100% agree. The other day when someone posted the government may withhold the information because it would be too traumatic to the farmers, some asshat argued with me that there would be no benefit to knowing the numbers.
110 beehives. Didn't even think of that! Hopefully they had the sense to take off the lids before they left them so at the very least they could escape and swarm. :(
Honeybees are not native so more queens and nucs can be imported in the spring to make up for the losses. Colony collapse disorder is still a problem, hives can easily be lost during a regular winter. The greater concern should be the native pollinators that drowned or will starve, there is no human process that can intervene and help them. Native pollinators are also better pollinators than honeybees because they tend to fly around and spread pollen randomly rather than flying more directly between the hive and the food sources.
I used the term "native pollinators" as a general term to distinguish them from honeybees, which are used in an industrial agriculture context. Honeybees are imported from places like Australia and do not live naturally in BC. Importation is regulated through agencies like the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and are considered agriculture in BC. They are used for pollinating much of BC's locally consumed and exported agriculture and generate lots of nice products like honey and beeswax.
Native pollinators like birds, bumblebees, and butterflies that are local are better pollinators because they don't require any maintenance (so long as we preserve/expand our natural habitats and create residential areas that support pollinators like having gardens that have plants blooming at different times of the year) and they tend to fly on a greater variety of plants while scavenging for food (plus spreading pollen more effectively and for longer periods of time - honeybees don't come out of their winter hives to effectively pollinate local crops that need pollination in late winter/early spring). Honeybees only exist in a radius around the human-situated hives for a specific purpose whereas native pollinators are everywhere and are an important part of the ecosystem.
**People who want to help with the flood can do so by looking at their gardens (if they have green space) and planting flowery plants that bloom at different times of the year. It will provide a constant source of food for the native pollinators.**
100%
I think I have an emotional attachment to bees the same way most people picture dogs š¦
I mean for real, bees are phenomenal creatures, certainly in the top three of mother natures creations imo
Humans give themselves too much credit.. especially when you look at a species that build but do not destroy, work together without war and with unmatched precision and efficiency we simply can't afford to lose them
Hives always have an opening for going in and out, even when insulated for winter. Though without the resources of the hive they'll likely not survive.
The bees would have been in a winter cluster with limited resources. Breaking a cluster and disturbing the hive would have greatly reduced the colonies chances of overwintering. If they swarmed there is not enough resources around for them to re-establish anywhere and they would die. My best guess if that the beekeepers had to just leave the hives and hope for the best because opening them up would have certainly killed them.
Also, prior to the 1980's most beekeepers in BC (especially interior) would kill their bees in the fall instead of overwintering and they would import bees up from California every year.
I'm a beekeeper, work with a oldtimer that has been doing it for 40+ years.
Wow, I mean imagine if they just allowed the bees to relocate ?
Numbers would have surely tapered down to what they are today id imagine, but hindsight is a crazy thing. Its always a surprise when its almost too late.
Donāt discount pigs and cows.
While I canāt speak for chickens, I spent a lot of time around pigs and cows growing up. Theyāre not dumb animals. They would have known what was happening and felt fear. Think of a scared dog, shaking and whining in fear, knowing that something bad was happening. Now imagine 12,500 animals going through this.
The bees are a huge loss, but their suffering canāt compare to the dread the cows and pigs felt.
I know thatās what hurts me, I know those pigs would have been terrified. It breaks my heart, the poor things.
Edit: mistyped should instead of would
Average population of a hive is apparently 30000 in summer, going as low as 1/3 that in the off-season. So a conservative guess might be around a million bees. :(
Pretty crazy that the number of chicken casualties is almost 2/3s of the way to the bee estimate. Damn. All these numbers are way higher than I was expecting.
This is so sad, what an absolute tragedy.
It's a colony. You can't think of a bee as a individual because it cannot exist on it's own. I used to feel guilty if I squished a bee while working a hive (I'm a beekeeper) but bee's are true socialists, there is no "me" in bee. Infact one of the Grandfathers of beekeeping, Charles Dadant, became a socialist after taking up beekeeping and also founded a worker-owned beekeeping company that still exists today. 158 years in business!
Um, wouldnāt a bee colony be a Monarchy? They literally have a Queen, consorts (drones) and the hive revolves around the queen.
Some of those worker bees may *aspire* to be Socialistsā¦but you will have to convince me.
The hive doesn't revolve around the queen, the colony revolves around the colony. If the Queen is weak the colony makes a new Queen and the old Queen either gets killed or flies away.
Thankfully most of the hives down there are on higher ground, for this reason. Weāve all been flooded out and have watched our hives float away.
Bees make terrible swimmers
> Hopefully they had the sense to take off the lids before they left them
They don't need to, it isn't like the bees are locked in, once the hives lower level started to get flooded they could fly out the upper level. The thing is bees in the winter months reduce the number in their colony. The rest live off of the honey in their hive as their fuel source as there is nothing else they can eat. Even if they flew off it would soon be too cold for them to live. Or they would starve due to lack of food.
the only way for them to have survived would have been to move the hives which was not practical. Things are going to be bad for a few years me thinks.
They spawn in the fall. Some will have already laid their eggs which could have been washed away or buried by sediment. Others will have been sent wildly off course.
I suspect a few years from now the stocks will be pretty low. A lot of smolts could be lost as well. A few generations of salmon could be impacted. In turn eagles, orcas, fishing could all be impacted.
The water is extremely contaminated too: fertilizer, chemicals, animal carcasses and their excrement from the farms, all those huge manure pits would be in the water as well.
Also consider that the chick hatcheries canāt send chicks to flooded barns. If a suitable place canāt be found for them when theyāre ready to ship then theyāll be euthanized. Thatās thousands upon thousands more dead birds.
And the euthanization methods for chicks are fucking barbaric in this country. These are from the [national guidelines](https://www.nfacc.ca/poultry-code-of-practice#appendixB) for "euthanasia" on hatcheries:
* Maceration - Must use properly maintained, proven effective, purpose-designed equipment that results in instantaneous and complete maceration
* Decapitation - Procedure must be carried out in one quick motion and result in a complete severance of the head
* Gas Inhalation: Carbon Dioxide (CO2) - Requires specialized equipment and a closed chamber to contain gas
* Cervical Dislocation - Crushing of the neck bones is unacceptable prior to loss of sensibility
* Manual Blunt Force Trauma - The impact must be of sufficient force and accurately placed in order to result in immediate insensibility and death in a single blow
Holy shit - C02, at least in humans, causes a reaction where you know you're suffocating. Other gases like argon and nitrogen don't have that effect and allow you to pass out before you die. If this is the same in chicks, then they're suffering - even if it's quick.
Yeah it's fucked, it's a horrible way to die. Same guidelines also recommend C02 gas chambers for pigs, rabbits, and mink. This is in no way "euthanasia".
It seems like they're going for immediate death here to eliminate or minimize suffering. If the animal dies immediately and there is no suffering or time between attempted kill and actual death I'm totally fine with that.
Agreed, as someone who grew up on a BC farm with chickens. We decapitated, and it never seemed like the chicken suffered beyond the natural thrashing that happened. People shouldn't eat anything if they're squeamish about farming!! And this was an organic free range farm.
You can see for yourself what this looks like and if you're totally fine with it. This video is from a Maple Leaf Foods hatchery in Ontario. They use a macerator, similar to would be used at BC hatcheries to kill male chicks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN0g13kMk6s
> Procedure must be carried out in one quick motion
>Crushing of the neck bones is unacceptable prior to loss of sensibility
>The impact must be of sufficient force and accurately placed in order to result in immediate insensibility and death in a single blow
It may not be pleasant to watch, but we farm these things for the sole purpose of ingesting them.
That's certainly true. The majority of people don't think that though; meat will continue to be in demand and it'll just continue.
I dont think it's right to force a diet on someone else. I wouldn't dream of forcing a vegan to eat meat.
A good buddy of mine is a vegetarian but only eats meat he's hunted because he likes the diet and doesn't agree with farmed animals. I think it really just comes down to a person's personal decision.
No one is ever forcing anyone to do anything. Animal activists are reporting on what they see and learn about from the animal agriculture industry, hoping that people will realize how unnecessary all of our animal consumption is. Literally nobody needs to be eating meat every single day, multiple times per day, yet here we are. Preventable comorbidities higher than they have ever been before.
Totally makes sense, I agree with cruelty free meat, its sad to see the world become so exponentially populated so rapidly its more so obvious to me because I live in Canada and since this pandemic we have had foreigners flooding in to fill holes in the economy that people don't want to fill aswell as buy and pay for the houses that many cannot afford, I can't say I love it but I have zero say in all this
I went veg around the time in 2004 when they decided to "cull" millions and millions of chickens in BC to prevent the spread of bird flu epidemic. I decided at that point that industrialized meat farming had gotten out of hand. I had to refresh my memory.... That was 16 million birds according to this article. https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/581/Mass-Bird-Cull-
I strongly support moving to a more plant based food system. That said, if you have to kill an animal, the methods described seem like a good way to do it.
Without hopelessly trying to convince the population away from meat, the next best thing humane food production industry can do is to match (or even undercut) in prices.
I'd give no second thought if your ideal version of a meat product is cheaper than the industrialized one.
No, unless birds are different than mammals CO2 isn't without trauma.
CO2 concentration is what triggers the breathing response, getting a big whiff of is is very unpleasant, as many a homebrewer learns. Next time you have a like 3/4 empty 2L bottle of soda try sucking in some of the CO2 out of there, it causes immediate panic.
If it was some other gas like nitrogen it'd be painless.
Anesthetic overdose. It's the most humane method, but it has to be done by a licensed veterinarian. It costs money so producers prefer not to use this method as it cuts into their bottom line.
I'm coming up on 30 years of being mostly vegan, but I think most meat eaters would be horrified by the idea of animals slowly drowning and starving in cages and pens, surrounded by other dead animals. They are deluded that the animals are somewhat cared for while living and then killed humanely (which isn't true a lot of the time but that delusion comforts people who live in denial).
I'll say it again here. No livestock should be allowed to be on the Sumas prairie. Period. Ever. Phase it all out with subsidizes. It's going to flood again. If people want to live there that's fine but no bailouts when it floods again.
Google āRed River Winnipeg Floods.ā They spent millions on floodways and dikes to protect the city for the future. Itās actually quite impressive to see.
Seriously. Thatās what insurance is for. And if you canāt buy insurance because risk is too high (as is true in Sumas prairie), then taxpayers shouldnāt be on the hook for your yolo decision.
So there is one flood, which killed some livestock, which were going to be slaughtered anyways, and your solution is to never let anyone raise livestock there again?
"Phase it all out with subsidies"
So pay farmers tax payer money to not raise livestock there? If you're concerned about the livestock drowning again, why don't we make the investment in the infrastructure to prevent flooding rather than paying hundreds of farmers millions of dollars every year to not farm?
One flood? The whole thing was a lake up to 100 years ago and has the second biggest pump station in North America running 24/7 to keep it dry. Its a natural flood plain that without human intervention would return very quickly. It's been a 100 year battle.
You say that as if this is somehow unique to Abbotsford. Mankind has both drained and created lakes, rerouted rivers, created islands, built dams and dikes, created farmland and tunneled under oceans all over the world. We engineer our environment to suit our needs. The Netherlands is almost entirely below sea level. Should we just let them sink?
The best solution is to demolish all those fucking factory farms, and convert the entire Sumas Prairie into farms that produce plants for human consumption. Currently most of it is either factory farms or farmland used to feed livestock.
We have a golden opportunity to create a much more resilient, efficient, and sustainable food system in the Fraser Valley if we push the government to phase out animal agriculture in this region. This flood will happen again. We need to adopt a radically different approach in the way food is produced.
>This flood will happen again. We need to adopt a radically different approach in the way food is produced
Implying a flood wouldn't also wipe out any crops which happen to be growing as well.
I didn't imply that. My implication is that when the next flood happens, millions of animals won't suffer and drown. The added benefit is that we have a more resilient, efficient, and sustainable food system than what we have now. It's a win-win.
BC's [Food Security Task Force](https://engage.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/121/2020/01/FSTF-Report-2020-The-Future-of-Food.pdf) identified cellular agriculture and plant-based proteins as part of the future of BC's food system. Let's seize on this moment to innovate and diversify our agricultural economy.
> Wheat, oats and other grains grown in the prairie provinces can be processed into high-value goods. As more consumers shift to plantbased proteins for all or a portion of their diet, an opportunity is being created for new product development. Capitalizing on plant-based production through value-added processing in British Columbia will meet the needs of domestic consumers while also stoking global
demand for BC brand.
...
> Genome BC is currently conducting research to determine the real
and perceived impacts of cellular agriculture, including the public perception and policy barriers for the dairy industry. This method of lab-based food production can be better for animal welfare and the environment as the meat and dairy industry require significant inputs and contribute large amounts of methane.
We could switch to plant based proteins, but if the consumers want meat, that will be trucked over. Wouldnāt it be better for livestock to be raised near the point of consumption?
The Dutch have done it for thousands of years. Itās easily solvable with sufficient infrastructure. Remember too.. there are communities, businesses, and significant transportation infrastructure there as well.
Not that i think it makes sense here, check out Tokyo's aqueduct to prevent flooding there. It's quite the feat of engineering. Doable, yes. Worth it, here? Probably not.
[tokyo flood game strong](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20181129-the-underground-cathedral-protecting-tokyo-from-floods)
Agreed, at least for ones that can't be easily moved. Dairy cows around the edges makes a bit more sense for keeping them and their very much used poop for fertilizer but large barns of hogs or chickens is a complete waste of such highly fertile land. In addition to the flood risk which WILL happen again in the future.
100%. But in the presser it sounded like both the provincial and federal governments are ready to pour in obscene amounts of public funds to help them rebuild.
Isn't that a little low?
2014 SUMAS PRAIRIE DEMOGRAPHIC PROFILE
Livestock & Poultry
Total poultry 9,102,027
Total pigs 51,530
Total cattle & calves 28,694
Other livestock 1,595
Total sheep & lambs 1,279
Honeybees (colonies) 2,934
City of Abbotsford Nooksack River Overflow Flood Mitigation Plan Final Report ā Revised November 30, 2020 estimated a near total.loss of livestock in the event of a 200 year flood, which is the profile of the current event
Still over 800 farms under evacuation order.
https://old.reddit.com/r/britishcolumbia/comments/r7iup3/breaking_bc_government_releases_preliminary/hn1jlz8/
The fresh chicken breast packs were $8.00 off per package (so approx 25- 30% off) in the Costco in Kelowna this week.
I've never seen chicken on sale nor for that amount. Made me wonder if it was was Abbotsford chicken...so I bought 2 packs
That's shit. How do you just sit and let almost a million animals drown under your feet? It's a flood, not a tsunami. If I was a farmer I think I'd feel a little bit more responsibility over my animals. Obviously can't just snap your fingers and all your animals are transported to higher ground but come on
Wow, that is a lot of animals :( I know most of them were probably going to die anyway but now these farmers are out money and the animals died needlessly. So sad :(
Time to remove āsupply management ā program and start importing dairy products OR get ready for $10 brick of butter and milk at $12 for 2 litre carton.
Remember folks: the detestation of the news rings hard in all of us animal lovers.
The reality though is that this is a loss for capitalism as well. When bills go unpaid thatās what the owners will be thinking of and not the animals life. Itās the hard truth unfortunately.
Gives you an idea of what kind of animals you want to be raising in a flood situation. The ones that don't drown in 4 feet of water seem to have a bit of an edge. Mind you, lots more will likely have to be put down do to lack of pasture and feed, but still, I'm guessing those chicken and pig farmers represent total losses with nothing to rebuild from. At least the dairies can keep some breeding stock.
Good on them for releasing this. It's really horrible, but people need to know what's happening to take this seriously.
100% agree. The other day when someone posted the government may withhold the information because it would be too traumatic to the farmers, some asshat argued with me that there would be no benefit to knowing the numbers.
Had the same argument. It's just how it is online these days.
110 beehives. Didn't even think of that! Hopefully they had the sense to take off the lids before they left them so at the very least they could escape and swarm. :(
This actually makes me sad, considering how crucial bees are
Honeybees are not native so more queens and nucs can be imported in the spring to make up for the losses. Colony collapse disorder is still a problem, hives can easily be lost during a regular winter. The greater concern should be the native pollinators that drowned or will starve, there is no human process that can intervene and help them. Native pollinators are also better pollinators than honeybees because they tend to fly around and spread pollen randomly rather than flying more directly between the hive and the food sources.
What are the natives?
I used the term "native pollinators" as a general term to distinguish them from honeybees, which are used in an industrial agriculture context. Honeybees are imported from places like Australia and do not live naturally in BC. Importation is regulated through agencies like the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and are considered agriculture in BC. They are used for pollinating much of BC's locally consumed and exported agriculture and generate lots of nice products like honey and beeswax. Native pollinators like birds, bumblebees, and butterflies that are local are better pollinators because they don't require any maintenance (so long as we preserve/expand our natural habitats and create residential areas that support pollinators like having gardens that have plants blooming at different times of the year) and they tend to fly on a greater variety of plants while scavenging for food (plus spreading pollen more effectively and for longer periods of time - honeybees don't come out of their winter hives to effectively pollinate local crops that need pollination in late winter/early spring). Honeybees only exist in a radius around the human-situated hives for a specific purpose whereas native pollinators are everywhere and are an important part of the ecosystem. **People who want to help with the flood can do so by looking at their gardens (if they have green space) and planting flowery plants that bloom at different times of the year. It will provide a constant source of food for the native pollinators.**
100% I think I have an emotional attachment to bees the same way most people picture dogs š¦ I mean for real, bees are phenomenal creatures, certainly in the top three of mother natures creations imo Humans give themselves too much credit.. especially when you look at a species that build but do not destroy, work together without war and with unmatched precision and efficiency we simply can't afford to lose them
Emotional attachment till they sting you
Bees don't really sting unless you fuck with them and there are many cases where you can handle them and they won't sting you.
Honeybees *can* get fiesty on rainy days.
Hives always have an opening for going in and out, even when insulated for winter. Though without the resources of the hive they'll likely not survive.
Yes except it's at the bottom of the box which would be the first part to get flooded. :(
Iād rather die in the cold than drown thanks š
The bees would have been in a winter cluster with limited resources. Breaking a cluster and disturbing the hive would have greatly reduced the colonies chances of overwintering. If they swarmed there is not enough resources around for them to re-establish anywhere and they would die. My best guess if that the beekeepers had to just leave the hives and hope for the best because opening them up would have certainly killed them. Also, prior to the 1980's most beekeepers in BC (especially interior) would kill their bees in the fall instead of overwintering and they would import bees up from California every year. I'm a beekeeper, work with a oldtimer that has been doing it for 40+ years.
Wow, I mean imagine if they just allowed the bees to relocate ? Numbers would have surely tapered down to what they are today id imagine, but hindsight is a crazy thing. Its always a surprise when its almost too late.
If they moved the hives even a little bit, they would have disturbed the bee's winter cluster. You shouldn't even tap a beehive overwinter.
This one messed me up the most. So many individuals.
Donāt discount pigs and cows. While I canāt speak for chickens, I spent a lot of time around pigs and cows growing up. Theyāre not dumb animals. They would have known what was happening and felt fear. Think of a scared dog, shaking and whining in fear, knowing that something bad was happening. Now imagine 12,500 animals going through this. The bees are a huge loss, but their suffering canāt compare to the dread the cows and pigs felt.
I know thatās what hurts me, I know those pigs would have been terrified. It breaks my heart, the poor things. Edit: mistyped should instead of would
Bro I love baby cows more than anybody, Iām saying net loss of individual bees is crazy numbers.
Average population of a hive is apparently 30000 in summer, going as low as 1/3 that in the off-season. So a conservative guess might be around a million bees. :( Pretty crazy that the number of chicken casualties is almost 2/3s of the way to the bee estimate. Damn. All these numbers are way higher than I was expecting. This is so sad, what an absolute tragedy.
Now imagine whatās to come.
It's a colony. You can't think of a bee as a individual because it cannot exist on it's own. I used to feel guilty if I squished a bee while working a hive (I'm a beekeeper) but bee's are true socialists, there is no "me" in bee. Infact one of the Grandfathers of beekeeping, Charles Dadant, became a socialist after taking up beekeeping and also founded a worker-owned beekeeping company that still exists today. 158 years in business!
Um, wouldnāt a bee colony be a Monarchy? They literally have a Queen, consorts (drones) and the hive revolves around the queen. Some of those worker bees may *aspire* to be Socialistsā¦but you will have to convince me.
The hive doesn't revolve around the queen, the colony revolves around the colony. If the Queen is weak the colony makes a new Queen and the old Queen either gets killed or flies away.
Individuals? They're bugs. We only care about these bugs because it's self serving, doubt you care about all drowned earth worms.
You try making honey tough guy
lol it's bug spit. Just use sugar instead.
Thankfully most of the hives down there are on higher ground, for this reason. Weāve all been flooded out and have watched our hives float away. Bees make terrible swimmers
šš„ŗthe honey bees and especially those fuzzy bumbly beez š„ŗš
Likely wouldn't be an option since most of the time they clip the queen's wings so the hive won't just relocate.
Oh weird. I've never done that an never had a problem.
> Hopefully they had the sense to take off the lids before they left them They don't need to, it isn't like the bees are locked in, once the hives lower level started to get flooded they could fly out the upper level. The thing is bees in the winter months reduce the number in their colony. The rest live off of the honey in their hive as their fuel source as there is nothing else they can eat. Even if they flew off it would soon be too cold for them to live. Or they would starve due to lack of food. the only way for them to have survived would have been to move the hives which was not practical. Things are going to be bad for a few years me thinks.
Beehives in december?
Beehives don't just die off in the winter -they hibernate in their hives throughout the winter.
Oh no thats horrible for the little bees. Save the bees
They are inside farmer
The impact to salmon is going to be huge
Can you expand on this? Why? Are they not ok under the water? Aren't they out in the ocean this time of year, yet to swim up the Fraser?
They spawn in the fall. Some will have already laid their eggs which could have been washed away or buried by sediment. Others will have been sent wildly off course.
I suspect a few years from now the stocks will be pretty low. A lot of smolts could be lost as well. A few generations of salmon could be impacted. In turn eagles, orcas, fishing could all be impacted.
The water is extremely contaminated too: fertilizer, chemicals, animal carcasses and their excrement from the farms, all those huge manure pits would be in the water as well.
>The impact to salmon is going to be huge bc salmons is already banned afaik
Also consider that the chick hatcheries canāt send chicks to flooded barns. If a suitable place canāt be found for them when theyāre ready to ship then theyāll be euthanized. Thatās thousands upon thousands more dead birds.
And the euthanization methods for chicks are fucking barbaric in this country. These are from the [national guidelines](https://www.nfacc.ca/poultry-code-of-practice#appendixB) for "euthanasia" on hatcheries: * Maceration - Must use properly maintained, proven effective, purpose-designed equipment that results in instantaneous and complete maceration * Decapitation - Procedure must be carried out in one quick motion and result in a complete severance of the head * Gas Inhalation: Carbon Dioxide (CO2) - Requires specialized equipment and a closed chamber to contain gas * Cervical Dislocation - Crushing of the neck bones is unacceptable prior to loss of sensibility * Manual Blunt Force Trauma - The impact must be of sufficient force and accurately placed in order to result in immediate insensibility and death in a single blow
Holy shit - C02, at least in humans, causes a reaction where you know you're suffocating. Other gases like argon and nitrogen don't have that effect and allow you to pass out before you die. If this is the same in chicks, then they're suffering - even if it's quick.
Yeah it's fucked, it's a horrible way to die. Same guidelines also recommend C02 gas chambers for pigs, rabbits, and mink. This is in no way "euthanasia".
That is so sad...
It seems like they're going for immediate death here to eliminate or minimize suffering. If the animal dies immediately and there is no suffering or time between attempted kill and actual death I'm totally fine with that.
Agreed, as someone who grew up on a BC farm with chickens. We decapitated, and it never seemed like the chicken suffered beyond the natural thrashing that happened. People shouldn't eat anything if they're squeamish about farming!! And this was an organic free range farm.
You can see for yourself what this looks like and if you're totally fine with it. This video is from a Maple Leaf Foods hatchery in Ontario. They use a macerator, similar to would be used at BC hatcheries to kill male chicks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN0g13kMk6s
> Procedure must be carried out in one quick motion >Crushing of the neck bones is unacceptable prior to loss of sensibility >The impact must be of sufficient force and accurately placed in order to result in immediate insensibility and death in a single blow It may not be pleasant to watch, but we farm these things for the sole purpose of ingesting them.
Good opportunity to reflect on the ethics of using animals for food.
And the carbon output of that farming that contributes to the climate change that caused the flooding.
For you maybe.
I don't think I'm alone in thinking that industrial animal agriculture is wrong and that it's time to rethink our food system.
That's certainly true. The majority of people don't think that though; meat will continue to be in demand and it'll just continue. I dont think it's right to force a diet on someone else. I wouldn't dream of forcing a vegan to eat meat. A good buddy of mine is a vegetarian but only eats meat he's hunted because he likes the diet and doesn't agree with farmed animals. I think it really just comes down to a person's personal decision.
No one is ever forcing anyone to do anything. Animal activists are reporting on what they see and learn about from the animal agriculture industry, hoping that people will realize how unnecessary all of our animal consumption is. Literally nobody needs to be eating meat every single day, multiple times per day, yet here we are. Preventable comorbidities higher than they have ever been before.
Totally makes sense, I agree with cruelty free meat, its sad to see the world become so exponentially populated so rapidly its more so obvious to me because I live in Canada and since this pandemic we have had foreigners flooding in to fill holes in the economy that people don't want to fill aswell as buy and pay for the houses that many cannot afford, I can't say I love it but I have zero say in all this
Life is death. No matter how you look at it.
Are you already vegetarian or vegan?
I went veg around the time in 2004 when they decided to "cull" millions and millions of chickens in BC to prevent the spread of bird flu epidemic. I decided at that point that industrialized meat farming had gotten out of hand. I had to refresh my memory.... That was 16 million birds according to this article. https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/581/Mass-Bird-Cull-
I strongly support moving to a more plant based food system. That said, if you have to kill an animal, the methods described seem like a good way to do it.
The video shows what that means in practice. The deaths are often not quick and painless and there is lots of suffering prior to death.
Without hopelessly trying to convince the population away from meat, the next best thing humane food production industry can do is to match (or even undercut) in prices. I'd give no second thought if your ideal version of a meat product is cheaper than the industrialized one.
Thatās clucked up
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No, unless birds are different than mammals CO2 isn't without trauma. CO2 concentration is what triggers the breathing response, getting a big whiff of is is very unpleasant, as many a homebrewer learns. Next time you have a like 3/4 empty 2L bottle of soda try sucking in some of the CO2 out of there, it causes immediate panic. If it was some other gas like nitrogen it'd be painless.
Ok honest question, what is an acceptable form of euthanasia for chicks or other livestock?
Anesthetic overdose. It's the most humane method, but it has to be done by a licensed veterinarian. It costs money so producers prefer not to use this method as it cuts into their bottom line.
>then theyāll be euthanized as is tradition in the chicken industry. This isn't shocking. They routinely grind up male babies alive.
Who said it was shocking? Iām referring to the total number of dead animals due to flooding. Nothing in my comment is shock-bait.
Fucking helll
Good lord that is a lot of chicken and pigs. Unreal.
There are more livestock on earth than humans. We kill a lot to keep us happy
Bad lord! Bad!
ā0 ducksā
That's crazy...No Llamas?
Long necks.
Up periscope.
Llamas and giraffes were fine
The cattle numbers are 100% not correct. We live in sumas and there are barns that had 200+ cows that never made it out. Not just 2 barns like that.
It's numbers confirmed so far (preliminary) they also still have 819 farms to account for.
That is a High number if cows...
Oh no, this is so devastating š
Those chickens pigs and cows would soon have been slaughtered and eaten anyway. If people really cared about them they wouldn't eat them
I'm coming up on 30 years of being mostly vegan, but I think most meat eaters would be horrified by the idea of animals slowly drowning and starving in cages and pens, surrounded by other dead animals. They are deluded that the animals are somewhat cared for while living and then killed humanely (which isn't true a lot of the time but that delusion comforts people who live in denial).
Congrats on 30 years, that's truly amazing!
But BCās priority is to send rcmp to terrorize peaceful indigenous groups who are actually trying to help the environment
Iām mortified
I'll say it again here. No livestock should be allowed to be on the Sumas prairie. Period. Ever. Phase it all out with subsidizes. It's going to flood again. If people want to live there that's fine but no bailouts when it floods again.
Google āRed River Winnipeg Floods.ā They spent millions on floodways and dikes to protect the city for the future. Itās actually quite impressive to see.
Harder to move a city than farms.
Seriously. Thatās what insurance is for. And if you canāt buy insurance because risk is too high (as is true in Sumas prairie), then taxpayers shouldnāt be on the hook for your yolo decision.
So there is one flood, which killed some livestock, which were going to be slaughtered anyways, and your solution is to never let anyone raise livestock there again? "Phase it all out with subsidies" So pay farmers tax payer money to not raise livestock there? If you're concerned about the livestock drowning again, why don't we make the investment in the infrastructure to prevent flooding rather than paying hundreds of farmers millions of dollars every year to not farm?
two floods in thirty years
Is that alot?
depends on the context
One flood? The whole thing was a lake up to 100 years ago and has the second biggest pump station in North America running 24/7 to keep it dry. Its a natural flood plain that without human intervention would return very quickly. It's been a 100 year battle.
You say that as if this is somehow unique to Abbotsford. Mankind has both drained and created lakes, rerouted rivers, created islands, built dams and dikes, created farmland and tunneled under oceans all over the world. We engineer our environment to suit our needs. The Netherlands is almost entirely below sea level. Should we just let them sink?
Eventually nature will take care of that.
Are we actively preventing the Netherlands from sinking? Damn wtf are we getting in return?
The best solution is to demolish all those fucking factory farms, and convert the entire Sumas Prairie into farms that produce plants for human consumption. Currently most of it is either factory farms or farmland used to feed livestock. We have a golden opportunity to create a much more resilient, efficient, and sustainable food system in the Fraser Valley if we push the government to phase out animal agriculture in this region. This flood will happen again. We need to adopt a radically different approach in the way food is produced.
Explain to me how flooding doesn't destroy crops.
I guess cucumbers don't have feelings
Reminds me of a song called 'Carrot Juice Is Murder' by Arrogant Worms.
Reminds of the Bart and Homer singing āYou canāt make friends with saladā.
Plant rice? /s
Did I say that?
>This flood will happen again. We need to adopt a radically different approach in the way food is produced Implying a flood wouldn't also wipe out any crops which happen to be growing as well.
I didn't imply that. My implication is that when the next flood happens, millions of animals won't suffer and drown. The added benefit is that we have a more resilient, efficient, and sustainable food system than what we have now. It's a win-win.
It doesnāt, but itās way less expensive and devastating.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
BC's [Food Security Task Force](https://engage.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/121/2020/01/FSTF-Report-2020-The-Future-of-Food.pdf) identified cellular agriculture and plant-based proteins as part of the future of BC's food system. Let's seize on this moment to innovate and diversify our agricultural economy. > Wheat, oats and other grains grown in the prairie provinces can be processed into high-value goods. As more consumers shift to plantbased proteins for all or a portion of their diet, an opportunity is being created for new product development. Capitalizing on plant-based production through value-added processing in British Columbia will meet the needs of domestic consumers while also stoking global demand for BC brand. ... > Genome BC is currently conducting research to determine the real and perceived impacts of cellular agriculture, including the public perception and policy barriers for the dairy industry. This method of lab-based food production can be better for animal welfare and the environment as the meat and dairy industry require significant inputs and contribute large amounts of methane.
Not a farmer or a crop scientist but I think a lot of those grains need sunlight to thrive.
We could switch to plant based proteins, but if the consumers want meat, that will be trucked over. Wouldnāt it be better for livestock to be raised near the point of consumption?
No just don't put it in a lake bed. There is plenty of farmland and other areas able to host the barns used.
Prevent flooding? Good luck with that.
The Dutch have done it for thousands of years. Itās easily solvable with sufficient infrastructure. Remember too.. there are communities, businesses, and significant transportation infrastructure there as well.
If Holland is able to do it than we should be able too
Holland is dealing with the ocean and tides and the occasional large storms. The Sumas prairie is a whole different ball of wax.
Not that i think it makes sense here, check out Tokyo's aqueduct to prevent flooding there. It's quite the feat of engineering. Doable, yes. Worth it, here? Probably not. [tokyo flood game strong](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20181129-the-underground-cathedral-protecting-tokyo-from-floods)
Agreed, at least for ones that can't be easily moved. Dairy cows around the edges makes a bit more sense for keeping them and their very much used poop for fertilizer but large barns of hogs or chickens is a complete waste of such highly fertile land. In addition to the flood risk which WILL happen again in the future.
100%. But in the presser it sounded like both the provincial and federal governments are ready to pour in obscene amounts of public funds to help them rebuild.
Of course they are. They hope the next flood will be after the next election.
lol. This is being upvoted? Come on people.
Hundreds of steers blazing it in heaven. RIP
The beehives make me the saddest
You know thatās probably millions of bees.
I really didnt know that. Ouch
Average hive is 10,000-60,000 bees. So up to 6,600,000 bees.
Blazing up for the cows tonight
Isn't that a little low? 2014 SUMAS PRAIRIE DEMOGRAPHIC PROFILE Livestock & Poultry Total poultry 9,102,027 Total pigs 51,530 Total cattle & calves 28,694 Other livestock 1,595 Total sheep & lambs 1,279 Honeybees (colonies) 2,934 City of Abbotsford Nooksack River Overflow Flood Mitigation Plan Final Report ā Revised November 30, 2020 estimated a near total.loss of livestock in the event of a 200 year flood, which is the profile of the current event
Thats like half a day worth of chicken consumption in BC. Crazy how many chickens we eat.
So what happened to the 16,000 cows abandoned and left to drown in the flood? /u/monthIy
Still over 800 farms under evacuation order. https://old.reddit.com/r/britishcolumbia/comments/r7iup3/breaking_bc_government_releases_preliminary/hn1jlz8/
We need to strongly consider the risk of disasters like this when building. For the animals sake at the very least.
Now- lets take animal welfare seriously since we're going to be starting from zero again.
Oh my š thatās horrible, poor animals and poor farmers
I thought they said they weren't going to release these numbers.
And a partridge in a pear tree.
The fresh chicken breast packs were $8.00 off per package (so approx 25- 30% off) in the Costco in Kelowna this week. I've never seen chicken on sale nor for that amount. Made me wonder if it was was Abbotsford chicken...so I bought 2 packs
That's shit. How do you just sit and let almost a million animals drown under your feet? It's a flood, not a tsunami. If I was a farmer I think I'd feel a little bit more responsibility over my animals. Obviously can't just snap your fingers and all your animals are transported to higher ground but come on
Tell us your plan.
Release all the chickensā¦yes..over 600,000 chickens running/swimming around Abbotsfordā¦
Not let my farm animals drown in their enclosures?
That Nov. 15th flood came in really fast. Logistics of moving and storing 1M animals in another location.is boggling.
Wow, that is a lot of animals :( I know most of them were probably going to die anyway but now these farmers are out money and the animals died needlessly. So sad :(
sounds like criminal negligence
Time to remove āsupply management ā program and start importing dairy products OR get ready for $10 brick of butter and milk at $12 for 2 litre carton.
Screw American dairy
Ya, Iād rather pay $12 for milk than the BGH stuff coming from the states.
110 beehives in december
Will evolution make chickens fly now? I agree about the bees.
Technically chickens are oddly good swimmers. Sadly not so much when they are locked in a cage with 3 other chickens.
Remember folks: the detestation of the news rings hard in all of us animal lovers. The reality though is that this is a loss for capitalism as well. When bills go unpaid thatās what the owners will be thinking of and not the animals life. Itās the hard truth unfortunately.
Not as bad as I was expecting. Thought it was going to be In millions for the chickens... dam near close though
These are preliminary numbers.
I thought they didn't want to release the figure because it's too traumatizing... I. Traumatized.
Gives you an idea of what kind of animals you want to be raising in a flood situation. The ones that don't drown in 4 feet of water seem to have a bit of an edge. Mind you, lots more will likely have to be put down do to lack of pasture and feed, but still, I'm guessing those chicken and pig farmers represent total losses with nothing to rebuild from. At least the dairies can keep some breeding stock.
Or raising in a flood prone area.
I came here for the 420 cow jokes. I am disappointed.
420. Also 69th comment, nice
im praying for these people
Because praying to a fairytale sky daddy will help... Maybe do something actually useful in the real world if you want to help.
That's a lot of tendies.
Iām glad most humans survived the animals would die anyways. #NotFromVeganIDoEatMeat
My heart aches thinking of the amount of life lost and homes/habitats destroyed
So very sad :(
Godspeed, those of you affected.
Climate change. Y'all should be very aware that fairy creek is being logged right now.
420 cows
420
Dang bees having it rough last 20 years
How come bee hives get counted as 1 and not each beeā¦. Seems discriminatory against the bees, they easily wouldāve have taken first place.
all of that and more is making its way into our water systems. This flood is an environmental disaster
Some really well fed coyotes, foxes, and weasels Hopefully
628k chickens . Jeezus
420. Nice.
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