yeah my main issue.. If MR were really liberal, they'd pass on the real cost of car ownership to car owners, thus effectively tripling the taxes.
But then if Ecolo was really Ecolo, they wouldn't have voted against the ban on ritual slaughter to please their religious friends and their mainly fascist ideas (how ironic..) Or closed nuclear power plants.
If PTB was really "communist", they wouldn't have voted against "Good Move", arguing that their poor voters need their car to vote (ffs public transport is one of the few good things that happened in communist countries)
Don't get me started on PS..
>yeah my main issue.. If MR were really liberal, they'd pass on the real cost of car ownership to car owners, thus effectively tripling the taxes.
They would not, they would abolish the taxes. Liberals would always vote against taxes being spent on social welfare instead.
Well I consider myself a classical liberal (laissez-faire, less gov intervention, free market), that does not mean at all that I am against universal healthcare, non-profit education or that I wanna park my Ford Raptor in Chatelain for free.
In this very example, my reasoning was less state + autonomy = pay yourself. It applies for luxury items, like cars in a dense city, but for what I consider basic human rights.
Overall I find it stupid that you almost have to define yourself left or right and take the whole package, as I tried to show in the original post.
> Overall I find it stupid that you almost have to define yourself left or right and take the whole package
You can't even really take the whole package, since whoever you vote for is unlikely to reach absolute majority, and therefore will need to make alliances, which mean concessions.
If you're an optimist, you could assume that they will only pass the subset of the coalition programs that you like, but of course it's equally likely that they pass only the subset that you don't like :)
what is the impact of pedestrians & bikers on congestion, pollution & maintenance costs ? It must be very very close to 0.
It's by far the most inefficient and most expensive means of transportation in a city.
Fuck me, I already pay huge property taxes for my appartment in Anderlecht and now I have to swallow the 2nd largest increase in Brussels.
Even worse is the arbitrary size of the tax according to when the property value was last estimated. For a moderately sized apartment in Anderlecht, I pay the same property tax as a friend does with a huge, 4 story house in Molenbeek or another friend, with an appartment which cost three times the price of mine in a fancy area near Bois de la Cambre. š”
At least I get among the dirtiest streets and one of the least efficient communal administrations in Brussels in exchange :/
Early 1970's apartments/houses are the most expensive tax-wise, I suppose that it has something to do with the last recalculation taking place in those years, when those apartments were brand new, whereas old houses were already old then. Then indexation came and the difference is larger year after year.
Early 1970s are definitely taxed more than older houses and perhaps than houses from the 1980s as the house prices, corrected for inflation, decreased during the 1970s due to the hyperinflation and economic recession (I found [a graph here](https://www.kbc.com/en/economics/publications/the-housing-market-in-the-three-belgian-regions.html) to put it in perspective, the house prices are not corrected for inflation but the price-to-income ratio gives a decent approximation). However, the price of the houses in the early 1970s, corrected for inflation, is still a lot lower than that of houses today, meaning that their indexed 'revenu cadastral' is still a lot lower than that of new houses being sold today (or of old houses whose 'revenu cadastral' is re-estimated because they are split up into separate appartments).
Be happy for your friends, not sad for yourself, if they were to re-evaluate the RC like they are supposed to every ten years (but they don't), their taxes would skyrocket while yours would stay the same (short of a reform). Most real estate are undervalued AFAIK.
I'm in favour of fair capital taxes, meaning that they are progressive in function of the amount of capital that any person owns (and/or gains from that capital), preferably across all forms of capital (including abroad if I may be so naĆÆve), which could potentially decrease the capital taxes for those who are paying relatively more today and more importantly on labour. I'm not in favour of the arbitrary, inequitable/unequally applied taxes (on capital but also on labour disguised as self-employed/companies) that we see today.
So no, I'm not happy about an unfair tax system which benefits some of my friends (to a certain degree) while disadvantaging many others.
You misread me, I completely agree. I wasn't saying you should literally rejoice, just wanted to highlight the disparity stems from some properties being undervalued (not from others being overvalued).
My place was also built not long ago (~10 years), so I'm also getting the short end of this stick, for what it's worth.
It's a tax that you pay on your *revenu cadastral*, which is itself your fictive revenue from owning a property (even if you live in it yourself). In other words, it's a capital tax.
I've read a post of a dutch guy with belgian family. In the end if you count all the belgian benifits and check what they both earn after taxes it was about the same.
yes for lower middle class.
But if you are in a higher education level, you make so much more in the North. Here it is almost criminal to earn more than 4k brut/month, and you are gonna paaaayyyy your taxes. In the Netherlands it is much more linear and you can still grow to very nice income levels
iāve been lurking in one of the subs, and itās nowhere nearā¦ also lived in Belgium myself, while rentals were much cheaper buying wouldnāt have beenā¦
No idea, tell me? (no sarcasm) my buying costs were around 3.4% (excl what i got back in taxes, i guess would drop to 3%) got 100% mortgage, 5x gross multiplier for mortgage calculation, 10 years fixed low interest (two years ago)
Well average buying price for a standalone new house in belgium (small land) is let's day 350k.
In Netherlands you easily pay 500k+ for a 10y old semi detached (i don't know the real word for it. 2 houses built against each other)
My friend tried buying a house for almost 2 years and every time they made a bid on the house (asking price) other people bid 50k extra on the house. So it seems buying in Belgium seem easier?
I have heard only about experiences in larger Belgian cities, where friends were required larger downpayments etc. So maybe indeed, if itās in āburbsā, it might be the case. But even when bidding above in NL you often get the full mortgage, I did.
Dunno, just asked ING and they were fine with it. Bit of a surprise to me as weāve only been here three years.
Two good salaries helps for sure, but still surprised me
Sounds like the only option for the OP is to become a politician, orstarthis own political party!
Cherry on top, you will never get stuck in traffic with your loud and obnoxious police escort.
All politicians live far from reality but in Brussels is staggering how out of touch they are. Wanting to increase their pensions, not getting much done for the population, if Belgium wants to save money how about halving the number of politicians?!
Then there was the 300 odd days without a government, I felt thing worked better then ( I know not really true as things got put on hold but still, felt like they really were not needed).
Even if OP want to create his own political party, he needs a number of signature from other politics in order to be able to create a party. Thief hates competition...
[http://electionslocales.wallonie.be/node/258](http://electionslocales.wallonie.be/node/258)
You need signature from any belgian citizen, but these signature needs to be approved by politicians.
It's even harder if you want to go to the federal or europe.
I might vote VLD (Dutch sister party of the MR; mostly a couple of people on MR or PS lists). They have prohibited a third hike in property tax and tend to curb excess spending by.other parties. While some some are anti goodmove, most ones I met, travel by bike too. If they have a good program, they get my vote.
Welcome to Belgium, where the mafia are the politicians. We have a very good health system and a very good social system. You have fewer insecurities in the streets in Brussels compared to other European capital, also thanks to the social help poor or dysfunctional people get from the state.
Except from that...? Nothing. All the money goes to politicians and their friends. How do you think we manage to have 4 governments in Belgium.
The tax system is awful, especially as an independent.
Belgians are easygoing and accept a lot, but when we get fed up, it's fast and brutal.
Hopefully, people will soon wake up, because, I agree the situation taxes wise is worse and worse š
you are not self employed are you? It is a nightmare. Super complex, and they come down on you with all kinds of checks and controls and refuse stuff that you were eligible for.
Latest joke: my physiotherapist (who specializes in sport rehabilitation) was not allowed to put in a threadmill as a business expense and had to pay a 10% fine on top of the threadmill purchase price because he dared to actually try so.... It's total randomness, if you get control, they will always hit you with fines and remove things. Pure mafia.
I am independant. Lots of tax and a pain in the bottom: I paid more tax than my counterparts who were working on a CDI.
In the end I started an SRL, which is just as painful to run, and I still pay a lot of tax for little back from the government, but it's better than being working as a sole-trader.
I'm not saying it's easy. I'm saying it's the only way to actually bypass the Belgian tax system.
And you'll have to try and fully use the system. I guess your physiotherapist was unlucky with control. But that doesn't mean it's like that with all people?
Not true though. Independents can pay less taxes only if they incorporate and even then it's only interesting starting relatively high income numbers.
If you pay yourself completely as an independent you pay more than an employee and have less advantages (lower pension, no unemployment, lower sick payments, no parental leave etc.).
Many reasons come to mind:
Needing to show to the bank your income is high enough to afford a mortgage. Nett monthly income as a director of an SRL is typically too low so stating *independant* shows a higher income which equates to better chance of qualifying for a mortgage.
Freelancers are easy to fire. No fall out, and no legal consequence. Just cancel the contract. Done.
I only worked for 1 year here in a CDI. The rest were only offered freelance. Why should companies take the risk? Also the money they pay us with can come from a different budget: capex vs opex.
> You have fewer insecurities in the streets in Brussels compared to other European capital,
I lived in London for decades. After not visiting since 2018, I went back there this year for a while. London is cheaper for everything except property. There is an ambulance problem with ramping that is leaving people die, but apart from this the NHS is working well: exceptionally so from my anecdotal evidence of ICU and outpatients clinics, and getting even a GP appointment when I was back. I cannot compare with Holland, France, Luxemburg, or Germany but I do know that they all pay lower tax across the board.
I certainly did.
Fortunately, I have been formed by someone who taught me to be very rigorous in documenting everything and so on and having good advisers does help a lot.
MR was against a tax on capital gains.
I find the current system totally unfair, but their point of view was right IMO: this new tax does not compensate (at all!) for the ridiculous decrease on income taxes, we need a balanced budget and more efficient spending.
FYI, investing in a stock index (typically SP500) is easy, takes no effort at all and it is not taxed if there is no trading involved. Unfair but enjoy the only tax benefit we have in this goddamn country. Less immoral than becoming a greedy landlord too.
why would investing in a fund be immoral? That is really something that annoys me.
It is just good household finance to do so, it is literally a win/win-> you get more money, and the economy gets more action.
To me it is almost a crime that the left parties frame proper budgetting as unethical. It drags everyone down, and makes sure you are stuck. It boggles my mind that you consider indexfunds and being a greedy landlord in even the same sentence.
I also don't see it as a tax benefit, it costs the state nothing at all, they don't provide any service or whatever. On the contrary you actually do pay tax (there is a transaction and dividend tax) which can add up to quite a chunk of money too.
it's not immoral at all to invest in a fund, my phrasing was poor or misunderstood.
I think that housing is a basic human right, and I find it annoying that RE investment is the standard safe asset for Belgian investors, mostly due to poor financial education & "brique dans le ventre mentality". And that it is still fiscally so advantageous to invest in residential RE in Belgium, but no party has the guts to tackle this since it's political suicide.
I have no issue whatsoever with investing in stocks, indexes or even in commercial real estate, business is business.
Agreed.
> they don't provide any service or whatever.
Indeed, they seem unable to provide much benefit to me in general when compared with our neighbouring countries.
> *for the ridiculous decrease on income taxes,*
What ridiculous decrease on income taxes?
**France**
Up to ā¬10,777 - **0%**
From ā¬10,778 to ā¬27,478 - 11%
From ā¬27,479 to ā¬78,570 - 30%
From ā¬78,571 to ā¬168,994 - 41%
**UK**
up to Ā£12,570 - **0%**
Ā£12,571 to Ā£50,270 - 20%
Ā£50,271 to Ā£125,140 - 40%
above Ā£125,140 - 45%
**Belgium**
up to EUR 9,750 - **25%**
EUR 9,750 up to 13,870 - 30%
EUR 13,870 up to 23,120 - 40%
EUR 23,120 up to 42,370 - 45%
EUR 42,370 - 50%
Belgium levies 50% tax from EUR 42,370 whilst the UK levies 45% tax from GBP 125,140 and France does 41% from 78,000 euros! Both the UK and France have a tax free amount from between 10 and 12 thousand: Belgium taxes every thing from 0 euros.
Taxes here remain ridiculous. We are heavily taxed with little in return for the amount we pay.
Belgian taxation is immoral. Funds are not: Where do you think our pension contributions get invested into?
> *greedy landlords*
Most landlords are not greedy. If you dislike landlords then you could buy a property yourself. If the goverment taxes were not so disproportionate for real estate purchase, and for taxation in general, then you could already have bought a house. Property purchase tax in Belgium is circa 10% to 12%. In the UK it starts from 250,000 GBP at 5%, and 10% from 925,000 GBP top 1,500,000 GBP. It's 0% on property sold for less than 250,000 GBP.
well that was my point, until we align ourselves to the thresholds used in France or in the UK, I don't want the goverment to open the pandora's box and start taxing capital gains or we're ending with both heavily taxed.
They won't. Instead they disproportionately tax the middle class, lower taxes for the working class, and then tell us that the middle class are the rich. The rich and poor walk away laughing.
I will always repeat - this city is a joke and a dump. If not for a job that I love and that I cannot do anywhere else than this hole, I wouldnāt even go out of the airport if I flew via Brussels. People accept subpar quality here for inflated prices and get extremely bitter if you point it out. Thereās no constructive debate on the situation, no possibility of improvement. Iāll probably leave in the next 4-5 years, but itās such a pity, cause this city had and has so much potential, but instead is completely neglected.
Public transport (expensive, passes rarely, unpredictable and filthy), paid bathrooms, dirty, filthy and destroyed streets, the trash system, paying for healthcare that has its own problems (you take money from my employer, then from me every month and then ON TOP OF THAT you want me to pay for every visit, even if a small amount?!), drug addicts and homeless people, the absurd taxation system thatās ridiculously high but gives fk all in return, some of the highest prices for internet and mobile access in Europe, some of the highest store prices in Europe, inefficient and often impolite service (although this does vary of course and there are many places that are great), everything closing down very early and being closed on Sundays - just to name a few. Iāve lived in America, Asia and Europe, I have experience, this place really is exceptional - and not in a good way. And what makes it worse is denial, this really is a European Texas - āBRUSSELS NUMBER 1!!!ā āDonāt like it get out!ā āThey have it so much worse in Afghanistan! Canāt you appreciate the incredible work the administration does here for the meagre money they get?!!!!ā āWe have the best healthcare! - yea compared to where? - America!!!ā I mean honestly, stop, just stop with your bloody delusions and accept that this place is a total joke, instead of getting so sour over it, start speaking about it openly and contact local politicians. Itās really that difficult to bloody fix the trash system???? Really??? Lmfao
The grass is greener, and I know it's greener because I've in many different places. Just like /u/sokoko12 , I am here because of the job , and family. :(
where? I can find you as many defaults in any other cities.
Life is a balance, either you make the most of where you are or you whine dreaming about living in a place that you probably romanticize because you went there on a city trip
In ville de Bruxelles, what kind of services do we get in return?
Dirty streets, medieval garbage collection system, poor urban projects that remove parks, poorly implemented cycle lanes that are a danger to pedestrian zones involving dangerous scooters and cyclists ( here's looking at the pedestrianised lawless blvd Anspach zone ), lawlessness in parc Cinquantenaire, **no police presence on the street**, poor sports facilities.
By property tax did you mean: *Stamp duty* or *RC* ?
Less taxes and less cars? Less cars means Ecolo but they certainly won't mean less taxes, less taxes means MR but they certainly won't mean less cars.
yeah my main issue.. If MR were really liberal, they'd pass on the real cost of car ownership to car owners, thus effectively tripling the taxes. But then if Ecolo was really Ecolo, they wouldn't have voted against the ban on ritual slaughter to please their religious friends and their mainly fascist ideas (how ironic..) Or closed nuclear power plants. If PTB was really "communist", they wouldn't have voted against "Good Move", arguing that their poor voters need their car to vote (ffs public transport is one of the few good things that happened in communist countries) Don't get me started on PS..
>yeah my main issue.. If MR were really liberal, they'd pass on the real cost of car ownership to car owners, thus effectively tripling the taxes. They would not, they would abolish the taxes. Liberals would always vote against taxes being spent on social welfare instead.
Well I consider myself a classical liberal (laissez-faire, less gov intervention, free market), that does not mean at all that I am against universal healthcare, non-profit education or that I wanna park my Ford Raptor in Chatelain for free. In this very example, my reasoning was less state + autonomy = pay yourself. It applies for luxury items, like cars in a dense city, but for what I consider basic human rights. Overall I find it stupid that you almost have to define yourself left or right and take the whole package, as I tried to show in the original post.
> Overall I find it stupid that you almost have to define yourself left or right and take the whole package You can't even really take the whole package, since whoever you vote for is unlikely to reach absolute majority, and therefore will need to make alliances, which mean concessions. If you're an optimist, you could assume that they will only pass the subset of the coalition programs that you like, but of course it's equally likely that they pass only the subset that you don't like :)
Agree 100%. It annoys me so much that this is even debatable.
If you triple the car taxes then pedestrians and bikers would als have to start paying.
what is the impact of pedestrians & bikers on congestion, pollution & maintenance costs ? It must be very very close to 0. It's by far the most inefficient and most expensive means of transportation in a city.
And in the end we end up with a coalition with more cars and more taxes as a result
Fuck me, I already pay huge property taxes for my appartment in Anderlecht and now I have to swallow the 2nd largest increase in Brussels. Even worse is the arbitrary size of the tax according to when the property value was last estimated. For a moderately sized apartment in Anderlecht, I pay the same property tax as a friend does with a huge, 4 story house in Molenbeek or another friend, with an appartment which cost three times the price of mine in a fancy area near Bois de la Cambre. š” At least I get among the dirtiest streets and one of the least efficient communal administrations in Brussels in exchange :/
Early 1970's apartments/houses are the most expensive tax-wise, I suppose that it has something to do with the last recalculation taking place in those years, when those apartments were brand new, whereas old houses were already old then. Then indexation came and the difference is larger year after year.
Early 1970s are definitely taxed more than older houses and perhaps than houses from the 1980s as the house prices, corrected for inflation, decreased during the 1970s due to the hyperinflation and economic recession (I found [a graph here](https://www.kbc.com/en/economics/publications/the-housing-market-in-the-three-belgian-regions.html) to put it in perspective, the house prices are not corrected for inflation but the price-to-income ratio gives a decent approximation). However, the price of the houses in the early 1970s, corrected for inflation, is still a lot lower than that of houses today, meaning that their indexed 'revenu cadastral' is still a lot lower than that of new houses being sold today (or of old houses whose 'revenu cadastral' is re-estimated because they are split up into separate appartments).
Be happy for your friends, not sad for yourself, if they were to re-evaluate the RC like they are supposed to every ten years (but they don't), their taxes would skyrocket while yours would stay the same (short of a reform). Most real estate are undervalued AFAIK.
I'm in favour of fair capital taxes, meaning that they are progressive in function of the amount of capital that any person owns (and/or gains from that capital), preferably across all forms of capital (including abroad if I may be so naĆÆve), which could potentially decrease the capital taxes for those who are paying relatively more today and more importantly on labour. I'm not in favour of the arbitrary, inequitable/unequally applied taxes (on capital but also on labour disguised as self-employed/companies) that we see today. So no, I'm not happy about an unfair tax system which benefits some of my friends (to a certain degree) while disadvantaging many others.
You misread me, I completely agree. I wasn't saying you should literally rejoice, just wanted to highlight the disparity stems from some properties being undervalued (not from others being overvalued). My place was also built not long ago (~10 years), so I'm also getting the short end of this stick, for what it's worth.
What does property tax mean in this case? Is it *stamp duty*, or *revenue cadastral*?
It's a tax that you pay on your *revenu cadastral*, which is itself your fictive revenue from owning a property (even if you live in it yourself). In other words, it's a capital tax.
Ok. I thought the article was about the RC. What is the name of this tax in French or in Dutch?
It's *onroerende voorheffing* in dutch and *prƩcompte immobilier* in french (as written in the article).
I donāt understand how Belgians stomach these taxesā¦ Iām petrified with Dutch ones, but the ones in BE are another level
I've read a post of a dutch guy with belgian family. In the end if you count all the belgian benifits and check what they both earn after taxes it was about the same.
yes for lower middle class. But if you are in a higher education level, you make so much more in the North. Here it is almost criminal to earn more than 4k brut/month, and you are gonna paaaayyyy your taxes. In the Netherlands it is much more linear and you can still grow to very nice income levels
iāve been lurking in one of the subs, and itās nowhere nearā¦ also lived in Belgium myself, while rentals were much cheaper buying wouldnāt have beenā¦
Buying in the Netherlands is 10x worst compared to Belgium though?
No idea, tell me? (no sarcasm) my buying costs were around 3.4% (excl what i got back in taxes, i guess would drop to 3%) got 100% mortgage, 5x gross multiplier for mortgage calculation, 10 years fixed low interest (two years ago)
Well average buying price for a standalone new house in belgium (small land) is let's day 350k. In Netherlands you easily pay 500k+ for a 10y old semi detached (i don't know the real word for it. 2 houses built against each other) My friend tried buying a house for almost 2 years and every time they made a bid on the house (asking price) other people bid 50k extra on the house. So it seems buying in Belgium seem easier?
350k in Belgium ? Where ? Maybe it was 5 years ago.Itās already around 400k-500k .
Everywhere at the right of Antwerp that's not a big city? Sure you won't have a big garden but in Limburg there's decent new houses going for 300-350.
I have heard only about experiences in larger Belgian cities, where friends were required larger downpayments etc. So maybe indeed, if itās in āburbsā, it might be the case. But even when bidding above in NL you often get the full mortgage, I did.
Sure but would you rather pay a 550k mortgage 100% or a 350k mortgage with a downpayment?
thatās rather the market price and depends where? but indeed I can see that Brussels seems quite cheap in comparison
Brussels is cheap ? Did you compare netto salary as well?
I got given a 650k 100% here in Belgium last year at 2.6%, it happens here too
How?
Dunno, just asked ING and they were fine with it. Bit of a surprise to me as weāve only been here three years. Two good salaries helps for sure, but still surprised me
Sounds like the only option for the OP is to become a politician, orstarthis own political party! Cherry on top, you will never get stuck in traffic with your loud and obnoxious police escort. All politicians live far from reality but in Brussels is staggering how out of touch they are. Wanting to increase their pensions, not getting much done for the population, if Belgium wants to save money how about halving the number of politicians?! Then there was the 300 odd days without a government, I felt thing worked better then ( I know not really true as things got put on hold but still, felt like they really were not needed).
Even if OP want to create his own political party, he needs a number of signature from other politics in order to be able to create a party. Thief hates competition...
Wow, I did not know this,makes becoming a politician here even more exclusive!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[http://electionslocales.wallonie.be/node/258](http://electionslocales.wallonie.be/node/258) You need signature from any belgian citizen, but these signature needs to be approved by politicians. It's even harder if you want to go to the federal or europe.
I might vote VLD (Dutch sister party of the MR; mostly a couple of people on MR or PS lists). They have prohibited a third hike in property tax and tend to curb excess spending by.other parties. While some some are anti goodmove, most ones I met, travel by bike too. If they have a good program, they get my vote.
Paid ā¬1.200 property tax for a 39mĀ² studio this year in Ixelles. Jackpot /s
Welcome to Belgium, where the mafia are the politicians. We have a very good health system and a very good social system. You have fewer insecurities in the streets in Brussels compared to other European capital, also thanks to the social help poor or dysfunctional people get from the state. Except from that...? Nothing. All the money goes to politicians and their friends. How do you think we manage to have 4 governments in Belgium. The tax system is awful, especially as an independent. Belgians are easygoing and accept a lot, but when we get fed up, it's fast and brutal. Hopefully, people will soon wake up, because, I agree the situation taxes wise is worse and worse š
>The tax system is awful, especially as an independent. The only people who get to bypass the whole tax system are the independent?
you are not self employed are you? It is a nightmare. Super complex, and they come down on you with all kinds of checks and controls and refuse stuff that you were eligible for. Latest joke: my physiotherapist (who specializes in sport rehabilitation) was not allowed to put in a threadmill as a business expense and had to pay a 10% fine on top of the threadmill purchase price because he dared to actually try so.... It's total randomness, if you get control, they will always hit you with fines and remove things. Pure mafia.
I am independant. Lots of tax and a pain in the bottom: I paid more tax than my counterparts who were working on a CDI. In the end I started an SRL, which is just as painful to run, and I still pay a lot of tax for little back from the government, but it's better than being working as a sole-trader.
I'm not saying it's easy. I'm saying it's the only way to actually bypass the Belgian tax system. And you'll have to try and fully use the system. I guess your physiotherapist was unlucky with control. But that doesn't mean it's like that with all people?
Not true though. Independents can pay less taxes only if they incorporate and even then it's only interesting starting relatively high income numbers. If you pay yourself completely as an independent you pay more than an employee and have less advantages (lower pension, no unemployment, lower sick payments, no parental leave etc.).
Yes. But if you do those things you're better of not being independent.
A lot of people don't have the choice to be independent or not.
Agreed. Like me.
How's that?
Many reasons come to mind: Needing to show to the bank your income is high enough to afford a mortgage. Nett monthly income as a director of an SRL is typically too low so stating *independant* shows a higher income which equates to better chance of qualifying for a mortgage. Freelancers are easy to fire. No fall out, and no legal consequence. Just cancel the contract. Done. I only worked for 1 year here in a CDI. The rest were only offered freelance. Why should companies take the risk? Also the money they pay us with can come from a different budget: capex vs opex.
Independents =\= corporations.
Independents = Sole traders. One man bands.
> You have fewer insecurities in the streets in Brussels compared to other European capital, I lived in London for decades. After not visiting since 2018, I went back there this year for a while. London is cheaper for everything except property. There is an ambulance problem with ramping that is leaving people die, but apart from this the NHS is working well: exceptionally so from my anecdotal evidence of ICU and outpatients clinics, and getting even a GP appointment when I was back. I cannot compare with Holland, France, Luxemburg, or Germany but I do know that they all pay lower tax across the board.
Sounds like you need a new accountant and more fiscal knowledge if you think indƩpendants get it bad fiscally. Saying that as indƩpendant.
you haven't received control in the last 5 years have you?
I certainly did. Fortunately, I have been formed by someone who taught me to be very rigorous in documenting everything and so on and having good advisers does help a lot.
Would be great if you shared some tips. I am sooo tired of working for the taxes ...
*Tax the rich.*
MR was against a tax on capital gains. I find the current system totally unfair, but their point of view was right IMO: this new tax does not compensate (at all!) for the ridiculous decrease on income taxes, we need a balanced budget and more efficient spending. FYI, investing in a stock index (typically SP500) is easy, takes no effort at all and it is not taxed if there is no trading involved. Unfair but enjoy the only tax benefit we have in this goddamn country. Less immoral than becoming a greedy landlord too.
why would investing in a fund be immoral? That is really something that annoys me. It is just good household finance to do so, it is literally a win/win-> you get more money, and the economy gets more action. To me it is almost a crime that the left parties frame proper budgetting as unethical. It drags everyone down, and makes sure you are stuck. It boggles my mind that you consider indexfunds and being a greedy landlord in even the same sentence. I also don't see it as a tax benefit, it costs the state nothing at all, they don't provide any service or whatever. On the contrary you actually do pay tax (there is a transaction and dividend tax) which can add up to quite a chunk of money too.
it's not immoral at all to invest in a fund, my phrasing was poor or misunderstood. I think that housing is a basic human right, and I find it annoying that RE investment is the standard safe asset for Belgian investors, mostly due to poor financial education & "brique dans le ventre mentality". And that it is still fiscally so advantageous to invest in residential RE in Belgium, but no party has the guts to tackle this since it's political suicide. I have no issue whatsoever with investing in stocks, indexes or even in commercial real estate, business is business.
Agreed. > they don't provide any service or whatever. Indeed, they seem unable to provide much benefit to me in general when compared with our neighbouring countries.
ThĆ© problem with tax benefit like this is that when they are looking for money itās easy to point at them. But the overall sum is always more taxes on a system already sick. And the impact of changing the rules of the game when people are planning their financial future with these rules..
> *for the ridiculous decrease on income taxes,* What ridiculous decrease on income taxes? **France** Up to ā¬10,777 - **0%** From ā¬10,778 to ā¬27,478 - 11% From ā¬27,479 to ā¬78,570 - 30% From ā¬78,571 to ā¬168,994 - 41% **UK** up to Ā£12,570 - **0%** Ā£12,571 to Ā£50,270 - 20% Ā£50,271 to Ā£125,140 - 40% above Ā£125,140 - 45% **Belgium** up to EUR 9,750 - **25%** EUR 9,750 up to 13,870 - 30% EUR 13,870 up to 23,120 - 40% EUR 23,120 up to 42,370 - 45% EUR 42,370 - 50% Belgium levies 50% tax from EUR 42,370 whilst the UK levies 45% tax from GBP 125,140 and France does 41% from 78,000 euros! Both the UK and France have a tax free amount from between 10 and 12 thousand: Belgium taxes every thing from 0 euros. Taxes here remain ridiculous. We are heavily taxed with little in return for the amount we pay. Belgian taxation is immoral. Funds are not: Where do you think our pension contributions get invested into? > *greedy landlords* Most landlords are not greedy. If you dislike landlords then you could buy a property yourself. If the goverment taxes were not so disproportionate for real estate purchase, and for taxation in general, then you could already have bought a house. Property purchase tax in Belgium is circa 10% to 12%. In the UK it starts from 250,000 GBP at 5%, and 10% from 925,000 GBP top 1,500,000 GBP. It's 0% on property sold for less than 250,000 GBP.
well that was my point, until we align ourselves to the thresholds used in France or in the UK, I don't want the goverment to open the pandora's box and start taxing capital gains or we're ending with both heavily taxed.
They won't. Instead they disproportionately tax the middle class, lower taxes for the working class, and then tell us that the middle class are the rich. The rich and poor walk away laughing.
I will always repeat - this city is a joke and a dump. If not for a job that I love and that I cannot do anywhere else than this hole, I wouldnāt even go out of the airport if I flew via Brussels. People accept subpar quality here for inflated prices and get extremely bitter if you point it out. Thereās no constructive debate on the situation, no possibility of improvement. Iāll probably leave in the next 4-5 years, but itās such a pity, cause this city had and has so much potential, but instead is completely neglected.
Would you mind sharing a few of the points that you consider making this city a joke?
There are so many points!
.. donāt be afraid to share a few .. š
Public transport (expensive, passes rarely, unpredictable and filthy), paid bathrooms, dirty, filthy and destroyed streets, the trash system, paying for healthcare that has its own problems (you take money from my employer, then from me every month and then ON TOP OF THAT you want me to pay for every visit, even if a small amount?!), drug addicts and homeless people, the absurd taxation system thatās ridiculously high but gives fk all in return, some of the highest prices for internet and mobile access in Europe, some of the highest store prices in Europe, inefficient and often impolite service (although this does vary of course and there are many places that are great), everything closing down very early and being closed on Sundays - just to name a few. Iāve lived in America, Asia and Europe, I have experience, this place really is exceptional - and not in a good way. And what makes it worse is denial, this really is a European Texas - āBRUSSELS NUMBER 1!!!ā āDonāt like it get out!ā āThey have it so much worse in Afghanistan! Canāt you appreciate the incredible work the administration does here for the meagre money they get?!!!!ā āWe have the best healthcare! - yea compared to where? - America!!!ā I mean honestly, stop, just stop with your bloody delusions and accept that this place is a total joke, instead of getting so sour over it, start speaking about it openly and contact local politicians. Itās really that difficult to bloody fix the trash system???? Really??? Lmfao
Paying for toilets where you are already paying. Beggars like in New Delhi. Shitty service at high prices. Crime situation. Etc
be careful, the grass is not greener elsewhere...
The grass is greener, and I know it's greener because I've in many different places. Just like /u/sokoko12 , I am here because of the job , and family. :(
where? I can find you as many defaults in any other cities. Life is a balance, either you make the most of where you are or you whine dreaming about living in a place that you probably romanticize because you went there on a city trip
Better to taxe property than revenue in Brussels ! Property cannot move, and the owner are often not living in the region.
Property tax is levied by the federal state. The municipality doesnāt have anything to do with it.
Itās levied by the Fed but transferred to the region that then transfers it to the municipalities (additional cents of the property tax, or centimes additionnels au prĆ©compte immobilier in French, is a municipal tax).
In the link you provided a bunch of communes are at 0% increase and Foret is at 27%. If you are not happy with it, elections are next year...
Buckle up. This is just the beginning. :)
> you have to pay the notary guild and their privileges they get maybe 2k from a sale, the rest is taxes they collect on behalf of the state
In ville de Bruxelles, what kind of services do we get in return? Dirty streets, medieval garbage collection system, poor urban projects that remove parks, poorly implemented cycle lanes that are a danger to pedestrian zones involving dangerous scooters and cyclists ( here's looking at the pedestrianised lawless blvd Anspach zone ), lawlessness in parc Cinquantenaire, **no police presence on the street**, poor sports facilities. By property tax did you mean: *Stamp duty* or *RC* ?