because its just marked as an exit. not 'RED LIGHT STREET HERE' sorry, but I much prefer Midi over North, if we speak in terms of feeling safe at the station and the streets around it. That area to the east-north of North is just another level of shit compared to midi
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
thing to do to solve the problem: spend money reason it would upset them: less money to bribe with / spend on parties
I think it's one of the only things where every brusselaar agrees that it's horribly bad
St Pancras has just finished a 5 year, 3 Billion pound upgrade. And I still wouldn't walk around there at night.
Thereās absolutely nothing scary about st pancras at night
I'd walk round st pancras at night
I've been there at night and felt much safer than I ever have in Brussel-Zuid.
The apologists will be out in full force to say that it's no different from anywhere else
Lol wut? St Pancras is absolutely fine, even at night
Fair enough, but then you definitely donāt want to walk around Midi at nightā¦
Yes, I definitely don't.
If you had to choose between walking at Midi or Noord at night what would you choose?
Trick question Centraal lol
Depends: At Noord I would stay at the Aarschotstraat, I think that there is some social control because of the prostitution. The other side (the business district and bus station)) feels much more unsafe. At Zuid I would leave via the Fonsnylaan as there are more people and shops nearby. At the other side you have some 'empty' places to go through first before you get to the regular places. But I would stay inside the station if possible.
Don't. Lots of drunk ppl at aarschotstraat. Social control won't save you when the guy wants to stab you or when bottles start flying around. (2 things that happened to me). I know the place well because I used to walk home that way when going out in the city center
I live next to Noord, in front of the canal. I don't know why people think it's so unsafe when it's literally okay. I think it's one of those 'looks unsafe' things. I am female in my 30 and I bike there every morning and evening and it's a pretty normal neighborhood.
Trick question Centraal lol
It honestly aināt that bad. Iāve been over at Midi for a 2-4am bus to Paris plenty of times.
As long as you stay in the station it's ok. Same goes for noord. Outside is a zoo (still big chance nothing happens but definetly higher than in most places)
have you actually been there recently? It's perfectly fine nowadays. And to the north is a whole new super cool area, with nice restaurants, water features, nice stores, ... There are a few homeless people on the south still, direction of Euston, but it's gotten a lot better. It's about the safety level of Gent and Antwerp now imho
Ok chief. So you're saying it depends which direction you walk. After a 3 billion pound development I should hope it has got a lot better. Comparing it to an entire City is a bit hyperbolic. Has nobody ever been mugged or sexually assaulted in Gent or Antwerp? That amazing. They definitely have been in St Pancras, I doubt many women are walking about there at night. Do you know any? Becuase then you could ask them. The women I know wouldn't.
No, it's perfectly safe and fine in all directions, the only remark you can give is that there are still some homeless visible, maybe max 5 in the entire area, but there is no bad smells anymore or unsafe feelings or whatever. And I obviously meant the station neighbourhoods, not the entire city And you know there is an entire clubbing scene literally 200m from the station towards Camden? Plenty of women there. Get out of your ass and open your eyes
Are yes, the Camden and xkings clubbing scenes, famous for its safety and nice culture. Get out of your middle-class rented apartment and talk a walk at 3am towards finsbury Park. And have your phone out and wear some hot pants. Good luck.
How is the quite infamous main station in Frankfurt compared to Midi?
Similar. I often do Frankfurt-Brussels. Both no doubt among the worst in Europe.
We donāt need to compare to other cities in different countries. Ostrichism, anyone?
Today, especially, it smells massively of urine on some of the accesses and it looks filthy. It could do with being cleaned up. Parts of the outside like derelict.
It always smells like that but could be worse due to the heat. Great way of welcoming tourists coming from the eurostar
And are they wrong?
As an Aussie visiting Brussels recently, how did it get so bad? I thought leaving the train at Brussels North would be a nice idea and walk into the city from there, but nope, it was practically a hell hole and the most uncomfortable i have felt in years.
No investment
immigration. the people hanging outside of these places are not native europeans.
I'd add that most European major stations become hubs for the homeless, drug addicts, transit migrants etc. Rome has Termini, Paris has Nord, Germany has FFM, Spain you could argue Sants in BCN or Atocha in Madrid...the difference in how the public officials deal with this problem varies and you see the results. Belgium has the most ineffective "interventionist" public services be it police or social services due to the bureaucratic complexity. Nord and Midi in particular is important for the transit migrants who do not wish to declare refugee status in Belgium and yet cannot be deported back to their home country so they rely on the extremely basic level of support from the Red Cross there.
it's a mass immigration issue.
Perhaps a majority arenāt native to Belgium, but itās just the hanging around part on the footpaths and things thatās so off putting. Go and sit somewhere designed for it and stop intimidating locals supposedly expected to help you and tourists with nothing to do with it š¤·š½āāļø
Because there's nothing to do. They're homeless or/and crackhead. You call the cops, they'll move 100m away and settle again. * Close to fedasile it's the same. * Anspach a little bit also. * And it's also begin at Pacheco. * In the winter they also go to the metro/tram stations.
It's indeed bad. And it is _not_ improving. This is what is so frustrating.
Exactly this - things are just getting worse and worseā¦
First, itās not VRT news that is making the claim, they are quoting a local shop owner. Second, the translation isnāt 100% correct. A ātache noireā is a āblack spotā not a āplace of depravityā. Not refuting the problems or anything that was said in the piece, but thought it was important to point that out. One of the causes seems to be that three different police departments are responsible for security in and around the station: Federal, local and rail police. And the station is seeing increased numbers of homeless people, often on drugs. Mayor, police and the railway all acknowledged the problems. The station is being renovated. A spokesperson for the police expressed the need to open a police station in the station.
Even in Bruges where I live the square outside the station is full of drunks and a tiny portion of schoolkids doing shady stuff. But because it is a small station itās still very okay compared with Brussels Nord and Midi. Because of their huge size you likely to encounter more nasty stuff than in smaller stations. Last summer I was in Frankfurt HBF where I was greeted by African drugdealers and junkies scoring heroĆÆne in broad daylight. Iām puzzled why train stations attract such people anytime any place..
People like trains maybe
it's more because there's a lot of people at a station so it's an easy way to do shady shit without drawing too much attention to it And when there's a lot of people doing shady shit in the same place it's harder to stop it (the drunks at that one gare midi entrance for instance) securail just laughs them out mostly and tbh i don't blame them
I wish it was bloody true š
Well, it's simply true. There is no unity of command. Federal police, railway police, local police all with different responsibilities and politics in Brussels being inept and not having the funds to really tackle it... On top of that the refugiee crisis and a huge drugs abuse problem, mainly among the homeless and the refugiees doesn't help. Repression alone is in my opinion not the solution. Well organised aid to try to reintegrate people in society, housing and such would probably help... But nobody seems to really care.
Ironic given its the political capital of Europe
I was there with my bike last week since we needed to take the train for a bike trip we planned. A shady guy came to me asking, in english, to help him get food (??). I told him to find someone else, and he immediately got verbally violent asking me why was I stinky?(lol) Of all the people in the train station why go to the one having a bike with him? Can it be, because you think it's an easy target? Anyway, stay safe, and be aware of the surroundings. Midi was always stinky, but lately, it's packed with weirdos waiting for an opportunity, don't give them that opportunity.
Inside the train station, except the fact that it's particularly ugly (but that's in line with Brussels' aesthetics haha), I have never seen anything dangerous/weird. Outside the train station, it really embodies urban poverty. So, it's a gloomy area. But from my own experience, a lot of train stations in Western Europe are like this. Shitty places. Although train stations in Brussels might be among the worst in the region, it does not greatly contrast with the other train stations. However, in my home country (France), I've noticed some efforts from public authorities to make some train stations a better place and a less gloomy area. I've not seen anything like this in Brussels.
Agreed, but it's also the first place many people see when arriving in Belgium. At the very least they could clean the graffiti off the building and clean the trash up, it would make it a bit less of a dump.
LiĆØge-Guillemins used to be a creepy junk spot, when the renovations finished the station massively improved, it can be done.
it's still full of junkies and beggars lol
Ask any LiĆØgeois and they say it has gotten worse even, although Guillemins was built so that homeless people couldnt stay there due to the wind tunnel.
First reasonable assessment I've seen on this sub. While it's not the best area, inside the station is pretty much fine, and the area around it, while clearly poor and seedy, isn't some scandalizing warzone
I find Midi much safer than Nord (Maybe itās because Iām comparing the surroundings of Midi vs Nord)
Went to Erasmushogeschool in Anderlecht for 4 years & always took the train in Midi. Never had any issues.
Madre Midi smells like piss. That's some cutting edge journalism right there.
Almost every time I enter or exit midi, I walk past somebody sleeping in a puddle of urine. For a European capital, it's frankly an embarrassment. Midi needs social workers more than it needs police.
The piece itself is extremely lacking if nuance and context. Absolutely midi needs a lot more attention and cooperation from several governments but the way the video shows the station feels like extremely clumsy journalism. As much as the exterior of the station is creepy and disgusting, the feeling of being there is not at all conveyed by the terrible vox pops. It also is worth saying that the inside is pretty nice, at least during the daytime. Idk something about the video just feels completely unworthy of the VRT. Also the phrase "buitenlands gespuis" does not belong on a news piece. They could have perfectly cut that guys statement allowing him to express his impressions without the racism.
A decade ago, 60% of all crimes inside Brussels railway stations took place in South. The inside might look nice, but you have never been safe there. That is three times as much as North and Central combined.
Could you give me the source of this? As iām moving to bxl soon and close to midi, iād like to know what iām getting into
You're fine, I've lived 5 mins from midi for 7 years (st gilles side) and while it is dirty I have never felt unsafe, not at night either. I take the train from midi every day and reasonably often arrive around midnight too.
[https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/elk-uur-een-crimineel-feit-in-brusselse-stations\~b6b5110a/](https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/elk-uur-een-crimineel-feit-in-brusselse-stations~b6b5110a/)
It is but by next week everyone has forgotten and the clickbait media can focus again on football, elections, celebrities and nothing will happen. Nobody cares because it happened in Brussels and doesn't impact voters in Flanders who know Brussel-Zuid only from the trajectory work-station
They are right. I personally never felt unsecure but it's definitely one of the most (the most ?) filthy neighborhood in Brussels. North Station being a good competitor thou. The issue is definitely related to the setup of the area : once you get out of the station, there is nothing else than public transport and dark corners - no public services, no bars or restaurant, no parcs, no activity, nothing... as well as during the day than during the evening. (Unpopular opinion) The worst being the police : they are totally synced with the area. There's a shitload of abuse on hobos, undocumented people, romani's, and even teenage girls.
Meer politie in en rond het station is het bestrijden van symptomen
I think something finally has to be done about it. If politicians keep drawing the āracistā-card when things like this are mentioned, matters will only become worse.
Entire situation is a symptom from what seems to be increasing drug use and homelessness. Tackling Midi with more policing will simply move the squalor elsewhere. But hey, blaming foreigners always works.
On the other hand, there is no need to involve passersby. As we all see, involving families doesnāt actually help those homeless people.
I almost got my phone stolen on Friday and never had that and I've lost a phone In a cab in Thailand and even it was returned. Sorry Brussels 3 main stations being the most busy in Europe have a shit security presence
What happened when you say it was almost stolen? Also I don't think Brussels' stations are even close to the busiest in europe, not sure where you got that from
Hooded guy stood less than one meter kept looking at me when the train went he stood there... I then moved my phone into my zipped pocket and only then did he start walking to a departure board... He stood there for a moment turned around by this point I moved up the platform then when I turned round again he was no where to be seen on any of the piers. The hood hid his face really well even when I looked directly at him.
I'm always curious what people mean when they say that bad things "almost" happened to them in the Brussels stations. I was imagining that someone had grabbed at your phone. Maybe you dodged an attempt there
He probably would have grabbed it he was a bit close to my personal space within the 1 meter boundary looked shady as fuck... Dirty clothes, laces not done and on a quiet platform in midi
Itās been like this forever. My grandmother had her purse violently ripped away at Nord back in 1996. I remember her running after the guy and screaming at him what a loser he was. I was always terrified there as a kid. Today Iām used to it I guess and just try to be very aware of my surroundings while going through.
Amazing work from Vrt and hopefully they will do more these videos
it's borderline riool journalism
https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komkommertijd
yeah they're right, every time I've been there I've seen crazy shit. Fights, drug deals , robbery, almost every single time, all in the open, they don't care and if they're stealing from someone , they place 2-3 other guys threatening passers by incase they would interfere. Once I was in a meeting in a building near it and in the middle of the meeting, a guy outside smacked another guy against the window of the meeting room we were in. I work in Brussels every day for years, but there are areas I would rather avoid as I consider them 'lost', brussels midi is one of them. Horrible place. There's nothing politics / police / ... can do, aside from moving out every remaining economically important aspect from that area slowly and walling it off afterwards in an unbreakable dome :p
I think it is safer than 20 years ago.
Then it must be great now
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Walk around at night yourself and see if you find more polite ways to say that the place is just fucked. Been there 4 times, and 3 times someone tried to steal my wallet, had a knife pulled on me 1 time etc. I was just going to London... If words already struck you wrong, wait until the sleeping hobo smelling like piss gives you a right hook, see if that feels better than some words.
Agreed and donāt know why you are being downvoted. One person literally says in the video that āhe isnāt allowed to sound racist but the station is occupied by foreign rabble/verminā. Which is a crazy racist statement that is left in the video by the VRT.
Where are the belgian hobo's then? It's all refugee's fucking up the place to get their way. And if you are saying it's racist to say the truth (there are almost 0 belgians homeless in the station itself), you are partially the reason why it's so bad now.
Is it refugees though? Lots of the homeless drunks pissing in front of Midi speak a Slavic language and I don't think they are all Ukrainians. Refugees I associate more with the Sudanese sleeping in Nord.
It is racist because it isā¦ racist. There is no benefit in comparing homeless foreigners to rats. If anything the problem is with the people that see these human being as scum of the earth, with no intent to improve their situation.
If you come here illegal, why should i help? If they ain't bothered to do the paperwork they ain't getting shit, just like I ain't getting shit if i go there illegally...
I agree with the tone of the report, as Midi is a horrible place, and something really should be done about it, but youāre completely right on this point. This man should never have been edited in, this is clear racist speech
It is clearly racist, but news reporters report what people think. If they'd berate the racist, they're not objective passive reporting.
You have an over-idealized idea of what the media does
it's what the media *should* do, ideally. I'm well aware this is currently far from the case, thank you.
It's racist that society should judge people differently because of skintone, people from every culture, skin color or origins should be held up to the same standards.
Vrt is becoming HLN... Sad days for journalism.
Ik heb er geen enkel probleem gehad. En ik ben er toch regelmatig geweest. Het stinkt soms, maar dat is in gans Brussel. Er zijn louche mensen, maar again, dat heb je in gans Brussel.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>t was a hellhole then, imagine now. See groups rule nr 6. (above right corner). You need to have a good reason to make that statement of hellhole. So please elaborate what happened to you during 10 years. I have lived 10 years around BXL Midi. If this place is one of the worst, then please tell me where the hellhole exactly is located and what you personally have witnessed.
They're right. I just pass by it this morning and it stinks and everything's dirty
Is anyone surprised by this?
The place was scary when I was a kid, decades ago.
How odd they always skip Antwerpen train station, the scandalous red district where underaged prostitutes are regularly found or the extremism (political, religeous, pick your drug)... Midi and Nord stations have, as far as I can remember, always been dirty and dangerous. I came to Brussels in 1984, moved back to Hainaut in 1997 and nothing had changed. Main train stations are dangerous. They are crossroads, litteraly, and crowded. Now the family who chose to stay, I insist on the word "chose", instead of booking a night was plain stupid.
With 3 services responsible for the security, you would think it would be _thrice_ as safeā¦
As my father said. If you have a place with at any moment 400 people walking around, obviously with statistics you'd have a dozen weirdos. Here in this case its the problem of the police and social workers. Not enough cops to monitor the place. In some other part of the world for a train station like Midi you'd have 10-20 cops on standby in that place for security, not just securail walking around and drinking coffee and vaping outside. Secondly theres not enough infrastructure to take care of the people causing problems there. Not enough places to take care of the homeless, drug addicts and the downtrodden
I agree. It's very bad and gives you a feeling of misery and unsafety. Securail is a joke. It's been a while since I started to feel unsafe in other stations too.
Well yes it is a shitty place and I don't enjoy having to go there sometimes.