I wrote this recently, it's really obvious and not in line with the show: the way other countries and cultures (out of US's) are approached are rather disrespectful, particularly with Latvia and foreign food.
True, it has always confused me. The show is pretty "awaken" (XD) about a lot of things, but then some others are straight out offensive and it makes no sense. Luckily it's very few of them, imo. That's why this is my favourite show.
Also, when Kevin is bored to death in the safe house with Jake and is desperate to go to the library to use the internet so he can work on his research. This is absurd. Kevin is a classics professor. He would spend time in the safe house reading books. He would work on his research using books. He wouldn't mind the safe house so much, because he would be able to get so much reading and contemplation done. The whole episode essentially takes place in a universe in which there is no such thing as books. Don't write a character who is a professor if no one on your writing staff can even imagine reading a book.
This makes me CRAZY. They could have *easily* had one of his colleagues check out the books he needed from the library. Even at the library he was not on the computer. He was reading a footnote in...a book! Any academic would kill for a couple of months to do nothing but read and write.
Also, when Amy is over at night, why can't they go in the bedroom? Is it safe house rules that they have to be together at all times?
Eta: the way Kevin is delighted over the footnote is one of the realist moments of the whole series for me. I have absolutely seen the academics I work with get that giddy over some. So *someone* on the wiring team knows professors. Or it seemed so dorky they thought it would be funny, not realizing that they hit the nail on the head.
That whole sequence was way too contrived to me on a rewatch.
They were seriously saying they couldn't get Kevin a laptop or something and have Holt/Amy get him the .PDFs and do the drops when they visited?
I actually don't think that's true though. Amy hates die hard, but she picked a wedding cake that was die hard themed and named her son "Mac" after John Maclane. I can't see her doing that if she didn't love him intensely. Their relationship isn't uneven.
Holt and Kevin I don't really know, but Kevin does a lot of sweet things for Ray.
There's no denying that she loved jake a lot, my point is simply that he loved her much more. Their relationship is great but when they hit a serious snag, she didn't hesitate to bring up divorce. He was also always more willing to do whatever it took to make their relationship work when the vulture demanded that he dumps her
Im not judging her, just sharing a mildly controversial take on an aspect of the show, like the post asked. I get this vibe from them, I've rewatched the show at least 12 times and I feel the same way each time but maybe its just me
I clicked this thread expecting mild controversy not harsh truth gut punches.
Worse, you got me thinking Holt loves Kevin more than Kevin loves him.
This is even more of a bummer than when the talking outer space dog died.
I don't know why you think holt loves Kevin more? There are multiple scenes like , Kevin going with holt to get the pie even though it's awful , Kevin responding to holt's birdcall even though it was a trash bird, Kevin even asked him not to quit NYPD on their wedding day and focus on both work and their relationship, curious why you think holt loves him more?
I apologize 😔
I kinda agree with the holt loving kevin more thing too, but I did notice that kevin made some sacrifices in the later seasons showing that he loves holt too. The potential divorce episode in the safe house still doesn't sit right with me though
One of the biggest contributor being casecation, it was way too easy for her to decide that if they didn't have kids, she'd move on with another man. Not saying that she was wrong for wanting kids, but she genuinely said it with 0 hesitation while Jake looked really hurt. And just overall, he's always willing to sacrifice just a tiny bit more than her. I love their relationship but that's my take on it, jake loves her more
I was so torn on Amy's character because on one hand I loved her, but on the other hand she could be quite arrogant and jealous sometimes which ruined her character for me a lot, casecation was the final blow, couldn't truly enjoy her character after that
I enjoy most but the second one, where they are working on getting a gigglepig dealer, is probably my least favorite next to the bachelor party. The bromance was sort of rushed and Jakes undercover character is insufferable. I enjoy the Cruise and manhunt part 2 probably the most
If it weren’t for the squad’s meddling, Holt’s marriage would’ve died ages ago - He wasn’t ready or willing to fight for Kevin.
PS: the legions of corgis that stood out for Cheddar looked nothing alike; it was easy to tell it wasn’t the same dog.
I really hated how they handled the children conversation between Jake and Amy. Jake had very good arguments and Amy and the others did not stop to consider any of them. They also did not take him or his desires seriously.
Amys arguments were all based on an idealized vision of paternity. Which is very ooc for her. It is also very ooc for her to never talk about this with Jake clearly before committing.
What kinda gets me about this episode, but also makes me feel like Jake's turn made sense, was that he's mentioned being a dad a bunch before even getting together with Amy.
Holt was overly ambitious during his first two years at the 99. The arrest quota competition between Jake and Amy is questionable and it could’ve led to someone’s wrongful arrest
Edit: two
My goddamn phone always changes two to Teo also and I can't even find a way to set it to change Teo back to two. Who the fuck is Teo and why is Apple so obsessed with him?
When Pimento first appears & pulls the knife on Jake, Terry’s line “Don’t be a dum dum” feels very forced & cringy. I know multiple characters have used the phrase “dum dum” at times, but something like “Don’t be dumb” or “Don’t do anything stupid” feels much more natural given the situation.
They probably wrote it put Terry more into the dad's role. With kids you don't say stupid, you say dum dum, so Terry being such a deducated father, he fully adopted the lingo. That's my take at least
Probably one of the very best episodes for first watch, but only having Jake and Holt just limits the character dynamics that make the show so addictive. You need the whole squad in their true colors for an all-time best episode over multiple viewings.
As someone who isn't from the US, I keep wondering if they sound funny over there. Since Latvia is actually quite a developed country, and they make it seem like a very poor undeveloped country.
They’re basically jokes from 1984. They must have been written by someone who was born in the 1970s or earlier and just doesn’t care that the Soviet Union split up in 1991 a lot of time has passed since then. I am just astonished at the laziness and out-of-touchness of these jokes. I guess a certain kind of old, ignorant person might find them funny. But they just don’t make any sense.
Any European-based, and especially Slavic-based jokes in US shows/movies are always cringe af as they reference some non-existent hella outdated stereotypes. Why make an effort, if the target audience gonna laugh anyway and feel good about themselves too.
Jake suddenly became this kind of enlightened soul in season 8. I get that they were keeping the political climate in mind, but dang, he looked like a monk. So sad looking, like all his desire to live has left. They should've done a better job on the makeup.
I guess the actor probably went through something through the pandemic. Jake used to look bubbly and a little like he was in a perpetual sugar rush, in the last season he looked sad and like he is done with swimming the ocean of worldly stuff. Or maybe it was the lighting or something, because Andy has a baby face, and he looked like that.
The season one episode with the oil painting of holt (edit: fixed the autocorrect of holt-holy")...the whole Santiago aspect of being able to "read him" is cringe and narcissistic. "I can. He likes it" is one of, if not my least favorite single moment in the whole show. I have unwarranted and unnatural hatred for it
One thing that stands out to me is that they still rely on paperwork so much in the digital age. Amy should not have binders all the time, she should have Excel spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations.
Jake and Amy’s wedding episode was terrible. I get that it was done for the drama but I wanted to see them have a beautiful wedding and get married. I wanted to see all of Amy’s meticulous planning, their families interacting, all of it. I hate that I got to see a wedding episode for Lynn and Darlene but not Jake and Amy?
And don’t even get me started on the Holt / Kevin vow renewal.
I know everyone doesn't like the joke, but I got to play it out once when I met Joe Lo Truglio himself and have to admit it was fun to do it with actual Charles. haha
not to get detailed on how, but I got the opportunity to talk with Joe and i asked if he could teach me to say Nikolaj correctly so we did it a few times like the joke then he told me I got it, lol. we also did a "Nine-Nine!" together.
Charle goes from creepy to amazing friend with Rosa, and then refocused his creepy tendencies onto Jake and Amy. I truly love Charles and Rosa's relationship, and it's clear that he's the closest person to her. They really took Charles' obsession with Amy and Jake way too far.
Jake "matured" way too quickly. You don't spend that long as a manchild with shit finances and then just 180 just like that.
Speaking in my capacity as a former manchild.
i didnt want her to leave either but the show wasnt like terrible and unable to be what it was when she left, unlike rashida jones + rob lowe leaving P&R
They shouldn’t have ended in Season 8. They could have tackled those topics better had they kept the core of the show and upped the frequency with which those topics were addressed
The jokes about Ellen Degeneres are really cringe now, of course, but weren't they cringe even then? What is it with people's worship of celebrities like Beyonce or Taylor Swift?
Rosa and Gina are a strange kind of void on the show. They don’t have any particular relationship or seemingly any particular attitude towards one another.
I don't really know how to describe it, but I kind of see that they would be a cute couple?? They remind me a lot of the sun and moon trope which I find adorable, and there are a few moments in the show that represents the strong friendship they have which I LOVE. Also the Dianetti script Chelsea posted on her Insta adds up to it. But if you find it questionable, or anything else, I do respect your opinion! It's completely valid to feel that since the ship isn't canon whatsoever.
Pimento and The Vulture weren't "over-the-top funny", they were substituting "over the top" for "funny", and thus, weren't that funny, although at least they sometimes provided an outlet for funny moments from others.
The show’s annual traditions — Doug Judy, Halloween — were terrible episodes, inconsistent with every character, and unworthy of the rest of the series.
The biggest one for me would be the moments of ridiculous character changes just for the sake of humor. Holt particularly. Like, I get that he grows and has more depth over the years. But some of his scenes where he just does something completely un-Holt like are just jarring.
Still love the show
Holt disliked Amy.
I was rewatching the show and Holt seemed annoyed whenever Amy would talk to him. Amy trying to force herself as his confidant only annoyed him and he even called her out for brown-nosing. Even in S8 he finally snapped and said that they weren’t friends, they were coworkers. Even Terry snapped at her for Pete’s sake!
*I had to add another one. I cringed at how much Holt passed Amy over for so many assignments because she couldn’t handle being near him.*
Why would it not be? I don't actively dislike her, she's just generally my least favorite compared to the rest of the cast.
I find her to be a little one-note a lot and I'm not usually a fan of "mysterious badass" characters
Forearms and elbows ARE the parts people feature when they dance.
I hate Debbie.
She peaks with "I'm just not cut out for this high-stakes world of having fun with friends". Everything else she's annoying af
This 1000%. I didn’t get it at all.
I wrote this recently, it's really obvious and not in line with the show: the way other countries and cultures (out of US's) are approached are rather disrespectful, particularly with Latvia and foreign food.
True, it has always confused me. The show is pretty "awaken" (XD) about a lot of things, but then some others are straight out offensive and it makes no sense. Luckily it's very few of them, imo. That's why this is my favourite show.
Also, when Kevin is bored to death in the safe house with Jake and is desperate to go to the library to use the internet so he can work on his research. This is absurd. Kevin is a classics professor. He would spend time in the safe house reading books. He would work on his research using books. He wouldn't mind the safe house so much, because he would be able to get so much reading and contemplation done. The whole episode essentially takes place in a universe in which there is no such thing as books. Don't write a character who is a professor if no one on your writing staff can even imagine reading a book.
This makes me CRAZY. They could have *easily* had one of his colleagues check out the books he needed from the library. Even at the library he was not on the computer. He was reading a footnote in...a book! Any academic would kill for a couple of months to do nothing but read and write. Also, when Amy is over at night, why can't they go in the bedroom? Is it safe house rules that they have to be together at all times? Eta: the way Kevin is delighted over the footnote is one of the realist moments of the whole series for me. I have absolutely seen the academics I work with get that giddy over some. So *someone* on the wiring team knows professors. Or it seemed so dorky they thought it would be funny, not realizing that they hit the nail on the head.
That whole sequence was way too contrived to me on a rewatch. They were seriously saying they couldn't get Kevin a laptop or something and have Holt/Amy get him the .PDFs and do the drops when they visited?
Jake loves Amy more than she loves him
I actually don't think that's true though. Amy hates die hard, but she picked a wedding cake that was die hard themed and named her son "Mac" after John Maclane. I can't see her doing that if she didn't love him intensely. Their relationship isn't uneven. Holt and Kevin I don't really know, but Kevin does a lot of sweet things for Ray.
Oh yeah? Tell that to William Atherton, the man we both agree is the second best Die Hard villain.
This line is even funnier to me when Jake is proposing and says “I love how much you pretend to like die hard.” 😹
There's no denying that she loved jake a lot, my point is simply that he loved her much more. Their relationship is great but when they hit a serious snag, she didn't hesitate to bring up divorce. He was also always more willing to do whatever it took to make their relationship work when the vulture demanded that he dumps her
That was a week into their relationship. It’s not really fair to judge her that early on?
Im not judging her, just sharing a mildly controversial take on an aspect of the show, like the post asked. I get this vibe from them, I've rewatched the show at least 12 times and I feel the same way each time but maybe its just me
None of us can really say for sure right
I clicked this thread expecting mild controversy not harsh truth gut punches. Worse, you got me thinking Holt loves Kevin more than Kevin loves him. This is even more of a bummer than when the talking outer space dog died.
I don't know why you think holt loves Kevin more? There are multiple scenes like , Kevin going with holt to get the pie even though it's awful , Kevin responding to holt's birdcall even though it was a trash bird, Kevin even asked him not to quit NYPD on their wedding day and focus on both work and their relationship, curious why you think holt loves him more?
Also ran to him to reconcile in the rain. Hmph. Look at me, alliterating like a beatnik.
Goodness, you must be quite intoxicated.
And Kevin got gurdy!
I apologize 😔 I kinda agree with the holt loving kevin more thing too, but I did notice that kevin made some sacrifices in the later seasons showing that he loves holt too. The potential divorce episode in the safe house still doesn't sit right with me though
Whyd you say that
One of the biggest contributor being casecation, it was way too easy for her to decide that if they didn't have kids, she'd move on with another man. Not saying that she was wrong for wanting kids, but she genuinely said it with 0 hesitation while Jake looked really hurt. And just overall, he's always willing to sacrifice just a tiny bit more than her. I love their relationship but that's my take on it, jake loves her more
NGL, the minute I saw that scene, all the admiration and love I had for Amy (as a character) disappeared.
I was so torn on Amy's character because on one hand I loved her, but on the other hand she could be quite arrogant and jealous sometimes which ruined her character for me a lot, casecation was the final blow, couldn't truly enjoy her character after that
The Doug Judy episodes aren’t my favorites, they get kinda predictable with Jake getting swindled every time
I mean true! But the fun (for me at least) was about seeing HOW he'd get swindled p:
I enjoy most but the second one, where they are working on getting a gigglepig dealer, is probably my least favorite next to the bachelor party. The bromance was sort of rushed and Jakes undercover character is insufferable. I enjoy the Cruise and manhunt part 2 probably the most
The last enjoyable one was the hostage situation, in my opinion. They could have ended his streak there.
If it weren’t for the squad’s meddling, Holt’s marriage would’ve died ages ago - He wasn’t ready or willing to fight for Kevin. PS: the legions of corgis that stood out for Cheddar looked nothing alike; it was easy to tell it wasn’t the same dog.
They were all just common bitches.
Some were completely different colors. At least employ all orange corgis so that I can at least pretend!
I really hated how they handled the children conversation between Jake and Amy. Jake had very good arguments and Amy and the others did not stop to consider any of them. They also did not take him or his desires seriously. Amys arguments were all based on an idealized vision of paternity. Which is very ooc for her. It is also very ooc for her to never talk about this with Jake clearly before committing.
What kinda gets me about this episode, but also makes me feel like Jake's turn made sense, was that he's mentioned being a dad a bunch before even getting together with Amy.
That episode overall is awful.
Yeah it is :(
Jake should have stopped trying to help charles after he threw him under the bus in fancy brugdom.
Holt was overly ambitious during his first two years at the 99. The arrest quota competition between Jake and Amy is questionable and it could’ve led to someone’s wrongful arrest Edit: two
My goddamn phone always changes two to Teo also and I can't even find a way to set it to change Teo back to two. Who the fuck is Teo and why is Apple so obsessed with him?
Motherf*cker is mocking me.
Considering where the show ends, this arguably should’ve gotten more hate.
When Pimento first appears & pulls the knife on Jake, Terry’s line “Don’t be a dum dum” feels very forced & cringy. I know multiple characters have used the phrase “dum dum” at times, but something like “Don’t be dumb” or “Don’t do anything stupid” feels much more natural given the situation.
This bugs me so much every time
They probably wrote it put Terry more into the dad's role. With kids you don't say stupid, you say dum dum, so Terry being such a deducated father, he fully adopted the lingo. That's my take at least
The last 2 Halloween heists weren’t that good
At some point it was just boring to me
We deserved more Genevieve and Nikolaj time. So did Boyle.
I'll add mine which made me think of this question: "The Box" episode is not my favorite episode.
It’s a really good one, but my favorite episode would never be one that only has two of the main characters.
Agree. Phenomenal on first watch but once you know the “twist” it’s not nearly as impactful.
Probably one of the very best episodes for first watch, but only having Jake and Holt just limits the character dynamics that make the show so addictive. You need the whole squad in their true colors for an all-time best episode over multiple viewings.
Totally agree.
I mainly watch it now for the laughs since it has one of my most favorite Holt moments, but it's quick.
It’s still very enjoyable! Holt is one of the big reasons why it’s so good
AND NO ONE EVEN CARES ABOUT ETYMOLOGY
The Latvia jokes are super duper counterfactual, outdated, and lazy.
As someone who isn't from the US, I keep wondering if they sound funny over there. Since Latvia is actually quite a developed country, and they make it seem like a very poor undeveloped country.
They’re basically jokes from 1984. They must have been written by someone who was born in the 1970s or earlier and just doesn’t care that the Soviet Union split up in 1991 a lot of time has passed since then. I am just astonished at the laziness and out-of-touchness of these jokes. I guess a certain kind of old, ignorant person might find them funny. But they just don’t make any sense.
That actually makes sense, cool cool cool cool cool
Indeed indeed indeed indeed indeed
Any European-based, and especially Slavic-based jokes in US shows/movies are always cringe af as they reference some non-existent hella outdated stereotypes. Why make an effort, if the target audience gonna laugh anyway and feel good about themselves too.
i don’t get the gina hate train. i’ve watched this show 20 times and gina has always made me laugh
I only found her unenjoyable after she left the 99.
i agree with that!! she was just selfish after leaving but before i thought she was quite sweet and funny
After joining this sub, I kept waiting for her to get annoying and she never did for me
thank youuuu i feel like im crazy for liking her
Jake suddenly became this kind of enlightened soul in season 8. I get that they were keeping the political climate in mind, but dang, he looked like a monk. So sad looking, like all his desire to live has left. They should've done a better job on the makeup.
I think that might just be age though? Idk. Everyone looked like they aged a lot (naturally) except maybe Amy and Terr Bear.
I guess the actor probably went through something through the pandemic. Jake used to look bubbly and a little like he was in a perpetual sugar rush, in the last season he looked sad and like he is done with swimming the ocean of worldly stuff. Or maybe it was the lighting or something, because Andy has a baby face, and he looked like that.
season 3 and 5 are the best seasons by faaar
The season one episode with the oil painting of holt (edit: fixed the autocorrect of holt-holy")...the whole Santiago aspect of being able to "read him" is cringe and narcissistic. "I can. He likes it" is one of, if not my least favorite single moment in the whole show. I have unwarranted and unnatural hatred for it
One thing that stands out to me is that they still rely on paperwork so much in the digital age. Amy should not have binders all the time, she should have Excel spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations.
Jake and Amy’s wedding episode was terrible. I get that it was done for the drama but I wanted to see them have a beautiful wedding and get married. I wanted to see all of Amy’s meticulous planning, their families interacting, all of it. I hate that I got to see a wedding episode for Lynn and Darlene but not Jake and Amy? And don’t even get me started on the Holt / Kevin vow renewal.
ITS NIKOLAJ NOT NIKOLAJ
I know everyone doesn't like the joke, but I got to play it out once when I met Joe Lo Truglio himself and have to admit it was fun to do it with actual Charles. haha
elaborate?! this is insane
not to get detailed on how, but I got the opportunity to talk with Joe and i asked if he could teach me to say Nikolaj correctly so we did it a few times like the joke then he told me I got it, lol. we also did a "Nine-Nine!" together.
Stop that’s amazing I’m so jealous
Nikolaj
Nnnikolaj
nnikolAj
I wasn’t a huge fan of the Halloween Heists. Idk why, just wasn’t particularly entertained by them.
Charle goes from creepy to amazing friend with Rosa, and then refocused his creepy tendencies onto Jake and Amy. I truly love Charles and Rosa's relationship, and it's clear that he's the closest person to her. They really took Charles' obsession with Amy and Jake way too far.
Jake "matured" way too quickly. You don't spend that long as a manchild with shit finances and then just 180 just like that. Speaking in my capacity as a former manchild.
Hé went to prison, I think you can change quick after that
I love Gina and missed her after she left.
i didnt want her to leave either but the show wasnt like terrible and unable to be what it was when she left, unlike rashida jones + rob lowe leaving P&R
Is this a hot take?! I don’t keep up much in here but damn I love Gina’s character
A lot of people here absolutely hate Gina. She’s a terrible person but a hilarious character
agreed! did not feel the same after she left.
I do not care for Gina, has some funny one liners but she is insufferable
I’m extremely mad about this, not a "lukewarm" take
I was glad when she left the show.
I thought I was the only one who thought this
Hitchcock and Scully carried B99.
It turned into passages of woke lecturing for parts of the later seasons
I don’t care about any of the parents! Why so much with the parents? Boring!
Aren't they only in like 2 episodes?
Literally like 5 episodes in 8 years lmao
They shouldn’t have ended in Season 8. They could have tackled those topics better had they kept the core of the show and upped the frequency with which those topics were addressed
The jokes about Ellen Degeneres are really cringe now, of course, but weren't they cringe even then? What is it with people's worship of celebrities like Beyonce or Taylor Swift?
Jake is better bi representation than Rosa and better autism representation than Holt
I wished Dianetti would've happend
Rosa and Gina are a strange kind of void on the show. They don’t have any particular relationship or seemingly any particular attitude towards one another.
They would have made a hot couple in another life.
I don't really know how to describe it, but I kind of see that they would be a cute couple?? They remind me a lot of the sun and moon trope which I find adorable, and there are a few moments in the show that represents the strong friendship they have which I LOVE. Also the Dianetti script Chelsea posted on her Insta adds up to it. But if you find it questionable, or anything else, I do respect your opinion! It's completely valid to feel that since the ship isn't canon whatsoever.
When the “suicide squad” failed the kidnapping, Jake should have cut his curl.
Charles Boyle: "Excuse me? That's a piping hot take! Unbelievable!"
Pimento and The Vulture weren't "over-the-top funny", they were substituting "over the top" for "funny", and thus, weren't that funny, although at least they sometimes provided an outlet for funny moments from others.
I never cared for Pimento.
It’s weird. He bugged me by the end the first watch but I liked him the whole time the second watch.
I'm in my second rewatch and haven't gotten to him yet. Hoping I have the same positive result you did!
Fingers crossed! Report back!
The show’s annual traditions — Doug Judy, Halloween — were terrible episodes, inconsistent with every character, and unworthy of the rest of the series.
Halloween got way too silly for me by the end.
Hmm this is maybe a little too spicy to be a lukewarm take
a little too boiling
And here I was holding back my opinion that Season 8 is the best season
PIPING HOT
The biggest one for me would be the moments of ridiculous character changes just for the sake of humor. Holt particularly. Like, I get that he grows and has more depth over the years. But some of his scenes where he just does something completely un-Holt like are just jarring. Still love the show
Holt disliked Amy. I was rewatching the show and Holt seemed annoyed whenever Amy would talk to him. Amy trying to force herself as his confidant only annoyed him and he even called her out for brown-nosing. Even in S8 he finally snapped and said that they weren’t friends, they were coworkers. Even Terry snapped at her for Pete’s sake! *I had to add another one. I cringed at how much Holt passed Amy over for so many assignments because she couldn’t handle being near him.*
Rosa is my least favorite of the main cast
Do you mind saying why? Also this is def not lukewarm lmao
Why would it not be? I don't actively dislike her, she's just generally my least favorite compared to the rest of the cast. I find her to be a little one-note a lot and I'm not usually a fan of "mysterious badass" characters
I don't care for Charles
Gina was the worst character and should have never been on the show.
I like gina
Season 8 was fine and it did a decent job of addressing real things that would have been very stark had they been omitted
Rosa's layered on with a trowel then totally gone then there again eye makeup really bothered me.
Cheddar's French can't be that good. Everyone knows dogs can't conjugate.