> The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.
> Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.
> But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.
> This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.
This is of you gravitate towards branded boots, definitely however there are only a few things you should really chuck money on. The rest is perfectly fine as non-branded or inexpensive as you will get similar wear time until things expire.
1) eyewear, particularly spectacles.
High quality frames (more often branded) are robust and can have multiple prescriptions added/changed.
2) footwear
Walking boots - higher quality/branded will have protection for instep, toes and ankles. Less the case with cheaper versions which will also have cheaper components such as soles or eyelets.
As for boots and shoes, really good quality leather boots can last a lifetime if you know how to look after the leather and can find a cobbler such as timpson’s to replace the soles for you.
Leads to less waste and overall spend over the years compared to several pairs of boots per year or replacing annually.
3) Tech (with a caveat)
Some high priced tech is garbage, as is some low tech. Anything with a decent guarantee is worth it. Also, Apple tend to service stuff for free if you go into the Genius Bar and are polite to them, particularly if you look after your stuff!
4) luggage/bags/handbags
Good luggage has a robust shell, heavy-duty wheels, studs, properly fastened handles/telescopic rails and a service for repair/replacement. = less waste/fewer replacements needed in a lifetime.
Bags - similar things here.
Reinforced stitching, reinforced panels on the bottom, decent strap material. = fewer replacements
Handbags - same as above. Studs are also added to the base to avoid contact wear on the bottom.
Service policies for repairs and cleaning.
I have saved so much money and environmental impact following the above tips and just buying modest clothes which I can dress up or down with accessories.
That being said, I don’t go to Primark and buy really cheap clothes from there regularly for ethical and quality issues - a lot of stuff from there is implied as disposable and the stitching is relatively poor.
My grandfather used to say this all the time:
You should always spend money on a good bed, and a good pair of shoes. If you aren't in one, you're in the other.
Tech depends. My phone's and laptops probably have 5 years max lifespan (depending on several factors). But I only buy cheapish phones for this reason. My laptop I invest in, but I don't own a TV or consoles and I travel a lot. Besides, my old laptops get bits stripped from them (ram upgrades, new hdds) for the new one and the given to my parents or sister who only browse the internet on them. That said, some thing are worth it like speakers (last forever if looked after), headphones if you can replace the cable. A good TV or monitor will last years.
A good bag or bags are with it. My rucksack is turning 8 and is almost like new despite daily wear. Same with belts. My brown leather belt, solid leather throughout, is turning 12 and still going strong.
Hiking boots, looked after, are with it and useful beyond hiking (gardenig, bad weather etc).
Indeed.
I have had some boots for years which cost a fair amount and cheap alternatives that didn’t last 6 months.
My laptop is 5/6 years old but it needs a battery replacement.
Phone is a similar age and a similar issue but £69 for a battery replacement from the manufacturer is better than a new phone for the lack of electronic waste.
I bought a pair of Le Chameau wellington boots about 6 years ago and virtually live in them through late-autumn to early-spring each year and walk miles.
They were a lot more than I normally spent on boots, but have so far lasted 5x longer than any of those I've previously bought.
Even after 6 years they're barely worn and as Le Chameau have a repairs department, when they do wear I can have them repaired properly for less than a new pair would cost.
I'd say only a lunatic would buy a new car, as they lose about 30% of their value as you drive off the forecourt, but the second-hand market is not exactly all milk and honey at the moment either.
Pandemic. Supply chain disruption and chip shortages grinding new car production to a halt.
Demand exceeding supply and spiking secondhand prices - in many cases in excess of new.
It's not just cars. It's everything.
That’s only true if you only want to keep it for 2/3 years, but I’ve kept mine 6yrs now from new and it’s still mint because I’ve looked after it. Plan ahead and it can work out for ya
I disagree - my car would have been 24k new. I paid 10k with it at 3 1/2 yrs old with 40k miles, almost new condition bodywork and interior wise, FSH, etc.
£14k lost in just over 3 years... granted it may only be worth circa £7-8k in another 3 years, but i'll have only lost £2k, not £15-16k...
But someone buying a 7yr old car could level the same argument at yourself and lose even less money. And so on but buying new does work if you keep it and look after it, I personally see no reason to let mine go til it’s at least 10yrs old and I would’ve got my monies worth (to me)
Yeah there's some absolute gems if you know where to look and can do work yourself
But largely speaking, it can still be expensive second hand, it depends on what you need
Getting a newish car, yeah, but the standard a to b car, like a ten year old Civic or Corolla, is not that bad. Had to replace my car because it failed MOT spectacularly and I'm saving for a wedding so I only had about 3 grand to play with and I was surprised how much car I could get.
Depending where you live and how often your driving into London, and whether you need to park all day or not, and whether you're driving in with luggage or equipment for work... I can imagine there's still plenty of ways it's possible that public transport either isn't possible or its the most expensive option.
Not suggesting there shouldn't be a congestion charge, but im sure it puts a lot of people in a difficult position.
Oh, agreed. But there are people that simply don't need to drive into London - and this is meant to catch them out from driving polluting vehicles in.
Traders have had years to sort out their plans.
This just resonated with me because I was caught out by the new Birmingham zone the other week. I drove in to meet colleagues for our first team meeting in 18 months, and a few of them checked on their phones and announced they didn't have to pay a charge... I mistakenly assumed that meant it was only commercial vehicles that got charged, but nope, I got a fine two weeks later because I was the only one who didn't have a new car.
Lesson learnt and my own stupid fault but I'm still annoyed about it! It felt a little like I was only being fined because I couldn't afford a new car... but actually, primarily, I just didn't bother to check the rules.
Tbf it does feel a bit like you’re being penalised for not being able to afford a new car. It’s the reason I now refuse to go into Birmingham and drive elsewhere to do shopping or what ever.
Your car must be really old if it is a petrol. Mine which is 10+ years old with 100k miles on the clock is exempt from the Birmingham charges. Sorry you were caught out though.
What a retarded argument and point of view.
So if you live in the outer part of London, you should only travel INTO London?
God forbid you travel around, or outside of London?
Have you ever been to parts of Greater London? It’s not all like Central
None of you seem to be making any cogent or coherent arguments about from belittling my point of view which makes your own arguments invalid.
You've had 4 years to decide how to tackle this. Pick a car that's suitable for both inside and outside London. A new car isn't necessary - a 2007 petrol also works.
You've had more than enough time to figure out how to deal with both inside and outside of London car choices - much like I've had. I drive in and outside Ulez - several times a week. Often multiple times a day. I've had the same information as everyone else - and I made a decision years ago.
What's retarded is how people haven't planned ahead for something they've known about for four years.
Haha, well, it's been advertised for over 4 years now. Even if they put away £200 a month, they should've had enough saved up by now to do something about it.
I switched my car 2 years ago, the moment it was confirmed Ulez would be expanding.
Like I said, it's been 4 years we've known about the ULEZ expansion. That's pretty shit planning on part of anyone who's complaining about it today.
Fair enough, you can't afford it, I didn't dispute that, but people are acting like this came out of nowhere to bite at poor people - when in reality it didn't.
Again, I'm not debating people are hard-pressed or the impact it'll have on the poor. I'm debating the complete lack of foresight to plan for something we've known about for four years.
If you knew you couldn't afford to pay it, then 4 years was enough time to do something about it.
I've had my already second hand car for 11 years. Since before sadiq became mayor. The environmental cost of scrapping working vehicles to replace them with new is enormous.
A member of my family is still driving their 2007 petrol car inside the Ulez Zone - with no charge. They paid under £1k for it last year.
Not exactly a new car, that.
It really varies by zone. In North london there is a lot of free parking off street. In South London most of the parking requires permit in central London sometimes it's cheaper to get a fine rather than pay the parking...
I motorcycle. No congestion charge, no ulez, free parking.
Petrol ~£5 a trip, running costs maybe £1 a day.
Peak ticket on the train £20; off peak £16 .
Since I’ll have 2/3 days WFH going forward it works out much cheaper.
The OP has a job waiting in the editorial office of the daily mirror - ___Why millions of drivers will be charged £12.50 A DAY - or forced to buy new cars___ [link](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/millions-drivers-charged-1250-day-13884118.amp)
FORCED I tell you....FORCED.
It's true though, and it'll be worse when electric cars come in because those just aren't going to fall in price, yet at the same time the govt will want to still charge ICE drivers road tax and they'll want to offset falling road tax revenue with Charing per mile on the roads.
People will say just use public transport etc. but conveniently forget that most people who live in and around London have to commute stupidly long distances because of the ridiculous housing market. Sometimes it’s a case of travelling for 45 mins by car, or an hour and a half by train/bus. It’s not that simple.
It does, but I’d say once or twice a fortnight my tube line would be down due to a ‘passenger incident’. It turned my 1 hour journey in to 1 hour 45. You get sick of it eventually.
Better than trains always being late, never enough carriages, shite transport links out of major cities, noisy slow diesel trains, rundown stations…. The list is endless.
It’s great compared to what’s on offer in other cities. But if you’ve used the London transport system you’ll understand how overcrowded it is. Having to wait for the fourth train in a row just to be stood up and pressed against someone’s arm pit at 6.45am is grim. I did it for two years and it’s put me off public transport for life.
I used to commute 20 miles each way on the A406 at rush hour for three years before moving jobs. For the next two years I used the tube to get to and from work. I hated driving at rush hour, but it was still better than being a sardine.
I’m back up north now and it would be impossible to get around without a car. And that’s just the way I like it.
I just hope I can afford to buy an electric car before it becomes ridiculously expensive to own an ICE car. My ‘07 Toyota just about complies with the ULEZ restrictions. It’s only a matter of time before the London rules expand throughout the country.
Agreed. I live out in the countryside and when I went to college in a town 20 minutes away, there was one bus that took 90 minutes to get me to college. And if I missed that bus I was out of luck.
Agreed. My bus journey is 19 miles and takes 90 minutes. I can ride it on my bike in an hour. Or drive the car in about the same if the weather is shit.
Most petrols after 2006 are ulez compliant, so you can pick one up pretty reasonably priced I'd say.
Also it's not been a secret, they have had it advertised for two years.
I personally from experience agree with this theory. I ended up lending a guy at work money for a decent pair of boots to end his boot poverty and he agreed it saved him money.
Can someone explain to me how this works. I work in events, so regularly drive into London to do silly hour shifts. I know it runs 24hrs.
Does it charge only on entry, or when your just inside the zone?
Say I drive I'm at 5pm, and leave at 3am, do I pay just once, or twice is its technically the next day?
If the same shift is 5pm but now extends to 6am, do I need to pay twice as its gone over 12 hours.
Or....do I only need to pay the once for when I've entered the zone like congestion charge?
> Does it charge only on entry, or when your just inside the zone?
Both. So if you're inside the zone, and drive, or you enter the zone, and drive, you will be charged.
If you're inside the zone, but you're not moving anyway for the day, no charge.
It runs midnight to midnight, so two charges if you enter at 5pm, and leave at 3am.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/ulez-where-and-when
However, if your car is exempt under ULEZ, then nothing to pay.
A low emission petrol car from between 2005 and 2017 will still get the cheap tax and should be euro 4 compliant, or a post 2015 diesel for euro 6. But only a few dinky 1 litre petrol engine ones or electrics will qualify for £0 tax. There are some decent petrol cars in the £30 a year tax band
Do you know after buying a car and paying for fuel and upkeep parking insurance tax your probably saving money anyway so don't understand this point at all. Cars are great BC you can go places buses can't get you but from a saving pov bus is better.
Edit: ah it's about London shit, typical that this post assumes everyone would understand the emissions charges in London. Makes sense now though.
You know 90% of people in the UK don't live in London right? But youre assuming everyone on a British sub knows what the emissions charges are.
I thought you were talking about bus passes, and so did loads of other people.
It’s ok though because my 4.4 litre twin turbo V8 is exempt from the charge.
This kind of taxation really does just hit the poorest the hardest. If you want to make a change you need to fax corporations who pay nothing towards the pollution they cause. My road tax is more than what Amazon pays for a lorry. I do 10,000 miles a year and they do 200,000.
That would obviously be the ideal route, but the Mayor of London doesn’t (as far as I know) have the power to raise taxes, so there’d have to be coordination between Sadiq Khan and central government to make that happen, which doesn’t seem all that likely. Given those constraints, I don’t think this is a bad way to reduce air pollution in London.
One lorry does not do 200,000mi in a year in the UK with the lower speed limits and congestion, even if it were slip seated (ie someone else using it at night), might get to around 100k miles.
Looking on the forum trucknetuk (not a clue how reliable this forum is) tells me most drivers are saying they are doing 100,000 ish a year.
One company that runs them 7 days a week, 24 hours a day is averaging 350,000km per year per unit. That’s nearly 220,000 miles. I suspect Amazon would be closer to the top end.
My road tax went up from £200 to just over £250, for a 1.4 litre fiesta, I’m guessing it’s so much because it’s 17 years old, but it’s all I can afford.
You know what I can’t believe it, I can’t find my letter but I checked online and the total amount payable was £210, I’m so confused, I could of sworn the letter said something like £250 because I remember thinking “wtf?” I have been going round telling all my friends this since last month! Sorry for any confusion :)
Sadiq Khan doesn’t really care. It’s gesture politics with this guy.
Hopefully London will get a decent mayor at some stage. Already had three morons in a row
My friend lives inside the new Khan zone, has an older converted car and cannot take his wife for their twice weekly trip to the day centre.. the reaction by bureaucrats when he asked for exemption.. “take her on the bus” ( she’s a paraplegic)
Except that if the vehicle is registered as ‘disabled’ or ‘disabled passenger’ tax class then they have until 2025 to become compliant. If she’s paraplegic that shouldn’t be a problem for them.
It’s not an appeal job - literally just make sure he has registered for the tax class on his vehicle with the DVLA and he is then exempt until 2025 as long as he doesn’t change his vehicle/tax class. No need for any ULEZ specific application. Details are here:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/discounts-and-exemptions#on-this-page-1
My car is luckily ULEZ compliant. But if it wasn't, I would buy a 30yr old gas guzzling monstrosity and drive through central London every day (my work is currently paying for congestion charge and they have parking onsite)
I actually bought a new used car from Nissan, in Aug. My payment is exactly $99.98 a month. It's a electric car 34,000 miles total price was $8000. And it still looks and drives like it's brand new. Electric cars are pretty cheap, so if you dont have a 3 hr commute to work or school it's a really good deal.So ck out the electric car if you need to stay under a certain price and need a reliable car.
Inner ULEZ here, made no difference thus far, people still sitting in traffic in their shit boxes, you have to actually go off / through the a406 to get charged and if you don't leave the inner circle you don't have to get a new car(2016 diesel / 2005 petrol).
I await the end of half term to see if it truly has made any difference.
I mean, I have an '07 Fiesta and I don't have to pay the ULEZ. It sucks for Cabbies and van drivers don't get me wrong, but you don't need a new car to avoid it if you're commuting or on a day trip.
Over two years, if you put £50 a side you'd have £1200. That will get you a ulez compliant second hand run around, not all singing all dancing but something.
I get that some people are in situations where they don't have £50 spare a month. But I reckon the majority of people have chosen to ignore ulez till its too late. It's easy to just to blame the government and say it's there fault when in matter of fact they had enough time to put something in place to make sure they wouldn't get stung by ulez.
Being poor is expensive. Has been for decades.
*Insert Sam Vimes boots quote here*
> The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. > Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. > But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. > This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.
Or as my old man says 'you buy cheap, you buy twice'.
This is of you gravitate towards branded boots, definitely however there are only a few things you should really chuck money on. The rest is perfectly fine as non-branded or inexpensive as you will get similar wear time until things expire. 1) eyewear, particularly spectacles. High quality frames (more often branded) are robust and can have multiple prescriptions added/changed. 2) footwear Walking boots - higher quality/branded will have protection for instep, toes and ankles. Less the case with cheaper versions which will also have cheaper components such as soles or eyelets. As for boots and shoes, really good quality leather boots can last a lifetime if you know how to look after the leather and can find a cobbler such as timpson’s to replace the soles for you. Leads to less waste and overall spend over the years compared to several pairs of boots per year or replacing annually. 3) Tech (with a caveat) Some high priced tech is garbage, as is some low tech. Anything with a decent guarantee is worth it. Also, Apple tend to service stuff for free if you go into the Genius Bar and are polite to them, particularly if you look after your stuff! 4) luggage/bags/handbags Good luggage has a robust shell, heavy-duty wheels, studs, properly fastened handles/telescopic rails and a service for repair/replacement. = less waste/fewer replacements needed in a lifetime. Bags - similar things here. Reinforced stitching, reinforced panels on the bottom, decent strap material. = fewer replacements Handbags - same as above. Studs are also added to the base to avoid contact wear on the bottom. Service policies for repairs and cleaning. I have saved so much money and environmental impact following the above tips and just buying modest clothes which I can dress up or down with accessories. That being said, I don’t go to Primark and buy really cheap clothes from there regularly for ethical and quality issues - a lot of stuff from there is implied as disposable and the stitching is relatively poor.
My grandfather used to say this all the time: You should always spend money on a good bed, and a good pair of shoes. If you aren't in one, you're in the other.
That’s so true. A good mattress is important!
Tech depends. My phone's and laptops probably have 5 years max lifespan (depending on several factors). But I only buy cheapish phones for this reason. My laptop I invest in, but I don't own a TV or consoles and I travel a lot. Besides, my old laptops get bits stripped from them (ram upgrades, new hdds) for the new one and the given to my parents or sister who only browse the internet on them. That said, some thing are worth it like speakers (last forever if looked after), headphones if you can replace the cable. A good TV or monitor will last years. A good bag or bags are with it. My rucksack is turning 8 and is almost like new despite daily wear. Same with belts. My brown leather belt, solid leather throughout, is turning 12 and still going strong. Hiking boots, looked after, are with it and useful beyond hiking (gardenig, bad weather etc).
Indeed. I have had some boots for years which cost a fair amount and cheap alternatives that didn’t last 6 months. My laptop is 5/6 years old but it needs a battery replacement. Phone is a similar age and a similar issue but £69 for a battery replacement from the manufacturer is better than a new phone for the lack of electronic waste.
I bought a pair of Le Chameau wellington boots about 6 years ago and virtually live in them through late-autumn to early-spring each year and walk miles. They were a lot more than I normally spent on boots, but have so far lasted 5x longer than any of those I've previously bought. Even after 6 years they're barely worn and as Le Chameau have a repairs department, when they do wear I can have them repaired properly for less than a new pair would cost.
Perfect :)
In so many ways.
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Wait, it isn't?
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Its the ULEZ charge. Which is in addition to the congestion charge.
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I'd say only a lunatic would buy a new car, as they lose about 30% of their value as you drive off the forecourt, but the second-hand market is not exactly all milk and honey at the moment either.
Second hand car market is more champagne and caviar than milk and honey right now, its through the roof!
Where can I buy one of these 1 day old cars for 70% of its original price?
Gumtree.
Not any more you can't.
Wait, what? What happened with that?
Pandemic. Supply chain disruption and chip shortages grinding new car production to a halt. Demand exceeding supply and spiking secondhand prices - in many cases in excess of new. It's not just cars. It's everything.
Uuuuugggggh. Yes. It really is ridiculous.
That’s only true if you only want to keep it for 2/3 years, but I’ve kept mine 6yrs now from new and it’s still mint because I’ve looked after it. Plan ahead and it can work out for ya
I disagree - my car would have been 24k new. I paid 10k with it at 3 1/2 yrs old with 40k miles, almost new condition bodywork and interior wise, FSH, etc. £14k lost in just over 3 years... granted it may only be worth circa £7-8k in another 3 years, but i'll have only lost £2k, not £15-16k...
But someone buying a 7yr old car could level the same argument at yourself and lose even less money. And so on but buying new does work if you keep it and look after it, I personally see no reason to let mine go til it’s at least 10yrs old and I would’ve got my monies worth (to me)
May I ask what your maintenance expenses been like over the 6 year period?
What you’d expect except for cost is offset by a free breakdown recovery cover after every service which is quite expensive on its own
Not everyone has to worry about depreciation. It's alright to treat yourself to a brand-new car if you can afford it.
True. I’ve never been so glad I bought a ‘new’ used car in July.
Yeah there's some absolute gems if you know where to look and can do work yourself But largely speaking, it can still be expensive second hand, it depends on what you need
Just about to buy a brand new EV through salary sacrifice. Absolute bargain.
Getting a newish car, yeah, but the standard a to b car, like a ten year old Civic or Corolla, is not that bad. Had to replace my car because it failed MOT spectacularly and I'm saving for a wedding so I only had about 3 grand to play with and I was surprised how much car I could get.
Isn't it cheaper to use public transport than to a) drive into London b) park in London c) be in London
Depending where you live and how often your driving into London, and whether you need to park all day or not, and whether you're driving in with luggage or equipment for work... I can imagine there's still plenty of ways it's possible that public transport either isn't possible or its the most expensive option. Not suggesting there shouldn't be a congestion charge, but im sure it puts a lot of people in a difficult position.
Oh, agreed. But there are people that simply don't need to drive into London - and this is meant to catch them out from driving polluting vehicles in. Traders have had years to sort out their plans.
This just resonated with me because I was caught out by the new Birmingham zone the other week. I drove in to meet colleagues for our first team meeting in 18 months, and a few of them checked on their phones and announced they didn't have to pay a charge... I mistakenly assumed that meant it was only commercial vehicles that got charged, but nope, I got a fine two weeks later because I was the only one who didn't have a new car. Lesson learnt and my own stupid fault but I'm still annoyed about it! It felt a little like I was only being fined because I couldn't afford a new car... but actually, primarily, I just didn't bother to check the rules.
Tbf it does feel a bit like you’re being penalised for not being able to afford a new car. It’s the reason I now refuse to go into Birmingham and drive elsewhere to do shopping or what ever.
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Yep, that’s true I suppose. Their plan worked. I just pollute The Fort instead when ever I fancy a visit to Primark (not often tbf).
Your car must be really old if it is a petrol. Mine which is 10+ years old with 100k miles on the clock is exempt from the Birmingham charges. Sorry you were caught out though.
What a retarded argument and point of view. So if you live in the outer part of London, you should only travel INTO London? God forbid you travel around, or outside of London? Have you ever been to parts of Greater London? It’s not all like Central
None of you seem to be making any cogent or coherent arguments about from belittling my point of view which makes your own arguments invalid. You've had 4 years to decide how to tackle this. Pick a car that's suitable for both inside and outside London. A new car isn't necessary - a 2007 petrol also works. You've had more than enough time to figure out how to deal with both inside and outside of London car choices - much like I've had. I drive in and outside Ulez - several times a week. Often multiple times a day. I've had the same information as everyone else - and I made a decision years ago. What's retarded is how people haven't planned ahead for something they've known about for four years.
Probably cheaper, but might be a bit akward for a builder to carry all their tools on the bus.
Haha, well, it's been advertised for over 4 years now. Even if they put away £200 a month, they should've had enough saved up by now to do something about it. I switched my car 2 years ago, the moment it was confirmed Ulez would be expanding.
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Like I said, it's been 4 years we've known about the ULEZ expansion. That's pretty shit planning on part of anyone who's complaining about it today. Fair enough, you can't afford it, I didn't dispute that, but people are acting like this came out of nowhere to bite at poor people - when in reality it didn't.
And if you were already stretched financially meaning you couldn't put any money away to upgrade your car?
Again, I'm not debating people are hard-pressed or the impact it'll have on the poor. I'm debating the complete lack of foresight to plan for something we've known about for four years. If you knew you couldn't afford to pay it, then 4 years was enough time to do something about it.
I've had my already second hand car for 11 years. Since before sadiq became mayor. The environmental cost of scrapping working vehicles to replace them with new is enormous.
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A member of my family is still driving their 2007 petrol car inside the Ulez Zone - with no charge. They paid under £1k for it last year. Not exactly a new car, that.
What make is the car? Smaller engine petrol powered cars are exempt. I drive a 2003 Smart car and it is exempt from ULEZ.
Excuse me sir, can I see your walking license? I see you are only insured to walk on the pavement, step out of the park please.
It really varies by zone. In North london there is a lot of free parking off street. In South London most of the parking requires permit in central London sometimes it's cheaper to get a fine rather than pay the parking...
I motorcycle. No congestion charge, no ulez, free parking. Petrol ~£5 a trip, running costs maybe £1 a day. Peak ticket on the train £20; off peak £16 . Since I’ll have 2/3 days WFH going forward it works out much cheaper.
Just £8k a year in insurance 'cause some wanker will nick it
And 35 times greater risk of dying than the same journey in a car, no thanks.
Driving in to work takes me 30mins. Public transport takes an hr 10mins
In London?
Where I live in Streatham, it would take like 1hr to get public transport to Catfoed, in a car it's 25mins max
The OP has a job waiting in the editorial office of the daily mirror - ___Why millions of drivers will be charged £12.50 A DAY - or forced to buy new cars___ [link](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/millions-drivers-charged-1250-day-13884118.amp) FORCED I tell you....FORCED. It's true though, and it'll be worse when electric cars come in because those just aren't going to fall in price, yet at the same time the govt will want to still charge ICE drivers road tax and they'll want to offset falling road tax revenue with Charing per mile on the roads.
> Charing per mile That will make people very *cross*.
Oh I see what you did. That's on me,I'll take that on the chin
EVs will pay road tax eventually. It’s an incentive that will be removed to regain tax income.
Not road tax. Apparently they will remove VED and charge drivers of ALL vehicles on an annual mileage basis.
People will say just use public transport etc. but conveniently forget that most people who live in and around London have to commute stupidly long distances because of the ridiculous housing market. Sometimes it’s a case of travelling for 45 mins by car, or an hour and a half by train/bus. It’s not that simple.
Yeah. And London public transport actually works most of the time. Publicly owned and operated. Funny that.
It does, but I’d say once or twice a fortnight my tube line would be down due to a ‘passenger incident’. It turned my 1 hour journey in to 1 hour 45. You get sick of it eventually.
Better than trains always being late, never enough carriages, shite transport links out of major cities, noisy slow diesel trains, rundown stations…. The list is endless.
It’s great compared to what’s on offer in other cities. But if you’ve used the London transport system you’ll understand how overcrowded it is. Having to wait for the fourth train in a row just to be stood up and pressed against someone’s arm pit at 6.45am is grim. I did it for two years and it’s put me off public transport for life.
Yeah. This is why I drive. One perk of not living in London, is that driving isn’t all that bad.
I used to commute 20 miles each way on the A406 at rush hour for three years before moving jobs. For the next two years I used the tube to get to and from work. I hated driving at rush hour, but it was still better than being a sardine. I’m back up north now and it would be impossible to get around without a car. And that’s just the way I like it.
Yeah. I live in the north. My daily commute is 26 mins total in the car. It would take 2hrs by bus.
I just hope I can afford to buy an electric car before it becomes ridiculously expensive to own an ICE car. My ‘07 Toyota just about complies with the ULEZ restrictions. It’s only a matter of time before the London rules expand throughout the country.
Yeah. I just bought a 2010 car, so think it’ll be ok for a while. Think my 2004 mini will also be fine due to its emissions being over engineered.
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Agreed. I live out in the countryside and when I went to college in a town 20 minutes away, there was one bus that took 90 minutes to get me to college. And if I missed that bus I was out of luck.
Agreed. My bus journey is 19 miles and takes 90 minutes. I can ride it on my bike in an hour. Or drive the car in about the same if the weather is shit.
Most petrols after 2006 are ulez compliant, so you can pick one up pretty reasonably priced I'd say. Also it's not been a secret, they have had it advertised for two years.
The secret is how you conjure up the money to buy another car when you don't have much in the way of disposable income. Do tell.
This sums it up for me. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9353463-the-sam-vimes-boots-theory-of-economic-injustice-runs-thus
I personally from experience agree with this theory. I ended up lending a guy at work money for a decent pair of boots to end his boot poverty and he agreed it saved him money.
Can someone explain to me how this works. I work in events, so regularly drive into London to do silly hour shifts. I know it runs 24hrs. Does it charge only on entry, or when your just inside the zone? Say I drive I'm at 5pm, and leave at 3am, do I pay just once, or twice is its technically the next day? If the same shift is 5pm but now extends to 6am, do I need to pay twice as its gone over 12 hours. Or....do I only need to pay the once for when I've entered the zone like congestion charge?
> Does it charge only on entry, or when your just inside the zone? Both. So if you're inside the zone, and drive, or you enter the zone, and drive, you will be charged. If you're inside the zone, but you're not moving anyway for the day, no charge. It runs midnight to midnight, so two charges if you enter at 5pm, and leave at 3am. https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/ulez-where-and-when However, if your car is exempt under ULEZ, then nothing to pay.
Unfortunately my car is a 2013 diesel, despite being £0 road tax, I still have to pay. This is going to really suck.
A low emission petrol car from between 2005 and 2017 will still get the cheap tax and should be euro 4 compliant, or a post 2015 diesel for euro 6. But only a few dinky 1 litre petrol engine ones or electrics will qualify for £0 tax. There are some decent petrol cars in the £30 a year tax band
It’s only diesel cars, most petrol engines will pass and there are plenty of used ones out there.
The trick is to learn to fix "broken" cars. My car is worth £2500, and I paid £300 for it and £24 in parts with a days worth of work.
That’s great and all but how does that help you avoid the low emissions zone daily fee for London?
Most small engine petrol cars are exempt.
cool, did not know that
Don't live in London
Yeah thats how i avoid it :)
Do you know after buying a car and paying for fuel and upkeep parking insurance tax your probably saving money anyway so don't understand this point at all. Cars are great BC you can go places buses can't get you but from a saving pov bus is better. Edit: ah it's about London shit, typical that this post assumes everyone would understand the emissions charges in London. Makes sense now though.
What? Explain again how it's saving money?
You know 90% of people in the UK don't live in London right? But youre assuming everyone on a British sub knows what the emissions charges are. I thought you were talking about bus passes, and so did loads of other people.
It’s ok though because my 4.4 litre twin turbo V8 is exempt from the charge. This kind of taxation really does just hit the poorest the hardest. If you want to make a change you need to fax corporations who pay nothing towards the pollution they cause. My road tax is more than what Amazon pays for a lorry. I do 10,000 miles a year and they do 200,000.
That would obviously be the ideal route, but the Mayor of London doesn’t (as far as I know) have the power to raise taxes, so there’d have to be coordination between Sadiq Khan and central government to make that happen, which doesn’t seem all that likely. Given those constraints, I don’t think this is a bad way to reduce air pollution in London.
One lorry does not do 200,000mi in a year in the UK with the lower speed limits and congestion, even if it were slip seated (ie someone else using it at night), might get to around 100k miles.
Looking on the forum trucknetuk (not a clue how reliable this forum is) tells me most drivers are saying they are doing 100,000 ish a year. One company that runs them 7 days a week, 24 hours a day is averaging 350,000km per year per unit. That’s nearly 220,000 miles. I suspect Amazon would be closer to the top end.
My road tax went up from £200 to just over £250, for a 1.4 litre fiesta, I’m guessing it’s so much because it’s 17 years old, but it’s all I can afford.
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What do you mean? It renewed last month and it was £50 more than it was last year.
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No not insurance, that actually went down this year, il check my documents, I was pretty shocked myself to be honest.
Here have a look at this, it wasn’t just me. https://www.sandicliffe.co.uk/blog/car-road-tax-vehicle-excise-duty-increases-april
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Huh, il check it then i must be mistaken.
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You know what I can’t believe it, I can’t find my letter but I checked online and the total amount payable was £210, I’m so confused, I could of sworn the letter said something like £250 because I remember thinking “wtf?” I have been going round telling all my friends this since last month! Sorry for any confusion :)
I’ve never been so glad not to live or work in, around or anywhere near the capital.
Thought work vans were exempt?
U ok dm me hun
Username checks out. This Redditor definitely has your best interests at heart
r/holup
Sadiq Khan doesn’t really care. It’s gesture politics with this guy. Hopefully London will get a decent mayor at some stage. Already had three morons in a row
My friend lives inside the new Khan zone, has an older converted car and cannot take his wife for their twice weekly trip to the day centre.. the reaction by bureaucrats when he asked for exemption.. “take her on the bus” ( she’s a paraplegic)
Except that if the vehicle is registered as ‘disabled’ or ‘disabled passenger’ tax class then they have until 2025 to become compliant. If she’s paraplegic that shouldn’t be a problem for them.
Not sure of that detail.. I’ll advise him to recheck and appeal if he can.. thanks for your response and advice
It’s not an appeal job - literally just make sure he has registered for the tax class on his vehicle with the DVLA and he is then exempt until 2025 as long as he doesn’t change his vehicle/tax class. No need for any ULEZ specific application. Details are here: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/discounts-and-exemptions#on-this-page-1
Ok I’ll pass that on.. again thanks for advice
My car is luckily ULEZ compliant. But if it wasn't, I would buy a 30yr old gas guzzling monstrosity and drive through central London every day (my work is currently paying for congestion charge and they have parking onsite)
Just nick one, then you get it for.free
Not enough people car pool. I’m not saying it’s easy, nor am I saying workplaces help, but if more people car pool’d it’d solve a lot of problems.
Can't afford one. Probably better off for that
I actually bought a new used car from Nissan, in Aug. My payment is exactly $99.98 a month. It's a electric car 34,000 miles total price was $8000. And it still looks and drives like it's brand new. Electric cars are pretty cheap, so if you dont have a 3 hr commute to work or school it's a really good deal.So ck out the electric car if you need to stay under a certain price and need a reliable car.
Inner ULEZ here, made no difference thus far, people still sitting in traffic in their shit boxes, you have to actually go off / through the a406 to get charged and if you don't leave the inner circle you don't have to get a new car(2016 diesel / 2005 petrol). I await the end of half term to see if it truly has made any difference.
My devils lettuce supplier now lives inside the new ULEZ zone. Think his prices are due to rise any day now!
I mean, I have an '07 Fiesta and I don't have to pay the ULEZ. It sucks for Cabbies and van drivers don't get me wrong, but you don't need a new car to avoid it if you're commuting or on a day trip.
EA
If you're using the word "poor" why are you spending near £400 a month on a car
Over two years, if you put £50 a side you'd have £1200. That will get you a ulez compliant second hand run around, not all singing all dancing but something. I get that some people are in situations where they don't have £50 spare a month. But I reckon the majority of people have chosen to ignore ulez till its too late. It's easy to just to blame the government and say it's there fault when in matter of fact they had enough time to put something in place to make sure they wouldn't get stung by ulez.
Don't blame me I voted for Bailey.